Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S5 E23 - The Milk Carton That Changed America - The Etan Kalil Patz Story Part 1

Transcript

S5 E23 - The Milk Carton That Changed America - The Etan Kalil Patz Story Part 1 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, Hello, Okay, I got things ready.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I know. I'm like, I don't know what to do.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: It tell me what to do.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Welcome back, I guess you.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: For those who don't know me, I'm Terry. Since I
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: haven't been here in years.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: It feels like it's been three weeks. It feels like years.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: It does, it does feel like years.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: But hello lovelies, guys, Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: of the True Crime and Wine Time podcast. And we
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: are all going to give me a lot of grace
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: tonight because I'm way out of practice, okay, and I
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: think this is only my second or third time.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: To have wine.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm on my not my second glass of drink.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Half at the first glass and topped it off. But anyway,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: welcome to the podcast where we uncork the most jaw
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: dropping true crime stories while sipping something smooth to take
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: the edge off. So, guys, poor glass, lock your freaking
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: doors and your windows, and let's uncork the truth behind
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: some of the darkest crimes.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, hello, friends, and thanks for watching us tonight. Now,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: before we begin, you guys, some of you know the drill.
• 1:42
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• 2:00
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• 2:11
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• 2:14
  Speaker 3: want to see all the eye rolls and snarks, you
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: should head over to our YouTube and watch the replay
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: of all of our ships.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I guess I mean the eye rolls are epic, except
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: for people like to screenshot them and take snips, and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, they show up on our
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: thumbnails for shows that show.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, our staff is something else, aren't they. Well, Terry,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: why don't you tell the fine folks this evening what
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: we will be covering tonight?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, I will, and I'm going to warn everybody. I
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: am going to try to keep my emotions in check
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: because tonight we are covering the case of Aton Pates,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: a boy who's nineteen seventy nine disappearance captured the attention
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: of the world, and in my opinion, I think it
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: was the first missing person, missing person's.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Childcase that really went bars to wall nationwide and global
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Essex and global. Yeah. Well, before we get into drinking tonight, Terry,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: you have something exciting coming up that you want to share,
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: So please tell.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: The folks I do is it exciting? No? I will
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: be live in downtown bashtrop Texas, which guys, it's a
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: little bedroom community outside of Austin. I want to say
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: it's eighteen nineteen miles. I'll be there on September thirteenth
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: at the CC Wine in Company. And guys, if you
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: know anything about this case and you're a member or
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you live in the area, you want you're going to
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: want to catch this. I'm going to be covering the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Stacey Stites murder along with the controversy around the conviction
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: of Rodney Reid. Now, this is a very very small venue,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: so it's going to be an intimate conversation with friends
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: and grape wine, and there's going to be dying for
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: some Q and A. So to be similar to what
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: we did in Ohio where we got to talk with
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the audience. It's a smaller venue and I am very
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: very excited.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: I'm excited for you too. And if you can't make
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: a Divast Drop and you're a member, this is one
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: of those exclusive perks I was talking about. All of
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: our live in person shows are streamed live in real
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: time to all of our members. So if you can't
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: make it to Vast Drop Texas, join now and you'll
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: be able to watch it with us on the thirteenth.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: And I am so excited to hear about about this
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: this case. Terry's told me a little bit about it,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: and it's it's something, it is something. Well, before we
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: get into what we're drinking, I think we should say
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: hi to some people in the chat because it looks
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: like people have missed you.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I see that Craig. I mean ya while I was gone?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Or did he only show back up because I'm here
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: because we didn't tell anybody I was back to day
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: since we weren't sure.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know I was watching I'm not here. Okay, hello,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: lady and Gray there for.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Some reason, the doctor's watching I'm not here. It's your imagination.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: This is pre week.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: You're not lifting anything heavy on this show. It's fine. Hello,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Cappin did a fantastic job last week. Yes, I mean
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: for that.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Show Happen, did a great job, Lady and Gray did
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: a great job. I was worried that I was going
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to be fired from my own podcast because he did
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: such a great job. The glasses under my five pound ratio. Cappens,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I'm good.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Good evening, Terri. It's yeah, good evening. By the way, y'all,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: you have all better buckle up and get some sleep
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: tonight because I was going to be early tomorrow on
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Couch Court. But I'll talk about that later. I'm miss WTF.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: She's one of the amazing mods over on our Girl
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: My Shorties channel. There's elbow feed. I told him about
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: this case. I did not give him very much information
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: about this case, but I was like, between this episode
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: and the next episode, you're gonna be pissed, so you're
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: gonna want to watch of them, and I'm not going
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: to tell you why. I'm not going to tell you why.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So well before we get into what we're drinking and stuff,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: just for those that have been following the Menindez stuff
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: with us, Oh yeah, they did go before the parole
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: board today. Lal and Eric one each day, but they
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: have four months to give us answers. Oh wow, But
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I have said an alert and when we get the answers,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: and of course Scott, who are our very good friend
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: who's been on the show, I will ask him if
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: he can give me a heads up because I'm sure
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: he will find out about it and I will at
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: least do a short or a quick update on that.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: But the buzz from what I've heard this afternoon, it
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: went very well today.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, because the other brothers tomorrow, right, yes, yeah,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: we'll see, We'll see see. Maybe we'll just have to
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: have mister Scott Hoover back on the show right too,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: and on your best day to.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: It since I always make things long. But I find
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: it interesting that one of the Meninda's brothers, people made
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: a big deal because he had to go to the
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: hospital and they called him a wimp.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he did the area.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: It was a kidney stone, and I believe I read
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: it was like a ten or and eleven. The biggest
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I've done is an eight and a half, which is
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the size of a two and a half carrot diamond.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Oh imagine that coming out.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: No, thank you.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So anybody who wants to give people crap for that
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: must hurts well on that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Why don't we just terry, what are you drinking today?
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: We're gonna move on.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I'm drinking this. I am drinking one of my all
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: time favorites, thanks to Double H who gifted me a
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: case for my birthday and just now able to enjoy it.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: So I opened the first bottle and I'm enjoying. It's
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: a twenty twenty two. I thought it to twenty three,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: but it's a twenty two Napavella Estate seven Young Blanc,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and the tasting notes say it's an inviting seven Young
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Blanc with right green wine and grapefruit. I taste none
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: of that in it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, it's just.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: If you like seven Young Blank. It's just crisp, it's refreshing,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: and it literally quenches your thirst, which I find a
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: lot of seven Young Blanks, or we'll talk. I don't, Yeah,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: this one doesn't. So I just say it's yummy.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's a great review for a bottle, and they
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: may not appreciate it, but I do.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I'll send a clip to them since we're talking to
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: them about doing a show there.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Well, tonight, I'm finishing off this bottle of Bella Sarah. No,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: I did not drink. I've been on this bottle for
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: a couple of days, y'all. Okay, So but I'm finishing
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: out and the bottle it doesn't really say much, but
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: it does tell me that Bella Sara apparently means beautiful
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: evening in Italian. So clearly I am now fluent in Italian.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: So that's the way to share about that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Before we go past that. Did I remember hearing that
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: you drank the wine love Spells before we did a
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: show together.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: I did. I did. It was an emergency. It needed
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: to happen, ma'am. No. I was talking to upple Fee
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: because you said they don't sell it around here, and
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: I was like, I think we're going to have to
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: go up to Marian and buy They had a fantastic wine.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: So I think one of these weekends he is off,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: we're going to go back up to seven Wind Winery
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: and get a bunge of wine. Okay, Because I was like, good.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: All, did you love spell without me? I mean I
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: feel a little. I kind of feel like when Double
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: H watches a show, like when we were watching Yellowstone,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: and we weren't allowed to watch it without each other.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I feel like you cheat it on me.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Oh I did, just so.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: You know, spell, I thought you were supposed to be
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: in love with me.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: I did. I did. Don't worry, I'll get more.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: It was an emergency. If it was a wine emergency.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: It was. It was a much if.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It was a wine emergency. No, no guilt.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: You know my life. You know my life. Well you guys.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: With that, let's get into the story of Aton Pates,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: shall we. I know it's spelled, not how it sounds.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: It is, just didn't let everyone know. I learned that
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: the other day. So I'm not having a good week
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: on pronunciations. I guess I've just been replacing Terry.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I could say, everyone's aware I'd never pronounce anything, okay,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: and it's not trying to stole my thing.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: But but it is pronounced Aton pa in case nobody
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: else knew that, And that's okay. If you didn't know that,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: it is not obvious that that's how one would say it.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: So now there, I think the best way to start
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: out the story is by you reading an excerpt from
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: the book after Aton, the missing child case that held
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: America Captive by author Lisa R. Cohen, because it really
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: captures the impact on society when shocking and horrific things
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: such as this one that we're covering tonight happened. And guys,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: this was before we had the twenty four hour news
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: speeds that we have today. Yeah, yeah, let me read
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: that to you all. So it says, like another iconic
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: New York tragedy, Kitty Genovesi's brutal stabbing death in nineteen
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: sixty four, his neighbors turned a deaf ear to her
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: anguished cries for help. The Pate's case didn't touch most
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: of us personally, yet it somehow went beyond the purely
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: shocking to fundamentally alter our collective perceptions and like events
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: of more historical significance, the Kennedy assassination or September eleventh,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Aton pats its disappearance off his own street and broad daylight,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: is a moment frozen in time, a bridge leading us
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: away from a more innocent world where such horror couldn't
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: possibly happen, to a darker one where it did. Today,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: our president doesn't travel unprotected in an open car like
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: John F. Kennedy did in nineteen sixty three. Americans stand
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: acceptedly in long lines as the airport at the airport
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: and uneasily scrutinize the faces around us, And when a
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: scream is heard outside our window in the early morning hours,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: we think twice about ignoring it. Thirty years after Aton Vantage,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: his case has also changed our cultural landscape in ways
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: that we take for granted about our children's safety, their independence,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: our peace of mind. That is so powerful and so true.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And I will tell you I've known this case, knew
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: this case. I didn't know about that book until we
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: started doing this. I actually ordered that book today. Oh nice,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: because I'm scared to read it. Yeah, I'm like, I
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: need to read it.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Also, before we are getting ready to go into the
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: background here, we are going to drop a trigger warning. Unfortunately,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: this case does talk about horrible things that happen to children,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: including sexual abuse. So this may not be the episode
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: for you. And if it's not, that is quite okay.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: You can come back any other time. I mean, it's
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: not going to be overloaded and super detailed, but we
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: do want to preemptively say that it will be talked
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: about quite a bit, So just want to put that
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: out there for our listeners.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to say, I will say, with
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: this being my first case coming back, we couldn't have
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: picked a better case, and if we didn't, I know,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: if we didn't know for sure I would be back today.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I was hoping. But I am going to warn everybody
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: up front another trigger warning. Terry is still very emotional
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: after going through surgery and everything. And just today when
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I was rereading through the notes and going through everything,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I ugly cried and I put on waterproof masscara. So
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I just will let people know I am a little
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: more emotional than usual. And I will say it was
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: triggering to me because it reminded me of why I
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: didn't like missing person cases. Yeah, but now I have
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the other side of the passion for missing person cases.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: But Aton Khalil Pates was born October ninth, nineteen seventy
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: two and New York, Didy to Stanley and Julie Pates. Now, quickly, guys,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: before we go any further, I want to draw attention
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to the meaning of Aton's name. The name Aton is
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: a Hebrew English name, and it's a variation of Ethan,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: which is what I think we're more familiar with familiar with,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and it means enduring, firm, or strong in English. Now
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: in Hebrew, his middle name Khalil means crown or perfection,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: which I find cool. I think even despite his short life,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Aton's legacy changed the way society and law enforcement treat
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: child disappearances. And his legacy is an enduring crown that
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: lives on today.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, it does. So it tears me up. Just you've
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: sang it out loud. I've read it like a billion times.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: It does, and it's just so, oh, what a cutie pie.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not. Oh, thank you on top for the super
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: chat waterproofskia. It's the stuff that makes the eyelashes black,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: but when you cry, and you ugly cry, it doesn't
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: run down your face and make you look like you've
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: been out drinking all night.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Thank you for the super check. Thank you for that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: There's not often that you look at somebody's name and
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: you think, oh my god, how did how did the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: universe make that name? They didn't know this. I mean,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: they may have known crowd or perfection, but they didn't
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: know what it would mean this many years later.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Now, Aton's father, Stanley, was a professional photographer and sadly,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: a collection of photographs that he had taken and his
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: son would be used later in the search for Aton.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know, Oh, it's gonna be a long case.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: You guessed it's gonna be a lot. Now. Aton was
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: the middle child of the Pates family. He had an
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: eight year old sister, Shira, and a little brother Ari,
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: who was two at the time of Aton's disappearance. Is
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: he where a playboy Bunnie shirt? He is?
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: But that was cool back in the late seventies and eighties.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Remember I had shown Cassidy on my underwear and it
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: was his face and nobody thought that was inappropriate. So
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: a playboy bunny on a child back then was not inappropriate.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, okay.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Today, probably not the best idea.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Probably not the best. But it was different times. Everybody
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: needs to remember for sure, during this story it was
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: different times, different times, all right. So they also said
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Ayton was said to be an easy middle child. He
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: actively tried to please, which was a refreshing change of
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: pace after Shira. But he knew the secret ways to
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: annoy his sister, as only a sibling can. My younger
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: brother who's staying with us can totally verify that he
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: was also both protective and jealous of his little brother Ari. Now,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Ayton was imaginative and full of stories, and he dreamed
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: of adventures with his imaginary playmate, Johnny France America, which
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: is such a funny and awesome name for an imaginary friend.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Like that's amazing photo.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: That photo just kills me.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Don't worry, y'all, we'll be getting mad as getting romad.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Tell of a story. Don't worry, We're gonna feel all
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: the emotions.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Now, I think everybody needs to remember this
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: next part. We need to remember what it was like
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: in the seventies and that things were different. I mean,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I was born in seventies. I know things were different.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: But I will tell you with revisiting this case, when
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: you guys decided that we should do it, my first
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: reaction wasn't great. I had a lot of nasty things
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to say, like how could they? What kind of parents
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: were they? And then I was like, Okay, Terry, it
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: was the seventies.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Different times, you know. And I'll be honest, I can't
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: imagine even thinking about taking the what we're going to
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: talk about next into consideration, let alone in New York City.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: But it was actually fairly normal. So no victim blaming here,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: because guys, it was a different time.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: We got to remember, it didn't become an issue until
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: it became an issue.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Well I think, I mean this has always happened baby.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Sat when she was nine. It's now illegal to leave
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: your nine year old home alone. Yeah, so I mean
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: it was just different times.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well what's next.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: So Aton frequently and I will just tell you, guys,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I so remember me doing this in the seventies, asked
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: his parents to let him walk alone to school to
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the school bus stop because he used his six year
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: old logic that, well, my friends do it, and they're
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: all fine, what's the problem with Bob and Dad? So,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and with his first grade year ending soon, he decided
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: he was like, Okay, time's running out here, guys, I need.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: To do this.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I need to do this, And so he asked
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: his parents let him walk to the bus stop.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Recently, due to a bussing strike, Aton had been
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: walked to and from school by Andy Harmon, who was
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: hired by the Pates to do that, and Stan and Julie.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: His parents were uncertain about Aton walking to the bus
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: up alone, but they eventually agreed. Now, there was no
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: specific moment when they decided. It occurred rather gradually, and
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: his parents considered that this experience could help him gain confidence,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: as they had observed both cautiousness and curiosity in his behavior.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, okay, I guess I mean now.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Aton was especially afraid of getting lost, because guys, once,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: at the age of five, he got stuck in the
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: elevator as his mother exited, leaving him briefly separated and
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: terrified until they reunited. Guys, can you imagine, I mean,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I lost my kids in the store, But can you
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: imagine the elevator doors closing and you're second the elevator
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: and you're not with your mom and you're five?
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, let's just think about it. And his mom, Julie,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: said she saw the terrified look on his face as
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: he realized what was happening, and he screamed until the
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: elevator brought him back up to her. Guys, just thinking
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: about that makes me think and realize just how frightened
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: a Ton must have been when he was taken.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, the morning of excuse me, pardon, the morning
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: of May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine, six year old
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: eight and Pates was so excited and probably proud that
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: finally his mission was coming to Fruition. He's a big
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: kid now. He even remembered to bring the dollar bill
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: that he'd earned helping the neighborhood handyman. We'll get to
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: that different point. Despite his mother's advice to put it
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: in his pocket, though, he chose to carry it in
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: his hand, planning to buy a soda at the bodega
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: before catching the school bus.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, Mom, if I put it in my pocket,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: my friends won't see that I have it, and I
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: can't show that I have it and show how mature
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: And a dollar's a lot of money. I mean, that
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: was a lot of money, like a lot.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: So I am telling him Aton, no shame, honey, I
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: would have done the same. No shame. Now. Just before
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: eight that morning, Julie noted it was time to leave
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: for the bus. Aton walked ahead of her down three
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: flights of stairs to the door, waiting for her to
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: unlock the door, because guys, he was still still too
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: short to reach the lock to unlock the door.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Is that not just precious? Just precious. Now Aton left
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: his parents' Soho apartment at one thirteen Prince Street by
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: himself for the first time. Now, guys, it just hit me.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: He lived on Prince Street. In his middle name means crown.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I did not put that together.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: It just hit see add wine, It just hit my brain.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Did not put that together.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: It's interesting.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Sorry, there was that shiny ball. Now he was planning
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to walk two blocks to board his school bus at
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: West Broadway in Prince Street. Now, this is normally about
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: a four minute walk for a kid. He was wearing
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: a black Future Flight Captain pilot cap, a blue corduroy
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: jacket that he had inherited from his best friend, Jeff Limbeck,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: blue jeans, and blue sneakers with fluorescent stripes. Guys, we'll
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: find out he never got to the bus.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah again, guys. Oh look, can I get a little hat.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: It's nineteen seventy nine and this was fairly normal behavior,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: allowing young ChIL rend to travel without adults, particularly to
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: school bus stops or to schools themselves. Okay, and it
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: was a time's case and others such as Adam Walsh
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty one, when parents began to change this practice.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about Adam Walsh's father, John Walsh,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: the host of America's Most Wanted, in our Two Partners
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: episode about John list last month. So if you haven't
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: listened to that, go listen to that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, everybody needs to remember if you weren't raised
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: in those times in the seventies. I mean, I lived
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: in Houston, it wasn't New York. I rode my bike
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: in seventy nine. That was nine at the time. I
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: rode my bike probably two miles to go to the
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: little corner store to get my mom's cigarettes. I mean
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: it was a thing.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Crazy times.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I mean it was a crazy time. So no judgment
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: on anyone now eight times. Mom Julie had spent the
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: day preparing for a family trip scheduled for the upcoming
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Memorial weekend, and she had asked Aton in my thing,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: My mom told me, when I ask you, I'm telling
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you right. So I want to say Aton's mom told
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: him to come directly home from school to help her. Now,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: he was expected to return from the best stop with
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: neighbor Karen Altman, whose daughter attended the same school as Aton.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: By three point thirty pm, Aton had not returned, and
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Julie grew concerned with school buses just back in use
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: after a driver's strike. She thought, okay, there might be
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: a delay. That stuff is a nightmare even where I live.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: So can't wait for a busing next Wednesday. It's going
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: to be great. So she watched from the front windows,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: hoping to spot her children coming up the book.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Now, Julie called Karen Autman, whose windows faced the Pate's Law,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: to check if you know Aton was with her. Karen
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: said no, and she was thinking he might have gone
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: to a friend's house.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Sounds horrible to me. Now.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: While talking to Julie, Karen asked her daughter Chelsea, if
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: she knew where Aton went after school.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then you guys, you know what she says.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Aton wasn't in school today. That's what Chelsea had to say.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: And at school, Aton's teacher had noticed his absence, but
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: she did not report it to the principal.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, I know it was the seventies, but
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I do remember my parents getting calls if I wasn't
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: at school, So I don't know if that was just Houston,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: but I want to know why the school didn't call
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: to say hey, aton's not here to want to check
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: in you know something, Yeah, my school did. Maybe they
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: just knew I was a rug rat and that I
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: was a problem child.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: I mean maybe, And unfortunately the paids had to do
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: the thing that all parents fear the most and report
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: their very young and vulnerable son missing in a city
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: of millions. The fear I could not even imagine that.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I can't either, and especially it wasn't a common thing
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: back then. So Detective Bill Butler received a call at
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: five pint fifteen pm and arrived at Prince Street with
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: his partner by five point thirty. They were then joined
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: by three other detectives. Stand showed a tons photos to
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: the officers, and Julie described, you know, the day's event.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: This is what happened in the morning, YadA, YadA, YadA,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And it was a story sadly she would repeat many
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: many times in the following days.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: In years. Yeah, that is a seventies suit, just saying so,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: just saying.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I love the you know, seventies and eighties, but we
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: don't need to bring that back.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Well. While he empathized with the mother's dress, cases of
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: children failing to return from school on time were commonly
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: due to truancy or extended play in the park. It's
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: never really that big of a deal. Apparently, now, a
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: children's temporary absence might be overlooked by Pierre's parents during
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: routine activities such as preparing dinner, and typically these scenarios
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: resolved within hours when the child reappeared, so they kind
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: of thought, no, this is probably what's going to happen. However,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: confirmation from the school that Aton was officially marked absence
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: suggests that the matter could not be dismissed as a
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: simple oversight or miscommunication. This was the real deal.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry to throw us off track. Kelly p Aquinet.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: What I wouldn't give to have Aquinet again. I had
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the biggest and best hair with Aquinet, and I am
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the reason that the ozone is dying. Just had to
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: say that. When I saw Aquinet, I was like, oh
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: my god, there are some days I would love for that. Now,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: the police needed to confirm a Ton's of absence from school,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: but guys, no one was available on Friday evening of
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Memorial Day weekend. But this officer was a finger. He realized, oh,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I know the custodian, and he you know, called him
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: up they went to the school. I mean that's a
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: good police you know, that's good policing, as they say.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Now at the PS three NX Police Station Annex, a
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: police officer checked school records to verify Aton's absence before
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: requesting backup. Now, the search for Aton began ten hours
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: after he was last seen, and they used nearly one
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: hundred police officers. They even used bloodhounds.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: And the bloodhounds quickly moved between the bus stop and
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Paiates Loft before returning, sparking unproven theories that Aton missed
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: the bus, returned home, couldn't reach the door lock and
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: had wandered off. The dogs then searched nearby SOHO blocks,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: including Ebidelli, Bruno Bakery and the local fruit stand. However,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: the animals, the bloodhounds didn't signal anything useful.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: But they're still good boys, I say say, but we
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: also need to remember it was nineteen seventy and they're
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: still good. To have the technology, they didn't get the
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: training they get nowadays, and they were good boys.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: They're still good boys. They're still boys.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, something just hit my brain and somebody will tell
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: me in the chat. What was the dog's name on
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Dukes of Hazards, because when that photo popped up, that's
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: who I thought of, Ruscoe Pico's dog from Dukes of Hazards,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: the blood hat.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, Terry, I've missed you.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry your.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Picture.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: But there was at first, there was hope that Aton
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: had simply run away or was with a friend. Now, guys,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I have to be honest, and I say to this
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: day that statement that he had run away bothers me.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, I get not.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Wanting to think that, you know, you don't want to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: think the worst, but to automatically jump to that really
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: bothers me because we know it still happens today.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: We let's say it's Flash bye. We I mean producer Amy,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: who's backstage?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: What's Flash the dog? Oh? The dog's name is Flash. Okay,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, woman, and it's a weird name. Okay,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: but that name when you say Flash, Never would I
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: have thought that was the dog's name.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: It did not connect in my brain. So I thought
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Flash was Terry jumping over and asking the dog's name. Well,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: it's my first day back, guys.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: People have graces. Fine's fine grace.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Now what I was saying though I'm bored if you say, oh,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: my son probably went to a friend's house, but don't
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: instantly jump to they ran away, because we still see
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: that in today's time and with doing midday missing it
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: just it goats me, Okay, it just misses me off. Now,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: after an overnight search by police, including a helicopter in
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: harbor patrol units along the Hudson Rigs River from Greenwich
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Village all the way to Lower Manhattan, guys, optimism faded
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: because there was no siding. Now in law enforcement, if
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: you follow true crime, you know that there's time markers
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: like nine hours, twelve or forty eight.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: They're crucial.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Okay. After forty eight hours, recovery chances decrease sharply. But guys,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: for a young child, twenty four hours is the marker. Okay,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: So for getting through the night often signals the start
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: of facing reality. Yeah, and they didn't find out for
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: how many hours? I mean, So it's yeah, it's not great,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: it is, Thank you, Kaptain. I'm glad somebody loves me
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: and missed me.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: And yes, I miss being able to be on the
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: bottom and be the top half of cabins.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Oh you like to be.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: So rain started drizzling on the searchers, and by one
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: fifteen am, when bloodhounds were requested from upstate, any traces
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: of Aton, his prints, or his scent were being washed away,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: because of course that would happen. Then. Now, back at
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: the paids loft, officers compiled names to identify possible connections
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: while reviewing neighborhood maps. Now the phone rang frequently, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: access to local properties was limited by holiday closures because remember, y'all,
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: it's Memorial Day weekend and businesses being closed, authorities concentrated
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: their efforts on residents and workers in the vicinity, particularly
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: individuals who had knowledge of Aton and his family. So
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: it's all looking great.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And if you remember correctly, or if you were a
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: sex and the City fan like I was, people leave
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: New York and go to the Hamptons, they go other
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: placers because it's brutal in New York, and New York
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: kind of shuts down Memorial weekend.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So now the next morning, just three blocks away, Jack
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Limbeck watched his sleeping son Jeff, waiting for him to
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: wake up. You now, Jeff was Aton's best friend and
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: his name was still sewn into the jacket a Ton
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: wore the day before when he went missing. Aton's mother
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: hadn't yet changed the name inside the jacket after getting
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: it from Jack. The boys often swapped clothes between each
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: other and were nearly in disguised indiscat even indisquinguished.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I can't even talk distinguishable.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: You could not tell them apart except sadly, Jeff was
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: asleep nearby.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, look at that picture I'm saying there.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: It was finguishable, thank you, But I mean they could
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: have been twins.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Twins. Yeah, So Jeff opened his eyes, and Jack hesitated
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: to explain, not wanting to worry his son, because how
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: do you have that conversation? And how how do you still?
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: He realized Jeff might have answers and decided he had
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: to act. After a few minutes, he quietly informed Jeff
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: that Aton hadn't returned home last night. Jeff looked anxious,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: and Jack said, listen, we'll look for him now. And
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: the six year old remained still momentarily before rising and
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: proceeding towards the kitchen, and he said, we have to
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: bring him some food and water. He'll be hungry. M
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: that's I hate that. It's so sweet so sweet.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Word spread about Aton's disappearance to Soho residents spending the
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: long weekend at home, prompting broader people getting together and
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: helping the Soho Cooperative Play Group, which had planned its
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: annual picnic that afternoon, quickly pivoted and they became the
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Aton Pates Action Committee. I mean they flipped that switch.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: They sure did. Without access to Stan Pates's photos, about
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: twenty people independently created and distributed flyers with a sketch
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: of Aton, photocopping thousands and posting them around town or
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: handing them on the street, which is what you love
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: to see a community do. Oh, thank you on top
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: X for the super stigger. Thank you you're being so generous,
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: and I thank you so much. Are and I just
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: have to pay. I can't see your face your profile picture.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: It looks like very clear. It looks very similar to
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: my tattoo on my back. So the tiger looking thing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: With the wings, it looks like, oh, so I have
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: a heart with wings that's got stuff on top. Okay,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: but I'm looking at it without my glasses on, and
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, maybe we could be friends.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Well it's some kind of big cat with wings. On topics,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: tell us more about your profile picture.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, please, and the chat tell us some more about that. Now,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: law enforcement officers and local residents but they were participating
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: in the search, were now provided with photos from Stan,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you know, including that picture. Guys, you gotta remember he's
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: a photographer. You don't normally get that. I mean, yeah,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: that's a that's.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: A really good photo. It is because you know, many
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: photos of missing children are very difficult to identify. Often
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: they are unclear images from photo boosts or outdated school
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: portraits that may not accurately reflect the child's current appearance,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: because children literally change within a couple overnights overnight, and
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: I think, I know, I know, little mama, he's gone
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: on his dad's for a week, and it comes back
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: and he's like three inches dollar all the time, and
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I'm like, what is happening? So that is a problem
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: with missing children, now, not Aton Pates. Obviously, Aton smiled
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: in his father's portraits, and his hair detailed by Stan's
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: camera at work, and his eyes just clearly sparkling. These
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: photographs rendered his presence more apparent than that of many
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: other missing children. I mean, these were gonna get people's
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: attention I mean they're very clear, especially in nineteen seventy nine. Okay,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: but you.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Can also meet I see a little bit of personality
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: in this picture.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I yeah, so.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: But I mean to think of your dad, you know,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: as a parent, as a dad. You're a photographer. You
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: take these pictures of your children. Never did you imagine
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: what that picture would be used for?
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: No, you know, side note, side quest here. You know
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: your show mid Day Missing that I watch all the time.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: You know, they'll describe what that person was wearing. And
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: there have been many times where I've sat here, you know,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: where my sons at school, being like, I have no
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: idea what he wore to school today, and I even
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: made him change his clothes and I have no idea.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Oh anyway, I know, And it's something that you don't
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: think about, just like with Aton's case, nobody really thought
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: about what we needed to do when a child went
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: missing because it didn't happen. You had to do it
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: because something pivoted that. And unfortunately all of us go
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: about and live our lives until something happened to us.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And that's why we do give tips at the end
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: of Midday Missing to try, you know, to give tips.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: But you're right if you ask me right now today,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: what even my husband wore today and we're in the
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: same house and he was in the office next to mine.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: I have no idea, no idea, So I have no idea.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Not saying that makes any of us bad parents or
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: bad people. It makes us humans. I mean it makes
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: us humans. Now, Julian Stance stayed at their home, Okay,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: they were constantly filding all of these urgent calls and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: hoping that Aton would walk through the door.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Now, in today's time, social media would have thrown them
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: to the wolves for staying home and not being out searching. Guys,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: we didn't have cell phones back then. It was the seventies.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: We didn't have all that. Now, as Aton's absence grew longer,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: suspicion shifted towards foul play, prompting police to closely monitor
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: both parents separately and assign each a detective when they
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: left the apartment. Guys, let's throw no shame at the police.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: You have to start inwards and work outwards.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: That's true. We're all sorts of cases, not just it's
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: everything utually children for sure, but all cases or wivee's
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: gonna sing. I mean, statistically, there's a reason why now
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: at first, detectives consider the paids to be possible suspects.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: And Julian stand understood that law enforcement were playing the percentages.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: They knew that, of course they were going to be
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: looked at first, and they knew the thoughts of the
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: official right quote, parents kill their children, that's how most
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: of the cases end. And that's freaking true. Unfortunately, still
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: to this day, forty years later, I read about them
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: all the time and it makes me so angry. But anyway,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Julie was also aware that she was the last known
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: person to see Aton alive, another big check mark against you.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Julie and Stan also understood that with no other evidence,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: they both had to be suspects, and they considered this
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: to be the least of their problems though, and they
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: didn't show any resentment to the officers at all. As
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: a matter of fact, they're pretty much an open book to.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: I will say, if you can look at some of
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: the old footage footage today, I mean the grace that
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: they give, I mean that is true. I don't know,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: they have thrown no shade, no judgment they I mean, yeah,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: they are amazed.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: I do find the Pads to be very admirable couple
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: after everything they've dealt with for the last four years.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: As I said, that's why I mean the grace they gave.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: They never once said, oh, if police would have done more,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: if this would have been done they I don't know
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: how they did it, but I am an admiration of them.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, we're going to disagree on things later in
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: the night episode, but either way, I still I mean,
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: you want to believe when you are in their position.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Six s, especially in the early days. Is we're in
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: the early days of the disappearance, because perception changes as
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: time goes on, right, right, So now the couple spent
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: most of their time building phone calls, hoping to hear
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: anything that might help them find their precious a time,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: you know, there was always the chance that one of
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: these phone calls would be that magic call. You know,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: they were hoping for ransom call. But the majority of
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: the estimated five hundred calls a day were useless. They
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: were very nonspecific, and guys, it could have been anyone.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: But I want to say, we tell everybody on midday
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: missing if you know something, even if it's a rumor,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: and it's still call it in. So even though someone
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: called in and said I saw a blonde kid with
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: a woman, I saw a boy with an older black man,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: it's okay. If that's all you saw. It might connect
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: to another tip from somebody else and they'd be like,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: oh crap, we've got these two people. They saw that
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: this address and this address, and they piece it together.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: So I just want to make sure.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: I think as long as it's done with good intentions
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: of thinking you're helping as opposed to wasting people's freaking
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: time because you have your own issues that you need attention.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Those are two very different things, and I don't think
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with the first one, being like, I
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: don't know, maybe it don't help, maybe it won't, but
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: you know, some people are awful.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: So I agree if it's done authentically in the right
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: thing to do it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Because you never know right now. Of course, some sightings
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: accurately described Aton coming from everywhere in the city, and
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: then beyond placing him in fifty different places all at
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: the same time. Then there were the awkward solace calls
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: as well, and the occasional vindictive frame jobs to falsely
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: accuse an enemy because those people are the ones that
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: talking about and they suck, suck, we do you do
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: not like them? Boo on you.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: And they're still out there today. They were there in
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: the seventies and they're sold there. But you also, when
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: you look at Aton's picture, he I could step outside
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: and see ten boys and they would similarly look the same.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, I think and children children, okay, they do.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: They don't have as distinct facial features. Yeah, because yeah, exactly,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: they're still growing, so like you could easily think five
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: or six kids look to say. I once had a
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: time where I was at a store with my kid
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: and it was a different kid that was not my kid,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh wait, never mind, you just
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: go over there. You're not mine because from behind they
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: it's exactly the same, you know, And it was just
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: like a quick like and they was like, oh you're
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: you're not mine.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: You're not mine right now. In addition, guys, their other
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: children weren't even at home. Okay, neither parents spent any
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: time with Ari r Shira. The whole weekend and the
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: days that come were no better. Okay, The two siblings,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: rightfully so, in my opinion, were being you know, sent
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: off to neighbors and friends because they were trying to
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: shield them. Okay, all the while stand and Julie and
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: more questions. You know, they never planned to have to
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: go through this, but they were being asked to know
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: this guy, did atan know him? Could this have happened?
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: So they were trying to protect their other children.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And after Memorial Day weekend, when the local residents
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: started returning to town and becoming more aware of the
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: recent developments, this led to an increase in the search
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: party sizes. So it is a couple days later, but
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: more people came out for the cause. Community members gathered
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: on the street below one thirteen prints and questioned people
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: passing by and engaging both acquaintances and unfamiliar individuals. They
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: were out in full force, which is again amazing because
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: this is not the time where there was social media.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: It was completely different. Well, you knew your neighbors, neighbors.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: I knew all of my neighbors.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: They knew. I mean even in New York they knew.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: And so that's the difference. Now the SOHO residents now
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: felt like they were banding together because they were fighting
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: in unseen enemy guys and sadly, it was with the
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: understanding that this could have happened to any of them.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: You know, they weren't just looking for Aton, they were
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: looking for themselves or their children.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, the search for Aton moved block by block,
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: spreading and growing. The police examined city halls building blueprints
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: for guidance, but face challenges since most the structures were
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: centurial former factories that were not intended for homes. The
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: buildings were structural mazes, and the methodical sweep would be
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: unworkable according to law enforcement. We'll just put that out there,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: according to law enforcement at the time.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: And now I bet you if we googled those locations,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: those have now been turned into loft apartments.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Oh they already were locked departments, I know, but like
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: what do you call them?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Because they were the former.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: At purchase cabin like a modern day that pose. Oh
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: at purchase, Oh okay. I was like going, when they
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: bought it, that's what it looked like.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, Now that makes more sense to me because I'm
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: like going, oh okay.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: Because we see the price on that, which will come
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: next episode.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: So they turned it into the loft. It was still
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: the old factory settings. Yes, okay, because I was going
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: that A long way to go.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Way I interpret that.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: So now, law enforcements spent thousands of hours looking for Aton.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Divers plunged into the East River searching for his remains.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: I mean they were following up a tip from a psychic,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: so things that they probably wouldn't normally look at they
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: looked at. Leads were chased as far as Israel, but
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: no arrest came from those tips.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: No, and when he still wasn't located, Pets's face graced
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: the side of a milk carton, one of the first
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: to do so. After Johnny. I'm meant to look up
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: how to pronounce his last name because I always see
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: it wrong. Is a ghost? I think it's go. I'm
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: very paranoid after pronouncing everything wrong this week. I'm pretty
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: sure it's Ghosh. My brain tells me Ghosh, so we're
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: going to go with that. I apologize if it's not.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: I mean no disrespect, but between Johnny Gosh and Eugene Martin,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: who both went missing after being abducted on their paper
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: routes in the early nineteen eighties, his photos were also
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: projected on screens in Times Square. You guys which I
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: don't know. I feel that if you knew what New
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: York Times Square I look like in the seventies, you'd
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: be like, Ooh, I don't know if you need a
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: picture of a kid up there, But I agree, But
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: that's amazing.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: But if you stop and think about it, maybe you
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: wanted up there because of the type of people that.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Were hanging around that day in that area at the time.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Get there. Yeah.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: So, still with no sign of aton, more tension began
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: to focus on missing children as a whole, especially after
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: the abduction of Adam wash from Hollywood. You know, he
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: was abducted from a shopping mall in Hollywood, Florida, just
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: two years later, which gained national attention. Yeah, and went
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: on to create a whole whole thing. I would love
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: to do an episode on the Walshes. It's just it's tough.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: It's so hard. Yeah, but again, that was a hard
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: one Kiro and I love him. I do too.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: I'm an amazing, amazing man. He has a nobody will
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: change my mind anyway. So four years in and still
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: no pates, and with thousands more children being added to
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: missing persons list. President Ronald Reagan at the time designated
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: May twenty fifth, nineteen eighty three as National Missing Children's Day,
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: which was marking the anniversary of Pates's disappearance and further
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: pushing the issue into the national spotlight. And so we
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: still celebrate that too this day. As a matter of fact,
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: this year five two five two zero two five. What
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: isn't that crazy? It happened now, that is what happened
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: during that Now, six years went by and Aton's body
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: had not been found and no arrest had been made.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: Assistant United States Attorney Stuart R. Grebois received the case
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty five. Oh that was a year I
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: was born, and identified Jose Antonio Ramos. That where it's
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: a picture, Oh that's Stuart. Never mind, I thought that
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: was gonna be Ramos anyway. He identified Jose and Tonio Ramos,
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: a convicted child sexual abuser whose former girlfriend, Sandy Harmon,
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: who had worked for the paces, walking Aton to and
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: from school during a bus strike, as the primary suspect.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: This is important, as you see, I'm getting worked.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Up, very important.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: I also watched Joe eight five. Yeah, I didn't realize
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: I was that much older girl. I'm gonna be forty
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: in like a month. I could literally be your mom.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: I live in the South, I could have been on
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: teen Moms. I suppose that's the case. But are younger
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: than my mom. She wasn't a teen mom, but.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: No, your mama.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: We still got to talk about those cheesecakes. But anyway,
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: she called me today and we talked about it. Actually,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: but never mind, we'll talk about that after the show.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: I going to just say, guys, anyone who's watching this,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: I am trying to work a deal so that all
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: of you, if you can come to our live shows,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: figure out a way that you can taste a little
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: bit of Mama Lama's cheesecake. Kevin, and I'm very picky
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: about my cheesecake. It's amazing and it was heaven. So
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: now let's talk a little bit about Jose Ramos, okay,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: because we have to. Unfortunately, and guys, this is gonna
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: make me real emotional. He was born in the Bronx
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: on July twenty third, nineteen forty three. I share a
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: birthday with this guy. Yeah, yeah, just saying I don't
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: like this, okay, but.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: Not the year just airfly, not like eighty ninety however,
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: many years old. Eighty years old just the day in
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: not the the day.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm sorry, I don't like that at all.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: But he was the oldest of five boys in a
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Puerto Rican family. Now, in nineteen sixty he dropped out
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: of high school and he joined the Navy, where he
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: served during the Cuban Missile crisis. Now he says he
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: was given three medals for his service. But guys, that
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: claim could not be verified. There was no no verification media,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: nobody could verify that. He retired from the Navy and
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: said he worked for a New York ad agency earning
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: big money. Also another claim that can't be verified. Okay,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: because guys, if he was an advertising executive, it'd be
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: hard to explain how he spent the early seventies living
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: like a nomad. He was traveling the country, befriending parents
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: of young sons, and his rap sheet grew quite extensively
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: burglary and battery in San Diego, vacancy and baton rouge
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: and contributed contributing to the delinquency of miners and Aniston, Alabama,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: and exposing his person in New Orleans. This person and
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: guess what those claims are verified? Boom, Now, don't get
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: mad at me, Lama, please don't come through the screen.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I need to say, exposing his person does not necessarily
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: mean what we think it means. Because when I was
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: sixteen in Austin, Texas, I was down from visiting. I
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: had to take a little WII. I went behind a
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: bush and the cops ticketed me for exposing myself.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: Oh so indecent exposure.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: So I'm not paying that, like the case of him
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: isn't the same. But you know me, I always try
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: to be it could have been something as simple as
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: taking a whiz. His case, I don't think so, right,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: I don't, man, but let's not be too judged. General.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: You know, he's innocent until proven guilty on that charge.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: Well sure. Now, in nineteen seventy eight, the year before
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Aton pays his disappearance, Ramos was hospitalized for a few
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: months in Bellevue Mental Hospital I'm familiar to some of
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: you to in New York. He claimed that he had
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: symptoms of confusion, disorientation, and auditory hallucinations. He also said
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: that it was these voices that would tell him to
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: harm others. Okay, that's that's great, great, good stuff.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean yeah, So now, nineteen seventy Eightish seventy nine,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Ish Ramos met Sandy Harmon, the woman that we talked
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: about earlier who was hired by the Pates family to
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: walk their kids to school. They met at a welfare office. Okay,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: the couple, I mean, their love language was different than
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: any love language.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: They would go dumpster diving together for items that could
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: be resold. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna call it early
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: day thrifting.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, I mean, yeah, nothing wrong with it, nother.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: But Sandy was in the Pates home on the day
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: of Aton's disappearance. And guys, we also need to know
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: she would house sit for the family when they were away,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: so she had keys to the house on Print Street.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So Sandy would go on to say, quote, you know,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: when I met Michael, which is what Jose called himself,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: he was a funny, comical type. She continued, we slept together,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: but sex wasn't the main part of our relationship. I
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: wonder why when I moved to the Lower east Side
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: near Fourteenth Street, he got a place in a tenement
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: near Tompkins Square Park. My son really seemed to enjoy
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: this guy's attention. I never saw my son afraid of
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Jose Ramos, so I allowed my son to stay over
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: at his apartment so I could have a night off.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get back to that, but I just have
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: to tell on top, I think all of my exes
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: are in the Bellevue's in Texas.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Oh are they in multiple states? I was not familiar
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: with that.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I the most popular, I think is in
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: New York, but there was small ones, but they would
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: like call it Bellevue Hills or Bellevue Mountain kind of thing.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but I would like to stay all exes
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: are there from losing my love as well. Sorry, I
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: need a little lightheartedness because it's about get a little uncomfortable.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah for me, So I'm sorry, but I'm trying to
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: find a little bit of lightheartedness. During Aton's disappearance, Remus
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: was still selling his dumpster diving fines. But what is
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: really interesting, guys, is shortly after Aton's disappearance was able
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: to go on a twenty two day trip to Europe. Okay,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: he told a friend that he had ten thousand dollars, which, guys,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: that is a shit ton of money in seventy nine
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's like forty five thousand in today is money.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: That is a that is a buttload of money that guys.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: I want to know who here thinks he ere in
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: that kind of money from finding stuff in the dumpsters.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Not me, that's too not me.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Unless somebody a shit threw away a diamond watch or something.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know about that. I'm suspicious as shit.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: But you know what, twenty two days in Europe doesn't
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: cure psychosis, No, it does not. He still heard the voices,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: and it would be those voices that would drive him
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: to live in isolation when he got back. For a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: while he lived in the woods, but he eventually found
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: refuge and a drain pipe in the Bronx. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: Ramos didn't really come on anyone's radar until nine. Oh.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know how this is possible. He didn't really
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: come on anyone's radar until nineteen eighty two, when he
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: was arrested for allegedly trying to lure two young boys
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: into a drainage tunnel in the Bronx that he lived
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: in for a time. And no, it was not like
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: in a cool teenage mutant Ninja turtle way. It's not
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: like that. No, I'm a Ninja Turtle fan. I know
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: that one right. Also, do you think that Penny Wise
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: from It was based on this guy? Because it is
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: very much giving me those vibes, which is terrifying. I'm
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: just gonna put my hand over my screens like you.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I hate Pennywise, I hate all client eunce. Yeah, and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: let's do that photo and let's just get rid of that.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: I would prefer to think of the drainage pipes and
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: sewers in New York to be where Splinter, Michelangelo, Rafaella, Donnatello,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: and Leonardo hung out. Well.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: Fun fact, Cappin looked at up today when she saw
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: my joke, and I don't know if I'd call it
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: a joke, goes more of the shower thought. I guess
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: it turns out that you and King wrote it between
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one and nineteen eighty four or five. I
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: don't know where she wrote that.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I still look it up, so it could be inspiration.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: Covey. I don't know it's wild anyway. Again, sorry to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: interrupt you guys, but this part is so hard. We're
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: just trying. We're doing.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: What what is.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: Up with Kappin? We love her and everything that.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: She anywise is not funny and he's not cute. But yes, guys,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: I give the trigger warning again, just you know, to
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: already it. It gets a little more triggering.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Right, tell us more about his weird place.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Now. His drain pipe was weirdly decked out, guys. I mean,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: I get making the most of your space. I love
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: when people do that. But guys, he had a bed,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: a nights stand, and a bunch of religious items like
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: bibles and crucifix inside that drainage pipe.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: I did not get wet. I don't understand how drainage
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: pipes work.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: I appear apparently I don't either, because I'm like, how
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: did you get the bed? I have so many questions,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: But it's okay, guys. He also had decorated it with
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: peace signs and the rolling Stones tongue logo. Okay, Now
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: he did have some power, some electricity down there, and
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: it was enough to run a lamp. I mean, he
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: does get from me kudos for making the best of
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: his living situation and being created. That is as much
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: as he's getting from me.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, that drain pipe would go for like one point
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: four million dollars today, house hunters.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm assuming the drain drainage pipe was big enough
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: that the bed wedged in that the water went underneath theme,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: So it was kind of like sleeping out on the water,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking. But that little bit of light
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: that he had he gained that because he tapped in
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: and was stealing the city's power supply.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's creative, and it just said.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: I will give him creativity and that's about it.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't how much you give this guy so unfortunately, though,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: there were also some other creepy things in this drain
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: pipe makeshift home of his, such a as children's toys
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: and photos of young boys, most at the age of
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: ten or under. Yeah, the photos were taken in one
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: of those dime store strip machines that will print out
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: for in a row like this picture here. I don't
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: know how many of the young kids see these anywhere.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: They still have them. I don't go out that much,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: so they still have them in movie theaters.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well they were not as cheap probably though.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Oh no, it's like seven dollars probably.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they were cheap as shit when I was a
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: kid too, it was like super cheap. But in many
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: of those photos Ramos posed with the boys with his
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: arm draped around them or hugging them.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not great out here. To a two and
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: a half hour interrogation, Ramos did admit that some of
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: the boys in the photos did look like Eton.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: He also pronounced his name wrong, I mean, even worse
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: the mere Lama would do, because he called him eat
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: in pots, which.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: Is the only thing I'm not going to judge him for.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: I know, I won't judge him on that losing.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: Streak pronouncing people's names this week because I honestly thought
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: it was eating pets. I mean, why would you.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Not, because that is the spelling. I mean, I mean,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: I would think in the two thousands they would have
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: pronounced a different school.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but but I'm not going to hold
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: it against him that he didn't get the boy's names. Okay,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: it's not that suspicious like they want to make it out.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: Everything else is.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: So that would be suspicious as f because we pronounced
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of people's names wrong.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: We do we do now.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: He claimed that he never met Aton and that none
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: of those photos were of Aton, but instead of they
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: were instead of a boy named Jimmy Maamo said that
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: they were just boys that he mentored and acted as
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: a father figure two and that some were from New
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: York and one boy was from New Orleans.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: Who here believes that? Not me? That's who? Not me. Oh,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: you're a mentor mister, living in a freaking drain pipe suit.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, where do you take a shower to smell? Okay,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: to be mentoring running waters?
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: Running water, Terry, it's dirty water now. Stan Pete later
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: said that despite reports, he and Julie were not shown
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: the photos from the drain pipe, which bothers me. I know,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: no parent really wants to see those, but they were
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: reported to kind of look like Aton and I have
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: other reasons why I'm upset with the police, but yeah,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: put it as number one why. I'm like, I'm holding
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: all of that for next week. I was holding number
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: one there. They also said that the police had said
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: that there was no connection, despite the known connection to Sandy.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: That's right, you guys, everything we just heard about this
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: freaking pervert. The police are like, no, it's fine, it's
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: not the great guy, because you know, sure.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Grady asked mentor for what. I don't know. He was
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: just a father figure mentor so made me think of
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Big Boys Big Brothers Club. Not Big brother that's the
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: TV show, but Boys and Girls Club.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: I gotta rush this up. Okay, boys and Girls Club. Yeah,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: I know what you're talking about yet.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: Now, guys, another interesting thing found in his rain pipe.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna call it his dream pipe COSA was a
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: letter from the Social Security Office dated nineteen seventy eight.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: The address listed on this letter was that A residents
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: just six blocks away from the Pate's home on Print Street.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I get all the circumstantial evidence. Oh
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: my gosh. Anyway, the following summer, a detective found Jose
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: Ramos allegedly propositioning three young blonde boys near an arcade
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: on forty second Street. And by allegedly, we mean the
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: cop saw him unzipping his fans, and one of the
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: kids later said that he'd threatened to hurt him if
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: they didn't perform certain things on him. You can fill
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: in the blink, you know what I'm saying. I don't
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: know if we're actually allowed to say that, so but anyway,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: so hey, it's caught pretty red handed at a place
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: called Clayland. Oh there's well, allegedly yes.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: But allegedly the yeah. So a search of Romo's bag
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: turned up a hunting knife and more photos of young
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: boys and guys. This time there was a photo of
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Sandy Harmon's son Bennett. Now a call was made to
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: missing Persons since once again the photos were of boys
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: who looked like a ton hates now. Amost was charged
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: with a tempted sodomy, but the chargers were dropped because
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: the three boys failed to respond to the subpoena.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: Just not their fault.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: It's not their fault. The parents were probably trying to
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: protect I mean, no.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: Forest reasons could be. They could not live at that
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: address anymore. How they could have been a lot of
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: because of what happened to their kids. There's a lot
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: of things.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: They may have gotten the heck out of Dodge and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: left the state. It is frustrating, though, that a cop
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: witnessed this and that wasn't enough.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like a cop saw it is that not enough?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: That's an adult. Wouldn't you think you had taken a
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: one adult over three children's.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, well, I don't know, I don't know if
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: we want to really bring up that point, it's an adult.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: We don't won't necessarily say a cop, but an adult.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: I just I found that to be extremely shocking, and
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: I was very annoyed about it. Now, you guys. The
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: next year, in nineteen eighty three, the police finally got
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: around the questioning Sandy Harmon. Why it took this long,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but she was given a polygraph test
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: and when asked if she had ever been in a
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: car with Aton Pates and Hosey Jose Ramos at the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: same time, she said no, and the results of her
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: polygraph indicated eception. Now for reference, Stan Pate also had
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: trouble pass the polygraph. But that is why polygraphs are
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: not used in court, because they are not really reliable.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: Some people bank everything on them polease, sure love to
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: do that, but they are nowhere near as reliable as
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: people want to think that they are. Numerous things can
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: come into play, and it doesn't really mean a whole
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: lot of nothing to me anyway.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: And that's what I think we need to remember that
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: a light detector test measures physiological responses, not actual deception.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: I've seen those like body language experts on YouTube. Beyond
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: the what I'm talking about But I do not care
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: for body language experts. And here's why, because they will
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: sit there just watching somebody, you know, testifying or whatever
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: and be like X y Z And I'm like, that
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: is literally me all day because of my anxiety, like
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: all day. And I want to say that I'm lying
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: because I'm over explained, like, oh my anxiety and trauma
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: just comes exactly, and I'm like, am I I always
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: deceptive in what is happening. I don't like it. And
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: that's fine.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: If someone tries to get you to take a polygraph test,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: just say no. Say just say no, because they're now
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: finding out even certain meds you take, if you take
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: anxiety meds, messes up your reactions and your heart beat,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: it makes your heart I mean, just don't do it.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: Don't do it and get a lawyer. Ge't worry, it's
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: going to tell you not to do it. Yeah.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: Now, police also interviewed Sandy's young son Bennett, separately from her. Now, guys,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: remember this was in the late seventies early eighties. Back then,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: you didn't have to have a parent with the child
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: when they were being questioned. Okay, Now, After hours of interrogation,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: Bennett told the police that Ramos had molested him. Okay,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: When Sandy was told this, guys, she lost her mind.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: She was distraught, and she insisted she had known. And
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: she also maintained that Ramos had never asked about Aton
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: or her mind. He never said anything suspicious after his disappearance.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Now, Sandy was described by journalist Edward Klein
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: as quote an alcoholic living on the margin of society,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: a woman whose own mother said she had a tendency
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: to suppress things end quote. And no charges were brought
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: against Ramos for the alleged assault on her son. I mean,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: she sounds like she has her own trauma as as well.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: It was the seventies, women weren't allowed to vote, have
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: their own credit cards. Why would we think that she
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: could open her mouth and say what she thought. She
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: was raised to be suppressed. Sorry, fair point. So now
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: soon Romost got his own polygraph test. It was especially
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: worthless since the paperwork wasn't filed for it, little administrative error.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Missing person's detective Robert Shaw said everyone wanted to solve
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: the case for the glory, okay, and detectives were gabbing
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: each other in the back. So basically CoP's pissing contests
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: were going on back then, okay, And when a cop
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: gets some information, he is supposed to type in a
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: DD five, which is a follow up report. But guys,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: let me tell you, the detectives on the Pats case
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: would forget to do that because they didn't want the
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: other guys to know what they were up to.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: How convenient and wonderful love it.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: And there wasn't a DD five. And so I'm just
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: gonna say, law enforcement, stop the pissing contest. Justice is
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: what we're looking for. Who gives a shit? Who gets
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: the glory?
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: Who gives a shit?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: Who gives a shit? It's not like you're gonna get
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: a raise.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: Well, no, it's not true. You can do a shitty
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: job and get a promo promotion in Massachusetts.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: That's if you go over to the con in the world.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like you know anyway. So maybe
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: that's why, despite all these coincidences and highly suspicious behavior
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: that the Bronx Bronx DA Mario Merola publicly dismissed Jose
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: Ramos's involvement, which pissed a lot of people off, including
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: Stan and Julie Pates and me too. Thank you. Yeah, what,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: it's crazy.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're gonna get back to nineteen eighty five,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: which was a good year. But the assistant US attorney Grebois,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: who considered Ramos to be the prime suspect, Grubois, was
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: looking everywhere for Romos and guess where he was, guys,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: anyone want to guess, ding ding ding?
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: Anybody? Anybody?
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: He was in a Pennsylvania parison and you guess what, guys,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: per child Malla station.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, sure, Pikachu.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: Don't bring p Pikachu into it.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, you guys. Ramos was linked to the Pennsylvania Rainbow
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: family of the Living Light, which is a whole different
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole. Go down by yourself. We're not doing it today.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: Oh I give a little snippet, Yeah, just a little bit.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: But you can go do your own. Yeah, it's own
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: research on them. But it was there where he attended
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: and was removed twice in the nineteen eighties for being
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: a gross, disgusting piece of shit. I mean, that wasn't
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: the actual reason, but it's pretty much I summed it
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: up for you. He was convicted of molesting an eight
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: year old boy and a gathering in Pennsylvania now Rainbow
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: Elder Barry Adams helped to identify and convict Jose Ramos.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: Ramos served a twenty year prison sent in the State
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: Correctional Institution in Dallas, Pennsylvania for child molestation. So he
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: eventually does get locked up, and it's just crazy. Yeah.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Now, I had never heard of the Rainbow Family of
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: the Living Light, so I had to go look it up. Okay,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: I had too, because I guys, I thought it was
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: a church. I thought it was gonna be a cult,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: and I was so wrong. So here's what the official
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: thing is.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: It's kind of cold.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: The Pennsylvania Rainbow Family of the Living Light refers to
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: the Rainbow Family of Living Light, a counterculture group that
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: hosts a yearly large scale gathering and now gaining National
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: Forests in Pennsylvania. The group is a loosely organized collective
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: of people focused on peace, love, and spiritual expression who
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: come together to create a temporary, non commercial community in
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: the national forest. Now, guys, sounds like a sick, say cult,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: but they only meet once a year. Can you be
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: a cult if you meet once a year?
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: Of course? Of course. Okay, then they're a cult.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: Now, this will just tell you they're back. They found
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: themselves in child molestation scandals, which got detailed in Vanity Fair.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: M hmm, okay, so we're just gonna leave it there,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: and we're just gonna say it was Ramos's type of people.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, it was. I don't like them, hieat neither.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: I know you're pouring more and I'm like, why didn't
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: I bring the bottle in here with me?
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: Don't worry a long eight thirty in the morning. Tomorrow
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: it's gonna be like you. I don't want to get
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: started on how my day's gonna be tomorrow. I'd make
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: it much sleep today, but was gratilator.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: That's okay, we'll all be watching you.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: I'll just do it. Yeah. So, by nineteen ninety, Grebois
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: was deputized as a deputy state Attorney General in Pennsylvania
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: to help prosecute a case against Ramos for again, you
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: guested sexually abusing children. Man, what a guy? What a mentor?
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: This guy was.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: Guys they do it once, they do it twice.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they don't stop, no matter how many, how
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: much you want to convince yourself that they do, they don't.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: It never happens anyway, greb Bla also hope that this
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: would help him obtain more information about Aton's case. Now.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: When he was first questioned by gur Buah, Ramus stated
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: that on the day when Eton disappeared, he had taken
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: a young boy back to his apartment and touched him inappropriately.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: He claimed, after the boy's boy said, I quote wasn't interested,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Ramos walked him to the eighth Avenue subway and sent
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: him on his way to his aunt.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: Again, that's pretty good circumstantial evidence, okay. Now. Ramos also
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: said that he was ninety percent sure it was the
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: boy whom he later saw on television. As a matter
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: of fact, when as for more details about the boy's appearance,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: Ramos replies referenced Aton. For example, when asked how tall
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: the boy was, Ramos responded, well, how tall was eight
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: in pets, He even said that the boy could have
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: been Aton. Pets. Yeah, you guys, this is what he
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: is telling Grabois. Hello, guys.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: The FBI looked into it. There were no other reported
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: disappearances or sexual assaults of a young boy that doubt. Now,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: that's not to say that a young boy didn't tell true.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Not to say that.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: Thank you, yeah, oh, thank you for the supers. Thank you.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna need it for all the coffee in the morning.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my goodness.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: No, you just need to start with midday moscato.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: Ye I didn't even notice that capin in this picture?
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: Oh did you not notice that?
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: No, it says, imagine for our listeners, imagine having a
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: courtroom sketch of yourself framed. That's a boss right there,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: and this guy indeed does have a courtroom, which is good.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: Good courtroom sketch. By the way, that's impressive. Love that.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: Where were we? Oh? Yeah? So in nineteen ninety one,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: when Ramos was incarcerated, a jail house informant told Greboa
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: and the FBI agent Mary Gallagan that Ramos had told
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: him he knew what happened to Aton. Ramos even drew
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: a map of Aton school bus routes, indicating that he
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: knew that Aton's bus stop was the third one on
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: the routes.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: I'm holding it all in for next week. I'm really
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: trying to hold it all in for next week, Okay,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: so infuriating. Every year, on Aton's birthday and the anniversary
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: of his disappearance, Stan pat sent Ramos a copy of
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: his son's missing child poster, and on the back he
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: typed the same message, what did you do to my
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: little boy?
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah? In a special feature on missing children, the New
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: York Post reported on October twenty first, nineteen nine, that's
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: thirty years. Twenty years.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: Don't make don't we don't do math here at your
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: crimo one time.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: It's twenty years that Ramos was the prime suspect in
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: Aton's disappearance. And it makes sense why he would be hello,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, how many flashing light signs do you need
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: about this freaking guy?
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, my my criminal board would have him on there.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and I would have space on all time square.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: That's what I would be doing. His face goes up.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: There's not everyone, stay away from this guy. He sucks.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: He's a horrible human being. Now, Ramos, though, has always
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: denied that he killed Aton, and no charges were ever
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: brought against him because, according to the Manhattan DA's office,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: they declined to prosecute Ramos because of the quote absence
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: of physical evidence. Now make sure you all put a
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: pin in that right there, for when we get to
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: part two of the story. Remember, they didn't want to
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: prosecute this guy with all the red flags because there's
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: no physical set.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: It is so hard to not go there.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, I've been writing it all day, so it is fresh.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: Shut out. I was at it. I'm like, oh, Terry, yeah,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: don't bring that into tonight.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: Aton's body was never found, Okay, he was declared legally dead.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: On June nineteenth, two thousand and one. Stanton Julie Pates
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: filed a lawsuit against Ramos in New York State Court
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: for wrongful death. Ramos refused to answer questions under oath
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: because yeah, anyway. In two thousand and four, the court
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: ordered a judgment in favor of the Pates and awarded
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: them two million dollars in damage, which, guys, we know
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: they're never going to connect I mean collect no that face,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, all right, every time I.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: Look at it, he's so cute, so cute, and you
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: know they were never going to collect that money. Okay,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: but Ramos, you guys, what released from the Pennsylvania prison
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: on November seventh, twenty twelve, and also remember that day
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: for later. November seventh, twenty twelve, twenty twelve is a
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: big old year. Look at that, Oh God, look at
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: that guy that this fucking Santa Beard face. Oh I
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: hate that so much. Sorry, listeners, I'm see on our
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: YouTube channel looking at this picture of this guy.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: Knowing I hate to say this, I try not to
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: be overly judgmental on appearances. I am run if you
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: see that week I run run.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: Anyway. So he was released from prison in twenty twelve,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: only to be immediately arrested on a Megan's law violation.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: Now see you, when you're a sexophon there, you have
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: to tell the police where you're going to be staying.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: And he said he'd be living with a cousin in
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: the Bronx, but it turned out that address was incorrect
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: and the cousin had no interest in having him as
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: a house guest. Can't blame them, Good for them. But
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: he was eventually released during the COVID nineteenth pandemic, and
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: the sex Offender Registry shows that his current address is
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: in the Philippines. If you know to place a lot
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: of people like this like to go.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: To, and the Philippines states they don't let in sex offenders.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: There you go, there, you go, there he is.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: There's a problem there.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, ask yourself, how did he get into the Philippines. Yeah,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: do they know? Do they know?
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: They probably don't because this guy is he when he's
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: I hate that he even got out my very first
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: time I went to the Philippines because I've been there
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: for business. They didn't even check my passport. They just
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: opened it and stamped it. Uh huh, didn't even look.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: I could have been using your past or Laman, they
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: would have never noticed.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: So there's also a disturbing allegation from Ramos's childhood.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: He was accused by.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: His brother Ronaldo of him being sexually sexually abusing him
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: when he was a boy. Now, guys, however, we're gonna
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: say the brother's not a totally reliable witnessed, okay, because
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: he was charged of child molestation as well. And guys,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: it's not unheard of for abuse victims to become abusers themselves.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: It's not the norm or the status quo.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: It does happen, does But it's oh that's his brother.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: Oh good, I'm so glad. We're putting these fuck faces
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: pictures up for everybody. Fucking ye. So you see them, run, run,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: keep your children away from these people, give them away anyway.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: For what it's worth, here is the claim Rinaldo Ramos
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: told Florida cops after his own May two thousand and
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 3: one arrest for sexually assaulting four boys, that his older
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: brother abused him as a child, as written in a
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: document from the Broward County Sheriff's Department. So this is
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: in the record right now.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: Ronaldo's first, you know, he made a spontaneous statement regarding
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: how his brother killed that eight and pays, the document states, okay,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: adding that Rinaldo told them that he had learned his
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: sibling was a suspect while reading an article in a
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: magazine the library. Guys, I don't think it looks like
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: a god's hanging out in the library to say.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: Ronaldo then said it reminded him of himself because he
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: was the same age as Pate when his brother molested him.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: That's pretty convincing, just Sam. Yeah, Well, when Rinaldo Ramos
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: was approximately ten years old, Jose Ramos took him behind
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 3: a white castle and forced Rinaldo to perform oral deeds
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: on him and a friend, the document says, quoting Rinaldo's
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: interview with officers. When Ronaldo resisted, Jose Ramos slammed a
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: large rock on the top of his head. Knocking him out.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: And you guys, if you don't believe that, well guess
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: what rinaldo then showed the detectives a scar on the
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 3: right on his right forehead area. At least that's what
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: the document says. I mean, I don't know why we
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: don't believe this guy. I mean, they're both pieces of shit.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: It's say it makes sense, it does, it mean means plausible,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: It seems reasonable. This guy's not gaining anything, His brother's
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: not even being charged or arrested for this, So what
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: would be the point of buying agreed now?
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: On May twenty ten, Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Junior
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: officially reopened eighton Paates's case, and on April nineteenth, twenty twelve,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: the FBI and the NYPD investigators began excavating the so
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: hoped basement of one twenty seven b Print Street, which
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: was near the Patess home.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, this residence had been newly refurbished shortly after Aton's
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: disappearance in nineteen seventy nine. So that's a big decade
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: jump there, but important to know, and we'll definitely get
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: into this more in the second episode, I promise, okay,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: And the basement had been the workshop and a storage
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: space of a handyman, the handyman that gave a time
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: that dollar that we talked about earlier. Now, though after
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: a four day search, investigators announced that there was nothing
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 3: conclusive found the handyman Oath Oath Neil Miller had been
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 3: questioned by detectives for the whole previous year, but he
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: denies having to do anything with his disappearance. But as
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: I said, we will explore oth Neil Miller more in
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: part two. Yeah.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: Now, almost two years to the day, on May twenty four,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve, New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly announced that
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: a man was in custody who had implicated himself in
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: Aton's disappearance.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: Also, I want to know, that's the day before what
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 3: National mistakes Children's Day, the day Aton disappeared. Coincidence it, guys.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm that person that tries to give people the
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't necessarily pass the Smith Sniff test to me.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: But a law enforcement official identified the man as fifty
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: one year old Pedro Hernandez of Maple Shade, New Jersey,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: and said that her Nandez had confessed.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and interestingly, the whole world Collft collectively asked who
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 3: the fuck is Pedro Hernandez? Because it's been forty years,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: who is this guy? Now? With that, that is where
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: we're going to end the story right there. I know,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: list Mars, you're so mad at me right now. Well,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: you're gonna have to listen to part two. That's right,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: because you, Terry and I are going to ran a lot. Okay,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: you guys, because this is bad news bears next.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: Week happens, I'm gonna have to pregame. I'm gonna have
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: to have a full glass before because it's we.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 3: May have to dedicate a whole episode to our rants. Yeah,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: it's bad now, very very upset. I'm so upset.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: Oh it is. But before we go, we're not just
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: gonna jump off here, okay. In the story, yes, we
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: do want to take a few minutes to talk about
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: how Aton's case changed law enforcement's response to missing children
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: and the countless lives that I believe have been saved
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: because of his disappearance and the changes that have come about.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: Agreed. Agreed. Each year, approximately four hundred and sixty thousand
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: children are reported missing each year, you guys, based on
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 3: data from This is a Problem Missing Children's Network, which
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 3: averages to several thousand cases per day. Many missing children
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: are found and partially due to the reforms following Aton
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: Pats's nineteen seventy nine disappearance. Oh it's always the stuff
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: that really chokes them when something horrible happens, and good
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: things just come.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: Wow, to help enlighten you a little bit. The reason
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: why the change comes about. Law enforcement gets together when
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: big events like this happen. They do what is called,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: oh my god, it just popped out of my head,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: a debrief meeting to talk about what went wrong, what
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: they could have been done better, and what they learn
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: to help in the future, and all of it's documented.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: So I try to think every time a bad tragedy happens,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: I try to hold on to think, okay, think of
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: what's going to come out of this to maybe prevent
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: it from happening or help us get past it.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: Pates was one of the first milk carton kids Okay,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: appearing on milk cartons to help find missing children.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: It was a method that was later criticized for its
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: limited effectiveness. According to the National Center for Missing and
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: Exploited children. However, they do say it paved the way
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: for improved efforts for like the Amber alert system in
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. But I want to tell you, guys,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: I lived in Houston, Texas. I saw flyers with this
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: milk carton kid photo. So I have a problem with
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: the fact that they say it was and widespread enough.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: Well, why was this so criticized Because if it's limited,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: at least it was something exactly that wasn't there.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: But you're criticizing it now because we now live in
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: the twenty four to seven media society and we stop,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: we don't stop to think, Okay, we're talking about nineteen
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: seventy nine, we didn't have cell phones. This to myself,
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: so I do not approve of that criticism. And I
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: am a huge advocate supporter honestly.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: Think anything you're doing that's advocating for finding missume people
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 3: who gives a shit?
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: Who gives a shit? If you're not out there doing
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: it yourself and you're just sitting over here to playing
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 3: on your keyboard, go fuck yourself. I don't have any
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: social media, so you can't really come after me, but
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 3: go fuck yourself. That's a problem.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: I don't care, And I mean it was something.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: The only problem I have with this picture and y'all
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 3: can come at me later why people think.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: They have to eat cookies with milk. But we're just
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: going to go on because that is just disturbing in itself.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: Oh now that's where the hate comments are going to come.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: That it's going to be about the cookies and milk,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: not about love. Get a glass of water, soda now.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: Another was to educate children with the dangers of being taken. Now,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: this is when I can kind of criticize here, but
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 3: also I don't think it should be criticized because it's
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: important too.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: No one what we knew at the time.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: One such program was the international program known as Stranger Danger,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 3: which was created by the Global Children's Fund nonprofit organization.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 3: And I have my qualms with it, but again, it
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 3: was the first of its kind and bringing awareness of
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: these things. It was important. It was something wasn't perfect,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: it wasn't entirely accurate, right, but it did help. So
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 3: what do I have to say on that? Who cares? Now?
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: Stranger Danger warns that a known adults may pose risk
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: to children. Now, guys, This message was and is widely
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: taught through books, films, and public service announcements. The primary
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: target of Stranger Danger campaign is child sexual abuse rather
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: than kidnapping for ransom kind of thing, but media coverage
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: has increased public anxiety by presenting strangers as potential padophiles guys.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: Evidence shows that child sexual abuse occurs more often within
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: families or people you know.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: Every day, sixty kids some runaway on a lot of
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: kidnapped by strangers or even by people they know. Almost
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 4: twenty thousand kids, twenty thousand kids, one kid at a time.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe your kid on your street, just like Jenny. Oh boy,
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: what a time to be alive.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, rough of gruff. Oh my god, there it is.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: Elbow feet said what I was getting ready to say.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: It's in Kim. Do you know where your children are?
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: Pim? Do you know where your children are?
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: And I get it was a knee jerk reaction to
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: things that happened, but you know what, I would rather
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: you do something and maybe it's wrong and you make
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: a mistake, then sit back and not do a damn thing.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: I don't even think they did anything wrong necessarily, it's
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: just I mean the part that most of it comes
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: from people you know, but I don't think.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: We didn't have statistics and we didn't have all the
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Mathew math.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 3: Then it's true. Well people, it wasn't talked about you guys,
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: it's a whole different time. Well, the fact that people
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 3: are even talking about bad shit happening kids like this
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 3: brand new. Really, it seemed like now as a result
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: of actual statistical data that I was talking about in
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 3: the early two thousands, these campaigns adapted to place greater
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 3: emphasis on the risk post by visuals known to the child,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 3: while still educating children and parents on the need to
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: be wary of strangers because and again I'm not knock
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 3: getting the stranger danger because guess what, in the modern time,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: we still do that. How do we do that with
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 3: our kids in the internet. I tell my kid, my
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 3: little Lama all the time. You don't know these people
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 3: on the internet. They are strangers. Do not tell them anything,
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: do not give them any information. They are stranger danger.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 3: We just look at it differently now in our modern time,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: but it still applies. So I don't criticize stranger danger
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: too bad.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: I will tell you monkey butt those of you that
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: have been here. That is my granddaughter. She was six
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: or seven and we were at walle and somebody said
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: hello to her, and she goes stranger, danger.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: And the gentleman, he was an older man, he was
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: probably like ninety. He looked at her and he goes, oh,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: and he introduced himself with his name and told what
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: military branch had been part of, and he was a veteran.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: He goes and now I'm not a stranger, and she
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: goes danger. I think of it still to this day
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, hey, if something fills off, just because
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: they introduce themselves does not mean they're no longer a stranger.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, and law enforcement's response to missing
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 3: children has also changed. It's it's not still not the greatest,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 3: but it is significantly significantly without it doubt much different
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 3: than at least I think it is. I don't know,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: you're the one with a missing people. I'm not going
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 3: to speak on that.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: But now, in nineteen seventy nine, police in New York
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: City had a limited ability to communicate with other law
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: enforcement agencies about the case. Guys, that was not just
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: New York. That was everywhere. Everything was on paper. Cops
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: wrote things down in their notebooks. So let's not slam them.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: They didn't have databases and stuff. Now, while we the
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: tools in place today helped quickly find and rescue misson children,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: it's more of a commonplace that you have those, including
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: national and international registries for missing young people and emergency
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: abduction alerts. At the time of Aton's disappearance, the landscape
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: for missing and inducting children, they would to say it
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: was less coordinated.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: It was non existent, right, it was non exist. It's
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: not like you could just get back in your squad
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: car and pick up your cell phone and call queens.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: Well hell, I mean, we just learned that even within
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: its own precinct, it they had like they were going
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 3: to call another precinct, get out of here. So oh boy.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 3: All right, well I think with that, let's get to
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: our closing thoughts for this show because we're a little
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: past but uh yeah, that's okay. It's a first show back,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: and what a banger we started out with, right, So
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 3: I'll go first with my closing thoughts for part one here.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: Now, this.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: This case, I didn't really know too much about it.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: I knew the basics, but that was about it until
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: I saw an article a couple of months ago or
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 3: literally a month ago, which you'll learn about in the
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: next episode, and I was like, holy shit balls, I'm
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: going to need to learn more about this, but I
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 3: can tell you in race searching this this case brings
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: out a spectrum of feelings for me. You know, child
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 3: cases are always the worst. You know, their lives ended
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 3: before they even had a chance to begin them, and
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: many of them having to see the darkest side of
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: humanity and what they have to offer before they pass on.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 3: And I just I think that is truly one of
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 3: the saddest, most appalling things ever. Now, you know, I
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: also say here in wonder, like what would Aton have
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: grown up to be? Like? You know, he'd be I
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: don't know how old right now because I'm not the
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: best a myth so somebody did the.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: That for me. But he would be like in a
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: sixty two years younger than me. So I just had
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: fifty five, it'd only been fifty three. Don't you try
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: to put me at sixty Bach would be fifty three.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 3: Currently, by the way, he would have been a grown man.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 3: And what would you have become? Would you become a
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: comic book author and write the Adventures of Johnny France America?
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 3: Because I hope, so I hope he would have I
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: opened a different alternate reality. That's exactly what he grew
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 3: up to do, because in this reality, it was just
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 3: it was very unfair, very unfair what happened to him,
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: you know. And would him and little Jeff Limbeck still
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: be best seats forty six laters years later?
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 3: Is there the things that I don't know these people,
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: but I still think about that, you know? And then
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: then I get pissed about Jose Ramos, all right, and
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: how that guy was able to reap havoc on lives
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: of numerous children across America. I know he only got
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: charged for some of them, but we all, we all know,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: right allegedly, I'm gonna fear rize there were numerous children's
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 3: well before he ever ever got in trouble.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: Oh and he hasn't stopped. No, he hasn't stopped. You
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: don't just wake up one day.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: And how many charges there were numerous charges we didn't
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: even mention. I brought against him, but then dropped because
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 3: the victims didn't testify, which I'm not judging them. These
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 3: are young children, they were boys, which was a very taboo,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 3: and that would have been very taboo. I mean, look
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 3: what they did with the Menindez and that was the
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: early nineties, let alone in the seventies and eighties. Get
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: out of here, you know. And I don't know that
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 3: guy is in the Philippines, and I hope no more
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 3: children are harmed because of him. But if he's still
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 3: walk in this earth, I guarantee you there are still
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: charge children being harmed because of that man. And I'm
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: not ashamed to say that. And I must say, knowing
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: what happens next in this story, it fills me with
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 3: disappointment and rage that perhaps justice was never truly had
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: for sweet little Aton Pets, and that his family is
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: having to entur all of this pain for all of
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 3: these years, you know, the wounds ripping open again and
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 3: again every couple of years, even now, as recently as
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: July twenty twenty five.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: So I just I mean, it's two years younger than me,
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: It was born two years after me. That is my
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: entire life that this family has had to deal with this,
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: That's an entire lifetime.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 3: People, And I got a lot of opinions about the
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 3: next this portion here the problem many and.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: My f mom, it's a problem Now, this case has
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: always haunted me. Like I said, I was nine when
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: he went missing and I saw his face on a
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: milk carton.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: Flyer.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: Guys, I was that obnoxious kid, I told my mom.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't ever want to be that
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: kid on the milk carton, mom. And it wasn't because
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: I hated milk, because I don't drink milk, never.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 3: Have, never will.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: It was it's it's it's me. I'm sure that this
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: kid just disappeared. Okay, So needless say, it never left me.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: And then when you guys wanted to cover it, I
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, it brought up a lot of stuff,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: but I believe in my heart that his disappearance has
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: helped changed so many things about missing kids. So I
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: try to look at that, Okay. I also think his
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: face beyond a milk carton made everyone stop and think,
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: oh shit, that could be my kid, that could be
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: my reality. And in my case, it was like, oh shit,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: that could be meat, you know, and it made us
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: realize that children are not always safe. And guys, I
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: do midday missing. It's not just children. It's not just children, okay,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: but children are the innocence, they are the innocence. They
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: are not making decisions that cause this to happen domino effect,
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: and unfortunately there are bad people out there who want
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: to take in her kids. So this this breaks my heart.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: But I also think talking about this case we help
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: honor him and how we can keep advocating for a safer.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 3: World for children. Agreed.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: Agreed, So yeah, let's wrap up because yeah, I ulloa. So,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: like I mentioned at the top, you can join me
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: at cc Wining Company for that life podcast recording because,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: like I said, we're in coirking the chilling details behind
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: Bastrop's most infamous murder. I mean, I knew about this
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: case before I moved to Austin, so I knew about
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: this when I lived in Houston, so it is a
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: big deal. Tickets are now on sale, but if you
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: are one of our members on YouTube, you get to
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: watch the live stream yourself.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 3: And because Wah will be there to do the audio,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 3: we should have a really good audio, really good audio
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: this time.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 3: Now you guys, before we go. If you like what
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 3: you heard today, please be sure to follow us on
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 3: all of our socials and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 3: It is free, or if you're listening to our podcast,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 3: please follow, download, give us a rating, review, whatever, whichever
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 3: platform you're on, the whatever they ask for, just do
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 3: that because all of that helps us tremendously and getting
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: our channel out there. And again it's free, so please guys.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: But next week we're going to be covering part two
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: of this story, okay, and we're going to focus on
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: Pedro Hernandez, the man that eventually was convicted for the
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: murder of Aton. But's guys, it's not as simple black
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: and white, pink or red as it seems. No, I mean,
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: is he even the real killer? And guess what You're
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: gonna have to join us to find out.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: And I can promise you. I can promise you there
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 3: will be numerous Lomula rants like I am already ready
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 3: to rant right now.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: I'm already ready to rant, but I will.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 3: Hold off till next next Thursday. Now, if you need
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 3: more of Terry True Crime and Now, you can always
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: find us doing something on our True Crime and wind
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 3: Time YouTube channel. While Terry is making your way back
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 3: to the screen, and today was her first big night,
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 3: she is doing things in baby steps, so there will
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 3: be no midday missing until September first, but I almost forgot.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 3: Tomorrow night, a pm Eastern, seven pm Central, we are
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: having a two thousand subscribers celebration party show. I don't
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: know what we're doing. Somebody's gonna plan it while I'm
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 3: sitting here in court all day tomorrow. But it's gonna
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 3: be a great time. It's for everyone, so make sure
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 3: you come, bring your part pants, your party drinks. It's
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 3: gonna be a good time.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: Break your ideas because as starts tomorrow.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, speaking of you, guys, Couge cordat lama Is Beck
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 3: and we are geared up for our next live trial coverage,
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 3: which is Florida versus Donald Donna Adelson. I'm gonna pronounce
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: names right this week. She's a pos I do not
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 3: care if you pronounce her name right. Just call her Donna.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: That's right. It starts tomorrow morning. I will be live
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 3: at eight forty five am Eastern for the next two
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: weeks until like five or five thirty in the afternoon.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be great. No, it is gonna be such
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 3: a highly entertaining trial, you guys, if you don't know it, though,
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: witnesses are characters themselves. We got a family murdered conspiracy.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, it is something and you're unsure. If
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: you're unsure who the Adolsons are, I did a ketchup
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 3: stream this week as we were waiting for the jury
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 3: to be selected. They were selected tonight at six point
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 3: thirty around there. I watched it all day. It was crazy,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 3: So be sure to check that out and get caught up.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: I do say their names wrong, That's fine, leave a
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 3: comment if you want to. It's been a week. Okay,
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: it's been a week. People should spell their names how
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 3: they're pronounced. That's my only PSA for the day. But anyway,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 3: go check that out. Who knows, maybe even some of
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 3: my besties and others might join me for these trials,
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 3: so you never know who might be on with me
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 3: at any given time. Now, if you haven't yet, please
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 3: like this video, subscribe and hit the notification bells so
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 3: you'd all miss when we go live or drop a
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 3: new episode. And Terry, is there anything you would like
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: to say before we go and sign up?
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: I feel more human today than I have in probably
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: seven weeks. I mean, you know, I just had surgery
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: three weeks ago, but we also know there was kinney
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: Stone's tooth all on that and there. I am so
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: happy to be back, and I am just very grateful
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: for everybody who hauled the fork down and did all
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: of this stuff. And I'm glad I'm up so I
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: can watch the Adolpson trial because Donna, I need her
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: to give down.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 3: It's oh, I need her to get down.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a matriarch, but I'm sorry, she gives
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: matriarch a bad name.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: I'll just say this if whoever's listening, even if you're
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: not very into trials, if you were into the Karen
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 3: re trial, this trial too, is also going to be spicy.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: Oh there, you got the same issues, but just as
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: equally like what what's Yeah? What is happening right now?
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of that. It is.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: I mean it's gonna be just like what Charlie's is, Like,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: did that really just happen?
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: Am I watching TV? Is this a big drama?
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 3: No? It was real. I mean even today watching jury's
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: selection was entertaining. I didn't go live with it because
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: I had a lot of stuff I need to get done.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 3: Since I'm gonna be sitting here in this chair every
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 3: day for like the next two weeks. But his lawyer
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 3: or our lawyer, I mean Donna's lawyer. He seems like
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 3: a really nice guy, but both him and the prosecution
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: sounded like they were teaching law one oh one to
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 3: the jurors. It was very it was very interesting. So
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 3: I can't wait for tomorrow. I'm excited about it. So well,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad you're back, Terry. I know everyone else
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 3: as well. We are so happy. You're irreplaceable. Okay, you're irreplaceable.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: I'm tired of holding things up. So I'm glad you're back.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I appreciate it. I'm back, and now you
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: can I will start picking up my slack that you
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: picked up. But I will say it's perfect timing for
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: the trials starting tomorrow, and we have our two thousand subscribers.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a full day. But what a
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: Friday to kick off the week again.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I just realized I'm going to be
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 3: streaming for like fourteen hours.
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: I said, you might want to start maybe mix just
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: get the coffee, put the Kolua in it, and the
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: Carolines are Bailey's up until maybe one o'clock and then
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: start the midday Moscata.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I just found out the big brother is doing
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 3: the wall comp which is an endurance competition. They could
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 3: be on that wall for hours, so I of course
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: have to be able to watch that.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: So oh my gosh. Okay, Well, I unfortunately am still recovering.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: I will be going to bed all right.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you everyone for listening and supporting us. It
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 3: means the world to us. Until next time, take care
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 3: of your mind, take care of each other, and never
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 3: stop asking the hard questions. And until next time, go
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 3: forth and be amazing. Bye.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: Everybody, guys, to stay safe or not. Watch out for crime.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: But most importantly, if you see something, say something, prayer,
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: enjoy your wine.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 3: Okay, are we good now? Yes? All right, all right
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 3: bye everybody, have a good night. M hm
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: M m hm