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M AND M EXTRA MAY 8, 2026 Iran exit strategies; a study of kindness · The M&M Experience

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to a meeting of the mines, crafted from decades
0:05
Speaker 1: of talk show experience, an extension of the magic they've
0:09
Speaker 1: created together on radio in the phenomenon called M and
0:13
Speaker 1: M Hot Topics in the News, and Wisdom from Light.
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Speaker 1: It's Mark Davis and Mike Gallagher. This is eminem extra.
0:24
Speaker 2: They said it wouldn't last a week, and they were wrong.
0:28
Speaker 2: Barely anybody say it wouldn't last a week.
0:30
Speaker 3: Nobody said that. Nobody said that we won in the can.
0:34
Speaker 3: My friend one pretty cool Happy Friday.
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Speaker 2: I don't want to do any the can. I'll do
0:39
Speaker 2: it here Chevy Chase National Lampoon. He's on a plane.
0:43
Speaker 2: Hid like a coke. Oh would you like that? In
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Speaker 2: the can?
0:45
Speaker 3: No, I'll drink it here right.
0:48
Speaker 2: Hello, Hio. So you know what you know what they
0:51
Speaker 2: did say? You know what they did say. They did say,
0:53
Speaker 2: and I know people have said this to you. Yeah, Michael,
0:55
Speaker 2: how do you fill three hours with material on the radiobdy?
0:58
Speaker 2: How do you find things to talk about? Duh? Look
1:00
Speaker 2: at the world. There's just millions of things to talk about.
1:03
Speaker 2: People did wonder. I don't think I did, but people
1:06
Speaker 2: did wonder After a talk show. You know another thirty
1:09
Speaker 2: forty fifty whatever minutes of other stuff to do? Are
1:13
Speaker 2: you kidding me? If we had energy and time and
1:15
Speaker 2: the inclination, we could do three four hours a day.
1:20
Speaker 2: Because a part of it is because we're just big,
1:22
Speaker 2: big mouth radio guys. But you know, what I'm learning
1:25
Speaker 2: from these stories and the rabbit holes that are now
1:27
Speaker 2: famous is that we've been on the planet for a while.
1:30
Speaker 2: We've done this for a while, We've lived some lives
1:33
Speaker 2: and done some things, and there are so many stories
1:36
Speaker 2: buried in these brains of ours. And the good news
1:39
Speaker 2: or bad news from everybody is you're going to learn
1:41
Speaker 2: in the coming years if we are blessed virtually every
1:44
Speaker 2: single one of those stories, because man, is it's just
1:48
Speaker 2: an opportunity to lay it all out. And I have
1:50
Speaker 2: loved every minute.
1:51
Speaker 3: I feel guilty at the end of every day's podcast
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Speaker 3: this week of ending, because we could keep going, and
1:58
Speaker 3: I almost feel like there's much more to do, But
2:00
Speaker 3: I also don't want to wear out our welcome. But
2:02
Speaker 3: and look, we're learning this space. I mean, we think
2:05
Speaker 3: we're in the sweet spot of you know, thirty five
2:07
Speaker 3: forty minutes a day, maybe forty five minutes some podcasts
2:11
Speaker 3: go two, three, four hours, some people do twenty minutes.
2:15
Speaker 3: And we're learning this whole world together of the downloads
2:19
Speaker 3: per episode and the subscribers over on YouTube, and we
2:22
Speaker 3: thank you for watching us right now on the Mike
2:25
Speaker 3: Gallagher Show YouTube channel. But it's a brave new world.
2:30
Speaker 3: But it's an exciting new chapter for us because as
2:32
Speaker 3: you said, we're both you know, veterans of radio shows.
2:36
Speaker 3: We've got many decades between us, but this is a
2:39
Speaker 3: brand new start for us. This is a new page
2:41
Speaker 3: and I'm loving every bit of it, and I'm absorbing
2:44
Speaker 3: all of it like a sponge, as I knew you are,
2:46
Speaker 3: because it's kind of fun for us to compare notes
2:49
Speaker 3: and find out what we've learned about this this amazing
2:52
Speaker 3: new platform.
2:53
Speaker 2: Because they also say you can't teach an old, well,
2:56
Speaker 2: we're the old dogs. You can't teach it old, and
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Speaker 2: apparently you can. But because this is in a way,
3:04
Speaker 2: it's it's us talking about stuff, so in that way,
3:07
Speaker 2: it's like everything else we've ever done, but it's so
3:09
Speaker 2: different and so untethered to the usual formatics and the
3:13
Speaker 2: usual breaks and the usual this and the usual that
3:15
Speaker 2: has just been enormously, enormously refreshing and.
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Speaker 3: We and by the way, we've already gotten I'm getting
3:21
Speaker 3: feedback from our audience on how they like the new podcast,
3:24
Speaker 3: and I do. I do want to encourage you give
3:27
Speaker 3: us your feedback. I love that kind of feed back.
3:29
Speaker 3: If you want. My email address is Mike at mike
3:31
Speaker 3: online dot com. If you send an email, I don't
3:35
Speaker 3: mind the constructive criticism. I had somebody right the other day. Hey,
3:38
Speaker 3: I like the lighting, I like the new the new
3:40
Speaker 3: purple background. I like the casual look that you bring
3:43
Speaker 3: to it. Mike and Mark's always pretty casual in his
3:46
Speaker 3: radio show. But when I do sale a news channel
3:48
Speaker 3: with the Mike Allager, so I gotta wear a suit
3:49
Speaker 3: and tie, and I gotta put stupid powder on my
3:52
Speaker 3: face and all that. Well, we don't have to do
3:53
Speaker 3: that on the podcast. It's a it's a but but.
3:56
Speaker 3: And somebody said, hey, you guys don't interrupt each other
3:58
Speaker 3: like you as much as you usually do. I love that.
4:00
Speaker 3: So we always get bagged on for talking over each other.
4:03
Speaker 3: But feel free to give us feedback. Mike at Mike
4:06
Speaker 3: online dot com is my email address. Our text lines
4:08
Speaker 3: are open to you, and and Mark, I know you
4:11
Speaker 3: welcome that feedback as well.
4:13
Speaker 2: Not so much. Moving on, markane a, Mark Davis Show,
4:19
Speaker 2: Mark Davis Show at gmail dot com, Mark Davis Show
4:23
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. Now that I've been pressured into
4:25
Speaker 2: being as acnossible.
4:26
Speaker 3: Now clearly he's prickly on this, So be kind, be
4:29
Speaker 3: very be productive in your be constructive in your criticism.
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Speaker 3: All right, So let's start item one, because earlier today
4:38
Speaker 3: I interviewed our friend and colleague Hugh hewittt because Hugh
4:41
Speaker 3: is really worried about this alleged one page memorandum the
4:46
Speaker 3: President Trump and the administration has presented to the mullas
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Speaker 3: of the run and and and Hugh went right in
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Speaker 3: on this, saying it's a terrible idea, it's a bad deal.
4:58
Speaker 3: And Hugh makes the case that we've got to be
5:00
Speaker 3: able to finish the job. And the deal has been reported,
5:05
Speaker 3: which incidentally, many are some are denying. Seb Gorka was
5:08
Speaker 3: on Newsmax Wednesday night and he denied the reporting that
5:12
Speaker 3: said it, you know.
5:14
Speaker 2: No such deal. It's all a work of fiction.
5:17
Speaker 4: These audusticly scoundrels that they're not worth the suit of
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Speaker 4: the soul anyway, He denies it we're going to see,
5:28
Speaker 4: but he's trying.
5:29
Speaker 3: Trump is trying to find an exit ramp. And I
5:32
Speaker 3: walk in today to get ready to kick off episode
5:35
Speaker 3: number five of M and M Extra, And on the
5:37
Speaker 3: text line is a text from Dallas saying, Mike, you
5:41
Speaker 3: and Mark should dive into what victory over Iran looks like.
5:46
Speaker 3: How do you define victory? And it's not easy. The
5:50
Speaker 3: texture says, I'll answer that with two words. I'll get
5:53
Speaker 3: the ball rolling regime change. So that's now, that's that's
5:58
Speaker 3: a notable observation. Let me start with you, mister Davis,
6:02
Speaker 3: and you dive into what you think victory looks like
6:05
Speaker 3: over Iran and what the United States role should be
6:09
Speaker 3: over the next say, three to six months.
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Speaker 2: Okay, here's my list. An appreciable expectation that Iran has
6:17
Speaker 2: been neutered in terms of nuclear weaponry. A guarantee from
6:22
Speaker 2: Iran that they will no longer conduct mischief in the
6:25
Speaker 2: Strait of Horn moves that impedes global commerce. A willingness
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Speaker 2: on the part of Iran for inspections, even unannounced ones
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Speaker 2: that will lay bare the degree to which they have
6:38
Speaker 2: rendered themselves the inert in a nuclear fashion. Those are
6:44
Speaker 2: my starters and it involves some trust but verify. But
6:48
Speaker 2: they would need to agree to those things. And I
6:51
Speaker 2: guess here's where we get to the difference between I
6:53
Speaker 2: think you're going to agree with me here. I think
6:55
Speaker 2: I'll shut up and find out here in a minute.
6:58
Speaker 2: Am I right that the Hue problem is that is
7:02
Speaker 2: that our definition is like too soft, to too short term,
7:05
Speaker 2: and too easy for them to cheat. And look, I
7:07
Speaker 2: want to be on them every day. I want to
7:09
Speaker 2: hover over them like a hawk to say, listen, these
7:11
Speaker 2: are the terms you've agreed to. We're going to watch you.
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Speaker 2: And if you divert from them, you know what's going
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Speaker 2: to happen. Is the Hue point that we need some
7:19
Speaker 2: magical piece of paper that renders them neutered for a
7:24
Speaker 2: thousand years.
7:26
Speaker 3: Hugh's argument is that any we need to bomb them
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Speaker 3: into oblivion. He said they are the killers. He said
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Speaker 3: they are killers and will never be anything other than killers.
7:39
Speaker 3: He's talking about the I r GC, not the Arteese.
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Speaker 3: So Hugh, who, incidentally, I don't take anything away from
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Speaker 3: his knowledge of foreign policies, A smart guy. He served
7:51
Speaker 3: in the Nixon in the I believe the Reagan administration
7:55
Speaker 3: also was close to Nixon, and he's making a distinction
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Speaker 3: here that we need to wipeout the IRGC, not the Artes. Okay,
8:04
Speaker 3: I'm fine. You're still dealing with evil, fanatical, maniacal people
8:10
Speaker 3: who are committed to the destruction of Israel and Trump
8:13
Speaker 3: for Trump, it's a very simple equation. We can never
8:16
Speaker 3: let them produce a nuclear weapon, period. And how we
8:20
Speaker 3: get there is, you know, the devil's in the details.
8:24
Speaker 3: We talked earlier about is this being fifteen years before
8:27
Speaker 3: they can resume their uranium enrichment program? How do we
8:32
Speaker 3: do that? And to the average audience member, and I've
8:35
Speaker 3: asked this question all week, they're saying, wipe them all out.
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Speaker 3: That's not practical, it's not going to happen.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's not. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Is
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Speaker 2: that a laudable gold of course, it is the notion
8:47
Speaker 2: of simply eradicating them to reduce to zero the likelihood
8:51
Speaker 2: of mischief in the future. Absolutely, But you have to
8:54
Speaker 2: ask about any solution, is it real, is it plausible?
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Speaker 2: And if they view what you and I seem to
9:01
Speaker 2: be gravitating toward what the president seems to be you
9:03
Speaker 2: gravitating towards, and what Jared Kushner, Steve Whitcoff, and Marco
9:07
Speaker 2: Rubio are probably going to bargain here is that if
9:10
Speaker 2: we have relative certainty for five years, then ten years,
9:13
Speaker 2: then when you know Baron Trump is president in fifteen
9:16
Speaker 2: or twenty years, there may be an occasional revisit that's necessary,
9:20
Speaker 2: and maybe that makes it important to keep electing Republican presidents.
9:24
Speaker 2: Just a thought that occurred to me, But I think
9:27
Speaker 2: that I don't even think that's incrementalism. It's making being
9:31
Speaker 2: pretty certain now pretty certain one two, five years in
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Speaker 2: the future. Maybe we've got to make sure in five
9:36
Speaker 2: years that hey, is all this still holding together, rather
9:39
Speaker 2: than this thoroughly unrealistic expectation in twenty twenty six that
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Speaker 2: there's something we can do, some bomb we can drop,
9:46
Speaker 2: some cohort of Iranian leadership that we can completely obliterate
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Speaker 2: and be certain for a hundred years, don't.
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Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to bring it back to the United
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Speaker 3: States and domestically, because we've got a midterm election that
9:59
Speaker 3: is months away, and I'm just going to tell you
10:01
Speaker 3: flat out, if gas is at six dollars a gallon
10:04
Speaker 3: and we're still at war with Iran in November. We
10:07
Speaker 3: are dead in the water. We are going to lose
10:08
Speaker 3: this country because the Democrats are going to take control
10:11
Speaker 3: of the House and the Senate. I think Trump knows
10:14
Speaker 3: that instinctively and recognizes we have to get that. We
10:18
Speaker 3: got to have an exit ramp here, and that's important,
10:21
Speaker 3: and you know, to the to the Hugh Hewitts of
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Speaker 3: the world. And I don't say this as a criticism.
10:25
Speaker 3: I told him on the show earlier today. I said, look,
10:28
Speaker 3: you and I I respect you. We don't always agree
10:31
Speaker 3: because you're a Washington insider. You're you are an establishment Republican.
10:35
Speaker 3: And I don't say that as a criticism. That's not
10:37
Speaker 3: a pejorative. You call yourself an establishment Republican. Establishment republicans, though,
10:44
Speaker 3: have never seen a war they didn't love. Think Lindsey Graham,
10:47
Speaker 3: think Dick Cheney, think think the the the the long
10:52
Speaker 3: history of and legacy of establishment what I would call
10:57
Speaker 3: country club Republicans. And let's face it, Donald Trump rejects that.
11:01
Speaker 3: President Trump was elected on the largely on the strength
11:04
Speaker 3: of saying, I'm not going down those paths anymore. We're
11:07
Speaker 3: not going to have forever wars.
11:09
Speaker 2: And you also have to think that even if we
11:11
Speaker 2: were to say, okay, Hugh Lindsey, neocons, we're going to
11:16
Speaker 2: take the leap that you want us to take of
11:19
Speaker 2: just the outright liquidation, obliteration of an entire layer of
11:25
Speaker 2: And it's kind of attractive to say, even as I say,
11:27
Speaker 2: and I get tingedly thinking about it. But how exactly
11:31
Speaker 2: long would that take? Would we be successful on blow
11:35
Speaker 2: number one or blow number two? Is it possible we'd
11:37
Speaker 2: be bogged down? How much of it would require here
11:40
Speaker 2: it comes boots on the ground. And if the answer
11:44
Speaker 2: to that is might be boots on the ground might
11:46
Speaker 2: take a while in Halloween, if we got one hundred
11:50
Speaker 2: thousand troops on the shores of Iran and gas is
11:54
Speaker 2: six seven dollars a gallon, a nuclear Iran may be
11:58
Speaker 2: our second worst problem Democrat president maybe number one.
12:03
Speaker 3: I loved what President Trump posted this week on Truth.
12:06
Speaker 2: Social Department Democrat midterms. Obviously presidents not until twenty twenty eight,
12:10
Speaker 2: but who knows how messy it might get.
12:12
Speaker 3: But I love what President Trump posted on True Social
12:14
Speaker 3: about the length of all the wars that the United
12:17
Speaker 3: States has been engaged in. And he put a chart together.
12:20
Speaker 3: He said, look at this chart and study it, and
12:23
Speaker 3: unfortunately I don't have the numbers in front of me.
12:25
Speaker 3: But you know the idea it was, you know, Afghanistan,
12:29
Speaker 3: five hundred and thirty seven weeks, the civil War X
12:32
Speaker 3: number of hundreds of weeks. You know, the War of
12:35
Speaker 3: eighteen twelve, four hundred and sixty seven weeks, World War two,
12:39
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, Iran, the Iran, he called it the
12:42
Speaker 3: Iran Excursion.
12:44
Speaker 2: Yes, six weeks, Yes, six weeks. See, come on, people going, hello,
12:49
Speaker 2: are you done yet?
12:49
Speaker 3: That's done? That's it, that's it. I mean, I think
12:52
Speaker 3: that that hughes objection, and I get it. I take
12:56
Speaker 3: his point is that we're so impatient. We want an
12:59
Speaker 3: answer yesterday day. We want it resolved. We want it
13:01
Speaker 3: all put up in a kneat, tidy bow and put away,
13:04
Speaker 3: and we're gonna deal with this and move on to
13:05
Speaker 3: the next problem. It's not gonna it's not gonna go
13:07
Speaker 3: that way. But Mark, if we don't get out soon,
13:11
Speaker 3: we're gonna lose this country. We're gonna we're gonna be
13:14
Speaker 3: in big, big trouble. Can we take a moment and
13:17
Speaker 3: acknowledge what happens if the Democrats do take control of
13:21
Speaker 3: the House and the Senate. We're in a we're in
13:24
Speaker 3: a we're in a.
13:24
Speaker 2: Heap of trouble impeachment every day. And I don't mean
13:27
Speaker 2: to go straight to the impeachment thing like that would
13:30
Speaker 2: be I mean, it's hard. The list is so long
13:33
Speaker 2: of horrible things. If Democrats regain power in Congress, horrify
13:37
Speaker 2: and listen. Trump would wave off all these impeachments like
13:40
Speaker 2: a horse's tail waving off a fly. But it would
13:43
Speaker 2: just take up all the oxygen and we wouldn't be
13:45
Speaker 2: able to do anything and our agenda would be completely paralyzed.
13:49
Speaker 2: And so that and I've got to think that this
13:51
Speaker 2: has got to be on the talking points to get
13:53
Speaker 2: out there, even among the independents who may again don't
13:58
Speaker 2: view themselves as particularly liberal, particularly conservative. But but what
14:02
Speaker 2: if I say, they focus on the focus on just
14:04
Speaker 2: government seem to work, the things seem to be working, well,
14:07
Speaker 2: that's what independence look at. Government won't it won't be
14:10
Speaker 2: working well, it won't be working at all if we
14:12
Speaker 2: are eyeballs deep in impeachment for two solid years.
14:17
Speaker 3: And you know, but he's he's definitely got a big
14:20
Speaker 3: problem right now with independence. And I'm glad you mentioned it.
14:22
Speaker 3: I'm glad you raised it, because that's got to be
14:25
Speaker 3: part and parcel of what we're going to do here
14:27
Speaker 3: in America for the next six months. We've got to
14:29
Speaker 3: figure out a way to remind Independence of why you
14:32
Speaker 3: found the Trump era appealing in the first place. Can
14:36
Speaker 3: can we take a moment and try to analyze what
14:41
Speaker 3: and you just gave a great, a great tip of
14:43
Speaker 3: the of the of the iceberg.
14:45
Speaker 2: Though it seemed functional, it seemed that Trump seemed like
14:47
Speaker 2: a good manager of things. It seems like Trump is
14:50
Speaker 2: the kind of guy who was it, get things done
14:52
Speaker 2: kind of guy, and you would get some results in boys.
14:55
Speaker 3: Why so, why is he hemorrhaging support with independence? Now?
14:59
Speaker 2: Is everything the war? I don't know, is that because
15:00
Speaker 2: independence don't like five dollars gas?
15:02
Speaker 3: I mean, as it.
15:04
Speaker 2: Wonder, it seems like the war. You really have to
15:09
Speaker 2: believe in the war as I do, as you do,
15:11
Speaker 2: and believe in and trust in Trump pretty implicitly to
15:15
Speaker 2: feel like this is on a plausible path. If you're
15:20
Speaker 2: a Trump hater, it's horrible.
15:21
Speaker 3: We're going to lose.
15:22
Speaker 2: You're rooting for us to lose the Independence. In that
15:25
Speaker 2: mushy middle ground, they just see expensive gas. They see
15:29
Speaker 2: narratives that kind of do change from time to time.
15:32
Speaker 2: We've won, I think we're done. Wait a minute, what's
15:33
Speaker 2: it called this week? And they may have doubts as
15:36
Speaker 2: to whether it really is humming on all eight cylinders
15:39
Speaker 2: as much as it could. Those doubts are based on
15:42
Speaker 2: a busy news cycle where the things the Iranians are
15:45
Speaker 2: not the easiest people to deal with. So there's a
15:47
Speaker 2: lot of uncertainty. And I don't think that Independence, like
15:50
Speaker 2: the stock market, don't like uncertainty.
15:52
Speaker 3: Well, the other massive policy declaration or achievement, it has
15:59
Speaker 3: been the Massy portion, and it could be. And I
16:02
Speaker 3: hear this narrative a lot, and I get it from Independence,
16:05
Speaker 3: who are sort of neutral on Trump. They voted for him,
16:08
Speaker 3: they're not really enamored with him, but they think he's
16:10
Speaker 3: certainly a better alternative to any Kamala Harris, Pete Buddha,
16:14
Speaker 3: Judge Gavin Newsom policy that could possibly be conjured together.
16:18
Speaker 3: And the narrative is this that we sort of had
16:22
Speaker 3: a belief that the mass deportation meant the worst of
16:26
Speaker 3: the worst. That phrase the worst of the worst comes up,
16:29
Speaker 3: and you've got to be actually engaged in active criminal activity.
16:34
Speaker 3: The guy that runs the taco stand in Grand Prairie,
16:38
Speaker 3: who's never been in trouble for the last twenty five years,
16:41
Speaker 3: who's got a business, he's got a wife and kids,
16:43
Speaker 3: but he is here illegally. Independence I think don't have
16:48
Speaker 3: the stomach for watching, you know, Wan, the taco stand
16:52
Speaker 3: owner getting rounded up and separated from his family and deported.
16:56
Speaker 3: And that's just something we've got to have to deal with.
16:58
Speaker 2: I don't know how, and I don't know how hundred
17:00
Speaker 2: percent right. I mean, because again, if we're talking about it,
17:03
Speaker 2: and this is really important, because any election is about
17:05
Speaker 2: understanding how we staunch conservatives feel, but also the independents
17:10
Speaker 2: whom we are trying to attract, maybe even the occasional
17:13
Speaker 2: wayward Democrat. There was such a thing as Trump, as
17:16
Speaker 2: Reagan democrats. I believe there was such a thing as
17:18
Speaker 2: Trump democrats both times that he won. I believe there
17:21
Speaker 2: can be again in terms of the kind of Republican candidate,
17:24
Speaker 2: especially with this populism thing that we seem to be curating.
17:28
Speaker 2: There may be some value to that. But you're right,
17:31
Speaker 2: the gathering one hundred independent voters and ask them, are
17:34
Speaker 2: you okay, with mass deportation of really, really vicious criminals.
17:39
Speaker 2: Of course, are you in favor of us dragging twenty
17:42
Speaker 2: people out of the break room at home depot? Probably
17:45
Speaker 2: not as much.
17:46
Speaker 3: Well, that could and that's just something we're going to
17:48
Speaker 3: have to try to overcome and make the case because look,
17:51
Speaker 3: all the polling data suggests that Americans are still on
17:54
Speaker 3: board with the mass deportation of illegal immigrants. There is
17:57
Speaker 3: a legal path to do this. Do it the right place.
18:00
Speaker 3: Way will encourage you, will help you, We'll it will
18:02
Speaker 3: even give you some money to go back to your
18:04
Speaker 3: native country and and try again. Legitimately. I mentioned Grand
18:10
Speaker 3: Prairie a minute ago. You and I haven't had a
18:12
Speaker 3: chance to talk a little bit about the city owned
18:15
Speaker 3: water park. Go, okay, let's dive into this because this
18:20
Speaker 3: is a fascinating story. Grand Prairie, Texas canceled what was
18:24
Speaker 3: to be a private party for Muslims at a city
18:28
Speaker 3: owned water park after.
18:30
Speaker 2: What one thing this was where's the story you're reading.
18:34
Speaker 3: Is from Dallas Morning News.
18:36
Speaker 2: Well there you are. Now, I'm teasing guys, not here
18:40
Speaker 2: in lies the solution, and I'm gonna let you go.
18:42
Speaker 2: It's it was it was private only up to a point.
18:44
Speaker 2: If it was thoroughly private, they could do whatever they
18:47
Speaker 2: want Muslims only, Christians only, Buddhists only, Atheists only. But
18:51
Speaker 2: the nature of it stop being private. But keep reading
18:54
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you how that happened and what why
18:56
Speaker 2: that brought different rules?
18:58
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and I don't know this. This is
19:00
Speaker 3: a distinction with a difference or not. I'm just again,
19:02
Speaker 3: I'm quoting Sarah Bihari from the Dallas Morning News, who
19:06
Speaker 3: wrote Grand Prairie canceled a private party for Muslims at
19:09
Speaker 3: a city owned water park after Texas Governor Greg Abbott
19:12
Speaker 3: threatened to pull hundreds of thousands of dollars in state
19:14
Speaker 3: funding about a half a million dollars in state funds
19:17
Speaker 3: that he threatened to withhold. The article goes on to
19:19
Speaker 3: say flyers initially described the event as for Muslims only,
19:25
Speaker 3: with a modest dress code and private prayer prayer area.
19:29
Speaker 3: I'm Amina Knight, a Dallas area mother of six who
19:33
Speaker 3: was hosting the event, said she didn't intend to exclude anyone,
19:38
Speaker 3: and later revised the flyer to say all are welcome.
19:42
Speaker 3: She said, as Muslims, we have a modest dress code
19:44
Speaker 3: going to a water park and be a challenge. This
19:46
Speaker 3: is a way to have fun and make sure our
19:48
Speaker 3: children and community feel seen well. Grand Prairie canceled the
19:53
Speaker 3: event after Abbot threatened to cut off about a half
19:55
Speaker 3: a million dollars in state funds. So give me your take.
19:58
Speaker 3: I know you're closer to it than I am. But
19:59
Speaker 3: walk goes through what happened there, and if you think
20:02
Speaker 3: that the resolution is an adequate one.
20:05
Speaker 2: The complicating factor is they tried to change the status
20:10
Speaker 2: of it, but from something they couldn't do to something
20:12
Speaker 2: they kind of could because it did involve public accommodation.
20:17
Speaker 2: Now at the at the outset, I wondered how much
20:19
Speaker 2: public accommodation laws even mattered, because if it is indeed
20:24
Speaker 2: a private event, we can gather, we can gather something
20:27
Speaker 2: together and say, hey, this is a Christian event, and
20:30
Speaker 2: the Buddhists and the and the Muslims and the Jews
20:32
Speaker 2: and the whoever's can do they you can do that
20:36
Speaker 2: if it is real it is truly private, like this
20:39
Speaker 2: is our private invitation list. Everybody's Christian, everybody's Muslim, everybody's Jewish,
20:43
Speaker 2: everybody's everybody's Irish, everybody's whatever. No, not everybody's white into that.
20:49
Speaker 2: My friend Mitch Little it was a state rapid A
20:52
Speaker 2: lawyer said that that the problem here arose and the
20:56
Speaker 2: reason public accommodation laws kicked in is on those posters
21:01
Speaker 2: that said muslim only, but then didn't they did invite everybody.
21:06
Speaker 2: It's weird. At the same time, it was kind of
21:07
Speaker 2: saying Muslims only, but fifty bucks and you're in. Well,
21:11
Speaker 2: does that mean that only the Muslims can pay to
21:13
Speaker 2: get in? Because as soon as you're inviting the public,
21:17
Speaker 2: public accommodation rules kick in, and on those public accommodation criteria,
21:23
Speaker 2: you cannot discriminate religiously.
21:26
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the pushback that was led by actually
21:29
Speaker 3: one of our fellow radio hosts, Dana Lash. She kind
21:34
Speaker 3: of led the charge to protest this water park day
21:39
Speaker 3: or whatever it was. And her question was, according to
21:41
Speaker 3: the Dallas Warning News, how is a taxpayer funded, city
21:45
Speaker 3: owned entity allowed to discriminate against non Muslims at a
21:50
Speaker 3: public water park. Now you're arguing they can.
21:53
Speaker 2: Your argument is, I love Dana, and when it was
21:58
Speaker 2: Muslims only, as soon as they invited the public, then
22:01
Speaker 2: they cannot and she's right, and everybody's right to be
22:03
Speaker 2: up in arn't once they change the terms. You know,
22:07
Speaker 2: what it kind of comes down to is do you
22:09
Speaker 2: believe them when they change the terms? Do you trust them?
22:12
Speaker 2: And maybe our Islamic community has some trust gaps lately
22:15
Speaker 2: of a sort. But because if indeed they're saying it
22:19
Speaker 2: was like the f whole Epic Branch community, Hey, it's
22:21
Speaker 2: going to be a Muslim community, but everybody can live there.
22:24
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of Jews are going to
22:26
Speaker 2: be living on Osama bin Laden Street there and then,
22:28
Speaker 2: not that they would have done that, but if they're
22:31
Speaker 2: not literally excluding people, you can have a gathering however
22:34
Speaker 2: you like, and you can there's freedom of association. But again,
22:37
Speaker 2: as soon as you invite the public, public accommodation laws.
22:41
Speaker 3: Kick Interesting, now you kind of snickered. You know. It's
22:46
Speaker 3: the Dallas Morning News, which, of course, I think it's
22:49
Speaker 3: fair to say has a left of center worldview. The
22:52
Speaker 3: article goes on to say anti Islamic rhetoric in Texas
22:57
Speaker 3: and across the US has surged in the past year,
23:00
Speaker 3: according to a report by the nonprofit Center for the
23:04
Speaker 3: Study of Organized Hate. Did you know there was such
23:07
Speaker 3: a center. What the Center for the Study of Organized Hate.
23:13
Speaker 3: How'd you like to go to one of their lunches site.
23:17
Speaker 2: That sounds like the Southern Poverty Law Center on steroids.
23:21
Speaker 3: The Center for the Study of Organized Hate. The Center
23:26
Speaker 3: traced the current waves of Islamophobia to a single tweet
23:31
Speaker 3: from Governor Greg Abbott in February of twenty twenty five,
23:36
Speaker 3: in which he amplified a post calling the Epic City
23:40
Speaker 3: development a Sharia city. Now the Epic City Development, Now
23:48
Speaker 3: what is that all about? I mean, this is a
23:50
Speaker 3: planned Muslim, Muslim centric neighborhood forty miles northeast of Dallas.
23:55
Speaker 3: It was previously called Epic City.
23:57
Speaker 2: Right then he game the meadow became the meadow.
24:01
Speaker 3: The meadow a planned Muslim centric neighborhood. Well then then
24:05
Speaker 3: here's Governor abbit saying, oh, oh, we got a Sharia
24:09
Speaker 3: city coming to Texas. Get out the popcorn because now
24:13
Speaker 3: it's a party and.
24:14
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of Governor Abboit and those folks
24:18
Speaker 2: said we're not gonna have Sharia law. There was the
24:22
Speaker 2: whole notion of no go Listen, Europe has no goes
24:25
Speaker 2: ons where it's just understood that the local police don't
24:29
Speaker 2: go because it's just a whole different sphere of laws
24:33
Speaker 2: and stuff. And they said, look, we're not going to
24:35
Speaker 2: do that. We know that there's no way we'd get
24:37
Speaker 2: away with that in Texas. And you know what, maybe
24:38
Speaker 2: they were telling the truth. I don't know what Governor
24:41
Speaker 2: Abbit and Attorney General Ken Pacson have found is from
24:44
Speaker 2: some regulatory things and some paperwork things and some dotting
24:48
Speaker 2: of the eyes and crossing of the t's, there were
24:50
Speaker 2: things in the formative stages of that community that might
24:52
Speaker 2: not have been exactly by the book. And I've always
24:55
Speaker 2: said from the beginning that if you can catch them
24:57
Speaker 2: in a violation of law, then great. And if there's
24:59
Speaker 2: anything that they espouse, because there are portions of the
25:03
Speaker 2: Islamic practice that quality for women, separation of of li's.
25:09
Speaker 3: No.
25:09
Speaker 2: When I say church state, I mean keeping government out
25:12
Speaker 2: of churches, business and vice versa, religious freedom, freedom of
25:16
Speaker 2: speech that none of that's in the Quran. So this
25:19
Speaker 2: is antithetical to the American constitutionalist system of government. And
25:23
Speaker 2: and if there's anything that begins to smack them an
25:25
Speaker 2: overlap there, you got to you gotta keep track of that.
25:28
Speaker 2: So I think the concerns expressed toward that are thoroughly,
25:31
Speaker 2: thoroughly but that's not what they think over at the
25:34
Speaker 2: Center for This Organized State.
25:36
Speaker 3: If you find a website, you found a website, oh
25:40
Speaker 3: hate dot org, c s O hate dot org, send
25:44
Speaker 3: your donations right there.
25:47
Speaker 2: On their homepage manufacturing the Muslim threat.
25:52
Speaker 3: You know, you think it's true. That sounds pretty neutral.
25:55
Speaker 2: Is it possible to be too hopped up about this? Yes?
25:58
Speaker 2: And when I hear that somebody is, you know, there's
26:00
Speaker 2: no such thing as a good Muslim. I'm gonna go,
26:03
Speaker 2: you know, through a brick back of steady shopkeepers, going
26:05
Speaker 2: to stop it, stop it stopping. But but this, this
26:08
Speaker 2: is a psio that that that it is an attempt
26:11
Speaker 2: to smear any valid, righteous concern about Islamism and say
26:17
Speaker 2: that it must be islamophil.
26:19
Speaker 3: Look, concern about Sharia law coming to the streets of
26:22
Speaker 3: America is not ill founded, that's not misplaced. There there
26:26
Speaker 3: is definitely an effort, and I think we've seen anecdotally.
26:30
Speaker 3: I mean, you look at there are people who say,
26:32
Speaker 3: go to Dearborn, Michigan. You want to talk about as
26:35
Speaker 3: close to a no go zone as you're gonna find.
26:37
Speaker 3: There are, And the Muslim called a prayer. I mean
26:40
Speaker 3: in New York City, there has been tremendous consternation over
26:45
Speaker 3: under you know, Muslim mayor zo Ron Mamdani, a return
26:49
Speaker 3: to the amplification of the Muslim called a prayer. You
26:51
Speaker 3: got you got speakers blasting the Muslim called a prayer
26:55
Speaker 3: at like six in the morning. Now, that would that
26:57
Speaker 3: would that would annoy the heck out of me.
27:00
Speaker 2: And that would rattle me. Can I get to ask
27:01
Speaker 2: you something new in New York? New York boy? Yeah,
27:04
Speaker 2: because I love going to the city as often as
27:06
Speaker 2: I can, but you're there way more than me. And
27:10
Speaker 2: I think we talked about this because let's have a
27:13
Speaker 2: little test here of an application of fairness and consistency.
27:17
Speaker 2: Five six o'clock in the morning. Is what are the
27:19
Speaker 2: set times for the for the call to prayer? Is
27:21
Speaker 2: it on five of the morning? I don't believe whether
27:23
Speaker 2: it's five or six. That's too early. That somebody offered
27:27
Speaker 2: the comparison. I mean, let's say that there's one that
27:29
Speaker 2: crops up at noon. Let's just pick noon. A Muslim
27:32
Speaker 2: call to prayer some one of the boroughs of New York.
27:35
Speaker 2: Somebody said, what is the difference between that and church bells.
27:39
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously faith wise, we could have a theological discussion, well,
27:42
Speaker 2: one is this and one is that. But the similarity
27:44
Speaker 2: they have is it is an it is it is
27:47
Speaker 2: a it is a structure or a faith saying hello,
27:51
Speaker 2: we're here, come to us if you wish to consume
27:54
Speaker 2: what we are offering. That would be true at Saint
27:56
Speaker 2: Patrick's Cathedral, It would be true at the mosque do
27:59
Speaker 2: and the call to prayer at noon?
28:01
Speaker 3: What's that?
28:02
Speaker 2: Is there a difference at five in the morning? You
28:03
Speaker 2: know what, I don't think there is a difference that
28:05
Speaker 2: legally at which means noon is fine. Five am is
28:09
Speaker 2: not even twelve. I don't need I don't need to
28:11
Speaker 2: hear church bells at five in the morning.
28:12
Speaker 3: There are noise ordinances that are at play here, And
28:15
Speaker 3: you're right, there's absolutely a noise ordinance concern at five
28:19
Speaker 3: in the morning. There is no such concern at noon.
28:21
Speaker 3: And I think, to pass the famous Mark Davis consistency test,
28:26
Speaker 3: if you don't have problem with church bells peeling at
28:28
Speaker 3: twelve noon, you shouldn't have problem with the Muslim called
28:31
Speaker 3: a prayer at twelve noon.
28:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we could fill up twenty seven thousand
28:35
Speaker 2: phone lines with people who don't want the Muslim called
28:37
Speaker 2: a prayer.
28:37
Speaker 3: But do you disagree two at three and four?
28:39
Speaker 2: I kind of do, I mean, do you think? But no,
28:43
Speaker 2: do I disagree with?
28:43
Speaker 3: What the do you disagree that it should be the
28:45
Speaker 3: same thing that twelve?
28:47
Speaker 2: It is, of course the same thing. It is the
28:49
Speaker 2: same thing. I mean, I think that the church bells
28:51
Speaker 2: last what a minute? I don't know how long the
28:53
Speaker 2: called a prayer is. I don't know how lengthy that runs.
28:56
Speaker 2: And a noise ordinance should apply to everybody equally correct.
29:01
Speaker 2: When I talked about the twenty seven hundred lines we
29:03
Speaker 2: could fill, there are people who would not be fond
29:05
Speaker 2: of the call to prayer anytime because they consider just
29:08
Speaker 2: that sound to be the sound of invasion, the sound
29:12
Speaker 2: of incursion, the sound of the ISLAMI sization of America
29:16
Speaker 2: and of New York or of Texas. Yeah, those concerns
29:19
Speaker 2: are valid. But I think we've got to sort of
29:20
Speaker 2: pick and choose our battles. And there's a list of
29:22
Speaker 2: things people get to do with their religious freedom, and
29:25
Speaker 2: we got to let those go. There's a list of
29:27
Speaker 2: things that are illegal, unconstitutional and problematic and we should
29:32
Speaker 2: focus on them.
29:33
Speaker 3: Well, let's end our Friday episode here on the Eminem Podcast,
29:38
Speaker 3: our Eminem Extra with a story about kindness. And I'd
29:42
Speaker 3: like to wrap up and kind of take take this
29:45
Speaker 3: into the weekend. And so now that you mentioned about
29:47
Speaker 3: all my trips to New York, I also spend a
29:49
Speaker 3: lot of time in South Carolina. And get ready Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
29:54
Speaker 3: next week, I'll be doing the Eminem Extra from the
29:57
Speaker 3: upstate of South Carolina, one lot bit home away from home.
30:01
Speaker 3: Of course, we're on a powerhouse radio station there, ninety
30:03
Speaker 3: eight nine w O R D and Joey Hudson part
30:07
Speaker 3: of that lineup in Tara and Bill and Charlie. So
30:10
Speaker 3: they built out a little studio for me in the
30:11
Speaker 3: radio sta. We Will, we Will. Eric already shipped the
30:18
Speaker 3: a FedEx large screen TV or the set is on
30:25
Speaker 3: the way, the purple background the Eminem Extra is on
30:28
Speaker 3: the way, so you won't know the difference. So new
30:35
Speaker 3: but new research suggests that for most people, the kind
30:40
Speaker 3: gesture that you may believe in doing, and maybe you know,
30:43
Speaker 3: think about the last time a stranger did something unexpectedly
30:46
Speaker 3: kind for you. Maybe someone held a door open, picked
30:49
Speaker 3: up something you dropped, or gave you a compliment that
30:51
Speaker 3: was unexpected. Did it change how you then you treated
30:55
Speaker 3: the next person you encountered. It's the old pay it
30:58
Speaker 3: forward dynamic kindness spreads. According to the new research, especially
31:04
Speaker 3: as we age. Younger adults are less likely than older
31:08
Speaker 3: adults to initiate acts of kindness towards strangers by let
31:11
Speaker 3: me give you the numbers of adults age fifty year older,
31:15
Speaker 3: seventy two percent said they felt comfortable initiating an act
31:18
Speaker 3: of kindness after being a beneficiary of kindness themselves, but
31:23
Speaker 3: only forty percent of adults eighteen to twenty nine who
31:27
Speaker 3: also received multiple acts of kindness said the same thing.
31:31
Speaker 3: So the younger you are, the less kind you are
31:34
Speaker 3: to others, the less apts you are yeah to But look,
31:41
Speaker 3: but broadly speaking, mark the country is doing better than
31:43
Speaker 3: cynics might expect. More than sixty percent across every region
31:48
Speaker 3: said they'd experienced kindness multiple times in just the last week.
31:52
Speaker 3: Southerners reported seeing people treat others with kindness most often
31:56
Speaker 3: sixty two percent. The lowest share were Midwesterners. Fifty six
32:00
Speaker 3: percent of those surveys said they realist acts of kind. Yep,
32:03
Speaker 3: that's what it says.
32:06
Speaker 2: I would think that like New York and San Francisco
32:08
Speaker 2: and Detroit and embittered big metropoliss would be the kindness vacuums.
32:13
Speaker 3: The lowest Midwest. The lowest is the Midwest. But you know,
32:17
Speaker 3: it reminds me of something that my Denise taught me
32:19
Speaker 3: to do years ago, and I try to do it.
32:22
Speaker 3: This is smalltzy and tacky and stupid. But and I
32:25
Speaker 3: don't want to sound like I'm bragging, but there's not
32:27
Speaker 3: a day that goes by that I don't attempt to
32:30
Speaker 3: do one random, unexpected act of kindness for another human being.
32:36
Speaker 3: And Mike, in my case, since I live it like
32:39
Speaker 3: drive thrus, I almost always pay the bill for the
32:43
Speaker 3: for the next person behind me. In other words, they
32:46
Speaker 3: have the order and by the time I get to
32:48
Speaker 3: the window, I'll say, Hey, that lady in the blue
32:50
Speaker 3: the blue pickup behind me, I want to take care
32:53
Speaker 3: of her bill and don't tell her and I'm just
32:54
Speaker 3: going to move on. Or if I go out to eat,
32:56
Speaker 3: if I go to my favorite diner, I'll try to
32:58
Speaker 3: pick a fem but but it's not I'm not trying
33:02
Speaker 3: to virtue signal here. It feels good to do that.
33:04
Speaker 3: I love doing things for people like that because it's
33:07
Speaker 3: totally unexpected. And Denise, she saw that in a book
33:10
Speaker 3: somewhere thirty years ago. I mean, you know, she's been
33:13
Speaker 3: gone since, you know, two thousand and eight, she said,
33:17
Speaker 3: a random act of kindness. And I love that. I
33:23
Speaker 3: love that thought of just trying to do at least
33:25
Speaker 3: one thing for somebody where it's not expected and nobody
33:29
Speaker 3: ever notices, in other words, not doing it for any credit.
33:31
Speaker 2: You just do it to do it precisely.
33:34
Speaker 3: And the.
33:36
Speaker 2: Lack of attribution, the not needing credit for it as well,
33:39
Speaker 2: is even extra. As you talked about the generational factor
33:43
Speaker 2: to that, right, I think what I mean, one of
33:45
Speaker 2: the reasons that the youngsters, that the whippersnappers are missing
33:48
Speaker 2: out on that is what a lot of kindness requires
33:51
Speaker 2: is actual human contact in three dimensions. And if there's
33:55
Speaker 2: less of that, the opportunities don't necessarily exist. So I'll
33:58
Speaker 2: meet you gesture for gesture. Tell you something happened to
34:00
Speaker 2: me literally this week, And these are the opportunities that
34:04
Speaker 2: I try to take on my way home. I will
34:07
Speaker 2: often try to make the little bit of the grocery run.
34:09
Speaker 2: Lisa and I will sometimes do that together, but if
34:11
Speaker 2: there's just a few things we need, it's like, hey, honey,
34:13
Speaker 2: I'm out already. Just give me the list and I'll
34:15
Speaker 2: stop at you know, tom Thumberkroger or Walmart, neighborhood grocery
34:18
Speaker 2: or whatever and pick up titmeal five or six or
34:20
Speaker 2: ten things. When I do. Whenever I come out and
34:23
Speaker 2: i'm loading my car, if there's somebody who's got some
34:25
Speaker 2: it's so funny. I'm sixty eight, dude, what is old?
34:28
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was even older than me,
34:30
Speaker 2: or anybody having a bit of a tough time, I
34:33
Speaker 2: will see if I can't take their cart back. One
34:38
Speaker 2: lady was having a tough time. She was part close
34:40
Speaker 2: to a curb and had her cart. Was just sort
34:43
Speaker 2: of it was just a tough thing where I knew
34:45
Speaker 2: that if I walked across six feet of grass, I
34:48
Speaker 2: could help her put those things in the back of
34:50
Speaker 2: her suv and then take her cart for her. So
34:52
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm going to do this, and I did
34:54
Speaker 2: do this, and she was enormously appreciative. But here's here's
34:58
Speaker 2: the thing that brings us back to the stark real world.
35:02
Speaker 2: I had to think for a minute before offering this overture.
35:06
Speaker 2: It is there an obstacle at first of a stranger
35:11
Speaker 2: coming at her in a parking lot, you know what
35:14
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like, you know, could I have been
35:16
Speaker 2: shot perhaps by you know? And then and I said,
35:19
Speaker 2: you know what, No, if she doesn't want me to
35:21
Speaker 2: do it, I'll go sorry, hey, no problem. If if
35:23
Speaker 2: she shrieks and runs, I'll say that was a bad idea.
35:26
Speaker 2: She was appreciative and I was not going to let
35:28
Speaker 2: that societal goo that impedes us from kindness. I'm going
35:34
Speaker 2: to offer anyway and see what happens. And I'm so
35:36
Speaker 2: very very glad that I didn't. So I offer that.
35:39
Speaker 2: I'm going to allow others, you know what, give it
35:42
Speaker 2: a try. I'd rather make that offer and have it
35:46
Speaker 2: rebuffed than not make it at all.
35:48
Speaker 3: Well, our invitation for your random active kindness is to
35:51
Speaker 3: continue to follow the eminem Extra podcast wherever you get
35:54
Speaker 3: your podcasts. Please please please make sure you follow us
35:58
Speaker 3: on YouTube. Go to the Mike Gallagher Show YouTube channel
36:04
Speaker 3: where you can see it every day noon eastern eleventh Central,
36:07
Speaker 3: and I just say take it into the weekend and
36:09
Speaker 3: on Monday, I will check in from the beautiful upstate
36:13
Speaker 3: of South Carolina.
36:14
Speaker 2: Mister Davis and those who are fond of listening to
36:17
Speaker 2: us on the radio, we will certainly extend these to
36:20
Speaker 2: the M and M Extra podcast, Because if you think
36:22
Speaker 2: Mike offered us travel stories on the radio and the
36:24
Speaker 2: clock is taken and we got breakes to hit, if
36:26
Speaker 2: Mike has travel stories, we may get to nothing else
36:29
Speaker 2: next week. So we have all that to look forward to. Wait,
36:31
Speaker 2: love you, Wait, Happy happy weekend, tipee weekend.
36:34
Speaker 3: Wait till I tell you about one of our colleagues
36:36
Speaker 3: and a listener trip where she was assigned the center
36:38
Speaker 3: seat in the last row of the airplane in coach economy.
36:42
Speaker 3: See what I want to have a great weekend. See
36:44
Speaker 3: you Monday,