Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Mr. Mindset, Resilience, and Grit Jeff Martinovich

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Mr. Mindset, Resilience, and Grit Jeff Martinovich · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:00
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
0:06
In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
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fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
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Sad. There's some humor, but
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hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
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help you knock down some of the prisons you built up in your own
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mind. All right, welcome back,
0:34
nightmare, success. In and out, listeners.
0:37
We are back. You know, this is where you come
0:39
for. What happens when your worst
0:40
fear becomes your reality. How do you adapt, survive.
0:44
Overcome, Set yourself free? Well, as you all probably know,
0:48
I sound like a broken record when I talk on here about, you
0:52
know, when people get indicted, 9798% of those people do a plea
0:57
bargain, go to prison and they don't fight, they don't fight
1:01
the system. Well, it's different today.
1:05
I've got a guy that I'm interviewing and Jeff
1:11
Martinovich, he he actually went through the whole thing, even to
1:17
the point where the he he got all the way to trial and there
1:21
was a deliberation, hung jury and the judge said Nope, you're
1:26
going back in the end. And it ended up Jeff ended up
1:29
getting up basically a 14 year sentence and he fought.
1:34
And I want to read a little bit about just his background 'cause
1:37
I think it's his background's fascinating 'cause he's kind of
1:40
done it all. But he earned his BS in Business
1:43
Management from the United States Air Force Academy and his
1:47
MBA in Finance from the College of William Mary.
1:50
He had the honor of serving his country during the first Gulf
1:53
War at Tactical Air Command Headquarters, Langley, Virginia.
1:58
Pursuing a career in financial services.
2:00
Jeff was the founder and CEO of MICG Investment Management, a
2:05
billion dollar wealth management firm nationally recognized for
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its rapid growth following the 2008 financial crisis.
2:14
MICG Hedge Funds experience of regulatory Some regulatory
2:17
scrutiny and allegations as CEO, Jeff vigorously defended his
2:23
firm, refusing on three separate occasions.
2:27
Each time I'm I'm reading, I'm breaking away here because each
2:30
time it was less time than they. I think it finally got down to
2:34
like three years and serving 18 months.
2:36
He refused all of those settlement offers, and he went
2:41
to trial against the United States of America.
2:45
In a bizarre narrative, Jeff was convicted, sentenced to 14 years
2:48
in federal prison. His case was reversed twice by
2:53
the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. 2 separate US District
2:56
Court judges were removed and his successful federal suit
3:01
liberated him from the higher security violent prison.
3:04
In May and May 2020, After nearly seven years, Jeff was
3:10
released to home confinement to begin his journey of rebuilding,
3:13
restoring, turning disadvantages and advantage to advantages.
3:18
And his book we were just talking about the his, his, his.
3:21
This is the second book just released last month and it's
3:27
called When Not If. And I'm just starting to get
3:30
into it. I I just.
3:32
I'm just a big fan of Jeff and his.
3:34
His way, his leadership. His charisma.
3:37
His can't do it. Attitude.
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Just, you know, one step at a time.
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But take take a step and don't don't stop.
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And his other book is just one more.
3:48
And he's now the CEO of Jam Accelerator LLC.
3:52
And it's a business consulting firm.
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It's it's a crazy story. I can't wait to unpack all this
3:59
with Jeff. Before we do, I want to
4:01
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All right folks. Jeff Martinovich, so happy
4:58
you're here. How are you man?
5:00
I'm fantastic, Brad. I got to tell you real quick, I
5:03
want to talk to those sponsors of yours because the first thing
5:07
I did when I got home is like I got to get a car and I'm so dumb
5:11
and I hadn't doing it online because I can't go anywhere, you
5:14
know, to look at what? So I buy a car out of Chicago.
5:18
It shows up, you know, 100 days late.
5:21
Clearly it's been through a flood.
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I know I lost so much money and I had no money at the time.
5:29
You need it Auto Plaza Direct. I that's what I'm saying.
5:33
I shouldn't know those guys. I I've made a lot of dumb
5:37
investment decisions, but that was still my dumbest yet.
5:41
I love it. And for for those who who are
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listening and watching Jeff when he got home he's been on the the
5:51
CARES act put people on home confinement.
5:53
But it's not all you know daisies and roses.
5:57
You you have to you have to wear a ankle monitor.
6:00
You probably have to be in by 9:00.
6:02
You have travel restrictions. But what Jeff and I were just
6:04
saying it's better than the alternative.
6:06
It's it's better than being in prison and and your journey
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through all that was I can't. Well, I want to jump into all of
6:14
them before we do. Jeff.
6:16
I You've got such a interesting history because you've you've
6:20
got the military mixed into this and then you get into the
6:23
entrepreneurship of building a company.
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And one of the things I thought that was interesting about your
6:30
story and building the company was that it seemed like at a
6:35
time when all that financial disaster happened, they went
6:38
after certain size companies, not too small, not too big, but
6:43
they went after the ones that could sink their teeth in that
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were just right. You know, it's like the three
6:48
years deal. Yeah, we.
6:50
Take it down. I call it purgatory that, you
6:53
know, we were too big to not be on the radar screen, but too
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small to write the $300 million check that makes them move on to
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the next guy, 'cause you remember, you know, the Federal
7:07
Reserve and everybody gave all the big banks trillions of
7:10
dollars and then find them to get, then find them to just get
7:14
their check back. Yeah.
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And it's funny, you know, the whole world kind of doesn't see
7:19
that. But yeah, we, you know, and and.
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Timing, I you know that that was the craziness of the timing of
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that time period. It was.
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That was a little, that was a little Occupy Wall Street time.
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You know you're going to get some of the badge.
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Your 4O1K just got crushed, people.
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Were looking for scalps. And and I was too naive to just
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understand that that could ever happen and and you know when you
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do come from like the Academy and and you know you've got a
7:50
little duty on our country and so you're like.
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I think that's a big part of your story too, Jeff.
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Is is you know so many people. When you get into that, 9798% of
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the people get indicted you. It was almost like in your soul
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that that you had to by principle move forward.
8:09
And I I want to get either. That either that or I'm the
8:12
least intelligent American citizen.
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But but yeah, you know it it's everybody's different.
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And so I would never judge anybody else for that.
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Certainly 99% of people think I'm crazy for doing that and I
8:27
believe they're probably right. But, you know, my son was 18 and
8:32
going off to college. And, you know, I sat down with
8:36
them and I sat down with my own father.
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And, you know, I said if it was a different circumstance, if I
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had small kids, I couldn't have done that.
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OK, I couldn't have done it. But, you know, hopefully, you
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know, I wanted to show leadership by example.
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And I knew it was going to be really painful, but I but I
8:55
always thought we'd win. It took seven years longer than
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I thought. But I think, you know, everybody
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goes through certain existential moments in their life where they
9:07
make such critical decisions that can make mammoth, you know,
9:12
differences right or left and and maybe that's the whole grand
9:16
design plan that we all go through some of them.
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I think it could because you know, it's the whole sliding
9:21
door thing. If I would have chosen this way
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or that way, what would have looked like?
9:25
Well, talking about what things would have looked like what?
9:28
Take us back a little bit, Jeff. We're Where were you as a kid
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and growing up and parents and siblings and that.
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Oh, the quick, quick boring story is I grew up in Dayton,
9:39
OH. My dad was civil service for the
9:42
Air Force. My mom worked in the service
9:45
department at Sears. You would call up and scream at
9:48
her when she said back then that before weeks till they come out
9:51
to repair your refrigerator and and and I played sports all my
9:56
life and I was very lucky to get a congressional nomination and a
10:02
basketball scholarship to the Air Force Academy.
10:05
And so my first question was where is that That's in
10:08
Colorado. Where's that.
10:11
But I went out there it was an incredibly challenging
10:14
experience. But I I made the greatest
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friends that are all still part of my consulting firm right now.
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I love. That about your story.
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I love that. About your story, Lifelong
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trench trenches, 35 years. And so when I would cry about
10:33
how miserable I was there, my parents would always say it's
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one of those things that after you do it you think it was a
10:40
really good thing to do in the Air Force treated me amazingly
10:44
well. I worked on the stealth fighter
10:46
program that and and so and they paid for my education of course.
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So I I had been an incredibly lucky guy that, you know, has
10:58
really gotten a lot of benefits. And so, you know, I was just, I
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think I was very fortunate by the time I got to my Black Swan
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event, I had been very trained with all kinds of success and
11:12
all kinds of disappointments in sports, military, academics,
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entrepreneurial. So you know, I believe kind of
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my path was to be prepared to be able to handle.
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Do you think because you know you being an athlete and and
11:28
playing sports you both of you and I played sports.
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How do you. I often think that that figuring
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out how to win, being on a team, the ups and downs in the locker
11:41
room. I I also think that somehow
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feeds into entrepreneurship too. What?
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What's your feelings about that? Absolutely.
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You know, all the way through. I I never forget the day at Fort
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Dix, New Jersey Federal Correctional Institution.
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I walked into the gym for for to play basketball and I was able
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to borrow someone's shoes, you know, 2 sizes too small and all
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that. And I'm lacing up my shoes
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there. I am one of like 1000 people in
12:19
there and I'm probably the only demographic of of my same
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demographic. And I said to myself, self, hey,
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we did this before. We're back at zero.
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We're just starting again. We proved ourselves before we're
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going to do it again. And I think that is the
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entrepreneurial thing that just says, hey, I can start something
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from zero. OK Yeah.
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Yeah. And I think I always say to
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Cole, my son, you know, the only reason we know all these
12:52
business things that people like to ask us, How do you know that
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it's purely learning? By doing?
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Yes. And, you know, there's no rocket
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science doing this, but if you do it next time, you're going to
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know. And you can help a whole bunch
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of other people do it too. So true.
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And I I think that, you know, just doing it, you know, a lot
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of people will will keep learning and learning and
13:15
learning, but they're afraid to go out and just do it.
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And I, you know, I think that's one of the incredible things
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about your story which I think is going to be so helpful for
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people to read your book. You know it.
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For some people, it's hard for them to wrap their mind around,
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you know, going from zero to a billion and then going to 0.
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But then having it in your DNA to say, you know what, they
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didn't take my brain. I can, I can recreate.
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I know how I built it. I know how to build, but let's
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let's go back a little bit. So you you get into the the
13:49
military naval world, you build in some really good friendships.
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How does how do things progress for you?
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Because, you know, a lot of people just go to the military,
14:00
they stay into it, they get ranked and they move on.
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And we had the Gulf War experience.
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What were you thinking at that time as as in that time period
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in your life? Were you thinking, I'm going to
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stay in this military world or were you thinking, I'm getting
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out, I'm going to go create? What was what was going on?
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You know, I have to go back to my father who grew up without a
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father, extremely poor in the steel mills of Johnstown, PA,
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who basically then taught himself everything from that
14:31
point forward in real estate, stocks, things like that, you
14:36
know, And and for the teeny little bit of extra money we
14:39
had. So I had a lawn mowing business
14:43
and a snow shoveling business and I and I saved up $500 and I
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bought my first stock with Cedar Fair, which which how would you
14:52
admit Jeff at that time? Yeah, like 615, because at 16, I
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wanted to buy a car, right, in Ohio.
15:02
So by the grace of God, super pure luck.
15:05
This stock flight almost double s.
15:08
I cash it in. I go to client, lawn mowing.
15:11
Client of mine has this Ford Firebird 1975 Firebird in the
15:16
garage. And I'm like, hey, how much you
15:19
want for that Firebird? And he said he was a Air Force
15:24
guy moving. So I'll take 500 bucks.
15:26
I said done. I'll be right back.
15:28
Got it. So from that moment forward, I
15:30
was hooked on investing. I was hooked on wealth
15:33
management and you know as opposed to one other occupation
15:39
is the oldest occupation in the world making other people money.
15:44
You you're always going to be successful.
15:46
You're, you know you can do it 100 different ways.
15:48
And so I really enjoyed that part of the business that where,
15:53
you know, I could help you in, in the how it works, which you
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know, people think, you know all the negative effects, 98% of all
16:02
financial people are the greatest and most ethical human
16:06
humans on the world in the world.
16:08
And they realize the more people you help the more you prosper
16:13
also. And so it was, it was just a
16:16
concept that aligned with me and I was just again, so lucky to
16:21
get in a business that was like perfectly aligned for what I
16:26
wanted to do, how did? You get in it.
16:29
So I got my MBA, William and Mary.
16:32
I was able to get out of the Air Force every about five years.
16:35
And and again, I always said, hey, if you have an F15, you
16:37
need a guy back. I'll be back anytime.
16:41
And I and I became a rookie stockbroker and at a firm called
16:46
a Week for Security who eventually got bought out 10
16:50
times. And I said to the manager, I
16:53
said so, so how do I get paid? He's like, you know, you can
16:56
make as much as you want. You know, you just got to make
17:00
it. And I said whoa, whoa, whoa.
17:01
You mean there's like no limit on the amount of money I can
17:05
make if you started laughing. And he said absolutely not.
17:10
And so from that moment forward, I cold called every human in in
17:16
the world and asked them to come in for a meeting and do a
17:19
financial plan. And so I was the king of the
17:22
$100 a month into a mutual fund and everybody else was wealthy
17:27
and new business people. And I was 27 years old and
17:30
didn't have a dollar. But the the the difference there
17:35
is I opened up, you know, 10 times the accounts anyone else
17:39
did. I had to because they were so
17:41
small. And then years later, that's
17:45
what made it so huge. Wow.
17:47
And I think it's I think it's somewhat fascinating too when
17:52
you're in your 20s and you know sales and somebody telling you
17:58
it's Commission. But if you feel that vibe, it's
18:01
kind of like being in sports. You know you got a scoreboard.
18:04
It doesn't matter how old you are.
18:06
If you play, you play good, you're on the court.
18:09
It it, it has the kind of rhythm and and feel of that sports
18:13
world of hey, if you're 27 years old and you can make the calls,
18:17
you can make whatever you want. You just got to go out and do
18:20
it. If you get good at it, they
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don't care if you're 252730. Eight.
18:24
No, no, no. I I had some great mentors.
18:28
Part of my couple of books talks about, you know, being lucky
18:33
enough to have great mentors, whether that's a grandfather or
18:37
a business guy or a coach or a or a Lieutenant in the military
18:43
makes a huge difference. And so we used to stay in the
18:47
military. The Lieutenant should listen to
18:50
the generals, you know, and learn from their mistakes that
18:53
they don't have to go make the same one.
18:56
So same thing in business and. And so one of the reasons I like
19:00
to write some of the books is to try to give out that wisdom that
19:05
was given to me, because a lot of people aren't fortunate
19:08
enough to run into those kinds of people, and so they don't.
19:12
They don't know a. Lot of people are afraid to ask,
19:14
too. I think you know, the the the
19:17
idea of humbling yourself and say, hey, I don't know all the
19:19
answers, but he does. He's doing it.
19:22
And that guy that's usually doing it usually wants to tell
19:25
you about it, 'cause he's pretty proud of the fact that he's
19:28
figured it out. And if he tells you what he's
19:31
doing, and you can put and implement that into what you do,
19:35
it's like getting the answers to the test before the test.
19:37
Exactly, exactly. So mentors are huge.
19:41
Mentors are huge. OK, so you get in, You can start
19:45
creating all these accounts. When does it dawn on you, Jeff?
19:50
I wonder if I could just go start my own thing.
19:54
Well, actually the, the CEO and the owners of the firm came to
19:59
me and said like, hey, you know, soon you're going to be going
20:03
doing your own thing, You're transferring to Merrill Lynch
20:06
and maybe getting a big check. Yep.
20:08
So why don't we help you create your own firm and again who
20:13
would ever who would ever get that break.
20:15
I mean that's a fuck that would never happen And and gosh I was
20:19
just like blown away and so I did and they helped me create
20:23
it. I cleared through them still it
20:25
was a big win win and that's how we did it the whole time.
20:29
And and again, these were really smart people and I I, you know,
20:34
I could have never figured it out on my own and I hired one
20:37
person and then a couple of months later I have enough money
20:40
to buy to hire another person and and soon we had 100 people.
20:46
And it became a a nice big company that I can tell by just
20:52
reading around the edges that it had a really good culture too.
20:55
The people that were you had. That was that was our whole
20:58
thing. You know, we we were a big Jack
21:01
Welch fan and we wanted to hire a players, help the BS become AS
21:07
and help the CS go find another place that they can be happy
21:11
having another opportunity. Yeah.
21:14
And you know, we did all kinds of crazy stuff to build that
21:19
kind of culture. And and you know what?
21:22
I was also a huge believer, hire a bunch of people much smarter
21:25
than myself and that really worked and give them incredible
21:31
opportunities, just like the opportunities I was given and.
21:35
And so, yeah, it grew really fast and it averaged 36% growth
21:39
a year for almost 2 decades. Yeah, it was recognized that way
21:44
nationally, one of. The fastest growing.
21:46
Yeah, very fortunate very fortunate.
21:48
Great group of people and man you know and what you know
21:53
besides the crazy nuclear make meltdown of of everything you
21:57
know that was my deepest guilt that you know I kept.
22:01
I always said like why do they have to kill the golden goose.
22:05
You know, if it if it was me they wanted to take, you know,
22:09
shoot the head off, fine, but don't kill the company.
22:14
Because so many lives. So many lives.
22:17
We supported every charity on the plant.
22:20
You know every weekend we're running these ten KS and
22:23
building the houses and Big Brothers Big Sisters and it just
22:28
hurts so many people. What what what people don't see
22:32
is the propagating effect of, you know, you take away all this
22:36
income, all these kids college, all these charities, all these
22:40
communities. And so that was always, that's
22:44
my biggest regret and and you know, I really, I know it may
22:48
sound silly to some, but I believe we will eventually
22:51
rebuild it and restore, you know, a very large number of
22:56
stakeholders that were part of that.
22:59
Well, let's go into when the nightmare landed because it it's
23:05
interesting to me you're talking about how you were helping the
23:10
community and you were wanting to be seen as the company that
23:14
was leading change. And the there one change that
23:18
happened was you you got contacted by this Regulatory
23:22
agency and you were thinking, well they're contacting us
23:25
because we're the good guys. They they want to see us as the
23:27
beta site for you know showing everyone else how to be good.
23:32
And you guys just start giving them this information as if
23:36
we're all in this together and then it turns.
23:40
Right, right. We we had basically a spotless
23:44
you know, compliance record all those years, which is very rare
23:47
and and probably a little lucky. So they approached us to do the
23:52
FCC and FINRA to do a joint exams and audit to be more
23:57
efficient. And so they called me because we
24:00
were all those different things. We're like 8 different companies
24:03
in one and and me again, really dumb business mistake on my
24:10
part. I'm like absolutely.
24:13
You know what a lot of that is narcissism and wanting to be
24:17
important and wanting to say like oh it came to us we're the
24:21
best. OK.
24:22
So certainly and and you know I now see like that's like the
24:26
dumbest thing you could ever do because it was just a fishing
24:28
expedition to find something or or many something and and it
24:33
went on forever you know three times longer it normally does
24:37
and and so it was almost like so pre planned that I just never
24:43
saw it coming up. My blog last week was about one
24:46
of our chapters about good CE OS need to see around corners and
24:52
you just need to figure that out.
24:54
And you need to, you need to be a little cynical.
24:56
And unfortunately now with all the companies we help, I'm like
25:00
the grouchy granddad, cynical guy.
25:05
Yeah. Don't know.
25:06
That's not what they mean. It's this, you know?
25:09
And it used to be the young, naive cheerleader, so hopefully
25:13
I haven't become too sick. No, I I would say that you're
25:15
definitely balanced stuff, 'cause you don't lose, you don't
25:17
lose that in your DNA, but you get, you get called in Jeff and
25:25
and you you talk about this doesn't feel good.
25:28
This is this sounds they're bringing you to a meeting and
25:32
all of a sudden it's like this this sounds like things are
25:36
going in the opposite direction. What?
25:38
What was going through the steps in your mind at that time?
25:43
Well, I think as as we all know when when we lied to our parents
25:47
100 years ago, you know, if you are doing something wrong, you
25:52
always, you know, you get this pit in your stomach kind of
25:56
feeling. And I either was just so naive
26:01
or or there was nothing wrong that, you know, I just never had
26:04
that feeling. I just never thought no, I mean
26:06
there's nothing here. I I still believe that 1000%
26:10
today, there's nothing here. But the.
26:15
So when they bring you in and they start asking all these
26:18
questions and and they put a stack of 100 emails in front of
26:23
you and they pull out each one and they go, what do you think
26:27
your investment banker was trying to stay there?
26:31
And I would say, well, I don't know, you know, but there was
26:35
never one thing that ever caused me any concern.
26:39
So that's why I felt it just would be, you know, not to be
26:44
too dramatic but immoral and unethical for me to say that
26:49
these guys in our company did this or I did this because I
26:53
just never saw it throughout the whole event.
26:59
So Jeff, you get in, you get into and out of that meeting,
27:02
what's the next thing that starts happening with you and
27:04
the company? Well, I think as you were just
27:09
Speaking of, it goes into like a tornado and in in just everybody
27:17
and everything and you have so many people and so many
27:20
competing interests and it really does start to be this
27:26
like nightmare that you think this just really can't be
27:30
happening. And I'll fix this because that's
27:34
as entrepreneurs, captains of the team, you know, we're like
27:38
that's just another problem. And so that was the thing that
27:43
kind of kept me trying to think I could manage all this and find
27:48
the truth and the right answer and everybody will be back to
27:51
business. I remember even one time before
27:55
trial, I said to the attorneys like I was a president of YPO,
28:01
young president. And you know in that in that
28:04
it's a great organization. So if you need anything, what do
28:07
you do? You pick up the phone and you
28:09
call somebody and that's all part of the deal.
28:12
And so I said to them, this is crazy, who do I call?
28:17
And and I remember the attorney saying for this, there's no one
28:21
to call. And and that really kind of hit
28:23
me there like you were in the spider web, you were in the
28:28
system and and you know it is just a unbelievably system
28:36
system that. Well, it feels like the weight
28:38
of the world, I mean. It's the weight of the world.
28:40
Yeah. I for for a year there I had
28:44
about 9012 martinis, which I shouldn't have.
28:49
But that's just an honest answer, Yeah.
28:53
And you're just trying to, like, navigate this terribleness all
28:58
day, all night. Lawsuits start showing up all
29:03
powers of the night. I became good friends with the
29:06
sheriffs and all the servers, 'cause they were coming by so
29:10
many times. And what happens is it, you
29:13
know, I used to have this Porsche 944 that bought when I
29:16
was a Lieutenant, and I couldn't afford to repair it, so I had to
29:20
get rid of it. But when the timing belt goes
29:24
out in one of those cars, all the Pistons slammed together and
29:28
it's, you know a nightmare. And that's really how the the
29:31
analogy that I felt it was one thing breaks and then
29:35
everybody's competing interests going to start slamming into
29:39
each other and it's a free for all the other thing regulators
29:44
and prosecutors convince shareholders and stakeholders to
29:50
work against their best interests.
29:53
Yeah. Because they have a
29:55
accomplishment. It's not to help shareholders,
29:58
not to help stakeholders or boys or anything like that.
30:01
They're they have accomplished their mission.
30:03
So they convince all these people to do all these things
30:08
that were only to their great detriment.
30:11
And it, you know, it, it baffled me non-stop.
30:15
And I felt so sorry for these people being manipulated by the
30:19
system, which just kind of further reinforced that
30:23
everybody loses. It's really hard to explain that
30:26
to somebody if they've never kind of been through that or
30:30
they think that it's all there to take care of people.
30:34
And there's a lot. Rely on the government.
30:36
And there's a lot of fear, you know that once once there gets
30:39
this this momentum rolling and you've got a company and then
30:44
you've got the media and then you've got the the federal
30:46
government, all those things roll into people around you get
30:51
fearful because and it should be it actually they should be
30:54
fearful because it it really can land on them.
30:58
And so there there are, it's not just paranoia.
31:02
People who are around in this spinning world of of what's
31:08
going on at that time, anybody can be sucked in.
31:11
And so it really scares scares people to death.
31:14
Yeah, yeah. Even Even talk about in the
31:18
book, like even the fleet of attorneys and accountants, we
31:22
had that, as you know, as CEO, you're signing this right now.
31:26
You know, you rely on all these things, which which again is
31:29
another mistake that I made. I should have controlled a lot
31:33
more of that. But, you know, unfortunately,
31:37
they scatter like cockroaches when the kitchen light is turned
31:42
on once the feds show up because they know they're smarter than I
31:47
was and they know everybody could take a bullet.
31:51
And so they scatter even though you might have, you know,
31:55
employed them for the last 20 years.
31:58
It's because they know everybody can be hurt.
32:02
So how long does this whole thing take for you from the time
32:05
that you went to that meeting and the time that you're
32:09
starting to get these plea deals?
32:13
Yeah. What's your time like in your
32:16
life at that time? Yes.
32:18
It's like it's probably a two to two years, two to three years.
32:24
You know, it's a long process. We gave them 8000 emails to
32:29
review. No, I'm sorry, 800,000 emails
32:35
with you, they lost them all and then we had to recreate them
32:39
again and it was very long process.
32:43
But it's it's about a two to three-year time frame where
32:47
where you're living that nightmare and unfortunately you
32:51
know, you have all this incredible guilt and regret and
32:55
remorse for all the other people damaged by this.
32:59
And you know, I used to, I used to have this great fear that I
33:04
would die and and doing something stupid and on my
33:10
tombstone it would say, man, we thought he was a smart guy.
33:14
And you know, and at that time and at that time, you know, I
33:17
really feel that's not an irrational fear because I let
33:21
down so many people by not figuring out how to handle this
33:27
and win and save it. And you know, it's just God, you
33:32
have this unbelievable weight and and everybody believes you
33:36
should have that way. What were your attorneys saying?
33:38
Because you because you being a unique guy that didn't get
33:44
scared to his core and and and fall into the plea bargain.
33:50
They're not sure what to do with a guy like you, an animal like
33:53
you. Because they're not.
33:54
They don't. They don't go to trial and and
33:57
so when you're saying you're going to go to trial, what are
34:00
your, what are your attorneys telling you?
34:03
Right. Well, and and you know,
34:07
everything that we put in this latest book, 100% of it is
34:11
documented on the federal record because I didn't want to put
34:15
anything in there that was not true, of course, but also not
34:19
even exaggerated. So because, you know, when you
34:23
lose everything, all you have is the truth.
34:26
And that's like your foundation. And if you lose the truth, then
34:30
you've nothing left to stand on. So I was always the seven years
34:35
that I wrote over 500 motions and petitions with a #2 pencil
34:39
and a manual typewriter, I was always very careful to ensure
34:43
there's like not one iota of misrepresentation or
34:49
exaggeration because then you're, you're toast again,
34:52
right. So in the first meeting with the
34:56
attorneys, that criminal attorney, they said, hey, we
35:00
just took the last week or two and went through every piece of
35:04
evidence and we can't find one piece of evidence that you did
35:09
anything wrong. So you know, we just want to let
35:12
you know that. And I jumped out of my chair.
35:14
I was like. Yes, but I'm.
35:16
Excited Gallery. Finally somebody.
35:19
You can't believe in me. And so, you know, we just kept
35:25
on that path and every time we'd get another plea deal offer, I
35:28
would meet with all the attorneys and say is there
35:31
anything, have you seen anything?
35:34
There's got to be something, you know, I'm sure some crazy e-mail
35:37
and they will always say no. And then I would turn down the
35:40
plea offer. And so I was just so kind of
35:45
naive, very naive, that I believed I could talk to 12
35:51
reasonable people. Well, it.
35:54
I don't find that. I don't find that unbelievable
35:57
because if you are Aceo, you're you're into motivating people.
36:01
You're getting people to to understand your point of view
36:04
and what needs to be done. And this is our plan of action.
36:07
This is how we're going to do it and this is how everybody will
36:09
understand how to do it. Yeah, that doesn't seem like a
36:12
far away thought that you should be able to explain.
36:16
Did it at the time. Yeah, yeah.
36:20
Well, before we get into the trial, I want to recognize our
36:23
show sponsor, White Collar Support Nightmare Success is is
36:29
sponsored by the White Collar Support Group.
36:31
It's the world's first support group devoted to people
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37:01
Start here. So Jeff, once you realize that
37:06
you're going to step into that courtroom, I know there's a lot
37:09
of preparation, a lot of things that go into that.
37:11
And I that's that's a whole world that you know very few
37:16
people go into a federal courtroom and say I'm going to
37:18
fight in that time period were were were you walking in
37:24
thinking if I can just have my day in court we'll get this
37:28
cleared out. Yes, that's exactly right.
37:32
That's what I thought, and until 10 seconds into the beginning.
37:41
What happens? Well.
37:45
The the judge who was later removed from the case was
37:52
greatly censored by the appeals court for just like there was a
37:57
mission clearly there is the phone calls and there there is a
38:01
mission to destroy the defense and control the whole operation
38:07
and and the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals lays that out actually
38:11
have their language in the book. But this, my great
38:17
miscalculation, was saying I'm going to explain hedge fund
38:23
accounting to its Bureau of 12 very honorable, hard working
38:29
Newport News Shipyard citizens. And they spent every day putting
38:37
pictures on the big screens in the courtroom of my automobile.
38:41
Money spent. Lifestyle.
38:43
Yeah, vacations. They flew in the pit boss from
38:49
the Bellagio blackjack pit to tell them how much I spent on
38:56
blackjack and you know, and then it just took off from there, so
39:01
I think. It's interesting for people to
39:03
know what the amount of money that we were talking about in
39:07
this case shocked me because in the in the world that we were
39:12
talking about when things crashed, we were talking about
39:14
billions and billions and billions of dollars.
39:18
They were talking about a solar company that was overvalued by
39:24
the benefit of $140,000. That's right.
39:29
And that was in that same period, you know, we had about 8
39:33
million of fees. Yeah.
39:34
And so. So first some the reason I just
39:38
thought it was so fantastical was that for for that point OO
39:45
1% or whatever that is, I created a huge conspiracy to
39:51
manipulate all of the firm's management team, all of the
39:56
external valuation experts who did and the AICPA certified
40:04
auditing firm. So for that point OO1.
40:09
It you know I was pretty pretty masterful how it's.
40:12
Been masterful. So you get through this crazy
40:16
trial and it's like the movies, you the, the except I guess it's
40:24
it's something more like the movie.
40:25
How do you find out that the jury is having a difficult time
40:29
with the deliberation and they're hung up?
40:33
Well, we were in the courtroom and they came back and they
40:35
said, you know there's a number of the people that just can't
40:39
find any evidence to convict and the judge can stop and and
40:47
directed them. This is after about four or five
40:50
weeks, you know, of these guys being away from their lives and
40:54
their families and they were incredible people.
40:57
And so Friday, late night, he instructs them, you will be back
41:02
here Monday to start this all over and go through it again.
41:06
And, you know, you could see it in their faces.
41:08
And then Monday morning they came back and an hour or two
41:11
later and everybody's guilty so everybody could go home and back
41:16
to their lives. And you know what?
41:18
I don't blame them. I don't blame them.
41:19
It's such a crazy process that they had to get on with their
41:23
lives too. So you find out you're guilty,
41:27
they come up, they they they deem you guilty.
41:31
And I, you know, I What's the time period that you had between
41:37
that guilty verdict of finding out what your sentence was going
41:40
to be? Boy, that's a good question.
41:43
It's such a blur, you know it is a.
41:45
Blur. It was a blur to me and I didn't
41:46
go to trial. Yeah.
41:48
Maybe it's a month or two or I don't even know if it's.
41:50
Because you're like in no Man's Land.
41:53
Yeah. And my No Man's Land was
41:55
pleading guilty and then and then being sentenced and then
41:59
having two months to wait to find out where I was going to
42:04
go. Right.
42:05
You were waiting to find out what your sentence was.
42:09
You get pulled back in there. Did you have any idea that that
42:13
that they were going to have the type sentence that they had?
42:18
Well, an honest answer is, the attorney said, like, hey, if
42:21
everything goes terrible, you know, you've been looking at
42:23
like 10 years. So and so I I to, to their
42:28
credit, you know, that's what they told me.
42:30
So I knew that. I knew that, yes.
42:34
And then when they started the sentencing and and the the judge
42:39
went on a soliloquy for you know, 1/2 hour about automobiles
42:46
and houses and lifestyle which you know had nothing to do with
42:52
a solar company evaluation stock.
42:56
You know it's clearly it's clearly a constructed process.
43:00
It is an objective to strike fear into the mass public and
43:06
they accomplish it very well. And.
43:08
And one of the things which you've done such an incredible
43:12
job with, and I'd love to follow in your footsteps is, you know,
43:17
there's a hundred things about that process that are just
43:20
morally, ethically, logically wrong.
43:23
And I'm going to do everything I can for the rest of my life to
43:27
help make it better for other people.
43:29
Now, I'm a great supporter of of keeping crime off the streets
43:35
and all the violence and all those things, OK.
43:38
But I'm also a great supporter of what they teach you at the
43:42
Air Force Academy is ethics and fair.
43:45
And so it's just the whole process is designed to
43:49
accomplish an objective. And it again, not to get on too
43:52
much of our rant today, but the process from front to end.
43:58
It's just dumb. It accomplishes the exact
44:02
opposite of objective of what it says it's trying to accomplish.
44:07
So there's only two answers to that.
44:09
There's incompetence or that's not really the mission.
44:14
It can't be, can't be anything but that.
44:16
But if we want to make the world safer, we want to make the
44:20
market better. We want to help, you know,
44:23
people, rehabilitate, whatever that would be.
44:26
You would do the system 180° from what it is set up to.
44:32
Do you know that 100 times better than I?
44:35
Did well, I, I we both lived it. And I can't imagine though on
44:40
your journey going through that, going through the trial, going
44:47
back to sentencing, the judge comes out with the sentence and
44:54
what's what, what's what's going through your your mind at that
44:58
moment. Well, I'm still in the mode, as
45:02
I still have today. No problem.
45:05
We're going to fix this. We're going to do an appeal and
45:08
and I'm going to figure out how to do that appeal and I
45:12
guarantee this will be reversed. And so I never, I never had the
45:17
breakdown moment, actually. I one day talked to like a
45:24
counselor in Norfolk, VA. I only went one time, but all my
45:28
friends are like, man, you got to go.
45:31
This is crazy. And I said to him, I said, hey,
45:35
is it just some moment I'm going to like be walking down the
45:38
street and I'm just going to like fall on the ground and have
45:41
a heart attack and nervous breakdown?
45:45
And he said, no, he's like, no, I don't think you're ever going
45:48
to do that. And and I really never did have
45:51
that moment because it was all fight or flight.
45:56
And so I couldn't let myself accept the truth that I was
46:02
screwed. And this was all crumbled.
46:05
And they killed the golden goose.
46:07
And we lost a billion dollars. And all these people lost their
46:10
jobs and the shareholders lost their investment and the
46:13
stakeholders and the funds. And I just couldn't let myself
46:17
ever believe that I'm not going to fix that.
46:20
And I have to admit, that's the way I still look at the world
46:23
today, that I am eventually going to fix this.
46:28
And I think that's the only thing that has kept me going.
46:30
It's such a great mindset, Jeff, because you know there there's
46:34
so many wonderful statements in that movie Shawshank Redemption.
46:38
But one of them, you know, get busy living or get busy dying
46:42
right in prison, you find that there's that there is literally
46:45
only two paths on that. There's the people who've given
46:47
up and they've kind of, you know, you can see it in their
46:50
eyes and you can see that people are just trying to make it work
46:53
and and trying to see how to better themselves so that when
46:57
they get to the next step that they're better.
47:02
And and that's what you did. I I'm curious, when you found
47:07
out that you were going to a different type of prison, what
47:12
what was that like? I I can't.
47:14
You know, I went to Leavenworth, which everybody knows the name
47:17
of Leavenworth. But I was at a prison camp.
47:19
You didn't get that opportunity. Right.
47:24
Well, when you talk about kind of the survival type stuff is, I
47:31
kind of figured out I'm going to try to get stronger every day in
47:36
three areas, physically, intellectually and emotionally.
47:43
And if I can do that, maybe I'll be strong enough to get through
47:46
this and you know, physically not just for self-defense but
47:51
for serotonin and dopamine and all those things help you do
47:55
things intellectually. I read 26th of the classics and
48:01
you know when you come from the schools of engineering, you
48:04
know, I don't even know what a classic is.
48:06
So. So I told myself, hey, this, if
48:09
I this will be the only time in my life that I'll have this
48:12
opportunity to better myself in those things.
48:16
And then emotionally, I did a lot of city yoga and some
48:20
different things that that really helped take the edge off
48:26
the anger so that I could see through to positive activities
48:31
and not just be so angry. Those are great strategies you
48:35
just laid out there that. Really helped, You know, 1 foot
48:39
in front of the other every day. So you were, you were in this
48:45
place that is an arena that you would have never thought you
48:48
were going to be in. I'm sure that we don't want.
48:53
Everything is about, you know, how do you do your time, you
48:56
were locked in on really understanding how you could
49:01
unravel yourself from this legal mess, and you really became your
49:06
own attorney, didn't you? Right.
49:09
Well, you know, it helps. It helps when they take your
49:11
billion dollars so you don't have any more money before the
49:14
attorney. You figure it out.
49:17
Yeah, you're just of course me, but you know I got really lucky
49:20
and I knew of course I was going to have to try to figure this
49:22
out. But I just started helping other
49:25
guys and and we calculated at one time that I I filed over 300
49:31
motions for 300 other guys. That's incredible.
49:36
And and unfortunately at the beginning those guys probably
49:38
got a lousy deal on their chill house lawyer.
49:42
But you know, I got a little better, got a little better, you
49:44
know, and of course you never win anything, but you start
49:47
figuring it out and then and then we got a couple breaks, you
49:50
know, and we helped some guys and they got a little bit of
49:53
time off and we've got a little momentum going.
49:56
And then by helping them, I was really helping myself and you
50:00
know, such a great fundamental there.
50:04
And and then I started sending my own in and and you know, I
50:08
was able to reverse the first sentence and the appeals court
50:15
helped me a lot with that because it was just so insane,
50:18
the process of the trial. So, so that kind of started.
50:23
To build that had to be an unbelievable feeling.
50:26
How far along were you in your journey in prison when that
50:29
happened? Yeah.
50:30
Not, you know, not too far, maybe like four or five, six
50:34
months, something like that. And then and and because the
50:39
prosecutors, prosecutors knew how just ridiculous my trial
50:44
was, they had secretly prepared a second indictment, of course.
50:51
So when they took me back to Norfolk, the Magistrate Judge
50:55
said, well, as far as I'm concerned, Miss Martinovich is a
50:58
free man and I jumped out of my chair, started to walk out and
51:03
they're like, oh please, we. Got.
51:05
Another thing, we got something else.
51:07
So it was it was just another one that again I thought was
51:11
more fantastical than the 1st and and so they did another
51:18
crazy sentence thing. There it.
51:22
Where the punch, though? Where the judge said what?
51:25
A gut punch. I mean to to get that form and
51:29
and then they come right back around and say, Oh well, we've
51:32
got one more for you here. Yeah, And then So what they did
51:35
is they resentenced me and gave me two more years instead.
51:41
Thank you for playing. Yeah, see if you want to in.
51:44
Other words, in other words, if you come stand at a January 6th
51:50
type of rally, if you were there, we're going to hold you
51:54
in a Washington, DC jail for two years without ever trying you.
51:58
Just nobody else thinks about doing that.
52:02
And so when I went back to the law library with more time,
52:07
everybody said, yeah man, I told you, Jay, don't do that, Jay,
52:13
you can't defend yourself. They're just going to give you
52:15
more time. And so it works.
52:17
Totally works. So you end up eventually, you
52:23
get 22 reversals in the appeals court, you get moved, you get
52:30
moved around a lot, right? I well, I did a they kept me up
52:34
at the higher security prison counts.
52:37
I kept appealing and fighting it.
52:40
And I was very lucky. I sent, oh, a gazillion FOIA
52:44
request. Then one FOIA request comes back
52:48
showing the communication between the prosecutor's office
52:52
and the Bureau of Prisons, telling them to keep me there
52:57
even though I was supposed to be at a camp also.
53:01
And so I filed a federal, went to the law library and figured
53:05
out how to file a different kind of suit, filed it in New Jersey
53:08
court that day, and in six days later I was moved to a camp.
53:13
So I was very fortunate to get down to the camp which then
53:18
allowed me to be part of the CARES Act as you stated.
53:21
So I would have never been able to take advantage of all that.
53:25
If I didn't do. If I didn't do like 5 all the.
53:28
Things I had to do to get there. Yeah, and I think that's a great
53:32
lesson that I've tried to pay attention to is, you know, you
53:37
just got to keep doing 100 things because you never know
53:40
what's going to work. When I.
53:43
When I don't give up and when I won some of these appeals that
53:49
it was always the arguments or the grounds that I thought would
53:52
never win and the ones that I thought would really win 0
53:57
success. So I think you got to keep doing
54:01
like 100 things in parallel, and it's going to be the things you
54:05
never imagined that connect the dots that get you where the
54:11
universe wants you to eventually get to.
54:14
Interesting. Yeah, true though, yeah.
54:18
So, Jeff, you the craziness of the pandemic happens.
54:23
I can't even imagine being in prison in the pandemic, 'cause
54:26
they it, it gave the prison world such an easy way just to
54:31
lock everybody down, take away whatever we consider privileges,
54:34
like visits and telephones and yard time and all those things.
54:38
Those are all shut down. When do you find out that you
54:42
might have a possibility of getting out?
54:46
Well, with the first step back and you know, and they made a
54:51
list. I don't know if you remember
54:53
this, but they made a list. They told us we were going home.
54:59
We all called our families and and everybody and and everybody
55:04
went crazy and a week later they came back and said Oh no, that
55:08
wasn't the right list. You're not going home.
55:11
And so it was, yeah, that was kind of terrible.
55:15
So I kept not being on the list, not being on the list.
55:20
And then eventually when they tried to do a better job of
55:23
getting people to go there, there's a there's a crazy story
55:29
of Ashley has a friend of ours, Joy Talley who's a really famous
55:34
psychic in Virginia Beach, VA, had said to Ashley, hey, Jeff's
55:41
going to go home next Friday and he's going to be the second name
55:45
called on the list. I swear this is a true story.
55:49
And and she told me that on the phone and and then that next
55:54
Friday I was on the phone with her and I said hold on one
55:58
second and my name was called the second one on the list and
56:03
that I was going home. That was a really crazy.
56:06
Thing to me and I don't want to skip over the deal with Ashley
56:09
either because of you not to jump too far ahead, but when did
56:17
she come into your life? You know, of course, when the
56:22
nuclear meltdown was happening, the marriage, you know,
56:26
dissolved. It's totally my fault, Totally
56:30
my fault. So late.
56:33
Ashley had actually worked at our mortgage company.
56:36
We had and we were good friends and and she was a good a player.
56:43
Well, I was in Fort Dix prison for about a year and then all of
56:47
a sudden I get this love letter one day.
56:51
And it said, hey, I've never told you this, and I know you
56:54
won't believe this, but I love you and I'm going to stick with
56:58
you and I'm going to help you this.
57:00
Is a great story for Valentine's Day.
57:02
Jeff, this is. We're recording this on
57:04
Valentine's Day. Yeah.
57:06
Yeah. And and I'm like, Oh my God,
57:08
this is crazy. And she to her credit now, of
57:13
course she thought, you know, of course his appeal, his appeal is
57:17
going to be overturned. He'll be home soon, of course.
57:19
To her credit, she drove 7 hours to come visit me once a month in
57:24
that hell of visitors and in a high security prison every
57:29
single month for seven years until she picked me up on that
57:33
final day and. I'm glad we did not leave that
57:36
out because those those type of things are the things that keep
57:42
the glue of sanity together. And and it almost helps you keep
57:47
a, you know, straddling offense to the outside world to know
57:50
that somebody's out there that cares, somebody's out there that
57:53
is helping you plug into the outside world.
57:56
You know you and I talked about this Jeff when we were off the
57:59
the interview but you know my wife was the same she she, I
58:03
always say she should have worn a Cape.
58:05
I mean as a as a superhero and and she came every weekend as a
58:10
four and a half hour drive one way And I often think you know
58:16
we always talk about this on the show that when the someone goes
58:19
to prison the family goes to prison.
58:21
And my three daughters saw how how Julie was handling a
58:29
unbelievable nightmare and how strong she was.
58:32
And I I think all those things when something happens like what
58:35
we've gone through Jeff there's so many things that pop up that
58:38
you are thankful for or grateful for and and that Ashley story
58:45
that you just told was so incredible.
58:47
She just comes right out, you get a love letter and she
58:50
connects with you from there on out, I mean.
58:52
Yeah, I mean, I as I tell all my friends, some things in the
58:57
universe just cannot be explained.
58:59
Yep, Yep. Yeah.
59:02
OK, so here's here's you're you finally find out from the
59:06
psychic that you're getting out. Yeah, I.
59:10
Swear. That's true.
59:12
So funny. But I would believe it too.
59:15
But what's in your mind? What are you thinking?
59:18
OK, I'm getting out. I've been in for a while.
59:23
So not just this hasn't just hasn't been a bad week.
59:26
Summer camp you've been in for seven years.
59:29
What what's what's the Jeff thinking now?
59:33
You know the the builder, the visionary, the guy that's always
59:37
on the move, that's always positive, the glass half full.
59:41
What are you thinking about this?
59:42
Getting close to the door to get out?
59:45
Yeah, I'm thinking about, you know, I have to do an
59:49
unbelievably good job of being a great person for Ashley, my son,
59:55
Cole and and my my mother and and so, you know, it's I, you
1:00:04
know, you have such guilt that I left them for all that time,
1:00:07
especially when you're the leader, you know, and you're the
1:00:10
provider. So there's so much, yeah,
1:00:13
there's so much to make up for there.
1:00:16
And then also of course like. OK, I have zero money.
1:00:19
I don't even have a driver's license.
1:00:22
I don't have a bank account, of course, but that was a nightmare
1:00:24
trying to get those things. And so I I really started to
1:00:28
understand how difficult it is for inmates to, you know,
1:00:33
reintegrate. Reentries is is a whole nother
1:00:37
nightmare that you want to. Step through and and you know I
1:00:39
had all these tools that you know available to me and people
1:00:43
available to me when most guys don't.
1:00:45
It's it's it's pretty much impossible for them.
1:00:49
So the the day I was home, the next day Brian Redeems, who was
1:00:55
my roommate at the Air Force Academy and has been extremely
1:01:00
successful in business after 20 years in the Air Force, hops and
1:01:04
his jets and flies out to Norfolk from San Diego and says
1:01:11
Oh my God man, I've got all these problems in these
1:01:14
businesses and I need you to merge these four companies
1:01:16
together. And I mean, I mean, it's just
1:01:19
incredible luck. On my part and I have.
1:01:23
These guys, yeah. And you know, they, you know,
1:01:27
because they were high up in business, so they understood the
1:01:31
reality of how these things happen.
1:01:34
And if people came out of the woodwork, like I just can't even
1:01:37
begin to describe, gave me opportunities.
1:01:41
You know, I would get up at 4:00 AM every day and and I'd work
1:01:45
for four hours before I go to my halfway house job, you know.
1:01:48
And I was just doing all these things for free for people that
1:01:52
eventually came back to me with a lot more opportunities now.
1:01:57
So it was just kind of a whirlwind.
1:01:59
I was, I was a little bit of a basket case.
1:02:03
I actually will tell you an honest answer is pretty much
1:02:08
every night still today she she wakes up to me screaming.
1:02:16
So I still have to do much better with all that.
1:02:21
There's still a tremendous amount of fear and anger.
1:02:24
So even though on the outside I I do a pretty good job during
1:02:29
the day, you can't really, you can't fake it at night while
1:02:32
you're sleeping. That's right.
1:02:34
But we're going to figure that out.
1:02:35
We're going to figure that out. Well, and I I think it's a real
1:02:39
testament to you that the guys that you were with when you guys
1:02:43
were young and going through this stuff with the Naval
1:02:46
Academy and and in the military, they wanted you.
1:02:51
They they believe in you and and and wanted help.
1:02:56
You know that that's the thing, the going through everything
1:02:59
that you've gone through, Jeff, you're that much better to help.
1:03:03
You know you're that much better of ACEO.
1:03:06
You're that much better of understanding and and having a
1:03:09
different perception of of things because of what you've
1:03:13
been through. And I think that's this extra
1:03:17
seasoning you have now is you didn't lose the people that that
1:03:22
really, truly believed in you and they still want that that
1:03:26
Jeff that that knows how to make things work.
1:03:29
But you also are a person now that have gone through all this.
1:03:33
So you're the same, Jeff, but different from the fact that
1:03:36
you've experienced some things that you would never have
1:03:39
thought you would have experienced.
1:03:41
I think it's, it's maybe you've had the same moments where back
1:03:45
when we were, you know, so successful in making so much
1:03:48
money. I wonder, would I have taken the
1:03:51
time out of my selfish day, you know, to help these other guys
1:03:57
as much as they've helped me? Yeah, you know, I hope I would.
1:03:59
But you know, you never know until you're put in these
1:04:01
situations. Well, and I think the other
1:04:03
thing that doesn't go away, you're what, three years, is it
1:04:09
three years out, four years out, four years out.
1:04:11
Four, Almost 4. Yeah, I I find myself because
1:04:14
I've I've got grandsons now that are twins that are about 1819
1:04:18
months old. There's, there's it's there's
1:04:21
family moments that I still have been out seven years.
1:04:24
And because of what you and I experienced, I still get that
1:04:28
feeling sometimes just silently to myself when the family's
1:04:31
around and things are good as it's just I'm just so glad I'm
1:04:35
here. I'm just feel really grateful
1:04:39
that I'm here. I'm here because I wasn't.
1:04:42
Yeah. Yeah.
1:04:44
Yeah. And the the the one of the
1:04:48
unbelievable miracles so is. So now I have the great
1:04:53
opportunity every day to work with my son Cole and he's 29 and
1:04:58
we do 100 different things together.
1:05:00
And I mean that's the greatest gift I could ever have.
1:05:03
And Ashley and I now have little 2 year old Carly, which which is
1:05:10
a miracle. And you know, so that's a way
1:05:13
that I'm just we got to force ourselves to be strong for
1:05:17
another 20 years. But it's a true story.
1:05:21
It's a true story that after we selected the name and and you
1:05:26
know, like a month later or something, Ashley looked up,
1:05:30
what does Carly mean? And she started to cry, 'cause
1:05:34
it says it means Freeman Oh my God, which is unbelievable.
1:05:39
I didn't know that. Yeah, I.
1:05:41
It's my little daughter's name, Carly.
1:05:43
Oh, is that right? Yeah, so that's amazing.
1:05:46
That is amazing. Let her know that.
1:05:49
Wow. I will.
1:05:52
So Jeff, what are you doing now? Well, I I've been really
1:05:58
fortunate. This corporate law firm here in
1:06:01
downtown Norfolk has partnered with us and I have my four or
1:06:06
five Air Force Academy guys and basically you know what we try
1:06:11
to do is help company. And certainly so I always say
1:06:15
like look who would be better to help you because nobody, no
1:06:18
human has made more mistakes than I have.
1:06:21
And so we really just enjoy small companies, CE OS, you know
1:06:28
CFOs and helping them grow, helping them do things that you
1:06:33
know maybe see around corners. And so we're doing tons of stuff
1:06:39
like that and that comes with 100 other.
1:06:41
But it's such a great thing, Jeff, because you are, you know,
1:06:44
you're speaking, you're writing books, you're helping companies
1:06:47
see around the corners and and from your experience, you can
1:06:53
help people. You know, you have a unique
1:06:55
ability to have been a big CEO of a big company, losing and
1:07:00
building back. And so some of the things that
1:07:02
you're talking to them about are things that you are going
1:07:05
through as you're building yourself back into this world,
1:07:09
and that even makes it more authentic.
1:07:11
Yeah I you know I'm I'm a huge Tony Robbins fan.
1:07:16
We've been you know we haven't been able to travel to a
1:07:18
conference but we've done a couple four day emergence I make
1:07:22
I make all the family and friends come over the house and
1:07:25
don't let them leave till it's all over.
1:07:28
But you know, I think why he is so terrific is everything he
1:07:33
teaches you. It's through a real story
1:07:37
whether it's him or, you know, client.
1:07:40
And So what I'm trying to do in the book and then I'd love to
1:07:45
travel the country and help all these corporations and
1:07:49
organizations and and I I try to teach every lesson with real
1:07:57
stories and and I guess if you've gone through a whole
1:08:00
bunch of crazy stuff, there's plenty of material to be able to
1:08:05
teach us. And I think, you know, for the
1:08:07
last 4000 years man has sat around the fire and told stories
1:08:11
and so I think that's how people learn that and.
1:08:14
I think it's they say when you tell a story people turn on a
1:08:17
movie in their brain and and I think that how stories work so
1:08:19
well and they can analogize it and fit themselves into the
1:08:23
story well. I always ask people this Jeff,
1:08:26
at the end of the interview is is after everything that you've
1:08:29
gone through and you've been through one heck of a journey
1:08:32
and you're you survived and now you're thriving back out into
1:08:37
the new world that you are in. What do you think's your
1:08:42
greatest take away for the listeners out there?
1:08:50
You know, it's probably pretty cliche to say, you know, don't
1:08:53
ever give up and resilience and perseverance because there's so
1:08:56
many strong humans out there that have done that.
1:09:02
I'm just, I'm just happy that, you know, I was maybe as strong
1:09:07
as them. So but I think, I think it all
1:09:11
comes down. Of course you got to be positive
1:09:13
or otherwise you give up, but it's it's got to come down to
1:09:18
you got to get through these things by thinking through a
1:09:20
plan. Not that it's always going to
1:09:22
work and you might have to change it 100 times but you need
1:09:26
a strategy, you need tactics and you need to work on the holistic
1:09:32
thing. You do need physical,
1:09:34
intellectual, emotional, and and you got to think, what am I
1:09:40
going to do today that's going to be the most productivity for
1:09:45
look at the end of the night, did I make forward progress?
1:09:49
And you can't wait the day. And then again, 'cause it's
1:09:52
going to be the things you don't think that make the huge
1:09:57
difference and you'll never see it.
1:10:00
We're not smart enough or we're not granted the power enough to
1:10:04
figure that out. So you got to do so much stuff
1:10:07
that you look like a Tasmanian devil next to all the people
1:10:11
around you, and that's the only way you know you're going to get
1:10:15
out the other end of the tunnel. So I don't know if I explained
1:10:19
that too clearly. No, no, you and you.
1:10:21
What's great about it is you've lived it and that's.
1:10:22
Your story and your resilience and your determination and your
1:10:26
positive attitude and mindset is actually how you survived.
1:10:30
And that's a testament to how you're wired, Jeff.
1:10:33
And I think only great things are going to continue to happen
1:10:35
for you because you're not going to be thrown down in a ditch.
1:10:39
But if you are, you're going to get out.
1:10:42
Well, we have. We have a lot of people.
1:10:44
That still help and a lot of things to restore and you know
1:10:49
I'd love I'd love 10 years from now for it to be a good 60
1:10:53
minutes story that that you know we really did make it back for
1:10:58
everybody and all the causes. So that's that's our goal got to
1:11:02
have a goal. I love it.
1:11:03
I love it. For those out there that are
1:11:06
looking for that book, go to Amazon and it is I think it's
1:11:14
it's it came out January. What was it?
1:11:17
14th or 16th? And it's.
1:11:19
I think so when? Let's see, let's see what the
1:11:25
when, when, not if and just. Just one more is the.
1:11:30
Other book I was looking for both books there.
1:11:32
Yeah. When Not if.
1:11:33
And just one more and if you're looking for help in the business
1:11:39
World Jam Accelerator LLC, check that out.
1:11:44
And and Jeff and I, I am so impressed with your story.
1:11:50
And hey if anybody's looking for my book, go to Amazon and it's
1:11:55
an awesome book Brent and Brent, thank.
1:11:58
You so much for what you're doing for everybody.
1:12:01
I mean it's, you know, I just learned about it a little bit
1:12:04
ago and what a huge impact that had and so please.
1:12:10
Keep it going and. All of us, you know, let us know
1:12:14
how we can help you on that mission.
1:12:16
It's an incredible mission. I appreciate that Jeff and the
1:12:19
the. Anybody.
1:12:21
Don't forget to to to follow like subscribe.
1:12:24
That all is helping. If you got time or review on
1:12:27
Apple somehow puts the show on steroids.
1:12:29
I appreciate that. Go to brentcassie.com that's
1:12:33
with a TYADY. We spell it wrong as I.
1:12:37
Oh, and I wanted to give a shout out to Homestead Financial for
1:12:39
giving me this great podcast here.
1:12:41
And if anybody's got home mortgage needs, get to Greg
1:12:44
after you have. As I used to say when I was
1:12:46
writing my emails back and forth from prison.
1:12:49
Stay strong. I'll do the same.
1:12:51
Jeff, thank you so much for being here today.
1:12:53
I appreciate it. Greg.
1:12:55
Thank you so much. I'm your success.
1:12:57
In and out.