Latest / Skin Anarchy / Melanie Bender, Founding President of VERSED skincare

Transcript

Melanie Bender, Founding President of VERSED skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am super excited about our guest today because I am sure every single one of you have seen her line um in Target stores and all over Instagram.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you all to Melanie Bender, who is the founding president of Verst Skincare.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Melanie.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thank you so much.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I am so so excited to be here.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to have you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's truly an honor.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've been waiting for this interview because, like I said in the intro, like I've seen Verst everywhere.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so impressed by you know, just how many people love the products.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've really reached such a large audience.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'd love it if you would get us started with talking about how you came to the idea um for this line and just everything about your career.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think starting with uh with Verse specifically, I was in an incredible role at Who What Wear, um, working on their marketing for the media brands, for their apparel brands.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: They have two uh two uh apparel brands in the market, the Who What Ware Collection and Joy Leb at Target, and really just working under an incredible founder and CEO, Catherine Power.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and Catherine had just a really forward-looking vision to take what was happening and working so well with creating content, with creating fashion products with the community at WhoWhat Wear, um, but really to take that even a step further and to tap into this highly engaged community of 16 million uh readers and co-create a whole brand with them.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and really focusing in the beauty space, seeing that it was so ripe for disruption, um, and also just a really great business to be able to scale because of the nature of the products and uh and and how uh consumers use them and repurchase.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was really the jumping off point for me.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, I can't quite say I was given the incredible position because I very much asked for it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I literally wrote brand development into my my job description.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I said, okay, here's my new title.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my new task and you for my new role.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's the second time I've done that.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's uh I think you're quite the manifestor.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're quite the manifestor.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh there is really when you have the support of incredible leaders, it is only a good thing to put out there what you're interested in and how you think you can help them.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always amazed at how hesitant people, and honestly, like especially women, can be to put their their desires, their ambitions out there.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So do it, go for it.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Be smart about how you do it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, bring bring the your partners, your managers into that um that process with you so that you can really build it around their needs.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think there's there's really something to be said for sharing that vision with with your own um champions, your own cheerleaders, and uh and getting their buy into it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: But that was how I came into this role of um of developing bursts and verse, and really we were given incredibly incredible free reign to co-create with our community what we felt was missing from beauty.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was leading that charge with uh an incredible uh kind of skeleton team of people, two of which have gone on to be full-time members of the brand with me.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So people that were at that earliest stage have stayed with us.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, very quickly as we were talking to the community, uh, you know, we knew what we used on our skin and we knew how different our regimen uh looked now than let's say five years ago with a word of some ingredients and knowing the right um how to layer things, the right products and actives to use for your skin, um, but especially around the idea of clean.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something that was kind of uh everywhere in the Who are office.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: But when we talk to, you know, real women in Milwaukee or in Georgia, um, you know, they said that clean skincare, it's not for me.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's I'm I'm I'm not invited to be a part of it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's for people that um have high access.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have a Sephora in your in your city, which by the way, it's not not a lot of people.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's for those that have high discretionary income that can drop$500, you know,$800,$1,000 on a skincare regimen, which by the way is not the majority of people.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't recommend that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I and our position is we're not, hey, like if that's what you're into, that's great.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: If if you like to shop these prestige, beautiful, um, you know, aspirational brands, go for it.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: But it shouldn't be just for people that can do that, because really by doing that, we're discounting over 90% of the population uh here in the US.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you know, one, like let's just be inclusive and be think that way, you know, create something that's about inviting inviting people in.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: But when it also comes down to product safety, safety for your body, safety for our planet, it's a really horrible thing to price people out of that, to price people out of these collective shared values.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was really what got us so, so excited that there was demand and interest because honestly, because incredible brands had created that demand, had made this a movement like the the drunk elephants and and the Tata Harper.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: There were so many people that were looking to that, but no one was letting them in yet.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And who at where was a brand that was really about accessibility, about making style accessible, taking it off the runway and putting it into the streets in your closet.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not gonna be able to do that.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, who wants it just on the runway?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I hear you.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's I mean, you know, don't get me wrong.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate great art, you know what I mean?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like there's I really this idea of accessibility, I mean, truly, it needs to be, I think, explored more.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I and I love what you guys have done.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've you know, you've expanded into my favorite chain, you know, store of all time, Target, obviously.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I know a lot of people feel that way.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can you walk us through that journey?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you get to that point where you were like, you know, I'm gonna pick Target and I'm gonna, you know what I mean?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that whole thing.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, it's a very iterative process to start from nothing.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we didn't have there, wasn't a founder story, we weren't licensing the who it were name.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was really creating nothing, something from scratch, from the brand to the products to how we're distributing it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very iterative.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think people like to ask, like, oh, why did you have that big idea?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, it's not this is not what happened.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a ton of work that feels very circular, and you come up with ideas and then you second guess and you refine the ideas.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's it's a very iterative process to get it right.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the important thing to get it right.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, it was also about building it around the community.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't what I, Melanie Bender, wanted or what you know the other folks at the table wanted.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was really about listening to other people and and putting them at the center of what we were building from the pillars of the brand to the products, the formulas, how we're communicating with them visually, how we're using social media.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the the retail component was a really significant part of that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I had um I had worked a lot in uh in digital and D2C brands, but I also had uh a good amount of experience in retail.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this is back in 2017, 2018 that we're starting to coalesce around this idea, which is kind of the the the D2C heyday.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: But the dirty secret is that even then, 90% of retail sales and 90% of beauty sales are happening in these brick and mortar stores.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And rather than kind of casting that to the side, we looked at that as an opportunity and saw that, you know, especially when it comes to trying a new product, trying a new brand, the consumer wants to experience you in the store.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's how they know that I can trust you.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: They've been vetted.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: This retailer that I really look to thinks they're worthy of taking up space on the shelf.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and also just the connection that you get when you physically hold something.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I really thought that leaning into that brick or mortar retail was important to do.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, it was about a digitally native brand that could also outperform in you know these traditional retail environments because that's frankly where the opportunity was, you know.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Prestige retail, they had already evolved and and and looked very different than they did um a decade ago.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And on online, everything is accessible.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can shop anything, but in mass beauty retail, it it it looked a lot of the same.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the same thing.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I I will say, Melanie, I will say this because I think this is what really for me was very, very um captivating about Verst was that it, although you guys have been so focused on accessibility and you're available um to just the general consumer on Instagram um and especially on social media, I mean, the the influencers are really are really behind it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're behind the brand, they're behind the product.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and the way that um, you know, Verst is perceived, I can honestly say firsthand in the influencer community, it's it's a very coveted line, you know, and it's a very um, you know, recommended, highly recommended, highly sought-after, you know, um set of products.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that that's a wonderful, beautiful balance that you've created, you know.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think, you know, accessibility is great, but I mean let's not let's not be, you know, kidding ourselves.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great line, you know, everyone wants it on their counter.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and to us, that was that was the first step creating products that people would would really love and and hold up to the prestige brands or the not clean brands, because no one's gonna shop into clean, no one's gonna shop into sustainable products if they don't do what you need them to, if they don't take care of that pimple or help you with those dark spots.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So to us, you know, and we we call it being formula first, um, that was absolutely integral.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we had just really awesome insight and leaned on a beauty editor who's who's with our team.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, she's our head of brand, uh, brand in education, Devin Hopp.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and she really helped us uh kind of coalesce around what we needed each formula to be.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then really, you know, put a lot of pressure on our manufacturers to understand how do we achieve performance, what needs to be in the product, but as important as what does not need to be into it, in it, because everything that's in it is is you know causing a cost, and that cost needs to be passed on.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it was also about what we peeled out.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I think we absolutely the the influencer, the the impact of influencer was huge then.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is huge now, but we made a very conscious decision that was kind of like a a 180 from what most brands did, especially new brands.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we said that, you know, from from day one, we are not going to pay people to post about us to talk about us.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's hard, it was a hard decision to make.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, we had a lot of people second guess us, but when we really talked to the consumer to understand what they weren't loving about Mass Beauty, there is no trust.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: There was absolutely no trust as to what was in the products and what they would do for you because it's a a market that's been built around celebrity endorsements and airbrushing and marketing ingredients and flashy, you know, high expensive ad campaigns.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and how do we build trust?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you build trust if every everything says hashtag ad?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we to succeed, we had to build product and brand that was shareable.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it also really freed us up to invest in that, invest in purpose, invest in values.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and ultimately people ask me, what's the best marketing you've done?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's the best marketing, our purpose and what we stand for.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, being the cleanest brand, being the most sustainable brand, really putting transparency first and doing things like our community board meetings.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, that is what has made I think people really support us and lean into us and want to share us.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, the packaging is absolutely stunning.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: The packaging is stunning.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love everything about the brand.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I do.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I I want to ask you this very bluntly because I think it just needs to be answered by somebody who, you know, such as yourself, you're the leader of the clean beauty movement, in my opinion, in skincare.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we need to understand as a consumer, you know, uh population what clean means, you know, in the best way that we can right now.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I, you know, I'm not gonna lie to you, I see five new brands come out every day claiming they're clean.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what that means.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I've I've gotten to that point as a consumer where I'm like, well, I want to support clean beauty, I want to support sustainability and you know, um, all these amazing things that we can stand for, but how to find out if it's really clean versus not?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So can you go through that with us?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's you know, that's absolutely the right, the right question because clean doesn't mean anything.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a regulated term.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's similar to the the term natural in that there's no FDA definition of it or or or group that uh is is monitoring how people use it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really up to brands to define that for themselves.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for that reason, we take the most comprehensive definition in terms of you know, really thinking broadly about what it means to be safe.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be safe for your body, it has to be safe for your skin, it has to be safe for the planet, but we also really try to over-communicate that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's on the packaging, it's full disclosure on our website.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, different brands define it different ways.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think one really important distinction to make is it doesn't mean that other brands are quote dirty.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: That is not what it means.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: The way that formulation typically happens is the the FDA bans what 11 ingredients from use in cosmetics here in the US.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And everything else, it hasn't been proven unsafe in a significant enough way.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fair game.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of waiting for things to be proven unsafe, we use things that are proven safe.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So rather than kind of betting on the side of risk, harm to your body, harm to your organs, harm to you know, the the children that you were bare, we decide to bet on the side of safety.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that means that it's a very long list.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: We formulate free from over 1300 ingredients.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we believe that the right thing to do is to err on the side of caution when it comes to our bodies and the bodies of loved ones.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a similar position to what they do in the EU.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the EU know list is kind of our starter no list.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: They ban 1,350 ingredients there compared to the US is 11.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it also means that it has to be an open no list.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, research is changing all the time as to what is safe and what is not.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think a great example is polyethylene, which is technically a microplastic and it is an ingredient that was not on our no list to start.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not on the EU list and it wasn't on our list.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was in one of our products, our cleansing bomb, which is one of our bestsellers, a really awesome, awesome product.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And once it got out, once we released the product, you know, we started to get feedback from the community.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that led us to doing a lot more research on the ingredient.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: We decided that, hey, like this actually should be on our no list.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And just last month we announced that we have now formulated free from that ingredient.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: We've taken it out of uh of the cleansing mom.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for anyone in beauty, reformulations are a pain.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: No brand likes to do them.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're really difficult.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I was actually gonna I was gonna ask you that.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're I mean, they're kind of a nightmare.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: You you want to do them with real moderation, but to to be a clean brand, you know, we feel like having that open no list is is inherent, otherwise, it's always gonna be outdated.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that's another really important distinction for us.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I really, really think that it's important to understand like the difference between, you know, what kind of what is clean beauty?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you know, you make some great points.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we really need to, as consumers, sit down and do the homework behind, you know, what are the brands we're supporting?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where is our money going?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are we uh voting with our dollars?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think and I and I love that.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think we need 15 brands.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I think Verse is doing a great job.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're clean beauty, you like clean beauty, go to Target, you know what I mean?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know what to get.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where the conversation has to shift is like, you know, what do consumers really need?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you describe your vision to me as you wanted something clean and you wanted something sustainable, it's like clearly you did, because now, you know what I mean, the whole consumer market is showing you, you know, it's a mirror reflection of what you put out there.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So why do brands need to come back and say, I need more of this?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, yeah, I don't understand that.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And some expert hacks out there, because you're right, like it's a ton of education to do.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And some consumers are into into that and they want to do it.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not one of those, if you want to use clean products but you don't want to figure it all out, Target has their target clean seal.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: They have put together a very uh thoughtful no list that um that they check all those products for.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you can shop the clean seal at Target, you can shop the clean seal at Sephora.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and EWG, the environmental working group, also has a really easy web tool called Skin Deep that lets you very quickly uh search a product and find their own rating.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of dumbs it down for everyone that if you want to defer to the experts, they they have also made that easier.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that's that's important.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I we need as many tools as we can, you know, and so you know, I want to ask you, I actually want to ask you how you decided on like packaging and stuff, because I don't know any of this process, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like what brands go through to decide on like what is the best packaging, what is the best, you know, um dispensing tool to use for my products.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is that whole process like when you're trying to focus on things like, you know, like the clean beauty and and and making sure that you're not doing anything harmful?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I think it's it's incredibly important.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the packaging, it does a lot of things.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: It it um keeps your ingredients fresh and dispenses them.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: It also is obviously a big uh a big signal to who you are as a brand.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and big shout out to our creative director, Kate, who's also one of our first OGs who is there at that very first table.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it also packaging has a really significant impact on your sustainability and both your your waste and your carbon footprint.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the different things that we think about.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It also drives up costs a lot.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I had worked with one of the largest contract manufacturers of beauty in the US.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and one of my biggest takeaways from that time is that there is not a lot of difference between prestige and mass formulas.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is difference?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: What is difference is the packaging, the packaging and the markup.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the packaging is like 50, you know, 50% of it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: The packaging is in a lot of cases more expensive than the product inside, which is kind of bananas.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like if that's what you're into, if it brings you joy to have that beautiful custom um package on your shelf, then more power to you.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But for people that just want great products and don't want the fuss of that expensive packaging, don't want to pay for it or don't want the waste footprint because the more custom it is, usually the more complicated it is to recycle and reclaim because of mixed materials.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we did a very had a very conscious decision to go with what's called stock componentry.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's componentry that's already being being made.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's very cost efficient, and we've built on top of that a very extensive um set of packaging guidelines actually just put on our website, I think last week, our sustainable packaging guidelines that help us make this plastic packaging that we we work with as sustainable as possible.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's things like manufacturing with post-consumer recycled resin, post-consumer recycled plastic.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we're actually taking that used plastic out of the waste stream and we're making it into new components for us.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's also, yeah, it's also simplifying the types of plastics that we use.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we're focusing on just the most recyclable types, um, reducing the number of different materials that we use in any one component because the more mixed materials there are, the harder it is to use.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and even down to not uh using black on components that are recyclable because it's very difficult to repurpose a black, a black piece of plastic.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's only one color you can make it, and that's black.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a huge amount of thought that goes into packaging.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and um, you know, I think the biggest word that comes to mind is just trust.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have to bring in people that I don't even want to say like they see your vision, they add to the vision, they're seeing what I'm not, and collectively, you know, it paints this beautiful, um, you know, incredibly dimensional brand picture.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's what what we've done with the team.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I I love that, and I love how collaborative um your company is.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I really like that you're you keep talking about your team because I don't get to hear that enough.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's a side comment, but I you know, I really wanted to say that because uh, you know, so much work goes behind a beauty brand.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can only imagine.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I I want that work to always be rewarded, but you know, I think brands get lost in that.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have to stick to this checklist of things we have to be like, we have to be clean, we have to be trendy.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, you know, again.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Coming back to the idea of like, if you have a purpose, you will find the right way to do what you want to do.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you guys definitely have, you know, it's it's amazing.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a really critical part of that is not handing down the purpose, but creating it with the people in the room, with your team.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's something incredibly beautiful about coming in, you know, five days a week, 40, 40 hours a week to work on something that reflects your values.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when you are not empowered to be a part of creating that vision, I think it really takes away that beauty.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So rather than trying to push down every single initiative, um, you know, even when it comes down to our sustainability, my goal is really to open up that as a platform to anyone on the team that wants to be involved in contributing to that.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's certainly the things that I feel strongly about, like going carbon neutral last year and increasing the amount of PCR we're using across the board, but it's also led to some really incredible initiatives that I wasn't thinking about, like the accessibility of our products to uh people with disabilities, whether that's difficulty, you know, opening uh screw lids, uh, if there are certain types of lids, difficulty engaging with um with different types of content.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you're deaf and we've put a video on um our Instagram and we haven't put subtitles, and you're not able to engage with that video.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think there's there's really something beautiful about bringing people to the table that share your values and then inviting them to help paint in what that picture looks like with you.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I just I love it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I really love it.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, it's like finding real things to stand behind, you know.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: For brands, I feel like it's it, you don't have to find the biggest charity, you don't have to find the biggest cause.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to find something real.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes you have to create that, you know, because it's not already there, it's not in the space as it is.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to come out and create your own cause and purpose.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, you're your line is, you know, hands down, you guys are a leader in that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I really commend you.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this is this was awesome, Melanie.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: This was um amazing learning about first, and I would love to have you back, you know, um, to tell us more if you guys have any new products coming out.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've always got new cool stuff, and I so loved the conversation with you, Ecta.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for taking us to all those fun places.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, it's my pleasure.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone out there, please leave us some comments, some feedback.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have any questions for Melanie's team, please leave them in our concept art.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: We will definitely pass them along and yeah, leave us some ratings if you have time.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Melanie.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 24:55
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• 25:59
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