Latest / Did That Age Well? / #167 - Did Tombstone age well? (w/ Jon Eks)

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#167 - Did Tombstone age well? (w/ Jon Eks) · Did That Age Well?

• 0:00
  Hi, what's up everybody? Welcome to another brand new
• 0:03
  episode of Did that Age. Well, we are not here to ruin
• 0:07
  your childhood, but if we do, we won't be held liable.
• 0:11
  Today. My guest, a four time repeat
• 0:14
  guest of the pod. John X welcome back.
• 0:18
  What's up, what's up? So good to see you and thank you
• 0:21
  for having me back once again. I think I pitched this idea
• 0:24
  because I will come back anytime.
• 0:26
  Literally you will have me anytime.
• 0:28
  Thank and thank you for that. Yeah, I'd like to have a guest
• 0:31
  on standby. You know what I mean?
• 0:33
  Oh. Yeah, no, I'll be your break
• 0:34
  open in case of emergency glass. Thank you so much.
• 0:36
  Yeah, yeah, I'll just zip down here because I'm rewatching
• 0:39
  movies all the time anyway. Yeah, totally.
• 0:40
  You're I'll just be like, what's the last movie that you
• 0:42
  rewatched that? I guess we'll talk about that.
• 0:45
  Yeah, it was probably on linear cable, full on dad style.
• 0:48
  Then I'm like half asleep for on a weekend.
• 0:50
  Exactly. Yeah, that sounds good.
• 0:52
  Yeah, totally. Kids are at soccer practice or
• 0:54
  play rehearsal or whatever. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 0:57
  I'm probably watching something, not disclosure, not something
• 0:59
  else. Yeah, and thank God for that.
• 1:01
  Yeah. Oh God, we've really run the
• 1:03
  gamut of some of the best to the worst, really, which was
• 1:08
  disclosure, but. In the words of Randy Mantra Man
• 1:11
  savage, which I quote often, yes, I've soared with the eagles
• 1:14
  and slithered with the snakes, brother, and been everywhere in
• 1:17
  between and. That's US. 100%.
• 1:20
  And that's us today. I wanna know, John, what are you
• 1:27
  up to tell the people about your podcast if you would like?
• 1:31
  Yeah, just tell me also what you've been up to.
• 1:33
  Yeah, so I wound down John of all trades after 11 years.
• 1:36
  Yeah. And it's so funny because even
• 1:40
  when I don't want to talk about work, we're talking about work,
• 1:42
  right? Because we did 3 workplace
• 1:44
  episodes on your show. I did like 400 plus workplace
• 1:48
  episodes on John of All Trades. Yeah.
• 1:49
  And so that was enough, right? And by the way, I created like I
• 1:54
  produced three shows that are exactly like that right now too.
• 1:56
  Yeah, totally. So like you can't make, you
• 1:59
  can't turn your hobby into a career and then continue to get
• 2:04
  excited about that hobby. Totally.
• 2:06
  So the new show is called Off the Clock with John X.
• 2:08
  You were one of the inaugural guests because.
• 2:10
  Honor, honor to be there. We have just a phenomenal
• 2:13
  rapport and that episode I got. Agree more and listener, if you
• 2:17
  disagree, I don't want to hear from you.
• 2:19
  Yeah, you can get fucked all the way.
• 2:21
  You can go have rapport by yourself.
• 2:22
  How about you go and rapport yourself?
• 2:25
  How about you play a nice game of hide and go fuck yourself?
• 2:27
  So. But anyway, so I'm kind of
• 2:34
  frustrated and I think it's mortifying in many ways to be a
• 2:37
  sure straight white guy in this country.
• 2:39
  Honestly so embarrassing for you.
• 2:41
  It's it's a rough sort of scarlet A to wear absolutely
• 2:44
  around just because we're responsible for a lot of
• 2:46
  terrible shit. Yeah.
• 2:48
  So in the spirit, yeah, of being the change I want to see in the
• 2:52
  world, I go, OK, let's let's put on a show.
• 2:55
  Let's talk about what it is to be a good dude.
• 2:57
  Let's Yeah, let's just demonstrate, not necessarily as
• 3:01
  an answer to what's going on, but like counterprogramming.
• 3:03
  Yeah, totally. So like, let's have people on.
• 3:06
  Let's talk about real shit. You came on my show and I asked
• 3:09
  you what you want to see out of men.
• 3:10
  Yeah. And you wanted them to learn
• 3:11
  more about menstruation, which I thought was a phenomenal.
• 3:14
  I think that I think that CIS men, I'll say it, I'll say it on
• 3:17
  the mic again, that CIS men, if you don't know anything about
• 3:20
  female anatomy, get read a book, crack open a book, get some
• 3:25
  empathy. You know what I mean?
• 3:27
  There's a whole world of knowledge just awaiting you.
• 3:29
  Yeah. And you can be a good dude just
• 3:32
  by virtue of, you know what, stepping outside yourself and
• 3:35
  going, hey, other people are dealing with this, namely women.
• 3:38
  Yeah, it might behoove me, Yeah. To be a good dude and find out
• 3:43
  more about this. Yeah.
• 3:44
  So I, we're on episode 5-6, something like that.
• 3:49
  So we're fresh in it. Yeah.
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  And I'm all energized about it again.
• 3:52
  I'm really thrilled with the way it's going.
• 3:54
  And other than that, man, I mean, I business is good, kids
• 3:58
  are good. Great.
• 4:00
  I'm watching Tombstone in my free time, Absolutely.
• 4:03
  But like this time, I'm actually taking notes.
• 4:05
  Yeah, makes watching a dad movie feel like I'm doing homework.
• 4:10
  That's right. Yeah.
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  Yeah. It's like, sweetie, I'm sorry,
• 4:12
  I'm busy. I'm sorry, I can't I'm.
• 4:16
  Watching No, I literally I did it after everyone was asleep,
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  everyone was in bed totally, but like that's that's also like
• 4:21
  special dad time. Totally.
• 4:23
  Where, like, the house is quiet and you're just sitting there
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  and you're like, OK, it's me and this movie and the cat is next
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  to me. So I mean, I'm a cat guy.
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  So what do you have? Absolutely.
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  Yeah. So no, I mean, Molly, I can't
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  complain otherwise, you know, we can talk about everything that's
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  going on that I take objection to.
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  We could talk about everything that's going on in the world,
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  but we are here to talk about the Wild West.
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  So the macro, not great, the micro, amazing, terrific.
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  Yeah, I often, I often feel that way too when people are like,
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  how are you? Well, I mean, this week was good
• 5:02
  I guess. Like it's all bad.
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  I, you know, I deal with the existential dread, of course,
• 5:07
  quite a bit. But yeah, aside from that, you
• 5:09
  know it's. So give me little tasks I guess,
• 5:12
  while the world burns. It's like, aside from that, how
• 5:14
  did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
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  It is truly it is that joke it. Is that it?
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  Is that other? Other than that, how was the
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  play? That is, that is how things feel
• 5:23
  these days. But you know what?
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  We are here not just to talk about everything in the world.
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  We are here, as I said, to talk about the Wild West.
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  John, what what do you think about like the American Western
• 5:36
  genre? And also like, are you into
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  Western films? Like is that a thing or or is it
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  really just mostly like some of the more famous ones like
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  Tombstone? In general, no, I am not like a
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  scholar. I am not well versed in Western
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  cinema. You know, Quentin Tarantino is
• 5:56
  my favorite director, and he always cites, you know, like
• 5:58
  John Ford. Yeah, totally.
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  And you know, Sergio Leone and people who make these phenomenal
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  Westerns, I haven't seen most of those.
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  Yeah. Same.
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  But the ones that I like are the ones that I really like.
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  OK, so Tombstone is certainly part of that list.
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  Unforgiven is really awesome. That's bad.
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  Like, that one's a lot grittier. That's like Clint Eastwood.
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  And yeah, that's like a mean one.
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  Yeah. Young Guns is really cool.
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  And then I think an underrated Western, honestly, and it hits
• 6:27
  really hard once you hit 40 is City Slickers.
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  Have you done that one? No, I haven't.
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  If you do another dad one get. So get a dude who's, like, in
• 6:35
  his 40s and he will have opinions about city.
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  Yeah, I love that because, like, Billy Crystal turned 39 in that
• 6:42
  movie. Yeah.
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  And so to answer your question, no, like, westerns are not
• 6:47
  necessarily a thing for me. Yeah.
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  But when you get a good one, it's hard not to just fall in
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  love with the entire genre all over again.
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  Yeah, totally. I feel like this movie, it's
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  sort of like a it's a pretty typical blockbuster movie
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  wrapped up in this package of like American Western aesthetic.
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  That's not to say that it doesn't have substance like I
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  mean I think. I think the entire subtext is
• 7:16
  worth exploring here, and we'll get to that.
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  But yeah, it's got, it's got some pretty typical like 90s
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  blockbuster beats too. Totally, Yeah.
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  But it is very sweeping, like I noted in my notes, and I think
• 7:29
  that's good, right? I do this, I noted in my notes.
• 7:31
  And you noted in your notes. Sadly, we do this all in one
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  take, but I did note how sweeping and epic the score
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  sounds in this movie. Did you know that?
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  I thought the score was so distracting, like, oh really?
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  That's how like sweeping it was. It's it's a lot.
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  A lot the score, I mean like they just don't do it like that
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  anymore. The if this was made today, it
• 7:58
  would be very like it would be very subtle.
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  It would be much more understated, yeah, but this is
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  almost like the score. The orchestra pit is like the
• 8:08
  MST3K heads, they might as well be on the bottom of the screen
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  like exactly like playing along live to.
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  The action exactly, Yeah. Like something bad happens and
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  it's like don't do, which I love kind of, but it was distracting.
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  Like it kind of took me out of the movie.
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  But I think that that's just because we are so used to the
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  score off and being like more subdued.
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  Right. Yeah.
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  That's not a convention now the way that it was then.
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  Yeah, totally. It is very.
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  It definitely places us in the 90s, that's for sure.
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  Yeah, 100%. One thing I do have to say about
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  the American Western genre is that this was the perfect movie
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  for me to watch just days before I go to the Cowboy Carter tour.
• 8:49
  Oh sweet all. Right, Beyoncé, I'm going in LA
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  this weekend. So you know what really kind of
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  got me in the got me in the aesthetic, as you can tell by.
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  By your fringe jacket. I said this is me now.
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  Well, it's per you got the fringe jacket and the purple
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  hair. And the purple hair.
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  So I heard. I heard the best joke.
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  Common Quaker. Oh yeah, yeah.
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  Totally. Yeah.
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  No, this is, this is a traditional aesthetic in so many
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  ways. Absolutely no anachronisms here.
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  My favorite criticism of the Cowboy Carter album came from a
• 9:21
  comedian named Matt Bronner. He's like, you got a bunch of
• 9:23
  these rednecks were like, this isn't country music, You know,
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  this isn't real country. He goes, look, I know it's real
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  country music because I heard that song Texas Hold'em, and I
• 9:32
  don't like it because I don't like country.
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  And I thought what a weird way of validating that.
• 9:37
  A weird way of validating that. And kind of a left-handed
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  compliment, yeah. But you know, hey, it's
• 9:44
  validating her country cred for absolutely some of these racist
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  dipshits who need it. 100% so cool.
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  And you know who is? You know who's an ally?
• 9:51
  Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson is dope.
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  He's so dope. You've been to my house, my
• 9:56
  welcome, Mat says. Have a Willie.
• 9:57
  Nice day, and it's a picture of Willie Nelson.
• 10:01
  You don't remember that day. I don't remember.
• 10:03
  If I had noticed it, I would have remembered.
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  Yeah, no, that's true. You probably would have brought
• 10:06
  it. Up.
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  Yeah, I probably would have. God that's so cool.
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  Yeah, I love Willie. I met Willie Nelson in Vegas
• 10:10
  once. No way.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  We were at House of Blues, and we were just hanging out and,
• 10:15
  like, we're looking and we're like, who is this coming in?
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  Sure enough, it's Willie Nelson. We go, holy shit, Willie Nelson.
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  I think those are my exact words.
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  Yeah. And he goes, hey, guys, you want
• 10:25
  a picture? And we're like, yeah.
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  So yeah, go. If you go through my Facebook
• 10:29
  profile photos, it's me and Willie Nelson and my friend
• 10:32
  Jamie. So cool.
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  And he was just the coolest guy. And we're riding that high the
• 10:36
  rest of the night. That makes me so happy.
• 10:38
  They say don't meet your heroes, but.
• 10:40
  Yeah, and well, they would he's. Like you're here, but it's
• 10:43
  still, it's really nice to hear when like a celebrity is nice.
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  You know what they They wouldn't say that if they were all like
• 10:48
  Willie Nelson. Yeah, that's.
• 10:49
  True, that wouldn't be a saying. That wouldn't be a saying.
• 10:53
  This is one of those movies. Okay.
• 10:55
  Tombstone, like a lot of other dad movies, no offense, is one
• 10:59
  of these movies that I'm like, I swear I've seen this before.
• 11:02
  You know, I just feel like I've seen this before and then as I
• 11:06
  was rewatching it, I was like, I don't know, know if I, I don't
• 11:09
  remember any of this. It was like if I have watched it
• 11:14
  before, it was like I was watching it for the first time.
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  And if I and if it was the first time, it also felt like that.
• 11:21
  So, you know, whatever it's, we're just going to like move
• 11:25
  forward as if this was the first time I saw it.
• 11:27
  Yeah, I think that's probably worth doing.
• 11:29
  Probably. It was not my first time at all.
• 11:31
  And I believe that what made you want to discuss this movie?
• 11:34
  You know it was a shout out to your straight listeners.
• 11:37
  Absolutely. So it shout out yeah, so I'm
• 11:40
  right there. I'm like hi, we got I'm the
• 11:43
  problem. It's me we've.
• 11:45
  Got allies here? That's right.
• 11:47
  Yeah, that's me 100%. Yeah, totally.
• 11:49
  Count me in the ally column. Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:51
  And so I thought, OK, if if you're gonna give a shout out to
• 11:57
  your straight dad listeners, Yeah, totally.
• 12:00
  We should do a dad movie. And this is 1 that when it's on
• 12:03
  and again, linear cable, right, 100% I'll probably be sitting
• 12:08
  down to watch it. And so I thought, OK, this would
• 12:11
  be a good one to revisit because especially after I watched it
• 12:14
  again, I go, this is a little different when I look at it
• 12:19
  through the lens of thinking about this movie, yeah, or
• 12:23
  thinking about your show rather. And so just watching it for this
• 12:28
  purpose, I go, OK, no, there's more going on here than it seems
• 12:32
  like there is on the surface because like, let's just put
• 12:36
  this right out front. On a fundamental level, this
• 12:39
  movie is a love story. Period.
• 12:42
  I was just going to say that. Between Doc Holiday and Wider.
• 12:45
  It absolutely. Is and it's a love story and
• 12:49
  it's really queer coded, like all the way through too, in a
• 12:51
  lot of ways. 100%. And I knew, so when I was
• 12:54
  watching this, when I was texting you, I'm like, have you
• 12:56
  watched this yet? I'm like, oh, she's going to get
• 12:58
  this. And I think that's going to just
• 13:00
  tickle you. By the end of Tombstone, I'm
• 13:02
  going kiss, kiss, kiss. That might have been a little
• 13:08
  much for audiences in 1993. Yeah, might have been a little
• 13:11
  much. And you know, do you think, OK,
• 13:14
  so this is this story is based off of, you know, based on a
• 13:18
  true story. Do you think that that they may
• 13:24
  be kissed on the mouth in real life?
• 13:27
  You know I'm going to leave that to be like Schrodinger's kiss.
• 13:31
  Sure. I don't really, I don't really
• 13:33
  care because also the norm seemed a little bit different in
• 13:36
  terms of masculinity back then. For sure.
• 13:38
  Because if you think about even, like, Curly Bill is in the
• 13:41
  audience watching Shakespeare. Yeah.
• 13:43
  And he's like, that's the prettiest man I ever saw.
• 13:46
  Referring to Billy Zane. Yeah.
• 13:47
  And he's not wrong. Billy Zane is quite
• 13:49
  snackalicious. Yeah.
• 13:50
  Absolutely. Yeah.
• 13:51
  I mean, he's. Yeah, He's a treat.
• 13:53
  He's a treat. But you know, for a man to say
• 13:57
  that in 2025 in this culture that we have feels like it would
• 14:01
  be wildly out of place in, in certain circles.
• 14:05
  Like, I have no problem saying that I don't give a shit.
• 14:07
  I'm secure in who I am and my sexuality and all that.
• 14:10
  But for like back then, I think they just enacted that,
• 14:15
  performed that differently. And so whether they did or not,
• 14:20
  I don't know. I'll leave it up to them.
• 14:21
  I'll leave that to be one of the mysteries or histories of great
• 14:24
  mysteries. Yeah, one of the mysteries of
• 14:27
  history. We didn't like that that rhyme.
• 14:31
  We didn't. Neither of us like that.
• 14:32
  We. Didn't like that.
• 14:33
  I didn't like. That tripped right off the
• 14:35
  tongue. God, yeah.
• 14:37
  I think that it's interesting because oftentimes people talk
• 14:42
  about in the Western genre that there's this idea of a stoic
• 14:47
  masculinity and kind of this like toxic masculinity.
• 14:51
  I did not find that in Tombstone really much at all.
• 14:54
  These men are so tender with each other.
• 14:57
  They just, they just love each other.
• 15:01
  They. Love so much it has a lot of
• 15:03
  male feelings. It absolutely does.
• 15:06
  Men are crying constantly in this movie.
• 15:09
  Yeah. I loved it when Doc blinks a
• 15:12
  single tear from his eye. When he's on his deathbed on.
• 15:16
  And when he's on his deathbed. Yeah, if you ever just.
• 15:19
  Pale as can be. Yeah, just like, And he's been
• 15:22
  read Last Rites and he's sitting there and he goes, Wyatt, if you
• 15:25
  ever had any feeling for me whatsoever, you would leave.
• 15:28
  Now leave now. And like, Wyatt doesn't know
• 15:31
  what to say. And so he's just like, thanks
• 15:34
  for always being there, doc. And I'm like.
• 15:36
  Oh my God, I know. I.
• 15:39
  Know and I just like I'm welling up thinking about it, yeah.
• 15:42
  I know it's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 15:45
  And then like, and then he turns over the the thing that Wyatt
• 15:48
  wrote and it says my friend Doc Holiday.
• 15:50
  And I'm like God like that is. Oh my.
• 15:52
  God, that is the closest Wyatt will ever say to I love you Doc.
• 15:56
  Absolutely. So that's so cool.
• 15:57
  It's beautiful. Yeah.
• 15:59
  Speaking of masculinity, almost all the mustaches in this movie
• 16:04
  are real. Whoa.
• 16:06
  There was only one person. I wish I could.
• 16:08
  I wish I could remember who it was.
• 16:09
  But there was only one actor who had a fake mustache.
• 16:12
  All the rest of them real. Where I cast in this movie, I'd
• 16:15
  have a fake mustache. Mike doesn't connect right here.
• 16:20
  So like right here. It's too bad.
• 16:21
  So I look like it's like, hey, kids, you want some candy?
• 16:26
  Get into my Windows lamp. Because I'm also blonde.
• 16:28
  Yeah, totally. The blonde mustache is terrible.
• 16:30
  I. Am so sorry but no I want to see
• 16:33
  those mustaches. Like leap off these actors faces
• 16:36
  and go do battle with lesser mustaches.
• 16:38
  Wow, I absolutely. Wouldn't that be dope?
• 16:41
  That would be so dope because we know, we know it would be a
• 16:44
  sweep. Yeah.
• 16:46
  Oh yeah, so true. No, I mean Kurt Russell's
• 16:48
  mustache alone. I mean, he could.
• 16:52
  He'd win the battle at OK Corral.
• 16:55
  No, just that Mustache could have.
• 16:56
  It's spectacular. You got Sam Elliott.
• 16:58
  Oh my God, Bill Paxton's looks pretty good.
• 17:00
  Sam Elliott looks the same. I don't know if it's like
• 17:04
  because the mustache just takes up so much of his face that he
• 17:06
  can't see how he's aged, but that man literally looks the
• 17:10
  exact same. Yeah, he's like, he's like the
• 17:13
  old white guy version of like Donald Faiza.
• 17:15
  Always looks the same, timeless. Yeah, you go.
• 17:20
  Timeless. Wow.
• 17:20
  Do you still look like Turk or like exactly Murray from
• 17:24
  Clueless? Yeah, exactly.
• 17:26
  He looks the exact same. Yeah, totally.
• 17:28
  And I love that for him. I do too, especially his voice,
• 17:32
  man, because his voice shows up and you go, OK, we're in it now.
• 17:35
  We're in the American Western. We're in the American Western.
• 17:39
  It's amazing. OK, so as I mentioned, this is
• 17:43
  loosely based on some real events and real Western outlaws
• 17:47
  in the late 1800s in Arizona. One thing I don't understand is
• 17:51
  they're in Arizona. Why are there they wearing so
• 17:53
  many layers? Wool.
• 17:55
  Why are they wearing wool? They are.
• 17:58
  They're dressed to the nines. The, you know, the, what do we
• 18:02
  call them? The law men, the former lawmen,
• 18:06
  the peace, the peacekeepers, ironically versus the Cowboys,
• 18:11
  like, but the guys who come in, they're like, they're dressed
• 18:14
  like Quakers. They are wearing heavy jackets.
• 18:18
  What is up with that? We're in Arizona.
• 18:20
  I I don't understand it either. I mean, maybe it's like Grandpa
• 18:24
  Simpson, you know, we wore an onion on our belt because it was
• 18:26
  the style at the time. Absolutely.
• 18:28
  And so it's like they didn't realize they could wear clothing
• 18:31
  that breathed. Yeah, they hadn't invented it
• 18:34
  yet. But I will say what fashion is
• 18:38
  pain right? Or pain is beauty?
• 18:40
  How does that go? Beauty is pain.
• 18:41
  Beauty is pain, beauty is pain. And so maybe they're just
• 18:44
  sweating through that. And yeah, well, I mean, no one
• 18:47
  can tell though, because you're wearing all those layers.
• 18:49
  That's true. That's why I wore layers for
• 18:50
  this so no one could see me sweat under.
• 18:52
  These lights sweating. He's just sweaty.
• 18:55
  Yeah. Oh my God.
• 18:56
  I actually didn't remember just now when we were talking on your
• 19:00
  podcast about when you were doing that Happy Friday show and
• 19:04
  you're like, I'd always just like, walk away sweaty.
• 19:07
  You were just like, so aware of being on camera.
• 19:11
  Well, this is this is different because that they would make me
• 19:14
  run that fucking camera sometimes.
• 19:15
  Really. Oh, because we all rotated socks
• 19:18
  like and so we had the little Switcher like right here.
• 19:21
  And so one person would have to run it every time.
• 19:24
  So it's a lot to keep track. Of I'd be, I'd be sweating. 10
• 19:27
  fucking segments like every show and we would do them in like 1/2
• 19:31
  hour so it was fast and furious. That sounds, yeah.
• 19:34
  That's so this we're just chilling.
• 19:36
  This is low pressure compared to that anything.
• 19:40
  Yeah, compared to that pressure cooker.
• 19:41
  Yeah, no kidding. Jeez.
• 19:45
  OK. So other than other than my
• 19:48
  feelings about you know the Arizona of it all and the
• 19:51
  clothing not matching etcetera, one thing that does really make
• 19:55
  sense about the timing of Tombstone is just how there was
• 20:00
  this. I think perfect moment for a
• 20:02
  resurgence of a western film in that 90s blockbuster style.
• 20:08
  Cuz we had Unforgiven had just won the Oscar.
• 20:12
  Dances with Wolves. Another movie I really like too.
• 20:15
  So there were like some commercially and critically
• 20:20
  successful Westerns that had come out in the recent past.
• 20:24
  So it just seems like the right time I think.
• 20:27
  I agree, used to come out. I didn't see it at the time
• 20:30
  though. I didn't see it until I got to
• 20:32
  college. Really.
• 20:33
  Why is that? I don't know, it was just one.
• 20:36
  I didn't. One of history is mysteries.
• 20:38
  I'm never gonna say that again. I'm sorry.
• 20:40
  Yeah, you better not and. You better not.
• 20:47
  But for whatever reason, it was just one that I, I didn't see.
• 20:49
  Like I remember my uncle really liked it.
• 20:52
  Yeah. I think I was like anti Western
• 20:54
  at the time. OK, yeah.
• 20:55
  So just like growing up, you know, like it was.
• 20:57
  Go with your brand. It was the 90s, you know, like,
• 20:59
  and everyone's pissy in the 90s. For sure.
• 21:02
  And so we got to college and I moved in with some guys who
• 21:06
  three of them fucking loved it. Yeah.
• 21:09
  And so it was on I go. All right, Well I guess I'll sit
• 21:11
  down and watch this. I hated the movie for a while.
• 21:14
  Really. And here's why, by the way, Hi,
• 21:16
  Deuce. Hi, Keith.
• 21:17
  Hi, Clayton. Shout out friends of the pod,
• 21:22
  old college roommates. Because they would quote along
• 21:25
  to the movie, which wouldn't bother me normally because I do
• 21:28
  that too. Sure, but you'd hear the line
• 21:30
  before it happened. Then they'd say the line with
• 21:33
  it, and then they'd say it again after so you'd hear every line 3
• 21:36
  fucking times. That sounds pretty.
• 21:38
  And you go, OK, I, I can't watch the movie like this.
• 21:41
  I have to watch this on my own. Can't live.
• 21:42
  And I swear, one of them, I swear to God, he had toy guns
• 21:45
  that he would twirl while we watch.
• 21:46
  Oh. My God.
• 21:48
  Oh, this is like some Rocky Horror shit.
• 21:49
  They're like acting it out as it's going on.
• 21:52
  It's still like we have kooky props.
• 21:55
  It's the straight white guy version of Rocky Horror.
• 22:01
  That could not be more true, but the the one liners and the the
• 22:07
  quippy dialogue really does give it the staying power that it
• 22:10
  does. I mean, I think it's why movies
• 22:12
  like, I mean, we talk about a lot of them on the show, but
• 22:14
  movies like Mean Girls have staying power because of their
• 22:18
  quotability. This.
• 22:19
  Movie gets stuck in your head? Yeah.
• 22:21
  This movie gets like stuck in your head because of all of the
• 22:25
  little quips and quotes. Oh God, yes, yeah, I I was
• 22:28
  thinking about the first time we meet Doc and he's taking $500,
• 22:32
  which I did the the like the inflation calculator on that for
• 22:36
  it. So eighteen, 79500 bucks is
• 22:39
  about $16,000 today. Oh my God.
• 22:42
  So that's a pretty high stakes. Poker.
• 22:43
  Yeah, no kidding. And I love how he's sitting
• 22:46
  there and he's just beaten this guy with four Queens and he
• 22:49
  goes, Ed, if you were not my friend, I just don't think I
• 22:53
  could bear it, right? Just so smug.
• 22:57
  So just destroying this guy. And then like they robbed the
• 23:01
  place. He gets up and he notices the
• 23:03
  crap, the craps table. And there's just like money
• 23:05
  there. And he grabs that almost like an
• 23:07
  afterthought. He's like stuffs it in into the
• 23:11
  bag and he's like well good evening then and walks.
• 23:15
  Out you go. But he's so cool.
• 23:17
  He's just so cool. He's so cool.
• 23:19
  Yeah. And RIP Val Kilmer.
• 23:21
  All right. So is that how you do that?
• 23:24
  Like do you normally do that? Is that the?
• 23:26
  I think I did. You add libeth is like a joke.
• 23:28
  Yeah. Like doing like one of these
• 23:31
  when we talk about someone who died.
• 23:34
  Sometimes I do one of these. Sometimes I do one of these.
• 23:38
  Pour one out. Wow, you got all the moves.
• 23:41
  I love that. No he thank.
• 23:42
  God, this is on video. 100% that.
• 23:46
  No, he is the coolest motherfucker on earth, like both
• 23:48
  Val Kilmer and Doc Holiday. Oh my God, they could not have
• 23:53
  cast him better. Willem Dafoe was actually
• 23:56
  supposed to do. It I did read that, that would
• 23:58
  have been weird. It would have been weird, sorry
• 24:01
  Willem, but it would have been weird.
• 24:03
  You needed like a young. Haughty.
• 24:06
  Yeah, like a smooth operator too.
• 24:08
  And Willem Dafoe is all like caffeinated weird energy.
• 24:11
  He could have done, you know, Billy Bob Thornton's character.
• 24:14
  That bully Willem Dafoe could have done that.
• 24:16
  Really. He could have done that one.
• 24:17
  Yeah, but Billy Bob Thornton, OK, I know he plays like such a
• 24:20
  small role in this, but he is so good at being a raging bully.
• 24:26
  Yeah, and like a weasel too. A.
• 24:27
  Weasel. Yes.
• 24:29
  So, OK, I had this thought, and not to get too political on you
• 24:32
  here, but as I'm watching this movie and you got Wyatt Earp
• 24:36
  confronting Billy Bob Thornton's character, Johnny Tyler, I think
• 24:40
  his name is. Yeah.
• 24:41
  And Johnny Tyler is there bullying the patrons and, you
• 24:45
  know, just being a real Dick and a real red ass.
• 24:48
  And so why, it's like you're sitting in my chair.
• 24:51
  Oh, my God. And then just basically plays
• 24:54
  his bluff. Calls his bluff.
• 24:56
  Yeah, And I was thinking about it.
• 24:58
  I think the MAGA movement fancies themselves Wyatt Earp,
• 25:03
  but they're actually just Johnny Tyler.
• 25:05
  Wow. As soon as you stand up to
• 25:07
  someone who fancies themselves this big, blustery tough guy,
• 25:09
  Yeah. With some actual, like, real
• 25:13
  energy, Yeah, They cower, run away as soon as they're
• 25:17
  confronted with their own bullshit.
• 25:19
  Absolutely so. But that establishes Wyatt right
• 25:23
  away as a guy you don't fuck with a. 100% he's not bluffing
• 25:27
  and it keep it like. He's ready to throw down, too.
• 25:29
  It keeps coming back to that where people are like he's
• 25:32
  bluffing and then someone will be like he's not bluffing
• 25:36
  because they know when they look in his eyes, they know he's.
• 25:39
  He means business. God, Kurt Russell is so cool
• 25:41
  too. Yeah.
• 25:42
  And. Hot The men in this movie are
• 25:46
  smoking hot. Which is, you know, it's got to
• 25:49
  be because let's say the women don't have a lot to do in this
• 25:53
  movie. Oh my God.
• 25:54
  There is one scene where the women almost strategize.
• 25:58
  There's like, it's like 30 seconds where they like get
• 26:01
  together and they're like, OK, like what are we going to do?
• 26:04
  And then somebody breaks into the house and you're like, no,
• 26:06
  we almost had that. And if we're viewing this movie,
• 26:09
  you know, through the Bechdel test lens, that's about the only
• 26:13
  failure. That's about the only scene.
• 26:15
  We should actually talk about the scene where Josephine and
• 26:21
  Wyatt, that's that's who it is, right?
• 26:24
  OK. Josephine and Wyatt are kind of
• 26:27
  like, you know, having their first like floor D exchange.
• 26:30
  Wait a minute, wait a minute. Before we do this, we got to
• 26:32
  close the book on Johnny Tyler. Oh, I'm so sorry.
• 26:34
  Let's because. He comes back with the shotgun.
• 26:36
  Oh yeah, and I love how Wyatt and Doc are talking to each
• 26:39
  other and Doc just turned to me, goes, oh Johnny, I didn't
• 26:42
  realize he was still there. You may go now.
• 26:46
  You may go now. And then Kurt Russell in The
• 26:48
  Coldest Motherfucker on Earth. Yeah.
• 26:50
  Why? It just goes, You can leave that
• 26:51
  shotgun, too. Oh my God.
• 26:53
  And Johnny puts the shotgun down and then goes thank you.
• 27:00
  When someone punches you in the face spiritually and you say
• 27:03
  thank you and you say thank you. And then we don't see him again
• 27:07
  the rest of the movie. Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:09
  I bet Johnny Tyler left town. I was just going to say I bet he
• 27:12
  he walked out of that bar and he kept on walking till he reached
• 27:15
  the next. Town.
• 27:16
  I think that's probably wise too.
• 27:17
  I think so too. All right, so we're talking
• 27:20
  about Josephine and Wyatt. OK, so Josephine, to me, she's
• 27:26
  such a manic Pixie dream girl. She's so like, oh, I don't, what
• 27:31
  does he say? Are you happy?
• 27:35
  And she's like, I'm always happy unless I'm bored.
• 27:40
  She's like, I'm a cool girl. I'm not like other girls.
• 27:43
  I found that to be so annoying. Yeah, I totally get that.
• 27:49
  But what I wrote down and I thought about this compared to a
• 27:53
  lot of a lot of women characterizations of the time,
• 27:58
  she's like really sex positive and sex forward.
• 28:00
  And that might just be male fantasy too.
• 28:02
  That's true. Like because, you know, she's
• 28:04
  very self possessed too. And like doesn't want kids,
• 28:06
  doesn't want to settle down. She's like, I want to travel the
• 28:08
  world and order room service the rest of my life.
• 28:10
  Oh my God. Yeah.
• 28:11
  Which I mean, she may as well be a prototype for someone like
• 28:14
  Mary from There's Something About Mary.
• 28:17
  Just like this vehicle for fantasy.
• 28:19
  For what? Capital Capital C.
• 28:21
  Capital G Be cool, girl. Yeah.
• 28:23
  Yeah, yeah, 100%. So I could see where that would
• 28:26
  be annoying. As a dipshit male, I didn't find
• 28:29
  it all that annoying. And I go, wow, Dana Delaney
• 28:31
  seems like a lot of fun to hang out with.
• 28:33
  You said, you know what? I am always happy unless I'm
• 28:36
  bored, you know, I mean, of course, like I want like, of
• 28:40
  course I want to be her. Yeah.
• 28:41
  I want to like travel the world in order to room service the
• 28:44
  rest of my life. Yeah, live off your rich parents
• 28:46
  and not give a. Shit, Oh my God, The best, the
• 28:48
  best closing of the movie is when he's like, yeah, I don't
• 28:52
  have any money or a plan, she says.
• 28:53
  Don't, Wyatt, don't. Don't worry, Wyatt.
• 28:56
  My family's rich. I was like, that is a perfect
• 29:01
  way to wrap up this movie. He's like, I don't have a plan.
• 29:05
  I have nothing to offer you. I have nothing to offer you, she
• 29:07
  says. Don't worry, my family's rich.
• 29:10
  That rocks. The best part is, too, it seems
• 29:13
  like she has some mild contempt for her family.
• 29:15
  Yeah, she's like, let's spend all this shit.
• 29:16
  I don't care. Really.
• 29:18
  She's like, yeah, why not? Yeah, as they're dancing happily
• 29:21
  while the narrator tells us that Maddie died of a drug overdose.
• 29:24
  Very cool. Oh yeah, just off screen.
• 29:26
  Yeah, Maddie, like. Poor Maddie.
• 29:28
  She really has a thankless role in this movie.
• 29:31
  She really does. She services the plot, she gets
• 29:34
  addicted to opium and then apparently dies off screen
• 29:37
  undignified. Yeah like 2 years later like he
• 29:41
  he left his his dying wife. With the migraines.
• 29:45
  With the yeah, with the migraines, God.
• 29:47
  And then he like marries or doesn't marry.
• 29:50
  He has a domestic partnership. Yeah, the cool girl.
• 29:53
  Yeah, it's common law, wife. That is so messed up.
• 29:56
  I'm sorry, but that really bums me out.
• 29:58
  But the way that Maddie was just vibing, I kind of wanted a
• 30:02
  little bit of what she was having.
• 30:04
  She was. She was dissociating, man.
• 30:06
  Yeah, and I would too if, like, death was around the corner
• 30:09
  constantly, you know what I mean?
• 30:12
  Like in the Old West, Yeah. Yeah, in the Old West where it's
• 30:14
  like someone could just like if it's completely lawless and
• 30:20
  someone could just there's no gun control.
• 30:23
  I'll say that. No, Sam Elliott tried to
• 30:25
  establish some and they did not like they got pissed.
• 30:28
  They got pretty pissed about that.
• 30:30
  And I, I was thinking that must be just baked into American DNA
• 30:33
  somewhere. It is.
• 30:34
  Yeah. Where?
• 30:35
  And because he's like, look, people are dying in town, OK.
• 30:39
  Like, and I'm just trying to prevent you all from dying.
• 30:41
  Yeah. And they're all like, fuck that
• 30:43
  fuck. You like, fuck you, we will kill
• 30:45
  you, yeah. Yeah.
• 30:46
  Like so if I was living in that reality, I'd want to be Zand out
• 30:51
  like her too. Yeah, you know, in some Chinese
• 30:53
  opium den. Yes, exactly.
• 30:55
  Yeah, I would. That would be me.
• 30:57
  So thinking about how dangerous the West is, yeah, one of low
• 31:01
  key one of my favorite lines in this entire movie.
• 31:03
  It's right after that Johnny Tyler scene.
• 31:05
  It's when Wyatt says, hey, mayor, have you met Doc Holiday?
• 31:10
  And Doc goes, oh, piss on you, Wyatt, remember?
• 31:13
  Yeah. And he's like, oh, God, don't
• 31:15
  make me talk to a politician. I know.
• 31:17
  But he's, you know, he's talking about how we're just like Boston
• 31:20
  or San Francisco, and then these two guys come out and blow each
• 31:22
  other away in the middle of the street.
• 31:23
  So fun. And Doc just goes very
• 31:25
  cosmopolitan. Very cosmopolitan.
• 31:28
  He's so funny. He's so funny.
• 31:29
  He's very, he's so droll. I know.
• 31:32
  Like he's just, he's droll and deadpan and God, he's, he's the
• 31:35
  fucking best. Yeah, the.
• 31:36
  Coolest, Val Kilmer said in his in his book.
• 31:42
  I'm Your Huckleberry, he said. That was the name of his book.
• 31:46
  Yeah, of course it was. Of course it was.
• 31:47
  He said that that line's iconic. Of course, what probably the
• 31:50
  most iconic? OK wait, do you think that I'm
• 31:54
  your huckleberry or I've got 2 guns, one for each of you Is the
• 31:58
  more iconic line? I think it's I'm your
• 31:59
  huckleberry. Yeah, but I got 2 guns, one for
• 32:02
  each of you. Is just.
• 32:04
  I mean that is, I mean does. It get much cooler than that.
• 32:08
  No, no. But he said I have a poll quote
• 32:11
  from his from his book. He said one way or another,
• 32:14
  Americans have to deal with the West and it's glorious, sordid,
• 32:17
  sadistic past. We fought lawlessness to create
• 32:21
  an even more lawless law, one that excused and perpetuated
• 32:24
  genocide. Even today, this gun obsessed
• 32:26
  nation that we love remains mired in a dilemma centered on
• 32:30
  pistols and rifles with romantic ties to our murderous past.
• 32:33
  We love westerns. We learn everything from
• 32:35
  westerns that we learn nothing from them.
• 32:37
  We continue killing ourselves in unconscionable ways.
• 32:40
  That's why when I had the chance to play Doc Holiday, I grabbed
• 32:45
  it. And here's one thing.
• 32:47
  That is some trenchant social criticism.
• 32:49
  Here's what I think about that. I think that I'm totally on
• 32:53
  board with him until he says that's why when I had the chance
• 32:56
  to play Doc Holiday, I grabbed it.
• 32:57
  I'm like. That's fucking weird.
• 32:59
  I think maybe that's a little bit of a stretch.
• 33:02
  I don't think that Tombstone is saying that.
• 33:05
  No, I don't either. I don't think that it's really
• 33:09
  doing that. Did we mention genocide once in
• 33:13
  this? No, no.
• 33:15
  But I will say there, there are some subtleties here.
• 33:18
  When the mayor introduces himself, he says he's the tax
• 33:21
  collector, captain, the fire brigade and like the non
• 33:24
  partisan anti Chinese league. Oh, yeah.
• 33:27
  And you go, Jesus Christ. Yeah.
• 33:30
  And so when you think about that against the backdrop of what's
• 33:33
  happening now, you go, my God, it's been it.
• 33:36
  This has never gone away in this country, right?
• 33:38
  Yeah. This has always been here, like
• 33:40
  in some form or fashion, they just keep moving the targets.
• 33:42
  Exactly. And God, that's dispiriting.
• 33:45
  I know so, and the guns of it. All Yeah, the, the guns, the.
• 33:49
  Guns of it all. Yeah, and I mean, the hard thing
• 33:52
  is with a movie like this, for as tender as it is, you know,
• 33:56
  it's a love story between Wyatt and Doc, it is also very
• 34:00
  glamorous in terms of its gunplay.
• 34:02
  Oh, absolutely. And also like the the classic,
• 34:07
  like 90s Foley artists of like the gun sounding just like Pew,
• 34:11
  Pew, Pew, Pew, Pew Pew. Yeah, I love it.
• 34:15
  It's so like, oh, we're in the 90s.
• 34:17
  Yeah. It's cartoony.
• 34:18
  Yeah. And I kind of love that.
• 34:20
  But my favorite. OK.
• 34:22
  So I do want to address what you just said, but one thing I have
• 34:25
  to get out before I forget. Is that my favorite like gun
• 34:29
  move that they do is when someone just gets bonked on the
• 34:34
  head with a gun. Knocked out immediately.
• 34:36
  You just, yeah, they just bonk him.
• 34:37
  I love that. I think it's so funny when they
• 34:40
  just like bonk people on the head and that's the whole thing.
• 34:42
  I agree. Yeah, I love how Ike is all
• 34:44
  drunk, like yelling at the bartender and Sam Elliott
• 34:47
  standing there like the undertaker.
• 34:48
  Yeah, just like waiting for him. And then Ike turns around and he
• 34:51
  just cold cocks him. Yeah, with the butt of his gun
• 34:53
  and then throws him in jail. Yeah, totally.
• 34:55
  That's the all of the coolest moves with the guns are not even
• 34:58
  shooting them, you know what I mean?
• 35:00
  Well, you got Johnny Ringo, Yeah, you know, doing his whole
• 35:04
  baton twirling routine. That's true that everyone lose.
• 35:08
  Weird. Right.
• 35:08
  So funny, so funny. And the doc holiday with his
• 35:13
  little cup also I've marked that tiny little cup.
• 35:17
  Really took me out of the movie. Like I thought it was so funny
• 35:20
  how he's like. Just.
• 35:22
  Constantly drinking out of his teeny tiny cup.
• 35:26
  Well, he took it from that first scene.
• 35:28
  I know, but it was so funny. I well, it was a perfect way to
• 35:31
  mock Johnny Ringo. Oh, of course.
• 35:33
  Yeah, and so because Johnny Ringo's doing this whole
• 35:35
  involved thing with his guns and totally.
• 35:37
  And I remember I'm watching and I'm going and.
• 35:40
  And the. There's a lot of reaction shots
• 35:42
  in that. Yeah.
• 35:43
  Where the characters are kind of like their eyes are watching it
• 35:47
  all intense like Bill Paxton's like.
• 35:49
  Yeah. And meanwhile, doc's there and
• 35:51
  he's like. He's like asleep.
• 35:57
  He's truly going to whoop Dee Doo, you know what I mean?
• 36:02
  That is the physical representation of whoop Dee Doo.
• 36:05
  Indeed he. Is that's.
• 36:11
  Well good for you Johnny. Whoop Dee Doo, look at me with
• 36:14
  my cock. Whoop Dee Doo.
• 36:16
  OK, but we should go back to the gun stuff.
• 36:18
  OK, so it does it. Does this movie glorify gun
• 36:21
  violence? I maybe.
• 36:23
  But I think probably. Probably because the gun stuff
• 36:26
  is like, yeah, it's, it's supposed to be like, cool.
• 36:29
  I think it's a bridge too far to hang that much on this movie
• 36:33
  alone. No, Yeah, I think I I agree.
• 36:36
  With you, just because this was sort of the way of doing things
• 36:40
  back then in terms of movies, there was a lot of gun play in
• 36:43
  movies. And like I, I think of even like
• 36:46
  Odell Roby in, in Jackie Brown talking about he's like, I got
• 36:51
  this gun because the dude on New York undercover had this gun.
• 36:54
  So because of that dude, I'm going to sell this dude, this,
• 36:57
  this gun for this much money. So you see guns on TV, you see
• 37:01
  guns and movies and perhaps that influences the culture.
• 37:05
  I I think you can't ignore it, but to hang that much on on pop
• 37:10
  culture portrayals I think is misdirected if you overrate
• 37:14
  that. I think so too, because like
• 37:16
  they also were showing that people were just obnoxiously
• 37:23
  like trigger happy. Like when people are in the play
• 37:26
  and instead of applauding they all just shoot their guns in the
• 37:29
  air. That was so fun.
• 37:30
  Like that was satirical. I thought that was hilarious.
• 37:33
  Yeah, they're shooting at the at the actors and stuff, Yeah.
• 37:36
  Exactly. And like when, when that guy
• 37:40
  Curly Q or what's Curly Bill, Curly Bill when he's when he
• 37:45
  like, is just shooting around just terrorizing this town.
• 37:48
  Yeah, it was. It was to the level of satire of
• 37:51
  being like, Oh my God, like shooting a gun is so entrenched
• 37:55
  in everything in daily life for these people.
• 37:58
  Yeah, in a way that is just ridiculous.
• 38:01
  And so. Very cosmopolitan.
• 38:03
  Very cosmopolitan. But Powers Booth is savage in
• 38:07
  this movie as Curly Bill. Yeah, he, like, I hate him so
• 38:11
  much and he's so easy to hate him and Ike, Yeah.
• 38:14
  Great villains and their faces are always dirty.
• 38:17
  You just do not have access to the same like bathing stuff that
• 38:22
  the other guys do because they're all the other guys are
• 38:25
  always just like. Impeccably.
• 38:28
  Groomed, groomed, impeccably groomed.
• 38:30
  The other guys like truly look like someone just grabbed a
• 38:33
  handful of dirt and went like that, you know?
• 38:36
  Yeah, when we first meet Curly Bill, they're taking out, you
• 38:39
  know, the Mexican police. Yeah, and the the groom, it's a
• 38:42
  wedding and the groom is like you go to hell and Powers Booth
• 38:46
  is like you first and then shoots him and I'm like that is
• 38:49
  cold blooded man. So cold blooded.
• 38:51
  So him and Ringo like and I, the whole the whole gang.
• 38:55
  I mean, they are really, really they're like intimidating
• 39:00
  villains. They are you go, these guys are
• 39:02
  legit. Because you know that they don't
• 39:04
  give a fuck. No, they don't at all.
• 39:06
  They they truly will just go for it.
• 39:09
  They're like I have nothing to lose.
• 39:11
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:12
  Yeah, no, they're, they're frightening dudes, The.
• 39:14
  Yeah, the whole cowboy gang. And I loved how they referred to
• 39:17
  him as it's like the first organized crime in America.
• 39:20
  Yeah. Which, you know, you don't
• 39:22
  associate that sort of picture with the American West, but it
• 39:27
  it existed. I mean, it certainly did if you
• 39:28
  like, if you just do even a modicum of research on this
• 39:31
  movie, it is like a lot of the stuff is taken from real life.
• 39:35
  Yeah. And so it's, you know,
• 39:36
  glamorized and changed and whatever, but the fact that
• 39:40
  organized crime did exist out here is just, I, I don't know,
• 39:44
  it was something that I grappled with a little bit because you
• 39:47
  associate that with like Al Capone or like the East Coast,
• 39:51
  you know, New York, Chicago, whatever.
• 39:53
  You're a cosmopolitan, you might say.
• 39:54
  You might. Yeah, totally.
• 39:58
  They really are like the original organized crime.
• 40:02
  But I think that something is something that really struck me
• 40:05
  was that even though we have like kind of the good guys
• 40:09
  versus the bad guys, the quote UN quote good guys, they say
• 40:14
  that they're just trying to disarm the Cowboys.
• 40:17
  They're not. They're looking for a fight.
• 40:20
  Everyone here is looking for a fight.
• 40:22
  Even Doc Holiday, just walking corpse dead already, just wants
• 40:28
  to get his kicks and kills them. People.
• 40:32
  Well, I mean, I agree with you to a point, OK, But if Wyatt's
• 40:36
  gone, Doc's gone. Because the thing about Shader
• 40:39
  in the movie, Yeah. When he's like, he's like, why
• 40:42
  are you here, Doc? You should be in bed resting.
• 40:44
  Yeah, He goes. Wyatt Earp is my friend.
• 40:46
  Yeah, Hell, I got lots of friends.
• 40:49
  And Doc's like. I don't.
• 40:50
  Yeah, So. That's beautiful.
• 40:53
  Because The thing is, like Doc has a lot of contacts.
• 40:57
  He has a lot of acquaintances. He has a lot of people who would
• 40:59
  call who would say, oh, I'm a friend of his, but he wouldn't
• 41:02
  call them a friend. Yeah, no, that's definitely One
• 41:05
  Direction. Yeah.
• 41:06
  I mean, Verge doesn't even like Doc that much.
• 41:09
  Yeah. So Sam Elliott, he's like, he's
• 41:12
  like, man, I miss Doc. And Sam Elliott goes, I don't.
• 41:15
  I don't. OK, Virg.
• 41:18
  I know I kind of loved that. Yeah, I did too.
• 41:20
  But I mean, like, there's shades to each character.
• 41:23
  And Speaking of the gun violence, I I will say at least
• 41:26
  this movie demonstrates how severe, like a gunshot actually
• 41:30
  is. There's that whole awful scene
• 41:32
  with Bill Paxton, you know, as Morgan on that pool table, and
• 41:36
  they're trying to dig the slug out of him and that dog is
• 41:38
  barking. Oh my God.
• 41:39
  That scene is rough. That is tough.
• 41:41
  But I think that is a needed sort of antidote, Yeah, to all
• 41:46
  the glamorizing of guns. It's like, Oh no, this is what
• 41:49
  actually happens when you fire, when you shoot someone with a
• 41:51
  gun. Completely.
• 41:53
  And you know what? I was watching the movie Sinners
• 41:56
  last week. Have you seen Sinners yet?
• 41:58
  No, I have to. I cannot wait.
• 42:00
  It's great, but there's, I'm not spoiling anything by saying
• 42:04
  this, but there's a scene where a couple of people get shot
• 42:07
  almost as kind of like a like a joke.
• 42:10
  It's just like, oh, you shot me in the knee, you bastard, you
• 42:13
  know, or like, like that type of thing.
• 42:17
  And it's like comparing that to this movie.
• 42:20
  It's like, OK, we are maybe even though this is such a glamorized
• 42:24
  version of the American West, at least we're grounded in a little
• 42:27
  bit of reality of like, yeah, if you get shot, that's bad.
• 42:33
  It's gonna hurt a lot and it's gonna be gross.
• 42:37
  You. Know folks, you heard it here
• 42:38
  first. If you get shot, it's bad.
• 42:40
  It's. Bad.
• 42:42
  It's it's a hot take, Molly. Yeah, I know.
• 42:45
  That's why we're here to get me on the mic to say those.
• 42:48
  Hot drop truth bombs like that. Truth bombs and get people
• 42:52
  arguing on the Internet. 100%. That's what I want to hear.
• 42:55
  Getting shot, not happy. Not not good, not good.
• 42:59
  You want to avoid that, in my opinion.
• 43:03
  Yeah, way to throw that caveat out there.
• 43:05
  So it's not a blanket statement. I'm not going to say that.
• 43:07
  For all the people pro getting shot.
• 43:09
  Yeah, totally. I would say maybe rethink that,
• 43:12
  perhaps think about that. OK.
• 43:15
  When Wyatt gives Doc the badge. Oh my God.
• 43:20
  So again, a love story. Yeah.
• 43:23
  Well, it's because Doc asked for it, because he knows he's going
• 43:27
  to go kill Ringo and he needs it to be legal.
• 43:29
  Yeah, but yeah, he's like, what's it feel like to wear one
• 43:32
  of those? Yeah, it's like the it's not
• 43:35
  only a strategic move, but it's so sentimental I kind.
• 43:38
  Of love. No, it's, yeah, it's, it's given
• 43:42
  Doc a piece of jewelry. Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:45
  Yeah, You know what? There is this one part, though,
• 43:49
  that really took me out of, like, the beauty of this, you
• 43:52
  know, like male friendship and tenderness was when Doc is.
• 43:56
  I think it's when he's on his deathbed and he's like, I was in
• 43:59
  love with my first cousin. Oh.
• 44:00
  My God. But then she joined the convent.
• 44:07
  I'm like, oh, I almost was really engaged in this.
• 44:11
  Yeah, that one grinds her brain to a halt.
• 44:14
  Look, I know that people were dating and marrying and like
• 44:18
  having children with their first cousins back then, but I just
• 44:21
  didn't think that was necessary. Who?
• 44:24
  Why did they have to do that? Even if it's true or not.
• 44:28
  Exactly. It's like, why couldn't you just
• 44:30
  say I was in love once and then she joined the convent?
• 44:32
  Why did he have to say my first cousin?
• 44:35
  I not. Even just my cousin, he's like
• 44:38
  my first cousin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:41
  No, yeah, our parents were siblings.
• 44:45
  You know my parents, siblings, that we have the same
• 44:49
  grandparents, yeah. Gross.
• 44:54
  But I I will say like, OK, so that's one thing I've never ever
• 44:57
  understood what the cousin. Thing the cousin.
• 45:00
  Well, that's good. Well.
• 45:01
  Yeah, really. But OK, even think about
• 45:04
  something like even The Big Bang Theory, right?
• 45:07
  Because which, you know, have whatever opinion you want about
• 45:10
  that show, but it ran forever. It was insanely popular.
• 45:14
  And there there's a subplot about how Howard, one of the
• 45:17
  characters, the 1st girl he ever makes out with her maybe even
• 45:21
  sleeps with, is his cousin You. What?
• 45:24
  Yeah, that's so and so like it's, it's a thing.
• 45:27
  Sometimes it pops up in pop culture and I go is this like
• 45:30
  more common then like is? This happening.
• 45:33
  Like are the like turn into Jerry Seinfeld?
• 45:36
  I'm like, who are the people? People.
• 45:39
  Yeah. No, I don't.
• 45:40
  So I think, yeah, they threw it in there and let's just say it's
• 45:45
  really, really not for us. It's really, really not.
• 45:49
  It's really, really not for me. Yeah.
• 45:51
  I really didn't need that in like, sort of this, this
• 45:56
  beautiful, like culminating moment of friendship and valor
• 46:02
  and all that. I didn't need him to say, yeah,
• 46:03
  I was in love with my first cousin.
• 46:06
  You know what? I have chosen to ignore that
• 46:07
  every single time I have watched this movie.
• 46:10
  Yeah, and now you brought it up and I go, oh, right.
• 46:12
  That's why I choose to ignore it.
• 46:13
  That's why we ignore it. Yeah, well.
• 46:18
  There's kind of this like recurring theme throughout the
• 46:22
  movie where people are asking each other like, what do you
• 46:24
  want? Like what do you want out of
• 46:27
  life? And I thought that it was a very
• 46:30
  like, I don't know. The way that they asked these
• 46:34
  questions of each other is not the way that real people talk.
• 46:37
  When you like upon first meeting someone like when Josephine and
• 46:41
  Wyatt are having their first encounter and she's like, what
• 46:44
  do you think is the meaning of life like?
• 46:47
  A stranger. Yeah, exactly.
• 46:49
  Like that's like the manic Pixie dream girl fantasy, obviously.
• 46:53
  Is that like you're just waiting around for someone to ask you
• 46:56
  like, what is the purpose of your life and how are you going
• 46:58
  to achieve that? And you're like, my purpose is
• 47:01
  to have fun. You happen upon a beautiful,
• 47:05
  free spirited girl. Yeah, who asks you the right
• 47:07
  questions that unlock your soul? Yeah, exactly.
• 47:10
  So you're right, that is totally a fantasy and people don't ask
• 47:14
  questions like that. But I'll tell you this, in terms
• 47:16
  of this movie, I do appreciate the spirit of the intent here
• 47:21
  because it it wrestles with sort of existential things.
• 47:24
  Because you look at someone like Virgil, who you know, he's drawn
• 47:28
  to the law. He wants order, he wants a quiet
• 47:30
  life and he achieves that for himself.
• 47:32
  Wyatt wants to get out of the law business and find his
• 47:35
  fortune. And so they're sort of grappling
• 47:38
  with the bigger questions instead of the drudgery of the
• 47:40
  day-to-day, which you can kind of get bogged down.
• 47:42
  And so in in the way that this movie is romantic, in the way
• 47:47
  that it treats Wyatt and Doc, it's also romantic in the way
• 47:50
  that it's sort of approaches the big questions of life.
• 47:52
  Yeah. It's.
• 47:53
  Weird ways. It is very much like the I mean,
• 47:57
  that's sort of the allure of the American Western, right?
• 48:00
  Is that you? It's all about like men deciding
• 48:06
  their like fate for themselves. You know what I mean?
• 48:10
  Yeah, being able to be self determined and self possessed.
• 48:14
  Yeah, Yeah, yeah. No, I agree.
• 48:15
  And I mean, it's what, 1879 when this movie takes place.
• 48:20
  Yeah. And that is the province of men
• 48:23
  only, which it does bear mention, which, you know, Yeah.
• 48:27
  Sucks we can't rewrite history. Exactly.
• 48:29
  Yeah, that's The thing is I feel so conflicted about, you know,
• 48:33
  sort of the the Bechdel test failure of it all.
• 48:37
  Because on the one hand, yeah, it's that's very reflective of
• 48:42
  the time that women would be like, shut up, just go drink
• 48:46
  your opium and die. Not to put too fine a point on
• 48:53
  it. Yeah.
• 48:54
  You know, not to be dramatic or anything, but like, but then at
• 49:00
  the same time it's like, OK, well, does that mean that we
• 49:03
  can't create any complex female characters in a story that takes
• 49:08
  place in this like in like a period piece or historical
• 49:13
  fiction? I don't know.
• 49:15
  I will say, did you see the movie The Quick and the Dead?
• 49:17
  No, never seen. It okay that one is a western.
• 49:19
  It's pretty good. Sharon Stone plays a really good
• 49:21
  character in that movie. She's like a gunfighter who's
• 49:25
  really, really cool. So cool.
• 49:26
  So yeah, Hell yeah. But I mean, that's like one
• 49:29
  example in a sea of just masculinity where there, you
• 49:33
  know, where there are no real good female characters or you
• 49:37
  think, God, there was a movie that I dated a girl in high
• 49:39
  school. They love this movie called
• 49:41
  Paint Your Wagon. OK.
• 49:43
  Do you know this one? No.
• 49:44
  Oh my God. So it's like it's a Clint
• 49:48
  Eastwood and Lee Marvin and some other really big tough guy, I
• 49:54
  want to say Charles Bronson, but that can't be right.
• 49:57
  But it's a fucking musical. They move out West and they,
• 50:04
  they all sing. So it's a musical.
• 50:05
  They all sing songs and like they, they get women out there
• 50:09
  and they basically line up the women for the men to pick from.
• 50:13
  It's horrifying. I saw that movie like 3 times
• 50:17
  because against my will. That's horrible.
• 50:20
  Yeah. And by the way, you don't want
• 50:21
  to see Lee Marvin singing because Lee Marvin is like the,
• 50:24
  the all time like male archetype.
• 50:26
  Yeah, just like this cool guy and he, you know, he was in The
• 50:28
  Dirty Dozen and shit, and he's singing these songs about love
• 50:32
  on the frontier. Oh no.
• 50:36
  So but that that movie has a lot of female characters, none of
• 50:38
  them good. I don't know why I brought this
• 50:40
  up. I think he needed to just kind
• 50:43
  of air that out, OK. Well, thank you.
• 50:45
  I think he needed to just get that out, yeah.
• 50:48
  Well, and as a man, my feelings are clearly most important here,
• 50:51
  right? So I mean, that's what we're
• 50:52
  talking. About, obviously, yes.
• 50:55
  Now I'm mortified. Don't be embarrassed.
• 50:58
  We're all friends here. Thank you.
• 51:00
  I want to go back to to Kurt Russell.
• 51:05
  Yeah. Talk about him for a minute.
• 51:06
  First of all, so hot. Yeah.
• 51:08
  Second of all, great in this role.
• 51:10
  Third of all, fantastic mustache.
• 51:14
  But one thing that I didn't know about this movie before, I did
• 51:18
  like a little bit of reading on it is just like how involved he
• 51:22
  was in directing the food. I didn't know the whole back
• 51:26
  story of like how they had a director and then they had to
• 51:29
  fire him after a month and then they hired another director.
• 51:32
  And then people are saying that Kurt Russell was kind of the the
• 51:35
  real director behind the scenes. I think that's probably true.
• 51:40
  I do too, and Kurt Russell is very coy when he answers
• 51:45
  questions about this. Yeah, yeah, I watched this
• 51:47
  really good GQ interview with. Him is that the iconic roles one
• 51:51
  yeah, I love those when I love that I watched all those iconic
• 51:55
  roles that GQ does nice yeah I love those yeah so yeah he's
• 51:58
  very cagey about the way he answers but the room.
• 52:01
  You can tell what he. Yeah, You know, Yeah.
• 52:04
  Like, And if you read the IMDb trivia, Val Kilmer has a quote
• 52:09
  about it, too. He's like, you know, we would go
• 52:12
  up and Kurt, after we'd shoot all day, Kurt would go up and
• 52:14
  make the shot lists for the next day.
• 52:16
  Yeah. And so that guy who directed the
• 52:19
  George P Cosmatos came to the project.
• 52:21
  This is the rumor that I heard because Stallone was working on
• 52:24
  Rambo, right. And he's like, if you need a guy
• 52:28
  to sort of like, just be the director, he can.
• 52:30
  He can like, you know, compose a shot and he can get everyone
• 52:33
  where they need to be. But if you want to be your
• 52:35
  vision, this is your guy. Yeah.
• 52:37
  I think cuz mottos would probably take issue with that.
• 52:39
  Yeah. I don't know.
• 52:40
  I've never seen him interviewed ever.
• 52:42
  Yeah. But Kurt Russell asked for
• 52:45
  advice from Stallone, and Stallone gave him that advice
• 52:48
  and said this is the guy you need to do.
• 52:50
  And that's why Tombstone turned out the way it did.
• 52:52
  Yeah. Which I mean, Kurt.
• 52:54
  And so the other rumor is that Kurt Russell, like, cut down his
• 52:58
  own role as Wyatt Earp, too. Yeah.
• 53:00
  So, which I think is cool. I think that's cool too.
• 53:03
  Because here's the other thing. Did you do any reading about the
• 53:06
  other Wyatt Earp movie that came out right around the same time?
• 53:09
  Oh. The Kevin Costner one, yeah, OK,
• 53:11
  Yeah, I don't really know much about it.
• 53:12
  I know that it existed around the same time.
• 53:14
  I've tried to watch it, yeah it is a dull slog dude.
• 53:18
  Really. Because it's a mini series,
• 53:19
  right? And no, it's, it's, I think it's
• 53:21
  one movie. Wow.
• 53:23
  It's and it came out like within six months of tombstone.
• 53:25
  Wow did not do as well. Dennis Quaid plays Doc Holiday
• 53:32
  and I'm told he does a decent job.
• 53:34
  But I mean, come on, like after Val Kilmer does this role,
• 53:39
  anyone doing this role like it's just they're not going to fly.
• 53:43
  Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, Kurt Russell really did
• 53:46
  it all in this movie. I agree.
• 53:48
  He's a guy too, where when he shows up you go.
• 53:51
  This is probably going to be OK. 100%.
• 53:54
  You go, this is going to be all right.
• 53:55
  Overboard is entertaining. It's a it's like such a fucked
• 53:59
  up premise of a movie. But you watch, if you watch it
• 54:03
  with Kurt Russell and you're like, I'm on board, Overboard,
• 54:07
  I'm on board. You know what I'm saying?
• 54:10
  You should be jailed for that. One I know.
• 54:12
  I'm so sorry. No, that's awesome.
• 54:17
  There's a movie that's totally underrated that I actually saw
• 54:19
  in theaters. It's Kurt.
• 54:20
  It's a Kurt Russell movie. It's called Breakdown.
• 54:23
  And it's a nasty little like thriller suspense action movie.
• 54:28
  And it's it's like got this just really gritty, mean sensibility.
• 54:31
  But Kurt Russell does so much acting, like with his eyes in
• 54:34
  it. And so you can tell like
• 54:37
  everything that's going on beneath the surface.
• 54:39
  And the basic premise is these crazy rednecks sabotage his
• 54:45
  cars. He and his wife are driving
• 54:46
  across country. They're from Massachusetts.
• 54:48
  They're going to, I think, San Diego.
• 54:52
  And in the middle of like, the Utah desert, the car breaks
• 54:55
  down. She accepts a ride with a
• 54:57
  trucker. He says she'll take her to a pay
• 54:59
  phone to, you know, call a tow truck and all that, and then
• 55:03
  kidnaps her. And Kurt Russell has to work to
• 55:05
  get her back. Oh my God.
• 55:07
  It's like, it's like an all time nightmare scenario.
• 55:10
  Oh my God, Of course. And so, like, I kind of am
• 55:14
  uncomfortable watching it just because that whole idea is
• 55:17
  totally. But the movie itself is so well
• 55:20
  executed. It's really taught.
• 55:21
  It's really, it's thrilling. JT Walsh is in it.
• 55:24
  He's an all time kind of that guy.
• 55:26
  Yeah. Just anytime JT Walsh shows up,
• 55:28
  you're like, oh man, OK, this character is going to kick ass.
• 55:31
  Totally, totally. So like him as Markinson in in A
• 55:34
  Few Good Men. He's awesome in that, but
• 55:37
  breakdown Kurt Russell is just really kind of doing it all.
• 55:42
  So yeah, he's awesome. And miracle as Couture Brooks.
• 55:45
  Oh my God, absolutely. I love that movie.
• 55:47
  I. Do too.
• 55:48
  It's that one makes me feel. Good.
• 55:49
  That's a great dad movie. Yeah, I showed it to my kids.
• 55:52
  That's awesome. My my dad showed it to me.
• 55:55
  And the tradition goes. On and the tradition goes on.
• 55:59
  You know what Val Kelmer does that we really need to bring
• 56:03
  back? What's up?
• 56:04
  He winks really well. He's good at winking.
• 56:08
  People don't do that enough. People are not winking enough.
• 56:11
  No, you're right. But like right at the OK Corral
• 56:14
  gunfight, he's like. Yeah, Oh my God.
• 56:18
  And it's, it's hot. And Thomas Hayden Church, yeah,
• 56:21
  like, gets really, really mad at it because I think he's lightly
• 56:24
  turned on. I think, yeah, I think that he's
• 56:26
  just like, sexually frustrated a little bit.
• 56:29
  He's like, Dang it, you've done it again.
• 56:31
  Yeah, and then he ends up dead and.
• 56:34
  Then he dies. Yeah, and they carry him through
• 56:36
  and like, so weird with that shot of the corpses, they're all
• 56:39
  wearing all that makeup, like all the Rouge.
• 56:41
  Yeah. Well, that was fucking weird.
• 56:44
  Yeah. Why did they show that?
• 56:47
  You know what? I'm glad they did.
• 56:48
  Again, this is the this is what happens when you fuck with guns.
• 56:51
  Absolutely. Because it did make me feel
• 56:53
  like, whoa, that is creepy. Yeah, yeah.
• 56:58
  And then they're walking through this the, the town, and they're
• 57:00
  holding up a protest sign. Yeah.
• 57:02
  And I'm going like, murdered on the streets of Tombstone.
• 57:05
  Yeah. And I'm going, good God, man.
• 57:07
  Like we are not that far away. Yeah.
• 57:11
  From this entire energy. Like, you can, you can change
• 57:13
  the players, but we still got people marching in the street
• 57:16
  protesting deaths from the hands of law enforcement.
• 57:19
  Yeah, like the Cowboys in this case are dead wrong.
• 57:22
  Yeah, Like, they're clearly villains.
• 57:24
  But the the entire construction of people marching in the street
• 57:28
  to protest their dead friend who was killed by law enforcement,
• 57:31
  you go holy shit. Like, holy shit.
• 57:33
  That that has been the entire history of this country, period.
• 57:37
  So in terms of like aging, Yeah, that when I thought about that,
• 57:41
  you know, through the lens of this podcast, the central
• 57:43
  question of this show, I thought this movie's aged really
• 57:46
  interestingly in that particular way.
• 57:49
  Yeah, the the element of law enforcement and how the American
• 57:54
  West is built around this, like, you know, tension of lawlessness
• 57:58
  versus the, you know, the strong arm of the law attempts, you
• 58:05
  know, like it's, it's really interesting to be put in this
• 58:09
  position of like we're we're seeing the protagonists as kind
• 58:14
  of these men who are on the side of the law, but they're also
• 58:18
  kind of not. They're sort of unwilling.
• 58:21
  Yeah. Like avatars for that, because
• 58:24
  it's like, it's like they're for, they're called into
• 58:25
  service, right? They're compelled into service.
• 58:28
  They, yeah, exactly. They're kind of the reluctant
• 58:30
  hero. But then even when the mayor is
• 58:32
  like, I'm going to have to arrest you, he's like, no, he's
• 58:36
  like, I don't think you're going to arrest me today or whatever.
• 58:39
  No, I don't think I'm going to allow you to arrest.
• 58:41
  I don't think I'm going to allow you to arrest us today.
• 58:43
  So it's like they're still, they're not just like living
• 58:45
  within the, the, the bounds of the law.
• 58:49
  I mean, I mean, as if law enforcement lives within the
• 58:53
  bounds of the law too, you know what I mean?
• 58:55
  But it's just like, yeah, there is this really interesting
• 58:59
  central tension between like, I don't know.
• 59:02
  No, I agree with you 100%. Because, you know, one of the
• 59:06
  one of the main scenes in the movie is when they decide
• 59:09
  they're gonna go after all the Cowboys and end the cowboy gang,
• 59:11
  and he says you tell him I'm coming and Hell's coming with
• 59:14
  me. Which is an awesome scene,
• 59:16
  right? Awesome.
• 59:17
  But then I think about the actual sort of repercussions of
• 59:20
  vigilante justice. Yeah.
• 59:21
  Which man? That comes at a cost.
• 59:24
  Like, yeah. And it's the people who fancy
• 59:27
  themselves vigilantes aren't always right either.
• 59:30
  Exactly. And so, you know, you see
• 59:32
  something like this, you go, well, obviously they were right.
• 59:34
  So if if you have that sort of impulse about you, you go, I
• 59:38
  must be right, too. And so I think there's danger in
• 59:41
  that a little bit. And not to turn into fucking tip
• 59:44
  or gore here. I mean, yeah, right.
• 59:46
  Still. But I think, I think if you
• 59:49
  internalize that kind of energy too much, yeah, you're you're
• 59:53
  going to derange yourself. 100% So I just like, yeah, I don't
• 59:58
  think anyone should be trusted to know what if they're like on
• 1:00:01
  the right side of history. Yeah, you know, I mean, unless
• 1:00:05
  what you're doing is being used to oppress other people, then
• 1:00:08
  you can pretty safely say you're on the wrong side.
• 1:00:10
  On the wrong side of history. Yeah, totally.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah. God, it's tough.
• 1:00:17
  It's tough because I'm like, this isn't copaganda because
• 1:00:21
  this is a Western. But I do get any time that
• 1:00:24
  they're like, yeah, some sheriff's in town, I'm like, I
• 1:00:28
  don't know about that. I have a question for you.
• 1:00:31
  Just this is related to this movie, but it was just something
• 1:00:35
  that kind of came up. And it's a benign question, but
• 1:00:37
  have you ever ridden a horse? I have, yeah.
• 1:00:40
  Like a lot. No, like a few times.
• 1:00:42
  OK, like how many times? Like 3 times that I can
• 1:00:45
  remember. OK, because I've done it maybe 6
• 1:00:50
  to 10 times in my life. OK.
• 1:00:52
  Like when I was a kid, we went up to this dude ranch a couple
• 1:00:55
  of times. So I've done like long trail
• 1:00:57
  rides, like, oh, that's cool. You ride up a a mountain and
• 1:01:00
  then they, like, make griddle pancakes for you and stuff real
• 1:01:03
  like Old West cowboy shit. Love that.
• 1:01:05
  And you know, I'm like 9 years old.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah. And to this day, the best
• 1:01:08
  pancakes I've ever eaten. I am.
• 1:01:10
  Sure, just because you're in the secluded little mountain.
• 1:01:13
  That sounds so. Cool.
• 1:01:14
  But yeah, riding a horse is. I mean, it's kind of fun.
• 1:01:17
  And so when you watch this movie and there's a lot of really cool
• 1:01:22
  riding, Yeah. Like when they're chasing down
• 1:01:24
  the Cowboys and Wyatt like hides behind like the head of his
• 1:01:28
  horse and then like puts the gun that was.
• 1:01:30
  Really. That was really cool, yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Yeah. So like, you know, in terms of
• 1:01:36
  no, that's going to be the wrong term.
• 1:01:37
  I was going to say horse porn. Oh my God.
• 1:01:41
  But you know, like lifestyle porn, you know, like that kind
• 1:01:44
  of thing. I mean, I know what you mean.
• 1:01:45
  Oh. My God, wrong terminology.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah, but so not that. But in terms of, like, in terms
• 1:01:56
  of, you know, watching a lifestyle and going, oh, man,
• 1:02:01
  like, I should get out there. We live in Colorado.
• 1:02:04
  I should go ride a horse. Like, I should find a place
• 1:02:06
  where I could do a trail ride occasionally.
• 1:02:07
  Yeah, like, guys. Absolutely.
• 1:02:09
  And take my kids to go do a trail ride.
• 1:02:11
  Like, just have them experience what it's like to be on a horse.
• 1:02:14
  They they did the pony ride. Yeah.
• 1:02:16
  At the stock show. But that's just a bunch of sad
• 1:02:19
  ass old ponies walking in a circle.
• 1:02:21
  Yeah. You know.
• 1:02:22
  But but yeah. So what was your experience like
• 1:02:25
  riding a horse? OK, so I rode a horse at a
• 1:02:31
  summer camp and then also at like a family reunion.
• 1:02:36
  It was just kind of like a, yeah, like a trail ride kind of
• 1:02:39
  thing. Like what?
• 1:02:39
  Like an hour. Yeah, like an hour.
• 1:02:41
  Oh I also I also rode a horse once on a like on a beach.
• 1:02:47
  In. Wow, California.
• 1:02:49
  That sounds hot. So hot.
• 1:02:51
  I was in like 7th grade. Less hot now.
• 1:02:53
  Less hot now, but it was just like, I mean, it's cool, but I
• 1:02:59
  think horses are so scary. I respect them and they 'cause
• 1:03:04
  they could just like, kill you so easy.
• 1:03:08
  Yeah, they're gigantic. Giant.
• 1:03:09
  Creatures. They are gigantic.
• 1:03:11
  Like all love and respect to all the horse girls and all the
• 1:03:14
  horses out there, but I would say I like my first reaction to
• 1:03:21
  like horseback riding is fear. You know I.
• 1:03:25
  Think that's fair? We did.
• 1:03:28
  So the trail rides we did, some of them were really long and we
• 1:03:31
  were on horses for like 4 or five hours a day.
• 1:03:33
  And you get off of that and you I have never had my legs be more
• 1:03:38
  sore. Oh I can.
• 1:03:39
  I can't even imagine. Because yeah, you're, you're
• 1:03:41
  riding like this and you kind of got to squeeze a little bit.
• 1:03:43
  Yeah. And my God, when you get off
• 1:03:45
  like you feel like your legs are not going to work.
• 1:03:48
  Totally. Yeah.
• 1:03:49
  And these guys are riding horses like it's nothing.
• 1:03:52
  Yeah. Yeah, it's fun to watch though.
• 1:03:55
  It is really fun to watch. OK, is there anything else that
• 1:03:58
  we need to discuss? I mean God, this.
• 1:04:01
  Now we've we've covered this in in pretty good depth, I think.
• 1:04:04
  I think we have. Two, I mean, do you think that
• 1:04:06
  it holds up? Do you think it age as well?
• 1:04:09
  I do. I I think it.
• 1:04:11
  OK, So my very first note, the very first thing you hear in
• 1:04:15
  this movie is this booming, masculine voice come in and be
• 1:04:18
  like, 1879. The Civil War is over.
• 1:04:22
  The voice over tells you exactly what this movie is going to be.
• 1:04:25
  Yeah. Right up front.
• 1:04:26
  Yeah, which I kind of appreciate.
• 1:04:28
  If you misunderstand Tombstone after one minute in, you're a
• 1:04:32
  moron. What, like you.
• 1:04:36
  You know what you're getting here.
• 1:04:37
  You're gonna get some gun fighting.
• 1:04:39
  You're gonna get some horses. You're gonna get a portrayal of
• 1:04:41
  the Old West. What you're not expecting is a
• 1:04:44
  love story between Doc. Yeah.
• 1:04:47
  And Wyatt. Yeah.
• 1:04:48
  And so to that end, I think you go in with certain expectations
• 1:04:53
  and then if you're open to it, because I don't think everyone's
• 1:04:56
  going to pick up on that subtext just because they're not
• 1:04:58
  especially, like, the target audience for a movie like this.
• 1:05:01
  Yeah. They don't think of themselves
• 1:05:03
  as having male relationships that are like love stories.
• 1:05:05
  Yeah. And I, you know, I don't want to
• 1:05:07
  assign motive to anyone. I I don't know how people relate
• 1:05:11
  to things, but I think that is a surprising benefit, especially
• 1:05:16
  if you're open to it. So to me, you show up for fun
• 1:05:20
  western action. What you get is a very nice
• 1:05:25
  portrait of male affection. I totally agree.
• 1:05:30
  Like you get exactly what you paid for with this movie.
• 1:05:33
  And then and also, yeah. You get this bonus stuff, which
• 1:05:37
  is so cool. And then what keeps me coming
• 1:05:39
  back is, I mean, I could listen to Doc Holiday deliver lines all
• 1:05:45
  day. Yeah, like he, he gets delivered
• 1:05:47
  last rites and he goes. We're just exploring the
• 1:05:49
  complexities of the Roman church or whatever, he says.
• 1:05:52
  Yeah, it was so funny. Yeah, he's so cool.
• 1:05:55
  Yeah, I know I've said that like 10 times, but.
• 1:05:58
  It's true. You know what you you can't say
• 1:06:00
  it enough when it comes to Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday in this
• 1:06:03
  movie. So true.
• 1:06:04
  And Val Kilmer really doing anything.
• 1:06:07
  In my opinion, Oh no, 100% I. Hadn't seen anything that Val
• 1:06:10
  Kilmer was in that. I was like, I don't know, I
• 1:06:12
  would have cast someone else well.
• 1:06:15
  So like I I I got a fresh cut today.
• 1:06:18
  Very and and we all noticed that.
• 1:06:21
  Thank you. But the reason like one of the
• 1:06:25
  reasons I wear my hair up is actually Val Kilmer in Top Gun.
• 1:06:28
  That's. So cool.
• 1:06:29
  Because he inspired you. Oh, dude.
• 1:06:31
  So that movie comes out and he's cool.
• 1:06:33
  He's Iceman. He's Iceman and so I see him and
• 1:06:37
  I have stick straight hair. It's blonde and I I remember
• 1:06:41
  watching that movie and going I think that's attainable for me.
• 1:06:43
  I think that's attainable. Look.
• 1:06:45
  That is so cool because he is like in that movie, he is sort
• 1:06:48
  of an attainable hot, you know? Yeah, like in a way.
• 1:06:52
  He's sort of the, you know, just a little bit outside of reality.
• 1:06:57
  Hot, but not like so unattainable.
• 1:07:01
  He's not like Slider when like during the volleyball scene,
• 1:07:04
  when slider like hits that pose and you go, my God.
• 1:07:07
  That's yeah, you say we're not in reality anymore, but Val
• 1:07:11
  Kilmer and. That and by the way I had it
• 1:07:13
  that. Yeah, of course, of course.
• 1:07:16
  Anyway, so you were like, I could achieve that.
• 1:07:18
  And that was how your hair story.
• 1:07:20
  Was born. Well, yeah.
• 1:07:21
  And so that's because I have like, a round face too.
• 1:07:23
  So if I wear emo bangs, I just. I look like a fucking Charlie
• 1:07:26
  Brown character because my face is like, really randomly.
• 1:07:29
  So like, I need some height to lengthen this out.
• 1:07:32
  Yeah. Yeah, of course.
• 1:07:33
  And so it was Val Kilmer as Iceman.
• 1:07:35
  And then later it was Dickie Barrett from the mighty mighty
• 1:07:38
  Boss Tones, who I saw when I saw them play on SNL.
• 1:07:42
  Like, Chris Farley was hosting, I think a couple of weeks before
• 1:07:45
  he died. But the boss tones were the
• 1:07:48
  musical guest. I see Dicky up there in his
• 1:07:50
  sunglasses, in his, like, spikes is the black spikes.
• 1:07:54
  And he's wearing a dope suit. And I go, OK, that's what we're
• 1:07:57
  going to do. So you're going to love this
• 1:07:59
  story. I took a Polaroid camera.
• 1:08:02
  I had that episode of SNL recorded on VHS.
• 1:08:06
  I love where this is going. I paused.
• 1:08:08
  I paused. It took Polaroid photos of my
• 1:08:11
  TV. Awesome.
• 1:08:12
  And took it to Supercuts. You said give me this.
• 1:08:14
  I go can you please make my hair look like this?
• 1:08:16
  Wow. And the guy who I gave it to did
• 1:08:19
  not do a good job. And that's not your fault.
• 1:08:21
  No, you. I imagine that you really
• 1:08:24
  captured what you want to capture.
• 1:08:26
  You know, with the technology that was available at the time.
• 1:08:29
  Of course you did. But you could.
• 1:08:31
  Yeah, I did, but it took about 10 haircuts for me to get the
• 1:08:35
  vocabulary right, to ask for what I wanted.
• 1:08:37
  Nice. And then from there, yeah, it's
• 1:08:39
  been some variation of that more or less ever since.
• 1:08:41
  Wow. That's amazing.
• 1:08:43
  I mean, that was 30 years ago. Almost 40 now.
• 1:08:47
  Wow. Yeah.
• 1:08:49
  Crazy. So, and I mean Top Guns, one of
• 1:08:51
  those movies, it's on all the time, just like Tombstone.
• 1:08:53
  I just feel like even though, even though it is sort of just
• 1:08:59
  like a classic blockbuster action movie, it had, I got more
• 1:09:08
  than what I what I bargained for sure, and I am grateful for
• 1:09:11
  that. Yeah, well, I'm glad I was able
• 1:09:13
  to be the one to introduce you to this movie.
• 1:09:15
  And thank you for. That, yeah.
• 1:09:16
  I appreciate that. You know what, dude?
• 1:09:18
  As a dad, you got to. You got to pay for the good dad
• 1:09:21
  energy when you can't. Got to pay it forward and you
• 1:09:24
  have, and I appreciate that, John, what a blast this was.
• 1:09:30
  This was so fun. What would you like to leave the
• 1:09:33
  listeners with? So if you want to check out, as
• 1:09:37
  I always say on your show, if you enjoy my particular brand of
• 1:09:39
  horseshit, yeah, you can find me at Off the Clock with John X,
• 1:09:43
  that's OTC john.com and the social handles I think are all
• 1:09:47
  now OTC John. I think I switched them all.
• 1:09:50
  I was in like Facebook jail trying to change the name.
• 1:09:53
  And that might still be JOAT Pod, but I'd also like to throw
• 1:09:57
  a plug for Sorry Sweetheart, which is one of the best bands
• 1:10:00
  in Denver. They did my theme song.
• 1:10:02
  They are so good. They are ska, punk, metal, and
• 1:10:07
  you've heard my theme song. It's unhinged.
• 1:10:10
  It's so fun. Yeah, it's, it's like a punch in
• 1:10:13
  the face, in a good way. In a really good way.
• 1:10:14
  In a way that also has some. Yeah, Trombone.
• 1:10:19
  We love that. 100%, So no, I just like to say I getting to
• 1:10:25
  sit down and do this with you. I've been looking forward to it
• 1:10:27
  for a long time. Oh.
• 1:10:28
  My gosh, same. Dude, and like all day I've been
• 1:10:31
  thinking about this and just been ready for it and so Oh my
• 1:10:33
  God, thank you for doing what you do and letting me be a part
• 1:10:35
  of your little world. Oh my God, Of course.
• 1:10:37
  Thank you for being a part of our little world.
• 1:10:39
  This is like, this is the best. Yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Truly the best. SO listeners, definitely be sure
• 1:10:44
  to check out John's podcast. You can hear me talking more
• 1:10:50
  about just a whole bunch of silly stuff, but also some
• 1:10:53
  serious stuff on our episode that we did together, but a lot
• 1:10:57
  of other really cool guests and, you know, just be good to each
• 1:11:02
  other. Yeah, anytime you have me on,
• 1:11:05
  I'm your huckleberry. Get out of here.
• 1:11:14
  Who guns one for each of you? All right, get out of here.
• 1:11:18
  All right, bye, bye.