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How do you challenge a will? · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you?
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  Speaker 2: I am great? Thank you. What do you have for
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  Speaker 2: us this week?
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  Speaker 1: A couple of things.
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  Speaker 4: One, we have a Tennessee Appellate Court case basically how
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  Speaker 4: will contests work and how to avoid them and understanding
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  Speaker 4: all that nonsense. And folks, there's so much that goes
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  Speaker 4: into these will contests, and you know, is it undue influence?
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  Speaker 3: Is it?
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  Speaker 4: Is it a lack of capacity?
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  Speaker 3: Folks.
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  Speaker 4: We're going to just explain that to you and then
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  Speaker 4: give you some lots of tips on what happens, and
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  Speaker 4: a couple of real life stories built in there as
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  Speaker 4: well to sort of bring that point home and of
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  Speaker 4: course do your planning right. And then lastly, you know,
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: this guide this month is and I get it, folks,
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  Speaker 4: it's a little complicated, it's heavy lifting.
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  Speaker 3: It's good stuff, though it's new.
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  Speaker 4: And so I've got a real life story that's really
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  Speaker 4: going to help us understand a fact pattern about this
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  Speaker 4: client who wants to do both medicaid and estate tax
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  Speaker 4: planning at the same time. But they each have a
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  Speaker 4: seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars IRA among other assets,
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  Speaker 4: making a total estate of three million dollars, and so
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  Speaker 4: obviously they have all kinds of issues from the state taxes,
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  Speaker 4: to income tax issues with iras to nursing home issues.
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  Speaker 4: And we're going to walk you through how Now it
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  Speaker 4: brings me to the guide how naming your estate the
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  Speaker 4: IR beneficiary might be the right way to go. That's
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  Speaker 4: really what the guide is all about, folks. And so
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: it is the end of the month. It's the last
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: chance to get it, so call and get it. Learn
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: how you can do both estate tax planning and nursing
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  Speaker 4: home planning at the same time. But more importantly, take
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  Speaker 4: and protect an IRA somewhat in advance. And remember that's
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  Speaker 4: the new thing. You could never really protect an asset
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  Speaker 4: in advance, an IRA in advance because of the income
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  Speaker 4: tax hit on the transfer. This kind of takes care
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  Speaker 4: of all of those things. So most people have an IRA.
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  Speaker 4: Learn how it fits in your estate plan. Get the
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: guide eight six six eight four eight five six nine
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  Speaker 4: to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Again the
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  Speaker 4: end of the month, folks, so call and get it
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  Speaker 4: eight six six eight four eight five six nine to
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  Speaker 4: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
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  Speaker 2: You can't believe it's the end of another month. I
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  Speaker 2: just said that, like yesterday.
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  Speaker 4: No I know, No I saw Christmas lights up so
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  Speaker 4: him well in the stores. It's disgusting. It's too early,
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  Speaker 4: right next to the pumpkins. Doesn't make sense.
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  Speaker 2: Respect the bird I know, I know.
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  Speaker 4: Well, let's get into this story not story fact pattern
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  Speaker 4: in Tennessee. Let's head over to Tennessee. So what happens here? So,
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  Speaker 4: Joe has a will admitted to probate on March third,
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  Speaker 4: twenty twenty one. Dates are important here. Two years later,
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  Speaker 4: on March third, twenty twenty three, David's son files a
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  Speaker 4: complaint to contest the validity of the will, claiming that
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  Speaker 4: Joe was unduly influenced by his daughter Jennifer, who, interestingly enough,
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  Speaker 4: is the pr on the will. So and we'll have
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  Speaker 4: to see how that plays out well in October twenty
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  Speaker 4: twenty three, Jennifer.
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  Speaker 3: Remember we've got March in March.
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  Speaker 4: So in October of twenty twenty three, Mark Jennifer files
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  Speaker 4: a motion to dismiss because Joe only had two years
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  Speaker 4: to file the complaint. There's a statute of limitations, right,
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  Speaker 4: you die, you have two years to file a complaint
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  Speaker 4: in that state. It's different in other states. So I
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  Speaker 4: believe in mass it's only one year to file a complaint.
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  Speaker 4: And so he filed the complaint on March third, twenty
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  Speaker 4: twenty three. Remember the probate was filed on March third,
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  Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, no same day. Two years later, same day,
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  Speaker 4: he filed the complaint at eleven forty five in the morning.
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  Speaker 4: Turns out the probate was filed at ten o'clock in
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  Speaker 4: the morning. So the probate court said, we agree, you
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  Speaker 4: missed your filing deadline. Too bad for you. Motion to
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  Speaker 4: dismiss granted. He didn't like that, so he appealed. They
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  Speaker 4: reversed and they said, you know what, the exact hour
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  Speaker 4: and minute doesn't necessarily be determinative when dealing with the
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  Speaker 4: statute of limitations. Remand the case and have it.
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  Speaker 2: It does seem a little obnoxious.
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  Speaker 3: It does.
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  Speaker 4: I'm on the fence on this one with you, though, Susan.
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  Speaker 4: I gotta tell you, but I.
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  Speaker 2: Would think it would be the day before, because if
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  Speaker 2: you count up your days, that's two whole years. That
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  Speaker 2: next day would be the start of the third year.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm on the fence on this one because
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  Speaker 4: to me, a deadline's a deadline. It's not a deadline.
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  Speaker 4: Well maybe no, it's a deadline. And if you're gonna
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  Speaker 4: have a deadline, you should have a deadline. I can
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  Speaker 4: assure you if you're a dayly to the irs and
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  Speaker 4: there's interest and penalties. Do they're gonna charge you?
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  Speaker 2: So wait to the last possible minute?
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  Speaker 3: Though, I get it.
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  Speaker 4: No, that's good question, and of itself, I totally agree
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  Speaker 4: with you there why you had two years to do it?
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  Speaker 4: But then again that goes to the whole point of
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  Speaker 4: well you missed it, shame on you. Anyways, folks, that's
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  Speaker 4: not really why I'm explaining this. I want to give
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  Speaker 4: us some tips and lessons and understand, you know, we
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  Speaker 4: don't want to.
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  Speaker 3: Be in this situation, right.
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  Speaker 4: We want to do our advanced planning and get it
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  Speaker 4: done and not worry about things like this. So in
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  Speaker 4: this case, they were arguing that it was undue influence
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  Speaker 4: not capacity.
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  Speaker 3: But we're going to talk about.
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  Speaker 4: Both because those are the two ways that your estate
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  Speaker 4: plan is generally attacked.
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  Speaker 3: So here what is undue influence?
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  Speaker 4: Well, when you're preparing your estate plan, if you notice
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  Speaker 4: your one child is talking to you about it a lot,
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  Speaker 4: they're you know, sort of requesting that you get the
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  Speaker 4: estate plan done, maybe making some references about who should
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  Speaker 4: get what, you know, and the next thing you know,
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  Speaker 4: they pick out the lawyer for you, and you know,
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  Speaker 4: then they actually drive you over to the lawyer's office,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, at the end of the day, you
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  Speaker 4: get a new estate planning document. I don't care if
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  Speaker 4: it's a will or a trust that lo and behold
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  Speaker 4: somehow benefits you, right, either greatly or even moderately. That
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  Speaker 4: is the epitome of undoe influence. Right, that's bad and
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  Speaker 4: that's what they're accusing. That's what the brother was accusing
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  Speaker 4: the sister Jennifer of doing in this case. Now, let
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  Speaker 4: me give you a real life story on how these
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  Speaker 4: play out. So you know, if you have a client
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  Speaker 4: that comes in and they do after they've been our
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  Speaker 4: client for years, they come back and they say, you know,
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  Speaker 4: we want to exercise the limited power of appointment to
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  Speaker 4: change even an irrevocable trust that we might have done,
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  Speaker 4: a medicaid irvocable trust, and we give them the power
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  Speaker 4: to do that. And so what happens is, you know,
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  Speaker 4: a child calls and starts asking about this, you know,
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  Speaker 4: can you change the trust? How can it be changed?
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  Speaker 4: And then they start saying, yeah, and this is what
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  Speaker 4: my parents want.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's a really bad sign. Right.
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  Speaker 4: So from our standpoint, you know, that's like undue influence.
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  Speaker 4: So we start saying listen, this is great, that's what
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  Speaker 4: you want, but we don't really care what you want.
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  Speaker 3: We need to now get.
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  Speaker 2: That parent because the kids aren't the client.
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  Speaker 4: No, no, and we need to get that parent in
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  Speaker 4: the office alone, and then we can ask a series
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  Speaker 4: of questions kind of unbeknownst to the client what we're
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  Speaker 4: trying to do to really determine, you know, is this
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  Speaker 4: your wish?
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  Speaker 3: Why is it your wish? What's going on?
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  Speaker 2: You know, you still have mind to change it, and
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  Speaker 2: so yeah, we ask a series of questions.
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  Speaker 3: Get that done. So that helps clarify all of that.
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  Speaker 4: Now, what if the client calls on their own, that's okay,
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  Speaker 4: they say, you know, I want to change this, and
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  Speaker 4: usually when they exercise their limited power of appointment there
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  Speaker 4: they're removed somebody or cutting back somebody's interest. So you know,
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  Speaker 4: we'll say that's fine, we're happy to do it. But
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  Speaker 4: when you're doing it, you exercise your limited power of appointment.
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  Speaker 4: We explain that you change your will to exercise the
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  Speaker 4: power in the trust to change certain paragraphs in the trust,
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  Speaker 4: getting rid of whoever it is you wanted to get
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  Speaker 4: rid of. And once we get all that done, and
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  Speaker 4: we explain how it works great flexibility right in these
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  Speaker 4: irrevocable trusts usually limited to children, grandchildren, siblings, whatever you
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  Speaker 4: want to limit the class to. But you can change
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  Speaker 4: it if you want to. Even after we get that done,
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  Speaker 4: we always tell them, you know, it's probably not a
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  Speaker 4: bad idea to practice defensive law here. You know that
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  Speaker 4: person's going to come back and sue when you die.
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  Speaker 4: Why not go to your primary care physician. Just get
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  Speaker 4: us a one sentence note saying the doctor, as far
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  Speaker 4: as I know, there is no cognitive inabilities with you.
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  Speaker 4: It just helps, especially from a defensive laws see to
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  Speaker 4: the point that off dynamic. Yeah, well, if you're cutting
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  Speaker 4: someone out, they're going to you want to be ready
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  Speaker 4: for that. So it's going to happen. So those are
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  Speaker 4: just some things to think about when you're doing your
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  Speaker 4: estate plan. And another thing to think about is iras
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  Speaker 4: and how to deal with them because they're complicated. Get
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: this guide eight six six eight four eight five six
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: financial advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to the Legal Exchange
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Spouses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
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  Speaker 1: advisory services. You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lunsky,
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Toddltsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Iory Group, and I'm
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Where
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: we headed now, Todd.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: We're actually going to do. It's a real life story.
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  Speaker 4: It's I found that I was talking to a client last.
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  Speaker 2: Week, so it's here. We're staying at home.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: We're staying at home, We're not going anywhere. And it's
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: really helpful because it really deals with this exact You
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: know why you name your estate and IRA beneficiary. It's
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: the end of the month. It's the perfect time for
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: this story because folks, this is new stuff when it
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: comes to estate planning twenty twenty two. That's new in
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: the estate planning world, and it's pretty heavy lifting. So
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: let's see if I can walk you through it and
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: help you understand how it works. So you got a
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: husband and wife. They got a one point three million
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: dollar home. They each have seven hundred and fifty thousand
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  Speaker 4: dollars in iras and two hundred thousand dollars in some
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: bank accounts kicking around on jointly. Okay, it's about a
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: three million dollar a state if you add up the numbers.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: They want to do both the state planning and you know,
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: nursing home planning at the same time. Sure, okay, not
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: a tall order. What's the general situation, right, Well, that's fine.
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  Speaker 4: You're usually going to name the kids as the beneficiaries
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: or the the IRA beneficiary would generally be the spouse
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: and then the kids. Keep that in mind because that
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: can't go anyway. So what's their largest asset, Well, it's
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: the house. So we're going to take the house and
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: we're going to put it fifty to fifty into their
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  Speaker 4: irrevocable trust. We're going to do two irrevocable trusts for them.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: That makes sense. That will avoid probate, that will be
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: protected from the nursing home in five years, and that
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: will be sheltered for a state taxes.
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  Speaker 3: I like it. What else?
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  Speaker 4: Well, you know you could place their joint account in there,
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  Speaker 4: but you know that that's usually people like to keep
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: some money kicking around, so need some. Yeah, and of
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  Speaker 4: course iras the second largest asset in this group of
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  Speaker 4: assets they can't name. They can't put that in the
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  Speaker 4: trust right now. Why Well, because it would be a
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  Speaker 4: huge income tax problem. So we're going to have to
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  Speaker 4: leave those where they.
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  Speaker 2: Are because they would have to withdraw them right, pay
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  Speaker 2: the taxes, and have them not be retirement accounts anymore.
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  Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, and move as you said, pay the taxes,
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  Speaker 4: but let's put numbers on it. Move forty percent less
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  Speaker 4: money into this trust to try and protect it.
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  Speaker 3: Not a good idea.
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  Speaker 4: In fact, it's an impossible thing to do. So we
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  Speaker 4: would leave it there and they would live on it,
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  Speaker 4: and they would likely be naming their spouse as the
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  Speaker 4: beneficiary and the kids as the contingent because it makes sense. Okay, Well,
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  Speaker 4: if you do that, let's start analyzing the estate ramifications,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: the income tax ramifications of this decision, and the medicaid
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: ramifications of this decision. And that's really how we're going
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: to break it down. I'm going to take you through
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: it now. Before I do that, I'm just going to
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: go and let you remind you that this is the
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: kind of thing we're going to be talking about in
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: our guide. Get this guide, folks. It's the end of
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: the month. It will in fact, there's an example in
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: there similar to this that will walk you through how
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: all of those tax consequences are resolved and that you
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: can now figure out the best way to handle your
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: IRA in your estate plan. Why naming your estate and
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: IRA beneficiary might be the best way to go? Call
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: and get the guide eight six six eight four eight
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: again eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com. End of the month, folks,
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: it's going away after this, Okay. So what's the result. Well,
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: if we left it like this, the one point five
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: million dollars on the death of the first spouse would
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: pass under the marital abduction and not be sheltered for
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: a state taxes. What is that one point five million?
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: That is the seven fifty ira that they have, and
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: there would be well, actually, in this case, the amount
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: the amount of assets, the one point five million that
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: would pass to the spouse is not really one point
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: five million. There would be one six hundred and fifty
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: thousand would be included in the trust.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: That's half the house.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Okay, So that's really the only item that's being sheltered
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: on the first death. What else is passing to the spouse?
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: One point four million, right, Well, seven hundred and fifty
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars irae that's going right to the spouse, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars in the joint account is going
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: right to the spouse. So only the six hundred and
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: fifty thousand dollars in the in the trust is going
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: to be sheltered from a state taxes.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: So you're leaving a lot of you're leaving a lot
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: in the table tax on the table.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: So let's back it out right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: Three million was the total estate minus half the house,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: which is sheltered, leaves two point three million, two million,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: three fifty actually subject to be taxed when the survivor dies,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: the tax is only about forty thousand dollars. But you
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: know what my point is, I don't want to pay
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: any There's no federal just a state tax here in
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: mass Okay, well, I don't love that. So what about
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: the income side. Well, on the income side, the surviving
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: spouse is the beneficiary on the IRA, so it avoids probate.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: It goes one hundred percent to that spouse who can
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: completely use it and spend it and enjoy it. And
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: it's not sheltered for a state taxes as we just described.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: And of course it remains one hundred percent at risk
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: for the nursing home.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: So now that his IRA and her.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: IRA, which is one point four million or one point
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: five million, yeap, one hundred percent at.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Risk, and it becomes much harder to protect that asset.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Last minute, if you have a person who has one
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: point four million as you get older, area, as you age, Yeah,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that's right.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: It becomes much harder to protect it. That's a good point. Okay,
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: So I don't love that result. So what could we do? Well,
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: we now need to set up a testamentary trust. You
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: can't do this, first of all without the testamentary trust.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: So I think that's an important hard stop. So when
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: you're doing this, put that together.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: So is this something Todd where you would create your
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: irrevocable trust, your basic legal documents, and a separate testamentary
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: trust while you're doing your planning.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: That's exactly right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: But that's separate testamentary trust is actually built into your will.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: So it's just part of the will.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's a separate document, your will, right, you
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: have it, so your rights's it's a separate document. It's
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: built into your will, which is already a separate documents.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: And your irrevocable trust is what we call it's a
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: living trust. You're alive and it works, whereas the testamentary
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: trust doesn't exist until you die. Okay, yes, that would
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: be the difference between a living trust and a non
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: living trust, if you want to call it that.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So I think a really important point to make Todd
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: is you can't just throw the estate of his beneficiary
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: on your iras if you don't have this language in
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: your will. I agree, it's all for nought. It's just
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: to go to probate at that point.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's not a good idea, Okay, yeah, so
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: we want to make sure you do that. So that's
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: a hard stop. Make sure you do that, you know.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: And also I would say make sure that you're seventy
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: three years of age or older because that's what we
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: call the RBD required beginning date. That's when you must
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: start taking distributions from your IRA, and that affects your
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: required minimum distributions after you die, you're RMDS. So make
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: sure you're seventy three because if you're under seventy three
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: and you die.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: R MDS, the.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Required minimum distributions for the beneficiary will come out over
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: five five years. If you've named your estate the beneficiary
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: five years. We don't necessarily want that because that could
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: be a big income tax hit. Okay, so try to
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: get this done quickly. What's the example. Now we've got
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: the Testamentary Trust in place. So husband dies, he's seventy
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: four years old. Now what's sheltered? Half the house in
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: the trust and his seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars IRA,
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: which is now in the testamentary trust. Both are sheltered
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: from a state taxes. So how much is that? Well,
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: that turns out to be one point four million dollars
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: half the house and his seven fifty, six fifty and.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Seven fifty.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: So we've got one point four million sheltered three million
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: minus one point four million sheltered. Ye wife dies, she's
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: worth one point six that's less than two no estate tax.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: So you've eliminated it completely.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: The required minimum distributions for the spouse will come out
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: over the ghost life expectancy of the decedent. Why because
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: he's at his RBD, so that will come out over
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: his lifetime, which isn't bad because usually the spouses are
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: close in age. Yeah, so it wouldn't make a big difference.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: And I know I'm running out of time. I just
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: want to get you the big bang for your buck
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: is the IRA remains available in that testamentary trust for
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: the spouse, but it's immediately protected from the nursing home
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: in the events she gets sick. There's no five year
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: waiting period. It's not lingering out there. Call and get
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: the guide, folks, learn how to do this eight six
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: six eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Exchange show dot com.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dowan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: be answering your questions when we return to the Legal
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lunsky.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Spouses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: life insurance policy, but naming your estate the beneficiary has
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: quite a few benefits. Cushing and Dolan are experts elder
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: log and they can help you protect your assets from
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: probate and the nursing home. By naming your estate as
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: a beneficiary, you can avoid the probate process, less than
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the chance of creating any income tax issues on your rmds,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and enjoy enhanced a state tax reduction. Call Cushing and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 24:20
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• 24:22
  Speaker 1: guide called why Name your Estate and IRA Beneficiary? Learn
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: about these benefits and others, and provide peace of mind
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: for you and your family during your retirement years. That
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: number again is eight six six eight four eight five
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or you can request the guide online
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: by visiting our website at Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: That's Legal Exchange Show dot com. The proceeding was paid
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: for and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may
• 24:47
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• 24:50
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• 24:53
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• 24:54
  Speaker 6: Last year, we introduced you to Mark Vodder, CEO of
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: Veterans Development Corporation. Mark is a career military and we're
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: proud to have him back as the presenting sponsor of
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: the twenty twenty four DAV five K Boston.
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  Speaker 7: Victor and my brother Timmy serving my country was one
• 25:12
  Speaker 7: of the greatest achievements of my life, and it's why
• 25:15
  Speaker 7: I choose to give back to this special community. My
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: father build Veterans Development Corporation, and I am honored to
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: continue his legacy of working to help many disabled veterans
• 25:25
  Speaker 7: in their families. It also gives me great pleasure to
• 25:28
  Speaker 7: once again be the presenting sponsor of this year's DAV
• 25:32
  Speaker 7: five K Boston. I hope that by sharing my story,
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: many other disabled veterans will be able to reach their
• 25:38
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• 25:40
  Speaker 6: Veterans Development Corporation is proud to be the presenting sponsor
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: of this year's DAV five k, taking place on Saturday,
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  Speaker 6: November ninth at Fort Independence in South Boston. To register
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: for this year's race, visit DAV five k dot Boston.
• 25:53
  Speaker 8: According to a survey conducted by the Nationwide Retirement Institute,
• 25:57
  Speaker 8: more than two thirds of Americans say that the candidates
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: positions on social security reform will influence how they vote
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: in next month's election. Hi, this is Chucksauta from the
• 26:06
  Speaker 8: Armstrong Advisory Group. If you're concerned about social security, call
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  Speaker 8: us today at eight hundred three nine three for zero
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• 26:24
  Speaker 8: through everything that you should know about your social security benefits,
• 26:27
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• 26:39
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax and a state planning advisors before
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: making any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: investment advisory services. You're listening to the Legal Exchange, and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it's time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: answer your questions about anything and everything that's included in
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd, Lutsky and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Susan Powers.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. I have a few questions from listeners
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Gary and Drake it
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Mass and Gary writes, my mom is ninety six years
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: old and she has a revocable trust in place since
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: the eighties. The only asset I can see that is
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: not in the trust are three savings accounts totaling five
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand. Each of her three children are listed as
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: joint owners on the savings account. Should that be changed
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: to the name of the trust?
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Well, so let's let's there's a lot packed in here,
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: so let's try to try to unpack this a little bit.
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: So you got someone ninety six, So that's that's a
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: big issue. Right, I don't know what her health is,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: but she's ninety six. The revocable trust is fine, it's
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: still working. The fact that it was done in the eighties.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: I want people to know right up front that you know,
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: just because it's old doesn't mean it's no good.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Right, doesn't mean you.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: Shouldn't update your documents over time, look at them once
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: in a while, make sure your life events haven't changed.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: But barring that that, the trust itself doesn't expire. Okay, now,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: says the only asset that you can see that's that's
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: not in the trust are these three accounts. But if
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: all three children are actually listed as joint owners.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Each one is listed on one of the three accounts.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Three kids, three accounts, joint owners ones.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: Of course, the question that then is being begged is
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: what are the size of the accounts? You know, what
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: if you've got four hundred thousand in one account and
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: fifty thousand in the other two accounts, Oh, that's a problem.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Well what's the downside of that? Because I mean, other
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: than obviously unfair, but what it wouldn't they be required
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to share that fund with their.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Well, isn't unfair? Downside?
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: I think it is it's other than unfair, Like, I'm
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: pretty sure that's a downside.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Unequal, not unfair. Excuse mebe well.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: Unequal and unfair I think go together. So I agree
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: with you that. I think what you were trying to say,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: Susan is that you're right. It would avoid probate. So
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: you're right. What's the problem there, meaning that the surviving
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: joint owner will get those assets. They will just flow
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: to the surviving joint owner outside of probate, no fuss, no.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Musk, and they won't be required to equal things out.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: Correct, Not only are they not required once they get it,
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: if they chose to do that out of the goodness
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: of their heart, saying I wanted to honor my mom's
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: wishes and treat all my siblings equally. The one who
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: got the four hundred thousand in my example, again not required.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: But even if I did it, the amount that I'm giving,
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: because this is now a gift, would be greater than
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: eighteen thousand dollars, which is the present interest exclusion amount,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: which is a freebie. So there would actually be a
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: gift taxable event if they make.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: The gift, so they'd have to file gift tax returns.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: But not necessarily pay taxes correctly.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: Right, But it will impact your estate tax exemption. So
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: they reduce your federal exemption, which if may or may
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: not be a big deal. Although I don't know how
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: the election is going to turn out, they probably want
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: to lower the exemption. I mean, if the Democrats win,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: I think they're going to want to lower the exemption
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: more than what it's going to be lowered to in
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty six. So that could be an issue. And
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: for your state, it could be an issue depending on
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: what state you live. And you also, at least here
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: in mass I know you have to reduce your exemption,
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: which is a filing threshold.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: You'll still save taxes, but your filing threshold will come
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: down by the taxable gifts.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So there's definitely could be an impact.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Could be an impact.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: There may be no monetary impact out of pocket at
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: the moment, that certainly is an issue. The way to
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: fix it would be simply changed to they can be
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: joint owners, or maybe take them off as joint owners
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: and list a designated beneficiary the trust and then all
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: the money will flow into the trust. And then if
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: her wishes in the trust are equally to the kids.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: You will satisfy that wish with none of these adverse
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: gift tax consequences and still avoiding probate. That's the answer, folks.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: That's what I would do if I was you Gary.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: See if you can work that out, folks. Sometimes answers
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: are easy, sometimes they're not. Assets such as iras are
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: not easy to deal with. But this guide is going
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: to help you learn something about how to do estate
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: tax planning without causing an income tax negative effect and
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: protecting an IRA from the cost of nursing home care
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: even in advance of going into the nursing home, which
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: could never have been done before because of the type
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: of apps. That is last chance, folks, It's the end
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: of the month. Get the guide. Why name your estate
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: and IRA beneficiary eight six six eight four eight five
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Phyllis in Pompino Beach, Florida,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: and Phyllis writes, should a checking account be in a trust?
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I'm the only trustee, but if something happens, even for
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a short time and I'm not able to pay my bills.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: There isn't another trustee, any advice here.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, not everybody puts all of their assets
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: in trusts, and that goes for people that are doing
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: revocable trusts or irrevocable.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Trusts, right.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: I mean I meet clients and they have a revocable trust,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: and I say, let's put everything in and we want
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: to help them do that, and we help them fund
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: and we're funding, and then they come, oh, you know,
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: I got my operating checking account, and you know, I
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: just don't want to get new checks.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: New account numbers, and yeah.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Okay, you don't have to just you know, I wouldn't
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: suggest leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars in your checking
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: account for obvious reasons.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: But I wouldn't.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't want you to do that because that's not
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: good for a state planning either. But yeah, you want
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: to keep operating account open, ten fifteen, twenty thousand bucks
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: in it, you know, to run your day to day
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: activities and collect your Social Security and your pension. You
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: don't want to change any of that, perfectly okay with it,
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: But you know what everything else I would put in
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: so small checking account, keep it small, but everything else
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: I would put in and even that. Again, I don't
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: know phillis a single, but if she is, sounds like
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: she is. Again, we just talked about it with Gary, Right,
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: what do we do? Are we going to add a
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: kid as a joint owner to avoid probate when she dies,
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: because again it's in her own name, it's subject to probate.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: It's not going in the trust. We either a at
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: a joint owner. If you don't care that this all
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: goes to this one child, YEP or B. Put a
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: designated beneficiary on it. They're probably called at a bank,
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: something like a tod a transfer on death account. Put
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: that on it and have it then passed to the
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: trust at your death, and that way your wishes in
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: the trust will be honored.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: So for Phyllis, she's already moved her checking account into
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: her trust. So I'm not sure if it's revocable or irrevocable,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: but for her, would she she wouldn't have the option
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: of listing a co owner if it's her trust.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: Oh I'm sorry, I thought that was the one account
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: we were leaving outside. So yeah, if it's in the trust,
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: you don't have to do anything.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: No, No, but if she's if she becomes incapacitated and
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: she is the only trustee, she can't add a co owner. No,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: she can't because it's only a trus see. They could
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: do that, right.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: So the issue here that I might have I might
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: have not picked up on is if it's in the trust, folks,
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: And this is great. This is for all assets, not
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: just a checking account, anything that you put in a trust.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: So in this case, there needs to be a not
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: a co trustee, there needs to be a success or trustee.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: I can assure you that we never create a trust
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: without a success or trustee listed.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: You just can't.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: So at least one. You don't have to list ten,
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: but at least one. So that way your question is
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: set up where you're right, we can't add a co
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: owner to the trust, nor would we have to. Why
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: because upon the death, disability, or resignation, So even disability
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: of Phyllis, because if it's a revocable trust, Phyllis would
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: have been the trustee. So upon Phyllis's death or disability,
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: then the successor trustee serves automatic. Yep, you might have
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: to file an acceptance to say I accept my position,
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: but sure you're in. Yeah, and so now that successor
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: trustee can actively manage a control work if you will
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: every single account right checks you name.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: It, and then your other basic bank accounts like if
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you have CDs and things like that, and you don't
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: have co owners, I mean you want to avoid probate,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: right you do, God, put beneficiaries on them.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: So on those again if they're not in the trust,
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: put a designated beneficiary the trust for sure, and then
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: we'll go from there.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: So folks get the guide.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: It's the end of the month eight six six, eight four,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Pushing It Do. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: right back with more on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Spouses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: life insurance policy, but naming your estate the beneficiary has
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: quite a few benefits. Cushing and Dolan are experts elder
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: log and they can help you protect your assets from
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: probate and the nursing home. By naming your estate as
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: a beneficiary, you can avoid the probate process, less than
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: the chance of creating any income tax issues on your rmds,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and enjoy enhanced a state tax reduction. Call Cushing and
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine and ask for their brand new
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: guide called why Name your Estate and IRA Beneficiary? Learn
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: about these benefits and others and provide peace of mind
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: for you and your family during your retirement years. That
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: number again is eight six six eight four eight five
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or you can request the guide online
• 37:52
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• 37:56
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• 37:59
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• 40:01
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• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:47
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• 40:49
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• 40:52
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• 40:55
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• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So, Todd, I have a few kind
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: of follow up questions to some things we've already talked
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to about today, and specifically about naming your estate the beneficiary.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: So it's complicated.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: It is complicated, and we have a lot of mutual clients,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and I know that from my clients that have really
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: large irays when they've come in to chat with you.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Prior to this being an option, you may have leaned
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: towards saying, look, you can't protect this, you know, two
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: million dollars worth of I rays. Oh sure, why are
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: you going to do an irrevocable trust just for the
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: house at this point? So would that kind of change
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: your recommendation now that there's something that can be done
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: to potentially protect those iras last minute?
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a really good question because when.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: We talk about these issues, every single case will be different.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: This is a case by case by.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: Case by case analysis, right, because of all these issues.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: So if somebody comes in, you know, and they have
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: two million dollars in one IRA. Yep, that that might
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: be a stop. Why am I doing medicaid planning?
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: It might be simply because that's a big number. And
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: if one spouse gets sick and and goes to the
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: if the one with the IRA gets sick and goes
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: to the nursing home, no matter what we're doing, If
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: the first spouse that has the IRA gets sick and
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: goes to the nursing home, the surviving, the healthy spouse
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: is going to have to decide do I want to
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: go on Medicaid for my husband or not. Let's say
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: the husband got sick. In order to do that, we
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: would have to pull two million dollars out of the
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: IRA then give it to her, but lose forty percent.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, so you're talking about eight hundred grand coming.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: Would never do that, right, You just would never do
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: that because you're probably better off paying privately, because if
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: someone dies a year after you pull it out, you
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: could have spent one hundred thousand instead of eight hundred
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: thousand in taxes.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: By the time it comes out of your IRA. If
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: you do, it's not coming out tax for you, but
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: it's pretty darn close because you've got that offsetting medical deduction.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: If you're private, that's right, that's that's staring, right.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: So it has to make sense financially.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Has to make sense financially to do it, and a
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: large IRA might not. Now let's again, so that's a big, one,
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: big factor we have to think about. Remember the example
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: I did in our show today was you know they
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: only had I don't say only, but seven fifty in
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: an iras a lot different than two million. Absolutely right,
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: you still have that question if one gets sick, no
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: matter what, it's always there. Remember this is designed to
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: shelter things on the first death someone dies and doesn't
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: go to the nursing home, or someone dies with a
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: large IRA, pays privately and doesn't went to the nursing
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: home but paid privately, never went on medicaid. That could work.
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: So now let's play out the string. Say you've got
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: someone with a two million dollar IRA, but a two
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: million dollar home and that's pretty much their estate. They
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: might have a small checking savings, maybe one hundred thousand
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: dollars in a brokerage account.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: Right, that's their home.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: That well, that's fifty percent of the estate. Well, I
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: can protect fifty percent of the house. Some might say,
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: why bother because I got two million dollars.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: You got to work those numbers. But remember if it's
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: if that first spouse who has the two million dollar
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: IRA dies and you did the testamentary trust, it will
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: ultimately shelter it for the surviving spouse.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Now you've got three million dollars protected. Well, well, which
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: is great.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: It be two and two.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: You have four million dollars protected, two for the house
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: because the two if it's a two million dollar I right.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: But if you're right, if it's split between two spousals,
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: would be a million dollar iras, so.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: It's still huge protection.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you really have.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: To run the numbers here when you do this. That's
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: that's the that's what you need to explain to the client.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: What are the upsides? What are the downsides of doing this?
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Generally you're gonna find more upsides than downsides. But folks,
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: the point of this discussion is I don't know how
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: to handle my IRA. It's part of my estate and
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know what the best way is to handle it.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: This guide will help you with that. And most people
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: have an IRA, and most people have the IRA as
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: one of their larger assets in their estate.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Call and get the guide.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: Why name your estate and IRA beneficiary eight six six
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Show dot com. It's the end of the month, folks,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: last chance to get it eight sixty six eight four
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: What do you do with roth iras Todd? Would you
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: also do this testamentary language and name the estate the
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: beneficiary of the row?
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: You could?
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you have a large wroth ira which
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: you can't protect in advance. Now there's no tax implications
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: if you pulled it out, but you like that tax
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: free growth too.
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: That's exactly the thing to think about with an ira.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: So if you if you want to leave the first
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: of all, if you have a roth ira, can you
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: when you're doing your estate plan, your irrevocable trust planning decide, Well,
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: you know, I've got this five hundred thousand dollars wroth
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: They're usually smaller than the big iris.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: It for ten years. I've enjoyed tax free growth for
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: ten years. I'm older now and I want to protect
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: it from the nursing home. Okay, you can pull it out, yep,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: no tax put it in your trust, it's no longer
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: an ira a wroth ira, and then invest it accordingly.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: You want to buy tax free bonds or something. You
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: kind of have your own wroth all over again inside
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: the trust and in five years it'll be protected. So
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: that's an option for some people.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's a matter of like kind of reassessing
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: what your priorities are at that point in life, to say,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: is it more important to me to protect from nursing
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: home expenses or to have this tax ree growth, And
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of them at that age will say I
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: really want to protect it more than the benefit of
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: the tax free growth.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: And I think the reason that might be is because, look,
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: if I have kids that I want to leave it
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: to as well, Yeah I've gotten.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Tax free growth, that's great.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: But if I get sick and the nursing home takes
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: it all, that tax free growth that I've enjoyed is
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: really for not. So rather than be greedy I'm happy
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: with what I have, I'm going to take my winnings
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: off the table. You've heard this in the investment world,
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: and I'm going to put it in the trust and
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: then let it grow there. At least I know I'll
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: have it either for the spouse who's alive or the
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: kids when I die, because it's protected from the nursing home.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: So I don't know that I would.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: Necessarily name the estate as the designated beneficiary on that
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: although if I'm not going to put it in the
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: trust while I'm doing my lifetime planning, but I want
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: to protect I might. I mean, it can't hurt. There's
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: certainly no adverse income tax consequence in naming the estate
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: the beneficiary. It still has to come out, but when
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: it comes out, it's tax free. So even if I
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: was under the required beginning date, I don't care. It
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: can come out over five years. It's tax free, and
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: it's protected from the nursing home.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: So I kind of this.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: Roth Iri explore that a little bit.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: How about once the first spouse passes away and their
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: IRA is now owned by this testamentary trust, what happens
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: if the surviving spouse goes into the nursing home. They
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: had full access to that money that was coming out
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: of the IRA. What happens to that now is that
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: suddenly risk if they actually go into the nursing home.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: No, so that's what's really good about it.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: So if you mean if they were the beneficiary, it
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: would have went right to the surviving spouse and they
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: could do whatever they want with it, right, is that
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: what you're saying.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: No, No, you go through this testamentary process.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Now it's in the trust.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Now it's owned by the testimonary trust, the ira surviving spouse.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: You have a surviving spouse who has access to all
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: that money that's in that testamentary.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, she does.
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: She can get income and wen she goes to the
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: nursing home. So that's a great question. The fact that
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: she has access to it does not mean it's at
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: risk for the nursing home. Because it went through a
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: will into a trust. There's reg elations that say the
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: trust and transfer rules don't apply. The Medicaid trust and
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: transfer rules don't apply. So that inability to get if
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: you have discretionary distributions of principle and income like it
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: would be at risk in a regular situation at Medicaid trust,
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: it's not at risk in here and no five year weight.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: And that's how it works, folks, lots of heavy lifting here.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: Get the guide. Don't try and learn it all on
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: the radio. It's too much. Why name your Estate and
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: IRA Beneficiary eight six six eight four eight five six
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com. It's the
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: end of the month, folks. Eight six six eight four
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine nine.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Houses generally serve as the beneficiary to your IRA or
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: life insurance policy, but naming your estate the beneficiary has
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: quite a few benefits. Cushing and Dolan are experts elder
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: log and they can help you protect your assets from
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: probate and the nursing home. By naming your estate as
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: a beneficiary, you can avoid the probate process, lessen the
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: chance of creating any income tax issues on your rmds,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and enjoy enhanced a state tax reduction. Call Cushing and
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Dolan right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine and ask for their brand new
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: guide called why Name your Estate and IRA Beneficiary? Learn
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: about these benefits and others and provide peace of mind
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: for you and your family during your retirement years. That
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: number again is eight six six eight four eight five
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: six nine nine. Or you can request the guide online
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