Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / GASLIT: GM Perry Minasian called out for selling "an optimism not based in reality"

Transcript

GASLIT: GM Perry Minasian called out for selling "an optimism not based in reality" · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Well, hey Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo territory.
0:11
Speaker 2: I'm Mike D.
0:12
Speaker 1: Giovanna, former La Times baseball writer and host of the show,
0:16
Speaker 1: and I am joined today by two of the finest
0:18
Speaker 1: baseball writers in the country, Sam Bloma, the Athletic and
0:22
Speaker 1: Bill Shaking of the Los Angeles Times. My longtime friend
0:27
Speaker 1: and former colleague Bill, Sam. Welcome to show.
0:29
Speaker 2: How you guys doing today? Great?
0:32
Speaker 1: How are you.
0:35
Speaker 2: Vets?
0:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, grizzled sandwich Sam and Shakes wearing his halo red
0:41
Speaker 1: you see, claims he just pulled that one out of
0:43
Speaker 1: his drawer today. I don't know, Sam. We got a
0:45
Speaker 1: little halo honk on our hands.
0:46
Speaker 3: I mean we can't see below the collar.
0:48
Speaker 2: So is there a logo on their shake? I don't know.
0:54
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about our favorite topic today,
0:57
Speaker 1: Angels General manager Perryman's or some have started calling them,
1:02
Speaker 1: what is it? GMPM. Interesting little acronym there. In case
1:07
Speaker 1: Angel fans you hadn't noticed, our friend Perry came out
1:10
Speaker 1: of hiding this past week and he spoke to Sam
1:13
Speaker 1: Blum and as well as the Orange County Register at
1:16
Speaker 1: MLB dot com earlier in the week, and Bill shake
1:19
Speaker 1: and got a one on one interview with him on Wednesday.
1:23
Speaker 2: I believe, is that right shape? Yes.
1:25
Speaker 1: So, you know, we don't hear from Perry a lot,
1:27
Speaker 1: so especially on the record, And I will say I
1:32
Speaker 1: took this screenshot and it sort of shows you the
1:35
Speaker 1: different direction three members of the media took with this story.
1:40
Speaker 1: These are the three headlines MLB dot Com Manasium talks
1:44
Speaker 1: ways Halos can improve and what they're doing right. Orange
1:48
Speaker 1: County Register Angels GM Perrymanasium encouraged by what we could
1:52
Speaker 1: be and the Athletics slash. New York Times Angels GM
1:57
Speaker 1: Perrymansium is selling an optimism Not so Sam, Why don't
2:02
Speaker 1: we start what's going on here? You took a little
2:05
Speaker 1: different tact on this story, you know.
2:08
Speaker 3: I think what it's come to with Perry is that,
2:10
Speaker 3: you know, when he talks, you have to just be
2:12
Speaker 3: willing to, like, you know, fact check almost to some
2:15
Speaker 3: extent and push back on it because you know, it's
2:17
Speaker 3: not that he's necessarily like saying things that aren't factual.
2:20
Speaker 3: He's just, I think often times telling you something that
2:24
Speaker 3: doesn't really align with what you're watching. And so that's
2:27
Speaker 3: the way I see it. With the Angels, Like he
2:29
Speaker 3: makes all these comments about, you know, the strikeouts not
2:32
Speaker 3: necessarily being an issue, the you know, the pitching right
2:35
Speaker 3: around the corner. I mean, I've been hearing that for
2:37
Speaker 3: years now. I've been hearing about the Angels being on
2:39
Speaker 3: the precipice of finally breaking through constantly. And the thing
2:43
Speaker 3: that I wrote in this article, which is, you know,
2:45
Speaker 3: like Perry talks like he's earned this benefit of the
2:49
Speaker 3: doubt as a general manager when he's when in reality,
2:52
Speaker 3: he's got a record in the last five plus years
2:55
Speaker 3: that is more than one hundred games below five hundred.
2:58
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, at this point, I think you
3:00
Speaker 3: just have to say he's not doing a good job
3:02
Speaker 3: with this. And you know, I know everyone will point
3:05
Speaker 3: to all the other factors that make it a tough job,
3:07
Speaker 3: and those are all very legitimate and very fair. But
3:10
Speaker 3: Perry signed the contract extension. Perry's not delivered. He's spent
3:14
Speaker 3: on the bullpen. You can't look at the bullpen and say, oh, man,
3:17
Speaker 3: like that's an already problem. You got the money to
3:19
Speaker 3: spend there, and they did, and it's bad. It's like
3:21
Speaker 3: second worst bullpen in baseball and blown as many saves
3:24
Speaker 3: as anybody. So, uh, you know, we'll see where it
3:27
Speaker 3: ends up when all things are said and done. But
3:28
Speaker 3: I just don't know how you can kind of not
3:30
Speaker 3: push back on.
3:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those who don't get a subscription to The
3:34
Speaker 1: Athletic or New York Times, here was Sam's lead. If
3:37
Speaker 1: you ask Angels general manager Paramanzing about his team, everything
3:40
Speaker 1: is fine. Quote that'll work itself out, he said, of
3:43
Speaker 1: a bullpen whose meltdowns have contributed to the losses in
3:46
Speaker 1: twelve of fourteen games in American League worst Hypo typo.
3:53
Speaker 1: I know what's going on where your editors, Sam, quote,
3:56
Speaker 1: our best baseball is in front of us. There's no
3:59
Speaker 1: doubt about that, he said, of a team that's not
4:01
Speaker 1: even sniffed to five hundred record in his six seasons
4:03
Speaker 1: as GM. It's become the hallmark of a Manasian interview.
4:08
Speaker 1: Refusing to acknowledge the plainly obvious shortcomings of the roster,
4:12
Speaker 1: he constructs. I think as though the losses are happenstance,
4:16
Speaker 1: not the product of years of poor development, poor drafts,
4:18
Speaker 1: and poor spending. To Manasian, the Angels have been on
4:21
Speaker 1: the precipice of success for the last half dozen years.
4:26
Speaker 1: Outside of that, Sam, what were some of your other
4:28
Speaker 1: takeaways from this interview last week?
4:32
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's hard to like just sit
4:35
Speaker 3: there and kind of listen to it. And you know,
4:37
Speaker 3: I think the big thing that I take from Perry
4:39
Speaker 3: is that it's it's often times and I don't know,
4:41
Speaker 3: you know, Shake obviously spoke to him one on one,
4:43
Speaker 3: and I don't know if he kind of senses this too,
4:45
Speaker 3: But like, especially in these group settings, you know, Perry
4:48
Speaker 3: will often just like ask for follow up, ask follow
4:51
Speaker 3: up questions, for clarifications that are just utterly unnecessary. Like,
4:54
Speaker 3: you know, the first question I asked him was what
4:57
Speaker 3: is losing Kakuchi mean for your rotation? And he just says,
4:59
Speaker 3: as far as what I mean, he does that every
5:01
Speaker 3: time you could. I could ask him what the weather
5:02
Speaker 3: is and he'd be like, what do you mean? You know,
5:04
Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's because he's clocked, if
5:07
Speaker 3: that works against me, or he thought it. I don't
5:09
Speaker 3: really understand it because it's generally directed at me, but
5:12
Speaker 3: I don't it's just weird and and you know, to me,
5:16
Speaker 3: it's like these answers are for everybody, right, you might
5:20
Speaker 3: not agree with the questions or think that they're good,
5:23
Speaker 3: but I mean people want to know the answer to
5:24
Speaker 3: these questions. It's not about me. I really, you know,
5:27
Speaker 3: I barely cover this team at this point. To me,
5:30
Speaker 3: it's it's you just got to be able to be accountable,
5:32
Speaker 3: and that involves not responding to everything with you know,
5:36
Speaker 3: kind of a pushback. He knew that Jordan Romano question
5:39
Speaker 3: was coming about about the interaction between him and Kazuki
5:42
Speaker 3: and then releasing him later that day.
5:43
Speaker 2: He knew that question was coming.
5:45
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that was I'm you know, I mean,
5:48
Speaker 3: there's no way he could have got, you know, prepared
5:50
Speaker 3: for that interview or that that that scrum and not
5:52
Speaker 3: felt like he was going to be asked. Then he
5:53
Speaker 3: pretends he doesn't even know what's what I'm asking about,
5:56
Speaker 3: until he eventually concedes that he does.
5:58
Speaker 4: It's just weird. I don't know how else to it.
6:00
Speaker 3: And you know, listen, I hope someday this team figures
6:04
Speaker 3: it out. But I mean, right now, it's just like
6:06
Speaker 3: it doesn't look like the leadership is getting them there.
6:09
Speaker 2: It just doesn't.
6:10
Speaker 1: Let's turn to Shake's story in the La Times this
6:14
Speaker 1: past week, and here's an excerpt from what Bill Shaking
6:18
Speaker 1: wrote on the day of Manasians said he had quote
6:20
Speaker 1: no doubt better days were ahead for his team. The Angels,
6:23
Speaker 1: their Triple A affiliate, and their Double A affiliate affiliate
6:26
Speaker 1: all were in last place. Analysts parenally ranked the Angels
6:30
Speaker 1: farm system among baseball's worse. Manasian set, will put his
6:32
Speaker 1: faith in our four homegrown starters, Jose Soriano, Reed, Detmer's,
6:37
Speaker 1: Jack Kohanowitz, and Walbert Urania. They're combined era so far
6:40
Speaker 1: two point nine to nine.
6:42
Speaker 2: Quote.
6:43
Speaker 1: When you look at good teams and sustainable winners, they
6:46
Speaker 1: build rotations, whether that's through trades or free agency, or
6:50
Speaker 1: your own. Manasian said, we're doing it with our own.
6:53
Speaker 1: You can't microwave that overnight. Shake goes on to write,
6:58
Speaker 1: you can't make fans wait for for October either. Angel
7:01
Speaker 1: fans have heard enough about building a competitive team and
7:05
Speaker 1: needing patients. They have not seen their team in a
7:07
Speaker 1: playoff game in twelve years. When are they going to
7:10
Speaker 1: see that?
7:11
Speaker 2: Quote?
7:11
Speaker 1: I'm not in the prediction business, said Manasian, whose contract
7:14
Speaker 1: thespires after the season. They're going to see a team
7:17
Speaker 1: that plays hard every day. They're going to see young
7:21
Speaker 1: talented players day in and day out. Sheake tell us
7:25
Speaker 1: what you were sort of thinking is you wrote that
7:27
Speaker 1: and what yours takeaways were from your conversation with Perry.
7:32
Speaker 4: Well, you, Mike would remember, we were both around the
7:35
Speaker 4: Angels in the nineties, in that sort of rout period
7:39
Speaker 4: between the eighty six playoffs in the two thousand and
7:43
Speaker 4: two World Series, and it was a lot of what
7:46
Speaker 4: it looks like now. It was, you know, a lot
7:49
Speaker 4: of veteran guys who maybe had already had their past
7:53
Speaker 4: seasons coming in the von Hayes, Hube Brooks level guys,
7:57
Speaker 4: and then guys from a farm system that we heard
8:01
Speaker 4: we're building. And eventually those farm system guys did break
8:04
Speaker 4: through and they formed the core of the World Series team.
8:07
Speaker 4: But in the nineties, while the Angels were searching and
8:11
Speaker 4: lost in the wilderness. You know, I actually had somebody
8:14
Speaker 4: in the Angels front office tell me, don't say contend,
8:19
Speaker 4: say we're competing. We're trying to compete, And I fear
8:23
Speaker 4: that that's kind of where the Angels have gotten back to.
8:25
Speaker 3: Now.
8:26
Speaker 4: It's a lot of years with not a lot of
8:28
Speaker 4: progress and the idea of the team being competitive. While
8:34
Speaker 4: it's a nice first step is not the goal. The
8:37
Speaker 4: goal is to get to the playoffs and win, and
8:40
Speaker 4: you just don't see that progress that you would hope
8:43
Speaker 4: to see if you were a fan or frankly, if
8:45
Speaker 4: you were putting the team together.
8:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna take a quick break for a word
8:49
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. We'll be right back with more Halo territory.
8:54
Speaker 5: This episode is brought to you by fan Duel Baseball Fans,
8:57
Speaker 5: the MLB season is in full swing. Fan Duel is
9:00
Speaker 5: giving you a chance to call your shot with Daily Dingers.
9:04
Speaker 5: Joining the action is easy. Just make your free pick
9:06
Speaker 5: on who's hitting a home run in their game, and
9:08
Speaker 5: if you're right, you'll get a profit boost to use
9:10
Speaker 5: on your next bet for a chance at extra winnings.
9:13
Speaker 5: It's just another reason why FanDuel is the home of
9:16
Speaker 5: home run. So are you ready to play your game?
9:18
Speaker 5: Head over to FanDuel dot com slash podcast to get started.
9:23
Speaker 5: That's FanDuel dot com slash podcast. To opt in for
9:27
Speaker 5: Daily Dingers and make your free pick on who's hitting
9:30
Speaker 5: a homer. Playball and swing for the fences on FanDuel,
9:33
Speaker 5: an official partner of Major League Baseball. No purchase necessary.
9:37
Speaker 5: Opten required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens.
9:42
Speaker 5: Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount.
9:47
Speaker 5: See terms at sportsbook dot FanDuel dot com. Gambling problem
9:51
Speaker 5: call or text one eight hundred gambler.
9:55
Speaker 1: All right, Welcome back to Helo Territoria Mike Digievanna with
9:58
Speaker 1: Sam Blum of The Athletic and Bill Shaking of the
10:01
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Times. I'm going to read another expert excerpt
10:05
Speaker 1: from Sam's story to get under this part of the conversation.
10:09
Speaker 1: Sam writes Manasians press conferences feel like he's trying to
10:14
Speaker 1: convince people of something different than what they can see.
10:17
Speaker 1: Perhaps it's selling positivity to the fan base or selling
10:20
Speaker 1: a strong job performance to his boss, owner Ardi Moreno,
10:24
Speaker 1: who has to decide whether or not to extend manasians
10:26
Speaker 1: expiring contract. Time will tell if he's right about the
10:29
Speaker 1: direction of his club. The angel certainly has some talent,
10:32
Speaker 1: some popp and some guys of them pressive stats. In
10:34
Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks of the season. They played
10:37
Speaker 1: genuinely good baseball. But the problem that so often rears
10:40
Speaker 1: its head in Anaheim is a roster not truly built
10:43
Speaker 1: for one hundred and sixty two games, a system devoid
10:46
Speaker 1: of depth, health, and a development framework that should capitalize
10:49
Speaker 1: on the legitimate talent that does exist within those walls.
10:53
Speaker 1: I want to ask both of you, guys, I'm wondering,
10:57
Speaker 1: would your opinion, what our opinion, would the fans opinions
11:00
Speaker 1: of perryman asim be different if he didn't, if it
11:04
Speaker 1: didn't seem like he was trying to gaslight everybody so
11:07
Speaker 1: much like if he just made a bunch of trades
11:10
Speaker 1: or free agent acquisitions that just didn't work out, would
11:13
Speaker 1: he catch a little less heat from these fans?
11:16
Speaker 2: And maybe the absolutely yes.
11:18
Speaker 3: I mean I mean, listen, obviously, the the the you
11:22
Speaker 3: know you're gonna get heat if you lose, I mean,
11:23
Speaker 3: there's no doubt about that. But I think that if
11:25
Speaker 3: you can level with people and if you could explain
11:27
Speaker 3: a direction of some kind, ultimately people will buy into
11:30
Speaker 3: that and they will respect you for it. I mean
11:32
Speaker 3: it's you know, you're not gonna win over everybody, and
11:34
Speaker 3: and uh, but I think the Angels fan base isn't
11:38
Speaker 3: like a complicated one to figure out. I mean, they
11:40
Speaker 3: want to they want something to believe. They will sign
11:43
Speaker 3: up for a rebuild. You know, they'll sign up for
11:44
Speaker 3: pretty much anything if they feel like it's positive, they
11:47
Speaker 3: feel like it's going in the right direction. I mean,
11:49
Speaker 3: these guys will glom onto uh like a good start
11:52
Speaker 3: in low A if it if it makes them feel
11:54
Speaker 3: positive about the future.
11:55
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not that hard.
11:57
Speaker 2: You just cut.
11:57
Speaker 3: You have to be you have to level with people,
11:59
Speaker 3: I think. I mean, it's it's I think it's very simple,
12:02
Speaker 3: even like the whole idea that they've you know, got
12:05
Speaker 3: these four homegrown starters. That's true, but you know three
12:07
Speaker 3: of them were in the system before Perry even took
12:09
Speaker 3: this job, so it's you know, and one of them
12:13
Speaker 3: he let go initially. So I just I don't know, Like,
12:16
Speaker 3: to me, you just have to level with people. You
12:19
Speaker 3: can't just be telling them that you're doing such a
12:21
Speaker 3: great job and there's nothing to worry about.
12:22
Speaker 2: That upsets people.
12:23
Speaker 3: And I honestly think you know, you look earlier in
12:25
Speaker 3: this offseason already saying that you know, the fans don't
12:27
Speaker 3: prioritize winning. I just kind of think that the Angels
12:31
Speaker 3: treat their fans to some extent like they're not smart
12:34
Speaker 3: enough to understand this stuff. And it's just it's you know,
12:38
Speaker 3: fans are smarter than you think. I mean, if they're
12:40
Speaker 3: watching these games, they understand where the strengths are, where
12:43
Speaker 3: the weaknesses are, and where where the fault lies. And
12:46
Speaker 3: if you level with people, I ultimately think it helps.
12:49
Speaker 1: Shake and I both go back to the Mike Port,
12:52
Speaker 1: Whitey Herzon, Bill Bavasi days.
12:55
Speaker 2: But I don't know, Shake, I'm not.
12:57
Speaker 1: Sure we've seen a GM quite like Perry, and I'm
13:00
Speaker 1: not saying that in a positive way.
13:02
Speaker 2: Have you noticed that as well? This?
13:05
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate the term gaslighting. Gaslighting is pretty harsh,
13:08
Speaker 1: but I don't know how else you describe it at
13:11
Speaker 1: this point in time.
13:13
Speaker 4: You know, I think the X factor here is is
13:18
Speaker 4: Perry talking to a fan base or is he talking
13:22
Speaker 4: to an audience of one? Yes, politics, what you always
13:27
Speaker 4: hear is, you know, there are a lot of people
13:30
Speaker 4: who say a lot of things that come out don't
13:32
Speaker 4: sound the best, but they work in the administration, and
13:35
Speaker 4: people say, oh, he's they're speaking for an audience of one.
13:38
Speaker 4: There they represent the President of the United States, and
13:41
Speaker 4: they're saying what the President of the United States wants
13:44
Speaker 4: to hear, which is totally understandable. So in this case,
13:49
Speaker 4: to Sam's point, if you look at say the Houston
13:51
Speaker 4: Astros a few years ago, before they got really good
13:54
Speaker 4: and before they started cheating, they built a really good
13:58
Speaker 4: farm system and really a good team that eventually, you know,
14:02
Speaker 4: won the World Series twice or if you're a Dodger fan, once,
14:05
Speaker 4: But they really had a program to be terrible. You know.
14:09
Speaker 4: Tanking is the pejorative term, but it's legitimate for as
14:12
Speaker 4: a way of development. And they acknowledge upfront what they
14:16
Speaker 4: were doing. They told you what they were doing. They
14:19
Speaker 4: knew they were going to crash their attendants and people
14:21
Speaker 4: would come back when the team was good again. All
14:23
Speaker 4: those things happened, and I think they still have a
14:26
Speaker 4: pretty loyal fan base. And he used to be delivered
14:29
Speaker 4: on their promise. In this case, if Perry wanted to say,
14:36
Speaker 4: let's tank, he couldn't do it. Hardie does not want
14:40
Speaker 4: to see that, he thinks, And like, I think there's
14:42
Speaker 4: some merit to this that people wanted to come out
14:46
Speaker 4: and see show Aotani. They want to come out and
14:48
Speaker 4: see Mike Trout. These ridiculous Mike Trout trade rumors who
14:52
Speaker 4: just got internet fodder every year. But in order to
14:57
Speaker 4: do that, you forfeit the chance to tank because you're
15:01
Speaker 4: not allowed to trade your most valuable assets. So Aria's
15:06
Speaker 4: got to put together what he can from both not
15:10
Speaker 4: being able to develop your farm system to the fullest.
15:13
Speaker 4: And then I've heard for years that the plan, such
15:17
Speaker 4: as it was, was to get a lot of kids
15:21
Speaker 4: to the majors in a hurry. You saw, you know,
15:23
Speaker 4: so many first round draft picks that spent very little
15:25
Speaker 4: time in the minors and got called up right away.
15:28
Speaker 4: Some have played better than others, and hopefully there would
15:32
Speaker 4: be enough of a core that when Anthony Rendin's contract
15:36
Speaker 4: finally was taking off the Angel's books, Laradie would have
15:41
Speaker 4: some money free and say, okay, now it's time to
15:42
Speaker 4: go spend on free agents, because look, if the Angels
15:46
Speaker 4: signed you know, Je Soto or somebody you know, a
15:48
Speaker 4: couple winners ago or Kyle Tucker last winter, like, that's
15:51
Speaker 4: not going to make a difference. Free agents make a
15:53
Speaker 4: difference when you're one or two or three players away,
15:56
Speaker 4: which the Angels are not. So you have to develop
15:59
Speaker 4: that core. And all of a sudden, the Angels got
16:03
Speaker 4: to that point where they were hoping they would have
16:06
Speaker 4: players developed and number one, the players all haven't developed
16:10
Speaker 4: the way they thought. Number two, there aren't that many,
16:12
Speaker 4: so your margin for error is pretty small. And number three,
16:17
Speaker 4: the Angels lost tens of millions of dollars each year
16:20
Speaker 4: at the same time because their TV deal crashed, and
16:23
Speaker 4: it's already decided not to spend In that sense, I
16:28
Speaker 4: don't know how much optimism Perry can rightfully sell, but
16:33
Speaker 4: I think to Sam's point, like honesty is always the
16:35
Speaker 4: best policy with your.
16:36
Speaker 2: Fans, I agree.
16:39
Speaker 1: Let's take a little a deeper look at Perry's job performance.
16:44
Speaker 1: And first, there is the one loss record. As they
16:48
Speaker 1: say in baseball, your record is your report card. Seventy
16:54
Speaker 1: seven wins would be the high over the first one, two, three,
16:57
Speaker 1: four five full regular seasons. And they enter Saturday's game
17:02
Speaker 1: against the Blue Jays fifteen and twenty four. They lost
17:05
Speaker 1: ninety nine games in twenty twenty four. They have two
17:09
Speaker 1: last place finishes in a row, and they are in
17:12
Speaker 1: last place currently in the American League West, a winning
17:15
Speaker 1: percentage of four point thirty nine. I mean that to
17:20
Speaker 1: me is enough, just based on the numbers alone, to
17:24
Speaker 1: really wonder why they've continued to employ this general manager.
17:27
Speaker 1: But let's take a deeper dive into his actual personnel moves,
17:31
Speaker 1: and to be fair, there have been some decent moves
17:34
Speaker 1: that Perry has made over the years. He got a
17:37
Speaker 1: decent reliever, Ryan Zephyr John in that trade with the
17:41
Speaker 1: Red Sox Luis Garcia trade, which was basically a dump
17:44
Speaker 1: of a reliever. They got four prospects. Zeph For John
17:47
Speaker 1: was one of them. In another twenty twenty four deadline move.
17:51
Speaker 2: He got so.
17:52
Speaker 1: Far just top prospect George Klausen looks like a pretty
17:55
Speaker 1: good pitcher. Sam Aldegary, I'm not sure how he's going
17:59
Speaker 1: to pan out in that deal where they send Carlos
18:02
Speaker 1: Estevis to the Phillies.
18:05
Speaker 2: Free Asian signings not great.
18:08
Speaker 1: His first one was David Fletcher, which was five years
18:11
Speaker 1: and twenty six million.
18:12
Speaker 2: I believe you know the.
18:17
Speaker 1: Kakuchi deal. Jerry's still going to be out on that one,
18:20
Speaker 1: depending on his injury right now. But I think can
18:23
Speaker 1: balance the bad really outweighs the good, and to me,
18:28
Speaker 1: the focal point, and we've talked about it on the
18:30
Speaker 1: show before the twenty twenty three trade deadline just so
18:35
Speaker 1: bizarre they they go for it at the deadline. They
18:39
Speaker 1: make all these acquisitions and they don't trade show Aatani.
18:42
Speaker 1: A month later, they lose like a ton of games.
18:45
Speaker 1: In August, they fall out of it, and then all
18:47
Speaker 1: the guys they acquired.
18:48
Speaker 2: Are out on waivers.
18:51
Speaker 1: And he's really had a tough time on the bullpen.
18:55
Speaker 1: I mean, look at Robert Stevens and thirty three million,
18:58
Speaker 1: Aaron Loop seventeen million, Ryan Tapara fourteen million. We'll see
19:03
Speaker 1: about Kirby Yates. He just came back Friday night five million,
19:06
Speaker 1: Drew Palmeran's four million, man the bullpen and Shake and
19:11
Speaker 1: I have talked about it. He wrote about this in
19:13
Speaker 1: his story. You have to be if you're not going
19:16
Speaker 1: to spend money, like you know, the Yankees are Dodgers,
19:19
Speaker 1: you have to win on the margins. You have to
19:21
Speaker 1: be able to identify underperforming talent on other teams, like
19:27
Speaker 1: the Dodgers have done such a good job of We're
19:29
Speaker 1: going to excel for your team because you see something
19:32
Speaker 1: in them maybe another team didn't. Where have they gone wrong?
19:36
Speaker 1: Shake in the bullpen, where have they've gone right? If anything?
19:40
Speaker 1: And is that sort of an area where boy, it
19:42
Speaker 1: really shows in terms of job performance with Perry.
19:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's that pretty much is true. You know,
19:50
Speaker 4: it was out at the Dodger game last night, and okay,
19:55
Speaker 4: Tanner Scott finished the game, and you have the Dodgers
19:57
Speaker 4: gave him sixty six million dollars, and that's that happening here.
20:01
Speaker 4: You know, Edwin Diaz was not walking through the bullpendor
20:03
Speaker 4: in Anaheim. But if you look at some of the
20:06
Speaker 4: guys who pitched ahead of Tanner Scott last night, you
20:09
Speaker 4: know Kyle Hurt and Alex Vessia came in a trade
20:12
Speaker 4: for Dylan Floro. That's just a talent trade, that's not
20:15
Speaker 4: a money trade. Evan Phillips pitched for the Dodgers for
20:19
Speaker 4: a couple of years as a closer angels. I'm sorry
20:23
Speaker 4: the Dodgers got him in a year that Baltimore Orioles
20:26
Speaker 4: lost more than a hundred games. Have dumped him because
20:28
Speaker 4: they didn't think he was good enough. There are all
20:31
Speaker 4: sorts of examples like that where teams succeed with relievers
20:36
Speaker 4: all the time, and bullpens are always volatile. Every general
20:39
Speaker 4: manager will tell you that, and they tell you that
20:41
Speaker 4: because they're right. But a lot of that goes to
20:43
Speaker 4: player development too. So what the Dodgers do really well,
20:47
Speaker 4: is they identify a guy who they think they can
20:50
Speaker 4: make better and it doesn't always work, but their track
20:53
Speaker 4: record says more often than not it does. And in
20:56
Speaker 4: the Angels case, they really struggle not only to identify
21:01
Speaker 4: the relievers who can, but after that, can they develop them,
21:05
Speaker 4: Can they show them a new pitch? Can they mix
21:07
Speaker 4: up their pitching differently? The kinds of things that Dodgers
21:10
Speaker 4: always do. And the one guy I think Perry should
21:13
Speaker 4: get credit for hitting on is they claim brock Burke
21:16
Speaker 4: on waivers perfectly grid mineral reliever in the Angels a
21:19
Speaker 4: couple of years. This year, Harry had a chance to
21:23
Speaker 4: trade him for Josh Lowe, And Yeah, what would you
21:26
Speaker 4: rather have a guy pitching the seventh inning twice a
21:28
Speaker 4: week or a guy potentially hitting in the middle of
21:31
Speaker 4: your order every day? Of course everybody would do what
21:33
Speaker 4: Perry did if Josh low can do what you think
21:36
Speaker 4: he can, and so far to this point he clearly
21:39
Speaker 4: has not.
21:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sam, what are you saying with some of these
21:44
Speaker 1: these moves?
21:46
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, you know, like a few minutes ago,
21:49
Speaker 3: Shake was talking about like tanking, and I think the
21:51
Speaker 3: interesting thing is, like you don't have to tank to
21:53
Speaker 3: get better. I mean, what you can do is just
21:55
Speaker 3: like make the moves at the time that you need
21:57
Speaker 3: to make them, Like you talk about the twenty twenty
21:58
Speaker 3: three trade trade deadline, mean they held on to Kenley
22:01
Speaker 3: Jansen for what reason, I really couldn't tell you. And
22:05
Speaker 3: that's like it's it's just kind of never like how
22:09
Speaker 3: you expect to win if you are gonna if you're
22:11
Speaker 3: not gonna spend and you're not gonna make trades, and
22:12
Speaker 3: you're not gonna, you know, do any of the things
22:15
Speaker 3: that require you to actually get better. I mean you
22:17
Speaker 3: just kind of have to.
22:17
Speaker 4: You know.
22:18
Speaker 3: It's like you say, like you have a few good players,
22:20
Speaker 3: and some of them, if they don't fully pan out,
22:22
Speaker 3: you're just gonna be bad baseball team. And that's kind
22:23
Speaker 3: of what's happening. I mean, it's you know, I mean,
22:26
Speaker 3: we all and then I think a lot of stress
22:28
Speaker 3: and pressure gets put on guys who you know, are
22:31
Speaker 3: are fine players, maybe aren't superstars or aren't superstars yet,
22:35
Speaker 3: you know, and so it's and then you see what
22:37
Speaker 3: may be happening with Zach Netto, who's got a lot
22:39
Speaker 3: of potential, but like just seems out of it seems
22:42
Speaker 3: something like something's up, and so I don't know I
22:47
Speaker 3: talk about the bullpen. I mean, I don't you know,
22:50
Speaker 3: it's just a disaster. It's like it's a it's a culmination.
22:52
Speaker 3: It's a culmination of bad development, you know, bad choices, spending, trades, everything,
22:59
Speaker 3: I mean the brock Burk trade. I don't know. I mean,
23:02
Speaker 3: did that was that the right move to get Josh lo?
23:05
Speaker 3: I mean, Josh Lowe has not been a terribly productive
23:07
Speaker 3: big leage player over the course of his career. It's
23:09
Speaker 3: been better than he has been this year, but you know,
23:12
Speaker 3: you could use a strong lefty reliever that actually is reliable.
23:16
Speaker 3: I mean they don't have that right now. I mean
23:18
Speaker 3: they didn't put that. Apparently they had, like Kurbie Eates
23:20
Speaker 3: warming up in that in that day game against the
23:22
Speaker 3: White Sox the other day, but they didn't bring him
23:23
Speaker 3: in because they weren't didn't feel comfortable bringing him in
23:26
Speaker 3: a five run lead in the ninth. I just don't
23:28
Speaker 3: really understand the uh, the strategy here, and I don't
23:32
Speaker 3: think it requires a full tear down. I think it
23:34
Speaker 3: just requires making smart moves and being honest about where
23:37
Speaker 3: you're at. I mean, we look at the White Sox.
23:39
Speaker 3: The White Sox did that. I mean, you know, they
23:40
Speaker 3: they traded Garrett Crochet at a time where it's painful
23:43
Speaker 3: to do something like that. Right, People made a lot
23:46
Speaker 3: of fun of them for how bad they were in
23:48
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, but they're making legitimate steps to try
23:50
Speaker 3: to improve that. I just don't see the Angels doing
23:52
Speaker 3: any of these things. So to me, it's like, okay,
23:55
Speaker 3: you know what, like you you want to don't want
23:58
Speaker 3: to be called a bad and disastrous team, then do
24:01
Speaker 3: things that you know aren't bad disastrous.
24:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I would say Sam's point, like the Garrett
24:09
Speaker 4: carsat example, is great because you know Tani and Trout,
24:13
Speaker 4: the Angels had the two kind of guys who at
24:16
Speaker 4: their peak would have brought back elite packages or prospects. Yes,
24:21
Speaker 4: they don't have anybody like that.
24:22
Speaker 2: Now.
24:22
Speaker 4: Trout is playing like old Trout, but teams will look
24:26
Speaker 4: at his age and look at his contract and look
24:29
Speaker 4: at his injury history, and besides, he doesn't want to
24:32
Speaker 4: go and already doesn't want him to go, so that's
24:34
Speaker 4: the end of that. But other than that, who on
24:37
Speaker 4: this roster would get you a package of really elite
24:40
Speaker 4: prospects and maybe Netto would. I think he's played much
24:45
Speaker 4: better obviously than you know he has this year. I
24:48
Speaker 4: think he's still one of the better short stops in
24:50
Speaker 4: the American League.
24:51
Speaker 2: Agreed.
24:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it unless you want to bank on a
24:54
Speaker 4: month of Sorano is what you really get going forward,
24:57
Speaker 4: And I'd want to see a little more before I
24:59
Speaker 4: tore up farm systems to get them. Yeah, so players
25:02
Speaker 4: you're going to get back are not going to be
25:04
Speaker 4: the ones that could really ignite rebuild.
25:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about this on our previous show, and
25:10
Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo and I both agree that really the only
25:12
Speaker 1: two players who might They're not going to bring you
25:15
Speaker 1: back a package like you're talking about, like Otani would,
25:18
Speaker 1: but Jose Soriano and Joe Adell if he starts hitting.
25:24
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what's going on with him this year,
25:27
Speaker 1: but if you look at his numbers last year, you
25:29
Speaker 1: know those two young players who do still both have
25:32
Speaker 1: some control, might get you something if you were so
25:35
Speaker 1: inclined to rebuild. But as we know, that word does
25:40
Speaker 1: not seem to be in the owner's vocabulary. A couple
25:43
Speaker 1: other things. I think Perry did do a good job
25:46
Speaker 1: this year he did address some concerns on the bench.
25:49
Speaker 1: Oswald Perrazza has been one of their best players. You
25:52
Speaker 1: got to give him credit for that. Von Grisson seems
25:54
Speaker 1: like he's been okay for the Angels, but you have
25:58
Speaker 1: the Josh low trade and tailor word for Jason Rodriguez.
26:02
Speaker 1: We're still not sure how that's going to work out.
26:05
Speaker 2: Look at Mickey Moniac, Yeah, my goodness, sees what I know.
26:09
Speaker 1: Think he's leading the league, but he's pretty close and
26:11
Speaker 1: home runs now for the Rockies.
26:13
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I mean, they they let him
26:15
Speaker 3: go to get Kyon Parris on the roster, who's now
26:18
Speaker 3: a double A.
26:19
Speaker 2: For the Ale.
26:20
Speaker 3: So, you know, Mickey Moniac, I think, I mean, you know,
26:22
Speaker 3: he's definitely coursing a little bit in the sense that
26:24
Speaker 3: he plays in the most hitter friendly ballparking baseball, and
26:27
Speaker 3: he's not a great defensive center fielder. But I mean,
26:29
Speaker 3: the dude's got what you know, he's hitting like three
26:32
Speaker 3: three twenty somewhere.
26:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, another guy just let go.
26:36
Speaker 3: Just a Yeah, there's a lot of like everyone everyone
26:39
Speaker 3: has those bad moves for sure.
26:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Angels seem to have a lot.
26:44
Speaker 3: Of those bad moves. But it's you know, it's like,
26:45
Speaker 3: how do where do they stack up? How do they accumulate?
26:48
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, uh.
26:50
Speaker 1: Also last year's draft, I have to you know, I'm
26:53
Speaker 1: not sure. We never quite know where the general manager
26:55
Speaker 1: starts in the scouting director ends on the draft. But
26:59
Speaker 1: they did up some pretty good arms and Tyler Bremner,
27:01
Speaker 1: Chase Shore's Johnny Slewinsky, and Nate Snead who threw six
27:06
Speaker 1: perfect innings the other night for Trice Class A Tri City.
27:10
Speaker 1: So maybe help is on the way. I'm not banking
27:13
Speaker 1: on it this year. I think there's still as we've
27:16
Speaker 1: said before, they're more than one or two players away.
27:20
Speaker 1: In light of all that, guys, how hot is the
27:23
Speaker 1: seat under general manager perrymannesium right now?
27:27
Speaker 2: How hot should it be?
27:31
Speaker 3: I think it's quite you know hot. I mean, ultimately,
27:34
Speaker 3: if this season they have the work. You know, as
27:36
Speaker 3: we sit here on Saturday May ninth in the morning,
27:39
Speaker 3: they just have the worst record in baseball by half
27:41
Speaker 3: a game. So you know, if that trajectory holds, and
27:46
Speaker 3: certainly don't see any reason to assume that it's going
27:49
Speaker 3: to get much better. I mean, you never know, but
27:51
Speaker 3: I think they're going to wait till the lockout and
27:53
Speaker 3: probably make some changes. I mean, there's only there's a
27:55
Speaker 3: reason why Kurt only gets one year. I mean, I
27:57
Speaker 3: think they kind of decided to put these guys together,
27:59
Speaker 3: and if they're gonna make a change next year, it's
28:01
Speaker 3: gonna be kind of whole scale. So I think that
28:04
Speaker 3: that's what I would read into it. I don't know
28:05
Speaker 3: for certain. Obviously, you know, there's you know, a new
28:08
Speaker 3: president of the team, there's blockout, There's a lot of
28:12
Speaker 3: different factors that can go into all these different decisions
28:14
Speaker 3: that maybe need to get made after this year ends.
28:16
Speaker 3: But my sense is they're just gonna let this ride
28:18
Speaker 3: and you know, see what happens after this year. Now
28:21
Speaker 3: you ask what it should be, I mean, one hundred
28:24
Speaker 3: and three games below five hundred, one hundred three games
28:25
Speaker 3: below five hundred, I think it speaks for itself.
28:28
Speaker 4: Shuit, Well, if you're just gonna go on one lost record,
28:33
Speaker 4: Perry's isn't as good as Billy Eppler who got fired.
28:37
Speaker 4: So that's your track record right here, you know. But
28:41
Speaker 4: our he's already given Perry one extension too. To Sam's point, though,
28:45
Speaker 4: they finally, to their credit and belatedly realize that it's
28:50
Speaker 4: not great when the contracts of the manager and the
28:52
Speaker 4: contracts of the general manager are in different timeline. So
28:56
Speaker 4: you know, when Perry came in here, he inherited Joe Madden.
28:58
Speaker 4: That did not work out. Perry wanted to get rid
29:01
Speaker 4: of him and did. He's hired several other managers since then,
29:04
Speaker 4: So at some point you can't just look at the
29:07
Speaker 4: manager anymore and say that's the problem. But you know,
29:10
Speaker 4: you also can't if you're going to do that, you
29:12
Speaker 4: can't go into the market looking for a manager and
29:15
Speaker 4: tell people like Tory Hunter and Albert Kuhols that you're
29:18
Speaker 4: looking to give a one year deal because that's not
29:21
Speaker 4: going to work. And it didn't. So, okay, they've got
29:24
Speaker 4: what they want now and we'll see how it plays out.
29:26
Speaker 1: Samson, Yeah, I've said it before on the show, and
29:29
Speaker 1: I'll reiterate. I don't understand why Perry got the extension
29:33
Speaker 1: he got. I don't understand how you can have that
29:37
Speaker 1: kind of performance in your job and still be in
29:40
Speaker 1: this game of baseball.
29:41
Speaker 2: I think they do need to make a change.
29:43
Speaker 1: I you know, with Molly Jolly as the new president,
29:47
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the you know, what their process
29:52
Speaker 1: will be. But you know, shake you look back.
29:54
Speaker 2: Over the years.
29:54
Speaker 1: Remember you know, when we were both I was covering
29:57
Speaker 1: baseball as a beat guy, and an opening came up
30:00
Speaker 1: up at our newspaper for a baseball job or something.
30:03
Speaker 1: You and I could tell our editors you know, this
30:06
Speaker 1: is the guy, this is the woman, this is the
30:07
Speaker 1: person you need to hire, because we knew the talent
30:10
Speaker 1: out there. You know, if I was a sports out
30:13
Speaker 1: of the La times, I would have hired Sam Blum
30:16
Speaker 1: months ago, years ago. Uh So, you know, and a
30:19
Speaker 1: lot of times those suggestions are taken because trust was
30:22
Speaker 1: given to us, not so much in the recent past.
30:26
Speaker 2: So the Angels need.
30:29
Speaker 1: What I'm around about way of saying, is the Angels
30:31
Speaker 1: need to find that next theo Epstein, the next whoever
30:36
Speaker 1: it is, the next great young general manager, because I
30:38
Speaker 1: don't I don't see Dave Dombroski walking through that door.
30:41
Speaker 1: You know, I don't see those established I don't see
30:43
Speaker 1: Andrew Friedman walking through that door. They need to make
30:46
Speaker 1: a concerted effort. And if you're in the baseball industry,
30:49
Speaker 1: you need to know who these guys are.
30:51
Speaker 2: And they've you know, for years.
30:53
Speaker 1: Remember when Billy Epler he interviewed for the GM job
30:55
Speaker 1: a couple of times and didn't get it, finally got hired.
30:58
Speaker 1: So who are the next young, hung rising stars in
31:01
Speaker 1: the game. The Angels would do well to find them,
31:03
Speaker 1: because I do not think Perryminesium is going to get
31:07
Speaker 1: them to that next level. We're going to close this
31:09
Speaker 1: show with that Sam Blum of the Athletics bill shaking
31:12
Speaker 1: of the La Times. Thanks for joining us. We'll see
31:14
Speaker 1: you next time on Halo Territory.