Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / Norby Presents: How anxiety and depression led this founder to a high growth cannabis business, with TONIC's Brittany Carbone (Part 1)

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Norby Presents: How anxiety and depression led this founder to a high growth cannabis business, with TONIC's Brittany Carbone (Part 1) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Brittany Carbone for Female Startup Club. Hey guys, welcome back to the show. It's Dune here, your host and hype girl.
• 0:19
  I am super excited about today's episode, which is brought to you by our good friends at Norby because we're chatting to Brittany Carbone, who is the founder of a company called Tonic. Tonic is a CBD company that creates these beautiful tinctures mixed in with adaptogens to help us feel better and help us feel our best.
• 0:42
  Brittany's taken tonic from a tiny side hustle operating out of her parents' kitchen to a seven-figure business, in addition to a hemp farm that she started on her parents' property in upstate New York. This story is seriously a good one and so inspiring.
• 1:01
  We're talking about the actual pitch to build a hemp farm on her parents' property. We're talking about navigating the struggles of building a business in the cannabis industry. We're talking about the power of organic grassroots marketing and a mistake that cost her $25,000. Oh my God. If you know someone who would benefit from hearing this episode, please do share it with them and let's get straight into it. This is Brittany for Female Startup Club.
• 1:32
  Brittany, hi, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I know we've had a few scheduling things going on and you've been doing some really exciting stuff. How was Harvest? It was good. It was a lot of work as Harvest always is, so having a cannabis farm.
• 1:52
  outdoors in New York you're up against the weather you're up against a lot of different conditions but uh you know even in the perfect conditions harvest is a lot of work but you know we got all of our plants out of the field they just finished drying and carrying and now we are on to uh you know trimming them up and getting them ready to uh go into some products wow that is so cool what does trimming mean
• 2:15
  So when the plants, you know, fresh out of the field, they have a lot of the leaves on them, you know, the big kind of classic cannabis leaves that, you know, you picture that, you know, are everywhere, right? But you actually take those leaves off and then, you know, you kind of trim it up and you kind of, you know, manicure and landscape the buds a little bit of them, a little haircut. So then, you know, those leaves are removed and you just have the buds left. And that is really, you know, the end product that, you know, people are used to seeing when they purchase cannabis. Yeah.
• 2:45
  Love it. Give them a little bit of love before they get out into the world. I feel like this is a great time for you to give us the introduction to you and what your brand actually is.
• 2:57
  Sure. So I started Tonic in 2017, like early 2017. I started to develop products really for my own use. I've struggled with depression most of my life. Anxiety later on in my teenage years became a big problem. And cannabis was really always something that helped me deal with those issues and manage them. But
• 3:20
  I was really getting to a point where it wasn't kind of work day friendly. I needed something that was going to allow me to function throughout the day. You know, I was a personal trainer at the time. So you need to really be high energy working these crazy hours and everything. Nobody wants like a zonked out personal trainer. It's not super motivating. Right. So so that is when I learned about CBD and, you know, to kind of cut to the chase in terms of what tonic is. You know, we make CBD products, but.
• 3:48
  We really look beyond CBD to create a more holistic and integrative wellness solution for mind and body. And we do that by using different adaptogens, herbs, and superfoods that complement the effects of CBD in specific ways and enhance certain benefits. So that way you can really target the effects that you want.
• 4:07
  because that's definitely one of the issues that a lot of people face with cbd is like it could be really hard to find the dose that's right for you it can do so many things but it's like how do you get it to do what you actually want when you want to do it right so i've tried cbd you know for the first time it was like late 2016 and i was super hesitant about it honestly i was like this is like fake weed like i don't understand you know like
• 4:29
  I smoke weed every day. Why do I need this different kind of weed now? Like, and that was really when it was brought to my attention that the weed that, you know, I was consuming, the cannabis I was consuming on a daily basis, um, is very high in THC, right? So THC is the compound that, that gets you high. It has the psychoactive effects, right? Or intoxicating effects of cannabis. So, you know, I wasn't really realizing that, you know, that was all THC, but there's this whole kind of spectrum of other compounds that are naturally found in cannabis, um, that have
• 4:59
  bred out of the kind of recreational or medical cannabis that you consume to get high, right? So it's bred with very high THC levels and very low CBD because they're antagonists, right? So
• 5:13
  if there's really high THC, there's going to be really low CBD and vice versa. So understanding that CBD was a separate compound that I was not actually getting in the cannabis that I was consuming daily, I was like, okay, this makes a little bit more sense as to why I would need to supplement with, you know, something different like this and, you know, has different effects, but I still didn't really understand fully how it was doing that or kind of why those different compounds were important. So
• 5:40
  I gave it a shot anyway. I was like, you know what? My friend recommended it. I'll try it out, whatever. It can't hurt. And I went to a local head shop that was selling a little bottle of CBD, not that strong or anything for like 90 bucks. And I was like, oh my God, this is expensive. And it felt like I was buying just
• 6:02
  weed paraphernalia you know I had to go into kind of like a seedy head shop and you know and so it was kind of like a weird experience but gave it a shot and I was honestly surprised at how well it really worked to help you know mitigate my anxiety um and like one of my clients who you know really friendly with actually like said to me what like a couple days after I was taking it was like like what's wrong with you why are you in such a good mood and I was like oh yeah like I am in a really good mood like what what is going on and I was like oh
• 6:27
  took that CBD. That's really the only thing that's different. So I really started to pay attention to, you know, how it was making me feel. I was noticing like my workout recovery was better. You know, my sleep was improving. And like, you know, of course, you know, the main thing that I was focusing on, um, the anxiety was definitely improved in my mood. So I was really like, okay, I need to understand how it's, how it's doing this now. Right. Because, you know, at this point I had gone through, you know,
• 6:50
  college level education on physiology, biology, nutrition, I was a certified nutrition coach, and really understanding all these things about the human body. And nobody talked about this really integral system that we have within us called the endocannabinoid system. And as I started to learn about the endocannabinoid system, which is this
• 7:09
  giant kind of regulatory network within our bodies that its main goal is to restore and maintain homeostasis or our body's ideal state of balance that it's always striving towards right we called like the goldilocks zone it's where everything is just right and operating just as it should so it sounds good
• 7:26
  Yeah, right. So that's really the role of the endocannabinoid system. And it works with all these different parts of our bodies to make sure that, you know, it's everything is working in harmony, that all these different parts of our bodily systems are working together and working as they should. So I really understanding that I've started to understand how CBD works.
• 7:47
  uh, interacts with this system in a different way that THC does. And that's why they have different effects, right? Why CBD is not, uh, is not going to produce that high that THC does is because THC binds to certain receptors in your brain called the CB1 receptors. And that is, it kind of fits in like a lock and key. And that's what activates that kind of that, um, psychoactive effect.
• 8:09
  CBD, on the other hand, is actually, like I said, an antagonist. So it actually blocks that receptor. Not only does it not fit into it, it blocks it. So if you were to have a product that had basically the same amount of CBD and THC, right, like I have a gummy that's 10 milligrams CBD, 10 milligrams THC, you're not actually going to feel as high as you would from a 10 milligram THC only gummy because of the
• 8:39
  producing those effects, right? So it's a good tip for people out there. If you get too high, have CBD on the ready. So but because it can help bring you down. But anyway, it was really understanding how CBD was working with the endocannabinoid system to kind of like send all these signals to help regulate the system, right? Like I said, to restore that homeostasis,
• 9:00
  And that's when I really made the connection between CBD and endocannabinoid system and more traditional, well-known adaptogens like ashwagandha. So ashwagandha was something that I was using in my routine, one of the only things that I felt I could really notice a difference with and was really helping with my mood and my stress levels, things like that. So I started to really connect the dots that both of these things, both CBD and ashwagandha, they both are working towards the same goals, right?
• 9:29
  balance, better mood, energy levels, all that, right? All in the interest of bringing us back to that place of homeostasis, a perfect balance. But they take different pathways to get there. So while CBD is really activating the endocannabinoid system and our serotonin levels, ashwagandha is more so working with our cortisol levels and our hyperpituitary adrenal axis, right? So they're taking these different pathways to accomplish the same goal.
• 9:59
  combining them, they'd be able to cover more ground and more efficiently and effectively, you know, reach those goals. And, you know, long story short, that's exactly what happened. I started to combine these two things, kind of just like a very crude combination that I was making in my home for myself. And I, that's like where I was like, felt like CBD got me almost where I needed to be. Like ashwagandha got me almost where I needed to be, but combining them is got, got me like
• 10:23
  really, you know, what I was looking for in terms of, you know, really helping with my anxiety and my mood and my energy levels. So, you know, that was just huge for me personally, but I started to really see how it could really benefit a lot of the clients that I was working with as well. So like I said, I was a personal trainer. I was working with people from all different populations, right? Older people who were more so focused on, you know, mobility and,
• 10:51
  you know, do stretching and mobility work and stuff like that to like, you know, 20 year old athletes and, you know, everything in between. Right. So just really understanding how stress and, you know, chronic stress leads to chronic inflammation and this cycle that we all get stuck in, you know, to kind of no fault of our own. It's really just, that's the reality of modern life, right. Is that we're just kind of, we're constantly stimulated. We're overstressed, overworked, like
• 11:15
  We always feel like we have to be go, go, go. We're, you know, bombarded with so much stimulus throughout the day from our phones, from the news, you know, everywhere we go, right? So it gets, it becomes really difficult to actually, you know, accomplish your health and wellness goals, whether that's to lose weight, to be in less pain, to get stronger. All these things are inhibited by these chronically elevated cortisol levels or stress hormone levels and chronic inflammation.
• 11:40
  You know, your body is kind of basically in like is so busy putting out fires that it's not, you know, getting to the point where it's actually rebuilding. Right. And so how I saw it was that this could be a way to really get people to, you know, kind of stop just digging ourselves out of the hole that we've created with stress and everything like that and actually be able to get to the baseline where we can build health and wellness upon. Right. So, you know, it's really about just getting to that baseline, getting to that point of homeostasis, getting out of our fight or flight response.
• 12:10
  response and allowing our bodies to really do what it needs to do to repair and to grow and to feel better. So I started to share this formula with my clients and, you know, they were getting the same kind of results that I was. They were really amazed with how they felt, how much better that they were feeling just overall taking this. So then I really started to, you know, think of other ways that, you know, CBD can address a lot of the issues that my clients were facing. And
• 12:35
  A lot of them were pain related, right? And CBD is such a potent anti-inflammatory that it started to do more research around CBD and pain relief and topical solutions rather than the ingestible ones I was making. And it created a roll-on oil
• 12:51
  um, for pain relief that I always started to use with a lot of my clients. And that was really like the cool part was, you know, these older kind of more conservative clients that I had who I knew would be very hesitant if I told them what it was, uh, that I was, you know, wanting to put on them, I would just say, Hey, like I made this, you know, natural plant-based, you know, pain relief oil. Do you mind if I put it on that shoulder, that's been bothering you and see how you feel.
• 13:14
  yeah, no problem. Put it on and like, you know, do a little work and have them move it around and to see their faces like almost immediately, that pain that has been been there and just kind of, you know, just agonizing. And even if it's just like adult pain, like, you know, the range of motion that they were not able to accomplish and they're just moving it no problem. And their face is like, oh my God, like, what is that? What did you just, what did you just put on me? And then I tell them like, it's called CBD. It's, you know, I'm actually from, you know, the cannabis
• 13:44
  I would always explain it as like, it's like medical marijuana, but without the high, right? And it's like all the benefits of medical marijuana, but without the intoxicating effects.
• 13:53
  And because at that time, you know, early 2017, CBD was not widely known whatsoever. Right. It was very, very new to everybody. Like I said, I was a cannabis consumer for 10 years at that point, and it was still new to me. So explaining that to people and getting that, getting them to understand that was a really big part of it. And then from there, I just really, you know, utilize this, you know, kind of built in.
• 14:15
  you know, test audience that I had with my clients and everything. And I was able to get their feedback, like what, what's like, you know, what do you want to see? What do you need help with the most? Where do you feel like you could use like the most improvement and like, you know, kind of what issues need to be addressed? And everybody said sleep.
• 14:33
  Everybody like across the board, sleep was the biggest issue. So that really led me to create a chill tonic, which is now, you know, pretty much from day one. And to this day has been our best selling product, hands down. And it basically takes the same formula as the OG, which is the that original blend of CBD and ashwagandha that I created. So it takes that.
• 14:55
  and adds lemon balm and passion flower and a little bit of a higher dose of CBD. So the lemon balm and passion flower really create a much more calming effect. It really activates certain receptors and neurotransmitters in your body to signal your nervous system to slow down. Helps with insomnia. Helps with racing thoughts, anxiety. So you get all those balancing and restorative effects that you do with that original OG formula.
• 15:20
  but it just takes that calming effect to the next level. And, you know, like I said, it was, you know, just from day one until now has been our best selling product. And, you know, it's just, we've evolved since from there and pretty quickly thereafter, like I said, this was like early 2017, I, you know, became, you know, as I started making more of these products and, you know, kind of
• 15:41
  giving it to more of my community. One problem was very clear was that the supply chain and the supply of the raw materials, like the CBD extracts themselves, were not the quality or the consistency that I wanted for my products. Especially coming from the background that I
• 16:02
  I know knew that, you know, the quality of the ingredients is what's going to make or break this product. Right. It's, you know, it's nothing without the quality. So I was really frustrated with the fact that, you know, there wasn't a lot of states producing CBD at the time. So there wasn't a big supply to pull from. It was, you know, super unregulated, just like, you know, very wild, wild west kind of style. And so cowboys out there.
• 16:26
  Exactly. And I was getting ripped off and it was just, it was a nightmare. So I had this idea that, you know, my, my family has a property in upstate New York. I'm originally from Long Island, like, you know, pretty close to New York city. But my family has property in upstate New York. My husband and I had actually gotten married there back in 2015. And, you know, my parents started to spend more time up there after that, turned it into a full fledged wedding venue after, after our wedding, it came out so well. Oh my God, that's amazing.
• 16:56
  Yeah. So I had this idea to approach my parents and say, hey, what do you think about growing hemp on this land? Because this is going to be a huge industry. There's going to be huge demand and there has to be other people out there like me who really demand a higher caliber quality material for their products and really care about what's going into the products that they're making and that they're selling. So not only can we provide
• 17:24
  tonic and our products with you know the the quality that you know that we're demanding but we can provide that same service for other like-minded brands so luckily my parents are you know i guess just as crazy as i am and they were they were down to uh
• 17:39
  found to go for it. And we got our license from New York State to grow hemp in late 2017. We were among the first privately licensed farmers in the state to be able to grow. And yeah, we've been growing every year since then. We got our organic certification, certified organic farm
• 17:58
  for family owned and operated in upstate New York, and, you know, really focus on sustainable and regenerative agriculture, making sure that we're giving the land as much as we are taking from it, if not more, because at the end of the day, that's what really, you know, is going to determine the quality.
• 18:14
  your products, but also really determine like, you know, cannabis can be such a beacon of sustainability if it's done right. And we really feel like it's, you know, if we're going to be growing this and taking that on to really be doing it responsibly and in a way that, you know, is good for the land and good for the environment around us and helping to, you know, contribute to the ecosystem rather than taking anything away from it. That's all part of the healing, right? It's all part of this, this bigger, you know,
• 18:39
  picture. Our motto is to be good for the planet and good for the people. It's just everything that we do.
• 18:47
  You know, from start to finish is all about that. And, yeah, we've been growing since, you know, 2018 was our first season. We opened up our processing and manufacturing facility, which I'm speaking to you from right now in early 2020, actually right before the COVID shutdown. So it's perfect time to launch a new business. So that was really, you know, kind of our journey.
• 19:10
  last step in becoming fully vertically integrated, meaning that we control everything from when the seed goes into the ground until, you know, that bottle gets to your doorstep or on the store, the shelf of the stores that you purchase it at. Wow. Holy moly. There's a lot here to dig into. Oh my gosh. You've just answered a million questions that I already had. So I love that.
• 19:33
  Also, just quickly, what did, before I go into, before I jump into it, what did your parents say when you kind of pitched them this idea of growing the hemp farm? Yeah, I mean, they were just, they were kind of like all, you know, my husband was really taking the lead on like figuring out how, like.
• 19:51
  how we're actually going to grow it and managing that. And they were just really interested in like, oh, okay, like, what do we have to do? Like, you know, they're, they're kind of, we're reaching like retirement age and, you know, spend more time up there. So they were kind of down for the cause. They didn't question it too much, which is very ironic considering when I was in high school, my mom actually drug tested me for THC because she felt I was smoking too much weed. It was a big problem, a big issue in my house growing up
• 20:20
  My mom, you know, not only are we, you know, growing cannabis on our family farm, but my mom is Tonic's shipping manager and office manager. So every Tonic package that you get is packed up, you know, by her and sent out. Packed by your mom. Oh, that's so cool. I love that so much. Oh my God. That's amazing. Also, I feel like you summed up like how I feel and your products just sound so amazing. I can just see how that can help so many people, you know, like
• 20:48
  me, I'm someone who I struggle with sleep. I struggle with my nervous system. I struggle with anxiety. Like I struggle with all these things. And sometimes you just don't know where to start because you're so like, like you said, also overstimulated with information. Like we get bombarded with like, take this, do this, do this. And it's so hard. So as you were telling me your, your journey there, I was like, wow, like this is amazing. And I can see like the sales pitch is good. I want that. Yeah.
• 21:17
  That's the thing. It's like, you know, I think that that's an important, like, you know, I always want to be careful when I say this, because, you know, you don't want to obviously create a product that's just for you, right? You want it to be something that more people can, you know, really relate to and engage with and feel like they can get value from. But at the end of the day, like, you know, you should be making a product that you would want to be using, right? That you know what needs that you have. So like, if you're addressing, you know,
• 21:46
  your needs and you're effectively addressing your needs. Like there are other people out there that feel like you do. Right. And it's really about finding like, you know, that community who, like, who is that, who are these people that are kind of having these shared experiences and can really relate to what I'm going through and, you know, kind of have these same, whether it's kind of values or, you know, same kind of just ways about, you know, addressing their, your, their health and wellness and speaking to that. Right. And, you know, for me, like,
• 22:16
  you know, it's all about authenticity. And I think that's with any brand, any successful, you know, company, you have to be like authentic as a small business. You know, it's really what, what we have to rely on, right? I don't have a huge marketing budget. I don't have any of that kind of stuff, but I have,
• 22:32
  my own story and, you know, my ability to really convey that and say that like, hey, this helped me like just kind of get through my day to day. And this is why I'm making this product. And, you know, if I can help other people in the same way that, you know, these products helped me, that's really my goal here. And, you know, that's having that as kind of like your guiding force, right? It kind of makes it easier to make important decisions about your business, right? And how to go about scaling and how to about go about,
• 23:00
  you know, growing your business, like what is the next step? Is this selling out, right? Is this aligned with really what I want to do? And, you know, if you're really stay true to, you know, whatever that, that need that you're serving is, whatever that mission that you're trying to carry out is, you really kind of have a very strong, you know,
• 23:17
  why as to, you know, why you're doing it, like everything else can kind of fall in line from there. It's always, it just has to be about like, you know, it gets really easy to lose that in the day to day of running a business and all the stress. And I have to pay my bills. I have to pay my employees. I have to pay my, like, you know what I mean? And it's just like, I don't have time to just sit down and think about my values, but like, no, actually like, you know, if you just kind of allow that noise to die down a little bit, which is,
• 23:43
  again, plug for tonic products. That is always like what I say, like it's not going to solve all your problems, but what it does is helps to create space between you and your thoughts, right? Like when you have that stress and anxiety, that's like, just like, feels like it like has you by the throat, right? You know, and it's just like allowing that grip to be released and loosen. So then you can, you know, put into practice, like whatever kind of self-care, you know,
• 24:09
  breathing or just kind of time for reflection without having that, you know, kind of incessant, like anxiety, you know, just playing over and over in your head. It just really creates space, allows you to get that perspective and then allows you to, you know, kind of just feel more
• 24:27
  able and, you know, prepared to kind of, you know, just, okay, I can do this, like, deep breath, let's go, you know what I mean? So being able to kind of clear out that noise and really focus, again, on what, why you started and why you're doing this and what, you know, that core vision really is, you'll be surprised at how easy it is to make decisions when you're really listening to that voice inside of you and not all the other noise that gets piled up.
• 24:54
  I want to focus a little bit on that first year in business and how you kind of, you know, grew out of that community you had of clients into kind of like the market. And I read that you did like $3,000 sales in that first month and obviously proved that there was a real need for your product outside of your clientele. What was your approach to marketing in those early months, first 12 months? And like, how were you getting the word outside of your community? Yeah, I mean...
• 25:21
  hands down, Instagram was the biggest thing. And like, that was, it was huge. And it's like, I will give the caveat that for especially for CBD brands right now, you're not going to have quite as much, you know, fast and easy success with, you know, Instagram and social media, as I was able to. And that's just because,
• 25:41
  not only has the landscape of social media evolved a lot in the past five years, but it's also CBD, the landscape of the CBD industry has evolved a lot. And now you see it everywhere, right? In 2019, I'm sure that every wellness influencer that you follow, any kind of wellness page was talking about some kind of CBD product at some point, right? But back in 2017, that was
• 26:10
  excited and like interested in trying it like they were, it was new to them. It, they weren't really, you know, um, haven't really tried it a lot before. And if they had, they hadn't tried it with ashwagandha blended in, like, you know, hadn't tried it with these other herbs and adaptogens that I was using. Um, so like, you know, that was really, uh, an attention grabber. And, you know, so I really, I gave away a lot of product.
• 26:34
  And like, it's really came down to trusting the quality and, you know, the effectiveness of the product. And because that was, you know, my feeling was I just need to get it into people's hands. Once people try it and experience it, like they'll love it. And, you know, that'll be it. But the hardest part for any product is just to get it in people's hands, right, to get it out there. So I just was, you know, all day hitting up different accounts and, you know,
• 27:01
  just, you know, talking to different people in, you know, from areas from, you know, fitness and yoga and wellness to, you know, more so like, like therapists and, you know, counselors and things like that. Anybody who kind of really touched like mental and physical well-being spaces, right. And, you know, really focusing on what our demographic really, you know, really is, you know,
• 27:22
  millennials and, you know, more so skewed towards women. You know, our products are definitely not exclusively for women, but, you know, it's definitely who we speak to a lot more with the product. So really just targeting, you know, who's our target demographic? Who do I want to, you know, get to learn about this product? And we just send them care packages, a free product, in exchange for a post. And, you know, they were happy to do it and happy to try it out. And, you
• 27:46
  I was very, you know, very grateful that they, you know, had such amazing experiences with it, that they were excited to share about it. And, you know, I quickly kind of developed a very, a very crude kind of affiliate marketing program, like where it's just like, you know, percentage of sales kind of thing, you know, and just started to build that up to keep those people engaged and keep them kind of, you know, motivated to continue to talk about the products and to, you know, tell their community about it. And it really grew very organically from there. So,
• 28:16
  I definitely had that advantage of, you know, being an early mover. There wasn't a lot of noise that was, you know, that I had to compete against, especially, like I said, because of the fact my products were very different than the other ones that were out there. Right. So now you see CBD blended with ashwagandha and other herbs all the time. But, you know, we were really the first brand to do that commercially. Right.
• 28:40
  Right. Like, you know, cannabis and ashwagandha. I'm not going to take credit for that. Those are both ancient plants that, you know, have been used for centuries and centuries. But in terms of, you know, bringing a commercial product to the market, you know, we were really the first to do it. And there is a lot of obstacles and difficulties with that, too. I'm not going to say that it was easy to.
• 29:00
  you know, kind of be the first like to really be doing that. It was really difficult to find co-packers or manufacturers because either they would, you know, deal with, you know, products and supplements that didn't have CBD, like, you know, ashwagandha blends. Yeah, no problem.
• 29:15
  And then there's other manufacturers that dealt with only CBD, but those CBD manufacturers wouldn't touch other ingredients and, and, uh, you know, vice versa, like definitely more traditional, like, you know, manufacturers out there would not touch CBD. So that's really why I had like kind of no choice, but to,
• 29:32
  kind of keep, you know, from my parents' kitchen, you know, in the first year I was making all the products in my parents' kitchen. So, you know, when we moved up to the farm in, you know, like early 2018, I finally got like my own little office space and was, you know, manufacturing out of there. And, you know, it was just continuing to grow. You know, I needed to, you know, kind of continue to keep these products, just, you know, manufacturing themselves because there was not, you know, the partners out there that were equipped
• 30:00
  to do it. So I really had to learn how to do everything myself, kind of for better or for worse. But in doing that, it would allow me to speak to my product, you know, with more knowledge. And, you know, just a really kind of
• 30:13
  in-depth front and back inside and out knowledge of the product, how it was made and communicating that to the customers, more importantly. So that was something that also really like, you know, helped to tell that story, you know, is kind of, you know, how it's made and what that process is and, you know, what goes into it and why I choose these ingredients and, you know, how, why I choose to do things in a certain way.
• 30:35
  And people really appreciate that transparency. And like, so these little things that I gathered like in this first year, or like the, you know, the kind of tenants of the business that really carried through year over year, even to this day, right? Like what, what do these consumers really care about? Because it's, you know,
• 30:51
  It's such a new product type and you can try to kind of just fit it into other kind of buckets, right? Of like wellness and supplements and everything like that. But there's this whole education component. There's this like mistrust component. There's like this stigma component to it, right? There's all these different layers to really kind of have to sift through when it comes to effectively marketing and speaking to a cannabis related product, even if it's not getting you high, right? There's still a lot to overcome there.
• 31:19
  So it was really like leading with education, leading with transparency and just kind of really, like I said, being authentic with our customers and kind of always having this very kind of, you know, talking to them like they're my friends, right? Like, you know, how you would talk to your friend if, you know, she came up to you and was like, hey, I heard about CBD. Like, you know, do you like, what do you think about it? Right. Like, and you're just like shooting the shit with your, with your, with your friend and like, you know, somebody who cares about you and is going to tell you the truth.
• 31:47
  and isn't going to like, you know, just get all scientific and technical, but it can actually talk to you in a way that's relatable. It's really important. And I think, you know, especially when you're talking about products that are so targeted towards mental health, right? And it's like, people want to feel
• 32:02
  seen in the products that they're consuming and they're engaging with. They want to feel like this is something that they can relate to and that they actually, you know, feel good about supporting as well. And like, that's, you know, something that's really important to me as well as, you know, really like, what do I stand for as a brand and as a company and as a person? And how do I, you know,
• 32:22
  not only communicate that with consumers, but allow them to kind of be part of that. And, you know, we started in early 2019, started Tonic's purpose program. So basically, give back initiative. Each month we choose a different nonprofit partner and we donate a percentage of revenue every month to a different company.
• 32:42
  nonprofit, you know, all different, touching all different areas from, you know, social justice and, you know, reparative justice because of, you know, the fact that, you know, cannabis has such a deep history, you know, kind of rooted in racism and with the war on drugs and everything like that. It really started with like a recognition of that and wanting to give back to those causes, but it's really expanded to, you know,
• 33:05
  you know, women's health, like, you know, October Breast Cancer Awareness Month, we partnered with this group called the Breasties, it's, you know, amazing group of women, and, you know, just really causes that are near and dear to our hearts and communities that need our support. And, you know, we're not saying a percentage of profits, right? That's what a lot of companies say is,
• 33:23
  Like, no, like it's not profit. It's just straight revenue. Like before any profits, no matter what, every month we're donating to these different causes and allowing our customers to contribute to these causes as well and feel like, you know, that they're not only, you know, buying products that make them feel good, but they're, you know, doing good as well.
• 33:43
  that's amazing I love that so important people planet profit above profit over everything else exactly yeah
• 33:54
  You said something earlier that I want to circle back to around, you know, the challenges that you face in this industry when it comes to things like co-packing or whether it comes to payment providers or whatever it might be. And I saw on your Instagram that one of your Instagram accounts actually just got shut down recently. And that's obviously a challenge that people in this space face as a huge issue.
• 34:16
  how do you kind of navigate marketing today? And like, what shifts the needle for you now, knowing that platforms like Facebook and Instagram are kind of like, you know, just wild out there. I'm seeing accounts get shut down every day who, you know, just talk about, you know, touch on the word, anything and you get shut down. Like it's crazy. So how do you navigate the space now? It's really difficult. And I will say that it's like,
• 34:42
  I feel like becoming more and more difficult to find channels that are really, you know, effective, but the staple and definitely kind of the tentpole of our, like, especially like digital marketing efforts is our email list. That's the one place that we can say whatever we want. We don't, we're not, you know, censored, you know, we're speaking directly to people who have chosen to engage with us and, you know, want to know what we have to say. Right. And it's,
• 35:09
  just really like the one kind of direct pathway that we have to consumers that is not kind of, you know, filtered out through algorithms and censorship and all these rules, regulations. And, you know, even if your brand is not kind of subject to those same, you know, kind of obstacles as, you know, something like CBD is that like that owned first party data, like your email list is so important, right? Or your, your text messaging list, like that's,
• 35:39
  uh, SMS, but Norby actually, Norby, we are able to utilize SMS through their platform. So that is huge as well. So collecting those, uh, customer emails and phone numbers and being able to kind of have that direct line to your customers is incredibly important. Like, you know, if we put out, even if it's not even like a discount, it's just like sharing a blog post. It's, you know, we see the sales jump from that email because it's just brings you back on top of mind, right?
• 36:09
  Oh, you know what? I am out of my tonic. I forgot. I keep forgetting to order it. Let me, you know, where do I go now? And so like just these little things just to stay on top of your consumer's mind. Email has definitely been
• 36:19
  you know, the most effective channel for us, but affiliate marketing as well. So like I mentioned earlier, I started, you know, my own little very simple, you know, affiliate program, just kind of a referral based system really. But now we work with like an affiliate marketing agency that has been really instrumental in like, you know, making the affiliate marketing work.
• 36:42
  like actually work at scale and, you know, utilizing publishers and, you know, everything like that. And that's kind of like a, you know, poorly kept secret these days is that everything is pay to play. You know, when you see like these lists, like, you know, top five, you know, best CBD products for stress or, you know, whatever it's, you know, basically the publishers of those sites
• 37:04
  they, you're not necessarily have to pay direct money to, you know, get placed on the list. Sometimes you do, but they want you to have at least, you know, an affiliate, um, like account set up so that that way, if they're posting that, if anybody clicks and purchases, they're going to get a kickback. Right. And, you know, the higher you put that rate for their kickback, the higher you're going to get on that list. Right. It might, sometimes you see the list of like 30 different products on there. And it's just like, you know, if you want to be number one through five, rather than
• 37:34
  25 through 30, like
• 37:36
  make that commission rate, you know, 20% rather than 10, right? And it's like little things like this, but that has been really huge in getting us a lot of, you know, placements and a lot of these, you know, a lot of these different websites and articles, you know, that's been really huge and just kind of getting us on these different platforms, exposing us to new audiences. And what's really great about it is there's not a huge upfront cost because, you know, you're really paying based on performance in a lot of the case, right? So we pay the agency, of course, and
• 38:04
  You know, we pay these platform fees, but at the end of the day, you're really, you know, you're paying based on performance. So it's a much more sustainable way for a small business who doesn't have a lot of, you know, capital to throw at marketing to be able to, you know, effectively go after these opportunities. Can you name drop the agency that you use for anyone listening who's like, damn, I want to get into that?
• 38:27
  Absolutely. I'd be happy to. So it's called Spark, S-P-A-R-K, ROAS, R-O-A-S, Return on Ad Spend, right? So you Google Spark, R-O-A-S. They're great. The woman that I work with, my account manager, we've been working with her for almost two years now is Alex and she's amazing and great customer service. I highly recommend them. Oh, shout out to Alex. Love that. So cool. Yeah. When you think about the lessons you've learned so far in building Tonic,
• 38:57
  Is there anything that you wish you knew before you started? Like any advice that you kind of wish that you got that you could pass on to anyone listening in? Yes, I would say don't try to do it all yourself. So, you know, I got talked about building this vertically integrated business structure where we have the farm, the lab and, you know, the brand. And while that was really built out of necessity because of where things were at at the time, the infrastructure of the industry, like,
• 39:26
  Looking back on it, not that I would do it differently. I'm incredibly grateful for these different businesses that I've built and the different brands that I've been able to serve through these businesses. But it has definitely inhibited Tonic's growth at the end of the day because of the fact that we...
• 39:49
  never raised like a huge amount of money. Right. It was always like a very scrappy kind of operation and, you know, not a huge team and, you know, it was really trying to do it all. And, you know, something is going to, you know, kind of suffer because of that. Right. And, you know, even if everything was kind of like seemingly like, okay, surface level, like it's okay. We're not like dying, but like, we're not actually kind of reaching the levels that we could have if, you know,
• 40:16
  tonic was my only focus, right? So like, you know, if I was able to really just allow, you know, somebody else to focus on the production and to focus on manufacturing and all the, all the, you know, million things that go along with that, you know, I would be able to not only just focus more of my energy on sales and marketing and getting the product out there, but also it's a lot of, you know, money too, right? Like, you know, just even where I'm spending my money, having like, you know, paying payroll for,
• 40:45
  production techs to make the product, you know, rather than, you know, putting that towards, um, you know, a sales team, right. You know, of course I would have to pay a manufacturer to do that, but it's, you know, different because, you know, as anybody who's been running their business knows, it's, you know, all the shit that goes wrong on a day-to-day basis, right? Like that's your mess to clean up. Like, it's like, that's your dollars lost on every mistake. Right. Whereas the manufacturing partner,
• 41:11
  if they mess up, like that's their dollars lost, right? You're still paying the same, that same fee for the most part, right? If it's a good partner. But so like, it was really, and it was really something that it took me a long time to kind of come to terms with. And that's why I'm going to say this with, with all the love and understanding and empathy in my heart for anybody who's like, I can't trust anybody else to do it, but me, there's, you know, nobody else. You know,
• 41:36
  Really, again, go back to what is your vision? What is your mission? And what are you good at? And what is your strength? And that is a really important and honest conversation to have with yourself because that is how you're going to accomplish this mission most effectively, is by allowing people who are good at what they do to do what they do so you can do what you have to do. And that's how you keep this train moving.
• 42:05
  in the right direction and keep moving like, you know, on, on track. Right. So like really looking at what your strengths are, you know, how you can be of most value value to yourself and to your business. And then really looking for the right partners to help you support, to help support you in all these other areas. You know, I think that that's something that we're learning now as we're transitioning into, you know, adult use cannabis in New York, you know, and looking at how we're approaching our business model. And it's like,
• 42:33
  kind of conversation I had to have with myself as we were thinking about scaling the CBD business. And, you know, it's like, oh, OK, how much are we going to need to grow more to be able to accommodate, you know, as we scale and like making these projections? I'm like, it just doesn't really make sense. Like, again, like if my values are sustainability, community, like access and like supporting other people, supporting the planet, doing this in the right way. It's like it's kind of counterintuitive that I'm like,
• 43:00
  kind of like hogging it all up for myself. You know what I mean? Like, no, it's like, it's all mine and I'm going to do it, do it all myself. It's like, you know, if there's now opportunity to work with other craft growers and, you know, cultivators who are, you know, utilizing regenerative practices and growing on smaller plots of land spread out across, you know, a greater space and not,
• 43:22
  you know, overworking the same, same land, you know, and doing these big commercial, industrial kind of grows, but doing it in a way that's, you know, more sustainable and more aligned with what we want as a brand, you know, then we can actually help support these growers, you know, help support a wider range of people, a larger community through our products. So, you know, it was kind of like a revelation that, like I said, that I had kind of in retrospect,
• 43:49
  moving forward as we're, you know, kind of entering this new phase of our business here in New York, taking that to heart and really, you know, looking at, you know, what are the lessons that I've learned, you know, through hemp and, you know, the CBD business and how can I like, you know, course correct going forward. Right. And like really just continue to improve because I think that, you know, this is like, you're starting your first business. This is, you know, my first, my first business that I started. Right. And,
• 44:14
  a lot of, a lot of learning, learning moments. So let's put it that way along the way. Right. And like, it's just, you know, I think a lot of people like, including myself, like I don't, you know, accept failure or, you know, anything like very well. It's something that, you know, I've,
• 44:29
  I have to work on. But it's like, understanding that, you know, you're not going to get it right the first time, but you have to like, have the kind of put your ego to the side a little bit. And like, just really be honest with yourself on how you can improve, right? Not that you have to give up, but like,
• 44:46
  maybe there is a pivot that you need to make, right? Maybe this isn't working, but like, how can I like still fulfill this mission that I have and provide this, this service is like in a way that is going to be more effective, that is going to be, you know, more, a more successful business model. And, you know, it's not all about money, but it's success in terms of how many people you're reaching and how many people you're able to affect. And,
• 45:08
  you know, how you're really, you know, going about that part of your business. So I think really being, you know, kind of honest with yourself in those kind of moments of reflection and not being afraid to like admit, okay, I need to do this differently. Like maybe like I need to kind of let go of this. Maybe it's like a product in your line that's not really performing well. And you're just like, all right, like I love this product. And I know that like I have some people out there that are going to be really upset, but like it's draining a lot of my resources. It's not performing well. I need to just let it go. Right. And just, you know,
• 45:37
  being a kind of less strict with yourself like that's, you know, again, it took me a few years to really get to that point and realize that. That's a good one. Absolutely. Audit yourself, focus, make hard decisions and, you know, keep going with clarity. I love that.
• 46:03
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 46:27
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 46:50
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 47:05
  Hey, it's Dune here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 47:30
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 47:52
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.