Latest / Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan / AI Compute Becomes the New Utility, Private Equity’s Extraction Problem & Surveillance Everywhere

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AI Compute Becomes the New Utility, Private Equity’s Extraction Problem & Surveillance Everywhere · Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan

• Dre: Yo, what's good? Welcome back to another episode of Beat the Eyes. How ya doing man? Happy Thursday. Rodney: Yep, Thursday, Thursday evening. Brylan: I I can't complain. Rodney: Can't complain. Dre: T towards the end of the week, man, how's it been for y'all? Been crazy? Smooth? Brylan: Mm. Rodney: Yeah. Like I shared in the chat, I've I've been doing doubles. I've been doing doubles Brylan: Yeah, he locked in. Dre: Yeah. Rodney: for the I've been doing doubles. You know, I go to the j Dre: Yeah. Rodney trained him for something. You train him for something. He just don't know, or he trained it for something though. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Brylan: That's what I'm saying. Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: We we there's just no product market fit for you in in that specific category. But we'll find you one. Rodney: Yeah, there's no there's there's no well my instincts are telling Brylan: Actually Rodney: me the my instinct here's the thing. I understand that there's the there's like the hierarchs, there's the triathlon. I have a friend that's also doing the the Iron Man soon. Like I understand there's all these competitions. But my instincts and intuition is are telling me I'm gonna need to be very strong and conditioned. Just in general for what's coming. So I don't know, take what y'all want from that, but That's what my intuition is saying about what the cur what's unfolding. You're not gonna want to you're not gonna want to be frail, you're not gonna want to be Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: slow, you're not gonna wanna be weak for what I see on the horizon. I'll put it like that. Brylan: So so let me let me let me say this because usually I would say I want to reframe your perspective, but I actually want to expand the frame because I think you have a good frame Rodney: Sure. Brylan: of reference. But the way I would expand it is, yeah, this was probably a few weeks ago or a few months ago. You was talking about the five AM shorties at the gym. You know, y y you you you you would see them and you they brought a whole different mindset. There's there's Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I do. Yeah, yeah, they cool. I now and now I see the eleven and I see both now. I see the ones at five AM and I see the one that's at eleven. And and and they they different personalities. Different personalities. Brylan: Which one do you gravitate towards? Rodney: I mean the five AM ones. I mean I mean, look, Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: like like at the end of the day, Brylan: So so so Rodney: like at the end of the day, like I I hear I heard once you can't observe consistency. And the the reason behind that is because you can't observe it unless you're consistent. So in general, consistency cannot Brylan: That's real. Rodney: be cannot be observed. So when I see, you know, certain girls coming in a handful back to back every every every day, in the way that I've been doing it for months, I can see that. 11 a.m. is interesting. the they stay on the phone a little bit longer, they wait, they wait on the machine a little bit longer. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: That's real. Rodney: They they Brylan: That's real. Rodney: they they do a little bit lighter workout. I they they they they Dre: Yeah, the 5 a.m. the 5 a.m. is serious. They're not bullshitting. You don't get up at that time if you're not serious. Brylan: So Rodney: No. Brylan: so hold on. So hold Rodney: Exactly. Brylan: on. So stay with me. Stay with me though. So take for Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: example, this is why now I'm making the case for why you gotta do the high rocks. You gravitate towards the five AM. Where else are you gonna get that type of density? So say for example, if you do like Dallas or Chicago, it's gonna be 30,000 people, let's say 40% of Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Brylan: them. So twelve so twelve thousand are women. Let's say of those twelve thousand, ten percent, not even eighty twenty, ten ninety. Ten percent of them, so twelve hundred of them are the five AM type. Where the else you where where else you gonna get that kind of density? And they come in from everywhere. Rodney: That's actually a good point. But you got one shot. You say i i it sometimes it's better to build Brylan: Who said you gotta do high rocks once? Rodney: No, nah, but you but you but don't don't Brylan: Ha ha ha. Rodney: don't do that though, bro. Don't do that, bro. See, here's what you Brylan: Ha ha ha. Rodney: want here's what Bryan wants to do. Brian has already done it at least once. He might have done it twice. Brian wants Brylan: I've done it three times. Rodney: us Exactly. So Brian wants us to go in there, get humbled, and then now we're gonna feel like it now we're gonna feel like, damn, we gotta we gotta catch up. And he wants us to play his game. I I I I resp I respect the game you Dre: Ha ha ha. Rodney: playing. But let me play my game. Brylan: Ha ha Rodney: But I hear you though. I hear you though. I hear you though. They they over there. They over there. Brylan: I'm I I'm I'm just saying it's it's a it's a good feel. It's a good feel. Rodney: They over there. It's better than eating at the club. Or you know like it there's Dre: That is for sure. Brylan: No, no, no. There will be those two. There will be those two. But they will be at the back. So Rodney: yeah, you'll see it in the performance. You'll see it in the performance. Bro, Dre: Yeah. Brylan: Yeah, yeah, you'll see you'll you'll you'll see it in performance, you'll see it in breathing. You see that Rodney: I I mean look at it these days when you get older, you look at it. It's see when you're not growing with people, you gotta see people for what they what they what they got to right now. It's different. When Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: you in your 20s, okay, we all grow and it's all potential. We we we all we'll grow together. Okay, we in our th so now I'm looking at you now. Like what do you Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: got going on right now? No. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Dre: Yeah. No no more potential. It's like today. It's today. Man. No, that's that's crazy. That's crazy. All we all want to take it to. We got a lot of topics to get to today, y'all. If we don't have a good one. A lot of a lot of major changes Brylan: Hold on, but Dre: in the headline. Should we start with wait, go ahead, Brylan? Brylan: Let's start on something lighter because y you had dropped this in Rodney: Okay. Brylan: the chat. But the Lakers. Them getting purchased, Rodney: Huh. Brylan: man. And like the fact that yeah, yeah, yeah, Dre: Okay. That's a crazy that's a crazy shocker. Brylan: yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Give us give us the context. Because that one was interesting. Dre: So we w so we actually gotta take it back what less than a year or a little bit over a year ago, the bus family who was owned the Lakers since what like the seventies, since like what Jerry Bus was around, sold it sold the Lakers to private equity firm owner. I think he also owns the Dodgers. I think his name is Mark Walters. I might be getting his last name mixed up, but I know his first name is Mark, owner to the Dodgers. So he's a a sports investor, but he's also a private equity guy. They sold the Lakers to him for ten billion dollars. And then he turns around and Bob Iger and Thrive Capital come together and or Jared Kushner actually and buys it for what was it, twelve point five billion? I think is the reported price. so that's a two and a half, two and a half billion return after selling the sports franchise after a little bit over a year. Some say though, I looked a little bit more into this, some say that apparently Mark was under investigation for some tax some tax loopholes or some some way in which he helped finance, some way in which he helped get secure the loans and financing for the Lakers purchase, for that twelve billion dollar purchase. There were some things that he did and essentially he was being investigated for some of the actions that he took to secure the loan. They might believe that he was being a little bit dishonest on some of the the paperwork. in order to secure the f the twelve billion dollars in financing. Obviously he didn't want to take that out of his own pocket. He's a private equity guy. They're gonna get creative with how they finance these deals. So apparently he was being investigated by that. I I don't know if that's the sole reason or not. I mean if you have an opportunity to make two and a half billion dollars in less than in a little bit over a year, I think any one of us will probably take that trade. I mean so maybe there's some truth to that maybe there isn't. But nevertheless the l the Lakers have sold to a new ownership group and yeah that's pretty crazy. I was not expecting to see that. Brylan: Yeah, that I mean, it's not often you see that quick of like a flip of a team. the other thing too that's interesting, I was just looking this up, but this mark guy, he lives in Chicago, which Dre: Mm. Brylan: is freaking nuts. I'm like, damn, Dre: Hmm. Brylan: there's people really in Chicago pushing that kind of dope. 'Cause I mean, you know, Ken Griffin, another citadel, you know, billionaire. That's that's just crazy to me. That like yep. People people out here flipping sports teams like that. And then have y'all been seeing what's been happening in the college space too? With pro Rodney: No, no, no. Dre: No. Brylan: I think it might have been, I can't remember if it was Michigan or LSU. It's one of those big schools. But yeah, private equity companies are now I think the the NCAA approved that private equity companies can now buy ten to twenty percent stake in a college program. Rodney: Wow. Geez. Brylan: And so and so yeah, like I I I I just think the world of just like finance, man, especially in sports Rodney: Money is and this capitalism is going to capitalism is Brylan: There's plenty there's plenty of it. There's plenty of it. Rodney: turning into it it it it capitalism is evolving at a rapid rate. Dre: You know, it it makes me a little bit concerned when when I see some of these private equity moves, you know, because Rodney: Yeah. Dre: it's like it's a little bit Rodney: Right. Dre: tricky. I I don't know, I like your private equity, even though you know I play in this world, but on a smaller scale. I consider them kinda to be like vultures. You know, like Rodney: Right. Dre: like to me private equity is not a it's not a social good cause. It's all about capital. It's all about Rodney: Cash. Dre: It's all about resource and capital extraction. That that that's the mission, right? Is you acquire an asset and the goal is to grow this asset, but the ultimate goal is to extract as much resource and and as much capital out of that. And unfortunately that has collateral damage. And so I get tricky when I see private equity entering into these certain markets because if these things start to, you know, start to take take a certain shape. it might destroy some of these programs, you know, and think I think that's even some of the concern with like what's happening with like NIL. You I'm not again I'm not super deep in college sports, but I think, you know, introducing capital into that arena, I mean, yes, it's been good for players to get paid. Yes, we all wanted players to get paid. We all thought they should get paid. But then now we see what that looks like. It's sort of kind of changed the sport a little bit. Right? The sport is no longer the way that it used to be. Maybe that's good, maybe it's not good, right? But I guess I I still think you gotta think about like, you know, is is that really what we want? In maybe some cases it is. Rodney: The only change I would make to the NIL stuff, even though if I had to guess, most college athletes are not making tons of money, except for the the the ones that are really, really good. but if I but if but I don't think and I and I always go back to in high school, I I used I wrote a paper, college athletes should get paid. And I always go back to that 'cause I'm not it could 'cause now I see that that really happened. But The one thing that I I I believe is that I don't believe that 18 to 22 year olds who are playing sports should be getting given given millions of dollars up front. I just don't believe that. I think that they should be given the money in a lockout period type of way. So one of the models that I believe in is like the vested model. Not to say they they have to go through best a vesting process. But more so that the money hypothetically if that athlete were to g were to have a a million dollars in a in a traditional N I NIL deal, I would say don't give an eighteen year old, nineteen year old, twenty-year-old, wh whatever, a million dollars up front. Give them a hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year and have it Be have the later part of it like guaranteed towards a a later time. Because I just think that these people you give up a million you give you give a kid a million dollars and he's going to You put him in the position to where now he's been rewarded at a early at an early age. And then also too, he'll likely mismanage the money. And I think that we want to try to we do want to retire too. We wanna give them the money still. So I'm not saying don't give them the money. So kick give them the one million. Just don't give him the one million all at once and let them like dest like It it's damaging it's damaging, it's damaging. Dre: It Brylan: But Dre: is. Brylan: but but hold up. But hold up. Mama need a new house. Granny need a new car. Sister need to go to college. Rodney: They would been fine though. Imagine that, but this yeah, that's always been the case though. And if with 150, most with 150 though, and first of all, also by the way, hold on. That mindset also is another thing we gotta we we have to figure out how to approach it better. And I've been in that mindset of you know, parents need this, mom needs this. You know, friends need this, whatever the case is, brother needs this. I've been in that mindset, right? But that's n I can say that the savior mindset isn't a good mindset for a young woman or a young man. That's not a good mindset. That's that's not a good mindset to put them into. So yeah, they might need that, but we gotta we gotta think. Why do they need that? Why do why do they need that? And it is and is that like I understand a kid's desire to want to come in and resolve everybody's problems, fix everybody's problems, etc. And I'm not saying to stop that, but what I can say is if you get paid 150, you can make considerable progress with that at 18. If you get one fifty 150 at 18, you can you can solve if you need to solve some problems, cool. You may not be able to buy a whole brand new house, but Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: most of the problems that y'all got can be resolved. With that Brylan: Facts. Rodney: w w with that one fifty, you you can't tell me y'all got ten million dollars worth of problems. Brylan: When you didn't when you didn't Dre: Yeah, yeah. Brylan: come from a ten million dollar situation. Rodney: Y'all don't yeah, right. Y'all don't got Dre: Yeah. Rodney: y'all don't got ten million dollars worth of problems. Like nah. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: Hold up. I think Dre: Yes. Brylan: I think this is the other thing that always catches like actually who was I talking to? I was talking to my barber recently, and I I I think it really surprised him. Probably like most people don't even really know this. But when you think about the context of like just black homes, it is crazy going back to what we were talking about social media before the pod started, how much of an illusion in terms of wealth it it has created amongst like our community. Like I had asked my barber, was like, man, how what what what percentage of black folks do you think make over six figures? He's like he threw out a number like sixty, seventy percent. I'm like, bro, what if I said it Rodney: What? Brylan: was like less than what if it was less than ten percent, bro? Like the aver bro, the average black household makes thirty Rodney: Where is he is he l if is is he even living on earth? Brylan: six. Bro. Rodney: He's not even living on earth. He's not even living on earth. Brylan: It's so yeah, I I I I think I say all that to say I think you make a really good point around like one fifty, like bro, if you coming from a thirty six thousand dollar or even a fifty thousand dollar type of situation, Rodney: Right, right. Brylan: bro, one fifty Dre: Mm-hmm. Brylan: getting you right. Rodney: 150 it puts one fifty will put you in the top ten percent of America immediately. Households. So you don't you you don't you and I'm not saying you not gonna get the the rest. I'm just saying let's not give you a million dollars while you don't got no sense and you don't got no boundaries and you're naive to how things work. Let's not set you up for failure. Let's set you up for success. Let's let let's do that. Let's set you up for success. I'm not saying don't give them the money. I'm saying drip out the money. So, for example, if you blew Dre: Okay. Rodney: it all first year, you at least think, you know what? Okay, let me just grind. I gotta this is the football, basketball, whatever it is, got me that. I I blew it first year, but okay, I'll get it back to next year and maybe even more. And if you put them in a in a in a better mindset as opposed to giving it all up front. And then of course, all that's happening is is that you're going to school, going to campus, you're getting an a role to I we see it in some of the some of these programs. They're going, they're Brylan: Right. Right. Rodney: getting these nice, and it's like, you're the king now. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. But but if you didn't make it, you don't make it to the NFL, you don't make it to the NBA, now what? And and he and and then with with that that that downfall is only gonna be regret later. And then they're gonna turn around and and they're going to potentially I don't think they should do this, but they they might. Don't be surprised if some of these people say, you know, I wish they didn't give me all that. I wish I didn't get all that up front. It made me it made me less so so we want to give them something what they're earning. We want to they're earning for these programs. So we want to give them the ability to to to make money. At the same time though, we still want to set them up for success. That's that's all. That's all. Dre: Yeah, I agree. I agree. We'll see how it plays out, man. Shout but I guess shout out to private equity, man, for finding finding new pools of capital. So I guess if you invest in a private equity fund, you sh returns should be up right now. If anybody that got br in the in the P E firm right now. Rodney: P E's crazy. P A P it's crazy. Dre: Bro this this nigga's making so much money right now bro like just ridiculous rich ridiculous Rodney: P is crazy. P is crazy. Brylan: Right. Dre: return Brylan: Well, I wanna hold let me let me provide this context because I think it like going back into this whole idea of deals and I know one of the topics we wanted to talk about was like a huge deal that was like announced this week. But yeah, what I even found interesting about like this whole, you know, Josh Kushner kind of being involved in this purchase is like that same day, his holding companies, which so Thrive Holdings, so like you know, he has Thrive Capital, which is like the growth stage. Just a few months ago they just came out and raised a ten billion dollar fund. Right. So like he just got in a huge injection of ca cash. And then that same day they announced the purchase of the Lakers, their holding company, which has been buying like accounting and IT service firms, so like lower middle market things of that nature and then plugging in AI, they just raised a new capital vehicle worth like two billion dollars. and so it's just it's just crazy I think one to just kind of see his orbit like really take off. and I'm anticipating even with like some of these IPOs because I know, you know, he had the huge SpaceX and they were, you know, big in that as well. open AI, you know, they've been in almost every single late stage deal that's been huge. but yeah, it just seems like in the world of public and private markets, bro. yeah, there's just a ton of deals being made. But Now I know we wanted to talk about NVIDIA and the five hundred billion number they dropped this week. Rodney: Let's do it. Dre: Yeah, so they they announced a partnership. It was kind of interesting watching them on CNBC. It's Brylan: Bro. Dre: kinda looked like the the the the mafia a little bit. They they're all sitting around Brylan: Fat. Dre: this round table, Jensen's at the head with his black jacket on, you know, the the Rodney: It's that that jacket. Dre: other guys around him, and then the journalist next to him talking to him. It's kinda like the little mafia. I mean, Jensen is the biggest guy in the room. I mean everybody who Rodney: Ha. Dre: wouldn't who wouldn't take a call from Jensen right now? If Jensen Wong calls you on the phone right now, who wouldn't pick up his phone? Everybody would pick up the phone. You gonna talk to him. Everybody might not do a deal with him, but you gonna talk to him. Rodney: I'll pick up. I'll pick up. What what do you want, Jason? Well you need. I can figure it out. Dre: Yeah, yeah. What you need? Brylan: Money, cash Dre: That's easy. That's easy. I got a hundred billion for you. I got a hundred billion. We could do it. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Dre: So NVIDIA essentially announced a partnership with Apollo, speaking of private equity, right? Apollo, BlackRock, Blackstone, Brookfield, Goldman Sachs, and KKR to create financing platforms that could essentially mobilize more than five hundred billion dollars. into third party capital over time. So essentially this capital will be used to help fund and finance AI and data center build out and infrastructure projects. I I assume here in the US, but it could be abroad as well. But I I know I assume it's here in the US. So essentially they're basically creating you know, a a a a financing, essentially a a finance instrument They can essentially be used to help finance data centers. But they're also doing something, Brian, I know if you saw this, but they're basically creating a a financial instrument that allows you to invest in GPU returns. So basically the whole premise is that GPUs over its lifecycle will continue to produce work, will continue to have a return on investment. And so basically you can package a bunch of different It's almost like similar to back in the you know, back in the two thousand eights. Brylan: The mortgage backed security. Dre: I was literally just getting ready to say that. Literally. Like that's the that's the Brylan: Yeah. Dre: theme that came to my mind. It's basically GPU back securities, essentially. So basically creating a financial instrument that people can essentially in invest in and and return on capital. So it it seems like the broader thing here is that NVIDIA is expanding beyond just a chip company. and it's not only just helping to finance the AI infrastructure. But it's creating these new financial instruments to help finance the AI infrastructure. and so I think it's really interesting. Again, they got some of the biggest pools of capital there there there is. I mean, Apollo, BlackRock, Blackstone, Brookfield, Goldman, Sachs, and KKR. I mean, that's the cream of the crop in terms of of of private equity, private private wealth management that there is. And so those are the folks that they're at least starting out with. Again, 500 billion in commitment. and so I think this is interesting. What did you guys think about? Brylan: think so so I want to provide a little bit of color because like it it's it's it's very interesting because you know before we before we hopped on kind of the connection that I have made was that like really they're starting to use these financial companies institutions to scale what has already been happening at the neo cloud level and even like SpaceX you know they they recently were getting a lot of like push back on like you know their debt that they raised via like their sp as well but literally it was the same blueprint of this type of deal and so literally the way this is working is the SPV that they're forming. So each of each of those financial institutions, Apollo, KKR, whoever, can have their own kind of like SPV, right? but the SPV is buying the GPUs from NVIDIA. And I think that is very important because NVIDIA is being guaranteed five hundred billion dollars in fucking revenue. Now the risk now now the risk that NVIDIA is taking on, I think is like twenty-five percent of that or something. So like a hundred twenty-five like billion dollars that you know, if things go south, they will be responsible for kind of like coughing up from like their war chest. But the SPV is buying the chips from NVIDIA, so the SPV is the owner of it. They're leasing they're leasing that compute out very similar to what SpaceX is doing to for anthropic and Google. And then the cash flow coming from the labs, the SPV is then paying back to specifically is life insurances and also pension funds. who are basically that's who they're raising the five hundred billion dollars in cash from. And I think the reason why this is Interesting is because like I said, like if you go look at Core Weave's whole business, literally Core Weave and SpaceX are literally doing the same thing, except they're they're just not going out there and getting finance companies. Right. and I think I think what really makes this one very interesting and stable is kind of like two things. The first one being like for this to I I was reading up on it for this to actually work for pension funds and life insurance companies to want to invest in. It has to be considered investment grade credit. and so investment grade credit just means it's like the safest of the safe like you basically have to guarantee the return. Like nothing can like fuck up for people that like aren't aware. and then I think the other thing too is like two things. There's a hundred billion dollars just in pensions and life insurance. not a hundred billion, a hundred I think it was like a hundred trillion. It was something crazy when I looked it up. It was like a hundred trillion dollars in assets or something like that, just in like life insurance. and and things of that nature. And then the other thing too that made this inter yeah, a hundred trillion. And then the other thing that made this interesting was the duration. Because pensions aren't usually being paid until 30, 40 years out, or even in terms of life insurance, like you have consistent payments coming in and then they're being paid out like decades or so, like you know, down the line, you you you they found they found the right the right capital source. And so I would say what's been very interesting is like we're now starting to see the later stages of capital deployment and what that funding is going to need to look like for like this next phase because originally, if we think about it, it was venture capital. We saw that in the early days of, you know, GPT. And now you're starting, you know, to you see these larger kind of like financial institutions kind of get involved. And I think the thing is how far how far are they willing to go? Right. Like six months from now or a year from now, are they gonna be like, shit, like this is going so well. We're willing to do two trillion. You have to go back to that Dre: Yeah. Brylan: capital source. And so I think that that the thing it the the thing that really fascinated me was just like the scale of this. But then more so like, bro, Nvidia just once again basically just got some guaranteed revenue, bro. Dre: Mm-hmm. The the I think the part of the strategy or the bet here is, and maybe this is the thing that NVIDIA's really kind of gone after, is that AI compute essentially becomes a utility. It becomes a Rodney: For sure. Dre: utility that every company, no matter what size, but every company in person, people, right, household will eventually need. And if you need this utility, just like if you own a home, Or if you live in a shelter, you probably are paying some utilities, water, electrical, something, right? For that, for that space. I think the bet is that AI compute becomes that same thing. and if that is true, then all this infrastructure is needed just in the same way that the water utility, the electrical utility, the internet utility, just like all of that has physical infrastructure. it and had to have high copp capital expenditures in order to get built out. It's no different here. So I think that's part of the play here. Whether or not that's right, I guess we'll see. I mean I hope so, right? All this all this capital being pushed in this way, that better be right. Right. but I think that's ultimately the play here. That's what it's starting to pan out, is that intelligence is becoming a utility, and people want it. People want it on demand and they want the best intelligence. They want it now, they want it quick, and once you get it, you can't stop using it. Rodney: No promises to the audience, and I have even talked to Dre and Brylin about all this, but there there we might do a pop-up pod where we talk about what a lot of this is gonna mean to the public and the changes and s and stuff like that. Typically we structure our podcast on topics and so we can't go into some of the conversations that we kind of we have in the in our group chats or on our phone calls, etc. So but I think they would be interesting and maybe one day soon we'll talk about that because what you guys are hearing is that there are trillions of dollars going into this AI infrastructure. So essentially that's going to change everyone's lives in some way. Likely in multiple ways. And there may be some effects to that. But I I do think I agree with Dre with the utility aspect. I also find it funny yet, Bradley, yes, they're creating in a way their own income in a way, but I don't know that's necessarily the main purpose other than the other than the the fact that it's just a necessary thing they have to do. They they have to do. They seem to be Brylan: Okay. Rodney: preparing for two worlds, digital intelligence and then physical intelligence. So our typical chat bots that we know, but then all the other things, all the other digital agents. But then you have the Waymo's, and then you have the Tesla robots and things of that nature. And there will be very multiple variations of both diff those different categories. And all of that will require a strong infrastructure of compute. If you're only just looking at the chatbot, you may not see that. It may not be clear, but they're looking at, this is a a world a the This is the world changing thing. This is the the laying that foundation for people to build on on the new world. Speaking of the new world, let's talk about something that I'm very, very optimistic about. I'm very happy about, although I'm a bit jealous that Dre's in the loc the right location. I'm not necessarily right right now, Dre: Hmm. Rodney: which is the Terra Fab. That was announced by Elon. This is a project through SpaceX and Tesla collaboration. It is, let me get the exact number. It is a hundred million square feet. So you could fit their tech their Giga Texas campus inside of it, the US Pentagon inside of it, Apple's campus inside of it. the ball of America inside of it and it's still be much bigger. It's equivalent literally to a city. And it's a very futuristic, autonomous campus where you see Teslas driving around autonomously, Optimus robots work doing random tasks autonomously. And it's going to be manufacturing chips. And likely doing other things as well. And they started the work on it. But let me give just a couple of facts on it. The goal is to have the reason why it's called Terafab is the goal is to have one terawatt of AI compute yearly. And I believe right now, typically we look at gigawatts as the standard for EI compute. The initial investment is seventeen billion. By the end of it, go ahead. Brylan: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. Before you get into the numbers, because I think it's not a lot of people thinking think thinking gigawatts. So a gigawatt is equivalent to powering one million households. A terawatt means that is enough like computer power for a billion households. Like the scale of what Elon is trying to achieve here with with the Terrafab is nuts. Like we think what is what we're seeing today is crazy. This is just one. It's not so yeah, I just want to provide that that frame. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. And they've started building and it's going to power cybercamps, optimists, these space data centers, s stuff of that nature. But this is classic Elon style where he's essentially saying, Okay, we have all this capital. We're not gonna just sit on the capital, we're gonna take it. Create a vision of the future and and and put money into it. And there's a lot that we can say about this, and I want us to comment on it. However, I do want to say something else. Moves like these, I think, make the other people who are sitting on hundreds of billions, whether it's Meta, whether it's Alphabet, whether it's Apple. consider what they need to be doing with the trillion dollars that they have. Because yeah, you have a trillion dollars, but what are you doing with it? Essentially, other than continuing to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze out of out of your and what Elon part of why it seems like Elon continuously stays competitive and wins is because He's not afraid to say, you know what, I I don't really care that we got five hundred billion dollars, tr trillion dollars, whatever it is. I'm gonna take a lot of this money and I'm gonna put it into the future. And that creates forward motion. And that inspires, that gives people something look forward to. And it's a very ambitious project, but It's very futuristic too. So I want to hear your thoughts on Terrafab and maybe even also too the how potentially other players might respond. Will they also respond with the admissions projects or will they just continue to hoard their money? Or who knows? Dre: I think I think what's crazy about this is not even just the scale. I think the scale is one one part of it. Which at this point I'm not even really shocked too much by because Elon has proven like with the Giga Factory and just some of the crazy manufacturing facilities that he's built already all over the world that he has the ability to build manufacturing facilities at scale. So yes, that is shocking to me, but it's like, okay, this is just classic, this is just what he does, right? He's the king at building physical stuff at scale. So this is what I would expect him to do. I think what's even more remarkable to me at least is the technical complexity of what he is trying to do. What this is attempting to do is to combine chip design, logic, memory, advanced packaging, robotics, and probably eventually the space AI infrastructure into one place, one facility, one integrated way of producing this. This is one vertical, vertically integrated stack. There are only a handful of companies in the world who can even attempt to do this. You got Taiwan Semiconductor. You have Samsung, they can do it. You have Intel, they can kinda do it, because they've been dying, but they do have the knowledge and capabilities. And now you have SpaceX who is entering into this this this this world to do this. I just think the level it is like again, scale is one thing and that should be celebrated celebrated and applauded. But to take on something that is this complex, I think is amazing. And to be honest, I think if Elon is is successful in this, this isn't just good for his companies because primarily it probably will be used for his companies. I think this is a a step in the direction for America because right now we've kind of lost our way and advanced chip. manufacturing and and especially domestically like yes Taiwan semiconductor is building I think a plant or have a plant built in Arizona that's been getting up to speed. But where are the American companies that are building? What happened to the the the the the industrialization that we used to have around advanced chip making and manufacturing? That has kind of like died away. And Elon is is is literally bringing that back in a new way and at a different scale that we've never seen before. So again, the scale is remarkable, but the complexity that they are tackling, I think is extraordinary. And so when I hear like I I hear the narrative of people talking about SpaceX employees wanting to sell a bunch of stock, I'm like, dude, if you are working at SpaceX, you are probably more excited and you have the best glimpse into the future probably than anybody else in the country. And you are probably more excited about the value the SpaceX is getting ready to walk into than anything that's currently happening right now. Because if they're successful in this, I mean, imagine what they're gonna be worth. I mean, this is crazy. So again, I wanna highlight the t the technical complexity. It's is remarkable. So yeah, I th I think that should be applauded. Brylan: Not like I think I I think you're spot on. I think, you know, when yeah, their S1 first came out before they you know, were officially public, yeah, that was like the main takeaway. I across like SpaceX, but also just Tesla in general is like this man has mastered manufacturing. And I don't know if people really understand how hard that is. is it it's just ridiculous. But now the thing that was interesting. was Elon did mention that 80% of the compute that the TerraFab will produce, it'll actually be for space based data centers. so only twenty percent of the computer is is is is is gonna be for here on Earth. But I think the thing that is also interesting about this is like regardless of if these chips and memory packaging, all this stuff ends up going to space or not, regardless of if SpaceX like ends up needing it just for their own products and in and businesses, they have already proven that like if demand digitally or physically with AI and robotics continues, other people are going to need it. And so the worst case scenario is we can Dre: Mm-hmm. Brylan: rent it out to others. And so it's like Yeah, when I when I look at SpaceX, because I know they're hovering, I think, around like that kind of like maybe a little bit above like their IPO kind of like initial price or whatever. But yeah, I think going back to what we were saying before, I think, you know, this is the case of a company where if you look out a few months to a year or so, revenue is going to change that market cap drastically. And then the other thing too Dre: Mm. Brylan: is like don't get me wrong, like they they they already got a crazy multiple, but I just genuinely can't see that multiple like changing. Like honestly I think they might Dre: It won't matter. You you Brylan: be Dre: you can't apply Brylan: No a Dre: the regular market multiples to anything Elon does. It's it is under it it under is it's disrespectful to be honest. It's disrespectful. Because the the returns that Elon brings to the market is way above his peers. I mean, even go go look at Tesla. I mean, go look at what they've done. They've out if you've owned Tesla shares since they won public and you own any other automaker shares at that same time. You've outperformed. Even if you go back to the beginning of when those tr those traditional automakers went public, you still outperformed on Tesla. It's it's just not even close. It's it's not even close. So I don't even think, even with the high multiples, I don't I don't think you can use normal business logic to what anything Elon does. He has a different way of approaching it, a different way of getting shit done, a different way of figuring out how to finance things, a different way of figuring out how to draw revenue. A different way of figuring out how to solve shit technically, a different way of figuring out how to how to hire and set up management. He just has a different way of doing it. And so I don't know if the current way of valuing things and the current way of looking at things really apply to him as they do everybody else. I think sometimes you gotta like see you know, you gotta like sit the outliers to the side a little bit and apply the framework to everybody else. I think Elon deserves that, that, that, that scrutiny to be a little bit different. Just based on what he's done historically. I think the tracker speaks for herself. Rodney: Definitely. And and and it and it takes multiple iterations. That I think that's why Terra Fab can be so ambitious. It's not that he just woke up one day at twenty five years old. thinking about Terrafab. He's you know he's in his fifties and he has created multiple factories. This is a long time coming of of a lot of successes and failures, a lot of doubting, a lot of a lot a lot of different things. And so and and you know actually it was funny I saw a comment in the on YouTube. And and so I was like but w why are you guys talk about Elon like he's a god and I and I and I and I didn't reply like we we we we we could reply if we want to but more so I think that to directly address that on the podcast we are just talking about what he's done nobody is deifying Elon I think if you just start talking about what he's done it starts to s it just starts to seem insane. We can't There's there's there's what else the there's what can we say? We look at what has been done. We're looking at the evidence. There there there's no just look Dre: Yeah. It's just a facts. It's just facts. Rodney: at the facts. It if if there it'd be different if and we're not saying he could just snap a thing or do whatever he wishes in his life. We're just simply saying the facts of the matter are is that he is not just making The trillion dollars that's a a distraction to be honest. Look at what he the future he is attempting to build. And you can start to see that over time through all his visions. And he's one of those few who went from the PayPal stuff into the the real world for w with much harder challenges and persisted and now it's paying off in a way where Yeah, a lot of people are doing software and I love software. I'm into the software. I often I'm often making software that bridges between the real world and and the physical, but it's just a compound effect I think we're seeing with with with him. So yeah. Dre: Speaking spe speaking of of software and bridging the physical, we gotta talk about Flock. I think Rodney, you you mentioned Flock it Rodney: Yeah. I got some facts. Dre: Flock has been they they've been floating around in the in in the atmosphere. Rodney: I got some facts. Dre: people are not happy, man. What's going on with Flock, bro? I think it's an amazing business, by the way. Incredible. I honestly I wish I started Rodney: Yeah. yeah. Dre: it. Or one of us started it. Rodney: So right. Well of course. Yeah, definitely. So Dre: Ha ha ha. Rodney: but because it's so obvious, it's not it's not that hard. Vlock if truthfully is not that hard. They took Dre: Yeah. No, it's not no. Rodney: cameras and then they added intelligence to it. You you Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: grab a bunch of talented engineers. Dre: Yep. Rodney: What the hard part is is being the founder and CEO and getting people behind the vision. And then being able to coordinate getting the sales and the deployment and the talent. That's the hard part. But the idea and the concept is not that hard. They took what was already existing, these cameras. Of course, there was some changes they made to hardware. But essentially, for those that don't know, Flock is a system that is meant to protect neighborhoods and then subsequently cities and they started off I think I first started seeing them about three years ago and especially in these neighborhoods where they are you know there's there's they're they're wealthier neighborhoods, right? And I think they went to homeowners associations. and these cameras can have they have good facial recognition. they can scan license plates very accurate. and they're set up around the neighborhood. But what's interesting is that people have seen a variation of flock in their typical shopping experience. Go to Walmart, go to Walgreens in some cases, go to CVS. That little that weird thing in the middle that looked like a satellite, what y'all think that's doing? What what y'all think what what what y'all think that look that that thing is doing? That that thing That thing is doing that thing is tracking stuff. Cause to reduce shopping theft, etc. But Flock, here's some facts around it. So Flock over the last few days has been getting a lot of heat. Essentially because one news story where and and they were they there were people talking about getting caught with Flock, but there was this one news story where a guy I I forgot what city it was. but he traveled to one city to to get some weed. Then he traveled back to another city, and they were able to triangulate that, and then he got caught. That's Dre: It was from Wisconsin to Michigan and Michigan back to Wisconsin. Rodney: Right. Dre: Yeah. Rodney: Right. So so so then he got s which is funny because it's the the things people will do for to for to get some weed is crazy. but that was his thing. And so that story sparked the conversation about wait, hold on. They're able to track us like they they got us tracked like that. And then that's when it all unf from there on out it unfolded. And here's some facts, but The network right now has over a hundred thousand AI license plate c cameras nationwide and There has been, which is a whole ton. So there's a whole network. You we really don't know where they're at. I I believe Dre said there's a lot of them in Houston. Once once you know what they are, you will start seeing them. It's just that if you don't know what a flock camera is, you're not gonna see it. It's just gonna bla it's not meant for you. It's not meant to be obvious. Go ahead. Dre: They they they have over they got almost four thousand flock cameras in the city of Houston. Apparently Houston's one of the largest camera networks in the country in terms of like cities Rodney: Jeez. Dre: where they have almost the most. So again, four thousand just in city in Houston. That doesn't include some of the suburbs Rodney: Crazy. Dre: and you know, some of the other areas. So that's just here in Houston. Apparently they signed a contract Brylan: And not Dre: back in twenty twenty two thousand twenty-two for six and a half million dollars. To roll out flock. Rodney: Giz. Dre: So Brylan: Now and and I and Rodney: Giz. Brylan: I saw I I saw also they're in seven thousand different cities across America. So Rodney: Right. I because because city governments and neighborhoods, it it it's too hard not to it's too it's too good of a deal for them. but some of the concerns that are coming up are one, in some cases, the police were misusing the data, so they w they were using it for personal stalking of certain of certain individuals. Now the thing is is that that's not uncommon in in these type of systems. police officers or just public officers have used technology meant to protect people to watch wives and and girlfriends and things of that nature. So that's not unusual behavior. It's not right, but that's that's not only on Flock, but when you have something as powerful as Flock, that could be a little bit more tricky for for individuals. Another thing is is that there were over 50 cities that canceled or rejected Flock contracts this year. However, to Bryan's point, there are still thousands of cities that have them. And I think and then what happened is is that they came out due to backlash and they reduced the retention policy from thirty days to seven days in an attempt to try to seem a bit more reasonable about keeping information on people because I think people's main concern is one, they didn't sign up w to to be watched. They didn't they weren't aware, although the thing is it's pu it's public. Now now There is no expectation of privacy in the public. I think maybe also too that that you have you shouldn't be watched unless you have a warrant. And and and and I don't know all the details around that, but I can see that point being pretty valid there. And there's a lot to be d to to to break down here, but essentially People were being watched and they were being scanned. They they might be thinking they're getting away with stuff. but and even insurance companies love this because if you report something and then you say, Hey, this happened and there's a flock network, then they can say, Well, no, we're gonna decline it because we know you're lying. And that and that that that's Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: that that's fair. But also at the same time. people not being aware of this stuff puts them in a position where puts them in a weird position. So I do think that maybe governments I don't know if neighborhoods should have to I don't know if a neighborhood should have to get permission other than the people in those neighborhoods. But I do think that maybe like cities themselves, like cities themselves probably should have been a bit more forward about some of these contracts, et cetera. Although we can obviously see why they why they weren't. Dre: Yeah. I think now that people are becoming more aware, like I was talking to talking to Nia about it and she's like, Yeah, what is flock? And she had no idea what it was. She had no idea that I'm like, Houston got four thousand and that's just what we think. Right? Like the city Rodney: Right. Dre: hasn't confirmed it's not like they have a map of where all the flock cameras are. So it could be more than that. Like Houston's a pretty large city, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was if it was a lot more than that. But yeah, she had no idea she was being tracked. So I think as citizens become more aware Then again, I think as citizens we should remember that we have the right to decide how we want our cities to be run. So if you're not happy with this, then go vote against it. Go change the law. 'Cause you can do it. That is possible. That is an option. Citizens do not have to just subject themselves to things like this. So if people decide they don't like it, then they can simply go change it. May not be simple, but It's a process you should they they can they can actually happen. So this is people see the world we're moving towards. People know that they're being tracked now at the local level. So it's time for citizens to decide if that whether or not that's the future they want to live in. Brylan: So so hold on, like speaking of that future, because I think one of y'all had also dropped that podcast or actually it might have been in one of the tweets I think Paul Graham responded to, of like, Yeah. Yeah. And ho and ho and homie was Rodney: yeah, the No Jumper Podcast. Yeah. Yeah my man's here. Brylan: funny. He was like he was like, he'll see your name tag, and next thing you know, it used to be a helicopter, but it's a it's a drone following you now. It and Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brylan: so think about it, you got the flocks, you got the drones following you, and then you know, a few weeks ago we talked about them using like the spot dogs, so the robotic dogs now, Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: you know, in in a lot of neighborhoods as like security. So it's like, what does privacy and like surveillance look like in the future? And how is that like how might that rewrite like how we should be thinking about like safety? Because that's where the that's where the tension is. It's like the trade off is if you Theoretically, if you wanna live in this more safe environment, whatever, what however you define that, you're gonna probably gonna give up some privacy. But it's like so how how how are y'all thinking about that future when you think about those three? Dre: Rodney said it. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Rodney: Right, right. So so I think our public our I think our private devices, our houses and property that we own, we should be able to have full privacy in those areas. And anybody that breaks into those for any reason, that's without a warrant, there should that that is an issue. That's not to say that if you are in a city and you don't want flock in your city not to vote against it. That's not to say that. That's just to say though that that the the strongest arguments for sure are gonna be in the private domain. There's no reason why somebody should be invading your privacy in your own home with without without some probable cause. Now, the public on the public aspect, I think that I think people should adapt. I I think stop playing around. Going back to that n going back to that no jumper interview. and and it's funny because the worlds collided, because No Jumper is not something that Paul but Paul Graham doesn't even know what No Jumper is. It's a hip hop podcast ran by Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: Adam Tw22, who has a whole whole thing going on with him and his wife. And that's a whole nother subject. And but it it it's so seeing those worlds collide was interesting to me, but Because Paul's perspective perspective was, this is a good advertisement for that your your technology works. Because essentially on that podcast, he was basically saying, Hey, look, we can't do drive bys. We can't even I can't even do I can't even do a drive by anymore. I can't I can't even do a drive by. If I like if I do that, they they got the place, they got they don't even send a cop car out no more. They don't they don't send a helicopter anymore. They got the and it's like and and like I say, i it's a clash of worlds because First of all, he's saying this and it's and it's for us, like we come from we come from look, we we we we we we live in multiple worlds, right? So so yeah yeah, we we we like we we see Brylan: We understand. We understand. Rodney: what he said. Like we see it Dre: Mm. Rodney: it's not right, but we see what he said. But also at the same time, the world where Paul's coming from, the world that we engage in and make a lot of our money from, we understand that and honestly, I think that we support that. We support that. So so so it's like you shouldn't be doing drive bys, okay? You shouldn't be doing crime. You shouldn't be doing all these different crimes. Like like it it's not Now like now if y'all find a way to get around those things, then that's a part of the game. If you find a w if y'all i it it's c it's cat and mouse at the end of the day. So if if flock is but I think that people shouldn't feel bad about it because nobody cares as especially as long as they have tools in place, like transpar transparency around the fact that people can't abuse these tools. And I and I think women are very especially sensitive to this. They don't want to be stalked. They don't want to be watched. They they don't want this idea of somebody is is tracking them. And when I hear the police officers, I can't lie to you. It could have been a woman police officer. I don't know. So I'm a bit biased. But if I had to guess, it's police officers with a wife or something. They might suspect the wife is cheating. And now they're going and typing in a license plate. And they're trying to see okay what where where are they at and all these different things, all these using it for personal and I think trying to prevent that level of abuse, if you can prevent that type of stuff, then I think that this is a good thing. I think flock is a good thing. I think people being vaguely uncomfortable with it is because it's vague. Be it's because there's vagueness around it. But in reality, no, you don't want people just to be doing all types of stuff. Like we want to see, for example, the shooting in Idaho. We I don't I'm not saying Flock could have prevented that. I'm not saying that, but what I am saying is is that and that may maybe maybe in the future it could have, who knows? But what I am saying is we would like to see potentially the whole route. The whole like what was this per like the whole route for that week? What was this person? We would like to easily be able to see that, right? Brylan: Do they do they do they share any of that? Well, I guess there'll be some some issues with that. But I was thinking similar to what is it? It's on your phone. They put the like people will record live. You know the app that I'm talking about? fuck, it's escaping me. But yeah, are they do they do they do they share any of this data like with anyone or yeah. Dre: Publicly? Tell me, like, is Flock Rodney: I think I Dre: share publicly? Rodney: don't think so. I think so. I don't I don't think so. and that's an interesting thing. Sometimes I think that this is this is such a crazy concept, but sometimes I I think that why can't you just type in Why can't you just type in Bell Isle and just see what's going on over there. Like like why why can't you? I mean it's a public era. citizen. Brylan: The the the the Citizen Act. Dre: citizen, yeah, yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's Rodney: yeah, I had to delete that man. It's crazy. You it's crazy. It's crazy. So Brylan: Ha ha. fe I feel like if low key if they wanted to build some trust bro go partner with or either go buy go buy citizen. Rodney: Yeah, for sure. I mean th there's there's some synergies there. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: Yeah. Dre: Yeah, I don't know, man. Th this is g I feel like the government tech is about to go to a next level. Especially again as the tool set become more advanced. You know, a lot of these local governments haven't had access to this and there's I mean tens of thousands of them all over the country, right? So what better place to be? To me what Flock kinda did kinda reminds me of like what Bird did in a way. Well they took a essentially Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Brylan: Mm. Dre: a a a commoditized off the shelf product, a camera. Come on, Rodney: Yes. Dre: like you can go to China and source some cheap ass cameras that are really, really Rodney: Right. Dre: good. Right. And then just build the software internally to kind of facilitate the fleet of cameras you got. Like it's kinda like that bird that bird model, literally. Right? But just, you know, through cameras in the city. So man, I don't know. It's interesting. There's never been a more exciting time, I think, honestly, than sell something to to governments. The fear the fear meter has never been higher. It's never been higher. Rodney: Yeah, that that that that that bird and flock coincidence is crazy. Uhhuh. The like just the the just the naming of the companies and the and the strategies Dre: I know, it's interesting. Rodney: it it it it it is interesting and and I do think that they were taking the bird approach 'cause the cause the bird approach was the Uber approach, which is that don't really fully ask for for permission from the people that you know are not going to agree. Like the don't don't like Now in Bird's case, no, Byrd really actually broke, which is dropping things places, with no permission at all. And same with Uber. Flock at least had was able to find a wedge of people, but maybe those people, those homeowner associations and all those and the city governments were not anticipating how what happens when they have a whole network. Like they may not understand network effects. They may not understand how the network creates this overarching view of surveillance, essentially. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: because you can just get you just do it for your neighborhood, you're not thinking that or even ring cameras can essentially do that. So if if a if everybody in a building has a ring camera, now essentially, or if or if fifty people have a bill 50 people out of 200 buildings have a ring camera. You have created pretty much a map of that whole building. So an employee can be in there and know what's going on in the building, the more ring cameras they have. Same thing with any neighborhood, Dre: Mm. Rodney: et cetera. So but you're but you're getting it for your your own individual purpose. But from the systems perspective, that's just a perspective. It's it's a it's a it's a it's an eye everywhere. So there's gonna be eyes everywhere. So I would just tell people to Try not to be in the crying. I would say that. I would try I would say Dre: Mm. Rodney: I would say don't don't think that nobody's watching. Don't think nobody sees you. you you're not you're not slick. yeah, you're not slick. You you're not slick. not judging though. If you're desperate, don't rob anybody though. You know, say that don't do that, but Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: But don't don't don't don't do that. But you know, if it if if it whatever you do, don't get caught. That's like whatever you do, don't get caught. And right now the Dre: Yeah. Rodney: tools to catch you are going to a super level. So it's almost like who else will be able to do the cause there will there will be criminals. So then who will be who will be Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: doing the new crimes? Will b Dre: Mm-hmm. Brylan: you see them evolving. Rodney: super. I see okay. Brylan: Like what if you if if so hold on. If you if you the guy on on on no no jumper, if he was to come to you and say, Hey man, like I know you really understand technology, the future, you know, that whole space really well, that's Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: that's that's not my lane. Could you mentor me? What are you saying? Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I already know what I'm saying. I'm saying I cannot involve myself in that. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: But but but but if I but if I but if I didn't have a if but if if I had the same intelligence without the the multi-million dollar career, then what I would say is okay, well these things are all a system. And all you have to do is understand how the cameras are made. And there are w there are many ways to figure out what's going on. So for example You it probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out how many cameras are actually in they're probably emitting some type of Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or whatever in these cities. So it probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out how many are in a city. And then it probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out the mappings of all these things. and then there's likely things that are there are likely things that an individual could do that could bypass detection. So essentially, okay, if they could track license plates, well then of course then you should be having either a license plate that's not easy to read. Or you should be having a stolen license plate. So so I mean, so and and then it's like i if if if you don't if it's your identity, okay, well, you probably shouldn't wear a shifty, right? 'Cause that could and they probably have that programmed to be suspicious. So, you know, you wanna be normal, but maybe something like reflector glasses, potentially. Where where y where it's not as easy to 'cause for example, if When I had reflector sunglasses, I couldn't use face ID. I couldn't use face ID, but if I had regular sunglasses, I could. So what does that tell you? What does that tell you? What does that tell you? So I'm I'm just saying that that that there are there are there are there there are there are ways, right? But I could not get I for me I could I couldn't you know I could I could you know I'm saying I'm sure there but but so I wonder if that some of these people They even though there's not their lane, do they get smarter or do you know, cause cause they could use AI to figure out some of the stuff easier? Which is probably what some of anthropics and open the eyes concern is. But then also too, they might just have access to people who are willing to take that risk, who are smart, engineers who are smart and have that mindset and know how to reverse engineer the systems, but I don't think it's that hard. I I just I just think that you have to actually know that you need to do it though. Dre: Man, interesting times ahead, man. Y'all wanna wrap it up there or y'all got something else on the table? Rodney: Yeah, we Dre: Hmm. Rodney: that's good. Dre: Alright, we'll catch up on the next one.