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What does it mean to move at the speed of connection? · Kind of a Big Deal

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to kind of a big deal.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kristen Veldin.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Quick note before we jump in.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been enjoying the show, please hit the follow button.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: It helps more awesome folks like you find us, and I have to say, it means the world to me.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm sitting down with Nevada.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: She spent over 20 years helping teens and organizations see themselves more clearly through corporate facilitation, organizational development, Enneagram work, and graphic facilitation.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: She also leads the Midlife Wisdom Circle, a container she built for women navigating the messy, necessary, deeply human work of midlife transition.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the three Ps, performing, productivity, and proving, and why the first half of life almost requires them.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk through the grief that can come with looking back, why a transformative midlife experience doesn't have to mean blowing up your life, and what it actually means to move at the speed of connection with other people and with yourself.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for you to meet her.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Here's Nevada.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, Nevada.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So good to see you.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So good to see you as well.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing really well.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were just sharing before we started recording that when I saw that we got to have our conversation this week, I got so excited because while we've only chatted once, um, it was a few months ago, and I felt like we could have chatted all day.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just excited to get this conversation going again.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nevada and I met through a mutual friend that we were also just talking about, Lindsay, who has been on the show as well.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and promptly again found that we had tons in common and lots to talk about.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think another great testament to how many women are connecting other amazing women these days, where it's just like, hey, you know what?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: You said something, or there's something about what you're talking about that feels aligned with what this woman's digging into, and you guys should meet and connect.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that it wasn't happening in my life before, but there's something about this season of life where it feels like it's happening constantly, and I just love it.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So a huge shout out to Lindsay for the connection and thank you so much for being here.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my pleasure.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like we need to say hi, Lindsay.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Lindsay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were just talking about how awesome you are.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Nevada, I think for you, let's start with the present day.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you've been building your own business for I think over 20 years now, if I have that right.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love for you to just share a little bit about what you're focused on and what's the work that gets you excited.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the business that I've had since the early 2000s, which is kind of crazy to say because in my head I'm still 30 years old, you know.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um can I become the older person in the room, right?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I liked being the younger person in the room that was so I was that for so many years, like the young expert facilitator.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like it changes literally overnight.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: There are times when Brian and I will be watching TV and someone is clearly like 10 years younger than us on TV, and we're like, do we but or do we look like we're 10 years old?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like I'm 10 years older than that person.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or suddenly like we're older than politicians.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like they used to always be older than us, and now it's like, or like I'm the same age as the mayor of San Francisco because he went to high school with some friends of mine.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, oh, I'm the same age as the mayor.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So real.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yes, I've had this business for 20 years.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the core business is called lame change consulting, and I do corporate facilitation, uh, organization development work, a lot of team development work, and then also something called graphic facilitation or graphic recording, which is live visual note-taking.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So people might have seen that.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: People drawing in real time, kind of drawing out a conversation.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a there's an illustration part of that, but it's also really supportive of have helping groups see the conversation they're having to make progress.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of blend all of those things together, and then I also work with the Enneagram with teams and then also individuals and my individual coaching to support team development.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's so, I mean, what in a cool combination, like an ecosystem and body of work that all support each other.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear, I have been a part of um facilitated meetings and conversations where graphic facilitation and illustration was part of it.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember just being absolutely floored the first time I saw it being done because there's something so interesting about what's happening in the mind of the facilitatorslash artist or you know, whoever's actually capturing the imagery.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: What got you into that specifically?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so curious if you saw it and thought it was amazing, or was it something that just kind of evolved throughout your work?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember actually it happened.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: There was a very specific moment where I realized that was a thing and I could do that thing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd been that's the best.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was so good, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can actually, I can think back, I know exactly the moment that I realized organization development was actually a field.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember hearing a conversation and I was sitting in an office.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was working as a sales assistant at this company in like 1998, and somebody came in and was talking about, oh, we're having these consultants come in to interview everybody about how the team is doing.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait a minute, they're in your like they get to talk about how the team is doing.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing at work I'm interested in.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I said, well, what are they?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, they're organization development consultants.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like something went off in my head.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, I can do that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do that.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that happened in 1998.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then a number of years later, after I'd gotten my master's organization development as working change at um a biotech company, a woman was in a room, and now I know that this was Emily Shepherd, who's an amazing graphic recorder and now a friend.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: She was in this room, and the whole all the walls of the room were papered.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she was having people come in and ask them questions around some project and what they wanted to see in this project, and she was illustrating what they were saying on the walls of this room.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I had that same moment of like, what?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that and that led me down the path of taking some foundational classes, and that was 21 years ago, and I remember that because my daughter was a baby and she's 21.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and really just I did that 10,000 hours thing that Malcolm Gladwell talks about.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I got obsessed, spent a lot of time getting good at it, and I just knew it was like it was like the somatic response of like, yeah, that's so interesting.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but in the network for 20 years, which is crazy.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you think?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so much there.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: A part of me was thinking about we were chatting earlier about how I have a 10 and a seven-year-old, and find myself bucking against, even though I still do this to them, even though I shouldn't, the like, what do you want to be when you grow up, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's such a like natural thing that you do at that age of what and I think what we're trying to ask them is like what's interesting to you, and what are you, you know, what are you seeing that gets you excited and what are the big dreams?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like they haven't even seen, you know, what's out there yet, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because I think we can kind of narrow things down so early on, just based on what you have seen as a possibility, and to know that you know, we can still witness things later on in life and go, oh, wait a second, I didn't even know that was an option.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no one told me that you don't you can't study that, or maybe you can, but it's not something that most folks would have even been aware of at a younger age, even going into like college, let's say, age.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always like kind of tapped into that side of yourself?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're saying you had a spark and noticing something and saying, Oh, I want to follow that a little bit.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Was that always kind of natural to you to see something and know that you felt drawn to it and then actually follow up on that interest?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think you know, so many times we were talking earlier too about how fast life moves and how quickly things are going.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it can almost be tricky to to notice that first of all, and then actually create the space to do something about it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that question so much because it ties in actually to this work I'm doing with my midlife circle and this sort of women's circle that I lead.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because part of this is I think this tuning into yourself and your body's wisdom, you can call it your intuition or your body's knowing about kind of what's what your life is calling you towards, is kind of the thing that I've always um had some kind of connection to, even as a young person.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think kind of lose it or we get really busy and we tune it out, like you're saying, and then we sometimes have to come back to learning what that feels like again or how to notice it in ourselves because it is kind of like a soul response, it's like a body soul response, however you want to think about it, and you know, in your own um in your own language, but there's like that's to me the spark of purpose.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when everybody's looking for purpose, and let me like do a purpose workshop and find the right words, I'm like, yeah, okay, okay, great.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: That helps you.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And also, it's actually tuning into your body about that spark and being able to listen to that spark.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's what are you curious about?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: What does your body respond to?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: What is that that heck yes, that full body yes that you have?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: All of those are pointing towards purpose.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's been many moments in my life where I've had those responses.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: A couple that we've talked about.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: There were things when I was younger that were just like, and then I happen to have that constitution that's a little bit like I have a lot of self-efficacy to go after stuff.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe a little bit too single-mindedly, or you know, yes, to then actually like be like, I I know I can do it, and let's get on board and get it done.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's so that's so cool.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I think hearing that a lot too recently with women I either work with or chat with in this context of the wanting to kind of almost get to know themselves again.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt that so deeply over the last three years in my own kind of latest evolution, and almost kind of being surprised every once in a while, like, oh, oh my God, like I forgot about that thing over there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or that was something that was so interesting to me.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if I'm still excited by it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And letting ourselves, giving ourselves permission to actually spend a bit of time there, you know, it can feel hard, right?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because what we were talking about earlier too, like a lot of sandwich generation, people that are raising kids and caring for, you know, aging parents and work and and and so to like give ourselves that moment can be, you know, it can be tricky.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if you're finding with the women in your circle, is there something about being in community with each other too that's helping them kind of give themselves that permission and hearing other people talk through some of what they're looking at?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: The circle part of it I think is so important.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, before I answer that though, I am curious, what is something you've remembered you like or discovered now you like or that you weren't aware of?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: The question back on me, rude.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: No kidding, rude.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I think one thing that is not surprising to literally anyone else in my life is how drawn I am to anything ethereal or woo or you know, anything related to other planes and existence and you know, thinking more deeply about what it means to like be in this present moment today.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I would, you know, give a lot of disclaimers before, like, it's gonna sound really woo, you know, or and my husband at some point was like, boo, like you've you've always been like, like, why are you just now making it sound like this is something that you are somehow interested in?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is I'm like, I think it's just because I'm more conscious of it now and I'm seeking it out more intentionally versus just kind of being an observer of it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's one.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the other part is I forgot how much I love this.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is gonna sound really silly, but like just creation in general.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I think we've talked about this.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was an art major and I loved that level of getting my hands dirty and creativity and building things.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And while my career has had some version of that in involved throughout the years, the like the sitting down to write, the you know, doing this podcast, all of those things have now become a new creative outlet for me that yeah, I I just I totally I kind of had forgotten about or let laid dormant, I think, for a long time.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so beautiful.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I can really relate to that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's like, you know, because I do a lot of work around midlife, I'm sort of using that frame of kind of first half of life, second half of life.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: But there is sort of that part where, you know, the first half of life is often about performing productivity and um there's another P.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: What did I want to say?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like proving.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a proving part, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's sort of like, and I think it's really natural that we go out in that first part of life and it's like, okay, let me I have to go prove that I can do it in this, in this system, in this context that I was born into.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just go prove that I can make it, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can forget about this actually deep part of our internal life that is a calling and that's probably always been there.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I did the same thing where I sort of over-indexed on those three P's in like until my early 40s.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was like this wake-up call in my 40s, like, oh, that is not that is not gonna be enough.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is not it.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: That is not hitting the mark of like who I actually am as a human.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so in comes that midlife transition, the waking up to kind of who we really are, starting to claim our inner, our actually inner wisdom, who we are as women, not just as productivity machines in this system that we're in.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then refinding kind of our our inner woo.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Which is not even woo, right?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's actually the real stuff.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the actual it's I know.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm reading.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Have you read um Imagine That?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna, oh, it's a beautiful book.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm reading it right now, and I'm gonna I'm gonna totally screw up her name, so I'm not gonna even try.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something similar to this idea that we think of imagination sometimes as this kind of frivolous like thing on the side, but ultimately it's like the foundation of human existence and how you know creation happens and how we can see our way out of really challenging, difficult times in life.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and I really love what you just said around how natural it is to be in those three Ps for a season of life because I sense, and I think I felt this myself for a while, and I had to really let this be okay, that there was almost a level of regret for a minute when I started to look back and go, wait a second, what was I doing that whole time?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why, why, why?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I really appreciate that you're saying out loud that it doesn't have to be that that was quote unquote bad or a mistake or you know, that we've lost ourselves forever.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's sometimes that is a necessary piece in order to get us to the place that we want to be in order to start asking some more intense questions of ourselves.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that I've heard anybody say it like that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for anybody listening that's maybe in that moment and going, gosh, like maybe kicking themselves a little bit, like why did I do that?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also what society has asked of us for a long time.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it also doesn't mean that we're throwing the baby out with bath water and saying, oh, all of that crap didn't matter.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, a lot of that stuff you get to still carry forward with you.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that now we get to be a little bit more intentional about what pieces of it that we still want to carry and maybe what isn't serving us any longer.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I want to underline something you said around the regret.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there are like when I'm working in my own life and then also in working with women in midlife, there is some grief that comes up, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like there can be grief about the parenting that we might have done when we were still in that real proving performance productivity part of life, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a I'm ho I think I'm a very different parent now to my kids than I was then.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I have grief about you know where my focus of attention was, even if I actually had built a business that gave me a good amount of time with them.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of my focus and attention was on my own success.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and not listening in the same way that I have the capacity to do now, you know.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um take a little bit of solace in the fact that one of my teachers said the best work you can do for your children is to do your own inner work.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then also to know that you can always repair, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like the relationship is constantly evolving.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I have so much more intimacy now in my relationship with my kids.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, they're now young adults, but it's like um we have a chance to evolve that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm so I'm I'm grateful that I've that that that's possible, if that makes sense.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a grief about how it was, and also a recognition, a com a recognition and a compassion that we can always change those relationships with our children and others in our lives.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder how much um you know, you mentioned the Enneagram, and you know, was that has that always been part of your work or is that something that you have kind of come to as you've started to peel back some of the layers even for yourself?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see that playing specifically in this moment, right, for for the women that you're working with at this kind of midlife season?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love the Enneagram.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually read a I picked up an Enneagram book when I was 13 years old.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was sitting, I remember it really clearly, because I used to go to this place called Tasahara, which is a anyway, it's a part of the Zen Center that I grew up in.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I would go there in the summers and I remember being at the pool and there was this Helen Palmer book around the Enneagram.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I picked it up and I'm reading through the nine types.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I knew right away that I was a type three even at 13.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't want to be a three, I wanted to be a type seven, which is the always the thing.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody wants their number.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I have literally never met anyone that was like, except for an eight.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes a lot of eights are like, yeah, right up an eight.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to my eights, by the way.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Many of my besties are eights, so you know I love you.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: We thank you for your we thank you for your intense work.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I so and it's like, and I, you know, for those that don't know the Enneagram, the three is the goal-oriented achiever, this very sort of goal-oriented, success-driven person, and then the seven is this enthusiastic, visionary, spontaneous, fun, positive, optimistic.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a part of me that's a seven, but no, my core type is a three.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't like it, so I put it, I put that book down and didn't look at it again until um until I was 40.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's so funny.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then it came back to me, and it kind of a couple people were in my life were mentioning it, and I did a typing session with a friend, and for some reason, the timing of it, because it kind of it was reintroduced to me right at the midst of my own midlife transition in my early 40s, which is a really normal time if anybody's feeling that that soul rumble to to live differently and to and to to change.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really um common um timing around 42, 43.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's introduced introduced to me then and it was like, oh my lord, it was like seeing the whole like adaptive strategies, all the things that I the game that I'd been playing was laid out to me and I could see it really, really clearly.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, and also to realize that type three has a huge heart, and we just never slow down to move into it and allow it and allow us to recognize that we're we have feelings, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like feelings aren't aerodynamic is what some three sort of how they experience it, but to realize like I'm actually I am actually really emotional, and I was craving for more authenticity in my life, which is actually the what the three is longing for, but kind of works really hard and overworks for it to to kind of achieve things, but really what I was what I'm um always was longing for was authenticity with myself and with other people.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the Enneagram was like, look here, lady, and had a and had a map for how to get there.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and ever since then it was like one of those, it was again that kind of soul clarity about this is something that I'm supposed to do deep study in.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, about it's been about 10 years, I guess, in really deep study of that, and both the spiritual side of the Enneagram and also sort of more personality.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Type, um, more of the superficial side is uh is great for in a work context, right?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then and there's a whole spiritual side of the Enneagram.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we bring both in the midlife um circles that I lead, mostly thinking about like what's to your point about like what's no longer serving you, yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: What are the patterns, the adaptive strategies that are no longer serving you, and what might be the North Star that you can tune into at midlife to help you move beyond those adaptive strategies?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: I do you find, I'm so curious.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've heard folks have a perspective or an opinion on this.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder, especially at this moment that we're talking about for women, where the three Ps maybe start to fade a little bit, or we're maybe more aware of them.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I took the Enneagram six years ago for the first time, six, seven years ago, I had one number.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there was always something about it that I was like, like, yeah, ish, but like I don't know that that like felt and it wasn't even like I was bucking against it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was more like, I don't know, this doesn't feel a hundred percent.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I took it again more recently, and it had shifted.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't like a wildly different one, but it was I'm also now not now a three, but that resonated way more for me.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if can not can people change, that's not the question, but can based on the season of life that you're in, can that affect right, like how you're actually answering the questions and how it might be interpreted and how you then are kind of being a mirror back to yourself?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can that like should people take it more than once depending on the season that they're in, you know, or is it kind of once you're that number, that's that's your number?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, look, there's there's a couple questions in there that are interesting.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: One is like, what is personality?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Does it change, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think the general thinking is that that your personality doesn't change over your lifetime.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, we can change and grow vertically in our type, we can be healthier versions of our type, but essentially if we're if we're born in the type three or that um there's an early temperament that we're born with, and then there's some early attachment stuff that happens and our type settles in pretty pretty early, that our core type doesn't change.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's the the most common thinking about it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And our self-awareness, of course, expands as we get older, so maybe we can answer those questions with more clarity about our underlying patterns and how we how we act as we get a little bit older.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, like by the time you're in your, you know, there are teen assessments for Enneagram type, but by the time you're in your early 20s and your ego is pretty solid, yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, you should be able to answer those um with a good amount of clarity if you have a good assessment, right?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're working with a good coach.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the other, I think, good point is that so many of these things we do individually, silos on our own, and then we're left to read the thing, right?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Different when you have somebody that's actually walking you through.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I did strength binders for the first time a couple years ago through a facilitated guide.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean the conversation was wildly different than had it just been me staring at these 10 words that, you know, didn't really mean anything to me at the time.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what you're getting at is really important that that work and doing it with somebody that's actually as well versed in the work as you are, or somebody else that's doing a different kind of assessment.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that having that guide makes a massive difference in the interpretation of it and kind of how you internalize it versus, you know, it can be tricky to read about yourself in that way, too.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's like sometimes say there's you know you're on the right type when you have that ick factor, that kind of ick response.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh, that doesn't feel good.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it doesn't feel good.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then you know you're kind of in the right territory.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to rewind time and thinking back to, you know, 20 years ago, I know it's not like it was yesterday, but can you share a little bit about going from having a more traditional career and work that you were doing then and maybe what the impetus was or what the inspiration was for you to branch out on your own.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, quick pause before we get back into it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to conversations like this one and something keeps nudging you, like I know I'm at some kind of turning point, I just can't quite see it clearly yet.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually exactly what I do.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I work with women leaders who are in the middle of something: a career shift, a business that's ready to evolve, a moment where what got you here just isn't cutting it anymore.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes what you need most isn't a whole program or a big engagement.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just need a few hours with someone who can help you see what you're too close to see yourself.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the clarity session.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a focused, one-on-one conversation where we dig into where you are, where you want to go, and what's actually in the way.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You walk away with real direction, not a list of homework, but genuine clarity on your next move.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: If that sounds like what you need right now, I'd love to talk.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: You can find all the details at beldenstrategies.com slash clarity.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, the inspiration, if I think back on it, what was really going on was so I was um contract, I was sort of contracting at this biotech firm after I got my uh master's degree.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when I heard about the number of days you got a vacation as a full-time employee, I just had that response in my body, is like, how does anyone do that?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I had spent um in my younger life, like uh at that point, you know, four or five years living in Europe, where I'd had jobs and worked in different things, and seen kind of the European lifestyle and how much vacation they get off and what a normal day looks like.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that really informed my decision about not taking a full-time job at that at that biotech company was like I just couldn't imagine doing that.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I because I and I also saw there was a different way, yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then probably that sort of confidence in myself that, like, oh, I think I can do it the other way too.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is sort of the the high side of type three, it's like, oh, I can do that, you know, I can make totally.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's almost delusional sometimes, totally.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I got that, I got that, no problem, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right, and then the the the downside of the three is you kind of think you can do anything, and so you start doing any like all these things that actually aren't totally aligned.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, but there is a high side, and that was I think that was um that was part of it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like I knew I also I really was clear about wanting a family, and I was looking around me at what some of the moms were doing that had kids that were working the you know, the 60-hour week, and I with so little vacation, I thought just don't think that that's for me, and I think I can do it the other way.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the impetus, actually.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you decided that, I mean, was it like just so curious when you were talking about the I'll do all the things and maybe it's not totally aligned?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: What did it take you a little bit of time to sift through what the focus was gonna be when you decided that you were gonna, you know, branch out on your own?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I had a really beautiful um kind of nest to start the business.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a wonderful kind of woman manager that I was working with as when I was contracting that um kind of saw and encouraged my facilitation skills.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like I was working for her, I was working for and with her in this one department, which was the kind of commercial training side of things, and we were doing sort of change work, and then people around the rest of the organization were asking me to come and start facilitating things for them.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of had this nice, like cozy nest of kind of having internal clients when I was a contractor.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, in some ways, I didn't make the decision to have the own business that almost like started and then just grew from there.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like I woke up one day and was like, let me have my own business and do it on my own.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, this is actually what's emerging and makes a lot of sense.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized how much I liked and was good at jumping into new teams, figuring out what was going on with them, talking to them, listening, bringing them together to figure out what was next, help them connect and do their work better together.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really how it started.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I just evolved and I started getting clients outside that organization, and then people would refer me, and then the kind of the referral engine built up, and that's that's how the business started, really.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: You said something earlier that put a little bit of a highlighter on in my mind.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Did you say you grew up in a Zen institute?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you said?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess I just kind of dropped that in there, didn't you?
• 31:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I don't want to, I don't want to make something up, but I do want to hear about that.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: If that is, as I was saying it was like, am I am I saying this right now?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I am.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I so you know, it's sort of in it's an interesting part of my story, actually.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: If we think around kind of the if when I look back on the whole arc and actually talking about like where you start and then where you end up.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was born and raised in a Zen temple, in a Zen Buddhist temple in San Francisco called the San Francisco Zen Center.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: My parents met there, and this was you know in the heart of San Francisco, so we lived there, and you know, I went to school at a uh um also kind of an alternative school called the Wall Waldorf School or School or a Steiner School.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a pretty alternative upbringing that was creative, um, you know, pretty close to the era of the hippie in San Francisco.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: In a in a city that was, you know, super urban and vibrant and um.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have a meditation practice of my own until I was in my 40s.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how interesting.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was like, yeah, great, that's nice.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is cool, fine, these people are doing their thing, and I can go out and prove that I can make my way.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when someone asked me when I was in elementary school what I wanted to be when I grew up.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said, He said, I want I said, I want to be a yuppie.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Plenty of plenty of room for that, and given the other yeah, dynamics of the city.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it just makes me laugh because it's like so much of that three.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: The three looks around and says, Okay, what does success look like here?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does it take to be successful?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And let me do that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And but then of course, and that was kind of putting my eye on the larger, uh, on the larger culture, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: But always this piece was behind me of like uh knowing that that sense of like a a good life or um has some amount of contemplation and mindfulness and inner work and um and solitude.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: It just took me, it just took me 40 years to come back to that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Did you um did that at all, you know, reflecting on your time there, did that at all inform the way you were raising your own kids in the education system?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like what was your did that impact at all the way you thought about what their education was going to look like at a young age?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, it's I think about it, it's like it's one of the it's not like a regret, but I did want them to go to public school because I wanted them to have that diversity that exists in San Francisco in a public school system.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the public school system in San Francisco doesn't look anything like, you know, an artistic, right, mindful practice.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean there's trade-offs that um uh from the choices we made.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And do I think that they that I was able to raise them with the kind of spiritual foundation that I just was granted by having been raised in a Buddhist environment?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, my husband's also not spiritual particularly, so um, and we weren't going to church, and so I didn't have a spiritual community that I could integrate them into when they were young.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's I feel like that was a bit of a miss, honestly.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to try I trust that they, you know, things came through me in terms of how I live my life and what we talk about.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like they'll come back to they'll be able to find that right now.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of that going on for them, but they're 19 and 21.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I was gonna say they're still so young.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it can be right, my husband grew up um in a church setting and three brothers with four boys, and none of them uh claim that as you know how they identify today, right?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you are even same for you, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like even though you were in that growing up, it took you, like you were saying, till later in life to find your way, to find your path to how it resonated for you.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it's like even if we're raised in these spaces, it doesn't mean that that's gonna be what we take on for ourselves, right?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think more importantly, to what you're saying is how you are expressing yourself in the world.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what they notice, right?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can put so much emphasis on where they go and all the rest, but ultimately it's what's the community they're part of?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: How are we acting?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: How am I not being an asshole on the road every day to every driver?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like my biggest lesson that I it will be the thing.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe one day I will reach enlightenment when I learn how to get in my car and not become a total asshole.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have to, I have to laugh because it's it cannot be a coincidence that you're bringing up the driving and being an asshole in the car.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I the reason I knew that something had to change my life in my early 40s was because I was a raving maniac in the car.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's where all of the stress comes out.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like isn't that funny?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really taking that as like, and there were a couple of moments where I scared my kids.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, okay, yeah.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, not in terms of like how angry I got.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Then I scared myself, and I was like, what is going on?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is not okay, you know.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, that was um, it was like, if I'm getting this angry about nothing, yeah, and okay, granted, there's probably some paramenopause going on there, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: But so like that's that's my excuse.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome to it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that was my wake-up call.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, something has to change, lady.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then I did, I started doing a lot of bumping around in the dark, looking for anything and everything that would start to create some clarity for me.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I did anything from I made a list at one point of all the different like therapeutic modalities that I went through and like network spinal care with the chiropractic, which is like chiropractic energy work, breath work, um, meditation therapy, somatic therapy, psychedelics, crystal healing, like this retreat, that retreat.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just anything and everything that I thought would unlock something.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a real, it was a real searching um for like what's going on, how can I fix it?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was very discombobulating and disorienting.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And part of, you know, part of putting that the midlife wisdom circle um together then um around the time I turned 50 was was in response to that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Was like, okay, how can I create a container that normalizes that experience?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Shows people kind of the map of the midlife transition, to know that it's totally normal to go through some of that stuff and also start speaking to some of the practices that we can lean into in liminality, like when we're sort of we've let the younger part of ourselves go, like it's time to let that go.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're not yet this sort of next version.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what can we do in that middle, that middle space, in that liminal space to find some orientation to help us find our way through?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually why the midlife wisdom circle came to be was going through that like really crazy few years in my 40s.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, isn't it wild how collectively that is such a truth and we are all left to our own devices to try and scramble our way through the dark, right?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think about you know, driving thing, you know, we can joke about it, but truly, I mean, I since I remember, you know, not post-COVID, but you know, into COVID when people started driving again.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there was literally what felt like to me, it was like the before and the after of what it meant to get in your car.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it truly felt like everybody's collective rage was coming out on the road.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, I just remember being totally shocked one of the first times I actually had to drive somewhere a bit further.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what is going on?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like people, you know, all of our nervous systems are shot.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, we all just went through a massive trauma that nobody has actually said, let's all collectively heal from this.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just go back to like the the day-to-day or back to what was quote unquote normal.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when we haven't had any ability to heal from that, and then just all try to go back into the craziness of it.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's just kind of a perfect picture of just generally speaking what it means to go through midlife at times.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're just searching for what the heck is going on.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you're bringing people together in community in that way is so beautiful because I do think that then allows us to know that we're not alone and not crazy, so to speak.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just posted something on Instagram, uh, Tempest, Terry Tempest Williams.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know her work?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know her work prior to coming across this clip, but she talks about someone asks her, the interviewer asks her, what do you feel like you still need to prove to people?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she says something about, I'm not crazy and I'm just alive.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we as women can tend to question a lot of ourselves, are we too much?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are we doing too much of this, too much of that?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ultimately it's just that no, we're all just trying to do our best in a time that feels particularly challenging, especially amidst all of the things that are going on in our world and all around us.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it also brought me back to something you said before we started recording, which was moving at the speed of connection.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the most beautiful thing I've heard.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you can give us more background there, but I think it all kind of comes back to that, right?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: That we're all moving so fast that it can be so difficult to even see outside of that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so to have these moments where we get to sit and be a bit more intentional and say, I'm gonna be in space with you, and we're gonna all hold that open for each other so that we don't feel totally crazy.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: That was a lot about a lot.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: But all of those things in my mind are in one kind of space in some of what you're doing.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if you are seeing the women that are coming into this circle, are they able to express how then they kind of enter their world differently, right?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wonder for them just on the like day-to-day.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we can look at these things as, oh, my life changed, and I totally, you know, I jumped ship and I did this wildly different thing.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think actually the subtleness of it sometimes is where the power is, just in the I had a little bit more patience for the fact that my kid was kind of a dick this morning.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff like that.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are you hearing from the women as they kind of navigate some of that?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's so many nice threads to pick up there.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I just threw so much at you at one.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that was great.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, I love it.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe I'll just what strikes me as maybe important to name is that that point about you know, what's it like to move at the speed of connection.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to recognize that that's a quote that I um reference a lot from an indigenous teacher and elder named Alarian Makuliev when I heard it on his he's I think I've heard him say it a number of times, but I take that to mean both moving at the speed of connection with other people, which is kind of what you're pointing to, but also moving at the speed of connection with ourselves.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I notice in that midlife wisdom circle is part of the part of the magic of it is that women have actually just given themselves time of that hour a week for twelve weeks or nine weeks over twelve over um nine sessions over twelve weeks to to slow down.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that's actually half the battle is that women have given themselves that time to actually sit with themselves and then have that mirrored with other women, is then the other piece of that.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, we're bringing content about the map of midlife and the three phases of change that we all need to that are helpful to just keep in mind as a map of separation, liminality, integration.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like at any given time, we're probably in some transitional phase where we're either in the process of separation, right?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: All these women out there now who are doing dropping off their kids at college, right?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: When you see this videos, it's like that's a huge milestone around separation, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't tend to honor that, right?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or we're in this messy middle, or we're integrating something that we picked up and it might feel different.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like slowing down to be able to connect with yourself, your body, kind of your inner life is half the battle at midlife, really, you know.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like part of my anger in the car was like, I didn't have any time to be with myself.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know who I was in a way.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I knew this outer, the outer persona, but I didn't know my my inner world very well.
• 45:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what all that searching was really about.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of women are looking to get in touch with that, not at an intellectual level, right?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: But at a at an at a somatic level, at a heart level, right?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like people sometimes say the hardest journey you'll ever make is from your head down to your heart.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's part of the work of midlife, especially for a three.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I wonder it feels so it's always important and it's always been timely, but given the conversations nowadays about how the workforce is going to change so dramatically and so rapidly, you know, and at at a speed in which we can't even fathom, right?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so much of what I'm interested in right now is the folks that are saying we're not necessarily headed for an economic crisis, but a crisis of identity, because so many of us have spent so many years tying our worth to our output, to our title, to the productivity.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: And again, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's okay, but what's under that?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that if things change or shift, or those of us that have had the rug pulled out from under us, right?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Mine happened three years ago.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that I would have asked myself those questions had that not been forced upon me.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious about that opportunity for people at this season of life who have spent so many years building a great career or, you know, being the top salesperson or, you know, being all the things that we can equate to our value.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do we then also say the yes and so that if things shift or change in front of our eyes, we're more, I don't know, prepared is the right word, because I don't know that we can ever be prepared for cultural shifts that we're seeing, but prepared in our heart to your point, and and getting a little bit more out of our head and being centered from a place of, okay, I can, I got this because I know myself well enough to know I can navigate or shift or pull that lever over here in order to kind of move forward through that.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what comes up for me as you name that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in my own experience, what was so important?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this the languages might feel different for different people, right?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's different, it's sort of all pointing to the same thing.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, this we think about there's um, if you think there's sort of a horizontal access about these are all things I'm doing and I need to move forward in my life, and there's like 3D reality, and I have a job and I have kids and all that kind of stuff, right?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's like a vertical access, which is our connection to ourselves and the divine, um, your own spirituality.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like if we, you know, if we're missing that vertical access, then the when that horizontal access goes wonky, yeah, it it's very it's even more destabilizing, right?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what are you connected to beyond your work life?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, vocation is so important, right?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love, I love to work in the sense of like I'm I'm really passionate about having a vocation and my work is going to express in different ways over my lifetime, right?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: But if I didn't have this vertical orientation to connection to myself and some sense of a connection to something larger, yeah, then I would feel very um unmoored.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I see that happening for a lot of people.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any suggestions or recommendations for maybe I I can forget sometimes that now since I started down my own journey, you know, a little while ago, that those practices that I now have or rituals I now have, or these are things I didn't have even just a few years ago.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how quickly it can it can shift and change.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I forget that, you know, some folks might be just starting out with these questions for themselves, or might be feeling a bit of trepidation around, well, if I allow myself that, is that gonna like blow everything up?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, there can be all these things that get in the way of actually maybe integrating some of those questions or practices into your life if if someone's thinking about that or just starting to kind of dance with it a little bit or play around the edges, is there like an easy or um I don't know, like non-intimidating way that you might suggest that folks kind of start?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to I wanna give you some of those simple tips and also speak to something that like a big, a big midlife transition doesn't mean you have to blow your life up.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to like normalize that.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all we hear a lot of stories about like I mean, and I have friends that did this, you know, they went from being ahead of people for a fintech company, and now they lead ayahuasca trips to the Amazon and Brazil.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Which can be cool, but it doesn't have to be necessary.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Super cool.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Super cool.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for doing that work.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And also that person is also not married and doesn't have children, right?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, and I would say we can have a transformative experience at midlife where actually on the outside everything looks the same.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still married to the same man, I've been married for 24 years.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have two children, we live in the same house, I live in the same city, and yet my experience of my life is completely different because of the work that's happened.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to normalize that.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like big change, internal change, does not mean losing the things you've built in your life that are important.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and simple practices.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: And look, people have, and I actually think there's an Enneagram difference in some of these things, but there's just um starting to do a walk in nature without listening to a podcast, without listening to music, just you quietly in nature is a beautiful way to start.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: It starts to, you know, there's like the grounding piece that happens, there's the silence, there's letting noticing what thoughts you come up, and there's actually just that, you know, that magic of being around trees.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now I live in the middle of San Francisco, it's not the easiest.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: If I go out my door, it's like, okay, I'm I'm like stepping over some stuff that's not so nice, right?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wish I had easier access.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, that's not always possible.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, daily meditation, and that can be a guided meditation with something from like insight timer.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: It can also be quiet meditation.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can use your binaural beats, you know, if you like that for music.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those are some easy ways.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Journaling is, I think a lot of people do that, and it's wonderful, and it's um it gives you some time to do your more or morning pages, right?
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Where you're just sort of um writing for three minutes about whatever comes out.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, those are really simple ways to start.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if I think, you know, when we work in the midlife wisdom circle, it can be really beautiful to work with different kinds of cards, like archetype cards or tarot cards, or if you like that, to pull a card and see what comes up for you.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: How does that help you make meaning of what's going on in your life?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really simple things to start to bring awareness to kind of that that inner life.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: So those are I love the reminder that it doesn't have to look a certain way, that everybody has their own, you know, version of that with what their capabilities are, what their what their interests are.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, as a three can tend to want to do all of them.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm gonna do all of them, I'm gonna do them all, and then I'm gonna feel like crap if I don't do all of them every day, and then it's like, no, no.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: It can also depend on the week, right?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do Julia Cameron when you were mentioning Morning Cages, I love her work and I love I started taking silent walks because of her.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it is, it is, I have to say, for those of us that are used to being quote unquote on all the time or have some sort of input or want to be thinking or distracted or whatever, it can it it sounds so silly, maybe, that a 20-minute silent walk can be like so disorienting at first.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually quite hard for me.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: I it sounds ridiculous when I say that, but ultimately it was like, I what do I do with my hands?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what am I?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so I was so used to having some kind of input at all times.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I've actually found that in doing that practice more often, it makes me not want to have something on all the time.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I used to in the shower, listen to a podcast, you know, I'm getting ready.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like always, always information, information, information.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I now find myself driving silently in the car or like choosing not to turn something on as I've become more comfortable with it.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really interesting thing to notice where you go, oh, now all that noise feels noisy.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not that there's anything, all of that stuff is great and beautiful and content's amazing, but it's I don't need it on, I don't need the chatter in my mind all the time, the way I used to crave it.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'll be curious if anybody decides to give it a go.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, be okay with it being uncomfortable too in the beginning.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's okay.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to love it at first, and you might not love it ever, but give it a chance and see how it evolves.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Cause sometimes you might surprise yourself with how it affects all the other kind of moments in your life as well.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yes, I love that reminder.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um, so I sometimes when I'm coaching people and we're working on some kind of practice around this, and they're talking about how hard meditation is for them.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Look, here's the secret that no one tells you about meditation is that actually if you can work through that that part where it feels difficult, it actually um it feels so good at certain point when you meditate that it's like coming home.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like you have to kind of get over that hump of the challenging part to feel like um it feels like a the way I try to describe it is like it's like and not every set not every time you're gonna meditate is like this, but there's this possibility, the sense of coming home, of total fullness in yourself, of like remembering what life is about.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's actually on the other side of that struggle if you can stick with it.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's so beautiful.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd love to end with, and all of this conversation kind of leads to this question.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's the question I ask everyone around legacy, because I think, right, when we're sometimes when we think of that word, we think of that heavy thing that we're, you know, leaving behind, or you know, the big scary thing in the sky of, you know, what what is my life's purpose and what am I what am I leaving?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to think of it a bit differently and just around the lightness of what it can be and what we're trying to build towards, you know, every day and how we're showing up in our daily, day, daily life.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would just love to know for you, Nevada, what does building a legacy mean to you?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got kind of goosebumps when you asked me because it's like I think at the deepest level, if I think about what all the work I'm doing contributes to, it's something about supporting this feminine leadership revolution that's happening, that's awakening on the planet.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, and I have a very little peace in that, right?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: But if I can bring a little bit more of the feminine, and by that I mean the inclusion, the looking at wholeness, the relationality.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I can bring that into the teams I'm working with, great, I'm contributing a drop in the ocean.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm working with the midlife wisdom group and they're waking up to their own power about their own wisdom in midlife, I'm adding a drop in the bucket, right?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if I'm um working with a foster youth and helping them really see the potential and empower them to put their voice out there in the world about what they need and be an advocate for themselves, that's being a drop in the ocean.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's how I think of like the broader purpose.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as a three, the thing is like you don't have to do it all by yourself.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not all on you, right?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can be part of a larger mission.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I need to go out and leave this big thing.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that's a that's a false belief that I as a three can hold that I have to do it all.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can be one of the stars in the sky, I can be a drop in the bucket, and so that's how I've been thinking and holding this idea of generativity or legacy.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much because I think, yes, we not only as a three, but just again, like what we are shown every day is that you have to be the person, right?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in social media and you know, the the way our platforms showcase work or talent or content, it's always, you know, it's it's it highlights a few.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is there's so many incredible people doing so much incredible work, and the ocean can't be the ocean without all of those drops there.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so the reminder that your work is impactful in that way and the ripple that is created just from the effect on that group that you have close to you, that's what's so beautiful to me, too, right?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's yes, you might be calling it a drop, but that drop spreads and continues to spread and continues to spread because in the women that are doing that work now or the teams that are doing that work now, what does that mean generationally?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean for you know the folks that get to be in their orbit and thinking about those things that you'll never even get to see necessarily, right?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: But how beautiful to picture that.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um I just really appreciate your willingness to share not only openly about your own journey, but the wisdom that you've collected along the way, because I know that it's so helpful for others to get to hear and you know, maybe consider a thing or two that you're sharing here.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: So just thank you for your openness and your generosity and your willingness to share.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great to be with you.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I'll see you soon.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, take care.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.