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Sunset Blvd. · The Next Reel Film Podcast

• 0:04
  Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
• 0:05
  Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
• 0:06
  Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
• 0:09
  Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
• 0:11
  Pete Wright: Sunset Boulevard is over.
• 0:13
  Alright, mister Demille. I'm ready for my close-up. Sunset Boulevard, Andy, is this your favorite movie of all time ever?
• 0:26
  Andy Nelson: It's a great movie. It's not my favorite movie of all time, but I really love this one.
• 0:30
  Pete Wright: Me too. I can't wait to talk about the fatal flaw in the movie for me. Oh. Because I love so much about it, and it has a fatal flaw.
• 0:36
  Andy Nelson: Interesting. Interesting. I know.
• 0:39
  Pete Wright: I didn't even see it coming. I didn't see it coming this time around, and I I I just went when it happened.
• 0:46
  Andy Nelson: I shuddered. So you've never noticed it before, and now something Now has it bothers me. Wow. Interesting. I know what
• 0:55
  Pete Wright: you think about that. Yeah. I know. Amazing how things change. That fatal flaw is not does not involve Norma Desmond.
• 1:02
  Not even a little bit.
• 1:03
  Andy Nelson: Is it something that is going to affect your ratings and your overall feeling of the film?
• 1:08
  Pete Wright: Nah. Probably not.
• 1:09
  Andy Nelson: Okay. Okay. So it's a quibble.
• 1:11
  Pete Wright: Fatal fatal might be a strong strong word.
• 1:15
  Andy Nelson: So it's a not quite fatal quibble is really what we're looking at.
• 1:18
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Well, I didn't wanna say quibble because I feel like you cornered the market on Quibble, and I need my own I need to brand my own thing. Fatal flaw.
• 1:25
  Andy Nelson: So I'm starting to a
• 1:26
  Pete Wright: little strong. Ratchet back as we get to it. We'll see.
• 1:30
  Andy Nelson: I'll land up. By the end, let's see where land with it. Alright. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:35
  This is the final film ending our series, the platinum performances, the nineteen fifty best actress Oscar race series. Here we are looking at Sunset Boulevard. We talked about All About Eve, way back in our Betty Davis series. We've now added Born Yesterday and Caged. And finally, we're getting to Gloria Swanson's performance here as Norma Desmond, the silent movie star pushing for a return, not a comeback, but a return in Sunset Boulevard.
• 2:04
  Billy Wilder, 1950. Yes. Here we are.
• 2:08
  Pete Wright: Okay. I we have to start with Swanson, I think. She's the she's the biggest thing in this this movie, so that's exciting. What do you think of her performance?
• 2:20
  Andy Nelson: It's a fantastic performance. And I it's interesting because Gloria Swanson I mean, the story of her, obviously, I think is just as much a part of this film as just her performances because Gloria Swanson was a Paramount actress in the silent era who had been directed by Cecil B. DeMille, who had the studio's six biggest pictures back to back at the time. Like, she was a a megastar that did fade from the scenes, and this was in some way kind of a comeback film. So it's very kind of meta, textual the way that this story is told.
• 2:57
  And it's interesting. I I've seen few of her films. I've seen queen Kelly, which she actually that's the film that she's screening, which is interestingly directed by Eric von Stroheim, who plays, Max, the butler in this film. I've only seen that. I've seen this, and then I've seen airport 75.
• 3:17
  So I've seen very few of her films. But she was huge in the silent era, and I think she's interestingly and purposefully, the way I read it, pulling some of the silent performative modalities, like the big movements and things like that, the gestures and the eyes and the facial expressions into her performance as if that's kind of become the way that she just is now. Because I think you could read this film like, oh, she's just playing it so big. But I think I read it all as very intentional and designed to be this this, performer. And so it was a strong performance, and I think she handles the ups and downs.
• 4:01
  She definitely has her downs as she's dealing with suicidal thoughts and struggling with her emotional attachment that she's grown with Joe, the screenwriter. And so it all plays, and then leading into kind of the madness that she falls into at the end. I think it's I mean, I I really find that her performance is incredibly strong and and well worth the nomination. I thought that she's just fantastic.
• 4:26
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I think you're I think you're absolutely right. I mean, she is the the sort of textbook example of if you sit too close to the TV, your eyes will stick that way. She was in so many silent movies that her face just stuck in giant performative mode all the time, and, I love it. I love it.
• 4:44
  I love it. I love it. I think her over the topness is what makes the the performance work. But the other thing about this movie is just how much to your point, how much reality bleeds into the movie itself, not the fact that we have, you know, so many pieces of stunt casting. I mean, the the the sequence where Max and Norma where we're watching Norma's old films are films that Stroheim himself directed
• 5:15
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. That's what I saying.
• 5:16
  Pete Wright: From a film yeah. What that she was in that wasn't finished. Right. Kun Kaili, you said that. And and I I find that so extraordinarily moving that that is how they chose to make this movie.
• 5:31
  Like, it's it's practically a documentary. It is one of those things that I I just found myself really deeply touched by this time around. It it is one of those movies I think that that works on so many levels, but the more you know, the the more touching it becomes and the more sad for her career, for her life this becomes.
• 5:52
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Which and it's interesting because, you know, in the real world, she had kind of wasn't getting the calls as much anymore. So she had kind of moved to New York and was just doing her own thing, working in TV or whatever came up. And she got the call to do this. And after this, the only offers that she was then getting are similar characters of, you know, these kind of past their prime older performers and things like that.
• 6:19
  And people were surprised when they would meet her because after seeing this, they expected her to be this character. Like, it was so meta that they thought that that it was just this is how Gloria Swanson was. And they're like, oh, she's actually really nice and all of this stuff. And so it was a real surprise to people. And I think that's you know, we talked about this a little bit when we talked about Born yesterday a few episodes back, how Judy Holiday became viewed as being this this blonde dingaling, and everybody just kind of expected that.
• 6:51
  And those were the roles that they were getting her, that she was getting offers for. And so it's it's interesting how these performances were so strong that they became defining for new pigeonholes for these actresses. You know? Like, the the studio system just didn't know what else to do with these actresses.
• 7:12
  Pete Wright: Yeah. It's a funny way to lock these actresses into something. Right? It's it's not that they that there weren't opportunities coming, though I'm sure those opportunities were dwindling, but that there was, it turns out, only one trope left at a certain point. There was only one way to exist in Hollywood, and it was it was this, you know, this one sort of model.
• 7:36
  And that it just, you know, I'm I'm not sure how much has changed, although I have to tell you. I'm here watching hacks right now, which is effectively a Sunset Boulevard story, and it's Jean Smart doing the absolute work of her career. I mean, it is it is just incredible and beautiful and daffy and heartfelt, and I could not help but think of this movie as I'm watching in parallel the story of Hacks. So I I just I think she's absolutely trans transcendent.
• 8:10
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I think that she's, just really stunning in her performance here and and gives her all. And I think that's what's really exciting about it is she clearly viewed this as as an important performance for her career, and I think that it speaks to that, you know, what she's doing here.
• 8:29
  Pete Wright: So Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the story itself. I skipped the story.
• 8:35
  Andy Nelson: Well, I thought we should since we talked about her, I just I was thinking we should jump into William Holden as her as her opposite here. Awesome. Our second William Holden performance of this series because he also is in Born Yesterday, and this is my favorite between the two. I just think that this is a very much kind of a film noir story the way Billy Wilder and team crafted it. And I think that with the opening the way it is, finding William Holden, floating in a pool, that fantastic shot under the water, which actually wasn't, but it's from above shooting into a mirror reflecting.
• 9:15
  That shot is just haunting, like the way that he looks in the water there. And then his voice over, which is such a key part of the noir tropes and just kind of what we expect from noir. I love William Holden, and I'm trying to think, like, what some of my favorite William Holden performances are. This is up there. This Wild Bunch, Bridge of the River Kwai network, style like '17 is a good one.
• 9:42
  All going all the way back to, like, Golden Boy that you know, where he was discovered. I mean, I he's just a strong, solid actor. He's one of those people that it's like, I don't know if I've ever seen him in something where I stop seeing it as William Holden doing a performance. He just performs really well. You know?
• 10:03
  It's not like he's he disappears into the role or anything.
• 10:07
  Pete Wright: Kind of a George Clooney. Like, you never quite lose it, but you know how good he is.
• 10:13
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. That's yeah. Exactly.
• 10:14
  Pete Wright: He's a star. He's just a straight up, you know, move icon. I totally agree. He fits this part to a t. There is some complexity in making this believable because we know that he starts from a position of desperation.
• 10:31
  He needs money to get his car keep his car out of hock. So it it's first and foremost an economic story. Right?
• 10:40
  Andy Nelson: The times are so funny when they would just send somebody, we need you to finish paying your car bill.
• 10:45
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. Luckily, scale has has made it such that they can't just send thugs to follow you around all the time anymore. They have to send letters and strongly worded voice mails.
• 10:58
  Andy Nelson: Right.
• 10:59
  Pete Wright: I think that he is such a handsome leading man hero type. Like, starting this movie, I found myself wondering, am I gonna believe it? When he just sort of evolves into this weird relationship with her, this sort of sugar mommy kind of of relationship with her, and I do. I absolutely do. That is a bit of leading man's sleight of hand that is unique.
• 11:25
  Right? This is kind of a wackadoo story, and yet I believe it when he becomes, sort of comes onto her payroll and becomes such an integrated part of her life.
• 11:37
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Her new boy toy. It's it's very interesting to kind of see this depiction in here. And it's interesting to watch his performance because he's he's clearly frustrated with the situation, disappointed, that this is this is his decision that he's made to kind of just stay along for this crazy ride. But it's like, you know, sometimes you're you're in bed and you you've made your bed and you're lying in it, and you're like, I really need to get out of this bed.
• 12:10
  But it's comfortable. Like, it's getting I'm getting all this money and and all this stuff. And, you know, I I have time to I'm writing this terrible script, but I'm also having some time to write this other thing. And but he he looks kind of disgusted with himself often. And I think that's a strong way to play it because I think that it I I buy into his frustration.
• 12:34
  He's a struggling writer. He needs the money. He needs a place to stay. He needs a car. He needs all of these things, and now he has it all.
• 12:43
  And he still is ostensibly a struggling writer. It's not like over the course of the story, he's sold anything just because Betty has latched onto this screenplay of his that they're working on together. They still haven't made any money from it. So it's not like he's on payroll like she is. You know?
• 13:01
  Pete Wright: Right. Right. That's the nuance that I'm trying to get at. Well, I never feel like he's making a choice to stay there. He's he his first choice was to stay there to help her with her script.
• 13:15
  But then he's just there. Right? And time passes, and suddenly he's just always there. And I think that's the sort of the insidiousness of of her, you know, wealth and allure is what keeps him there, and and it's just so quiet. Right?
• 13:33
  It's so quiet. His his decision is decision free. He just is there because of inertia. That's the piece that makes that friction when he realizes it and has to start sneaking out at night that much more sort of feels dangerous. Also, because we know what she's willing to do when he leaves her.
• 13:52
  Andy Nelson: Right. And I think that's a a part of it is he's I mean,
• 13:56
  Andy Nelson: he's gotten to a point
• 13:57
  Andy Nelson: where he has he feels he has to sneak out. Right? And it's just like, god says so much that I I've gotta sneak out on this this older lady all of 50, as we find out. And she's
• 14:09
  Pete Wright: not goodness.
• 14:10
  Andy Nelson: This is like, oh, Hollywood. Yeah. This this, quote, older lady who is holding him there. Or I don't know. It's it's really kind of a toxic way to kind of, like, stay for all of the reasons.
• 14:27
  You know? Yeah. But speaking of toxic, then there's Eric Von Stroheim as Max the butler, who has been his butt her butler forever. He also, again, very meta, had been a director, had discovered her when she was 16, had made these films with her, had been her first husband, we find out. Fatal flaw.
• 14:46
  And now he's she's been married two other times. We found his fatal flaw. She's been married two other times, and he's still buttling.
• 14:54
  Pete Wright: He is still buttling. Andy, nice use of the word.
• 14:59
  Andy Nelson: I buttle.
• 15:01
  Pete Wright: Yes. And I found this this time, I realized, oh, right. This is Falcon Crest. This is Dallas. This is Dynasty.
• 15:09
  The fact that he was the first husband and her director and now her butler for so many years, I just I felt like they put a hat on a hat on a hat for Max. It was too much for me this time. And I liked it. I mean, I otherwise liked Max. I never wondered why he was still there because I never really wondered why Joe was still there.
• 15:34
  It was the same reason for me. I didn't need the entanglement of his, you know, former romantic and directorial history with her. You like the soap opera parts?
• 15:46
  Andy Nelson: Well, I I don't necessarily think it's the same reasons that Joe is there.
• 15:52
  Pete Wright: Okay. Give me why.
• 15:53
  Andy Nelson: I think he feels incredibly protective of her. And I feel like he has to take care of her, and this is what he does to take care of her. And I don't know. We never find out at what point he started bundling. Was he doing it during the second and third marriages?
• 16:10
  Did he come in afterward because she was lost and alone? We don't really know. But now he's here, and he's taking care of her. And I think that speaks a lot to somebody who just feels like maybe there is still love, but there certainly is like, I don't know, almost a parental protective nature that he has. Like, all the way through, like, he's the one who's talking to Joe about you you can't do these things.
• 16:33
  You can't say these things. I I will tell her that these are this is what's happening, but we can't, you know, talk about this. We've had to remove all the locks because of her previous attempts of suicide. Like, he's he's very much trying to take care of every little thing about who she is and why, and which goes all the way to his final moment in the film, which is beautiful. Like, that is like a painful, painful moment for him to watch her, to play director again, to get back into this moment and give her the direction to kind of come down the stairs and everything.
• 17:10
  And, like, as he's giving the cues, you can see the pain on his face because he knows that this is what has to be done. But as somebody who, like, has this deep affinity and need to care for her, like, it breaks his heart that he has to do this in order to get her down the stairs for the police.
• 17:28
  Pete Wright: Okay. I agree with all of that. Right? I just didn't need the extra bit that he was the fur like, if you could just imagine the everything you just said is true, but that he was the first husband, like that that angle, it it felt a bridge too far. I understand absolutely the allegiance to spending a career with her, the love that develops over years and decades that that makes this relationship what it is, and and in all of its highs and it's really disgusting sort of emotionally entangled lows.
• 18:09
  I get all of that, but I felt like the husband angle was too too much. I even could give you the director angle, the discovery angle, because I think that plays into the sort of notorious kind of poisonous atmosphere of the studio system at the time. And that even works for me, and it keeps it in in the realm of Hollywood duplicity. But the the husband angle was, I just felt unnecessary. I preferred it being this professional than platonic love for this this woman who is clearly year over year deteriorating a little bit more.
• 18:51
  And I thought that was really powerful. It just felt unnecessary, the husband bit.
• 18:58
  Andy Nelson: I guess I can see that. I I do like it, though. I I think that it it's I mean, yeah, maybe it is, Dallas or Falcon Crest soap opera, dramatic, but it it gives it an angle that I think also speaks to I I think it adds to the toxicity, which we don't really get if it's just director. You know, I think that the fact that he had married her and and, you know, so say she was 16 when he discovered her. Say he was a young director at all of 25.
• 19:31
  So maybe, like, nine or ten years older than her or something like that. And so it's it's going to be a Hollywood marriage where I don't know if it's gonna ever be a healthy relationship. It's definitely one where she probably was she maybe had daddy issues. Who knows exactly what drew her to him? Got married and then probably was already fooling around and and left.
• 19:54
  And so I I I sense that there's also this toxic element to him still needing to take care of her. And perhaps just like her, as this person who's latched on to this script, Salome that she wants to make with mister DeMille, he has latched on to her again. I mean, obviously, he doesn't have anything else going on. He all he's doing is this. And so he's given over everything in his life to just helping take care of her.
• 20:24
  And so I I I just I think it adds to the toxic element by having him be a previous husband. I do agree it's soap operatic, but I think that toxicity is what makes it work for me.
• 20:35
  Pete Wright: Well, and I'm I'm down for toxicity too. I actually think that that you're what you describe, I think I have the same thing in my head that there was this weird relationship, and it actually makes it more sad if they never got married. Right? If there was no marriage, it was just, like, weird longing that manifested in this other kind of marriage, a marriage between an aging star and a butler. That that seems more sad.
• 21:06
  I think the case you just made, I really agree with, and I think it makes my case better too.
• 21:13
  Andy Nelson: Well, I just I but you're taking the toxicity out because then it's not a toxic. There's not this toxic draw that he still has to be part of her life even though they've married and divorced, and here he is still wanting to be part of that.
• 21:26
  Pete Wright: Well, I think my toxicity is in the older, younger, the sort of Lolita story that evolves into this weird obsessive, I have to buttle for you or I am nothing kind of a relationship.
• 21:37
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Well, regardless, I think we both agree.
• 21:40
  Pete Wright: We're both fans.
• 21:41
  Andy Nelson: It's yeah. We're fans of this weird relationship. It works.
• 21:45
  Pete Wright: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Andy Nelson: I know you wanna talk about the story, but since we're already doing this, let's just go through our our fourth of the big leads, and this is Nancy Olsen playing Betty Schaefer. This is the, reader at Paramount who we first meet telling the guy at Paramount that Joe's script sucks with Joe in the room, and which kicks off their relationship, which, evolves over the course of the story, and she also got an Oscar nomination out of it. So, I mean, how does Betty work? Is it big enough? Does it work?
• 22:14
  Does it play?
• 22:16
  Pete Wright: Andy, what's going on with the close talking party scene where he sees her, what, the second time and the maybe the third time? And they go into the the rainbow room, which is the bathroom, to have a work conversation and end up almost kissing, like, real real screenplay edging in this sequence to and it's just diabolical. What's the what's the deal with the pace of their relationship? Did you buy it? Did you buy how they were written, how fast she fell in love with him and and wanted to ditch her her boy toy?
• 22:53
  Andy Nelson: I I think that in many ways, there are there's different we we're in a movie world, and we have to remember that relationships come in all sorts of speeds, hugely much faster than the real world. And I think that's just part of what we're getting here is a speedy draw. I mean, you know, we're it it plays as from the first meeting, they're kind of butting heads, but we already have a sense that there's a draw, and we're gonna see that draw as they as they come together. And so I think that's just how Hollywood plays.
• 23:27
  Pete Wright: Well, especially because they're the two most beautiful people in the movie. Right? Like, of course, just, like, beautiful person character economy. They're gonna hook up.
• 23:36
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right. Yeah. This is the George Clooney, Julie Roberts of of Ocean's
• 23:41
  Pete Wright: 11. That's exactly right.
• 23:43
  Andy Nelson: It's like if any two of the 11 are gonna pair up, it's those two.
• 23:46
  Pete Wright: It's Clooney and and Roberts. That's that's what I was thinking about. The the fact that, I mean, they go into the rainbow room. Like, the boyfriend is right there. Like, right there.
• 23:56
  This is the fastest infidelity I I think in film. It is speedy, speedy infidelity.
• 24:04
  Andy Nelson: I had forgotten how quickly they could get to almost kissing with the boyfriend just, like, right there. Yeah.
• 24:10
  Pete Wright: Just in the out right in the room. Yeah. Just right there.
• 24:14
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:15
  Pete Wright: As a result, I don't have a particular fondness for either of them in but particularly, well, I guess either of them because he is he he's a manipulator, which is weird. Part of what makes their relationship work for me is the fact that he gets to exert some control in his life in some kind of negative ways outside of his relationship at with Norma, where when he's at home with Norma, he has no control. Right? And so it really feels like he's moving forward quickly because he's just trying to to kind of keep some authority, some agency in his life.
• 25:01
  Andy Nelson: Does that does that wash? I think it plays. I can I can buy that? I don't know. It's interesting because it's it's hard to read Betty all the time because is she actually wanting to kiss him even though she's dating Artie and soon will be engaged to Artie as we learn?
• 25:20
  What is this especially fast connection that she has to him when they decide to start working on the scripts together? Is some of that because they just want to be spending more time with each other? Right? Is she drawn to him? I mean, they almost kiss later when they're working on the script, and that's when he tells her, do me a favor.
• 25:41
  Always stay at least two feet away from me because, like, he's not trusting himself because he's too drawn to her.
• 25:47
  Pete Wright: What a dick move too. Right? I'm gonna I if you get too close, it's gonna be your fault if I come on to you. It's all on you if you don't clock me over the head with a shoe because I'm I can't help myself. I'm just a man.
• 26:01
  You smell too good.
• 26:03
  Andy Nelson: It's not just the shampoo. Yeah.
• 26:05
  Pete Wright: Right? But in so many ways, like, look at the parallels between his relationship with Norma and Betty's relationship with him. He's the Norma in this relationship. She it she strikes me as she's younger. Do you buy that she's 22?
• 26:20
  Not sure that I buy that, but she's younger. She she has things that she really likes about his writing. He's clearly done more writing. There is a sort of professional fondness that she she sparks with him early on and develops a little crush on him in the industry. You could say that she's kind of out of control too, just the way he is with with Norma.
• 26:44
  Andy Nelson: She was 22 when the film came out, just so you know. The actress wasn't. Goddamn. Crazy. Yeah.
• 26:50
  Pete Wright: No way. Yeah. She probably looked 22 when she was 15 too. She's probably 22 the day she died. Some people, man.
• 26:58
  It's her and Clooney.
• 26:59
  Andy Nelson: That's right. That's right. Your your point's an interesting one, and it does make me wonder what their relationship would be like had he not ended up with Norma and living at her place. If he if none of that had happened, if he'd lost his car, whatever the case may be. But if after that conversation with Betty, when she rips on his script, Presumably, the next time they meet each other would have still been at that New Year's party.
• 27:31
  He still would have gone
• 27:32
  Pete Wright: there. Mhmm.
• 27:33
  Andy Nelson: Not having Norma in his life and all of the frustration and everything he has with himself, would he have acted that way with Betty? That's a really good question.
• 27:45
  Pete Wright: I you know, knowing the movie that we have, probably so. But I like to think that that he would have had more of a choice in the matter. Right? That he would have he he would maybe not have had the need to exert his authority over his like, he made the case that this guy is a friend of his. Right?
• 28:06
  Like, that may have had additional weight on his on the the relationship calculus. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I mean, he's such a middle of the road guy. You know what I mean?
• 28:18
  Like, from scene to scene, is he chaotic neutral? Is he chaotic good? Like, what did he what did he roll for for his his his stats? It just feels like he wavers back and forth. He's so contextually driven.
• 28:37
  And maybe that starts because he's in a a state of economic woe. Well and
• 28:44
  Andy Nelson: and again, a lot of it is just because he's also the star of a film noir. Right?
• 28:49
  Pete Wright: Or he needs to
• 28:50
  Andy Nelson: he needs to be behaving this way. And I think that's I just think that goes to, Billy Wilder and, you know, his collaborator of many years, Charles Brackett, working on this screenplay along with DM Marshman Junior who came on knowing what story they were trying to tell. And I think that speaks to really Wilder having worked we've talked about his noirs, like we talked about double indemnity. He's a director who knows this type of story, and he knows that with this world that this is the sort of character we need to get out of Joe. And so I think it speaks a lot to the script and how well it's crafted.
• 29:36
  Pete Wright: It really does feel like we put Joe in a maze of of just bad decisions, and yet every decision he makes comes from an understandable reason. Right? Like, I never I never question why. I mean, I I understand how he gets himself into these positions and how one leads to another leads to another. It's just it's just a guy making bad choices for understandable reasons.
• 30:07
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Really is. I mean, we've we've danced around the story quite a bit. But, I mean, in general, the story is this young screenwriter who, as we said, he's he's broke. He can't afford his car.
• 30:21
  He hides out in this what appears to be abandoned house. Turns out it's not. It's the home of Norma Desmond. He ends up drawn into her web where she hires him essentially as a writer to rework this massive the piles of notes and everything of this script that is supposed to be her return, not her comeback. And and again, she also falls for him.
• 30:45
  He becomes her boy toy. They have to live with Max. They have a funeral for her pet monkey, which is one of the, you know, the first when when he comes into the place, that's that's how we start because she mistakes him for the person who brings the coffin so that they can actually go bury this pet chimpanzee of hers that has died out her backyard. It's a weird way to start the film.
• 31:12
  Pete Wright: Just as a a flag on the field, did you like that? Were you in favor of the monkey funeral?
• 31:19
  Andy Nelson: I thought it spoke very much to just the strange world that you have with some of these incredibly rich stars where he shows up and he walks into, oh, we're you're you're supposed to have brought the coffin for my pet chimpanzee. It's like, what? Like, it's such a there's a some a a line that Billy Wilder said when his, cinematographer asked, like, what sort of lighting do you want this scene to look like? He's like, oh, you know, just your standard monkey funeral. Because
• 31:55
  Pete Wright: Well, I I I'm in favor of it. Just as a short, we could move beyond it. I I really enjoyed the fact that the first thing we get with Norman Desmond is is preparations for the chimp funeral. I thought that was a really good touch and such awesome world building. And and I did, I admit, find it funny.
• 32:12
  I wanna start with the the voice over because this is a noir thing. Voice overs be voice overs. This voice over is in the voice of Joe. And Joe, when we first see him, is dead. Joe is the body in the pool.
• 32:30
  And I wanna know if you have a literal read on it, a supernatural read on it, if you think Wilder does not intend any additional deeper meaning at all. How do you make sense of the voice over from beyond the grave?
• 32:45
  Andy Nelson: I guess I've never really thought that deeply about it because it's because it is so noir ish as far as the tone that we have with this film to have the voice over kicking in describing this is how I got here. This is how I ended up dead. I don't know. It just plays. It works for me.
• 33:03
  It's much better than what they initially did. I don't know if you read about the early test screenings that they had of this. It was Joe in a a funeral home, and he's brought in. And then he sits up, and all of the other dead bodies sit up, and they start talking about how they got to be where they are. And so then he relays his whole story.
• 33:25
  And audiences were cracking up because it was so silly with all these people who were supposedly dead sitting up and chatting.
• 33:32
  Pete Wright: I'm so, so relieved that didn't stick. So relieved.
• 33:36
  Andy Nelson: That's even if that's the worst. Yeah.
• 33:39
  Pete Wright: Oh my god. Well, I because especially when you take that out of it, when you just don't acknowledge the fact that Cho's a ghost. Right? It really makes the whole movie this sort of deterministic roller coaster. Like, you already know that every bad choice Joe makes is going to lead to this inevitable outcome.
• 34:01
  He will be dead, and you get to hear him process everything up to the night of his death when the voiceover stops. And I think that has these awesome sort of reverberations to the idea that Hollywood itself is just a death machine. You can't you can't we open with the death of the chimpanzee. Joe's dead. Every it doesn't matter what role you play in Hollywood.
• 34:26
  Your economic desperation, your psychological entrapment with this aging movie star, whatever choices you make, you're gonna end up dead in a pool. And I really I really like that. It's very dark, very bleak. I know. Yeah.
• 34:43
  I know. Like, you you know, there there's a bit of a chilling realization when you know how it ends, and he makes that that last turn. Like, the tire falls off his car, and he makes that turn into effectively the haunted driveway of Norma Desmond, the overgrown house, and he hides his car away in in the garage. Like, that's the moment his death is sealed. Right?
• 35:11
  It all starts from these idiots chasing him for running him down for $300.
• 35:16
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's a fatalistic view of film noir where they don't really have a choice. Like, this it's in inevitability that we're watching here. Like, this is this is how your fate has been decided.
• 35:28
  Pete Wright: I I find that really that that's compelling. And as I I think I speak for us both, voice over in general is a noted antagonist to a lot of films. I did not hate this one.
• 35:40
  Andy Nelson: Oh, good.
• 35:41
  Pete Wright: Good. I really like it.
• 35:43
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. The relationships, you know, we have the ups and downs between Joe and Norma, and then we do have the growing relationship that happens with Joe and and Betty. At a point when Artie has gone to Arizona to on a project and is stuck in Arizona because it's supposed to be sunny and it's raining. They rewrite it for rain. They start filming, and now it's sunny.
• 36:06
  And so it's he's gonna be there for a long time. So Betty and Joe fall for each other. And just as all of that is happening and then Artie wants her to come out there, this is when Norma realizes what or, like, there's the realization as to what's going on. And Betty figures it all out, and she comes over to the house and has this confrontation with Joe after Norma has called. And Joe tells her essentially, get out.
• 36:41
  Go to Arty. Leave me. Like, the the again, speaking to fate, he kind of realizes and decides, like, this is where I need to be. He doesn't leave. He stays here.
• 36:55
  Now he's packing his stuff, but he to leave her, but he won't go with Betty. Where how do you read that as far as his decision to, like, push her away?
• 37:04
  Pete Wright: Well, I I think it has more to do with the fact that he is recognized. He's packing because he's recognized his deep emotional entanglement and financial entanglement with Norma. And he and to get rid of every other external feature in his life, he knows that he comes to the realization that that's that's bad for him. He needs to be free of his relationship with Norma Desmond. Now I I read it that he torpedoes his relationship with Betty because he knows Norma is watching, and he doesn't want to actually leave her with any more of a broken heart than she's already going to have when he leaves.
• 37:52
  That's my sense of it. Like, he that it's going to be finds it going to be easier for him to extract himself from the situation if she is not doubly brokenhearted. What do you think?
• 38:05
  Andy Nelson: So you think it's for Norma that he does that? Yeah. I read it that he does it, and I I guess it actually could play into both. I read it that he did it for Betty because he's like, I have to push her away. I have to break her heart in in whatever is going on with us because I recognize that I am I've become the my own toxic mess, and I have to get her out of here to save her, push her back to Artie where things will go well for her.
• 38:34
  And I think we can have both.
• 38:35
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I do too. I think there's that's definitely part of it. And I think that's part of his his awakening in the movie. Like, that's when he wake wakes up and realizes, oh, wait a minute.
• 38:45
  I can do stuff. We, of course, know that he that doing stuff will lead to him dead in a pool, but he he does have choice. He has choice. And he doesn't have to be just a dumbass the whole time. Right?
• 39:00
  He doesn't have to be a dirtbag scene to scene to scene dressed in, you know, fine cashmere. Vicuna, Pete. Vicuna. I don't even know what that
• 39:10
  Pete Wright: is.
• 39:11
  Andy Nelson: What is vicuna? Vicuna is like an alpaca. It is? Yeah. Where does a vicuna live?
• 39:16
  I wanna say they're also in South America, but I could be wrong.
• 39:19
  Pete Wright: I had no idea this you had the dark corner of your experience devoted to vicuna.
• 39:25
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Not that I have any coats of them, but they're, yeah, they're, one of the two wild South American camelids. The other is the guanaco.
• 39:34
  Pete Wright: Do they make coats out of guanaco?
• 39:36
  Andy Nelson: I don't know if they do or not. God. Yeah. But vicuna wool is one of the world's finest natural fibers. They are cousins of the alpaca.
• 39:47
  Okay. Roaming wild in the Andean Mountains at altitudes between thirty two hundred and forty eight hundred meters, Pete. It it does break my heart a
• 39:55
  Pete Wright: little bit to think that they have these vicuna, and they shave them at that altitude. They gotta be cold for a whole season. Don't you think?
• 40:03
  Andy Nelson: You're so thoughtful. You're so thoughtful. I'm in it for for animal goodwill. Maybe they probably do it during the summer. You know?
• 40:10
  They need their summer shave.
• 40:12
  Pete Wright: I do that with my I should make a coat out of my beard in the summer. Just a wee little coat.
• 40:18
  Andy Nelson: I'm gonna do
• 40:18
  Pete Wright: that and send it to you.
• 40:19
  Andy Nelson: That would know. You should wear it.
• 40:23
  Pete Wright: Could have a fat guy in a little coat experience. Okay. What else you got on your list for this movie?
• 40:30
  Andy Nelson: I think it's worth talking a little bit about the fantastic cameos that we have in the movie. Hedda Hopper and Sydney Skol Skolsky, two famous Hollywood reporters, are just, like, very much gossip columnists and everything. They both appear Hedda Hopper is the one who's on the phone at the end, where the cops are trying to use the phone. She's like, this is more important. It's a fantastic little scene.
• 40:54
  Cecil Big DeMille, obviously, is playing himself in here. But, you know, the ones that are, I think, the fun ones worth, bringing up are Buster Keaton, Anna Q. Nielsen, and HB Warner as the three people playing bridge with her. And seeing the three of them are is fantastic. I mostly I mean, Buster Keaton.
• 41:12
  I'm a huge fan of Buster Keaton. We'll be talking about him in our next series because we're gonna be looking at seven chances. H. Warner is just one of those faces that we have seen in so many things. Like a lot of Frank Capra movies like It's a Wonderful Life and Lost Horizon, and you can't take it with you.
• 41:29
  So he's just one of those fantastic faces. And Ana Q. Nielsen is somebody who I really have seen very, very little of, but she did she was somebody who did continue performing in later years in films like Adam's Rib and stuff like that. That was really fun.
• 41:47
  Pete Wright: I I he called them what do you call them? The waxworks?
• 41:49
  Andy Nelson: The waxworks. Yeah.
• 41:50
  Pete Wright: That's really touching.
• 41:53
  Andy Nelson: So sweet. The waxworks. Oh, it's another little interesting little nod. Oh, and speaking of our next series with Buster Keaton, her bed that she's sleeping in is in the shape of a boat that we see. Yeah.
• 42:07
  That boat, it was owned by a famous, like, opera singer or something like that, and it ended up Universal bought it in 1920, and it ends up getting featured in the Phantom of the Opera, which we're also gonna be talking about.
• 42:20
  Pete Wright: Oh, I did not know that.
• 42:22
  Andy Nelson: I know.
• 42:23
  Pete Wright: Weird little News
• 42:24
  Andy Nelson: history. Of I know.
• 42:25
  Pete Wright: Alright. We talked last time, because this movie came out the same year as Caged, we talked about the production code challenges. Did you what did you notice about this movie and what it may have may or may not have gotten away with in 1950 code production territory?
• 42:48
  Andy Nelson: Well, I think that as far as whatever the relationship is between Norma and Joe, that they don't delve into it. You know? Like, I think the closest we see is him sitting down at one point and she's leaning leaning back on him or something like that. Like, it doesn't delve into it, like, them waking up in bed together or anything like that. So I think I think those are some elements that we see of the of them playing it safe, even though they're talking about it.
• 43:16
  You know?
• 43:17
  Pete Wright: Most interesting to me, I think the the boundary that he pushed I mean, there's the the immorality stuff that that you bring up. But the fact that the movie ends with a dead guy in a pool, like a real dead guy with blood floating around in the water, like, just seemed kinda gruesome. And there is no sense of of redemption at the end of it. That seems like a thing they they get away with. And to, you know, really be a film that is a critique of Hollywood's cruelty and do it without letting anyone off the hook at all.
• 43:54
  Like, it just feels like like the movie gives an honest portrayal of all of the the machinations of the Hollywood system and does so without without being overly kind to anyone. I think with the only exception being Cecil B. DeMille, who is just a a real teddy bear. And I I don't know how to compare that to Cecil B. DeMille.
• 44:20
  Andy Nelson: Not everybody took the film as being kind to Hollywood. Louis B. Mayer actually said to Billy Wilder, you've disgraced the industry that made and fed you. You should be tarred and feathered and run out of Hollywood. So not everybody thought that it was a great glimpse into this world.
• 44:36
  Some people really took it personally that he was making them seem like a like a awful place that no longer respects older people.
• 44:45
  Pete Wright: It's a cruel place. Yeah. It is this is a movie that that demonstrates a cruel, cruel Hollywood. And I think that's really interesting that he sort of gets away with it.
• 44:54
  Andy Nelson: He really does. He really does. And, you know, rightfully, this is one of the top films that Billy Wilder is most known for. You know, I'd say this, Double Indemnity, Some Like It Hot. I don't know.
• 45:07
  Those three stand out to me as probably the core ones of his. You know? Yeah. And this is the last film that he worked on with Charles Brackett. It's interesting because they had, been collaborating for so long, and and then they they got to a point where they weren't sure if they were, like, starting to be tone deaf because it's writing Hollywood.
• 45:30
  And so they brought on a a film critic. That's DM Marshman Junior, who helped come up with some of the stuff in the script and, you know, ended up getting credited and winning an Oscar for it and everything. So was very appreciative of his of his role with this, but ended up not really having much of a career after this. I think that I mean, he's the one who came up with the line as long as the lady's paying for it, why not take the vacuna? But, yeah, he he had two more writing credits in Second Chance and Taxi, but never really took off.
• 45:59
  So I ended up going and working in advertising. But but Charles Brackett said it was a big surprise when Billy Wilder told him that they're not gonna work together anymore. It wasn't like an angry breakup or anything like that. It's just, hey. I think I'm gonna start writing my own sort of stuff or something like that.
• 46:18
  Didn't know why and just always was kind of like scratching his head as to like what happened. You know?
• 46:23
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. It's a a fascinating film. I'm I'm glad we had the opportunity to talk about it. Do you do you want to engage in the conversation about best actress?
• 46:35
  Andy Nelson: We should. Yeah. This is, again, part of the reason we're here, the best actress Oscar race. We've, discussed Betty Davis and Anne Baxter, both from All About Eve, Judy Holiday from Born Yesterday, Eleanor Parker from Caged, and now Gloria Swanson from Sunset Boulevard. People say because Betty Davis' role and Gloria Swanson's role as as older actresses and battling with their age in the system kind of canceled each other out, which is why Judy Holiday surprised everybody by winning even though everyone is expecting either Bette Davis or, Glorious Wantson to win.
• 47:22
  Where do you stand, and how would you rank the five performances?
• 47:25
  Pete Wright: I've only really thought super hard about the top couple because I I feel like the real you just laid out the real fight is Gloria Swanson, Betty Davis for me, and I think I I am landing this watch on Swanson. I think the fact that she is playing such a haunted kind of mirror image of herself while navigating this critique of the cruelty of Hollywood in this sort of dark, dark satire is increases the degree of difficulty for her performance. And I think that it that she is able to make her the the grandiosity of her of her physical performance so believable and not lampoonish, I think represents something great for for what she has done. So I'm I'm a a big fan of Gloria Swanson. I think she should have taken it.
• 48:25
  Now it probably should have gone Gloria Swanson, Betty Davis, Judy Holiday, and Baxter Eleanor Parker. That's my that's my ranking right off the dome.
• 48:36
  Andy Nelson: Mine, I would put for many of the same reasons you did, but I would I would end up putting Betty Davis on top just because I think that she delivers such a nuanced, again, also big performance. But I think there's so much nuance in in the way her character arc is over the course of the story. Like, I would put that at my number one, and Glorious Wants at number two. But, man, those two are so neck and neck. And then Judy Holiday, number three, also, I'd say very neck and neck.
• 49:01
  Like, she's just perfect in that role. I would put Eleanor Parker next, and I would put Anne Baxter last. I think Anne Baxter was fine in her performance. I mean, I think she's very, very good. And she's later in in later in life acknowledged if she had just pushed instead of pushing for best actress, push for best supporting actress, she probably would have won.
• 49:22
  So that's you know, it is what it is. It's it's hard. I don't know. It's the whole thing about how is it too long for a best supporting performance. It really should be kind of a lead role also, but I just don't think I think she's a really interesting performance, but I still would put the other four above her.
• 49:40
  So that's where I would land.
• 49:41
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Alright. We're we're very close.
• 49:44
  Andy Nelson: Very close.
• 49:45
  Pete Wright: Mostly the same reasons.
• 49:46
  Andy Nelson: Yes.
• 49:46
  Pete Wright: And I think the I think where I struggle with with Judy Holiday is that it is a, I don't know. The the dumb blonde chorus girl trope, being smarter than anyone expects, is super charming, and she demonstrates just a real skill at comic timing and intelligence over vacancy, right, that that I think really plays. But it is just such a small role for me compared to the and I'll give both Betty Davis and Gloria Swanson. Again, degree of difficulty, like, I it just feels like they they had to do so much more to channel the complexities of Hollywood and of aging and of grief that Holiday did not have to stretch to do.
• 50:38
  Andy Nelson: But it's one hell of a performance still. I love it.
• 50:40
  Pete Wright: It is one hell of a performance. Yeah.
• 50:43
  Andy Nelson: Alright. Well, we will be right back. But first, our credits.
• 50:58
  Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Rotem Cinnamon, Ian Post, Oriole Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at d-numbers.com, boxofficemojo.com, imdb.com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
• 51:37
  Andy Nelson: Well, hello there, darling. It's me, Andy Nelson. No.
• 51:41
  Andy Nelson: No. No. Not the rerecording mixer. Yes.
• 51:43
  Andy Nelson: I know he's the one with the Oscars. I'm the other Andy Nelson.
• 51:47
  Andy Nelson: Yes. That one. Anyway, you may think my glory days are behind me, but I'm here to tell you that the magic of cinema never fades and neither does my love for the silver screen. Just like my palatial home on Sunset Boulevard, Letterboxd is a grand destination for movie lovers like you and me. It's a place where we can come together to celebrate the timeless allure of film, to revel in the memories of our favorite performances, and to discover new cinematic treasures that will take our breath away.
• 52:14
  As a true connoisseur of the art form, I know you're always on the lookout for that next great film, that performance that will leave you speechless. And, darling, let me tell you, Letterboxd is the key to unlocking a world of cinematic wonders. Imagine having your own private screening room where you can explore the vast landscape of film history and connect with fellow devotees who share your passion. That's what Letterboxd offers and so much more. And just like how I'm inviting you into my world, Letterboxd is extending an exclusive invitation to join their inner circle.
• 52:48
  Simply head over to the nextreal.com/letterboxd,
• 52:51
  Andy Nelson: or sign up directly on letterboxed and
• 52:53
  Andy Nelson: use the code next reel to receive a tempting 20% off your membership. This code works for both new sign ups and renewals so everyone can indulge in the glamour of letterboxed. With a Letterboxd pro or patron membership, you'll have access to a bevy of features that will make you feel like a true Hollywood insider. From ad free browsing to personalized stats and streaming service notifications, you'll have everything you need to fully immerse yourself in the intoxicating world of cinema. So, darling, what do say?
• 53:24
  Will you accept my invitation to join me on Letterboxd? Together, we can keep the magic of the movies alive just like the spirit of the golden age that still flickers within the walls of my cherished home. Visit thenextreel.com/letterboxed, or sign up on letterbox now with the code next reel and let the dream factory welcome you with open arms. Remember, we didn't need dialogue. We had faces then, and we have them now preserved forever on Letterboxd.
• 53:53
  Join me, won't you?
• 53:56
  Pete Wright: Sequels and remakes, Andy.
• 53:59
  Pete Wright: Oh, man.
• 54:01
  Pete Wright: DNA of Sunset Boulevard is everywhere.
• 54:04
  Andy Nelson: It is everywhere.
• 54:05
  Pete Wright: What are the other ones that you've seen?
• 54:07
  Andy Nelson: Well, what have I seen? Well, see, first of all, there's a radio play in 1951. So, you know, they always tended to do that back then. There's a lot of movies that play homage or discuss it. Soap dish, fantastic movie.
• 54:20
  The player, we've talked about the show, great movie. Gods and Monsters, great movie. Mulholland Drive, great movie. Be Cool, never saw that one. And Inland Empire, great movie.
• 54:29
  And also the ending of Cecil Be Demented, another I haven't seen, is a parody of Sunset Boulevard's final scene. There have been several failed musicals attempted over the years until finally Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical in 1993 with Patti Lupone out in the West End, and then Broadway 94 with Glenn Close. Now there has been in talks for quite a while, a film adaptation of the musical with both Close and Andrew Lloyd Webber producing with Close still playing Norman in development at Paramount Pictures. Rob Ashford directing Tom McRae Riding that was supposed to start filming in 2019, but it was delayed with COVID, and then Paramount put it on hold in 2021. 2024, Close said it's still moving forward.
• 55:13
  New director, though. 2025, just the year's the year, they said that they were still in talks to have her play Norma in the film. Who knows what's going on with it? So and I've never seen that. Have you seen the musical?
• 55:27
  Pete Wright: I've heard it. I've listened to it, but I've never seen it.
• 55:29
  Andy Nelson: Okay. I
• 55:30
  Pete Wright: don't care for it. Oh. I'm I'm soured on a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber.
• 55:34
  Andy Nelson: Interesting stuff. Yeah. Other than that, it has been something that has been referenced so many times in TV and music. Politics. I don't know how much I want to go into the political, story of this, but, our current president says this is one of his, favorite films, if not his favorite film, and has shown it many times in the White House.
• 55:57
  Also, weirdly, wrestling is also yeah. Something. I think in Australia, in some Australian wrestling, they have there's a whole, I don't know, wrestlers, a whole storyline that has been pulled from this. So Wow. Yeah.
• 56:15
  Weird stuff.
• 56:16
  Pete Wright: I don't I don't follow it. I would not would not be able to recognize that. Yeah. I had to do an award season.
• 56:23
  Andy Nelson: It's a big one. 21 wins, 20 other nominations at the Oscars. It had 11 nominations, at the time as one of the most nominated films. And one of the films that had all four acting categories nominated with no wins. I think that's only happened, like, three times.
• 56:42
  Holden was nominated for actor in a leading role, but lost to Jose Ferrer and Cyrano de Bergerac. Eric Von Stroheim was nominated in supporting role, but lost to George Sanders in All About Eve. We already talked about Swanson looting losing best actress to Judy Holliday, and Olsen lost best supporting actress to Josephine Hull in Harvey. They won best art direction set decoration, lost best black and white cinematography to the third man, lost best director to all about eve, lost best editing to king Solomon's minds, won best music scoring of a dramatic or comedy picture, won best writing story and screenplay, and lost best picture to all about eve. So All About Eve was a big one.
• 57:21
  Yeah. At the WGA awards, it did, however, win there for best written American drama and at the Calle du Cinema Awards. It was nominated for best film and ended up coming in eighth place. They actually just ranked them behind, in this case, The River, Diary of a Country Priest, Miracle in Milan, The Young and the Damned, All About Eve, which still beat it, Miss Julie, and Story of a Love Affair. Wow.
• 57:45
  I know. Last but not least, in 1989, Sunset Boulevard was included in the first group of films selected for preservation in the National Film Registry.
• 57:54
  Pete Wright: Okay. It's a terrific film. I'm excited about our next segment because I think you might have something to report. How did it do at the box office?
• 58:12
  Andy Nelson: Well, for Wilder's dark glimpse into Hollywood, he had 1,750,000.00 or just under 23,000,000 in today's dollars. The movie opened 08/10/1950, though weirdly, I also see that it premiered a week earlier in Turkey of all places. Wow. Who knows if that's accurate? Anyway, the film was a massive massive success and went on to earn 5,000,000 at the box office or 65,700,000.0 in today's dollars.
• 58:35
  That lands out with an adjusted profit per finished minute of 388,000. But more importantly, it has been marked in history as one of the greatest films that Hollywood has produced.
• 58:44
  Pete Wright: If you're faced with a flip chart choice between this and All About Eve, what do you pick?
• 58:50
  Andy Nelson: I would pick All About Eve. I that's a film that I I really do like. But, I mean, this it's it's close. It's a really close like, it's a flick chart battle that this would lose All About Eve for me, but they're still close to each other.
• 59:03
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Man, I struggle trying to figure that out. I need to go back and see what did I what did I do for All About Eve. Anyway, I'm just really glad we talked about it. I'm glad we checked off all these fantastic performances in this category, and, yeah, great film.
• 59:19
  Andy Nelson: Fantastic film. I'm glad that we've had a chance to finally talk about it, and I'm glad for the chance to rewatch it because it was one I hadn't seen in quite a while. Yeah. Alright. Well, that is it for today's conversation.
• 59:29
  Next week, we are starting the final leg of our celebration of films from across this last one hundred years of cinema. This series is cinema centennial nineteen twenty five's pioneering visions, and we kick things off with a big one, Pete. That's right. Sergei Eisenstein's battleship Potemkin. Have you you have you seen this one?
• 59:51
  This is one I feel I feel like jumping into 1925 is like the film school area where Pete never really kind of jumped into. Like, I feel this is all gonna be new films for you.
• 1:00:01
  Pete Wright: Some it's hit or miss. Some of them are. This one is one I've never seen, but I've heard a lot about. So
• 1:00:06
  Andy Nelson: The Big Parade, I've never seen. So that'll be a new one for both of us. The Phantom of the Opera, have you seen the 1925? Yes. Have you seen the 25 version or the the that'll be one we'll have to see if we can find the 1925 version because they re released it in, like, 1929 with sound and and some new sound sequences.
• 1:00:25
  Pete Wright: Okay. I feel like I've seen that one. I went through a big Phantom of the Opera phase
• 1:00:30
  Andy Nelson: Okay.
• 1:00:30
  Pete Wright: And saw all of as many of the adaptations as I could get my head hands on. Nice. And I believe I went back that far. But '25 is we're getting we're getting some serious territory.
• 1:00:41
  Andy Nelson: And same thing with the Gold Rush because Charlie Chaplin did that in 1925, and then he re released it with new new audio and everything in the forties. And so we need to make sure we're watching the '25 version. And then Buster Keaton's seven Chances, which is just a fun one. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:00:59
  Well, it's a hell
• 1:01:01
  Pete Wright: of a hell of a year. It'll be an interesting series. Full year.
• 1:01:03
  Andy Nelson: And our members voted, we're talking about A Tale of the Christ, which I've never seen, so
• 1:01:08
  Pete Wright: Not not that Ben Hur, also.
• 1:01:10
  Andy Nelson: Not that Ben Hur. Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Pete Wright: Right. Should Yeah. Have been it it should have have been called that
• 1:01:14
  Andy Nelson: in the rerelease. Not that Ben. The second the one we know should have been called not that Ben Hur.
• 1:01:19
  Pete Wright: Right. Right. Right. Okay. Alright.
• 1:01:24
  Andy Nelson: Well, we will be right back for our ratings.
• 1:01:41
  Pete Wright: You know, there are a lot of ways to listen to podcasts in this town. Most of them won't cost you a dime. But there's one thing about free, you get what you pay for. No bonus episodes, no early access, and those ads, they never stop coming. The Next Real member community, it's different.
• 1:02:05
  For the price of less than a movie ticket a month, you get bonus episodes, early access, in episode bonus content the regular audience never gets to hear in your own personal podcast feed. It's ad free. You can join us for the livestream recording sessions, and, oh, yeah, the Speakeasy backdoor for exclusive channels in our Discord community. But here's what really matters. You're directly supporting the podcasts you love.
• 1:02:37
  See, in this business, nothing lasts forever. Shows come. Shows go. Hosts disappear. But when you join the Next Real member community, you're keeping the lights on.
• 1:02:50
  You're making sure we're still here, still talking about films that matter. So join us at truestory.fm/join. After all, we're ready for our close-up. Are you?
• 1:03:08
  Pete Wright: Letterbox, Dandy. Letterbox, what are you gonna do? Is this an easy one? This is an easy one.
• 1:03:13
  Andy Nelson: It's an easy one. This is absolutely five stars on a heart. I just love this movie.
• 1:03:17
  Pete Wright: Five stars on a heart. It is crying out loud. And it's exactly what I gave All About Eve. I don't even know which end is up anymore.
• 1:03:26
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's tough. They're they're great films. It's a good year. Yeah.
• 1:03:29
  Good year. Yeah. Well, that averages out to five stars in a heart. You can find that on our account at Letterboxd at the next reel. You can find me there at Soda Creek Film.
• 1:03:38
  You can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about Sunset Boulevard? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the ShowTalk channel over in our Discord community where we will be talking about the
• 1:03:49
  Pete Wright: movie this week. When the
• 1:03:51
  Andy Nelson: movie ends, our conversation begins. Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As Letterboxd always doeth.
• 1:04:12
  Pete Wright: I apparently, you know who really giveth is VCE English. That's
• 1:04:16
  Andy Nelson: right. Yeah. What is that again? Victorian Curriculum Authority down in Australia. Apparently, this film has been assigned in the class there, and a lot of students have had to watch it.
• 1:04:28
  A lot of students have voiced their disdain for the film.
• 1:04:34
  Pete Wright: I it's funny. It's like a whole class is down there at the half stars just sharing sharing the trash Yep. For reviews. I the one I went with is not I don't think it's a VC English one. It it's in the area.
• 1:04:49
  It's a half star from Aaron who says, I hate this stupid movie. Did you know that the monkey was supposed to be Norma's lover? Yeah. Now I didn't find any information to corroborate that, but I do think it's it's important to share that here.
• 1:05:06
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. If you
• 1:05:08
  Pete Wright: go in believing that, then it's possible that this movie would be tarnished for you from jump.
• 1:05:13
  Andy Nelson: Was the monkey the third husband?
• 1:05:17
  Pete Wright: Oh my god, Andy. Oh my god. They were all in the house at the same time. Oh my
• 1:05:24
  Andy Nelson: god. Alright. Well, I'm a half star by Molly Hanley who says, RIP, Norma. You would have loved Skip The Dishes, Botox, Tinder, and the mute button on Zoom. That's really good.
• 1:05:41
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Oh my god.
• 1:05:46
  Pete Wright: The mute button on Zoom.
• 1:05:50
  Andy Nelson: Thanks, Letterboxd.