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2. What are you really anchored to? · Anchored At Home

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Speaker 1: The conversations that impact our lives are rooted in vulnerability, truth,
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Speaker 1: and grace.
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Speaker 2: Each week, we'll have real conversations about.
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Speaker 1: Life and all the beautiful, messy moments in between. We
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Speaker 1: hope this is a place where.
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Speaker 2: You can exhale, feel seen, know you're not alone, and
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Speaker 2: leave encouraged, challenged, and equipped. We're Josh and Liz, and
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Speaker 2: welcome to Anchored at Home.
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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Anchored at Home. We're so
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Speaker 1: excited that you are here with us today and that
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Speaker 1: you want to spend some time with us. Today is
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Speaker 1: going to be awesome. We have a really great personal,
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Speaker 1: deep conversation, I guess, to go in right out of
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Speaker 1: the gate. But before we do that, we just want
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Speaker 1: to remind you, we couldn't be doing this without your support.
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Speaker 1: So please go like, share, do all the things that
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Speaker 1: you know to do. um, in order for us to
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Speaker 1: continue these conversations and to get this out there to
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Speaker 1: more people, um, whatever that looks like for you. But
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Speaker 1: we are so honored and grateful that you're here with
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Speaker 1: us today.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Add some comments, add some feedback, let us know.
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
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Speaker 2: If you want to have some specific, um, guests on
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Speaker 2: some topics, some questions that you may have for us,
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Speaker 2: you want us to bring up. Um, like I said,
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Speaker 2: real raw, vulnerable conversations is what we want to have
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Speaker 2: and what we will have.
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Speaker 1: Um, Love it. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So today.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: We're going to talk a little bit about why we
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Speaker 2: named it Anchored at Home. And kind of what the anchor,
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Speaker 2: the meaning of it all. What's behind the name? What's
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Speaker 2: the importance of and the significance of an anchor and
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Speaker 2: being anchored at home?
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like we should be like, time out.
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Speaker 1: We have anchor tattoos in this stage. I just visualize
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Speaker 1: you being like, we don't have any. I was just
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Speaker 1: thinking of all the tattoos you have. We don't have
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Speaker 1: an anchor.
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Speaker 2: I have four tattoos.
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Speaker 1: I know. But they're elaborate.
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Speaker 2: They're very meaningful, except for the really bad one I
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Speaker 2: have on my leg. Oh, yeah.
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Speaker 1: That one is pretty bad. Do you want to share
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Speaker 1: that really quick? What is the one on your leg?
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Speaker 2: Okay. So you'll hear me talk about this. So I
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Speaker 2: grew up a preacher's kid. I had a buddy my
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Speaker 2: freshman year. You know, you go off to freshman year
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Speaker 2: of college and especially if you live a sheltered life,
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Speaker 2: you're like, hey, let's go.
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Speaker 1: Let's get crazy.
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Speaker 2: So one of the crazy things that I guess I'll
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Speaker 2: say that I did my freshman year, a couple months
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Speaker 2: into college, is I had a buddy that was on
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Speaker 2: the soccer team, also a freshman with me. And he
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Speaker 2: was also a preacher's kid. He also had the same
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Speaker 2: name and the same middle name. There's all these cool
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Speaker 2: things that were in common. So we were like, let's
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Speaker 2: get P.K., which stands for preacher's kid, not penalty kick
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Speaker 2: for soccer fans, on our leg. But let's get it in,
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Speaker 2: you know, Chinese symbol. So we go in and, you know,
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Speaker 2: they tell me it says PK. For all I know,
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Speaker 2: it could say, I don't know, snake tamer. Who knows?
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Speaker 2: I don't know what it says. Snake tamer. Or jabroni.
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Speaker 2: It could. That was my first tattoo, so I got it.
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Speaker 2: And then my buddy was like, I don't know, man,
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Speaker 2: I'm scared. You go first. So I go first. And
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Speaker 2: then he didn't get it. What?
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good story. It's a great story.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's my first one. And I think it
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Speaker 2: has a lot of character. I don't want to hide it.
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Speaker 2: Like I said, I normally tell people it means like
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Speaker 2: thug passion.
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Speaker 1: You said that when we first started dating.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, what does that tell you?
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Speaker 1: So it is not an anchor for everyone. You're going
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Speaker 1: to catch on quickly. We kind of go all over
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Speaker 1: the place.
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Speaker 2: So welcome to our life, our minds, and our relationship.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so anchored at home, it's special to us. It
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Speaker 1: actually was something that kind of was dropped in our
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Speaker 1: hearts a few months ago, a while ago.
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Speaker 2: A while ago, but yeah, never really.
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Speaker 1: Kind of took, ooh, root.
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Speaker 2: There it is. Funny. An aha moment, if that's why
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Speaker 2: we want to name it that.
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Speaker 1: Recently, when we actually went on a trip, we went on,
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Speaker 1: we had the privilege to go on this awesome trip
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Speaker 1: for a friend of ours on a catamaran in the BBIs.
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Speaker 1: And we had the best crew, by the way, just
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Speaker 1: shouting them out. But we were pulling up to this
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Speaker 1: one island, which we were super excited to go to.
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Speaker 1: You uh, you know, like he throws the anchor in,
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Speaker 1: we were learning all the things. I asked lots of questions.
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Speaker 1: So I was like, what happens? And he threw the
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Speaker 1: anchor over.
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Speaker 2: It wasn't, you know, why are we still doing this?
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Speaker 2: Why are we 35 minutes later?
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Speaker 1: And he's an amazing captain. Chris, we love you.
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Speaker 2: Turns out he's amazing.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. And, um, but it just was, as we learned
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Speaker 1: the seabed and the anchor wasn't taking root, like it
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Speaker 1: wasn't holding. Um, so he threw it like once, twice,
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Speaker 1: three times, I don't know, maybe the third time. Um,
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Speaker 1: And he was like, well, if it doesn't, you know,
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Speaker 1: dig in to the seabed, like we will just, the
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Speaker 1: boat won't be here when we get back. And so
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Speaker 1: we went through this whole thing and it was kind
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Speaker 1: of like that sat with us for a while. And
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Speaker 1: I remember one night we went to bed and I
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Speaker 1: was like, that's it. Like it's, that's what it is.
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Speaker 1: It's like the anchoring when you're anchoring to something secure.
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Speaker 1: And we talked about different things of our life and
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Speaker 1: how many seasons we were not anchored to things that
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Speaker 1: And it just made us think a lot of like, what,
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Speaker 1: how much does that look like our faith at times too? Of,
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Speaker 1: you know, our anchor and like the Bible talks about,
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Speaker 1: you know, is our identity. We're anchored in Jesus. And,
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Speaker 1: and how many times, like, again, we're both all over
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Speaker 1: the place. So welcome. But we'll both, we talk about
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Speaker 1: a lot where we'll be reading something. I'll be reading
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Speaker 1: my Bible. I'll be, you know, doing a Bible study
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Speaker 1: and I had to read the same thing five times, right?
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Speaker 2: You read it five times, I read it ten times. Right.
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Speaker 1: And then it's like, okay, like I'm going to get
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Speaker 1: focused and I think like I'm controlling it. And yes,
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Speaker 1: like my mind, but it's like, oh, and it's just
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Speaker 1: like skimming, just like the anchor was. Like I felt
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Speaker 1: like God gave me this visual of the anchor just
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Speaker 1: skimming the bottom of the seabed. And that that's like
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Speaker 1: what we can do so often is like skim the
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Speaker 1: surface of like our faith.
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Speaker 2: And not just our faith, like our relationship with our spouse,
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Speaker 2: our relationship with our kids, like our home life and
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Speaker 2: our home team is what we call it. Like, are
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Speaker 2: you anchored? Not just you have some faith that you
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Speaker 2: believe in that you're anchored to, but are you anchored?
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Speaker 2: You know, are you just skimming the surface with your relationship,
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Speaker 2: you know, with your wife? Are you just skimming the
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Speaker 2: surface of your relationship with God?
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Speaker 1: Right. And what God wants for us is to be
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Speaker 1: anchored and have that being like, yes, anchored to, I
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Speaker 1: was like, the word was not coming to my mind.
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Speaker 1: But it's like having that and then there's a deepening
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Speaker 1: that happens, like deeper intimacy, deeper love. growth deeper, right?
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Speaker 1: And that happens in all those areas. Like you said,
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Speaker 1: it starts with our relationship with Jesus, but then it
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Speaker 1: flows out from there to our spouse, our families, the
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Speaker 1: people around us in our work, whatever it is. And
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Speaker 1: so I think I'm going to read some, Josh and
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Speaker 1: I are going to read some just examples. We're really
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Speaker 1: like researching what an anchor is. does, like the, how
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Speaker 1: it was made, like all of, I just like, we became, okay,
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Speaker 1: that's how I am too. I'm just like, I need
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Speaker 1: to know all the things. Yeah. And, and it was
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Speaker 1: really cool, like what we found. And so we're just
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Speaker 1: going to share that because we just felt like an
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Speaker 1: anchor that never digs in isn't an anchor, right? It's
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Speaker 1: just the weight we're carrying and anchors are so heavy.
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Speaker 1: And so you want to go first?
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Speaker 2: Sure. An anchor provides stability when circumstances are changing. We
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Speaker 2: don't anchor because it's life is easy. We anchor because
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Speaker 2: it won't always be. Stability isn't something that you find
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Speaker 2: in the middle of the storm. If you're trying to
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Speaker 2: find in the middle of the storm, good luck. It's
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Speaker 2: something you build before it arrives. Like if you are
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Speaker 2: not anchored in your marriage prior to, I mean, let's say.
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Speaker 2: A trial. A trial.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 2: It's going to be really tough.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: If you don't have those. anchored conversations, the anchor, uh,
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Speaker 2: the support system, the accountability, um, with friends and each other,
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Speaker 2: like those things, those anchors are crucial in order to
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Speaker 2: survive the storm.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Or even let's just say, and use like the boat reference,
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Speaker 2: even being the same space, the same exact spot you
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Speaker 2: are like storm comes through. Are you in that same spot?
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Once the storm has gone through, if you don't have
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Speaker 2: an anchor, um, Well, probably not. Yeah. You're drifting away.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because sometimes it can look like you're in the
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Speaker 1: right spot. We've been there where it looks like you're
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Speaker 1: in the right spot, but you're not anchored. 100%. So
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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah.
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Speaker 2: Or anchored to the wrong things.
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Speaker 1: Right. Okay, number two, an anchor prevents drift when currents
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Speaker 1: try to pull you off course. And here's the thing
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Speaker 1: about drift. It doesn't happen all at once. It's slow.
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Speaker 1: It's quiet. You don't decide to drift. You just stop
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Speaker 1: deciding not to. Hmm. And one day you look up
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Speaker 1: and you're somewhere you never chose to be. We have
9:48
Speaker 1: been there.
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Speaker 2: We have been there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, nowadays it
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Speaker 2: can be as simple as just scrolling. Right.
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Speaker 1: So true.
9:57
Speaker 2: Instagram.
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Speaker 1: You're like, where'd the hour go?
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
10:00
Speaker 1: What?
10:01
Speaker 2: How? Oh my gosh. I went to bed at nine
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Speaker 2: o'clock and now it's 1030. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:07
Speaker 2: And then you can't fall asleep. So. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: That's probably another discussion down the road. But yeah, just
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Speaker 2: having that, that, that, like I'm thinking also like one
10:18
Speaker 2: time we were, we were on that trip. You know,
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Speaker 2: and obviously this is a, it's a, you know, a
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Speaker 2: paddleboard that doesn't have an anchor. And that visualization of,
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Speaker 2: I remember we were probably like, oh, let's go look
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Speaker 2: at that thing. And then we realized the current's going
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Speaker 2: that way as well as the wind. And we were
10:36
Speaker 2: stuck over there. Yeah. And something that like, we were
10:39
Speaker 2: just kind of. relaxing and drifting. And then all of
10:43
Speaker 2: a sudden we were so far away from our boat.
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Speaker 2: It took us like 40 minutes to get back to
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Speaker 2: our boat. You know, it was like, what just happened?
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Speaker 1: Everyone's yelling at us like, what are you doing? There's
10:52
Speaker 1: boats coming.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. You got to get out of the way. We're trying.
10:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: They were giant.
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Speaker 1: We were going like nowhere. Paddling.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. That was great.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So, yeah.
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Speaker 2: Uh, next one was anchor offers the security during storms.
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Speaker 2: You don't drop the anchor. Like we said before, um,
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Speaker 2: after the storm passes or during the storm, it's dropped before.
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Speaker 2: That's why, that's what this podcast is about. Not the
11:17
Speaker 2: crisis management, even though we do deal with that, but
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Speaker 2: the foundation building and having that anchor at the start,
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Speaker 2: at the root.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: You know, before you need it, while you still have
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Speaker 2: calm waters and clear skies, can you drop the anchor,
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Speaker 2: move it around if you need to, to find that
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Speaker 2: thing to be anchored to.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: You know, I think about if I could rewind time
11:41
Speaker 2: and it's one of my favorite things to do is
11:43
Speaker 2: like when we work with couples that or individuals that
11:46
Speaker 2: aren't yet married. Right. And to be able to have
11:50
Speaker 2: those conversations, like if I could rewind time and I
11:53
Speaker 2: wish that someone came and like, you know, put their
11:56
Speaker 2: arm around me and was like, Hey Josh, you want
11:57
Speaker 2: to be a great husband? You want to be a
11:59
Speaker 2: great dad? You want to lead your family? Well, I
12:01
Speaker 2: should probably focus on these things first to make sure
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Speaker 2: that you don't bring them into your, into your marriage.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Because, I mean, everyone comes into your marriage with baggage.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And I think marriage has a funny way of over
12:21
Speaker 2: the time and over the years of like, oh my gosh,
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Speaker 2: I didn't know I had 17 bags. I thought I
12:26
Speaker 2: only had this little backpack.
12:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That was that one amazing guy that we
12:32
Speaker 1: had worked with at one point and he was guy, man, amazing, professional. Sorry, sorry.
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Speaker 2: Good guy.
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Speaker 1: And he told us, he was like, hey, I want
12:43
Speaker 1: you guys to go pack your bags. And we're like,
12:45
Speaker 1: we're not going anywhere. And he was like, no, pack
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Speaker 1: some bags, put them at your front steps, front door.
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Speaker 1: And then I want you to go tell your kids.
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Speaker 1: And our kids were little then. They were like four
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Speaker 1: and six maybe. And he was like, we want you
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Speaker 1: to pick them up, have them pick them up and
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Speaker 1: just like, you know, do a lap around your house.
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Speaker 1: And he's like, that's the baggage that you've brought in,
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Speaker 1: like to your own marriage, like from your past. So
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Speaker 1: if you brought that in, you just handed it down
13:14
Speaker 1: to your kids. And that was like a, not an aha,
13:18
Speaker 1: that was like a slap across the face to both
13:20
Speaker 1: of us. We were like, oh, dang, what?
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Speaker 2: He can't even pick up the one bag. How is
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Speaker 2: he going to pick up?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, they were little. Like one of them
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Speaker 1: was trying to drag a bag like through the house.
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Speaker 2: Take it upstairs, yeah.
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Speaker 1: No, and it's like, it just was shocking. That was just, yeah,
13:36
Speaker 1: a big moment in our, individually and in our marriage
13:40
Speaker 1: that was like, we got to do some work around
13:42
Speaker 1: this stuff.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to do some work. And like for me,
13:46
Speaker 2: when it hit home, you know, of like what I
13:49
Speaker 2: was actually carrying that I didn't, realized it was affecting
13:51
Speaker 2: me was like with, with parenting. Like when I saw,
13:55
Speaker 2: I started to parent or say something to August.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: And which is our older son. And, and I was like,
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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this is, this is not the parent
14:07
Speaker 2: that I want to be like, why am I doing this?
14:09
Speaker 2: Why am I wording it that way? And that was
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Speaker 2: like a moment where I'm like, all right, I got
14:13
Speaker 2: some stuff I needed. I need to figure out, I
14:14
Speaker 2: need to work on some baggage.
14:15
Speaker 1: But yeah. Yeah. That's a side note. Again, we're all
14:19
Speaker 1: over the place. So welcome.
14:20
Speaker 2: Here we go.
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Speaker 1: Okay, the last two, it says, an anchor creates a
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Speaker 1: point of connection for the boat and something stronger beneath
14:28
Speaker 1: the surface. And that's faith. That's marriage. That's family. Not
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Speaker 1: connection to something equal to you, but connection to something
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Speaker 1: beneath you that holds. Something that doesn't move when everything
14:39
Speaker 1: above the surface does. Last one.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I just realized I don't have the last one.
14:50
Speaker 2: Do you have five?
14:52
Speaker 1: Because we don't have the last one. It's fine. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: But in saying that, I think when everything else is moving,
15:00
Speaker 1: like where we're going to try to transition this into
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Speaker 1: is that like our marriage and why we started this
15:08
Speaker 1: and why we called it Anchored at Home has so
15:12
Speaker 1: much to do with us not being anchored to the
15:15
Speaker 1: right things in so many seasons of our life. And
15:19
Speaker 1: that includes before we met. And while we've been together.
15:23
Speaker 1: And so it's just been, and that's what we've seen
15:27
Speaker 1: like in our own lives and with, in our own marriages,
15:30
Speaker 1: just in our family is when we are anchored, right.
15:33
Speaker 1: And this isn't like throwing shade at anyone to shame anyone.
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Speaker 1: Cause I'd be shaming myself.
15:39
Speaker 2: No self shaming here.
15:41
Speaker 1: You know, of just like being able to.
15:45
Speaker 2: Just be aware.
15:46
Speaker 1: Right. Cause like life happens and we're like, there are
15:50
Speaker 1: times when, were batting 100. Is that a thing?
15:55
Speaker 2: Batting 100?
15:56
Speaker 1: Sure.
15:57
Speaker 2: It's not really a good batting average, but when you're
16:00
Speaker 2: batting 100. Clearly, I'm not a baseball fan. It's not
16:03
Speaker 2: the best.
16:03
Speaker 1: I mean, any....
16:06
Speaker 2: By the way, I found.
16:07
Speaker 1: Any other sport, but not that.
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Speaker 2: I found number five.
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Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Yeah.
16:12
Speaker 2: Number five was an anchor allows rest.
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Speaker 1: That was the whole.
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Speaker 2: Where you can be still and rest. There we go.
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Speaker 1: I needed that.
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Speaker 2: And the bow doesn't have to keep fighting the current.
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Speaker 2: When you're anchored in your faith and your identity and
16:23
Speaker 2: who you are in your home, in your marriage, you
16:26
Speaker 2: stop white knuckling it and you can be more present. Right. So.
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Speaker 1: The rest part is huge because it's the, and we'll
16:36
Speaker 1: get into this, like I said, but we're both athletes.
16:40
Speaker 1: I'm going to still call us athletes, even though people
16:42
Speaker 1: are like, you're former athletes.
16:44
Speaker 2: Playing that over 40 league and crushing it.
16:47
Speaker 1: We did play in the co-ed league and I had
16:49
Speaker 1: hip surgery.
16:50
Speaker 2: And so did I. So we don't no longer play
16:52
Speaker 2: in the co-ed league, but it's fine.
16:54
Speaker 1: But we'll come watch you play if you live near us.
16:57
Speaker 1: But the rest part is like why I brought up
17:01
Speaker 1: being athletes and being like, we are performance driven. And
17:07
Speaker 1: some people have that in a spouse or like one
17:10
Speaker 1: of them, you have two in ours. Plus we are
17:12
Speaker 1: both there's so many things we have in common in
17:16
Speaker 1: personality-wise that can be really great. I'm not going to
17:21
Speaker 1: say batting 100. A thousand, I don't know. But the
17:28
Speaker 1: rest part, like when we're sitting and living from a
17:32
Speaker 1: place of rest, and that's just in our own, I mean, souls,
17:37
Speaker 1: like in our heart, right? And not just in our mind.
17:40
Speaker 1: And it's taken us so many years to get to
17:42
Speaker 1: this place of, and ease and as individuals now imagine
17:48
Speaker 1: is into being those, you know, crazy high, high functioning still,
17:52
Speaker 1: but like performance driven and then never living from a
17:56
Speaker 1: place of rest. Cause we didn't even know what it
17:58
Speaker 1: felt like. We didn't know what it was like not resting,
18:02
Speaker 1: like taking a nap or like getting my nails done rest,
18:06
Speaker 1: like true spiritual, emotional, mental rest.
18:10
Speaker 2: Um, and so the place of rest is is a
18:13
Speaker 2: safe place so it's like you think about you know
18:17
Speaker 2: having the boat anchored when you're going to bed yeah
18:21
Speaker 2: great boat yep you're at rest you're at peace because
18:24
Speaker 2: you know we're not gonna be floating away we're not
18:27
Speaker 2: gonna be a different country in the different country in
18:29
Speaker 2: the morning we're not.
18:29
Speaker 1: Gonna find the pirates i did think about that one.
18:31
Speaker 2: Time i honestly thought that i asked are there pirates.
18:35
Speaker 1: That come here i was hoping we were gonna see like.
18:37
Speaker 2: I was right. I mean, the squad that we had
18:40
Speaker 2: on that boat, though, I would have taken our chances.
18:43
Speaker 1: Same. Yeah.
18:45
Speaker 2: And I was the least of them. But the squad
18:48
Speaker 2: that we had was, I felt very safe. Yeah.
18:52
Speaker 1: Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So going back to like our story.
18:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:58
Speaker 1: Of like where that came from of not being anchored. Right.
19:01
Speaker 1: Of like what that looks looked like for us. Do
19:04
Speaker 1: you want to go? I can go first. He can
19:05
Speaker 1: go first. Yeah.
19:06
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, we're like being anchored to performance.
19:09
Speaker 2: I mean, growing up a preacher's kid, I don't think, no,
19:12
Speaker 2: I think no matter what denomination, what household you go in, um,
19:17
Speaker 2: as a preacher kids, you always have a lot of
19:19
Speaker 2: eyes on you. Right. Um, so you're always, uh, trying
19:25
Speaker 2: to make sure that you, I wasn't trying to make
19:29
Speaker 2: sure that because I was just, as a kid, I
19:31
Speaker 2: was always just like, I'm me. And as an adult,
19:33
Speaker 2: I'm me. This is who you get. It's unfiltered.
19:35
Speaker 1: Right.
19:35
Speaker 2: Whatever. But I always felt like there was almost like a,
19:38
Speaker 2: not a microscope, but there's a lot of eyes on me. So.
19:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. Expectations.
19:42
Speaker 2: Expectations. Yeah.
19:43
Speaker 1: Even unsaid on whatever.
19:44
Speaker 2: 100%. Expectations of like, I should act this way. I
19:47
Speaker 2: should do this. I shouldn't be goofing off in church.
19:50
Speaker 2: when I'm 46 years old right now and I still
19:52
Speaker 2: can't sit still. So imagine me at 12. Yeah. I
19:58
Speaker 2: think that's our younger son. I love him, Braxton. But
20:03
Speaker 2: I think that like you get anchored to like the
20:07
Speaker 2: importance of performing. And I was fortunate enough, um, to
20:12
Speaker 2: get gift from God to be pretty good at sports, uh,
20:16
Speaker 2: no matter what the sport was. So like I found
20:18
Speaker 2: my identity in being successful. And at the younger age,
20:24
Speaker 2: it wasn't like business successful. It was, I can be
20:26
Speaker 2: successful at these sports. And that's how, you know, I,
20:29
Speaker 2: that was my, my anchor. So like, I remember even
20:32
Speaker 2: having injuries where I couldn't play and I was just
20:34
Speaker 2: like gutted, devastated. Um, and felt like, you know, I wasn't,
20:39
Speaker 2: not worthy of living, but like, just felt like I
20:42
Speaker 2: wasn't good enough, you know, because I didn't do that.
20:44
Speaker 2: Like I, and I think about, I don't know why
20:46
Speaker 2: we're talking about baseball because I only played baseball until
20:48
Speaker 2: I was 12, but like the perfection part of like,
20:51
Speaker 2: this is how insanely I like obsessed I was with
20:55
Speaker 2: being perfect and like performing was, you know, we all
21:00
Speaker 2: know baseball went out. We don't all know, but in
21:04
Speaker 2: baseball you have four balls and three strikes, right? And
21:07
Speaker 2: I remember when I pitched, you know, because it's a
21:10
Speaker 2: game of chess. But when I was younger, I didn't
21:13
Speaker 2: understand that. I would get so mad. And I'm talking
21:18
Speaker 2: so mad at myself if I threw a ball, a ball,
21:22
Speaker 2: one ball. In my mind, I'm like, oh, every pitch
21:26
Speaker 2: I pitch, you know, needs to be a strike. And then,
21:29
Speaker 2: God forbid, I walk somebody. I was a mental midget
21:33
Speaker 2: on the, um, on the mound. So, I mean, pitching
21:36
Speaker 2: wasn't my thing, but I mean that those type of
21:39
Speaker 2: things are like tying my shoelaces and my shoelace, the,
21:42
Speaker 2: the bowl, my shoelace is not matching in the leftover,
21:45
Speaker 2: not matching, untie it and redo it again. So now
21:48
Speaker 2: I don't tie my shoes.
21:49
Speaker 1: No, your mom said he used to cut them off. Like,
21:51
Speaker 1: and so he would, you would have no end up
21:52
Speaker 1: having like little to no.
21:54
Speaker 2: Well, they matched.
21:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:55
Speaker 2: So it made sense in my mind.
21:57
Speaker 1: That's all that matters.
21:58
Speaker 2: Um, But just that, and then like, then trying to bring,
22:01
Speaker 2: you think about that fast forward now, and then trying
22:03
Speaker 2: to bring that type of anchor of perfection and performing
22:09
Speaker 2: and success as an adulthood and into our marriage. It's like, okay,
22:12
Speaker 2: so now my mind goes to work, being successful at work.
22:16
Speaker 2: And when you're anchored to those things, how can you
22:20
Speaker 2: possibly be present? You can't because that's what you're anchored to.
22:24
Speaker 2: That's what you're focused on. So when that's not it
22:27
Speaker 2: when that when that's not going on right you were
22:29
Speaker 2: there but you were not there you were not present
22:32
Speaker 2: and that was the earliest you know part of our
22:35
Speaker 2: marriage i mean years of our marriage were and even
22:37
Speaker 2: as a dad in unfortunately like yeah i was there
22:41
Speaker 2: and it wasn't because i was necessarily on my phone
22:44
Speaker 2: you're physically there yeah i was physically there yeah but
22:46
Speaker 2: mentally i was in la la land.
22:48
Speaker 1: Yeah you were disassociated you were just yeah yeah you
22:51
Speaker 1: weren't present you weren't connected yeah There was no like,
22:55
Speaker 1: and that's the same for me. It's like that mind, right?
22:58
Speaker 1: And like heart connection hadn't happened for both of us,
23:03
Speaker 1: you know?
23:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. What about you? Is there something that you were
23:07
Speaker 2: anchored to that you feel like?
23:09
Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. All the wrong things. Where do we start?
23:15
Speaker 1: You know, and I say this to say, like, we
23:18
Speaker 1: both have talked about like sharing things. there's like that
23:21
Speaker 1: fear of oversharing and the vulnerability, but there isn't anything
23:25
Speaker 1: kind of off the table. You know, and so, yeah,
23:30
Speaker 1: I think I grew up, you know, in Connecticut, Catholic.
23:35
Speaker 1: And why I say that first is that's like, kind
23:39
Speaker 1: of was my identity of like our family, you know,
23:43
Speaker 1: and I have politicians in my family, which so why
23:47
Speaker 1: I say that as well, it's a different level. There's
23:50
Speaker 1: an expectation, like you said, of kind of even unspoken,
23:55
Speaker 1: but just like, you know, how we act, what we do,
23:58
Speaker 1: how we're seen, eyes on you. And so I think
24:03
Speaker 1: that from a young age, I definitely learned performance.
24:08
Speaker 2: Quickly.
24:09
Speaker 1: It was definitely praised. And, you know, I grew up
24:12
Speaker 1: in a town with I can literally say like 40
24:15
Speaker 1: something family members.
24:16
Speaker 2: True story. Yeah. I met them all at once. You did.
24:20
Speaker 1: One party.
24:20
Speaker 2: At your dad's 50th birthday party. 60th.
24:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
24:23
Speaker 2: 60th.
24:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
24:25
Speaker 2: That was fun. That was like a throw in. Talk
24:27
Speaker 2: about throwing me into the fire. I crushed it though.
24:30
Speaker 2: You did.
24:31
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. You did.
24:33
Speaker 2: With most of them.
24:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. But it was, I mean, and it was great.
24:37
Speaker 1: Like I loved my, I loved my childhood. I loved
24:40
Speaker 1: growing up with, so many family members around, like if
24:44
Speaker 1: there was never, like, I think of our kids talk
24:46
Speaker 1: about sometimes now, like, oh, there's no one around or whatever.
24:48
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh my gosh, I had like, if
24:50
Speaker 1: it wasn't this aunt and uncle and this cousin coming over,
24:52
Speaker 1: like there were always people at, you know, at our
24:56
Speaker 1: house and, or we were there was, it wasn't just holidays.
24:59
Speaker 1: Like we lived in the same town. So it was,
25:02
Speaker 1: and I think at that time, you know, we're the
25:04
Speaker 1: older ones of grandkids, but there were at least 12
25:08
Speaker 1: of us by that or 10 of us by that time,
25:10
Speaker 1: you know, and, So it was great. I definitely, as
25:14
Speaker 1: the oldest granddaughter, quickly caught on to like, oh, you're
25:18
Speaker 1: the leader of the pack and this is how you're
25:20
Speaker 1: going to, kind of how you're going to act, kind
25:23
Speaker 1: of how you're going to be. So the performative thing,
25:25
Speaker 1: I also was great at every sport, not softball, clearly
25:29
Speaker 1: no baseball in my life, pretty much every other one.
25:34
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that became, it kind of became like
25:38
Speaker 1: my identity for sure of like, I can power through
25:43
Speaker 1: this stuff and I can get accolades and praise and
25:46
Speaker 1: all of that because I'm great at this area. And
25:50
Speaker 1: school was always more difficult when I was younger. So
25:53
Speaker 1: I went that way. But again, as I got older,
25:58
Speaker 1: it was like searching for all the things in the
26:02
Speaker 1: wrong areas. So like relationships with guys, getting introduced to
26:10
Speaker 1: you know, substances and doing drugs and finding, I mean,
26:14
Speaker 1: anything like people talk and we work with people, you know,
26:17
Speaker 1: and have been trained in addiction, but it's not, people
26:21
Speaker 1: think like, oh, there's a, it's, you're an addict and
26:24
Speaker 1: we don't label people, but it's like, there's a numbing
26:26
Speaker 1: that's happening, right? That, cause you're just chasing. And that's
26:30
Speaker 1: where I talk about the lack of rest. So I'm
26:33
Speaker 1: going to breathe. And the point of being able to
26:40
Speaker 1: live this life, it wasn't sustainable. And from the outside,
26:46
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, great athlete. I mean, we both went
26:49
Speaker 1: to college and played sports in college. We both were
26:53
Speaker 1: successful in college and out of college and jobs. But
26:58
Speaker 1: there is just a racing and chasing that was constantly
27:02
Speaker 1: there and looking for approval in all the wrong areas.
27:07
Speaker 1: from all the wrong people. And then it leads us
27:10
Speaker 1: to like, even when we met, and I know we
27:14
Speaker 1: said like a snippet of how we met, but we
27:17
Speaker 1: were both coaching, you know, and I had grew up
27:22
Speaker 1: Catholic and knew God and knew all of, you know,
27:25
Speaker 1: believed in God. New religion. Religion. And I knew religion.
27:28
Speaker 1: I didn't, I had never had, I don't even think
27:31
Speaker 1: I ever said like the name Jesus?
27:34
Speaker 2: No, I remember when we were dating, you were talking
27:37
Speaker 2: about like praying.
27:39
Speaker 1: Oh, right.
27:39
Speaker 2: Right?
27:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:40
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, the first time, and anyone that's
27:43
Speaker 2: listening that's Catholic, it's an amazing religion and to each
27:47
Speaker 2: its own. We hope we reach everyone, anyone.
27:51
Speaker 1: Right.
27:51
Speaker 2: But I remember the first time, it was kind of
27:56
Speaker 2: cool because I struggled to sit still, but the up
27:58
Speaker 2: and down, what, what are we getting up again? What
28:00
Speaker 2: are they saying? What are we saying? Do I need to,
28:02
Speaker 2: I need to, is there something I should be reading?
28:05
Speaker 2: But then I remember like in our, we were dating
28:07
Speaker 2: at the time and you know, we were like, yeah,
28:09
Speaker 2: I just don't really know like how to pray. And
28:12
Speaker 2: we can go into that detail. But I was like,
28:13
Speaker 2: we just pray like you're, talking to a friend because
28:15
Speaker 2: that's all he is right a friend that sticks closer
28:17
Speaker 2: than a brother like right you know i was like.
28:19
Speaker 1: Huh so where's the script like give me give me
28:21
Speaker 1: the paper because that's like how i pray.
28:24
Speaker 2: You know yeah and um so sorry no you.
28:27
Speaker 1: Know that's such a great yeah but you were so
28:30
Speaker 1: great during all of you mean you still are because
28:32
Speaker 1: it's just like who you are and um being able
28:37
Speaker 1: to let me be me and be like, I don't know.
28:40
Speaker 1: I remember being like, I don't know. I mean, I've
28:42
Speaker 1: read my Bible for years. Cause you know, you did
28:44
Speaker 1: as you do, but like, I don't even know how
28:47
Speaker 1: to do like, where do I start? What do I do?
28:49
Speaker 1: You know? And, um, and so once, you know, I,
28:55
Speaker 1: you know, met Jesus and became, it changed my whole life,
29:01
Speaker 1: you know? And I, I remember like that moment, I mean,
29:07
Speaker 1: And I sit here and there is such gratitude again
29:16
Speaker 1: for like, I wouldn't be here without that. Like we
29:22
Speaker 1: wouldn't be here without that.
29:25
Speaker 2: Um, we're crying. Yup. What we do.
29:28
Speaker 1: It's fine. But, um, you know, as much as I
29:33
Speaker 1: look at like the hard times and like, we'll get there. like,
29:39
Speaker 1: God knew what he was doing.
29:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:41
Speaker 1: And I look back to like there was a time
29:43
Speaker 1: in my life and before I met Josh and when
29:46
Speaker 1: I say men, like I was engaged twice before that
29:49
Speaker 1: you and I got married. And I remember.
29:52
Speaker 2: None of them were anywhere near as cool as me.
29:54
Speaker 2: But yes, that was just a side note that needed
29:57
Speaker 2: to be thrown in there. um she really nailed it
30:00
Speaker 2: skipping those two good guys not on.
30:04
Speaker 1: My level thank you for making me laugh you're really
30:06
Speaker 1: good at it um but it was just i remember
30:11
Speaker 1: being in the scenario and i say that to say
30:13
Speaker 1: like i was such a people pleaser i was so
30:17
Speaker 1: codependent i was so um oblivious like i was a
30:22
Speaker 1: rescuer even when we met it was like who can
30:24
Speaker 1: i rescue and then i was like rescue.
30:26
Speaker 2: I'm She did rescue me though. Facts.
30:30
Speaker 1: And, but looking back, you know, and I just, what
30:35
Speaker 1: makes me, I know so emotional and I pray that
30:38
Speaker 1: I always get emotional when I like talk about this
30:42
Speaker 1: because I remember the night and I remember going, God,
30:49
Speaker 1: are you real? Like if you're real, there's more for me. Hmm.
30:54
Speaker 1: than what I have. And they're great guys. This has
30:57
Speaker 1: nothing to do with like them, or I just, I
31:00
Speaker 1: had this vision in my heart and I had this picture.
31:04
Speaker 1: I don't have this like crazy, funny, like literally Josh,
31:11
Speaker 1: like if, you know, and, um, not the picture of him,
31:14
Speaker 1: but just like this man. And, uh, it, it, it's
31:19
Speaker 1: only God that like, I had this and I look
31:21
Speaker 1: back and go, oh, wow, you were there. Before I
31:24
Speaker 1: even knew, like, I knew you were there. Before I
31:27
Speaker 1: even had, like, accepted you in my heart, before I had,
31:31
Speaker 1: you know, had any sort of relationship, like, he was there.
31:35
Speaker 1: And I say that to say, like, it's the most, like,
31:42
Speaker 1: the most seen moment in my life, right? And, like,
31:45
Speaker 1: we all were, and at that point, I was running
31:46
Speaker 1: away from everything and chasing all the things. And, like,
31:51
Speaker 1: I could never, it reminds me of, like, the Samaritan woman, like...
31:54
Speaker 1: You know, and hiding. Like I was the one going
31:57
Speaker 1: to the wall during the day. Like I was the
31:59
Speaker 1: one that was like, oh my gosh, please don't see
32:01
Speaker 1: me because I am finding, looking for contentment in these
32:06
Speaker 1: relationships and all of the wrong things. And then God
32:10
Speaker 1: was like, but I've always been, I've been here the
32:12
Speaker 1: whole time. Yeah. And I just was waiting for you
32:15
Speaker 1: to turn to me. And that like word in the
32:17
Speaker 1: Bible has always been so much for me. Like when
32:19
Speaker 1: Moses turns to the bush because he could have just
32:23
Speaker 1: kept walking. Right. But like the turn, like was I
32:27
Speaker 1: stopping the posture to like turn? And I think this
32:32
Speaker 1: just went on a totally different tangent.
32:35
Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast where we have no idea where
32:38
Speaker 2: it's going to go. Hopefully you like that.
32:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. And can follow. I don't know.
32:43
Speaker 2: Stay with us.
32:44
Speaker 1: Maybe not. Let us know.
32:45
Speaker 2: We'll bring it back. We'll bring it back.
32:47
Speaker 1: Circling back. And I also want to say like I–
32:53
Speaker 1: feel like I didn't cry for years, right? Like earlier
32:56
Speaker 1: on in our marriage. And it was, so now it
33:00
Speaker 1: can happen three times a day, you know, and it
33:05
Speaker 1: just shows like the growth and healing and I'm grateful
33:08
Speaker 1: for it. So I'm never going to apologize for my tears.
33:11
Speaker 1: I'm never going to apologize.
33:12
Speaker 2: I will apologize. I am an ugly crier at times.
33:15
Speaker 2: So if that does happen, when that does happen, just...
33:18
Speaker 2: Know that I told you so. Yeah. It is what
33:22
Speaker 2: it is. And I'm okay with it.
33:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, so I think in that moment, just being like, God,
33:28
Speaker 1: are you... If you're real, like, show me that you're real. Like,
33:33
Speaker 1: if this... And I remember just those things right after that.
33:37
Speaker 1: And like, you and I hadn't even met yet. And
33:40
Speaker 1: really for a year and a half later. And it
33:43
Speaker 1: was just like, looking back, I just... I wish I
33:48
Speaker 1: could rewind it and like go, oh God, why didn't,
33:52
Speaker 1: I remember first going like, why didn't this happen when
33:55
Speaker 1: I was in elementary school? Or like, I would have
33:57
Speaker 1: hurt less people.
33:58
Speaker 2: I would have- Maybe some less baggage.
34:01
Speaker 1: Less baggage, for sure. Like there would have been so
34:04
Speaker 1: many things that would have been, I would have hurt
34:05
Speaker 1: myself less, And just valued myself more. But God's timing
34:13
Speaker 1: is perfect. And I look at it as like when
34:15
Speaker 1: I then met you and going back to that when
34:19
Speaker 1: after we had met, you know, coaching soccer together and
34:22
Speaker 1: we went to a soccer party. But Josh had invited
34:27
Speaker 1: me to a church. Should I tell the story?
34:29
Speaker 2: Because I feel like I may have won you over
34:31
Speaker 2: this night too. So we go to a coach's Christmas party,
34:35
Speaker 2: like we mentioned in our previous episode. episode, kind of
34:39
Speaker 2: how we met on the soccer field. We go to
34:41
Speaker 2: the coach's Christmas party.
34:42
Speaker 1: Right.
34:43
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, there's Liz, the beautiful, tall blonde.
34:47
Speaker 2: And so I walk over to her and I was like, hey,
34:49
Speaker 2: how you doing? And then I said, hey, I want
34:52
Speaker 2: you to know whatever you want tonight, it's on me.
34:57
Speaker 2: And she looked at me with a spark and was like,
34:58
Speaker 2: you know, it's an open bar, right? And I'm like, yeah,
35:01
Speaker 2: but I'll go get it for you. Whatever you want,
35:02
Speaker 2: I'll get it. It's on me. Yeah. Smooth. So smooth.
35:06
Speaker 2: And I'm pretty sure that was when she was like,
35:09
Speaker 2: I love that man. That was the hook. Yeah, that
35:10
Speaker 2: was that.
35:11
Speaker 1: I was like, right then I'm going to marry him, right? Yeah.
35:13
Speaker 2: Got you. No, but it is cool how God brings like,
35:17
Speaker 2: I don't know where you're going with this.
35:19
Speaker 1: Oh, at night. When you invited me to go to church.
35:22
Speaker 1: It was a young adult service. Yeah.
35:24
Speaker 2: Well, at first I said, hey, you want to hang
35:25
Speaker 2: out with me on Wednesday night?
35:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
35:26
Speaker 2: And you were like, sure. And I was like, well,
35:29
Speaker 2: let's meet me here.
35:30
Speaker 1: Right. And at this point, like, right? Like I'm, I
35:34
Speaker 1: know something's changed in my life and I know something's different,
35:38
Speaker 1: but it is a process and a journey. And so
35:41
Speaker 1: in that beginning, I was like, these people are fake.
35:44
Speaker 1: I'm not going there. This isn't real.
35:47
Speaker 2: This is a cult.
35:48
Speaker 1: Like what is wrong with the, but like my heart
35:50
Speaker 1: kept being pulled, but I was like kind of running
35:53
Speaker 1: the other way at the same time. Like, and then
35:56
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that night of the young adult service.
36:01
Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, like, I had been going,
36:04
Speaker 1: which is only God how this happens, to this church.
36:08
Speaker 1: A friend of mine who I had actually coached in
36:10
Speaker 1: college had started going to this church. She had also
36:13
Speaker 1: been brought up Catholic. And she was like, hey, I
36:16
Speaker 1: want to check out this church with me. And I'm like, what? Like, okay,
36:19
Speaker 1: let's go. And I love her. So Sarah Butts Savage,
36:23
Speaker 1: I love you. And she was just like, hey, let's,
36:28
Speaker 1: I'm going to start crying again. And she was like,
36:31
Speaker 1: Let's go. And so we had been going for like
36:33
Speaker 1: a month before. And, you know, I just was like,
36:35
Speaker 1: this is a rock band. You know, if any other denomination,
36:39
Speaker 1: you're like, they're hymns, right? And people had leather tattoos.
36:44
Speaker 1: Like there's an actual band, drums.
36:48
Speaker 2: I always needed a rock band when I came to worship.
36:51
Speaker 2: Like I remember going to services where there was hymns.
36:54
Speaker 2: And I was the kid that was like beating on
36:56
Speaker 2: the pew.
36:56
Speaker 1: You still are.
36:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
36:58
Speaker 1: You do need like a mini drum set.
37:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every song.
37:01
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry for every worship leader.
37:03
Speaker 2: Every song, no matter what the genre is, you can
37:06
Speaker 2: always use a little bit more of it. Yeah. Just
37:09
Speaker 2: a little remix.
37:10
Speaker 1: Right.
37:10
Speaker 2: Anyway, sorry.
37:11
Speaker 1: Continue. I will let you be you. Thank you.
37:14
Speaker 2: Let me live.
37:16
Speaker 1: What's that movie?
37:17
Speaker 2: I don't know.
37:18
Speaker 1: It's my life. Let me just free... Oh, gosh. I'm
37:21
Speaker 1: not going to. I know what movie it is. Anyway,
37:24
Speaker 1: side note. The... yeah, I think that night and I
37:29
Speaker 1: remember watching you, I didn't know what it was happening. And,
37:34
Speaker 1: but watching a man with closed eyes and like surrendering
37:39
Speaker 1: his arms and a surrendered heart was the first time
37:42
Speaker 1: I'd ever seen a man surrender anything. Right. Like I,
37:46
Speaker 1: every man in my family is military. Um, and I
37:50
Speaker 1: say that and like, yes. And, um, And so, and
37:56
Speaker 1: just of a different generation and a different, you know,
37:59
Speaker 1: of not seeing that before and seeing like being a
38:03
Speaker 1: part of something bigger than yourself and just like a surrender.
38:06
Speaker 1: And you would come out of like serving in the kids. Like,
38:10
Speaker 1: and I was like, who is this guy? Like, and
38:12
Speaker 1: also what's wrong with him? Like, and that's where I
38:14
Speaker 1: was at. That like critical spirit of like something's wrong
38:17
Speaker 1: with him, you know? And yeah, he's so happy. But
38:20
Speaker 1: like these people are weird. And like, why do I
38:22
Speaker 1: like them though? And you know? And, um, and so
38:27
Speaker 1: fast forwarding to like, um, after that and dating and
38:32
Speaker 1: getting married and, um, you know, having a family, it's
38:36
Speaker 1: like what we talked about of, um, like we were
38:40
Speaker 1: just living in survival, both of us not knowing. Um,
38:46
Speaker 1: and that performance driven approval now, like what you said before,
38:51
Speaker 1: it's like, take all those bags and then throw them
38:53
Speaker 1: on each other. And then add kids to the mix, right?
38:57
Speaker 1: And then add like, you know, wrestling. At this point,
39:01
Speaker 1: I'm like, I love Jesus. I want everything. Tell me
39:04
Speaker 1: all the things. And you're like, bye. Yeah.
39:07
Speaker 2: I mean, I had, like I said, growing up as
39:08
Speaker 2: a pastor kid, been in it for a while, you know,
39:12
Speaker 2: quick recap of like my life. And then from, you know,
39:16
Speaker 2: once I went to college, probably started my senior year
39:18
Speaker 2: of high school. But as I went to college, I
39:20
Speaker 2: was literally like the opposite of anything else. Church, Jesus.
39:24
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm good. I don't need that. I'm
39:27
Speaker 2: going to live my life. I'm going to do me.
39:28
Speaker 2: I'm an adult now. even though I brought my laundry
39:31
Speaker 2: home from my mom to do every once in a while.
39:34
Speaker 2: But like, man, I'm going to do my own thing.
39:37
Speaker 2: But like.
39:38
Speaker 1: But give me food and do my life.
39:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I just, you know, when you live, when
39:42
Speaker 2: you grow up in a church, like you see, you
39:45
Speaker 2: don't see just the polished sundae.
39:47
Speaker 1: Right behind the curtain.
39:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. You see behind the curtain, you see the real
39:50
Speaker 2: stuff that can turn you off from it. And, you know, I,
39:55
Speaker 2: so I did, you know, I would say my whole collegiate,
39:59
Speaker 2: you know, life, like the opposite of living. Right. And
40:02
Speaker 2: the cool thing about, I'll say the, the blessing of
40:05
Speaker 2: being brought up, you know, in a Christian home and
40:09
Speaker 2: knowing God. And even though if I'm honest, like it
40:13
Speaker 2: was probably my parents' faith and I was like tagging
40:15
Speaker 2: along to it versus my own. But when you're brought
40:17
Speaker 2: up in it, no matter how far you get away
40:19
Speaker 2: from it, no matter what you're dealing with, however bad
40:23
Speaker 2: it can get or how far away you can get
40:25
Speaker 2: from it, there's always this tug.
40:27
Speaker 1: And your parents praying constantly. Oh, 100%.
40:29
Speaker 2: My mom praying, sending me texts every day. Love you,
40:33
Speaker 2: praying for you, sending me scriptures. Yeah, it means a lot.
40:37
Speaker 2: And I would not be where I am without that
40:41
Speaker 2: stage of my life and going through that. So bringing
40:43
Speaker 2: that full circle about what you were saying is like,
40:46
Speaker 2: I went through a stage where, you know, seeing the good,
40:48
Speaker 2: the bad, the ugly. So I was part of and
40:51
Speaker 2: served in this, this church before I met Liz and
40:54
Speaker 2: had seen some great things and seen some things that
40:57
Speaker 2: weren't so great. So it was, I was very like, yeah, no,
41:01
Speaker 2: like I loved God. I'll say like, I love God,
41:05
Speaker 2: but I felt like people got in the way. And I,
41:07
Speaker 2: and I, at that time my life would get, I,
41:10
Speaker 2: it was, I got really, you're hardened. I was hard. Yeah.
41:14
Speaker 2: Like when we started dating, softest can be like, and that's, I,
41:18
Speaker 2: I pray every day that my posture stays soft, you know,
41:21
Speaker 2: a tough cream puff, like soft on the inside, hard
41:23
Speaker 2: on the outside.
41:24
Speaker 1: Great.
41:24
Speaker 2: Like, that's what I always want to be. But like,
41:27
Speaker 2: I had definitely hardened. And I remember like, yeah, you
41:29
Speaker 2: were like, but this is this. And then like, it
41:32
Speaker 2: was an awakening. Yeah. You were just really just found Jesus.
41:37
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, he's cool. Well, he's not that cool. Like,
41:39
Speaker 2: you know, I was like trying to like almost, and it's,
41:42
Speaker 2: I think it's just, I've, bringing it full circle is like,
41:46
Speaker 2: I think it's awesome how God brings, brought us together.
41:51
Speaker 2: We're like, I'm like, wow. And I do that. And
41:53
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, but like, look at, this is amazing. Like,
41:56
Speaker 2: look how great God is. And then, and then like,
42:02
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be who I am, the Christian, the man
42:05
Speaker 2: that I am today without you in this relationship. I'm
42:09
Speaker 2: not going to cry. Ugly crier. But it's just like,
42:13
Speaker 2: I don't know. God is just, awesome how he intertwined
42:17
Speaker 2: us somehow, some way. Yeah.
42:20
Speaker 1: And even in the times like when we were married
42:23
Speaker 1: for a few years, we both had revelations, I will say,
42:28
Speaker 1: about our past that were similar. And we both dealt
42:32
Speaker 1: with abuse in our past. And I remember one day
42:37
Speaker 1: being like, God, why would you put us together? Like,
42:40
Speaker 1: this is like a bomb. We have like addictions.
42:45
Speaker 2: You have like- The two things you don't mix together
42:49
Speaker 2: inside of us. It's like, yeah, you don't want.
42:51
Speaker 1: To mix these two. Right, exactly. At least like one
42:54
Speaker 1: of us, right? And then the other one. And so
42:56
Speaker 1: I think, you know, and I worked a lot through,
43:00
Speaker 1: worked through mine a lot. And I think why I'm
43:04
Speaker 1: saying that is that was- part of your hardening was
43:10
Speaker 1: unresolved trauma first, but not even knowing that, right? So
43:14
Speaker 1: some people will be like, well, how do people not know?
43:16
Speaker 1: Or not say, people just don't talk about abuse. It's like,
43:20
Speaker 1: that's not how the brain works. That's not how the
43:22
Speaker 1: body works. And it's like that sometimes it takes, and
43:28
Speaker 1: what we believe is that God always heals in His
43:31
Speaker 1: perfect timing, and it happens in layers just like an onion.
43:34
Speaker 1: And it's like, but he never gives us more than
43:37
Speaker 1: we can handle. And so at the times we, it
43:40
Speaker 1: came up for each of us, which was separate, like we,
43:44
Speaker 1: I couldn't have handled it earlier.
43:45
Speaker 2: Like I don't, neither we wouldn't have.
43:48
Speaker 1: We're not equipped.
43:49
Speaker 2: We even talked about like, like what would happen if
43:51
Speaker 2: we met earlier? Oh my gosh. We would not be married.
43:54
Speaker 1: Right, right. It's by the grace of God we are
43:57
Speaker 1: still today. Yes, 100%. It's like, and so I think
44:01
Speaker 1: it's insane of God going, oh, like, he never makes
44:06
Speaker 1: mistakes and he's like always on time. And so to
44:12
Speaker 1: even have had like me work through a lot of
44:14
Speaker 1: it before, like then I could fully be present in
44:17
Speaker 1: a way to support you as a safe space versus
44:20
Speaker 1: I'm like off my rocker in fight or flight still.
44:25
Speaker 1: where anything you're saying is triggering me right like and
44:29
Speaker 1: it's and so it it's like um the to say
44:34
Speaker 1: that it's like yes it was hardening for you uh
44:37
Speaker 1: a bit from church but also go back it's like
44:41
Speaker 1: that unresolved trauma that was that god was bringing to
44:44
Speaker 1: the surface in you that was um almost the the
44:49
Speaker 1: hardening and like the anger and the different things that
44:52
Speaker 1: come out towards that which the deep rooted emotions that
44:56
Speaker 1: were hurt. Right. And so you just didn't know what
44:59
Speaker 1: to do or where to go or like how to
45:01
Speaker 1: handle it.
45:01
Speaker 2: What's wrong. I'm angry. Why are you angry? No idea.
45:03
Speaker 2: I'm just angry.
45:04
Speaker 1: Right.
45:05
Speaker 2: Right. Eventually learn how to.
45:07
Speaker 1: Right. And so fast forward, it's like God bringing us
45:11
Speaker 1: together and like, going back to what we talked about
45:14
Speaker 1: in the beginning of like why it's anchored at home
45:16
Speaker 1: is because as you can see through this conversation, I
45:20
Speaker 1: could probably, if I were both very visual, if I
45:22
Speaker 1: had a whiteboard behind me, I'd have like 10 different
45:25
Speaker 1: anchors for Josh and probably 50 for me that are like,
45:29
Speaker 1: number one, God's not one of them. And, um, and
45:34
Speaker 1: I'm saying like before we even met and you've got
45:37
Speaker 1: all these things happening and then, um, you know, we
45:41
Speaker 1: meet and maybe we erased a few. Right. Um, but
45:45
Speaker 1: we got married where I probably still had 30 up
45:48
Speaker 1: there and a couple and then added and then probably added.
45:51
Speaker 1: And so it's like.
45:53
Speaker 2: So the goal, you know, of this is to be anchored.
45:56
Speaker 2: And we believe like that one of the main things
45:59
Speaker 2: that you should be anchored to as a couple, as a,
46:01
Speaker 2: as a, in a marriage, in a family, as an
46:04
Speaker 2: individual is Jesus.
46:05
Speaker 1: Right.
46:06
Speaker 2: Um, but in from there, I think point number five
46:09
Speaker 2: was we're anchored. you know, it keeps you safe. Well,
46:13
Speaker 2: you also anchor where it's safe.
46:15
Speaker 1: Right. Right.
46:16
Speaker 2: You don't just randomly drop an anchor where it's not safe.
46:19
Speaker 2: And you know, like half your boat off on a cliff,
46:21
Speaker 2: half not. So your, your spouse, that needs to be,
46:27
Speaker 2: it should be your safe, safe space.
46:29
Speaker 1: Right.
46:29
Speaker 2: And in order for it to be safe, you gotta
46:32
Speaker 2: be real. You have to, sorry, I hit the microphone.
46:36
Speaker 2: You have to be vulnerable. You have to work through
46:39
Speaker 2: your stuff and talk about the stuff. You don't want
46:41
Speaker 2: to have hidden things from your past. Like this is
46:44
Speaker 2: your spouse. This is where you need to be the
46:48
Speaker 2: most truthful. And I think that's where you need to
46:53
Speaker 2: be anchored.
46:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it goes back to like
46:57
Speaker 1: what we were just talking about of like our lives
47:00
Speaker 1: and years of our marriage looks different because there were
47:03
Speaker 1: moments a lot of hidden things and it was us
47:07
Speaker 1: living out of that survival space and not being able
47:09
Speaker 1: to have real conversations, me still, you know, over-functioning, like
47:15
Speaker 1: meeting needs, you still like living in that space where
47:18
Speaker 1: you're present, but like, you don't even know how to
47:20
Speaker 1: be present, you know, more than physically at times. And,
47:26
Speaker 1: and so I think it's like, it goes back to,
47:29
Speaker 1: you know, this is more coming, but of, you know,
47:33
Speaker 1: of kind of like giving you guys like some practicals,
47:36
Speaker 1: like we're big on that. And, um, I think there's
47:41
Speaker 1: just an area, um, if there's an area, like if you're,
47:45
Speaker 1: you know, we wrote down some, but, um, I'll say
47:50
Speaker 1: that's where the anchor, the anchor finds ground, um, not
47:53
Speaker 1: in the performance, but in the truth. And that's something
47:57
Speaker 1: you and I've talked about a lot is like the
47:59
Speaker 1: invitation isn't to have it all figured out.
48:01
Speaker 2: Right?
48:01
Speaker 1: And like, that's where we, when we get it wrong
48:04
Speaker 1: is like when we've put on there, like our, our
48:06
Speaker 1: outfits and our masks and all of our things. And
48:09
Speaker 1: it's like, um, but the invitation like from us and
48:13
Speaker 1: from God is to stop hiding. And we're speaking from
48:17
Speaker 1: a place of, of living that out and like being yes,
48:22
Speaker 1: on the other side in a lot of ways, but
48:24
Speaker 1: still like day to day for the rest of our
48:26
Speaker 1: lives and for the rest of our marriage together. Um,
48:30
Speaker 1: that it looks like a surrender every day for both
48:33
Speaker 1: of us in different ways of the things that have
48:35
Speaker 1: been our medicators, our numbing agents, you know, what we've
48:41
Speaker 1: had used as protectors.
48:43
Speaker 2: So good. The truth.
48:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think it's just to bring what's in
48:49
Speaker 1: the dark into light. And like, that's what Jesus wants
48:52
Speaker 1: from us.
48:53
Speaker 2: And so what's the, what's the corny saying? God can't
48:56
Speaker 2: heal what you won't reveal.
48:58
Speaker 1: There's something, what you don't feel, what you don't, that's
49:01
Speaker 1: a good one.
49:01
Speaker 2: But it's true. Like you have to be, if there's
49:04
Speaker 2: anyone in your life where you can be real and
49:08
Speaker 2: vulnerable and raw with, it should be your spouse. Yeah.
49:12
Speaker 1: So here's our challenges and practicals. I mean, we love challenges.
49:17
Speaker 1: I can rename them, but like we love them we
49:20
Speaker 1: have such a hard time side note teaching our boys
49:22
Speaker 1: we're like we love when people tell us what we're
49:24
Speaker 1: doing wrong like tell me all the times and they're
49:27
Speaker 1: like why would you like that that's like Or this
49:30
Speaker 1: is like, that just feels mean from someone. I'm like, yeah.
49:33
Speaker 1: Because then I can be like, oh, I wasn't aware
49:36
Speaker 1: of that area. I can do better. Tell me how
49:39
Speaker 1: I made you feel. Again, please tell me how I
49:42
Speaker 1: made you feel. But the first one is for those
49:46
Speaker 1: who are single or dating. Because everyone listening to this,
49:48
Speaker 1: we are fully aware you're not married or not dating
49:53
Speaker 1: or whatever.
49:53
Speaker 2: But we hope.
49:55
Speaker 1: But everybody knows someone who is, right? Yeah. to ask
50:00
Speaker 1: yourself honestly this week, what am I carrying that I
50:02
Speaker 1: haven't looked at yet? Because what this comes down to
50:05
Speaker 1: in relationships is like, we could have just, when our
50:09
Speaker 1: marriage was in a crisis, jumped on the bandwagon to
50:12
Speaker 1: help our marriage, but we wouldn't be where we are today.
50:15
Speaker 1: We did that a little and then we separated and
50:18
Speaker 1: worked on individually. Um, so not to fix it before
50:21
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship, just to name it, bring it
50:24
Speaker 1: into the light because what stays unnamed tends to run
50:28
Speaker 1: the show.
50:28
Speaker 2: Hmm. I feel like this should rhyme somewhere. When it
50:31
Speaker 2: stays unnamed, then you don't claim.
50:34
Speaker 1: You're going to come up with a song for it?
50:35
Speaker 2: No, that's corny. I don't know. Go ahead, continue.
50:37
Speaker 1: You'll come up with a song. And I think the
50:40
Speaker 1: biggest thing is like what we always say is Jesus
50:42
Speaker 1: already sees it. And like I had talked about before
50:45
Speaker 1: when I was like, God, if you're real, this has
50:49
Speaker 1: to be. Like God saw me. God had always seen me, right?
50:53
Speaker 1: Like my whole life. And he's just waiting for us
50:55
Speaker 1: to bring whatever it is to him. And then for
50:58
Speaker 1: those of you that are married, like, sit with this
51:00
Speaker 1: question as individuals first, like, just between you and God,
51:04
Speaker 1: you know, like, and, you know, you don't need to
51:06
Speaker 1: get someone else's opinion. You don't need to get, like,
51:09
Speaker 1: read the self-help book, like, go to the source, go
51:12
Speaker 1: to him, and he's going to reveal to you. And
51:15
Speaker 1: what part of me did I bring into this marriage
51:17
Speaker 1: that my spouse has had to navigate? We all have them.
51:21
Speaker 1: And have I ever actually thanked them for staying through it? Yeah.
51:26
Speaker 1: let it surface.
51:28
Speaker 2: Thank you.
51:31
Speaker 1: Thank you. Bring it to Jesus before you bring it
51:34
Speaker 1: to your spouse. He is the light that makes the
51:37
Speaker 1: hidden things safe to see. He's your first safe place. Right. And, um,
51:43
Speaker 1: and I think it's like what we've talked about a lot.
51:45
Speaker 1: Once you understand who you are and like your identity,
51:48
Speaker 1: like we've talked about in this multiple identities we've had, um,
51:52
Speaker 1: and why, I mean, we've only just touched the surface. Um,
51:55
Speaker 1: but it's like, once we know like who's we are
52:00
Speaker 1: and where our identity is, like our story, our wounds, um,
52:04
Speaker 1: you know, all those things like they matter. Right. But
52:08
Speaker 1: it's our worth like in Jesus. And, um, anyway, so.
52:13
Speaker 2: No, that's good. I think it's a good place to stop.
52:15
Speaker 1: Great.
52:16
Speaker 2: Again, thank you so much, uh, for joining us today.
52:19
Speaker 2: We hope you got something, uh, out of it. Uh,
52:21
Speaker 2: if you did like us, uh, put a review, share it, subscribe. Um,
52:27
Speaker 2: it all goes and plays a huge part of, uh,
52:30
Speaker 2: getting other people to have these real raw conversations. So
52:32
Speaker 2: thanks again for joining us and we can't wait to
52:35
Speaker 2: see you next time. Knowles is out. What's our thing?
52:39
Speaker 1: I don't know. Bye.
52:41
Speaker 2: Love you guys.
52:43
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending time with us. If today's conversation
52:46
Speaker 1: encouraged you, we'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review,
52:49
Speaker 1: and it can help more families find conversations like these.
52:52
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52:55
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