Latest / The Calcio Guys / Reaction to Italy's failure at EURO 2024 - Ep. 234

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Reaction to Italy's failure at EURO 2024 - Ep. 234 · The Calcio Guys

0:03
This Pilo so so so on a day that was supposed to be a celebration
0:30
of eighteen years ago of one of the best couching moments in Germany. Uh
0:34
where Uh you know, we'll start off positive on this podcast here with the
0:39
roan on the couch guys and Nicholas, but we'll we'll turn a lot more
0:43
negative later. So let you know, let's celebrate this moment from eighteen years
0:47
ago because at this point is the only thing we got going in Germany.
0:50
Uh. First of all, Adri, how you doing doing? Good?
0:53
Man? Happy to be back? Was a bit on a little bit hiatus.
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I guess I wanted to try to be more involved in the podcast so
0:59
I'll be on vacation back home in the Motherland, but unfortunately wasn't the case.
1:03
But yeah, man, happy to be back. Unfortunately not on the
1:07
best terms. But yeah, just I guess that intro maybe kind of ease
1:11
the pain a bit, you know, from what we're gonna be talking about
1:15
in the episode today. But before anything, we just want to wish happy
1:21
fourth to July to all our American friends family listeners. I hope you enjoyed
1:26
the day, and yeah, just happy to be back. Happy, believing
1:30
Canada the day as well. That's true that way. But yeah, eighteen
1:34
years ago today was that semi final against Germany in Dorman, Adrian. I
1:38
don't know if you remember. We watched that game together, and I think
1:42
you had to leave after ninety minutes before extra time because it was dinner time.
1:48
Your mom came to kick you out. I was a bit disappointed that
1:51
we can watch the extra time together. You know, extra time comes along
1:53
and at least scores with two goals, you know, where everyone's celebrating.
1:57
One thing I remember from that day. It was a rainstorm. There was
2:00
a big storm that came along in the evening, you know, just one
2:05
of those typical summer storms. And you know, I'll be honest, I
2:08
don't remember the goals as much, but I remember just the day. Look,
2:13
I remember the weather. I remember celebrating afterwards, obviously, I remember
2:19
more than I remember more the del Piero goal, being happy for del Piero
2:23
because he was one of the players that I actually knew of before the tournament,
2:25
you know, because I had his Uve shirt and one thing, my
2:30
dad told me that so he was at the office that day, and because
2:34
it was raining so they had a TV at the office watching the game,
2:38
but because of the rain, the TV went out, the satellite went out
2:42
or something, and so they had to put on the radio. So after
2:45
Grocer's goal, he's listening. They're listening on the radio, and he hears
2:49
Podolski and then there's a thirty second pause and then hears goal. So he
2:54
thought Germany scored and then only after realizing he found out Italy scored nothing.
3:00
So that's one thing I remember from that day. Just amazing memories. You
3:05
know, we were what you were ten years old, I was almost ten
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years old. Yeah, just core memories, right, Adriana. I remember
3:13
so much of that tournament so vividly, even though it's what eighteen years ago,
3:19
Just that that excitement as a kid seeing this for the first time.
3:22
Too. It was the first time I've really, I ever, really saw
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any of my teams win something. And you know, those two goals in
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Dormant, they're for me. They're as big as anything from the final.
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Obviously, the grossers goal from the finals tops in the shootout, tops everything,
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but everything else was just fantastic from that game alone, And if you
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will look back on that game, Adery, it's an amazing soccer game.
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Even if you watch a final, it's amazing, two talented teams going at
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it, pure tactics, pure defending, just classic. Obviously nostalgia azz a
3:59
factor here, but you know, even if you take nostalgia a way,
4:02
this these these are fantastic soccer games. Absolutely. I mean, like you
4:08
said, that tournament pretty much kicked it off for us in terms of our
4:13
cultural fandom. I mean, obviously you kind of remember a bit of you
4:15
know, you know two o four, we were still pretty young two thousand,
4:21
yeah, you know, we're four years old, so but you know,
4:26
in terms of six, I think that's like we said, like we
4:29
watched pretty much every game together. It really kicked off, Like I said,
4:32
the fandom of of of this beautiful game and really supporting, supporting Italy,
4:38
uh you know, to you know, at its core, so all
4:42
the moments. You know, some people a lot of people say, you
4:44
know, the semi final was better than the final just with the you know,
4:46
the the the atmosphere, the highest, the lows, the ending.
4:53
Obviously the ending of the final is is is what we really wanted and we
4:56
end up getting. But you know, the GOLDI girls saw, you know,
5:00
you hear that even all these years later, and it brings you right
5:03
back to July four, two thousand and six. So it's crazy that it's
5:09
already eighteen years ago. I guess that means that we're getting a bit older,
5:12
but you know, nevertheless, it was just magical moments that unfortunately we're
5:17
far away from in today's national team. But yeah, just like I said,
5:24
just the honking, the waving of the Italian flag in our in our
5:29
area, just you know, watching the games together, you know, in
5:33
your basement, uh on on the uh on the carpeted floor. Uh you
5:39
know, you know, scrapes and on your knees when you're sliding on that
5:43
floor. Uh. You know. It's these things when you're a kid that
5:46
you know, you you cherish, you know, for the rest of your
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life. And we always say, man, these moments are like some of
5:50
the best best times of our lives, so especially as as cultural fans.
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So it's it's funny how we have to every year kind of like bring it
5:59
up again because it brings us back to a happy time. But we hope,
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you know, one day and to kind of rewive this these memories kind
6:06
of once again. But as you know, adults, and hopefully we don't
6:12
have to wait too much longer. Yeah, and obviously seeing seeing them when
6:15
the Euros three years ago is special. Like you said, you're you know,
6:18
we're adults. We understand more, new more, we remember more.
6:24
Nothing beats the World Cup and even winning three years ago. I I was
6:30
obviously very very very happy. But I think one thing I told even said
6:32
on this podcast, they have to go and win the World Cup. Now.
6:35
I want to work and I want another World Cup. I want that
6:38
fair star. I want to create even new memories. And the fact,
6:42
I think the fact that Italy hasn't even played in a knockout game in the
6:45
World Cup since two thousand and six makes everything even crazier. Yeah, like,
6:49
man, that's nuts. They've won one single game at a World Cup
6:53
since then, and that was against England in the opening game of twenty fourteen.
6:57
Yeah, that's insane. They've had so much success in the Euros,
7:01
you know, going to the final one since then winning another time or sorry
7:06
technically okay, they went to two finals and won one of them. But
7:11
a man twenty twenty six, italyst got to qualify. They've got to qualify.
7:15
They got to get their first. But let's focus on the President Adri
7:20
failure. I guess that's the best way to put it. At least performance
7:24
at Euro twenty twenty four knockout in the round of sixteen versus Switzerland. They
7:28
won the first game against Albinia, lost second game against being tied, third
7:31
game against Croatia thanks to a ninety fifth minute goal from Zacani and then the
7:38
knockout punch Switzerland to nothing. Can't say I was surprised by the result.
7:44
I knew the whole time that had a chance to win this. This wasn't
7:47
a pushover game. But obviously very disappointed. More disappointed in the way they
7:53
played, which just they just stunk up the place. And to do it
7:57
on the pitch, the same pitch that Italy won the World Cup eighteen years
8:00
ago. It's almost an embarrassment to those players who gave their hearts eighteen years
8:05
ago and these guys they can't even They struggled for ninety minutes. They had
8:09
what one chance and was off the Swiss defender's head. You know, sorry,
8:13
I was a Skamaka had another chance that he kind of nonchalan only put
8:18
against the post where he thought he was offside, but I don't even think
8:20
he was. There's just so much wrong, you know, versus Switzerland.
8:28
I think for me the biggest issue was Spletti goes into the Croatia game with
8:35
three five two. He saw that the fourth to three to three wasn't work
8:39
getting versus Spain. Goes into Croatia three five to two. It was better
8:43
obviously again need ninety five minutes high to get the point to send them through.
8:48
But if it works versus Croatia and you get the result. Versus Croatia
8:52
and it didn't work for sus Spain four to three to three, what do
8:56
you think Spletti's gonna do. No, No, he's gonna go for the
9:00
four to three to three that clearly didn't work against Spain with guys that haven't
9:03
even started the tournament. At first, I'll be honest, At first,
9:07
I kind of liked the lineup in essence, But once it got on the
9:13
pitch and played is for me that's where it wasn't as good. And to
9:16
be honest, this this Italy team. You could take any position player,
9:22
any position replacement with players, it's the same. The talent was pretty much
9:24
even throughout the team. There wasn't any forty classic players maybe besides the n
9:28
Aruma and obviously defense. You saw what happened when you lost Calafioti. BOSTONI
9:35
was obviously very good too, But I think besides those three, you could
9:39
every player was pretty much replaceable, and that's what That's what happened versus Switzerland.
9:43
He replaced some players, but it didn't work out. It didn't work
9:46
out. Four through three absolutely dominated by Switzerland. They they were pressed against,
9:52
the midfield sucked. Brella obviously looked hurt. Is just a failure on
10:00
so many levels. I think, obviously I'm you know, blame everybody,
10:03
everybody but don Ruma. But it starts at the top, right, it
10:07
starts with Splatty. I think he was stubborn with his tactics. I think
10:11
he tried to force the four three three. You know, a national team
10:15
coach, then you're not a club coach. When you're a club coach,
10:16
you decide yourformation and you ask your your director, gave me players for this
10:20
formation. When you're a national team coach, the FIGC comes to you says,
10:26
this is the list of players that are available to play for Italy.
10:28
Make your best team and at the same time, we know who was in
10:33
Marchillilippi that said, you know, it's not about bringing the best eleven players,
10:37
it's about bringing the best team. And I think splay field with both
10:41
these weren't the best eleven players. This wasn't the best team. So it's
10:46
just very frustrating all around. Listen, guys, I haven't been on the
10:50
show for a couple of weeks now, so I don't know, I haven't
10:54
been able to really express my my my anger. I guess you can say
10:58
to all this Listen, guys, the Knicks, right, you know,
11:01
and I'm pretty sure Johnny and you know our former guests said it as well.
11:05
So just I don't even Embarrassing isn't even the word for me. I
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can't even there's not even a word I can I can say that is,
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you know, sums up this this euro campaign for Italy failure. We're gonna
11:20
probably label this episode of fail with, you know, the failure of Italy
11:24
again, which is just a shame, because it's truly a shame because I
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do think that you know, these players, uh you know, for the
11:35
most part, are of quality. I just didn't think it was able to
11:37
like were able to get it right, like wind everything together and get it
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right, you know, for me, forget the results, forget the score
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lines, forget you know, Spoletti, this SPOETI that you know, Gravina
11:52
out you know, f I, G C. Whatever like. For me,
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it started with up here mentality, the mentality from the get go,
12:01
from twenty two fucking seconds in was already out the window. We got scored
12:05
on against Albania and the first match was it twenty two twenty three seconds.
12:09
It's a record for the euro you know, just off of that, the
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mentality, the sluggish, you know, attitude on the pitch, you know,
12:22
the non chalant you know, loose balls, the fifty to fifty balls.
12:28
It might as well have been one hundred to zero because we we had
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no chance on those fifty to fifty balls giving the ball away, you know,
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if it wasn't for And again I'm going to take back what I said
12:39
about the county. You know, we on our before we before the tournament,
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we obviously we spoke about you know, the call ops we thought maybe
12:46
should have been cut and all that I thought the county should have been that
12:50
that one of those players has been cut just for the moment that he had,
12:54
I guess I have to eat my words. But if it wasn't for
12:56
that moment, we went even made it. You know, out of the
13:01
group, we would have finished third. We wouldn't have been high enough to
13:03
be one of the better third place teams and would have been out outright,
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So we wouldn't even be talking about this. We'd be talking about even a
13:11
bigger failure, a bigger disappointment and a bigger embarrassment. But for me,
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like I said, out you know, out the window with the tactics and
13:20
all that, you know, bs, for me, it started with the
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you know, the mentality, with the attitude. It's a it's a big
13:28
shame because I think these like I said, these players, you know,
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for the most part, these players are of quality. You know, I
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think they did. You know, at least they looked like they had like
13:39
a pretty decent group in terms of like them meshing together. You know,
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three years three four years ago, we had we had you know, I
13:46
would say, like again, quality players, you know, decent. Maybe
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people can disagree on certain players whatever, you know, some guys better than
13:54
the other whatever, But they had a group, and I think that was
13:58
the biggest thing that was a to even though maybe the quality in certain people's
14:03
eyes wasn't there, the group really out you know, outperformed that and really
14:07
carried carried them to to the promise line. I think this team had,
14:11
you know, the pieces in place. I just don't think it was able
14:13
to you know, put it all together and uh and and have you know
14:18
the you know, the final piece that we that we wanted. So you
14:24
know, I know a lot of people were I angry when you know the
14:26
news came out of Spaletti stay uh and and they're gonna stick with Spalletti.
14:31
Honestly, I'm not. I'm not on that train of Spaletti out right off
14:35
the get go. Uh. It's under a year he's been in charge of
14:39
this national team, after what he had to take it from, uh,
14:43
the short time that he had. It's not an excuse because this is a
14:48
this is a big you know, this is a big failure. It's no
14:50
excuse. It's no covering spot these ass But at the same time, I
14:54
don't see Italy changing managers every time. We can't be serious a serious need
15:00
if we're changing changing coaches every every time something goes wrong. You know,
15:05
so because, like I said, it's always the grass is greener. On
15:07
the other side, I don't see a realistic option out there right now that
15:13
would take over this national team and make it yeah, big three, big
15:16
one eighty, and everything's gonna be you know, you know, perfect well,
15:20
stick with Spoleetti. He has a contract until twenty twenty six. I
15:22
need to see him improve. Obviously, twenty twenty six is a big year,
15:28
a World Cup year. We need to qualify for the World Cup first
15:31
off, already that's a plus, and then we'll see where it goes from
15:35
there. But in terms of this tournament, like you said, Nick,
15:39
besides Jujo Dona Ruma, who I think saved us time and time again,
15:45
and the players in front of him did him absolutely no service at all.
15:50
Defense, midfield attackers. I think we had what one goal by a forward
15:56
in Zakhani in the ninety six minute zero zero within ninety minutes, zero within
16:02
ninety minutes. Uh, Skamoka nothing, Red Teggi who got I think a
16:08
little bit less of a shot than Scamaka, even though he started one of
16:11
the matches. Nothing. Uh, you know, Raspadori terrible, you know
16:21
what, it was just a clusterfuck. I think because every game besides Donald
16:26
Ruma and who I guess, the Arenzo because he played the Arenzo in every
16:32
game and Bostonia. You know, it was a few pieces that were like
16:36
locks, I guess you can say. But every other, every other,
16:37
every game, it was a different lineup. We had no consistency. Uh,
16:44
you know, no, nothing, It was just it was always changing,
16:47
everything change every every game. I get it. You know you're able.
16:49
It shows that you're able to adapt and change and whatnot. But if
16:55
we don't have if we're going into a tournament and we don't even have established
16:59
our best eleven, that's a problem. That's a it's a it's a big
17:03
problem. We should know from before the tournament starts match day one against Albania.
17:10
We should know our best eleven players for the Italian national team according to
17:15
what we saw in this short Euro twenty twenty four journey. We didn't find
17:22
or we didn't know, or we didn't have our best eleven players on the
17:25
pitch at once, and we didn't I can't we can't even name them.
17:27
We wouldn't like to name who we think they are and who we want them
17:30
to be and what formation and and you know what toxics should be done.
17:34
But I don't think anybody had an idea. You know, calor Fiori comes
17:40
out, emerges and has a has a pretty good tournament. You know,
17:45
it's good to see young Italian defender. Let's pump the brakes, guys.
17:48
He's no Maldini, He's no, he's no Nesta, he's no Canavado.
17:52
The pictures online maybe he looks like them, but he's no. He's nowhere
17:56
near unfortunately not yet that we but I don't think he'll ever make it to
18:00
that. You know, don Aruma, I think as a captain stepped up.
18:07
You know, a lot of he has a lot of love hate relationship
18:11
within the Italian community. I think he stepped up big time. He saved
18:17
us, like I said, time and time again. Without him, without
18:19
Zakani's goal, just those just those moments and those you know, those miraculous
18:25
saves. Like I said, we would be talking about a bigger failure,
18:29
uh for for the Azuri. But you know, besides that, there's really
18:34
not much more to say. I mean, it's a shame because I think
18:37
even though we finished second in our group on paper, our path to potentially
18:44
a semi final could have been possible on the side of the side of the
18:48
bracket that we that we were on. We're on the right side of the
18:51
bracket all most of I don't want to discredit, you know, the Netherlands
18:56
and you know and England and all that, but for the most part,
19:02
the heavy hitters were on the west side of the bracket, you know,
19:04
the Spains, the Germany's, the Portugal to Frances of the world. So
19:11
you know, it's it's a it's an opportunity missed. I think in terms
19:15
of just that alone, if we would have had anywhere near some cohesiveness and
19:21
consistency, like I said, I had predicted, you know, a semi
19:25
final finish, I think it could have been impossible if everything was put right
19:29
together. Unfortunately that's not the case. We're talking, you know, after
19:36
disappointing exit to the tournament, you know, in in kind of an an
19:41
angrily state, which is a shame because, like I said, I think
19:47
more could have been possible in this tournament. But I hope with this failure
19:52
they weren't from it. Uh, these players, a lot of them will
19:56
be sticking around that I you know, I think you know they're still young
20:00
core. There's still young guys to incorporate into this into this national team,
20:06
you know, you know, going forwards. But what he's still going to
20:08
be at the helm is still going to have his role and you know,
20:15
the coaching staff is going to be where it's going to be at the end
20:18
of the day. You know, I don't think anybody performed. And like
20:22
you said, Nick, I think the blame is not only on one singular
20:26
thing. People are gonna say, oh yeah, the f IGC. They're
20:27
backwards, guys. We know they're backwards. We've been saying they're backwards for
20:30
how fucking long. It's that hasn't changed. We we know, we get
20:36
it. What has changed is the managers and what has changes the players over
20:40
the years. Unfortunately in this tournament, no, you know, not the
20:45
coach or the players. We're able to get onto the same page and produce
20:49
like we know they could have. You know, DiMarco hell a player free
20:56
into this season, shadow of himself, don Aruma. I don't know what
21:02
type of season he had for for PHG. I know he gets a lot
21:04
of flock. He had a hell of a tournament. SCAMAKA not the best
21:10
start, had a great finish to the year. Europa League champion. A
21:15
ghost, A ghost. I'm sorry, guys, and I and I like
21:18
Skamaka and I've said it on the show and I'm not going back on what
21:22
I have said about him because I like him as a player. He has
21:25
all the all all the uh the attributes as your prototypical number nine. A
21:32
ghost Reteggie I like him as well. Didn't get maybe the opportunity, but
21:37
at the same time did get the opportunity and still didn't do anything with it.
21:41
So you know, at the end of the day, a ghost De
21:45
Lorenzo DoD Mian Barella besides the first game, uh, just shadows of them,
21:56
shadows of the of the of themselves. You know, De Lorenzo two
22:00
years ago scudetto winning champion as a captain Fornopoly. Hell of a year and
22:06
I've always liked the Orenzo. This season the best season this euro I'm sorry,
22:12
terrible, just terrible. Darmian, Oh yeah, guys, people are
22:18
calling for Darmian to get into the into the mix for what for what he
22:22
did he what did he do better than the Orenzo did and and what anybody
22:26
else did? Nothing like he was terrible, hisstante terrible. Guys. The
22:30
list goes on. Everybody was just terrible. It's you know, besides the
22:36
aura of of color, Fiordy, like I said, and and and Jijo
22:40
donna Uma? Who else was who else was a positive on this I it's
22:45
hard to name any other positives. Uh, I don't get an average.
22:52
I was gonna, I was gonna get to him, you know, you
22:55
know for me? Uh you know? He yeah, okay, average,
23:00
yeah, not the Kisa that we know. But he was not. In
23:03
my opinion, he's the only he's one of the only ones that showed to
23:08
try to attack and try to get some sort of creativity going because everyone beside
23:15
around him was terrible. But you can only create so much on your own
23:18
when you have Skamaka who again I like, but in this tournament terrible.
23:23
Was he ever in the right place? Was he ever available for a pass?
23:27
The crosses that were coming in he's six' five, guys. That
23:32
means the crosses that we were putting in Colin reached his head at six y
23:36
five. They were going over his head and they were touching DeMarco or they
23:38
were touching the Horenzo on the on the on the wing back position just just
23:42
terrible. I I didn't I'm not gonna go crazy on Kieza because I think
23:48
the attackers he had the most, you know, I guess the best of
23:55
the ship. If that makes it, that makes any sense, he had
23:59
he had the best performances out of out of all the shitty performances that were
24:03
shown on display. But we need more from these types of players. Guys.
24:07
These players are like I said, I think there are a quality.
24:12
No, I don't think we have any forty class. Like we've said.
24:18
People are gonna argue maybe the Dona Luma is in that category as a keeper.
24:22
Okay, fine, we can, we can say that, but this
24:26
isn't twenty twenty one or twenty one Kieza. In this tournament. We didn't
24:30
see that. No, we didn't see in my opinion, we didn't see
24:37
Bastoni Barrella di Marco d'armian inter on this on this a Juris squad. We
24:44
didn't see that that season that they had for inter phenomenal Chapeau. Okay,
24:49
yeah, it's the snakes, but yeah, we'll give them their flowers.
24:52
They deserved everything that deserved this year, but they didn't perform like that for
24:56
the Ajuri None in my eyes at least, and for me, I don't
25:02
even know why DeMarco was on the bench. He benched DeMarco like again,
25:08
maybe he didn't have he had a bonehead mistake. Okay in the Albinia game.
25:12
He didn't play up to us to a standard, But I'm pretty sure
25:15
he's better than fucking Darmian on the left back position. At least he gets
25:21
some sort of a threat. DeMarco with that left foot, he can put
25:23
in a ball, he can take a shot. Just guys, I think
25:27
it was, like I said, a mess a clusterfuck from the get go.
25:32
Nobody was on the same page. Change of formation every game, change
25:36
of lineup every game. Uh, we didn't know if we were coming or
25:41
going. The mentality was terrible. Guys. These players were wearing the Adzuri
25:51
blue shirt. It looked like they were playing I don't know, pick up
25:56
here in Montreal. It was crazy. The the amount of how do you
26:02
how can I say this? The amount of weight this shirt has. It
26:07
showed that these players weren't able to wear this shirt because this shirt, like
26:14
I said, weighs a lot. Many legends have worn it, many moments
26:18
have happened in it as we open the show with it shows that either A
26:22
these guys don't have any balls, or B they weren't prepared, or see
26:27
they're just not of quality. I guess we'll have to let everybody decide what
26:33
is what. But just frustration, embarrassing failure to sum it all up.
26:38
Yeah, I have like three things to say after all that. You know,
26:42
one thing, Kass played on the right side. He's been playing on
26:45
the left side for you for the past three years. You know, I
26:48
know he played on the right side in twenty twenty one. He also had
26:51
a proper knee in twenty twenty one. You know, Kisa after his injury,
26:56
We've said time and time again, is not the same kiser him on
27:00
the left side. He's a left winger. Uh, some guy named Orselni
27:03
was left at home as a right winger. There was no proper right winger
27:07
on this team. Heck, you could have brought Bernardeski and he could have
27:11
fit into this team better than some some other guys. If you're gonna go
27:15
for four three three, you need a proper left winger. You need a
27:18
proper right winger. What are you doing forcing Kys on the other side.
27:22
He's he just he just doesn't have that same explosiveness to to to be versatile
27:27
from all over the pitch. So if he's gonna stand this team moving forward
27:33
and Splete wants a four three three, Kiza has to play on the left
27:36
side. He has to understand. This is like twenty twenty twenty one,
27:40
Kisa. Another thing was Spiletty Adrie. You know, I I posted some
27:44
stats on Twitter. His record with Italy is pretty it's pretty sad. It's
27:52
fourteen games, seven wins, uh for, four draws, three losses.
27:59
Some guy named Jianpiro Ventua sixteen games, nine wins, four draws, three
28:04
losses. So the difference is two extra games for Ventuita, two extra wins.
28:11
Very in Tuita Splitty is just a good looking Ventuita, That's all he
28:15
is. The ideas are rather lack of ideas. Are reminded me of that
28:18
period with Ventuita. What fault how many years ago? Now? Seven years
28:23
ago? Jesus Christ seven years ago? Wow? Damn uh. And it's
28:30
almost like like, you know, you think back to that Sweden game with
28:33
Ventuita d ROSSI telling him to put on putting on in seniggas and need goals.
28:38
It almost feels like maybe some of the same conversations were happening against Switzerland,
28:42
where you know, some even some of the substitutions made didn't make sense
28:48
starting, you know, starting informations just didn't make sense. It's just a
28:52
lot of it just didn't make sense, and you know, it's frustrating.
28:56
But I will give Splity the benefit of the doubt here and that he's been
29:02
coached for less than a year. One thing the FIGC made a mistake of
29:06
was keeping Mancini too long. Yeah. I love Mancini, I respect Mancini.
29:11
I thank him for you know, all that he did from twenty eighteen
29:14
to twenty twenty one, winning the Euros, that amazing streak. But after
29:18
they won the Euros, he too became stubborn. He's stuck with the same
29:22
guys, He's stuck with the same formation, and that's why they didn't make
29:26
the World Cup. The figc's mistake was not firing him after missing out on
29:32
the World Cup. They let him stay on for the year and then he
29:36
leaves in the middle of the qualification cycle and Spletti comes. Okay, he
29:41
finishes the qualification cycle, just just date. You know, he's you know,
29:47
back to comparing vent Tuta and Spletti. Vent Tuda finished second in the
29:49
qualifying qualification group that involves speed for you know, we knew Italy was going
29:56
to finish second in nine group. We knew they were going to have to
29:57
go through the playoffs, and that's what happened. Ultimately, where they failed
30:02
was in those two games Againt Sweden for Splecty. You know, he got
30:07
lucky because you finished second in the group, you still qualify, as simple
30:11
as that. And that's what happened. And they finished the same amount of
30:14
points as Ukraine at fourteen and they qualified because they won one game versus Ukraine.
30:18
So you know, if this was a World Cup qualification cycle, Italy
30:22
would have just simply had to go for another playoffs finishing in second place.
30:26
But again, you know the fact that yeah, less than a year to
30:33
prepare. It goes back to your point, like, who's your starting eleven.
30:34
You know, one thing with Mancini, you know you could look back
30:41
on on starting eleven during the qualification campaign for your twenty twenty and it's very
30:47
similar to the starting eleven in the final of your twenty twenty. You know
30:49
that those core of players were there, that four to three to three was
30:52
there, SPLECTI didn't have that. So you know, part of it is
30:56
on just time. Part of it is on split team, not you know,
31:00
grabbing the bowl by the horn and coming up with that that that team.
31:04
Uh So for me, that's what's frustrating. At this point, it's
31:08
clear that he's gonna stay on. Yeah, they announced he's already already done
31:14
in dust. We already know, so you know, you know, we
31:17
could came scream and complain about him, but you know, it's it's a
31:21
fresh cycle. Now. There's Nations League coming up. There's six games against
31:25
France, France, Belgium and Israel with the all international breaks of September,
31:30
October, November and then next March. Depending on their Nations League results,
31:37
the World Cup qualification could start already, you know. So for me,
31:41
honestly, these these games coming up in Nations League, they're important straight up.
31:47
I want to see success. You know, maybe in the past we
31:49
we could have you know, a bit a bit lighter on Nations League,
31:55
especially in the group stage in terms of importance, but for me, this
31:57
is important. This is important to get your results, get a team identity,
32:00
identity going, get guys going, and first of all, make it
32:06
out of the group. But finish in the first in the group, because
32:08
if you finish first, your least guaranteed of a playoff spot in world qualification,
32:15
so or at least giving yourself that safety net in case they don't finish
32:21
first or top two in the in the group. I forget how the groups
32:22
are gonna work for the qualification. So finish first and that group go out,
32:27
go play the quarterfinals in the Nation's league. Go out, maybe go
32:30
win the thing? Why not? But you need that structure. You know,
32:34
it's fine to experiment, and it's it's good to Maybe the Nation's League
32:38
is the time to experiment. But once that's done, he should know who
32:44
who is eleven to fifteen guys are for whatever information he chooses, whether it's
32:49
a three five two or four three three. Moving forward, that World Cup
32:53
qualification is huge, straight up massive. Like you missed the back last two,
32:59
the last two Will Cups. You can't miss this one. And at
33:00
this point, AG I'm not even like thinking Italy's gonna be in the World
33:05
Cup. Go through the qualification first, do the qualification and then we'll talk
33:09
because it's sad. It's sad that we've missed the last two World Cups and
33:14
and you know what, it losing against Switzerland. It kind of shows this
33:20
is the team that's missed last two Cups. It's not the team that won
33:22
the Euros. It really isn't. Nine of the twenty six guys were on
33:27
the you know, only nine of the twenty six guys were even on this
33:29
team. Out of the starting eleven from the from the final against England,
33:34
what there was don A Ruma di Lorenzo Burrella, Georgino Kiza. That's five
33:44
five guys who are still on the team. You know, it's crazy.
33:49
It's a different team. You know again, Oh thanks again for the memories
33:53
in twenty twenty one, but I think I think they held onto those memories
33:58
a bit too long. We're we're out of holding onto the memories as fans
34:02
the page page. We saw that right in the qualifiers against Switzerland and right
34:07
after where missus the pellty two pennies. It's rustating. It's it feels like
34:16
that euro win has been the best thing to happen to them and the worst
34:20
thing because this team is so up and down. And you know, Adriw
34:24
we've been doing this podcast almost six years. We've seen the missed Old Cup
34:29
and winning Euros, Like you can get more up and down than that.
34:35
We saw the missed two World Cups, and well we started, we started.
34:38
We started the podcast after the missing the first one. So yeah,
34:42
it doesn't really count. Okay, I thought I could squeak it in there,
34:45
but I remember we Yeah, I felt like we were doing the podcast.
34:51
We spoke about it, that's for sure, and we had we had
34:53
all kinds of things to say then. But uh, no, guy like
34:57
you said, like you have to turn the page. It's enough enough.
35:00
I mean, like you said, I agree. Uh, you know,
35:02
as fans, we can hold onto that pass and we can we can share
35:07
the videos and the pictures and the moments and and laugh and share those these
35:12
moments amongst ourselves. But these guys have to have to turn the page.
35:16
I thought the page was going to be turned, uh, you know with
35:21
Spohetti coming in, But again I don't think again, it's not an excuse
35:27
to to kind of save spot these ass but you know, the cards that
35:30
were dealt with him so fast, you know, put anybody pretty much.
35:35
But you can put anybody there for the most part, and maybe you can
35:38
get a bit of a better result, better put on the field, maybe
35:40
you can advance maybe to another round to the quarters. Okay, fine,
35:45
but at the end of the day, like like, there's not much more
35:49
we could have. Really, we could have asked for a lot more.
35:52
But at the end of the day, with the time that he had with
35:54
the you know, these things need time to to to to you know,
36:00
get right, you know, we don't want to talk about six man you
36:04
know, or just even you know, the Euros in twenty twenty, twenty
36:08
twenty one whatever. They had time to gel together, to be a team,
36:14
to be a core, to be a squad, you know, to
36:16
to have these moments together, to really grows as a group. You know,
36:23
we didn't really have We didn't this this group of players didn't really have
36:27
that. You know. We players were coming and going, you know,
36:32
call ups. For the most part, we kind of knew who's going to
36:35
be called up, but there was always some sort of surprises. So yeah,
36:38
man, we have to figure a lot of things out. I mean,
36:42
hopefully this disappointing euro is a blessing in disguise once we talk you know,
36:47
further down the line twenty five, twenty six, hopefully all this is
36:52
a blessing in disguise and we can kind of look back at this and say,
36:54
damn, I guess we needed that to kind of turn this page and
36:58
turn the chapter. That's the only thing we can really hope for going forward.
37:01
I mean, the rest is on is on what team company. We
37:07
have to put our faith in his hands and uh to kind of make the
37:10
right decisions to kind of, like you said, figure out, figure out
37:16
a formation that you want to stick to or if it be one or two
37:22
whatever, just being able to know that you have the eleven players to put
37:27
one or two of those formations and be able to interchange and be comfortable having
37:31
those guys in the positions, uh, that that they need to be and
37:36
not putting people out of position and not you know, you know, foot
37:40
flopping from formation and tactics every game. We need consistency, you know,
37:47
from from from start to finish. But all that to be said, we
37:52
need this mentality to change also, because like I said, that's my biggest
37:55
thing in this episode. It was the mentality from the from the get go
38:00
with this with this squad. Once these players understand and realize what it means
38:05
to where the au you know, the better off they're going to be.
38:10
Uh. The longer that takes, I think it's gonna be more painful results.
38:14
Unfortunately, the mentality needs to be there. You need to spit blood
38:19
for this squad. I saw no blood being spot by anybody. Uh,
38:24
you know, So I don't know what it's gonna have to take to kind
38:29
of get the mentality and the attitude correct. I think maybe just more time
38:32
hopefully can can kind of do that. But yeah, I don't know.
38:39
Again, I know it's a long season. Uh, you know, we
38:43
always say it. You know, these players play a lot. At the
38:45
end of the day, we know that we already know that you're going into
38:49
a tournament year. You already know where it's gonna be. You already know
38:51
how it's gonna how it's gonna turn out. So these players need to be
38:53
prepared and ready to go and and and take these tournaments seriously, because,
39:00
as we said, when we when we don't, we can get embarrassed and
39:02
we go into this tournament as reigning champions. I saw no reigning champion DNA
39:09
in this year old campaign like at all. You know, so I think
39:15
that's another embarrassing point in terms of going into the tournament as reigning champions again
39:20
disappointed all like that. And it took a ninety six minute tying goal,
39:23
not even winning goal, a time goal two to get us out of the
39:29
group and into the round the sixteen. You know, it's a shame,
39:32
I you know, like you said, the Nations League. Yeah, I
39:36
mean, I don't know, there's still time for that. I need to
39:40
kind of, I guess, regroup and kind of you know, get my
39:44
thoughts together. But figure out your core group of players I think is the
39:51
biggest thing. And I know, you know, Sky had put out an
39:55
article about, you know, all the revamp of this national team. Who's
40:00
what players are are most likely to stay and who's not gonna call up again?
40:04
This that in the third But if they want to incorporate you know,
40:08
other players and maybe younger players and kind of get rid of that old guard
40:13
that has kind of been just nagging along just because of the name, I'm
40:17
on board. Okay, great, but we need to do that now and
40:22
not like you said, Nick, pull another keep my chiney on for too
40:28
long? And then we get screwed in the in in in the end.
40:31
If we want to get rid of Georgino and company, you know, Darmian,
40:35
Chadby and whoever else you want to get rid of and not call them
40:37
up and not keep them in your plans, we got to do that now.
40:43
Like we got to make that clear from the get go. We got
40:45
to go into what is this September you said, for the for the first
40:49
international break for the Nations League. We got to get this this current core,
40:55
this new core, whatever you want to call it, put together a
41:00
sap and and and start working that way, because we're never going to get
41:04
forward if we're kind of just keep on putting you puzzle piece here there.
41:07
Okay, maybe I'll take this and put there band aid. It's not gonna
41:10
work. So yeah, I just just it's almost like redundant to say all
41:20
this, but just needs to be better. And I listen, I'm hopeful.
41:23
I always try to be optimistic with the jury. It's it's we can
41:29
yell and scream all we want, but at the end of the day,
41:30
guys, what we saw on the picture is what we what we had to
41:34
endure, Like there's not we can't change that now it's it's over. Unfortunately,
41:38
you know, like I said earlier, it's a shame because I think
41:42
our side of the bracket could have been feasible. But yeah, hopefully it's
41:46
a lesson learn going forward. Question from our friend Peter Hike out your lover.
41:54
Should Italy stick to information with a three man defense? Should gravine and
42:00
be sacked? And was it a major mistake of spilt to leave the local
42:04
tlli If you know mine, I'll go. I'll just go through the three
42:07
of them quickly. Three man defense. Yes, I do think, at
42:15
least for this tournament, it felt like the players he brought was to play
42:19
three five to two. So you know, Spiletti has to make that decision
42:23
three five two or not, and and he has to make that decision and
42:27
stick with it. And you know what, at the end of the day,
42:30
these are informations on paper and what happens on the picture in the game
42:35
is fluid. Even when Italy, even in twenty twenty one, it was
42:37
four to three to three, but Adrian we saw Dow it was fluid.
42:40
It was a four to four to two at times, it was a five
42:44
four to one at times you know, players move around. They're not they're
42:46
not stick figures. This is not bubble hockey. Here, one thing I
42:54
I kind of would like to see. I know Dharmian wasn't good, but
42:58
he is that kind of guy who where he could play right back and a
43:01
center back. So he can't play. He can't play you there, No,
43:06
but maybe if you have a Darmian prototype and any younger and better version,
43:09
you know, calf let's do what is this fucking career or career mod
43:15
would fucking be a pro? No? Jen whatever? No? Yeah,
43:21
okay, better and a faster one. Okay, great. Yeah, we
43:23
had Calafiordi who was on the pitch, and Cambiaso came on when the Desperate
43:29
measures and bell Lovo we never saw. Yeah, and I'm sorry, yeah,
43:34
I get your point, but I don't think it's fable at least one
43:37
of the If you're like, if you're gonna three men back, my point
43:39
is maybe one of them, if they could play a bit more wing back.
43:42
Okay, maybe even califiory you do that. I do like the three
43:46
five two inter had success with this this year, but the amount of interplayers
43:51
it brought it felt like he was gonna play the three five two, So
43:52
yes, I would prefer the three men back. We do have good center
43:58
backs straight up. You know, I would have liked to have seen no
44:00
more. We didn't. We didn't. We didn't. We didn't see it.
44:04
We don't even think he didn't play at all. That sucks. I
44:07
can't remember, Like I thought he would have been a piece in in that
44:10
three, in that three man back line and kind of have to bounce off
44:14
to what next point. I don't mind the three back, you know,
44:19
if if it's the three back, if it's going to take the three back
44:22
formation a center back formation to kind of uh highlight our players' best qualities,
44:30
then I'm all for it. But you know, unfortunately we didn't get to
44:35
see a young Scalvini in this tournament due to injury. We didn't see Bjorno
44:38
even though we got called. I thought we would see him in some sort
44:42
of fashion. For me, it's a shame. Would have been better than
44:47
my genie. Yeah, I mean I don't really I'm not a fan of
44:52
either, but you know, it just I don't know it. Just we
44:57
already know we didn't get it right. We can say we want to see
45:00
this and that on all we want, but it just it's unfortunate that to
45:04
just go off your point. We didn't see you know, the best players
45:07
in that in that formation, that could have worked better than what ended up
45:10
happening. The other part, Should Gravina be sacked, I mean he's no,
45:17
one's really his boss. He's the president, he's voted in. Yes,
45:21
he should be sacked, but no, you know, it takes an
45:23
election to kick him out, so hopefully, but I don't see it happening.
45:29
You know, he has a stranglehold on the FIGC. He's in bed
45:31
with you, with Youfa. It's because of him that it'll even got to
45:36
host the Euro. They're gonna get to host Euro twenty thirty two. You
45:39
know, I don't see him going any anywhere soon. Unfortunately. And was
45:43
it a major mistake of Splitty to leave a localatelly No, like he left
45:46
him out. He left him out. He's not a game changer. Loka
45:50
Tally wasn't gonna win as the Euro No, unfortunately. You know, looking
45:53
back, sure he probably could have done something in this team, you know,
45:58
but for me, the biggest mistake was leaving Orceleni at home straight up,
46:04
you know, especially if they had no other right wingers. You know,
46:07
sure you could ask, Okay, who would you remove based on the
46:12
tournament performances? Probably elsehoe are we Maybe I hate to say it, but
46:15
maybe in Bellnova just because he wasn't even used at all. So if you're
46:21
going to bring a guy you know and not use him, just leave him
46:24
at home, you know. I think back to twenty twenty one where Manchini
46:30
said he got to think he was part of Italy nineteen ninety team and he
46:36
didn't play at all, and it sucks for him. Maybe maybe I got
46:39
the year wrong and he wanted to make sure that every single player played,
46:44
and every single player except for Murrett played in that tournament. Yeah, at
46:49
least one minute, and I think that was awesome. Obviously it helped that
46:52
they played seven games, and that their third group game they already secured the
46:55
group and they were able to rotate the squad. But you know guys who
47:00
didn't play, Yeah, Bellova, didn't he see the pitch? Did he
47:09
play at the end of the first game against Albania or No, I'm trying
47:15
to remember now. I don't if he did it, it's not coming to
47:20
my to mind. I don't know. I just maybe he did. At
47:24
this rate, I guess it doesn't really matter. But yeah, gat he
47:29
didn't play, but I'm not surprised. I mean he was there because of
47:30
injuries. Yeah, obviously the two backup goalies didn't play. I think that's
47:38
it. I think for me, bell Nova and when were the two ones?
47:44
And okay, maybe if he did get minutes, I don't know,
47:45
but that I was, you know, would I wanted to wanted to see
47:51
I think that on a fuller Runco came in. Uh are two of the
47:57
players that if I'm upset that anybody didn't come in, where would be those
48:01
two guys? Because I think, you know, bon Jorno, I would
48:06
have liked him to see him that three back formation. Uh, you know
48:10
with Bastoni and color Fiori. I think on paper it looks good. I
48:15
would have liked to have seen it in action to see if it really could
48:20
work. And Belanova again kind of like a Cambiaso. Who again, I
48:24
don't think he had a I know a lot of Juve fans will hype him
48:29
up. He didn't really do anything special either, but the whole group didn't.
48:31
So it's nothing personal to him. But I would have liked to see
48:36
a Blanova try something else, like you know what I mean, Like he
48:40
tried Cambiaso to bring him in as a winger slash, wing, backslash.
48:45
Who even knows where he was playing? At times it looked like he was
48:47
playing the right wing position and he was playing the left. I don't know.
48:51
He was all over the place, which I didn't mind getting in getting
48:53
him in there. Why not do the same thing with Balanova. We need
48:55
a right winger. He's not not on our right winger. But Jesus Murphy,
49:01
like you, you tried everything else, you didn't put him in.
49:04
Like I would have liked to have seen those two guys in, uh the
49:07
two too, players I think could have not gonna not could have now wouldn't
49:12
have changed maybe much, but just to see, like with our own eyes,
49:15
like is this a possibility going forward or is this just uh, you
49:22
know, overhyped from from what we see uh in the and what we see
49:25
online. But yeah, to also answer Leader's question, the one I agree
49:31
with Nick and Localatelly, there was there could have been a lot of other
49:36
players picked, and Local Telly could have maybe even picked two. But at
49:39
the end of the day, I don't think these players that were not called
49:44
up in the grand scheme of things, I don't think would have moved moved
49:46
the needle too much. I think obviously our biggest one was ORCELINI We've said
49:51
it, you know, many weeks ago. But again, how much more
49:54
could he really? Would he have really moved the needle in in this group
49:58
when the mentality was offrom to get go In my eyes, not much.
50:01
Uh, maybe could have scored a bit more goals, but how many goals
50:07
did we score? Five four, three, three two one? Like,
50:12
how many goals did we score? We scored? One? Yeah, three
50:15
right, yep, three three four if you count your own goal from califiory
50:23
or if you're yeah, so right there. I don't think anybody else would
50:30
have moved the needle personally, am But yeah, at the end of the
50:37
day, just just embarrassing guys like we sound like booking records, but it's
50:44
just that's what it is. Embarrassing. Yeah, I don't know, not
50:49
much more to say. And it's a shame because you know, you would
50:52
you would have thought that having a guy like before in the in the in
50:58
the mix in the locker room kind of would have given these players a sense
51:02
of you know, like I said earlier, what it means to wear the
51:05
Adzudi shirt. Unfortunately, it just I don't maybe I don't know if that
51:07
didn't get that didn't sink in. I don't know. Having that as see
51:13
back in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one with Mancini, you know, maybe
51:16
kind of did something for that squad. A lot of older players in that
51:21
squad too, so maybe they you know, want a veteran so they kind
51:22
of maybe kind of understood what it meant. They also had guys on on
51:28
that squad, you know, the killings of the world to kind of keep
51:31
these guys in line. But I don't think we had anybody to kind of
51:36
keep is there anything? I don't think we had anybody to keep these guys
51:38
in line. And I thought, I thought the presence of of of the
51:44
fun I know, I know, his role is, you can whatever his
51:46
role is, you know, the title of his role, it could be
51:50
whatever it wants to be. But just his presence in the room, in
51:53
uh, you know, in the in the ambiance over there, I thought
51:57
would have paid off a bit more. Unfortunately, unfortunately that was in the
52:01
case. But I'm glad to still see him sticking around. I hope now
52:07
that this lesson hopefully has learned, can kind of get these guys on on
52:10
on track, you know, mentally and physically, because they all I don't
52:15
know about you men, but like I said earlier, like they look sluggish,
52:20
Like who really moved beside like for me, besides Kieza when he came
52:24
on as a sub and when he when he had his little spirts of uh
52:30
in his little moments there, who else really moved? Like Like, everybody
52:35
looks sluggish. Like Johnny's point about Scamaka looking like a fridge as a number
52:40
nine was true. In the end of Yer, he would he stood still,
52:45
he gave away the ball. He might have had a couple of moments
52:51
where he had back to goal, kind of was able to bring up the
52:53
play, make up, make a pass out wide and kind of try to
52:57
get into a position. But sides that, I don't know, man,
53:01
nobody really moved. Everybody was sluggish, So I don't know, we need
53:05
to re Maybe we unfortunate Conte is a not so we're not gonna be able
53:08
to get the Conte training regime into the d to play with these players.
53:14
But he would, he would shape these guys into you think, yeah,
53:21
well, you know one thing about Ale I think he's he's at a stage
53:25
in his career where his tactics don't work over a thirty eight game season,
53:30
but they could work over seven games. And you know one thing about he's
53:36
a tactician. He knows the other team, He studies the other team,
53:38
and he he he kind of bases that his tactics off of that, and
53:45
he would whip these players in the shape you think he wouldn't. He wouldn't
53:50
give these stupid press conference quotes. Guys, you know we can't play PlayStation
53:58
No, no, no, we need a good mantal reality guys on ball
54:00
look at me. You know that's one thing I I'm pissed off about Spiletti
54:07
because philosophical press conferences Womani forty siny forty woman day believe steiny day, I
54:15
believe. Well, you know what the channel you were, woman DEBI here
54:21
in this case goes the what's the horse racing, hippo? I don't even
54:30
know horse racing it I forget the word. Understand horse racing. You only
54:34
have to win by a millimeter. That's all that counts. For and I
54:37
don't care. I don't care if we win in every single game one nothing
54:40
with the ugliest brand of football. I want to win again. I want
54:44
that word, I want that fifth star is not coming anytime soon. It's
54:47
just a yeah, it's not for me. I don't know. That's listen.
54:52
Maybe maybe you're right, Maybe you're right, but I don't I don't
54:57
want to. I can't see it. I don't see it. I don't
55:00
here the national team. Yeah, just maybe it's you know, recency bias
55:05
and just what have you been able to put out as performances as a manager
55:08
in Sadiyah. Maybe that's skewing my uh, my vision and my my,
55:14
my decision on that, But I don't know, it's just not I don't
55:19
know. That scares me. I don't know. We need to identify,
55:22
like I said, our best eleven, what type of uh what type of
55:27
formation we want to play in or formations we want to play with, and
55:30
the type of football we want to play. We don't know if we're coming
55:34
or fucking going. We don't know if we want to play attacking football.
55:37
We want to be defensive, we want to have a whole possession. We
55:40
don't know, we don't know. These questions still haven't been answered. And
55:46
how long has he been in charge? Eight nine months? How long has
55:50
it been? I don't even know it's under it'll be a year in August,
55:52
so eleven months. Eleven months okay, uh okay, so we're almost
55:59
there under year. We still don't know if it coming or going. So
56:02
for me, I think only after then, Like if Spoetti doesn't qualify for
56:09
the World Cup, okay, that's that's now. We saw for their own
56:15
eyes, let them go. But for me currently right now, like I
56:20
don't know if what train you're on, Like I know you say the everything,
56:22
but like like after this, like were you on the side of get
56:28
Spotty out right away or were you keep him on until twenty twenty? Yeah?
56:31
He failed, he failed, so you wanted them you want him out,
56:36
yeah, but at this point, but you had to get him out.
56:38
You have to get him out on Sunday. At this point they made
56:43
the decision. Now you stick with him. No, No, I don't
56:46
want to see Splety gone in six months from now. He's your guy till
56:51
through the twenty twenty six qualifying unless something spectacular happens, because as I said
56:55
before, you know, it was a mistake with Manchein and kemp him on
57:00
after twenty after Niciana and the World Cup, he didn't go through with these
57:05
coaches. You've got to go through the stages, right, you got you
57:09
gotta you know, now, sure the qualifying won't start till at least March,
57:15
and now that there's gonna Nations League, but for me, now starts
57:19
the World Cup qualifying phase, simple as that. And he has to stick
57:22
with it through twenty twenty six. Have that mentality going. You can agree
57:28
that's to good point, you know, unless unless there's some backdoor conversations happening
57:32
right now you have actually maybe you give it a couple of weeks, but
57:38
you got to make a decision to stick with it. But you know,
57:43
one thing I want, you know, I want to talk about before we
57:45
end. There's a lot of talk about development of players. Right In said,
57:50
yeah, you know, obviously this is something that we're not experts on.
57:54
We don't we're not coaches, we're we're not involved in the day to
57:57
day youth development. And it's tough because Italy just we don't have the talent
58:02
that we used to have. Twenty years ago, as simple as that,
58:07
and we don't see any young players coming up. You know, there's there's
58:12
gonna be so many factors, right even just in general, Italian population is
58:15
just an aging population, more older than maybe other European countries, and maybe
58:22
there's not as many kids playing soccer, you know. Obviously, I think
58:28
as a whole, the city as is a bit behind other leagues in terms
58:31
of not only just player development, even just TV contracts, stadium development,
58:37
just overall talent. And you know, I think for me, what I
58:42
would like to see is players leave Italy straight up, you know, goal
58:46
play elsewhere. You don't look at look at look at friends. They have
58:50
players playing all over Europe and they get these yeah yeah, sure the French
58:58
league is not that good, but they could still go play and play,
59:01
go and play for PSG, but they don't. You know, let's still
59:06
they go and play all over. The national team is better than the national
59:09
team's fair even in a way Spain. You know they have guys in the
59:14
EPL, they have guys obviously a lot of them do play in La Liga,
59:19
but they they get these opportunities elsewhere. Right now, these Italian players
59:23
are are sticky in Italy, which you know, sure is nice, but
59:28
you think, you think even you know, a guy like Marco Ferratti didn't
59:35
play a single game in the city, you know, developed by Piscata and
59:38
and goes elsewhere and has this wonderful career playing in France. Now he's playing
59:45
playing in Saudi and he's a player that Italy missed. And you know these
59:49
zeros. So if you know teams aren't going to invest in youth development,
59:55
let these guys go playoffs far. You know one thing, obviously, if
59:59
you're going invest in the use of youth development, you need investment, not
1:00:01
so not just from one team, but you need investment from all the big
1:00:06
teams. You know, Inter is making money from Champions League is making money,
1:00:09
Melan's making money and happily has more money. Now set up these these
1:00:15
youth programs and not just to develop some TikTok players who are going to make
1:00:20
fancy tricks on TikTok, but develop your players who are going to play for
1:00:24
your first team or you're gonna sell for thirty to forty million to maybe a
1:00:29
foreign team. And you know it's tough because on one end, people say,
1:00:34
oh, these teams aren't giving you with players a chance. I don't
1:00:37
think you should give a player a chance to play in the city at just
1:00:40
because he's young. You should give him a chance because he's good. And
1:00:45
to be good when you're young, you need better development at a young age,
1:00:49
and it starts at the seven eight nine year old level. It doesn't
1:00:52
start when they're fifteen sixteen. You throw them in city app playing against men
1:00:57
who are double their age, they're not going to develop like that. You
1:01:00
know, Juve as the next gen, which has been good. You know,
1:01:05
it's developed some players like fad Jolie and and Retti. It's fine,
1:01:08
but they're playing in City at Chi, which is kind of a garbage league.
1:01:13
You know, it's not that good of a league City Chi uh and
1:01:15
they kind of just flote. The're sure they do have the opportunity. If
1:01:19
they do in Citichi, they would go up to City B. But how
1:01:22
much are they really developing in that league? You know, why not have
1:01:28
maybe a U twenty three league. You know, you take these U twenty
1:01:31
three teams and you know, Meelan gets one, inter gets what Napoletue gets
1:01:36
one, and maybe you have like a six to ten team league. From
1:01:38
from these bigger, bigger clubs. Maybe that that's the thought. Uh,
1:01:43
you know, thank thank god for Atalanta because they seem to have the youth
1:01:46
development nail down pretty well, you know. And you know, one thing
1:01:52
also is there might there should be more cohesion between the clubs. Obviously there's
1:01:59
such a big rivalries in Italy and the clubs hate each other, right,
1:02:02
but if you want success on the national level, you need you need management,
1:02:08
you need organization from the top coming from the FIGC, organizing these clubs
1:02:14
together, coming up with ideas together, and not having just Juventus come up
1:02:17
with their Uventus next Gen and then everyone else doing their own thing. You
1:02:23
know, it just it's a collective effort. At the end of the day,
1:02:29
we all want to see Italy win, you know, I understand it
1:02:34
from a club's perspective, for you vague they don't want other teams to have
1:02:37
their own next gen teams and they're happy that they're the only one. I
1:02:42
don't know if they're the only one with the next but I figured, yeah,
1:02:47
there you go. Uh you know, I know, like in reality,
1:02:55
the clubs really give a shit about the national team. Probably not.
1:02:59
They want to make money. They want to go out and win Champions league,
1:03:01
win city themselves. But there should also be anive incentive. Maybe,
1:03:06
hey, what if a team developed develops his player, develops a player who
1:03:12
plays let's say twenty to thirty games in this in a city season, they
1:03:17
get some money. If it's a homegrown player, you know, maybe bring
1:03:23
back the quotas. Maybe you need a minimum of three homegown players. But
1:03:27
then it goes back to my point that you don't just give a player a
1:03:30
opportunity just because he's young. You know, I don't. I don't think
1:03:32
that's the way to go. It's not FIFA guys. You know, he's
1:03:36
not going to get xped points and and grow just because he plays. It's
1:03:39
eighteen nineteen. We see that with a player like Miretti, who was good
1:03:45
at the youth level. Then he's he comes up to city and he's he's
1:03:49
good, he's fine, but he's not strong enough yet. So you know,
1:03:53
have a proper development system. Go to Speed see what they're doing.
1:03:57
Go to France, see what they're doing. You don't get ideas from these
1:04:00
other countries. Stop being so closed, mind, it stops some being slow
1:04:03
subborn, simple as that not so simple it's actually not so simple as that.
1:04:10
You know, but you know, I know, some random guy from
1:04:14
from Montreal. But maybe you follow Hockey's Hockey's development programmer, you have junior
1:04:21
levels and then you know set like you know, players well from junior to
1:04:29
let's say AHL before going to the NHL. Maybe you need a bit more
1:04:31
progression like that. Well, I mean they kind of have that, right,
1:04:35
Yeah, that's true in terms of prima verda. And then you get
1:04:39
into these you know, like you said, the next gen leagues or the
1:04:44
you know, the under twenty three points that achieved, and personally, I
1:04:46
think, I don't know, Yeah, okay, it's a garbage league.
1:04:51
But at the same time, it's these these guys are what under the age
1:04:55
of eighteen probably I don't even think half of them, don't even like it's
1:05:00
under twenty three, but like none of them are really like close to that
1:05:01
age. So they're pointing against guys that are a lot older than them.
1:05:04
You know, you're nineteen twenty years old, you gets you're playing against you
1:05:08
know, thirty year old city of cheap players. I think I think it's
1:05:13
that's still something personally, I don't know. For me, get like I
1:05:19
don't know, getting getting having I guess I don't know. It's tough to
1:05:25
say, because like there should be a way to have your league and your
1:05:30
national team both have success. Unfortunately, I don't know what that formula is
1:05:36
because I don't think getting rid of all your Italian players and then go abroad
1:05:42
is going to a strengthen your your your your your your league, and b
1:05:47
it's not a guarantee that they're gonna automatically be better just because they go to
1:05:50
the EPL or they go to the La Liga or they go to the Bundesliga.
1:05:56
It's not that's not a guarantee, just like it's not like guarantee in
1:06:00
your own league. But at least you know you're in your own league.
1:06:02
You can you take that fault and you can kind of make try to make,
1:06:05
you know, change that and change that narrative and make them play and
1:06:10
whatnot. At the end of the day, seed, yeah, it doesn't
1:06:13
make their young players, young Italian players play. Some do to a certain
1:06:18
extent. We've seen it. Okay, we get it, but you know,
1:06:25
there's too much of a discrepancy between the top teams and the middle,
1:06:28
middle of the table teams and the bottom teams. Like there's no like I
1:06:30
can agree with what you said there there's no cohesiveness from top to bottom.
1:06:36
You know, there's such a gap from you know, the Juventicies of the
1:06:40
world and you know the I don't know, the Comos of the world now
1:06:46
that are coming into sea, or the you know, the Parmers of the
1:06:50
world, the Venetza's of the world. Right, so you know, I
1:06:56
don't know it's for me, it's it's we can This is like almost like
1:07:00
a dead horse. We're beating with this development thing. But at the same
1:07:05
time, I think it has to start within before it can kind of grow
1:07:10
to more than more than what more than that? Like, you know,
1:07:15
not every story is going to be the Vedatti story and for and for that
1:07:18
matter, if it wasn't for the Euro that he won. Yeah, he
1:07:24
was a great player and a great talent for us, but it was always
1:07:28
that nah, you know he was injured, you know, uh, you
1:07:31
know France, the phg is always holding them back a bit. There was
1:07:33
always that narrative around him. Loved him as a player. He did great
1:07:38
for us when he when he was on the patroon and not injured and stuff.
1:07:41
Like that. But I don't know. I think, you know,
1:07:46
there needs to be more opportunity for these young players because it becomes to a
1:07:50
point where we're going now, we're seeing it right now, right Camarda coming
1:07:56
up sixteen years old. You know, uh, he's he plays for me
1:07:59
on Premi Vera, you know, the their you twenty three team, the
1:08:02
me on you twenty three team that's going to be playing. Sayah, come
1:08:04
this season, he'll probably get looks playing that at that level. You know,
1:08:12
we need these young players to have these building blocks to be able to
1:08:15
be ready for for for seia, uh, you know, performances and setia
1:08:23
game play. Because I agree with one thing. I do agree with what
1:08:26
you said. You can't just throw these guys in and expect them to be
1:08:29
the next coming of the pierrero Is. That doesn't that doesn't exist. Maybe
1:08:33
bring back the stray rule. I don't know, me and hat besides besides
1:08:38
Calabria and you know he's a homegrown player. Okay, fine, we have
1:08:43
only him as in our starting lineups as an Italian. Like the top teams
1:08:47
in the league, like you're starting elevens, you know, are comprised of
1:08:55
mostly foreign players. Like I don't know, you know it was back then.
1:09:03
Was development that much better? Or did we just have more Italians playing
1:09:06
for our Italian clubs? Like I don't know, like maybe that grew up
1:09:11
that group of that crop of that generation of players just ended up being better
1:09:15
for just for what it was. I don't know, just the times of
1:09:18
change. Okay, I get it, but I don't know. Was was
1:09:23
development a lot better in the year, you know, two thousand than it
1:09:28
is now in twenty twenty four. I don't know. There's there's more more,
1:09:32
uh, you know, stats, technology, you know things going behind
1:09:38
you know, recovery and just facilities and you know money, Like a lot
1:09:45
of change over the years, and we're getting less of a crop of you
1:09:48
know, generational players than we out than we did, you know, twenty
1:09:51
thirty years ago. So I don't know what it is. Something in the
1:09:55
waters. I don't know. We can we can go around and say what
1:09:58
what it was or what it is, but I don't know. I think
1:10:00
the opportunity needs to be there for these young players. I think these stepping
1:10:04
stones and building, you know, they're building their their resume before you know,
1:10:13
throwing them into Sadia games. I think it needs to be needs to
1:10:16
be a thing. I agree, maybe I think all these teams should have.
1:10:21
You know, it's gonna be tough because obviously Setia you know there's there
1:10:25
already are Seti Setia Chi teams in City Chi. But maybe if it's not
1:10:30
playing them in Seti cheat, every team has like you said, every team
1:10:33
has a U twenty three team and all of them are playing in that in
1:10:36
their respective league. Forget citya Chi or maybe the top I don't know,
1:10:44
top four go over the City at Chi and and you know the rest of
1:10:47
them are in their own U twenty three league and until then they have that
1:10:53
buffer from their U twenty three to Citia Chi to maybe City of b and
1:10:57
if they're good enough, they have the quality, they're developed enough get to
1:11:00
the CIA roster. You know, it's I don't know. For me,
1:11:05
it has to start within to be able to grow your league. Like people
1:11:10
are like are on the fence of color Fieorty potentially go into Arsenal. For
1:11:15
me, like I don't know, I would like to seem city and City
1:11:17
because I like to see our Italian players flourish in Italy. It's great when
1:11:24
they flish outside of Italy too, don't get me wrong, but for me,
1:11:27
it's never guaranteed that that's gonna happen. Like, I don't know.
1:11:30
Besides besides Verdati, who has gone out, who's gone out of Sidia?
1:11:36
Okay, Bala Telly when he was with with with Manchester City, I don't
1:11:42
know, Emobile when he went to Spain and Germany? Did he really do
1:11:46
anything? I don't, I can't. There's not many players we can name
1:11:49
in this current generation. I guess I'm missing. I'm probably missing many players.
1:11:54
I don't know, but on this random I guess you could. Yeah,
1:11:59
but that's what three players, three players that we've named. Yeah,
1:12:04
but donal Ruma was already was Okay, yeah he was. He's good now,
1:12:09
sure, but he was already developed and and and and and a star
1:12:13
in Seria, Like how many Italians have went abroad and really taking their game
1:12:18
to the next level and has really developed into you know, really great players.
1:12:24
We named five players, that's it. Even if you named ten in
1:12:29
like the last what twenty years, like, it's that's those numbers aren't the
1:12:33
best. Maybe now everybody's gonna go on, uh transfer market, Wikipedia and
1:12:39
kind of you know, try to find all the players that have succeeded outside
1:12:43
of Italy that are Italians and that have succeeded in foreign leagues. Bring the
1:12:49
list, Bring the list. I need to see it. I don't know.
1:12:54
It just I'm on the fence with all this stuff. Maybe bringing back
1:12:58
to Sanieti rule like it was was because that that forced you to have Italians
1:13:03
on your team to play, if it be young, old, or middle
1:13:09
aged Italians on your squad, and have them playing in your league. Was
1:13:13
that what was that the X factor that really strengthened our league in the nineties
1:13:17
early two thousands. Maybe, I don't know. Unfortunately I didn't see the
1:13:24
beginning of that. I saw maybe the tail end of that in the middle
1:13:27
of that as a culture fan. But something has to give, something has
1:13:32
to change, something has to get going for us to kind of change this
1:13:36
narrative. I think it starts within the league. I think it starts within
1:13:42
Uh you know, I f I do you see and all that, because
1:13:45
it's it's it's it's not it's not possible that we're like we're continuously running into
1:13:53
a wall with with this, with this topic and and this, and like
1:13:57
I guess it's going to continue like that until things actually do change, if
1:14:00
they ever do change. But I don't know, it's it's like too foreign,
1:14:06
far and few between of players that are really you know, coming out
1:14:10
and being quality for the national team, which is a shame because I think
1:14:15
there are there are players of quality. But I think it's again it's a
1:14:19
numbers game, like you need, you need a constant rotation, like the
1:14:26
eras of of of the Buffons of the world, the Killini's you know,
1:14:30
playing for you know, twenty odd years at a high level quality some say
1:14:36
world class players, you know of their generation. You know, they they
1:14:44
which stood, which stood like many many many years, and like they gave
1:14:46
time for you know, these next generations to kind of get rolling and kind
1:14:50
of become at a level where they're able to take over the rings. We
1:14:55
needed that in a consistent fashion to to to grow and know the city and
1:15:01
to go with the Azuri and the national team. So I don't know,
1:15:04
man, it's I feel like that's a whole other conversation for many and many
1:15:09
many other episodes to come. Uh, But yeah, I don't know,
1:15:15
it's uh, bash your head against the wall with this type of topic.
1:15:18
That's all I can say. And also come with Francesco Kama. Let him
1:15:25
develop, let him grow, don't you know? I tweets already Pennsylim as
1:15:30
striker for the twenty twenty six World Cup. Guys, we haven't made the
1:15:32
twenty twenty six World Cup yet and he hasn't even made his national team.
1:15:35
I don't even think he's I don't even he hasn't played with it, even
1:15:39
with you twenty one team. Let's let's know he's played. He won,
1:15:42
He won with the U seventeens. Yeah, we got I think he he
1:15:45
got called up recently to the U nineteen provisional squad for for the Euros,
1:15:50
for their Euros. We'll see if he makes that squad again. I think
1:15:56
that's an opportunity for him, even if he does get called up to that
1:15:58
U nineteen squad, because what did you seventeen's day won? We saw it
1:16:04
and he was a beast. But again, he's sixteen years old, guys,
1:16:10
he'll be seventeen. What is it March? I think I checked it
1:16:16
out earlier. Yeah, he just turned sixteen. He's born in March thousand
1:16:19
and eight, you know, Yeah, March two eight, sixteen old,
1:16:23
it'll be what eighteen by twenty twenty six, going on eighteen, yeah,
1:16:30
right, Like, even if it all goes well, I don't even know
1:16:32
if he would be a striker in twenty twenty six, just because he's still
1:16:38
it's silly eighteen. You know, he could be the star for when Italy
1:16:42
hosts the Euros in twenty thirty two, you know, as a twenty four
1:16:46
year old or yeah, but again, let's just pump the brake twenty maybe
1:16:54
say twenty twenty eight euros, Yeah, twenty, that'll be euros, right,
1:16:58
no, yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be the euros.
1:17:00
Twenty twenty eight euros. You'd be going on twenty years old. Yeah,
1:17:04
it's been more realistic. Maybe that's a bit more realistic. He breaks onto
1:17:08
this scene from you on. I understand, I get it, but yeah,
1:17:13
pump the breaks with Kamara. Give him his time to develop. We
1:17:16
don't want to see another you know, Cassano incident or you know, maybe
1:17:21
even BALATOI to some sort of extent. Yeah, yeah, exactly, give
1:17:27
him his time to develop, give him his time to shine, and and
1:17:30
I think he has the qualities and the tools to do it. But it's
1:17:33
not rushing that's the more of the story exactly exactly. But I think that'll
1:17:38
do it for us. There's a great conversation Atrey. Maybe we should send
1:17:41
it to Gravina. Should listen to this because everything we said is actually correct.
1:17:46
Our opinions are true, we can argue them. But yeah, it
1:17:51
felt good because I feel like I've been having this in my head since Saturday,
1:17:56
all this everything I wanted to see. Oh my god, on the
1:18:00
you know, I watched the game in UH, in the piazza and in
1:18:02
the Motherland, and UH in the and in the regional movies. Just disappointing,
1:18:10
right obviously now on the whole plane ride back from Italy to to Montreal,
1:18:15
thinking about it these past couple of days, you know, a little
1:18:18
bit of jet lag, a little bit of still pissed off. It was
1:18:23
good to kind of lay it all out tonight. Didn't didn't didn't break any
1:18:26
tables, guys. We try to keep it a bit more civilized, even
1:18:29
though we were pissed. But h yeah, we're just hope hoping for for
1:18:34
you know, things to change and uh, for this chapter to be over
1:18:39
and to start to start a new chapter. Like Nick said, have that
1:18:45
World Cup twenty twenty six qualification mentality uh in place as of as of today
1:18:50
going forward with the nations being in the mix. So yeah, hopefully better
1:18:56
things to come for the Azuri. You know, I guess we're we we
1:19:00
take off the Italy jersey and put on the Canada jersey for for couple America.
1:19:05
They have a big game tomorrow, so yeah, well we'll have to
1:19:10
see how that goes out. But no, it was a great episode.
1:19:13
Unfortunate Jhnny couldn't be here tonight, but it was a bit of a different
1:19:18
one again. I guess we'll just meet Nick. But guys, give us
1:19:21
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1:19:58
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1:20:00
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