Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Mindwarp (4/4)

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Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Mindwarp (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:25
Welcome back to Our Hamster with a Blunt Penknife, the Doctor Who
0:28
Commentary podcast, where we are midway through the trial of a
0:33
Time Lord. We have hits Episode 7, we're
0:36
now going into episode 8 and it's all about to kick off.
0:42
Are we at the Bon Jovi point? The Bon Jovi point.
0:45
The Bon Jovi point, yes. The Bon Jovi point.
0:49
Sing Bon Jovi's most famous song to me.
0:52
Oh, living on a prayer. For the SO, certainly living on
0:57
a prayer. We're halfway there.
1:01
We are, and we, there's been a whole lot to discuss, and I
1:07
really haven't quite got to the bottom of why I like this now,
1:11
because we've discussed why I didn't get on with this at all.
1:15
But I just felt we often criticize 80s Doctor Who
1:22
production values. It's one of those things that
1:25
the show gets criticized for a lot of the time, but this story
1:29
looks and sounds amazing, and I think that carries so much.
1:34
As we've said, because of doing the commentary, we can't hear
1:39
Richard Hartley's amazing score for this story, but it really is
1:44
brilliant. And it's such a shame it is the
1:46
only score of the 1980s that doesn't exist.
1:49
But they've lost the tapes because I'd love to hear it
1:52
divorced from the from the action, the.
1:55
Music. The music where Perry wakes up
1:59
and Nicola's giving that performance as Kiev, and there's
2:03
just a very gentle theme that's playing underneath that scene
2:07
that's building. And building when when Crozier
2:12
puts her head back down and it's just, yeah, Oh yeah.
2:17
And I think that really adds to the atmosphere.
2:20
And like we said, I found it really unsettling because the
2:23
music doesn't ever make you feel comforted at all.
2:27
It's always a bit wrong. It's there to wrong foot you.
2:33
It's there to add that atmosphere and it does it in
2:36
spades. And it's such a shame he never
2:37
got a chance to write for the show again.
2:40
I mean, imagine him. Although he wouldn't perhaps
2:43
have been a great fit for season 24.
2:45
Maybe but. This this episode had one of the
2:52
highest audience appreciation indexes of the season at 72.
2:58
This serial, I've just had a quick look, climbed.
3:01
Even so it started off at 4 million and this closes with 5
3:04
million and then it's 5.2 in the next 1.
3:08
So even a few more people came back after that.
3:10
So I think things are improving. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:16
I mean, we we all know that ratings is no barometer for
3:22
quality, but in terms of, you know, is this experiment or is
3:27
this whatever we're going to call it?
3:29
Is this working then? Yeah, obviously we're started
3:33
low, but we're building and we're building and we're
3:35
building. Like I said, when we get the
3:38
interveroids and we get towards the end, we are going to see,
3:42
you know, even more on top of that.
3:44
So you know, whoever came along and said well, well, there's
3:47
there's no extra jump in on point for the new audience and
3:50
that's the big flaws as was obviously talking.
3:53
Robbins, I'm always talking bollocks, but.
3:58
But it's like we said, isn't it? You do have these dramatic twist
4:02
within this structure, which means word of mouth could go
4:06
around. My God, Did you see Doctor Who
4:07
last night? Perry died in the most
4:10
spectacular way. And I've heard Bonnie Langford's
4:13
coming next week. My God, there's your extra.
4:16
Point 2,000,000 viewers. But we saw that with them with
4:19
Time flight, because I think Time flight Part 1, yeah, gets.
4:22
11,000,000. 11 on episode of the Davison Years, Yeah.
4:27
Crazy. Everyone, everyone comes in to
4:31
see that, watch that scene of oh, well, that was shit.
4:35
Crystal Palace anyone? It's a shame this doesn't have
4:38
quite that impact, but I mean, Earth Shock was at 9 million
4:43
already, so that lead wasn't but.
4:45
You know, some of the episodes of Season 22 were getting high
4:50
6,000,000, but we're not that far off.
4:54
By the end of the season, you're almost there again.
4:56
Yeah, but it doesn't have the time to build like an old season
5:02
does because we've only got 14 episodes.
5:04
We haven't got 26 episodes, so the word of mouth only has so
5:09
far to go because there's only so much of the series to.
5:12
Go Yeah. But saying all of that, I have
5:20
often identified single episodes of Doctor Who when doing these
5:23
commentaries. I think Inferno Episode 6, Case
5:27
of Andrazani episode 4, Cursor Fenrick Episode 4, which are
5:33
just remarkably good single episodes of Doctor Who in their
5:37
own right. I think Mind Warp Part 4 falls
5:41
into that category as well. I think this, whatever you say
5:45
about how the story's left sort of ambiguous at the end to the
5:48
fate of everybody, how it's presented, how it builds
5:52
dramatic momentum, how it's executed on the screen and how
5:56
it's acted, it's flawless. I think the, the, the key part
6:02
is, you know, you don't care about the mess at the end, You
6:06
know, when you're watching it, you know, you, you presented you
6:11
as well. We'll see shortly.
6:12
You know, it's, it's, it's one of those episodes where you are
6:16
just working towards the doctor saving the day.
6:19
But what happens is the doctor was took out and the day is not
6:23
saved. You know, that's that's all that
6:26
difference that makes with this is, you know, the Doctor doesn't
6:29
get to save the day. It's like a regeneration
6:31
episode. You know, the Doctor gets out of
6:32
every scrape until at such point as these contractors open, the
6:35
new guy's coming in and he doesn't.
6:37
So when you get there and you know, the Doctor isn't there to
6:41
save the day and Oh my God, they actually did kill Perry.
6:45
You know, it's, it's it's. This is this is what happens
6:49
when the doctor's not there. But more than that, it's it's
6:52
like, oh, shit, yeah. Actually, you know, we've just
6:55
saw that that cliffhanger with with Perry and everyone getting
7:00
gunned down. And personally, for a minute, I
7:03
did not think Perry was was in danger there.
7:06
You know, it's just the way of the show.
7:09
You know, the companion comes back and then to have that point
7:11
at the end where the companion doesn't come back, you think,
7:14
Oh, shit, oh, hang on. Well, no, his, his, his brains
7:20
in here. Now how they're going to get
7:21
that out? Oh, they're not they're.
7:23
Just going to. No doubt.
7:25
And then you have the the real resolution in the courtroom of
7:30
the doctor's reaction to that. And then it's.
7:34
Devastating. It's not really until, you know,
7:37
you kind of come back to it with a bit more of a critical eye and
7:41
go, well, what do you think the main wall?
7:42
What do you think of that storming tone and.
7:44
In the moment. In the moment, it's it's, it is,
7:48
it's a, it's a is a very effective bit of drama, really
7:51
is. I think as well the the moment
7:53
where the doctor's taken away, that's one of the best rug pools
7:57
in classic. Oh God.
7:58
You don't see it coming at all. It's, it's beautifully done,
8:02
isn't it? Yeah.
8:03
Like the way he walks backwards and then it elates in.
8:06
So you realize that actually it's connecting to the main
8:09
story. That's beautifully done.
8:11
But also as well, if you look through Colin Baker's time,
8:15
probably further back, but certainly in Colin's time, the
8:18
Time Lords manoeuvred him in attack of the side men to be
8:21
there to stop that. The Time Lords sent the 2nd
8:24
Doctor in the two Doctors to stop the carts Rhymer
8:27
experiments. There's been this sort of
8:29
gradual build. The Time Lords moved the earth
8:32
we find and and changed it into Gravelos.
8:36
Sorry, so the, the bit where she goes, we had to act, you know,
8:42
the they basically they were going to rival us in terms of
8:45
regeneration. We had to literally get rid of
8:48
everyone in that room and destroy all the evidence of
8:51
that. Because the whole, was it the
8:53
theory of evolution in the universe will be changed or
8:56
whatever it is. It's plausible as well.
8:58
There's a, there's a genuine motive and we've seen them
9:01
behave in that way already. It's a real dramatic high, I
9:04
think. And it's just such a shame that
9:07
they didn't have the nous to join those little bits up I.
9:11
Know, I know. It's so close.
9:14
Yes, you. Get the Russell T Davis
9:16
flashbacks now, wouldn't you? Yeah, exactly.
9:19
And that's why I remember, as we said when we did Cursor Fenrick,
9:25
that Fenrick was so exciting and so different because they did
9:30
try and join the dots between different things.
9:33
It was all there. Sorry.
9:35
It was. Yeah, I just did it.
9:36
You know, it was all there. Yeah.
9:38
And all they had, all someone had to do was have that moment.
9:41
But because we've got a disinterested script editor,
9:46
he's not had that moment to say, oh hang on, what we did last
9:51
year has fed into this and we just with, with two lines, we
9:56
could just draw this together and the doctors got a killer bit
10:00
of defence. But what you do get in episode
10:05
13 is when all of this comes to lie, that killer speech that he
10:10
gives, Yeah, exactly, you know, finally condemning them.
10:14
Yeah, but if he'd had just that extra bit of backup to say you
10:18
manoeuvred me to this, you sent my past incarnation to do this,
10:23
look at what you've become, and then did that speech.
10:27
Levine was there as continuity advisor.
10:29
Why wasn't he putting all this together?
10:30
Well, he wasn't at this point because he he turned against
10:34
JNT, so he's one of his enemies. JNT and.
10:39
Fraser Fraser, the ultimate enemy of Ian Levine, Who?
10:45
Knew. Well, after all that excitement,
10:46
I suppose we should watch. That.
10:47
Excitement. You watch this, haven't we?
10:49
Yeah, Like can't send Joe. Oh, you want me to behave like a
10:54
second rate God? 54321 off we.
11:00
Go oh oh, I do love these tiles. Do you not think Colin looks a
11:07
little bit like Kermit the Frog? Explain yourself in you know,
11:13
when you see the Kermit, the frog's sort of what he's got,
11:15
like the little dragon. Not really, no.
11:24
We'll look out for it now. We'll look out for it now.
11:27
Thank you. Darren Lit Randalls, Could you
11:30
just put Kermit into the titles for us?
11:35
Oh yeah, right. Where do we?
11:40
Oh, there's obviously not overrunning this week because
11:43
there's not much of A reprise there.
11:46
I wonder, you know, if Bennett Martin was like, well, don't
11:49
worry, I've shot her dead at the end of Episode 3.
11:52
And Eric, say, was looking to sort of, oh, no, I think we can
11:54
do better than that. I reckon we could strap her
11:56
down, cut her hair off, you know, cut her brain open.
12:01
And then shoot her down. Some would say she's been
12:08
heading in this direction the whole time, but.
12:11
We've got the ultimate think to the Chris, to their way, she
12:15
says. I thought it was a bit
12:16
gratuitous and a bit manipulative, says the Doctor.
12:20
And it's exactly what the show does, week in, week out.
12:25
It's it's again, it's like it's, it's very meta.
12:28
The the courtroom is, is, you know, reflecting the show back
12:33
on itself. But it's not what you want.
12:36
You should be doing that when the show's confident and at its
12:39
height. We probably shouldn't be doing,
12:42
shouldn't be doing it there, maybe.
12:43
Shouldn't be doing it at all. Shouldn't like oh.
12:46
The. Piss out of your fans in the
12:49
middle of an episode maybe. Oh, that bad share Jesus Christ.
12:54
The geek call I'm wearing my Telus T-shirt tonight, so I.
12:57
Can't take the piss out of them, you know?
12:59
Because we're, I mean, they're listening to this show.
13:01
Oh, the seven legged charges of Corabem, he says.
13:07
My brain feels like it's been yeah, the little details and the
13:12
slave fish. Just all those little details I
13:14
love. Yeah, there's some good world
13:18
building. It's.
13:20
One of my favorite. Lines might be the same one.
13:24
He says. I wish you'd all just shut up.
13:29
No, I liked it where he said to you, Carlos, you're just enough
13:32
in love with death to get this rabble going, you know?
13:37
That's not the exact line. Why is the Lord Cave Speaking of
13:41
such things? He hates seawater.
13:47
Am I thinking of fish? Chris and Ryan after the last
13:50
episode off I think he was was little.
13:55
Bits. He was there a little bit.
14:02
You see all that gobbins there in that equipment?
14:05
It's just perfect for a doctor, isn't it, to get in there.
14:07
And yeah, well, why that's. It at the end of episode 1 where
14:10
he's pulling the wires down and reconnecting bits and.
14:15
You have reduced the greatest financial brain to a catcher of
14:18
sea snakes. That's the negus you're talking
14:23
about there. Sometimes the only thing more
14:27
dangerous than a question is an answer.
14:31
I love the negus. Actually, the negus and the seal
14:34
are quite similar, right? Maybe it's inspired.
14:40
Certainly there's a lot of Latex.
14:41
In both of them. It's.
14:44
That. Prophet LED society as well.
14:49
Why doesn't Kiev have nipples? Does that mean Cell's actually
14:58
the female of the species he'd. Have more nipples then.
15:05
Oh, here's this lovely scene in the.
15:06
Cell it is. This is gorgeous.
15:09
It could be so pony because the line is.
15:11
Well, what is that? Well, it's love.
15:14
Yeah. It's it's that.
15:15
Classic thing, that sort of TOS thing.
15:18
But this now this insight into her where she says I just want
15:22
to be with people I love. And she's been homesick since
15:26
Ravalox as well, you know. Not so much for a place, but a
15:30
time. And.
15:32
It's, it's, it's a bit foreshadowing, isn't it?
15:34
Because we've had that scene in the first episode where she
15:39
says, I mean it, I want out. I'm done with this, I want out.
15:43
And now she's like homesick. So it's, it is kind of like
15:46
telegraphing a little bit. You know Perry's going to go
15:50
home after this one and be nice and safe and happy.
15:53
Like she, she has sort of objected a lot throughout her
15:57
run. You know, I want to go back to
15:58
the TARDIS and all of this. I do think there's a shift in
16:01
her character this year, though. She does have more agency.
16:04
She is a stronger character. I think in Trial of the Time
16:07
Lord, she's less of a victim. Well, she's, she's the ultimate
16:10
victim in this, but she knows her own mind.
16:16
Exactly. Not for much longer, she
16:18
doesn't. He delivers these lines about
16:21
become a. King.
16:23
With such warmth in his voice, anyone who says he's just
16:27
shouting, it's bullshit and. It's just lovely when when she
16:30
ends up laughing with him. Why?
16:33
To fight? What else?
16:36
That figures. It's lovely.
16:38
Clean it straight. Yeah, poor old dwarfs trying to
16:42
laugh with those fucking teeth in his.
16:43
Mouth. But that is a really gorgeous
16:46
scene and it's just one moment of of something nice.
16:55
Well, but also as well the bit in a minute and it's just a very
16:59
quick scene where he says die well my lady when she goes off
17:02
and the music there. Yeah.
17:05
It leaves you with no illusions as to Perry's not coming back.
17:11
Oh, female. Quite unsuitable.
17:13
Stupid, helpless flippity. Chippity.
17:18
People say that enough today. Yeah, he's definitely the doctor
17:24
again. Isn't he?
17:26
So now he's putting it on. Now he's he's pretending to be
17:29
on the side. That's a that is a very funny
17:32
line. You have feelings for the woman,
17:34
or certainly enough to not want to see her be experimented on?
17:37
Yes. Oh, Colin's so great.
17:43
I I would have really liked to have seen Colin with another
17:46
script editor just for a couple. Yeah, he really deserved.
17:49
It he did well and he got it, didn't he, with Big Finish?
17:52
Yeah. And look what he did.
17:55
Here we go. Here.
17:56
We go look at her. Oh.
17:58
She holds his hand and then. There's real affection there.
18:01
You can, you know, if it was, you know, if this, if it did end
18:05
with, you know, actually, no, I don't want to come with you
18:08
anymore and I'm going to stay here and, you know, turn this
18:14
silly old bird into. Oh boy, look who's here.
18:19
You wouldn't believe it, wouldn't you?
18:22
You would. You would you would.
18:24
This old man mentor is just my favorite.
18:29
Oh, thank you for your life. It was nothing.
18:33
No for not shouting it's. Great, I love his little, his
18:39
little bubble bath next to him and.
18:41
Yeah, I like a bubble bath. Yes, of course I've got.
18:44
A question for you Joe, please. Does this old mentor have
18:49
nipples? Oh, let's have a look.
18:51
Let's have a very good look. He'll be back in a minute to
18:56
the. Big question, it's.
18:58
Disturbing me that. Some of them have got nipples
19:00
and others haven't. You know, I feel as if the
19:02
continuity for nipples should be.
19:05
Yeah, Oh. This is horrible.
19:08
Isn't this the bit where they put the gag in her mouth?
19:11
No, not yet. It actually, you know, that bit
19:13
at the end of The Devil of Christmas that yeah, inside #9
19:17
episode where Jessica Raine's restrained and it's just not.
19:20
It's like that. That's what this is like in a
19:23
minute. The worst bit I think, is when
19:26
they start cutting her hair, and that's always, and it sort of
19:31
takes you back to the sort of World War 2 collaborators having
19:34
their hair cut off violently. It's quite visceral, isn't it?
19:39
It is, yeah. I always thought even as an 11
19:43
year old, I found that really uncomfortable to see.
19:48
There is. It happens in Earth shock, it
19:51
happens here. It doesn't happen very often.
19:53
You know, when you get that gut feeling of something is going
19:58
wrong here and maybe this isn't going to end the way we expect
20:04
it to, it slaps around the edge. Did you, you know, you said the
20:11
old man was on a bubble bath. Did you see a minute ago where
20:13
he was sort of putting the water over his tail just for something
20:17
to do? Now where did you learn?
20:20
Where did a well brought up king like you learn a word like that?
20:25
He comes out and swears here, because that's quite enough of
20:28
that. Oh, look at Colin's face.
20:32
Oh fuck, when he gives him the gun.
20:35
I was. Priceless.
20:36
You'd be so stupid. Grand Witcher.
20:43
That's quite enough of that. And Colin goes you in and then
20:48
your Carlos just shoves him in there really hard.
20:53
Because I'm very confused. I've told everyone I'm going to
20:55
kill you. You.
20:57
Are scum. Brian blesses to live with that.
21:00
He is door fat. You are scum.
21:03
And the Doctor just revealed his name there, and I'm known as the
21:06
Doctor. I must know he goes.
21:10
You are my enemy. I've sworn to kill you.
21:13
Well, we'll do it later, All right?
21:14
Oh, wait. Where's my bride to be, Perry?
21:17
Oh, it's wonderful. It does.
21:22
There is a real pace to this Episode 4.
21:25
Yes, it's got momentum. There's a lot of there's two
21:28
episode fours that are a let down.
21:32
It's a creep and dread, you know, everything.
21:34
Things are happening with Perry now and you know when when you
21:37
know when you can go back. But even still, you know, you're
21:40
just thinking we're just counting down now with Perry
21:43
being saved and, you know. Don't you love the bit where
21:46
Philip Martins isn't a documentary?
21:49
JNT came up to him and said Perry has to die.
21:55
And he said he was there at a party with her, sort of looking
21:59
at her, thinking of all the various ways he could have her
22:01
killed this. Beautiful young lady in front of
22:04
me. Oh yeah, this is the bit.
22:08
I vowed to kill you. I mean, they're a great
22:15
combination as well, Colin and Brad Blessed.
22:17
I mean, you would think there wouldn't be a camera big enough
22:20
to contain the two of them. Everybody has a point these
22:24
days. The doctor goes, we haven't got
22:29
time for you to go courting. It is funny, Gilliam.
22:38
Off the ground. I think, Saywood says, doesn't
22:40
he on the documentary, he thinks this is the best one of the
22:43
year. Yeah.
22:45
I don't, I, I, I think dramatically that is true in
22:49
terms of entertainment. I just.
22:52
Don't know it. Might be for a voice, yeah.
22:55
We should probably measure it by body count for Eric.
22:58
Yeah, there we go. There we go.
23:00
Oh, and that's it. Is that the last we see of her?
23:06
No, no, it is when they cut her hair, isn't it?
23:09
In a minute. Yeah.
23:10
Oh yes. Shave her head.
23:15
Yeah. Oh, here we go.
23:18
Yeah, I'd have to go in the schmooze.
23:20
I will of course get your carte. Blanche from Cruise, Yeah.
23:28
I love that set that scaffold with.
23:30
The lines. It's fantastic A.
23:33
Little Jacuzzi in the corner. Why?
23:35
The hell didn't they get this designer back?
23:38
Yeah. I've got about 18 things so I
23:42
could have on the production alone for my fabulous things at
23:45
the end, I thought I might try one of those brain implant
23:50
things on him. You know I.
23:53
Thought you were going to kill him.
23:58
Be quiet, wizened one, or you'll be the first to die.
24:05
Young Crozier. We're just watching and quoting
24:08
now. I know.
24:10
But you know, I do think Philip Pan can write a line like.
24:13
Yeah. Oh yeah.
24:14
I mean, he's, he's a very good writer.
24:16
This and Varos I think are good. Ask for lines.
24:22
Oh, thank you. Your life, it was nothing.
24:34
I should know what he's truly getting his money out of the dry
24:36
ice machine, isn't he? This.
24:38
Week it is. Well there was supposed to have
24:40
a lot more Yeah. You know, the scenes in the
24:44
early episodes were like the winning down tunnels and getting
24:47
lost and people can't find them. It's it's you're not really
24:50
well. I hope they're not see like Dorf
24:53
and helping. They're not you know see all
24:55
these things. And it's because the the, if you
24:57
watch with like the production titles on and it's that's
25:01
supposed to be absolutely swamped with mist.
25:06
See, you realise here as well just how obscene the mentors are
25:09
in that they've captured this race, turned them into slaves
25:12
and then implanted things so they don't rebel.
25:16
Yeah, they're they're hideous, aren't they?
25:20
But they're funny, so we like them.
25:25
Here he goes. I'm quite capable of making my
25:28
own decisions. Oh, I just love him.
25:34
I think that's a row. I'd want to play I.
25:36
Mean if. Just go.
25:42
Who is that actor? So it's such a little cameo
25:46
role, but it's so well played. Look at this.
25:52
Look, he's so chilling and cold, isn't he?
25:56
He is. He is the Nazi scientist now,
25:58
isn't he? And that is where him playing it
26:00
sort of very underplayed really works.
26:03
And it's it. There's still hope for Perry at
26:05
this point. There's still.
26:07
Time. Well, the doctor's going to get
26:08
that. He's literally running with King
26:10
Yukarlos at the Contempt. Great stuff.
26:14
Golf's been shot. You know, it says bits of slow
26:16
MO here as well. He cuts to bits of slow MO in
26:19
the tunnels. He's trying lots of things.
26:22
Good on you, Ron Jones. And I just, I don't know, I just
26:28
fucking love the dry ice coming down from the ceiling.
26:30
Now with the lights, it feels really stylish.
26:38
I know it does make me wonder. Doctor Who can look like this?
26:42
Throughout the whole 80s, you know, and it should have done,
26:46
there are good looking stories, but it is it is hit and miss
26:50
with the lighting I think oh this dorf is dead.
26:55
Yeah. And again, it's good music that
27:00
helps sell this. And, and he says these lines in
27:04
a really restrained way, like he doesn't want to cry.
27:06
No, no, he died fighting and. He was on the move, yeah.
27:10
And then he then he loses it. I demand the privilege of
27:14
initiating the demise of the mentors.
27:21
Where's he from again? Sai the.
27:23
Posicor, Ambassador. Yeah, he's ugly, isn't he?
27:27
Jesus, that's. Very pink.
27:30
Very pink yeah he's been out in that sea.
27:33
That's why you're doing you're doing so to my negotiations.
27:39
I'm going to use lose a very important.
27:40
Fish concession, do I? It's a great ball cap as well.
27:49
Very, very good. I mean, she must have cut her
27:52
hair a bit because there's no way it's gone underneath that.
27:56
You can see, yes, you can see the join.
28:00
Ah, it's still great, though I think I've seen a lot worse.
28:04
So. Oh, I see.
28:05
So they're destroying the system now so the slaves all sort of
28:08
can break free. They do their sort of
28:10
interpretive dance in the. Corner they do.
28:12
They spin a lot. Colin Why couldn't Yukardos and
28:20
Perry have gone with Colin? It would have been great.
28:24
Imagine him every episode. Oh, get me off the TARDIS.
28:27
He's. Just going for it now we're.
28:32
Getting the alarm going and the strobe lights and the general
28:36
chaos and carrying Sill and Kev, you know it.
28:43
I have a fault then, but I'm keeping it in my head.
28:48
Does does it involve nipples? It involves that that gorgeous,
28:53
muscley person of colour holding seal.
28:57
I wish. Muscley for 80s donkey too.
28:59
Beautiful, isn't he? I mean, you'd just cover him in
29:02
Tarama Salah, wouldn't you? Oh, here we go.
29:06
Here we go. Yeah.
29:10
The Doctor rushing in at the last minute to save his
29:13
companion. This bunch really.
29:14
I've come from RADA. Oh, here we go.
29:16
Yeah. Oh, and the music.
29:19
Down. It's down.
29:24
I mean, that's because he is walking backwards there, isn't
29:27
he? Yeah, yeah, that's that's a real
29:30
skill that. And then straight to that
29:34
fabulous model. Oh it is beautiful.
29:37
It's always lovely to see that TARDIS again.
29:41
I love a TARDIS spinning into space shot.
29:45
Now, yeah, now this is so it's the same feeling you get in
29:49
Earth shock when the Cyberman destroys the console and you
29:52
know we can't go back. And say, battery seriously
29:55
pressing the buttons trying to yeah.
29:58
Now he's impotent. This has happened and he's here.
30:02
He's been wasting time saying Brickyard and backyard while
30:05
Mary's been murdered. And it's very odd that the
30:08
Inquisitor knows she knows what's going to happen and she's
30:14
the the line from Gallifrey. It's not the Valley Yard.
30:18
His line though of and they took it upon themselves to act like
30:21
second race gods. That is a blinder of a lion, and
30:27
Colin is just built for those sort of lines.
30:29
You. Yeah.
30:30
You can't imagine Peter Davison. I.
30:33
Can't even really imagine McCoy saying those sort of lines.
30:38
Every doctor has their strengths.
30:41
He need never die. Dylan hates this scene with
30:47
Patrick Reich. I think he's wonderful in this
30:49
scene. I think he's wonderful.
30:52
I really. Well, because he's excited, but
30:55
he's still not going up, is he, you know?
31:00
I think it's a very good performance.
31:03
It's, it is, it's it's a great performance by by Patrick
31:07
Ricott. It's it's just not, as you know,
31:11
screen filling as perhaps this chap Brian Blessed.
31:15
Because what do we do? 2 guards, 2 of us, we fight like
31:18
warriors. Oh, and I love the effect of
31:23
the. Bubble.
31:24
Yeah, 140. And the sound Mills's soundscape
31:28
for this is so good. This is what I mean though.
31:32
But the execution of this, it's just so perfectly done, yeah.
31:37
Look at Colin's face there, Carlos will never know that he
31:40
was used. And like I said, it makes sense,
31:44
right? It is a threat to the Time Lords
31:46
if you can regenerate anybody. And Oh my, and Nicola Bryant is
31:52
chilling here. Yeah.
31:55
And that the this is where, you know, Ron Jones absolutely has
31:59
learnt to do mood because he has this chilling sequence where she
32:04
does the speech and then it cuts to a joke where he goes, I wish
32:08
she could have found the more attractive one.
32:10
And then bam, it cuts straight to Yokanos in slow motion coming
32:13
down the corridor. Oh, yeah, I can, I can see the
32:21
line. Yes, but it's still.
32:23
Quite, yeah. And she's dropped the accent,
32:27
hasn't she? Yeah, and she's dropped the
32:29
pitch of her voice. It's.
32:32
Oh. So it's like Janet Fielding does
32:34
in In Kinder and Snake Dance, and it's just as unsettling.
32:40
Yeah, I've, I've watched Nicola recently on one of the Stranger
32:46
videos. You know the BBZ once where she
32:49
got to play an evil sentient planet, right?
32:52
She was so scary and it did make me think, oh maybe they wasted
32:56
her a bit. And talked to her because she's
32:58
really. Good.
33:01
Oh, here he comes. You know, guys, it wouldn't
33:06
surprise you to know that in my life I've always wanted to have
33:10
a. No, no, haven't we all?
33:17
Just once didn't. Hey don't say that's how he
33:19
wants to go out. Self sacrificing himself like a
33:24
hero. But that's that Silk killed.
33:27
He's no, he's just that. Moment of shock.
33:29
He's still but. That moment, that look on his
33:33
face. Patron is there.
33:37
She's about to get it. She.
33:38
Is you're right, yeah. So that's a liquefier.
33:41
He's literally liquefying people, right?
33:44
Everything, yeah. The fade to Wyatt as well.
33:48
Oh, that's. Perfect, isn't it?
33:49
It's so great and. Then Colin's line.
33:52
Perry. Killed Perry.
33:55
We had to act. So good look at that.
34:01
And it's a side to him we don't see.
34:03
Is it often? And the valiards then just
34:07
twisting the knife. But look, look how pallid and
34:15
corpse like the valley it looks at the minute.
34:20
Like he's feeding on it. And I every intention of finding
34:25
out what it is. But he deserves it this time.
34:30
Yeah. Seven out of eight.
34:32
I don't know if I would have gone out with him smiling there
34:34
in the credits. Zoom in on an angry face.
34:38
Zoom out on a smiling face. Oh fuck that was a great
34:42
episode. It is a great ending and the
34:47
shock of that, I can remember just the shock of that scene
34:51
where Perry sits up with and it's not Perry.
34:57
I think no, Stephanie not getting out of it this time
35:00
those. Two surprises.
35:01
Those two big surprises. So Perry dying and then the
35:04
reveal of the Valley yard, I think they're the two sort of
35:08
dramatic highs of the story, aren't they?
35:11
But that is just bravo Ron Jones, because I think.
35:16
Yeah, I mean, he's going out on a high I.
35:18
Think yeah, I mean like he's. Like the reverse Peter Moffat,
35:22
Who Peter Moffat gets worse as he goes along and Ron Jones gets
35:26
better as he goes on. Like, I think that probably is
35:30
the best directed story of the season.
35:32
Yeah, we'd never have thought that.
35:34
I think Chris Cloth acquits himself really well in the last
35:37
6 episodes, but I certainly think that's the most starting.
35:39
It doesn't have to. I don't think Vervoids has got
35:42
the production values that that has got.
35:45
No, it's got the cast though. Yeah, it will, exactly.
35:48
And that makes up for it. Well, fellas, you know what we
35:52
got to do now? OK, we've got to.
35:55
Go in for tonight. He's got to go to bed at some
35:57
point. At some point I saw.
35:59
Three fabulous things. Let's start with Fraser, then
36:03
sigh. And then me.
36:05
Well, I'm just going to go straight in there with the
36:07
biggest fabulous thing of all. Brian.
36:13
Blessing. Yeah.
36:17
I mean, what a turn it's, you know, you, you bring very
36:20
blessed in for a reason. You don't bring him in to, you
36:23
know, sit in the corner, be quiet.
36:24
He he, he delivers in spades what you've what you want from
36:30
him. You know, he is, he's larger
36:33
than life. He's bigger than the screen
36:34
itself. He just explore, you know, every
36:37
scene that he's in a you just can't miss Brian Blessed being
36:42
there. But at the same time, as he
36:44
says, as we've said, he is, you know, bringing that bit of
36:48
nuance in there. He's he's he's bringing the the
36:52
layers to your carnos and he's just added and so, so, so much,
36:58
you know, I'm so happy that we've got an episode of Doctor
37:03
Who, the Doctor Who story that's got Brian blessed and it being
37:07
Brian Blessed, Nick. We got this far and we never
37:13
even mentioned the anecdote about him turning around and
37:15
said well never mind the fucker ONS.
37:22
It's I do know, I think that it's just that scene in the
37:25
cell, like I think he's brilliant for out, but that
37:28
scene in the cell where he just dials it down and there's like
37:31
one line reading where he says to Perry, I care nothing for
37:35
mine when he's talking about his life.
37:37
I I see a future for them because he's not all just
37:41
bluster. Anyway, sorry, sorry.
37:44
I'm going to go from Richard Hartley, because the music.
37:46
Bastard. I know, right?
37:49
But the music is just fantastic. It's hugely unsettling, it's
37:56
hugely atmospheric. It's working with the story to
38:01
make the story memorable and creepy and weird and it's such
38:08
a, as I said, it's such a shame it doesn't exist because I'd
38:11
love to hear it. He rescored it for the 5.1
38:15
version on the DVDs and the Blu-ray or the Blu-ray set, and
38:18
it wasn't quite as good. It was almost there, but it's
38:22
not not the score. There's so many great bits, but
38:26
Joe, that bit, the use of where Perry wakes up with and it's
38:31
just quiet, but it really underscores it and it gives it
38:35
such menace. It's the second I canola thing.
38:38
James Lark said it. He he he starts low so he can
38:41
build and build and build to a real sort of dramatic high.
38:44
But if you don't start low, you know where a lot of people come
38:48
in, Bam, you know, Yeah. And yeah, and fair play to JNT
38:53
for actually finding new people to come and do this.
38:56
This is not the Radiophonic Workshop.
38:58
This isn't Roger Lim and Peter Howell and Paddy Kingsland, and
39:03
it does change the the sound of the show and the atmosphere.
39:07
Next week we're back to Malcolm Clarke's farting music one last
39:11
time, you know, So it's not quite there, but it's so good.
39:20
My first one is going to be Ron Jones and I really think he
39:26
learn how to make science fiction on the shoe string
39:30
across 5 or 6 different stories. I think he went on a massive
39:35
education. He I think I remember reading
39:38
that he had no clue about special effects at the star or
39:40
anything You can tell look at those dreadful great turd
39:43
plasmatons in time flight, you know, and look at how he films
39:46
the rock in this in the shadows, no long shots.
39:51
You know, he learns how to do it.
39:53
And I would have given Ron Jones Paradise Towers to do, because I
39:59
don't really write Nick Mallett as a director.
40:01
And I think Ron Jones would have done a much more atmosphere.
40:04
Imagine we've written Richard, not Richard Hartley.
40:07
The lighting guy from Mind Warp was lighting Paradise.
40:10
Yeah. And the sets.
40:11
And. Richard Hartley was doing the
40:13
music and he it would have been really dark and menacing and
40:16
twisted and there's lots of things I love about Paradise
40:18
Towers, but I think it would have been a better production.
40:20
Yeah, he's great. And I think to walk the
40:24
tightrope of doing comedy scenes, dramatic scenes, scenes
40:29
of torture, you know, action, atmosphere, mood, yeah, it's
40:36
just all in here. And bravo to him because I
40:40
really do think he was pretty shit.
40:42
And somewhere around Frontiers, he really started pulling it
40:45
together. So, Ron Jones, Ron.
40:48
Jones OK, My second thing I'm going to pick then is Nicola
40:53
Bryant. I think, you know this, this is
40:59
a great story for Perry. Like we said, not many people,
41:03
not many companions get the opportunity to be separated from
41:08
their doctor. But then be the one that drives
41:10
the story for you. Obviously, the doctor has been
41:12
mind warped and not really doing much.
41:15
He's on the side of the bodies now.
41:16
So it's up to Perry to stir the resistance to, you know, drive
41:22
the plot forward. So it is a well written parfa.
41:26
But ultimately, you know, it's Nick Labright that's that's
41:29
filling this role. And there's just so many lovely
41:31
bits of business between her and Brian Blessed and her and the
41:35
doctor as well. Since coming in in Planet Fire,
41:39
she's she's not been served the best, but she's always done the
41:45
best that she can with what she's been given since this
41:50
story. You know, she's going to be a
41:52
wonderful ambassador for the show.
41:54
She's a very lovely person. If you do get the chance to meet
41:57
her, which I have done in the past.
41:58
And this is a really good ending for her.
42:02
This is a really top notch way for her to go out.
42:05
And I'm so glad that she gets that last scene where she can,
42:08
you know, drop that accent, then really sure, full on what she's
42:16
capable of. We've seen, we've seen it
42:18
nuanced. We've seen it, you know, scraps
42:22
fighting for scraps when she can.
42:23
But that last scene really just gives her that chance to say,
42:26
look, this is this is what I can do.
42:29
I'm off SO. She she knew as well, didn't
42:32
she? Because when she found out about
42:34
the rewriting at the ending, she was appalled.
42:37
She said no, kill me off. I want to go out and style.
42:40
Be killed off. She she didn't want some sort of
42:42
like anemic departure, which was just like actually, doctor,
42:46
after you remained I'm off now by she wanted a full on, you
42:50
know, blood and Thunder departure and it's what she got.
42:55
It's what she deserves. And she goes for it.
42:57
Yeah, she really, really embraces it.
43:00
It's amazing. Sigh.
43:04
OK, I'm I'm going to pick last time I said we're waiting to see
43:11
the true magnificence of Michael Jason.
43:13
And I think that this story we do and the Valley Yard is
43:17
really, really well written. Here he is on the offensive.
43:24
He is pushing and needling the Doctor all the way through.
43:28
He's pointing out those things that the audience knows, that
43:31
the companion gets into trouble twice as often as the Doctor.
43:35
Whether the story should be doing that is, as we've said,
43:39
questionable. Perhaps.
43:41
But the fact that the Baillard is there and Michael Jason is
43:45
relishing getting at Colin Baker, just pushing him,
43:49
needling at him, pointing out all the flaws, all the things
43:55
that we all know the doctor is, is is at fault for.
44:01
And particularly this doctor, it's really great.
44:04
And he's he's so good. He really is so brilliant.
44:10
And that voice and like Fraser said, just that bit at the end
44:13
where he looks, he's very pale and he's skull like.
44:17
And you know, he's a baton. It's it's really great.
44:23
Who is? I'm trying to look up who the
44:26
set designer is for. Andrew Howe Davis.
44:29
Well, bravo, Andrew Howe Davis, I think you came into this.
44:33
You've been given standard Doctor Who sets a laboratory,
44:37
some caves, you know, processing centre.
44:42
And we've seen all of those things before looking, well,
44:45
we've seen the exact same thing before last week, but just
44:49
looking a lot blander. And yeah, I just, I think like
44:53
there's a, there's a lovely set where they go into The Cave and
44:58
there's the C processing machine and a ramp going up on 2 levels.
45:02
As we've said, the tent set for the laboratory of all the
45:05
equipment coming down from the ceiling is fabulous.
45:08
The processing thing with all the lights down and the smoke
45:11
coming in, it all looks different to how we're used to
45:16
Doctor Who looking. You know, it looks like it looks
45:18
like stylish science fiction sets that would have been in TV
45:23
shows made on film in the American science fiction at the
45:26
time, and not a lot of Doctor Who look like that.
45:30
In no particularly the processing centre, I think
45:33
that's. But Rogers, do you know what I
45:35
mean? Stuff like that.
45:37
The next generation early days. Yeah.
45:40
And that that is, you know, the budget of Next Generation was
45:42
far in access to Doctor Who. Absolutely.
45:45
So kudos knows. But you add in the lighting
45:47
designer who just understands that if you just turn them down,
45:51
there is menace in the shadows. Yeah, this just looks at the.
45:56
Strobe light, like we said, just that more.
46:00
It's a revelation. It's it's a very imaginative
46:03
looking story and it had no right to be because it is very
46:07
stereotypical Dr. settings. Yeah, nice one.
46:13
I'm going to keep the the theme going that I've had in my last
46:16
two and I'm going to pick Nabil Shaban for my third choice.
46:21
Again, it's an absolute powerhouse of performance.
46:25
Sill, the character is such as nasty piece of work, but Nabil's
46:34
performance just utterly elevates that character.
46:39
You know the the laugh. He's just his way of delivered
46:46
names because again, I'll, I'll, you know, stand and say that
46:48
everyone's playing it straight. I don't think anyone's, you
46:51
know, particularly going out and out to make a comedy, but they
46:54
are seizing the comedy in every line that they can and deliver
47:00
it. And he does that.
47:01
But he also has just that utter menace and repulsiveness and
47:05
disgust from Sil that he just utterly brings to the forefront.
47:12
Is is one of the best, you know, Doctor Who villains we've ever
47:16
had, and it's all 100% down to what Nabil Shaban does in that
47:22
performance. Got it.
47:24
Of course I'm going to disagree. I'm going to disagree slightly.
47:26
I do think he's giving a comic turn in this, especially
47:30
compared to Faros, But it is a sublime comic turn.
47:35
I mean, every line is a winner. But yeah, he's brilliant.
47:39
He is. Brilliant he is, and Although
47:43
it's rather nice that he's a Colin Baker era only villain, it
47:48
is a shame that they didn't bring him back because he
47:51
deserves it. He he should should be
47:54
recognised as one of the finest villains to come out of the 8 of
47:58
80s Doctor Who and in Doctor Who in general.
48:01
He could have been running Ice World, couldn't he?
48:03
Or something like that. Or the nostalgia tools.
48:07
Glitz together. Yeah.
48:12
Oh, it's my turn, isn't it? OK, so I'm going to go for the
48:22
mentor who doesn't like the loud noises because even in 1986,
48:26
that made me laugh. You know, it's, it's such a
48:32
small role, but that actor really seizes it and makes it
48:37
something memorable. And it's something we all all
48:42
mentioned before we talked about the story.
48:45
So it's something that goes on. It's, it's a few minutes of
48:52
levity in in Part 4 that desperately needs that, those
48:57
moments of levity. And he does it brilliantly.
49:02
And finally, I am going to say Part 4, but in particular the
49:08
second-half of Part 4, starting from the moment where the Time
49:13
Lords kidnapped the Doctor, because from that point on, this
49:18
is just the best of the Colin Baker era.
49:20
It is absolutely riveting. You don't know where it's going.
49:24
Everything has gone to hell. The companion is killed, the
49:29
Doctor is heartbroken at the end of the story.
49:32
It's proper drama. It's proper decent drama right
49:37
at the heart of Trial of a Time Lord and it's.
49:39
That moment where you want to shout at the screen like, no,
49:42
you can't take him now. You know what's going to happen
49:47
from that moment. I think Philip Martin
49:50
understands how to manipulate a viewer.
49:55
It doesn't surprise me at all that he had success away from
49:57
Doctor Who. What you say, gangsters.
49:59
It doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah.
50:01
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think we can
50:02
sort of all agree that we sort of started, we came into this
50:05
with. So I used to hate it.
50:08
I've sort of swung hot and cold with it.
50:10
Fraser, you've always considered it a bit.
50:12
All right. Yeah.
50:14
We've certainly identified there is a lot of gold in here.
50:17
Yeah. Regardless.
50:19
And I do just want to say, you know, another the 4th excellent
50:24
thing about this. Yeah, because.
50:26
Surprise. I mean, well, I can.
50:29
I'll go with five because I do, you know, I want to big out
50:32
Patrick Reichart again, you know, in a story full of massive
50:40
performances, his being so, you know, restrained that cool
50:45
detached cruiser who only really gets excited about at the end
50:50
when his science is successful. That's what you really get to
50:54
say, excited about what? He's so clinical and detached
50:57
towards periods. So, you know, because he has
51:00
just been a bit suave and a bit swaggery.
51:02
And then when you get to the end and he is just shave head and
51:05
it's grim. But the one that I really want
51:09
to shout out is because we haven't done it enough, I don't
51:12
think in the last four hours or whatever long we've talked about
51:15
this now is Colin Baker because, you know, he is just outstanding
51:20
in this. He really is.
51:22
All of those courtroom scenes is just the best of Colin Baker.
51:29
He's just so magnetic. He is so charged when he is on
51:34
the attack and when he's on the back foot and he's wounded, he
51:37
is just that. He's wounded.
51:39
And you can just see it in his face, in his mannerisms.
51:42
And he has to play a doctor that is now not himself.
51:46
You know, he has to swivel between the Doctor being the
51:49
Doctor that we know and sometimes love and sometimes
51:52
don't because he's a bit difficult in this incarnation.
51:56
But then he also has to play the Doctor that is, you know, well,
51:59
is he the Doctor or is he, is he, you know, a bad guy?
52:05
Now, what's going on? We don't know.
52:06
He doesn't know. And that's the the really
52:08
interesting thing is by his own admission, he's got no idea
52:11
what's going on. He doesn't know why the
52:13
characters behaving like this. So he's just got to do something
52:16
with it. And I really think it's, it's a
52:19
tremendous showing from, from Colin Bate.
52:22
And whether you like his Doctor or not, whether you like the 6th
52:25
Doctor or not, I hope you can all appreciate exactly how much
52:28
Colin Baker was putting in and what a fantastic job he's doing.
52:32
Brilliant is in those courtroom scenes in this story, we see
52:37
that the Doctor's bluster and noise and shouting is all an
52:42
act. And underneath he's incredibly
52:45
insecure and not sure of himself.
52:48
And that's the way he gets through this universe is by by
52:54
roaring at it, because underneath he's not sure of who
52:59
he is. And we we see that laid bare
53:02
here, you do. But there's two tears to it as
53:06
well, isn't it? Because then he gets to play all
53:08
the scenes within the story as well.
53:11
And regardless of what we might think of what's being presented,
53:15
he is terrifying when he chains her up to that rock.
53:18
He really commits to that scene because.
53:21
Colin can play a villain. Really really well.
53:25
But funny, the skedaddle test, all the stuff with the finances
53:28
with Seal as well. You know, Even funnier when he's
53:31
drunk up against the rocks. You slap in his face.
53:34
You see all these different sides to him.
53:36
He's really they, they're sort of learning how to give Colin
53:40
really great material, I think. I can see why you fell in love
53:44
with him. Through this, yeah.
53:46
From from this season because he is all those things.
53:50
I loved him most in Vervoy so. He's.
53:53
Just. We'll get onto that.
53:55
We will. The next commentary.
53:58
Yeah, I haven't really got to ask where we're going next, have
53:59
I? No, the Hyperion 3.
54:02
And let's go into the future and see if Doctor Who improves.
54:09
Viewing figures. Why it's possibly yes.
54:12
Well, fellas, how do we out this sort of thing?
54:15
I mean, I'm not going to ask you to say where you are.
54:17
People know where you are. People know who you are.
54:21
Well, we'll be back soon when the case prosecution is ended.
54:27
That's. Right, Fraser, are you going to
54:28
write us another? Oh do we recap for we?
54:31
Oh. Thank you very much.
54:33
Otherwise we may forget. You'll probably hear them both
54:36
on several strictly come hamsters between now and then.
54:39
Yeah. Fellas, I shall just say until
54:43
next time. Goodbye.
54:45
Goodbye. Cut it there.