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Michelle Von Ruden: Still Here for a Reason · Why I Believe

0:01
Hello and welcome back to Why I Believe.
0:03
I'm your host Michelle Von Rearden and today we're going to have a special episode.
0:07
My friend Mary Ann Callahan is joining me and today we're going to flip the tables and she's going to be interviewing me.
0:13
Mary Ann, I'll let you take it away.
0:16
Michelle, thank you so much for letting me do this.
0:18
I'm super excited to hear what you have to say about why you believe.
0:23
So let's start at the beginning.
0:25
Tell me about growing up.
0:26
What was faith like for you?
0:29
Yeah, so for me, I grew up in a non-church home.
0:33
My parents raised us with Christian values, but we didn't go to church.
0:37
I really remember there was like one or two Sundays I went to a Bible school and I must have been kindergarten or first grade.
0:42
We were living in Germany at the time because my parents were in the military.
0:46
And I remember going to this kids Bible study.
0:51
I can't even you what it was called back then.
0:54
And they were talking about Noah and David and Goliath.
0:58
And I'm sitting here like, have no idea what you guys are talking about.
1:01
So we were raised with the values of Christian values, right?
1:05
So be kind, you know, all of these things, but we weren't really taught the stories.
1:10
We weren't really given guidance in that way.
1:15
And so for me, it was more of a, I just, you know, live my life because that's what I knew.
1:23
So how did that start changing for you?
1:26
How did it come to where you are now?
1:30
Yeah, so in high school, there's a group called Club Beyond that they have on military bases, and it's a non-denominational Christian youth group.
1:40
And I found out some of my friends were going and they're like, yeah, they were nonchalantly talking about how they went to Italy for spring break.
1:47
And I was like, what do you guys mean you went to Italy for spring break?
1:50
That's common because we lived in Europe, right?
1:52
So it's easy.
1:53
So we were back in Germany at this time and it's easy to just, you know, hop on the train and go over there.
1:58
And
1:59
They were explaining to me that they went on a mission project and that they with their group that they meet with every week.
2:05
And I was like, that's really cool.
2:07
They're like, well, you should come.
2:07
I was like, I don't go to church.
2:10
And they're like, that's OK.
2:11
You don't have to.
2:12
And so they just invited me.
2:14
And I was like, it was a really cool group.
2:16
uh I remember one of the leaders, you know, was telling a story about how his friend hiked the Appalachian Trail.
2:22
And that like sparked my interest in doing a long trail someday, which I still want to do.
2:27
But.
2:27
I just got to know some of the stories.
2:30
I got to know some of my friends who we didn't really talk about religion, right?
2:33
Because that's one of the things you don't talk about is religion and politics.
2:35
But here we are.
2:36
uh so but it was really just an open invite.
2:40
And then it was finding that community.
2:42
And I remember I must have been a sophomore or maybe a junior.
2:46
And I started going to church on my own.
2:48
So they had a non-denominational service on base that I would go to randomly.
2:54
uh
2:56
And then one of my best friends, her name was Jen, she was Catholic.
2:59
And so she also invited me to her church whenever I'd stay at her place.
3:02
And so I had done a couple of those, you know, been to a couple of Catholic masses.
3:08
I went to a couple of non-denominational services.
3:10
Oh, and I should throw it in sixth grade.
3:12
I went to a Southern Baptist all black church with one of my friends when I stayed at her house.
3:16
And it was an amazing experience.
3:19
I was definitely the only white person there, but it was still super cool.
3:24
It reminded me of like
3:26
the movies, you know, and so so I had been to a few different churches by that point.
3:31
um But yeah, it was really my friend saying, hey, we're doing these things.
3:36
And then I remember my junior year through the through Club Beyond, their mission trip was going to the Czech Republic.
3:42
And so I got to go to Prague my junior year and build playgrounds for the kids.
3:48
And it was really cool.
3:50
We built playgrounds.
3:51
We played soccer with the kids.
3:53
They had a band come in.
3:56
and they had a CD at the time.
3:58
I can't remember the name of the band.
4:00
I tried to find them and they're no longer around, I don't think, but they had a band.
4:03
So was really just a cool week long experience.
4:07
And that kind of set the tone for the first round of my faith, if you will.
4:14
Interesting.
4:15
uh So much.
4:16
uh There's such a strong theme of invitation there.
4:20
How you got involved with all of these different things.
4:24
That's really beautiful.
4:25
Awesome.
4:25
Well, then tell me about since that's your first round, why don't we head into the second round?
4:32
How did that get started?
4:33
Yeah, I think I say first round because I think when people go to college and I've I've learned this from the people I've interviewed to for the podcast is that they they kind of
4:41
take a break, if you will.
4:43
For better or for worse, college happens.
4:45
uh My freshman year of college happened to be a horrible time.
4:50
It was 9 11.
4:51
It was the first year I was not playing volleyball competitively through lots of different reasons.
4:56
So there was a lot of trials that I was going through at that time.
5:00
uh When 9-11 happened, my dad was still in the army, so that was happening.
5:05
um And I didn't put all of it together, that it was like a trial and that I needed to deal with my emotions.
5:11
And I started drinking and partying and doing all the things, but doing it excessively and making all the wrong choices, looking for something to fill that gap and then trying to
5:24
figure out where I fit in.
5:26
but doing it in all the now I will call wrong ways, but they led me to where I'm at.
5:31
So we can say that they're wrong, but without those, would I be where I am today?
5:36
Probably not.
5:38
And so I think that's really important to point out.
5:41
So yeah, so I went through all of those trials and...
5:48
I always say I want to live with no regrets.
5:49
mean, there's some regrets there, but they're not regrets.
5:51
Like if I could go back in time, I would change it because I wouldn't be where I am.
5:54
Right.
5:55
And then I met my husband.
5:57
So Mike and I have been married for 18, it'll be 18 years in August.
6:01
We have two amazing children.
6:03
And when we started thinking about getting married, we're like, OK, what do we want to do?
6:10
Where do we want to get married?
6:11
Because at this time, I'm not I don't really belong to a church.
6:16
I kind of
6:17
never really belonged to a church until we decided to get married.
6:23
And I remember we went to Mass.
6:26
So we went to the church ah that his parents got married in to go visit because it's one of those beautiful uh church on a hill, kind of nice landscapes.
6:36
And it was a beautiful church.
6:38
And his parents got married there.
6:42
They raised all their children Catholic ah and they've been married for a long time.
6:47
In fact, my father-in-law's birthday is today.
6:49
so he's 81, right?
6:50
And so they've been married for a long time.
6:52
And so that was one of the things that we kind of agreed on is that like, we want to have some traditions.
6:58
My husband's very like traditional in some ways and not in others.
7:02
all the, he's got the best of both parts, right?
7:04
And so that's probably why we're still married because he can handle me.
7:09
But so we had decided that we wanted to get married in that church.
7:13
And I remember we went to Mass one night.
7:16
And Father Francis, afterwards we're talking to him, we said we wanted to get married in the church.
7:20
And obviously Mike was Catholic.
7:22
I wasn't.
7:24
And he's like, well, what religion are you?
7:25
was like, well, don't really, Christian?
7:27
I'm a denomination.
7:28
I don't really know.
7:29
And he goes, well, he's like, have you been baptized?
7:31
And I said, yes, I had an emergency baptism when I was about three months old.
7:36
And he's like, okay.
7:38
He's like, well, that'll work.
7:39
And he's like, what are your plans?
7:42
Like, do you want to stay Protestant?
7:44
Do you want to convert to Catholicism?
7:47
And I said, and I kid you not, Mary Ann, and my husband still just makes fun of me for it to this day.
7:52
said, whatever it takes to get the job done.
7:57
Wow!
7:59
that was really honest to God that was my answer.
8:02
Whatever it takes to get the job done.
8:04
Because I didn't know.
8:05
I didn't know enough about the Catholic faith.
8:06
I didn't really have my own faith.
8:09
But I knew one thing and I knew that one thing was that I was going to marry my husband.
8:14
Right.
8:14
And so that much was clear.
8:16
And it was funny.
8:18
So when we got married I had to join the Catholic church.
8:21
I had promised that if we had kids that we'd raise them Catholic which we are currently doing.
8:24
I still had to join the church.
8:27
at our wedding, so we didn't have a full traditional Catholic wedding, but Father Francis at the, he's at the front, he's like, you know, Michelle didn't have a lot of answers for
8:36
me.
8:36
He's like, but there's one thing she made very clear is that she was getting married to Michael.
8:40
And Mike and I are kneeling at the altar and we're laughing.
8:44
And there's like five people in the whole church that are laughing and our church is packed.
8:48
And cause he's got a huge family and there's like five or 10 of us laughing hysterically.
8:54
Cause we know exactly what he's talking about.
8:56
We knew that he what he was referring to.
8:58
He didn't say it out loud.
8:59
didn't.
9:00
He didn't do that to me.
9:01
ah But that was kind of the set.
9:05
So then, you know, we had to go through all the marriage prep classes.
9:08
We had to take a test to see how compatible we were and all of these things.
9:12
And actually, Father Joe, ah who's no longer with us, God rest his soul, was informed us that we had scored the highest that he'd ever seen on a marriage compatibility test.
9:23
Yes.
9:23
And I was like, that's cool.
9:24
ah
9:26
But through that process is when we decided that I was gonna be Catholic.
9:32
And then in 2010 was when I had my Easter Vigil and the First Communion and everything like that.
9:43
So, just 16 years ago, we made that decision.
9:48
yeah.
9:49
you for sharing that.
9:50
um Is there anything that you experienced in your life that kind of there's almost a before and after like your Catholic life or your faith life before this event and your
10:03
faith life after where something really changed for you?
10:07
So there's a lot of things that I guess I didn't realize.
10:10
ah One of the things, so I kind of mentioned that I had an emergency baptism.
10:17
So when I was born, uh on day three, they were getting ready to send me home.
10:22
And my mom, as they're talking about discharging me, my mom realized that I was turning blue.
10:30
And she had mentioned it to the nurses.
10:32
The next thing they know, I'm being whisked away in an ambulance to Landstuhl Medical Facility in Germany, where I'd have my first procedure.
10:40
And they did a, they basically put a balloon in to open up the valves.
10:45
I I don't know the technical term.
10:47
I should, I don't.
10:49
But that whole plan was in order to get me back stateside.
10:53
And the goal was to wait until I was two years old to have what is called the switch.
10:57
So basically,
10:59
I had transposition of the great vessels.
11:01
So they had to flip the way my heart works.
11:05
So the side that's supposed to work and do all the pumping does nothing currently.
11:10
And the side that's supposed to do nothing does everything.
11:13
Yes.
11:13
And so they flew us back to Fort Sam Houston in Texas.
11:19
And
11:22
My mom tells me the story.
11:23
She said, was at the nurse's station and the doctor came through with his team of students.
11:30
And he says, if this baby, looking at me, doesn't make it or doesn't have surgery soon, she's not gonna make it.
11:38
And then that's when they brought my surgeon in from Walter Reed to do my surgery.
11:43
My life expectancy was two at best.
11:45
Mmm.
11:47
Wow.
11:48
then it was supposed to be 13.
11:50
And then it was like, okay, if she makes it to 30, she's gonna have a transplant, but she's never gonna play sports.
11:54
She's never gonna be a mom.
11:55
She's never gonna, lot of D, lot of dot, right?
11:57
And as we know, as medicine progresses, our diagnosis is and our longevity changes.
12:04
So my parents were given all this horrible news right away.
12:07
There's not very many pictures of me because I spent a lot of time in the hospital.
12:13
Obviously I'm still here.
12:14
I'm 42.
12:14
I have two children.
12:15
I was a four year varsity athlete.
12:19
Right.
12:19
So I've beat all the odds.
12:21
In fact, they had it so ingrained in me that I was going to have a transplant.
12:25
Like when I was turning 30, I went and saw my cardiologist and I was like, okay, so what's the plan for this transplant?
12:30
Like even though I was doing so good.
12:32
Yeah.
12:35
But because of all that, you I always knew that there was a greater purpose for me.
12:40
Like I knew I was made for a reason.
12:42
What that reason is, I'm still trying to figure out and think I'm getting closer to figuring it out.
12:46
But I always knew that there was something.
12:48
And in fact, in high school, that kind of came back again because I had ACL knee reconstruction surgery.
12:56
And that morning after the surgery, was like a week, maybe a week and a half after the surgery, I fell down our stairs.
13:04
Ugh.
13:05
uh And my head was at the bottom of stairs.
13:08
My leg was at the top of the stairs and So they went to a hospital went to the German hospital that was close to the base and this we really need to go back to where she had
13:17
her surgery and My dad was deployed at the time.
13:23
My brother was at home I think he had a broken ankle.
13:26
So he wasn't going to school that day.
13:27
That's right He didn't go to school because he ran down the stairs to see why my mom was screaming uh
13:32
And did he break his ankle doing that?
13:35
No, he had broken before, but so he ran on a broken ankle.
13:37
uh So he took the day off of school for obvious reasons at this point.
13:42
And so the German hospital sent us to the American hospital and on our way we decided to stop at, you know, go to McDonald's.
13:50
And for anyone who hasn't had a knee surgery, it's really
13:54
a lot more comfortable if you can sit sideways in the car so that way your leg is straight.
13:57
And at that time, the braces would go all the way from like your hip all the way down to your ankle.
14:02
They're not the nice, more compact ones they have these days.
14:05
And so I was sitting in the back seat and my mom goes, okay, we're gonna stop and get gas and then we're gonna go to McDonald's.
14:11
And while we're stopped at the gas station, I just heard this voice tell me move to the front seat.
14:16
And I was like, mom, I'm gonna move it to the front seat.
14:17
She's like, no, just do it after we leave McDonald's, it'll be fine.
14:21
And I was like, no.
14:23
I'm going to move.
14:24
And so I got out and I moved and my mom wasn't very happy with me because, know, I wasn't being obedient, right?
14:29
Um, but I just had this nagging feeling that I needed to move.
14:33
And sure enough, as we're sitting, we're completely stopped.
14:37
We're getting ready to turn into McDonald's and this lady in this little mini VW wasn't paying attention and hit us doing 60 miles an hour at her little mini car against our
14:51
Explorer.
14:52
and everything in the car flew forward.
14:56
Which would have included me.
14:57
Wow.
15:00
She hit it so hard that the engine fell out of her own car.
15:03
my god.
15:06
So I'm like, okay, I'm still here.
15:08
Like I had that voice.
15:09
Like I knew there was a reason why I needed to move.
15:11
I don't know why, but I listened.
15:15
As much as my mom would tell you I didn't like to listen, I did listen sometimes.
15:19
But that was one of the things.
15:20
Like, and I don't know who that voice was.
15:22
I mean, now I could tell you, right?
15:23
But I didn't know at the time.
15:24
I didn't understand.
15:26
But I kept like, why am I still here?
15:28
Why am I still here?
15:28
Like I wasn't supposed to survive this.
15:30
Like we shouldn't have made a home from that.
15:31
Like this shouldn't have happened, but I'm still here.
15:34
So I kind of had this underlying feeling that I was here for a reason again, but just still didn't know what it was.
15:39
And you know, I think we're all still trying to figure it out.
15:43
Have you heard that voice at other times through other experiences?
15:48
Yeah, so the next time was actually when we were out, had two beagles, Mike and I did.
15:57
This was before the kids and we were out.
16:01
Man, was it when he proposed?
16:04
Yeah, it was when he proposed.
16:07
We went snowshoeing because he knew I could never keep my snowshoes buckled.
16:11
Like they'd always come apart and he'd have to fix them.
16:13
So he thought it'd be the perfect time to propose.
16:15
It was uh
16:16
February 17th of 2006.
16:20
And so he proposed and then all of sudden we realized the dogs had taken off.
16:26
And but we're like, okay, we got to get to church.
16:28
Okay, so we went to church.
16:29
like, we're going to leave up their dog box.
16:30
They'll leave the food.
16:31
We'll come back from church and they'll be there.
16:33
Well, they weren't there.
16:34
And then we were getting ready to go to Texas to go see my brother, I believe.
16:39
And so days have gone by and you know how Wisconsin winters get where we get that negative weather.
16:44
Mm-hmm.
16:45
hitting like the negative 20s yet, but we were like low ones and I kept searching for them.
16:51
And at that time I wasn't.
16:52
uh
16:56
I don't remember if I was working or not or if I was going to school still, but I kept looking for the doc.
17:00
So I had all this time to go look.
17:02
And I remember I pulled up to the swan spot because there's like a little fire road that goes down through the Clark County forest.
17:08
And I was like, no, I'm not going to stop.
17:10
I've already stopped there.
17:12
And then so I was like, I start driving and then the voice comes back and it says, go back, get out and call.
17:21
And so I got out, I, you know, reverse, got back.
17:25
to the spot, opened up the door and I was like, buddy, Manny.
17:30
And then I hear the callers and they were together and I swooped them up gently because they were, they got into it with porcupines, all the things.
17:39
They'd been out for like three or four days by this point.
17:41
Like we were getting ready to fly the next day.
17:43
It was really like, find them or we're not gonna have them.
17:47
And got them in the car, got them to the vet, got them everything they needed to be taken care of by my father-in-law while we were gone, but.
17:53
Yeah, that was the second time that I know that that voice was very clearly like, go and do this.
18:01
And I was telling one of my friends who actually ended up being, uh they're actually Emily's godparents now, but I was telling her this story and she goes, yeah, my friend,
18:10
she was like, she would tell you that Jesus was talking to you.
18:12
And I was like, and she knows a little thing about that.
18:16
So uh she was a great family friend for a long time.
18:19
So yeah.
18:21
You're a very good listener.
18:24
I am impressed.
18:27
Wow.
18:29
Incredible.
18:31
Yeah.
18:32
Okay.
18:33
So um you have had, I know you have had a number of uh things happen in your life where you're like, God is keeping me here for a reason.
18:44
Yeah.
18:44
Why don't you tell us a little bit about those things and then how you got to the point also of starting this podcast.
18:54
Okay, so yeah, we're not gonna go into all of them because we'll be here forever, but we're gonna go through a couple of them.
18:59
uh
19:02
So one of the things that happened was in...
19:07
2022 and I was working for a nonprofit and I had a really toxic boss and one day she called me and she was screaming at me, yelling at me, questioning my values, my morals,
19:22
all the things that you know nobody likes.
19:24
uh But what she didn't know was that I was wearing a heart monitor.
19:32
So typically every couple of years they put one on me just to see how things are going.
19:35
But in this particular time I had gotten to AFib, which is a side effect of my heart surgery.
19:41
So a lot of people have it when they get older, but typically people with my surgery get it when they are in like their 20s.
19:46
I had it once in 2018, which put me in the ICU for like three or four days.
19:51
And then I didn't have it again until that November, November of 2022.
19:58
and I was supposed to go on a work trip.
20:00
I didn't want to go on the work trip because I was not trying to get farther away from Mayo Clinic.
20:03
I was trying to stay nice and close because we didn't know what was going on, which is why they had me on the heart monitor.
20:07
So during this phone call, she's yelling and screaming at me.
20:09
And I remember my blood just feeling like it was boiling.
20:11
And I was like, just so angry.
20:13
And I finally hung up on her.
20:14
I just I couldn't do it.
20:15
And I remember 10 minutes later, my phone was ringing again and it was my cardiologist.
20:23
And he's like, my God, Michelle, are you okay?
20:25
Are you hurt?
20:26
Are you bleeding?
20:27
How long were you unconscious for?
20:29
How can I help you?
20:30
Do you need an ambulance?
20:33
Wow.
20:35
And I just was kind of like, something happened.
20:39
And I remember it like, I felt like I was doing head, shoulders, knees and toes.
20:42
Cause I was literally looking at my body, making sure I was okay.
20:46
Cause he was so adamant that something had happened.
20:49
So I explained to him what I was doing 15 minutes earlier.
20:53
And what I thought was actually my blood boiling was actually my heart going into a really bad rhythm called ventricular tachycardia.
21:01
So ventricular tachycardia.
21:04
has the ability to cause sudden cardiac arrest, meaning your heart stops and you die, within three to five beats.
21:12
Whoa.
21:13
Yes, it's very quick.
21:15
It's very, if you remember when people used to call it the Sunday Scaries and like Mondays, like people would get called into corporate offices, people were dying of cardiac
21:24
arrest.
21:25
And.
21:28
I being uncomfortable in that situation, was like, so one to two beats?
21:33
Like, I know, I'm still here.
21:34
None of these things that he said should have happened happened.
21:36
So I'm guessing I'm okay.
21:38
And he goes, I don't know how to tell you this.
21:40
He goes, you were in VTAC for 41 beats.
21:44
Oh my gosh.
21:47
He continues to tell me that he doesn't know how I'm alive.
21:50
Wow.
21:52
um So during this time, the 41 beats, I actually self-converted, meaning my heart went back to a regular arrhythmia, because they could see it all live.
22:01
So they knew I was still alive.
22:02
They don't know how, but I was still here.
22:05
In fact, I never even had, I asked myself, do I need to go to the hospital?
22:08
Do you need to call me an ambulance?
22:09
Should I call my husband?
22:10
Like, what are we doing?
22:11
And he goes, well, you're actually fine.
22:12
He's like, since you're not injured, you're okay to stay home.
22:15
He goes, you converted out of it.
22:18
And eventually,
22:20
My head kicked in and I was like, okay, is this because of my heart or is this like a conversation problem?
22:30
And they weren't actually able to get me in until April to see the specialist to make that determination because we determined if it was my heart, they were gonna put it in the
22:40
defibrillator.
22:43
And so in April, when they were finally able to test me, they determined that it wasn't actually my heart and it was actually the stress from the phone call.
22:54
Wow.
22:55
So, doctors have actually told me that phone call should have killed me.
22:59
That's incredible.
23:01
And I know the person on the other line, as much as I didn't like her, that was not her intent, right?
23:05
That was never what she wanted to this day, unless she hears this or hears some of my talks that I give as a keynote speaker, she doesn't even know this happened.
23:18
But I've taken that experience and I've ran with it and that's a story for another day.
23:23
But yeah, that was one of the major ways that I know that it keeps getting reinforced.
23:30
Hmm.
23:31
could stop reinforcing it anytime now.
23:34
You know what I mean?
23:36
I get it, I'm here, I'm listening, I'm being obedient.
23:39
Let's just do this in an easier way maybe.
23:41
So, yeah.
23:43
So you are, um your job is, your day job is being a leadership.
23:53
what is your technical term?
23:55
Like a speaker, you go around giving conferences.
23:58
Do you think that?
23:59
Yeah, go ahead.
24:00
keynote speaker.
24:01
So I deal with burnout, right?
24:03
That's the problem I saw was burnout.
24:05
I uh coach.
24:08
So I do group coaching.
24:10
I do one-on-one coaching, faith coaching now.
24:14
I also have the podcast, right?
24:16
And then I do some work with corporations as well.
24:19
Do you think your life experiences, all you've had to deal with, do you think that's what brought you to the job that you have as keynote speaker?
24:30
Yeah, for sure.
24:32
I would think so.
24:33
I figured that was the easy answer.
24:35
Yes.
24:36
you've asked me all day.
24:37
ah Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
24:39
Part of that was because I saw what had happened to me and I didn't want somebody else to deal with that.
24:44
But at this point in my life, I already had an MBA from KU in management leadership, right?
24:49
I'd studied leadership my entire life.
24:51
And so now it's like, okay, well, let's put this into practice and let's start coaching leaders and executives and even middle managers so that way this doesn't happen to
24:59
somebody else's kid.
25:01
I mean.
25:02
I can't even call it luck.
25:03
It's like by God's grace, like a miracle that I am still here.
25:08
That's awesome.
25:09
Thank you for sharing that, Michelle.
25:10
mean, terrifying and awesome all at the same time.
25:14
So, oh wow.
25:16
I know your story is amazing.
25:18
So, okay.
25:19
So you have been a keynote speaker for years and now you're really branching into a new realm with this podcast.
25:30
How did that get started?
25:33
Yeah, so I'll make this one quick if we can.
25:35
um
25:39
I was working on my branding for the company for Von Ruden Coaching and Consulting and I was listening to a book by Rory Vaden called Wealthy and Well-Known and he works with
25:51
mission-driven messengers.
25:53
And one of the things that happened was he asked the question, what do you want to be known for?
26:00
And I remember this voice coming back saying, lead people to God.
26:08
I'm like, what, excuse me?
26:10
Like, where did that come from?
26:12
Because I knew that wasn't me.
26:13
So we kind of talked about my faith, right?
26:16
So like we had round two where we go to church.
26:19
But I would say and we were doing really good and then COVID hit and then it was kind of more casual.
26:25
And it was like it was.
26:29
We went when we when it was convenient, let's be honest, that's what it was, right?
26:32
So like it was convenient if we didn't have anything going on, it felt like getting out of bed, right?
26:35
We weren't like fully into it, but we.
26:38
And I think there's a lot of people that live that way, right?
26:41
And you can continue to do that or you can make different choices.
26:44
That's really a personal thing.
26:45
so, uh so I knew I wasn't at the, I wasn't the person that should be leading people to God.
26:52
Like that wasn't me.
26:53
I don't, I wasn't worthy.
26:55
Like I, I had no idea what to do with that.
26:57
So I sat with that for a couple of weeks and then I was laying in bed.
27:01
It was the week of Christmas.
27:02
It was a Monday night and
27:05
The voice came back and it says, go to mass tomorrow and talk to Father Greg.
27:10
I was like, there's mass tomorrow?
27:13
Right?
27:13
And of course there was, right?
27:15
There's daily mass at St.
27:16
Raymond's.
27:16
And so was like, okay, well, I can go to mass.
27:19
Like miraculously, my schedule's clear.
27:20
I don't have anything going on on Tuesday at 8 a.m.
27:23
And so I went to mass and that was my first daily mass.
27:29
I don't think I knew that.
27:30
Oh.
27:32
daily mass.
27:33
And I remember you walked in and I was like, oh, Mary Ann's here.
27:39
OK.
27:39
I was like, so I'm going to be halfway obedient and I'm not going to talk to Father Greg, because that's a little intimidating, because I got lots that needs that because I have no
27:49
idea.
27:50
Right.
27:50
And then I ended up talking to you after mass and we sat down.
27:54
You were so gracious with your time.
27:55
sat with me for 45 minutes and I cried like I don't.
27:58
I had to cry to forever.
28:01
I remember you said, Michelle, when's the last time you went to confession?
28:05
And I was like, do I tell her?
28:08
Like, I can't lie, I'm in church.
28:09
Okay, it's been six and a half years.
28:11
And you're like, what are you doing tonight, Michelle?
28:15
So of course I went to confession, we met there.
28:18
And
28:21
Christmas morning, I remember I woke up at 4.15 a.m.
28:24
from a dead sleep and the voice was back.
28:28
And he said, start a podcast, call it Why I Believe, share the stories of how you've been saved and interview other people.
28:39
So I grabbed my phone, opened up the notepad and started taking the notes from what is being given to me.
28:47
And I remember thinking to myself,
28:50
So it's your son's birthday.
28:52
You don't want us to work on Sundays.
28:53
Do really want me to go work on your birthday, on his birthday?
28:56
Like, is that really what you want me to do?
28:58
Because I'm a high achiever, right?
29:00
And that's, that would be something I would do.
29:01
I'd get out of bed and start working on it right away.
29:03
ah But I forced myself to lay there because I was like, we're going to respect some boundaries here.
29:06
ah So I got the information, I put it in my notepad, and then the next day I started working on the podcast.
29:16
Yeah.
29:17
And then I think the next time I saw you was like the next Sunday and I was like, Hey, Mary Ann, guess what?
29:22
So you've been with me through this whole like, uh round three, I think.
29:27
Is that what we're going to call it now?
29:28
Right.
29:29
Yeah.
29:30
are the world's best listener.
29:32
Like I am totally impressed.
29:35
So yeah, so we started the podcast.
29:36
um Yeah, and here we are.
29:39
That's awesome, and I'm so grateful that you did.
29:41
uh You're doing an amazing ministry by doing this.
29:45
So since you are in ministry now, I have a couple practical questions for you.
29:51
You mentioned earlier that you're kind of partying, and because you knew you wanted to fill, you just had this emptiness, something that needed to be filled.
30:02
Well, we know it's a God-shaped hole, right?
30:05
Like that God created us to um
30:08
to long for him.
30:11
Can you just describe, because I know there are so many situations, I mean, I'm guilty of doing it myself, you know, like just filling up the time with this, that or the other.
30:22
But what is the difference between filling up that hole with something like that, which I guess we would call like material, and then filling that hole with some with God?
30:33
What has that brought to your life?
30:37
Yeah, so I think you're actually hitting on something that I'm working on.
30:39
I'm working on a new talk uh where I talk about your identity.
30:44
Right?
30:44
And so I was filling my identity and who I am, not with my origins, but with achievements, materialistic items, all of these things.
30:55
Right?
30:56
So in college, it was like, who do I hang out with?
30:58
Who are those right people?
30:59
you which party do I go to, all of these things.
31:02
And then even afterwards, like I was so goal oriented and a high achiever, I was like, okay, I want to be a financial controller before I'm 30.
31:08
I want to see a phone job before I'm 40.
31:09
I want to do this.
31:10
I want to have that.
31:11
I want to check all these boxes.
31:13
But here's the thing.
31:14
I checked all the boxes and I still wasn't filled.
31:21
And I remember, Marianne, we had our conversation at church that day.
31:25
And I remember after that, I had a peace, like this feeling of peace and comfort wash over me that I hadn't had.
31:37
And it was like this joy.
31:38
And I remember and I still remember how it felt because it didn't stay forever.
31:44
It kind of like which I keep asking God, was like, can we have that back, please?
31:47
Because that was really good.
31:48
uh
31:52
a misstep, right?
31:53
Cause I know I did something wrong cause I'm human.
31:56
But it was just, it really changed my perspective and just really just peace.
32:04
There's no other way to say it.
32:07
I totally get it.
32:08
There's no other piece like that, please.
32:12
And sadly, it often is fleeting.
32:14
know, like you just have to keep working to, you need to surrender it all to try to get it back.
32:20
And thank you for sharing that, Michelle.
32:23
um Another like just practical question.
32:28
Do you find yourself inviting people now into the faith?
32:33
Do you find yourself asking,
32:35
People questions about God or their relationship with Jesus or things like that or inviting.
32:41
So I don't think I invite per se.
32:44
I mean, we have a program at church called Alpha that I invited a bunch of people to.
32:47
ah But.
32:51
I'm more open about it, obviously, right, the podcast.
32:53
did a whole unmasking video on January 2nd that went, I think I'm over a thousand views that I made public really just about me saying, OK, I'm going to be all of me and
33:03
authentically me and not just like me to you and then a different version of me to you and right, like I'm just going to be who I am.
33:10
because that is so much easier than trying to be anybody else.
33:14
uh
33:17
So yeah, so I think I don't really invite people, but it's really about the way that I'm like trying to walk my life now.
33:24
Like I remember my son and a friend were in the car and they were talking about this student that was going through some troubling things.
33:28
And I was like, it sounds like she needs Jesus.
33:31
And my son goes, well, doesn't everybody?
33:33
And I said, yes.
33:35
You know what I mean?
33:36
And so like, I'm sharing more about it.
33:39
So like when I went, happened to be in New Orleans.
33:41
So like I went to the oldest Catholic church.
33:45
in United States, it's still operational.
33:47
And I took a picture and I sent it and I did Stations of the Cross there and I went to Mass there and right.
33:53
so I started posting about it and not so not necessarily inviting, but like putting it out there for people to go, hmm.
34:02
I think that is inviting.
34:03
That is inviting.
34:05
It really, you know, just by sharing, you're inviting.
34:08
He goes, wow, okay, that means something special to Michelle and she seems to be filled with joy.
34:14
So maybe I want to go down that road.
34:16
That is definitely inviting.
34:20
Awesome.
34:21
You're doing awesome.
34:22
That's so cool.
34:23
um I know we're all on that journey, aren't we?
34:28
I just have one more question.
34:32
Why do you think faith matters?
34:36
I mean, throughout all time periods, faith has mattered, right?
34:42
But with the world being as it is today, why do think people need faith?
34:48
Well, we need some sort of hope, something to believe in, like good that's coming, right?
34:51
So the world right now is masked with all sorts of trials, tribulations, not good things, uh wars, right?
35:01
And so we need someone and something to believe in that's got to be better than this.
35:09
And I think one of the ways that we do that is through community, because we can't walk alone.
35:15
Right.
35:15
Jesus is always with me.
35:16
Right.
35:17
He's always with me.
35:18
like, I need people that I mean, he talks to me, but like I'm a more regular basis.
35:23
Right.
35:24
So like, so we need that extra community.
35:27
And I think, you know, one of the reasons why I got so fortunate with the conversations I've had with him this year and the Holy Spirit was because I was like, how do I develop
35:34
this relationship?
35:35
And then I was open to the answers.
35:39
Right.
35:39
And so I think when we all start.
35:43
opening our hearts, opening our ears, listening and starting to really say, OK, I hear you.
35:49
I don't know all the steps, but what's the next step?
35:52
And just doing that next thing.
35:54
like for me, even before this all started with the Holy Spirit telling me to leave people to God, I was really trying to find my place.
36:01
And I had joined a Bible study that I went to.
36:05
was like, I'm not going to make it every week, but I'm going to make it as many as I can and really just putting myself in the right spaces.
36:13
to be able to receive.
36:16
And so when we have community like that, so I've made friends out of that community, right?
36:19
And so when we have community like that, it makes it easier to know that you're not alone and that you can pick up the phone and call somebody.
36:26
This is why group coaching is successful.
36:28
This is why you have all these programs that involve multiple people, because they have other people, because you're not available 24 seven, nobody is.
36:36
But when you have 10 people you could call on, 15 people you can call on.
36:42
then somebody's probably gonna answer the phone for you or the text, right?
36:46
And so you're gonna have somebody to help you walk through that.
36:50
And I always think it's always important to have somebody outside of your immediate family.
36:53
And I talk about this in accountability and like questions because there's things that you are gonna go through that maybe you're not ready to share with, maybe your mom's your
37:03
person, but maybe you don't want your mom to know, right?
37:06
We're not hiding, we're just like, I need to work through this so that way they don't worry and then come back to it.
37:13
Right, and so community is very important and I think that's what we need in the community.
37:17
In fact, I was at East of Vigil and the church was packed and I like, I wish it was like this every week.
37:21
I know that was so beautiful.
37:24
I mean, at the Easter vigil, which everybody knows is the longest mass of the year.
37:28
And we had overflow, which was awesome.
37:31
That was so, cool.
37:33
But yeah, that being in community, especially in today's day and age, I mean, where we can get so isolated from our, with our phones and this and that and the other, I'm so glad you
37:43
brought that up.
37:43
That is so important, especially a faith community.
37:47
Awesome.
37:48
You're really good at this, Michelle.
37:50
Thank you for.
37:51
Thank you for doing this and I have one more question for you that you like to ask everybody.
37:56
What is your favorite Bible verse?
37:58
Yes, so it is, your light so shine before others that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
38:05
Matthew 5 16.
38:07
Do you want to show every...
38:08
wait, can people see your t-shirt or no?
38:11
No, no, they can't see it, but I'm wearing a shirt right now that says, be salty, stay lit, Matthew 5, 13 to 14.
38:19
So Matthew is my, Matthew is my gospel.
38:23
He's my guy, so.
38:25
awesome, I love that one.
38:26
I love that Bible verse too.
38:28
Well, Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your story and thank you for ah listening to Jesus and having him guide you to this podcast because I know it's gonna be super helpful
38:38
for so many people.
38:39
I'm just grateful you brought your gift to us, thank you.
38:42
Thank you, Marianne.
38:43
Thanks for interviewing me and I can't wait to do it again.
38:45
Yeah, sounds great.
38:46
Thanks, Michelle.
38:47
Thanks.