Latest / The LIVing Room with Liv Harrison / The Woman Behind Catholic PR: Faith, Family & Free Will | Kate Sell, Mission Advancement Partners

Transcript

The Woman Behind Catholic PR: Faith, Family & Free Will | Kate Sell, Mission Advancement Partners · The LIVing Room with Liv Harrison

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Rarely does anyone say anything positive about two vocations.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's, are you grieving?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Are you like, hey, this is a big loss for you, isn't it?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: You have two sons that are off in seminary.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, wait, when?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: When did she do that?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that our Lord might choose us to be parents of two priests of God is like beyond anything we could have ever wrapped our brain around.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, We're we're called to take the light of Christ into the world.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, times have changed.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then they had to call and cancel because the other moms didn't want me as the speaker because I wasn't a good role model for their daughters.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had a spiritual director say, you can trust God that He's never gonna ask you to do anything that'll violate your first vocation as wife and mother.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: One son, he was giving a vocation talk, and he said, Growing up, I was told I could be a garbage man if I wanted.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I would be like, listen, I don't care what you do in life.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you do whatever God's called you to do and you fulfill the purpose for which you were born.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: God said, You're gonna move an hour north of Metro Atlanta on the side of the mountain where you don't know anyone, and that's gonna be my will for your family right now.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, friend.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: There were what, 40 of us?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: If even.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: If even.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think you and I spent almost the entire retreat together.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: We did.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: But there were some huge names there.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or and some of them weren't as huge as they are now, but a lot of great people.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was an amazing network.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was it it I'm sorry, not saying that it was, it still is.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: But but there was something special about that time.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: There was something special about those people.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And make it something, and it's I think become a huge ministry for the church.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: When Scent Ventures came out, which, you know, here's the thing.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: As a Catholic, there's a lot of different groups.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you could talk to 50 people and they're gonna be like, oh, are you in this group?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Are you in this group?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, whatever.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: But this Scent was an entrepreneur for entrepreneurs, right?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Which I don't know how if I really fit into the guy.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you were my mentor because we went into we went into the little like little whatever groups.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was great.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And wasn't Rachel?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Who else was in the?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: There were some we may have been the only women there.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Were we?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: That could be fair.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: This was early on.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: He lays the whole thing out.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And admittedly, I was very cynical.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Listen, John, I've been working in the Catholic space for 20 years.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: At that point.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Catholic leaders tend not to play well together.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I said, if you can pull this off, this will be a great gift to the church.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And by golly, he pulled it off.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: He pulled it off.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you have a really generous collaborative group of people who have really built the faith and business and brought them together in a really meaningful way.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it really, yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like such a great impressive.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is impressive.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the networking that's so fantastic, and especially in the line of work that you do, which is you're just people.
• 3:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: What is your work?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: People.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: People are my work.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll let you explain.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: What would how would you explain what it is that you do?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because you do so much.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you work with any Catholic organization, you get behind the curtain, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they hired you for um uh fundraising.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well you get behind the curtain and realize, well, first you're gonna need a strategic plan to figure out really what you do and who you are.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a leadership change and having to help the organization rework itself around a new leader and a new vision.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes, as you know, public relations and marketing, right?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do you raise awareness?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: You might have a great idea, a great board, great funding, but if no one knows you're there, I know, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you're an author, like we want every Catholic out there to know you exist, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And how great your book is.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just kind of a strange hodgepodge of all those things.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: You've done you do them all.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: But we yeah, so you Do you work with individuals and companies?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: You do both, both ands?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: We work with religious orders, universities, apostolates, ministries, dioceses, parishes.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Doing their public relationship, um dioceses, a lot of um it could be strategic planning.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot with a lot with Catholic leadership institutions.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they work a lot of parishes, bishops, diocese.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I think they're some of the best work in the church as well.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, of course.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a privilege just to interface in all those areas.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I always say my vision early on was really the wedding feast at Cana.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, when uh you know Mary shows up and says, Hey, they have no wine, and he's like, So?
• 4:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:49
  unknown: Okay.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me something I don't know.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I am Jesus.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they were confused.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So my sort of inspiration was I envisioned this scene in the back room where these wine stewards show up and be like, Oh, there's this guy out there, and he says, We're gonna fill these with water, and I have no idea what to do.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like our role is just to be in that back room, and we're saying, Okay, God asked you in your mission to fill these jars.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this one's cracked.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: This one, you know, needs a little work.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna help you patch that jar.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna help you create a plan of how you're gonna go out and bring this miracle to life.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I always say we're just the backroom people who help these organizations to fill the mission of which God brought to them and called them to.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love that, but you make it happen in so many beautiful ways.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're just the backroom people.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you're just the backroom people.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is so do you do a lot of interviews, by the way?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is like this is what I set up for other people to do.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I love I love bringing you forward and I love people getting to know you because there's so many things like the Eucharistic Congress, Amazing Parish Conference.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't name some of the big other that you have been the background people for.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we do a lot of public relations with the Augusta Institute.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't say enough about.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've worked in Catholic media and radio for years, is as you know.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: But just a lot of individual ministries and apostolates, um, diocesan work.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was just telling you through the Scanland Foundation, working with a lot of vocation offices.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they all know they need vocations, but a vocation director is not exactly an expert in vocations, actually, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So helping them kind of chart the course, you know, how do you make relationships with young men, all of those sorts of things?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh could be a lot of authors, um about their books, getting them out there, um, just publicizing what they do.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean it's getting the word out.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: We've worked with a lot of organizations and just again, we're the backroom people.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I always say God has a beautiful vision for what he's asked of them.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just there to help them put the pieces in order to go back out into that wedding, right?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Where God's gonna produce the miracle for their work.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and Kate, what's so cool about you is that you have this gorgeous family that is just, I mean, I listen, the little bit I know of them and what you post and the where you live in the mountains of right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Are y'all still up in the in the mountains and you have to like, I don't know, I just I've been don't ruin my dream because I've painted this picture that you just live on a mountaintop and you just profess things and you come down from the mountaintop and you help create all these amazing things.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then while you're off doing that, you have two sons that are off in seminary.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, wait, when?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: When did she do that?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, when did you work on vocations at home?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because you were helping.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, come on, you gotta two.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: That is, I only know one other family who has two.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: That is impressive, my friend.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Not that the other children aren't spectacular, they're just as fabulous, which is wonderful.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: But has your work, you know, like seeped into what you do at home?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Since you do work with vocation, I don't know, it just seems a little on the nose.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and no.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not really sure.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: The interesting thing is, maybe we can get this into the conversation later.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I do travel all over the country and then beyond with the church.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Rarely does anyone say anything positive about two vocations.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's are you grieving?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are you okay?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is a big loss for you, isn't it?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Five children.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband and I are converts.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've been in the church now almost 30 years, and the fact that our Lord might choose us to be parents of two priests of God is like beyond anything we could have ever wrapped our brain around.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then, so those are our oldest two.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then we have a daughter who's at uh University of Alabama who's super strong in her faith.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: God forbid a Baptist crosses her path.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're done.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and our son, who you just met, is a missionary with Damascus.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we just feel very blessed.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have a youngest with some special needs, and he's just the light of everyone's life.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think as converts, people say, What did you do?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think we did anything.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that you just you live whatever God puts in front of you.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we we have no Catholics on either side of our family.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So a conversion when you're 22, 23 years old, just before we get married, that's when it happened.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And saying we're gonna get married in the Catholic Church.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And well, wait, I gotta hear the story.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get to a conversion?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a gentleman named Dr.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Ray Garandi.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've met him.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we hit it off.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, he's fun.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's fun.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: He can banter nanny for his kids.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't know.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: From the time I was like 15 up until I graduated from college and was getting married.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So Ray had been away from the church for 15 years.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: People wouldn't know that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Ray.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's fine.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's doing well.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and his wife sort of discovered the Catholic Church, kind of brought him to a reversion.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a fly on the wall, helping his wife make lunches.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: They homeschooled these 10 kids.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would come over and help with this or that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she was discovering the Catholic Church.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a fly on the wall.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So she would put in, this dates me, uh, a black cassette tape.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's an aware of the version of Scott Hahn.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, amen.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we had that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: She might go to a different room.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, you know, I'll stay here and wash your dishes.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd be listening to that and going, This makes more sense than anything I've ever heard in my life.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really, and then ultimately, probably there were 30 of us in a group over about two years that came in really through Ray and his wife.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we were just graced to be a part of that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: My now husband, he was a fiance at the time, played softball with Ray.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ray's an avid softball player.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's hilarious.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: He had his own relationship with Ray, so he didn't convert because of me, but sort of with me in parallel.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we we got married.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: This was in um early September of '99.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were brand new Catholics.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: We come into the church at Easter.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I hardly knew how to make this.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, no kids.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And someone in our parish says, Hey, you know, if you go to um your diocese, I'm like, what's a diocese?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a number called.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And said, if you call your diocese and tell them you're gonna go to Rome, we were going to Rome on our honeymoon, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, they'll get you special tickets, you could see the Pope.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, that sounds like a nice thing to do.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we get these tickets and we show up at St.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Peter's for a Wednesday audience.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: We need to have any frame of reference of what that was.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we show these tickets to the Swiss Guard and they kept mooshi us this way and then this way.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden we are on the stage with John Paul II.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-uh.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we knew he was John Paul II.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't really know he was John Paul II.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so um we got to go up, he blessed our marriage, and we've been with church like and it was uh just before the Jubilee year of all the Holy Year Basilicas within six months.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: We got a special indulgence from that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we did.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: We went to the Holy Year Basilicas, we got marriage blessed by the city.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And y'all really dove in.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Though I don't think we understood the time, the significance of that.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: We were just like, well, that sounds like a fun thing to do.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Meet the Pope, sure.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're available.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so from there, it was just um, I don't know, whatever our the Lord wanted.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because we've kind of broken from our families, not in a negative way, but we really charted a different course just in being Catholic.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just opened up a freedom for I think the Holy Spirit to come in and say, All right, this is what God has for your life.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did you know even how to parent as a Catholic parent?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was Ray Garundi's nanny for a lot of people.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so back to Ray.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, back to Ray.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love this podcast.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, he was on with Lila Rose, I don't know, six or eight months ago.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And my doctor listened to it, and she's like, Well, now I know where you got it all.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's too funny.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, he's great.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, he's a gym, and Lila's a sweetheart.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's good.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we see in the Catholic world among families, my husband called it, and he has said they're they're pious, but they're not faithful.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't mean that in a judgmental way.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does a holy Catholic family do?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we go to Mass every day, we pray a rosary every day as a family, we homeschool our kids, which are all beautiful, wonderful things.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: But our God just had a different plan for our family.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were very blessed.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: God moved us to Atlanta, um, gosh, almost 20 years ago.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we were exposed to an amazing, very faithful Catholic school there.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And our kids grew up in that community.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's another school there, they went to that as well.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think we were just surrounded by good Catholic, what my kids would say normal Catholic families.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's real.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Faithful, but you go to prom, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, football games and that sort of thing.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they, I think my kids learned um just the importance of the faith in your everyday life.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't pray rosaries every day.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Not that we never prayed a rosary, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I honestly didn't want my kids to hate it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw in other families, all right, eight o'clock, get down, let's pray this rosary.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the kids were like, you know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and we saw that they weren't staying in the faith.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of piety.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Mom thought of seven kids, which is great, dragging seven kids to 7 a.m.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: mass, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: But when they were graduating from high school, they weren't staying in the church.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think with our kids, um, it was a sacrifice to attend the school.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was expensive.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were young, and I remember seeing the first bill.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: We had only two kids, the two oldest at the time, and going, okay, well, I'm gonna have to do something here.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And people will call and say, Hey, we heard you launched this Catholic radio station with Dr.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ray in Ohio.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're in Atlanta.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Could you help us?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you got into it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And literally was like nursing babies on my lap, doing carpool, going, sure, I'll do anything to help.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they would say, Do you do such and such?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking, I don't know how to do that, but I need money for school.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I will Google that and I will figure it out.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: That is amazing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you really just learned by the seat of your pants.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was what the phone would ring, and I think I need five more thousand dollars for school.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like, yeah, I'm gonna go do this.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And wow.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it just started off as um I learned in Catholic radio that they're not really radio stations, they're Catholic nonprofits.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, sister.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have to fundraise, you have to build an audience, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have like it's it's a ministry.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It is a ministry.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Mother Angelica provides free programming, which is wonderful, but everyone has to know it's there, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really just a blessing that I got to cut my teeth in that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then from there, a parish would call and say, Would you do such and such?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, but yes, I do.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do now.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I do now.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh huh, yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then it would be an apostolate and it just sort of built.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I my husband and I joke, if we didn't have at that time the financial need, yeah, I wouldn't have said yes to any of it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would have been like, Really, I'm I'm I'm nursing babies.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I always felt like our Lord saying, you know, no, you you have time for this, you you can do that.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really for I bet a decade just a matter of obedience to to we needed more money for school.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at least but thank you for being honest.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, a lot of people are like, well, I went to do it for the Lord, da da da da.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: But you're saying, like, look, we had a family, and this is what it looked like, and it was a real family, and I had to go work.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we need yes, that's a baby.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: You were my before the age of zoom.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're doing it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And how so how have you dealt as a woman?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think we've talked about this before privately, you know, as friends, but as a woman who works and is faithful, do you get any of that pushback of, you know, the mommy wars and the and the white and the wife wars of yeah, you should be home.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: You travel too much.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So this is where you're accountable first to God and then your husband.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say I'd really never sought to do any of this.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is just what God's asked.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And early on, I had a spiritual director say, you can trust God that He's never gonna ask you to do anything that'll violate your first vocation as wife and mother.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked at me and winked and said, Your ego will tell you differently.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: But he said, if you really can stay grounded and just trust our Lord, it's gonna be okay.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it was, you know, you're leaving travel when the kids were young.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't travel much.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're most all out of the house.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do travel a lot.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, you know, it was here and there, and it was, oh, you're leaving your family again.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was very hurtful at first.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had this was years and years ago, um, someone had invited me to give a talk to, I think it was a young teenage girl group.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then they had to call and cancel because the other moms didn't want me as the speaker because I wasn't a good role model for their daughters.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 17:06
  unknown: Yes.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think through the years you realize, you know what, I'm accountable again first to God and then to my husband.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if the this is what God wants me doing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there have been times where my ego would get in the way and I would do church and I would crash and burn and go, okay, good.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned my lesson, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just take things like I've we've never done any advertising.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just whoever calls, you know, who who Lord needs the skills that our team brings.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we just go with that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you do that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's ebbed and flowed.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but really, it's just been a matter of obedience.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I never set out to do any of this.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking, well, shouldn't I just be home having more kids?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and I was doing that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always worked from home.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Traveled as needed.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say before the age of Zoom, I could iron and do a conference call.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Zoom's kind of put an end to that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta be on and dressed.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, exactly.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: You have to like brush your hair.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't do it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's fair, but yeah, all the things.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: But and then, so I can't, first of all, I'm so sorry those women did that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I can't get over that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was probably good for my humility.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, but that's that's crazy.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is where you and I are different.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would then send pictures of my sons in the seminary to each of these women.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd be like, well, it turned out okay.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but you're a better person than I am.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: So who do you go to spiritually to stay grounded yourself, you know, to keep the ego in check?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any specific either, you know, either here on earth or in heaven, who are your who is your spiritual like?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So my ladies, my ladies.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was converted at Saint Therese, the Little Flower Parish.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So she is the closest to my heart, but she really led me to her mother, Saint Zay.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So Saint Zalie, and she and her husband were the first and only at this point canonized husband and wife, saints.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for our 10-year anniversary, my husband and I had took a little pilgrimage to France on our own, and we were going to see Saint Therese.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And her parents had just been beatified.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we went in the big basilica at Le Joux, and there was almost nothing of Saint Therese but these huge banners of her parents.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I turned to my husband and I said, I think we've come for her parents.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it started this relationship with them, really.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, their writings are just tons of their letters are out there.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they had seven children, uh, four of whom I think died in infancy.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then four boys who die.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: They had a daughter um who died at five years old.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they had, and then I think the five girls, so maybe that's nine that they had.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I mean, all those daughters are saints in their own right.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh Leone, who was the daughter they think may have been autistic, yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, she is up.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think she's venerable or servant of God.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So Saint Zay, at the time, this is the late 1800s, she had a very successful lace making business.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So Alan Saun, where they lived, was known for this special Alan Saun lace, very, very high-profile and delicate craft.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she was one of the best there was.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: She employed all kinds of women.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: She had a nanny in her home who helped with her children.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: She sent them away to boarding school, which was the custom at the time.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: She had a special needs child.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, check, check, check, check, check, check.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: But if you read her letters, she's concerned about her father who has passed away and she has to settle his estate.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: She's concerned about her brother, who was a young pharmacist living in Paris with all the lights of the world.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she consumed herself with the everyday life things that we all do, but at the same time, she was she had breast cancer and didn't know it, so she couldn't nurse any of her children.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So she would send away to these wet nurses, including Saint Therese.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was three little boys, sorry, three little boys who died.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Saint Therese almost died.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um daughter, Helene, who also died.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: She had great suffering at the same time.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yet in her writing, she's only concerned about the souls of other people.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um very devoted to her husband.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: He was right there with her.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: He had a very successful watchmaking business and ended up giving that up to help her run her business.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So she was this rather empowered woman, and then what 50 years later comes um Saint Ida Stein.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So she's one of my ladies, too, who was locked out of everything in her generation because she was a woman and she was Jewish.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Even after she converted, she was still a woman, could not get a full-time professor position.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So she went all over Europe giving talks to women, her letters to women is what came from that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So again, not accepted by the culture necessarily of the church at the time, but you know, was a martyr at Auschwitz.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've been to Auschwitz instead of the platform where she got off, and you realize, you know, God he his will was not that she suffer and die, but he allowed this in her life for the conversion of countless people.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Countless people.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really like, okay, you're accountable to God.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And his path looks very different than what the world says it should be.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think in this sort of overly pious culture sometimes, in what I call the faithful church, it's like, well, good mother does this and this, and those are all good things.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: But in the end, we just did what God asked us to do.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's just who we are.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And our sons, I mean, like I said, I get almost no positive comments about it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe that because I'm like fangirling.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, this is like faithful Catholics who will say this to me.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um it never occurred to me to ask if you were in grief.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought you would be like a double high five to us.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's amazing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think uh and for my husband too, the response is well, first of all, our kids don't belong to us.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're we're just we're just stewards, right?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as a mom, first and foremost, I want my kid to get to have a period.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's all that matters.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And our boys will joke.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: They said this separately uh in different occasions recently, and I kind of forgotten it.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're with our one son, and he was giving like a vocation talk, and I was in the back.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what he was gonna say, and he said, Growing up, I was told I could be a garbage man if I wanted.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was with my other son, and he said the same thing.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because I would be like, All for any of our kids, listen, I don't care what you do in life, as long as you do whatever God's called you to do and you fulfill the purpose for which you were born.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because as a mom, I know that's the only pathway to happiness.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Every parent wants their kid to be happy, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but happiness is only found in God's will.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when they were teenagers, we'd be like, Yeah, buddy, you're actually in free will can go do whatever you want, right?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you're never gonna be happy unless you're doing what God has called you to do.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's putting them in a position to just discern that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Our second son, I think we always kind of suspected.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask if you if you had a few thoughts either one early on, where I'm like, Huh.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Did you say that?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now the older son um was more of a surprise.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: We were thrilled.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: But he dated a lot.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: He had a very serious girlfriend in college.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: We thought they were gonna get married and homeschooled 10 kids.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and then he, uh senior year, um, I went to D he went to Catholic University, and so I went to DC to see him, and we're having dinner, and he said, So uh I broke up with my girlfriend, really, and he said, I really think I want to be a priest.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I I couldn't believe it.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, the second kid had always talked about it, got a baseball scholarship and found girls.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: We went out and we're like, okay.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: They switched.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: They switched.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: He went to Ave Maria for a few years, which was a great experience, but that awakened in him, I think, again, an original call that had been there.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they're they're just being who God's called them to be.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, they could always discern out.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: We again we've always told them free will is a gift of God.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, right?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You want to form it, but I always say God doesn't deal with us in force, right?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, gentleness employs our free will.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would say back to Dr.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ray years ago, um, my one son, he was just in here, we were joking last night.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Yeah, mom, growing up, uh, he said, remember for dinner?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Ray would always say, Listen, don't be a short order cook, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna put it out, yeah, they're gonna eat it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: We tell our kids, well, you don't have to like it, you don't have to eat it, but you can't come back for anything else tonight.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they could choose not to eat in their free will.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're hungry later, they have to suffer that consequence, right?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a fairly benign consequence.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: But we really try growing up, raising the kids to really employ free will in a safe way.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Not everything goes, but yeah, you can choose not to eat your dinner, but you will have a consequence for that.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're gonna have to come to the conclusion on your own that you want to make the better decision.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Our our second son, he'll love me saying this.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: His we I grew up in the Midwest.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: We did chores, we did chores growing up, right?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: We had lots of chores in our house.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Personal responsibility is the big deal.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, our second son, one of his jobs was taken out the trash.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: He put it next to the can, next to the can.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then an animal would show up at night and tear it up and get all over the yard.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: He had to go out and clean it up.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: We would say to him, buddy, if you just put it in the can the first time, you would just save yourself a lot.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then a few years later, he started to do that, you know?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, how funny.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's something in free will that we have to respect.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Free will doesn't mean you have no rules or limits, go do whatever you want.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Free will says you want to desire what God wants for you, and that there's something that comes from it that your soul wants and and and likes, right?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think looking back, I think we just did a lot of that.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: We they'll say that we worked them to death because of COVID.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, we're gonna spring clean this whole house.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, mom, for days we have to help you with the house, you know.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord gave us the time.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord gave us the time, and you were, you know, funny with four of the five out of the house.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Particularly this summer, four of the five are gone.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I mean, I haven't done dishes in years.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So there was like a week my husband and I passed the dishes and finally turned to him and said, Okay, we have to accept that the labor force has moved.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh funny.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not coming back.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: They did what we taught them to do.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to do those dishes.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to mow the lawn.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it just can't get any longer.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta mow the lawn.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is too funny.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, we've gone through a little transition there.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And our youngest does some stuff, but it's like, okay, they're all gone, and I'm gonna have to sweep the vacuum and rug.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and do all the things.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's adorable.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you travel so much and yet you still have time to do the dishes.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I hope my husband does not let you.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Three days they might sit there.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, I hope Nathan is not listening.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: So even when I'm home, yeah, no.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, this is just fascinating because I love that you what you're saying is that it's a both and.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can have traditional values, Catholic traditional values, and you can give the freedom of free will and of the world of that, you know, don't go be of it, but you know, we do live in it.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're gonna have to talk to those people, otherwise, you're just living in a bubble.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend of mine, very close dear friend, and this is about four or five years ago, and we were talking one summer, and she said, um, she was questioning me about my work, you know, what would I do.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've been traveling more.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, you know, she said, um, we've just decided our kids never have to go into the real world.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I go, What do you mean?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, Well, you know, we've homeschooled them all the way through, which listen, I'm a big proponent of homeschooling.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: It just wasn't what our family was called to.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, from there they can go to this certain Catholic college, which we think is a very appropriate, and then from there they can go to grad school, this place.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: She said, but they'll never have to have real jobs like her husband.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her, I said, Well, but uh the scriptures tell us we're to be in the world, but not of it.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Christ was in the world.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I said, We're we're called to take the light of Christ into the world.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And her response, you know, I think she was very sincere.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Times have changed.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: She said that she said times have changed.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: She said, We've got to protect them.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yes, we have to protect them.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, We are called by our baptism to go into the world.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And be the light of Christ.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we always really saw raising our kids as preparing them to go into the world first for Christ, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: That even if they were going to be a priest, think of what a priest hears on confessional, right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: They have to know and understand how the world thinks.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very good point.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: If they're gonna be, um, I think two of our kids would probably be moms and dads.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're gonna go to a grocery store in the world, they're gonna buy a house in the world, they're gonna go to the doctor's office in the world.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't avoid it.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: They have to know, and they have to develop a love for the world.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, our daughter, who was with me in that conversation, she went to this great Catholic school, and as freshmen, they have them light a candle, and there's this special spiral staircase in the school library, and they matriculate up the staircase.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So she went to Harry Potter, like hogs and stuff.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: She kind of did, yes, yes.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Very space for school.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so at the top of the steps, they blow out the candle.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the kids are not allowed to go back down the steps until they graduate and the candle is relit, signifying taking the light of Christ into the world.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So she had been a fly on the wall for this conversation with my friend, and afterwards she said, Mom, that's the opposite of what we're being taught at school.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: She said, in six months, she was a senior at that point, she said, I'm gonna come down that staircase and they're gonna light my candle because I'm supposed to go in the world with the light of Christ.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like she can see in that conversation how off it was, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And she was called to something different because she was a Catholic, and because God had given her beautiful formation and a family and all these things.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, we I first and foremost, these kids belong to God.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: They belong to God.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're not ours.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And God has a particular purpose for each of their lives and their sanctification and happiness is built into that.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: We know many parents that my kid has to be the valedictorian, my kid has to be the best ballerina, they have to do all the travel sports.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: We did a lot of that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: But in the end, I knew that that wasn't their salvation, right?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And really putting them in circumstances where they could encounter Christ.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: As converts, we understand what it means to encounter Christ personally, yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is the really the fulfillment of that relationship with Christ is to be in the church.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we wanted them to discover that on their own, to build their own relationship with Christ.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And from that, we just believe that God would direct them from there.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think I think that's what's happening.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: My husband will say, in spite of us, like, thank you, we didn't mess this up.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's well, no, you're doing phenomenal.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting here, you know, the bad thing about being um the host of a podcast, although I just figured out how I could fix this, is that I wish I was taking notes right now.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm this is like a masterclass in like Catholic parenting.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I could listen to it and write then.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody who's who's listening to this, make sure you have a notebook, which I should have said at the beginning.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um that is it's inspiring because I think a lot of us, the enemy is powerful.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's not more powerful than our God.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: He offers you a lot.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: He does.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he also offers a lot of fear and shame.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he he definitely wants to scare parents and kids into the beautiful world.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Saying times have changed.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fear mentality.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is a fear mentality.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not, it's it's not, and he wants to take that away.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I love I love what you're saying that you know, you can, it is a both and you can do both.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: It is possible.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people need to hear that and hear stories of families that are doing that, you know, that are that are getting that way.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to do it in faith.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: We move from Ohio to Atlanta on total, like God said, move your family to Atlanta.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, you know, send your kids to the school you can't afford.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do this, do that.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we I think our kids have seen that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: We always say, I mean, scripture talks about the Christian life as a sign of contradiction.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like our Lord, it makes sense to do this, it makes no sense to do that.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: But God said to do that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, who am I to live in the mountains because they're in Avenida to St.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Joseph?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: God said, You're gonna move an hour north of Metro Atlanta on the side of the mountain where you don't know anyone, and that's gonna be my will for your family right now.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, okay, we'll put the house up for sale, and within three months, we were living on the side of a mountain.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Which I love.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just love that.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just have all these visions of you just picking wildflowers.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Kate, I gotta ask.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sadly, I can't believe this because you and I could talk forever, which we will.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: We will do, we will have so many conversations off camera.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: But um, one of the things I like to ask all of my guests is how can we pray for you?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: People who are listening right now, where in their prayer life can they support you?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just want the world to know that Christ is the answer.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that sounds very cliche.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I want human happiness for every person.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way in our world at any time, particularly now, to get that is through Christ.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And my mantra, I work a lot of places in the church where sin abounds, grace abounds more.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's St.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Paul.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: We live in very evil times.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: It it undermines the human person, the family, everything we know to be true.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And yet people are suffering more than they've ever suffered.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: The world is not providing those answers.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing countless conversions to the church, right?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is the sign of hope.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was blessed to be a part of the Eucharistic Congress, the planning, and I did all the media, and it was a great blessing.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was a watershed moment in the church.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I applaud the whole staff who worked on that because it was hard to do.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we received graces in the church in America that I believe we will see from years to come.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I am in the beautiful place of getting working with so many organizations to see these bright lights.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are getting better at it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: We are getting nicer to each other, we're getting collaborative.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: When I became a Catholic in 1999, there was a little tiny bookstore in a strip mall that had about 10 things on a shelf.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that existed.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Look at what we have now.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Look at your show, look at the work you have done.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Look at Ascension, Augustine Institute, EWTN, some of the best resources out there.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our Lord's provided everything we need for this time.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: A priest years ago, no, we need to wrap this up, said to me, This was in the early 2000s.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: We all talked about the new evangelization.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're all about the new evangelization, JP2.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You know what?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I don't think it's now.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: He said, the millennial generation was born into a world already upside down.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wrong was right and right was wrong.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: He said, it does not lead to human flourishing and to no fault of their own.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna crash and burn.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the only institution standing with the truth would be the Catholic Church.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I think it's gonna be in 20 years.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he's preparing Catholic leaders now for that.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And in hindsight, I'm like, that's exactly what's happening.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is exactly what's happening.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll pray for that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is the new evangelization now.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Pray for the new evangelization.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Pray for the new evangelization.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Their millennials and our Gen Zs need it terribly.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's I feel like I give my life to that.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I would just, wherever anyone's at in their own little microcosm of the church, yeah, just to be about that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: We can do that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's my prayer.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just pray for souls, pray for people.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're sin abounds, grace abounds more.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to claim that.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: We can't just say it.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: It says not only does grace abound, it amounts more.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: More.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Look at these.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Texas AM had 402 converts come into the church just from their campus ministry.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's the future.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, friend, thank you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, Kate.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: You are just fabulous.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: I could just sit at your feet all day.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like, you know, like Mary and Martha.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't know I need to shower at that point.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love you to pieces.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: You're the best.