Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Saturday Night Live with Costume Designer (Aubrey Plaza as Host), Tom Broecker

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Saturday Night Live with Costume Designer (Aubrey Plaza as Host), Tom Broecker · The Art of Costume Podcast

• 0:12
  Anxiety all must have. I'm guessing like blood pressure
• 0:15
  must be through the roof all the time but.
• 0:17
  I you know it's it's. Like, not me.
• 0:21
  I'm basically done. I know I'm.
• 0:23
  So mellow about all that. Externally I mean my insides
• 0:28
  internally might be something else, but externally I'm
• 0:32
  supposed to maintain a sense of fault.
• 0:43
  Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume Podcast.
• 0:46
  I am your host, Spencer Williams, and thank you so much
• 0:49
  for joining me for another bonus episode.
• 0:53
  Hey costume nerds, good morning. How's it going?
• 0:56
  I'm so excited to be here with all of you to talk about
• 1:00
  Saturday Night Live, one of my favorite shows.
• 1:03
  I watch it all the time every weekend and I have been for as
• 1:07
  long as I can remember. I love the show and I love
• 1:11
  talking about, especially when we're able to have on a very
• 1:14
  special guest costume designer Tom Broker, who I just
• 1:19
  absolutely adore. I think he's one of the best in
• 1:21
  the industry, very kind, hilarious and just perfect for
• 1:25
  the show and just honestly just one of my favorite human beings
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  in general. So very excited for you all to
• 1:31
  hear this conversation in a minute here.
• 1:34
  But first let's get into the episode we're talking about
• 1:38
  specifically and we're talking about season 48, episode 10.
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  And just for a little summary I wrote here live from New York,
• 1:46
  it's Saturday night. Aubrey Plaza hosts the Emmy
• 1:49
  winning late night comedy show Saturday Night Live with musical
• 1:52
  guest Sam Smith. In this episode, head on over to
• 1:56
  the Black Lotus Hotel, meet a lion Congressman slash drag
• 2:00
  queen, see a Miss Universe pageant, travel to the Navi
• 2:04
  world of Pandora and prepare for a special visit from Sharon
• 2:09
  Stone. So as you can see, we are
• 2:11
  packing it in in this episode Diving behind the costumes.
• 2:16
  Saturday Night Live was created by Lorne Michaels and we have
• 2:20
  costume designer Tom Broker. Some of Tom's notable work, I
• 2:24
  mean we could go on and on, but you will recognize some of his
• 2:27
  costume design work in film and TV on 30 Rock, House of Cards
• 2:32
  Bros and right now in theaters. If you go see the Mean Girls
• 2:36
  film, those costumes were also designed by Tom Broker.
• 2:40
  So Tom is killing it, amongst a ton of other things he's doing
• 2:44
  in the live theater realm. So you gotta go check out all of
• 2:47
  his work. I'm very excited for you all to
• 2:50
  hear this conversation. Like I said, Tom's one of my
• 2:53
  favorites and he's just hilarious.
• 2:55
  And in this interview we really are gonna dive into all the
• 2:59
  specifics of the specific episode as Tom was just
• 3:02
  nominated for a Costume Designers Guild Award for Season
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  48 episode 10. So we are going to be talking
• 3:10
  about Avatar and George Santos and the Miss Universe Pageant.
• 3:15
  It's really a great episode. So after this break, get ready
• 3:19
  for Tom Broker. Well friends, I am so excited to
• 3:47
  welcome back to the podcast My Friend Saturday Night Live,
• 3:51
  Costume Designer Tom Broker. Good morning, Tom.
• 3:55
  Good morning. It's really morning for you.
• 3:57
  It's sort of mid morning for me, but yeah.
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  But you're a busy guy, so that's the best way I could catch you
• 4:03
  before you start working. Literally, I was like, Oh my
• 4:07
  God, wait, what time? How How can we make this happen?
• 4:12
  I sacrificed, but I was so excited to talk to you because I
• 4:16
  was doing the math this morning, which was also difficult.
• 4:20
  It appears you've been nominated 10 times for this Costume
• 4:24
  Designer Guild Award and Excellence of Variety Reality
• 4:28
  Competition or Live Television, which you won two of them.
• 4:32
  So that's a pretty, pretty good record there, yeah.
• 4:35
  How do you how does the field be nominated for 10 times?
• 4:38
  Exactly. Well one was for House of Cards,
• 4:41
  so and then one was for Saturday Night Live, so, so yeah.
• 4:46
  So it's it's always it's always an incredible honor and I feel
• 4:53
  like this is more to me. I don't want to say this is more
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  important than other awards or this is this means more than
• 5:00
  other awards. But I find this award means a
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  lot because it comes from costume designers and it's all
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  about costume designers talking about other costume designer and
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  so costume designers, no costume design, so it's and because it's
• 5:21
  it, it's comes from us. It has a specialness, I think,
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  to it, as opposed to look, don't get me wrong, those other awards
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  and all that sort of stuff are amazing.
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  That means too. But, but, but there's something
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  about this being from the people who you who know what you do is
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  really special. Right, being honored by, you
• 5:47
  know, the best of the best in this exactly.
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  Exactly. Your peers always and and the
• 5:51
  peers sort of can understand and sort of know what you do and how
• 5:54
  you do it. So I think it that's why it's
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  sort of, I think always is really special.
• 6:01
  Yeah, well, we are going all the way back for this episode to
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  season 48, which feels like a lifetime ago.
• 6:08
  It. Really does.
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  It's like, it's like you were saying you were doing the math.
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  I was doing the math earlier too, in the elevator.
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  And I was just like, Oh my God, I think it's literally 13 months
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  ago, or at least 12 months ago. Right, So what?
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  I mean, this is kind of a silly question, but what sort of the
• 6:26
  challenges that season 48 present for you?
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  I think there's a big one that's kind of obvious.
• 6:31
  Well, right. I think ultimately the big fear
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  for 48 was that the looming rider strike was going to
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  happen. So we sort of were never sure if
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  we were going to get the tail end of our season in.
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  And I think people started becoming very, very anxious
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  toward the end about what was going to happen and if we could
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  do it and and all that sort of stuff.
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  So I think that in terms of that, that was sort of the big
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  one. You know, we had some new cast
• 6:59
  members, so that's always for that season.
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  And so that's always, I wanna say it's a challenge, but it's
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  also trying to get them, you know, this place is a, you know,
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  runs on a very specific kind of rhythm and you have to jump in
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  pretty fast if you're a performer and figure out the
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  ropes and and how. And it's a lot of it's trial by
• 7:21
  fire. So just sort of like, OK, good
• 7:25
  luck, hope, hope you know how to rate cue cards and know where
• 7:29
  to, you know, get the cues. But you know, like all things,
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  they eventually learned. And then, by the time they
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  learned, the season was over. Yeah, yeah.
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  It was a quick season, but it was a good season to pack lots
• 7:42
  of punches. Yeah, this episode was hosted by
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  Aubrey Plaza, and there was some really, really great skits in
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  this one. But first, this was also the
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  introduction of the George Santos character, which feels,
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  like, so hilarious now because we've gone through this entire
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  arc as a country at this point. Do you remember working with
• 8:01
  Bowen Yang on that initial? I do and and you know, I mean
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  George Santos has a very specific look.
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  So it it it wasn't too hard to kind of push into what that look
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  was. And I think this was also the
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  episode where we was, I think, and I should know this, where he
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  wore the the red sequin dress as the drag.
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  Queen yeah. So we did a cutaway.
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  You know, We did the cutaway to him in that, you know in the
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  beautiful beaded, red beaded dress and then come back to him
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  and and it was, you know, Bowen is just such a great person to
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  work with and he's so intuitive and understands.
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  You know what? And and he it's a great
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  collaboration. And so you know it's part of
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  that character were the glasses. So that was a big thing.
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  And then, you know, the sweater with the jacket and the thing,
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  and then, you know, I mean the layers of, of ridiculousness
• 9:03
  that George Santos puts on. So that was like, you know,
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  really great. And, you know, then to come full
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  circle, I think a couple weeks ago we did his big goodbye,
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  which was sort of wonderful and amazing.
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  And it was so funny with that one.
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  Anyway, like everyone was like he's wearing a Cape.
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  And I was like, George Santos, I guarantee you, is crazy.
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  And he has a crazy dress and he dresses, you know, theatrically.
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  But he would not wear a Cape. But in our version, he did wear
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  a Cape. So we cut.
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  A whole pack, honestly. Exactly.
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  He was in an overcoat which he wore to the to the breast
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  comforts and then we cut the hole back out and put a Cape in
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  the back of. The That's so funny.
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  And I love how Bone Yang just feels like he's just, he'll do
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  anything. We just had Valerie Claritz on
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  the podcast the other day and she said same thing about Dixon
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  musical. He's just willing to go there
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  with anything. So yeah.
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  He's just like if he if he trusts and he like you know
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  which we've never given him any reason not to so but you know he
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  he's willing to sort of do anything.
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  You love that getting into the Aubrey Plaza skits, and one of
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  the first ones was the Miss Universe pageant.
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  If you remember that one, that was lots of fun.
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  Lots of Pageant gowns, are you? Exactly, exactly.
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  That's that's sort of why I chose this episode in
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  particular. I mean, we'll go through and
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  dissect all the others, but but it was sort of that thing where
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  I looked at this episode and you know the category has variety in
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  the title. So this episode in particular
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  was all the sketches had a very specific.
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  Oh, we're giving them variety. Exactly.
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  So it's like this is very variety oriented.
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  So yeah, it's always fun doing pageants, right, because you
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  can, you know you have to depending on this one was a
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  world pageant. So we had to push into some sort
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  of gown which on some level was reflective of the country that
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  they were representing. We also were looking at you know
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  is is I'll say inspired by the rail pageant which was going on
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  and had had happened. And so it's sort of can have a
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  little based on true events aspect to it.
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  And so we sort of pushed into sort of colors and that sort of
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  stuff of the of the gowns. Yeah, I felt like, I mean, it's
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  been a while now, but I felt like it just happens like days
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  before. It seemed like it was pretty
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  quick turn around. Yeah, well, that is one of the
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  great things about working on on the Saturday Night Live is that
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  we do have the ability to change things right before it goes on
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  air. And even while the show is going
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  on, we have the ability to change something as it's going
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  on. So you know it is and can be
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  very of the minute. So for some reason something
• 12:12
  happens during the show where we see something that need to pivot
• 12:15
  somewhere else. We have the ability to do that.
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  We don't have to shoot it and then wait three months for it to
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  be edited and then color corrected and then put on.
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  Anxiety all must have. I'm guessing like blood pressure
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  must be through the roof all the time but.
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  I you know it's, it's, it's. I know I'm.
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  So mellow about all that externally, I mean my insides
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  internally might be something else, but externally I'm
• 12:47
  supposed to maintain a sense of calm.
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  But it is. And I don't want to equate what
• 12:51
  we do to surgery or or any kind of that.
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  But if you notice, like if you ever go to the emergency room,
• 13:01
  like the doctors are pretty mellow because the people around
• 13:04
  them are crazy and all of the anxiety and all of the chaos is
• 13:10
  around the the the medical staff.
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  So the medical staff has to maintain a degree of increasing
• 13:19
  complete calmness and so the doctor.
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  Gets to go home later, so. Exactly.
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  That is true. That is true.
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  So, you know, there's there's a sense of calmness you had to
• 13:30
  bring to the situation. Yeah, got it.
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  Cause the actors are freaking out, so you don't want to freak
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  out on top of the actors. Right, which leads me to another
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  stressful environment, which was of course the Black Lotus Hotel,
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  which was recreation of what we love, the White Lotus.
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  This is a fun one, lots of fun colorful costumes, which is what
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  we love the White Lotus for. So take us back to creating the
• 13:56
  Black Lotus, which is one of my favorite skits in a while.
• 13:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought they did a really that
• 14:01
  the writers on that did a really great sort of revisit and you
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  know shifting the perspective a little bit to make it black
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  oriented as opposed to white oriented.
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  And and we work with the on our team.
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  Part of my team is so we have a live show team and the film unit
• 14:25
  team and so it's a great collaboration between all of us
• 14:30
  because they have the film unit has basically 24 hours to get
• 14:35
  their outfits together. On the live show we have between
• 14:42
  36 and 40 hours, so we have a few more hours to get our to
• 14:46
  get. Things I want to be on your
• 14:48
  team. Exactly.
• 14:52
  Sometimes that extra 12 hours is much needed, but you know, they
• 14:56
  might, they crank the stuff out so so beautifully and and you
• 15:00
  know, White Lotus was so beautifully designed, so it was
• 15:04
  kind of easy parody. Yeah, yeah, those.
• 15:10
  Clothes are so brilliant and and the ability to sort of recognize
• 15:16
  instantly what we were parroting, I think really shouts
• 15:21
  out to to that show and to those designs, you know, to be able
• 15:25
  to. Look at that one.
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  Like, instantly took you there. You knew exactly what we're
• 15:29
  watching as soon as you saw on Chloe.
• 15:31
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 15:32
  Yeah, yeah. Oh man, yeah, it was it, you
• 15:35
  know, and and so it's always fun to do a show like that where you
• 15:38
  see and you can just sort of pick it up a notch, you know,
• 15:42
  you see a show that's so beautifully designed like that
• 15:44
  and you're sort of like, OK, well, this is also Black Lotus.
• 15:47
  So we can, we're going to put another spin on top of that and
• 15:53
  have it be a little more, you know.
• 15:57
  Right. It's it's so good.
• 16:00
  I was laughing so much last night.
• 16:02
  Well and you know and and the host is so brilliant and that
• 16:05
  that like half the people didn't even recognize her and and you
• 16:09
  know her her, right. It's it's just amazing.
• 16:12
  So yeah. It's very transformative, yes.
• 16:16
  Speaking of, I think the most variety had to have come down to
• 16:20
  the Avatar skit, which I'm a big Avatar nerd, so I was I.
• 16:24
  Was dying. That was really dying.
• 16:28
  Me as I'm not. And it was so funny when the
• 16:33
  whole time I was like, Aubrey was just out there, How did she
• 16:36
  get into all this blue paint? And then at the very end, the
• 16:40
  lights kicked on and I was like, whoa, Tom, you have to tell us
• 16:44
  about that skit. So that was an incredible feat
• 16:49
  and that that's the thing. I think not that I'm most proud
• 16:53
  of but but the idea of how that whole thing came together
• 16:56
  because I was like OK, well how how are we going to paint these
• 17:00
  people and get them painted to have that sort of you know and
• 17:05
  as you know because you love Avatar the the, you know they're
• 17:10
  CGI D and so there's a beautiful they have no like human.
• 17:18
  They're very seamless and. Like, correct.
• 17:19
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 17:20
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:21
  And so it it it trying to translate that in 30 seconds for
• 17:26
  them to be able to get paint on and off and then, you know, they
• 17:31
  to get the paint on was one thing and then you would have to
• 17:33
  get the paint off. So we had to figure out first
• 17:35
  and foremost how that was going to happen.
• 17:38
  The other thing which happened and how this sketch came to be,
• 17:42
  not from a writing standpoint but from a technical standpoint,
• 17:45
  was something happened six months before that on the Today
• 17:52
  show, on The Tonight Show. Like someone accidentally had
• 17:56
  flipped a switch in the control room and all of a sudden, and
• 18:00
  they had no idea what they did. Because when we went to talk to
• 18:03
  them about it, they had no idea what had happened.
• 18:05
  All of a sudden a switch was flipped and the people on the
• 18:10
  screen had turned blue, so their skin had turned blue.
• 18:14
  And so we tried to duplicate that technology on this
• 18:21
  particular sketch and it meant that anything that was, so we
• 18:26
  had to reverse engineer everything.
• 18:29
  So all the skin had to be flesh tone.
• 18:34
  But then when it was fed through the machine, the video guys
• 18:39
  could manipulate everything and then make their faces blue.
• 18:43
  So you we sat with the color wheel.
• 18:45
  My assistant actually had literally her job that entire
• 18:50
  week was just walk around with the color wheel and make sure
• 18:53
  everything that we were doing was reverse engineered.
• 18:57
  So if for instance the feathers on that were in the hair had to
• 19:03
  read red, we had to paint them green because everything had the
• 19:08
  opposite. So it was a crazy mind bending
• 19:10
  kind of and that happened with the production design as well.
• 19:13
  So, you know, we were, we had a specific Avatar scene we were
• 19:17
  recreating. And so like all of the costumes
• 19:21
  had to look and all the feathers and all the beads, all the beads
• 19:24
  had to be re, you know, and all the information about Avatar and
• 19:29
  the costumes and all that sort of stuff had just come out like
• 19:32
  the week before or something. So literally we were studying
• 19:35
  all those pictures and sort of looking at, OK, so this
• 19:38
  loincloth has these feathers and these beads.
• 19:42
  There's like 15 colors in that. So you literally had to go
• 19:45
  through and read the yes, it was.
• 19:48
  It literally was a nightmare at night.
• 19:53
  But. Like, please make no more Avatar
• 19:55
  movie. Exactly.
• 19:56
  But the reality is like once you sort of started getting into the
• 20:00
  mindset of it and really do it, and then ultimately when you saw
• 20:05
  how it it actually worked out and you're looking at the sketch
• 20:10
  going, wow, this is actually working and this is amazing the
• 20:14
  way they, the video people really kind of manipulated
• 20:18
  everything. And then?
• 20:20
  I'm so glad that they when the sketch ended and they could pull
• 20:24
  back and you could actually really see for the first time.
• 20:27
  Yeah, that was so. Cool.
• 20:28
  And happened it was. It was sort of mind bending.
• 20:32
  Yeah, I've my mind was blown when the lights kicked on
• 20:35
  because I was like she was just April Ludgate on Weekend Update
• 20:38
  like seconds before so. Exactly.
• 20:40
  Exactly. Yeah, I was.
• 20:42
  Like, maybe it's not live. I was very like my world was
• 20:45
  kind of set upside down. Well, and that's that and that,
• 20:48
  and that's why, you know, and that's another reason I chose
• 20:51
  this episode because it is true. Like that is one thing, You
• 20:56
  know, it's live. So it had to be.
• 20:58
  And we had to organize the show in such a way that she would
• 21:02
  still have time to change and get into the wigs and all of
• 21:04
  that sort of stuff. But there was no way you could
• 21:06
  spend 3 1/2 hours to paint that person.
• 21:09
  Right. Every skit would have to be
• 21:12
  avatar. Correct, correct.
• 21:14
  You know, I mean the most, the most like sort of time a host
• 21:19
  has ever given to change clothes is like 2 1/2 minutes.
• 21:23
  Jeez. So to paint and that's to get in
• 21:27
  and to get out so they can get into somebody and then they
• 21:30
  have, you know, 2 minutes to get out of something.
• 21:33
  This whole skit's kind of exciting because, I mean, you've
• 21:35
  been doing this for a few years now, and it's exciting that you
• 21:38
  get to, like, kind of learn and exactly, exactly.
• 21:42
  This was a huge learning curve and a huge thing to figure out
• 21:47
  how that technology works and to work really closely with the
• 21:51
  video guys to figure out and how to punch in and how what that
• 21:55
  what those lights were going to do in terms of like colorizing
• 21:59
  and changing all that sort of stuff.
• 22:01
  It it, it, I say that, you know, I've been here a long time now
• 22:05
  and and you think that you've learned everything and every
• 22:09
  show something happens where we're learning something new and
• 22:13
  this was a big, big learning curve.
• 22:17
  But write this one down in the diary.
• 22:19
  Exactly, exactly. Yes, yeah.
• 22:21
  Well, for the final skit, I want to talk to you about also had a
• 22:24
  lot to do with color. It was of course the black and
• 22:26
  white film noir skit with Aubrey and Sharon Stone was in this
• 22:31
  one. I mean, they both looked
• 22:34
  amazing. And Sharon had come on to do
• 22:38
  the, the, you know, to play the goddess and the Sam Smith song.
• 22:42
  And so, I mean, come on, you have Sharon Stone come on the
• 22:46
  show. You want her in the sketch and
• 22:48
  you want, want her doing something.
• 22:51
  So, so that was a really great thing.
• 22:53
  You know, it's like I had never met her before.
• 22:56
  So it was just like, Oh my God, this is.
• 23:02
  And you know she's amazing to work with and she knows, you
• 23:05
  know, she knows how to make things work and she knows what
• 23:08
  to make and and so we had about 5 dresses to look at, you know
• 23:13
  try and fit and you know, and she knows how to pose and do
• 23:17
  everything. So she she's a true professional
• 23:23
  so and it you know and also just to get that variety like to go
• 23:27
  from Avatar to to that was, you know a lot.
• 23:32
  Yeah, yeah. And she wasn't blue in this one,
• 23:35
  so. She was not blue neither.
• 23:36
  No one was blue. But that's another one of those
• 23:40
  things. Exactly.
• 23:41
  And but that's also another one of those things.
• 23:43
  You know, I I, I know that I'm, you know, black and white isn't
• 23:47
  always black and white. You have to sometimes, you know,
• 23:50
  when you're watching it, you know sometimes it's a red dress
• 23:53
  as opposed to when you know a black dress on camera because
• 23:56
  red will read differently or or sometimes you know how.
• 23:59
  That's another one of those where you have to work with the
• 24:01
  video and you know, the technology to make sure you're
• 24:04
  getting the colors right, you know, and the textures right.
• 24:08
  So it does read black and white, but and film noir.
• 24:12
  But it may not necessarily. You know, it's translating to
• 24:16
  the to the camera, not to the people in the audience.
• 24:20
  Well, this is really such a great packaged episode.
• 24:24
  There's lots of great ones. I'm so glad we got to talk about
• 24:27
  it. It's hilarious.
• 24:28
  And I think everyone should go back and rewatch it.
• 24:30
  I feel like I was the last one to see it.
• 24:31
  So everyone's like Spencer. We've seen this episode.
• 24:34
  Go back and rewatch it now. Go see.
• 24:36
  I had to do it too. I had to go back and rewatch it
• 24:39
  too, because I was just like, oh right, I forgot how good this
• 24:42
  episode is. This episode not only from like
• 24:46
  like sort of the totality of it, the comedy of it, the design of
• 24:50
  it, like just everything about it and the performances are so
• 24:53
  good. What are those episodes for?
• 24:56
  Sure? Yeah, Yeah.
• 24:57
  Tom, what else do you got going on?
• 24:59
  I feel like you're doing lots of other projects.
• 25:00
  What does the world need to do to go see some of your costumes?
• 25:04
  What does the world need to do so well?
• 25:07
  Like heading to the movies right now?
• 25:08
  They could head to the movies and see Mean Girls the movie
• 25:11
  musical. Yeah, they could.
• 25:13
  Head to Off Broadway and see Off Broadway production of Little
• 25:19
  Shop of Horrors that Evan Rachel Wood is going into their you
• 25:25
  know. Our birthday.
• 25:28
  Is tonight, and you know I'm off after this discussion, I have to
• 25:36
  go to the costume shop at the Metropolitan Opera to talk about
• 25:41
  some costumes that Jane and opera there in September.
• 25:46
  You're the definition of booked and busy, so.
• 25:50
  I like to keep busy. Are you going to little shop
• 25:55
  tonight to see Rachel? I'm going to stop by to make
• 25:58
  sure I I literally a coat arrived at my house yesterday
• 26:02
  that she needs to wear it tonight.
• 26:05
  So nice. I have to drop it off, so yeah.
• 26:09
  But Costume is on your Tom broker.
• 26:11
  Thank you so much for joining the podcast again.
• 26:13
  It's always a joy spending time with you.
• 26:15
  OK, have a good one. The Art of Costume podcast is
• 26:22
  hosted and produced by Elizabeth Joy Glass and Spencer Williams.
• 26:28
  Our audio engineering and editing is done by Dan White.
• 26:32
  Follow us on TikTok at The Art of Costume and Instagram at The
• 26:37
  Art of Costume Pod. If you want to support the show,
• 26:40
  go to theartofcostume.com/podstore.
• 26:45
  For more podcast updates, costume reviews, deep dives and
• 26:50
  interviews, go to theartofcostume.com, A blog
• 26:55
  dedicated to highlighting the best in costume design.