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FBI AGENT: "We Tipped Him Off" & The Cartel Sleeper Cells (Dan Brunner) · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: They should not have released that video of the bad
0:02
Speaker 1: guy at Nancy Guthrie's front door, that from Supervisory Special
0:05
Speaker 1: Agent Dan Brunner, formerly the FBI. He says they should
0:08
Speaker 1: have held on to it. He says they actually tipped
0:10
Speaker 1: off the bad guy. Do you agree, we're gonna get
0:13
Speaker 1: into it. We're going to talk about that. Plus does
0:15
Speaker 1: the cartel have Nancy Guthrie? Don't miss this. Does the
0:18
Speaker 1: cartel have Nancy Guthrie? Is that a possibility?
0:22
Speaker 2: Listen, Anything is a possibility at this point because you
0:24
Speaker 2: can't discount any leads. As an investigator. You got to
0:27
Speaker 2: keep all the possibilities open. But I would say less
0:30
Speaker 2: likely than not. I don't think the cartels have her
0:32
Speaker 2: because the numerous red flags leading up to this investigation,
0:36
Speaker 2: numerous red flags were lighting off that you know, if
0:39
Speaker 2: this were a cartel kidnapping, which it's possible, like you said,
0:43
Speaker 2: it's possible, Yeah, but I'd say unlikely because listen, and
0:46
Speaker 2: I said this before the video was released, that these
0:48
Speaker 2: were amateurs. These were amateurs group. You don't kidnap an
0:52
Speaker 2: eighty four year old woman. Not to mention if the
0:54
Speaker 2: cartel wanted to send a message to Savannah Guthrie. They'd
0:57
Speaker 2: be kidnapping her sister, who could have a longer life
1:00
Speaker 2: span alonger holding, you know, if they really did want
1:03
Speaker 2: to hold her for ransom. That's why I don't think
1:05
Speaker 2: that they went after this grandmother, you know, knowingly. I
1:07
Speaker 2: think that this was somebody from her secondary circle, someone
1:10
Speaker 2: who knew her target of opportunity, that possibly didn't even
1:13
Speaker 2: know that she was Savannah Guthrie's mom, and then just realized,
1:17
Speaker 2: you know, I've bit off more than I could chew.
1:20
Speaker 2: And then when the video was released, you saw the
1:22
Speaker 2: amateurish you know, weapon in the backpack, I mean distinctive clothing,
1:27
Speaker 2: you know, the weapon and where it was placed, the
1:29
Speaker 2: holster where it was placed. These are not professionals. This
1:31
Speaker 2: was not an individual who knew what they were doing.
1:33
Speaker 2: They were inside the house for forty one minutes. If
1:36
Speaker 2: this really was a home invasion, you know, and turned
1:38
Speaker 2: into a kidnapping, they were there for forty one minutes.
1:40
Speaker 2: Home invasion is done in minutes. If this were a
1:43
Speaker 2: kidnapping for ransom, they would have been in and out
1:45
Speaker 2: in minutes. But they were there for forty one minutes.
1:48
Speaker 2: There's a countless number of questions that no one can
1:51
Speaker 2: answer right now, and I don't think that the cartel
1:54
Speaker 2: has them, but it can't be discounted until we have
1:57
Speaker 2: a good solid lead in figuring out who it is.
2:00
Speaker 1: You know, it's all very interesting because and I want
2:01
Speaker 1: to hone in on one thing that you said, and
2:03
Speaker 1: I've been talking about this on my show recently too,
2:06
Speaker 1: the way the guy carried the gun. Now, I'm not
2:08
Speaker 1: familiar with carrying a gun like that. You carried a
2:10
Speaker 1: gun for your living. I carry a gun all the
2:11
Speaker 1: time now I'm in Texas. You have to. It's just
2:14
Speaker 1: what we do. But I would never carry the gun
2:16
Speaker 1: like he did. But then somebody who was also i
2:19
Speaker 1: think former FBI said, we call that a Mexican carry.
2:22
Speaker 1: So is that literally? Would cartel members carry the gun
2:25
Speaker 1: in front of their business like that? And I mean,
2:27
Speaker 1: I guess it's accessible, but it just seems so weird
2:30
Speaker 1: to have it where he had it. For those who
2:31
Speaker 1: are listening on the radio, he had it in front
2:33
Speaker 1: of his pants, almost in front of his area. I mean,
2:35
Speaker 1: it would be easy access, but it just seemed very
2:38
Speaker 1: flimsy where it was.
2:39
Speaker 2: Well, you have people who do what's called appendix carry
2:42
Speaker 2: hurs literally is put You're putting it inside the waistband,
2:46
Speaker 2: but almost like one or two inches away from your
2:49
Speaker 2: private area. This was a holster. It looked appeared to
2:52
Speaker 2: be a full sized weapon. So not like a glock
2:55
Speaker 2: miniature or a sig miniature which would be used utilized
2:58
Speaker 2: normally as an appendix Carrie. This was a full sized
3:01
Speaker 2: weapon directly in front of of his private area. So
3:05
Speaker 2: I don't believe that this is individual with law enforcement training,
3:08
Speaker 2: military training, or regular weapons training. Again, so that would
3:12
Speaker 2: discount the possibility of this being cartel. Obviously we know
3:15
Speaker 2: cartel members carry weapons as frequently, so is this possible. Again,
3:21
Speaker 2: anything is possible, but because we don't have a solid suspect,
3:25
Speaker 2: But I just say it's less likely that it is
3:28
Speaker 2: somebody who is a professional kidnapper, a professional organization. I
3:32
Speaker 2: think this guy's an amateur. I think they just saw
3:34
Speaker 2: a target of opportunity. They wanted to take advantage of
3:37
Speaker 2: a little old woman, and they thought they would have
3:39
Speaker 2: a payday, and you know, they made a mistake.
3:42
Speaker 1: Retired of being Supervisory Special Agent Dan Brunner, Dan, I
3:45
Speaker 1: appreciate the time of the access. I don't want to
3:47
Speaker 1: say Mexico did it or has her, but I want
3:49
Speaker 1: to exclude Mexico. It jumps out at me when they
3:52
Speaker 1: do the DNA that the guy's not in CODIS, and
3:55
Speaker 1: I'm guessing Mexican cartel members are not in CODIS either.
3:58
Speaker 1: That's why I keep saying, Look, you're an hour the border,
4:00
Speaker 1: and the one guy they detained for like seven hours
4:03
Speaker 1: was twelve miles from the border, and I guess through
4:06
Speaker 1: pinging his location through GEO tracking on his phone, they
4:09
Speaker 1: knew that he was delivering packages in that area, not
4:12
Speaker 1: that he did anything wrong. But again, there seems to
4:14
Speaker 1: be some vectoring with Mexico. Does that jump out at
4:17
Speaker 1: you as a former FBI guy, that the DNA is
4:20
Speaker 1: an encodis But one would assume you think this is
4:23
Speaker 1: his first rodeo. I mean, I would think this guy
4:25
Speaker 1: the way he's dressed, and he's covered head to toe,
4:27
Speaker 1: and he might have two masks on, and he's got
4:29
Speaker 1: tape on his wrists, and it almost looked like either
4:32
Speaker 1: he planned it for a really long time and has
4:34
Speaker 1: never done anything wrong before, or maybe he's a bad
4:36
Speaker 1: guy from somewhere else.
4:38
Speaker 2: Again, and I hate to harp on this is saying
4:41
Speaker 2: we don't know anything, But you're right. I think a
4:43
Speaker 2: lot of the point of what he was wearing is
4:45
Speaker 2: into me. In my opinion, he wore a very distinctive backpack.
4:49
Speaker 2: You know, he wore a very distinctive shirt, right, things
4:51
Speaker 2: that could be identifiable. A professional criminal is good wearing.
4:55
Speaker 2: You wouldn't do that something that could be identified. And
4:58
Speaker 2: here's one of the things that was a disadvantage to
5:00
Speaker 2: this investigation. I believe the video the video was released
5:05
Speaker 2: too soon. So whoever released it at FBI leadership, because
5:09
Speaker 2: I know the case agents on the ground did not
5:11
Speaker 2: did not want this released, but they released it the
5:14
Speaker 2: day it was recovered from the servers, that which caused
5:18
Speaker 2: a severe damage to the investigation.
5:21
Speaker 1: I got to stop you, dan Etchei. You're the first
5:23
Speaker 1: person I've heard say that that's amazing. Many people thought
5:26
Speaker 1: they released it, they waited too long to release it,
5:28
Speaker 1: and that they have more video that they should release.
5:30
Speaker 1: Start from the beginning. Why was it bad that they
5:32
Speaker 1: released this when they did?
5:34
Speaker 2: Well, when you get an investigation, I've been involved in
5:36
Speaker 2: numerous fugitive investigations. I captured a ten most wanted in
5:39
Speaker 2: New Jersey. I want all the intelligence at my hands
5:43
Speaker 2: to be dissected, to be broken down, to really look
5:46
Speaker 2: at it before I give it up into the public sphere.
5:50
Speaker 2: I don't want the bad guys to know of all
5:53
Speaker 2: the information. I know we as a public want to
5:55
Speaker 2: know everything. We want to know what's going on, but
5:57
Speaker 2: we don't need to know. That's the most important part.
6:00
Speaker 2: The investigators needed to have time to really dissect it,
6:03
Speaker 2: look at how tall he was, where the backpack was purchased,
6:06
Speaker 2: where this was and for them to discreetly approach these
6:09
Speaker 2: companies and say, listen, do you have someone with this
6:11
Speaker 2: backpack and this shirt, and not to do it in
6:14
Speaker 2: the public sphere, on the social media sphere. By doing this,
6:18
Speaker 2: you have said you've allowed the individual to not only
6:21
Speaker 2: know that they are aware of his identity, that they've
6:24
Speaker 2: got video of him, but most importantly, he's able to
6:27
Speaker 2: discard all of that physical evidence. That backpack, the shirt,
6:31
Speaker 2: he's destroyed. That stuff is gone. And that's exactly what
6:34
Speaker 2: a US attorney from the Department of Justice wants to
6:37
Speaker 2: have in court when that individual is taken into custody.
6:40
Speaker 2: They want to be able to conduct a search warrant
6:43
Speaker 2: at somebody's house that they've been surveilling for a couple
6:45
Speaker 2: of days now to identify this individual, search the house,
6:49
Speaker 2: find the backpack, find the shirt, find the glove, and
6:51
Speaker 2: then they can present that into court by releasing that
6:54
Speaker 2: video the day it was released. And I'm suspecting that
6:57
Speaker 2: it came from the top from cash Bettel, that that
7:00
Speaker 2: he wanted is in the social media sphere. I guarantee
7:03
Speaker 2: you every single case station on the ground, every single
7:06
Speaker 2: member of cast, this cellular analysis team, everyone said no, please,
7:10
Speaker 2: don't release it. We need to analyze this, we need
7:13
Speaker 2: to break it down, we need to understand it. And
7:16
Speaker 2: then once that is squeezed for everything that it can
7:19
Speaker 2: be squeezed for, all the evidence, all the descriptions, all
7:22
Speaker 2: the physical where it was purchased, everything is squeezed down,
7:25
Speaker 2: and then no additional leads, then you can present that
7:28
Speaker 2: to the to the media, to the world. We don't
7:31
Speaker 2: need to know, we want to know, we don't need
7:34
Speaker 2: to know as civilians. And so it was released too early.
7:37
Speaker 2: It caused damage to the investigation because now the bad
7:40
Speaker 2: guy goes, well, they've got me on video, I better
7:43
Speaker 2: high tail it out of here, and he's got you
7:45
Speaker 2: could be on the other side of the planet right now,
7:47
Speaker 2: if we hadn't released it, he wouldn't know that. We know,
7:50
Speaker 2: he wouldn't know that we've got the idea of the
7:52
Speaker 2: backpack and the gun and all those things. And then
7:54
Speaker 2: they can conduct surveillance, quietly, surveil somebody, identify a location,
7:59
Speaker 2: hit him with a search warrant, and if he's got
8:01
Speaker 2: the backpack, we've got our guy. And that's gone there.
8:04
Speaker 1: Great point, Dan, it's Dan Brunner. Go go and check
8:07
Speaker 1: out Bruner sierragroup dot com. It's his website for his group. Man,
8:11
Speaker 1: there's a lot there. So let's break that down a
8:13
Speaker 1: little bit further. You're right, he would not have known
8:16
Speaker 1: that his breaking the camera didn't work. He wouldn't know
8:19
Speaker 1: that they even have that video. So I'm with you
8:20
Speaker 1: one hundred percent on that. But keep in mind, I'm
8:22
Speaker 1: just a doork who watches two hour movies and I see,
8:25
Speaker 1: you know, crimes get solved in two hours or even
8:28
Speaker 1: an hour if it's on network television with commercials. In
8:30
Speaker 1: forty minutes, you can solve, you know, a multiple murder situation.
8:34
Speaker 1: From my perspective as the layperson, don't you want people
8:38
Speaker 1: in Tucson on the surrounding areas to see his gaidence dride,
8:41
Speaker 1: to see how he sort of shuffles around, to see
8:44
Speaker 1: the kind of shoes he has on, don't you want?
8:46
Speaker 1: Because those things can be indicators to those who are close.
8:49
Speaker 1: Like if I if you showed me a video of
8:51
Speaker 1: my wife, you know, and covered up from head to toe,
8:53
Speaker 1: when I see her walk, I probably know it's her,
8:56
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So it wasn't there some
8:57
Speaker 1: advantage of putting it out when they did, or you
8:59
Speaker 1: canmpletely say no, they could have waited a few more days.
9:03
Speaker 2: Yes, there is advantages to it, but the disadvantages could
9:07
Speaker 2: clearly outweigh those advantages without a doubt the difficulty of
9:12
Speaker 2: the case team to be able to slowly analyze it,
9:16
Speaker 2: not to mention, in addition to just not being able
9:20
Speaker 2: to do this that Phoenix, the Arizona Division was inundated
9:24
Speaker 2: with tens of thousands of tips because it was just
9:28
Speaker 2: a general video. If they had been given time to
9:31
Speaker 2: slowly break it down, and they say, okay, we're looking
9:34
Speaker 2: for a male individual five foot ten, the five foot
9:37
Speaker 2: ten wasn't figured out until twenty four hours later, forty
9:39
Speaker 2: eight hours after the video was released. We're looking for
9:42
Speaker 2: an individual five foot nine to five foot ten has
9:44
Speaker 2: a backpack of this make and model, this shirt making model.
9:48
Speaker 2: Does this person fit the description? Like I said, squeeze
9:51
Speaker 2: the juice for all the juice that it's that you
9:53
Speaker 2: can get out of that video then presented to the public,
9:56
Speaker 2: and then those you know, twenty thirty thousand leads, which
10:00
Speaker 2: every single lead has to be vetted and has to
10:03
Speaker 2: be analyzed. That twenty thousand becomes less ten thousand. So
10:07
Speaker 2: not only are the case team in a you know,
10:10
Speaker 2: you know, working behind because now the the individual has
10:14
Speaker 2: got a lead on them, he's got the advantage out,
10:16
Speaker 2: he's holding the cards. You are inundating a case. You know,
10:19
Speaker 2: an individual's the you know, the service people of the
10:23
Speaker 2: you know, support individuals, other case teams, other special agents,
10:26
Speaker 2: people that have been flown in with thousands of leads
10:28
Speaker 2: that they don't need to look at. You focus it,
10:32
Speaker 2: You take your time slowly. The fact is someone at
10:38
Speaker 2: FBI headquarters, whether it p Cash, Hotel or somebody else,
10:41
Speaker 2: made the decision that they were going to drive the
10:43
Speaker 2: narrative via social media. You cannot run a major case
10:46
Speaker 2: investigation via social media. It doesn't work. It just doesn't work.
10:50
Speaker 1: Daniel Brunner, Dan, I appreciate the time former FBI supervisory
10:53
Speaker 1: special agent. I like Cash, I like the President had
10:56
Speaker 1: them both on a lot of times on the show.
10:58
Speaker 1: The President about a day after the video came out,
11:00
Speaker 1: said we're really close going to have We're gonna have
11:02
Speaker 1: some sort of a solution soon. Do you think they
11:05
Speaker 1: thought they had the guy? Because for the President to
11:08
Speaker 1: say that, and I thought that he was premature in
11:10
Speaker 1: saying it, obviously, and it turns out at what he was,
11:13
Speaker 1: But for him to say that somebody had to give
11:15
Speaker 1: him a week and or not, Hey, we got the guy,
11:16
Speaker 1: don't worry, it's going to end soue. Do you think
11:19
Speaker 1: that they preemptively thought they had the person.
11:22
Speaker 2: I think that they did. I think that they We've
11:25
Speaker 2: seen this before, that things have been tweeted online that
11:29
Speaker 2: or we have our guy and then and then that's backtracked.
11:32
Speaker 2: It happens countless time.
11:33
Speaker 1: Now, Charlie Kirk case exactly right, did Charlie Kirk case.
11:36
Speaker 1: They said they had the guy and then they said, oh,
11:37
Speaker 1: we let him go. It wasn't the guy, right?
11:39
Speaker 2: Go ahead, correct? And you cannot dictate an investigation via
11:43
Speaker 2: social media. It has to be done by the case team.
11:46
Speaker 2: Let them do it, let them vet it out. There's
11:48
Speaker 2: a chain of command. Let them work their investigation, and
11:51
Speaker 2: then they report up. And then when they have it,
11:53
Speaker 2: now do they if they want to say, we have
11:55
Speaker 2: a person of interest you know, being questioned right now, great,
11:58
Speaker 2: that's totally fine. I have no problem with questioning one
12:01
Speaker 2: hundred people, bringing them in, putting them in the box
12:04
Speaker 2: and talking to them. I have no problem with that
12:06
Speaker 2: and figuring out what their alibi is. But to come
12:08
Speaker 2: out and to say we have our guy, I think
12:11
Speaker 2: it's it's difficult because it then you know, may you know,
12:15
Speaker 2: may have somebody stop phoning in a tip, which could
12:18
Speaker 2: be the tip. So I think, yes, I think it's
12:20
Speaker 2: difficult to say, you know, to have to be put
12:23
Speaker 2: on social media to do it. I understand, we want
12:26
Speaker 2: to know. I understand, we get that, but it's just
12:29
Speaker 2: not the efficient way. That's not the best way to operate,
12:31
Speaker 2: and the FBI never has really operated that way. We
12:34
Speaker 2: like to work in our darkness. We like to work
12:36
Speaker 2: in the quiet. We've got the best resources, the FBI
12:39
Speaker 2: agents on the ground, the cast team, the evidence team.
12:42
Speaker 2: There's no one that can compare to them. Let them
12:45
Speaker 2: work their magic, let them use their training, get the guy,
12:49
Speaker 2: and then once they conduct surveillance, they arrest him and
12:52
Speaker 2: then we can make the announcement.
12:53
Speaker 1: Bruner sierragroup dot com is the website at Stan Brunner.
12:55
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time and the access. It seems clear
12:58
Speaker 1: to me that there was a camera on the roof.
13:00
Speaker 1: That's why they were up on the roof. They owned
13:01
Speaker 1: a lot of business up there. Do you think they
13:03
Speaker 1: have footage from that too? And then they wizened up
13:05
Speaker 1: and said, let's not release this because we can really
13:08
Speaker 1: track this guy down from this. Again, if it was
13:09
Speaker 1: on the roof, we know if he'd probably if he
13:11
Speaker 1: had somebody in the car, if there was a second
13:13
Speaker 1: person that wasn't on the phone, the ring camera or
13:15
Speaker 1: the nest camera in the front, do you think they
13:17
Speaker 1: had video from that camera.
13:19
Speaker 2: I think we were lucky to get the camera from
13:22
Speaker 2: the ring the doorbell camera, I think in general because
13:24
Speaker 2: it wasn't recorded, she didn't have a paid subscription for
13:29
Speaker 2: the doorbell camera and so thus there wasn't a recording
13:33
Speaker 2: on her service. In other words, I heard it was
13:34
Speaker 2: It took a lot of work by the cast members
13:37
Speaker 2: by the FBI working with Nest to go dig deep
13:40
Speaker 2: into their computers and retrieve just these few seconds of video. Now,
13:46
Speaker 2: if you look at the video, there are two portions,
13:48
Speaker 2: one where the individual's not wearing a backpack and the
13:51
Speaker 2: other one where he's wearing it backpack. Really, it did
13:54
Speaker 2: not see that you look at there's a there's so
13:57
Speaker 2: it seems to be matched together with the video that
14:00
Speaker 2: was released by the FBI. It seems a little bit different.
14:03
Speaker 2: So either that he approached earlier or somewhere else. But
14:07
Speaker 2: I think that we I think that, I mean, I
14:09
Speaker 2: think that most of the video would have been released,
14:12
Speaker 2: including that roof camp. Okay if they, like I said,
14:15
Speaker 2: I think that it's just it's tremendous work by the
14:18
Speaker 2: FBI cast members to recover just this clip, so to
14:22
Speaker 2: be to say that we could recover other videos. I mean,
14:25
Speaker 2: hopefully maybe they're still working on it at this time
14:28
Speaker 2: and maybe they have it.
14:29
Speaker 1: It is Dan Brunner. Dan, let's finish show with the
14:31
Speaker 1: three case. I want to go into what happened in
14:32
Speaker 1: Mexico this past weekend. In a second. Let me let
14:35
Speaker 1: me finish with this, because nobody's giving me a really
14:36
Speaker 1: good answer. I think we're kind of afraid to say
14:38
Speaker 1: why he was in the house for forty one minutes.
14:40
Speaker 1: Why do you think he was in there for so long?
14:43
Speaker 2: That's one of the ten thousand dollars questions because there's
14:46
Speaker 2: so many interesting questions as to how this happened, why
14:49
Speaker 2: it happened, why the individual was in the house at
14:51
Speaker 2: forty one minutes. If you look at the Another question
14:54
Speaker 2: is like, if you look at the blood on the
14:56
Speaker 2: front porch, so there was When the scene was released
14:58
Speaker 2: by p maccounty, a cameraman came forward and took video
15:02
Speaker 2: of the portion of the blood droplets. If you look
15:04
Speaker 2: at it, those are blood droplets, not at a string
15:07
Speaker 2: which she was standing there. She was bleeding out, you know,
15:11
Speaker 2: whether it be from her arm, a cut on her arm,
15:14
Speaker 2: or whatever is. Her blood was going straight down. It
15:16
Speaker 2: wasn't at an angle. She wasn't being dragged.
15:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. It could have been from her nose. It probably
15:21
Speaker 1: could have done that too, Yeah.
15:22
Speaker 2: Correct, from her nose, from any orifice right where she
15:25
Speaker 2: was just bleeding down. It wasn't bleeding out. She wasn't
15:27
Speaker 2: getting dragged out, so she I would believe that she
15:31
Speaker 2: was taken out of there under her own power, and
15:33
Speaker 2: whether she was waiting there for a vehicle to pull
15:36
Speaker 2: up and then she get put into the vehicle, I
15:38
Speaker 2: don't know. And why they were inside for forty one minutes.
15:41
Speaker 2: That's another great question as to so many of them
15:45
Speaker 2: that I have in this case. And I've been asked
15:47
Speaker 2: interviews from around the world, Australia, Canada, you know, in England,
15:52
Speaker 2: all there if they were fascinated with this case to
15:54
Speaker 2: find out why, and I still would love to know why.
15:57
Speaker 1: Daniel Brunner go and check out his website Brunner sierragroup
16:00
Speaker 1: dot com. He's a He's a former FBI Supervisory special Agent.
16:03
Speaker 1: I promised this was the last question. My sister was
16:06
Speaker 1: a dispatcher for a police department for a long time
16:09
Speaker 1: and she called me yester. He said, how do we
16:10
Speaker 1: know that blood was from right when she left? Could
16:13
Speaker 1: she have gotten back home from her daughter's house and
16:16
Speaker 1: maybe had a nose bleed and was standing out front
16:18
Speaker 1: before she could open her door. Do we know how
16:21
Speaker 1: long that blood was there because we didn't know she
16:22
Speaker 1: was missing for twelve hours.
16:24
Speaker 2: And you're right, anything is possible. But I think that
16:27
Speaker 2: if she was bleeding there. She would have been bleeding
16:30
Speaker 2: inside the house. Ah, God, there would have been a lot.
16:32
Speaker 2: There would have been a lot of blood trails or
16:34
Speaker 2: rags or tissues or things along those lines. Good point
16:37
Speaker 2: to show that she was. She moved it from the
16:39
Speaker 2: porch to in the house. So I don't know if
16:42
Speaker 2: there was blood in the house, that's that's something that
16:45
Speaker 2: could be that the case team could have had. But
16:47
Speaker 2: I suspect it was the other way around, that she
16:49
Speaker 2: was either cut, you know, just leaving the house and
16:52
Speaker 2: then just laid, you know, just stood there waiting for
16:54
Speaker 2: a vehicle or somebody to come pick her up. But
16:56
Speaker 2: I think it was the other way around. I think
16:58
Speaker 2: it was, you know, coming from the house.
17:00
Speaker 1: Let's switch to Mexico. We started this conversation about the
17:03
Speaker 1: cartel and whether they could or could not have Nancy Guthrie.
17:05
Speaker 1: You don't think it's probable, but certainly possible. We'll keep
17:08
Speaker 1: on following that lead. Whatever the leads take us. But
17:11
Speaker 1: what the will happened in Jllisco, Mexico. Suddenly the drug king,
17:15
Speaker 1: the cartel boss is dead. Did we kill him? Did
17:19
Speaker 1: our agencies kill him? Did Mexico kill him? What happened there.
17:23
Speaker 2: So what is so SEEJNG is the new generation Jalisco cartel.
17:29
Speaker 2: It is one of the most powerful cartels, really one
17:32
Speaker 2: of the most powerful organizations in this world. They had
17:36
Speaker 2: literally weaponry, armory, weapons, tanks, vehicles, armored, you name the
17:41
Speaker 2: kind of weapon they have, they have it. They had
17:44
Speaker 2: people sent to the Ukraine to be trained on how
17:46
Speaker 2: to conduct drone war. Wow, this is how powerful SIEJNG
17:50
Speaker 2: was moving billions of dollars with the narcotics, weapons, human trafficking,
17:55
Speaker 2: human smuggling, all of it. They were a full criminal organization,
17:59
Speaker 2: even going into identity that that's how advanced CJ and
18:03
Speaker 2: G was. And their leader is Elmentcho. So he was
18:07
Speaker 2: been you know, he's been this mythic, you know, this
18:10
Speaker 2: mythical person who supposedly died in twenty twenty two and
18:13
Speaker 2: then resurfaced. So there's been a lot of speculation. He's
18:17
Speaker 2: one of the most wanted individuals in this in the world.
18:20
Speaker 2: He's been sought after here in the United States. The
18:22
Speaker 2: DEA has got great case against them. So he was
18:25
Speaker 2: finally located and I am assuming from what I understand
18:28
Speaker 2: you utilizing US intelligence. US intelligence could be anything, could
18:32
Speaker 2: be signals intelligence where they are tracking a cell phone,
18:34
Speaker 2: you know, individual covert intelligence. So you had sources that
18:39
Speaker 2: are on the ground reporting that we're looking to get
18:41
Speaker 2: that fifteen million dollars pay day. That intelligence or and
18:44
Speaker 2: you know you've got aircraft, drones could have been conducting
18:47
Speaker 2: surveillance anything like that. Surveillance was provided to Mexican authorities
18:52
Speaker 2: and they conducted the strike. They conducted the attack on
18:55
Speaker 2: Elmencho in the location that where he's at now. Supposedly
18:58
Speaker 2: reporting is that he was wounded and he was put
19:01
Speaker 2: on an aircraft to go to the hospital, but he
19:04
Speaker 2: died en route. So that has thus created the situation
19:08
Speaker 2: we have here. We've seen it in the past where
19:10
Speaker 2: individual senior leaders of the cartels have been taken into
19:13
Speaker 2: custody and then there's all out warfare in certain towns.
19:17
Speaker 2: This is different, and here's why. There are approximately thirty
19:21
Speaker 2: seven smaller cartels that are part of CJNG. CJNG is
19:25
Speaker 2: not just one cartel. They are the conglomerate. It's almost
19:29
Speaker 2: a group of thirty seven smaller cartels that all operate
19:32
Speaker 2: under one umbrella and distribute their wealth equally. These thirty
19:37
Speaker 2: seven cartels have each individual leader, they have a cartel
19:41
Speaker 2: leader themselves. Each one of those leaders now want to
19:44
Speaker 2: be Emento. They want to be the boss. So they're
19:47
Speaker 2: now battling utilizing all these weapons that they have, fifty
19:51
Speaker 2: caliber barrett you know, full automatic machine guns, you know,
19:54
Speaker 2: fully armored vehicles. There are battling not only the Mexican
20:00
Speaker 2: National Guards, the police, but they're going to start battling
20:03
Speaker 2: each other because they want they want superiority.
20:08
Speaker 1: Let me stop, if you don't mind, let me stop
20:09
Speaker 1: you there, because again, just watching over the weekend, we
20:12
Speaker 1: see them like taking over airports. We hear about them
20:14
Speaker 1: wanting to go and take Americans hostage. So I thought
20:17
Speaker 1: the reaction was, let's go and get a bunch of
20:20
Speaker 1: people who show them how strong we are. But you're
20:21
Speaker 1: saying this is actually leading to and all out war
20:24
Speaker 1: to see who the new leader of the cartel is
20:26
Speaker 1: going to be.
20:27
Speaker 2: Not only that, here's the other thing that this could
20:30
Speaker 2: lead to all out civil war between the cartels because
20:33
Speaker 2: not only do you have the thirty seven or so
20:36
Speaker 2: cartel bosses all trying to become the new leader of
20:39
Speaker 2: CG ANDNG, but then you'll have rival cartels like Sinaloa
20:44
Speaker 2: or Baja or or the Gulf cartel. All of them
20:47
Speaker 2: are going to want to get a slice of CG
20:49
Speaker 2: andng's pie. So you're going to see them fighting with
20:52
Speaker 2: CG ANDNG forces to push back and say we are
20:57
Speaker 2: now the big dog. CG and G and Sinelo have
20:59
Speaker 2: been the two big cartels in Mexico for a while
21:02
Speaker 2: now here in Montana where I live. There, they have
21:05
Speaker 2: a presence here in Montana.
21:06
Speaker 1: Stop.
21:08
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, so they're in Montana. It's
21:11
Speaker 2: both CJ and G and Cineloa. There's a lot of
21:14
Speaker 2: drug trafficking, huge trafficking up here, and you have to
21:17
Speaker 2: take care of a lot of the north you know,
21:19
Speaker 2: southern border has been locked down, thankfully, and but you've
21:22
Speaker 2: got a lot of the northern border, which are.
21:24
Speaker 1: They going around there bringing it in through places like
21:26
Speaker 1: Montana and Washington State and just down the line. I mean,
21:29
Speaker 1: that's just crazy. I would I would even think about that.
21:31
Speaker 1: So they're circumventing it by going through Canada.
21:34
Speaker 2: There's also reports of Sineloa has set up their methamphetamine factories,
21:40
Speaker 2: you know, building their factories in Canada so that they
21:43
Speaker 2: don't have to create it in Mexico. Ship it to
21:45
Speaker 2: Canada and then they just they just by gone they
21:49
Speaker 2: created in Canada and then ship it straight south. There's
21:52
Speaker 2: parts of the northern border which are completely open, people
21:54
Speaker 2: can walk straight across. It's not like the southern border.
21:57
Speaker 2: It's completely different territory. That's why one of the things
22:00
Speaker 2: that Cash Hotel has done is create the FBI Billings Division.
22:05
Speaker 2: So there's now going to be more FBI forces that
22:08
Speaker 2: are going to be put here in Montana because we
22:10
Speaker 2: are a border state. So there's going to be a
22:12
Speaker 2: lot of concern but hit that's the thing is one
22:14
Speaker 2: of the things that concerns me is we're seeing all
22:17
Speaker 2: this fighting right now, fighting with the National Guard, the
22:19
Speaker 2: Mexican National Guard. We're going to see fighting in amongst
22:21
Speaker 2: the cartels and between Senelo and CJNG. Is that coming
22:25
Speaker 2: here to the United States. That concerns me because there
22:28
Speaker 2: are so many cartel members here in the United States
22:31
Speaker 2: because of the billions and billions of dollars that can
22:34
Speaker 2: be made from drug trafficking. What's to say that they
22:37
Speaker 2: don't start fighting each other on our streets that we're
22:39
Speaker 2: going to see what's happening in Mexico.
22:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, did they did they have a presence here
22:43
Speaker 1: before Biden and then it was put on steroids when
22:46
Speaker 1: the border was just wide open? Did tons and tons
22:48
Speaker 1: of cartel members come here illegally and then given temporary
22:51
Speaker 1: status or parole or whatever we're calling it when Biden's
22:55
Speaker 1: let them stay, you know, an asylum judge is going
22:57
Speaker 1: to see them in seven years. Did all that happen
22:59
Speaker 1: in the four years Biden? Or were they already hear?
23:02
Speaker 2: I think a lot of them were here. But yes,
23:04
Speaker 2: we had a lot to come across the border during
23:06
Speaker 2: the years. But here's the thing is is, Okay, we
23:08
Speaker 2: have the twelve to fifteen million that were you know,
23:11
Speaker 2: came across during the Biden administration. Many of them were
23:13
Speaker 2: members of TDA MS thirteen. We all know that the
23:16
Speaker 2: ten percent of these twelve to fifteen million, I say
23:19
Speaker 2: it's about ten percent work, you know, hardened criminals. As
23:24
Speaker 2: percent we don't know. Here's the thing is, the cartel
23:27
Speaker 2: members don't want their people to be documented. Cartel members
23:30
Speaker 2: are going to smuggle their individuals utilizing the tunnels. So
23:34
Speaker 2: we're going to I believe that a lot of these
23:36
Speaker 2: carteil members here in the United States. We don't even
23:38
Speaker 2: know about they're here in the United States. They were
23:40
Speaker 2: smuggled in and are here quietly. They weren't documented, they
23:44
Speaker 2: weren't encountered by CBP or Ice E. R O. And
23:46
Speaker 2: I believe that they're here in the United States, you know,
23:49
Speaker 2: almost as sleeper cells, and then all they would take
23:51
Speaker 2: to do is, you know, create the wrong, you know,
23:54
Speaker 2: wrong moment and they could be activated. And that concerns me.
23:57
Speaker 2: But right now in Mexico, you're seeing, you know, they're
24:01
Speaker 2: battling and they killed twenty five National guardsmen Today here
24:04
Speaker 2: in Mexico, they ambushed a vehicle and they killed twenty
24:08
Speaker 2: five Mexican National Guardsmen. This is just the beginning. I
24:11
Speaker 2: believe that we're going to see a number of days
24:12
Speaker 2: of violence and then you're going to see cartel leaders
24:15
Speaker 2: start battling each other for territory.
24:18
Speaker 1: Daniel Brunner Brunner Sierragroup dot comas's website. He's a retired
24:21
Speaker 1: FBI Supervisory special Agent. When it comes to them going
24:24
Speaker 1: and like people were running for their lives at the airport,
24:27
Speaker 1: why go there? Were they going there to take on government?
24:29
Speaker 1: Were they going there, as I said earlier, to take hostages?
24:32
Speaker 1: Was he just complete mayhem or is there a plan
24:35
Speaker 1: in place? You take out our boss and we're going
24:37
Speaker 1: to do these seventeen things in retaliation. Was this just
24:40
Speaker 1: you know, a spur of the moment or was this
24:42
Speaker 1: a plan?
24:43
Speaker 2: No? I think if they have a plan and it's
24:45
Speaker 2: set in motion. I mean a lot of these organizations
24:48
Speaker 2: like CJNG and SINELOA, they have just like US. I mean,
24:51
Speaker 2: they're operational, they have a command structure, they have you know,
24:55
Speaker 2: they have a military leader, they have everything broken down.
24:57
Speaker 2: And I believe that if they have a little almost
25:00
Speaker 2: like a notebook that if if this happens, this is
25:03
Speaker 2: going to occur, and then yes, I believe that they
25:05
Speaker 2: knew that they were target the airports, you know, the travelers,
25:08
Speaker 2: and you know right now from what intelligence of understood
25:13
Speaker 2: to be is that they are targeting Mexican National Guard.
25:16
Speaker 2: But they are warning individuals to not leave your homes
25:20
Speaker 2: or hotels because they've also threatened saying listen, we're going
25:24
Speaker 2: to go to the hotels. We're going to go to
25:25
Speaker 2: the beaches. Cartels have attacked you know, resort beaches in
25:28
Speaker 2: the past. It's nothing new, it's not a surprise. And
25:31
Speaker 2: I'm talking to a numerous number of C suite level
25:34
Speaker 2: executives down there in Mexico and providing them assistance and extractions.
25:38
Speaker 2: I I've already talked to two different members and I'm
25:40
Speaker 2: working on an extraction for another team right now getting
25:43
Speaker 2: them out of Mexico. They want to get out of
25:45
Speaker 2: Mexico right now, So we're working with our Mexican support.
25:50
Speaker 2: That we that I could say, is getting them, the
25:53
Speaker 2: C suite level executives out of Mexico and back to
25:56
Speaker 2: the United States, back to safety.
25:57
Speaker 1: Bronar sierragroup dot com is the website. Can you explain
26:00
Speaker 1: the hierarchy in a Mexican cartel? And what I mean
26:03
Speaker 1: by that is, I'm an Italian guy from New York,
26:05
Speaker 1: so I know a lot. I've talked to Rudy Giuliani
26:07
Speaker 1: a million times about how he used Rico. I've got
26:09
Speaker 1: at Michael Franzis as a friend of mine, a former mobster.
26:12
Speaker 1: Is it like a New York mob family? Is it is?
26:14
Speaker 1: The hierarchy? There's a boss, there are there's a second
26:17
Speaker 1: in command, and then you've got your captains, then you've
26:19
Speaker 1: got your street level soldiers. How does it work?
26:22
Speaker 2: So I and absolutely I understand when you're saying RICO.
26:24
Speaker 2: I was a RICO agent in New Jersey for twenty years.
26:27
Speaker 2: I took out MS thirteen with two big, massive RICO investigations,
26:31
Speaker 2: So I understand RICO investigations. I understand. Yes, this is
26:34
Speaker 2: all structure. There has to be. It is a command
26:37
Speaker 2: there's bosses, there's you know, section bosses, and there's different
26:41
Speaker 2: you know, all the way down to the street level,
26:43
Speaker 2: and then drug trafficking, and then you were going to
26:46
Speaker 2: have command structures of human trafficking, weapons trafficking. So it
26:50
Speaker 2: is all organized. It's all divided because you not, you
26:53
Speaker 2: had chaos because this is a billions of dollars industry
26:58
Speaker 2: and there has to be structured an organization. And if
27:00
Speaker 2: you're not structured and organized like these these cartels are
27:04
Speaker 2: other cartels that are structured and organized will wipe you
27:06
Speaker 2: out in an instant without command structure, without communications they have.
27:10
Speaker 2: They're beyond advance with what they have at their disposal.
27:14
Speaker 2: Like I said, they've sent people to the Ukraine to
27:17
Speaker 2: train weapons, to train drone strikes. They utilize cell phones,
27:22
Speaker 2: tracking system. They understand the most advanced technology because they
27:26
Speaker 2: have billions of dollars at their disposal. So it definitely
27:29
Speaker 2: is a command structure. It definitely has a hierarchy. They're organized,
27:33
Speaker 2: it's it's a billion dollar company, just like any other
27:36
Speaker 2: company here in the United States. There has to be
27:38
Speaker 2: someone at the boss, and there has to be worker beason,
27:40
Speaker 2: there's got to be at the ditch, diggers everywhere in between.
27:43
Speaker 2: It's all about giving orders, following orders, and the money
27:47
Speaker 2: is controlling everything.
27:48
Speaker 1: I know that you've got others waiting for you. Let
27:50
Speaker 1: me just ask you one last question. I really appreciate
27:51
Speaker 1: the time and the access when we've got to do
27:53
Speaker 1: it again, Dan, I love the knowledge. Let me let
27:55
Speaker 1: me just ask you one last question. Ken, the Mexican
27:57
Speaker 1: government if it wanted to take the cartels out. The
28:00
Speaker 1: reason I ask is there's always this insinuation that they
28:03
Speaker 1: own the Mexican government, that they owned the federalities. Obviously
28:05
Speaker 1: they don't own the National Guards. They're killing them. They
28:08
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to kill them that they own them. Is there?
28:10
Speaker 1: First of all? Is there the wherewithal? And is there
28:12
Speaker 1: the ability? I mean, do they want to and could
28:14
Speaker 1: they if they wanted to get rid of the cartels?
28:17
Speaker 2: No, I don't believe that they have the ability to
28:20
Speaker 2: destroy the cartels. First of all, this is a billion
28:22
Speaker 2: dollar industry. There's a billion dollar companies, companies, and they
28:26
Speaker 2: have a tremendous amount of resources at their disposal. But
28:29
Speaker 2: most importantly, the president of Mexico serves one term six years.
28:33
Speaker 2: They come up with a plan when they take office.
28:35
Speaker 2: President Steinbaum came in and said, I want to do X,
28:38
Speaker 2: Y and Z by the time she is out of office,
28:41
Speaker 2: by the time she's able to start implementing her changes.
28:44
Speaker 2: That takes one to two years. And then they start
28:46
Speaker 2: making the changes. By the time she's getting ready to
28:49
Speaker 2: leave office, and then the next president coming in, they've
28:51
Speaker 2: come up with a new plan, a new team, so
28:54
Speaker 2: it completely erases it and they start to scratch as zero.
28:57
Speaker 2: So no, and I believe that the power of influence,
29:00
Speaker 2: the power of the money, is too much for somebody.
29:02
Speaker 2: So I believe that there's a lot of corruption in
29:04
Speaker 2: the Mexican government, Mexican law enforcement. So I believe that
29:08
Speaker 2: that's way too powerful of a tool for the Mexican
29:12
Speaker 2: cartels to get destroyed. So I don't believe it. So
29:16
Speaker 2: I don't believe we'll ever win the war on drugs.
29:19
Speaker 2: I believe that now that Elmento has been taken out,
29:22
Speaker 2: somebody else is going to replace him, and that the drugs,
29:25
Speaker 2: the drug war will continue. We will just continue to
29:28
Speaker 2: fight on our side of the border, and if we
29:30
Speaker 2: have to, we continue taking them out, continue providing support
29:34
Speaker 2: to Mexican authorities, Mexican military, and to take them out
29:38
Speaker 2: and just to have them just go from one square
29:40
Speaker 2: to the next fear for their lives and then hopefully,
29:43
Speaker 2: you know, we were able to slow the tide a
29:45
Speaker 2: little bit, but I don't think we'll ever get them
29:48
Speaker 2: destroyed now. I think it's too powerful of a tool.
29:51
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was just one term. So these
29:53
Speaker 1: people are getting elected president by saying I'm going to
29:55
Speaker 1: take on the cartel. Then they don't have time to
29:57
Speaker 1: do it, or they don't have the wherewithal, they don't
29:58
Speaker 1: want to have the want to do it. Then the
30:00
Speaker 1: next person comes in and does the same thing. Is
30:02
Speaker 1: there a huge cartel money being being paid for these
30:04
Speaker 1: political ads and to get these people in office?
30:06
Speaker 2: I believe that that there is. I mean, I'm not
30:08
Speaker 2: obviously to current you know what you're looking at. You
30:11
Speaker 2: see on media you can talk to I watched Mexican
30:14
Speaker 2: National TV News. You can see the influence just like
30:18
Speaker 2: an El Salvador and Bukel and MS thirteen, how they
30:21
Speaker 2: influence even though they're they're almost a silent partner. Absolutely,
30:24
Speaker 2: I believe the money is way too powerful and it's
30:28
Speaker 2: it's it's part of the system.
30:29
Speaker 1: Now, this has been extremely enlightening. Daniel Daniel Brunner go
30:32
Speaker 1: and check him out brunnersierragroup dot com. He's a former
30:35
Speaker 1: FBI Special Supervisory special Agent and I just love the knowledge.
30:39
Speaker 1: You went everywhere with me. Let's do it again very soon,
30:41
Speaker 1: my man.
30:41
Speaker 2: Thank you great Joff, I'll talk to you soon.
30:44
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Unshaken and Unafraid with
30:46
Speaker 1: Joe PAGs another one who drop very soon. Keep it
30:48
Speaker 1: right here, make sure you subscribe.