Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Androids of Tara (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Androids of Tara (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing.
• 0:35
  Quicker. Quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, a Doctor Who
• 0:41
  commentary podcast. Now those of you listening to
• 0:44
  the previous episode on the androids of Tara might have just
• 0:47
  heard as as the episode was closing, we were, we were just
• 0:50
  chatting about this episode. And then suddenly Joe was was
• 0:54
  taken away on a horse and galloped off into the distance.
• 0:58
  And the, the last I saw of, of, of Joe was he disappeared over
• 1:02
  the Crest of the hill shouting no, no, no, they've got me.
• 1:06
  So it looks like I'm going to be doing the the rest of the
• 1:08
  commentary by myself, but I have dispatched some friends to Leeds
• 1:13
  Castle to see if that's where he's ended up.
• 1:16
  I'll have you know there are three versions of me that you
• 1:19
  have to rescue. OK, Joe, Princess Joe and the
• 1:24
  Android version of Joe. OK, but you look just like Joe.
• 1:27
  So which which one are you? I'm not going to tell you.
• 1:30
  I shall reveal at the end of the episode.
• 1:32
  OK, nice needlework by the way. Thank you, I think this is a
• 1:38
  very atypical episode 4 of a Doctor Who story.
• 1:44
  Very atypical. I think so, Do you not think?
• 1:50
  I'm my head is so much into the into into the the kind of the
• 1:54
  the conventions of the of the swashbuckler that it's exactly,
• 1:57
  it does exactly what I was expected to do.
• 2:00
  Oh, there's this genre, yes, but there's not many Doctor Who
• 2:03
  stories that end with the Doctor desperate to get to the church
• 2:06
  to stop a wedding. No, that is true.
• 2:08
  That is true. And then besting the villain
• 2:11
  with some of the finest swordplay you'll see outside of
• 2:13
  Errol Flynn. Yeah, and, and I personally
• 2:17
  would like to see much more of this kind of thing in Doctor
• 2:20
  Who. Speaking of which, I've
• 2:21
  discovered the Celestial Toy Room season poll result from
• 2:27
  Season 16. Oh, I can only guess.
• 2:31
  So Gordon Blow, who's has written a rather grumpy
• 2:38
  preamble. This is the result of the 197879
• 2:42
  season of Doctor Who. Despite my scathing article in
• 2:45
  Celestial Toy Room on the response from members and the
• 2:47
  extension of the closing date by a month, I still only received a
• 2:51
  total of 414 votes out of the 1000 British members able to
• 2:56
  cast a vote. Little bit like the current
• 3:00
  government, therefore there's. A fellow who does Doctor Who
• 3:03
  polls. You know who gets a bit grumpy
• 3:05
  when his polls don't get a lot of votes too?
• 3:07
  So it's a a common problem. Is it Gordon blow?
• 3:11
  Gordon blown? Gordon blows.
• 3:14
  Anyway, he's very angry. Therefore, this poll kind of.
• 3:16
  People James, it's a pretty. Good turn out.
• 3:19
  Yeah, sorry. And you know, if you, if you
• 3:22
  want more people to vote, Celestial toy room don't don't
• 3:24
  require voter ID. Therefore, this poll cannot be
• 3:28
  counted as a valid viewpoint of the society.
• 3:31
  I hope that the people who have not taken part in this poll will
• 3:33
  not renew their membership when it expires.
• 3:35
  That's. No, it doesn't say.
• 3:37
  It does say that it's this is pure Tory government, isn't it?
• 3:41
  OK, well, I hope that. Of the society Is this a
• 3:43
  fucking? Cult, if you won't vote, we're
• 3:46
  going to destroy society there. See how you like it.
• 3:49
  I think the executive would rather serve 400 active members
• 3:53
  than be bogged down with mailings to 1000 people who
• 3:57
  aren't bothered to do more than pay their Subs.
• 4:00
  That's right, all those all those others were doing was
• 4:03
  paying the money. The lazy bastards, anyway.
• 4:07
  I would never if I read that in the celestial toy room, a rag
• 4:12
  I've never read before in my life.
• 4:14
  I mean, the patronizing tone there.
• 4:16
  I'd never read anymore. But but that's nothing on the
• 4:23
  the the shocking results themselves.
• 4:26
  So voted first with I don't know how the point system work but.
• 4:29
  Stones of blood. Stones of Blood voted 1st called
• 4:32
  1008. 100 traditional Doctor Who monsters, etcetera.
• 4:36
  This is where I get surprising very quickly.
• 4:38
  Voted second with 1867 points. The Armageddon factor.
• 4:45
  Well, yeah, nuclear war. Yeah, it's got all ticks, all
• 4:48
  the boxes. The spaceships, you know?
• 4:50
  Yeah. Voted third with 1737 points.
• 4:54
  The pirate planet, OH. It's sort of big, big ambitious
• 4:57
  ideas. Yeah, I get it.
• 4:59
  But you know, the jokes are coming in now, so I can see
• 5:01
  while we're going down the pole. Voted fourth with 1297 points.
• 5:06
  Still respectable. The Rebus operation.
• 5:09
  OK, yeah, nice fun high story, but we're in the bottom half of
• 5:12
  the list now. Voted 5th with 1155 points.
• 5:17
  The power of Crow. I knew you were going to say
• 5:20
  that. So Power Crow.
• 5:21
  It's got a big monster, I suppose.
• 5:23
  Bear in mind the Stones Blood got 1899 points.
• 5:29
  The worst story of the season with only 869 points is The
• 5:35
  Androids of Tara. What is wrong with you?
• 5:39
  Well. Readers of Celestial Toy Room.
• 5:42
  I can only assume that they've all had a sense of humor bypass.
• 5:46
  I mean given this fella is a representation of the celestial
• 5:49
  toy. Room Yes, I think so.
• 5:50
  May maybe the other 600 members all had a sense of humor and
• 5:53
  therefore decided not to vote for this PO faced rag.
• 5:57
  Could you imagine if I started? You know it sounded like that on
• 6:01
  these hamster commentaries. Welcome to Strictly.
• 6:03
  Well, we only heard from a fraction of our Twitter
• 6:07
  followers this time around, so I wish.
• 6:09
  I wish the rest of you wouldn't even bother listening.
• 6:11
  To we certainly shan't be considering this a true hamster
• 6:15
  representation of opinion. Oh my God, Oh my.
• 6:20
  Frankly, I think the Androids of Tara is wasted on these people.
• 6:23
  Yeah, it would appear so. Well, thank you very much for
• 6:27
  those statistics and especially for that fellas comments,
• 6:30
  because that was very amusing. I feel as if that sort of sense
• 6:34
  of entitlement is still prevalent in fandom as we speak.
• 6:40
  Oh, do you not think Gordon Blow Blows Blown is enjoying the
• 6:43
  current series of Doctor Who? What space babies are.
• 6:47
  Very much out here. No, no, we're very lucky he
• 6:51
  might not be with us anymore. Oh sorry, maybe I shouldn't have
• 6:54
  said that out loud. I suspect he doesn't have many
• 6:56
  members anymore voting on his in his polls.
• 6:59
  The celestial tour unfolded. I wonder if This is why.
• 7:03
  But what is still a delight to ensure is the end of Tower
• 7:08
  episode 4, which we are voting number.
• 7:10
  Well, I mean, do you like doing rankings?
• 7:14
  Yeah, because I'm a Doctor Who fan and that's, that's what we
• 7:17
  do, isn't it? We.
• 7:18
  Would this come top then? This would be absolutely this
• 7:20
  the the glittering gem in the crown of Season 16.
• 7:25
  What would be second then? Because I feel like the the 1st
• 7:27
  4, they're all really strong. I I for me the second is the
• 7:32
  pirate planet. I'm out of step with most fan
• 7:36
  opinion in that I I actually don't think the Stones of Blood
• 7:39
  is entirely great. I think for me, the Pirate
• 7:43
  Planet, then the Rebus operation and then the other three are
• 7:48
  sort of, you know, I feel I enjoy them all, but I wouldn't
• 7:52
  put the Stones of Blood particularly much higher than
• 7:55
  Power of Pro or the other given factor.
• 7:57
  I just think whatever Amelia Rumford's on the screen.
• 8:00
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. To lysage and.
• 8:02
  There's some, there's some, there's some great stuff in
• 8:04
  there. I think the last two episodes
• 8:07
  become a a little bit kind of self defeating or not as fun as
• 8:12
  they. Yeah, not as fun as the first
• 8:14
  two episodes. Well, let's watch a particularly
• 8:19
  strong second-half of the story then, shall we?
• 8:21
  Oh yes, and press play in 54321. You know what we've got more of
• 8:30
  in this episode? Go on.
• 8:33
  The Arkham and writes hat is going to make a return
• 8:35
  appearance. Yes.
• 8:37
  In fact, this is the episode where, you know, he knows that
• 8:42
  things are a fool because Count Grendel literally says, well,
• 8:45
  he's going to marry her, then he's going to die, and then
• 8:48
  you're going to marry me off. And the Archie manager was like,
• 8:52
  oh, OK. This is the more I think about
• 8:55
  it, the more it is basically kind of the same structure as
• 8:57
  Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, which also ends with a an unholy
• 9:00
  matrimony and and A and a a priest figure who knows it's not
• 9:06
  really legit but doing it anyway.
• 9:09
  Unusual about this story is like you said, generally speaking a
• 9:13
  lot of the location work in 70s Doctor Who is in the first
• 9:16
  episode. This has location work spread.
• 9:19
  From it's got some lovely location work, hasn't it And and
• 9:22
  they and a great night shoot. And night shoot, which is very
• 9:25
  expensive. Is that the dummy now or is that
• 9:31
  the actor? That's, Oh no, that's the actor
• 9:34
  they put, they put him back in. That's very good, isn't it?
• 9:38
  I was going to say, that's a very detailed dummy.
• 9:40
  I I think that Michael Hayes really sells the idea that these
• 9:44
  androids look like the the people they're meant to be.
• 9:48
  It's very rare that you get a shot of the face and go that
• 9:51
  looks like a dummy. Well, the whenever they do cut
• 9:54
  through an Android version in Android atar Android atar
• 9:58
  Android. In fact, there's so many Android
• 9:59
  stories, Android invasion, they've always got those sort of
• 10:02
  goggly sticking out. Eyes haven't.
• 10:04
  They Yeah, yeah. He's so smug.
• 10:10
  But I knew you couldn't live without her, Your Majesty, so I
• 10:14
  brought her back for you. Oh.
• 10:18
  That's really most unfair, my dear.
• 10:19
  I'm really quite hurt. I think that.
• 10:23
  I think that Peter Jeffrey has subtly dialed down the charm and
• 10:27
  up the sarcasm in in these latest scenes as well.
• 10:31
  It's just the episode where he goes, oh, don't be so tediously.
• 10:35
  Heroic. Rendell does not joke about
• 10:41
  political no, no, But he does tell everybody what he's going
• 10:44
  to do, which is handy because it's quite a complicated story.
• 10:50
  Well, fortunately, Prince Reinhart is also on hand to to
• 10:55
  explain the plot. Oh, Ramona.
• 10:58
  Yeah. So this is what he's going to
• 10:59
  do. He's going to marry me off to
• 11:00
  you, then he's going to kill me. You'll be a widow, and then he's
• 11:03
  going to marry you. All right.
• 11:07
  It's a good plot. I'm not sure I could see Lala
• 11:10
  Ward in this story, you know? No, I can't.
• 11:14
  Certainly can't see well. I can't see Leader in this
• 11:16
  story. Maybe Sarah Jane, but it feels
• 11:18
  like they're really writing for the character.
• 11:20
  Oh no, he's not wearing his hat. Oh, it's only for ceremonial
• 11:24
  occasions. Has he got his ear flaps though?
• 11:26
  He's my ear. Yes he has, though my hat theory
• 11:28
  stands up. I knew there was a reason for
• 11:30
  that. He was in bed with his with his
• 11:32
  skull cap. He hasn't put his the rest of
• 11:35
  his hat on. Your own chaplain could have
• 11:38
  done that. Who is to be married?
• 11:41
  You're right. Actually, I think this is
• 11:43
  probably Cyril Shaps his best performance.
• 11:45
  Oh, definitely, definitely. Well, it's because he's not.
• 11:48
  For once, he's not that person going oh God, what is this
• 11:51
  ghastly place? Yeah, although he's he plays a
• 11:54
  coward again. He just plays, I mean, this is
• 11:57
  this is oh, dear, dear, dear, dear.
• 11:59
  He did not look well at the current.
• 12:00
  He he, he plays someone deliberately turning a blind
• 12:05
  eye. And this is this is brilliant.
• 12:07
  The fact that Cal Grendel tells him exactly what's going to
• 12:12
  happen. He he spells out the entire plot
• 12:15
  and and I just stands like, oh, dear, dear, yes, oh, a second
• 12:20
  wedding. Oh, oh, yes.
• 12:21
  But I mean, he knows exactly what's happening.
• 12:25
  My own I should be marrying, marrying the poor King's widow.
• 12:28
  And also, we know, we know he's going to be toppled by the end
• 12:36
  of the end of the story, but kind of like I've got a secret
• 12:40
  wish that I want him to succeed just because I like him so much.
• 12:44
  He's very hearts and. Very pleased he's not killed at
• 12:48
  the end and he gets to leave with that great part in line.
• 12:51
  Again, it's just every episode slightly UPS the ante.
• 12:54
  I I don't understand. I don't understand the Celestial
• 12:57
  Toy Room readers who don't think the stakes are high in this.
• 13:02
  I don't think it's exclusive, just the readers of the
• 13:04
  Celestial Toy Room. I don't think so, but I think
• 13:06
  they epitomize a particular view which I like.
• 13:09
  Haven't got any time for. I'm fairly certain the Doctor
• 13:12
  Appreciation Society probably had a lot to say at the time as
• 13:15
  well. So I think so.
• 13:18
  That's it. He looks at all the cells now,
• 13:20
  doesn't he? He looks at Ramana with him.
• 13:21
  Then he looks at Striller. Paul, Mary's having to do a lot
• 13:24
  of work here. I love what he says and I love
• 13:32
  as well. You know when they have the
• 13:33
  sword fight in the in the main castle set?
• 13:36
  Yes, it's got a sense of scale, hasn't it?
• 13:41
  It almost looks like a real castle set.
• 13:43
  The only I mean, you can tell when they're in the real castle
• 13:46
  because it goes on to film, but they they, they match really
• 13:49
  well. But there's a wonderful bit
• 13:52
  where they're sword fighting outside down this huge long dark
• 13:56
  passage, and you can just sort of see them in silhouette.
• 14:00
  Merry Time is giving this some real kind of Shakespeare
• 14:02
  intensity now. There are no circumstances under
• 14:06
  which I would ever marry you. How did I do?
• 14:10
  Very, very good. Thank you.
• 14:12
  But you could see her giving this performance in measure for
• 14:14
  measure or something. It's got that.
• 14:16
  It's got that restrained fury. I think it's a fine performance.
• 14:22
  And you just buy her as a Princess because she already
• 14:24
  looks like 1. A dispensable Princess.
• 14:29
  Did you see the way you saw? It's his story now, I mean.
• 14:37
  He does have a bit of contained rage though, doesn't he?
• 14:39
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it's a 2
• 14:42
  dimensional villain at all. It's lovely how it just goes
• 14:49
  into every cell doesn't. It yeah.
• 14:52
  And I do like as well how he how he takes a moment to kind of
• 14:56
  gather himself in the corridor outside, Like how, how am I
• 14:59
  going to walk into this room? Just as long as he has enough
• 15:03
  stroke for the ceremony. Oh, he does.
• 15:06
  Look. Look how he looks.
• 15:07
  Really poor, he looks. Really, really I'll.
• 15:14
  That's it. Threatened the Princess.
• 15:16
  That's the real last story here. He's another actor with, I don't
• 15:19
  know what else Neville Jason did, but he's got a face that
• 15:22
  looks like it's come straight out of a a 1930s silent
• 15:27
  swashbuckler, doesn't he? He's on.
• 15:29
  He's on the documentary for this right?
• 15:31
  And he still looks like a Prince to this day.
• 15:34
  Whenever they shot, yes, yeah. Yeah, he's got like a cravat on
• 15:38
  or something like that, and he talks very affectionately about
• 15:42
  this. I got to play myself.
• 15:45
  I got to play, you know, evil Android versions of me.
• 15:49
  What a marvelous thing for an actor to do.
• 15:54
  Go on Ramana, give him some, because if you refuse, the
• 15:59
  Princess will die very slowly. See, he's not hiding anymore.
• 16:06
  See this, this, there is a characters in this story go on a
• 16:11
  journey. It's not, it's, it's not vacuous
• 16:15
  at all. There's it's a, it's a really
• 16:18
  nice piece of writing. What's great about it though, is
• 16:20
  like like a great movie. The the villains plans all come
• 16:25
  to pass, you know, right at the end and it looks like he's going
• 16:28
  to get his own way. And then the doctor steps in and
• 16:30
  just goes no, no she won't. And then you know it's going to.
• 16:34
  Be all right. That whole sequence was a was
• 16:37
  about 5 minutes. How many Doctor Who villains get
• 16:40
  5 minutes of screen time in the final episode?
• 16:43
  And well earned as well. That's, that's not the casting,
• 16:46
  is it? That's the script, yeah.
• 16:47
  Yeah, yeah. And and it and it and it's
• 16:49
  earned by the script. But I mean, then, you know, you
• 16:52
  give that to an actor like Peter Jeffrey, he's going to run with
• 16:54
  it. I think the way they've lit, I
• 16:57
  mean, as I said earlier, Leeds Castle is not a big castle and
• 17:01
  they've somehow made it look absolutely ginormous in these
• 17:04
  shots. That's what it's underlit there,
• 17:06
  isn't it? It's very effective.
• 17:09
  And then he gets to go sort of under this passage, doesn't he,
• 17:12
  inside the castle. So they're storming it from
• 17:18
  above and below. But like this has got a night
• 17:22
  shoot. Power of Crow's got a night
• 17:23
  shoot in it. They do day for night in Stones
• 17:26
  of blood. I should just.
• 17:28
  This has got a night shoot with with water involved as well.
• 17:31
  I mean, all that stuff in the Moat is and they actually kind
• 17:34
  of go under the, you know, into the the tunnels underneath Leeds
• 17:39
  Castle. That's a big, you know,
• 17:41
  complicated shoot. Everything ready?
• 17:44
  Almost master. Look at the the set lighting
• 17:49
  though as well. It this, the, the fact that it's
• 17:52
  all taking place at night is really sold and it and it makes
• 17:57
  these studio sets look so good. Oh, the hat.
• 18:02
  The hat's back so suddenly we're no longer paying attention to
• 18:06
  the. Set Never mind the Andros Atara,
• 18:08
  it's all about the hat. All about the hat.
• 18:10
  I think there's only one other hat in Doctor Who really that
• 18:13
  could get as much attention, and that is Liz Shaw's fabulous hat
• 18:16
  in Ambassadors Of. Death.
• 18:18
  Liz Shaw's ambassador's hat, Maybe Patrick Trousen's.
• 18:22
  Over the stone. Stovepipe.
• 18:23
  Yeah, those three hats in a fight, I'm not sure who would
• 18:28
  who would come out top. I suppose I should point out at
• 18:30
  this point that the the line that inspired the title of this
• 18:34
  podcast. Coming up to be should we have
• 18:36
  champagne ready to pop open? It.
• 18:40
  Was different. Guys are really having to work
• 18:42
  there because the the boats moving around, they can't get
• 18:45
  the effect to stay still. That kind of thing used to drive
• 18:47
  me up the wall when I was younger.
• 18:48
  I'd be watching the effect going No, it doesn't work quite.
• 18:52
  It looks a little bit like a special effect.
• 18:54
  The one that enraged me was an invisible enemy when they've
• 18:58
  clearly lost that wall off the wall, get back on again.
• 19:03
  The gap in the wall. They fixed that special edition,
• 19:05
  haven't they? No member of my family can
• 19:07
  possibly walk in while I'm watching this.
• 19:10
  I think there are other reasons why the invisible enemy is not
• 19:13
  is not the one to show your family.
• 19:15
  I I love the church bells that are ringing in this.
• 19:18
  It's really good, and it's a, it's a synthesized sound.
• 19:21
  I think they're not real. Bells, it sounds like it's.
• 19:23
  Humps with a Blum pen knife all stand.
• 19:26
  Thank you. Raise your glasses.
• 19:30
  Do hurry up, canine. But there's something.
• 19:33
  Thank goodness you didn't call your podcast a ham fisted bun
• 19:35
  fend. Welcome back to a ham fisted bun
• 19:40
  bend though. My name is Joan.
• 19:44
  I'm going to make it work. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 19:47
  Oh, and you know what? We get this protracted scene now
• 19:50
  where they walk along all the corridors, don't they, to where
• 19:53
  the wedding is going to take place.
• 19:54
  So there's a sense of sort of momentum.
• 19:56
  There's a sense of momentum and here's Here's another potential
• 20:01
  coronation track that would have been better than the Andrew
• 20:04
  Lloyd Webber anthem. They could have used this for
• 20:09
  the for the instead of Zaydak the priest or.
• 20:12
  Andrew Lloyd Webber Yeah, I love anything that shot down there
• 20:18
  all in silhouette like this. That's that's a that shot looks
• 20:23
  a billion dollars. What more could you want from an
• 20:26
  episode of Doctor Who? I I just feel like all the, the,
• 20:30
  the church bells ring. It's really atmospheric and
• 20:34
  it's. Reminding to scale, doesn't it?
• 20:35
  Yeah. And yeah, yeah.
• 20:37
  It's reminding you what the tops is there to stop.
• 20:40
  I say he's in. I really got the sense that K9
• 20:43
  did have to burn through a massive wooden door there that
• 20:46
  that was a that wasn't like the summer house.
• 20:52
  Oh, James, this is so glorious. I just love it.
• 20:55
  I love the fact the doctors there to stop a wedding, not to
• 21:00
  save the universe for once you know and.
• 21:02
  To stop a wedding, yeah. And now he just sort is in so
• 21:07
  confident in a minute. Are you sure like?
• 21:11
  He's supposed to be serious. So go on.
• 21:14
  Well, just how seriously they're all taking it.
• 21:16
  I mean, he's talking to a dog in a boat and he's going to stop a
• 21:19
  wedding. But it's, but it's still I think
• 21:21
  in terms of dramatic stakes, I don't know that there's anything
• 21:27
  in the key to time to top this. Those sets were really tall as
• 21:33
  well. They look huge.
• 21:35
  Yeah, obviously those pillars were going up to nothing, right,
• 21:37
  Because it was just a lighting grid above.
• 21:39
  But. They're big.
• 21:41
  They're they're because he, because that's a low angle.
• 21:43
  And there's almost like a moonlight effect, isn't there in
• 21:46
  there? I think he's gone.
• 21:48
  What's the What's the best possible angle for the
• 21:50
  Archimandrite's hat? Star of the show, you know.
• 21:55
  Even. When the sword fight starts in a
• 21:58
  minute, I'm still looking at the hat.
• 22:00
  This is great as well. Michael Hay does lots of
• 22:02
  reaction shots, yes. What's?
• 22:04
  Going on Oh, this is wonderful as well.
• 22:08
  The Doctor finds the key, and then later on he goes to Ramana.
• 22:11
  Well, what about the key? Even though he knows exactly
• 22:13
  where it was? Who's the the Brendel's?
• 22:17
  Randall's man? There is.
• 22:18
  Is it Kirsta? Yeah.
• 22:21
  He doesn't have much to say, but he's quite a a presence really,
• 22:24
  isn't he? Quite a threatening.
• 22:27
  That bit's coming up in a minute.
• 22:28
  I was telling you about when he goes into Strela's cell.
• 22:31
  Oh, yes, yes, yes. That's just knows what reason.
• 22:35
  Right. So in the prisoner's ender, the
• 22:38
  problem they have is they know where the, the, the king is
• 22:42
  being kept prisoner, or rather the Prince who hasn't, not the
• 22:47
  king because he wasn't at the coronation.
• 22:49
  They know that he's prisoner, but he's kept in a double room
• 22:54
  arrangement with two people guarding him.
• 22:56
  And they, they discover that the arrangement is that when, what
• 23:03
  whatever happens, whatever is initiated, if they are attacked,
• 23:07
  one person will go to deal with it.
• 23:08
  And there is a signal, which means there will always be one
• 23:10
  person waiting with the king to, to given the chop should it go
• 23:15
  wrong. So, so they are prevented from
• 23:18
  attacking or doing anything about the situation because the,
• 23:21
  if they make a wrong move, it's a sort of watertight scheme to
• 23:24
  make sure there's always one person to knock off the king and
• 23:27
  Chuck his body in the Moat. And they've, and they've worked
• 23:30
  out a way of disposing his body. So he's so curse is playing that
• 23:34
  role there. He's doing the the job of that
• 23:38
  character. It's so weird because I've I've
• 23:41
  never read The Prisoner of Send and yeah, this does all feel
• 23:45
  custom built for a Doctor Who story.
• 23:47
  Yeah. Of of of the romantic kind.
• 23:51
  Man this sword fight is so wonderful.
• 23:53
  This is the best sword. Fight.
• 23:54
  There's no even the Sea Devil sword fight doesn't.
• 23:57
  Doesn't even the Christmas invasion, which I do.
• 24:00
  Love that sword fight as well. Even Battlefield, which is a
• 24:05
  hell no no no no no. I will not hear a word against
• 24:09
  Battlefield. I know, but this wouldn't be
• 24:12
  improved by having disco music kicked over.
• 24:15
  Well, on the music, I think it's worth pointing out actually
• 24:19
  Dudley Simpson's restraint here. There are many a Doctor Who
• 24:23
  composer would be pumping under score into this scene.
• 24:27
  It's not until they're outside, is it?
• 24:29
  Right. Dudley Simpson realizes that
• 24:31
  there is a way of building tension with silence and the
• 24:34
  clicking of the swords and the gaps at this point, because
• 24:37
  because it hasn't got got up to kind of full rhythm yet, are far
• 24:40
  more effective than any kind of under score would be.
• 24:43
  So I mean, bravo Dudley Simpson, who's written a cracking score
• 24:46
  for this, but also knows where not to put music.
• 24:49
  There are some other Doctor Who composers could learn from that.
• 24:53
  Look at that POV shot the the the sword clanking against count
• 24:58
  the count as he's going backwards.
• 25:00
  That's great. I love the bit where the Doctor
• 25:03
  puts the sword up and then turns his back and the count smacks
• 25:06
  his arse with the sword. It's really funny.
• 25:10
  Now, I think Tom Baker of season 14 would have taken the scarf
• 25:14
  off by now. And I really love that in, in
• 25:16
  this season, the doctors that that scarf, which, you know, it
• 25:22
  doesn't make a lot of sense and you know, as a as a costume
• 25:24
  item, if you're taking it literally.
• 25:26
  But as in this format where the doctor is this, you know,
• 25:30
  wizardly other other otherworldly being, it makes
• 25:33
  total sense that he would fence with a scarf.
• 25:35
  And, and the scarf is clearly in the way and he's working really
• 25:38
  hard to keep the scarf out of the way of his sword.
• 25:41
  I. Think he he knows that kids love
• 25:43
  the scarf and that they'll get a kick out of him having a sword
• 25:46
  fire with a scarf on. I just.
• 25:50
  Think as well. Declan Declan.
• 25:51
  Declan Mulholland's reactions to the sword fight are hilarious.
• 25:55
  Well, we've come to Ramana a couple of times as well, but
• 25:57
  now. She's Yeah.
• 25:58
  Well, so we've we've got no, he's he's doing a very clever
• 26:01
  thing because he's showing people.
• 26:02
  I mean, the movement in this fight is beautifully
• 26:05
  choreographed, but it's partly the movement of other people
• 26:08
  around them, the fact they're now moving the prints and that
• 26:12
  there went Mulholland trying to move and he's he's taken out.
• 26:15
  Ramana's heading after 1st that, you know, it's, it's not just
• 26:21
  about the fight, it's obviously mostly about the Archimandra.
• 26:24
  It's that. But apart from that, it's about
• 26:26
  all these other, you know, every character in the scene is part
• 26:29
  of this carefully choreographed sequence.
• 26:32
  So we're following the Prince now?
• 26:34
  The Archimandra is watching very carefully.
• 26:37
  Whoever wins this, I've got a toady up to the winner, Ashley.
• 26:42
  And what you said about Ramon Rabbing Agency earlier, you know
• 26:45
  she's off now to rescue the Princess.
• 26:47
  Yeah. Oh, this is that wonderful bit.
• 26:49
  The feller who plays the guards, he was given the direction he
• 26:52
  goes. Look, there's only four of you,
• 26:54
  but I need you to act as if there's a whole army of you.
• 26:57
  But the people that live here are actually asleep up there.
• 27:01
  So you need to do it very quietly indeed.
• 27:04
  Under those conditions. I think they do.
• 27:06
  They've done pretty well. It's a great shot though, isn't
• 27:08
  it? Look at that.
• 27:11
  Love a bit of mist as well. And we've got some music now.
• 27:15
  I I I can actually hear the music even though.
• 27:17
  Yeah, well, so, so suddenly it's gone full drama, but that's
• 27:19
  that, you know? Exactly.
• 27:20
  So if you're going to keep a sword fight going for this
• 27:23
  length of time, you you've got to build, are you?
• 27:27
  A big fan of Dudley's. Yeah, I am a big fan of
• 27:30
  Dudley's, but I think that inevitably when a composer does
• 27:33
  as many stories as he did, they do sometimes get say me.
• 27:40
  And this is one of his really distinctive scores.
• 27:42
  You know, I think I think there are a few stand out scores where
• 27:46
  you kind of go up. That's Android Zatara.
• 27:48
  That's that's the doctrine. Ramana running through the
• 27:54
  streets of Paris. You know, there are certain
• 27:56
  things that immediately find, you know, you hear the the the
• 28:00
  track and the image comes up. Whereas I would, I think, you
• 28:03
  know, I would struggle to differentiates, I don't know
• 28:07
  the, the score for the sun makers from the score from
• 28:10
  Planet of Evil. You know, I, I think there are
• 28:12
  certain kind of hues that just have a kind of slightly samey
• 28:15
  feel. I think his other really
• 28:16
  memorable score this year is the Rebus operational.
• 28:19
  It's a good score, Yeah, it's a very good score.
• 28:21
  But I think you're right that he's on fire this this season.
• 28:23
  I think. I think he he he actually finds
• 28:26
  6 quite distinct flavours because the Pirate Planet has
• 28:29
  got some lovely stuff on it too. Wow, stones are blood too.
• 28:32
  When? He's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:33
  Yeah, Stair. Fights, stair fights.
• 28:37
  It's the ultimate, the climactic moment of any sword fights.
• 28:40
  Stairs. This sword fight has been going
• 28:41
  on now for about 5 minutes. I mean, you can't say you don't.
• 28:46
  You don't get what you know you have bang for you buck.
• 28:49
  And the music comes down. And that's also very clever
• 28:52
  because actually the, the, the, the fight is over now there's
• 28:55
  nothing left for him to fight for because the battle has been
• 28:57
  won. And Tom Baker assistations.
• 29:00
  As well he went listen, they're coming for you.
• 29:03
  You know, I love it when he drops all the all the comedy and
• 29:08
  gets really serious. We're a crock.
• 29:11
  We never surrender. Go on, say the line.
• 29:16
  Next time I shall not be so lenient.
• 29:20
  He gets a comedy sting, doesn't he, as he goes in the water.
• 29:24
  Does he does? That's a lovely shot as well.
• 29:27
  Makes Lee Lee's castle look gigantic.
• 29:30
  You forgot your hat. Oh, maybe we should have just
• 29:36
  seen the fall, but not even swimming away.
• 29:39
  I don't know because yeah, but I think they they have to deflate
• 29:43
  his pomposity. The Doctor gets.
• 29:44
  To do well, it means someone genuinely went in the.
• 29:46
  Water as well. Oh yeah, it's a good dive as
• 29:49
  well. I mean, the dive is is he almost
• 29:52
  maintains his dignity, doesn't he?
• 29:54
  Oh, that affect shots coming up now see if you can see the joint
• 29:57
  in the cell when the doctor goes to rescue Princess Trella and
• 30:00
  then realizes that Roman has already done it, he's got a
• 30:06
  Presley engagement on the other what's.
• 30:07
  Happened to the Arthur Mandrite. I feel like he never gets his
• 30:10
  his just desserts. He ought to get his, his hat
• 30:12
  ought to be ceremony taken away from him.
• 30:16
  What happened to that hat, I wonder?
• 30:18
  And did it turn up in other period dramas?
• 30:21
  Does anyone ever cosplay as the Archimandra?
• 30:24
  Look where's the join. I mean, there's, there's,
• 30:27
  there's some useful shadow there, but Even so.
• 30:29
  And and she's very convincingly talking to to to her other self.
• 30:35
  I do like the fact that the guard was knocked out by a
• 30:37
  painting as well. I'm not sure how that is, but
• 30:41
  it's very funny. Oh, the doctor goes in like a
• 30:44
  hero, doesn't he? Like, oh, oh, it's already been
• 30:46
  sorted out. OK, see, that's great.
• 30:53
  You've got Princess Strela. So Mary Sam looking a bit
• 30:56
  tentative about the doctor. And then we cut some Romana,
• 30:59
  who's like, I'm Romana. Really nicely played.
• 31:05
  And again, she ran out through the door there, that cut.
• 31:07
  That must have been a double. Kissing and Doctor Who, what is
• 31:12
  going on? I feel like we're invested in
• 31:17
  that relationship, yeah. Totally.
• 31:19
  Oh, this is great. She's panicked looking for the
• 31:23
  segment and he's some sort of with.
• 31:27
  You were very careless. Ah ah, this story was never
• 31:32
  about this. Very funny, she says.
• 31:39
  Oh, and I love the parting gag. What about K9K9?
• 31:48
  I think it's I think it's absolutely sensible that that
• 31:51
  the key to time is just slightly sidelined in this story.
• 31:54
  If you're going to have your kind of mid season romp you
• 31:56
  don't want it bogged down in. But there's enough reminders of
• 32:00
  its existence for Out master. Master K9.
• 32:10
  Oh, let's. See, it's joyous, isn't it?
• 32:12
  It's gorgeous. I mean you wouldn't want every
• 32:17
  Doctor Who to win it's but as a one off it's just gorgeous.
• 32:23
  And look at Tom Baker laughing his head.
• 32:25
  Off. He's really enjoying that, isn't
• 32:27
  he? James, I love it.
• 32:29
  It's such a good story. It's such a good story.
• 32:32
  If you voted in that celestial toy maker, shame on you.
• 32:38
  Even more shame than the ones who didn't vote.
• 32:41
  I hope you all really hated space babies as well.
• 32:45
  I think, I think, I think that that might be that kind of fan.
• 32:50
  Well James, now you know what comes.
• 32:52
  Now we need to choose your free fabulous things as to recommend
• 32:55
  the Andrews of Tara to all of the readers of the Celestial Toy
• 32:59
  Room to go and watch it immediately.
• 33:07
  Good to have the Archimandra's hat.
• 33:10
  Yeah, of course you can I. Totally am having the
• 33:12
  Archimandra's hat. I mean, I think it's, it's
• 33:14
  symbolic of a, a broader thing, which is that I think the
• 33:17
  costume design is, is really beautiful.
• 33:19
  I think the design all round is is really good, and Graham
• 33:23
  Williams sometimes gets stick for not being good at design.
• 33:28
  I think that story looks far more expensive than it was.
• 33:33
  It's a really handsome thing. But yeah, the hat.
• 33:36
  The Archimandra's hat. If you hadn't have taken that, I
• 33:39
  would have done so. I want to compliment as my first
• 33:43
  thing what I think is one of the most effective location shoots
• 33:48
  ever in classic Doctor Who. They struck gold with the
• 33:52
  weather. It's in beautiful scenery.
• 33:55
  Like, you know when you go to Leeds Castle and along that sort
• 34:00
  of riverbank there, it's just the most stunningly beautiful
• 34:04
  place, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, if you haven't
• 34:06
  been, go to Leeds Castle. It's one of the Doctor Who
• 34:09
  locations that lives up to it, what it looks like on screen.
• 34:13
  I mean, it's a bit smaller in real life and, and you realize
• 34:16
  how cleverly filmed it is, but it's on a dappled sunny day.
• 34:21
  It's a, it's a, it's a delight. Against some stiff competition
• 34:25
  from other stories, Silver, Nemesis and things like that.
• 34:27
  This is the ultimate Doctor Who summer holiday story.
• 34:31
  And so yeah, that that's my first reason.
• 34:34
  Back to you. My second reason is going to be
• 34:39
  the sword fight. I think a sword fight is a much
• 34:45
  more satisfying way of ending a story than an explosion.
• 34:49
  And I think Doctor Who doesn't do it nearly often enough, I
• 34:53
  think to actually have kind of sword play, you know, because
• 34:58
  and, and, and sword fighting works on screen because it's
• 35:01
  closer to dancing than any other form of fighting.
• 35:05
  I suppose, you know, aficionados of, of wrestling will probably
• 35:10
  kind of take me up on that, but I, I, there's something very
• 35:13
  kind of elegant about swordfight.
• 35:14
  I'm not saying anything new there.
• 35:16
  It's, there's a reason why so many kind of big budget films
• 35:21
  have have trod this path as well.
• 35:25
  I just think it's very unusual in Doctor Who to see a sword
• 35:28
  fight that is quite so carefully choreographed as this.
• 35:32
  And as we were saying, it's not just about the two people who
• 35:35
  are fighting. It's about all of the characters
• 35:36
  in the room and what's going on around them.
• 35:38
  I think it's, I think it's one of the one of my real punch the
• 35:42
  air Doctor Who moments. I think Michael Hayes knows that
• 35:46
  is the big set piece of the story and goes to town on it.
• 35:49
  There's a lovely high ankle shot of them fighting.
• 35:52
  There's those POV shots where you can actually you're seeing
• 35:55
  from the sword's point of view as it's going towards the doctor
• 35:59
  in the count. Just gorgeous.
• 36:02
  My second reason is going to be giving Mary Tam lots to do.
• 36:07
  And I realized that there is a lot of her being captured in
• 36:11
  this and chained up and all those things that she's used to.
• 36:14
  But she also manages to find the key to time in record time at
• 36:19
  the start of the story because she's so competent.
• 36:21
  She manages to escape and get away on that horse, which is
• 36:24
  wonderful. And she's the one that goes down
• 36:27
  into the cell at the end of the story and saves the Princess
• 36:30
  from the evil guard. So yeah, just living up, giving
• 36:36
  Mary Tam some stuff to live up to that promise that she got of
• 36:39
  being like a Co lead, giving her so much screen time.
• 36:42
  I'm just letting her have fun. You know, sometimes she can be
• 36:45
  written just horsey, but here she's having fun.
• 36:48
  So yeah, lots of Mary Tam is my second thing.
• 36:51
  Well, since you've mentioned cast, I'm going to as my third
• 36:55
  thing. I'm going to go for the, the,
• 36:57
  the the rest of the cast, the the not regulars.
• 37:03
  As we as we said, I think Tom Bacon, Marytown and John Leeson
• 37:06
  are a great team. But this is a car.
• 37:09
  I mean, it's a very small cast. It's a real chamber piece.
• 37:13
  And you could give this cast any Shakespeare play and they would
• 37:17
  absolutely knock it out of the park.
• 37:20
  It's a really fine cast and they are so well chosen for the
• 37:25
  archetypes they play, partly for the way they play them, partly
• 37:28
  just because their faces look right.
• 37:31
  I think Peter Jeffrey is, is one of the great Doctor Who
• 37:33
  villains. They've got loads of time for,
• 37:39
  you know, Neville. Jason is is, is that the
• 37:43
  handsome Prince he needs to be. Madame Lamia is a really
• 37:48
  interesting character, really well played in a story full of
• 37:52
  kind of big performances vying for attention.
• 37:56
  Her stillness and quietness really draws the eye as Lois
• 38:00
  Baxter, absolutely phenomenal. And anything with Declan
• 38:06
  Mulholland shambling around is is great fun.
• 38:08
  And Cyril shops and his magnificent hat.
• 38:12
  So, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a flawless cast.
• 38:17
  Well, my last thing then is going to be just how
• 38:21
  untraditional that last episode is.
• 38:25
  I like the fact that that the big climax of the story is the
• 38:28
  Doctor stopping a wedding. I think that's glorious.
• 38:32
  But also as well, I just want to highlight the wit that runs
• 38:36
  through this, the the sort of subtle humour that runs through
• 38:39
  the entire story. Oh hang on, excuse me, I've
• 38:45
  managed to last two episodes about having a coffee in fit.
• 38:48
  I will edit this bit out. If you weren't podcasting from
• 38:52
  that from that prison cell, this wouldn't be happening.
• 38:56
  We need. To stay some sort of rescue
• 38:57
  I've. Caught system tree from the
• 39:00
  cell. This is a very funny season of
• 39:03
  Doctor Who, and this is an extremely funny story.
• 39:07
  I mean, it's just glorious, isn't it?
• 39:09
  The whole thing? It is just sunny, light, frothy
• 39:15
  and a pleasure to watch. Couldn't agree more.
• 39:20
  James, where are we going next? We're going to we're going to
• 39:25
  New Year's Eve. We are.
• 39:27
  We're going, we're venturing a warehouse.
• 39:29
  We are. We're venturing outside of my
• 39:31
  comfort zone. To be brutally honest, to to
• 39:35
  modern Doctor Who something, something made in the last 10
• 39:41
  years. Yeah, even the Daleks is where
• 39:44
  I've been willingly coerced willingly, because I had a
• 39:50
  absolutely blast watching it the first time around.
• 39:53
  Have you only seen it once? I've only seen it once.
• 39:55
  I've only seen it once. This is the case for quite a lot
• 39:57
  of recent Doctor Who. Yeah, I, I tend to do this every
• 40:03
  now and again for people that love doing classic Doctor Who is
• 40:06
  pulling them into the new series.
• 40:08
  And we people are tentative about it as well, I think mostly
• 40:11
  because they know this stuff in their sleep.
• 40:14
  And like you say, you you've only watched this once before.
• 40:19
  But it's also an era that's heavily criticized, and I've
• 40:23
  heard you give positive reading on one of the least enjoyed.
• 40:31
  And so I just wondered, I just wondered if we could explore
• 40:34
  that era, its strengths and weaknesses, what you think about
• 40:40
  it overall, what you think. Yeah.
• 40:42
  Female Doctor, You know, the Doctor Yaz relationship in
• 40:45
  there. Dan's there, too.
• 40:46
  It's a good Dalek story. It's on the back of two other
• 40:49
  New Year's specials. There's a lot to unpick.
• 40:52
  Lots to talk about there. Yeah, well, when you ask for my
• 40:54
  top three Jodie stories, that was that was on my list.
• 40:58
  So it will be a great pleasure to revisit it.
• 41:03
  Well, then I will just say until next time, Mr. James Locke,
• 41:07
  thank you very much for your time tonight.
• 41:10
  I mean, what a story this was. What a story but Joe those
• 41:13
  shackles do look uncomfortable. I'm, I'm I'm going to send my
• 41:16
  army of three men over to, to to rescue in a moment.
• 41:20
  If that's thank. You, if that's all right.
• 41:21
  My wrists are hurting terribly. Thank you very much.
• 41:24
  Plus, you know, I don't want to get married again.