Latest / onefjef / Moving to Columbus Twice, Underground Yoga in Soviet Lithuania and Finding Somatic Therapy with Anastasija Katcyna (Re-Release)

Transcript

Moving to Columbus Twice, Underground Yoga in Soviet Lithuania and Finding Somatic Therapy with Anastasija Katcyna (Re-Release) · onefjef

0:01
Hola, mis amigos y amigas.
0:04
It's Jef, your parasocial friend Jef.
0:09
Your charming, interesting, funny, confusing parasocial friend Jef Hello.
0:17
How are you?
0:18
I hope you're thriving as always.
0:21
Am I thriving?
0:22
I think I am thriving.
0:23
I think I am.
0:24
I still really enjoy my new apartment.
0:26
I've had this lingering, like, cold, congestion thing for the last week or
0:30
two, and I am not sure if it's because there's more pollution in the area
0:36
that I live in now or if it's because I just have a cold of some sort.
0:42
I'm hoping that it's the latter, but I kind of have a feeling it's,
0:45
like, a combination of both the pollution and a moderate cold.
0:50
So, you know, send some good vibes my way because it's not that I'm sick.
0:56
I'm just, like, congested and, like, I don't have the energy
1:00
that I did two weeks ago.
1:03
So, so there you go.
1:06
Anyway, enough about me.
1:08
This is the second re-released episode of onefjef, and it, like
1:14
the last one, is a good one.
1:16
Anastasija Katcyna, I hope I pronounced that right.
1:19
She tells me in the episode how to pronounce it, but I
1:22
forgot, so that's my best shot.
1:25
I think it's right.
1:26
Anyway, Anastasija is a fascinating human being, and I met her because
1:31
she was one of my favorite yoga teachers in Columbus, Ohio.
1:35
And it feels appropriate to re-release her episode now, not only because
1:40
it's one of my favorites but also because it's an expat story.
1:44
Anastasija was born in Lithuania, in post-Soviet Lithuania, that is, and
1:50
emigrated to Columbus when she was very young, uh, and made it work.
1:55
But it's a longer story than this, and you can hear all about
1:57
it in the interview that follows.
2:00
So I really enjoyed my interview with Anastasija, and I really enjoyed
2:05
re-listening to it a few days ago, and I think that you will too.
2:09
So without further ado, here's my interview with Anastasija Katcyna
2:14
from September 23rd of 2025.
2:19
I will remember this.
2:20
Oh, it's good to know.
2:21
See?
2:22
I will.
2:23
You know?
2:23
Maybe, like, in 10 years I'm gonna be having, like, many, one else or, you know.
2:29
But, but I will remember this one 'cause this is a new experience.
2:32
Oh, well, I'm glad.
2:33
And this is not type of experience of like, well, you know, I'm not being
2:38
expert- Yeah, no, I- … on something.
2:41
Yeah.
2:41
I'm just being a human with- Yeah … all my flaws and- Yeah … you know, all
2:44
my, all my stuff, just like you are.
2:47
That's what I want the thing to be.
2:49
Yeah.
2:50
You know?
2:50
Yeah.
2:51
Yeah.
2:51
This is episode 17 of onefjef.
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17 is a prime number, the sum of the first four primes and the
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only prime between 16 and 18.
3:01
In numerology, 17 reduces to eight, linked with ambition and success, and in Italy
3:06
it's considered unlucky because 17 can be rearranged to vixi, meaning I have lived.
3:13
Have you lived?
3:15
Are you living now?
3:16
If you're listening to this podcast, you are, of course, living in the sense that
3:20
you're existing as a being on this planet.
3:24
But are you really living?
3:26
If the answer is no, perhaps it's time for a change.
3:30
Hello, my friends.
3:32
I hope you're thriving.
3:34
Since I got back from my road trip, I've been a bit overwhelmed I feel
3:41
like I'm at a turning point of some sort in my life, which has opened
3:47
the door to lots of possibilities and decisions and so forth, which is
3:51
exciting, but it's also stressful.
3:55
I'm no stranger to making drastic changes in my life.
4:00
But at 51, the idea of a drastic change feels a bit more daunting than it did
4:04
when I was, like, 29 or 32 or even 44.
4:10
We all get stuck in our ways as we get older, and I think this more than anything
4:16
is why I need to make a big change.
4:19
I lived in Columbus for about seven years, which is quite longer than I
4:23
imagined I would, although I'm not sure how long I imagined I would.
4:27
And since I got laid off earlier this year, I've had this nagging
4:30
feeling that it's somehow time to go.
4:34
I think that's why I've been traveling so much this year.
4:37
And this feeling was, was reinforced in many ways during my road trip.
4:43
And since I've been back, there have been several signs which indicate
4:46
to me that the universe is, like, agreeing with this nagging feeling.
4:51
And when the universe is giving you signs, I feel like it's best to
4:53
heed them, particularly when one of the signs is a crazy landlord who
4:58
is growing increasingly unhinged.
5:01
But I digress.
5:03
As always, thank you to my new and continuing Patreon subscribers.
5:07
You are all wonderful humans.
5:10
I did put up a bonus episode just for my Patreon subscribers.
5:14
I put that up this morning, and if you'd like to hear that and also
5:19
see the pictures from my road trip and also help support the podcast,
5:23
please do go to patreon.com/onefjef.
5:28
For as little as $5 a month, you can help support the show and
5:31
get a bunch of extra content.
5:33
Perhaps not a bunch of, but you'll get some extra content.
5:36
I don't know how you quantify a bunch.
5:38
Everybody defines it differently, I imagine.
5:41
But you will get extra content that nobody else gets to hear
5:44
except for you, you special humans.
5:46
Patreon.com/onefjef.
5:50
Today's guest is Anastasija Katsina Is a somatic therapist, educator, and
5:55
yoga teacher whose work integrates somatic experiencing, breathwork,
5:59
movement, and expressive art.
6:00
She holds a master's in public health and has training in somatic movement,
6:04
dance and movement therapy, Katona yoga, and trauma-informed modalities.
6:09
Her focus is on helping people feel safe in their bodies, attune to
6:13
nervous system cues, and heal through embodiment rather than only through talk.
6:17
I met Stasia in a yoga class about a year ago.
6:21
I was initially struck by her unique accent, which seemed somewhat out
6:27
of place in Columbus, let alone in a yoga studio in Columbus.
6:30
But she quickly turned into one of my favorite yoga teachers, both
6:34
in this city or any city, really.
6:37
Her classes are unique and challenging and fun in a way
6:41
that's kind of hard to describe.
6:43
If you get a chance, I highly recommend taking one of her classes.
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She also has a fascinating life story, which you'll hear in this episode.
6:51
She grew up in post-Soviet Lithuania, and then she somehow
6:54
ended up here in Columbus, Ohio.
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It's a story of looking for yourself in different places and different
7:01
people, and then eventually finding yourself in yourself.
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It's a story that I very much relate to, and I think we can
7:10
all relate to it in some way.
7:13
I really enjoyed this conversation with Stacia, and I hope you will too.
7:17
Thank you for listening.
7:18
Thank you for being here.
7:20
Here's Anastasija Katsena.
7:24
I hope I pronounced that right.
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Apologies if not
7:30
I'll be honest, I have, like, avoided, like, when I, when I come into your
7:33
yoga class, I kind of avoid saying your name because I don't wanna butcher it.
7:38
Mm. So I'm just kinda like, "Hey." Hey.
7:40
Exactly.
7:41
So can you tell me how you actually say your name?
7:43
Because I- So I'm gonna give you a few versions.
7:46
Oh, God.
7:46
Why are you doing that?
7:47
I only want- Give me, just give me the best one.
7:50
Well, I can give you the best one, uh, between my friends and my family- Okay
7:54
… which is a short version, and it's Nastya.
7:57
Nastya, that's easy.
7:58
All right.
7:58
Yeah, that's it.
8:00
What are the other- We're done.
8:00
I, now I need to hear the other one.
8:02
The other one is Anastasiia.
8:04
Anastasiia.
8:05
Mm-hmm.
8:05
Okay.
8:06
So think about as, like, nice to see you.
8:08
Right.
8:08
Anastasiia.
8:09
Oh, that's good.
8:10
It rhymes well.
8:10
Yeah, yeah.
8:11
I would've, I would've done, like, Anastasia, and you
8:14
probably get that all the time.
8:15
Yeah, and that too.
8:16
Yeah.
8:16
It's, it's, uh, more of a, like, South America- Right … uh,
8:21
pronunciation, Anastasia.
8:24
Anastasia.
8:24
And what's your last name?
8:25
How do you pronounce that?
8:26
Kacena.
8:27
Kacena.
8:27
And where are you from?
8:29
Lithuania.
8:30
Lithuania?
8:30
Mm-hmm.
8:31
Hmm.
8:31
Yeah.
8:32
And, uh, let me tell you how you got on my radar.
8:36
Um- I was doing a, like a f- a free one-month thing at GO last
8:42
year Uh-huh … at Go Yoga.
8:45
Yeah.
8:45
And, uh, you know, like s- some of the teachers were okay, but I was going
8:48
like every single day at the time.
8:50
And then one day you were, like, subbing for somebody, and I was like, "Oh, there's
8:53
an interesting teacher actually teaching here I'd never…" And then I was at one
8:57
of the… I guess it was a couple months after that- Mm-hmm … 'cause I had come
9:00
to a bunch of your classes there, and then it was a couple months after that,
9:02
we were at a, the sound bath thing.
9:05
Mm-hmm.
9:05
And I walked in, and you pointed at me and you're like, "I know
9:08
you." Mm. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah." Yeah, that's right.
9:12
And, and then we- It was a home, home sound bath.
9:14
Right.
9:14
Yeah.
9:14
And then we figured out that Emily, uh, is a mutual connection, so weird, small town.
9:19
Yeah.
9:19
Yeah.
9:20
Columbus is very small.
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It is.
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The longer I'm here, the more I, uh, yeah, realize that.
9:26
Uh-huh.
9:26
For better or for worse, I suppose.
9:28
Yeah.
9:28
Yeah.
9:28
I, I still don't know if it's better or for worse.
9:30
Yeah.
9:31
I don't, I don't either.
9:31
I think that we share similar feelings about where we live right now.
9:36
Are you from Columbus?
9:37
No.
9:37
I grew up in Cleveland.
9:38
Okay.
9:39
Um, and then kinda lived around the world.
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Lived in Korea for a little bit, lived in London for a bit.
9:45
Mm-hmm.
9:45
Uh, and then went, lived in Savannah, Georgia.
9:47
Mm. Went to school down there, and then was in New York for 10 years.
9:50
Mm-hmm.
9:50
And then I moved here about six years ago for a job-
9:53
Mm … that I lost during COVID.
9:54
Mm-hmm.
9:55
So now I'm trying to figure out what I wanna do next.
9:57
Okay.
9:57
I'm presently unemployed.
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This is why I have time to do a podcast.
10:01
This is how it all starts.
10:02
Yeah.
10:02
Right, right, right.
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I mean, I'm already shopping for houses 'cause this is a money-maker.
10:06
This is … I can feel the money rolling in.
10:08
Yeah.
10:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:09
Yeah.
10:09
Uh, how did you end up getting from Lithuania to Columbus, Ohio, where we are?
10:15
Um, so this is my second time here, so I kind of moved to Columbus twice.
10:21
Wow.
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So it's definitely some karmic… for sure.
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Something's, something's drawing you here.
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Why?
10:27
Right.
10:27
Why?
10:27
Yeah.
10:28
Yeah.
10:28
Uh, first time I came, um, gosh, I was 18, and, uh, I got a green card.
10:33
Okay.
10:33
So my mom got a green card.
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I got a green card because I was under 21.
10:38
Okay.
10:38
And then we just… At that time, it's like 2002 I mean, like, I think
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flip phones are still the, you know, like- Yeah … we don't have a social
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media- Right, right … yet, right?
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So everything is slower- Mm-hmm … and, uh, you know, getting documents
10:55
and, you know, there's a lot of…
10:56
There's, uh, many steps in order to get even the green card.
11:00
There's probably more now.
11:01
Probably, yes.
11:02
Yeah, yeah.
11:02
Mm-hmm.
11:03
Or opposite, they just simplified everything 'cause, yeah.
11:07
Right.
11:07
And, um, yeah, so and we just had w- w- I didn't, I literally didn't even have
11:13
a, you know, clue where we're going, so we were supposed to go to Florida.
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But then the company that we found, uh, they said there was no space
11:22
for us to stay and to work because you need somebody provide you with
11:25
work- Uh-huh … and a place to stay.
11:28
So whenever you enter the country, you need an address, but if
11:32
you don't have anyone, right?
11:34
So there you go.
11:35
So Columbus, Ohio.
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Did you leave Lithuania for…
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Was there a reason that you left?
11:41
Oh, no.
11:41
No.
11:41
I mean, it was just green card.
11:43
Just green card.
11:44
So you're kind of looking for- Okay … opportunities.
11:47
I'm just graduated from high school, and I mean, I had nothing
11:51
to lose, so I just end up going.
11:53
Well, my mom actually told us, "Go there." How was it growing up in Lithuania?
11:59
Fun.
12:01
Okay.
12:01
Now that I look back- Right … absolutely.
12:04
Sure.
12:04
Yeah.
12:04
Sure It was a lot of fun.
12:05
It was hard for m- m- my parents- Right … for our parents.
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I didn't know any better.
12:11
How was it, how was it hard?
12:14
Well, you know, what I remember, it's Soviet and then post-Soviet times.
12:18
Right.
12:19
And that's usually when, you know, that's when…
12:21
I didn't really see my parents much.
12:23
Oh, okay.
12:24
So there was a time when, uh, Soviet Union collapsed, and everyone, everyone had
12:29
to just go and just make money, hustle.
12:33
Right, right, right.
12:34
Hustle, basically.
12:36
You're either hustling or you're hustling.
12:39
There's no other way.
12:40
And your parents figured out how to hustle?
12:43
Yeah.
12:43
My mom, my mom figured out quite quickly.
12:47
She was- Yeah, I was in Russia, like, two years after the, the Soviet
12:51
Union collapsed, and it was just corruption, and mafia kind of was-
12:55
Yeah … the rule of the day at the time.
12:57
Yeah.
12:58
Yeah.
12:58
Yeah.
12:59
Yeah.
12:59
It was a lot of that, uh, kind of, um, you're basically, uh, lawless kind
13:04
of experience because the government, you know, there is transition- Right
13:08
transmutation- Right … you know, transformation.
13:10
Right.
13:10
Right?
13:11
So people would just take advantage of weak people.
13:16
Like they do.
13:18
Always.
13:18
Always.
13:19
Always.
13:20
Gosh, you traveled a lot.
13:22
Korea, London, Russia.
13:25
Yeah.
13:25
Iceland, I just learned.
13:27
Well, that was just, like, that wasn't living.
13:28
That was just visiting.
13:29
But yeah, yeah.
13:29
Yeah, yeah.
13:30
I have a… I've been trying to get… Like, I'm unemployed, so I said no
13:34
I'm trying to get a, a remote job so I can kind of do the n- digital
13:37
nomad thing because- Mm-hmm … I'm 51, I'm unattached, I have no kids.
13:40
What am I doing here?
13:41
What am I doing?
13:42
Y- yeah.
13:42
You know what I mean?
13:43
Yeah.
13:43
Like- I ask myself the same question.
13:46
But you, but you have a partner, so that's something, right?
13:49
I mean, you know.
13:50
Yeah, yeah.
13:51
You know, it's like every single situation has its pluses and minuses.
13:56
It sure does.
13:57
It sure does.
13:57
It's, you always compromise.
13:58
Yeah.
13:58
If it's not with your internal voice, then with the- Yeah
14:02
… people around you, you know?
14:03
I always feel like I'm kind of in- A hurry Mm-hmm
14:08
like, my kind of MO is, like, I'm, I'm, I'm… And it's a thing I always have
14:12
worked on and am working on, but, like, patience, 'cause I feel like we've only
14:15
got this one, this one life, right?
14:17
Mm-hmm.
14:18
And I don't feel… And I feel like I gotta, I gotta do the stuff, right?
14:21
I gotta live the thing.
14:22
Um, and I feel like that is why I get mad at people while I'm driving.
14:28
'Cause you're interfering with my life.
14:30
You're, you're taking my time away.
14:31
This is your hypothesis.
14:32
This is how I can justify it.
14:33
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:34
I'll go… Yeah, so doing therapy on Monday.
14:37
Um- Do you think it's related for, um, like, a lot with the age
14:41
and just, you know, transitioning into the other half of century?
14:46
I think I've already… I mean, believe me, poss- I- I've always been like
14:51
this, so I think it's not really that.
14:53
I do think that, um, at a certain point, I don't know, it was probably, I don't
15:00
know, five years ago- Mm … after I'd moved here, I always kind of was
15:03
feeling like I was living, and maybe you can relate, maybe you can't, but
15:06
I always felt like I was living for, like, some future moment- Mm-hmm
15:09
you know, that was coming.
15:10
Mm-hmm.
15:11
And that this wasn't life- Mm-hmm … you know?
15:14
And one day, I just kind of snapped in me, and I was like, "Oh, no, this
15:17
is, this is it. This is the thing that we're all…" Mm. You know what I mean?
15:21
Yeah.
15:21
It seems, like, simple, but it, it struck me as being really profound- Yeah … and,
15:25
like, meaningful in a weird, bizarre way.
15:26
So.
15:27
Mm-hmm.
15:27
Um, yeah.
15:28
Yeah, I hear you, and this is just kind of, you know the concepts.
15:32
There, there's so many concepts, but then you need to have that felt sense- Right
15:37
… embodied present moment to- Right … be like, okay, there's, th- this is it.
15:42
There's no past.
15:43
There's no future.
15:44
And this is it- Yeah … right here, right now.
15:46
Yeah.
15:46
I wanted to make T-shirts that said This Is It for a while.
15:49
Mm-hmm.
15:49
But I asked a few people if they'd like that, and they were like, "We'd think
15:52
of the Michael Jackson album." Oh.
15:54
'Cause he had that album.
15:54
Okay.
15:54
And so I nixed that idea.
15:57
Yeah.
15:57
I d- I made one for myself though, and people seemed to
15:59
like it, but then it got a stain.
16:01
Good story.
16:03
I like This Is It with a stain or a coffee stain.
16:07
I don't know what the stain was.
16:08
Blood stain would be even better.
16:10
Um, so, uh, so tr- uh, uh, culture shock coming from
16:16
Lithuania to the United States?
16:17
Did you speak the language at the time, or?
16:20
Mm.
16:23
By the way, who is listening, we're drinking, uh, Topo Chico.
16:26
Oh, yes, this podcast sponsored by Topo Chico.
16:28
Topo Chico.
16:28
We are open for sponsorship.
16:31
Thank you very much, by the way.
16:33
Uh, always appreciate that.
16:34
Yeah.
16:35
Uh, cultural shock.
16:37
You know when, when you're 18, you're like you just won the world, you know?
16:43
Mm-hmm.
16:44
You're like, "Ah."
16:48
Mm-hmm You know?
16:49
Was it scary?
16:51
Yeah, of course.
16:51
Was it uncomfortable?
16:52
Absolutely.
16:53
But that's when you do crazy stuff- Sure … when you're young- Yeah
16:57
… because you're just, just going to the next thing, and to the next thing.
16:59
It seems like it could be kind of an amazing time to move to a
17:02
new country when you're just 18, because it's like almost- Yeah
17:05
yeah.
17:05
Yeah, yeah.
17:07
It's like, you know, you can, you can explore and do whatever.
17:11
And I'm so happy, so happy I did it when social media was not
17:15
around- Right … smartphones were n- you know, not there yet.
17:18
Right, right.
17:19
So I really got a chance to experience, uh, States and, uh, here
17:25
Columbus, Ohio from the street level.
17:27
Right.
17:28
And what were your initial, if you can remember, your initial, like,
17:32
thoughts about Columbus, Ohio?
17:34
But it was the first place you were in the States, right?
17:36
Yeah.
17:36
So it's- Yeah … yeah.
17:37
Yeah, exactly.
17:37
So at that point, you know, and again, y- you only-
17:44
You only create an opinion when you s- when you have
17:48
something compare with Right.
17:50
Right.
17:51
So you're only comparing it to Lithuania.
17:52
So I'm like, oh, just comparing to Lithuania when things are just picking up.
17:56
Think about 2002, 1990, 1992, this is when it, like, all started collapsing, so we
18:02
really had only, what, 10 years to- Right … bounce, you know, change currency.
18:08
It's, it's… Yeah.
18:10
Yeah.
18:10
So, um, what I thought about it, was it cultural shock?
18:15
Probably was.
18:16
Right.
18:16
I don't remember that, you know.
18:18
How was it, to be honest?
18:19
And did you… You were 18, so what did you do?
18:21
Were you gonna school or did you get a job or?
18:23
Oh my gosh.
18:23
So with a green card, there is, like, a loop in the system.
18:28
Uh-huh.
18:29
You cannot get a job if you don't have a Social Security, but also you
18:34
need to wait for Social Security.
18:35
So you have a green card but you don't have Social Security, and you
18:38
cannot really, like, go and just, you know, get your employment.
18:42
Yeah.
18:42
And back then, you didn't get your Social Security number in,
18:46
like, what, two, three months.
18:47
It takes forever.
18:48
Right.
18:50
So, uh, yeah, illegal job in a hotel.
18:54
Oh, illegal job in a hotel?
18:56
Mm-hmm.
18:56
All right.
18:56
Yeah.
18:57
Great.
18:57
For three months.
18:58
Um, which hotel was it, if you don't mind?
19:02
I don't know if it's- Uh- … uh, there anymore.
19:04
Uh, Hyatt on- Yeah … Capitol Square.
19:07
Oh, yeah, I think it was Hyatt.
19:08
I think that's actually where I- It was there … they put me up when I came
19:10
in for the job interview for the job that I moved here for, weirdly enough.
19:13
Oh, okay.
19:13
Maybe it was the Hilton.
19:14
Doesn't matter.
19:15
Yeah.
19:16
Yeah, yeah.
19:16
Yeah.
19:16
But, but then it was like, oh, yeah.
19:19
Right.
19:20
So w- we live in the, uh, we were staying in the Whitehall.
19:24
Okay.
19:24
I- And then the bus.
19:26
So you take bus to the Broad Street, and you just go into this big building.
19:32
Wow.
19:32
You're a little tiny person.
19:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:35
You know?
19:36
Yeah.
19:36
So it was fun.
19:37
But you were- It was fun … and you knew the language already.
19:39
No.
19:40
No, you didn't.
19:40
Wow.
19:40
So I learned it, uh, German in, uh, school.
19:44
Okay.
19:45
And then, uh, supposed to, the plan was to study in, uh, un- um, German university.
19:53
Okay.
19:54
And then green card happened, so I just had to r- r- like,
19:58
just, just learn English.
19:59
Wow.
20:00
And how- Yeah, so we did the, um, uh, I, I took some, um, classes,
20:04
some private lessons with one of the teachers and then… But you only
20:09
learn the language when you speak the language, when you- Sure … so that.
20:13
Yeah.
20:13
I'm trying to learn Spanish, but it's just not… When I was in Mexico, I
20:17
realized I should know more Spanish.
20:19
But- If you- Yeah … don't practice, it's, you know.
20:21
Right.
20:22
Right.
20:22
It's a memory.
20:23
Right.
20:23
Right.
20:23
Um, so was it, how long, how long do you think it took you to get from zero
20:27
to- To what we are speaking, right?
20:30
Sure.
20:31
Yeah, yeah.
20:31
To basically this, yeah.
20:32
And seems like, yeah, it's still, uh Being able to teach yoga and stuff, yeah.
20:34
Yeah.
20:35
Um, h- who knows, you know?
20:39
Right.
20:39
'Cause I moved here, stayed here, but then I left nine years after that.
20:44
Okay.
20:44
Like, I had a 10-year gap where I mainly s- you know, talk in,
20:50
uh, uh, Russian and Lithuanian.
20:53
Right.
20:53
So I was just kind of forgetting and coming back to it, but after nine years
20:58
of being here, you just, you just, you just kind of stay with the language.
21:01
I will tell you though, um, after a while I found out that I can, um,
21:06
apply for, um, financial support, uh, studying in college and university.
21:12
Mm. And that's when I went to Columbus State Community College.
21:18
Okay.
21:18
ESL.
21:20
And then eventually, I think when I already, uh, got to OSU-
21:24
Okay … that's when I'm, "Oh, w- okay, I, I think I'm getting it."
21:29
Right.
21:29
I can write papers- Right … without ChatGPT and, uh, you know.
21:33
So, yeah.
21:34
It is helpful.
21:34
Yeah.
21:35
Yeah.
21:35
Yeah.
21:36
Yeah.
21:36
So you lived in Columbus for nine years, and you… Where did you… Where, where
21:40
were you doing in those nine years?
21:41
When did the… Well, we can get to when… Let me know when the yoga starts,
21:44
but- Yeah … like, the nine years in, in Columbus, you're how old at this point?
21:47
Ni- 18 to, what, like, 20-whatever, 7.
21:50
25 25, I think.
21:52
25, yeah.
21:52
Um, yeah, so basically, uh, quite, very fast found out I can study.
21:57
So for me it was, "Okay, I'm staying." My mom, we, we came together.
22:01
Okay.
22:01
We stayed for, um, six months.
22:04
She decided to come back because at the time, uh, she has, had a boyfriend.
22:09
Okay.
22:09
But they were not married.
22:11
So she's like, "I'm going home." Okay.
22:12
And I'm like, "Okay, I'm staying 'cause I have this chance to, you
22:16
know, try something." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:17
"So I'll stay." So I went to Columbus, the college.
22:20
Right.
22:21
Stay there, and then realize I can go to OSU.
22:25
So basically that whole time it kept me, you know, going.
22:29
So I think, yeah.
22:31
And it took me a while to graduate, to be honest.
22:34
Mm-hmm.
22:34
Just because I was working several jobs- Yeah, mm-hmm … and kind
22:37
of supporting myself at that time.
22:39
Grinding.
22:39
So yeah.
22:40
And so I would just take classes, not take classes, you know?
22:45
Yeah, go back home, visit my family.
22:46
And what were you like at this point in your life?
22:49
Like- Uh, partying Mm-hmm.
22:53
Mm-hmm Gotta do it Yeah.
22:55
Yeah Yeah.
22:55
We were partying hard Yeah.
22:57
Okay And that was not, like, associated with, um, always your, um, kind of
23:04
group of people Right There are a few friends that- Right … kind of, you
23:07
know, stayed together, but majority it was my Russian-speaking community Okay.
23:13
Is there a big Russian-speaking community in- I think now it
23:16
is and grown that time, yeah.
23:19
But it also was this everybody eventually knows.
23:23
Everyone knows everyone Right, especially if you're in such a
23:26
small- Yeah, yeah, yeah … town.
23:28
Yeah Yeah, exactly.
23:29
So Big Yeah Big enough-ish Right Yeah Right Yeah, yeah So then why
23:35
did you decide to leave Columbus?
23:37
Why on earth would you ever wanna leave Columbus, Ohio?
23:40
Yeah, right.
23:40
I know.
23:41
I mean… I mean, I knew it's gonna happen.
23:43
Like, I rem- I… There's, you know, certain, certain… Just like with
23:47
your felt sense of present moment.
23:49
Right Certain moments you're just, "This is it." Time to go.
23:53
I knew.
23:53
I was driving the highway one day, and it was the summertime, and
23:57
there's just concrete everywhere.
24:00
And I looked around like, "I, I, I cannot be here" Yeah "I just can't" Yeah So
24:05
I was just waiting until I graduate.
24:07
And nothing was really keeping me… I didn't have relationships.
24:11
Right And then I just, "Okay, I can just go reconnect with my family and decide
24:15
what I'm going to do next." Right.
24:17
Right.
24:17
Yeah.
24:17
So you went back to Lithuania?
24:19
Yeah.
24:20
Mm-hmm.
24:20
Okay.
24:21
Okay.
24:21
Sold all my little, very little belongings.
24:25
Oh, I love it.
24:26
Okay, yeah.
24:26
Got a good deal for the car, and yeah.
24:28
That's good.
24:29
Yeah, yeah.
24:29
Yeah, yeah.
24:29
That's it.
24:30
So then you're back in Lithuania and… Oh, back in Lithuania
24:35
and, oh, God, that was messy.
24:37
Oh, was it?
24:38
Yeah.
24:39
In what way?
24:40
I was depressed.
24:41
Mm. You missed Columbus.
24:43
Yes, exactly.
24:44
I missed Columbus.
24:45
That happens to everybody apparently- Oh, yeah … when you bucket.
24:48
Yeah.
24:48
You know, and now I'm here.
24:49
Right.
24:50
Right.
24:50
Now you're back.
24:51
Yeah, yeah.
24:53
Um, y- it… Yeah, you just, you graduate, you don't know what to do.
24:57
Well, you're living with your mom again, too, which is hard.
25:00
Yeah.
25:01
Yeah, at that age.
25:02
Um, I went back.
25:03
Well, I ha- I have really good relationships with my mom.
25:06
That's good.
25:07
And, um, I end up traveling and coming back and forth.
25:11
And I went back, actually, to the States.
25:13
Okay.
25:14
The, uh, um, stayed for, like, six months, and I figured I just
25:19
need to continue the education.
25:21
So I end up, um, yeah, end up flying to Scotland, Edinburgh, and
25:28
studying in Edinburgh University.
25:30
Oh, right on.
25:30
That's a pretty town.
25:31
Yeah.
25:31
Yeah.
25:32
Giant fucking castle right in the middle of town.
25:33
Yeah.
25:33
Nobody can complain about that, right?
25:33
No.
25:33
Yeah.
25:33
Not like Columbus at all.
25:33
Yeah.
25:33
That's what we need, is a castle in the middle of town.
25:34
We
25:39
need to turn it down a little bit in Columbus.
25:42
I don't know what we need to turn down, though, but maybe we could turn down
25:45
Buckeye football just a little bit.
25:48
Cult.
25:48
Um- … we can do… This, uh, this episode also sponsored by Columbus, Ohio.
25:53
The lovely city of Columbus, Ohio.
25:56
Um… To be honest, you know, like, what I, I, I w- I found
25:59
myself, like, like, being bitter.
26:02
Mm-hmm.
26:04
And then, you know, again, it hit me another way, uh, when, um, my
26:10
partner and I were talking and I was, you know… Can we curse here?
26:15
Sure.
26:16
Yeah.
26:16
Oh, yeah.
26:16
I was bitching about, you know, w- w- where I wanna go, what I wanna do,
26:22
and how I miss home, and he's like, "Well, you realize this is my home.
26:27
This is where I was born.
26:28
This is my land." Right.
26:29
Whether it's pretty, not pretty, this and this.
26:32
And I'm like, "Ah." Of course, selfish of me, 'cause then I took
26:37
him to Lithuania to where I grew up.
26:40
Right.
26:41
And he's like, "This is not pretty at all," because it's a post-Soviet-
26:45
Oh, right … uh, area of, you know, three or four factories
26:48
that don't even function anymore.
26:50
Right, right.
26:50
And it's just, like, very depressing, um, five stories Soviet buildings.
26:55
You know- Huh … nothing pretty about that.
26:57
Right.
26:57
But it's my land.
26:58
Sure.
26:59
And it's pretty- Right … for me.
27:02
Yeah, I kinda wanna know what it looks like now.
27:04
S- yeah, so.
27:05
Yeah.
27:05
So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, that's what it is.
27:09
Right.
27:09
So for me, it's kind of like I chose to be here, and there's a moment when
27:13
I will choose to go somewhere else.
27:16
Yeah.
27:16
I just feel like I get, I think I get stir-crazy.
27:19
I mean, I was in New York for 10 years, and that was the longest I think I've
27:22
ever been in one place- Mm-hmm … for, except for when, like, childhood,
27:25
you know, when I was growing up.
27:27
And I just, you know, I don't know how long I expected to be here, but
27:31
it's been s- like six and a half years now, and I'm just starting to feel,
27:35
I don't know, like I've gotten all that I can get from here or something.
27:38
Mm-hmm.
27:38
But then again, everywhere you go, there you are.
27:40
You know?
27:41
If there's one thing I've learned- Yeah … you know, wherever you go,
27:43
you're still there with your head.
27:44
Yeah.
27:45
So.
27:45
Yeah.
27:46
So it goes.
27:46
So it goes.
27:47
Yeah.
27:48
Yeah.
27:48
There… And, and I feel bad 'cause we've been not giving Columbus good,
27:52
good… There's very wonderful- Release
27:53
there's wonderful people here.
27:55
Very, very friendly.
27:57
Very low cost of living.
27:58
Uh- There's a lot of pluses.
28:00
Yeah, yeah.
28:00
Yeah.
28:00
There's some.
28:01
Just wish there was a little more terrain, you know?
28:03
Yeah.
28:03
Like, just a little bit.
28:05
Little bit, you know.
28:06
A mountain or two.
28:07
Um, so how did the… At that point in this… Oh, I gotta go back.
28:12
W- your dad not in the picture?
28:14
What was the, what's the story?
28:15
Oh, yeah.
28:16
That's right.
28:16
I, mm, didn't catch that.
28:18
Uh, well, you know, my parents divorced early, and, um- How
28:22
old were you when that happened?
28:23
What's that?
28:24
How old were you when they…?
28:25
Um- It started around when I was probably like nine, eight- Okay … 10.
28:32
So- So old enough to remember?
28:33
Yeah, old enough to remember.
28:34
Yeah.
28:34
Yeah, exactly.
28:36
And it was just, you know, we would keep in touch.
28:38
Right.
28:39
But not, not like any- Right, right, right … good relationship, so to say.
28:45
Right.
28:46
Yeah.
28:46
Right, right.
28:47
Yeah.
28:48
So you're back in Lithuania, and you are depressed because
28:53
you're back in Lithuania.
28:55
Maybe you're feeling purposeless.
28:56
Who knows what it is?
28:57
Purposeless.
28:58
You know, what do you do?
28:59
Right.
28:59
Then I go to Scotland, you know, studied there.
29:02
Oh, that's right, Scotland.
29:03
There is a moment in Scotland, again, another m- that moment when you're like,
29:07
"Do I turn left or do I turn right?" Yep And again, it turned the wrong direction.
29:15
Well, you know.
29:16
I had to, you know, make a, like, final decision to start studying, and
29:20
everything in my body was saying, "No." And I wish… You know, I remember I had
29:26
a conversation on the phone with my mom.
29:27
Right.
29:27
And I told her, just a few weeks ago when we were talking, like,
29:31
"I wish you would just tell me, 'Don't do it. Just don't do it.'"
29:36
Why do you think you shouldn't have done it?
29:39
'Cause I was just… I, I was lost.
29:41
Yeah, you were.
29:42
Right.
29:42
I know, and it just… When you're lost and you're in kind of this
29:46
kind of survival mode, you like, you just grab onto anything.
29:48
Right.
29:48
Anything that will anchor you down and anything that give you some kind
29:52
of sense of, "All right, I'm here."
29:54
Right.
29:54
"I know what to do." Right.
29:56
Which I'm obviously don't know what I'm doing.
29:58
This is, this is who I am right now.
29:59
This is who I am right now.
30:01
Right.
30:01
Yeah.
30:01
Yeah.
30:01
And you know, there's a bunch of concepts of idea if I'm gonna
30:04
get my master's, yadi-ya, ya.
30:06
Right.
30:06
You know, all of these things, so.
30:07
What'd you study?
30:09
Public health.
30:10
Oh, okay.
30:10
Ugh.
30:11
Oh oh, no?
30:12
Okay.
30:12
No.
30:12
No, no, no.
30:13
I just didn't enjoy it.
30:13
I don't- Yeah … really enjoy academics after all.
30:16
I lo- I love studying, researching, you know, um, but academics, it's, it's
30:25
just a different- It is … animal.
30:27
Yeah.
30:27
You know?
30:27
Yeah.
30:28
You have to really have, like, a very, like, a very specific mindset in order
30:33
to stay there and be there and- Yeah
30:36
and I'm really bad at tests.
30:37
Bad.
30:38
Bad.
30:38
So bad.
30:40
Um, yeah, I can r- when I was in Korea, I lived in Korea for, like, two
30:43
years teaching English, and I was kind of aimless, and I just went there.
30:47
And, uh, I knew I had to leave 'cause I… people stayed there too long 'cause
30:51
it was just a good life and you're having fun with all these expats and stuff.
30:55
And, uh, and I was like, "Well, I'm either gonna go…" At the time, I was
30:58
really interested in Middle Eastern studies, and it was, like, Middle
31:01
Eastern studies or I'd always been documenting things my whole life.
31:03
I was really into film.
31:04
Mm-hmm.
31:05
And I kinda taught myself how to edit when I was there, so I was like, "Well,
31:07
film school or Middle Eastern studies?"
31:08
So I applied to both.
31:09
Mm-hmm.
31:10
And ended up going to film school and going into a lot of debt,
31:12
but that's a whole 'nother story.
31:14
Mm-hmm.
31:14
Uh, but, like, I'm… That was the right direction for me because, like, I look
31:19
back and I'm like, "I could never have done Middle Eastern studies." Yeah.
31:22
Jesus.
31:23
Like, finishing all those…
31:24
You have to read all these books, all these papers.
31:25
I- dude.
31:26
Yeah.
31:27
Yeah.
31:27
And film school was great because thir- it's not about tests or anything,
31:30
it's just about doing creative stuff, and it was- Yeah … yeah.
31:32
Yeah.
31:32
Yeah.
31:33
Remind me, though, uh, did you actually, after graduating, did that… was
31:38
your main occupation around, uh, film?
31:40
Yeah, no, I'm mostly an e- like, a video editor.
31:42
That was my last… my jobs for, you know.
31:45
I directed some stuff.
31:46
I had, like, sever- I made some short films y- like, when I was in New York.
31:50
Mm-hmm.
31:50
And they, they did well.
31:51
Um, uh, they were short films.
31:53
They did, they did well.
31:54
Mm-hmm.
31:54
But they're… Like, it's very hard to make films.
31:56
You need a lot of people and a lot of money.
31:57
Yeah.
31:58
Um, and, uh, yeah, and the last thing I made was really good but didn't do very
32:02
well for v- variety of reasons, and it was just like… I think I had a realization,
32:06
not to get too down the rabbit hole, but, like- And it's some part of this
32:10
podcast really is like, um, I'm- this last project I made, it was a web series.
32:16
Mm-hmm.
32:16
And, you know, it was really… it was fun to make, but again, we
32:19
were thinking about the future.
32:20
What's this gonna, who's gonna, who's gonna see this, right?
32:22
Mm-hmm.
32:22
Is this gonna get us a door open and whatever, you know?
32:25
And, uh, and it didn't, and it was surprising 'cause
32:27
everybody seemed to love it.
32:28
And then I think I had a realization where it's like the, the, the,
32:32
the, the joy has to come from the doing of the thing itself- Mm-hmm
32:35
not from the expected or hoping, hoped outcome, right?
32:38
Yeah.
32:38
It has to come from the experience of doing the actual thing.
32:42
Mm-hmm.
32:42
Uh, which brings me to the podcast, which is like, you know, if people
32:45
listen in, they don't listen again, Topo Chico, we will take your sponsorship.
32:49
But, like, for me, it's just, like, almost an excuse just to,
32:52
just to talk to people- Mm-hmm
32:53
and then to make something creative out of it.
32:55
Mm-hmm.
32:55
You know?
32:55
Yeah.
32:55
Um, and I'm enjoying it for the most part.
32:57
Mm-hmm.
32:58
You know?
32:58
Anyway, um- But can I say something?
33:02
Yeah.
33:02
Have you seen Brutalist?
33:03
I did.
33:04
Okay.
33:04
Do you remember the, her speech when she says it's not about the journey,
33:08
it's actually about the destination?
33:09
When she did the switch, yeah.
33:12
'Cause it's also about the context, you know?
33:14
Right.
33:15
For sure.
33:16
That was- I mean, the context that she was in and- For sure … not why
33:19
it was about the destination, yeah.
33:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:22
Yeah, that was an interesting film.
33:24
So you finished the public health.
33:27
Uh-huh.
33:28
And then?
33:30
And then I get even more depressed.
33:34
Oh, life.
33:34
Oh, life.
33:34
Life, life, life.
33:36
Yeah.
33:37
And, uh, and then I get, uh, go back home to Lithuania, like, okay,
33:42
summertime, I can stay, hang out.
33:44
It's fun.
33:45
Yeah.
33:46
And then I'm just gonna go back to the States and continue- Mm-hmm … something.
33:51
And then I meet a boy.
33:53
Mm. Oh, here we go.
33:54
Yeah.
33:54
Yeah.
33:55
That's what happens.
33:56
Yeah.
33:57
And I end up staying.
33:58
In Scotland.
34:00
In Lithuania.
34:00
Lithuania.
34:01
Yeah.
34:02
All right.
34:02
Yeah.
34:03
So, yeah, into six years- Wow … of relationships, yeah.
34:08
Wow.
34:09
But six years is a long time, like, that's good.
34:11
Yeah.
34:12
Yeah.
34:12
Mm-hmm.
34:14
Yeah, so, and then- Break up And how's- He's been- … the depression, like,
34:21
uh, I'm feeling like at some point we're getting to a place where we realize that
34:25
the depression is coming from inside and perhaps not in changing things around
34:29
you, but in, you know, changing- Yeah.
34:32
Yeah.
34:32
Yeah.
34:32
Right.
34:32
Mm-hmm.
34:33
Absolutely.
34:34
Right.
34:35
But the, the six years with the boyfriend were good?
34:38
Mm. Oh, no, no.
34:40
Oh, okay.
34:42
All right.
34:43
I like it.
34:43
Yeah.
34:43
Yeah, yeah.
34:44
I, um, I don't wanna go into details.
34:46
No, all right.
34:47
Let's, let's keep the- It's all right.
34:48
Right.
34:49
That would be another theme for the podcast.
34:51
Right.
34:51
Right, right.
34:52
Yeah.
34:52
Right.
34:52
Yeah.
34:53
Different ep- Mm-hmm … episode.
34:53
Next second episode.
34:54
I've learned a lot.
34:56
It was very interesting, uh, experience for me, uh, for,
35:01
yeah, for those relationships.
35:04
Open up a lot of doors for esoteric world.
35:08
They, they make you see yourself as well.
35:10
Like, I mean, I'm not sure… What do you mean by that, I guess is my question.
35:14
Oh, just the, the person that I was dating.
35:16
Mm-hmm.
35:17
Uh, just he opened a lot of doors of, of, of something I never considered.
35:24
Now you have to tell me what this… Tell me one of the doors.
35:26
Like tantra, for instance.
35:27
Oh, okay.
35:27
So he kinda opened your door- Yeah … the door to the, to the
35:29
yoga kind of world then, uh- Uh, yeah
35:32
okay … like something that is, you know, beyond a everyday life and just linearity
35:38
of- Right … past, present, future.
35:41
Right.
35:41
Right.
35:42
Different type of conversation.
35:44
Right.
35:44
Different way of spending time.
35:47
Yeah.
35:48
Different- It's funny how meeting just, like meeting a person kind of changes your
35:52
life in ways that you don't expect because you're introduced to this whole other way
35:55
of thinking that you didn't even- Yeah.
35:57
Yeah … right, wasn't even on your radar.
35:58
Uh-huh.
35:59
Right?
35:59
Mm-hmm.
36:00
Yeah.
36:00
So then through him or, uh… Keep going.
36:03
You're, you, you, six years with the situation- 'Cause you really wanna
36:06
learn about yoga, it seems like to me.
36:07
No, I mean, that's how I know you.
36:09
I'm just curious to know, I, I, I think I'm just curious about, like it's,
36:12
it's interesting to meet people who'd come from other places in the city.
36:17
You know what I mean?
36:17
Yeah.
36:17
Yeah, yeah.
36:18
And, and, and I enjoy the experience of being like a, um, a traveler
36:22
because I like feeling like a stranger.
36:23
Like- Mm … I don't know what it is about it, but feeling like a
36:25
foreigner in a foreign country.
36:26
Yeah.
36:26
I really enjoy that experience.
36:28
Um, so to me it's interesting too, 'cause Columbus is a very homogenous- Yeah
36:34
yeah, city.
36:35
Mm-hmm.
36:35
And so to come across a yoga teacher that was not from here was surprising to me.
36:41
Um- Yeah.
36:41
And actually like even teaching here, and I don't even know
36:44
many foreign, foreigners- Right.
36:46
No … in, in yoga studios.
36:47
No.
36:47
Yeah.
36:47
Yeah.
36:47
It's super, super white.
36:48
Mm-hmm.
36:48
Yeah.
36:49
Yeah.
36:50
Um, well, relationships wa- k- I kinda went back and forth.
36:54
I, I, I lived in, uh, London probably all together for maybe a year and a half- Okay
36:59
… or two years, something like that.
37:01
Um, and then, um, yeah, and then, uh, my family and I, we
37:05
opened a vegetarian bistro.
37:08
Oh, nice.
37:08
Mm-hmm.
37:09
And it was, it was-
37:13
It was, it was a fun experience, but, you know, when you're small business,
37:19
you have to really, like, you have to have a plan what you're going to do next.
37:22
Right.
37:23
Right.
37:24
And then if you're, you know, you're not doing the next
37:26
thing, it's just gonna kill you.
37:28
Yeah.
37:29
Was this in Lithuania?
37:30
Yeah.
37:30
Okay.
37:31
Yeah.
37:31
And then, uh, eventually I just, I, I just got exhausted.
37:35
Mm-hmm.
37:35
So it, it was kind of a, uh, the, the moment of getting exhausted from
37:40
relation, in the relationships- Uh-huh
37:42
and also, um, work.
37:45
And I had a very interesting encounter.
37:48
Um, let's call this person a healer.
37:51
Okay.
37:53
And they basically told me that, "Whatever you're doing, you, you gotta
37:57
stop 'cause you're, you know, you're gonna have consequences." And I knew
38:02
it because it was a lot of stress.
38:04
Okay.
38:04
Um, and a lot of just keep going, keep going, keep going.
38:08
Yeah, yeah.
38:08
And you're not sure where are we going, and you're like, "I don't
38:11
think I'm enjoying this moment.
38:13
Mm-hmm.
38:14
It's not bringing me joy.
38:15
I'd rather go to just destination." So that was the moment, and that
38:20
happened to me several times in life when I hit the point when we're done.
38:26
Yeah.
38:26
I packed my bags and I just went for three months to Norway so I can
38:31
decide what I'm going to do next.
38:33
All right.
38:33
And you- And that was a new chapter in my life.
38:36
How did you stumble upon the guy who gave you the, gave you the advice?
38:40
Or gave you, told you the- Through my, uh, boyfriend at the time.
38:44
Okay.
38:44
All right.
38:44
That checks out.
38:45
'Cause he was taking care of his mom, and I just went together, end up,
38:49
you know, getting a session as well.
38:51
Okay.
38:51
Yeah.
38:52
So it was a very health re- related, and I knew that.
38:55
Right.
38:55
It just, just a matter of time when something's gonna happen.
38:58
It's ironic that you were working in… You, oh, you were running a
39:01
vegetarian restaurant at the time when your… It was health-related.
39:04
Yeah.
39:04
Yeah.
39:05
Yeah, yeah.
39:05
Think about the yoga studios, though.
39:07
I hear it all the time.
39:08
Like what?
39:09
You know, studios, um, the, the, the business aspect of it and how
39:15
people are- Yeah … overworked and- Yeah … gotta really know
39:18
how to handle your stuff, you know?
39:20
So the, the, the paradox and- Uh-huh.
39:23
Mm-hmm … yeah.
39:24
'Cause it's gotta be, it's gotta be a money-making venture, but
39:26
also you're trying to be- A bench.
39:27
Yeah.
39:27
Yeah.
39:27
And then you're… Yeah, so there's… Yeah.
39:29
How do you walk that line?
39:30
Mm. Right.
39:31
Mm. And it does seem like the teacher training thing, it just seems like
39:36
it's so expensive and, like… I mean, I was gonna do it at one point-
39:39
Mm-hmm … but it was like $3,000.
39:41
And, like, I don't wanna be a yoga teacher, I just wanna go through the
39:45
philosophy and all that kind of thing.
39:46
Mm-hmm.
39:46
I just wanted to… But it was, it was way too much money for my
39:50
kind of, uh, um, for my… Yeah.
39:53
It was too much for me at the time.
39:54
Yeah.
39:55
Um, and I think I'm glad I didn't do it, frankly.
39:58
But the studio's gotta make money, so- Yeah … you know, you gotta do it.
40:02
Well, you know, everyone's doing for their own reason.
40:06
Mm-hmm.
40:06
Different reasons.
40:08
That's the first thing.
40:09
And I, I will con- I will disagree.
40:13
I think 3,000 for States, it's normal money.
40:18
No, I'm not saying it was crazy expensive for, like, a- Yeah
40:22
… teacher, teacher training at all.
40:23
No.
40:24
'Cause, like, I know the work.
40:25
There are a lot of work- Yeah, yeah, yeah … that's put behind the scenes
40:27
and- No, I wasn't, I wasn't suggesting it was expensive for teacher training.
40:31
Teacher training.
40:31
It was- It's for you.
40:32
For me.
40:32
Yeah, yeah.
40:32
Yeah.
40:33
Gotcha.
40:33
Gotcha.
40:33
Gotcha.
40:33
Okay.
40:33
Yeah.
40:34
I feel like they shouldn't call it teacher training almost.
40:36
I feel like they should call it, like, I don't know, deepen
40:39
your practice or something.
40:39
Mm. 'Cause I don't think most people are gonna go and be teachers.
40:42
They're not.
40:42
Yeah.
40:43
Yeah.
40:43
Yeah.
40:43
Some do, some not.
40:45
Right.
40:45
Right, right.
40:45
And it's kinda like this… It's just this is the evolution
40:49
of yoga in the first place.
40:51
You know, you just… It's, it cannot stay the same- Yeah … no matter what.
40:55
You do have the ancient wisdom, but some of it will just evolve as we're changing.
41:02
Yeah.
41:02
So it is probably we should call it something else now, but it is what it-
41:07
You mean the whole- The teacher training … the whole yoga thing or teacher training?
41:09
Yeah.
41:09
Right.
41:09
And the whole yoga probably is to be honest.
41:11
A new name for yoga?
41:11
Yeah.
41:11
Well, let's try to think of one.
41:14
Embodied practice or- Right … I don't know.
41:16
Yeah.
41:16
That's, that's… That doesn't have a ring to it.
41:17
Yoga's got a good two syllables, yoga.
41:19
Yeah, yoga.
41:20
Yeah.
41:21
It's pretty good.
41:21
But with the teacher training, uh, it's just, yeah, it's, it
41:25
just became available, accessible.
41:27
You know?
41:27
Right.
41:28
If you really think about it, at least, like, I can speak from my perspective or
41:33
the, the, the stories that I've heard.
41:36
Even, like, in '80s, '80s, '90s, like, in, in this Soviet, uh,
41:43
times, it wasn't… Like, you had to look for the information of yoga.
41:49
Like, it would be some scraps of copies of paper- Right … just given to you
41:56
underground in some basements- Mm … and people, like, secretly study and practice.
42:02
Huh.
42:02
You know?
42:03
So for a while it was not available.
42:04
Now it's available.
42:05
Now you can just, you know- It's everywhere.
42:07
It's everywhere.
42:08
Yeah.
42:09
When you were in Lithuania, were you, were you… Was there, were there yoga
42:12
studios and stuff like- Yeah, yeah.
42:12
Okay.
42:13
Yeah.
42:13
Yeah.
42:14
Yeah.
42:14
Yeah.
42:15
Studios, it was… I was practicing there more of a classic.
42:18
Right.
42:19
Classic- Right … uh, kind of.
42:21
You just… You're not very adjusted.
42:24
You just, you just practice.
42:26
Do you remember the first time you, you went, you did yoga?
42:29
I went to the gym.
42:30
I was here in the States in Columbus.
42:32
Oh, okay.
42:32
Yeah.
42:33
Yeah.
42:33
Yeah.
42:35
And, um, yeah, and then I just… I, I reached the point, I think it was,
42:39
like, around 25, 24, when I would be in the party and I would just- Ask myself,
42:47
"What's the point of everything?"
42:49
Yeah.
42:50
Like, yeah- Yeah … we're getting into that.
42:52
So I would just ask people random questions.
42:55
People like, "What are, what are you talking about?" So
42:58
I met- Have another drink.
42:59
What are you doing?
42:59
Yeah.
43:00
Yeah, yeah.
43:00
And eventually drink yourself into like- Right, and then to, yeah … you
43:02
know, like, "Yeah, let's go blah, blah."
43:04
Yeah, yeah.
43:05
And then the next morning you wake up like, "Wait a second." Y- yeah.
43:07
"Something is off here." Yeah.
43:09
Yeah.
43:10
And the thing is also was about a, uh, I took a, uh, Asian philosophy class- Okay
43:16
… in the OSU, and I think that was also already moving, grooving stuff for me.
43:22
Huh.
43:22
Yeah.
43:22
What, what about it do you, do you remember anything particular?
43:25
Um, j- I mean, just the, just a whole new way of looking at life.
43:32
Right.
43:33
You know?
43:33
Just, just that was fascinating and so novel for me.
43:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:39
So I think that was plenty on just, just kind of sit down with that and
43:44
contemplate and, you know- Right.
43:45
Right, right … try to understand.
43:47
Yeah.
43:47
Right.
43:49
Huh, interesting.
43:49
Mm-hmm.
43:50
So, um, you're, you're infant- you're in Norway, you're at the,
43:55
in the fj- by the fjords By the fjords … you're, you're work-
43:57
Yeah … what are you doing for work?
43:59
I was working in the hotel.
44:00
Okay, hotel.
44:01
Housekeeping, yeah.
44:02
Yeah.
44:02
Yeah.
44:02
I worked behind the front desk at the hotel in London.
44:05
Mm-hmm.
44:05
Yeah.
44:06
Didn't love it, but there was a crazy Turkish woman who was the
44:09
boss, and she literally was…
44:11
Yeah.
44:12
Well, London crazy enough for what it is, you know?
44:15
Yeah.
44:16
Yeah, yeah.
44:16
I mean, I liked her- It was fun … and she, she still, like,
44:18
follows me on Instagram, so that's- There you go … yeah, yeah.
44:21
You still keep that connection.
44:23
Yeah.
44:23
We got that real strong bond still.
44:24
There you go.
44:25
Yeah.
44:25
Yeah.
44:25
Talk about the old days a lot.
44:26
Remember that time you yelled at me for moving the boxes?
44:28
Yeah.
44:29
Um- Oh, those are sweet times, though.
44:31
Oh, they were.
44:32
What, what are they- How old were you?
44:33
How old were you?
44:34
I'm 51.
44:35
No, how old were you when you were in London?
44:36
At the hotel?
44:37
Yeah.
44:37
26, 27. Okay.
44:39
Sometime.
44:40
Yeah, so- Yeah … good times.
44:42
Yeah, it was good.
44:42
I was not in a good…
44:43
I, I didn't know what was going on with me or I was just
44:47
kind of in a weird, you know?
44:49
I hadn't- Mm-hmm … yeah.
44:50
But I did enjoy it.
44:51
Yeah, I got to travel over Europe and stuff, and that was fun.
44:55
Um- Yeah … yeah.
44:57
Yeah, it was good.
44:57
It's kind of like a work that you just don't have to invest
45:01
too much of your attention.
45:03
Right.
45:03
You clock in and you clock out, and then you go and, you know, have fun.
45:06
And most of the time I was just, like, on the computer-
45:08
Yeah … 'cause it was still… Yeah.
45:09
Yeah.
45:09
It was exciting.
45:10
Yeah.
45:10
Um, it is interesting, though, that growing up in Lithuania, did you
45:14
get… You, I mean, you got to see a lot of Europe, like, that's where you
45:16
traveled probably, right, when you went?
45:18
Some.
45:18
People expect, but I didn't really travel that much.
45:21
Okay.
45:22
I think I'm catching up now.
45:23
Oh, okay.
45:23
Every time I go home, I'm like- Right … we're going
45:25
there, there, there, and there.
45:26
Yeah.
45:27
I just end up staying longer in places, so that was just a different
45:31
experience- Right … because one thing when you just go there and stay
45:33
for a week or two, but you actually immerse yourself into, oh, this is
45:38
what commute like is in London- Yeah
45:41
every single day- Yeah … from zone one to two to… You know?
45:44
And then this is, this is, ah, this is how you spend half of
45:49
your life in London underground.
45:52
That was the moment when I realized this city is eating me, and I cannot… Yeah,
45:58
I, I, I don't live my life anymore.
46:00
The subway?
46:01
Yeah.
46:01
Or the- And just the city itself
46:03
tube?
46:03
Yeah.
46:03
The tube, the just, just, you know, the commute, the just
46:08
from point A to point B. Yeah.
46:10
I lived in the hotel that I worked at, so it was great.
46:13
I just walked upstairs.
46:14
Yeah.
46:14
Yeah.
46:14
Yeah.
46:14
But as a result, I didn't see as much of the city as I would have because I was
46:17
always stuck in a certain neighborhood.
46:18
Yeah.
46:19
But, but yeah.
46:20
Um- Gosh, life is a lot about redundancy, isn't it?
46:24
It sure is.
46:25
Mm-hmm.
46:26
Yeah.
46:28
So I appreciate this, uh, bringing together just to
46:32
kind of talk about it Yeah.
46:35
How often… I was talking to a friend and I was, this is a couple months ago, and I
46:39
was like, "How often have, when's the last time you just sat down with somebody and
46:42
talked to them for, like, an hour or two?"
46:44
Yeah.
46:44
And he's like, "Uh, I don't actually remember. I mean, we had some
46:47
beers last week, and, you know, you talk, but it's not, like, a
46:50
focused… I don't know." Yeah.
46:51
It seems like a thing that's going away, and I think that it's kind of gone away.
46:55
COVID did a lot to help it kind of, um, but even before that, I think
46:59
it kind of was starting to go away, and I think it's community too.
47:03
Like, you could go on a whole trail about why we're losing the, uh, ability to,
47:08
like, have conversations- Mm-hmm … and why, but, like, it's unfortunate.
47:12
Mm-hmm.
47:12
You know?
47:13
It's a loss of community is what we've lost.
47:14
Yeah.
47:15
And it makes me sad.
47:16
Mm-hmm.
47:17
So- Norway.
47:18
Norway.
47:19
Norway, um, beautiful time.
47:22
Beautiful time.
47:23
Sure.
47:24
Gosh, amazing time.
47:27
So good.
47:27
Made you happy?
47:29
Ah, it just, like, switched something inside Mm-hmm.
47:34
Like, the place or the experience in the place?
47:40
The experience in the place.
47:41
People, a lot of nomads there.
47:44
Mm-hmm.
47:44
People just kind of go from one place to the next, seasonal jobs.
47:48
Mm-hmm.
47:48
Um, you see cult- like, you know, you see so many different cultures.
47:54
Right.
47:55
All the cruise ships that just- Oh, right, right, right … you know?
47:59
Yeah.
47:59
Yeah.
48:00
It's, uh… And then I, I also got very lucky to get there when it was, it
48:06
was, like, un- anomalically hot summer.
48:09
Which means how hot was it?
48:11
Like, it was hot as, probably as it is now here.
48:14
Oh, wow.
48:15
Yeah.
48:15
So for Norway, it's very unusual.
48:18
Right, right.
48:18
It's usually opposite, and it's quite rainy summertime, and- Right … you
48:22
don't really get too many sunny days, and that was just three months
48:26
straight up sun, and you hike and you, you know, swim in the fjord.
48:32
Mm. We're swimming in the fjord.
48:33
Mm-hmm, yeah.
48:34
Come on.
48:35
Yeah.
48:35
You know?
48:37
Yeah.
48:37
So it's, uh, it was a pure summer.
48:40
Oh, that's nice.
48:40
It was a summer, like, European summer experience.
48:43
It was the movie summer.
48:45
Yes.
48:46
Right.
48:46
All right … totally.
48:46
All right.
48:48
Yeah.
48:49
Eventually, I, uh, uh, 'cause, um, m- my partner, he has, um, Norwegian blood,
48:55
and then, uh- Okay … we went there back just, you know- You went back … I
48:59
want, yeah, I wanted to, him to see it.
49:01
Okay.
49:02
Yeah.
49:02
The same place?
49:03
Same place also.
49:04
Did you, you didn't meet him there?
49:05
No.
49:06
Okay.
49:06
No, no, no.
49:07
Right.
49:07
No.
49:07
Strange though that you ended up, after that Norway thing, that you ended up
49:12
finding a partner that has Norwegian- Yeah … strange, like- Uh-huh … you know.
49:16
Yeah.
49:16
Yeah.
49:16
Hey, everything's- Yeah, if you look at it the right way, for sure.
49:19
Ah.
49:20
Yeah.
49:20
Everything is.
49:21
Yeah, and then some days I'm like, "No, everything's…" You know?
49:25
If you're look- you can't see me, but- … I can describe with- Yeah, some days-
49:30
… with these little frantic gestures with my hands … everything feels off.
49:31
Yeah.
49:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:33
Yeah.
49:33
Yeah.
49:33
Mm-hmm.
49:33
Yeah.
49:34
And that's when they say if it feels off, you just pause, slow
49:37
down, and just kind of, you know.
49:40
Yeah, see, that's the hard part for me, that's what way, the
49:42
slowing down part is the hard part.
49:43
Mm. Yeah.
49:45
Yeah.
49:45
Mm. Working on it, working on it.
49:48
Um, it's never too late.
49:51
No.
49:51
Um, so N- after Norway, where did you go then?
49:57
Um, I'm gonna skip part of the story because that's when there was
50:01
another relationships happening- Okay
50:03
and, but I don't wanna have this conversation become
50:06
about the relationships.
50:07
Yeah, no, that's all right.
50:09
But that was the moment of, for me, just very transformational
50:13
because I met somebody.
50:14
Okay.
50:15
And, uh, um, and because I met somebody, I just end up going, whoa, you know,
50:23
you're just going back and forth, and then you, you know, you change your mind
50:27
to stay in Europe, not go to the States.
50:30
So I just end up going back to Lithuania.
50:32
Right You know, went back to Norway again and, you know,
50:36
continued the relationships.
50:38
And then eventually, um, eventually pandemic happened.
50:44
Mm. February 14th, I think, I came here to the States- Just in time … for this,
50:50
with a business trip, and, uh, we had to extend the trip because, uh, none, all,
50:56
like, the paperwork wasn't done on time.
50:59
So we extended my trip, and that's exactly when everything started to shut down.
51:07
And you're, you're in Columbus?
51:08
Yeah.
51:10
It trapped you.
51:12
Yeah.
51:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:13
I know why.
51:14
I, I, like, I already did my personal work and understood what was
51:19
happening- Okay … for me at the time.
51:21
Right.
51:21
So, uh, but it was just interesting that, oh, it's not happening just to me.
51:28
Right.
51:28
It's happening for me and the rest of the world, you know?
51:32
Right.
51:33
So everyone's, like, learning something for themselves.
51:38
Yeah.
51:38
Right?
51:39
Yeah.
51:40
Yeah.
51:41
And then my- Yeah … my, uh, my, my ticket was, my ticket back to Lithuania
51:45
was February 28th, which is my birthday.
51:48
Right.
51:49
So I'm just, like… And yeah, I never, I never went back.
51:52
So the gentleman you were dating just was still in Norway at the time?
51:57
Uh, it was a woman.
51:58
A woman, okay.
51:59
Mm-hmm.
51:59
Um, sorry to assume.
52:00
Mm-hmm.
52:01
Uh, she was in Norway at the time?
52:04
Um, she was in, in her home country.
52:08
Okay.
52:08
Yeah.
52:09
Okay.
52:09
Yeah.
52:09
So that ha- that's how that ended, because you got stuck in
52:12
Columbus 'cause of the pandemic?
52:14
Yeah.
52:14
Okay.
52:15
Yeah.
52:16
Wow.
52:17
So then you've been here ever since.
52:19
And I've been here ever since.
52:21
COVID did it.
52:22
COVID did it, yeah.
52:24
It was very logical to come here because I already had some good-
52:27
Right … friends- Right … you know, mm, from back in the day.
52:30
And, um, it wa- you know, I knew the city, so.
52:34
But, yeah, but still it's, like, odd to come to a place just thinking you're
52:37
visiting and then end, ending up having…
52:39
You know?
52:40
Deep down inside, there probably was many times when I was thinking,
52:45
"I'm, I'm… I probably need to, you know, go back to the States- All
52:49
right … one way or another." And then?
52:51
And sometimes the life, it does it for you.
52:52
Yeah.
52:53
Yeah.
52:53
You know, like, you know, while you're thinking here, we're gonna do the thing.
52:57
We're gonna force your- Yeah … force your hand.
52:58
Yeah.
52:59
Exactly, so.
53:00
And then there was another mess, you know- Right … being here and, uh, after
53:06
10 years not being here, no credit card, no, um, what is it, the credit score.
53:13
Right.
53:13
Right.
53:13
No, no, no place to stay.
53:15
You know, you just kind of go, go, go, go, go.
53:18
So what did you do?
53:20
Uh, hustled.
53:23
But I stayed with my friend and then, um, and then I quickly found my partner.
53:30
Okay.
53:30
Yeah.
53:31
We kind of, like, we were connected.
53:32
We know each other for many years.
53:34
Oh, okay.
53:34
Over 15 years.
53:35
So you knew him from the last time you were, your first- Yeah.
53:37
Oh, wow.
53:37
I knew him from the very first time.
53:39
Oh, that's crazy.
53:39
Yeah.
53:39
Yeah.
53:39
Mm-hmm.
53:40
Yeah.
53:40
Yeah.
53:40
So it just, yeah, happened.
53:42
Oh, I like that.
53:43
Yeah.
53:44
Um, and when did the… Did you start getting into the… I'm gonna go into,
53:49
like, the yoga- Mm … somatic training.
53:51
Mm-hmm.
53:51
All that kind of stuff.
53:52
Um, when did you start getting into, like, heavy into that?
53:56
Was that in Col- Like, when… Just was that in this last Columbus jaunt, or
54:00
was it before that that you started too?
54:01
Columbus 2008, 2009.
54:04
Okay.
54:04
Yeah.
54:05
So that was the time when, um, I was asking myself a lot of questions
54:10
that I couldn't get answers.
54:12
And I, uh, got, uh, very sick for almost two weeks with a high fever.
54:19
Mm-hmm.
54:19
And then one day I woke up, it was like, um, Friday night, 8:00 PM.
54:25
Mm. And I'm like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the teacher training.
54:28
I don't have money, but I'm going to do teacher training." And I f-
54:35
found a teacher here in Columbus.
54:38
I emailed her, and I start studying In the next couple months, I think,
54:44
or something like that Was it just regular yoga or was it the- Hatha,
54:50
ashtanga and hatha Yeah, yeah.
54:52
Yeah.
54:52
Okay.
54:53
Yeah.
54:53
Yeah, I did, like, a whole thing.
54:55
I was fasting for a week while, and, you know, studying, and I was
55:00
just asking too many questions.
55:03
And then you ended up actually teaching.
55:04
I didn't, actually.
55:05
Oh, all right.
55:06
Fair enough.
55:06
Yeah.
55:07
Right.
55:07
So I, uh, finished the teacher training, and then it was very
55:11
quick when I got my degree.
55:13
Mm-hmm.
55:14
And that's when I'm like, "Okay, I'm done here.
55:17
I need to go b- home." Okay.
55:19
And I didn't teach for several years, and I barely practiced
55:29
Um, I lost the flavor of yoga 'cause it was not fixing my problem.
55:34
Oh, yeah.
55:35
Yeah.
55:36
Yeah.
55:36
'Cause I was putting a lot of ef- like, you know, expectations.
55:40
Yoga will, will, uh, help me.
55:43
It's funny how that works.
55:44
It's like with meditation too.
55:45
I feel like I can't necessarily… I don't notice that it's working
55:49
until I notice that it's working- Mm … if you know what I mean.
55:52
Um, and by working, I mean that I'm actually able to have some distance
55:55
between myself and my thoughts and whatever, et cetera, et cetera.
55:58
But, like, it's one of the things that I struggle to maintain as
56:01
a practice sometimes because the effects aren't immediately
56:04
apparent, as opposed to, like- Yeah
56:06
you know what I mean?
56:07
Like, I know that if I do it, it'll be good for me in the long run because I
56:10
feel like, to me anyway, it's like a very… It's, it's, it's a path, right?
56:14
It's not the thing.
56:15
Yeah.
56:16
But, um, and I think probably the same with yoga too 'cause, like,
56:19
I'll do it where I'll do it, like, every day for, like, months- Yeah
56:22
and then suddenly I'll just be like… Yeah.
56:25
Yeah.
56:25
Yeah.
56:25
I mean, you have to trust the, um, the tool.
56:30
Right.
56:30
You gotta trust the tool.
56:33
And if you don't know how to use it, and if your life, in a way,
56:37
is messy, you know, it's, it's, it's always implicit and explicit.
56:45
You cannot yoga your way in… Y- you cannot, by practicing yoga, solve the
56:51
problems that on the everyday life.
56:53
You still need to address them.
56:55
Yeah.
56:56
For sure.
56:57
You still gotta eat.
56:58
You know, you still gotta eat.
57:00
You st- you still have to show up- Right … for whatever that,
57:03
you know, whatever that is.
57:04
Right.
57:06
So and that's when in… It's not just inside and, you know, not just… No.
57:14
You, you fi- fix your stuff and practice yoga basically.
57:20
For me, it's part of it.
57:21
For me, it's part of fixing the stuff.
57:23
It's all part and package, like- Yeah … fixing me and-
57:25
Mm-hmm … and those all, yeah.
57:27
Um, and what, uh, uh, the… So I have no idea, and I've always
57:31
wondered, what is somatic therapy that, um, that you've been doing?
57:35
Mm. 'Cause Emily mentioned, I think she did a session and she really liked it.
57:38
Mm-hmm.
57:38
And I was… Yeah.
57:39
Yeah.
57:40
Well, somatic therapy came to my life, uh, after I entered the space of dance
57:49
and movement therapy in Lithuania.
57:51
Okay.
57:52
So I did the yoga.
57:53
I went… You know, that's when I met my, uh, at that time boyfriend.
57:58
And that's when I started getting into all different kind of practices.
58:02
Mm-hmm.
58:02
And Lithuania full of that.
58:04
Very esoteric, very pagan.
58:07
Uh, you can find anything basically.
58:09
Huh.
58:10
Mm-hmm.
58:10
Wonder why that is.
58:12
Good me- like a, a little mecca for, for this stuff.
58:15
You know, we have a big festival that, you know, summertime goes for,
58:20
I can't remember, 10 or, or t- 10 days or two weeks, and they bring
58:24
all practitioners from all over.
58:27
Huh.
58:28
Mm-hmm.
58:28
Why do you think that is?
58:29
In, like Lithuania just, it seems very somewhat random.
58:33
I think Lithuania is spiritual.
58:36
Oh, yeah?
58:36
Mm-hmm.
58:37
There is something about it, just the way… A kind of paganism I think, uh,
58:42
teaches you a little bit of that, is that, you know, you worship nature.
58:46
Huh.
58:47
You worship seasons.
58:49
Right.
58:49
You worship time
58:53
Um, the way it changes, you know, you, um… Yeah.
58:58
So the relationship with environment- Right … is- Right … you know?
59:03
Yeah.
59:03
Yeah.
59:03
Yeah.
59:04
More intimate- For sure … I would say.
59:06
Yeah.
59:06
So, and, um, yeah, I don't remember how I got into this dance and
59:11
movement therapy, but I entered the space, and it just cracked me open.
59:16
Mm-hmm.
59:17
It was just instant.
59:19
Something just that was like another, things are just not gonna be the same.
59:23
Huh.
59:23
And they weren't.
59:26
The movement, the expression, the vulnerability in the
59:29
group of people was just
59:32
Insane What, what is it, if you don't mind me… I'm, I'm ignorant of what
59:37
somatic yoga, or what somatic therapy actually is So somatic therapy is,
59:41
like, umbrella term Okay Right?
59:43
So there is many different modalities Okay Dance and movement therapy is considered
59:47
to be somatic because it works bottom to top Okay So it's a body-oriented
59:52
bottom-to-top approach Okay So rather than thinking through it- Right … you're
59:58
feeling, sensing through it Okay You're working with the nervous system, with,
1:00:02
uh, the body, sensations, emotions.
1:00:06
Um, the inquiry happens through the body- Right … with the body
1:00:14
That's a thing I struggle with.
1:00:15
My therapist is always like, "How does it feel?" Like, I'm like, "I'm upset."
1:00:18
"How does it… But how does it feel in your body?" Mm-hmm And I, and I,
1:00:21
you know, I've started thinking more about that just because she's… But
1:00:24
it's just not something that comes naturally to me Mm-hmm But really all
1:00:27
emotions are just feelings in your body.
1:00:28
Like, that's, I think, where they all- Mm-hmm I don't know the science
1:00:31
on that, but you know what I mean?
1:00:32
Mm-hmm Um, but yeah, it makes sense Mm-hmm.
1:00:36
Yeah I wonder what… Yeah, I should try it.
1:00:39
We- That would be good for me … we can talk about it more.
1:00:40
I can explain you.
1:00:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah Unless it goes into this conversation, uh, why would
1:00:46
it be so hard for you to feel it in the first place, and, uh- Right.
1:00:49
Of course … how you can, you know, slowly practice your way into it- Mm
1:00:53
… just like you do it in mi- mindfulness and yoga and stuff Mm. Right Yeah Right Yeah.
1:00:58
Yeah Yeah He's smiling right now.
1:01:05
Thank you for describing.
1:01:07
No video.
1:01:07
No video.
1:01:08
Um, how you feel about Columbus now?
1:01:12
You've been here for a total of what, now eight, nine, 15, 14
1:01:15
years total, something like that?
1:01:17
In total Oh, yeah.
1:01:19
Altogether- Right … probably it's going to, like, 13 years
1:01:21
or something Right Yeah.
1:01:22
I mean, I'm… There is many times I'm grateful because this is when
1:01:27
I actually was able to go back to teaching yoga and, you know, teaching
1:01:33
the way I'm teaching right now.
1:01:36
You know, C- Columbus definitely gave me that, uh, opportunity to do many
1:01:42
mistakes Right And especially teaching after pandemic Right Um, and, um, yeah.
1:01:49
And so and then also starting my own practice as a somatic therapist.
1:01:53
Mm-hmm And then now it's the time when I know that I'm going to
1:01:58
be gone soon Oh, you're leaving?
1:02:01
Yeah Oh, where you, where you going?
1:02:02
I have no plan, but we're going Oh, all right This is it How much…
1:02:06
When do you think you're gonna go?
1:02:09
Oh, m- there are conversations.
1:02:12
Okay.
1:02:12
All right.
1:02:12
Yeah, so- Right … like, like, you know, sometimes you don't wanna say it
1:02:16
out loud, so you don't wanna ruin it.
1:02:18
Right, right, right.
1:02:19
Yeah.
1:02:19
Right, right.
1:02:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:02:20
Who knows when this will air?
1:02:20
You might already be gone.
1:02:22
Yeah.
1:02:22
What's that?
1:02:23
Yeah, yeah.
1:02:23
Who knows when this will actually be on the, you know?
1:02:25
I'll be like- You might already be gone by then … "Hey." Yeah, yeah.
1:02:26
"Come over and visit for part two." Right, right.
1:02:28
Well, it depends on where you end up at.
1:02:29
End up, yeah.
1:02:30
Oh, no.
1:02:30
Wherever I go, it's gonna be a good place.
1:02:32
Right.
1:02:33
In the States, you're thinking, or somewhere else in the-
1:02:35
Maybe States, maybe not.
1:02:37
Exciting.
1:02:37
Yeah.
1:02:38
Yeah.
1:02:40
Time for a change.
1:02:41
Mm. And your partner's down with it?
1:02:44
I mean, he has no choice but No, he is down.
1:02:49
Right, right, right.
1:02:49
He would love to.
1:02:50
He's like, um, it's time, you know, for him as well.
1:02:53
Yeah, you gotta at some point actually get out of Columbus.
1:02:56
It… You know, if only to come back, but still.
1:03:00
Hey, if I would be right now in a place when I wanna have children- Oh, for sure.
1:03:06
Yeah … you know, like, if I would have a very specific intention, I would do this.
1:03:12
Yes.
1:03:12
I know why, and that's the reason, 'cause, you know, I know how
1:03:16
other parts of the States are.
1:03:19
That would make sense.
1:03:20
But I'm not.
1:03:21
Yeah.
1:03:21
So why?
1:03:22
You know?
1:03:23
Yeah.
1:03:23
And that's all it really is.
1:03:24
It is very… I do.
1:03:27
It's like I moved from New York where n- you know, it's fine to be
1:03:31
single at f- 51 and have no kids.
1:03:33
Yeah.
1:03:33
It's kind of normal almost to here where, like, almost all my friends mo-
1:03:36
a lot of my friends anyway have kids and a family and all these things.
1:03:40
Mm-hmm.
1:03:40
And it's, you know, it's just a different way of, of… You know, it, it, it's not a
1:03:46
great place to be s- single and childless because it, and, and in your 50s,
1:03:51
just because it's not… I don't know.
1:03:52
Yeah.
1:03:53
Um- Just go somewhere else.
1:03:54
Yeah.
1:03:54
Gather, find a remote job, and go somewhere else-
1:03:57
Yeah … where you can… Yeah.
1:03:58
Yeah.
1:03:58
Mm-hmm.
1:03:59
'Cause I don't wanna… Yeah, yeah.
1:04:01
Mm-hmm.
1:04:02
Or maybe I'll meet somebody here and then end up m- having a family.
1:04:05
Then I'll be like- … "But I don't wanna do that, though," so.
1:04:09
I've also been talking about, like, getting a jo- like, a remote job for
1:04:12
so long now that I feel like if I, if this is, uh, two years from now
1:04:15
or five years from now, if I'm still talking about it, it's probably…
1:04:17
Yeah.
1:04:18
Yeah.
1:04:18
Yeah.
1:04:18
I'll delete that part.
1:04:19
Well, you know, we need to sit down and be honest with ourselves, and
1:04:23
are we doing something about that?
1:04:26
'Cause we can get really stuck in the place where we just talk about
1:04:30
it, talk about it, talk about it.
1:04:31
Oh, yeah.
1:04:32
Do the thing.
1:04:33
Yeah.
1:04:33
Whatever that is.
1:04:34
And I was just reminded, uh, the other day, I was longing for that my younger
1:04:41
self that was just doing random things.
1:04:45
You know, we, and we just talked about it, and we just touched
1:04:49
the tip of the iceberg, you know?
1:04:51
Right.
1:04:51
Just a quick one, but I'm like, "I miss her. What, what
1:04:56
the fuck happened?" You know?
1:04:58
Right.
1:04:58
I wanna go back and become a little bit more honest and a little bit more
1:05:02
raw and, and just do it, you know?
1:05:06
'Cause, you know, for me it's not anymore about destination point because
1:05:10
I know exactly what the destination is.
1:05:13
Yeah, I think it's, for me it's like- Forcing myself to
1:05:16
get out of my comfort zone.
1:05:17
Mm. Like, I feel like we- it's… The older I get, I don't know about
1:05:19
everybody, but I think most people as they get older, you get very stuck
1:05:22
in routine and things like this.
1:05:23
Mm-hmm.
1:05:23
And it becomes harder to wanna, like, do new things, all these other…
1:05:26
So I feel like in my life, the comfort zone outside of that has been where
1:05:31
all the good stuff always happens.
1:05:33
Yeah, exactly.
1:05:34
So I almost make a deliberate effort just to do that because what else is life
1:05:37
for aside from- Exactly … you know?
1:05:39
And it's really, it's definitely, it's easy to just get calcified and, and, yeah.
1:05:45
It's easy to not- Mm … do stuff.
1:05:47
Mm. It's real easy.
1:05:48
I've noticed that myself, and again, I really wanna blame this on Columbus,
1:05:55
but there would be a moment when I just cannot get out of the house.
1:05:58
Yeah.
1:05:58
You know?
1:05:59
Just can't.
1:05:59
Like, dude, like, what's happening?
1:06:02
Yeah, and, so I spent the last… I worked remotely for the last, I don't know,
1:06:06
three, God, three or four years now.
1:06:09
Um, and I'm just here in my house by myself.
1:06:12
Mm-hmm.
1:06:12
And it started to drive me, like, legitimately crazy because it's
1:06:15
just, like, I, I, I'm, you know, not interacting with human beings.
1:06:19
It's just like… And it wouldn't, I wouldn't wanna go back to an office,
1:06:22
but it was also just like, yeah.
1:06:25
And I thought about doing this many times when I had that job because I was
1:06:28
like, "Well, that'd be a wee way to, like, at least interact with people."
1:06:30
Yeah.
1:06:31
But better late than never, I guess.
1:06:32
Yeah.
1:06:33
Um, but yeah.
1:06:35
Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't good, the working remotely thing.
1:06:38
Mm-hmm.
1:06:39
And it was politics too, which is not good for the brain at all.
1:06:42
Yeah.
1:06:43
Yeah.
1:06:43
Yeah.
1:06:44
And it was post-pandemic, pandemic, post-pandemic.
1:06:46
Yeah, yeah.
1:06:48
It, it, it, I mean, we think, you know, that we're in the same place.
1:06:54
We're not.
1:06:54
We're just never gonna be the same.
1:06:56
Oh, yeah.
1:06:57
No.
1:06:57
Yeah.
1:06:57
No.
1:06:58
I think that bet- between the pandemic and the internet, I think
1:07:02
that there's something cracked, and I think that, I don't know how it
1:07:07
fixes itself, but there's something kind of cracked in the world now,
1:07:10
and it's… And I can't describe it or put a finger on it, but it's a
1:07:15
result of too much information- Yeah
1:07:17
and, um, too much stimulus and all these different things, and this is
1:07:21
why we have, you know- Yeah … Donald Trump and all the other bad
1:07:24
people- Yeah … doing bad things.
1:07:26
Yeah.
1:07:27
Yeah.
1:07:27
Of course, there's always bad people doing bad things.
1:07:29
It's just not always been so visible.
1:07:32
Everything's changing.
1:07:33
Yeah.
1:07:34
And the faster we just get over ourselves, the easier it will become, literally.
1:07:41
So everything is changes, changes in the way.
1:07:44
Nothing stay the same, you know?
1:07:47
We cannot also sit and, like, say they-
1:07:52
And us Oh, I agree totally with that.
1:07:54
Yeah We're still part of the- Yeah … whole experience- Yeah … whether
1:07:57
it's just America or the whole world, you know, it's, it's, you know?
1:08:03
Yeah.
1:08:04
I do feel like there are friendlier places to be though.
1:08:07
Like- Yeah … I, I was in Mexico City, and it felt, the vibe felt lighter.
1:08:12
Mm-hmm You know?
1:08:13
Mm-hmm.
1:08:13
Um, and maybe it was just 'cause I was a tourist or a foreigner in
1:08:17
a foreign land, but it just felt- Yeah … I had a friend who came from
1:08:20
New York to stay with me for, like, a week, and he lives in Brooklyn.
1:08:24
And he was like, "You know, when I walked down the street in Brooklyn,
1:08:26
like, there's always one person who will scowl at me or something- Mm-hmm
1:08:29
or give me a…" And he's like, "I don't get any of that here." And
1:08:31
I was like, "Oh yeah, that's true.
1:08:33
There's not a lot of-" Mm … "like, negative energy on the streets
1:08:35
or whatever." Mm. I mean, there's occasionally, sure.
1:08:37
But, um, yeah, bad vibes.
1:08:41
Mm-hmm.
1:08:42
Anyway, who knows?
1:08:44
Guatemala, though.
1:08:45
Have you been to Guatemala?
1:08:46
No.
1:08:46
That's where I wanna go, to Guatemala.
1:08:47
No.
1:08:48
Yeah.
1:08:48
No.
1:08:49
Central America and stuff.
1:08:50
Mm-hmm.
1:08:51
Yeah.
1:08:53
Yeah.
1:08:53
Those places, I think, also have-
1:08:57
A longstanding culture to back them up Yeah You know?
1:09:02
Yeah So it's, there is something about that that just either that's devotion or
1:09:11
the, the culture itself, the interaction with families, between families,
1:09:17
with elders, and, um, I think it's important Yeah, I, I don't disagree.
1:09:23
Yeah.
1:09:23
I do think that there's a particular thing in America where it's, like, the idea of
1:09:28
the American dream versus what's actually the reality in America right now, which is
1:09:31
not that great Mm-hmm I mean, it's better than a lot of places, but for a lot of
1:09:34
people, they're, they're not doing well at all Mm-hmm And I feel like that's why…
1:09:39
And I think it, it's a, it's like a circle, right?
1:09:42
It's like the idea of America running into the, the reality of America, and it's
1:09:46
kind of circling the… Something like that Roman Empire had a downfall True,
1:09:52
and it was because they went bankrupt What's happening now, yeah I know.
1:09:58
I know.
1:09:58
That's just what I'm saying It's, you know, if you really think from
1:10:00
or step aside and just really look at the way nature works, the way, the
1:10:06
way seasons change, the way everything revolves and then changes, and that's
1:10:12
what I was saying about the change.
1:10:14
It will change Oh, yeah.
1:10:16
Yeah Do we have to wake up every morning and still deal with certain things?
1:10:20
Absolutely.
1:10:21
Is it uncomfortable?
1:10:22
Absolutely Or do we have to deal with them?
1:10:25
That's a question that I have a lot, though.
1:10:26
Like, I'll read the news, but am I dealing with it?
1:10:29
Is it doing anything?
1:10:30
Yeah Like, I honestly…
1:10:31
Like, maybe it's 'cause I worked in politics, but, like, th- I don't have
1:10:34
a lot of, like, anxiety or, like, anger about what's going on in the world,
1:10:40
what's going on- Mm-hmm … in the, in the country, because it doesn't do anything.
1:10:43
My anxiety's not gonna change anything.
1:10:45
Mm-hmm My, my worry's not gonna change anything.
1:10:47
Yeah.
1:10:47
In fact, it's probably what they want, right?
1:10:48
It's probably, like, winning for them- Mm-hmm … in a way for you to sit
1:10:51
there and be anxious about things.
1:10:53
And but then the question becomes is when does it start
1:10:56
to personally affect me, right?
1:10:58
Yeah Because, like, right now, me and most of my friends, w- we haven't
1:11:02
been in a profound way- Mm-hmm
1:11:03
affected.
1:11:04
But I think if it, when, if and when it starts to truly, like, affect
1:11:07
me and my friends, that's when your perspective changes on the whole
1:11:11
thing Mm-hmm Yeah Yeah Because right now it's just anxiety or whatever.
1:11:15
It's just posting on Instagram or whatever people are doing to- Yeah, it's
1:11:19
a, you know, it's a little discomfort Sure Yeah, and life is about, you know,
1:11:25
it's uncomfortable often And people wanna be angry at something Right
1:11:31
People are addicted to anger And fear Yeah Yeah A drama addicted, I would
1:11:37
say Yeah, yeah It's a drama addicted.
1:11:41
Like, I wanna see some drama.
1:11:43
That gives me that rush Right.
1:11:47
Right You know?
1:11:49
Whether it's the, whatever that is, whether it's the angry stuff- Yeah
1:11:53
… fearful stuff, or just s- somebody had a bad day or whatever, whatever.
1:11:58
Mm. It's a drama addiction.
1:12:00
I- It's, it's a nervous system that runs on sympathetic Right To survival, you
1:12:07
know, mode, and it's, you know, if, if, if your system is on this mode, you will
1:12:14
be looking for stuff like that Sure.
1:12:16
Then you got cute kittens on the internet too, though.
1:12:18
That's always nice.
1:12:19
And that's what you do.
1:12:20
Yeah You go, you go, you go, you kinda like, uh, feed your sympathetic, and then
1:12:24
you go to the kittens, and then you feed your parasympathetic, and you just ride
1:12:28
the wave Right, right, right Yeah Then you go take yoga, and then, you know, whatever
1:12:35
Um, did you just teach yourself how to do that Instagram content you're doing?
1:12:39
'Cause as a video editor, I'm like, "That's solid." You're like, like, I'm
1:12:42
like, "Oh, well done." Like, I'm not trying to… But, like, it's, like,
1:12:45
well edited- Thank you … and cleverly, like, yeah, put in- Put together Yeah,
1:12:48
really cool, yeah Yeah, teaching myself.
1:12:50
Do you use, like, do you, do you use the editor in the app or?
1:12:52
Like, just CapCut.
1:12:54
Ca- Oh, CapCut, CapCut Yeah, CapCut Yeah, yeah.
1:12:56
Yeah.
1:12:57
I just wish everything wasn't Instagram now.
1:13:00
I just wish that, like, you know, it's become Like an everything box for like
1:13:06
if I wanna put out a movie or something, I'll probably put it on Instagram- Mm
1:13:09
… or if I wanna, you know what I mean?
1:13:11
Yeah.
1:13:11
Um.
1:13:12
And do you have anything else besides Instagram?
1:13:17
N- n- no, I don't have TikTok.
1:13:18
I had to get rid of that because that's just- Yeah … that's just the, the
1:13:21
devil's- Well, think about people who actually also, you know, do the Tik- like,
1:13:25
like m- some of my friends send me TikTok.
1:13:27
I'm like, "Don't send me…" Dude … I, I don't have time for this.
1:13:31
I can't.
1:13:31
I criticize my phone usage a lot, like in my head.
1:13:34
Like, I'm like pretty cognizant of it, but like the amount of time some
1:13:38
people spend on their phones, like, just scrolling is- Ah, yeah … insanity.
1:13:41
Yeah.
1:13:41
Um, I w- then I, I learned about how much people are, and I'm like, "Oh,
1:13:44
I'm actually not so, so bad," right?
1:13:46
I'm actually s- doing all right.
1:13:48
Perfect.
1:13:48
I thought I was in bad shape here, but-
1:13:50
people are sitting there for hours just looking at- Yeah … Instagram videos.
1:13:53
Yeah.
1:13:53
Um, yeah.
1:13:55
Yeah, we did the, um, the digital detox, uh, like a month ago- Oh,
1:14:00
yeah, yeah … with my partner first.
1:14:03
How long did that, how long was it for?
1:14:04
Just 24 hours.
1:14:05
Oh, okay.
1:14:06
But it was, like, no devices at all.
1:14:07
Right.
1:14:08
So you, you're gonna have none of that.
1:14:10
Like, you're not touching, not touching computer.
1:14:13
No, no pad, no TV, none of that.
1:14:15
Right.
1:14:16
You're just fully on, yeah.
1:14:18
You have lights, though.
1:14:18
Yeah.
1:14:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:14:20
I mean, not the electricity.
1:14:21
Yeah, okay.
1:14:21
Yeah.
1:14:21
Just, just anything that device, device related.
1:14:23
That'd be hardcore to do it, like no electricity even.
1:14:26
Like, go Amish.
1:14:27
Ooh.
1:14:28
Go like full Amish.
1:14:29
That, that's possible.
1:14:30
Throwing it out there next time.
1:14:31
Possible.
1:14:32
All right.
1:14:32
Totally.
1:14:33
So how did it go with the- It was fun, and also, like, unexpected, to be honest.
1:14:39
To, you know, you kind of have this idea like, "Oh, I'm gonna do this-
1:14:42
Mm … I'm gonna do that." But if you really think about it, it just kind
1:14:45
of goes into, oh, I cannot use maps, or I cannot use my parking my car.
1:14:50
'Cause you can still go- Right … and do the coffee shop, right?
1:14:53
Or there is some things, and then because you don't have the movement,
1:14:59
the motion- Mm-hmm … of the, the phone or the entertainment, you start
1:15:04
seeing really and noticing things that you not, not, have not noticed before.
1:15:08
We end up going to, like, a, a gallery that we never pay attention before.
1:15:14
We end up drawing, you know, at home half of the evening,
1:15:18
probably reading to each other.
1:15:20
Like, we were reading to each other.
1:15:22
Love it.
1:15:23
You know?
1:15:24
We end up walking, like, German village, like 12:00 AM just, like, you know,
1:15:29
at night, just, just taking a walk.
1:15:31
Why don't we do this all the time?
1:15:32
I don't know.
1:15:33
I don't know.
1:15:34
Uh, well, no, I mean, that's the question I'd be asking myself when I
1:15:36
was doing digital detox and walking around at midnight- … saying, "Why
1:15:39
don't I do this every night?" You know?
1:15:41
Yeah.
1:15:42
Yeah.
1:15:43
Yeah.
1:15:43
What's the thing that most people get wrong about you?
1:15:51
I think people probably think that I'm, like, too… I, I am kind of
1:15:55
bold and I kind of say what I think.
1:15:59
I can seem this way.
1:16:00
Yeah.
1:16:02
Or I may seem that I'm just Eastern European, like you're all, you know.
1:16:08
Right, right, right.
1:16:11
But deep down inside I'm very, like, a s- softy.
1:16:14
Right.
1:16:15
Right.
1:16:16
What about you?
1:16:17
What about me?
1:16:19
What people, you know, think.
1:16:21
Oh, what people get wrong about me?
1:16:23
Mm-hmm.
1:16:25
That's a tough one.
1:16:25
See, that's the thing.
1:16:27
I've been confronted with this in past interviews where people are like,
1:16:29
"What about you?" And I'm like, "Oh, I should probably have an answer for
1:16:31
all these questions- Mm-hmm … if I'm going to ask them myself."
1:16:34
What do people get wrong about me?
1:16:36
I think people think that I'm just, um… I think a lot of people think
1:16:40
that I'm just, 'cause I am, a just, uh, kind of m- a joke-making person.
1:16:45
Mm-hmm.
1:16:45
Just, like, sarcastic.
1:16:47
I make wisecracks all the time.
1:16:48
Mm-hmm.
1:16:49
I think that that becomes a lot of people's, like, impression of me.
1:16:52
I'm just going to make some sarcastic, um, comment about it.
1:16:57
Mm-hmm.
1:16:57
Which is true to a degree.
1:16:58
Like, I do do that.
1:17:00
That's part of my… But it's also not all of me.
1:17:04
Mm-hmm.
1:17:04
Yeah.
1:17:07
So I don't know if that's anything somebody gets wrong about me.
1:17:09
Mm. E- except for thinking that that's all that I am, but that would be- Okay.
1:17:13
Yeah, yeah.
1:17:13
Yeah.
1:17:15
I think that this a, it's a type of question that we need to ask each other.
1:17:19
So for instance, if you would ask me what people get wrong about you-
1:17:27
Oh … I can give you the answer.
1:17:28
All right, I'm, I'm here.
1:17:29
I'm listening.
1:17:30
Yeah.
1:17:31
And then- Oh … and then that's how… That could be a way.
1:17:34
And I give you an example, 'cause you n- you don't seem very talkative person.
1:17:40
Okay.
1:17:43
And, um… Or I would say just reserved.
1:17:47
Like in yoga class.
1:17:48
Yeah.
1:17:48
Yeah.
1:17:49
I mean, that's- Yeah … yeah.
1:17:50
Yeah, I'm not s- very social in yoga class.
1:17:52
Mm-hmm.
1:17:52
But- But in general, even the outside, there's this demeanor.
1:17:57
But again- Yeah, no … this is where we're answering the question to like-
1:18:00
No, I'm listening … what seem, like what it seems- Yeah, no … to me, right?
1:18:03
I'm, I'm hearing you.
1:18:04
So it's just demeanor itself.
1:18:06
Y- y- you're there, you come in v- very quick, "Hello," you
1:18:12
know, "Bye." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:18:13
This is it.
1:18:14
Now we're sitting here, you're chatty.
1:18:18
You're asking questions.
1:18:19
Like, whoa.
1:18:20
But it's, but, but the difference is it's safe here.
1:18:22
That's the difference for me in my, in my head.
1:18:24
It's like… Um, I was thinking about this as I was taking a
1:18:29
walk the other night, I'm like…
1:18:30
And I'm like, "Why am I enjoying this podcast?" Because it allows me an
1:18:35
opportunity to be like, reach out to people that I wanna talk to and learn
1:18:38
more about, and it's… If we need the context of this, that's fine with me.
1:18:42
Mm-hmm.
1:18:42
Because, like, I have, like, uh, I would say insecurity- Mm-hmm … from
1:18:46
childhood and re- you know.
1:18:48
Um, so it's a lot of that.
1:18:49
It's a lot of, um, me shutting down because of experiences from my childhood-
1:18:55
Mm-hmm … that fucked me up, and so.
1:18:57
Yeah.
1:18:58
Um, but I'm much better than I used to be.
1:19:00
Mm-hmm.
1:19:01
And actually, it's nice to hear that, you saying that, because it actually
1:19:04
is pretty enlightening in a way.
1:19:05
Mm-hmm.
1:19:06
Yeah.
1:19:06
And the thing, this is how we kind of, like I always say, it's really hard
1:19:09
to m- know- What is the label when you're sitting inside of your own jar?
1:19:16
Right That's why getting that, you know, that s- like, perspective
1:19:22
from, from another person.
1:19:23
Yeah.
1:19:24
Yeah.
1:19:25
I'm trying to think of mine for you now.
1:19:27
Mm. Yeah.
1:19:29
I would say that it's kind of what you said in a way, that I
1:19:31
think that a lot of people…
1:19:34
You come, you come across w- as kind of, yes, Eastern European kind of, you know?
1:19:39
Mm-hmm.
1:19:39
Um, but, but really, like, you're, like, a little goofy.
1:19:45
Mm. Yeah.
1:19:46
Yeah.
1:19:47
You see, I wouldn't think about it, but now that I'm thinking about yoga
1:19:50
classes, yeah- Yeah … I like to joke a little bit or I would like to goof
1:19:54
more, but yoga seems to be so serious, and it's just how hard to move people.
1:20:01
Like, you know, 'cause you need that… You cannot do it on your own.
1:20:05
You have to… You need that somebody else to go with you on that journey, you know?
1:20:10
Yeah.
1:20:10
No, I get it.
1:20:11
And, like, so much pressure is put on you because you are teaching.
1:20:15
You are leading the class, and if you're like, "Eh, eh, eh,"
1:20:19
and there's no response, I'm like, "Eh, okay, let's just…"
1:20:22
I would say that I totally understand what you're saying, but, like, one
1:20:26
of my biggest frustrations with yoga… And, eh, I really struggle
1:20:30
to find classes that I really like.
1:20:31
Mm-hmm.
1:20:32
I find that a lot of classes are just kind of the same cookie cutter kind of thing.
1:20:37
Mm-hmm.
1:20:37
And then it's kind of this generic music in the background, and music is a thing.
1:20:41
If you're gonna have music, at least have, you know… Either,
1:20:43
either have it very faint or have it, you know… But don't just play
1:20:46
me generic… Anyway, it's a thing.
1:20:48
Yeah.
1:20:48
Yeah, yeah.
1:20:48
I hear you.
1:20:49
Um- And you're also from the film background- Right.
1:20:51
Right, right, right … so you're very, you know, it just- I wanna, I wanna
1:20:52
produce, I wanna produce the yoga class.
1:20:56
Produce the sound.
1:20:57
Um- I would, I would play it … I have this idea of, like, a yoga class, like,
1:21:01
a studio that's got, like, great lights.
1:21:03
Mm-hmm.
1:21:03
Like, really good, like, crazy, weird lighting, 'cause I
1:21:05
actually got some bizarre lights.
1:21:06
Mm-hmm.
1:21:07
And then, like, an incredible, like, sound system as well, and it becomes
1:21:10
a whole thing where you can go and you can, um, yeah, have a whole experience.
1:21:15
Mm-hmm.
1:21:15
Yeah.
1:21:16
Anyway, my point being, you're doing something different, and unique, and
1:21:19
interesting to me, and I think a lot of people are feeling that as well.
1:21:22
Mm. So I don't think… Yeah.
1:21:23
Mm. Yeah.
1:21:24
Thank you.
1:21:24
I appreciate that.
1:21:24
Um, 'cause it is, like… I go to every other yoga class, and there's a
1:21:28
few teachers who it's just like, yeah.
1:21:29
Yeah.
1:21:30
Yeah.
1:21:31
Well, you know, that's definitely, uh, inspired by Katona Yoga.
1:21:36
Right, which I'm still trying to wrap my head around.
1:21:38
Yeah.
1:21:39
Yeah.
1:21:39
Big love of my life.
1:21:41
I'm super sore every time I go to that class.
1:21:42
Yeah.
1:21:43
Yeah.
1:21:47
I hope it's in a good way.
1:21:48
Uh, it, I'm, I'm… I have to go to a physical therapist, but
1:21:51
that's a whole nother story.
1:21:51
Not about your class, but about- Oh, okay, okay, okay,
1:21:53
okay … you know what I'm saying?
1:21:54
Yeah, that's why you're here, actually.
1:21:56
Actually, medical, medical bills because of your Katona class.
1:22:00
And here it is.
1:22:02
Right, right, right.
1:22:04
Um, how did you get into the Katona?
1:22:08
It, it came to me from different directions.
1:22:12
Uh, Josie Schweitzer, uh, she, uh, used to live here, and she,
1:22:17
um, owned two studios in Columbus.
1:22:22
At the same time, I saw the training coming from… about Katona
1:22:27
from, uh, teachers from Europe.
1:22:30
Okay.
1:22:30
It just kind of happened within, like, few weeks.
1:22:33
I'm like, "This, whatever that is- It's a science, yeah … it
1:22:35
looks… it's very interesting to me." And then I took that training.
1:22:40
It was online training, and, and I, um, I was just in awe, very
1:22:45
confused, but deep down inside, the material felt very familiar.
1:22:51
Like, I already know it.
1:22:53
Huh.
1:22:53
It's almost like I had to relearn it.
1:22:56
Right.
1:22:57
And that was it, and I just start.
1:22:59
It just really… It gave me information.
1:23:03
It gave me the answers to why that I couldn't find in just a classical teacher
1:23:09
training, and, you know, it gave me an opportunity to really look inside
1:23:16
from a very different perspective.
1:23:18
What do you think it is about it in particular that, that, that brings that?
1:23:22
Um, Navine, who basically, uh, developed the method, let's put it this way.
1:23:32
Mm-hmm.
1:23:33
I think it w- you know, what she did, she just saw, like, different
1:23:38
modalities because it's like… it's Chinese medicine, it's Kundalini
1:23:43
and Hatha yoga, it's geometry, it's the esoteric conversation
1:23:48
through the metaphors, numerology.
1:23:51
So much more to it that, uh, even, like, it's somatic for me.
1:23:55
It… Like, I really saw that it's, like, three-dimensional
1:23:59
Huh … rather than two-dimensional.
1:24:02
Huh.
1:24:03
And it's, it's, it… Yeah, it just moves your imagination in a way that you
1:24:07
would not expect to be moved in that way.
1:24:11
Hmm.
1:24:12
First, I learned about joints, about organs.
1:24:15
I have organs.
1:24:16
Oh, yeah, they're moved.
1:24:17
Oh, that's what happens when I'm actually practicing yoga, you know?
1:24:20
Right.
1:24:21
Glands.
1:24:22
N- like, and it was going along with somatic therapy at the same time.
1:24:26
Katona, and then some, uh, dance and movement, and then somatic.
1:24:30
I'm like, "I am… Whatever that is, I'm in a good place." Right.
1:24:35
I know this is it I know, like, this is it.
1:24:40
This is what I'm doing for sure The pieces all kind of- And they're
1:24:43
all just coming together … came together, right … constantly.
1:24:46
And then whenever I talk about this material, whenever I have somatic
1:24:51
therapy sessions, Katona comes in.
1:24:53
It kind of waves, you know?
1:24:55
It's this…
1:24:55
You just… You're kind of stitching that theory.
1:24:58
And then there in, in Katona, you know, one-on-one or in, in, in the classes,
1:25:04
same way I can see how somatic, uh, aspect comes in and just… It's
1:25:09
beautifully… It's a beautiful dance Huh.
1:25:13
Yeah.
1:25:13
It made me understand the world, the way the patterns, the way, the way the world
1:25:19
is, and how I can function in this world.
1:25:21
It gave me very, uh, practical tools to use, applicable, accessible tools.
1:25:30
'Cause there's one of the things is that all of the tools are available.
1:25:34
You know, like always Naveen says, it's, you know, the world is open book.
1:25:38
Anything is available right now.
1:25:40
Now we're getting too much information.
1:25:42
Now we don't know how to navigate it.
1:25:45
And I heard somebody say, I can't remember right now who was it, but she
1:25:48
said something like this: "We're having the tools, but really the mastery of
1:25:53
the tools and knowing h- what, when, and how to use it" Yeah That's it.
1:26:00
You don't need much.
1:26:01
But know when, what, and how to use it.
1:26:04
Yeah, I like that.
1:26:05
And that's when it…
1:26:07
Oh, with Katona material, I was able to put my life back together.
1:26:12
How would you describe Katona Yoga to somebody who's never-
1:26:16
Who's never done Katona Yoga?
1:26:17
… come across it before?
1:26:18
Yeah.
1:26:18
Or- It's kind of like with somatic therapy.
1:26:21
Right Just come to the class Come to the session.
1:26:24
Like, I'll give you just, like, a free session.
1:26:27
Right Come to my session, you know, 'cause this is… Like, it's
1:26:30
impossible to describe an experience.
1:26:36
Sure.
1:26:36
But what if somebody… What if you're on, like, say, a podcast, and somebody's like,
1:26:40
"What actually is Katona Yoga?" Yeah.
1:26:42
I would probably say just a, a method developed by Navin
1:26:46
Michaan that, uh, includes or involves Hatha yoga, Kundalini,
1:26:51
breathwork, geometry, metaphor- Okay
1:26:55
Chinese medicine- Okay … uh, Dao principles, main principles of Dao.
1:27:02
Yeah.
1:27:02
I'd never- And it's constantly evolving.
1:27:04
Yeah.
1:27:04
I'd never heard of it until the cla- your class in the… Yeah.
1:27:08
Yeah I'd never come across it.
1:27:10
Mm-hmm.
1:27:10
Yeah.
1:27:10
Yeah.
1:27:11
Yeah.
1:27:13
Um, do you think you've learned anything about yourself or that w-
1:27:17
or that you've learned anything…
1:27:19
I don't know.
1:27:19
It's impossible to say.
1:27:22
I've learned things about myself since living in Columbus that I hadn't
1:27:24
known before, and I don't… but I don't know if they're about Columbus
1:27:27
or if they're about me, or if, if, if it would, would've been different.
1:27:31
But I think every place you end up ends up teaching you something.
1:27:34
Yeah Right?
1:27:35
Right.
1:27:35
Oh, let me ask you this question.
1:27:37
Yeah.
1:27:38
Why is there so much about Columbus?
1:27:41
Oh, I don't know.
1:27:42
I… 'Cause I'm thinking about getting out of here.
1:27:44
Okay.
1:27:45
Okay.
1:27:46
Yeah.
1:27:48
Um, what was it about New York that you learned about yourself?
1:27:53
Um, that I am bad with money.
1:27:56
Um, that… God, wow, so many things.
1:28:02
Uh, I mean, that's- Give me, like, give me, like, three or four.
1:28:06
Good Lord.
1:28:07
That I am, uh… I mean, positive things, that I am str- stronger
1:28:11
than I thought I was, for sure.
1:28:13
Mm. Um, resilient.
1:28:15
Um, but also that I am not good at, um, doing, uh, networky things,
1:28:24
which I think actually kind of feeds into… We were talking about the
1:28:26
first impressions and how I come off as kind of- Mm … and I think that's,
1:28:29
kinda goes hand-in-hand in a way.
1:28:31
Okay.
1:28:31
Um, I just don't have… Networky things, I don't have patience for it.
1:28:34
I don't like the dynamic of, like… 'Cause with filmmaking, there's a
1:28:38
lot of, like, networking events, and the- Yeah … dynamic is always like
1:28:40
we're talking to each other because we want to work, w- we want… And
1:28:43
I just don't like that dynamic.
1:28:45
Mm-hmm.
1:28:45
Just- Mm-hmm … yeah.
1:28:46
Uh, what camera did you use for the, the- Yeah.
1:28:49
Um- Yeah, I hear you.
1:28:50
Yeah.
1:28:51
I hear you.
1:28:51
Um, and also that, uh-
1:28:57
I mean, I don't know.
1:28:57
I mean, I think I did … Was that four?
1:28:59
Yeah, that's, that's plenty.
1:29:01
You know?
1:29:01
Yeah.
1:29:01
I, I mean, I had- Like, just whatever first helps … a shit ton of
1:29:03
debt when I left, so that's- Yeah.
1:29:05
Yeah, that kind of the, the, the first- Yeah.
1:29:07
No, I mean, I really- … that you're fed with money.
1:29:09
No, I mean, I had to leave 'cause of, 'cause I was in a shit ton of
1:29:11
debt and I was just- Yeah … like, "This is unsustainable." Mm-hmm.
1:29:13
Um, but, uh, but it was fun.
1:29:16
It was fun to live there.
1:29:17
Yeah.
1:29:17
Yeah.
1:29:17
Yeah.
1:29:18
Yeah.
1:29:19
Um- Well done by the team
1:29:20
you are f- uh, since you're, like, you know, such a creative
1:29:25
soul, what inspires you right now?
1:29:28
Wow.
1:29:29
Turn this around.
1:29:30
I like it.
1:29:31
Um-
1:29:35
I don't know.
1:29:36
This I mean, it's an easy answer, but, like, this podcast is really,
1:29:39
like, uh, the more I've done it and the more I've thought about what it's
1:29:44
bringing into my world- Mm-hmm … it's really been a positive thing.
1:29:47
For me personally at this point in my life- Mm … like, it feels like- And
1:29:52
maybe I'm just saying this because I'm doing it, but like it's been in my head
1:29:55
for a while, the, the idea for this- Yeah
1:29:57
just to like… And now that I'm actually doing it, and I'm really
1:30:01
like… It's been a while since I've done creative work on my own.
1:30:04
Yeah You know?
1:30:05
And like had the motivation to do it and actually done it.
1:30:08
And, um, yeah, I'm pretty, I'm… It's been good in a, a self-esteem
1:30:14
way, like I'm fucking proud of myself.
1:30:15
Mm.
1:30:15
But also in a way that like I'm having long conversations, and it's interesting
1:30:20
to like, the more conversations I have the more I realize how I converse
1:30:24
and I think about conversation.
1:30:25
And, and it's really been good and interesting in a way, and I'm getting
1:30:29
mo- better at talking to people randomly than I was before in a way.
1:30:34
Oh, got it.
1:30:34
You know what I mean?
1:30:34
Yeah.
1:30:35
Um.
1:30:36
Yeah.
1:30:36
So you're- There's been a lot of growth … you're learning something about
1:30:38
yourself that- It, yeah … is, yeah.
1:30:41
Yeah, it's been good.
1:30:41
The process itself has really been just kind of, um, really rewarding in a way.
1:30:46
Yeah.
1:30:47
So yeah.
1:30:47
And sometimes that, that's what it really takes.
1:30:50
R- right.
1:30:51
Right.
1:30:51
If you're, if you're going to have a good conversation with a person, you
1:30:55
know, with… And that's what it takes to create a podcast, then why not?
1:30:59
Right.
1:31:00
I mean, if we need… It, I mean, uh, honestly part of the origin story
1:31:03
of this is that my nephew was here.
1:31:04
He's 14 years old.
1:31:05
Mm-hmm.
1:31:06
He came and stayed with me like two or three months ago.
1:31:08
And again, I've been thinking about this for years, but I haven't
1:31:10
really thought about it for a while.
1:31:11
And then he was here, and he's not, he's a teenager so he's not that chatty.
1:31:15
But I was like, "Do you wanna record a podcast?" Yeah.
1:31:17
And as soon as he got headphones on, he started talking to me in ways
1:31:20
that he had never talked before.
1:31:21
That's awesome.
1:31:21
He's talking about how it feels to run, and it was like, "Oh, bing." You know?
1:31:27
Yeah.
1:31:27
This is awesome.
1:31:28
Um, because it does, it does open people up in a weird way, you know?
1:31:31
Yeah … to be, to say, "This is the expectation of us right now-
1:31:33
Yeah … is we're going to sit and have a conversation." Yeah.
1:31:36
And we're gonna find a way to do that, whatever, you know?
1:31:38
Yeah.
1:31:38
And I think it's nice in a way.
1:31:40
I think there's… Like, the idea of forced conversation, whatever the
1:31:44
context is, is really kind of like, it seems weird, but it's actually,
1:31:48
um… Like, maybe I'll have some like fucking crazy person in here
1:31:51
at some point who I'll be like- Yeah … "I'm never doing that again."
1:31:53
But, um, but yeah, it's been really…
1:31:54
And I've reconnected with like old friends that I haven't- Mm … talked to
1:31:57
in a while just because, well, you know.
1:31:58
Mm-hmm.
1:31:59
Um- Yeah, it's interesting 'cause, um, whenever we sat down like, "Oh, that,
1:32:04
that, that is weird. Can we just have a conversation?" But as we're more
1:32:08
into the conversation, I see how that would be amazing for relationships.
1:32:15
Yeah.
1:32:16
For couples.
1:32:18
Mm-hmm.
1:32:18
For, you know, I, I w- Right away as soon as you told me about your nephew,
1:32:22
I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I would love to have conversation with my brother's
1:32:26
children." 'Cause it's impossible to have a conversation with them.
1:32:29
But you're making a podcast.
1:32:30
And we're making a podcast.
1:32:31
Yeah.
1:32:32
Oh, yeah.
1:32:33
It's 'cause they get that.
1:32:34
Yeah, exactly.
1:32:35
They know how to do that game.
1:32:36
Yeah.
1:32:36
They understand media, right?
1:32:38
Mm-hmm.
1:32:38
Right.
1:32:39
And it's just their filter.
1:32:40
Sure.
1:32:40
This is where this is their cup of coffee, you know?
1:32:43
I'm gonna have a coffee and- Absolutely … they're gonna like, "Let's do the
1:32:45
podcast." And the other part is just like it w- if it was a normal conversation,
1:32:49
like if we had, if it, if it lulls, like- The conversation has to continue.
1:32:54
Do you know what I'm saying?
1:32:55
Yeah.
1:32:55
Like, that's a big part of it, too.
1:32:56
Yeah.
1:32:56
Like, we're gonna talk for a little while, and we're gonna talk for at
1:32:59
least this, you know… And yeah.
1:33:01
And so the conversat- I have a list of questions just in
1:33:04
case at some point, you know.
1:33:05
Mm. Um, but yeah, it's, it's made me think.
1:33:08
I've done a lot of, like, interesting thoughts about just conversations and
1:33:11
the nature of the fact that this is the context, that it needs a context- Mm-hmm
1:33:17
is kind of both great and also sad in the world we're living in, right?
1:33:21
Um- Yes, and … because we need the context of… Yeah.
1:33:24
Yes, and.
1:33:25
Right.
1:33:25
You know?
1:33:25
Well, improv.
1:33:26
Yeah.
1:33:26
Yeah, exactly.
1:33:27
It's yes, and, 'cause then you're actually preparing.
1:33:31
Yeah.
1:33:32
You prepared, so you're just here, not just taken for granted.
1:33:37
Sure.
1:33:37
And I'm sitting here not taken for granted, and I'm like, "Oh, okay.
1:33:41
This is, this is- Yeah … I'm enjoying this," you know?
1:33:44
Yeah.
1:33:44
And people are very… It's surprising.
1:33:46
Like, I've just reached out to random people that, some people that
1:33:51
I've just randomly are interested in and just reach out and ask,
1:33:54
and they're like, usually, yes.
1:33:56
And it's so interesting to me, 'cause I'm, I'm not sure why I expect them to say
1:33:58
no, but, like, it speaks to me in a way that, like, people wanna talk, you know?
1:34:02
Yeah.
1:34:03
People wanna… Yeah.
1:34:04
Mm-hmm.
1:34:04
Yeah.
1:34:04
So- And, and that's just gives another good excuse, if you really think about
1:34:10
it, to actually have a long conversation.
1:34:12
In real world, you would just, you know, disappear in the phone,
1:34:17
disappear in awkward moment or a pause where, "Oh, I'm gonna go now." Yeah.
1:34:21
No, let's just stay in this awkwardness.
1:34:23
Mm-hmm.
1:34:23
It is awkward.
1:34:24
It is uncomfortable.
1:34:26
Nobody likes pauses, you know?
1:34:28
Right.
1:34:30
But you also don't wanna over chat it.
1:34:31
And right now, even just sitting here and reflecting on, it's like, yeah,
1:34:35
it's, you know… I will remember this.
1:34:39
Oh, it's good to know.
1:34:40
See?
1:34:41
I will, you know?
1:34:42
Maybe, like, in 10 years, I'm gonna be having, like, many podcast or, you know.
1:34:46
But, but I will remember this one 'cause this is a new experience.
1:34:51
Oh, well, I'm glad.
1:34:52
And this is not type of experience of, like, well, you know,
1:34:55
I'm not being expert- Yeah.
1:34:59
No.
1:35:00
I- … on something … yeah.
1:35:00
I'm just being a human- Yeah … with all my flaws and- Yeah … you know,
1:35:03
all my, all my stuff, just like you are.
1:35:06
That's what I want the thing to be.
1:35:09
Yeah.
1:35:09
You know?
1:35:09
Yeah.
1:35:10
Yeah.
1:35:11
Anyway, I appreciate you saying that.
1:35:12
Mm-hmm.
1:35:13
Absolutely.
1:35:14
Um, the last question that I ask people is, uh, what do
1:35:19
you think happens when we die?
1:35:23
You know what?
1:35:24
Mm-hmm.
1:35:24
You just asked me this question, and I see in the hallway this light
1:35:29
you have with like a rainbow-ish.
1:35:32
Oh, yeah, I got the Temu.
1:35:33
Yeah.
1:35:33
Temu.
1:35:33
'Cause you can kind of see it into the- Mm-hmm … it's almost like
1:35:36
the Like, uh, f- flying in the spaceship into the black hole.
1:35:44
Like a vortex.
1:35:44
Yeah.
1:35:45
Yeah.
1:35:46
That's exactly what it is.
1:35:47
Yes.
1:35:49
This is, that would be my answer.
1:35:51
Oh, all right.
1:35:52
The answer is the- Is the, the… Yeah … the vortex.
1:35:55
It's just the, like, yeah, whatever that is.
1:35:59
I'll accept that answer.
1:36:00
Yeah.
1:36:01
Yeah.
1:36:02
It's the most succinct answer we've gotten so far, and I appreciate that.
1:36:06
What does it mean, succinct?
1:36:07
Um, short and, short and sweet.
1:36:09
Oh, yeah.
1:36:10
Yeah.
1:36:11
Yeah.
1:36:12
Yeah.
1:36:12
Yeah.
1:36:12
Yeah.
1:36:13
What made you pa- particular this kind of question?
1:36:17
I don't know.
1:36:17
Honestly, it kind of, I don't really like it, honestly, but I feel like I
1:36:20
should have some q- question that I…
1:36:23
For some reason I feel like there should be some question that I ask
1:36:25
everybody at the end of the podcast.
1:36:27
Mm. You know what I mean?
1:36:27
Mm-hmm.
1:36:27
I don't know why.
1:36:28
Maybe it's 'cause I listen to too many podcasts and that-
1:36:29
Mm-hmm … seems to be a thing.
1:36:31
So yeah, and then when I was doing the first one, that was the answer
1:36:33
I landed on at the last minute, and that was, uh, the question rather,
1:36:36
and so I've been sticking with it.
1:36:37
But really, open to suggestions on, on, uh, end questions, because I can, yeah.
1:36:44
Yeah.
1:36:44
Yeah.
1:36:45
Oftentimes we get to the death thing before the end.
1:36:49
Weirdly enough.
1:36:50
Yeah.
1:36:51
Which is good.
1:36:52
We haven't, we didn't do it this time.
1:36:53
That's- Yeah … that speaks good.
1:36:55
Um… I, I think this, the what inspires you could be a, a fun, a fun,
1:37:01
uh, add, addition to the questions, to the list of the questions.
1:37:05
What inspires you?
1:37:05
Yeah, that's on the list.
1:37:07
All right, what inspires you then?
1:37:10
Uh, I'm saying, like, in, in general, like, for, for your list, for sure.
1:37:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:37:14
I think it's, you know, 'cause we often, you know, go into like what's
1:37:17
wrong, what's this, what's that.
1:37:19
Like, what inspires you?
1:37:20
What brings you joy?
1:37:21
What do you, you know?
1:37:22
Yeah, it's hard because we s- we so rarely sit and reflect, at least
1:37:26
I don't… I mean, it's not a, um, it's not a pro-reflection world
1:37:30
we live in right now, you know?
1:37:32
Mm. It's not a pro, um, so- Yeah, like contemplative sitting.
1:37:36
Yeah, no, it's not a lot of that.
1:37:38
Um, not a lot of that.
1:37:39
You have to really, you have to do it, you have to make an effort to do it- Mm
1:37:42
as opposed to.
1:37:44
I have a friend who's on, like, a 10-day silent retreat right now.
1:37:47
Mm. And I am curious to know- … um, because I don't think I could.
1:37:53
No phone, nothing.
1:37:54
No talking.
1:37:55
Yeah, yeah.
1:37:55
Not even exercise.
1:37:56
Like, you- Is it with Osman?
1:37:57
Yeah.
1:37:58
Yeah.
1:37:58
Have you done this?
1:37:59
Uh-huh.
1:37:59
How long have you done it for?
1:38:00
11 days.
1:38:02
Wow.
1:38:03
Basically it's 11, like, I think you go 10 days and then, like, 11 day you're still
1:38:07
there, you're- Right … catching up and- Right … integrating and… I feel like
1:38:10
it's like a first three, four, five days that you're, like, resisting and then
1:38:13
eventually something, something breaks, but that's how I feel like I would do it.
1:38:17
Yeah.
1:38:18
Yeah.
1:38:18
It's all over the place.
1:38:20
Yeah.
1:38:20
There's no like- Yeah … exact, like- It's, I, it, like, I could do,
1:38:24
like, three days I feel like maybe.
1:38:25
But really, it really, um… And that's, what does that say about me,
1:38:30
that I am so afraid of just being with myself for three days straight?
1:38:34
I don't know Well, let's do the…
1:38:37
Let's put this way.
1:38:39
Remember what, when, and how you do it.
1:38:43
Is it really about being afraid?
1:38:45
And it's like that's why Vipassana is done the way it's done.
1:38:47
You go with other people.
1:38:49
Right.
1:38:49
You know, you know, you sharing the experience.
1:38:53
This is very important.
1:38:55
You are in this thing together.
1:38:56
Even if you don't talk to them about it, you're still- You know
1:38:59
it All right People will cry.
1:39:01
People will, like, first thing that people usually do, they escape.
1:39:05
They run away.
1:39:06
Right They go into the woods, and then they come back.
1:39:10
Some people don't come back.
1:39:12
Right Right They just off into the woods forever.
1:39:14
Forever Yeah, exactly.
1:39:16
And, you know, you can take it as a defeat, or you can just like, "Hey,
1:39:21
maybe this tool, it's not the tool."
1:39:26
You know, what, when, and how, right?
1:39:28
Yeah So maybe what is not this, maybe it's something else.
1:39:33
This is where we get sometimes stuck in, like, those, oh, if it's
1:39:38
a cold plunge, then for everyone.
1:39:39
Maybe it's not.
1:39:40
Right You know, if it's sauna, is it for every season?
1:39:44
No, maybe it's not.
1:39:45
If this is, you know, hormonal therapy, is it for everyone?
1:39:49
No.
1:39:49
So, you know, like, so this is your choice.
1:39:52
You know, do you need to do 10 days, or you can do just one and start with that?
1:39:56
Right.
1:39:56
Right.
1:39:57
I think some people probably go into experience like that, like, with
1:39:59
expectations on themselves that they have to do this for themselves, and I think
1:40:03
that that's when they get into a, a spiral of feeling defeated and, you know- Yeah
1:40:07
et cetera, et cetera.
1:40:08
Yeah Um, when you're expecting yourself to be able to… Have you
1:40:11
ever had any, um, uh, psychedelic, profound psychedelic experiences?
1:40:15
I did.
1:40:16
Do you wanna talk about it?
1:40:19
I would say this way.
1:40:21
Till this day, I think still that more of people, relationships, and things that
1:40:28
I've done myself been more transformative for me than psychedelic journeys.
1:40:34
Okay.
1:40:34
Yeah.
1:40:36
Um, but there was one very profound that, um, kind of just I remember till this day.
1:40:45
And, um, I'm still doing the same mistakes, and I'm still kind of
1:40:50
like- Right … following my own patterns- Right, right … you know?
1:40:54
I think it's, for me at least, the way I see it is of opening,
1:41:00
expanding, m- m- just, just bigger.
1:41:05
It's,
1:41:08
it's a- Like, just whatever it is, it just gets- It zooms out.
1:41:08
It zooms out.
1:41:08
It zooms… Yeah.
1:41:08
Yeah.
1:41:09
I just… Yeah.
1:41:10
Or zooming all the way in into something.
1:41:12
Right.
1:41:13
Yeah.
1:41:13
Right, right.
1:41:13
Yeah.
1:41:13
Yeah.
1:41:14
The zooming out is the thing I always get.
1:41:15
Like, I'm able to see the big picture in a way that I've never seen it before.
1:41:18
And I'm like- Mm-hmm … oh, this is like interactions become so
1:41:21
transparent in a strange way.
1:41:22
Like, it all becomes very, um… Yeah.
1:41:26
Yeah.
1:41:27
Like, um… It's like seeing from some sort of a bird's-eye view or something.
1:41:31
Mm-hmm.
1:41:31
I don't know how to put it.
1:41:32
Mm-hmm.
1:41:32
Yeah.
1:41:33
Yeah.
1:41:34
Anyway, Nastya, thank you so much for coming in.
1:41:37
I really appreciate it.
1:41:38
It was a wonderful conversation.
1:41:40
I feel like I get to know you better, and I really love that, so.
1:41:42
My pleasure.
1:41:43
Yeah.
1:41:43
I loved it.
1:41:45
Thank you.
1:41:46
I already said it.
1:41:47
Thanks for coming in.
1:41:47
Yeah.
1:41:47
Yeah.
1:41:47
Thank you so much.
1:41:47
And thanks for being, like, a killer yoga teacher.
1:41:50
Do you wanna promote anything, by the way, while you're here?
1:41:52
I don't know if… I don't know.
1:41:53
I'm a somatic therapist here in Columbus, Ohio.
1:41:56
All right.
1:41:57
And, um, I'll share the link of my website.
1:41:59
Okay.
1:41:59
We'll put it in the show notes.
1:42:01
There you go.
1:42:01
All right.
1:42:01
In the show notes.
1:42:02
That's how we do it.
1:42:02
Cool, cool, cool.
1:42:03
That's how we do it.
1:42:03
And if you ever get a chance, if you're in Columbus, Ohio, go to one of her classes.
1:42:07
I love them.
1:42:08
Thank you so much.
1:42:08
Thank you.
1:42:09
Yeah, yeah.
1:42:09
Thank you
1:42:15
And that was Anastasija Kacena.
1:42:18
Truly grateful that she was open to just sitting down and having a conversation
1:42:22
with a random yoga student, and that she seemed to enjoy it as much as I did.
1:42:28
So thank you, Stasia.
1:42:30
It was wonderful to get to know you beyond the yoga teacher you that I knew before.
1:42:35
You can learn more about Anastasija and her yoga and somatic therapy
1:42:39
offerings at sijasomatics.com.
1:42:43
That's sijasomatics.com.
1:42:46
And you can follow her on Instagram at
1:42:50
anastasija_kacena.
1:42:51
That's A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-J-A underscore K-A-T-C-Y-N-A.
1:42:58
I'll put all that and everything else in the show notes.
1:43:02
You can follow this podcast on Instagram at onefjefpod, and you can email
1:43:06
the podcast at onefjefpod@gmail.com.
1:43:10
And now you can call and leave a voicemail for the podcast that I will probably
1:43:14
play on a future show at 669-241-5882.
1:43:21
So that's exciting.
1:43:23
That number again is 669-241-5882.
1:43:28
Tell me who you are, your thoughts on the show, your biggest fears, what
1:43:31
inspires you, et cetera, et cetera.
1:43:33
Anything at all will bring me joy.
1:43:36
Finally, please take a moment to write a quick review of this podcast on whatever
1:43:40
platform you're listening on, or just give it five stars or subscribe, whatever.
1:43:45
Any kind of engagement helps tell the all-powerful algorithms that this
1:43:49
show is worthy to boost or whatever it is that the algorithms actually do.
1:43:54
It helps.
1:43:55
I think I've run out of ways to express my gratitude to you, the
1:43:59
listener, for continuing to put this show in your ear holes every week.
1:44:04
So I'll just keep it simple.
1:44:08
Thank you so much for listening.
1:44:10
I would give you all a big hug if I could
1:44:16
I'll see you next week
1:44:21
Very good, Jeffrey