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The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King with Costume Designer, Ngila Dickson · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:11
Sir Ian McKellen brilliantly plays Gandalf and in a third
0:15
film we know him as Gandalf the White.
0:17
I believe that his costume kind of has like a sense of mythology
0:22
to the character. Am I honest something or am I
0:24
just making this up? You're just making it up OK, but
0:28
I love it. Stick with it.
0:43
Hello and welcome to the Arctic Costume Podcast.
0:45
I'm Elizabeth Joy Glass. And I'm Spencer Williams.
0:48
Elizabeth. It's here, The season finale.
0:52
Three seasons, Spencer. We've done three seasons.
0:56
Wow. And this season has been a
0:58
season. It's it has been a wild ride.
1:03
Yeah, like just from, you know, I feel like this season, like we
1:07
really like hit our rhythm in terms of like how our episodes
1:11
are formatted and you know. Just getting we had was
1:17
absolutely exhausting in the best way possible.
1:20
Yeah, it was. Suddenly we had interviews with
1:24
Colleen Atwood and Deborah Scott and Katherine Martin and it just
1:28
kept on Aggie Rogers. It just kept on going.
1:30
It kept. Some going and going and like I
1:34
don't know I'm like I'm proud of us that we like figured where we
1:38
fit into everything and. Yeah, I'm very proud of what we
1:41
delivered this season. And with that being said, we
1:44
still got more coming up in the new Year.
1:46
So thank you all so much for listening this year.
1:49
It really has been a while to ride and I'm very, very proud.
1:52
What were what were your some of your favorite episodes?
1:56
I'm a man, Spencer. I.
1:58
Know, I'm like, I like. I also like, I'll think of
2:03
something. And then I'm like, wait, was
2:04
that Season 2? I gotta say, I loved our
2:11
Catherine Martin March and our spooky October series.
2:17
Like, First off, Catherine Martin March.
2:20
Like a getting to speak with the legend herself.
2:24
That was incredible. And then like, like you said,
2:28
like our interviews have just been so amazing because then we
2:33
come to October and we get to speak to Kate Holly, like, what
2:38
is happening? Yeah, that that was definitely
2:40
one of my favorite episodes was The Crimson Peak with Kate
2:42
Hawley. I mean, we were working on that
2:44
one for so long. So when it actually happened, it
2:47
kind of was like, is it actually happening right now?
2:50
You know, I loved the Penny Dreadful episode.
2:54
That one's like, kind of near and dear to my heart because I
2:57
thought it was going to flop disastrously and everyone loved
3:00
it just as much as we did. And I had so much fun doing it.
3:05
Oh man, I mean, I could go. I.
3:08
Know I also love that episode because like that's like it is
3:12
one of those times when like, oh, this is a full circle moment
3:15
where the two of us have loved something and talked about it
3:18
for so long and it's like an influence on like us as artists
3:26
and content creators. And then today, I feel like we
3:30
just made our ultimate Full Circle episode.
3:36
Right. I mean, it's it's been a
3:38
whirlwind. I just can't even just a few
3:41
more episodes. I had a shout out to was I love
3:45
to doing The Last of Us, Avatar, The Way of Water.
3:48
A Blade Runner was a particular favorite of mine.
3:51
Because, Oh yeah, we did that this year.
3:53
Yeah, I feel like that one was really, really cool and what we
3:55
like learned about the costumes. And of course, I have to say, I
3:59
really loved the Mandalorian episode at the interview I did
4:02
with Shana Terpsake. That one is something that's
4:04
very, very near and dear to my heart.
4:06
And I'm glad that we all get to look back on that episode and
4:10
just hear her voice and learn about her process and her love
4:14
for creativity. So that's an episode I really
4:16
enjoy. I'm proud that we did.
4:18
And yeah, like you said, here we are for the most full circle
4:21
episode that we could ever possibly do.
4:25
Elizabeth, what are we watching today?
4:28
Today we completed our Lord of the Rings trilogy, which
4:33
probably most of you have not heard.
4:37
This week we listen. Are we Watch The Return of a
4:42
King? Oh man, yeah.
4:45
So Elizabeth hinted at this, but we the 1st 2 movies of The Lord
4:49
of the Rings we did for our Patreon series, which didn't
4:52
exactly take off. No, but those episodes are gold
4:56
because Elizabeth and I are drunk in both of them and we
5:00
really have a good time. So instead of we, we were really
5:04
sad that we didn't get to finish the series.
5:06
So we're like, you know what? What better way to finish the
5:09
season than with The Return to King, which is also celebrating
5:13
a 20th anniversary? Oh yeah.
5:15
And I love it for us because, like, I'm like, we based our
5:19
friendship off two things, Game of Thrones and Lord of the
5:23
Rings. Yeah, very true.
5:27
And we've been watching these movies.
5:28
I mean, we said in the last episode, but these movies in a
5:31
costumes are like, so integral to the directory of our lives,
5:36
actually. Oh yeah, I I got my first
5:38
costume design job because I said how much I liked Lord of
5:43
the Rings in the interview. Like, that's literally watching
5:48
the behind the scenes. That's how all of this started.
5:51
Yeah, and for me, I just feel like my creativity and
5:54
imagination just stemmed from reading and watching The Lord of
5:58
the Rings and enjoying the costume.
6:00
So let's get into it, Elizabeth. I'm going to hit us with a
6:03
summary. The Lord of the Rings Return of
6:06
the King The conclusion to Peter Jackson's epic trilogy Based on
6:10
a timeless JRR Tolkien classic, The Lord of the Rings, The
6:13
Return of the King presents the final confrontation between the
6:17
forces of good and evil fighting for control of the future of
6:22
Middle Earth. Hobbits Frodo and Sam reach
6:25
Mordor in their quest to destroy the One Ring, while Aragorn
6:29
leads the forces of good against Sauron's evil army at the stone
6:33
city of ministerith. And that is to return to King.
6:36
And boy, did that sound nerdy reading that out loud, but I
6:40
love it. That's.
6:42
Why we love Lord of the Rings, though, It's it's our childhood
6:46
nerdiness. And then just, I mean, this is
6:51
probably me going a little bit too deep into it.
6:54
One thing I haven't watched yet is the, like, biopic of JRR
6:58
Tolkien. It's on my list for this holiday
7:01
season, actually. But like getting older and like,
7:05
you learn about his life and the history that like, surrounds his
7:11
writing of The Lord of the Rings, especially just like with
7:15
its commentary on like War and like what it means to step up in
7:20
times of trouble, I'm like it. I feel like it resonates even
7:24
more now as an adult then, like as a kid.
7:27
And you're like, Oh my gosh, look, it's Eoin and Arwen and I
7:30
want to be like that and. For me, it's always been about,
7:34
like, the idea of just like having to step outside and do
7:38
scary things and, you know, find courage in yourselves too.
7:42
Rise to the occasion and push yourself across you know borders
7:45
that you never thought you could ever surpass.
7:48
That's what I've always loved about The Lord of the Rings.
7:51
Take us behind the costumes, Elizabeth.
7:53
Yes, we are going behind the costumes with director Peter
7:58
Jackson and costume designers Nyla Dixon and Richard Taylor.
8:05
You will know Nyla's work from Hercules, The Legendary Journeys
8:11
Xena, Warrior Princess, The Last Samurai for which she received
8:15
an Academy Award nomination, Dracula Untold, Crouching Tiger,
8:19
Hidden Dragon, Sword of Destiny, and this year's Peter Pan and
8:24
Wendy. And you'll also be seeing some
8:27
more of her work in the upcoming Madam Webb.
8:32
I'm excited for that one. I love me some Sydney Sweeney.
8:35
Yeah. Well, Elizabeth, we don't really
8:40
have a behind the costume facts because it's actually happening.
8:47
We actually have costume designer Nyla Dixon here with us
8:50
today to talk about The Lord of the Rings.
8:53
I'm freaking out right now. You're freaking out.
8:56
We we haven't really been able to even, like, talk because
8:59
we're just so nervous and ready to go.
9:02
But so we're going to take a little break, and when we come
9:04
back, we're going to be speaking with the legend herself.
9:08
Nala Dixon, Welcome back, costume nerds.
9:36
Well, this is a moment we have all been waiting for.
9:39
Elizabeth and I are honored to welcome Academy award-winning
9:42
costume designer Nyla Dixon. Nyla, welcome to the podcast.
9:46
Hi, thank you. We're very excited to talk to
9:49
you. We, you know, Elizabeth and I
9:51
talk about your work all the time.
9:52
And when we kind of talked about having you on the podcast, we
9:55
kind of just laughed at each other and thought there's no way
9:57
we could even find her at this point.
9:59
Yeah, here you are. So.
10:02
Thanks for coming. The timing is really good
10:04
actually, isn't it at the moment?
10:06
New Zealand time works well for the US right now, so.
10:11
Yeah, we had to do a little bit of math, but we're here, so
10:14
let's let's get into it. So this episode's coming out on
10:19
December 19th, just two days after the 20th anniversary of
10:23
The Lord of the Rings Return to King.
10:24
So before we jump into it, when you hear that, where does your
10:28
mind go because me and Elizabeth, I mean it's hard for
10:30
us to even 20 years, that's crazy.
10:33
So. I don't think about it.
10:38
Does it feel like 20 years? Yes and no.
10:42
Some parts of it seem like yesterday.
10:45
I'm still incredibly close with a lot of the people who worked
10:49
on Lord of the Rings. We continue to work together,
10:54
you know, our lives cross paths. So and a lot of these things
11:00
that I learnt on Lord of the Rings has you know, has helped
11:06
in film world for me. So sometimes, as I said, it
11:12
seems like yesterday and other times to land far, far away.
11:18
Well, to me it feels just like yesterday.
11:20
I remember seeing this one specifically in theaters, not
11:23
really the 1st 2:00, but this one I remember because it
11:25
started off so scary. But before we get into Lord of
11:29
Rings, having worked on such iconic projects such as Hercules
11:32
and Xena, and of course, Heavenly Creatures of Peter
11:35
Jackson, how do you feel those experiences prepared you for the
11:38
challenge of working on this massive trilogy?
11:41
Especially since I've read multiple times that you were
11:44
unsure about leaving Xena to work on The Lord of the Rings.
11:47
Yeah, isn't that crazy? I mean, change is scary, so.
11:53
Yeah, well, it wasn't, it wasn't so much about change.
11:56
It was the good time that I was having on Xena and Nick, and
12:02
both of these instances really informed a lot of things to do
12:08
with Lord of the Rings, obviously with heavenly
12:10
creatures. I had worked with Pete before,
12:14
so you know, and I would say that it did give me some
12:17
understanding. It ultimately didn't give me
12:21
enough understanding of, you know, what we were all diving
12:24
into. But that was the best and the
12:27
worst of it anyway. I certainly learnt on Heavenly
12:34
Creatures that you know when Pete has an idea and a view and
12:38
a number you need to produce it and and you know or woe beside
12:46
you. So it's it's.
12:47
And that was more about, you know, his deep disappointment if
12:50
you fail to provide. So even, you know working on a
12:57
film like that which was just low to no budget, he still had
13:02
such high expectations. And Zena and Herk well, fast
13:07
turn around television, you know an episode every 10 days doing
13:13
the two shows simultaneously. I had a staff of about 70 people
13:18
by the time I left. And that was all about
13:22
invention. You know, like we were still not
13:25
in the world of, you know, Internet access or, you know,
13:32
all of that reachability. So much of it was still research
13:35
based and general experimentation and hey, what a
13:40
good idea. Let's give it a go.
13:42
And all of those attitudes which absolutely informed all of this
13:50
kind of work, fun, experimental, not, you know, anything went,
13:57
you know, it was, you know. And if you failed on one, you
14:02
could pick up that idea on another one and follow it
14:04
through and figure out something there.
14:07
And as part of that, I was surrounded by so many really
14:13
brilliant young creatives out of art school off the street.
14:18
You know, because New Zealand didn't have a we don't have the
14:24
institutionalization. There is such a word of
14:28
costuming, of filmmaking that the rest of the world has.
14:33
And a part of me kind of misses that.
14:36
That has gone with all our into interconnectedness.
14:39
I felt that our separation, our imagination, sometimes
14:45
completely wrong understanding of how something was done or
14:49
built, really took us down roads where no one else went.
14:53
But of course, now that's that. That's taken out of your hands.
15:00
Let's get into The Lord of the Rings.
15:02
Obviously, costume design plays an essential role in bringing
15:06
Middle Earth to life. How did you approach the
15:09
challenge of creating costumes that not only fit the characters
15:13
but also contributed to the overall visual storytelling of
15:16
the film, especially with the added challenge of shooting
15:20
three films at once? So what did your like prep and
15:23
continued work look like over that time period?
15:27
I think Ellen Lee was really important to me that to have
15:34
those guys, the illustrators who were so steeped in in Lord of
15:42
the Rings and Ellen being such a sweetheart in his malleability
15:48
really, you know, like he will have drawn something and I would
15:52
go hey, but what if we, you know, and he was always, he was
15:56
just an incredibly open person and he would take from things I
16:01
showed him or things we talked about and it would just he would
16:05
just draw it into his world. So Grant Major Ellen Lee,
16:10
creatively massive. Massive.
16:14
You know, like we we were right next door to each other and that
16:18
shite old building that we were all working in and you know, in
16:24
between wind gusts and Wellington and it was, you know,
16:29
it was it was the place to go and sit and take a deep breath
16:33
when you, you know when you're deathly afraid.
16:37
Sometimes the pressure was crazy and we started late.
16:43
I can't remember. I I do remember.
16:46
And again comes that naivety. I know that our prep time was
16:52
crazily short for a show of this magnitude.
16:57
And again, in a way, what you don't know really helps you, you
17:03
know? I mean, if you knew you should
17:05
have 20 weeks or something, you know, or more to develop these
17:10
kinds of ideas, it would have, it would have seemed way more
17:15
impossible to do. But I had read Lord of the Rings
17:21
when I was in my 20s and I never, I never went back to it
17:26
At at one point I made a call that I had so many people who
17:31
were obsessed, deeply obsessed with Lord of the Rings as a
17:36
story that I decided that my best approach to it was to, I
17:43
guess, helicopter, you know, like be the aerial view, see it
17:47
as, see it as worlds and create those worlds and then fill them
17:53
up with people And. And so I was just really
17:59
interested in creating very strong individual worlds, you
18:04
know, and a simplicity to it, which really suits the books and
18:08
the worlds that he created. I think it's you wonder.
18:13
A really fine line with something like this is if you
18:18
get too detailed, you start to lose your the cohesiveness of a
18:24
real world. And so that's what, that's what
18:27
I was always looking for, you know, what are the fabrics of
18:30
the elven world? What's the color of the elven
18:32
world? What is the background?
18:36
You know to the hobbits? What makes the hobbits
18:39
different? And you know, and I feel every
18:44
time I, you know, to talk about this, I will be endlessly
18:47
repeating whatever it is read. You know, none of those things
18:54
particularly change. And the hobbits, in fact, I
18:58
meant to look for it, but I was in such a hurry this morning.
19:01
I mean, I've got a folder here of all the original sketches and
19:04
things and the doodles while I was thinking about it.
19:10
And the absolute essence of Hobbits was those short pants.
19:20
You know, as soon as I had made that call that they had short
19:25
pants and they had kind of short sleeves and you had these these
19:30
little delicate, you know, well, these lovely big hairy feet
19:35
actually. But, you know, there was a
19:37
naivety and a sense of children growing out of their clothes so
19:41
that very much. And then the colors were very
19:45
autumnal of those worlds, very, you know, that beautiful time of
19:49
year when you know all the leaves are changing color.
19:54
We it though that really did inform hobbits.
20:00
It's so funny. It's just a little simple
20:01
nuances really bring to life these characters.
20:05
Yeah, and and I and I think if if if I hadn't thought about it
20:10
like that, we would have really got ourselves into trouble.
20:14
You know, sometimes if you over develop an idea you can, you can
20:19
drown. Yeah, I can definitely see that,
20:22
especially in Return of the King.
20:24
There's a whole wide range of these worlds specifically that
20:29
you had to create. I've always especially loved
20:33
Rohan and some of the like Anglo-Saxon, Norse influence.
20:38
How did you approach their design, especially since they do
20:42
have a little bit more intricate see in terms of embroidery?
20:46
Yeah, Well, and this comes back to the thing of switching and
20:50
talking with Grant and seeing what the art department was
20:55
doing and, you know, making sure that the costume wasn't out on
20:59
its own, that the language that the art department was
21:03
developing in the Great Hall and, you know, all of the
21:07
decorative elements that were beginning to appear, it became a
21:10
bit of a swap meet of ideas. And, you know, so you'd go over
21:17
to the art department, you'd see something that they were working
21:19
on and vice versa, you know, like we would start working on
21:25
an embroidery. And and it is absolutely very
21:28
much that Anglo-Saxon world that I wanted.
21:31
You know like and again because these are such extraordinary
21:37
books of their time of Englishness.
21:41
You know it it was and it's funny that you know I'm a New
21:47
Zealander so many steps away from that and you're Americans.
21:50
You know we're all the offshoots of of all of that world and and
21:55
you know that looking at medieval costume and and that
22:00
was one of the other things that I found really interesting as I
22:02
went along the way was that you you find that you can drift
22:07
across the centuries but you have to do it really carefully
22:11
that that at no point do you want to lose your audience while
22:17
you're doing that. You know, like you've somehow
22:19
got to hold them in the world and and I'm a bit like you you
22:25
guys. I think this was really
22:27
successful. Oh yeah.
22:30
Yeah. It just all worked and Miranda
22:34
was just fabulous. In fact you know the casting of
22:38
this was was pitch perfect and and we were talking about this
22:43
quite recently actually because it's so I've been working for
22:47
quite a while this year on a show which isn't dissimilar you
22:52
know as in it's a fantasy show and it's it's it's in another
22:57
world. You know like it's it's a it's a
23:00
adjacent world and it's always about how far can you push
23:05
things while holding the audience and making them feel
23:09
comfortable in that space. And yeah, it's it's a it's a
23:16
really interesting conundrum and and to not overdo and not under
23:22
do no under cooking as you go along the way.
23:26
And then you know, at other times it's just sheer
23:29
desperation. I've got 24 hours.
23:31
I need a frock on that girl. What am I going to do?
23:36
Yeah, well, like you said, I feel like Rohan was very
23:40
successful and you almost it's so immersive.
23:43
You kind of want to live there, but then when you get to
23:45
ministerith, I always felt like you were trying to make it where
23:48
it felt very cold at the same time, where it's a little bit
23:52
more rich and polished, but there's something about that's a
23:54
little bit more haunting. I mean it, it was meant to be
23:59
darker. It was meant to be cleaner.
24:02
It was meant to be richer, you know, so, so that the world of
24:07
Rohan was so much more. I mean I guess in that way it
24:14
was between the hobbits, you know like you you need that.
24:19
And also I come back to the build, I mean the the sort of
24:24
marble and the coldness to everything, the style of this
24:28
character just using the silvers and the Grays and the midnight
24:34
Blues and that, you know like that that sort of that sterile
24:38
quality was a real, was a really big part of that.
24:43
And it's kind of odd because it it all might like if you're that
24:49
immersed on something and you've been at it for that long, it
24:53
just almost happens all by itself.
24:56
You know that. I mean, I I know, you know,
24:59
that's probably an incredibly unhelpful thing to say.
25:01
But no, not at. All it's you know.
25:05
And also what was going on down at Wisa, they were, you know,
25:11
like they were a few blocks away.
25:13
You have to get in your car to go to which better and and they
25:19
just had walls and walls like they had young illustrators up
25:24
the wazoo there. You know trying out ideas walls
25:29
covered in drawings. It absolutely.
25:33
I used to love to go down there, until I didn't, because I
25:37
realized if I got too caught up in in all of that level of
25:41
experimentation that I would never be able to get the stuff
25:46
to set. We'd never get anything
25:48
finished. And I and I think that that was
25:51
sort of, you know, the momentum of the shows once we got going.
25:57
You just had to move quickly, come up with things, solve a
26:02
problem, and then always stand back and and look at it.
26:09
Almost like a cinematographer. Really, really just look at how
26:13
that whole color palette was working and it was it's so it's
26:20
just really rare. And my agent at the time, I
26:24
remember her saying to me, what is happening on this is so rare.
26:29
Nyla, enjoy it. I had no idea what she was
26:33
talking about. You're like, all right,
26:36
whatever. And 20 years later, I know
26:42
exactly what she's talking about.
26:44
Came by two nerds in America bothering you and emailing you.
26:49
But it's but it's also that thing of the of the magic of
26:52
just the right group of people, the right cooking pot at the
26:57
right time and will that, you know can that repeat itself is
27:01
that it can and it can't And it's like a it's like a magic
27:07
formula that unless you're a, you know which is a very tough
27:14
ask here in this part of the world which is my preferred
27:19
place to be is to repeat that magic.
27:25
And so in a in a really strange way when you don't even realize
27:29
you're doing it, you're searching for it forever.
27:33
God damn it. I'm like, wow, that's that's
27:36
pretty dark. No, no going back.
27:39
Only in the back of your mind, right?
27:41
Yes, well, the opening of Return of the King is one of my one of
27:47
my favorite parts of all the movies, especially 'cause we get
27:50
to see Smeagol before he becomes Gollum.
27:54
And I'm interested what you wanted the audience to know
27:59
about Smeagol before he finds the ring.
28:04
You're asking me to dig deep for that one?
28:09
I'm just just looking at it, you know?
28:11
Like he he's like the lost cozy, isn't he?
28:15
Here. That's a good way to put it.
28:17
And you know, the one who doesn't fit in.
28:23
Yeah. And I think that that was
28:25
probably very much what was going on there.
28:29
You know, like he's not like as light and bright as as you know
28:36
core Hobbit characters. There's already a sort of a, you
28:40
know off centre oddity to him as a character.
28:45
And I would say you know, like you know he is, he is if
28:49
anything the most hillbilly of the puzzle.
28:53
And I would and just looking at that, that would be where I
28:57
would say that you know the thinking was with year old
29:03
Smeagle. Yeah, I never noticed.
29:06
But he does have kind of like an Addams Family type quality to
29:08
him compared to all the hobbits, right?
29:10
It's. Really.
29:11
Like, it's so funny. I mean, you know, because you I
29:14
I have not seen these movies. I've seen them once.
29:17
What? Oh, wow.
29:19
Wow. Well, I.
29:20
Guess you worked on them. You you you're like, I know
29:22
this. And also you, you know we used
29:25
to have to watch dailies every day.
29:29
You know years felt like like so it's in in many respects seeing
29:36
it is it's it's just full of I think I've would forever
29:44
question everything with this and go, God, you know, why did
29:51
we do that and what was that about And you know we obviously
29:56
didn't get enough sleep that night and so yeah, but you're
30:03
making me want to go and have a look.
30:06
Oh yeah, well, I. Need more?
30:09
Copies of each DVD so I could mail you one if you need one.
30:14
I think I've got one. OK, good.
30:18
Well, Nyla, I've always wanted to ask you one of my favorite
30:20
aspects to costume design is the breakdown.
30:23
And I think a great example of that is Frodo and Sam, who by
30:27
the end of the film look horrible in a good way.
30:30
They've gone through dirts, fight scenes, everything.
30:33
So give us some insight on what your aging and dying breakdown
30:38
process looks like. I imagine that you must have had
30:40
workshops upon workshops. Yes and no.
30:44
I mean, again, I I can remember in when we were early in the
30:50
shoot, we were in Queenstown and we were shooting, you know, I
30:54
mean, ballpark scene 3 and scene 503.
30:59
And you know, so you're just making these incredibly random
31:04
guesses as to what will have happened.
31:07
In my mind. All I kept thinking of was, for
31:10
God's sake, we're going to have to reshoot scene 503.
31:13
So we'll just go for it and see what happens and make these
31:20
really bold and quite ballsy guesses at at, AT and where the
31:28
world would end up. And then hope like hell we could
31:32
fill in the gaps as time went on and we had and you know, and I'm
31:36
sure you've heard this infinite number of times, I mean, we had
31:40
so many copies of these costumes.
31:43
They were all just lined up, you know, waiting to be slaughtered
31:46
into a particular part. So you can always go back and
31:50
shoot that bit. Or you had a reference point,
31:54
you know, I think there were at least 40 of each of the
31:59
individual costumes. So what?
32:02
Mental gymnastics. Yeah.
32:04
So, so that you could, you know, that you could kind of track and
32:10
and then hopefully look at what has been shot and figure out
32:14
whether you can get away with adding more.
32:18
I am an obsessive about Breakdown.
32:20
Like, I think it's only got worse over the years.
32:23
And I and I have been lucky to work with some incredibly
32:28
talented dyers, painters, breakdown artists.
32:33
And you know, there are no costumes without those people.
32:36
And many, well, not many years. But, you know, I was doing a
32:41
kind of crazy little TV show before Herkin Zena.
32:45
And I remember I had a almost like a pirate coder sea captain
32:52
coat on a dummy. And I was taken to it with a
32:54
blowtorch because I knew that there was, you know, there was a
32:58
particular feel that I wanted. And then, you know,
33:01
paintbrushes. And I had no training in any of
33:04
these things. I was just, you know, and as you
33:07
go further into this world and the quality and the talent,
33:14
actually behind me on this wall is Captain Hook's waistcoat from
33:22
Peter Pan and Wendy and I had I arrived in Vancouver, I'd never
33:29
worked in, oh, yes, I had worked in Canada before, but not with
33:32
this team. Never met any of them before in
33:34
my life. I landed in the middle of this.
33:36
I had, I think, 12 weeks to pull that show together.
33:42
And I remember asking this seamstresses to make me up a
33:47
waistcoat front so I could give it to the breakdown team and
33:52
say, this is what I want this to look like.
33:56
You know, I want the salt. I want the age.
33:58
I want him to be, you know, a dirty, grubby, unseemly chap.
34:03
Captain Hook, you know, he's never changed.
34:07
He's not a clean guy. And and the girls did this
34:15
unbelievable job. And I said, I'm taking this home
34:19
with me and I'm framing it. And there it is.
34:22
There it is, right there. So that's how I feel about
34:25
breakdown. Yeah, Nyla's a woman of her
34:28
word. She's not playing around.
34:31
Oh yeah. That's important.
34:32
It's it's it. It is the character.
34:35
You know, like you can, you can create, like even if you're
34:37
creating something that is brand, you know, supposed to be
34:40
brand new, it has to be aged. It doesn't live in cinema well
34:46
without a certain level of aging, so that it sort of bonds
34:52
with the body. Anyway, There we are.
34:53
That's enough of that. Unlike Frodo and Sam, the elves
34:59
aren't aging and the costumes are so unique to where they each
35:04
live geographically. How did you approach designing
35:08
the costumes for the elves? Especially since they're so.
35:12
It's like their whole identity that they are elegant and
35:14
beautiful. Yeah, so I was.
35:18
It was really straightforward to me.
35:22
I wanted those incredibly soft colors.
35:25
They had to be silvery, you know, like they needed to have a
35:30
sort of glimmer to them. I was obsessed with Fortuny at
35:34
the time, and later I I, I, I actually was made an arts
35:43
laureate here in New Zealand, which was a fabulous thing.
35:47
And you get an amount of money and that amount of money at the
35:51
time, I was so broke, it just went into my bank account and
35:54
life carried on. But I swore that money was to
35:58
take me to Venice, to, you know, go to the Vorcini Museum and do
36:02
all of those sorts of things, and which I finally did.
36:06
I'm really glad I did. So it was very steeped in that
36:13
sort of Art Nouveau quality and those velvets which just drove
36:20
the onset girls insane in a. Good way.
36:25
Oh no, not in a good way. Like trying to keep that, you
36:29
know, looking but magic on screen and you know, just the
36:36
dying to get those beautiful shades.
36:40
And then of course the jewellery team, particularly led by
36:44
Jasmine, you know, it just she just brought my drawings alive,
36:50
you know, in an A+ way. So it was again, it comes back
36:54
to simplicity and I think if there was a golden rule to good
37:01
filmmaking, it is you know here's where all your detail
37:04
needs to be you know in that close up frame and around the
37:10
hands and then just let everything else just be is was a
37:17
really good recipe particularly for these guys.
37:20
And yeah, and we and then, you know, figuring out how we could
37:26
do embroidery when we, you know and knew nothing about the fact
37:30
that, you know, we could whip all the stuff up to China and it
37:33
would be done in a nano stick and that wasn't possible.
37:38
So hours of pipe stitching later to create all of the embroidery.
37:43
And of course, that is when I become a bit painful, because I
37:47
knew exactly the shapes that they needed to be and it all,
37:53
like, you know, there even now in 2023 it it weirdly stands up
38:01
doesn't. It it does.
38:02
It's just like they looked perfect then and today.
38:05
You're like, this is just what I consider perfection, you know?
38:08
Yeah, yeah, it's. There's a really funny story
38:12
about this. There was, there was an Elven
38:15
walk that Peter had a tutor, you know, like a like it wanted a
38:21
very particular movement to the elves.
38:24
And it's, you know, like when I'm looking at that one where
38:26
they're coming through the trees.
38:28
And so they all went off to their elven walk training.
38:33
And on the day in the forest, it was absolutely hilarious.
38:41
It was really bad. And I remember Pete going, no,
38:46
right, no, not happening, you know?
38:52
I would pay good money to see that.
38:54
I can't imagine What does the Alvin walk look like.
38:56
Yeah, it was. It just did not really help
39:01
things. So no.
39:03
And I mean, you know, when you look at it, it's there in
39:08
wearing those costumes, isn't it?
39:10
It's, you know, on a costume like that you're going to slow
39:14
down to a kind of meditative state, aren't you?
39:17
You feel elegant. You're it.
39:21
It just happens to people, you know you put on these fabulous
39:24
wigs and you know away they go. And that was probably and I
39:31
can't. I guess I wonder whether age and
39:35
stage but Oh my God, I can remember so many moments on the
39:39
set of Lord of the Rings when I was distraught, tired, didn't
39:46
know, you know what to what problem to tackle next.
39:50
And then to stand there for 5 minutes, take a deep breath and
39:54
look at something kind of happen in front of you and go.
39:59
It's good, looks good. You can even pat on the back
40:02
before you, you know. Go back there and fight the good
40:06
fight all over again. Yeah, you could cry later.
40:09
This looks really nice. Yeah, we'll sleep later.
40:15
Yeah, well, Sir Ian McKellen brilliantly plays Gandalf, and
40:18
in a third film we know him as Gandalf to White.
40:21
And I've kind of been like a nerdy philosophy guy about this
40:24
character for a while. I believe that his costume kind
40:27
of has like a sense of mythology to the character.
40:31
Am I honest something or am I just making this up?
40:33
You're just making it up. Yeah, OK.
40:36
But I love it and you stick with it.
40:42
That's cool and I'm glad we put that to bed.
40:44
It it in a way it isn't, you know, you know, like how do you
40:48
reach that it The mythology kind of comes with it happening.
40:54
A lot of thought and a lot of effort went into what fabrics
40:58
were used and you know you you would endlessly have heard
41:02
stories about that God damn hat. You know like is it big enough?
41:06
Is it this is it that is it, you know and the fact that it lived
41:10
in a dustbin is it was the only place where you could keep them
41:14
And then it got thrown out because it was a dustbin.
41:20
It's you know like that kind of country quality that to to move
41:28
and in a in a way it is very true that it is that it does
41:34
become mythological because he begins in that rough country
41:39
wizard state very much a part of The Hobbit world and as we move
41:46
through we're revealing who he truly is which is outside of
41:51
time and place And and you know in that final scene I that cloak
41:59
I remember how much it mattered to me how fine that cloak was
42:04
that it was virtually see through but it still had all of
42:09
the qualities of the original sort of almost peasant you know
42:13
like it and and so in that respect you are not wrong my
42:18
friend. I just don't recognize that as
42:21
my journey until I look back at it.
42:24
And so those are the kinds of things that you're reaching for.
42:27
And sometimes it takes people outside to see, you know, what's
42:32
happened versus the the, you know, the people who are in in
42:38
in the good fight. Right.
42:41
Well, I mean, I'm glad we could talk about them.
42:42
We're all kind of putting our minds together together.
42:46
Said I was gonna try to help make you think Nyla.
42:49
So, yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I've been trying to avoid
42:54
thinking God damn it. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
42:57
I love. This scene, this.
43:00
I love this scene as well, especially because there's so
43:05
much storytelling. They're showing Middle Earth
43:08
coming together and it's the start of new and very different
43:12
lives for everybody involved. What was your direction behind
43:18
this scene and how did the fabrics and textiles play a role
43:23
throughout your process of the trilogy?
43:25
We should mention this is the coronation scene at the end of
43:28
Return of the King too. Yeah, I've got a pencil drawing
43:33
of that floating around here somewhere.
43:36
Yeah, it's God, I don't know. I know this was very We were
43:43
exhausted. This is right.
43:44
At the end, it became much, much bigger.
43:49
It was a huge effort when everybody was just out of ideas
43:57
imagination. And I remember that, you know,
44:04
like searching and searching and searching for what color to put
44:07
live in. You know, like it it no color
44:11
seemed right. And I remember that really
44:14
clearly. You know, like we were trying
44:16
this and trying that and I was just like, no, no, no, it's not
44:19
working. And you know, not in a mean way.
44:23
It was more I'm going to cry way it's not working.
44:26
I can't. What is that color?
44:30
And I don't know how or when or whether it was in the drawing.
44:35
You're going to make me, I'm going to go looking for this.
44:38
But that green, it tells a story all by itself and the at the
44:45
minute that I found that colour is such a weird colour.
44:48
Huh. In it is.
44:51
It says spring, it says renewal, it says future.
44:57
And and so once you've got the color, everything else is just
45:03
happening all by itself. You know live stresses were
45:05
incredibly simple because she was just such a magnificent
45:11
young woman just so extraordinary just so beautiful
45:17
and and then the you know again back like the the how much more
45:24
could I have added without turning it into a full crown.
45:27
So to hold that crown in Elvin World and Elvin design and then
45:32
you know and and I remember looking at it and then wanting
45:35
you know more and more and just a beautiful.
45:40
Yeah. It's a that is as close to
45:44
perfect as you can get when you're you know in a it was it
45:49
was a really stunning moment and I think it was shot really
45:53
quickly almost dismissively the scene you know like just because
45:59
you know you you forget that when you're looking at something
46:03
on screen you think but it was just something that had to be
46:07
done and and I almost feel for the costume department and I
46:13
could be completely wrong about this but this is the memory that
46:16
I have the shot in the back of the studio not far from the
46:20
costume shop piles of rubble here there and everywhere
46:24
they've been kind of played away and you know this area and it
46:30
was it was you know it was a just we need to get this sort of
46:35
moment and all the costume team were down there just having a
46:42
moment but the moment was very short.
46:45
Right. So you know you don't.
46:50
You don't necessarily get to go. You know how wonderful.
46:55
Look what we did. Yeah.
46:59
Beautiful. If I say.
47:01
So I I got chills when you mentioned renewal and spring.
47:04
That's such a good way to put it.
47:06
Yeah, it was a it was, you know, and I mean it is the IT.
47:09
It really is the only romance in the film, isn't it?
47:13
That's it. You know, it's we follow these
47:18
two through and it's it's such AI don't know, just just lets
47:29
everybody breathe after all of that.
47:31
You know the stuff Pete really likes.
47:34
You know, the battles and the blood and all.
47:36
You know, we need a bit of romance.
47:39
And there it is. Yeah, it's definitely a breath
47:42
of fresh air after everything that happened.
47:44
But there you are, yes. It's great payoff and every time
47:49
I watch a film I'm usually just blown away by the sheer scale of
47:53
this film. So I want to take this moment to
47:55
really talk about collaboration, which I could imagine, as we've
47:59
talked about, is so essential to the process, especially this
48:02
film. So what was it like, just
48:05
reflecting? Working with your crew, Sir
48:08
Richard Taylor, of course, and maybe even the visual effects
48:11
department, who must have had a huge role, perhaps?
48:14
And Crane some of the characters, like the Dead Men of
48:17
the Hill, who might have been a part of process.
48:22
Visual effects. Not so much because inevitably
48:25
all of that is going to happen afterwards.
48:28
And very much on this show, but Richard Wetter costume props,
48:37
you know, it was really one big family and you know, like big
48:41
families. We had big fights.
48:46
Large army scale fights. Yeah, you know, like, you know,
48:50
we would get really pissed with each other and I reckon all of
48:55
us had good reason. So you know, none of us can be
48:59
LED off the hook for that one. But in the, in the, in that, you
49:04
know, final tradition of family, we're going to come together and
49:08
get the job done. And so there was a lot of toing
49:13
and froing. You know, like like, you know,
49:16
I'm sure the the guys down at Wetter wanted to kill me one day
49:21
and I wanted to go down and kill them and and none of us did.
49:27
And I think we still really like each other and respect each
49:30
other but but that is, but that's the passion you know like
49:36
how much we or how much it matters.
49:39
And you know, I would hope that in filmmaking, ultimately you
49:42
never lose that. It's it's, you know that that
49:46
that fight for ideas. And I mean we we just, you just
49:52
don't know, you know, like this. This was Fran and Pete's just
50:00
guts to go through everything they went through.
50:06
I mean, there was some horrible times because everybody was very
50:10
tired at one point because Pete couldn't tell from a drawing
50:14
anymore whether it was what he wanted or didn't want.
50:17
So we were in. We would end up making three
50:19
dresses for everyone that was going to go on screen and that
50:25
was really tough. That was really tough for
50:28
everybody, but in the end it was the smart thing to do, you know,
50:33
that was to just be gritty and go for it.
50:37
And when I was trying to be positive about that, I would go,
50:41
well, you know, it's such an opportunity to test out ideas
50:45
and we can. We've always got a place to use
50:48
what we haven't put on those people, on those actors, you
50:51
know, or they can recycle into something else.
50:54
I'm not sure whether that ever happened, but you know, that was
50:57
my happy place. Oh my gosh, what a hit.
51:06
Well, all the passion certainly paid off in just a having such a
51:11
beautiful, seamless classic trilogy and The Return of the
51:17
King won numerous awards including the Academy Award for
51:22
Best Costume Design. How did it feel to receive such
51:26
recognition? And looking back, what has the
51:29
experience on Lord of the Rings meant to you?
51:35
I'm I'm eternally grateful to the Academy for having costume
51:39
design almost the first award at the night.
51:44
I think if I've been, you know, if it had been #15 or 20, I
51:48
would have been an absolute wreck.
51:51
And I had this. I had been told I've been I've
51:56
been at a hairdressers. I mean I it was getting that
52:01
lovely hairdo and I had there was it was it was a Sunday.
52:06
So it was closed and with my Japanese hairdresser that I knew
52:09
really well from time in LA. But it was one of the woman
52:13
there getting her hair done and she was obviously someone from a
52:17
costume department. But she was talking to her
52:21
hairdresser and saying, well, I think, you know, neither
52:26
Dixon's, she's not going to win because she's going to count
52:30
herself out. Because of course I had Last
52:32
Samurai at the same in the same ceremony and she said she's
52:38
going to split the vote and it's going to go to, I can't remember
52:41
which one. What horrible math, yeah.
52:44
And I was like, Oh my God, that's true that.
52:48
Makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense.
52:51
So in a way, I had completely resolved in my mind that there
52:56
was no way we were going to win for costume.
52:58
And but then I also had this kind of terrible dread that if I
53:04
won for Last Samurai, I would be a headline in the papers in New
53:09
Zealand saying Dixon ruins Jackson's quick clean sweep.
53:15
Oh. That's horrible.
53:18
You know, so that's a really happy Nyla face.
53:23
Yeah. Yeah.
53:24
And and I remember standing on the stage and the wonderful Ken
53:30
Watanabe was in the front row and Nicole obviously was in the
53:34
front row and Nicole Kidman. And you know, while most people
53:39
are just zoned out in the in the ceremonies, which you know, both
53:44
Ken and Nicole were right there with me.
53:48
I remember it so clearly, you know, like they were really were
53:52
while I was talking on my side, my friends, my, you know, I've
53:57
never met Nicole in my life. So then what?
54:00
Looking back on all this, what has this experience meant to
54:03
you, just personally and professionally as you went on
54:05
from Lord of the Rings? Do you look back just with
54:08
utmost gratitude? Joy.
54:11
Proud? A little bit of a headache.
54:14
All of the above, You know, it's completely surrounded by emotion
54:19
on every level. As I said before, I am still and
54:24
will always be a massive fan of my team who we continue to work
54:30
together as a team for a lot of years.
54:33
And now, you know, people like Lizzie doing, designing their
54:38
own shows and you know, like this extraordinary creative
54:43
people have come out of this world and it's, it allowed me to
54:50
be able to work in the world while living here in New
54:53
Zealand, which I love. You know, I'm a true wanderer
54:57
and I and the one thing I do know about myself is, you know,
55:00
you back me into a corner and I'm going to get out of it
55:03
somehow. Well, costume is iron Nyla
55:09
Dixon. This has been a true honor.
55:11
I can't tell you how grateful for you that you came and talked
55:15
with us. This is this has been an
55:16
absolute joy. So thank you for talking with
55:18
us. Thank you so much.
55:20
We really appreciate it. Thank you guys.
55:23
Hope we meet somewhere someday. Yeah, I mean, do you have
55:26
anything you want to plug? Any fun films coming up or
55:29
everything? Hush, hush.
55:31
Everything's a bit hush hush right now, but you know well.
55:35
Everyone listening, just search the Internet.
55:37
See if you can figure out what Nyla's doing.
55:42
Once again, thank you. Now this has been wonderful.
55:44
OK you guys, you take care. Hi, this is Dan, audio engineer
56:03
of the podcast here. To let you know that if you
56:06
wanted to support the show, you can head over to the
56:10
artofcostume.com Podstore. There you can buy some awesome T
56:15
public merch with the podcast logo, such as a shirt, coffee,
56:20
mug, stickers, and of course a baby onesie.
56:25
Thanks for all your support. Spencer That is everything I
56:48
hoped for and more. Yeah, I feel like I've fallen
56:50
and I can't get up right now. Like I need, I need help.
56:54
That was such a fun interview. It was everything I ever wanted,
56:58
honestly. I love Nyla Dixon and I just
57:00
feel like. I feel like the biggest costume
57:02
nerd right now, just overall nerd on top of the moon, don't
57:06
have words. I know, and I'm just.
57:10
I'm so overwhelmed like. We just don't know what to say.
57:13
I know. Especially because like I was
57:15
just telling Spencer, I was like I had to keep all my fangirl
57:18
like inside and be your professional and not freak out.
57:24
I was really trying to. I feel like I slipped a little
57:27
bit more than you did because my costume nerd level was right on
57:31
the edge the entire time it. Was I'm just I'm just thankful.
57:35
I'm like a shy person with new people in general like that.
57:40
Like, that anxiety just helped roll me in.
57:44
Man, but we learned so much. I mean, I she went she, you
57:48
know, she said multiple times that, you know, we probably
57:51
already know this or that. But what's funny is there
57:54
actually really isn't a lot of recorded history of the costume
57:57
design of the Lord of the Rings. It's all kind of like, I don't,
58:01
I don't wanna say made-up, but it's like assumptions.
58:03
Which is why I was talking about the assumptions behind Gandalf
58:06
and whatnot, because it's really not well documented.
58:09
Maybe in the behind the scenes on the DVDs, but you know,
58:13
that's about it. And it's like the articles I was
58:16
reading about it, they're kind of, you know, they're basic like
58:21
and they're they're on the older side.
58:23
And I feel like I bring this up almost every episode.
58:25
Like, you know, 1520 years ago, like journalists weren't
58:31
scrambling to like talk to costume designers and like
58:35
record like you know their thoughts and feelings and
58:39
processes like in the moment when things are happening like
58:44
we do today. So it was it was exciting to
58:47
hear. Like, yeah, I feel like she
58:50
sometimes. She started out with things like
58:52
we'd heard our read before, but then she went into detail, which
58:55
was so exciting. Yeah, we I I feel like we built
58:59
a pretty good record here and I'm just, I'm eternally grateful
59:03
to Nyla Dixon for joining us. It was a process.
59:06
We've been working with her for maybe two months trying to get
59:09
this to happen and it happened and I'm just super happy and
59:12
grateful so. Thank you for making that
59:15
happen, 'cause I remember you were like, I'm gonna go track
59:18
her down. And I was like, good luck with
59:20
that, Spencer. Yeah.
59:21
No, honestly, I didn't believe in myself.
59:26
Elizabeth I think we need to play our favorite game one last
59:30
time for this year. Yes.
59:32
All right, let's do it. Daniel hit it.
59:37
The one costume to rule them all.
59:43
Spencer For The Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, what
59:48
is your one costume to rule them all?
59:51
So I'm actually very excited about this because I've had my
59:55
costume has changed now after that interview, which is quite
59:58
monumental if you think about it.
59:59
For someone who watches this movie every single day, you know
1:00:02
their entire life the way that Nyla talked about Arwen's
1:00:10
coronation dress at the end. The green color, the idea that
1:00:14
spoke to Spring and Awakening and Hope and all of that
1:00:19
storytelling, I I loved that. It was just like, it really took
1:00:23
me onto the side of that dress and I just felt I literally got
1:00:27
chilled when she was talking about it, 'cause it was just
1:00:30
'cause when you think about it, it's such like a great period to
1:00:32
put at the end of this entire trilogy, and it's so subtle,
1:00:37
just like in the colors of this costume.
1:00:39
So I just thought that was just master class costuming and that
1:00:44
that would not have been my original choice.
1:00:46
I probably would have said something like Gandalf or any of
1:00:49
the examples of armor Aragorn's armor.
1:00:52
But yeah, I'm team Arwen Foley with this film in particular.
1:00:58
And this one sort of like, what is your problem?
1:01:02
Can you hear that? Yeah, I heard the cat meow this
1:01:05
time. Arwen we get it.
1:01:08
This is a big moment. I.
1:01:09
Know, I know one of the people who created your namesake was
1:01:15
just here, but you slept through it.
1:01:17
So don't try and come in here now and act like you are part of
1:01:22
the conversation. You had your chance, Kitty, and
1:01:25
you blew it. I really was hoping you're
1:01:28
bringing the cat out during the podcast, but I don't know how
1:01:31
Nyla would have. The.
1:01:33
Cat. Here's my cat.
1:01:36
She would have been like, what the fuck?
1:01:39
Well, see? OK, so this is gonna be my thing
1:01:41
if this did. Like, if anyone just, like,
1:01:43
started bothering us, I was gonna be like, this is my cat
1:01:47
Ayoin. She's 17 years old.
1:01:49
I got her as a kid. Jeez, seems.
1:01:53
To be like I named her as a child.
1:01:57
All right, Elizabeth, what was your one costume rule them all?
1:02:00
Spencer Honestly, I could not have a group I I it's the green
1:02:04
dress. I couldn't agree more.
1:02:06
Originally it was Ayoin's armor because.
1:02:11
It's it's a good one. That's probably my second.
1:02:13
Yeah. And it's such a badass moment,
1:02:17
especially you know, The Lord of the Rings.
1:02:20
Like it's a it's a male dominated story.
1:02:23
There's no getting around that. But what I do love about it is
1:02:27
that the women that are in it, they are not passive characters,
1:02:32
especially not Aon. And she comes alive in that
1:02:37
armor, and she does the most. Yeah, she saves the day.
1:02:42
She does. But that green dress, like
1:02:45
talking about it, hearing the story how it how she got to that
1:02:50
place where it was something so full of meaning.
1:02:52
It's just it's perfect and it it kind, it caps off just the story
1:02:58
like the story of everyone but the hobbits.
1:03:01
Like, obviously, like they we get a little bit more of what
1:03:05
they go on to do. But for Aragorn, Arwen, Ayoin,
1:03:11
Legolas, Gimli, like all of them, like it's capped off in
1:03:15
that moment with that green dress, be like, OK, here's the
1:03:17
new beginning. Yeah, this is such a beautiful
1:03:20
way to put it, man. I really like, rocked the whole
1:03:23
world. When Nyla talked about that
1:03:24
dress, I thought she was going, Oh yeah, we picked green
1:03:26
because, you know, elves and they like the forest.
1:03:28
But now she dug that dagger right into my heart and I was
1:03:32
like, oh, looks so good. Oh, good.
1:03:37
Oh, Elizabeth. And that brings us to the end of
1:03:39
this entire season, Season three.
1:03:42
That's a wrap. I know, I know.
1:03:45
It's wild. But if you all want to tell us
1:03:49
what your one costume rule them All was from The Return of the
1:03:52
King, or maybe just throughout the entire season, what were
1:03:55
some of your favorite episodes and costumes?
1:03:59
Leave us a voicemail at 626-515-1826.
1:04:03
Remember, we don't pick up the phone.
1:04:04
It's just a voicemail box, so it just goes directly to a nice
1:04:07
little pile for us to listen to and you can e-mail us at
1:04:11
theartofcostume@gmail.com. And the Art of Costume Podcast
1:04:17
will return January 16th, 2024. In the meantime, we won't be
1:04:26
going away completely. We'll also be on Instagram at
1:04:30
the Arctic Costume Pod on TikTok at the Arctic Costume, It's the
1:04:34
Holidays. If you need a little gift for
1:04:37
your favorite costume nerd or just a little something to keep
1:04:41
you warm in these winter months, you can get some art of costume
1:04:44
merch at the Arctic costume.com/pod Store.
1:04:48
And if you would like to give us a wonderful, very much
1:04:52
appreciated gift this holiday season, please leave us five
1:04:56
star Text review on Apple Podcast.
1:04:59
That would be the gift that just keeps on giving.
1:05:02
Oh yeah, Elizabeth, it has been an absolute pleasure working
1:05:07
alongside you on this season. And a big shout out to Daniel,
1:05:11
our audio engineer who has worked from beginning to end on
1:05:15
all these episodes. A lot of bonus interview
1:05:18
episodes of costume designers. So please, just like a round of
1:05:21
applause for Daniel, We love you.
1:05:23
It won't be possible without you.
1:05:25
It won't be possible without all of you listening.
1:05:27
It has been incredible season and we love you all and we'll be
1:05:30
back in January so I can't wait. Thank you and see you then.
1:05:39
The Art of Costume blog cast is hosted and produced by Elizabeth
1:05:43
Joy Glass and Spencer Williams. Our audio engineering and
1:05:48
editing is done by Dan White. Follow us on Instagram at The
1:05:53
Art of Costume Pod or visit The Art of Costume blogcast.com for
1:05:57
all blog cast updates. If you want to support the show,
1:06:01
go to theartofcostume.com/POD Store.
1:06:06
For more costume reviews, deep dives and interviews, head over
1:06:10
to The Art of costume.com, A blog dedicated to highlighting
1:06:15
the best in costume design. Sorry anyone just gave me a
1:06:39
weird look.