Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / S2 E26: The Clone Wars...A Kid's Show? Part 2!

Transcript

S2 E26: The Clone Wars...A Kid's Show? Part 2! · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello there, control your insolence and concentrate.
• 0:05
  It's time for most things, Kenobi.
• 0:20
  Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Most Things Kenobi, a
• 0:24
  podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi in all things Star Wars.
• 0:27
  I'm your host, Leanne. And I'm your host, Lauren.
• 0:31
  Before we get started, we're going to do a little shout out
• 0:34
  moment and we're also going to read two of the reviews that we
• 0:39
  have on Spotify. Or is it Spotify and?
• 0:41
  Apple, these are from Apple. Spotify, you can't write a
• 0:44
  review, you can only leave. That's right.
• 0:46
  I have to say we have quite a high rating on Spotify.
• 0:48
  So thank you very much. We do to everybody and we do
• 0:51
  everywhere, but Spotify in particular is very high.
• 0:55
  Yeah. And I just, we wanted to
• 0:58
  incorporate this going forward to really highlight our fans and
• 1:03
  those who listen and to thank them in just a little way, you
• 1:06
  know? And so we'll start with the
• 1:09
  shout outs. We have two new patrons.
• 1:11
  Yes. And we actually in our last
• 1:15
  patron Zoom call, we got to meet one of them, and that's Max.
• 1:18
  So hey, Max, Max, you passed the Obi Wan litmus test on the call,
• 1:27
  so you're already awesome. And Amanda, that's our second
• 1:30
  shout out. We have not met you yet, but you
• 1:32
  must be awesome because you you're a fan.
• 1:34
  So because you're here and we love you.
• 1:37
  Yes. So thank you very much for
• 1:39
  supporting the show, for coming into the community.
• 1:41
  We're really excited to have you guys join us and hopefully
• 1:45
  you'll enjoy some of the content we're putting out.
• 1:47
  Let us know, give us some feedback over on Patreon.
• 1:49
  We love to hear from our Patreon members.
• 1:52
  You guys are the best. Yeah, and you guys come up with
• 1:55
  awesome ideas for episodes, and we're always open to them
• 1:58
  because me and me and Lauren will ramble about anything.
• 2:01
  So if you can keep us focused, kudos to you.
• 2:09
  And we have two reviews for the podcast from Apple that we're
• 2:14
  going to read. Do you wanna go first or shall I
• 2:17
  go First? You can go for we have an older
• 2:19
  one and a newer 1 so you can read or vintage.
• 2:22
  I can't believe we've been doing this for four years.
• 2:25
  When I saw that that's. Crazy that.
• 2:28
  Blew my mind. I can't believe we've.
• 2:30
  It doesn't it, it really doesn't feel like 4 years.
• 2:33
  That's a long time, I. Know, I know, it doesn't feel
• 2:37
  like that long. No.
• 2:38
  And it's still fun. And that's why.
• 2:41
  Yes, that's why. It is still fun, and I think
• 2:44
  that's part of the magic, yeah. It has to stay fun, otherwise
• 2:47
  who wants to do it if it's not fun?
• 2:50
  Exactly. So our first review that we're
• 2:54
  gonna read on this episode for this this week's installment is
• 3:00
  titled I Have a Good Feeling about This.
• 3:02
  And this is a vintage one. This is a vintage review, and
• 3:07
  it's from Stormy Weather 23. You know who you are, and it
• 3:13
  says, loving this podcast already.
• 3:16
  You can immediately sense the passion for Star Wars these
• 3:19
  women share, and it's so great hearing how that fandom brought
• 3:21
  them together as space twins. Parentheses love that term, by
• 3:25
  the way. And parentheses, the knowledge
• 3:28
  and enthusiasm they both have for a Galaxy far, far away will
• 3:31
  certainly make this an exciting adventure to follow.
• 3:34
  Well, Stormy Weather 23, I hope you're still following this
• 3:38
  adventure. I think you probably are, and in
• 3:42
  in many ways I'm sure. But we thank you for your
• 3:45
  support, honestly. And I just, I hope you still
• 3:50
  have a good feeling about this four years later.
• 3:54
  Yes. And what do you have?
• 3:57
  I have one from July semi recently from Hocus Pocus fan
• 4:02
  123. Same.
• 4:06
  Same here. Yes this one is titled.
• 4:10
  Very fun podcast with two exclamation points.
• 4:14
  I found this podcast not too long ago and OMGI cannot in all
• 4:19
  capitals stop listening. I love that Lauren and Leanne,
• 4:23
  you 2 are so funny and I applaud you both for all the hard work
• 4:27
  you put into this project. Keep up the great work.
• 4:29
  That's really nice. That's really nice.
• 4:33
  It is hard work, so thank you. Really.
• 4:36
  And Lauren puts a lot of the OK, Lauren puts in all of the
• 4:40
  artwork and animated stuff and YouTube stuff because that's
• 4:44
  kind of her bread and butter. So she she does a lot of good
• 4:50
  for this show. And so thank you to everyone,
• 4:52
  really. We had one vintage one and one
• 4:55
  recent one and we love it. Thank you very much.
• 4:57
  Feel free to go over to our our Apple, I don't know Apple
• 5:02
  podcast account and leave us a review.
• 5:05
  We might read it on an episode otherwise.
• 5:07
  We always really appreciate even the just the star reviews that
• 5:11
  we get on Spotify as well. So thank you to everybody who
• 5:14
  yeah, thank you puts in that extra effort for us.
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  We appreciate you and. Now on to what we are gonna
• 5:20
  discuss this week, which is we are revisiting a very early
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  vintage topic, if you will, in the show, and that is Clone
• 5:29
  Wars, a kid show. Question mark.
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  Question mark. Said in our very first
• 5:36
  installment of this. We meant to come back to this a
• 5:40
  lot sooner. And then like things happened,
• 5:42
  like shows happened and movies happened and.
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  Yeah, life happened. Celebration and life.
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  And so here we are. Did you go back and listen by
• 5:52
  chance? I I didn't should I have?
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  I can't go back and listen. It makes me feel weird.
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  It's it's. Weird, we sound weirdly younger,
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  which how is that possible? But also like, we're very polite
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  and careful in ways that we aren't anymore, which I really
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  like. Interesting.
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  Maybe I should go back and listen.
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  I don't know. That's gonna make me feel weird.
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  Yeah. Like listening to your past self
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  which is weird. Yeah, it's, it was our, I think
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  it was our fourth episode, 4th or 5th, I can't remember now,
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  but it was Yeah, it was, it was cute.
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  We were still feeling out how to do a podcast at the time, but it
• 6:32
  was pretty good. I have to say, for people who
• 6:34
  have no experience in this, we from day one have always said if
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  we're not gonna do it all out, why do it at all?
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  So. That's the truth I think we've
• 6:43
  represented. I think so, yeah.
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  I'm really excited to hear your your choice.
• 6:51
  I was going to text you So as usual listeners, we have not
• 6:55
  told each other what we're picking.
• 6:56
  So we may have picked the same thing.
• 6:58
  We may not have but I was going to text you Lauren today because
• 7:01
  I was nervous if I picked the same thing and I'm like I it
• 7:05
  doesn't matter if I do. We can talk for however long we
• 7:08
  want about the same exact topic if we picked.
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  It this is true and. So.
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  I'm, Yeah, I, well, that's always a risk.
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  What do we do with these? Like when we don't tell each
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  other ahead of time, it's always a risk.
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  We're going to pick the same thing where if you hang out at
• 7:24
  our Patreon soon, you're gonna see something that happened
• 7:28
  recently where we did just that. It's so good though.
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  It's so unprompted and we did the exact same thing.
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  It was hilarious. I can't wait to hear the reviews
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  on that. One.
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  Yeah, same. So how do you want to attack
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  this? Do you want to go first or
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  should I go first? I don't know because mine's
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  heavy. So.
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  How heavy? Is mine.
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  Why don't you go first? You go first.
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  I'm. Excited.
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  OK, All right. Well, OK.
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  I want to talk about Rush Clovis.
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  I warned you. I'm ready because this guy is a
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  hot mess of a character, that's for sure.
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  Holy crap. Yeah, so I went back and
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  revisited the season 5, right, the Season 5.
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  So I didn't do the earliest rush Clovis, because me and you were
• 8:28
  talking loosely about maybe doing an episode on the show
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  about just that one episode in Clone Wars.
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  I'm talking about the escalation between Anakin and Rush and then
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  the fallout with Padme, because all of that is beyond the kids
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  show. Oh yeah.
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  These are deep, heavy hitting topics that I think even as a
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  teenager I would have squirmed a little bit watching this because
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  I squirm now. It's uncomfortable.
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  And to the show, to the show creators, the the artists, the
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  script writers, the voice actors, everyone involved.
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  I get why they did it. Because Darth Vader didn't come
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  from nothing. Right.
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  And we're getting to the point where Anakin is almost to
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  Revenge of the Sith. So there there has to be an
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  escalation. But the way they did it, and I
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  think my biggest problem isn't so much rush, rush Clovis and
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  Anakin. It's Padme.
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  Like my issues, yeah, are with how things, how they interact
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  with Padme and how Padme interacts with them.
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  Interesting. Maybe because I'm a female, I
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  don't know, but my most uncomfortable part of the entire
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  Clovis versus Anakin thing is the Padme interaction.
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  So that's what I kind of want to focus on because that is beyond
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  kids show shit. I can't wait for you to
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  elaborate. I don't have a lot of memory
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  about this episode except like some of the violence in it, and
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  there's a scene in a cell that I remember being super
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  uncomfortable watching 'cause there's like some weird ideas
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  being thrown around in there. Well, there's yeah, yes.
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  So it all precipitates for anyone who's not seen it or
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  needs a refresh rush and Padme have this like undercover thing
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  happening for the greater good, right?
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  She's going undercover and it starts many seasons back.
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  And then there's the season 5 multi episode showdown between
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  him and Anakin. And it precipitates from Clovis
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  kind of telling Padme that he knows that she has feelings for
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  Anakin, and she denies them, and she's afraid he finds out.
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  And he says, well, if you don't have feelings for him, then you
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  won't mind if I do this. And he, like, sweeps her up into
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  his arms and goes to kiss her. And her, her words were
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  literally no. Clovis no.
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  Oh my. God.
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  You could stop right there and like not a kid show.
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  But then Anakin walks in and that's where the, you know, the
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  real issue surfaces in, in the violence that occurs.
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  He just goes for it. Just full on bitch slaps.
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  Like literally the metal hand he forced chokes, he throws them
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  across the room. There's all kinds of like,
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  pissing match shit between Clovis, like, oh, fight without
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  your lightsaber. And so Anakin does.
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  And it's like, it's gross. And then there's Padme saying
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  stop it. And Anakin says you don't have a
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  choice in this. You don't have a say in this.
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  OK, wow, it's so bad. That's worse than I remember.
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  It's so bad. So we're taking the female out
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  of this equation and telling her number 1 he was Clovis was going
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  to she said no and he was going to just ignore the her lack of
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  consent. And then she's trying to get
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  these two men to stop acting like absolute morons.
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  And Anakin has the audacity to say you don't have a say in
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  this. That is talk about removing a
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  woman's anything from this. I can't.
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  Yeah, that's gross. One of the things I hate most in
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  storytelling is when a man tells a woman what she thinks or
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  believes. Like, I can tell that you have
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  feelings for me. I that that approach where a man
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  tells a woman he can tell she has feelings for him, whether or
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  not it's true. I always hate that.
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  It's in so many films that come to mind right away to the top of
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  my head, and it it just always gross.
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  It's so frustrating. And The thing is, is even if
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  Padme, let's, let's pretend, let's pretend Padme is wrestling
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  with something and she does have feelings for Clovis, she could
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  turn around and say I no longer feel that way and I don't want
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  this to happen. And he should still acknowledge
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  and respect her decision to make it change her mind.
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  Yes, consent on anything can change.
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  Yeah. Right up until the last minute.
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  You can change it. This is crazy for a kids show.
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  So I said fuck it, I'm going all the way in with this.
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  I'm going straight to the Clovis, 'cause this fight has
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  everything. Non consensual tension, non
• 13:48
  consensual fighting, male pissing, matches, breakups,
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  violence, what else? It's terrible and it's not a
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  kids show. Well, like Anakin completely not
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  trusting Padme, acting out of jealousy and and treating her
• 14:08
  like he owns her. Yeah.
• 14:12
  Oh my God that's gross. Yeah, I remember watching that
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  episode the first time and and hating the way I felt watching
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  it. Which means.
• 14:22
  A little slimy and crummy and gross.
• 14:23
  Well, like are we? We'd give them the benefit of
• 14:26
  the doubt as that's how we're supposed to feel, right?
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  Watching it I guess. This is yes, because again,
• 14:34
  Anakin has to get from killing that village to save his mother
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  to Darth Vader, right? And so there's an escalation in
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  the war. There's an escalation.
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  This is after Ahsoka leaves. So he's questioning everything
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  that this is after Harko or Rico Hardeen.
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  Harko Raydeen, that's his drag name.
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  It's Rico Hardeen. And then all of this stuff is
• 15:04
  leading up to this. So honestly, we're at a point
• 15:07
  with Anakin where he literally says, I think he voices it.
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  He's like, I don't know what's something in me just snapped or
• 15:14
  or which abusing language right there like that's so Padme
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  breaks up with him or says they shouldn't see each other for a
• 15:22
  while and it's left at that until Clovis, you know, he's
• 15:28
  gone. Yeah.
• 15:29
  He he lets go of you know, they're hanging off that ledge
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  and he lets go and and he makes the decision for them.
• 15:37
  I don't know, but like, then everything is just like
• 15:41
  magically OK, But Padme utters the words.
• 15:44
  I don't feel safe anymore. Yeah.
• 15:47
  And that really drives home how heavy of a topic this is,
• 15:51
  because if you think about her crying, she's pregnant.
• 15:55
  I'm talking about like Revenge of the Sith, right?
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  She's crying, she's pregnant. She has to make this decision.
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  Anakin's already turning. Obi Wan tells her and has that
• 16:04
  conversation with her. And she goes to try one last
• 16:07
  time. She knew then.
• 16:09
  Yeah, Yeah, she already knew. Yeah.
• 16:14
  I think there's a part of her I, I don't, I don't know.
• 16:19
  I, I don't know. But when you look at it from a
• 16:22
  point of view of what we know about Revenge of the Sith, and
• 16:26
  then you have this added peace from Clone Wars, very heavy
• 16:30
  added peace. She doesn't feel safe around him
• 16:33
  and he's just done what he did at the Temple and her and Obi
• 16:38
  Wan try to go save him. Is she really trying to save
• 16:41
  Anakin or is she trying to save what little is left of him for
• 16:44
  the sake of her kids, for the sake of Obi Wan and their
• 16:47
  friendship? Because I can't believe that she
• 16:50
  would think like I want to save this man and and I will fix him.
• 16:54
  She had to have known that it was beyond repair at this point.
• 16:59
  One, this is the woman who knew he killed a village of people,
• 17:05
  correct? And still just to be with him.
• 17:08
  So right I. You know she has a heart of
• 17:12
  gold. She wants to stick up for people
• 17:15
  and save people and help people. It's in her blood, right?
• 17:18
  But at what cost? And I'm not blaming her, I'm
• 17:21
  just saying she had to have known at some point it wasn't
• 17:24
  going to get better. Yeah.
• 17:27
  Do you feel like this episode arc is also trying to lay the
• 17:31
  groundwork of the escalation that takes place very quickly in
• 17:36
  Revenge of the Sith? Like from Anakin immediately
• 17:43
  assuming that Padme and Obi Wan are a thing, you know, he he
• 17:49
  comes home and he says, you know, Obi Wan was here.
• 17:52
  Like, what was he doing here? And then to escalate to quickly
• 17:56
  trying to kill her once he sees Obi Wan.
• 17:59
  And do you think they're just trying to tie this together,
• 18:02
  that that jealousy was already embedded in him?
• 18:07
  How could Anakin think that Obi Wan would want Padme?
• 18:11
  It's so crazy. No, it's crazy.
• 18:15
  Especially since he did know about Obi Wan and Sateen and how
• 18:20
  Obi Wan handled that. Why would he suddenly have an
• 18:23
  affair with Anakin's wife, which he knew Anakin and Padme were
• 18:28
  together? Well, the paranoia was planted,
• 18:32
  the seed of that was planted in this ark because she, Padme
• 18:37
  physically turns away from him and says this whole relationship
• 18:41
  is based on lies and secrecy, which is probably what caused
• 18:48
  Anakin to think, oh, more secrets, more secrecy, more
• 18:51
  lies. What have you been keeping for?
• 18:53
  He's he's gone by this point. The Jedi Order has lied to him.
• 18:59
  The Republic has been lying to everybody.
• 19:02
  So what? What more would it take for him
• 19:04
  to think that Padme, too, was just lying to him again?
• 19:08
  Yeah. It's so sad to see a person
• 19:10
  crazy like who's lost their grip on truth and reality that much.
• 19:15
  There's how did you get them back, you know?
• 19:18
  It's right where Palpatine wanted them.
• 19:20
  He needed this man to snap. And there he went.
• 19:24
  I mean he yeah was all in, which fucking defeats the point of him
• 19:30
  wanting to save Padme from death.
• 19:34
  Hey, no. It's just so crazy.
• 19:37
  It's like a snake eating its own tail.
• 19:39
  When you start to look at Anakin's motivations, it kind of
• 19:42
  like it's like I hate you, I don't trust you, I must save
• 19:45
  you. It's like you're you have lost
• 19:47
  your mind. It's truly crazy.
• 19:51
  It's crazy. The poor soul.
• 19:56
  But really, put him up against Darth Maul also lost his mind
• 20:01
  and was crazy. So there's probably an element
• 20:05
  needed to turn over to the dark side that completely like that.
• 20:10
  Totally. Well, and they both were
• 20:13
  Palpatine's apprentice. So maybe there's the common
• 20:16
  denominator that if you get too close to that man, you will lose
• 20:20
  your mind because he's, he takes such sadistic joy in twisting
• 20:24
  people's reality. It's really.
• 20:26
  Sad. Yeah, that's so sad.
• 20:29
  I know I've strayed so far down the timeline away from Rush
• 20:32
  Clovis, but really, the point of all of this, it's not a kids
• 20:36
  show in the way that they're handling very adult topics.
• 20:40
  I mean in addition to violence. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:44
  Again, there was There is no blood on him though.
• 20:46
  He just had a bruised eye. I don't think there was blood.
• 20:49
  I don't. It was just oh, he got hit in
• 20:51
  the face 400 times by a metal hand and all he had was a black
• 20:56
  eye. No problem please.
• 20:59
  Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
• 21:01
  They can't ever show any realistic kind of violence
• 21:04
  'cause you get hit in the head one time and you might die.
• 21:08
  Yeah, like that in movies, people get punched over and
• 21:11
  over. I know a person who got punched
• 21:13
  once and did almost die. Like, it's not the same as real
• 21:18
  as real life, especially not in a kids show.
• 21:21
  But it's funny that they'll like walk that line of staying, you
• 21:26
  know, not too inappropriate. But then they go really far off
• 21:31
  into the weeds with some of the other stuff.
• 21:33
  It's. It's kind of really something
• 21:36
  it's. What makes it great also at the
• 21:38
  same time? Really.
• 21:40
  Yeah. I mean, it's it's gritty, this
• 21:42
  whole thing with Clovis and the fact that they revisit it from
• 21:48
  earlier seasons. You know, he's a, he's a
• 21:51
  mainstay in like the conflict that Anakin has to deal with
• 21:55
  with. Well, even that early episode
• 21:58
  with them. And is it season 2?
• 22:00
  I think. There is stuff.
• 22:03
  In that episode that is kind of like this is a little, this is a
• 22:09
  little Butch for a little children.
• 22:11
  Like Padme is kind of getting caught into a sex trope here.
• 22:17
  There's there's a lot with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:21
  That was mine. That was mine.
• 22:22
  I went really heavy. But that's the one that really
• 22:24
  stands out to me of like, whoa, no, it's.
• 22:29
  It's a good choice, honestly. It is.
• 22:31
  It's a very heavy, very mature topic that they handled it.
• 22:36
  I mean I guess you could say they handled it well, but it
• 22:38
  those episodes make my skin crawl, which is one of the
• 22:41
  reasons why I do not watch it very often.
• 22:45
  And I mean, rewatching it, the stuff with Pad May really that
• 22:49
  made my skin crawl more than the, I mean, I'm not discounting
• 22:53
  the violence, but it's more than the punching and kicking and
• 22:57
  yeah, name calling and taunting and all this stuff.
• 23:01
  It's her being dismissed and then her saying that she doesn't
• 23:05
  feel safe with the man she loves.
• 23:06
  That's crazy. Anyway, yeah, not a kid show.
• 23:13
  What's yours? I'm curious, is it the same
• 23:16
  thing? Did we pick the same thing?
• 23:17
  We did not pick the same thing. Oh, good.
• 23:20
  OK, excellent. Really surprising I'm picking a
• 23:26
  particular moment in the episode.
• 23:28
  Revenge, actually. Oh that.
• 23:32
  I mean, that's a good one. Any moment in the episode
• 23:35
  Revenge would do. Equally, what's your?
• 23:37
  Moment. Equally darkened, it's the part
• 23:41
  where Maul grabs Obi Wan by the face.
• 23:43
  Oh, we always talk about this. Yeah, I know.
• 23:47
  But like if you really, well, first of all, the whole like
• 23:52
  setup where Obi Wan lands on, I think it's Volusia.
• 23:57
  Is it Volusia or Vidonia? I can't remember.
• 23:59
  Wherever he goes, there are, if you look closely and like the
• 24:03
  first time I watched it, the color graduation was different
• 24:06
  on my television and I have a way better TV now and it's a
• 24:09
  little bit lighter. There are bodies everywhere.
• 24:14
  Oh no shit. There's like dead people.
• 24:16
  You can see drag marks in the dirt, like they've been dragged
• 24:19
  up the street dead. There's people hanging out of
• 24:22
  windows like. Oh my God, it is.
• 24:25
  Gruesome. Not a kid show.
• 24:29
  Not a kid show. And there's that Droid, like
• 24:31
  bouncing off the wall like in a horror film that Obi Wan puts
• 24:34
  out of its own misery. That's sad.
• 24:37
  Yeah, it's. It's awful.
• 24:40
  But anyway, the part where Moll grabs open one by the face and
• 24:47
  then says, I will make sure you stay awake long enough to feel
• 24:51
  every single cut, Your death will be beyond excruciating.
• 24:54
  You will suffer as I have suffered.
• 24:59
  Damn. Not a kid.
• 25:01
  Show not a kid show. First time I heard this I was
• 25:04
  like, he's talking about torturing a person and like
• 25:08
  making sure they stay awake while they're being tortured.
• 25:11
  I was like, this is horrific. That's like brutal.
• 25:16
  I mean, when you lay it out like that, brutal.
• 25:20
  And they're face to face. Maul is holding a lightsaber to
• 25:24
  Obi Wan's face. Not even like to his neck.
• 25:26
  Like he's gonna burn his face off and they have this really
• 25:30
  extreme close up. So, you know, it's like a hyper
• 25:32
  emotional situation. For Maul in particular, it's
• 25:35
  just on his eyes and his like, eyes are all bloodshot and you
• 25:39
  can see like just a little bit of Obi Wan's face and his
• 25:42
  eyelashes are like twitching 'cause he's trying to get away.
• 25:46
  He's just like, God, the whole setup.
• 25:49
  I think when I first watched it, it's like you get so swept up in
• 25:53
  the moment, 'cause it's kind of a crazy intense moment, but the
• 25:58
  things they're saying and the implication of the whole
• 26:01
  scenario is so not something you would find in a kids show.
• 26:08
  Is this before? No, this is app.
• 26:11
  Wait, is this before or after? You know how Maul has that?
• 26:16
  Like weird like that art of Satine in his room.
• 26:20
  Oh, this is before. That this is this is before that
• 26:23
  OK, because he he has tendencies.
• 26:27
  Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 26:28
  He's a little creepy, little sadistic.
• 26:31
  He's got a yeah. I think he has like a streak.
• 26:35
  Like he, he's playing it off as revenge, but he is definitely
• 26:41
  taking pleasure in it. And Mother Towson is, like,
• 26:43
  encouraged it, you know? That's true.
• 26:47
  Yeah, that's true. She knows Obi Wan.
• 26:50
  She. Does they've been face to face
• 26:52
  multiple times and there's this weird dynamic between them all
• 26:56
  because apparently she used to study with Palpatine.
• 27:02
  Like she was learning from Palpatine and he was just using
• 27:05
  her to gain knowledge and then stole her son because Moll is
• 27:09
  her son and so she hates Palpatine.
• 27:14
  But she also like was face to face with Obi Wan who actually
• 27:18
  killed Moll who is her son. So she doesn't mind.
• 27:21
  Probably that Moll wants revenge.
• 27:24
  Yeah, I always think of her like a not an unbiased, but kind of
• 27:29
  an outside influence on things where she'll allow things to
• 27:33
  happen but she's not really controlling it, but.
• 27:36
  She won't intervene. If she can see something is
• 27:39
  going to end badly, she'll let it right.
• 27:41
  Yeah, exactly. Just let it happen.
• 27:44
  It doesn't really matter what party that kind of thing.
• 27:46
  Exactly. She feels no obligation to
• 27:48
  intervene on people's behalves unless they're like her night
• 27:52
  sisters, and even then, correct. Not always.
• 27:55
  Even then. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:57
  So. So he takes great pleasure in
• 28:01
  cutting people and making sure they stay awake throughout the
• 28:06
  entire thing. That's which is.
• 28:09
  Not what Obi Wan did to him but I'm sure like living in a trash
• 28:14
  heap for 15 years didn't feel super great.
• 28:19
  And having to build himself a little spider body.
• 28:21
  Like if we're going to do an eye for an eye he should cut Obi Wan
• 28:25
  in half. I.
• 28:27
  Should have cut you off at the neck.
• 28:30
  Yeah, I, I just, the dialogue in the sequence is still like one
• 28:34
  of my favorite things ever. But so like, if you kind of just
• 28:38
  take the scenario, it's super dark.
• 28:42
  Like the whole point is that they capture Obi Wan, put him on
• 28:46
  a ship with the intention of like flying off where no one can
• 28:50
  find him so they can torture him to death slowly like what would
• 28:54
  have happened if Ventress didn't arrive.
• 28:59
  Which is ironic that it's Ventress.
• 29:01
  I I understand it's, it becomes entertaining.
• 29:05
  Yes. But I it's the keeping him awake
• 29:15
  part that really gets to me. Right.
• 29:17
  It's it's so premeditated and and if I had like a little child
• 29:26
  watching that I would be like Fast forward.
• 29:29
  I don't know what you're saying. Like what?
• 29:32
  Yeah. And, and it's marked by the very
• 29:35
  personal way that he is face to face.
• 29:38
  Like when you're that close, it's personal.
• 29:41
  So he means it. Yeah.
• 29:43
  And he's if Obi Wan felt, you know, like, did he feel fear in
• 29:49
  that moment? Or did he just think like, oh,
• 29:51
  he's so full of shit. This guy.
• 29:55
  I just I could see where he could think both.
• 29:59
  I think he was feeling fear, I would guess.
• 30:01
  I mean, there's one second the the cuts between the shots are
• 30:06
  really, really fast. You don't have much time to like
• 30:08
  evaluate, you know, emotions. But there's one shot of him with
• 30:14
  Maul, like holding his face with the lightsaber to his face.
• 30:17
  And he's trying to like push Maul's hand away and they show
• 30:20
  his the front of his face and it's so freaked out.
• 30:24
  He's like twitching and like like kind of had this look of
• 30:28
  disgust on his face, but also like he's trying to like take in
• 30:32
  the information and keep a lightsaber from burning his face
• 30:35
  off at the same time. So it's just a lot happening in
• 30:39
  his world, right Then there's. Always a lot going on in Obi
• 30:44
  Wan's world and it usually involves Moll, damn him.
• 30:52
  I know well and like this is one of my favorite moments, if not
• 30:56
  my favorite moment from the whole show because of this,
• 30:58
  because of like the the levels that are going on.
• 31:01
  And then it turns into this awesome, you know, bantery duel
• 31:06
  with him and Ventress and it's really entertaining.
• 31:09
  But if you kind of remove that and just look at the setup, it's
• 31:13
  fucked up, dude. And it I have to laugh because
• 31:17
  it makes me wonder if, like, the writers were forced to pare it
• 31:20
  back to this, you know, like. That's a good idea too.
• 31:25
  I wonder. I wonder.
• 31:27
  They've implied in other episodes that they'll have an
• 31:29
  idea and bring it. And George Lucas is like, no,
• 31:32
  you got to like, cut it back to this part of the story.
• 31:35
  Like, we don't want to push too far.
• 31:36
  So I don't know. Do we ever get any other
• 31:42
  technically torturous moments in Star Wars?
• 31:46
  We get the stuff where the Jedi are like kind of subdued,
• 31:50
  Subdued. Excuse me?
• 31:52
  Yeah. Their powers are subdued through
• 31:55
  like the electrical handcuffs and and people are getting
• 31:58
  shocked left and right. They're electrocuted and stuff
• 32:00
  but. Yeah.
• 32:02
  I don't. There isn't like a moment where
• 32:03
  there's marked torture. There's.
• 32:08
  One well actually inside in Sigeria, Obi Wan is actually
• 32:12
  tortured in that. Oh God, obviously you're right.
• 32:16
  He's. Getting whipped in that how?
• 32:20
  Could I forget? I was gonna say I think he has a
• 32:25
  couple of times, but there's a Jedi that gets tortured to death
• 32:31
  in Grievous Intrigue, isn't it? No, it's not Grievous intrigue,
• 32:35
  although he, Master cough is tortured.
• 32:38
  Yes. It's the one where CAD Bane is
• 32:41
  looking for the list of kids. I almost I almost went with that
• 32:47
  episode moments in that episode, I almost did that there's.
• 32:50
  So many, honestly, we could do this series for a long time,
• 32:54
  like not a kid show 'cause there's so many instances where
• 32:57
  they pushed the envelope a bit. But yeah, on Anakin, I guess
• 33:02
  kind of gets shocked and tortured by Dooku a little bit
• 33:07
  and the Gungan scenario, whatever that.
• 33:11
  Oh yeah, but that I that, that one.
• 33:12
  I love that one though. I love that one.
• 33:16
  No, I'm not complaining. Oh, I know, but I I did ask the
• 33:20
  question. I should stay focused.
• 33:21
  You're right. If anyone's capable of doing it,
• 33:25
  it's mall without a blink of an eye.
• 33:28
  He would not even hesitate. He loved, he loved watching Obi
• 33:32
  Wan see Sateen die and he took great pleasure in that.
• 33:37
  But I think he got distracted and and things happened and
• 33:40
  everyone had to move on. But like he didn't quite get the
• 33:43
  reaction out of Obi Wan that he wanted, but he did get like some
• 33:46
  reaction. Yeah, true.
• 33:48
  Well, and he wanted to just imprison him after that, so we
• 33:50
  had to live with it. And it's like you picked the
• 33:53
  wrong Jedi. He was over it in like 15
• 33:56
  minutes. Don't.
• 33:57
  Don't worry about it. Totally.
• 33:59
  I mean, he'll he'll carry it. He'll carry it his entire life.
• 34:02
  But he's he's got it. He's going to move on.
• 34:04
  He's got other shit to do. That's Obi Wan.
• 34:06
  That's the way he is, as we've talked about like many times in
• 34:10
  this in this show. But I, yeah, I don't know.
• 34:14
  It's a really small moment. So it's not like a huge
• 34:16
  implication of anything much bigger.
• 34:18
  It's just one of those moments where it stopped me in my tracks
• 34:21
  when I was watching it the first time.
• 34:23
  It's like. Yeah.
• 34:24
  And it comes shortly after the Sigerian arc.
• 34:27
  So it's just I think even whammy James said something about how
• 34:31
  he he made some comment in season 3 and then they paid him
• 34:37
  back by making Obi Wan just kind of like suffer all of season 4.
• 34:43
  Obi Wan really needed that nap after the.
• 34:46
  That season. Exactly.
• 34:48
  I mean he spent like half the season just doing Obi Wan sound
• 34:52
  effects of him getting punched in the face having no dialogue
• 34:56
  at all. Oh God, he got beat up in the
• 35:00
  Sigerian arc. He did.
• 35:03
  That was actually my choice for the original, not a kid.
• 35:06
  Show we wanted, yeah, we had Christian.
• 35:08
  That's OK That's a good one. I mean all angles of it.
• 35:13
  Yeah, I mean, it was, it's it's gruesome, but this is so
• 35:17
  personal. It's so like the the violence is
• 35:20
  so personal and I guess they they kind of shuffle off of it
• 35:27
  by having the little tongue in cheek conversation with
• 35:30
  Ventress, but. Yeah, they do pivot, so there's
• 35:33
  some relief and no one's thinking about it for very long.
• 35:37
  But still, yeah, but they went there and there's more.
• 35:41
  Like there's more in that episode, you know, about how Obi
• 35:44
  Wan gets angry and all of that. But I think it would be fun to
• 35:47
  do the revenge. And is it revival?
• 35:52
  Is that the one that comes after?
• 35:54
  One is the end of Season 4 and one is the beginning of Season
• 35:57
  5. So I always kind of like get the
• 35:58
  names mixed up, but I think those would be fun to do at some
• 36:01
  point in the future. But yeah, that's my choice.
• 36:04
  I thought it was very dark. Not a kid show.
• 36:07
  Very dark. Not for kids.
• 36:11
  Not great for adults either. Very dark.
• 36:17
  But also very well done. Oh yeah, totally, totally.
• 36:28
  Our question to you for this episode is what are some moments
• 36:33
  that you think are definitely not kids show moments in The
• 36:39
  Clone Wars? You have lots to pick from.
• 36:42
  Yeah, very many to pick from. So we're curious what comes to
• 36:45
  your mind when you think, uh, uh, not a kids show?
• 36:48
  Let us know on social media, on our website, or on Patreon.
• 36:54
  And join us next time we are going to talk about Dark Jedi.
• 36:58
  I'm really excited to talk about this.
• 37:01
  I want to learn all about the Dark Jedi.
• 37:03
  We've already done an episode about the controversial Grey
• 37:06
  Jedi, so we figured we'd go 1 darker and see what what is the
• 37:11
  Dark Jedi and who would qualify as one.
• 37:15
  So join us back next time for that.
• 37:21
  Thank you so much for joining us here on the Most Things Kenobi
• 37:24
  podcast. If you would like to support the
• 37:26
  podcast by becoming a patron, head over to the Most Things
• 37:29
  Kenobi Patreon. You can also interact with us on
• 37:32
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• 37:37
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• 37:39
  your favorite podcast player. If you enjoy our podcast, feel
• 37:42
  free to rate US on Spotify and Apple.
• 37:45
  And if you need one place to find all of these, head over to
• 37:48
  Most Things kenobi.com. So until next time, Myspace
• 37:53
  Twin, may the Force be with you. Always.