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CLASSIC: The Nature of Ephemera, with Alex Williams · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous Historians. This week's classic episode is incredibly special
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: to us. Back in twenty nineteen or thereabouts, our good
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: good friend of the show, a brother in arms to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: all of us, a guy named Alex Williams co created
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: with his own brother, our super producer, Max Williams, a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: show called.
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  Speaker 2: Ephemera Indeed, And on this episode, we talked to Alex,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: the creator of Ephemeral, on the nature of his podcast,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: which is out there for you to enjoy, as well
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: as a story about the Collier Brothers.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, Thanks so much for tuning in. Peak Behind
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the Curtain, it is officially summer in Atlanta. The humidity
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and the heat combined to drape the city in soup.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: It feels like walking through soup. So I am very,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: very glad to be here inside our air conditioned studio.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: My name is Ben, my name is Noah.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: The shipping container is icy cool today, and outside it
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: is sort of there's this miasma, this sort of funk,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: this patina of awful hot, sweaty grossness that does kind
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: of envelop the city and it happened overnight, didn't it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: It just happened overnight. Yeah, it permeated, It permeated this
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: fair metropolis of ours. I always forget about how dire
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: this situation becomes when we hit summer in Atlanta, and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you know this may mean that we're in here recording
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: more episodes. We do want to start the show with
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a big shout out to our guest super producer Ramsey
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: ram jams Yunt, So everybody give him a fine hello.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Do we get does he get a sound effect.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: That sounded good?
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: It was very good. Good. I like it. And of
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  Speaker 1: course this does not mean that we will ever forget
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: our wonderful our third amigo, right, super producer Casey Pegram.
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  Speaker 2: Gone, but not forgotten, gone, I say, but gone where Ben?
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  Speaker 1: We were talking about this? So I have a theory.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Every year or so, Casey disappears and in France, someone
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: else reappears, a very different person who happens to look
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit like our dear friend Casey Pegram. This guy,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: we imagine, is a member of the criminal underbelly of Paris,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: known only by the name.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he dons a completely different get up in
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  Speaker 2: the form of a very slick looking leather jacket, a
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  Speaker 2: single dangly cross earring on his left on his left ear,
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  Speaker 2: and sometimes he wears fingerless gloves and rides around one
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  Speaker 2: of those cool little mod motorbikes in the pictures.
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  Speaker 1: Yet, and we strongly suspect that he may have one
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  Speaker 1: or more secret families. It's true.
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  Speaker 3: None of this.
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  Speaker 2: We can neither confirm nor deny any of this. We
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  Speaker 2: are wildly speculated.
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  Speaker 1: It's all true, though. Put the pieces together, people.
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  Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna have to let Casey have his
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  Speaker 2: day in court here and defend himself. But you know,
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  Speaker 2: Casey's not here. We're joined with Ramsey helping us to
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: pick up the slack. Here. Casey's doing his double life.
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  Speaker 2: But that's not the only person that we have on
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  Speaker 2: the show today, is it.
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  Speaker 4: Man.
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  Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. This is a special episode that I
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  Speaker 1: know we were both very excited about. We have in
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: our network a brand new podcast that we're we're all
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: huge fans of, since you really huge fans of, and
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  Speaker 1: it happens to be created by one of our close
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  Speaker 1: friends who you may have heard mentioned on our show
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  Speaker 1: or other shows before. Folks, Let's give it up for
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  Speaker 1: Alex Williams, the brains behind the podcast. We call a
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  Speaker 1: femeral because that's the name of the podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Hi Alex makes us call it then, just by virtue
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  Speaker 2: of having titled it and being a very good title
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  Speaker 2: and a very fine podcast.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.
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  Speaker 3: What a flattering introduction. I'm very happy to be here.
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  Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. We've been working with you for
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  Speaker 2: quite some time now. We've kind of seen you grow
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  Speaker 2: and develop and become more and more of a badass
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  Speaker 2: in what the pros referred to as the podcast space
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  Speaker 2: and making wild gesticulating quote fingers when I say that.
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  Speaker 1: You really have to. But here's the thing.
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  Speaker 2: You really took another level in terms of making not
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  Speaker 2: only a history podcast, but something that I've referred to
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  Speaker 2: when I describe it to friends as something akin to
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  Speaker 2: like poetry meets sound, collage meets some music, concrete meets history,
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  Speaker 2: And I think it's just a really beautiful piece of work.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm just beyond stoke that it's on our network
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  Speaker 2: and that you're the guy behind him.
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  Speaker 1: So we'd like to ask you.
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  Speaker 3: That was such a good pitch. I don't know if
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  Speaker 3: I could pull that up, but that was great.
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  Speaker 1: He's good. Well, now it is your turn, so we'd
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  Speaker 1: like to ask you some questions about ephemeral, about your
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  Speaker 1: your inspiration behind it. But first, yeah, with that excellent
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  Speaker 1: description that Noel just just recited, what how would you
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  Speaker 1: describe it? How do you describe it when when someone's like, hey,
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  Speaker 1: what's this thing you're working on?
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  Speaker 3: I start stammering and sweating, and I try to make
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  Speaker 3: it as concise as possible as thinking of a quick
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  Speaker 3: pitch in bed the other night. It's something like a
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  Speaker 3: show about fleeting moments and the things they leave behind.
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  Speaker 1: M I like that because that's what epemera is, right.
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  Speaker 2: Epemera is sort of a remnant of a thing that
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  Speaker 2: no longer is around, I guess kind of or the
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  Speaker 2: idea of things being ephemeral means that they're fleeting or
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  Speaker 2: that they're here today, gone tomorrow, but they do leave
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  Speaker 2: behind some kind of residue if you know where to look.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So the word itself is kind of tricky. In
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  Speaker 3: the textbook, epemera might just mean paper.
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  Speaker 1: Right, broadsides, tickets, pamphlets for museums.
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  Speaker 3: Basically anything printed, hand printed, you know, printing press, computer printed.
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  Speaker 3: That wasn't meant to be saved. But then it gets
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  Speaker 3: into the issue of like, how do you determine whether
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  Speaker 3: something was meant to be saved or not?
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  Speaker 1: Right, Like, for instance, a train schedule from the early
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  Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. Now, the ones that are around are considered
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  Speaker 1: thing to be things that of historical value, right, But
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  Speaker 1: when they were printed, they were thought to have a
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  Speaker 1: definitive and very short lifespan or span of utility.
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  Speaker 3: One of the really classic examples is the stamp. The
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  Speaker 3: episode I'm working on that will come up. Mondays about this,
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  Speaker 3: well Monday, that might that might not be the Monday.
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  Speaker 3: It'll come out on an it'll come out on a Monday.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know when this will come out. But a
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  Speaker 3: stamp is a really classic example.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So you've written a letter to your friend Noel, and
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  Speaker 3: you've stamped it, and you've put in the mailbox and
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  Speaker 3: he gets it and he rips it open and reads
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  Speaker 3: the letter and he's, you know, overwrought with emotion. Whatever
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  Speaker 3: he throws out or hopefully recycles the uh, and that's it.
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  Speaker 3: But Noel happens to have a great stamp collection, right,
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  Speaker 3: and I've sent him, you know, uh inverted Jenny stamp
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  Speaker 3: from the nineteen thirties, and so he is overwrought with emotion,
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  Speaker 3: not because of my great pros, but because this is
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  Speaker 3: a great addition to his stamp collection.
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  Speaker 1: Because he is a philetist or philitist?
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  Speaker 3: Is that it is?
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  Speaker 1: How's it? How it's pronounced? You a p h I
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  Speaker 1: L A T I s t one who collects stamps.
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  Speaker 3: What's the root word of philetist?
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  Speaker 2: Sorry, it could also be one who filets, you know,
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  Speaker 2: That's what I would think, because that's how the British
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  Speaker 2: pronounced fil a. They pronounce it phill it really they
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  Speaker 2: do a hard t stund at the end of it.
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  Speaker 2: I always find that very interesting because sometimes the Brits
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  Speaker 2: seem like they really own the word, and sometimes they
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  Speaker 2: just feel like they're mispronouncing and just to be cute,
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  Speaker 2: cute sort of like aluminium, Like that's not the word, Brits.
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  Speaker 2: Come on, it's illuminum. You're adding syllables in there that
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  Speaker 2: don't belong.
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  Speaker 1: Place the American English. To be fair, we can't really
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  Speaker 1: criticize the people who are doing it. First. That's also fair.
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  Speaker 1: Ben If they want to add an extra pe on shop,
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  Speaker 1: then that's kind of their call. Uh yeah, to answer
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  Speaker 1: that question about etymology. It's interesting because it comes from
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  Speaker 1: French and Greek. So uh itelia means exemption from payment.
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  Speaker 1: The French philo means loving, so it's loving exemption from payment,
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  Speaker 1: which is weird, right.
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  Speaker 3: No, but it's it makes sense, But don't ask me
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  Speaker 3: to explain it.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we can learn more about this. What what did
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  Speaker 1: you what are you exploring on this episode concerning stamps?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, well, it's not it's all over. It's much more
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  Speaker 3: than you know. One of the things that we're doing
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  Speaker 3: is actually taking the word apart in this in this episode,
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  Speaker 3: so ef eemera comes from the root words epi meaning
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  Speaker 3: honor of, like epicurius, epidermis, and hemera meaning day. It's
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  Speaker 3: like a Latin Greek combination word. And so it starts
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  Speaker 3: being used by people in you know, the Age of Enlightenment,
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  Speaker 3: I guess, to describe things that only last for a day,
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  Speaker 3: that may fly, you know, a certain species of plants
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  Speaker 3: that flower and wither in a day. And then you know,
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  Speaker 3: it becomes with time more broadly used to describe things
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  Speaker 3: that don't last a long time, you know, or fleeting.
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  Speaker 3: And that's where you start getting into trouble because like
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  Speaker 3: in in a you know, the metrics of like a
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  Speaker 3: human life. You know, maybe like one hundred years at best.
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  Speaker 3: Something that doesn't last for long means something different than
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  Speaker 3: like geologically right, like melting polar ice caps or ephemeral
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  Speaker 3: At this point.
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  Speaker 1: Or was it? Who was that philosopher said all as ephemera?
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  Speaker 3: How have I never heard that? I've never heard of that.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it's maybe it's a philosopher Marcus Aurelius.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, there we go, all this ephemeral, both what remembers
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  Speaker 2: and what is remembered.
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  Speaker 1: There we go.
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  Speaker 3: How have I never used that quote for something?
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  Speaker 1: Your tagline, ye should hang out on the show more often. Man,
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  Speaker 1: I'm full of vaguely remembered one liners from ancient philosophers.
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  Speaker 2: So I mean, I guess ephemeral ephemerah, by its nature
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  Speaker 2: is sometimes a little hard to describe, as is the show.
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  Speaker 2: It's not something that you can just encapsulate in a
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  Speaker 2: quick elevator pitch. So I put forth that we listened
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  Speaker 2: to a little bit of a clip that can then
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  Speaker 2: set up a discussion.
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  Speaker 3: What do you say, Oh?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Sure, Oh, let's do the call your brothers, Yes, sir?
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  Speaker 3: As a kid, Franz Litz's father would tell him scary
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  Speaker 3: stories before bed. Only these stories were true.
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  Speaker 4: My father was a scientists engine inventor who had never
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  Speaker 4: really had much use for fairy tales. He preferred real
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  Speaker 4: life grotesqueries to fiction, and so at bed time I
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  Speaker 4: would listen raptly to his urban horror stories. The most
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  Speaker 4: macabre tale was one of the Collier Brothers, the hermit
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  Speaker 4: hoarders of Harlem.
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  Speaker 3: There in their four story brownstone at the corner of
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  Speaker 3: Fifth Avenue one hundred and twenty eighth Street, the brothers
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  Speaker 3: sealed themselves up through the Great Depression, both world wars,
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  Speaker 3: and as Harlem shifted from a rich white suburb to
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  Speaker 3: a poor black slum.
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  Speaker 4: It was there in that brownstone that they amassed one
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  Speaker 4: of the world's legendary collections of urban junk. And in
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  Speaker 4: the end, the Collier brothers had one hundred and eighty
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  Speaker 4: tons of junk stored in their brownstone. And so I
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  Speaker 4: got this image of this horror house. Things like pattered toysmis, trees, chandeliers,
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  Speaker 4: rusted bicycles, broken baby carriages, ford model t moldering oak chess,
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  Speaker 4: fourteen pianos who added babies and fromaldehyde.
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  Speaker 3: And newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspapers.
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  Speaker 4: It was a collection so extraordinary that their accomplishment, such
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  Speaker 4: as it was, confirms like a New yorkers worse nightmare,
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  Speaker 4: that they're crumpled people living in crumpled rooms where they're
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  Speaker 4: crumpled possessions, the crowded chaos of the city refracted in
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  Speaker 4: their homes. It's not that New Yorkers hoard more than
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  Speaker 4: other people, so they have less room to hoard in.
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  Speaker 1: So the call your brothers c. L. L. Ye Er
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  Speaker 1: were just as they're described in that clip, right, they're
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  Speaker 1: what we would call compulsive hoarders.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know the history of the term hoarder
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  Speaker 3: if we're applying a modern term and acariness, but yes,
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  Speaker 3: hacrats I suppose maybe is like an older term. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: but horder's certainly.
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  Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little bit more about these brothers.
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  Speaker 3: So there's really one book on them, and it's by
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  Speaker 3: a fantastic, exquisite writer named Franz Lids who grew up
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  Speaker 3: hearing you hear his voice in the clip. He grew
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  Speaker 3: up hearing these stories from his father as bedtime stories,
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  Speaker 3: as scary stories that he wouldn't tell. He would tell
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  Speaker 3: Franz these stories, but not Franz's sister. For whatever reason,
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  Speaker 3: I thought that was interesting, and so when Franz grew up,
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  Speaker 3: he decided to learn everything that he could because no
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  Speaker 3: one had really written anything, you know. Besides, they were
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  Speaker 3: sort of part of the urban legends of Harlem and
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: of New York.
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  Speaker 2: To the point where it was almost a cautionary tale,
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  Speaker 2: like even the New York Fire Department would I believe.
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  Speaker 2: They had a term that they used called Collier's mansion
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  Speaker 2: syndrome that referred to extra instances of extreme clutter in
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  Speaker 2: apartments that were fire hazards. So it almost became, as
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  Speaker 2: the name of the book implies, called ghost y men.
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  Speaker 2: These these guys almost cast kind of a specter over
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  Speaker 2: this particular region to the point where they were so
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  Speaker 2: embedded in the cultural and oral tradition storytelling like ghost stories,
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  Speaker 2: that became this kind of cautionary tale almost right.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's also a racial element to that too.
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  Speaker 3: The two brothers, Langley and Homer, moved with their parents
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  Speaker 3: from Manhattan to the budding community of Harlem in the
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  Speaker 3: eighteen nineties sort of an economic boom time, and Harlem
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  Speaker 3: is this new, rich, fancy suburb for people that want
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: to get out of dirty New York, you know, get
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: out to gentrification basically. Yeah, well those oldest time well
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: it actually the economy crashes and there's a big bust
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: and all of these rich families like move out, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: there's all this empty space in Harlem. And then and
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: there was overtly racist practices taken on by the landowners
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: and harlve lifelines. Sure literally things that were called like
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Negro surcharges, I see. And they would take these big,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: beautiful brownstone mansions, like the Collier brothers lives in a
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: four story brownstone mansion and divide them up into you know, six, seven,
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  Speaker 3: eight nine rooms, fill them up, overcharge African Americans to
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: live there. But so anyways, the Collier Brothers were some
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: of the few white residents at that point too. So
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  Speaker 3: legend is that neighborhood kids would chuck rocks at their
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  Speaker 3: windows and stuff and call them ghosty men, both referring
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: to like their sort of creepy hermit never come out
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: of the house. Is there someone dead in there?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: And also you know, perhaps a racial connotation.
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  Speaker 2: It's interesting too because there's a parallel story reminds me of,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: which is the Masols film Gray Gardens, where it's you know,
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  Speaker 2: this mother and daughter that live in a very they
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: come from affluence. They live in this very similarly decrepit
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  Speaker 2: kind of mansion out in you know, the burbs, away
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  Speaker 2: from New York City, and they're completely kind of delusional
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  Speaker 2: and sort of exist in this strange bubble together. And
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: that sort of what ended up happening with the Collier brothers,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: where they got to a point I believe one of
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  Speaker 2: the Homer I believe was like a child prodigy and
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: like ended up getting some advanced degrees and did really
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: well for himself for a time, and then they ended
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: up just kind of withdrawing completely from society. And that's
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: when the extreme hoarding that we're talking about started to begin.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: And that's also where the legend stuff kind of comes in, Right.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: They really both were prodigies. Romer had advanced degrees from
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Colombia and like admiralty law.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And what even is that? First of all, is it
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: like maritime stuff are similar? Yes, And I believe also
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: one of them was quite a talented pianist.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Is Langley played at Carnegie Hall and was followed by
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: the famous pianists at the time, Padrewski, but Paaterewski quote
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: got better notices than Hey, so he gave up the piano.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: So, you know, it can always be discouraging to work
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: that grind of the music industry, regardless of the era
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: in which you live. Let's talk a little bit about
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: what this timeline of degradation looks like. Because while they
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: were infamous in their neighborhood and their community, especially as
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: things started to get worse and worse for them mentally
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and you know, Homer got a stroke, they started becoming
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: more and more reclusive. Right. They didn't reach national attention
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: until nineteen thirty eight, when the New York Times reported
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: a false story about them and said that they had
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: turned down an offer of one hundred and twenty five
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: grand for their house.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of strange sort of tabloid a.
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  Speaker 3: New York had eleven newspapers in those days. There was
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: lots of lots of things that sort of bounce around
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: in an echo chamber, I suppose. So there's a lot
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: of strange leads that you can follow with the Collier
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: brothers that you never really get an answer to. I
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: should say that Homer quits his job, Langley stops playing
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  Speaker 3: the piano, their father has moved back to Manhattan. At
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: some point, they stay in the house with their mother
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: and really sort of start shuddering in in their you know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: in their sort of mid twenties.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And then their mother passes away.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: She passes away and is buried in some sort of
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: bizarre kind of cult like ceremony. She just whisked out
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: of a window one night and taken to a seminary
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: that's very far away on foot. And it's never in
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: the paper or anything. There's no obituary. She's she's just
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: gone one day, and they wanted to keep it private.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I suppose after that they more or less had no
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: contact with the outside world.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I believe Homer lost his eyesight and became essentially legally blind, you.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Know, and he I'm gonna illustrate it for you here,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: had rheumatism and was doubled up like this with his
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: knees below his chin.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: So for the description, just since we're an audio show,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Alex has assumed a somewhat fetal esque position with both
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: legs folded up against his chest and his arms folded
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: around holding his legs.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Oh I made this part, that's all you. No, the
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: arms is just me, that's my thing. But so the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: poor guy. Yeah, and in his thirties this happened. I
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: believe lost his eyesight. Langley became his brother's keeper, and
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, I really do think they were. They loved
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: each other and were very dutiful to each other. Langley
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: devised this scheme of feeding his brother one hundred oranges
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: a day in orders who regained his eyesight. That's one
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: of the poll quotes we have left of Langley Collier.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: And he saved him newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspapers
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: when he could read again, when he could read again,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: which is heartbreaking and sweet. These newspapers obviously are yellowing, rotting.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Sure they're you know, it's a four story, humongous mansion.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Langley made them into arches and tunnels and made an
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: inner framework for their mansion out of newspapers and all
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: kinds of other to tris. I mean, there's really no
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: I have incredibly long lists of this stuff that I've
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: I've pulled from different sources.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, let's see baby carriages, rusted bikes, Because apparently
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Langley was so Homer never sought medical help for his rheumatism.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to say. It's hard to be absolute
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: about anything. I mean, you know, like I said, we
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: have the one book and either there there's there's things
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: that we just want to never know.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Best we have for primary source because it sounds like
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of the headlines of the time, the contemporary
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: papers you mentioned were just reporting stuff that would sell papers.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Uh, there was we don't actually don't talk about this
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: in the episode, but there's one reporter, Helen Warden is
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: her name. Langley sort of took a liking to her.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: She was waiting outside of his apartment or outside of
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: the brownstone one day around midnight he came out to
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: make his nightly rounds. He would walk around the city
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: and just drag a cardboard box with a string behind him, Yeah,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: and fill it up with just whatever stuff he came across,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: all kinds of things. She met him out there one
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: one night at the at the outside the brownstone, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: he just sort of started unloading information on her. She
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: made mention of maybe visiting inside the house one day,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: and he's and that's when he stopped and took off.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, Wow. Yeah, and this is this is interesting because
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: around this maybe around this is after the time when
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Langley began not going out until midnight, right, and then
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: returning home with junk. I So one of the things
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that people familiar with this story probably always mentioned. It's
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: certainly a thing that I bet producers would mention when
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: they're talking about fictional adaptations, will be the booby traps.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Were the booby traps real? That's a question people.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: They were very real.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: That's the big kicker.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I mean talking about this labyrinthine infrastructure of garbage essentially, right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I mean it was like walled up kind.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Of every window, every door full.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: And they rigged it so that things would literally, if
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: they were intruders or dare we say, some sort of
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: like tomb raider type situation, people would get got.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: They just they really wanted to be left alone. I mean,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: there certainly is some paranoia and some fear built into
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: that collection collecting habit.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I heard that the booby traps were not not a
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: thing that they had just come up with out of
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the blue. I heard it was a reaction to a
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: number of attempted burglaries on the house. When people began
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to think that they were hoarding not only junk but
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: also a financial fortune, so maybe there was some logic
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: behind it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: They were from a well to do family. At some
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: point they reportedly owned a large section of waterfront in
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: New York. Oh wow, Actually their parents were like cousins
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: and oh.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: That well to do.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it came over on the speed well from England. Yes,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: so I don't know if anyone ever tried to actually
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: burgle their house, but there's certainly you know, all their
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: utilities got cut off one after the other, so people
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: from the city would try to get in their house.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Police officers absolutely, and you know Langley would occasionally just
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: sort of reach his head out the window and scream
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: go away, or they would just say nothing to them.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: It sort of brings you right to this fateful day.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Oh are you talking about in nineteen forty seven, March
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: twenty first, when police received an anonymous tip.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: That is the very that's very damn talking about.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: No, you're in this episode, in the recreation of this
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: that we do. Oh, that's right, what did I do?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: It's been so long.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: You've been working on this for such a long time.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: You've been doing recreations. I have don't get it.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Absolutely you will you and Chuck are you know, maybe
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: we'll leave it to the listeners, fair to go seek
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: it out with this. Your voice and our friend and
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: colleague Chuck Bryant are intertwined in this.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: This is the one where the cops like yelling up
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: at the window. I do remember this now, Okay, that's
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: ringing a bell. I'm no spoilers there, but yeah, definitely
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that's the kind of stuff you can expect in this show.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: It's not only you know, it's not like this whereas
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: me and Ben Gavin about history. It's a real experiential
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: thing and it's got a lot of these kind of
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: cool production touches that really make it special.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: But what happened that day? So this is what we're said.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: March twenty first, nineteen forty seven, that faithful day, the
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: police receive an anonymous phone call. Well, Charles Smith is
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: the guy who gives the phone call. Never we've never
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: been able to fall up and Charles Smith.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So Alex did the air quotes there.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: So I forgot that doesn't come through. Charle Smith calls
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: the police and reports a body at the Collier Residence.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Police show up. Police that have been there before know
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: this place is booby trapped, so they proceed with caution.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: But they do break down the door and it is
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: walled up with junk. They can't get through. They start
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: axing their way through, and vapor of decay erupts out
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: onto the street.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Miasthma may see very much.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like Atlanta in the summer. It's all
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: coming very much, so for.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Basically a whole day, they're trying to get in different ways.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: It's all tunneled. They know that there's booby traps, things
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: like feces and jars and bricks and nails and things
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: like that, really terrible, horrible things that could very much
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: injure a person. Someone breaks through, takes a letter up
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: to the second story, breaks through a window and finds
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Homer Callier doubled up as he always is in the corner,
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: but he's shriveled up and dead.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: How long had he been dead? Did it seem, for
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: lack of a better word, fresh, or was the corpse.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Like well, I'm not sure how soon they were able
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: to determine it, but it had been a while. Oh wow,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: it had been a while. And then the real question
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: was where's Langley? Has he killed his brother? Has he fled?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: And the search that went on took weeks to find
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Langley Collier.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Did they search the city or the house?
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: It was an international search. Oh wow, yeah, like I said,
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: eleven newspapers New York at the time. So that echo
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: chamber is going crazy. Langley Colliers are getting cited everywhere
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: in different cities in the Carolinas and Chicago on trains,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: extra extra There's a moment where a guy there's a
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: photograph that gets published in some paper of a guy
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: literally holding a sign that says, I am not Langley
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: because he's got kind of like a little beard and
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: a little scruffy and maybe looks a bit like one
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: of the Caller brothers.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: So this is all clearly building to a conclusion of sorts.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: It turns out, however, that Langley Caller has not crossed
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: the Atlantic, he has not smuggled himself into Canada or Mexico.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Where exactly is he.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: It's very tragic. He's found ten feet from where his
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: brother Homer was found. And it's a number of weeks later.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: There was so much junk, and they'd spent all this
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: time clearing it, police and firefighters clearing it, then eventually
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: professional cleaning crews or clearing crews rather just ten feet
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: from his brother, he was coming to bring him food
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: and caught one of his own booby traps. Oh no
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: died there, and Homer died of neglect. He hadn't been fed.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: And so you end up with this, like what Noel
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: was talking about earlier, this sort of bizarre, stranger than
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: fiction tale that's embedded in folklore, and it reads a
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: bit like a morality tale. But then I don't know
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: what it is that the Caller brothers did that was
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: so wrong, Like I think I say in the episode,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, probably they should have paid their taxes and stuff.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: But it's also a.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Very distinctly New York kind of story where it's like
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: you're surrounded by people. Being in New York, every inch,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: every scrap of space is used up, is you know, occupied,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and you have no like there's no sense of freedom
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: kind of when you're walking around New York, like it's
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: a beautiful place and there's a lot going on, but
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: it does have this claustrophobic feeling to it. Anyway, So
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: the idea that especially now knowing we know about real
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: estate prices and all that that two men would just
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: like own this quite opulent setup and just allow it
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to become this absolute nightmare in that way, and it
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: speaks to kind of the cluttered feeling of New York
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: as a city. I think it's a very interesting parallel there.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And yes, is there anything wrong with being a hoarder
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: or collecting things or any of that stuff. No, but
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: this speaks to something I think a little bigger than that,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: and that paranoia and the fact that these two were
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: all they had and they got into this, like, you know,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: kind of cycle of just not wanting anybody else to
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: be in their lives at all, and yet they're living
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: in the most populous place in the country where there's
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: so much culturally going on in such an interesting time
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: and history too.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Franz Lids calls it a New Yorker's worst nightmare.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. For me, this also calls to mind
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: a documentary called Cropsy. Are You Familiar with Us? Cropsy
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: is a documentary about an urban legend regarding a boogeyman
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: like figure that's stall people in this in the area
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: surrounding a place called the Willowbrook Mental Institution. Which had
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: been closed down and in the in the course of
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: this documentary, they find that this boogeyman like figure, this
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: modern urban legend, is based on fact, and there is
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: a real uh, there is a a pearl of truth
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: inside this this lambjel of scary urban folklore. We got
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: there so uglier than a Joe Montana pass.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I have seen that documentary, but I didn't remember it
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: until you start talking about it. It's good. Yeah, it's
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: a worthwhile documentary. I need to rewatch that.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Now you've heard us talk a little bit about the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Caller Brothers, folks, but if you want to truly experience
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the story, which goes much deeper than what we've discussed here,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: we highly recommend that you get thee too your favorite
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: podcast app of choice story on the seventeenth of June
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to talk out to check out the call your Brother's Story. However,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: there are other episodes of Ephemeral available now. Like, as
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: you're listening to this, please listen to the rest of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: our show before you listen to the next one. But
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: what are some topics that really stuck out in your
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: mind that you've published recently.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Well, we've just published an episode with interviews Sarah Wasserman,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: who's a professor at the University of Delaware, is basically
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: an ephemera teacher. Oh wow, yeah, and so she's the
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: person who can really answer some of the tough questions
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: that we brought up at the top of the show.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: The episode before that is a study of Ottoman American
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: diaspora music. You might say, what immigrants from the collapsing
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Ottoman Empire in the early part of the twentieth century,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: the teens, twenties, thirties, fleeing like people are from all
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: over the world coming to America and recording heart stopping
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: beautiful music in New York, mostly Chicago for big labels
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: like Columbia Victor and then also some small independent labels too.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: So music in Greek and Arabic that has largely, almost
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: entirely been forgotten, These records that were pressed in limited
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: quantities because of some sort of racist practices at that time.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: That's astonishing. You know, part of the area where I
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and one of our colleagues, Dylan Fakean is from in
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Tennessee is has a huge population of Lebanese immigrants who
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: have left. I think Lebanon was, at least in name
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: ruled by the Ottoman Empire until that collapse from what
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: post World War One nineteen eighteen ish. And I think
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I've heard some of I have to listen to this.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I think I've heard something that might qualify in this
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: genre that's bizarre to me.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: And I mean there's all kinds it's not. There's all
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: kinds of music in it. There's party songs, there are
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: heartbreak songs, and there's fantastic singing and ood playing and
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: things that I don't really have the vernacular to describe.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: But we interview in this episode, and really where all
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: of the inspiration for it came from is a gentleman
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: named Ian Nagoski who is in Baltimore and does reissue
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: records of this stuff, literally sometimes pulls them out of
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: the trash. I've seen pictures of some of these records
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: that they have that are so abused, and does everything
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: he can to salvage them, to save them, to learn
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: as much as he can about the performers. Sometimes you
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: can't find anything. Sometimes you get lucky and to spread
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: the word about it. So it's a fantastic interview that
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: that's part of that and the music and it is
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: it's some of my favorite music now I.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Would love to hear it, and don't have to take
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: our word for it. You can tune in and check
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: out this music yourself.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing what you're gonna get with this
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: show is the conceit of the show is such a
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: cool one, but it also allows for such a broad
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: range of topics, which I think is really important even
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: for a show like what we do. Like our only
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: lynchpin is that these stories are in some way bizarre, strange,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: or ridiculous or hilarious, and so that gives us like
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: kind of carte blanche to let go in all kinds
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: of different directions. Similarly with your show. Very different show,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: but very similar heart in terms of just like being
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: fascinated by things and wanting to get answers to why
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: things play out the way they do in history, and
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: just kind of I think anyone that is into this
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: show even remotely is going to be very much into
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: your show as well.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: To me, it's a there's something about it, and please
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: take this for the profound compliment it is that reminds
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: me of the free associative nature of the film Waking Life,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: the way that it connects in this very very intentional
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: but a dreamlike state. You know what I mean? This
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: is this is one of the podcasts that I hear
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a ton of shows, but this is one of the
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: ones that comes with a very new and unique voice.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: And I mean that sincerely.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: You can compare me to Richard Linkletter anytime. I'm fine
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: with that.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: So it looks like we're going to We're going to
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: have to save our our own explorations of things that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: came and went for another day. But shout out to
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Pizzeria Chips. I miss you if you're listening. If a
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: big demo of our show is extinct.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Sentient pizzeria chips. Yeah, extinct potato chips terrifying. I gained satpiens.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I was going to talk about Beta Max tapes that
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: were only literally killed. Production was killed by Sony like
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, and I believe they stopped distributing the
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: players and recorders of Beta max tapes only a couple
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: of years before that. But that used to be kind
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: of the like go to for high resolution news footage
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: and archiving. And now I actually have a stack of
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Beta max is on my desk right now that I'm
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: trying to find a place that can transfer them digitally,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and there are folks that still have them, whether they're
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: news agencies or like companies that specialize in digitizing your
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: family memories. That's big business now because of this nature
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: of epemera. And not only is the medium antiquated now,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the way of playing it back is gone or much
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: more scarce. And that says that you have a really
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: great trailer for your show that's all about answering machine
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: messages and how that used to be such a cultural
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: thing that people would do and it was important to
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: leave a really good message and just the idea of
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: these things that kind of came and went left an impression,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: and now it's almost this kind of like specter that
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: like hangs over society and it's really interesting looking forward
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: to hearing more from a femoral with Alex Williams.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to save that. I have
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: this great list that I'm going to save and post
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: on our Facebook page later for ridiculous historians. Because I
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: did an okay job just mentioning pizzerias. It's really hard
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: not to just immediately start talking about them. So I'm
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: just gonna like mention some things that left and then
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: we'll pick it up later. So check us out on
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. You should be able to
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: find a femeral wherever you find your favorite podcast like
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History and so on. In the meantime, Alex, thank
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show. Actually another
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: started with a peak behind the curtain. Let's end with one.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Our office actually closed a few hours ago and we
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: were able to convince you to stay over and take
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: this strange journey with us.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: You know before, I feel like i'd be remiss to
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: not mention that Ridiculous History was the first show that
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: I helped make. That's very beginning it was. It was
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: the three of us at the very very beginning of it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: And Alex, I'm not sure if you know this or not.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: You've got so much on your play. We thank you
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: at the end of every episode for the wonderful theme
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: that you composed. So now we can do our little
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: thank yous, and we can do it in person. Thanks
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: to Alex Williams who composed our theme and for being
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: here today for an interview.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: I did know that you've thought and I very much
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: We are big fans of thanking people in this show.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I'd also like to thank super producer Ramsey, ram Jams
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: you owns, thank you so much for saving the show. Ramsey,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Guys, absolutely our pleasure.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Thanks to super Producey Casey Pegrim here in spirit, not forgotten,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: gallavanting around Paris right now living his best second life.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: And thanks to Christopher Haciotis you know, also here in spirit.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quiztor, as well as
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: our research associate gabe El, who desperately needs a nickname,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: so send some suggestions our way.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Ben, Thanks to you for always being a friend and
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: a confidant down that road back again you know the drill.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks to you as well. Noel. We are gone
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: for today. This ends our episode, but not our show.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: You can also find us on our aforementioned Facebook page.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter. You can find us
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: at Instagram. You can also find our weird personal Shenanigans,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: misadventures and malarkey on our personal instagrams. I am at
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Ben Bolin.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I actually has changed my handle. I am now at
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: how now Noel Brown and where can they check out
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: ephemeral on the social media's alex at ephemeral show.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks Hi.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.