Latest / The Data Shaman Podcast - Quant Mind, Shaman Soul / He Quit at Number One. Then He Rebuilt Himself | Ming Chan

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He Quit at Number One. Then He Rebuilt Himself | Ming Chan · The Data Shaman Podcast - Quant Mind, Shaman Soul

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome everyone.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: We are here at the Silver Faust in Hong Kong for an episode of the season fucking and then well then thanks for having me, Daniel.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: First and I think my story starts when I first moved to Hong Kong about eight years ago.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was living in New York but then a quick background about my roots is that I was born and raised in Hong Kong till seven.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then I moved to New York City with my family, completed my education, worked a couple of years, and then I moved to Hong Kong.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So back in New York, I was always in the corporate world.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my first job, I was doing a project managing at a translation company.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I got a promotion after one year, and then it was an office job looking at the computer eight to ten hours daily, Monday to Friday.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, is this what corporate job is?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went in and then I said, no, this is not the life I want.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I went entirely 180.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I went client-facing.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I got my license as a real estate realtor.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I started client-facing, bringing people out on the street, seeing apartments, doing luxury rental, close my first sales in Battery Park City.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So everything was going great.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I loved the real estate.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to parties.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, everything is free.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of hot girls, too.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's like pro bono.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I was still young during that time.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to basically venture out, leave New York City, which always been my home.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to move to Asia.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got a job opportunity in Hong Kong.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never got into recruitment before.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: The per uh their company hired me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I stayed there for three and a half years.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then my ex-boss, he left basically four months after I came.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't had a chance to kind of prove to him that you made the right hiring decision.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So he approached me after three and a half years and said, hey, can you help me build out their APAC Legion for Attuario?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was an Attuario recruiter for I think about six years.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I uh I went there and then I had to take uh well I decided to kind of leave basically.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I decided to leave because I was just thinking, yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, I got a biscuit too, okay.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So leave?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I decided to leave because I was deeply unsatisfied about my situation.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was I always thought recruitment was my calling because I get a blunt enough office work and also people uh placing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um placing people, people facing, going out with client meeting, coffee.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was meeting a bunch of other people in the corporate world.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but something just didn't sit right with me.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I noticed that basically the first few months since I started recruitment.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the whole idea of talking to another human being with agenda, trying to move them to X to Y, that never sits with me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was good at my job.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got some achievement.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, at that moment I just decide to I want to try something new.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I haven't figured out what I wanted to do.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: What what what was the moment that you said this don't worry for me?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Was it like a catalyst?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or it was like something that you plan in the plan.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it's um it's definitely I think it's definitely um a combination of a couple things.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think my mindset was shifting.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: My mindset was shifting from chasing, chasing as in chasing deals, closing deals, to more of how come I'm doing this?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember that time back that 2023, I basically became their top biller of the company.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's kind of being number one.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's also like number two, three underneath.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized, okay, I got the achievement, but what's after?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and do I need to set a higher goal next time to chase again and restart?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or like what am I trying to achieve here?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't find a life purpose in terms of what I'm doing.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I'm moving people to a better place, but it could be a shit place.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would never know after I moved that person unless I start communicating with them after a year or two.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, those those didn't really sit right with me.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was also running into some office kind of um I think politics, yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Office politics.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I do think that once you get up to a certain level, you know, people, insecurity will come in, they're jealousy, and it just feels like, oh, you know, it just doesn't sit right with me.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is not the environment I want to be be in.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, yeah, I wanted to do something, but to I think now that I reflect that what happened two and a half years ago is that I during that time I just needed to reset.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like reset my entire life, reset the entire 32 years of my life, basically killing my own ego to reborn as someone new.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I needed that reason to chop off my work.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I needed that reason to chop off during that time my romantic relationship with someone else.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I just went out and explored.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to yoga, retreat, just somewhere quiet that allows me to think what I wanted to do.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's when I slowly find my way towards, huh?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I need some help, like self-help, um, in order to collect your own identity back again.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta first look where the broken pieces are.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And someone needs to help you to look for these broken pieces.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's when I met my therapist.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've been learning, and then I just found where we're meaningful in terms of the work my therapist does, and also it's helping me personally with my personal growth.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I got into this whole black hole of mental well-being.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wanted to kind of basically flourish myself from there.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: While helping others, I'm also helping myself, keep reminding myself on these are the things that I cannot give up.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: In order to help others, I have to take care of myself first.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So these are reasons why I slowly led to, oh, I wanted to launch a mens chart go.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's looking at next month in August.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, I can launch it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: It will be English conducted, and ultimately I want to grow it and then help the local men in Cantonese and slowly branch out from there.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Which I do think it's very crucial to have more initiative like these.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a vulnerable safe space for people to talk and learn and also to support each other and to let them know that they're not alone.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: The stories of the here about people we can corporate the glue looking like something else.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the thing to create the focus from their ego, as you said.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Someone else, to others, whether it is the community whether it is something whether the keys or the like and in group of people where they think there is something we can give to them.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well you know you generally have a reliant.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: End point.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like that you're very young, you're 32.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm 34 now.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: This year, yes.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think so that like there is a an age where these happens?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Or something like how do you feel about that?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: About being like relatively young and switching the focus and like that's a really good question.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that you're a hundred percent right in terms of the work in the mental health space, there tend to be more older men devoting themselves into versus younger guy.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I remember back in um when I was working at a real estate firm in City Habitat, the receptionists always said, Ming, you're young, but you gotta o so.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that kind of hit me.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I because I have always been hanging out with older men.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: The proportion, it's more older men versus younger guys.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to listen.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I like to listen to their stories, I like to listen to their lessons.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm worried, I'm like a sponge.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, teach me things, I can soak it in.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I do find that those are probably reasons why I'm slowly coming into this stage of being mid-30.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of feel like a way of awakening.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Awakening as in finding my like purpose and not chasing external achievement, external approval.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I just kind of uh humble and also glad that I was able to awake at such an age so that I can devote myself for many more other years to help others.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully that can also attract a younger demographic to start looking into this area so that these men or people can also learn to awake and find what really matters in their life.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: We we tend to root it the sort of like the standalone.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: You go you study, you do well, you go to the minibos the start to joggy start to ward.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: You think we start to we see that as a negative famous you know, forms or like what's okay for me?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's a negative thing on the way how the society set up an imprint towards a younger child, but then towards teenage, I think the goal map it's already planted out and the society and to live in a society there just needs to be structure.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think having that structure is actually good.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Although liney following the structure itself could be harmful because we will constantly seek for another superior orders of do this, do that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're doing it without actually processing why you're doing these things.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you do it, then you're just gonna follow to their own, their superiors' pathway.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they haven't processed the entire thing too.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it will become a chain of fit of just just follow the tradition.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is their way of doing.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not questioning it, and there's no more recreation of new ideas, new ways of doing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think that will limit the creativity of the individuals.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So to answer your question, there's good and there's bad to a certain extent.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: A few particular But what it relates with me is the concept of the congency on the life.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like you want to choose what you want to give like your eyes fully open like without blindly following the trends.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: But it is hard to do and not that I want to be like to to to get to your like the method that you're using, but not.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: But how if there is a course that he's going through some tough time Marge, his identity or who they are, his identity society wants everyone.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: How do we tackle that?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: What do you start with?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it has to start within the person themselves.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: If they realize it's it's not a problem for them to doing what they're doing, then there's no problem there's no problem needs to be fixed or rectified.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: It really depends on that person whether they think they want to change or not.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it starts within.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you were asking advice, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: You said um how how how would you how would you address the conversation with them?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if somebody comes to you.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So say for instance, me and that person, we never met.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: He came up and then said, Ming, I just want to talk to you.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, sure, I'm open for a conversation.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: We start talking and then he started inventing about work, about family, all these things.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: All I could say is that, hey, I resonate with you.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I hear that you have a lot of pain.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of dissatisfaction.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're dissatisfied about your current life.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I hear that.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's up to their to respond.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Be like, I want to change or I'm okay to continue meant.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: The choice is up to them.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that person has to have that self-awareness of these are problems, why are they problems?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what am I going to do about with these problems?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really starting within their self-awareness of what they hope to achieve in that conversation.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: How talking to me.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I find that many people are dissatisfied.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: So like because you've got the pressure of family, pressure of work, pressure of like social idea we're not.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um but they're stuck in the loop.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they get awareness, but if they hide it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: You see the same thing.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I see I see the pattern within myself completely.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is definitely an easy way to blame the hobby.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we talked about awareness, but there's something like you mentioned that you, for example, you took some time off to retreat.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something you would advise or I know?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think everyone's solution is different.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do, so I'll just sign up for a retreat.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I need a place to reset.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it worked out for me.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't know if retreat is for everyone.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like someone who trusts God.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I trust their upper being, but I won't say I'm religious.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there's different tools in in doing it.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, breaking the pattern, I think it's very interesting because first you have to develop the self-awareness that, oh, this is the pattern I'm facing.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then you mentioned, ah, I see the pattern, but I'm hiding it because of this pressure I'm getting.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I need to make money, support the family, all these things.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, 100%.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's external pressure that you're using to suppress whatever you're feeling inside.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that pattern may never be broken simply just because your willpower.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: You need something more than your willpower.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You need an environment that actually lets you reset.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: You need someone who actually help you guide.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: You notice the pattern?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how often do you notice this pattern?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And these patterns, what are they doing to you on a mycidosis level on your daily life?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what is that stopping you from achieving ultimately?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a lot of questioning around this, yes.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, totally in the mind is going is going to a direction which is yeah.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I will share it with you.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh um yes, these uh these kind of like pension.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're quite common.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the solution is sort of like is individually uh individually is unique and therefore they need to find their own way to deal with it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: But what happens sort of like what becomes um public or little people are tracked in fool is for people to say actually I'm gonna stop this life and gonna start from picking well like for example what you've done.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: But people do not talk about other ways to deal with that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: The ways to other ways to say yes, I'm I'm locally satisfied about the extension meter denies.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: What could I like what what is tool that people do to deal with that?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, from like putting and starting something new or I I think.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most common tactics people are either you you fight flight freeze.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you fight it, that's changing.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Put in the work to actually change.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then you also get flight, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this problem, this familiar feeling is coming back again.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to deal with it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just try to smoke a joint.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let me grab a beer.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just, you know, find find a girl and have sex with.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Something to give you a quick dopamine fuss.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or you get freeze.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: He like, uh, it's happening again.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I'm doing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna let it happen because I just don't know what I'm doing.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think these are very normal for human behaviors to do so if I fight freeze.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I and there's a lot of people, and they oftentimes will choose maybe quote unquote the easier way out by neglecting the problem.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's the most common trait.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um for people who are maybe stuck on the freeze mode, it's more like very traumatic experience.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: They just don't know how to deal with it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then for people who are really ready to fight, is that I truly believe, I truly believe, and also I've been reminding myself during their time of transformation, is that the only reason why I'm changing is because the pain of not changing is greater than the change will bring me.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that is when I know I'm devoted.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I need to change myself, I need to kill my self ego, I need to kill that self centric mindset in order to be born.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And what you do what you said the really I think is really important which it is the self-centric mindset because uh once you start to open up through you're not anymore the center of the universe.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a universe itself.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So but I guess what really sort of then to then it probably is where the perspective really becomes uh powerful.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um just also like another sort of like questioner.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: So now for being uh you said they've been like a year and a half in this transition.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Two and a half.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Two and a half years in transition.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um wouldn't stand?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I can imagine that the resource like he has to pay, yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: He said, you know, you need to pay too like how did you handle it?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well I was definitely terrified.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the dark space for first two months, two and a half months, maybe even three months.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I had like suicidal thoughts.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I had just just like if I changed how would people react towards me now?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was living in fear and want to come out with the new me.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's a lot of fear, darkness, swamminess, like they just it's just that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think at that moment I slowly just accept, okay, Ming, I know you're scared.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just accepting that fear, it's within me.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to fight it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to do anything with it.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just coexisting with my other feelings.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And gradually they become part of my nervous system.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Then I kind of are able to present myself in a cohesive way, being one system, rather than hiding this or just sewing this or being selective.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: But this is just me as a human being.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is my entire nervous system.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, accepting it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: And okay, now let's look in the future.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you mentioned about treatment to help men.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something else?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you what are your plans?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: What are the trees like?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my my vision.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um my vision is that I wanted to start a men's circle.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a men's circle it's different than what move men is doing.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Move men is more on a topic basis, teaching people their techniques.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: For me, my vision of the move uh of the men's circle, which uh already started some accounts, um, it will be name and use the initial MKC.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um Menhood and Kinship Circle.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the name I'm going to be using.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: What I hope to achieve in there is to create a safe enough space for people to just express themselves, talk about their fears, their life struggles, and do this medium of able to express themselves, but they're learning, accepting their fears.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And once they accept their fears, then they will have an option of either you fight, you flight, or you freeze again.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: But just to let them know that other men are facing the same exact thing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're not alone, they don't have to face it, and that's where a lot of men get depressed because they try to face it alone, not telling anyone.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, that drives the suicidal rate high because they do not know how to open up, get the support they need.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that is my vision of creating a vulnerable space circle for people to share.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there are going to be guidelines in terms of what in terms of the participants need to agree on these guidelines, then they are able to kind of share.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's why I've been taking um a men's circle facilitation course program and I completed just last month.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so that's why I'm excited that I feel like I'm ready for it and I want to launch it next month.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Basically it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: So how can B Guru reach out to you?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think right now I'm not like the best market guru is other.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think mainly do social media, LinkedIn.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how effective Facebook group is nowadays, and I think just use social media, I think will help.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And also I really want to count on their conventional way of word of mouth.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: This man felt it's he's hurt.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: He said this is a safe space.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: He bought another friend of his to come slowly grow this organically.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is what I'm really aiming for.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to help the whole world, but one so at a time, I think that's in a that's just me.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: When ask questions if we're a big person of He's something to sometimes ask myself.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Where you were growing up, as a young boy.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see yourself doing something?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um clues?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: But no.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I know I'm always good at with people.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm good at I know I can make a living out of talking.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's why I thought recruitment was my calling.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um just talking to people.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so there are clues here, and then also I remember when I was maybe late late teens or early twenties, my acne problem was huge.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was like volcano eruption, and I was having terrible self-esteem.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I always know I wanted to help the people who also suffered acne.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: To tell them it's okay, just accept slowly build that confident enough and just gone.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there are clues, but I did not know uh it will be the bullet to many uh so yeah, there's like brick phones basically.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Break drums are probably the right way to explain it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh so me, thank you for the mic.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna push it to the conversation of beautiful should you come in here to still look out and uh looking forward to joining with our uh the group.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that'd be lovely.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Daniel.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Red my colours when I choose.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not when the crowd demands The fairest things they folded close Till they're held in gentleman.