Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 3/5/26: Newsom Calls Israel Apartheid, Saagar Humiliated On War, Lindsey Graham Holy War

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3/5/26: Newsom Calls Israel Apartheid, Saagar Humiliated On War, Lindsey Graham Holy War · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
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  Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
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  Speaker 1: dot com. Okay, let's get to the Democrats, all right.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: So you've got the elected Democrats in the Senate who
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: are trying to figure out where to be. They oppose
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the warpowers or solution except for Fetterman, and they some
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: of them are open to funding the war for some reason.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Then you have the twenty twenty eight contenders and Greasy
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Gavin in particular, who has really been kind of a
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: mess on the question of Israel and Palestine. And you'll
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: recall when he got asked about APAC funding. He did
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: that whole that's very interesting. That's interesting, that's very interesting
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: that you're aked in this question. Well, he had an
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: interesting response here with the podse of Bros. And now
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: seems to be realizing that his previous positioning on Israel
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: of just lockstep support is going to be anathema to
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a democratic base now that is fully disgusted with the
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: genocide in Gaza, fully disgusted with our complicity, and really
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: looking for politicians to be very clear on what they
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: think about this whole situation. So take a listen to
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: what Gavin Newsom now has to say about the state
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: of Israel.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: And a lot of Democrats have looked at the net
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: and Yahoo regime and felt like, you know what, we
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: don't like the trajectory he's on. It's time to rethink
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: the US relationship with Israel, especially military support, where.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: He's taking that easy right now, let's talk about that.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: But the issue of BB's interesting because he's got his
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: own domestic issues. He's trying to stay out of jail,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: he's got an election coming up, he's potentially on the ropes.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: He's got folks the hard line that want to annex
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: the West or West Bank. I mean Freeman and others
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: are talking about it appropriately sort of an apartheid state.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: They couldn't even I mean, we're talking about regime change
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: for two years. They haven't even able to solve the
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: Hamas question in Israel. So this is I mean, you know,
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: I want to be careful here, but you know, in
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: so many ways that influence in the context of the
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: conversation where Trump ultimately landed on this is pretty damned
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: self evident. And so Rubio may have been saying something
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: else in the context of what he ultimately said in
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: terms of being sort of pulled into some of these things,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: but I will say this didn't surprise me in this context.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Do you think looking down the road that the United
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: States would consider maybe, you know, rethinking our military support
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: for Israel.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: It breaks my heart because the current leadership in Israel
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: is walking us down that path where I don't think
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: you have a choice, but that consideration. I mean to say,
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: this is an America's interest at a time when affordabilities
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: at crisis levels, where you ha an administration you literally
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: got elected saying this is exactly the opposite of what
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: they would ever consider doing. The fact that that we
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: are in this now regional war, all these proxies, the
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: fact that we you know, and all the grift and
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: the corruption. It's also marks a huge part of this
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: and that's a real conversation. We need to have this
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: board a peace and the piece that the Witcoff family's getting,
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: and the peace that Kushner is getting and the peace
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: that Trump.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Junior is getting.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: So two very noteworthy things there. Him calling Israel an
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: apartheid state, or at least saying that it's appropriate to
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: call an apartheid state is number one. And number two
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: floating the idea of like, yeah, we may need to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: condition military aid.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Of course you listen to this statement, it's still mealy
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: mouthed and still oh it's all Nott Yahoo's fault. When
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: you look at the polling and like the public, if
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: anything is even further to the right, then they're all behind,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: as you know, and the faction that's running the government
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: is in step with most of.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: The public, et cetera.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: So he takes the liberal position there of like, oh,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: it's just this government that's the problem. But for Gavin
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Newsom to say those two things five years ago, I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: was absolutely it will never happen, and it just shows
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: you how much the country has moved at specifically how
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: much the base has moved, and how important this is
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: to people. He no longer thinks he can get away
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: with it, and we've been seeing him in real time
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: trying to land in a certain spot, and we continue
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to see him trying to figure out where to land
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: because now we have his aids sort of walking all
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: of this back.
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: Zegil.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Our friends at Delani highlighted these comments. Let's put this
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: up on the screen. As to clarify Newsom's comments, is
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: He Garden, a spokesman for mister Newsom, said, the government
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: governor quote believes in Israel's right to exist and it's
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: right to defend itself period. He added, the government governor
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: is calling out a difficult truth, blaming mister Trump and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: net Yahoo for taking Israel down a course that threatens
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: the safety of Israel, a democracy in America's closest Middle
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: East ally, as well as Israelis and American Jews. So
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: the concern here is being framed in terms of, oh,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: my goodness, what they're doing is actually very risky for
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Israel itself, and you know, reiterating his commitment that Israel
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: has right to defend itself and right to exist.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: Et cetera, et cetera.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm clearly he's still trying to figure this
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: one out side.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: It's a little mealy mouthed, etc. But I mean, if
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: you look at the core of it, look maybe just me,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: the result is the only thing that matters. It's not
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: just about the rhetoric which he's opening the Overton window,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: which says it's appropriate, you can call it apartheid, and
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: two military aid is really the only thing that matters,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: because you could see a future centrist democrat, let's say,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: like some centri stem gets elected, They're going to say,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I'm doing what's best for Israel. Israel's out of control.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to restrain them. I'm going to force them
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: to look out for their own people and not allow
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: them to drag us or themselves into some major war,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to go into enable their behavior. That's
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: actually the way that the Bush administration and others would
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: talk to them whenever they would get upset and some
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: squabble about the West Bank. So I could easily see
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: them reverting to a more realist, slash like normal relationship
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: with Israel, saying Israel has a right to exist as
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: like the easiest box check in the world. And we
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: talked about this, it's like there's no right or whatever.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: It's like they exist, Okay, deal with it. So it's like,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you know, getting into oh, right to exist is it's
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: like a pedantic, ridiculous conversation the Zionists want to trap
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: you into. It's like, that's not the way that you
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: want to talk about it. The way that you should
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: talk about it is Okay, it exists. Now what how
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: do we deal with that reality? So I could very
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: easily see him calibrating to something like that, but nonetheless,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the most important thing is shattering. I would say it
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: is very similar to what happened to the Republican primary
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. Prior to twenty sixteen, nobody could say
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: that the Iraq War was a disaster. You couldn't say it.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: There was nobody who was willing to say. Trump came in,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: he was like, no, it's a disaster, and that opened
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the floodgates for all of these new politicians and others
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to say what everybody privately thought but which the donor
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: class didn't want you to say. And the Bush mafia
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: they could say no, actually, it was a total disaster.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, all these guys were
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: defending it. So you can think of Zoron Mamdani and
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: a few of these other guys as the vanguard who
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: were willing to just say the quiet part out loud,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: achieve extraordinary political success and opened the door. In addition
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: to global events, so that John Favreaus of the world
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: poseve Americas and others. It's a permission structure for everybody
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: for Gavin Newsom to say it in polite company without
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: seeing them hinge and that they're not going to face
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: a political price at least, but they will face a
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: donor price and they're going to have to grapple with That's.
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: Well, you know what's interesting about that.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I was saying about that because this week Ryan and
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Emily covered you had this primary Democratic primary between Valerie
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Fushi and Nida Alum and Fushi last this was a
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: rematch between these two. Previously, Fushi had been major APAC recipient,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Lockstep Israel supporter. She calculated that this was going to
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: be a problem for her in the primary because she
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: knew Nida was there. It almost beat her the last
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: time around, and.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: So what did she do? She changed her position.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: She decided she was a little critical of Israel. She
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: signed onto the Block the Bombs Act, and she said
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: she wasn't going to take any a PAC funding. Now
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: they managed to funnel a PAC aligned money into her
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: race via a Hakeem Jeffries connected super pack. So she
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: still did benefit from that money, but it was enough
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that she was able to hold on. And I think
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: if she doesn't make those two moves, there's no way
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: because it ended up being a close race. It's actually
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: going to recount. But you know, she's up by about
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: one thousand votes, very close race.
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: If she hadn't.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Shifted her position like that, I think there's no way
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: that she manages to hold on. But the other thing
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: that's interesting about that Sager is even though she backed
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the Block the Bombs Act, even though she said, hey,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: no APAC funding, even though she came out and was
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: somewhat critical of Israel and opened up the possibility of
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: conditioning aid et cetera, APAX still funneled her money.
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Previously, their line has been you you even hint, we
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: even get a whiff of you may say anything critical
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: about Israel. We are not only going to not support you,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: we're going to spend against you. We're going to do
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: everything we can to defeat. Now they seem to have
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: realized that is no longer a tenable position within the
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Democratic Party, and so that actually that creates more operating
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: space for a Gavin Newsom. Yeah, I mean, this man
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: is just a cynical weather van, right, Like that's how
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: you should look at hey, his finger in the wind.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: There's no principle here. It's just him trying to read
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the tea leaves and being a relatively skilled operator relatively
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: of trying to figure out where he needs to be
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: politically balancing the concerns of the base versus the donor class.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And so I think that's part of what's going on
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: here too. Is Apak has had to back down and
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: the Israel lobby more broadly has had to back down
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: from this absoluteistposition because they recognize they have lost the
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: ability to enforce to hold that line with the Democratic Party.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So I think that is partly what's going on here
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: as well, especially with regard to to Gavin Newsom. But
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: the other problem here, let's put D five up on
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: the screen. So this representative Landsman. You know, honestly, he
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: hadn't really come across my radar before. Suddenly this guy
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: has emerged as like, you know, he's joining in with
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Moskowitz and with Gotttheimer on this alternative warpowers the RESIL
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: meant to basically undercut, you know, the actual war powers
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: resolution that Rocanna and Thomas Massey have offered. And so
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: he decided for some reason to do this interview with
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Isaac Chottner, and it did not go very well for him.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: So Lansman says, let me be clear, I've never trusted
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Trump on this meaning war, or on the economy, or
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: on keeping us safe in general. And Chatner says, but
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: you're trusting him on this though, right, And Lansman says, no, Chatner,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: you aren't. I'm trusting the military and our generals. I'm
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: trusting what I understand to be the operation and the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: people leading it. That is the generals and our military
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: and our allies. By the way, the generals and the
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: military didn't want to do this. By the way, Chattner,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: you're trusting the people leading the operation who don't include
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: the President.
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't trust that guy.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the commander in chief, right, sure, yeah, but
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I can't trust him, and he's proven that over the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: past couple of days being all over the place, unlike
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: everybody else involved in this. So you can see here
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: with him another problem for Democrats who want to, you know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: at least tacitly support this war, vote for the funding,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: or vote against the War Powers Resolution or whatever. It's
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: basically you know, because hey, look, Trump is the commander
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: in chief, so de facto, if you are going along
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: with any aspect of this, you are trusting him. You
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: are throwing in with Trump and saying, yes, I trust
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: that he's going to execute this in a way that's
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: going to be responsible and reasonable and with like appropriate
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: goals in mind. Blah blah blah. That is what you're
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: signing up for. And that is going to be another
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: massive issue for any Democratic politician who goes along with
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: any aspect of this that I do not think that they.
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: Fully thought through.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: But Isaac Shottner, as he does, you know, really sort
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: of brings in.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I don't even know why people agreed. I would never
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: even agree to do any interview with him about anything,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: considering what considering how he's behaved. But like these people
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: all their level of hubris and being out of touch
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: demonstrates their ideological commitment. I think to this project, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's what we should underscore to everybody, is
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the level of what the bipartisan elite structure looks like
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: in Washington. And even with Gavin Newsom, I mean, as
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you said, he doesn't believe anything, literally nothing. Yeah, in
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the beginning he was pro Israel with Ben Shapiro. Don't
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: we have a clip? Actually, yeah we do.
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: We've got D three guys.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: So this was Newso this is not in the beginning,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: this was just a few weeks ago. Newsome with Shapiro
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and Shapiro obviously is very ideological and very forceful, and
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Newsome just sort of like you know, capitulates to his
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: view specifically on whether or not this is genocide.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: This is D three.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Let's play that this conversation.
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: Some drags, some run with you know, flags waving into
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: the conversation of genocide.
• 12:37
  Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, I mean, look at.
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: Israel did not commit a genocide in Gaza. There's no
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: standard by which is Reel committed a genocide in Gaza.
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: Just then a factual level, illegal and factual level, Yes, yeah,
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: what is your opinion of this.
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: My opinion is I understand the tendency for people to
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: make that to assert that why on the basis of
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: the images and the proportionality genocide?
• 13:05
  Speaker 8: No.
• 13:05
  Speaker 7: No, And by the way, I agree with you, and international.
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: Doesn't mean that if you kill my child and I
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: then kill seven criminals, that I've been disproportionate.
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the But
• 13:18
  Speaker 7: I understand that tendency on the basis of trying to
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: reconcile the proportionate nature of how the war was ultimately
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: conduct to him.
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: Question, why do you why do you feel the need
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: to create a permission structure for that sort of stuff?
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, meaning it's not true? Why not you say
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: it's not true?
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Look, I don't know the definition or I don't
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: know the legal threshold. That's not my opinion, So I
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: don't I don't share the opinion this relates to genocide not.
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: I do not agree with that.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: So like they's got a dog walk, it's embarrassing. I mean,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: this is not going to cut it right. It's not
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: going to cut it.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And so I don't know.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes I see Gavin like that moment with
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Podse where I'm like, oh, he's kind of figuring out
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: where he needs to be. But then even in that moment,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: like if they had pressed him.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: Further, he would got nothing. Yeah, because he's this is you.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Know, he's a very he has a more skilled Kamala Harris.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Basically he's a slicker Kamala Harris. And at the end
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: of the day, he doesn't believe anything. And that comes
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: through right if you if you press him, if he's
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: caught between what the donors want and what the base.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's really the thing in any issue, when
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: he's caught between what the donors want and what the
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: base wants, that's where greasy Gavin comes out. And there's
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: no square in the circle. You know, on the billionaire
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: tacks thing he's fighting against that in California, that's going
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: to be in public. Well it's documented. Yeah, So I
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: mean that's that's going to be a problem for him.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: But then he says, oh, I will like theoretically support
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: some other wealth at tax, there's not this one in particular.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, we'll see if he's able to
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: navigate all this.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a lot of at
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the same time, I could see it both ways. I
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: could see him winning in a landslide, like in a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: primary where you have bunch of challengers. Remember twenty how
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: many challenges were they're in twenty sixteen, seventeen, something like that.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: It was fun. He was like seventeen Republican challengers. So
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: each slice of the vote gets cut. Gavin is the centrist,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: He's got the money, governor of a large state. He
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: wins easily.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: I could see that people love.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: The Trump resistance. By the way, you know one thing
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: from Texas because we haven't had a ton of time
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to talk about this, did you notice the breakdown in
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the vote with tall Rico and Crockett. So tall Ico
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: wins all the upper middle class white liberals and the latinos,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: but she heavily bone and young people. But she who
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: does she win the black vote? Like very much with
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the black vote. So if you have older black people
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina, if that goes first, let's say, who
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: knows what the calendar is going to look like. I'm
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: bullish on Gavin because they'll get the momentum from there.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: You won't be able to like spin off a win
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: like in Iowa or New Hampshire, which is very different demographic,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: or Michigan, any sort of battleground state. I could easily
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: see those type of voters going for somebody more like
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Aven Newsom Whereat and that's where you know, whoever goes
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: first matters a ton. And then the timing of let's
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: say like Super Tuesday, same thing where we've got more
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: older black voters and some of these southern states which
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: are all going to vote immediately, that's very bullish, I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: think for somebody like Gavin Newsom, so I think the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: taller Eco primary is actually evidence still that there's still
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: big splits within the traditional kind of Democrat. You know,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the traditional base of a Texas Democrat was like Houston
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: black people, and now or Dallas like suburban or urban,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and now the transformation of the state and a lot
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: of the people who voted demonstrates, I think like a
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: preview of what the new primary system will look like.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And that's why you know the DNC is going to
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: try to rig the hell out of that primary system
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: like you have never seen before, So be on the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: lookout for that.
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: I go back and forth with Gah. I can see that,
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: I can see that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I can also see it being like a Dasanta situation
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: that's like, oh my god, he's going to gote now. Granted,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: you and I never bought the Disands site. We did
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: not buy the Disands. We took a lot incoming from people,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: including my own husband, who thought there was something there there.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: But you know, at the end of the day, people
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: were like, no, this is not remotely what we want.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I could see that too with Gavin, Like I think
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Gavin is more skilled and charismatic than to Sanders, but
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I could see it, so, yeah, we'll see, We'll see
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: how he's able to.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Date these waters. I could see the other side, right,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I could see it being, you know, some sort of
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter situation where the country wants somebody who believes
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: something's totally opposite more of the current political moment, a
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: really earnest politician, like the opposite of Obama. So I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: have I honestly have no clue. I could see, you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: we could be dominated by complete AI slop by that
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: point too, so we could be screwed.
• 17:33
  Speaker 9: I mean.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: The other lesson from the Texas primary is that, you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Jasmine Crockett with her Trump like Trump resistance as being
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: the core of her brand. It didn't sell outside of
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: like she won black people overwhelmingly and that was that
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: was it. The rest of the coalition was all Telerigo
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: and so like most of the Democratic base is looking
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: for more. So I don't know, we'll see, we'll see
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: how it all pans out.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to hypocrisy turning now, Hey, hypocrisy
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a something very near and dear to my heart these days,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: looking back a little bit on what did all these
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: people say who are currently in power about war with
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Iran whenever they had a chance to make their pitch
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to the American people. So we've super cut a few
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: of the people who are currently in power and some
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of the things that they said in the past compared
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to what you see on your screens today. So without
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: much more, let's take a listen.
• 18:29
  Speaker 10: And I also know the cost on the American people.
• 18:32
  Speaker 10: You know, the trillions of dollars that we've spent since
• 18:34
  Speaker 10: nine to eleven alone on waging these wasteful regime change wars,
• 18:38
  Speaker 10: how those wars have undermined our national security, and how
• 18:42
  Speaker 10: they have strengthened terrorist groups like ISIS and al Qaida.
• 18:45
  Speaker 10: So when we talk about a potential war with Iran,
• 18:48
  Speaker 10: which is looking like we are walking very dangerously down
• 18:52
  Speaker 10: that path. What I think is important for the American
• 18:55
  Speaker 10: people to know is that a war with Iran would
• 18:58
  Speaker 10: make the war a rock look like a cakewalk. The
• 19:03
  Speaker 10: devastation and the cost would be far greater than anything
• 19:06
  Speaker 10: we've ever experienced before.
• 19:07
  Speaker 9: Our interest, I think very much is in not going
• 19:10
  Speaker 9: to war with Iran.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:12
  Speaker 9: It would be huge distraction of resources, It would be
• 19:14
  Speaker 9: massively expensive to our country. And again I'm not saying
• 19:17
  Speaker 9: we stick ourselves into the Middle East and start a
• 19:20
  Speaker 9: war here, but like we recognize, okay, Israeli's golf are
• 19:23
  Speaker 9: of states don't like Iran. So let the Israelis and
• 19:27
  Speaker 9: the golf Arab states provide the counterbalance to Iran. America
• 19:31
  Speaker 9: doesn't have to constantly police every region of the world.
• 19:34
  Speaker 9: We should empower people to police their own regions of
• 19:37
  Speaker 9: the world.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Right and one.
• 19:39
  Speaker 9: We would save a lot of money too, We'd save
• 19:41
  Speaker 9: a lot of focus. But unfortunately, I think Harris she's
• 19:44
  Speaker 9: got this weird thing where I actually think she kind
• 19:47
  Speaker 9: of likes war. Maybe she feels like she feels like
• 19:49
  Speaker 9: a tough guy about it. I don't know. Why it is,
• 19:52
  Speaker 9: and they seem to be sort of sleep walking us
• 19:54
  Speaker 9: into war with Iran. It's like the dumbest of all
• 19:57
  Speaker 9: possible worlds.
• 19:58
  Speaker 11: I've been a recovery neo kan for six years now.
• 20:01
  Speaker 11: Like the foolishness with which we ricochet around the world
• 20:07
  Speaker 11: intervening think it was in our best interests when really
• 20:09
  Speaker 11: we just overturned the table and created something worse in
• 20:12
  Speaker 11: almost every single scenario has led to almost I mean,
• 20:16
  Speaker 11: the hubrius of the Pentagon is that they want to
• 20:19
  Speaker 11: now tell other countries how to do counterincurtaincy based on
• 20:22
  Speaker 11: what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So you really have learned nothing?
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Okay nothing? So, yeah, you're right.
• 20:31
  Speaker 11: That trust, the trust there that our political leaders or
• 20:33
  Speaker 11: our generals would have our best interests in mine is
• 20:35
  Speaker 11: totally broken.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: It's totally broken.
• 20:37
  Speaker 11: I will tell you you're not going to have a
• 20:39
  Speaker 11: war with me, and you're not going to have a
• 20:40
  Speaker 11: Third World.
• 20:41
  Speaker 12: War with me.
• 20:42
  Speaker 10: That I can tell you.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna turn it into the joker.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: It peets off the wagon again.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Neo Conrie Lap he's out of recovery. He needs to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: start back into the twelve. He needs to make amends first, right,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: is in that part of the twelve steps. There's a
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: lot of amends that are currently to make. But I
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: think the most potent I mean Tulsi Donald Trump obviously,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I mean he's look Trump. Actually, I would not defend.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: He said various different things to many people at all time.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: But JD. Pete Jad and Tulsi to the most extent
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: are the ones who are like, yeah, you're full of shit.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: And that is the one which honestly is so galling
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: because okay, I can say this in Tulsi's case, how
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: many times we interviewed this woman, I mean a lot, right,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: sat across from the desk, looked in the eyes. What
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: did she always talk about being in Iraqi? Medic in Iraq? Right,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: she talked about brothers and sis. I believed it. It
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: was maybe I'm super naive. I believed it when I
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: looked her in the eyes and she would talk about that.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I actually, I mean she took a lot of shit.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: She went to Syria to meet with us OD. It
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, basically got forced out of Congress
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: at the whole donor machine. Hillary called her a trader,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: like she suffered politically, and so to go from that,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and then, by the way, can we put e two
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: up on the screen here where she literally was selling
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: t shirts saying no war with Iron. You know, when
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: we first started rising, I'll go around the country, I
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: would meet a lot of Tulsi people, right, she spoke
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: to a lot of folks. Whenever it came to the
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: no war, anti war position, she went on a rogan
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the no war with Iran teachhert like, this was a
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: real constituency and I remember meeting a lot of these
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: people across the country. So then now to have her
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: as the director of National Intelligence in the situation room
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: while the war with Iran launches, it's unbelievable. Then let's
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: take the Vice president. I mean, did you hear what
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: he said there about it would not be in our interest?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I think he believed, I mean I used to think
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: he believed that. Who the hell knows now, But secondary
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: was that whole thing about Kamala who likes That's literally
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: how Donald Trump and Pete Hexsteth they're acting right now.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Pete Hexseth is literally acting like a movie character. Whenever
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: he's like we are winning and will screw you media
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: for reporting on the deaths of American soldiers. Donald Trump
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: is like Iran is two weeks away from a nuclear weapon.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Clearly he loves the theater of limited military operations, which
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: are now spiraling out of control. It's like, oh my god.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, look again, you know, you could say I
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: told you so, and that's fair certainly at this point.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, we're just never supposed
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to believe any politician like they really they. I can
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: tell you this in Tulsea's case, in JD's case, much
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: more limited extent. On Pete, I had been told by
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: multiple people that he actually was scarred by his experiences
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in Iraq, in Afghanistan and and rethought a lot of
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: stuff on Ukraine. I said, Okay, I believe you don't
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: believe it anymore. But in a lot of these cases,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and it's not just the public officials names that you
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: would know. I'm talking about deputies and other people all
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: over the National Security Council. I've met these people for years.
• 23:28
  Speaker 10: I knew.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, we were at conferences and other things were no.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Iran war was like anathema. That was like the one
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: thing where like, we're not doing this and so then
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: to not only see them in power, but working behind
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: the scenes to execute this. You're like, what the fuck
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I mean is this so it was just all a joke,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the whole thing was a joke, or it's just a cult.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Trump is in charge, and uh yeah, I mean look,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of egg on a lot
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of face, mine included. I gotta tell you, it has
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: been one of the most serially radicalized things that has
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: ever happened to me, because I've read many times in
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: books about politicians being liars and narcissists.
• 24:04
  Speaker 10: And all this.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, uh and so what you what do you do?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: You have it?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've lived here for a long time. I
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: had an appropriate level of skepticism. A lot of the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: people were working in this White House who said that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: they were against war with Iran took immense, immense, like
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: professional hits for being against a lot of the so
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: called neo con consensus. So what do you conclude by that?
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, you have a track record, you must
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: believe it. And then they come into power and it's
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: the opposite. It's it's so crazy. I'll tell you that.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: You know, on a personal level, and on a policy level.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, god, it's it's it's shocking. Like I never, ever, ever, ever,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: ever thought I would be sitting here watching this and
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: watching these people defend it.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I this is not to do and
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: I told you so. No, it's not the point the point,
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: but it's fair.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I deserve it. We you know, I'm being serious. We
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: deserve it. We deserve egg on our face. If we
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: sat on the camera and we said we don't think
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: this is going to happen, and it happens, we got
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: to eat shit. That's that's how the world works. That
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry and for all the people who want to
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: move past it, we can't move past it. We have
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: to sit. We have to grapple with reality. The people
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: we defended and the people we thought we're going to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: come into power. Who are we're going to do something?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Did not do it? Okay, period, end of story. And
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that is genuinely the greatest professional disappointment.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Of my entire life.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I think the reason the reason why I didn't buy
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: into the peace candidate and all that stuff is because
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I know Trump is a liar.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: Many politicians are. Trump just take it to an extreme degree.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Let's say but I looked at the track record from
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the first term, where they were very hawkish towards Iran.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: You had the maximum he pulls out of the Iranian
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: nuclear deal. You have the maximum pressure campaign. You have
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: the assassination of Costum Soul of money, which in and
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: of itself risked a war with Iran. And so that
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: was the track record I looked at. And then the
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: other piece that I looked at is who he was
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: getting money from, right and since Mary Maddison was such
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: a one of the largest donors hundred million dollar into
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: his campaign. You know, the combination of the track record
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: and the money and the fact that you know, I mean, listen,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I don't have a personal relationship with jade Van, so
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I just see him as a cynical political operator. All
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: of these TULSI had already changed your stripes on any
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: number of things. So I didn't take her seriously either.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: R of k Junior and kidding me what a joke
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: like obviously he shape shifted a million times.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: And so the reason I'm saying.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: This is just for the future for all of us
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: as we evaluate, Okay, candidates that we like and what
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: they're saying versus what they're likely to do. The things
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: to look at are what's the track record and where
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: does the money come from?
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: Because at the end of the day, those are going
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: to be the things.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And then you layer the epstudent files on top of
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: That's another factor that I don't think I fully processed,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: you know how oh that would be in terms of
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: apparently getting us to this place. So that was, you know,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that was how I was ultimately looking at it going in.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: But I have tons of empathy for people, especially like
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: regular people who don't follow this stuff day in and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: day out, who were watching the Iden Harris ticket committed
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: genocide in Gaza, Liz Cheney Kamala Kama's campaign with Liz Cheney,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: she you know, went out of her way to do
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: her whole like you know, most lethal military ever and
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I you know, went after transnational gangs or whatever, like
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: she tried to do the whole like I'm hawkish too, posturing,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and you know, you've got all this peace candidate rhetoric
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: coming from the Trump campaign. It took looking you know,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: back at knowing the track record and knowing where the
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: money was coming from. And Trump, as to your point side, girls,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: like he was never consistent about what he was going
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I can explain this, yeah, because this is important. So
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: when you we just talked about Solimani and all this, yeah,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: here's here was here's the experiment, and this is what
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I believed. I always thought Trump was a retard. I'm
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: be honest, okay, uh literal retard. But what did what
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I come away from the first Trump administration? The people
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: around Trump, the staff made the decision right basically, So
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: you had John Bolton, Jeff Mattis, Jim Kelly, all the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: sorry John Kelly, all these people. Okay, So the promise
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: was and this was the project. The project was, We're
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: going to replace those people so we have better policy.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And the idea is Trump is basically like this archetype
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: who gives shits about the ballroom and not much else,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: and then the staff will run the show. That's what
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I thought was gonna happen based on the first term. Okay,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And so what did I know? I knew the people
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: working in the so yeah, money and all that. Look,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I always knew the Israel thing. You can go back
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: and check what I said. I literally said, if your
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: pro Israel should vote for Trump? And if I was
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: like if you're pro pales sign you should not vote
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: for Trump. Go back and look at what I said
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty four. I am we were all
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: very clear eyed, but we were believed. We had a
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: belief in two things Ukraine and definitely ran. And the
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: reason why was that the new Cash people, the type
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: of people the Vice President included, led a project in
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the United States Senate and behind the scenes for years,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: specifically against Ukraine and Iran. Yes, I was there, I
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: remember it, and so there you go. That's where the belief,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the belief came from. Well, you did this, this, and this.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: You took a lot of hits professionally over the years,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: even picked fights, organized this entire group and staff of
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: people who all told us over the years that you
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: were going to do something, and then you came into
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: office and now you're doing the opposite, right, And look,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: let's be also fair in this regard. Trump is a
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: big boy, and maybe he just wanted to do it.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe these people were against it. I'm not I don't know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: but at the very least it's not just that you
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: couldn't stop it, But then you have these people who
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: are out there defending it, and the truth is is
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that not only have we watched how people are so
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: untethered from what they previously said in the past, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: that they're willing to literally go and openly humiliate themselves
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: on television. So do we have like the Stephen Miller
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I think you were about toss.
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: That Yeah, yeah, yeah, five. I mean, and this is too.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I think Stephen Miller is actually on an an important character,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: we'll just call it in all of this. But I mean,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: he was as clear as he could be here. The
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: first one he's responding to Jan Curie says, I don't
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: know how I can be more clear. Trump will end
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and prevent war in the Middle Least he wants peace.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Harris and her neo con cabinet want war and war war.
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: Another one. Kamala will send your sons to war. Another one.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: If young men don't want to be drafted to fight
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: in Kamala's and Cheney's Third World War, they better get
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: out and vote for Trump.
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: Another one.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Kamala's top military advisor is Liz Cheney. If Kamala wins,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Liz and Dick are running foreign policy and they will
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: invade the Middle East. Okay, now, I think another thing.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Steven Miller is extremely influential, extremely influential. They call him
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister. Internally. We got a glimpse early on
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: in those Signal conversations when they're debating about the Yemen
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: strikes and Steven Miller comes in and says, the Boss
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: wants this, so we're doing it. And it's end of story.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: No one says a word or a peepe, There are
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: no more objections raised.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: It's a done deal.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And Stephen Miller is a racist who absolutely hates Muslims,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: and I think that is a part of the story
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: here internally of what's going on. You have not only him,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: but you know, we're going to talk with Emily about
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Pete Hegsath, who's like wrote a whole book about how
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: he's itching to do Crusades two point zero because he
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: wants American Christian warriors to fight against the Muslim hordes.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: And so that is an important strain of ideology in
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: this administration as well.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: But there's no doubt that they lied to the American people.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: We talked, We did focus groups with the AOC Trump voters,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: and I was surprised, you know, I thought Gaza was important,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: but I was surprised at how many of them brought
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: up war and peace and not just Gaza. They genuinely
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: believed some of the rhetoric coming from Steven Miller. And
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean it is fair for people who
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: are looking at this to have some belief. And you've
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: got all of these figures within Trump world saying absolutely
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: not no more war with Iran. We got to learn
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the mistakes in the past, blah blah blah, to put
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: some credence in that, even as you know that you
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: know Trump is a liar and blah blah blah. So
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: it is a disgusting betrayal. It's not that it was
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: not predictable. Many people did predict it, saw it coming, etc.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: But that is true, and it is also true that
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: it is an extraordinary betrayal of the American people and
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: what many people, many people genuinely thought that they were
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: voting for with this administration exactly.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And look, put E seven up there on the screen.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: They said they were a peace ticket. Now you could say, okay, yeah,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't have believed it. I just gave you the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: whole thought process. I'm not gonna say, oh, the super
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: anti war and never believed that I said, Okay, THEO
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: are two things which are actually for winnable are Iran
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and Ukraine. Those are the two things. I was like,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I think we can get that. Based on Trump and
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: everybody else who was coming into the administration, there were
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: some early signs, the Steve Wickcoff stuff. Remember ceasefire with Israel.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: That was good.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh, okay, and then we start to get
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to where we are. It was pretty obvious by midnight
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Hammer that they were totally in control. And from what
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I've heard Tulsi, I mean, I'll give her a little
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: bit of credit. She spoke up against a twelve day war.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: From what I know, guess what she got new basically
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: do not invite to Yeah, Veneta, And now she's crawling
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: her way.
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: Back because her whole brand, she literally sold t shirts
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: that said no one.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: But she's got nothing left. Now she's done. All I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: mean a chance is to continue to suck up to try.
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: Only she needs.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, if she wants to preserve any shred of dignity, soul, whatever,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: you would have to resign.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: But apparently right but she's gone.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: If anything, she's gone all in. I hope she got
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of money from those T shirts. Because when
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the Democrats are in power and this Fulton County stuff
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: is happening, I hope you have a lot of money
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to survive some subpoenas. You're gonna be looking at two
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars in legal bills from whatever that
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: that comes. So good luck to you and to the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Gabbard family. But if you think also about all the others,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I'll make the case right. And this is what I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: always hear behind the scenes. What are they supposed to do?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: They can't do anything, They don't have any real power. Bullshit.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, Tulsi, you can resign. There are a
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: lot of other people sec Pete, Hexeth and others. I
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: mean they literally said the opposite in cases and look,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: to be fair, there were also clips of them floating
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: around out there where they were very hawkishte Pete in particular,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I chose not to believe it. There are many people
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: who assured interviews and other the positioning they're like, it
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: has changed. It's legitimately different. I mean Steve Miller's on
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: television today a Trump doctor in his side isolationism America first,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: not mean America alone. We're all, you know, our great
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: powerful military Iran. To be honest, I mean, I actually
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: think he was against some of the wars previously. I
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: remember talking to the people who knew him. I mean,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: that's why it's so crazy. But what you have to
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: do now, it's all about just pleasing Trump and from
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: that point Trump, I guess Trump has literally in many
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: cases almost never inserted absolute and total control over any
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: real foreign policy portfolio. He really was relatively blank slate,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: deal maker, et cetera. Again, that's why I thought the
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: staff would be highly, highly influential. But clearly on Iran,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: he was the primary mover here. I don't think he
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: was pushed into this. I just want to be that
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: very clear. He was the person who made the ultimate decision.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm still I'm still trying to figure out that story, right,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: I still don't know.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like he also has bought into some of
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the messianic hype around him himself.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very right, especially nine Am or two Venezuela. It's
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: like you said, I mean, he's a gambler who keeps
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: he's like on a hot roll on a craps table,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: like he keeps getting but ultimate again, if you read
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: enough history. It's like, oh my god, Stony success, Stney success,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Sney success, and you start to believe all the hype
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and then boom you slam into a brick wall and
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: then you invade Russia, right, what ends up happening?
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's I think he's he
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: talks about his own mortality a lot. Yeah, lately, he's
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: thinking he'd apparently just now believe he'll be getting into
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: heaven based on what he said, I would say, if
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: there is a heaven, I think that's probably pretty accurate assessment.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And he's thinking about his legacy and so along with
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: you know, some stupid arch and frickin' ballroom and the drapes,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: the other thing that he wants to establish as his
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: legacy is like he's worse. That's that's what he's decided.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: That's his way to make his mark on the world.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: And so so here we are. And that's a good
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: transition to talking about some of the I can't even
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: call them religious undercurrents because at this point it's such
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: a dominant talking point. And I for me, as someone
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: who is like I'm not a religious person, totally secular person,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I don't factor in when I'm thinking about geopolitics, that
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: you have these like fanatical religious zealots who are ideologically
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: committed to, you know, this like end Times ideology, many
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: of whom are in high positions of power here in Israel,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: and also like Iran is literally a theocracy. And so
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: we wanted to bring in Emily to you know, to
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: shed some light on the specifics of what this ideology
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: is and just how influential it has been in bringing
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: us to this place. So, guys, increasingly American officials and
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: military commanders are framing our war with Iran in religious
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: holy war terms. You also obviously have the Israelis framing
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: things and religious terms. You have the Iranians, which is
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: literally a theocracy. So to help us understand what the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: hell is going on with all of this, we could
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: think of no one better than our own co host,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Emily Jishinski, who also is host of After Party with Emily.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Great to see Emily, Good to see m Thanks for
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: having me.
• 37:16
  Speaker 13: Guys.
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, of course I need you to.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I need you to explain all of this to me
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: because it's very disturbing and very confusing to me. So
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to run through a bunch of things that
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: have just happened on the American Christian nationalist side, and
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: you can break down for me. You know what they're thinking,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: how deep this ideology goes, et cetera. So let's go
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: ahead and start here with Lindsey Graham, who has been
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: a primary mover and shaker in terms for years, but
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: especially under this Trump administration, pushing towards this war, and
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: he is explicitly framing it as a religious war.
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to that.
• 37:50
  Speaker 14: This is a religious war. Who wins it at the
• 37:53
  Speaker 14: end of the day. Do the radical Islamic terrorist who
• 37:56
  Speaker 14: want to kill all the Jews because God told them to,
• 37:59
  Speaker 14: who want to kill me because I'm an Infidel, who
• 38:02
  Speaker 14: want to purify Islam, to reject moderation and make everybody
• 38:07
  Speaker 14: a jahadas.
• 38:09
  Speaker 15: This is a big deal.
• 38:11
  Speaker 14: I'll deal with Section two thirty. So what we're facing
• 38:15
  Speaker 14: right now is a moment of decision that will set
• 38:19
  Speaker 14: the course of the future of the Mid East for
• 38:21
  Speaker 14: a thousand years.
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: So religious war.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: And if that's not enough for you, here is Speaker
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: of the House Mike Johnson framing this also in terms
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: of his problems with the Iranians religion.
• 38:30
  Speaker 16: They have been and they say that quiet parts out loud.
• 38:33
  Speaker 16: They wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth,
• 38:35
  Speaker 16: and they'd like to take us out as well. We're
• 38:37
  Speaker 16: the great Satan and their analogy, and they're misguided religion
• 38:41
  Speaker 16: and there was no way to appease them.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Misguided religion. Okay, we've got Senator Kramer when confronted by
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Code Pink activists media. Benjamin also talking about our religious
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: obligations to Israel.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: Let's listen to that is really beautiful.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Of listen, did I states in the Israel iron clad partners.
• 39:00
  Speaker 16: We need them in the Middle East, we need them
• 39:01
  Speaker 16: for strong We have a biblical responsibility to him as
• 39:04
  Speaker 16: well as an allied responsibility Israel.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: We should never we should never sever that relationship.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Biblical responsibility to Israel. This is a United States senator
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: obviously just took a vote on war Powers resolution. He says,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: our responsibilities there are biblical. Let's take a look at
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: F six. There's a report that military commanders, multiple of them,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: are telling troops that President Trump has been anointed by
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to Kara's
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: armageddon and mark his return to Earth. So you have
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: a bunch of complaints coming in to a nonprofit organization
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: saying that you know, this whole separation of church and
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: state thing is not being held true to. As you
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: have a number of military commanders framing this war as
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you know, a biblical religious conflict. You have the let's
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: do five f five next, guys, this is PAULA White,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: This is Trump's spiritual advisor. To get a sense of
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: the you know, what's going going on here beneath behind
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: the scenes, the type of you know, spiritual guidance that
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: the President of the United States is receiving.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: Let's listen to that.
• 40:06
  Speaker 15: Strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and
• 40:09
  Speaker 15: strike and strike and strike and strike and strike until
• 40:12
  Speaker 15: you have victory for every enemy that is aligned against you.
• 40:16
  Speaker 15: Let there be that we would strike the ground for
• 40:18
  Speaker 15: you will give us victory. God, I hear a sound
• 40:21
  Speaker 15: of abundance of rain. I hear a sound of victory.
• 40:24
  Speaker 15: I hear a sound of shouting and singing. I hear
• 40:27
  Speaker 15: a sound of victory. Angels are being dispatched right now.
• 40:30
  Speaker 15: Hamanda Sandata rita eata Rica Dhada for angels have even
• 40:40
  Speaker 15: despit dispatch from Africa right now Africa right now, Africa,
• 40:44
  Speaker 15: right now, from Africa, right now.
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: And finally the Secretary have you seen the remix of
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: that clip? By the way, but I would like to bangers.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Finally, the Secuary of War Pete Hagsath, who has the
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: you know, Crusader crossed.
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: He was an extremists and not allowed to.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Participate in protection for the Biden inauguration because of his tattoos.
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: Here he is talking about.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Some of this biblical prophecy and including the miracle of
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: reconstructing the Third Temple of Solomon. He also reportedly at
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: a bar previously was chanting kill all Muslims. So this
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: is our Secretary of warpeat Texas.
• 41:24
  Speaker 13: And today Jennifer and I and others had a chance
• 41:27
  Speaker 13: to go see the western wall of the temple now
• 41:30
  Speaker 13: the western wall tunnels so much of the old city.
• 41:34
  Speaker 13: And as you stand there, you can't help but behold
• 41:36
  Speaker 13: the miracle before you. And it got me thinking about
• 41:40
  Speaker 13: another miracle that I hope all of you don't see
• 41:43
  Speaker 13: too far away, Because nineteen seventeen was a miracle, nineteen
• 41:48
  Speaker 13: forty eight was a miracle, nineteen sixty seven was a miracle.
• 41:53
  Speaker 12: Twenty seventeen, the Declaration of Jerusalem, of the capital was
• 41:57
  Speaker 12: a miracle, and there's no reason why the miracle of
• 42:00
  Speaker 12: the re establishment of the Temple on the Temple Mount
• 42:03
  Speaker 12: is not possible.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know how it would happen. You don't know
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: how it would happen, but I know that.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: It could happen so emily.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Why is this increasingly being framed as a religious conflict
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: holy war from the American side.
• 42:25
  Speaker 8: Well, what's interesting about that last heg Seth clip is
• 42:27
  Speaker 8: that was around the time where the embassy was moved
• 42:29
  Speaker 8: officially by the first Trump administration to Jerusalem, and that's
• 42:32
  Speaker 8: when we saw a lot of this flaring up as well,
• 42:35
  Speaker 8: a lot of people speaking just like Hegseth did. And
• 42:38
  Speaker 8: Hegseth in that clip is somewhat careful. He doesn't say
• 42:42
  Speaker 8: why there should be a third Temple, which from the
• 42:46
  Speaker 8: dispensationalist position, So if you're an evangelical Christian, there's a sect.
• 42:51
  Speaker 8: It's sort of it's sort of informal. It's taught in
• 42:54
  Speaker 8: some seminaries, but it's kind of a pop culture thing too.
• 42:59
  Speaker 8: There's a movement called dispensationalism, and it's been around a while.
• 43:04
  Speaker 8: It's had waning popularity in America through different periods. But
• 43:08
  Speaker 8: it's not just about the end Times, but basically prescribes
• 43:11
  Speaker 8: different dispensations of history, and one of those dispensations would
• 43:16
  Speaker 8: be the Third Temple getting rebuilt and that ushering in
• 43:20
  Speaker 8: the end times. And one of the easiest ways to
• 43:22
  Speaker 8: think about it is you substitute everywhere in scripture for
• 43:28
  Speaker 8: where everywhere you've seen in scripture Israel, you substitute that
• 43:31
  Speaker 8: for the nation, the current nation of Israel, so political Israel.
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: And if you read scripture that way, that the nation
• 43:38
  Speaker 8: of Israel that was established in the last one hundred years.
• 43:42
  Speaker 8: You can see why people, especially when the embassy was
• 43:46
  Speaker 8: being moved to Jerusalem, look at this in evangelical circles
• 43:50
  Speaker 8: as being fulfillment of scripture. Now, I'm a non denominational evangelical.
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: I grew up Missouri, Sinred Lutherans. We weren't dispensationalist. But
• 44:01
  Speaker 8: it was a huge pop culture movement at the time
• 44:03
  Speaker 8: in the nineties, and so a lot of people in
• 44:07
  Speaker 8: conservative Christian circles grew up with like the Left Behind books,
• 44:10
  Speaker 8: the movies. They were very popular at the time. And
• 44:15
  Speaker 8: Pete heiksas Church is not dispensationalist. I don't know where
• 44:18
  Speaker 8: he was going to church in twenty eighteen. I think
• 44:20
  Speaker 8: that's why he was careful with it. So some of
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: this is flirting with people who are dispensationalist. The movement
• 44:26
  Speaker 8: has kind of been waning since the nineties, since the
• 44:29
  Speaker 8: early aughts. There aren't a ton of people like even
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: there are a ton of people I know in evangelical
• 44:34
  Speaker 8: circles who are still dispensationalist my age, but it's a
• 44:38
  Speaker 8: lot of boomers, a lot of people who, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 8: that's how they've always seen Israel. The last thing I'll
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: just add on this point because there's a lot more
• 44:46
  Speaker 8: to talk about. But the last thing I'll add on
• 44:47
  Speaker 8: this point is if you grew up, you know, part
• 44:53
  Speaker 8: of your life there wasn't a country called Israel, then
• 44:56
  Speaker 8: again you could see how it's easy to read into
• 45:00
  Speaker 8: some of this the fulfillment of scripture when suddenly there
• 45:03
  Speaker 8: is a country called Israel that kept surviving after all.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Of this conflict.
• 45:08
  Speaker 8: So that's where some of this is coming from. I
• 45:11
  Speaker 8: think it is theologically very misguided, but that's a little
• 45:15
  Speaker 8: bit of the background on like the movement that fuels
• 45:18
  Speaker 8: some of.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Us well, let's get into the nitty gritty. So Tucker
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: did a whole episode about this today, which I also
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: recommend people go and listen to. Why would the Third
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Why do they even want the Third Temple to be built? Because,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: as he was saying, it's actually kind of violates their
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: own scripture about the way that they see Jesus as
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: the coming of God and that, but it's very important
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: in the Torah and to the rebuilding of the Temple
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: to like Jewish theology, and that there's kind of basically
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: an intersection within the dispensationalist framework about bringing about the
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: end times and apocalypse and the return of Christ to Earth.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So get into some of that because you know, obviously
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: not exactly my area of expertise.
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: No, that's exactly right, because that's part of this big
• 46:06
  Speaker 8: debate in Christian circles about dispensations. So there's something called
• 46:10
  Speaker 8: pre millennial dispensationalism, there's something called post millennial dispensationalism, and
• 46:15
  Speaker 8: then there's a millennials. But what that means is you're
• 46:18
  Speaker 8: reading into scripture and a lot of these prophetic verses
• 46:22
  Speaker 8: are they're vague, and that's part of the I think
• 46:26
  Speaker 8: theological problem with carving out dispensations is it's very clear
• 46:32
  Speaker 8: in the Gospels.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: For instance, that you're not going to know.
• 46:35
  Speaker 8: There will be signs, but you're not going to know,
• 46:38
  Speaker 8: So if you're reading really specific things into the dispensations,
• 46:42
  Speaker 8: I mean, my perspective on that is it's not prescribed
• 46:45
  Speaker 8: in the Gospels. It's not the way that Christ talked
• 46:47
  Speaker 8: about the end times. But there are different dispensations. So
• 46:50
  Speaker 8: if you're a pre millennial dispensationalist, you believe that this
• 46:54
  Speaker 8: ushers in a millenarian time where Christ returns and the
• 47:00
  Speaker 8: Jews are Ryan will say, you know a lot of Christians,
• 47:05
  Speaker 8: he'll say, it's like using Jewish people as cannon fodder
• 47:08
  Speaker 8: for the apocalypse. That's how Ryan's described it before. I
• 47:11
  Speaker 8: think the charitable way that a lot of evangelicals would
• 47:14
  Speaker 8: say is actually that they believed the Jewish people are
• 47:17
  Speaker 8: going to be protected and are going to be by
• 47:21
  Speaker 8: when Christ returns, are going to be ushered in to
• 47:26
  Speaker 8: the true Church with Jesus. And that's where this particular
• 47:31
  Speaker 8: plot of land, which is the Temple mount as you mentioned, Sager,
• 47:34
  Speaker 8: if you have a third Temple, then Christ returns it's
• 47:38
  Speaker 8: a sign of the return. And you can read into Daniel,
• 47:41
  Speaker 8: you can read into the Book of Revelation, you can
• 47:43
  Speaker 8: read into all kinds of different prophecies. I mean, that's
• 47:47
  Speaker 8: why numbers nineteen. The Red Heifer, which Ryan and I
• 47:51
  Speaker 8: have covered before. That's why there's the Temple Institute in
• 47:56
  Speaker 8: Jerusalem that is preparing things like the Arc of the
• 47:58
  Speaker 8: Covenant to exist at biblical proportions, the Red Heifer to
• 48:02
  Speaker 8: exact biblical proportions, because they believe they want to re
• 48:05
  Speaker 8: enter the Temple and you can't without the Red Heifer,
• 48:08
  Speaker 8: for example. So that means that they're fully intent on
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: building the Third Temple, which then brings us into conflict
• 48:14
  Speaker 8: obviously with Islam, where you have the Dome of the
• 48:18
  Speaker 8: Rock al Oxa on that exact same territory and people
• 48:21
  Speaker 8: who are willing to fight to the death to protect
• 48:24
  Speaker 8: that from being rebuilt. So a little bit of a tangent,
• 48:26
  Speaker 8: but basically, there are dispensations that people believe in, and
• 48:31
  Speaker 8: part of it is the Jewish people rebuilding the Third
• 48:33
  Speaker 8: Temple that ushering in the apocalyptic, apocalyptic reign of Christ.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and look here's my it's a free country.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: People can believe whatever they want to believe. It becomes
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: my problem when policymakers are asserting that this ideology is
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: being used to justify another endless war in the Middle East.
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: You know, partly, I think all.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Of us have been trying to read the tea leaves
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: and get whatever intel we can read the reporting about,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: like what is going on here. Why even though the
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: political people and the military people and all our allies
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: in the region and the Europeans are like, don't do this,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: why we still did this? And I'm curious for your
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: view on how influential this religious ideological view is, Like
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: how many people in high levels of the Trump administration
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: are in favor of this war because they want to
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: like precipitate the end times, like these military commanders are
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: telling our troops.
• 49:27
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I wonder about that too. I think it's sort
• 49:30
  Speaker 8: of less the dispensationalists and more the people who believe
• 49:34
  Speaker 8: that you have to see it's overlaps with dispensationalism, but
• 49:37
  Speaker 8: people who believe that you have to literally interpret Israel
• 49:40
  Speaker 8: as the modern nation state of Israel in scripture. So
• 49:44
  Speaker 8: that's where I would look at a Pete Hegseth, for example,
• 49:46
  Speaker 8: and say, I don't think that he's a dispensationalist. He
• 49:49
  Speaker 8: goes to Doug Wilson's church. I don't think he believes
• 49:52
  Speaker 8: that we have some moral obligation to usher in this
• 49:55
  Speaker 8: dispensation of the end times. I do think he believes
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: very strongly that everywhere we see Israel in scripture, we're
• 50:02
  Speaker 8: not just talking about the lowercase end nation of the
• 50:05
  Speaker 8: Jewish people. We are talking about the literal political nation
• 50:08
  Speaker 8: state of modern Israel. And I do think there are
• 50:11
  Speaker 8: a lot of people Mike Huckabee, and Hkkabee has played
• 50:14
  Speaker 8: very carefully with dispensationalist rhetoric. My strong guess is that
• 50:18
  Speaker 8: Mike Kokabee is a dispensationalist, but he's also, like I've
• 50:21
  Speaker 8: gone back to when he ran for president in the
• 50:24
  Speaker 8: eight cycle to try and decode and get him like
• 50:28
  Speaker 8: explicitly saying talking like a dispensationalist. He does talk like
• 50:31
  Speaker 8: a dispensationalist, but he's been careful to whether or not
• 50:35
  Speaker 8: to like fully embrace that politically. But I'm pretty sure
• 50:38
  Speaker 8: Mike Huckabee, you could probably put him in that vein.
• 50:40
  Speaker 8: You can definitely put him in the vein of somebody
• 50:42
  Speaker 8: who substitutes the nation of Israel in scripture for the
• 50:46
  Speaker 8: modern political nation state of Israel. And I actually think
• 50:49
  Speaker 8: that's probably even more powerfully driving the people in the
• 50:53
  Speaker 8: Trump administration's policy toward Israel. We know Donald Trump doesn't
• 50:57
  Speaker 8: I mean, Paula White could say whatever she wants. Donald Trump,
• 51:00
  Speaker 8: he doesn't believe any of it. He thinks it's wacky.
• 51:02
  Speaker 8: There's like no question in my mind.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like a temple around the lions. But
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Speaker of the House, you know, you've
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: got to y, Senators, we just played for you. They
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: believe this stuff inside Israel too. I wanted to flag this,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: like you said about the Temple, this is institute. Let's
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: go ahead and put F seven up on the screen.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: So here you have soldiers of the IDF and they're
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: tweeting out the Temple Institute saying, soldiers of the IDF
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: are fighting with all their might, hearts and souls for
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: the land of Israel, the people of Israel, and the
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: God of Israel. This soldier made that clear when he
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: attached an arm patch depicting the Holy Temple and the
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: word devere ancient Hebrew for the Holy of Holies. Can
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: we show the patch guys, please, just to show everybody
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: what they have on their arm. And then you also
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: had previously members of the IDF and others put, for example,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: like Greater Israel patches on their uniform to signify what
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: they are voting for. So can you explain why this
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: is so significant? Like you just said to these Temple Institute,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: what is the Temple Institute? Why is it so powerful?
• 51:56
  Speaker 8: Yeah, the Temple Institute is a really important aspect of
• 51:59
  Speaker 8: all of this because it's this physical manifestation of the
• 52:02
  Speaker 8: theology here of people, I would argue, like a Ben
• 52:06
  Speaker 8: Gavie who goes in praise on the Temple mount So
• 52:11
  Speaker 8: that's not you're not supposed to do that, but has
• 52:13
  Speaker 8: been pushing the limits, pushing the limits, pushing the limits.
• 52:15
  Speaker 8: This is actually what was cited by a Hamas when
• 52:18
  Speaker 8: they talked about Operation what al Oxa flood, that is
• 52:22
  Speaker 8: what they called October seventh, and part of their justification
• 52:27
  Speaker 8: for that awful attack was that they saw encroachment on
• 52:33
  Speaker 8: this area. And so that's where this gets really like
• 52:36
  Speaker 8: politically and on a human level, very scary because this
• 52:39
  Speaker 8: is sacred ground obviously to three faiths and eschatologically significant
• 52:44
  Speaker 8: for three faiths. So for people who are supportive of
• 52:49
  Speaker 8: the Temple Institute, which is funded by billionaires, they have
• 52:52
  Speaker 8: literally been going through the exact specifications and versus like
• 52:55
  Speaker 8: numbers nineteen. They have been you know, you mentioned the
• 52:59
  Speaker 8: holiest of holies that's supposed to be in the Temple.
• 53:02
  Speaker 8: That's where God resides in the Temple. That's where you
• 53:06
  Speaker 8: have to build that place. This is throughout the Old Testament.
• 53:08
  Speaker 8: You build that place for God. This is the arc
• 53:12
  Speaker 8: of the Covenant, has been built to specifications by the
• 53:15
  Speaker 8: Temple Institute. They have made preparations for Israel to take
• 53:19
  Speaker 8: that ground basically and rebuild the Third Temple. So it's
• 53:23
  Speaker 8: actually not a crazy abstract thing.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: This is in motion.
• 53:27
  Speaker 8: It is funded by politically significant billionaires, and people try
• 53:31
  Speaker 8: to keep My sense is that in Israel, far right
• 53:34
  Speaker 8: politicians try to kind of keep a little bit of
• 53:36
  Speaker 8: distance from it because it's such a hot, hot, hot
• 53:40
  Speaker 8: kinetic question from the Temple Institute itself. But this is
• 53:43
  Speaker 8: happening and there are people who are obviously supportive of it,
• 53:47
  Speaker 8: and so if Israel were to get this ground, they
• 53:50
  Speaker 8: would be rebuilding the Third Temple and expecting in some
• 53:54
  Speaker 8: cases to be like operating with Third Temple Judaism like immediately,
• 54:00
  Speaker 8: and I think a lot of far right Jews absolutely
• 54:01
  Speaker 8: would support that. Religious Jews would absolutely support that. I mean,
• 54:05
  Speaker 8: it is in their scripture. So that's where this can
• 54:09
  Speaker 8: come to a head very very quickly, in very very
• 54:11
  Speaker 8: ugly ways.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: And do those donors overlap with Republican Party or Donald
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Trump donors.
• 54:17
  Speaker 8: My guess is probably the Washington posted a long story
• 54:21
  Speaker 8: back in twenty thirteen on who was funding the Temple Institute,
• 54:24
  Speaker 8: and I would assume that some of the same people
• 54:27
  Speaker 8: have since been active in the Trump world. One of
• 54:32
  Speaker 8: the reasons I would assume that is because we saw
• 54:34
  Speaker 8: again some of this overlap when he moved the embassy
• 54:36
  Speaker 8: to Jerusalem that was, and then obviously with Mike Huckabee
• 54:40
  Speaker 8: now being the ambassador, he's not just an advisory's not
• 54:42
  Speaker 8: just like Paul White, He's literally the ambassador to Israel,
• 54:45
  Speaker 8: which is so yes, I would assume so, but it's
• 54:51
  Speaker 8: I think they try to be kind of low key,
• 54:53
  Speaker 8: so's it's hard to know exactly.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: One person who hasn't been that low key about certain
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: of his views. As Pete Hegseth just to go back
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: to him because he is the Secretary of War. Reportedly,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know it's true or not he's pushing for
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: a ground invasion in Iran. He wrote a book in
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty called American Crusade. In it he argued that
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: quote Christian crusaders pushed back the Muslim hordes in the
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: twelfth century, American crusaders will need to muster the same
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: courage against Islamists today. And so he's been quite explicit
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: about his view that he wants another like Crusades two
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: point zero, and that he views it in explicitly religious terms.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: So talk to us about what we know about his ideology,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: as he is clearly a key influential figure behind the
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: scenes making important decisions about how this all unfolds.
• 55:43
  Speaker 8: And just by the way, while you were saying that, Crystal,
• 55:45
  Speaker 8: I did look up some of the Temple Mount donors. Yes,
• 55:47
  Speaker 8: and the instinct that you had is correct. It's not
• 55:50
  Speaker 8: entirely surprising overlap with Trump World. One of them actually
• 55:53
  Speaker 8: quit the Columbia University Board of Directors over post October
• 55:57
  Speaker 8: seventh things on that camp. So heg Sath, I think
• 56:03
  Speaker 8: I mean this is again right now post October seventh.
• 56:08
  Speaker 8: There are people who are actually in the bucket that
• 56:11
  Speaker 8: are critical of Israel from a Christian perspective that might
• 56:15
  Speaker 8: be more like aligned with actually Tucker on this, but
• 56:18
  Speaker 8: who are frustrated with Tucker for urging more. I don't
• 56:24
  Speaker 8: even know what the right word is, tolerance of Islam.
• 56:28
  Speaker 8: Maybe that's the right way to put it, because you know,
• 56:31
  Speaker 8: the Rod Dreri writes about this a lot. He's an
• 56:33
  Speaker 8: Orthodox Christian, but he writes about how the civilizational conflict
• 56:38
  Speaker 8: between Islam and Christianity is inevitably coming to a head
• 56:42
  Speaker 8: in the twenty first century.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: So Hegseith is in that bucket.
• 56:45
  Speaker 8: I think it's not necessarily an ascatological and times type thing,
• 56:48
  Speaker 8: but it is definitely Christianity has been too permissive of
• 56:54
  Speaker 8: the spread of Islam, would be the line, for too long,
• 56:58
  Speaker 8: and are you need to sort of prepare for that
• 57:02
  Speaker 8: fight because it's inevitably surging in the years ahead. That's
• 57:05
  Speaker 8: how I would describe the perspective of people like Pete.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I think that makes sense. Yeah, well, crazy stuff, at
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: least from my perspective. You know, like you says, free country,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: you can believe anything you would like. It is a
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: little worrying whenever it starts to affect our foreign policy.
• 57:19
  Speaker 8: Go ahead, well, I was just gonna say, also, we
• 57:21
  Speaker 8: didn't even cover the eschatological perspective of like the IRGC,
• 57:25
  Speaker 8: which has in recent years been looking specifically at a
• 57:29
  Speaker 8: lot of this as like the matism and in mom
• 57:33
  Speaker 8: and we could have Muslim guests explain this better than
• 57:36
  Speaker 8: I can. But that particular slice of land, which is
• 57:39
  Speaker 8: in context right now, is so tied up in some
• 57:43
  Speaker 8: extremist eschatologies, some mainstream eschatologies around the world, so it's
• 57:47
  Speaker 8: such a fragile situation as well.
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: Week I do want to ask you one.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Question about that though, because obviously we assassinated the Isola,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: who was not only a political leader but also a
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Shia religious You know, I've seen some analysis that you know,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: basically like, okay, you've now turned this guy who was
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: an old man and probably dying within the year, You've
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: now turned him into a martyr. And this is going
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: to have significance for Shia Muslims, not only in Iran
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: but across the region. You may see some signs of
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: that already, since we have riots in Bahrain, which is
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: sort of a fifty to fifty roughly Muslim Shia Muslim country.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: So you know, what do you make of that analysis
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: and the significance of our assassination of the Ayatola.
• 58:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah, stuff about like Mazism is often peddled by neo
• 58:35
  Speaker 8: conservatives who are pushing for exactly what just happened, war
• 58:38
  Speaker 8: with Iran and heightened conflict with Iran. I look at
• 58:41
  Speaker 8: that as actually evidence to the contrary, which is that
• 58:44
  Speaker 8: you are not going to bomb away this theology that
• 58:47
  Speaker 8: is now deeply ingrained by your own arguments in the IRGC,
• 58:51
  Speaker 8: which is you know, it's not one hundred percent support
• 58:54
  Speaker 8: of Iranians, of course not, but it's not an insignificant
• 58:57
  Speaker 8: portion of the country either.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: We've seen people weeping in.
• 58:59
  Speaker 8: The streets over the death of the Ayatola. So it's
• 59:03
  Speaker 8: not like you're bombing away entire suaths of Iran that
• 59:07
  Speaker 8: are supportive of the Iatola and this theology. So that
• 59:12
  Speaker 8: to me is also I mean completely backwards, but it's
• 59:16
  Speaker 8: you end up again with potential for an isis to
• 59:19
  Speaker 8: come out of a power vacuum where you have radicalized
• 59:23
  Speaker 8: people who are even because they feel like this just
• 59:25
  Speaker 8: confirmed what the Iyahtola was saying about him being a
• 59:29
  Speaker 8: martyr and him being a historic religious figure, which obviously
• 59:33
  Speaker 8: he is, but in that kind of theological sense as well.
• 59:36
  Speaker 8: So it's so dangerous. It's so dangerous, and that has
• 59:40
  Speaker 8: been used as evidence why we should act. I think
• 59:44
  Speaker 8: it's scary that you would have anybody with nuclear weapons
• 59:46
  Speaker 8: who has that eschatological claim on the land. There are
• 59:49
  Speaker 8: many countries at this point who have people in their
• 59:52
  Speaker 8: countries with those types of beliefs. United States, Israel, so
• 59:56
  Speaker 8: missiles in the hands of people who believe that destruct
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 8: of Jewish people helps bring about the Mazi, who helps
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 8: bring about that dispensation in Islamic theology. No, it's not
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 8: comfortable to the rest of the world either, But did
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 8: you just make that more potent serious question?
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Obviously serious question. Yeah, And what I had read is that,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, I don't know he's eighty he was
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: eighty six right when he died, But he had multiple
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: quotes on the record where he's like, my greatest fear
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: is it all? Like, I don't have it exactly, but
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: he was like, my greatest fears I'll die of old
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: age and I won't get to be a martyr. And
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: so he was like a year left. He basically says
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: something like that, he's like, my greatest year, dosn't wanted
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to die as a martyr? And he did? Right? And
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: now he did?
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: And so now what?
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: And so you've got all these Shia Muslims in Iraq
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: and Bahrain and elsewhere, we're gonna look at who knows
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: who they're going to elect. There's some reporting now that
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: his own son might be selected, even though the Ayatola
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: himself had put up like he had said some things
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: about how he didn't want like familial succession necessarily, but
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: they might do it as a political statement. I mean,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: if you killed my father and what didn't kill his
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: granddaughter and his daughter and so my sister and his wife,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: her wife daughter and all that. Yeah, what do you
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: think my beliefs are going to be? Right? It doesn't
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: take a genius at a personal level, and then combine
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: that with religious faith one of the most important Shia
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: leaders in the world to say, oh man, you know
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: this could have some serious consequences anyway. I mean, we've
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: talked for a long time. Thank you, We appreciate it.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: You're a religion correspondent. Thank you guys so much for watching.
• 1:01:27
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• 1:01:30
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• 1:01:32
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• 1:01:39
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