Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / David Somerfleck | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #51 |

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David Somerfleck | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #51 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian we've
• 0:04
  podcast. Today's guest is an Enterprise
• 0:07
  digital marketing specialist. He's a founder of a company
• 0:11
  known as DMS blue. He's an author and he describes
• 0:15
  himself as being a star top expert.
• 0:18
  So yeah. Welcome to the show.
• 0:20
  Mr. David. Soma, Fleck.
• 0:22
  How's it going? It's going very well.
• 0:24
  Thank you for having me on Christian.
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  I appreciate it. Oh no.
• 0:28
  The pleasure is mine. Absolutely, I mean, I'm a big
• 0:31
  marketing guy. I've only had one other business
• 0:35
  owner on this podcast so far and it's nice for a change because I
• 0:40
  have a lot of different creatives different types of
• 0:42
  people on my podcast. But, you know, one of the things
• 0:46
  that I don't often talk about with my viewers, is that
• 0:51
  business and stuff, like, I've always been studying this, and
• 0:54
  obviously marketing is more of a recent thing for me.
• 0:57
  So it's good to have someone on the show.
• 0:59
  Who's No, in that sphere. And it's good to sort of pick
• 1:02
  your brain about a couple of things.
• 1:03
  So, yeah, but yeah, let's just get straight into things.
• 1:09
  How did you actually get into marketing and what the main
• 1:13
  things that you like about it? Sure.
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  Well, basically, I began in marketing.
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  Well, I mean, I like to give complete answers to people.
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  I don't like superficial responses, I don't think they're
• 1:29
  helpful. So, I mean, for me marketing,
• 1:32
  really began when I was in college working on a degree in
• 1:35
  English, I went to college to be a writer.
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  Yes, I saw the yeah. And while I was in college, I
• 1:42
  had several internships, which I recommend everybody.
• 1:45
  If your college student get internships, just make sure that
• 1:49
  you either get college credit and/or payment, don't work for
• 1:54
  free. And don't, don't do it if
• 1:55
  they're not going to cover your costs for college, okay?
• 2:00
  But, anyway, while I was in college working toward a ba in
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  English, with an emphasis in creative writing, I began
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  studying web design and internet marketing.
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  In this was while the internet is we now know, it was still
• 2:13
  very new. So back then we had Yahoo exite
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  Dogpile, which I don't even know if it's around anymore.
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  I should look it up but that's where I began.
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  You know, building websites for local small.
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  Owners is a way to make extra income while I was in college
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  and hustling like crazy working. These internships in a full-time
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  student and later on, I remember in college you to my wife, we
• 2:44
  were then dating and she would come to the university computer
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  lab and she would come and say, you know, look it's 10 p.m. come
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  home. Even have to get up at 5 a.m.,
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  you know, come on. You'd like to get a thing called
• 2:57
  Sleep. Everyone saw and I found
• 3:01
  studying code and I'm not a great coner a mediocre color.
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  Well, I found it studying HTML and JavaScript back then was
• 3:11
  actually relaxing for me. It helped me sleep because I
• 3:16
  couldn't really read for pleasure.
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  Reading Chaucer, Keats Shelley Shakespeare buyer, and you know,
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  medieval journalism and were diagramming sentences, but I
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  didn't really enjoy it. Because they had flensed any Joy
• 3:33
  of writing or reading out of me at that point.
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  I was taking some graduate-level courses to just for fun and so I
• 3:40
  didn't really enjoy it anymore. And, of course, now I'm trying
• 3:44
  to get back to that but once I graduated, I look for jobs at
• 3:49
  local newspapers and they all basically said, look without a
• 3:52
  Masters or some kind of inside connections, you're not getting
• 3:56
  in. So then I went to marketing
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  agencies and as someone who was fairly proficient in web design
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  and online marketing back then because it was still relatively.
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  So, knew I could go to marketing agencies work as a copywriter as
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  an editor. But also say, look, I can build
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  websites for companies that want it at that time.
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  So, that's how I got started. And then I began working for
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  different marketing agencies, ad agencies in between, I would
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  work as a freelancer or in consultant contractor.
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  So I've been around for quite some time.
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  I used to have a nice long hair just like you and then I started
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  getting these things, 20 bills I had Anna.
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  And yeah, I kind of I guess when I was, when I was looking at
• 4:48
  your, your LinkedIn and looking at, yeah, this, this creative
• 4:52
  degree and then obviously the transition to business.
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  Like, that's something I can relate to completely, you know,
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  I'm obviously creatively, creatively minded.
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  And that's why I chose to study marketing at University and just
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  so many of those things that your list enough, I can relate
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  to. Like, for me, I think what
• 5:09
  killed My Kind of Love of reading.
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  For some time was having to read these journals It was a one line
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  based, which is a benefit of, you know, the time that I went
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  to University. I mean, I think I can't even
• 5:24
  fathom going to University that say 30 years ago because it was,
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  you know, there were a lot of things that I looked at with my
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  course and thought, yeah, this is we're very lucky in the
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  position we're in right now, but with that being said, yeah,
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  these research journals. You know, I mean, I the thing
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  is, I understand if you're studying something like history
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  or creative writing but with with Marketing management and
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  Mark and just business management in general.
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  It was it was very confusing because you would have these
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  these professional journals that were very, very scientific
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  because it was a research base University, which I understood,
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  but they were written in such a way that really verbose like
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  unnecessary wording technical terminology.
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  So you'd have to spend like a good It's a couple of hours just
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  figuring out what they're saying.
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  Yes and then looking into the substance of what they're saying
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  and often it would just be really kind of sorry to say but
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  like stuff that didn't really have much substance you know
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  just be like a you just theory-based like our maybe this
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  is the case, maybe not. But one thing I did find that, I
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  always found really weird was that if the whole perspective is
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  too, On of study what works? Here's a good example, right?
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  It looked heavily into things like Scientific Management
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  versus human relations Theory and stuff like that.
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  Now, stuff like that made perfect sense.
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  I could think back to job side had over the years and even to
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  this day and think like what works in a business environment,
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  what dozen but in there will be other things.
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  We would be studying and I'd be like this has no practical
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  application to actual marketing and business.
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  And stuff and it's like that's where I'd get kind of confused
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  about you know, why they were doing all these studies and and
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  papers on something that isn't actually being used.
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  That kind of blew my mind a little bit.
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  Well yeah you looking for Relevant.
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  Yeah. I know what is what how is this
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  relevant to me as an individual? You know, trying to make his way
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  in the world right now and so much of it?
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  Like Pomp and Circumstance or smoking mirrors and not
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  immediately relevant to where you are in Life or even where
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  you want to be. And I think, you know, when you
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  talk about education, they have a profound need to be not just
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  informative and educational but also entertaining, even if it's
• 8:09
  there. I'm not saying they have to sing
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  and dance but they have to be entertaining in terms of it
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  being digested. Suitable material that you are.
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  That you can't exactly make it more receptive.
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  You know, I mean, against, you know, diagramming sentences is
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  not really fun when you want to be your writer.
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  You can understand, you know, maybe now decades later, I can
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  see the importance of knowing how to structure sentence.
• 8:41
  Hmm, But do I do it all the time correctly?
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  I mean, I just, you know, I just Just opined, I just said a
• 8:51
  grammatically incorrect sentence.
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  We don't all speak correctly, all of the time, just as if you
• 8:58
  wanted to be an actor and you take acting classes on you study
• 9:02
  a speech in movement and posture and lighting you don't act like
• 9:09
  that all the time. 24 hours a day, you can't live your life
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  like that. So I think the importance of
• 9:17
  education is to kind of give you More doubt.
• 9:21
  Yeah, I can't continue agree with you all night, I think that
• 9:24
  like the way that I write to clients and people in emails is
• 9:28
  completely different to how I speak.
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  And like, I would imagine that if I would speak to people the
• 9:34
  way that I do in emails. Pardon my language, I'll
• 9:37
  probably end up pissing some people off by doing that because
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  it's, you know, I mean, it's very, its kind of, it depends
• 9:42
  like some people, their stuff. Some people out there that do
• 9:45
  use these complex terms in everyday conversation, but it's
• 9:48
  It's more novel. I do it all the time and I have
• 9:51
  to say be who you are because the more the more authentic you
• 9:57
  hear this term bandied about all the time every day, you know,
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  who are you, who is your authentic self?
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  But let's get real for the most part.
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  It's a lot of bull, it's marked and collateral, it's one more
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  blog post. It's one more little mini
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  course. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors
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  Pomp and Circumstances, they say that is devoid.
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  Of meaning. You know, one of my favorite old
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  movies is based on a play called educating Rita.
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  If you like art films, I recommend it and it's a great
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  little play with Michael. Caine, I forget the woman's name
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  and he plays an English professor and he meets his
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  hard-working, you know, tough-as-nails woman.
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  Who wants to, she realizes that her life working in hair salons
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  and you know, dating abuse of men.
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  This isn't where it's at for her.
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  So she's trying to find some other meaning and it's all
• 10:53
  about, you know, this relationship but also how she
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  grows as a person by studying the classics, and it's not that,
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  you know, fancy phrases. It's all about looking Inward
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  and reflecting on what you value as opposed to what you do not
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  and why what does this mean about you as a human being?
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  And these are all important questions.
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  So when we talk about authenticity, It's not a cute
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  little catch phrase, so what is it?
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  Mean it really means that you're trying to find out who you are
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  as a human. When everybody else around, you
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  is gravitating toward the next bright, shiny object, or how can
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  I get attention and be a celebrity for a day on
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  Instagram? You know, before the next social
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  media channel comes along or they do something to embarrass
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  themselves online, like whatever they, you know, the league.
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  Person is done, you know, where they worship, you know, some
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  false idol. I won't get into politics, but
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  if you understand the reference, you know who you are, but it's
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  all about the truer, you the more true you are to yourself
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  and who you are. Ultimately the happier you'll be
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  in the happier, you'll be people who are going to resonate with
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  that message will resonate within those who won't hurt for
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  you. And that's really that your
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  definition where they talk about Niche marketing.
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  That's half of Niche marketing right there.
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  My audience. My ideal customer client,
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  they're not people who need everything given to them.
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  Simply. You know, if you want, simple
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  writing, I can recommend many. You know, I use my vocabulary.
• 12:39
  When I respond to emails, I try to keep it short and succinct,
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  but I write in my voice. It's conversational.
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  If usually how I feel you can usually tell I filled your how I
• 12:50
  write and I respond to emails that just copy the BS.
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  You know, I've started blogging more regularly even though I
• 12:59
  don't need to, you know, just because we're in a global
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  pandemic it is good to start writing again.
• 13:07
  You know I rediscovered my love of the writers who speak.
• 13:11
  Who spoke to me as a child are the same writers who speak to
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  me. The doll.
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  Why is that? Because I grew up reading them.
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  Hello, you know I grew up, loving, Italian food.
• 13:22
  I'm still going to love Italian food.
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  I think the trouble is that there's so many kind of schools
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  of thought, when it comes to like, how to communicate within
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  a business saying, you know, I've worked for some companies
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  who would never ever, dream of being in any way, like informal,
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  which I understand. Because a lot of the time, you
• 13:43
  know, how you speak, how you? They particularly if it's a
• 13:47
  business people obviously perceive you in a certain way.
• 13:50
  So if they see something that kind of falls out of what they
• 13:54
  expect, then air creates like a kind of a bit of a contradiction
• 13:58
  I suppose or a bit of a weird Paradox where it's like hang on
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  that. That's not like the company that
• 14:02
  I know, or whatever. But then if it's with
• 14:05
  individuals, as you said like, you know, if you're being more
• 14:09
  personable trying to cut through the bullshit and just get to the
• 14:11
  point, then yeah, like being personable is so important.
• 14:16
  Look, I remember in one of the roles that I had.
• 14:18
  I did a lot of Outreach which is just a fancy way of saying,
• 14:22
  like, sending out emails, basically or reduce those people
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  and social media. And I found that the most
• 14:29
  effective ones were obviously where, you know, you keep it
• 14:34
  short like you said and you kind of a more personable, you talk
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  about, okay? Like for example, if if I'm
• 14:41
  reaching out to someone on social media maybe like it let's
• 14:45
  say I was reaching out to you. You on LinkedIn.
• 14:48
  I would mention a couple of things about your business.
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  Something that means something to you, you know, I would try
• 14:54
  and get a conversation going rather than just straight up be
• 14:57
  like, here's my proposal. Do you want it?
• 15:00
  Or you know, here's what I want. Right off the bat.
• 15:03
  You know, that you got to build that kind of relationship that
• 15:07
  that certainly seems to be the kind of main Trend I suppose as
• 15:14
  far as like marketing is concerned.
• 15:16
  On social media and email marketing and such.
• 15:20
  And I would say it's largely ineffective and really quite
• 15:22
  annoying actually, because I'm personable approach.
• 15:27
  Yeah, it's annoying, because it's not who they are.
• 15:31
  You know, if you're active on, let me submit to you.
• 15:36
  It's all in the execution because I'm on LinkedIn.
• 15:41
  I'm on Twitter. I respond to almost everyone who
• 15:45
  contacts me off. Authentically.
• 15:47
  But I get emails through Linkedin old family daily basis.
• 15:51
  Clearly came. Yes it's always a sales pitch, I
• 15:55
  have this software, I have this tool I'd like to partner with
• 15:59
  you. Can we have a meeting?
• 16:00
  No, we can't have a meeting, I don't know who you are.
• 16:03
  I got things I want to do. I've got two things.
• 16:06
  Look, I've got books to read. I don't know if I could show you
• 16:09
  this here on your lovely podcast.
• 16:12
  Okay, okay, I got Kurt Vonnegut. I've got Philip K dick.
• 16:17
  I've got the great Ray Brown, he's great.
• 16:19
  Yeah, I've got some gold in. I've got a dictionary of
• 16:25
  aphorisms Joomla Drupal, you know, I've got books on
• 16:32
  philosophy. Look, these are other things I
• 16:35
  want to work on. I don't have time to hear.
• 16:37
  Someone's a pitch. You know.
• 16:41
  It just Just enough is enough. And honestly, you shouldn't be
• 16:44
  pitching to me. You should be pitching to a
• 16:47
  banker or someone at a credit union, not Mia and really you're
• 16:53
  in. It's also preparing a proposal
• 16:56
  submitting to an organization not random people on social
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  media. That doesn't work and I don't
• 17:04
  misrepresent myself to anyone. I always say, look, I'm retired,
• 17:09
  I love the work, I don't The money.
• 17:12
  Thank God every day. I say, thank you.
• 17:14
  God. I don't need the money.
• 17:15
  I don't have to chase after clients.
• 17:17
  Like I was doing as a freelancer or either working for agencies.
• 17:21
  I can tell the agency manager to go take a running leap but
• 17:26
  that's it's in. It's a wonderful place to be
• 17:28
  them. Very, very grateful for but
• 17:30
  especially now but the more authentic, you are, the happier,
• 17:34
  you will be in happier. You are the better, your
• 17:37
  marketing will be because people read it and resonate with it.
• 17:41
  I think Marketers out there who write beautiful copy.
• 17:46
  And when you read it, you'll know it because you'll see my
• 17:48
  God, this is really actually good.
• 17:51
  As opposed to just more pabulum another aspect, I want to add to
• 17:56
  this as well, which I feel is very important is that you I
• 17:59
  mean, you briefly touched on it with the fact that you know, you
• 18:02
  only have so much time there. Things you want to be doing Etc
• 18:05
  but the time factor is such a big thing.
• 18:08
  I mean, if you think about like, yeah but like how much a person
• 18:13
  has to do every day, a business has to do every day like you've
• 18:17
  really got a factor that in when your messaging people because
• 18:20
  and especially with Pictures. Like I get them a lot through
• 18:24
  Linkedin and I'll be on it. Like the ones that really
• 18:26
  irritate me. Other sponsored ones in
• 18:28
  particular. I never read them.
• 18:31
  It's like, you said, if there's nothing authentic about it, even
• 18:36
  when it is authentic, even when it is someone reaching out like,
• 18:39
  no, seriously, like I don't like how.
• 18:42
  He's just like, oh hey, here's this thing.
• 18:44
  I'm working on. It's like why should I care like
• 18:48
  give me a reason to care, like, invest your time.
• 18:51
  Time and energy into me and then maybe I'll invest my time and
• 18:54
  energy into you. There was an accountant who I
• 18:58
  thought he was a local accountant.
• 19:01
  Look like a nice enough person was some reason about for
• 19:04
  connecting a camera. What?
• 19:06
  It was, maybe he reached out to me, so I connected.
• 19:09
  Okay, fine. He sends me a video introduction
• 19:12
  on LinkedIn. He's literally going like this.
• 19:15
  I like that. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I
• 19:18
  don't know you, you know, look If you had sent me a brief
• 19:23
  message saying hi, David. Thank you for kidnapping.
• 19:26
  How are you doing today? Leave it at that then I would
• 19:31
  respond back and say I'm doing well.
• 19:34
  Thank you for asking. How are you?
• 19:38
  You see you started a conversation amongst adults and
• 19:42
  if you walking down the street before covid, nobody would come
• 19:46
  up to you and say hi. Christian.
• 19:48
  I'm selling this look. Can I schedule a meeting with
• 19:52
  you? You'd be like, get away from me.
• 19:55
  Right. You know it's just annoying and
• 19:59
  that's why, you know, before covid, I would go to networking
• 20:02
  events out of habit and people would come up and say, you know,
• 20:05
  I own the local pesticide company or something.
• 20:08
  Here's my card and like well okay I'll put it in a circular
• 20:11
  file. Yeah, it's like it doesn't
• 20:15
  understand especially at networking event.
• 20:18
  Like that's your best chance right there to get to get a
• 20:22
  pucker personal interaction because They don't work, they
• 20:26
  don't work. You get me.
• 20:27
  It's because of that exact reason because like for
• 20:30
  instance, if I was going to approach you, there's something
• 20:32
  if I'm going to come up to you at that event, I'm gonna strike
• 20:35
  a conversation. I'm going to say, hey I really
• 20:38
  enjoyed your talk like once blah blah blah.
• 20:42
  We get talking and then maybe halfway through the conversation
• 20:45
  you might ask me about what I do or maybe, you know, there's like
• 20:49
  a sensible area where I can drop it in and then it's like, oh
• 20:53
  hey, I'm going to Remember this guy and I might even contact him
• 20:57
  later because there's a personal connection there.
• 20:59
  Whereas, if it's just like, oh, hey, here's my card to start,
• 21:01
  huh? Add that to the other 50 cards.
• 21:04
  I've got, you know, what, when I before covid and everything in
• 21:09
  before I officially come out my hair, when I was acting when I
• 21:15
  got, let's see this as an independent person, not working
• 21:19
  for marketing agencies, when I enrolled to most clients what?
• 21:24
  I met the most people when I get the most effective networking
• 21:29
  and when I made the most money, really other than working with
• 21:34
  clients is independent was when I was teaching all day boot
• 21:38
  camps and workshops, you know at your local library, I would
• 21:45
  teach for our boot camps and I would yeah.
• 21:48
  And yes, I would have my, you know, glass of Red Bull or rock
• 21:53
  star and They were quite exhaustive but the reason I did
• 21:57
  four hours was because morally I felt that look, I can charge
• 22:04
  basically whatever I want and feel justified in.
• 22:07
  So doing if I charge $200 or $150 or 99.9, 20 $99.99 special,
• 22:18
  I felt justified in doing it because I knew that the
• 22:21
  information imparted was valuable.
• 22:23
  It was Give it exhaust game in between, people would come up to
• 22:29
  me until I have questions. I have concerns or I'm just not
• 22:33
  sure. Can I give you my car?
• 22:36
  Can we talk later on? So sure.
• 22:37
  Sure. Put it in the fish bowl because
• 22:40
  that's what it was. Therefore if we also had email
• 22:44
  addresses we also had all this other information, so if someone
• 22:48
  said something to me in the past and I could say that's fine,
• 22:52
  right? Give your name to my lovely
• 22:54
  wife. Life in the back in the back
• 22:56
  there and we'll get in touch. See you on the way out bye-bye
• 23:01
  and we could do it like that. Now I could pay the mortgage in
• 23:05
  one day and that was great. But the reason that work was
• 23:11
  because it was authentic, I'm coming to this situation from
• 23:15
  the position of being a teacher. Not, I mean, the only reason I
• 23:20
  say I'm an expert is because what is the definition of an
• 23:22
  expert? Someone who knows what they're
• 23:25
  doing. It did it for a living, right?
• 23:27
  I don't say I'm better. Other than anyone else.
• 23:31
  But after 20 years, yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying
• 23:35
  freaking expert. Now, you know, several hundred
• 23:38
  business owners. Okay?
• 23:39
  Yeah, yeah, that makes me an expert.
• 23:41
  I don't know everything, but I'll either know the answer or
• 23:45
  on know how to find it. But it's important to me to come
• 23:48
  from a perspective of Truth and truthfulness and being at all as
• 23:52
  authentic as you can. So but that's why networking
• 23:57
  doesn't work because You're taking random people and
• 24:00
  throwing them together and they're all trying to make
• 24:03
  money. There's nothing wrong with that,
• 24:07
  but they're not connecting on a humanistic level who are you as
• 24:11
  a human being Christian? Maybe I really want to know and
• 24:16
  whoever you talk to how are you doing?
• 24:19
  And really ask what if they say, you know I'm doing lousy right
• 24:23
  now. There's a global pandemic and
• 24:25
  maybe they're not sure if it's real or not because they're
• 24:28
  getting mixed messages from people.
• 24:30
  They idolize or look up to or maybe they do believe it's real
• 24:33
  and they don't know. What to do, whether they feel
• 24:36
  trapped at home and they don't know what to do or they're
• 24:40
  confused about what their future is going to be.
• 24:42
  Like, that's got to be a difficult conversation, let's be
• 24:45
  honest. Some people don't want to have
• 24:46
  that conversation, you know. Some people are capable of
• 24:50
  having a conversation, you know I'm sure you've met people who
• 24:53
  aren't capable of having that kind of depth, is there
• 24:56
  discussion, right? But that's we have to be willing
• 24:58
  to have that. We have to be willing to take
• 25:00
  the mask away. You know, there's one of my
• 25:03
  favorite episodes. Loads of the old Twilight Zone
• 25:05
  show, I forget what it was called, but there's an episode
• 25:10
  where someone is dying and they're leaving.
• 25:13
  They're there with their assets, you know, to their family
• 25:19
  members who are hovering around them, waiting for them to die
• 25:22
  and it's Mardi Gras. Chimed in New Orleans or
• 25:25
  something and they somehow or other.
• 25:28
  I don't remember the exact plot but somehow or other they put on
• 25:30
  these masks of avarice and all this stuff and Lee sins, right?
• 25:35
  And it's the Twilight Zone. So of course a mask smelled to
• 25:40
  their faces or something you know so which of the seven
• 25:44
  deadly sins, they represent forever you know on their faces
• 25:50
  and we have to be willing to take that mask off and be
• 25:54
  vulnerable and if you really want to be authentic.
• 25:58
  So you know what? I tell everybody, you know who I
• 26:01
  am and what I am and what I do and how I were work and why?
• 26:05
  And there's no question anybody could have that.
• 26:07
  I don't have an answer for and if you don't like the answer,
• 26:11
  that's perfectly fine, I'm not for you.
• 26:13
  God bless you. Have a nice day.
• 26:17
  I don't want to work with someone who is who can't see
• 26:19
  through that, you know. And that gives you a, you coming
• 26:22
  from a position of strength, real strength, not bench,
• 26:26
  pressing 300, but a different type of strength that I would
• 26:29
  posit is much more important. I write the way I speak.
• 26:34
  I remember when I saw it in my life, it was when I was studying
• 26:40
  my degree or when I first started working in marketing,
• 26:43
  but I think everyone goes through that.
• 26:45
  That initial stage of being inauthentic, I mean it's not
• 26:49
  necessarily inauthentic, but it's kind of like, you know,
• 26:53
  you're trying to put on the best version of yourself, you know
• 26:56
  what I mean? And it all it will extend to
• 26:58
  everything not just business but you know like in a relationship
• 27:02
  or something in a friendship, you always try and put on the
• 27:04
  best version of what you imagine.
• 27:08
  The other person is going to like but obviously as we've
• 27:12
  discussed that's the wrong thing to do but there's almost like
• 27:15
  this expectation. So say that again there's a
• 27:20
  middle ground Christian. You know I was at the Greeks who
• 27:22
  caught talked about the golden mean not too high not too low,
• 27:27
  right? Yeah.
• 27:28
  But like what was going to say is that there's like I fell at
• 27:32
  least there's an expectation from companies.
• 27:34
  Like I still feel it like you know, I've been unemployed for
• 27:37
  Quite most of this year now. Ginger, and I've look, let's
• 27:42
  let's change it. That's working on it, but nobody
• 27:44
  hit me out like, in that time, obviously, I've been
• 27:48
  freelancing, I've been freelancing for like two years
• 27:50
  now. So I've always been hustling
• 27:52
  doing stuff and one of the things that I did was I changed
• 27:58
  and I did this a couple of years ago, but I've really done it
• 28:02
  now, which is where if I'm talking to a company.
• 28:05
  If I'm talking to people on the phone, if there's an If there's
• 28:07
  any kind of a situation like that, what I do is I'm just very
• 28:12
  honest with my what I want, what I expect, what I can do, you
• 28:16
  know, I just cut through to the point and what I've noticed is
• 28:20
  that like probably 30% of people, I speak to reciprocate
• 28:25
  that they like the honesty. They like that.
• 28:27
  They put their guard down a little bit and you get
• 28:30
  somewhere, but the wider 70% or like shaken, almost like you've
• 28:37
  rattled. The case like one or you're not,
• 28:39
  you're not acting in in the agreed manner that we're all
• 28:42
  supposed to act. What is this?
• 28:44
  You're not professional. And it's like Inland.
• 28:47
  No, it won't work. But the reality is, if it won't
• 28:52
  work, it won't work for a reason and it's a good reason.
• 28:55
  They're not feeling what you're sending out.
• 28:58
  That's perfectly fine, right? I met women before I met my
• 29:03
  wife, who said, look, I don't like tall skinny ball-headed
• 29:05
  guys, who talk too much. Which it, which is fine in this
• 29:12
  ABC. But here's the thing, when we
• 29:16
  talk about finding gainful employee again, the more
• 29:19
  authentic, you are the happier, you'll be right.
• 29:22
  Also, the types of positions that you apply for will be more
• 29:27
  in line with who you really are as human.
• 29:30
  Yes. As a bar, is a biped in this
• 29:32
  world, trying to find your way, don't apply for jobs as a
• 29:36
  copyright. Sir, if you really love that
• 29:38
  it--and don't apply for editing jobs if you really would, rather
• 29:41
  teach English to cute little kids in China, let's be real but
• 29:46
  it's the same, take the same job.
• 29:48
  They will be different in different companies depending on
• 29:52
  Salute. You'd, you know, because some of
• 29:54
  them are like kind of, you know, as we've discussed a bit more
• 30:00
  personable, you know, authentic, whereas I feel like The Wider
• 30:03
  majority and this is kind of what I'm trying to say is like
• 30:06
  there's this like In business. I feel like this kind of people
• 30:11
  label it as professionalism, but in time yeah it's like pseudo
• 30:17
  it's like it's like this big lie that everyone participates in
• 30:22
  and like I remember seeing it very clearly when I was in my
• 30:26
  second year of University, I'll never forget this.
• 30:28
  I was in the lecture hall. I was looking around at everyone
• 30:32
  and you know everyone's dressed in suits everyone strategy.
• 30:35
  That's just what people did, right?
• 30:36
  That's fine. But like, there was a wide
• 30:40
  majority of people that were almost like drone.
• 30:43
  Like, and those same people that have gone, right from kind of
• 30:49
  University into their career paths.
• 30:51
  Like if you try to kind of introduce them to anything other
• 30:56
  than the agreed-upon path or the kind of agreed upon way that one
• 31:01
  should act and do business, it's like them, they can't they don't
• 31:04
  get it. They think it's like almost been
• 31:07
  If they're more like out of too far out of the box to left
• 31:13
  field, something like that. I don't know.
• 31:15
  Yeah, I mean, who knows. When I was in college, I
• 31:19
  remember, I had two very, very different professors.
• 31:22
  Okay? And I don't remember their
• 31:25
  names, I wouldn't say even if I did, because this point, they're
• 31:28
  probably passed away, I had one Professor who can't remember
• 31:33
  what he taught think was medieval journalism, they be so
• 31:37
  anyway, I had two different professors so this one professor
• 31:43
  And again, I was a lot younger. So I'm experimenting with my
• 31:46
  vocabulary. I want to be the best writer
• 31:49
  that I could be. So my response is to these essay
• 31:53
  questions were quite long and I used an expansive vocabulary
• 31:58
  that would probably make you know, HP Lovecraft blush.
• 32:03
  So I'd quite an expansive vocabulary.
• 32:07
  He started marking words, he would take off 10.
• 32:11
  Points, if I used a vote, you know, a large vocabulary of
• 32:15
  learn. And so, he's, I remember my
• 32:18
  final exam he gave me like an f and I said, whoa, whoa, wait a
• 32:21
  minute here, tough guy. This isn't working.
• 32:24
  I know the answer is, you can't do that.
• 32:26
  So I went to the dean and I showed him the booklet that they
• 32:31
  give you. And I said this is not
• 32:33
  appropriate. The answers are correct.
• 32:35
  You can't tell me, they are. We could document this and I
• 32:39
  said, you can't take off 10 points because you disagree.
• 32:42
  Is how I write. So I went back like four or five
• 32:45
  times each time I went back, they agreed that added an
• 32:50
  additional 10 points. So I finally went from being an
• 32:53
  F to a B+ and I said I'll leave it at that and made my point.
• 32:56
  This is 100% true. I used words such as
• 33:01
  antidisestablishmentarianism because I wanted to write in a
• 33:04
  flowery way. I was enjoying writing so it but
• 33:09
  he also was he would Jerome And on and on and on and I'll be
• 33:14
  very honest, I slept through most of that semester because a,
• 33:19
  he made me go to sleep. Yes.
• 33:22
  Or fall into a narcoleptic stupor but I knew, I knew what
• 33:26
  he was talking about and you I do the answers, it was quite
• 33:29
  simplistic material to me. Then I had another professor who
• 33:32
  taught Shakespeare he was extremely flamboyant extremely,
• 33:39
  he loved to dress up to the now. Don't spare them in the college
• 33:44
  class. He would come in with a
• 33:45
  beautiful silk tie. A rolling silk scarf of, very
• 33:50
  flowery silk scarf. All beautiful entire, you know,
• 33:55
  like Peter O'Toole great. He was so flamboyant that you
• 34:00
  King into classing, why can't wait to see what this guy does,
• 34:04
  you know, it's like an acrobat and a polio Liberty with just
• 34:08
  prance all around. He made entertaining since you
• 34:12
  could stay awake and enjoyed the class.
• 34:16
  What did I, you know, from the Shakespeare class?
• 34:18
  I really absorb the passion, it was communicated to me the other
• 34:24
  Professor, I don't even remember what the hell he taught, you
• 34:28
  know that in authentic - that Journey inward is what we're
• 34:33
  trying to get at. But when you talk about these
• 34:36
  agencies and these employers They're looking at people as
• 34:42
  assets. There's that term, human capital
• 34:45
  human resources that is dehumanizing and they don't see
• 34:50
  you as a human per se. They see you as a cog in the
• 34:53
  machine. Well, we need this collateral
• 34:56
  created to call marketing collateral.
• 34:58
  I like to see it as writing, you know, I don't see a blog post, I
• 35:01
  see it as a brief article, you know, or even a dispatch to the
• 35:05
  world where I am at this point in my life in this point.
• 35:08
  In time, you know, that's what they're doing.
• 35:12
  So that's why you apply for positions, but you don't even
• 35:15
  get a response or if you do it step, that at best.
• 35:18
  Because look, they promote from within 99.9 percent of the time,
• 35:22
  it's not reflection of you. It's a reflection of Manatee.
• 35:25
  At this time, they promote, from within most of the time, they
• 35:29
  hire based on who they know who they like, when I worked at
• 35:32
  agencies, there were people who I had no idea.
• 35:36
  WTF WTF they were doing, but they were in senior level
• 35:41
  positions because they were literally related to the owner
• 35:44
  of the agency where they were before they were dating, a
• 35:47
  particular project manager, and that's how it worked, the last
• 35:53
  agency that I interviewed at three or four years ago.
• 35:57
  I'll never forget. I actually took a photo when I
• 35:59
  walked in, when I walked into the agency, I took out my phone.
• 36:03
  I took a photo of the The photograph in the lobby and I
• 36:07
  texted it to my wife and I said, don't think I'll be getting this
• 36:10
  one but I'll go to the interview anyway.
• 36:14
  What it was was the owner of the agency was same age as me and he
• 36:20
  standing in the center, this Photograph and in the right and
• 36:24
  to the left, there were young women, looking at him, the door
• 36:28
  and lie, I'm very fondly. Okay, they now I've nothing
• 36:33
  against young people, they're all in their teens or early
• 36:36
  twenties, all women, no males. Okay.
• 36:39
  Yeah. And on their right under the he
• 36:41
  standing in the center of this photo like this, This.
• 36:45
  DLo looking quite pleased with himself as well.
• 36:47
  He should be and they're looking at him adoringly in the center
• 36:51
  line. If this doesn't communicate
• 36:53
  narcissism, I don't know what does.
• 36:56
  And then we went on to the interview, you know, where
• 37:00
  again, I was interviewed by two people in their twenties which
• 37:02
  again, nothing wrong with that. But I'm coming at this from a
• 37:06
  different perspective in life and from experience.
• 37:09
  So, okay, let's see how this goes and in the founder.
• 37:13
  Comes in. And he's looking at his phone,
• 37:15
  he's getting up every 10 seconds.
• 37:16
  If I had met him outside of the interview scenario, I don't
• 37:22
  think I would have punched him in the nose, but I probably
• 37:25
  would have said you and I don't have much in common.
• 37:29
  I do ask you a quick question about this because I find this
• 37:31
  absolutely please. Please, I remember years ago
• 37:35
  here in Mystic, and I don't know if this is actually accurate or
• 37:38
  not, but in my experience, I think it is, they say that in
• 37:42
  the first kind of 10-15 seconds of an interview, the decision
• 37:47
  has already been made and it's typically because of looks Vibe.
• 37:51
  As you say, like, we've been like the person Etc, when you
• 37:56
  walked into that room, like, Obviously, you know, I've had
• 38:00
  the same thing where you walk into a place you like.
• 38:02
  Yeah, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to even I don't like this
• 38:06
  job or they won't employ me and but you do it anyway because
• 38:10
  you're there and it's, you know, why not?
• 38:11
  Like, maybe you'll gain something from it but yeah, when
• 38:16
  you walked into that room, did they kind of look at you?
• 38:22
  You know, kind of dejectedly like that.
• 38:25
  They give you that Vibe of like here, you ain't got any chance
• 38:27
  or did they True to give you a kind of a shot to kind of sell
• 38:32
  yourself so to speak. Like well I mean let's remember
• 38:39
  to look at it from both perspectives so could I have
• 38:42
  been biased when I went into the interview?
• 38:45
  Possibly because I did feel discouraged when I saw that
• 38:48
  photo and I thought, well, this is a great physical location.
• 38:52
  They're the right down the street from my father, so, you
• 38:56
  know, I could go to work it. At this agency, feel extremely
• 39:01
  confident in my capabilities and you know, be five minutes from
• 39:05
  my father. I could pop in and visit him
• 39:07
  which was really my motivation actually, and you know, which
• 39:11
  was it served two purposes. That one I could do work that I
• 39:16
  enjoy worked on. I felt very confident and
• 39:19
  capable and doing what also was five minutes from my father.
• 39:22
  I could pop in and annoy him and check out at the same time, so I
• 39:26
  thought it would be a great fit for Of those reasons.
• 39:32
  So, I did want that job for those reasons, because it would
• 39:36
  be fun to do more than anything that would give me some, you
• 39:40
  know, vacation Silver's in my pocket, so to speak.
• 39:46
  But also, you know, make it very convenient to pop in on him and
• 39:49
  Rehab regularly and check on things.
• 39:52
  So, I did want that position. Now, when I went in for the
• 39:56
  interview, when you see the The founder of the organization
• 40:00
  checking his phone, everything s getting up and leaving actually
• 40:03
  and it coming back to be or four times during the interview you
• 40:07
  could tell it's completely disinterested.
• 40:09
  Now look is two adults with almost equal experience here.
• 40:15
  He was a head of an agency that his family had given him over
• 40:20
  the course of several generations.
• 40:22
  And here I am someone with at least equal experience, if not
• 40:27
  more. With either equal experience
• 40:30
  working for agencies, maybe a few years more, maybe a few
• 40:33
  years less, who knows, depending on our our pads.
• 40:38
  At the very least, we should have been respectful to each
• 40:40
  other. He should have been respectful.
• 40:41
  And just said, let me sit through this, you know, but I
• 40:47
  also went in intellectually knowing that the majority of
• 40:51
  agency positions and positions, total period people are promoted
• 40:56
  from within your promoted because you're dating someone or
• 41:01
  they're attracted to you. So that's the bulk of
• 41:05
  employment. Now with covid, the opportunity
• 41:10
  is that we can apply for positions remotely from the
• 41:14
  comfort of our own home. You could be working remotely,
• 41:18
  you know, eating a jar peanuts and having your glass of Red
• 41:21
  Bull or water and you know every four hours or so get up and go
• 41:28
  you know, do some exercises or something.
• 41:30
  So it's something that we can take advantage of oh they're
• 41:34
  more opportunities to work online remotely now than ever
• 41:37
  before. Before so that we can actually
• 41:39
  use that anonymity, you know? And when you are active on
• 41:43
  social media, bear in mind, if you intend to work remotely,
• 41:47
  you're going to look at what you look like, which should they do
• 41:51
  it? No, but they're going to so know
• 41:56
  that, you know, if you're an older person, if you're retired,
• 42:01
  then you're going to be discriminated against on the
• 42:03
  basis of your age. If you're minority person, will
• 42:07
  you be You know discriminated against probably, you know if
• 42:13
  it's possible that they can do it, then they probably will.
• 42:16
  So you have to take all these factors into consideration
• 42:19
  change your social media accordingly.
• 42:21
  You know if you're you know Caucasian guide your 20s you'll
• 42:25
  be seen differently than if you were a Caucasian person of
• 42:29
  color. Obviously I don't agree with
• 42:32
  that but I would submit to people take these factors into
• 42:36
  consideration and Plan accordingly don't give employer
• 42:41
  something that they could use against you.
• 42:44
  You know do you think it's worth saying that obviously not all
• 42:48
  companies think that way and you know certainly absolutely not
• 42:51
  alive but those who focus on those particular things, not
• 42:56
  just that the really horrible things but also just the kind of
• 42:59
  things like like they care a lot about your social media or that,
• 43:04
  you know, like that kind of bothers me like in the sense
• 43:07
  that like why does it matter what I'm at like online.
• 43:11
  You know limit like obviously there is a live show.
• 43:14
  Yeah, like if you're kind of in a position where you're actively
• 43:18
  representing the business, let's say you're in PR sale something
• 43:24
  like that. I do kind of understand that you
• 43:26
  need to have like a professional social media presence.
• 43:29
  I get that but like a lot of the time like a lot of marketing
• 43:32
  positions behind closed doors like it's like Jeremy, like it
• 43:36
  has nothing to do with anything. Like I'm pretty sure I'm not
• 43:40
  certain on this but I'm pretty sure that because I'm very
• 43:43
  active. If, with all the things that I
• 43:45
  do online, I'm pretty sure that that actually shoots myself in
• 43:49
  the foot and as far as like, getting marketing workers
• 43:52
  concern, but to tell you, that's the thing.
• 43:55
  I'm not bothered about it like because right, you know, and
• 44:01
  here's the thing, you can, you can do it both ways.
• 44:04
  You way, you do, as they ask for social media links or something.
• 44:07
  You don't have to give it to them.
• 44:09
  No. But don't look for any way is my
• 44:11
  point. Like, it doesn't matter if you
• 44:12
  give it to them, or not like people, I'm going to survive,
• 44:16
  right? And you conversely one way to
• 44:18
  combat that is to say I'm social media agnostic or control.
• 44:21
  What you put on social media. Of course, you know, I remember
• 44:26
  applying for position years ago, with a very large global company
• 44:32
  to go in for a position that I felt eminently qualified.
• 44:35
  For I knew I could do the job in my sleep.
• 44:38
  I literally it was worked at I enjoy doing or would enjoy
• 44:42
  doing, didn't The least little bit uncertain about it.
• 44:46
  I mean, it really, I would eat it for breakfast and I'll never
• 44:50
  forget the recruiter told me. He said, you seem to be too
• 44:55
  active. You seem to be too active.
• 44:59
  I don't think you would enjoy working in an office.
• 45:02
  Now, my response was Sir. I worked in offices for most of
• 45:05
  my adult life, for at least 30. 35 years, I worked in office
• 45:10
  environments. I never went bug f.
• 45:13
  Crazy. You know, obviously I have quite
• 45:17
  a number of references and testimonials and certificates
• 45:22
  and degrees. Obviously, I can work that
• 45:23
  office environment. It was a hollow response.
• 45:27
  He could have looked at me and said, you look too old and
• 45:30
  obviously you don't want to say that.
• 45:33
  So, whatever the response is, ultimately, it's like someone
• 45:37
  saying, you know what? Christian you seem like a nice
• 45:39
  guy but you're just not for me. I'm not going to do business
• 45:42
  with you. only do you whatever, you know, it's It's right, it's
• 45:49
  exactly my plea for the honesty, to be honest.
• 45:52
  Because at least I would have to, you know, it like I want to
• 45:55
  count how many times I've received email rejection emails,
• 45:59
  where it's just like, oh, yeah. You know, you don't have the
• 46:03
  experience or yeah, it's not the right fit and it's like they
• 46:05
  don't ever give you anything but you can make your own guesses as
• 46:09
  to why you didn't get it right. And I'll take this a step
• 46:12
  further to and when we're done with our podcast, talk to me for
• 46:16
  a couple of minutes. Afterward and I guarantee I can
• 46:20
  help you. Or at least I will give it my
• 46:23
  utmost and see what I can do to help you, okay?
• 46:27
  And I'll tell you how, here's what I, here's what I did and I
• 46:32
  would submit that it would still work today, okay?
• 46:36
  Compile a list of every freelance site that you can
• 46:40
  find, that's reputable. That is legitimate and not a
• 46:44
  Spam or scam or fishing type of website.
• 46:47
  Okay, so I have a list. I have a list and I don't even
• 46:52
  remember how many it is and I sell it on my site.
• 46:55
  Okay, I'm not going to do the hard sell at all, but here's the
• 46:59
  thing. You put together that list, then
• 47:03
  you refine it, give yourself, you know, a week or two, to
• 47:05
  refine it. And then what you do is you go
• 47:08
  to that same list in this was taken from a guy in red, it
• 47:12
  actually said the same thing, I can't remember his name.
• 47:15
  Well, it's really quite simple idea.
• 47:19
  You go through the list, you refine it.
• 47:22
  And then for every site that you can, you go to it and you create
• 47:24
  an account, you subscribe create alert.
• 47:27
  And every time you see a position that you like, you
• 47:30
  submit your resume, if it all possible, it every chance get
• 47:36
  into a personal discussion with them.
• 47:39
  This is good thing as well. My personal experience because
• 47:42
  I've done this a higher who day, right?
• 47:46
  I remember I had an offer from an agency that okay, there to
• 47:50
  offers I had from agencies that are rejected and I'll tell you
• 47:54
  why. There was one agency.
• 47:55
  I went to this was maybe 10 years ago.
• 47:59
  I think I do remember when this was that this was an agency
• 48:03
  while I was in town over and they had open houses we used in
• 48:08
  marketing, these call them. Me, we call them farming events
• 48:11
  because they were literally farming out for talent.
• 48:14
  And so, anyway, I learned to go to these open houses now.
• 48:18
  They don't do them now, maybe a year or two.
• 48:21
  From now, on people recover from covid and I have decided it's
• 48:24
  real or not, not wear a mask or they won't or they get
• 48:27
  vaccinated or they won't but a year or two from now on don't
• 48:30
  come to some kind of conclusion. And anyway they have these open
• 48:35
  houses all over the Denver area and you go To the open house and
• 48:40
  you would see guys playing pool. They would play darts, you'd see
• 48:46
  them walk around drinking carousing and hitting on each
• 48:50
  other. And so on now I knew You know,
• 48:54
  someone not in my 20s, I'm going to stand out, play some ball
• 48:58
  headed. So if I wear a bald cap, maybe
• 49:00
  I'll fit in a little bit better, wear a plaid shirt and so I'd go
• 49:04
  there and I knew that I'm like, I don't know.
• 49:07
  These guys, I don't really have anything in common.
• 49:09
  I could go there, get something to eat, right?
• 49:11
  Strike up conversation, here's what I did.
• 49:15
  I'd go to the offices, I'd look for people actually work in the
• 49:18
  offices and not drinking or carousing and I'd go in there.
• 49:23
  And I'd say, hey, how's it going?
• 49:24
  I'm here for the open house. Are you doing?
• 49:26
  What are you doing? And he said, you know, man, I'm
• 49:29
  really trying to get more work. Done a lifetime for PLC or
• 49:32
  whatever. Thank you, no.
• 49:33
  I told, I totally understand. I totally get it.
• 49:36
  I would legitimately really like, to learn more about what
• 49:40
  you do and talk shop and learn more about this company.
• 49:44
  Do you think maybe we could jump on a zoom call?
• 49:47
  Or maybe I could come by here sometime and take you out for a
• 49:51
  cup of coffee. Would you be amenable to that?
• 49:55
  And if I said it like that. Usually they'd say, yeah and I
• 49:58
  said, well great, let me get a card and I'll get in touch with
• 50:01
  you. And maybe I could take you out
• 50:03
  for lunch in a day or two. I'll take you wherever you want
• 50:04
  to go long as it's not a five-star hotel or take you
• 50:07
  anywhere you want to go. And I had a few offers from that
• 50:11
  and you talk to them two or three times, invite them out to
• 50:15
  play pool with you, the local pub or something.
• 50:18
  Now, do it authentically because if you don't like the person and
• 50:21
  you think they're, you know, Jerk or something.
• 50:23
  Don't do it right? Yeah I did that a few times I
• 50:27
  got offers Stay with offered me the job and there was another
• 50:33
  offer where I knew a guy who knew a person who worked at
• 50:37
  agency, and he said, let me make a call because they need people.
• 50:41
  I interviewed with one of the founders of the agency did.
• 50:45
  This is one of the founders of the agency.
• 50:47
  She could not explain to me, what SEO was when we talked.
• 50:52
  Wow, he didn't know she mazing. She knew what he commerce was,
• 50:57
  but she didn't know that you. Could charge for services or
• 51:01
  take reservations for Consulting appointments using e-commerce.
• 51:05
  And she was one of the chicken, one of the owners of the age of
• 51:07
  C, right? She didn't need to know.
• 51:10
  She didn't need to know because she's so sorry if you need, if
• 51:13
  you're, it doesn't matter. If sure learner of a company,
• 51:15
  you need a basic understanding of things, you should know, but
• 51:20
  she didn't, she signed a Chuck's.
• 51:22
  She kept the lights running, she kept the meat machine humming as
• 51:25
  they say, but my shadow, how can you not know though?
• 51:28
  Like In the sense that she wants to everything.
• 51:31
  Yeah. But you don't know like how
• 51:33
  effective the people under you are.
• 51:37
  Do you know what I mean? Like if it's working for you,
• 51:39
  like if you look if you look at your SEO team and you don't
• 51:42
  understand what they do, then you have no idea if you're under
• 51:46
  paying them, over pain them, if they're bringing in leads for
• 51:50
  you, if there's nothing for you, you got no idea.
• 51:52
  Like, that's crazy that this person would not know that.
• 51:55
  That's an hour and I'll check and I'll tell you, I've had Had
• 51:59
  I was a volunteer Mentor, certified small business Mentor,
• 52:04
  for a government agency off. And on, for about 10 years it
• 52:07
  would always blow my mind when I had large multimillion-dollar
• 52:11
  agencies. All of them family owned, and
• 52:14
  they would get in touch with me because they wanted my
• 52:16
  Consulting advice for free of course, because it was through
• 52:20
  government agency and I pee. Yeah, and I did it for a while
• 52:25
  because I thought it was fun. It was interesting and you could
• 52:27
  do networking. Through the minutes.
• 52:29
  Another thing I recommend you do is a way of reaching out.
• 52:36
  They had no idea technically nine times out of ten.
• 52:38
  They had no idea what was going on because they Outsource
• 52:42
  everything so they didn't know. So I had one agency.
• 52:47
  I'll say it was a multi million dollar marketing agency in
• 52:51
  Florida and a very affluent area where Judge Judy resides.
• 52:56
  So I'll leave it at that. Okay, multimillion-dollar
• 52:59
  agency, they had no idea they were losing clients left and
• 53:03
  right and the The person in charge said to me, this is what
• 53:11
  this is, the owner of the agency.
• 53:13
  She said we're losing clients left and right.
• 53:15
  We want to know more about this internet thing.
• 53:18
  We're not able to compete with these other agencies.
• 53:20
  Be sorry when when was this, when did this happen?
• 53:23
  This this was roughly and I don't want to pinpoint the
• 53:27
  person. I don't think I have I would say
• 53:29
  within the last five years and they said what forward, pretty
• 53:34
  much touch me with this internet thing.
• 53:37
  Right? How okay.
• 53:38
  How old was this person? Move out my age.
• 53:44
  I mean, were you like you like late 30s, early 40s, something
• 53:48
  like that. God, bless you.
• 53:50
  I'm a little bit now. So, so, so she was old enough to
• 53:54
  know what it what's going on, and she had no idea.
• 53:58
  She had no idea. So I said, that's fine, I'm
• 54:00
  happy to help you. Let's take a look at your
• 54:02
  company website. Let's, I'll be, I'm happy to,
• 54:07
  you know, as part of this. I'll give you my assessment.
• 54:11
  Take it or leave it, take it or leave it as it is.
• 54:14
  I told them what I recommended. And completely overhauling the
• 54:20
  agency to stop, looking at PR to stop looking at in-person
• 54:24
  networking events to stop spending all this advertising
• 54:27
  capital in physical newspapers, and yellow pages and billboards
• 54:32
  and to focus more on line. Do you online or you are and So
• 54:38
  she, you know, but but anyway, that's that was that experience.
• 54:43
  But, you know, I see it over and over again.
• 54:47
  It's it's you go back to looking inward.
• 54:52
  People aren't being honest about what they really want and who
• 54:56
  they really are employers can't tell you look, we discriminate.
• 55:01
  Big deal. They can't tell you that it's
• 55:03
  illegal so they make it look like they know they're trying to
• 55:06
  hire. They can't, you know, they can't
• 55:09
  say we're not hiring for anything because we're promoting
• 55:11
  from within for every this is what you meant before about that
• 55:14
  point is that while they are making external adverts, their
• 55:18
  intention is rarely to actually take someone externally, right?
• 55:23
  I mean, come on, they promote from within.
• 55:25
  I was a kind of work, did it? I worked at a university as a
• 55:29
  professor. I was in Journalism professor at
• 55:32
  a university that's the taught English at another University
• 55:36
  and I enjoyed the experience, but they always hired people,
• 55:42
  they knew over people who are eminently qualified, I've seen
• 55:47
  this, like I'm not disagreeing with you in the sliders, I'm
• 55:49
  just intrigued by that point that you made because it's it
• 55:52
  kind of almost suggests that life for the most part.
• 55:56
  External job adverts are just just done to say face.
• 56:01
  Just to kind of take a box and say, hey, yeah, we're doing what
• 56:03
  we need to do. But actually, we have no
• 56:05
  intention of bothering with these people.
• 56:08
  They have to they have to legally, they can't legally,
• 56:11
  they're not permitted to discriminate on the basis of age
• 56:15
  and gender and ethnicity and religion and other factors.
• 56:19
  But the we all know that they do and most jobs promote from
• 56:24
  within, that's been statistically born out.
• 56:27
  It's in multiple multiple sources.
• 56:29
  You can Google you Age discrimination gender and so on.
• 56:33
  And so, for sure. And I've Loved These articles.
• 56:36
  Yeah, so they do it. They're all pretty.
• 56:37
  You know, how many companies promote from within, you can
• 56:40
  type that into Google and find out.
• 56:43
  So what you have to do is find a coping mechanism, how do you
• 56:46
  deal with that? And the way you deal with that
• 56:49
  is shear is through sheer volume through sheer volume, how did I
• 56:54
  find positions working in marketing agencies?
• 56:58
  Well, I found positions at marketing, By going to events,
• 57:03
  holding events asking people to meet me for a cup of coffee or
• 57:07
  have a lunch somewhere, and trying to find out.
• 57:10
  Let's cut through the bullshit here.
• 57:12
  If I can use the expletive here you little, it's really talk is
• 57:17
  to uman beings here, who may or may not have mutual interests,
• 57:20
  and that's what we try to intersect.
• 57:23
  And if you have several interactions over a period of
• 57:27
  time, then they'll begin to see you as a human being.
• 57:30
  Being let their guard down. I'll never forget, I had a
• 57:34
  position at an agency wants where this was like 20 years
• 57:39
  ago. One of the people there wouldn't
• 57:43
  speak to me. He was cordial.
• 57:44
  You do. If you say good morning to him,
• 57:46
  he wouldn't just tell you to go, you know, jump off a bridge.
• 57:49
  But he would say like that and kind of, you know, wander away
• 57:53
  kind of mumbled something under his breath.
• 57:55
  Didn't say anything to me, really, which department did he
• 57:58
  work? And HR.
• 58:02
  Okay, which is the antithesis of human resources of course.
• 58:05
  And anyway I just I did in my experience the type of people
• 58:08
  that you've mentioned tend to work in like high tea or
• 58:10
  something because they're behind computers and they don't know
• 58:14
  how to talk to you, right? Yeah.
• 58:16
  Yeah. To Gig ask them if they'd like a
• 58:18
  monster, rock star a pizza. And so, with him, I remember,
• 58:25
  you know, we'd see each other be cordial, but he never speak to
• 58:27
  me. And after about 3 years,
• 58:32
  Finally, we started talking and I think what it was if he would
• 58:36
  bring his kids to work, sometimes it would help.
• 58:39
  You know, tickets to the Ball Game or whatever and I would
• 58:42
  always interact with his children or be polite or
• 58:45
  whatever. And something after happened
• 58:46
  after three years, where he would let the wall down and he
• 58:50
  was like, alright, alright, alright, you know, so what are
• 58:53
  you? What are you doing after work?
• 58:56
  Which was like a huge deal and I said, well, I don't know, I
• 59:00
  think I might go play a game of pool and maybe get some pizza
• 59:02
  before I head home, because it was a place down the road.
• 59:05
  That was quite good. They had a little pool table in
• 59:09
  the back and I liked it that time and you know, we'd watch a
• 59:12
  football game or boxing match or whatever.
• 59:15
  And so he's like what? Let me try that for a few
• 59:19
  minutes. That's alright.
• 59:22
  Alright, follow me and go see what it's like and we'll see if
• 59:25
  I You sound like you're talking to someone that's just like,
• 59:28
  never interacted with the person before this.
• 59:31
  Like, what this is, what happened.
• 59:34
  And so, it's been about 20 years later, we still keep in touch.
• 59:38
  Cool. You still sends me messages on
• 59:41
  Facebook and everything and he's a dear friend, you know, he's
• 59:45
  had a stroke and retired now and he's in bed most of his life.
• 59:52
  From what I can tell, he's on Facebook constantly 24 hours a
• 59:55
  day. Like a fiend with Facebook.
• 59:57
  Well, I'm still keep in touch, but that's my point.
• 1:00:01
  You try to break through this artifice that we have in society
• 1:00:05
  now. People are so people are.
• 1:00:09
  So in this concept of superficial things, the bright
• 1:00:14
  shiny object syndrome, the tool of the day, the hack of the day,
• 1:00:18
  the magical Guru has all the answers to all your pain, who
• 1:00:22
  has to answer that and you don't have to do any work at all.
• 1:00:26
  You'll be a millionaire overnight with no money down and
• 1:00:29
  people believe it because they want an easy answer.
• 1:00:32
  And complexity is the enemy. It doesn't work.
• 1:00:36
  Don't give your power away. And conversely, other people are
• 1:00:41
  going to give you their power and their influence away.
• 1:00:44
  And you have to find out are they really standing for
• 1:00:46
  something or are they full of dies and smoke and mirrors?
• 1:00:51
  So you know what, I would tell anybody, if you're out there
• 1:00:54
  struggling, my heart goes out to you, I know what it's like, put
• 1:00:58
  together your list, go through it every day, do what you can to
• 1:01:03
  break through that wall. Of resistance and try to connect
• 1:01:09
  with these people on the basis of what they really like, mutual
• 1:01:13
  help Mutual care and try to have two or three conversations with
• 1:01:17
  them face-to-face on Zoom, or Skype or WebEx, or there's one
• 1:01:21
  called whereby that I like you could go to Gypsy, you could go
• 1:01:24
  to whatever and try to have some video calls and conferences with
• 1:01:28
  people about things that you're mutually interested in and talk
• 1:01:32
  to them. So that all this pretense of BS,
• 1:01:35
  Is removed and then you can really cut.
• 1:01:37
  Do, can I work with them? Do they want?
• 1:01:40
  And need what? I could provide do, they value
• 1:01:43
  it? Sufficiently to pay a livable
• 1:01:44
  wage. You know.
• 1:01:46
  Are they really hiring? Are they just saying they're
• 1:01:48
  hiring? Let's talk about this connect
• 1:01:51
  with all these slack networks. And that's how you do it.
• 1:01:55
  And you do after three or four interactions.
• 1:01:57
  And you'll know, Insurance since you're given light tips and
• 1:02:02
  advice out here. I think it's a good time to ask
• 1:02:04
  you this question. What are some easy ways to grow
• 1:02:08
  a business successfully? It's a tough nut to crack.
• 1:02:13
  I mean, there's no and I think that's why you have that little
• 1:02:16
  thing smile on your face, there's no Tufts, there's no
• 1:02:20
  single answer for everyone. What is the best way to to start
• 1:02:26
  a business? To grow a business successfully
• 1:02:30
  because obviously okay yes we know.
• 1:02:31
  It takes time to grow a business and the opposite.
• 1:02:35
  Those artistic, I read years ago that like, was it 80% of stars
• 1:02:39
  fell on the first like year, more than that.
• 1:02:43
  There's a more than that now. Oh wow.
• 1:02:44
  Oh yeah. According to the US small
• 1:02:47
  business administration's. It's something in the 90s, the
• 1:02:51
  overwhelming statistical. Majority of small businesses
• 1:02:54
  will fail. Wow.
• 1:02:57
  Within their first First, three years of existence.
• 1:03:01
  Now, my my job. Is to reverse that Trend, that's
• 1:03:07
  my mission. That I would love to take up the
• 1:03:10
  problem that you run into is that overwhelmingly.
• 1:03:13
  The majority of these nonprofits and startups and small
• 1:03:17
  businesses, they don't want to spend money money.
• 1:03:20
  These are, this is just the truth.
• 1:03:22
  They either don't mind, I'm not laughing because you're wrong.
• 1:03:25
  I'm laughing, because it's just they create the drama.
• 1:03:31
  That's the onus of this is the prayer.
• 1:03:33
  The heart of the Her. They create their own problem.
• 1:03:37
  The solution is already there at the key is on the table.
• 1:03:40
  It's like us. Archers, famous play, No Exit.
• 1:03:44
  You know, where they're trapped in a living room and hell is
• 1:03:50
  basically this living room where you live with people who are
• 1:03:53
  just completely obnoxious to you, you know, people constantly
• 1:03:57
  criticizing you picking at how you dress and how you brush your
• 1:04:00
  teeth or whatever, they know every detail of you and you live
• 1:04:03
  in this living room. We're with them, 24 hours a day,
• 1:04:06
  7 days, a week, you can't leave. And at the end of the Play, One
• 1:04:10
  Day, Satan opens the door. And says, look, there's all
• 1:04:13
  these doors. All you have to do is go through
• 1:04:15
  them and they argue with Satan and they said, well Satan, we
• 1:04:17
  couldn't go through the door because open to the portal of
• 1:04:20
  hell, and he's well, yeah, that's true.
• 1:04:22
  There's five doors. For of the doors, open to the
• 1:04:26
  Gateway of hell. But one of them opens to your
• 1:04:28
  fondest dreams, all you had to do is try you could slam the
• 1:04:32
  door shot but you won't do it. You won't walk through the door
• 1:04:37
  and into play ends and they're all go back to being miserable
• 1:04:40
  and why is your hair combed that way?
• 1:04:43
  And I don't like you snore in your sleep and they fight and
• 1:04:46
  they argue and they go back to Purgatory, you know it's like
• 1:04:49
  living the ultimate dorm and but, you know, that's the whole
• 1:04:55
  thing is that the majority of businesses fail, not because
• 1:04:59
  there's not a need But it's because they fight with
• 1:05:03
  themselves. They hire family members over
• 1:05:05
  people who are qualified. They will go and pay five
• 1:05:09
  thousand dollars for an ad in the Yellow Pages.
• 1:05:12
  When you know, their website won't work on your smartphone
• 1:05:16
  and they can't get on the first page of Google, you know, so
• 1:05:21
  it's not entirely their fault, they don't know what they don't
• 1:05:23
  know, but it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• 1:05:28
  So it's quite hard and different.
• 1:05:30
  Restaurants, have an even higher percentage of failure, and, of
• 1:05:34
  course, that failure rate is compounded with covid.
• 1:05:39
  So it's quite a toxic brew. So I always offer to help small
• 1:05:44
  business owners and nonprofits, who want the help?
• 1:05:48
  That's the key. And I always say that if you're
• 1:05:51
  not committed, if you don't believe you're committed,
• 1:05:54
  business owner or premium service provider, don't talk to
• 1:05:57
  me. If you do believe that you're
• 1:05:59
  committed, business owner or premium service provider, I'll
• 1:06:02
  be happy to talk to you for free for half hour, answer any
• 1:06:05
  questions you have, I legitimately try to help you.
• 1:06:09
  Would you be surprised how that cuts through the through the BS
• 1:06:12
  very quickly. But I hope I'm answering your
• 1:06:15
  questions because we're having a good conversation.
• 1:06:17
  You want to answer every question you have?
• 1:06:20
  Yeah I mean I've got endless questions for you.
• 1:06:22
  Don't worry. Look, whatever you can have part
• 1:06:25
  two. We can have part two.
• 1:06:26
  I'm fine with it. But yeah, I mean, since we're
• 1:06:29
  sort of steering more towards what you what you do, let's talk
• 1:06:32
  about your company. You're the founder of DMS blue.
• 1:06:36
  It's a company that combines digital marketing.
• 1:06:39
  Is with lean project management practices to help business
• 1:06:43
  owners improve their business and you've touched on that a
• 1:06:45
  little bit. But what I want to ask you is
• 1:06:47
  how did this company come to be and what are the main benefits
• 1:06:51
  to business owners from working with you?
• 1:06:54
  Yeah, well, you know, basically, there was a point in time where
• 1:06:59
  I had my own marketing agency in between working for marketing
• 1:07:04
  agencies, and being a consultant, and I started my own
• 1:07:08
  marketing Agency quite a few years ago and the overhead was
• 1:07:14
  massive, massive and it wasn't worth it from from well, any
• 1:07:22
  business owner should know, their pll's.
• 1:07:25
  And from a piano perspective, the prophets versus the lost.
• 1:07:31
  It wasn't, it wasn't worth all the this what you're spending
• 1:07:35
  outward. So That being said, my business
• 1:07:41
  DMS dot blue. DMS blue is basically me as a
• 1:07:46
  consultant, it's my initials. It's what I do is a digital
• 1:07:49
  marketing consultant, that's what I enjoy doing.
• 1:07:52
  So what so many people in web design and SEO and social media,
• 1:07:58
  the missing out on what is a cult is?
• 1:08:03
  A whole holistic approach to marketing which is in my view
• 1:08:07
  what it should be. Is you have to look at the big
• 1:08:10
  picture so I have, you know, people call all the time and
• 1:08:13
  they say well how much is a website?
• 1:08:15
  How much is SEO? How much is social media
• 1:08:17
  marketing? Like, they're buying kumquats at
• 1:08:19
  the grocery store doesn't work that way.
• 1:08:22
  You're not buying, you know, pair glasses, and even then you
• 1:08:26
  still have to get your eyes examined every couple of years
• 1:08:28
  and get a new pair. You know, I might outgrow your
• 1:08:31
  suit things, need, tweaking and adjusting and fine-tuning.
• 1:08:35
  She'll be kind of what kind of like a case-by-case.
• 1:08:38
  Basis then whenever people come to you to be effective, you have
• 1:08:42
  to not all women are the same. You're not going to want to date
• 1:08:46
  every woman in the world. They won't be a proper match for
• 1:08:49
  you, and they would be exhausting, you know, it's a
• 1:08:53
  good way to kill yourself prematurely, but, you know, you
• 1:08:57
  have to look at each business individually because each
• 1:09:00
  business is unique, your want business, a is not going to have
• 1:09:04
  the same problems as business be business. 8, May 1 Sell a
• 1:09:08
  location. They may want to increase
• 1:09:12
  donations to a nonprofit organization whereas business be
• 1:09:16
  maybe they may want to have more subscribers or they may want to
• 1:09:21
  have more numbers at a gym. During the pandemic that's going
• 1:09:24
  to be particularly difficult and they need to go in different
• 1:09:27
  directions. My God.
• 1:09:28
  How many yoga studios have shut down right now?
• 1:09:30
  Because they refused to Pivot, they should be offering classes
• 1:09:34
  online. I remember my wife loves yoga,
• 1:09:37
  she was looking for yoga class. Isis online.
• 1:09:38
  We couldn't find him. It's mad to think about, isn't
• 1:09:41
  it? Like, how advise people the in
• 1:09:44
  the craziest thing about that, as well as that a lot of those
• 1:09:47
  people have physical places, right?
• 1:09:50
  Which I understand. You have to pay and stuff but
• 1:09:51
  like surely you would just sell it or something like that and
• 1:09:55
  just do everything online. Take advantage of the situation
• 1:09:58
  and reinvent your business model.
• 1:10:00
  Well, you actually or if you already are renting a yoga
• 1:10:03
  studio, hello? There's beautiful space right
• 1:10:06
  there. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:08
  Yeah, I mean, sure you could record out of that or like, what
• 1:10:10
  I'm saying is that you could completely eliminate your
• 1:10:13
  overheads, do it from home, go online with it gin.
• 1:10:17
  And I mean, like, there's so many benefits to doing that.
• 1:10:20
  But of course, every restaurant should be every restaurant could
• 1:10:24
  be having cooking classes in their kitchen and doing it,
• 1:10:27
  virtually will go and take away, you know?
• 1:10:29
  I mean, like, why you, yeah, you should offer take away curbside
• 1:10:32
  pickup, you know, delivery to your, to your front door with
• 1:10:36
  who buries the doordash, all these other ER, Services
• 1:10:39
  statistically most do not do that.
• 1:10:41
  It will not do it. You could have cooking classes
• 1:10:44
  that you put on YouTube or that you sell, you could sell cooking
• 1:10:48
  classes, you could have recipes in for, and have video blogs on
• 1:10:53
  YouTube, and in and Twitter and Pinterest on a daily basis and
• 1:10:58
  promote your special sauce. You ship all over the world and
• 1:11:01
  partner with eBay and Amazon, but there has to be a desire to
• 1:11:06
  do that. Of them don't have to desire
• 1:11:09
  because change hurts and then if you have the desire, you have to
• 1:11:14
  have the capability. If this is one of the reasons
• 1:11:18
  why I always say do-it-yourself marketing doesn't work because
• 1:11:21
  what are the chances that you? And I'm not saying you Christian
• 1:11:27
  but use if you were the Watcher, what are the odds that you are
• 1:11:32
  an expert in SEO and content marketing and design and
• 1:11:37
  branding? In content marketing content,
• 1:11:40
  repurposing and podcasting, and that you enjoy all of these
• 1:11:44
  things, it will do all of these things.
• 1:11:46
  On a regular recurring basis, such as you're going to see some
• 1:11:49
  Roi some return on investment traction from efforts so that
• 1:11:53
  you see the results that you want and you do these things
• 1:11:55
  regularly. What are the odds that you're
• 1:11:57
  going to be good in all of these things?
• 1:11:59
  Able to do all of these things come on?
• 1:12:02
  And you're going to know how to do all of these things and if
• 1:12:05
  you use your Wix or Weebly or Squarespace, or Wordpress.com do
• 1:12:09
  it yourself, free template. That's not going to work to get
• 1:12:13
  you number one in Google overnight because a these are
• 1:12:17
  empty vessels. And I'm not talking from a
• 1:12:20
  spiritual perspective, although I am you're talking about an
• 1:12:25
  automated template used by millions of other people across
• 1:12:29
  the globe. What I will say though, I
• 1:12:31
  partially disagree with you on this.
• 1:12:33
  And the only reason is that, I think with things like for
• 1:12:36
  instance, getting to the top of Google, I don't think you
• 1:12:39
  necessarily have to do that by paying an agency or whatever.
• 1:12:43
  For example, I was able to do that with my website.
• 1:12:46
  Now my website is based off of wicks You know, I eventually
• 1:12:50
  paid to have it have the URL, Etc, don't get me wrong, I set
• 1:12:56
  up the website in 2017, you know, I didn't put any money
• 1:13:01
  into it for a long time. But the point I'm trying to make
• 1:13:05
  is that I did a lot of stuff as far as like, social media, link
• 1:13:09
  building and everything online to get it, like, organically to
• 1:13:12
  push up. And so through the course of the
• 1:13:14
  last three years, I've managed to get it to the second entry.
• 1:13:18
  Sometimes the First entry depends how it sorts it but
• 1:13:21
  generally it's first or second and then under I'm under like
• 1:13:25
  Christopher Reeve are you Superman?
• 1:13:27
  Which is fine. I'll be second to Superman but
• 1:13:30
  the point is it's organic. It was done without money.
• 1:13:33
  So I think that it does largely depend on what your brand is you
• 1:13:38
  know, if we talk in a business, okay?
• 1:13:39
  That's different. But if it's like a personal
• 1:13:41
  brand or a name or I think it it really depends.
• 1:13:45
  Like it depends on your level of expertise how much time and
• 1:13:48
  effort you're willing to put Into it as well.
• 1:13:51
  That's a key component part and the other part is like what you
• 1:13:54
  said, if you known as an individual, as a person, not as
• 1:13:59
  a company name, where you are or for specific type of service,
• 1:14:04
  which is what most small businesses and for that matter,
• 1:14:07
  Enterprise business is want to be known for a type of service.
• 1:14:10
  They provide with there's massive tissue.
• 1:14:13
  You know, how many people are competing in SEO for Christian
• 1:14:18
  Reeve? But be a lot could be many could
• 1:14:21
  be a could be a million people, I don't know, but for most small
• 1:14:25
  businesses, they want to be known for whatever their
• 1:14:29
  business is accountant. Italian restaurant shoe repair,
• 1:14:34
  local pub down the street. Dentist Doctor lawyer would have
• 1:14:38
  you. They want to be recognized for
• 1:14:40
  specific. Type of service or product.
• 1:14:45
  So it's much much more competitive and that's where
• 1:14:48
  they're going to need someone to come in and go.
• 1:14:50
  Okay, I know it. The SEO should be.
• 1:14:52
  I know how to implement that. And I can also coordinate that
• 1:14:57
  with these other factors, as you articulated such as social
• 1:15:01
  media, content, marketing content, repurposing on and on,
• 1:15:04
  and on, you know, if you're a lawyer, for example, you know,
• 1:15:11
  You have to really be very particular with your SEO,
• 1:15:13
  because every city is going to have how many lawyers in the,
• 1:15:17
  you know, quite a few. There's going to be competition
• 1:15:20
  for the type of law that, that lawyer practice is so we'll
• 1:15:25
  their website have their area of specialty highlighted in the
• 1:15:31
  right place in that tab, where it should be.
• 1:15:34
  So that's why you go to a specialist for special help just
• 1:15:38
  as you know I don't ask my mechanic or to go for the best
• 1:15:42
  pizza. I don't ask the pizzeria you
• 1:15:44
  know the Italian Master Chef to fill a cavity.
• 1:15:49
  You know, it's essentially that's what we're saying.
• 1:15:51
  The DMS blue is, is it's an opportunity to reach out to a
• 1:15:54
  specialist. As you said, you've got over 20
• 1:15:56
  years worth of experience in various different fields.
• 1:16:00
  So, whatever the size of the company of they're coming to
• 1:16:04
  you, they're going to be able to rectify their problems and
• 1:16:08
  you're going to be able to steer them in the right direction so
• 1:16:10
  to speak. But I want to go.
• 1:16:12
  I'm sorry. Well, I was just going to add if
• 1:16:15
  I don't know everything. I'll certainly know where to
• 1:16:17
  find the information right in. I enjoy putting a lot of
• 1:16:21
  information there so that people can really peruse that
• 1:16:25
  information and gain from it. So, I have an FAQ page, I've
• 1:16:29
  scholarly articles and links to scholarly journals.
• 1:16:35
  There's a wonderful. Wonderful thing.
• 1:16:36
  I mean, people don't know that this exists, but we talk about
• 1:16:39
  digital marketing, we're not just pulling it on her backside.
• 1:16:42
  This is based on signs. There's Stanford University has
• 1:16:46
  the persuasive technology laboratory that they spent a
• 1:16:49
  decade studying what works and what does not work Oxford has
• 1:16:54
  something called the in the internet Institute.
• 1:16:57
  I believe where they study the internet, it lives Ad nauseam.
• 1:17:02
  So I think it's really important that everyone know about this
• 1:17:04
  science that goes into this. If you're interested in using it
• 1:17:08
  in a smart effective way, don't don't put the future of your
• 1:17:12
  business. In a free do-it-yourself tool,
• 1:17:16
  that probably isn't going to work for you.
• 1:17:19
  I mean I'm a home cook. I don't think my food is going
• 1:17:22
  to be at the same level as someone who is an expert like
• 1:17:26
  your Gordon Ramsay or whatever. You know.
• 1:17:29
  Obviously, you know, I might know how to change a fan belt
• 1:17:33
  but I'm not going to say sure. Christian I'll fix your car so
• 1:17:36
  you could get on the interstate again.
• 1:17:37
  You take your life in your own hands.
• 1:17:39
  You know, would you put the future of your business in the
• 1:17:43
  hands of it? Automated do-it-yourself
• 1:17:45
  template. I know I've read that is a good
• 1:17:48
  question. Because I suppose that that
• 1:17:51
  might be something. Well, that's the thing right
• 1:17:53
  now. No but in 10 15 years from now,
• 1:17:57
  I mean you look at how fast technology is moving marketing
• 1:18:01
  is moving extremely quickly in the same way.
• 1:18:04
  That means I mean the way SEO worked.
• 1:18:06
  Say 10 years ago versus now is completely different.
• 1:18:10
  The marketing marketing cannot and will not take the place of
• 1:18:15
  human Ingenuity and creativity and innovation.
• 1:18:19
  If it when it does you and I would no longer and, you know, I
• 1:18:26
  mean, and that's really the basis of marketing in general is
• 1:18:29
  being creative, being insightful, being authentic, in
• 1:18:33
  trying to cut through the effluvia.
• 1:18:36
  That so much of society is focused on, for lack of a better
• 1:18:41
  metaphor, it's like creating your own personal called Because
• 1:18:45
  you know, if you look at politics at certainly what
• 1:18:48
  Donald Trump has been very successful in doing yeah.
• 1:18:51
  I mean as a mockingjay supposed to get into politics but it's
• 1:18:55
  fine, it's fine. I think it's a good.
• 1:18:57
  It's a good thing to look at because there is obviously a lot
• 1:19:00
  of marketing in politics and I think Donald Trump or whatever
• 1:19:05
  your opinion of him, good or bad as a marketer, as a businessman,
• 1:19:10
  as a guy who's been branding himself, all of his life.
• 1:19:13
  I think he's done a exceptional job.
• 1:19:15
  As far as marketing of himself is concerned?
• 1:19:18
  Well, you know, I one of the one of the educational things.
• 1:19:25
  I did a long time ago, I attended this series of
• 1:19:29
  workshops in Colorado, I'm having a senior moment.
• 1:19:34
  It's I can't remember with it's a progressive Institute that was
• 1:19:39
  formed by the White House project and the Colorado Board
• 1:19:43
  of Education. And I it was each meeting we met
• 1:19:48
  every day for several weeks, I believe and each meeting it was
• 1:19:53
  all day long, as exhausting you'd have to be there in the
• 1:19:57
  more took an hour to drive there, maybe an hour and a half,
• 1:20:00
  beautiful drive to the mountains of Colorado, though.
• 1:20:04
  I mean, you just want to stop and just have, you know, a cup
• 1:20:07
  of tea or something. Watch the Buffalo, just
• 1:20:09
  breathtaking. And we're there all day long.
• 1:20:13
  And we would have workshops and The Nars and exercises that we
• 1:20:17
  would do with other people and you would either say you, will
• 1:20:19
  you two want it to be a candidate?
• 1:20:21
  Or you would advise the candidates?
• 1:20:23
  Now, I thought back to look I'm not Brad Pitt.
• 1:20:26
  So I'm not going to be a candidate and it's just a
• 1:20:29
  genetic ticket. I was given it in the booth and
• 1:20:33
  so I said well I'll advise the candidates thank you very much.
• 1:20:37
  And so we studied, what was basically it's called messaging
• 1:20:42
  and the the Uber guru's of messaging Our George Lake off on
• 1:20:47
  the left and then Steve Schmidt on the right.
• 1:20:50
  You can look these guys up and they're both brilliant in their
• 1:20:54
  own ways and their messaging experts and Barack Obama had his
• 1:21:00
  messaging expert. I think was Axelrod, it was on
• 1:21:06
  MSNBC a lot David Axelrod I think and I think he had a
• 1:21:09
  marketing agency before he took up Obama.
• 1:21:12
  He may very well still have a marketing agency and they all
• 1:21:15
  You. So basically what they said
• 1:21:18
  during that was the candidates who win are the candidates who
• 1:21:23
  have the best messaging, the candidates who have the best
• 1:21:27
  packaging, the best identity. And I remember telling my wife,
• 1:21:31
  I said Obama's going to win. She's well, how do you know?
• 1:21:35
  And I said, well, he is the better messaging, he's on
• 1:21:37
  Brianna's logo looks better. It did look corporate, but it
• 1:21:42
  was a more memorable logo the Sun.
• 1:21:45
  Coming up a new dawn, and his messaging was much more powerful
• 1:21:50
  than John McCain's. John McCain's message was her
• 1:21:54
  his brand was, hey, look, I'm a war veteran, a war hero as taken
• 1:22:00
  hostage, and horribly tortured, and beaten a noble person and
• 1:22:07
  that was his brand. No good war, hero.
• 1:22:13
  Obama's message was a new dawn, a different way.
• 1:22:17
  Oh, different path for America, hope?
• 1:22:21
  Yes, we can, you know, hope for the Future, Hope for people who
• 1:22:26
  did it look like you, you and I, you know, people who had brown
• 1:22:30
  skin, who knew what it was like to get the short shrift so it
• 1:22:35
  was young, he's skinny walked on smoking, he was a young and hip
• 1:22:39
  and cool, you know. Everybody was like, wow, he's
• 1:22:42
  young and hip and cool. This is exciting, you know?
• 1:22:45
  And so it was very different. His his brand is marketing was
• 1:22:50
  was moral boss didn't? Just hitting on more cylinders
• 1:22:54
  everybody. It was, we knew he was going to
• 1:22:56
  win. You could repeat what his
• 1:22:59
  messaging was, you know, so did he create a cult to some extent,
• 1:23:08
  to some extent? The Cult of Obama was going
• 1:23:11
  going to these events getting fired up, listening to this
• 1:23:14
  beaches. You know, hearing him being
• 1:23:16
  interviewed, you know, going and donating and getting the phone
• 1:23:20
  calls, and I remember my volunteered for the campaign.
• 1:23:24
  So, obviously, you know where I stand is cleared, I remember
• 1:23:28
  bringing several boxes of pizza to The Campaign Headquarters and
• 1:23:32
  saying, I'm here to help. You know, I'm a marketing guy.
• 1:23:37
  If I could contribute contribute as Marking guy.
• 1:23:42
  I'm happy to do. So give you my advice to local
• 1:23:45
  candidates. I went through the that that
• 1:23:50
  series of courses and became a fellow of that Progressive
• 1:23:55
  Institute. It went on to advise somewhere
• 1:23:59
  between six or nine candidates. And some listen to me some
• 1:24:05
  didn't but it was, it was great fun but I forgot what the
• 1:24:10
  original question was. I'm sorry deck rest, it's good.
• 1:24:12
  It's good. Oh, see.
• 1:24:13
  You were talking about the marketing success of of Obama,
• 1:24:17
  which I think is equally as interesting.
• 1:24:19
  And it pretty much said, what answered, at least, what I, what
• 1:24:24
  I wanted to know about Trump, but I suppose I ought to know
• 1:24:27
  your thoughts on Trump's marketing campaign as well
• 1:24:31
  because it was vastly different to our Those, but there is that
• 1:24:34
  similarity as far as being on brand, because, you know, the
• 1:24:38
  bomber it was. Yes, we can.
• 1:24:41
  Whereas with trump, it would, it's make America great again,
• 1:24:45
  which is still a very big brand, so to speak.
• 1:24:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He hears his handlers, let's say
• 1:24:55
  his advisors were very brilliant in knowing that a, they had a
• 1:25:00
  candidate who could speak to the camera.
• 1:25:04
  Not particularly photogenic but he knew where, you know, where
• 1:25:08
  to stand. And we've all seen these
• 1:25:10
  political candidates or politicians in front of the
• 1:25:13
  camera, be extremely awkward. Yeah.
• 1:25:15
  They fought. They fum fum, the bubble, like
• 1:25:18
  they have a mouthful of marbles, there's our that famous thing,
• 1:25:22
  we're who was that Indian guy camera?
• 1:25:26
  His name who was a Republican and he had this famous thing, we
• 1:25:30
  came down. Some scare cases all Oak, A real
• 1:25:33
  Slim Indian guy, very intelligent, but he just did a
• 1:25:37
  horrible job speaking and his career long people.
• 1:25:41
  It's very Republican, Republican guy camera a name like bloody
• 1:25:46
  body or puppy or something or other.
• 1:25:48
  I can't remember his name and then, Marco Rubio.
• 1:25:54
  Did you think where he was sweating profusely and drinking
• 1:25:57
  water constantly very awkward in front of the camera, not at all
• 1:26:01
  comfortable, so they knew the truck was comfortable in front
• 1:26:04
  of the camera. Very comfortable in front of the
• 1:26:08
  camera. He already had a brand
• 1:26:10
  established as a magical Guru guy, you know,
• 1:26:14
  multi-millionaire, he had his own reality TV show for quite
• 1:26:19
  some time on American television.
• 1:26:24
  So, he was very well known very well established.
• 1:26:27
  So when he ran, It was exciting for a lot of people, maybe this
• 1:26:32
  guy will be different, you know, and that was how it really got
• 1:26:38
  started, but as far as him going for a base, his base were people
• 1:26:43
  who believed that America wasn't great, or had been great.
• 1:26:47
  Long time ago, and were people who were, you know, had a lot of
• 1:26:51
  fear and had a lot of insecurities, and he
• 1:26:55
  triangulated all of these things people who have fear about All
• 1:27:00
  the other people who are different, you know, Mexico is
• 1:27:03
  not sending their best or sending rapes and murders.
• 1:27:05
  He said that, not me Sonny's, people back where they came
• 1:27:10
  from, they were American Congress bed, or, you know,
• 1:27:13
  established politicians. You know, they're already
• 1:27:16
  merican citizens, where you going to send them back to, it
• 1:27:19
  was about their ethnicity of his about them being different.
• 1:27:23
  And so, he knew that these his base were, people who would get
• 1:27:27
  excited over this message and When the IMA GA people marched
• 1:27:32
  in Washington just recently today is December 15th a day or
• 1:27:36
  two ago. They marched in Washington by
• 1:27:39
  the thousands and what did they do?
• 1:27:42
  There were black lives matter signs set on fire vandalized.
• 1:27:49
  People were stabbed that's the Legacy that they had.
• 1:27:56
  So if that's the base, it's not a base that I personally would
• 1:27:59
  we would be enamored of but you know that I'm sure.
• 1:28:04
  Look I mean the reality is our Trump supporters who think he's
• 1:28:07
  a genius who are not violent and let's be fair, they're not
• 1:28:14
  violent. They may not see themselves as
• 1:28:16
  being racist or homophobic, but there are people who are their
• 1:28:23
  supporters, who are in order, I'm not ashamed of it.
• 1:28:26
  That's not something I would want to be a part of, but he
• 1:28:30
  knew how to attract those followers.
• 1:28:34
  He knew how to appeal to them in a way that's quite reminiscent
• 1:28:39
  of past leaders in history, who worker, asthmatic, who could
• 1:28:45
  speak to the needs and pains of people who felt disenfranchised
• 1:28:49
  by Society, I could go down the list as I'm sure you could.
• 1:28:55
  Yeah, not, but what you're touching on actually is quite an
• 1:28:57
  interesting things. I remember years ago when I was
• 1:28:59
  studying at University, I watched various different
• 1:29:03
  documentaries and, you know, just just various different
• 1:29:06
  things on the marketing power of politics, and everything, and
• 1:29:11
  just presidential campaigns in general.
• 1:29:12
  And I remember that this particular brand of or style
• 1:29:17
  approach, whatever you want to call it to presidential
• 1:29:19
  campaigns that we have right now.
• 1:29:21
  And indeed not just with American politics, but Worldwide
• 1:29:25
  politics. It seems to stem.
• 1:29:28
  I believe from Ronald Reagan's Administration.
• 1:29:31
  Possibly entering into the second term.
• 1:29:34
  I believe that he can remember the name of the gentleman, but
• 1:29:37
  he employed someone specifically for the purpose of improving his
• 1:29:42
  brand. Essentially, the get him, his
• 1:29:44
  second term. And this guy's only job, pretty
• 1:29:47
  much was to just change public opinion about Reagan.
• 1:29:52
  And they did this like, Essentially by creating like a
• 1:29:56
  story arc about Reagan, which had very little to do with what
• 1:30:03
  was actually going on. It was more to do with like
• 1:30:06
  building up who he is, why you should vote for him.
• 1:30:11
  What he'll do to kind of change America.
• 1:30:14
  Bubba blah. Right.
• 1:30:16
  Which is all very standard stuff but like before that hadn't
• 1:30:19
  really been done, like focusing on creating this narrative
• 1:30:22
  focusing on kind of building. This brand that was not
• 1:30:25
  something that have been done before, but if you look at every
• 1:30:28
  president since Reagan, it's always been the same approach
• 1:30:32
  especially with Obama. And we just yeah yeah.
• 1:30:38
  I mean when we look at Joe Biden who I do, believe it is a good
• 1:30:42
  conch conscientious person. He seems like that.
• 1:30:45
  Anyway, if you look at the, I mean you're in the UK but in the
• 1:30:51
  u.s., if you look at the voting turnout, Trump was doing very,
• 1:30:57
  very well. People thought he was a genius
• 1:31:00
  with the economy even though the economy really wasn't doing well
• 1:31:03
  for the working class, investors were doing swimmingly, but the
• 1:31:08
  middle class in America was struggling and really struggling
• 1:31:11
  mightily, but his polling numbers were very good.
• 1:31:16
  He was on course to sail, to re-election, it wasn't until
• 1:31:21
  covid cane. And it came to be quite the
• 1:31:26
  nightmare scenario where the u.s. is.
• 1:31:30
  I think it's every second two more people, die of covid.
• 1:31:33
  Inuit people refuse to wear masks, where I live anyway,
• 1:31:39
  because they believe it is a conspiracy, they truly do, and,
• 1:31:45
  but The Branding the marketing was on target.
• 1:31:51
  He was doing quite well. Extremely flamboyant, people are
• 1:31:55
  very excited and then covid came and began to stockpile and build
• 1:32:00
  a built to to to, you know what, we see now over 300,000 dead in
• 1:32:04
  the US. And certainly, they expect that
• 1:32:07
  number to probably double within the next few months.
• 1:32:09
  So which is staggering if you think about it more than any
• 1:32:14
  War, I think, and US history or any other Nation, I could think
• 1:32:18
  of. So I mean, you know, Biden's
• 1:32:21
  messaging was not. Stronger.
• 1:32:25
  But there was so much opposition to chop that so many people were
• 1:32:28
  tired and fatigued from from the counterproductive messaging and
• 1:32:38
  the narcissistic behavior and nothing being done about covid.
• 1:32:44
  You know, this attitude of, it's a conspiracy, it's a hoax.
• 1:32:48
  But meanwhile, hundreds of hundreds of thousands of people
• 1:32:52
  are dying from it. What's going on?
• 1:32:54
  So enough people came out to vote in mass that you could deny
• 1:32:57
  it, but he still one regardless and you know my wife, I had that
• 1:33:03
  discussion. I said a little we'll look,
• 1:33:04
  we're not, you know, voting for the next JFK's, we felt could
• 1:33:08
  have been the case with Obama. We're not voting for the next G
• 1:33:11
  at JFK, or the new Obama. We're voting for a Centrist, you
• 1:33:16
  know, career politician. But at least he seems rational
• 1:33:20
  and coherent and isn't going to worry.
• 1:33:24
  About someone's tweet on Twitter.
• 1:33:28
  You don't so much as just, try to be decent.
• 1:33:31
  Just try to do it. Make sense, or logical.
• 1:33:33
  At least. Even if you fail at least try to
• 1:33:36
  do it. Make sense over what appeals to
• 1:33:38
  you, personally, you know, it's not a You know, I remember
• 1:33:44
  reading the other day, that almost the entire u.s.
• 1:33:46
  infrastructure was hacked by Russian hackers, just like,
• 1:33:50
  within the last 48 hours and I don't think that it's a shocking
• 1:33:54
  coincidence that you know the head of cybersecurity was fired
• 1:33:58
  like a week ago because he dared to say that the elections were
• 1:34:01
  safe. But anyway, I'm off on another
• 1:34:05
  tangent. I must be getting a little bit
• 1:34:07
  tired but yeah, the stronger, your marketing is the more
• 1:34:10
  unbranded. You are usually the more these
• 1:34:14
  politicians zero in on reaching and connecting to who they want.
• 1:34:19
  So to some definition, I think effective marketing is like a
• 1:34:22
  cult. It's structured like one.
• 1:34:26
  You know, but you have to be moral and ethical, and use it
• 1:34:30
  for good over ill, of course, absolutely, bring it back to to
• 1:34:36
  DMS blue. I just want to ask one more
• 1:34:38
  question given that you as I mentioned in the blurb about it,
• 1:34:43
  you combine digital marketing and lean project management
• 1:34:46
  practices. I tell us a little bit more
• 1:34:48
  about what exactly you do with that and how you combine it and
• 1:34:53
  help your clients? Sure, it's not a Simple answer.
• 1:34:58
  But basically it would be lets say for example, you contacted
• 1:35:02
  me and said, David look, you know, I'm just, you know, I'm
• 1:35:05
  nice cause, you know, young cool hip guy.
• 1:35:07
  I play the guitar and I'm an actor and do voiceover work and
• 1:35:11
  you cool guy. I want to become more of a brand
• 1:35:17
  influencer. All I want to start my own
• 1:35:19
  business. Can you consult with me?
• 1:35:20
  Sure. Okay.
• 1:35:21
  I'll talk to you that way. You know, digital marketing.
• 1:35:26
  Things are toolset that I employ, but it's not the, the
• 1:35:30
  Alpha and the Omega. It's not the beginning and, and
• 1:35:32
  it's not all. So you'd have to screen that
• 1:35:35
  person first to to find out, you know, their level of commitment.
• 1:35:40
  What they bring to the table, what's a realistic budget range?
• 1:35:44
  For them, what they see is anticipatory, what's realistic
• 1:35:48
  for them and then is that industry standard?
• 1:35:51
  Have they done any research? What do they want to do?
• 1:35:54
  You know how many people are involved?
• 1:35:55
  How many? Apartments, that sort of thing.
• 1:35:57
  If any would we have to work with?
• 1:36:00
  And then once you go through that, then you go to the process
• 1:36:05
  of disseminating, the information and going through
• 1:36:08
  all of this onboarding, this is how we work.
• 1:36:10
  This is how you work Candis to jibe and work in unison.
• 1:36:14
  What do you want to do? Or do you see this heading?
• 1:36:17
  And then that you also look at content marketing, SEO design,
• 1:36:23
  all these, who are your competitors and why do you feel
• 1:36:25
  that way? Way, how do you base these
• 1:36:27
  decisions? Now, how are we going to come up
• 1:36:29
  with marketing collateral that can speak to the Pains of your
• 1:36:31
  ideal preferred consumer? We have to come up with that so
• 1:36:36
  that there's something to Market and distribute, right?
• 1:36:39
  So we go through all that process.
• 1:36:41
  Now as far as lean management which is also parts of part of
• 1:36:45
  Michael boots on the ground marking that's also looking at
• 1:36:49
  the infrastructure that you may or may not have.
• 1:36:51
  So for example, if you are a medical practice or legal
• 1:36:55
  practices, Counted or you have employees, you know we it's
• 1:37:00
  incumbent upon a moral and ethical professional to look at.
• 1:37:05
  This isn't just giving you a handful of tools.
• 1:37:09
  This isn't just giving you a silly website and then moving on
• 1:37:12
  to the next quick. Flip, this is empowering the
• 1:37:14
  business to grow exponentially over time.
• 1:37:17
  So we want to look at the entire business and say what other
• 1:37:20
  deficits are there that we can address, is there a great deal
• 1:37:25
  of Over. Well, if so why.
• 1:37:28
  What's why is this happening? Where is this happening?
• 1:37:31
  Let's see what we could do to help you with that as well.
• 1:37:34
  Because I worked for enough agencies that, hello, I know
• 1:37:37
  when agencies are having a massive amount of Turn Around.
• 1:37:40
  The company is losing money. It could be bleeding money, so
• 1:37:43
  we want to look at that. Why is there a lot of turnover?
• 1:37:46
  Where is this happening? Let's address that if we can,
• 1:37:50
  you know, are you spending a lot of time answering repetitive
• 1:37:53
  questions that you don't need to do?
• 1:37:55
  How can we automate? Just process.
• 1:37:57
  So we want to look at the larger problems that the business is
• 1:38:01
  having, and then look at how we can adjust it using different
• 1:38:07
  tools, like digital marketing or for that matter traditional
• 1:38:10
  marketing. So, we will look at the whole
• 1:38:15
  picture. That takes time.
• 1:38:20
  It's not done in one hour long conversation.
• 1:38:23
  So that's why we have the screening process, and then I
• 1:38:25
  call the onboarding process and I have blog posts about this on
• 1:38:28
  my website, where I go into detail about it.
• 1:38:30
  I talked about it. Excellent.
• 1:38:33
  Well thank you very much for Sharon.
• 1:38:34
  Let's get to learn a little bit more about your business
• 1:38:38
  elsewhere. You are the author of a book
• 1:38:41
  titled, the rose to digital marketing profits.
• 1:38:45
  Talk us through upon the world, the road.
• 1:38:49
  Yes, the road to digital marketing profits, it could be
• 1:38:53
  my headphones. It could be my headphones.
• 1:38:55
  I could I could have misheard that.
• 1:38:57
  Yeah, that's it. That's my first book and it is
• 1:39:02
  Essentially a workbook, where I take the beginner who said says,
• 1:39:07
  basically, they're completely new to digital marketing.
• 1:39:10
  The completely new to the concepts, you may have
• 1:39:13
  experimented with the Wix or Weebly or Squarespace site or
• 1:39:18
  template, and you just not getting the Returns on it that
• 1:39:21
  you had hoped for you feel lost in the weeds.
• 1:39:25
  Where do you begin? You're taking detours.
• 1:39:28
  You're driving in circles or you just Not even in the race at
• 1:39:32
  all. You haven't begun your road
• 1:39:34
  trip. So we take that metaphor and say
• 1:39:36
  look, let's take you through this journey so that you don't
• 1:39:40
  take detours, you don't go in the wrong road trip, you don't
• 1:39:44
  break down, you don't run out of gas.
• 1:39:46
  So you could get to your destination through a series of
• 1:39:49
  exercises. And then at the end of it let's
• 1:39:53
  help you put together a business plan using digital marketing
• 1:39:57
  which any credit union or bank is going to ask you.
• 1:40:00
  How do you how do you Opposed to reach your ideal consumer base,
• 1:40:05
  if you don't know their politely, you have a nice day on
• 1:40:08
  your way, out of the bank or credit union.
• 1:40:11
  So the idea is to empower you so that you know, where you're
• 1:40:13
  driving but also that you have a business plan that you can take
• 1:40:18
  to any bank or credit union to show them as well.
• 1:40:23
  Yes. It's kind of like a beginner's
• 1:40:24
  guide almost like this is how you structure your pitch.
• 1:40:27
  This is how you kind of structure, why?
• 1:40:30
  No, your proposal. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:40:32
  It's my first book. And after that, I had other
• 1:40:36
  questions from people and I started putting together a
• 1:40:40
  visual workbook and I started hearing from all these
• 1:40:44
  Freelancers who were saying, oh my God, I love this graph.
• 1:40:49
  I love this infographic, you came out with because in forms,
• 1:40:53
  small business owners on how to handle the concepts of budgeting
• 1:40:57
  or scope creep or how to tell a capable freelancer from an
• 1:41:01
  amateur. Do more damage than good.
• 1:41:04
  So I started hearing from a lot of Freelancers that they love
• 1:41:07
  this workbook. So I put together the workbook
• 1:41:10
  and I sell it through my site. I still haven't quite figured
• 1:41:14
  out who you know, who to have it for ideally.
• 1:41:18
  But I sold this workbook to whoever wants it and I also
• 1:41:24
  started putting together a course for Freelancers.
• 1:41:27
  Where I say basically look, I don't know everything.
• 1:41:30
  I'm not to Magic. A guru guy that you may want,
• 1:41:34
  but I can tell you from going through a lot of pain and a lot
• 1:41:38
  of experience working for agencies and freelancing.
• 1:41:40
  Here's what I learned. And here's how to cut through
• 1:41:43
  the BS with clients and be yourself and really tell them.
• 1:41:48
  This is what I want. This is what I need.
• 1:41:51
  This is what I need from you. This is what you're going to
• 1:41:54
  need from me and this is how we can be two adults and how you
• 1:41:58
  can stop having pointless discussions about how much how
• 1:42:01
  much and talk about value and how you can tell what a budget
• 1:42:06
  should be very simply, you know, how to discuss design what?
• 1:42:11
  Design should be how to eliminate scope creep once and
• 1:42:14
  for all and you know, what should be in a contract.
• 1:42:18
  And all of these things that a lot of Freelancers, rightfully
• 1:42:21
  struggle with. So I put together a course for
• 1:42:23
  that. And I'm always refining it and
• 1:42:26
  changing it and in my work book that covers so much.
• 1:42:30
  I don't even know what to do with it with this course.
• 1:42:34
  How is it structured? Exactly.
• 1:42:36
  Because obviously, there's a lot of business courses out there
• 1:42:38
  both free and paid like, what makes Unique.
• 1:42:42
  How is it structured? Like, one of the main benefits
• 1:42:45
  you would you say? Yeah, it's very unique in that
• 1:42:47
  it's one guy and it's be talking directly to the camera just as
• 1:42:52
  I'm talking to you now and you can hear me times.
• 1:42:56
  My voice is going horse during some of it, and they're
• 1:42:59
  basically videos of me talking directly into the camera and
• 1:43:03
  say, now, when I'm done talking to you, the watch or the viewer,
• 1:43:07
  I want you to look at this PDF right now.
• 1:43:10
  I want you to review it. And I want you to take out a
• 1:43:13
  piece of paper, write down any questions or concerns that you
• 1:43:15
  have, that are not adjust that you don't get it.
• 1:43:19
  Just don't get through your cabeza.
• 1:43:21
  And at the end of this, I welcome you to schedule a free,
• 1:43:25
  you know, video chat with me. Well, I'm happy to answer
• 1:43:29
  questions or concerns that you don't get the answer from.
• 1:43:32
  Okay, okay, I got a point. I think it's very honest and I
• 1:43:36
  think it's Unique now I have I gotten any bullshitters called
• 1:43:40
  me and Say that, you know, they want answers without purchasing
• 1:43:44
  the course? Yes, I have.
• 1:43:46
  And I look up their names adjusting using purchased a
• 1:43:48
  course delete. But but when this did you get
• 1:43:53
  some people purchased a course. And ask me questions too.
• 1:43:56
  So I'm sorry to interrupt you, go ahead.
• 1:43:59
  No. No, I mean if anything I'm
• 1:44:01
  interrupting you, I just wanted to Probe on.
• 1:44:03
  Was it okay? Obviously, you're not the only
• 1:44:08
  kind of business owner or course leader that has a sort of
• 1:44:12
  course, whereas there's interactivity and the ability to
• 1:44:15
  talk directly to to the course leader.
• 1:44:17
  But at the same time, do you not feel yourself sometimes getting
• 1:44:21
  like inundated with responses? In that sense?
• 1:44:24
  I mean like, you know, it's one thing if you're getting like,
• 1:44:27
  five or ten people messaging in but I assume it's a lot more.
• 1:44:30
  Does that not get kind of like a bit too much to handle?
• 1:44:33
  I mean, what do you deal with if the demands big wall first?
• 1:44:37
  Order me again, which is what I recommend all the business
• 1:44:40
  owners. Do I do it to you, automate?
• 1:44:43
  I'm not on a not on Zoom or Skype, or whereby or jitsi, or
• 1:44:48
  blue, jean, whatever. All day long people, I don't
• 1:44:51
  have the energy level for it, and I'm not going to do it quite
• 1:44:54
  frankly. I books, I want to read and more
• 1:44:57
  courses. I want to produce and more
• 1:44:59
  collateral. I want to produce just as I'm
• 1:45:01
  not on Twitter and Facebook all day every day.
• 1:45:03
  I check it once a day and then I move on to work.
• 1:45:07
  But I schedule people to calendly or you know, there's
• 1:45:12
  see Vita receded, whatever it is, there's other tools that are
• 1:45:15
  just fine for automating it. You make your appointment and
• 1:45:18
  you book them on file now. And also let's be honest.
• 1:45:23
  Your I'm not going to talk to someone, you know, a thousand
• 1:45:26
  times. You know, I can't be everyone's
• 1:45:29
  friend we talked once or twice, you know, and I try to answer
• 1:45:34
  their questions is very honestly as I can There's a guy who I've
• 1:45:39
  correspondent with several times on Facebook, who said, hey, I
• 1:45:43
  purchased your course, going to ask you some questions to sure.
• 1:45:46
  Go, right ahead. Absolutely.
• 1:45:49
  And we correspondent about five or six times, and after like the
• 1:45:53
  sixth time I just said, look up the answered, your questions.
• 1:45:56
  You told me that you understood the responses, you know what to
• 1:46:00
  do? The onus is on you to go do it
• 1:46:03
  now. Okay, he's purchased the course
• 1:46:05
  six times. No one time.
• 1:46:09
  I'm sorry. I've been one time based
• 1:46:10
  contacted. You six times.
• 1:46:12
  Yeah, okay. I'm fine.
• 1:46:14
  I'm fine with that. I don't respond immediately,
• 1:46:18
  right? Of course, let's be honest and I
• 1:46:20
  would respond and say I'm happy to answer the question that's
• 1:46:24
  fine. After six times of just let's
• 1:46:27
  move on. You're asking why should I see?
• 1:46:30
  I see a trend here, you're asking me questions.
• 1:46:33
  I've already answered, you know. You're going to have to be the
• 1:46:38
  one to do this. I've already offered to help you
• 1:46:40
  in certain areas that you're not interested in as well, you know,
• 1:46:44
  I offered to get on a call with he and a client to help clarify
• 1:46:49
  matter. What else can I do?
• 1:46:53
  Hold on, hold on, hold on a second.
• 1:46:55
  So he has a client and you've helped him essentially like what
• 1:47:02
  secure sales and I will clarify the, sometimes we deal or
• 1:47:06
  something. He had questions about different
• 1:47:09
  steps in the sales process and onboarding process.
• 1:47:13
  I'm happy to answer those questions.
• 1:47:14
  What else can I do? I'm happy.
• 1:47:17
  I really feel like that sky above and beyond.
• 1:47:19
  I don't think why people don't do that.
• 1:47:22
  That's why I felt like Put the information in the right
• 1:47:38
  turn of phrase or how to say it to the client and as well, look,
• 1:47:41
  if you want to schedule it with me to my calendly page, I'm
• 1:47:45
  happy to jump on the call with you and the client I'll be
• 1:47:48
  available for 15 minutes or something.
• 1:47:50
  I'm not going to do this all day long.
• 1:47:51
  If this is a legitimate call with your potential client, I'm
• 1:47:55
  happy to jump on here and say look so and so has been a
• 1:47:58
  student of mine which is course. And then to our, what is it?
• 1:48:02
  You don't understand what issues do you take with him?
• 1:48:05
  Home. Let's talk about this as adults.
• 1:48:08
  I'm happy to help clarify any matters that are unclear that I,
• 1:48:13
  you don't articulate it to him or that you don't understand.
• 1:48:16
  What can I do to clear this up for a few minutes?
• 1:48:18
  I'm happy to do that. Now, like I said, he didn't want
• 1:48:21
  to do that. So and after five or six calls,
• 1:48:25
  it's enough, you know, and these are not all calls like we're
• 1:48:28
  doing now. These are questions on Zoom or
• 1:48:32
  I'm sorry, Facebook over time. So, not all of these were
• 1:48:36
  exhaustive calls. You, like, what I do about this
• 1:48:41
  or how do you feel about this? What do you think about this
• 1:48:45
  clause in my contract? Well, I'm not a lawyer.
• 1:48:47
  I'll tell you my opinion. Is just person.
• 1:48:50
  I gotta, I gotta say, like, I think that you are very, I think
• 1:48:58
  you're very patient and you do kind of do way more than I
• 1:49:01
  think, the average business special dad's probably do even,
• 1:49:06
  but I'm very conscientious and again, knock on wood.
• 1:49:11
  Thank God. I'm newly retired, I don't need
• 1:49:15
  the money. I like it, but I don't need it
• 1:49:18
  and I don't work with most clients who contact me.
• 1:49:22
  I'll work with one to three per quarter.
• 1:49:25
  I really don't, I don't want more than that, because when
• 1:49:27
  I've done it, I don't have time to go sit out on the Lanai and
• 1:49:32
  go read, Philip K dick, I don't have time to go sit outside and
• 1:49:37
  scowl at the mailman and read Ray Bradbury.
• 1:49:41
  So if I work One two three clients per quarter.
• 1:49:44
  I do have the time to you know cook dinner with my wife or
• 1:49:50
  watch. What is a show where hooked on
• 1:49:53
  now the vowel? I think it's called on HBO, I
• 1:50:00
  think it's called Diva. It's a show on HBO about the
• 1:50:05
  neck, some called in the US, the sex trafficking called.
• 1:50:10
  I recommend it. I In fact, I would say to you
• 1:50:15
  based on our conversations. I think you would find it,
• 1:50:18
  fascinating. I don't know if you have HBO,
• 1:50:21
  but look up The Vow. So if you don't, if you don't
• 1:50:24
  like it Christian, if you're not mesmerized by it, don't read
• 1:50:28
  about it. Just rent the the the
• 1:50:31
  docu-series, I predict you will really be hooked and it was, I
• 1:50:37
  was watching it and we were on episode 3.
• 1:50:39
  And I looked at my wife and I said, you know what, This guy is
• 1:50:43
  marketing. He's actually a marketing
• 1:50:46
  genius. Even though he's reprehensible
• 1:50:49
  slime as a person, he is a marketing genius.
• 1:50:54
  And is you watch it more and more of the comes out that he is
• 1:50:59
  a marketing genius, but is a human, he's reprehensible.
• 1:51:04
  I have to say, actually, that's something I've never seen, like,
• 1:51:08
  I would really like that. To be like a documentary.
• 1:51:12
  Just explores, you know, Colts in general, as they pertain to
• 1:51:17
  marketing, because I think that's a very good link right
• 1:51:19
  there because you think about like things like the Charles
• 1:51:21
  Manson Cole and you know, what is it was all still standing at
• 1:51:26
  that? That really crazy.
• 1:51:28
  Coal in the 90s jevons games, the heavens unique jars.
• 1:51:34
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:51:35
  Heaven's Gate was the guy with the big giant lies.
• 1:51:38
  Yeah. I always make my wife.
• 1:51:42
  When I do that because I said, well, I have a sty in my eye,
• 1:51:45
  I'll go like that and she'll start cracking up, that was
• 1:51:48
  Heaven's Gate. And again, if you watch it,
• 1:51:51
  there's a lot of marketing in it, but the Nexium I would
• 1:51:56
  submit to you. If you watch that docu-series
• 1:52:00
  called avow, you'll see marketing, like you never
• 1:52:03
  dreamed, I am have to check this out.
• 1:52:07
  Yes and yes, it is dark and not recommending people watch it.
• 1:52:11
  Go. Okay, I'm gonna go do that.
• 1:52:14
  But anyway, email me, I'll definitely correspond with you
• 1:52:17
  afterwards because I have some other documentaries, you know,
• 1:52:20
  and that's part of being retarded.
• 1:52:22
  I can read. When I wish I can take courses
• 1:52:24
  online and I could watch some of these documentaries and Classic
• 1:52:28
  Movies. I've always wanted to see
• 1:52:31
  Citizen Kane for the umpteenth time.
• 1:52:34
  You know, Paul Newman is the hostler watch it yet again.
• 1:52:39
  But yeah, I still love marketing and I still look for more depth
• 1:52:43
  and more substance in working sex.
• 1:52:46
  I mean, I got to say like I kind of on the same as you.
• 1:52:51
  I don't think I'll ever stop kind of working.
• 1:52:53
  I think, like, if anything, because there are some people
• 1:52:56
  that like retire retire and I get that, I appreciate that.
• 1:52:59
  I think it does depend, but I think it is always good to have
• 1:53:03
  your foot in the door. Little Bit.
• 1:53:05
  Even if you do kind of, as you said, like you've kind of paste
• 1:53:08
  it out. Now you choose your own
• 1:53:09
  projects, and that's one of the key benefits of being free.
• 1:53:12
  Like, I've really enjoyed that like in the freelance and that I
• 1:53:16
  do. One of the biggest things I love
• 1:53:18
  about it is that I choose my own hours, which sounds like, you
• 1:53:23
  know, such a simple thing. But like, I can't count of how
• 1:53:25
  many jobs I've had were, you know, I come in eight or nine in
• 1:53:29
  the morning. I get all of my work done in
• 1:53:31
  about three hours and then rest of the day, Wasted could try and
• 1:53:36
  find myself work, but have you ever tried to find yourself
• 1:53:39
  work? It is rough.
• 1:53:43
  You have to set the infrastructure.
• 1:53:45
  Like we said, right? Yeah.
• 1:53:46
  Earlier, you know, for 30 to 40 years of my life.
• 1:53:51
  I had quite bad, sleep apnea, quite severe actually.
• 1:53:56
  I was having something along the lines of 70 to 80 events per
• 1:53:59
  hour with my heart would start stop and then restart per hour.
• 1:54:03
  So it was quite Brutal. So for me, getting up and being
• 1:54:07
  in an office at 9 a.m. was very rough.
• 1:54:12
  And now that now that I have the sleep apnea treatment, they God,
• 1:54:16
  I wake up at 9 a.m. I feel great and I remember
• 1:54:19
  looking at the clock, the oh, wait a minute, I have to
• 1:54:21
  remember, I have to talk to Christian today.
• 1:54:25
  Now normally 9:00 a.m. would just be unbearable for me and
• 1:54:31
  now I wake up. I feel fine but you know, for
• 1:54:35
  people who have these types of issues it's quite difficult.
• 1:54:40
  So yeah, it's a great. If it should be able to call
• 1:54:44
  your own hours. And I think honestly, I think
• 1:54:46
  all companies should do that it's you don't need to see
• 1:54:49
  people physically. They are grinding away in
• 1:54:52
  agonizing to know that they're working.
• 1:54:54
  You actually look at the caseload.
• 1:54:56
  You see that the caseload is diminished and that's how you
• 1:54:59
  know, stuff is getting done. Hello.
• 1:55:02
  You know, that's one of the biggest things I think, when I
• 1:55:04
  look at this, this covid-19 situation and how it's changed.
• 1:55:09
  You know, business. Like I've said, for For years,
• 1:55:12
  that remote working should and will be a thing.
• 1:55:16
  And it's kind of amazing how it's taken this to kind of push
• 1:55:19
  businesses in the right direction.
• 1:55:20
  But when you really think about it, a lot of the time as far as
• 1:55:24
  marketing is concerned at least you don't need to physically be
• 1:55:28
  there to do your job. I mean a lot of it is just you
• 1:55:31
  just being in an office for show, I mean, I remember working
• 1:55:34
  for a company, I won't say who, but I remember we had a
• 1:55:37
  perfectly fine adequate office in a smaller building.
• 1:55:42
  I'm we moved to the very center of the city with the most, you
• 1:55:47
  know, the biggest tower block, there was most expensive
• 1:55:50
  building blah blah blah, right? And this is an international
• 1:55:53
  company, it's quite wasteful, it really was, I looked at it and I
• 1:55:56
  was like you know what, like this is all for show, this is
• 1:55:59
  completely unnecessary. Yeah and like this is the thing
• 1:56:02
  they've only started. Now this year to actually start
• 1:56:08
  having a base of operations where they physically involved
• 1:56:12
  So of clients that they would sometimes do it to that office.
• 1:56:16
  But mostly it was just full of workers and that's it.
• 1:56:18
  So it pointless, right? Because that's the thing.
• 1:56:20
  If you're going to show something off, then you want it
• 1:56:23
  to be the sort of thing where clients can actually go there.
• 1:56:27
  Because then it serves that purpose.
• 1:56:29
  Otherwise what's the point you might as well just have like a
• 1:56:31
  small office that you know fits your staff but doesn't isn't
• 1:56:35
  particularly expensive because you know unless you're try your
• 1:56:39
  like Google when you're trying to really cultivate Activate
• 1:56:42
  this perfect kind of work environment.
• 1:56:45
  You know, a lot of the time it's just business.
• 1:56:47
  That's even Google could be a hundred percent because what
• 1:56:51
  does Google do for sure? No but like I mean I've spoken
• 1:56:55
  to people about working at Google before and the way it
• 1:56:58
  sounds to me is that like they're doing everything in
• 1:57:01
  their power to kind of keep you there generally, like for
• 1:57:06
  example, you know, you can do your laundry there, you can
• 1:57:10
  sleep, there you This. You did like they're doing
• 1:57:12
  everything they can to try and like stop you from going home.
• 1:57:16
  You know the work never stops kind of thing.
• 1:57:18
  Actually it sounds like a cult. Doesn't it in a way?
• 1:57:21
  Yeah yeah I mean there was a guy I remember I can't remember if
• 1:57:24
  you choose not to see the Google is caught, so please don't sue
• 1:57:27
  me. Google is not a call though.
• 1:57:28
  I'm not. So now because it's I think it's
• 1:57:32
  a perspective to have. I mean because there's many
• 1:57:35
  people that leave that company disgruntled and if this is the
• 1:57:38
  thing, if you're into that, if you're in your 20s like my age,
• 1:57:41
  Or younger. And, you know, you want to meet
• 1:57:44
  loads of people like yourself and you're really into your
• 1:57:47
  career and working and stuff. Sounds great, right.
• 1:57:51
  But here's the thing, if you have a life beyond your job is
• 1:57:57
  what's right? But most most people do a place
• 1:58:01
  like that is is not good for your work-life balance because
• 1:58:05
  the work never ends, you know, like I'm a bit of a workaholic
• 1:58:09
  myself but like I know when to kind of Call it quits.
• 1:58:13
  And rest, and do something totally unrelated or, you know,
• 1:58:17
  it's important. Like, I'll give an example,
• 1:58:19
  right? I had a head like a series of
• 1:58:24
  articles that I had to deliver to this client this week and I
• 1:58:27
  could have done it in theory, all in one day.
• 1:58:30
  But I know the most effective way to do that is to spread it
• 1:58:33
  over two days because of other things that I'm doing and also
• 1:58:37
  because I know how effective I'm going to be and how good quality
• 1:58:41
  the Stuff is going to be if I spread it out and do that and
• 1:58:44
  give myself well needed rest time because it's not just, it's
• 1:58:48
  not just about the work itself, is also about, you know, looking
• 1:58:51
  after yourself and you just work continuously for it.
• 1:58:56
  This is why I like the whole nine to five thing is a bit of a
• 1:58:59
  fast because you know, they said, I call you work to you
• 1:59:02
  burn out then you have your holiday, right?
• 1:59:04
  But it shouldn't be like that. It should be like, can you
• 1:59:06
  really enjoy it if you want? If you've already burned out and
• 1:59:10
  traumatized yourself, Now, you can have your holiday.
• 1:59:13
  Are you really going to enjoy it?
• 1:59:14
  Or are you going to be at your holiday saying?
• 1:59:17
  Oh my God, I went to so much Stone trying to get to this
• 1:59:21
  point and, you know, now I feel so fractured from this
• 1:59:25
  experience. Do you know, don't let others
• 1:59:28
  call your life for you. Don't let them climb shots, you
• 1:59:31
  know, Empower yourself to live the life that you want.
• 1:59:36
  But know that once you enter the forest and there are going to be
• 1:59:39
  wolves and snakes and And other Predators be before war and as
• 1:59:45
  we sold, bring everything to a close for today.
• 1:59:48
  Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts that
• 1:59:52
  you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:59:55
  I need, I really don't have any projects that I could learn
• 1:59:58
  anyone to at the moment. I mean I'm working on some
• 2:00:01
  books. But next, I have to write, I
• 2:00:03
  have to write them after. I have to write them therein
• 2:00:07
  lies. The rub is they said, but I have
• 2:00:09
  the outlines for Two more business books that I want to
• 2:00:14
  write it a very, very different. And I want to brush up my
• 2:00:18
  courses and make them even better.
• 2:00:20
  But other than that, you know, no I'm not, I am the project.
• 2:00:26
  Life is the project and I recommend everybody try to look
• 2:00:30
  at it like that. And, of course, anyone who wants
• 2:00:33
  help with marketing in turning around a failing business, can
• 2:00:38
  reach me by going to Google and type in a DM.
• 2:00:41
  S dot blue. Lou or go to that little address
• 2:00:43
  bar and type in DMS Tableau and hitting enter excellent thanks
• 2:00:49
  than that. Thank you so much for agreeing
• 2:00:52
  to be a guest. On the show has been really
• 2:00:54
  interesting talking to you learning about your business,
• 2:00:57
  that it about how, you know your career.
• 2:00:59
  How you think about marketing and everything?
• 2:01:01
  I thought I could take deep hours if I'm honest, I'd be
• 2:01:06
  happy to do part two with you. I mean, there are there days
• 2:01:10
  when I have mixed feelings about Marketing and, you know, you
• 2:01:14
  know, and I think you picked up on that, you know, marketing is
• 2:01:17
  not necessarily leading a called, but there are elements
• 2:01:20
  to a called or that that let's say that there are marketing
• 2:01:24
  elements that very effective. Cults, do you use?
• 2:01:28
  And in fact, I mean, one of the best-selling marketing books
• 2:01:31
  tribes by Seth Godin, he talks about creating your own tribe.
• 2:01:36
  I would take that concept A step further and say, go create your
• 2:01:41
  own call, but it's with the caveat, obviously, that you must
• 2:01:45
  do things that are morally conscionable and do it for the
• 2:01:50
  good of humanity, not just for the individual, and there's
• 2:01:56
  some, there's much more to it. I mean, there's multi-level
• 2:01:58
  marketing, and there's other factors that go into this, but
• 2:02:03
  there are days when I feel Your body.
• 2:02:07
  Your marketing can be good to be used for good or ill just like
• 2:02:11
  anything else. This glass that I have can be
• 2:02:14
  used to give me sustaining water, or it could be used for
• 2:02:17
  evil. I could use it to go and hurt
• 2:02:19
  someone. So it's the tool and we and we
• 2:02:23
  have to remember that and for any small business owner, or
• 2:02:26
  entrepreneur, or nonprofit, or startup owner, my message for
• 2:02:31
  you would be to please realize that marketing that It is
• 2:02:36
  effective that delivers results is a process that needs to be
• 2:02:42
  organized, deliberately and structured.
• 2:02:44
  And then acted upon, it's not a one-and-done, physical item.
• 2:02:49
  It's not throwing a pound of rice at the wall to see what
• 2:02:51
  sticks not if you want to see some traction from it, it's not
• 2:02:56
  black and white. It's not super simple.
• 2:02:58
  It requires dissemination of information in finding out what
• 2:03:02
  is it that you really want to do and why, how serious are you
• 2:03:05
  about it? What do we have?
• 2:03:06
  Work with so that I feel I want to end things on a note that is
• 2:03:13
  as honest and as accurate as I can be.
• 2:03:17
  Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing.
• 2:03:19
  Really appreciate our. I'm sure our listeners will love
• 2:03:22
  to hear that and yeah, I, you know, completely agree.
• 2:03:26
  It's exactly how I see it too. I've made a conscious effort to
• 2:03:30
  kind of make sure that my marketing efforts are steering
• 2:03:33
  more in that direction and stuff.
• 2:03:36
  So right? And I would say, yeah, and I
• 2:03:38
  would say, don't be a workaholic Christian, is someone who's a
• 2:03:42
  little bit older? Don't be a workaholic.
• 2:03:44
  I love it though. I love it.
• 2:03:46
  I love Long Walk. Don't get me wrong, don't get me
• 2:03:48
  wrong. Like there's a difference?
• 2:03:50
  Yeah, it depends. I think you have to love what
• 2:03:52
  you do. Yeah.
• 2:03:54
  And then it's not, like I always give myself a break, like I
• 2:03:59
  always kind of treat it like that old slogan of work.
• 2:04:02
  Hard, play hard, you know, like some days.
• 2:04:04
  I'm super lazy. You know, some days.
• 2:04:06
  Some days. I don't do anything.
• 2:04:07
  It's just most days. I worked really hard.
• 2:04:11
  It just happens. Yeah, interspersed that.
• 2:04:15
  Yes, with Act. With activity that resonates
• 2:04:19
  with you emotionally, that gets you back to who you are as a
• 2:04:24
  human being in this world. You know, I always take a break
• 2:04:29
  every couple of hours. I'll go and sit with our pet
• 2:04:31
  rabbit, you know, rubber cheeks, and we'll sit together and show
• 2:04:35
  lick my hand, I'll rub her head will take, will go back and
• 2:04:38
  forth and do that for 20 minutes, I'll say all right.
• 2:04:40
  Look you know that you're loved and I know that you love me
• 2:04:44
  because you looking every inch of me.
• 2:04:46
  Why? You to that licking my hand.
• 2:04:48
  Let's leave it at that but you know but you do things to break
• 2:04:52
  up the monotony. Go I'll go sit outdoors and
• 2:04:54
  wheat for a couple of hours and after I need to do that more and
• 2:04:57
  more because the more you read the easier it is for you to
• 2:05:01
  write. And it's also important when you
• 2:05:03
  talk about being a workaholic, you get out what you put in.
• 2:05:08
  So whatever it is that you're taking in, will be what you put
• 2:05:13
  out. We are what we practice.
• 2:05:15
  I forget if it was Seneca, Or Aristotle who said that we are,
• 2:05:18
  what we do, what we practice. So if what you do is loving
• 2:05:25
  toward those people who matter most to you than do, remember
• 2:05:28
  that not the work that you do? Ultimately, absolutely.
• 2:05:33
  Thank you. Thank you very much for
• 2:05:34
  appearing on the show. I want to say thank you very
• 2:05:36
  much to our listeners. Please continue to like share,
• 2:05:40
  subscribe. If you're listening to us on an
• 2:05:43
  audio platform, please give us a rating.
• 2:05:45
  I know that there's real Things on websites or apps such as
• 2:05:49
  Spotify and apple podcast. So make sure if you're listening
• 2:05:52
  there, give us a good review and obviously, yeah, for YouTube and
• 2:05:56
  everything, like, share, subscribe, all that stuff.
• 2:05:59
  And yeah, I'm really enjoying this.
• 2:06:01
  I'm having some really great guests, as always, it's a real
• 2:06:05
  pleasure. Thank you for listening.
• 2:06:06
  And until next time, peace out. One love.
• 2:06:09
  I'll see you in the next one.