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Transcript

The Hitcher (1986) · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  I don't need gas. What do you want?
• 0:17
  What's so funny? That's what the other guy said.
• 0:22
  Who's he on the guy? The guy who was driving that car back there.
• 0:27
  The guy who picked me up before you did.
• 0:29
  Was that him in the car? I'm sure I was. Couldn't have walked very far.
• 0:34
  Why is that? Because I cut off his legs and his arms.
• 0:41
  And his head. And I'm going to do the same to you.
• 0:45
  You're terrible at the countdowns. You know that, right? You are literally the worst.
• 0:49
  I say, see, so what we have to do, people here, they had it right.
• 0:54
  We got to count down together, three, two, one. It's because I don't know when
• 0:57
  you're going to say it. I'm like two. One. Two.
• 1:01
  And then I say one. And then five minutes later, you say one.
• 1:04
  You don't do it in proper sync each time. So it's random every time.
• 1:08
  So I'm literally trying to guess what you're going to say and when you're going to say it. Two.
• 1:13
  I mean, you can't. Yeah, right. It takes you 40 minutes to catch up.
• 1:17
  We should be doing this another way anyway, and we will be soon.
• 1:20
  Why? Because Skype's closing. Oh, my God. All right. Well, we do.
• 1:27
  I don't know. No one else is using it.
• 1:30
  We're probably the only assholes to use this shit. Yeah, they'll probably send
• 1:33
  us a Christmas card and everything. Yeah.
• 1:36
  Their last customers. Last man standing.
• 1:42
  Yeah, we're here to talk. The 1986,
• 1:45
  The Hitcher. I've never seen this in a theater multiple times as a kid.
• 1:50
  Absolutely enjoy it. Never. You know, it's one of those films that...
• 1:55
  I never got into Ruckhawr until I saw The Hitcher. And then I saw,
• 1:59
  you know, watch Blade Runner again.
• 2:02
  I went to see Lady Hawk and Oshman's Weekend.
• 2:06
  All of his movies he's done before this. Because The Hitcher's the one that put him on the map for me.
• 2:12
  And I never looked back. This film was directed by a man called Robert Harmon.
• 2:16
  He's done all right for himself.
• 2:18
  He's a gunfire. He's a highwayman, which is pretty good. Kind of like a retelling of this.
• 2:23
  But not. You guys should check it out. Know Where to Run with Van Damme.
• 2:28
  But he's worked closely a lot in years and years with Tom Selleck.
• 2:34
  He did all the Jesse Stone stuff and a lot of Blue Bloods, that TV show that
• 2:37
  I think Tom Selleck's in.
• 2:40
  And it's also written by a guy I really like. This is written by Eric Redd,
• 2:43
  who went on to write Blue Steel, Near Dark, Body Parts, Bad Moon.
• 2:50
  He also directed Bad Moon and Body Parts, two films I actually really enjoy.
• 2:55
  Another career I'm surprised never really took off. But if you like Eric Redd,
• 2:59
  those titles are pretty decent. We did Near Dark. Yeah, that's right.
• 3:03
  Overrated. But, you know, it is what it is.
• 3:07
  And then you've got Mark Isham, who does the composing.
• 3:10
  I bring that up because the score in this is really haunting.
• 3:13
  I really enjoy the score in this.
• 3:16
  When the score becomes kind of a character. And I'm also like the score gives
• 3:20
  the desert, you know, gives it a persona.
• 3:23
  Gives the desert more of a persona. And I really like the score here.
• 3:27
  And then we got John Seale, the director of photography.
• 3:30
  Photography in this is top-notch. It's beautiful.
• 3:34
  John Seale is known for movies like Perfect Storm, Talented Mr.
• 3:37
  Ripley, The Firm, Dead Poets, Mad Max, Fury Road, Rain Man, Witness.
• 3:42
  I mean, the guy knows how to point a camera. Yes.
• 3:46
  With my first experience of this, it was when I was a kid. Surprise, surprise.
• 3:51
  I got it out on video. and I remember thinking it was great and genuinely scary.
• 3:59
  Especially the opening sequences yeah the
• 4:02
  opening sequence is the best part it it
• 4:06
  has its ups and downs and i think that obviously that's
• 4:09
  deliberate it's like a beating heart and
• 4:12
  then it gets a little more faster and faster as we get more in
• 4:15
  the climax but i would
• 4:18
  say that the the opening sequences are
• 4:22
  maybe too good because they
• 4:25
  sort of you know you know usually
• 4:28
  you know traditionally a story be it
• 4:31
  a film or whatever it's meant to get better and better as
• 4:34
  it goes along but it's almost like you know and i'm not saying i'm not saying
• 4:38
  that what we do get you know after it is not good it's pretty excellent but
• 4:44
  with it being such a strong opening it does sort of hurt the film in some way
• 4:49
  and that it can't quite live up to it.
• 4:52
  I just agree with that. I think if a film brings you in right away and it stays
• 4:58
  its course, and this is what this film does.
• 5:01
  You're right, the beginning is the best part but the rest of the film holds its own. No, it does.
• 5:06
  You don't judge a band based on, yeah, they have one great album but then the
• 5:11
  rest of the albums are pretty solid but it doesn't mean you hate the band.
• 5:16
  It's the same kind of concept you know,
• 5:20
  all movies always have one scene that stick out always it might be something
• 5:25
  different a lot of people are going to say it's the Jennifer you know the Jennifer
• 5:28
  Lee horrific scene with the truck.
• 5:32
  That could be or the French Frides is the big one with the fingers,
• 5:36
  so but so I think the film
• 5:39
  does pepper in quite a few elements what we
• 5:41
  did get beginning but nothing is as strong as
• 5:44
  the beginning yes the beginning is if you want to bring somebody
• 5:47
  in it's right up there with the stranger calls when have
• 5:51
  you checked the children that was the beginning of that one and the
• 5:53
  rest of the film was great but it was nothing like the beginning well it's up
• 5:56
  there with Scream as well I would say for such a strong opening don't get me
• 6:00
  wrong I'm a big fan of strong openings but I just think that while the rest
• 6:05
  of it is indeed very very good it's just you know that very strong opening,
• 6:12
  isn't beating but we'll still get some very good stuff Well,
• 6:16
  in this one, we got a boy who speaks very good stuff.
• 6:18
  We got a boy, Rucker Hauer, God rest his soul.
• 6:21
  Just an underrated actor. He plays John Ryder, C.
• 6:25
  Thomas Howell, Jim Halsey, Jennifer Gilliam Nash, Jeffrey Dunham,
• 6:29
  who I like to see as Captain Estridge.
• 6:31
  Billy Greenbush, we've talked up before with Critters as the trooper.
• 6:36
  And then a bunch of, you know, all the cops in this are all characters.
• 6:40
  I was going to say, Armin. And they're all nice to see. Yeah,
• 6:43
  Armin Shimmerman, who would later go on to play the Ferengi Quark in Star Trek Deep Space Nine.
• 6:51
  He's one of the cops towards the end, you know, one of the detectives interviewing Jim.
• 6:56
  Yeah, so you got, yeah, you get a lot of different characters,
• 6:59
  whether they're in the middle of their prom, but kind of, I think most of these
• 7:03
  actors, they're starting out in the 80s, but good cast.
• 7:06
  Yeah. Good well-rounded cast, and a small cast, which I always like to see.
• 7:09
  Now, the opening is always, you see, we were introduced to Jim there,
• 7:14
  and he's obviously falling asleep.
• 7:15
  I've done a trip like this from between Dallas to El Paso, and it's all desert.
• 7:20
  And man there's the hotel here and there and there's one there's one sign that says,
• 7:25
  stop here if if you're planning on going to el paso
• 7:28
  there's no more stops no more gas stations you
• 7:32
  need to stop spend the night and then continue your drive because if your car
• 7:36
  breaks down in the middle of this kind of you know in this kind of environment
• 7:40
  you're fucked yeah so that's it's why i can relate to what our boy's going through
• 7:46
  but he's very tired he's drinking coffee listen to his radio as best he can.
• 7:50
  And I like the intro where you see this Volkswagen bug go past him and drive ahead. Yep.
• 7:57
  And then moments later, he passes the bug.
• 8:01
  Well, he picks up our boy, Halsey. No, sorry, Ryder.
• 8:05
  His own Ryder, yep. He passes the bug that Ryder just came from.
• 8:11
  Rucker Hauer is so good in this. I mean, he plays Villainous.
• 8:17
  He plays Bill Ennis so great.
• 8:19
  And how he plays it is just like Blade Runner.
• 8:23
  And I still have this argument. I personally, and I'll probably get a lot of
• 8:26
  heat for this, I actually don't think he's the Billen of Blade Runner.
• 8:30
  Well, it's a fair argument, and I mean, I would sort of tend to agree with that,
• 8:33
  you know, because it's more, I think, Blade Runner is, a lot of it is certainly
• 8:39
  about human rights, or indeed, you know, well, the android rights, you know?
• 8:45
  Yeah, not to dive into that one, but this one, he kind of takes that same persona.
• 8:50
  He's very, he doesn't yell a lot. He's very, you know, very quiet,
• 8:55
  very reserved, but he's intense by his eyes and the way he says something.
• 9:00
  There's a menacing tone to him.
• 9:03
  And it's the same thing with how he played, God, his name's in Blade Runner.
• 9:10
  Oh, yes. The replicant. Barry, Roy Barry. Roy Barry, that's it.
• 9:14
  And this whole dialogue is very fun because all he's asking him is, where do you want to go?
• 9:20
  But he's not answering any of his questions. Yeah.
• 9:25
  And he finally says, what do you want? You know, panicking. And he starts laughing.
• 9:30
  And he was what's so funny best line of the film but
• 9:34
  i remember quoting this when i was a kid so many times when he
• 9:37
  goes that's what the other guy said and he goes the other guy yeah the other
• 9:40
  guy that was driving that car back there but he couldn't walk very far what
• 9:45
  what do you mean because i cut off his legs and his arms and his head and i'm
• 9:52
  going to do the same thing to you Yeah, it's very, I mean,
• 9:56
  genuinely very sinister and, you know, quite terrifying, actually.
• 10:02
  You know, especially if you're putting yourself in the position of Jim,
• 10:06
  you know, he's just a young kid. What, he's about 18 here or something.
• 10:11
  And, yeah, I mean, basically, John Ryder is holding all the cards here and he's letting him know.
• 10:18
  And he's basically, you know, yeah, he's scaring the shit out of him. So yes.
• 10:24
  You know you're in trouble when you're trying to make a conversation with the
• 10:27
  guy you picked up, and he's saying... I've got to cut you up.
• 10:29
  You ever know what happens when you puncture an eyeball? Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:35
  You ever wonder how much blood comes out of a man's neck when you cut it? Yep.
• 10:40
  And then there's a scene as well. I mean, there's other wee things where he's like, you know,
• 10:44
  whenever they're passing the
• 10:45
  Volkswagen Beetle, and he grabs his leg and puts it on the accelerator,
• 10:51
  because you and then you sort of know that yeah there's something up and just
• 10:54
  even the way that the volkswagen is parked and stuff you know off the road you
• 10:58
  sort of know that yeah something's bad.
• 11:02
  Yeah he's making him speed it up yes he doesn't want him to stop for whatever reason,
• 11:07
  there's a couple of conveniences there's the construction site scene where they're
• 11:13
  passing that construction site and he puts the swiss blade between his legs
• 11:16
  yeah and he says you say one fucking word,
• 11:20
  castrates him pretty much. Yes.
• 11:22
  And Halsey's trying to, you know, move his head to kind of show the construction
• 11:27
  guy, this guy's fucking nuts.
• 11:29
  But, Ryder plays it off so casually.
• 11:33
  Yeah. And so, almost playfully?
• 11:36
  Well, it's whenever the construction guy thinks that the two of them are gay
• 11:40
  lovers, and he sort of gives him a funny look, and then waves him like,
• 11:44
  goes, okay, we'll get out of here.
• 11:45
  And then, John Ryder, Rooker Har, blows him a kiss so he's sort of mocking the
• 11:51
  whole general situation and he's taking it very lightly even though he's got
• 11:55
  basically a very sharp knife to this young lad's balls,
• 12:01
  and yeah it is generally quite a sinister performance overall.
• 12:11
  My probably favorite shot of the film was coming up right here when he finally
• 12:16
  jettisons out of the car with the automatic car door. Yes.
• 12:19
  I know what one you're going to say, and I love it too.
• 12:22
  Yeah, so he chucks him out of the car. He gets away. He's like,
• 12:25
  yeah, fuck you, fuck you, and he drives away.
• 12:28
  And the sun's rising, and the rain stopped, and all you see from the distance
• 12:35
  is him trying to get his, trying to get him back on his feet because he just got kicked out of a car.
• 12:41
  And you'll see Ryder, as he slowly gets up, the camera zooms in on him getting
• 12:46
  up and it kind of goes up with him.
• 12:49
  Well, that actually wasn't the one I was thinking of.
• 12:52
  But that shot, I think, is just a wonderful shot.
• 12:55
  It's definitely one of the best ones in the film. What's all you thinking of in that part?
• 12:59
  Well, basically, shortly after this, Jim's still sort of celebrating and he's
• 13:03
  on a high after getting away from this madman.
• 13:05
  And there is a family pulls in front of him, and because he's in such good form,
• 13:10
  he's sort of waving at the kids and stuff.
• 13:12
  And then the teddy bear thing is moved to the side, and it's John Ryder.
• 13:18
  You know, and that's really fucking creepy.
• 13:21
  Yeah, no, it's a good shot.
• 13:23
  But again, it's one of those things, well, they're not going to kill a family. Well, he does.
• 13:28
  But he does. Yeah. This is where they say.
• 13:33
  They're not pulling any punches. At first, when you first meet him,
• 13:37
  yeah, he hasn't done anything really.
• 13:38
  We don't know that he's really killing anybody in that BW. We don't know if
• 13:42
  he's just toying with them or he's just a fucking lunatic.
• 13:44
  If he's hitting on them, we don't know what his MO is at this point.
• 13:48
  But once Halsey tries to get to that family, before almost getting right off
• 13:53
  the road by a truck, he finally sees the Volkswagen pulled over. And what's inside?
• 14:00
  And he goes to it. And he don't see anything. Don't need to.
• 14:02
  Well shot, we don't need to see but he starts throwing out knowing he slaughtered
• 14:08
  the entire family, killing the children,
• 14:10
  I would say as well I gotta admit, you must do it pretty quick well yes,
• 14:15
  there are conveniences of course and there's quite a few.
• 14:18
  Overall, but I would say as well this film was, like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre,
• 14:23
  was heavily criticized at the time for being too violent and gory,
• 14:27
  but actually if the people who were doing the criticizing had
• 14:31
  actually watched it properly and paid attention there is
• 14:34
  actually very little gore and violence shown
• 14:37
  on screen here it's all about suggestion you know
• 14:40
  or cutting away you know at the last moment and
• 14:43
  your imagination filling in the blanks so just what you're saying there about
• 14:47
  that you don't see the family you know massacred this is a running theme throughout
• 14:51
  here even later on when nice gets pulled in half you don't see it you see the
• 14:56
  the sort of lead up to it but you don't actually see her being ripped in half
• 15:00
  so there's actually very it's actually,
• 15:03
  quite toned down in terms of screen violence and gore.
• 15:07
  And very cleverly handled what's great about it is the way it's directed and
• 15:13
  the way it's shot and that's why it brought up Robert Harmon and John Seale
• 15:17
  in the beginning of the cover because even though we don't see the family get
• 15:23
  it we don't see Jennifer Jason Gage.
• 15:25
  It's like when violence movies gets ripped on It bothers me a bit because once
• 15:30
  you rip, once you see it, you just go, eww, and you go away.
• 15:33
  That's it. Yeah. You move on.
• 15:35
  But when you have it embedded in your brain. Exactly. Because it's building
• 15:38
  up and you can't get that image out of your head, you can show it to somebody.
• 15:43
  It'll last for a second. You'll go, eww, and then walk away.
• 15:46
  But if you embed it in your brain, what he's about to do to this girl or to
• 15:49
  this family, it's like reading a novel.
• 15:52
  It's, quite frankly, it could be more damaging. A hundred percent.
• 15:56
  Than actually seeing it. That's exactly true, and that's exactly,
• 15:59
  you know, these guys knew what they were doing, and this is a very well-directed
• 16:02
  film, especially with these aspects of it, you know what I mean?
• 16:06
  What your mind fills in, you know, the blanks, whenever it does that,
• 16:10
  it is much more disturbing than anything you can be showing on screen,
• 16:15
  and that's the real part of it.
• 16:16
  And these guys knew that Maybe there was budgetary constraints as well Which
• 16:20
  inadvertently helped But yeah, the power of suggestion Is always much more powerful
• 16:26
  Than, I don't know A gore fest, let's just say,
• 16:31
  The scene where he finally gets to a garage and he runs out of the car and he
• 16:36
  goes to his garage to make a call. It's obviously an abandoned garage at this point. Yeah.
• 16:40
  But he does see a payphone. He tries to use it and it doesn't work.
• 16:43
  And this is where Ryder comes in. Yes.
• 16:45
  And this is the, and then all he does is give him the keys to his car. Mm-hmm.
• 16:51
  And he could have killed him right there. He could have taken the keys and left
• 16:55
  him there to die. He could have done anything he wanted.
• 16:57
  But for some reason, he gives him the keys. But this is where I remember going,
• 17:04
  okay, this is what he's doing.
• 17:06
  He's doing a Mr. Glass. Yeah, he's playing with him.
• 17:10
  Yeah, he needs to find his nemesis.
• 17:15
  And that's, you know, Mr. Glass killed all these people to find his nemesis.
• 17:19
  Well, he found Bruce Willis through all this rubble. So this is his Bruce Willis.
• 17:24
  This is the only one to actually defeat him. I mean, there are several ways.
• 17:31
  He wants him to kill him I figured that out pretty quickly and we'll see that
• 17:37
  in a diner hotel especially when he puts the quarters in his face, the pennies in his eyes.
• 17:44
  Watching this sorry go ahead no you're alright.
• 17:48
  Well watching this again for the podcast, I've watched it as an adult and,
• 17:53
  it still holds its power after all these
• 17:56
  years since first watching it as a kid but looking at it this time the whole
• 18:01
  weird relationship between John Ryder and Jim Halsey can be read in actually
• 18:06
  multiple ways is John Ryder trying to turn him into a killer is it some sort of fetish.
• 18:14
  There's arguably a lot of gay subtext here which has been talked about over
• 18:18
  the years but you know there's multiple ways you can read this and I think that
• 18:23
  it's great and again another very clever decision by the filmmakers to not,
• 18:29
  explain it and leave it up to the audience's imagination
• 18:33
  so that like many years later you're talking
• 18:36
  there 40 years since this was first released there's people
• 18:39
  like ourselves still discussing it and what it's actually what is
• 18:41
  actually going on and that's just such a very very clever move by the filmmakers
• 18:45
  yeah but i do think whether he's a homosexual writer or not i don't think the
• 18:53
  hazy character is at all i think he is um i do think after watching it with
• 18:58
  more of adult's eyes, I guess you can say,
• 19:00
  I was a kid when I saw it the first time, it would be more,
• 19:04
  I would say he is a homosexual, and I do think the character is dealing with that.
• 19:09
  I think he's a sociopath at the same time. I think he's dealing with it.
• 19:14
  But I do think he's just using him to have him kill him.
• 19:20
  Another leading of it? I do think that's what I think is going on.
• 19:24
  Possibly, yeah. I think the Jim Halsey character is just an innocent bystander at this point.
• 19:30
  You'll notice it at the end too we'll get to it when he goes in for a kiss and
• 19:36
  he spits on him instead he kind of he licks his spit it's like oh come on rocker
• 19:42
  what are you doing man yeah but.
• 19:47
  Sorry I would just like to say there is another way I was thinking it could
• 19:51
  be read as well again it's open to the interpretation but it could be read that
• 19:55
  this whole film is possibly about Jim Halsey's repressed homosexuality and if you, I mean,
• 20:03
  not so much to do with the homosexuality thing,
• 20:06
  but you know, with his character arc he goes from the start of the film being
• 20:12
  basically a bit of a pussy and
• 20:13
  a card by the end of it, his character has become very dark and sinister,
• 20:19
  almost but not quite, like John Ryder himself, and maybe that's what John Ryder
• 20:25
  wanted all along you know what I mean, to turn him into,
• 20:29
  No, I mean, that's a fair point, but I'm going to tell you right now,
• 20:32
  from the beginning, this kid always had balls.
• 20:35
  I'll tell you that right now. He confronted him. He says he was scared,
• 20:39
  but he did what he had to do to get him out of there.
• 20:41
  Yeah. And since then, he's the one that tried to call the police.
• 20:45
  He's also the one who's tried to stop the family from getting killed,
• 20:48
  almost killing himself by getting by the truck to do so.
• 20:51
  He's always been the one trying to track this guy down or to stop whatever he's from doing.
• 20:58
  So I, and yeah, he does get, his character does get darker and dark. He's very shy.
• 21:04
  He's very reserved. the character even during
• 21:07
  trouble he's he cries him quite a bit so yeah he does become more of a badass
• 21:13
  I guess you can say at the end but I don't think there's any homosexual tension
• 21:17
  of his character I don't think there's any of that I just think he's a well written character who,
• 21:25
  finally he's had enough.
• 21:29
  He's tired of being bullied and he's had enough and
• 21:32
  that's what drives him that I don't think there's the writer character
• 21:35
  i'll give you i'll give you that the homosexual tones
• 21:38
  with him or oh but i wouldn't say
• 21:41
  that with the halsey character at all well i mean like i say
• 21:43
  you know what i find great about it is that it's
• 21:46
  open to so much interpretation and it's very clever writing and direction so
• 21:51
  maybe he wasn't you know a complete pussy at the start jim but certainly his
• 21:56
  character arc takes him to become a much more darker character with a with almost
• 22:02
  with a very sinister edge not quite,
• 22:05
  but almost as sinister as John Ryder's.
• 22:08
  By the way, I know someone, well, over the years I've known someone called John
• 22:12
  Ryder, and I can't even talk to the guy without thinking of this film. So there you go.
• 22:19
  What the film did need is,
• 22:23
  timestamps and more people. And what I mean by that is there's a lot of scenes.
• 22:28
  We mentioned earlier where he sees the family in the car, they die.
• 22:33
  And then moments later, he sees the car. Well, it takes a little long time to kill all these people.
• 22:38
  Same thing with the VW driver in the beginning. Yeah. If he cut off his legs
• 22:42
  and arms, his head, he would be covered in blood and he wouldn't be hitchhiking
• 22:46
  three minutes down from the world. Then he picks him up.
• 22:49
  So there's timestamps. I do have a problem with, He's at the diner, calls the cops.
• 22:54
  He's in jail. Is this 24 hours later? You know what I mean?
• 22:57
  We needed... Yeah, maybe, I mean... Even if they give us two hours,
• 23:02
  three hours, is this taking place in one day or two days?
• 23:05
  Yeah. You know, that's... I kind of wouldn't like that. John Ryder does become
• 23:09
  almost a supernatural type character or at least a character with supernatural powers at times.
• 23:15
  You know, even at the end... Yeah, the helicopter scene does that.
• 23:18
  The helicopter scene does that for me.
• 23:20
  Yeah, yeah. And that does sort of ruin the groundedness of it,
• 23:25
  just a little bit, like, you know, nothing major.
• 23:28
  You know, it's still entertaining. But whenever it sort of turns a bit into
• 23:31
  the Dukes of Hazzard later on, you know, with the helicopter and stuff,
• 23:33
  it does lose that little bit of, you know, grounded in reality.
• 23:37
  But I'm still enjoying it.
• 23:39
  It's kind of like Demons. They probably had budget left over.
• 23:42
  Hey, let's blow up a helicopter.
• 23:44
  What does that have to do with the movie theater? Let's do it.
• 23:46
  All right, sounds good. Yeah, why not? Yeah, that's it.
• 23:49
  Exactly. but I mean I think another interpretation
• 23:53
  of how it went this route which would have been great would have
• 23:56
  been if John Ryder was never
• 23:59
  caught by the police and then it's left
• 24:02
  open to interpretation whether Jim Halsey
• 24:05
  was responsible for it all and he was like it had some sort of breakdown he
• 24:10
  was mentally ill or whatever and he had actually done it all but believed you
• 24:14
  know and John Ryder actually represented his darker side but obviously it is
• 24:20
  established that John Ryder is a real living person you know especially when he gets arrested.
• 24:24
  You know I like the good versus evil I like that there's there's a there's lots
• 24:28
  of nuances here you know what I mean I like I like the physical presence yeah of him being here.
• 24:36
  Because we wouldn't get the outcome we did then. Yeah. And I like the outcome.
• 24:39
  I like how the film does end.
• 24:41
  It's muddled when it comes to how they get them and all, but it's still pretty cool. I do like Nash.
• 24:46
  I do like Jennifer Jason Leigh. She's okay. Let's see her. Yeah.
• 24:49
  I like her. She's... Yep. You need a woman in here. That's it.
• 24:53
  Yeah. That is it. You needed a woman.
• 24:55
  No, that's it. That's what she's there for. And then what happens to her is horrific.
• 25:00
  Yeah. And putting a woman in that is horrific in your mind.
• 25:05
  Yeah. So that's what she's there for.
• 25:08
  But I mean, I like her as an actress.
• 25:11
  I think she's great in The Hateful Eight, as Daisy Dahmerhue,
• 25:14
  you know, with Kurt Russell and stuff.
• 25:16
  But she hasn't that much to do, apart from getting ripped in half.
• 25:19
  But she's all right. She's a little bit annoying.
• 25:22
  And yeah, but I mean, yeah.
• 25:25
  Well, you had to have her. Whether you think it's a plot comedians or not,
• 25:30
  you had to have her because of the fact that she needed to get to see you needed to be.
• 25:34
  And we're stuck in A here so she's the B she has to get him off that bus get
• 25:41
  him protected from the cop you know she's got to be there to get him away from
• 25:45
  these cops we're about to kill him I think it is very tense whenever.
• 25:49
  The cops are essentially looking at him and they believe he's done it you know
• 25:52
  Jim I think that's all and they say you just spit you just spit on my shoe yeah that's a great scene,
• 26:00
  clean it up And then she takes the gun fires in the air.
• 26:05
  Yes. And they all know each other. She knows the cops, which is still a small town.
• 26:08
  Yeah, there's 20, 25 miles apart from each other, but they all know each other.
• 26:12
  Yeah. It's a desolate desert.
• 26:14
  And so everyone seems to know everybody.
• 26:18
  And so that's what she's there for, quite frankly. Yeah.
• 26:24
  It takes no, you know, there's no prisoners taken here in terms of,
• 26:27
  you know, the victims here, you know, especially with the cops.
• 26:31
  It's just like they're fucking blasted Know what I mean,
• 26:34
  I do like when we talked about this with, oh, what film was it?
• 26:40
  I can't remember now. What we were talking about. We were talking about the
• 26:44
  blob. We were talking about the blob. Yeah.
• 26:47
  Kevin Dillon doing jumps on his motorbike. Yeah. Yeah. With the really great looking mullet.
• 26:55
  When the cops get him, they finally catch him. Yes.
• 27:00
  And he's being interviewed. He's telling them, it's a driveway.
• 27:04
  I'm driving this guy's car from Chicago to California.
• 27:07
  I fly back to Chicago, call my brother, call the guy. Here's his numbers.
• 27:12
  Yeah. And they're giving him a hard time, but they're being professional.
• 27:15
  They're not being this, you know, badass cops. I like this.
• 27:18
  And then he goes, put him in the fucking cell, get him on my site.
• 27:22
  And the head guy goes, that kid, that kid, that kid, he was a,
• 27:28
  the cop says, that kid isn't a killer. Any fool can see that. Yeah.
• 27:31
  Yeah. So they know this kid didn't do it. And I like that already.
• 27:35
  But again, that's all thrown away when he wakes up in the cell.
• 27:40
  And Ryder has pretty much massacred them all. Well, he's a Terminator, essentially.
• 27:44
  And in fact, it did remind me of the scene in the Terminator,
• 27:47
  although you don't see it here, where Arnie massacres the entire station.
• 27:51
  Yeah, this is Rooker Howard, man.
• 27:54
  It's fucking awesome, man.
• 27:57
  Yeah, so he decides he'd kidnap two cops at this point. This is where he loses it at this point.
• 28:03
  Now he's, now he's, now he's now, the great thing about it, at this point,
• 28:06
  he's now pretty much lost the plot.
• 28:08
  Yeah. And he doesn't care at this point. He's going to take chances now.
• 28:11
  Is he going to take the Esperado? His character.
• 28:14
  Yeah. He just, what's the point? He's nothing else to lose. Yep.
• 28:17
  So he, he, he, he gets the two cops, he kidnaps them.
• 28:20
  And he ends up calling Estridge on the, on the walkie talkie.
• 28:24
  Well, I didn't do this, man.
• 28:26
  Your boys are dead because of this fucking nut job.
• 28:30
  And i do like the fact when he shows up writer shows up and he just pretty much,
• 28:37
  blows the shit out of them okay yeah blows the shit out
• 28:40
  of them yeah exactly yeah
• 28:44
  and it's just not it's not long after this that we'll get the
• 28:47
  sort of the whole nice scene where she's ripped into which is again it all goes
• 28:53
  back to the the sort of i think it's pretty pretty sure in my head that certainly
• 28:59
  Ryder sees it as some sort of almost sexual fetish type game that he's playing with Jim,
• 29:07
  you know, almost like some sort of BDSM, you know, but with real lives.
• 29:12
  And, yeah, I mean, it's pretty, yeah, it's dark stuff.
• 29:16
  One of the scenes we passed on, which is an important scene,
• 29:20
  where he's getting a cup of coffee.
• 29:24
  This is before he goes on the bus. Yeah.
• 29:28
  And sees Nash again and explains everything. Mm-hmm.
• 29:31
  Is where he's sitting down having a cup of coffee, and he's looking like shit.
• 29:35
  Even everyone's saying, you okay, son? Yeah, I'm fine. Leave me alone. Give me a cup of coffee.
• 29:40
  And Ryder sits right next to him. Just, oh, buddy. Right across from him.
• 29:44
  And he goes, oh, buddy, I got a gun, man. And the great thing, when C.
• 29:48
  Thomas Howell, when he has a gun underneath the table, he doesn't realize it's empty. Exactly.
• 29:54
  It's all these deaths on these cops that are happening around him.
• 29:58
  And this family has been executed.
• 29:59
  There's this one moment of hilarious, very funny. It's between these two right now.
• 30:04
  And so he's got the gun and the writer is sitting there and he's like,
• 30:08
  well, I got my gun underneath here. I'll blow your dick off, whatever he says. Yeah.
• 30:13
  And Halsey, the way C. Thomas Howell sells it, he just looks crazy.
• 30:17
  He's like, yeah, you're going to shoot me? Yeah. He's completely desperate.
• 30:20
  He's like, yeah, you're going to shoot me? Yeah. And he, and all Rucker Howard
• 30:24
  does is make a bumping sound and he starts firing his, what it is now we find out an empty gun. Yeah.
• 30:30
  Because he tells him, you got that. You didn't even check it.
• 30:33
  Yeah. Yeah. You didn't check it. I emptied all the bullets in the gun at the
• 30:36
  prison. Yeah. And then he throws the bullets back down on the table.
• 30:40
  Yeah. Well, this is the cool part. This is where I was talking about where I,
• 30:44
  it, it, the nail in the coffin that he wants to, he wants him to kill him.
• 30:48
  Yeah. So he licks the two pennies and he puts them over Halsey's eyes.
• 30:55
  And that was a way to inform him.
• 31:00
  Two things. Either you're going to die or I'm going to die.
• 31:04
  And in obviously old Egyptian times or mythology, I can't remember what it's under.
• 31:09
  Oh, even I think Victorian times. When somebody dies, let me finish, please.
• 31:14
  When somebody dies, you put two coins. Yes.
• 31:17
  Maybe one on their tongue or two over their eyes to pay the ferryman to bring
• 31:22
  you to heaven or wherever you're going. Yeah.
• 31:25
  And that was his way of saying it's either going to be you or I.
• 31:29
  And the reason I say that is because he
• 31:32
  ends up giving him the bullets for the gun and he walks
• 31:35
  away so he says I'm either going to
• 31:38
  kill you or you're going to kill me you make the
• 31:40
  call I would say that Rucker Har here well
• 31:44
  his character John Ryder wants to die I think that would be the ultimate of
• 31:50
  him winning the game he wants to turn Jim into a killer like himself because
• 31:56
  it's a kinky fetish thing I think,
• 32:01
  I think you're hanging on that too much I think he just wants to die I think
• 32:07
  it's a lot like Kevin Spacey's character in Seven.
• 32:12
  He either wants redemption or he wants to take an innocent person and make him
• 32:19
  a killer yeah or something I don't know but it's got that Seven kind of feel
• 32:24
  or vice versa because this came out first but you can see Christopher Macquarie,
• 32:29
  playing a lot with loosely very loosely guys on the Hitcher with Seven.
• 32:34
  Yeah. The way he's toying with this character.
• 32:38
  And that sort of backs up even more to me. There's definitely,
• 32:41
  at least from John Ryder's point of view, there's definitely a sexual element.
• 32:45
  He's getting off on this, you know, big time.
• 32:48
  That could be true. He could be getting off on it. He might not even be gay.
• 32:51
  Yeah. He could be just getting off on it in general. Yeah. Because he's a sociopath.
• 32:55
  Mm-hmm. boys definitely get,
• 32:58
  Well, you'd be all happy with that. You'd get some, you know, it's you.
• 33:06
  No, I'm not going to do it because I'm classy. Right. I'm classy.
• 33:09
  Right. I'm a very classy person, and I'm not going to bring up the last podcast.
• 33:13
  I don't know what you're talking about.
• 33:15
  I am restraining.
• 33:19
  Here, for the first time in your life, you know. Yeah.
• 33:26
  Yeah. I don't even know what you're talking about I thought the last podcast
• 33:30
  ran completely smoothly yeah I bet you did fuck.
• 33:40
  Yeah well past the action sequences I do like the clipping of the cars and shit it's cool and all,
• 33:48
  but it doesn't suit the film it's a bit Dukes of Hazzard meets CA team at this point,
• 33:54
  but I think it still does work but it's a bit you needed that oomph because
• 34:02
  pretty much most of the film is dialogue driven so you needed that little,
• 34:07
  80s action pack explosion I just think when the writer takes out the gun and
• 34:13
  he's driving and he shoots the helicopter down yeah yeah he's Rambo essentially
• 34:19
  in some of these scenes there's similarities here to the likes of Jewel as well
• 34:24
  and you know there was a film in the 90s,
• 34:27
  I remember watching I think it might be Kurt Russell,
• 34:31
  Breakdown, you're thinking of Breakdown Breakdown, yes, that's it So there was
• 34:35
  similarities, obviously Breakdown came after it So yeah, a lot of that was sort
• 34:40
  of running through my head when I was watching these scenes as well.
• 34:43
  Well, he's with Nash now, and they're in that hotel room, and he goes to shower,
• 34:51
  and she's sleeping, and there he is in the room.
• 34:54
  He's like, that's a fucking great shot. Yeah. He's just in the room staring
• 34:57
  at her. It's just fucking creepy as fuck.
• 34:59
  Yeah. And, of course, he comes out of the shower, walks out,
• 35:03
  and, again, I like the cops are smart. This is Estoridge now.
• 35:08
  Estoridge is the one who talked to him before the cops got shot in the car.
• 35:11
  He goes listen kid we know you're not the
• 35:14
  problem we need you to talk him down he
• 35:17
  wants to see you yeah so the cops were always
• 35:20
  with him the whole time which besides the the two cops were
• 35:22
  kind of the one cop went gung-ho but i do like that that's the way cops would
• 35:28
  react and so they're smart but again this is where it leads the scene which
• 35:34
  was probably the most talked about scene in the film and if anybody was offended
• 35:38
  would be this scene where Jennifer Jason Leigh,
• 35:41
  Nash gets torn in half. But you don't actually see it.
• 35:45
  I know, but Jesus Christ you still go, oh.
• 35:47
  And it shows you how well it is directed the fact that it upsets so many people
• 35:52
  because it's like the whole you know, people thinking that they saw red blood
• 35:58
  running down the drain in the shower scene in Psycho.
• 36:01
  You don't actually see it. So people being
• 36:04
  upset you like to have a hybrid up you gene siskel was
• 36:07
  shouting about his disgust of this film and stuff and
• 36:11
  you're like why you know what i mean yes there is a lot of heavy suggestion
• 36:16
  of extreme violence but you're not actually seeing it on the screen and a lot
• 36:19
  of people like the texas chainsaw massacre the original that a lot of people
• 36:23
  probably still to this day we'll call it a sicko film and a really violent film
• 36:28
  but they're not really and,
• 36:31
  The Texas Chainsaw had a PG rating. But in the UK it didn't.
• 36:36
  Well, I don't care. On the stage it had a PG. And he goes, guys,
• 36:40
  please, I need an hour here.
• 36:42
  Nobody's going to want to see a PG Texas Chainsaw movie.
• 36:45
  Well, in the UK, at the time of the Video Nasty score, there were actually several Video Nasty lists.
• 36:51
  Now, the main one had 72 titles on it, but I know that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre
• 36:55
  was on one of the other lists, I believe.
• 36:59
  I think I'm right there. but yeah so it certainly wasn't a pg here you know
• 37:04
  so the way the scene handles itself is.
• 37:10
  You've got three elements here you've got halsey please
• 37:13
  don't do this i i can't shoot you if i shoot you you'll take
• 37:16
  your hand off the brake and you'll
• 37:19
  kill her and he's saying you have to kill me
• 37:22
  and even the way writer sells it or
• 37:25
  work out is he looks
• 37:28
  tired in this scene first he's playing
• 37:31
  with him the whole time he's grinning with him in this scene he's
• 37:34
  tired and worn out he wants it's almost like he's he's
• 37:37
  almost like again going back to
• 37:40
  baby batty where he's dying at
• 37:43
  this point and he just wants you to finish him off i i'm done i end of the game
• 37:47
  would you please just kill me but he can't and what the attention was you've
• 37:51
  got her you see her kind of you don't see her stretching you see like from her
• 37:55
  wrists or something yeah and then you hear her screaming and then you hear the
• 37:59
  revving of the engine yes that's how they
• 38:01
  pull the intensity of her being torn apart again sound effects just like the
• 38:05
  Texas Chainsaw Massacre did as well with the you know people getting put on
• 38:08
  hooks and stuff it's just very well done and of course,
• 38:14
  we know the outcome there yes
• 38:15
  now the jail scene he finally gets to go sit down face to face with him.
• 38:22
  And this is where he grabs his hand. The cops are looking at him like,
• 38:25
  why are you grabbing this fucker's hand?
• 38:27
  And you think this might be right, what you're saying about the writer character.
• 38:33
  And Halsey's kind of figured it out. Yes. He goes in, as you think,
• 38:37
  for a kiss, but he spits in his face.
• 38:40
  And if you notice, what Ryder does is he puts his hands on his face,
• 38:47
  kind of like you do if you're saying a prayer. He's being rejected.
• 38:51
  And then he rubs the spit that he spit on him around his lips.
• 38:56
  It's like, aw, dude. But he's also being rejected at this point by Jim sexually,
• 39:01
  you know, because throughout the whole film before this, he's basically wanting
• 39:06
  Jim for himself. But Jim. I don't know.
• 39:09
  I think you're still, I think it's not going that far. I mean, obviously.
• 39:12
  I don't think he wants him. I don't think he's sexual. It definitely is to me.
• 39:15
  I do not think, John, I do not think he's like, oh, yeah,
• 39:19
  listen, I'm going to start dismembering these people I will stop if you give
• 39:23
  me a Hummer I mean what the fuck that's not what he's saying right number one
• 39:26
  what the fuck is a Hummer I've never heard that expression before yeah yeah fuck off,
• 39:31
  haven't I fuck off this comes from the guy who
• 39:34
  only wants to see dicks and assholes in a movie and yet you don't know what
• 39:38
  a Hummer is oh I got an idea you sit there and go oh is that a type of truck
• 39:42
  I thought you were restrained I thought you were restrained oh yes too late
• 39:45
  you pissed me off I know you I wouldn't ask you pissed me off I'm basically
• 39:48
  John Ryder and you're Jim Halsey and I've got you to bite.
• 39:52
  Okay. First of all, don't ever compare, don't, dude, you need to sometimes stop before you speak.
• 40:01
  No. Maybe stop and think before you say something. No. You're a sociopath homosexual is what you are now.
• 40:06
  Okay. That's great. I'm glad, I'm glad you are.
• 40:09
  And you know what? If you want to call me Halsey, the one who fucking takes
• 40:12
  a shotgun and fucking pummel you with bullets, not a problem.
• 40:15
  The rage. Not a problem. You know what? The rage.
• 40:18
  No, that's okay with me. But I do like the ending where he says he's had enough
• 40:24
  and he decides to go get him for the last shot.
• 40:28
  Yeah. People have a shot because they do it from a distance.
• 40:31
  Yeah. You have a cop car and then you have him with a shotgun and it gets a
• 40:36
  little Terminator when he jumps in the glass.
• 40:39
  Yeah, well, I mean, this is one of the scenes where it does lose its sort of
• 40:43
  gritty realism, you know, whenever he jumps back up after being shot on all.
• 40:47
  And, you know, it's like the whole sort of, you know, final score.
• 40:50
  You know, you think the killer's dead, but he's not really. You know,
• 40:53
  like you would get in a slasher.
• 40:57
  But, yeah, he gets it. He pummels him with a couple rounds in the shotgun.
• 41:02
  And that's it. Lights a cigarette and the credits roll. Yep.
• 41:06
  That's a good movie. It doesn't wear all its welcome. It still holds up for
• 41:10
  me. I love Ruckhaw in this. Actually, they all do their job.
• 41:14
  It's right across the board. C. Thomas Howell. It's definitely C.
• 41:17
  Thomas Howell's best film. Yes. Next to the... Well, actually,
• 41:20
  Red Dawn is probably his best film. No, he's...
• 41:23
  Well... Actually, no, in fairness... No, thank you here. For me.
• 41:26
  His character is a lot like the Red Dawn character.
• 41:30
  Remember, he's the Star Wars kid. Yeah, yeah. Kind of nerd. No,
• 41:33
  no. And then he goes on. And he becomes a bit of a badass.
• 41:35
  Yeah, I mean... Yeah. Yeah. I always quite liked C. Thomas Howell.
• 41:39
  He was not quite Brat Pack, but he was sort of Brat Pack.
• 41:43
  But he didn't quite make it as big as some of the other ones,
• 41:46
  like Emilio Westevais and stuff but I always liked him and you know what he
• 41:50
  about 10-15 years ago he popped up in Torchwood the Doctor Who spin-off so there
• 41:57
  you go there's a Doctor Who reference for you Ciarán he did he did.
• 42:02
  Podcast is over. All right, guys, we're going to wrap this one up. Yeah, check this out.
• 42:09
  People know about it. They all like it. It's one of those friends when you mention,
• 42:13
  oh, yeah, I forgot about the feature.
• 42:14
  They finally released it on 4K, and it's gorgeous. Right, especially with the desert and stuff.
• 42:20
  Yeah, and the sound and all. It's just wonderful. But, guys,
• 42:24
  if you haven't seen it, check it out. It's quite good. There you go.
• 42:28
  We're going to wrap this one up. Listen, people, you all have a good Easter.
• 42:34
  And enjoy yourselves and go, you know, catch bunny rabbits and get eggs.
• 42:41
  Oh my God, Cadbury's eggs. Oh, the worst thing you can eat, the cream filled.
• 42:48
  They have peanut butter versions now. They have peanut butter versions.
• 42:51
  Yeah, well, I mean, I've always had a really bad sweet tooth since I was a kid.
• 42:55
  But yeah, Cadbury chocolate is the best, like, you know, for me anyway.
• 43:00
  You can't go wrong. you can't go wrong and chili beans and you know everything
• 43:04
  and then we're doing i think east
• 43:07
  of dinner on friday night because there's a
• 43:10
  wedding i'm going to yep on sunday monday so i think everyone's just you know
• 43:16
  but uh should be fun well listen guys you guys be safe and enjoy yourselves
• 43:20
  and we'll be back in about a week's time with starting with the mission of possible's retrospective.
• 43:27
  We're going to finish those up because the new one's coming out real quick here
• 43:30
  in less than about a month and a half.
• 43:33
  So we might pepper one more in before we start the Mission of Possibles.
• 43:37
  So if you guys want us to do something, give us a shout. We might do another Western.
• 43:42
  Sorry, I think nothing's edge in stone because we keep changing it quite a bit,
• 43:46
  but Tombstone and Unforgiven and The Cook in the Dead have done really well for us.
• 43:51
  So I think Westerns is the way to go. Maybe do one more before we tackle Mission
• 43:56
  of Well what about, I'll put you on the spot, what about because we've done
• 43:59
  the first one, how about Young Guns 2?
• 44:02
  No, we're going to wait because they're about to film Young Guns 3. Well, fair enough.
• 44:06
  So I think we should wait and do that and maybe revisit all of them together. Okay.
• 44:11
  So let's hold off on that one. Yeah, that's kind of cool. They just announced
• 44:14
  that is official. That's definitely happening. Young Guns 3.
• 44:17
  Yeah. And apparently it's going to be called, and I'm not joking here,
• 44:21
  because obviously these guys are in their at least late 50s, early 60s now.
• 44:25
  They're just calling it Guns 3 because they're not Young Guns anymore. They're just guns.
• 44:31
  Seriously. I can't remember what's going on.
• 44:36
  I know Lou Diamond, Kristen Slater, and Emilio is back, and Emilio is directing.
• 44:41
  But it's pretty tough because I need my Kiefer. So maybe he'll have a twin brother.
• 44:48
  Or maybe it'll be Ghost Kiefer. You know, who knows? Yeah.
• 44:52
  Or a flashback. We'll see. It'll be a flashback with the agent.
• 44:56
  Yeah, but it's a small budget. They're not going to go. We'll see.
• 44:59
  We'll see. You never know.
• 45:01
  Yeah so we might we might just do another western i think we
• 45:04
  probably do like a clint like pill writer or something but give
• 45:08
  us a shout at sis fame underscore podcast
• 45:11
  and instagram or facebook what western you might like us to do next before we
• 45:16
  get to the mission of possibles and we'll take all your suggestions on board
• 45:19
  and we'll run with it the new issue of phantasm glory is out now it is available
• 45:24
  at forbidden planet locally some local stores within the u.s and, of course,
• 45:29
  all around the world on Amazon. Yeah, there's a date. Yep.
• 45:34
  We are done with this one. Thanks for joining us. Have a good one.
• 45:54
  Music.