Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Newborn disappears from crib, Maddie McCann update & new clues in cough med killer case

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Newborn disappears from crib, Maddie McCann update & new clues in cough med killer case · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account,
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Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes.
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Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence,
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Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting
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Speaker 1: new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's seven
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Speaker 1: sixth Central and nine eighth Central on Oxygen, the new
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Speaker 1: network for crime Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius
0:37
Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. The search is on
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Speaker 1: for a missing two week old baby. She was only
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Speaker 1: fifteen days old, but even in that short time, Tim
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Speaker 1: Bell loved every ounce of his little granddaughter, Callia mcnaughn.
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Speaker 1: She was tiny, You had to feet every two hours
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Speaker 1: changing the little diapers, and her little head was about
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Speaker 1: the south of Tinnis Balls. Her parents said they fed
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Speaker 1: and changed her at five day and Saturday they reported
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Speaker 1: her missing at ten that morning. Jenny want I just
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Speaker 1: woke up? My do want me up? On account I
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Speaker 1: had a two year old and I had two weeks old.
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Speaker 1: My two weeks old is not her sleeper. Her passes
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Speaker 1: on the floor. She's not her. She's not in her sleeper,
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Speaker 1: she's not here. Who got my kid? Man? But I
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Speaker 1: want my kid back, man, that's my job and I
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Speaker 1: want my too. It Man, A fifteen day old baby girl,
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Speaker 1: Khalia McNabb goes missing. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
1:31
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us and all points bulletin
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Speaker 1: and amber alert goes out for baby Khalia straight out
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Speaker 1: to Dave Mac, syndicated talk show host joining us. Dave Mac,
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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the fifteen day old
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Speaker 1: baby gone missing? Because Ashley Wilcot, you're a child advocate,
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Speaker 1: you're with me at fifteen days one of my children
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Speaker 1: were still in the nick that would be Lucy Way
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Speaker 1: in a big two pounds, and I spent the rest
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Speaker 1: of my time staring at John David to make sure
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Speaker 1: he was breathing. So, how does the fifteen day old
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Speaker 1: baby go missing? It's not like it can, you know,
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Speaker 1: go outside and catch an uber, Dave Mat. How does
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Speaker 1: the baby girl go missing? Nancy? It's one of those
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Speaker 1: stories where the parents say that the last time they
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Speaker 1: saw the baby when they fed her at five o'clock
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Speaker 1: in the morning on a Saturday morning. Then they went
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Speaker 1: back to check on her between nine and ten, and
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Speaker 1: she was gone, hold on, I know, I'm just a lawyer,
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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, but let me just do the math here.
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Speaker 1: Five am to nine thirty, So a newborn baby manages
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Speaker 1: to be unattended for four and a half hours. Wow,
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Speaker 1: that's incredible to me because when mine were that age,
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Speaker 1: it was about every two hours they had to be fed.
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Speaker 1: Plus I was already staring at them anyway, So let
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Speaker 1: me understand this, Dave Max indicated, talk to your host.
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Speaker 1: You're telling me the mom and the dad had their
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Speaker 1: eyes on the baby around five am? Is that correct? Correct?
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Speaker 1: To Dr Daniel Ober forensic psychiatrists you're joining me. Dr Bober,
3:02
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. They do call nine
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Speaker 1: one one immediately after discovering the babies not there, don't they? Yes, Nancy, uh,
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Speaker 1: And that's what you would expect, um, I did you know,
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Speaker 1: I think it was odd that they would the babies
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Speaker 1: would disappear from their site for a total of four hours.
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Speaker 1: That did seem a little odd to me, As you say,
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Speaker 1: you know, usually these feedings are every two hours, so
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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what was going on during that time period.
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Speaker 1: But yes, calling nine one one is obviously the thing
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Speaker 1: to do. I want you to hear the nine one
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Speaker 1: one call for yourself. Listen, eaton, Kenny. I wan'tres the emergency.
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Speaker 1: I just woke up. I don't let me up on
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Speaker 1: the couch. Um. I have a two year old and
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Speaker 1: I have a two week old. And my two week
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Speaker 1: old is not in her sleeper. Her pasties on the floor,
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Speaker 1: she's not in her saper, she's not in your sleeper,
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Speaker 1: She's not here. I've looked everyone. I've looked under clothes
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Speaker 1: and everything. What's your addressing highlight? Yes? What thirty one?
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Speaker 1: Do you think somebody took her? Ma'am? My child took
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Speaker 1: my two year old says she's gone, And I've looked
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Speaker 1: at her in the house, so I don't. I don't
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Speaker 1: know another possibility. What light number are you at? Thirty one? Okay?
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Speaker 1: And you said you were sleeping, woke up and she
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Speaker 1: was gonne? Yes, my my my two year old. Paene
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Speaker 1: worked me up. That's fend that was on account. How
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Speaker 1: old is she, ma'am? Two weeks old? Okay? Man? You
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Speaker 1: know who else would have come in your house? I mean,
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Speaker 1: as far as I know, nobody would have came in
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Speaker 1: my house, my tweear old sis papa. But I called
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Speaker 1: my dad and I called my grandparents and they don't
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Speaker 1: have a My dad's on the way right now, Okay,
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Speaker 1: all right, how long could you even sleep? Um? The
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Speaker 1: last time I woke up with her was around I
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Speaker 1: guess five maybe? Okay, so you were asleep since five o'clock? Yes,
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Speaker 1: I didn't even mean if I will sleep on the
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Speaker 1: house down after dealing with her own country or can
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Speaker 1: you tell if someone's been there? Is her blanket? They're gone,
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Speaker 1: her blankets gone, her past. He is here on the
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Speaker 1: floor a blankets not with us. I don't know with
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Speaker 1: I mean, I I don't know. I guess it's with her, okay.
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Speaker 1: And I have clothes and toads. But I've looked all
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Speaker 1: in home and she's not here. Anything else missing, like
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Speaker 1: a baby bag that she would that you would have,
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Speaker 1: or anything else. Her bottles here on top of my shelf. Okay,
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Speaker 1: in my bathroom, ma'am. Huh? Yeah? What about anything else
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Speaker 1: that could possibly have gone, like could be herd could
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Speaker 1: have gone with her? Um? No, nothing else? Just heard
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Speaker 1: her blanket. Okay. So the only thing is miss death
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Speaker 1: missing is her in her blanket. He didn't talk to
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Speaker 1: the dad or grandma or anybody my dad looking at
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Speaker 1: when me. Dad just left and he was walking around
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Speaker 1: the park looking for her because my two year olds
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Speaker 1: is I asked her, did somebody to come in and
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Speaker 1: take her? And she said, yeah, but I don't you know,
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Speaker 1: she's too so I don't know if I can that
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Speaker 1: or she looked through everything like under the bed. Yes, ma'am,
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Speaker 1: yesterd'am okay, okay, ya, all right. What's your name, ma'am?
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Speaker 1: Courtney Bell C O R C and E Y B
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Speaker 1: E L L. Just to let you know, Courtney, they've
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Speaker 1: been on the way out there. I'm just getting this
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Speaker 1: information to update them. Okay, thank you too much. What's
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Speaker 1: your phone number? Um, I'm not sure if this number
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Speaker 1: my phone bust is the other day? Um, my grandmother's phone.
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Speaker 1: She's been with me. All right, So you and the
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Speaker 1: dad both were I'm just trying to get to understand
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Speaker 1: if I can let them know because of the questions
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Speaker 1: that they're asking me. You and her dad both were
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Speaker 1: sleeping or he just came back home. Now I woke
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Speaker 1: up together. She woke us up together. Okay. The two
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Speaker 1: year awoke y'all up and told you all that the
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Speaker 1: baby was gone. Yeah, okay, she she was kind of
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Speaker 1: freaked out. I mean, I don't I don't know, because
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Speaker 1: she was just standing there beside the house in the
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Speaker 1: corner and I told her came here and I loved honor,
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Speaker 1: and then I told my baby's dad to go check
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Speaker 1: on Khalilah. And then you're talking about she's not in here.
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Speaker 1: She's not in here. Okay, Well the police should be
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Speaker 1: in the area. Now, thank you. I'll go ahead and
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Speaker 1: let you go, okay. Than another issue, actually, Wilcot joining
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Speaker 1: me child advocate. The baby was put to bed, back
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Speaker 1: to bed, was fed and changed according to the parents,
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Speaker 1: at five am on a Saturday morning, and put back
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Speaker 1: in bed with her two year old sister. Now you
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Speaker 1: and I know about coach sleep. Absolutely not supposed to
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Speaker 1: go sleep, and a lot of people don't know that.
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Speaker 1: But what strikes me about that is whoever would have
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Speaker 1: taken the baby, would it have woken up the two
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Speaker 1: year old sister. A long time ago, before I had children,
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Speaker 1: I would say, of course, you come in the room,
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Speaker 1: you get a child out of the bed. Of course
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Speaker 1: it's going to wake up the other child. Not necessarily true, Ashley,
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Speaker 1: because I can pick up one of my children and
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Speaker 1: move them to another bed and they don't remember a
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Speaker 1: thing about it. The next morning, they have no idea
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Speaker 1: how they ended up where they were. So, and they're nine,
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Speaker 1: ash so it can happen. It would not surprise me
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Speaker 1: that the two year old sister did not wake up.
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Speaker 1: I agree, it wouldn't surprise me at all. But remember
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Speaker 1: this is also a tiny, tiny baby. They said the
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Speaker 1: head could fit in a person's hand, and so being
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Speaker 1: such a tiny baby, you're right, they may not at
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Speaker 1: all notice a two year old man, not at all
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Speaker 1: notice if a little baby is picked up, even if
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Speaker 1: the baby is sleeping right next to the two year old. Now,
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Speaker 1: did the two year old over on the baby and
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Speaker 1: suffocate the baby? May maybe they're sleeping in the same bed.
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Speaker 1: That's danger. You know what's interesting, Ashley, Well, got to
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Speaker 1: this day people insist that Burke Ramsey killed John Benet Ramsey,
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Speaker 1: which is statistically virtually impossible. Okay, you know, a sibling side,
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Speaker 1: as it's called in slang, uh sibling side is very
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Speaker 1: very rare. Plus if you look back at Burke and
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Speaker 1: John Benet, she was the dynamo. Burt was the one
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Speaker 1: that was frell and pale, look like she could crack
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Speaker 1: him in half. I never bought into that theory. The
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Speaker 1: likelihood that a two year old little girl could roll
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Speaker 1: over on an infant, while technically possible, I find very unlikely.
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Speaker 1: Somebody took the baby out of the crib. And remember
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Speaker 1: we're basing all of this on the parents timeline. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to the father as he begs, begs Christopher
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Speaker 1: McNabb begging for the return of his baby girl, Khalia,
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Speaker 1: who got my kids? Man? But I want my kid back, man,
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Speaker 1: that's much I want my kid? Man? So what happened
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Speaker 1: to Kaliah McNabb. Let's just talk forensically for one moment
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Speaker 1: with me is forensics expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville
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Speaker 1: State University, Joseph Scott, Morgan, Just Scott, thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with me, along with Dr Daniel Bober, Dave Matt
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Speaker 1: and Ashley Wilcot. Joe Scott. Let's just break it down.
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Speaker 1: I have handled many cases where a child disappears from
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Speaker 1: their own bedroom. This family did not have an alarm system.
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Speaker 1: Anybody could have gotten into that home very very easy
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Speaker 1: access they were in a community where the homes are
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Speaker 1: very close together. Nobody heard anything, nobody saw anything. But
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Speaker 1: still the likely hood of an intruder, a stranger taking
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Speaker 1: the baby out of the bedroom is low, not necessarily
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Speaker 1: true at malls or at fairs or out in the
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Speaker 1: public to come into your home and take your baby
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Speaker 1: a stranger kidnap very low likelihood. But it does happen.
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Speaker 1: Do I have to say, Polly Class or Elizabeth Smart,
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Speaker 1: it does happen, Joe Scott. It doesn't easy. But I
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Speaker 1: tell my students at at university in my criminal Investigations
11:28
Speaker 1: club that the cases they're gonna work as investigators, they're
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Speaker 1: they're gonna be looking at intimates far more frequently than
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Speaker 1: they will at strangers. And you will have more means,
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Speaker 1: opportunity and motive in that context with the people that
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Speaker 1: you live with. Uh. And this is kind of making
11:45
Speaker 1: me scratch my head. How would someone uh just out
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Speaker 1: of the blue snatch this little angel out of the
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Speaker 1: bed and then they disappear for this extremely long amount
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Speaker 1: of time without any accountability whatsoever. Uh. It makes me
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Speaker 1: look really hard. Now, it's people that are in dwelling
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Speaker 1: this this house, and also any individuals that may have
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Speaker 1: had access to this house. Who do we know? Dave
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Speaker 1: Max indicated talk show host who had access to the home. Again,
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Speaker 1: there's no burglary alarm system, nothing like that. What relatives
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Speaker 1: or neighbors could get into this home? Nancy? As you mentioned,
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Speaker 1: they did live in an area that had a number
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Speaker 1: of other homes nearby. There was no alarm system, So yeah,
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Speaker 1: there was access, and there were family members nearby because
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Speaker 1: they actually were helping in the search. So there's any
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Speaker 1: number of people that could have had access if in
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Speaker 1: fact the baby was kidnapped. Now, I want you to
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Speaker 1: listen now to sound that we have obtained for you
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Speaker 1: of a convenience store clerk that came upon the father,
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Speaker 1: Christopher McNabb. You just heard him pleading for his child's return. Listen.
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Speaker 1: He just come in and he said, how you remember
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Speaker 1: making my last night? And a duthor he said, you sure,
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Speaker 1: I'll see you, sir. He remember my baby is the
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Speaker 1: one that got kidnapped, and said, y'all don't leave me.
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Speaker 1: Y'all don't leave me. That's him, that's h him. And
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Speaker 1: then they were standing there and I said, please don't
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Speaker 1: leave me. And then he started calling and talking about
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Speaker 1: they're gonna get me. They're gonna get me. I'll been
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Speaker 1: running on day then in the woods I day and
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Speaker 1: I tried to call nine one one anyone would go through,
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Speaker 1: and I was called again when you go through. And
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Speaker 1: then the third time I called, it went through and
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Speaker 1: he's still seeing it here, and I said, uh. He said,
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Speaker 1: they're not gonna get me. He said, and then anybody
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Speaker 1: trust them. We mean they're gonna get in trouble too.
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Speaker 1: And I said, okay, okay, but I don't remember you
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Speaker 1: like that, you know. And then he went to the door.
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Speaker 1: And when he went to the door, I hit it
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Speaker 1: again and got nine one one and I called nine
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Speaker 1: one one again and I got him and I said,
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Speaker 1: he's here. He's at thirty six at the Chevron. He's
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Speaker 1: in my store and he's going crazy. I don't know
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Speaker 1: what his problem is, but he said he was running
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Speaker 1: from the cops. He'd been hit in the woods all day.
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Speaker 1: I said, he's he's really scary. Somebody needs to get
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Speaker 1: there quick. And lastly, to know that that baby is
13:54
Speaker 1: is dead, what does that mean to you? He's considered
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Speaker 1: a person who's attentuous. He is a son of interest,
14:01
Speaker 1: but He kept saying, I didn't do it. I didn't
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Speaker 1: do it, We didn't do it. They did it. And
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Speaker 1: when y'all are go, when y'all find out who really
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Speaker 1: did it, but I didn't do it. There you were
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Speaker 1: hearing the father, Christopher McNabb, who understandably was erratic and
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Speaker 1: almost crazy, acting upon the news that his baby girl
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Speaker 1: was found in a duffel bag in the woods. The
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Speaker 1: baby found in a duffel bag in a in the woods,
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Speaker 1: Volunteer search crews say they find fifteen day old Khalia
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Speaker 1: McNabb stuffed in a duffel bag. Stuffed in a duffel bag.
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Speaker 1: The county sheriff says that when they tried to speak
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Speaker 1: to the father, Christopher McNabb, he jumped out of a
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Speaker 1: car and ran away. Ashley Wilcot jumped out of the
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Speaker 1: car and ran away. If Mike child, God forbid, this
15:02
Speaker 1: ever happened, is missing. Do you think I'm gonna jump
15:04
Speaker 1: out of a car and run away. Oh oh no,
15:08
Speaker 1: I'll jump out of a car and run towards a
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Speaker 1: sheriff car to find my child. Right, it's guilty. He's
15:14
Speaker 1: guilty of something. He's even if it's just probation violation.
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Speaker 1: But I would stand by the he or the mother
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Speaker 1: in the house with this infant know what happened. If
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Speaker 1: they didn't do it, what do we know, Dave Matt
15:26
Speaker 1: about his behavior. He actually he got out and started running.
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Speaker 1: That's the whole thing is that there they found his baby.
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Speaker 1: He's been swearing up and down that he's wanting to
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Speaker 1: find his child, that he didn't do anything, and yet
15:39
Speaker 1: the minute they tell him, hey, we found the baby,
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Speaker 1: he takes off running and he's gone for several hours.
15:43
Speaker 1: We are bringing you the latest in the disappearance of
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Speaker 1: a fifteen day old baby girl, Khaliah McNabb, the parents,
15:50
Speaker 1: Christopher McNabb and Courtney Belle. That brings me to another
15:55
Speaker 1: question to Dr Daniel Bober Where was the mom all
15:58
Speaker 1: this time? How can she not know the dad is
16:02
Speaker 1: now charged? How could she not know what was going
16:04
Speaker 1: on in her own home. Well, that's that's the whole point. Ye. Circumstantially,
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Speaker 1: it just doesn't really add up. It just seems like
16:09
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that don't have a lot
16:11
Speaker 1: of information and needs. Are the people that, like your
16:13
Speaker 1: last guests, that are the intimate season people that should
16:15
Speaker 1: really know what the whereabouts of the child are, and
16:18
Speaker 1: no one seems to really know anything. Uh, and it
16:20
Speaker 1: just doesn't really seem to fit. No, it doesn't fit.
16:23
Speaker 1: And when it doesn't fit, there's a reason, just got Morgan. Yes, yes,
16:27
Speaker 1: absolutely there is. And I think that, uh, you know,
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Speaker 1: we're as as forensics people and investigators were always having
16:34
Speaker 1: to observe the abnormal in the context of the normal.
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Speaker 1: This is not marrying up with what you would expect
16:41
Speaker 1: out of normal behavior from people that are in charge
16:44
Speaker 1: of not just a fifteen deal baby, but a fifteen
16:46
Speaker 1: deal premature baby. These are the most fragile among us Nancy,
16:51
Speaker 1: as you well know, and require the most intensive care possible.
16:55
Speaker 1: And I'm not just talking about in hospital. I'm talking
16:57
Speaker 1: about once they get this child at home. So it
16:59
Speaker 1: really paused. Police questioned the mother, Khaliah's mother, and she
17:04
Speaker 1: was released. However, the baby's father, Christopher McNabb, when he
17:09
Speaker 1: found out the baby's body had been discovered, he took
17:13
Speaker 1: off running. Now, the law in that jurisdiction is that
17:18
Speaker 1: a judge would never give a jury an instruction on flight. However,
17:24
Speaker 1: it can be argued by the prosecutor. You know, let
17:27
Speaker 1: me ask you a question, Dave Matt. When you're driving
17:30
Speaker 1: on the interstate and you see the Georgia State Patrol
17:33
Speaker 1: pot behind you, I assume that you might tap on
17:37
Speaker 1: the brakes and slow down, but you don't take off
17:39
Speaker 1: at nine mph to get away from them, or jump
17:41
Speaker 1: out of your car and run on foot because you
17:44
Speaker 1: don't have a reason to what you can argue to
17:46
Speaker 1: a jury, Dave Matt, that flight is evidence of guilt. Yes, absolutely.
17:53
Speaker 1: On on top of all that, Nancy, if you were
17:55
Speaker 1: looking for your baby, your fifteen day old baby, and
17:58
Speaker 1: the police pullet behind you, the first thing you're gonna
18:00
Speaker 1: do a slam on the breaks, assuming they've got information.
18:03
Speaker 1: Not the opposite to Joseph Scott Morrigan, death investigator and
18:07
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics at Jacksonvia State University. What do we know
18:10
Speaker 1: about the autopsy? You know? And answer? Given that the
18:13
Speaker 1: g b I has just released the cause of death
18:17
Speaker 1: in this particular case involving this child, this raises all
18:21
Speaker 1: kinds of new questions. It's no longer a matter of
18:24
Speaker 1: some kind of natural event. Maybe they the child just
18:27
Speaker 1: passed away in their sleep and the parents were trying
18:29
Speaker 1: to hide it. Now we're truly faced with what appears
18:32
Speaker 1: to be, at least on the surface, homicidal trauma. The
18:35
Speaker 1: m E has now come out and said that this
18:37
Speaker 1: was in fact the death as a result of blunt
18:40
Speaker 1: force trauma. And there's a lot that there is to
18:42
Speaker 1: consider here moving forward. How are we gonna handle the
18:45
Speaker 1: witnesses in this particular case, how are they gonna be questioned.
18:48
Speaker 1: Hopefully they're going to keep these people separated so that
18:51
Speaker 1: they can't try to, you know, get their stories straight
18:54
Speaker 1: among themselves. And then we have to consider this idea
18:58
Speaker 1: of what generated this injury. And one of the things
19:00
Speaker 1: that the EMMY is going to be looking at is
19:03
Speaker 1: was this an instrument that created this trauma, like a
19:06
Speaker 1: blunt object or was it a bare hand. One other
19:09
Speaker 1: thing that we have to consider here that is not
19:12
Speaker 1: off of the table is was this child dropped on
19:16
Speaker 1: their head that brought about this trauma? And you know
19:18
Speaker 1: that that's obviously a distinct possibility, and it's it's gonna
19:22
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to go some distance, i think, to
19:24
Speaker 1: to kind of paint this picture. But now the police
19:28
Speaker 1: have all of the information that they need at this
19:30
Speaker 1: point as far as the physical cause of death to
19:33
Speaker 1: go into these rooms and question everybody involved in this case,
19:37
Speaker 1: very very specifically interesting. The mother is not detained. The
19:42
Speaker 1: father charged on an unrelated probation violation that could be
19:46
Speaker 1: anything from a jaywalking to m A d u hy,
19:49
Speaker 1: It could be anything. To Dr Daniel Bober, psychiatrist, I'm
19:53
Speaker 1: just curious about the mother, the mother of the baby.
20:00
Speaker 1: How can she not know what happened to the baby?
20:05
Speaker 1: The baby's gone and stuffed in a duffel bag and
20:08
Speaker 1: left in the woods. Dr Boba, Yes, Nancy, you know
20:11
Speaker 1: I've worked in pediatrics, and you know what your guests
20:14
Speaker 1: said is true about especially about premise um. Uh. The
20:18
Speaker 1: parents never leave their side. I mean, these are parents
20:21
Speaker 1: that basically live in the nick there by the incubator.
20:24
Speaker 1: They don't leave, They don't even go to the bathroom.
20:27
Speaker 1: And when the babies are home, you know, we know,
20:29
Speaker 1: for example, that premature infants can have a higher risk
20:32
Speaker 1: of crib death. They are terrified, petrified that something is
20:36
Speaker 1: going to happen, and they never leave their side. So
20:38
Speaker 1: the timeline that the parents provided in the fact that
20:41
Speaker 1: the babies were out of sight for so long, just
20:43
Speaker 1: doesn't add up at all. It really doesn't too Ashley Willcott,
20:48
Speaker 1: lawyer and child advocate. Ashley, I want to hear your
20:52
Speaker 1: thoughts on the mother. She has to know what happened.
20:55
Speaker 1: I do not believe that this infant, who by all
20:58
Speaker 1: accounts has to be fed every two hours, was left
21:01
Speaker 1: alone in a crib with a two year old for
21:04
Speaker 1: more than four hours, and the mother of that infant
21:09
Speaker 1: doesn't know what happened. If she was there, she has
21:14
Speaker 1: to if not complicit. I just cannot believe that those
21:18
Speaker 1: two individuals in this house do not know what happened
21:22
Speaker 1: to their now dead baby. We are on the case
21:26
Speaker 1: on little baby Khalia. Let me pause and thank our
21:29
Speaker 1: partner shining a light on unsolved Thomas sides and missing people.
21:37
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22:37
Speaker 1: Legal zoom dot com. Is there a major break and
22:47
Speaker 1: the search for the beautiful little girl who goes missing
22:50
Speaker 1: while our parents are on vacation. Mattie McCann also known
22:54
Speaker 1: as Madeli McCann. She's absolutely beautiful and you can't take er.
23:00
Speaker 1: One eye is a slightly different color than the other eye.
23:04
Speaker 1: She is physically beautiful and apparently was a happy, happy
23:10
Speaker 1: little girl. Her parents go on vacation and tragically agree
23:15
Speaker 1: to have dinner about a football field link away from
23:20
Speaker 1: the apartment where the children are asleep as my understanding
23:24
Speaker 1: Dave Max Indicated talk show, as they can actually see
23:28
Speaker 1: the apartment. The room where the children are sleep from
23:31
Speaker 1: where they are and they meet with another group of
23:33
Speaker 1: people and they're out having dinner within eyeshot. Now to
23:37
Speaker 1: me a football field linked the way is a long way,
23:39
Speaker 1: but still there is within eyesight. And when they go
23:44
Speaker 1: back to check on her, she's gone. The other children
23:48
Speaker 1: are there, Maddie is gone. Um, what is the break
23:53
Speaker 1: in the case, Dave mac The break right now, and
23:56
Speaker 1: the reason we're talking about it is they are looking
23:59
Speaker 1: for a widow woman, a woman they believe that she
24:02
Speaker 1: lived near this holiday flat at the time Madeline vanished
24:06
Speaker 1: in May of two thousand seven. They believed that before
24:09
Speaker 1: she left. Then she left the country after her husband
24:12
Speaker 1: passed away. And they don't know her exact location, somewhere
24:15
Speaker 1: in eastern Europe. But that's the big break. What we
24:17
Speaker 1: know right now is police are desperately searching for a
24:21
Speaker 1: woman of Eastern European descent who is, as they say,
24:26
Speaker 1: a quote, criminal witness and the disappearance of Maddie mccamp.
24:32
Speaker 1: Now how they didn't know this until right now, I
24:34
Speaker 1: don't know, but I do know. This Scotland yard has
24:38
Speaker 1: just allocated another one d and fifty four thousand pounds Alan,
24:44
Speaker 1: You'll have to look up and tell me what that
24:45
Speaker 1: is in dollars a hundred and fifty four thousand British
24:49
Speaker 1: pounds in operation granges twelve million pound budget to find
24:56
Speaker 1: this woman, who detectives say could shed light on the
25:00
Speaker 1: disappearance of Maddie McCann. Now she is believed to have
25:03
Speaker 1: lived in Pride to lou where Madeleine vanished that may
25:09
Speaker 1: before leaving the country after her husband died. Why are
25:12
Speaker 1: they just now deciding that she is a forensic witness.
25:17
Speaker 1: They're claiming, according to Scotland Yard, she may have seen
25:21
Speaker 1: or heard something which to her may have been insignificant
25:24
Speaker 1: but to us could prove vital. If she recognizes herself
25:29
Speaker 1: from this description, she should contact police immediately. She has
25:33
Speaker 1: nothing to fear. This is just to eliminate her from inquiries.
25:39
Speaker 1: WHOA Okay, They are still working the theory that Maddie
25:45
Speaker 1: was taken during a quote burglary gone wrong. What do
25:50
Speaker 1: you make of it? Joining me child advocate and trial
25:53
Speaker 1: lawyer Ashley will come and see. This is a tough one.
25:57
Speaker 1: They're still searching. Because I have to believe in my
26:00
Speaker 1: heart that no matter what happened to this child, whether
26:03
Speaker 1: she's safe today or not, something's going to shake loose.
26:07
Speaker 1: I think eventually it comes full circle and we will
26:11
Speaker 1: know what happened to Mattie. But the only way that
26:13
Speaker 1: can happen is if they continue the investigation, which thankfully
26:17
Speaker 1: they're doing. The odd thing is, like you said, they're
26:20
Speaker 1: now wanting to interview this witness, why not sooner? Holy
26:24
Speaker 1: Molly Ashley, actually hold that back up, jack Jackie is
26:29
Speaker 1: holding up her calculation. They've just been given two hundred
26:33
Speaker 1: and three thousand dollars. That's nearly a quarter of a
26:36
Speaker 1: million dollars. And this as we learned that internet trolls
26:40
Speaker 1: had been bombarding Mattie mckinn's parents with hate meal over
26:43
Speaker 1: the new cash infusion to find her. As investigators still
26:49
Speaker 1: search for this woman of Eastern European descent. Of Eastern
26:55
Speaker 1: European descent, police insists they think the woman has clues
26:59
Speaker 1: to Mattie's disappearance. Now, this is something I don't understand,
27:04
Speaker 1: Is it true, Dave mac According to sources, her parents
27:08
Speaker 1: have been bombarded with hate mail. Why why would people
27:13
Speaker 1: do that to the parents. Haven't they suffered enough? Nancy?
27:16
Speaker 1: There are cowards who live on the Internet, and they
27:18
Speaker 1: hide behind anonymous names and Facebook pages and things like that.
27:22
Speaker 1: And there's many people that hold the parents responsible for
27:25
Speaker 1: Maddie's disappearance and the amount of money that's been spent
27:28
Speaker 1: on this case. So they come from several different angles,
27:31
Speaker 1: and it's attack on a regular basis. Every time something
27:34
Speaker 1: positive happens in this case, the trolls come out of
27:37
Speaker 1: the woodwork and take over. I I it's almost like
27:40
Speaker 1: a concerted effort to go after the McCann family. You
27:44
Speaker 1: know what, of course you know. Joe Scott Morgan forensics
27:48
Speaker 1: expert Joseph Scott Morgan is a professor of forensics at
27:52
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and a death investigator. Joe Scott I
27:57
Speaker 1: know why some people are skeptical, um, and that is
28:01
Speaker 1: because when a child goes missing, statistically, more often than not,
28:05
Speaker 1: someone within the family is involved. But in this case,
28:10
Speaker 1: I think it's very clear that Maddie was alive when
28:13
Speaker 1: they left for dinner and they came back and she's gone.
28:18
Speaker 1: And yes, it doesn't happen very often, but it did
28:23
Speaker 1: happen those I mean, at first, I was skeptical of
28:26
Speaker 1: the meccans just because the statistics, but You've got a
28:29
Speaker 1: whole group of people sitting around dinner with them, and
28:31
Speaker 1: then there are the haters that blame them because they
28:33
Speaker 1: went to dinner and left the children unattended. Within the investigation,
28:36
Speaker 1: eliminate all those principles that are in the immediate orbit
28:39
Speaker 1: of of of of the the person that's missing in
28:44
Speaker 1: this case, this little girl. Eliminate them, and then you
28:47
Speaker 1: can move forward. This is the troubling part, Nancy. Investigations
28:51
Speaker 1: are conducted on a linear timeline. We the further we
28:54
Speaker 1: move out in time. The further we move out in
28:56
Speaker 1: time from that original point, the more memories get fade it,
29:00
Speaker 1: the more evidence of roads. This sort of thing um encouraged.
29:04
Speaker 1: Just like Ashley had mentioned that that they are still
29:07
Speaker 1: on this case. There are many cases like this that
29:10
Speaker 1: are sitting on desk all over the country here in
29:12
Speaker 1: the US and all over the world that have just
29:14
Speaker 1: collected dust. But for some reason, it seems as though
29:18
Speaker 1: they know something. I think that with this new witness
29:21
Speaker 1: that they want to speak with this this is this
29:24
Speaker 1: is a really big deal and I'd be curious to
29:27
Speaker 1: know what it is that this what information does this
29:30
Speaker 1: person they didn't hold one year one year ago before
29:33
Speaker 1: she disappeared, this woman of Eastern European descent that lived
29:38
Speaker 1: near where Mattie went missing. I think it's just a
29:41
Speaker 1: combination of people angry that the mccan's left Mattie and
29:45
Speaker 1: her siblings alone. Um. Some people think that they're guilty,
29:50
Speaker 1: that it's their fault that they they killed her. Um
29:54
Speaker 1: and anger that maybe she's getting more attention or money
29:57
Speaker 1: than other missing children, which is true. But I can
30:01
Speaker 1: tell you this from a crime victim's point of view.
30:05
Speaker 1: I'm just happy that they're getting the money and that
30:08
Speaker 1: they haven't given up hope, and that the investigation is
30:11
Speaker 1: still happening. As they say, there's no indication this child
30:16
Speaker 1: is dead after she went missing, her body or any
30:19
Speaker 1: suggestion of her death was never found. And you know, Ashley,
30:23
Speaker 1: you're a trial lawyer like me. I mean, you know,
30:25
Speaker 1: those parents have gotten uh grilled repeatedly. They've been they've
30:31
Speaker 1: taken a lie detector tests, they've done everything. You know,
30:34
Speaker 1: That's who the investigators looked at first, and they have
30:38
Speaker 1: said many times they are not suspect. And I think Nancy,
30:41
Speaker 1: you've already identified the crucial thing, which is people do
30:44
Speaker 1: not like these parents because they went to dinner and
30:46
Speaker 1: left two young children unsupervised. But they've then taken that
30:50
Speaker 1: and rushed to judgment to say it's therefore the parents fault,
30:53
Speaker 1: which isn't true legally in this case. They it's not.
30:59
Speaker 1: That's just a jump that a lot of um, angry,
31:02
Speaker 1: critical people are are passing judgment on these two parents
31:06
Speaker 1: who are still wanting to find their daughter that night,
31:10
Speaker 1: the night that she went missing. As she walcott, what
31:15
Speaker 1: happened that night when she went missing, I always go
31:20
Speaker 1: back to the beginning. Well, they were at dinner, they
31:25
Speaker 1: come back, she's gone, She's not there, and they were
31:29
Speaker 1: very clear. My recollection is when they were initially interviewed,
31:32
Speaker 1: the yes, they could see where they were staying from dinner,
31:37
Speaker 1: even if it was a football field, the way it
31:39
Speaker 1: was in eyesight, and they didn't see the daughter leave.
31:43
Speaker 1: They didn't see anyone take the daughter. It is a
31:45
Speaker 1: true crime mystery. They don't know what happened, but something
31:50
Speaker 1: They have been diligent and adamant that they will continue
31:54
Speaker 1: to search for their daughter, and they will not lose
31:56
Speaker 1: hope or give up. And boy, and not a whole
31:59
Speaker 1: lot different than they dad who ran. When it's fifteen
32:01
Speaker 1: day old was found dead. You know, this is how
32:04
Speaker 1: I remember it going down. It was the evening in
32:06
Speaker 1: early May, as I recall May three, and Maddie was
32:10
Speaker 1: on vacation with her parents, Kate and Jerry McCann. She
32:14
Speaker 1: has two year old twin siblings, so there's three children
32:17
Speaker 1: in all, and they were all with a group of
32:20
Speaker 1: family and friends and their children. Okay, so Maddie and
32:24
Speaker 1: the twins have been left to sleep at um that
32:28
Speaker 1: evening on a ground floor apartment, and the McCanns and
32:32
Speaker 1: the other adult friends dined in a restaurant about a
32:36
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty feet Oh wait, now it's not quite
32:40
Speaker 1: a football field. Let's see, a football field is three
32:44
Speaker 1: feet right, Okay, so it's about, you know, two thirds
32:47
Speaker 1: of a football field. I remember this part, uh, Joseph
32:52
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, that the parents went and checked on the
32:54
Speaker 1: children throughout the evening, and so you know, every forty
33:01
Speaker 1: five minutes, every hour. I don't know those numbers, but
33:03
Speaker 1: I know that they checked on them during the evening,
33:07
Speaker 1: and the mother is the one that went back and
33:10
Speaker 1: discovered she was missing. They left her there at she
33:15
Speaker 1: was missing at twenty two an hour and a half later,
33:20
Speaker 1: somebody had to have seen or had to have known
33:24
Speaker 1: that she was taken. A lot of people claimed Portuguese
33:27
Speaker 1: police came to believe that she died in an accident
33:31
Speaker 1: and the appearance covered it up. Ah. I think that
33:33
Speaker 1: has been completely debunked, Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, And as
33:37
Speaker 1: you said earlier, there's no evidence of of of foul
33:41
Speaker 1: play relative to a homicide, uh, you know, blood, this
33:45
Speaker 1: sort of thing, a disruption in the apartment. I think
33:48
Speaker 1: that it's really important that the parents are going back
33:50
Speaker 1: and to check only should then because that tightens down
33:53
Speaker 1: the window the time frame that we looked at when
33:55
Speaker 1: we're building this timeline that I mentioned just a second
33:57
Speaker 1: ago in the immediate so we could frame it if
34:00
Speaker 1: the mother and the father can both stay in the
34:02
Speaker 1: affirmative that they went at at a particular time and
34:06
Speaker 1: then came back later in a measured amount of time,
34:08
Speaker 1: that narrows the field down of who would have had
34:10
Speaker 1: opportunity to get access to these children there on vacation, Nancy,
34:14
Speaker 1: they're awash with strangers all around them. And I know
34:17
Speaker 1: they're there with friends and family and all this, but
34:19
Speaker 1: let's keep in mind there awash with people around them
34:23
Speaker 1: that are unknown to them. So Lord only knows who's
34:25
Speaker 1: kind of orbiting uh this this place where they were
34:28
Speaker 1: staying in the last days. The parents have spoken to
34:32
Speaker 1: the BBC. I want you to hear what they say.
34:37
Speaker 1: There is progress, um, there are some very credible lines
34:41
Speaker 1: of inquiry at the police are working on. Whilst there's
34:45
Speaker 1: no evidence to give us any negative news. You know
34:49
Speaker 1: that hope is still it really is there in your hearts.
34:54
Speaker 1: Will be reunited with your daughter? Well, no patent's going
34:58
Speaker 1: to get up on the old unless they know for
35:01
Speaker 1: certain that she was dead and that we just don't
35:04
Speaker 1: have any evidence. So I hope of being off. It's
35:08
Speaker 1: no less than it was almost ten years ago. And
35:12
Speaker 1: now we had to Raleigh, North Carolina for the very
35:17
Speaker 1: latest in the so called cough Syrup murder. What we
35:22
Speaker 1: have is a Bible college graduate and his young wife
35:25
Speaker 1: who works at home and as a Sunday school teacher herself.
35:30
Speaker 1: She ends up murdered in the couple's home. I want
35:34
Speaker 1: you to hear the nine one one call that night.
35:39
Speaker 1: What do you mean by what happened? Dream? And then
35:45
Speaker 1: I turned on the lights and she stood on the
35:48
Speaker 1: floor hell. Hell, I'm trying of blood all over me,
35:55
Speaker 1: and there's a boy knife on the bird, and I
35:58
Speaker 1: think I did it. In the last hours, we learned
36:02
Speaker 1: that investigators reportedly say they have seized bloody bad sheets,
36:07
Speaker 1: a knife set, and an empty box of cold medicine
36:13
Speaker 1: from the home of that Bible graduate Matthew Phelps, the
36:17
Speaker 1: aspiring North Carolina pastor now suspected in brutally stabbing his
36:22
Speaker 1: young bride dead too. Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober, what
36:29
Speaker 1: significance is this to you that they find an empty
36:33
Speaker 1: box of cold medicine in the home? Well, Nancy, it's
36:37
Speaker 1: highly suggestive that he was abusing the cough medicine, that
36:40
Speaker 1: he was using it recreationally, and as you and I
36:43
Speaker 1: had discussed before, you know, this is voluntary intoxication and
36:46
Speaker 1: it's not going to be good for the defense. Along
36:48
Speaker 1: with the one call which in which he stated that
36:52
Speaker 1: he thinks the medicine can help him feel good and
36:55
Speaker 1: help him sleep, and so he wasn't using it as
36:58
Speaker 1: the way it was intended to be used medically, and
37:00
Speaker 1: if he was using it recreationally, it's certainly not helpful
37:03
Speaker 1: to their side. Well, according to a search warrant. We
37:06
Speaker 1: now have the couple's bed sheets, bedspread, pillow cases were
37:10
Speaker 1: all seized from the home. The warrant also states the
37:14
Speaker 1: items were stained with an unknown rant substance. Well, I
37:18
Speaker 1: can tell them what that is. It's blood. They also
37:21
Speaker 1: find an empty box of course, seten cough and cold medicine,
37:25
Speaker 1: a knife, block set, several laptops, a desktop computer, and
37:32
Speaker 1: Lauren's iPhone. Um. They also took things like mortgage statements
37:38
Speaker 1: and receipts. Now, I wonder what the significance of those are.
37:43
Speaker 1: But dat back to you, Dr Daniel Bober. When you
37:46
Speaker 1: find and I'm just thinking about this as a trial
37:49
Speaker 1: lawyer from that perspective, when you find an empty box
37:53
Speaker 1: of cold medicine and you know that the suspect is
37:57
Speaker 1: saying I took the cold medicine, I was to my mind,
38:00
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing. I would want
38:02
Speaker 1: to know this one. You got an empty box. Where
38:05
Speaker 1: is the bottle of cold medicine? Did he throw that away?
38:09
Speaker 1: If he did throw that away, why where is it?
38:13
Speaker 1: Or is it tablet form which I doubt was there
38:16
Speaker 1: any left? Do we have any idea how much he
38:21
Speaker 1: had taken? If there was any left? Also, when did
38:25
Speaker 1: he buy it? If he bought it a month before,
38:27
Speaker 1: the fact that it's empty now would go towards a defense.
38:31
Speaker 1: Is there a receipt? Can we narrow down when where
38:35
Speaker 1: it was purchased, maybe even get him on video purchasing it.
38:38
Speaker 1: That not and he drinks the whole bottle. I mean,
38:40
Speaker 1: there's still a lot to find in order to prove
38:44
Speaker 1: that he was voluntarily drinking corre siden yes or no, no,
38:49
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Not only when did he buy it,
38:51
Speaker 1: but is this something that he buys often? How often
38:53
Speaker 1: does he buy it and what frequency is he going
38:56
Speaker 1: to the store to get it. There there's a lot
38:58
Speaker 1: of issues here here regarding the consumption of this cough
39:02
Speaker 1: medicine and over what period of time that he actually
39:04
Speaker 1: consumes it. But again, if he was using it recreationally,
39:08
Speaker 1: that's going to be a real problem. Uh. You know
39:11
Speaker 1: when you were talking about the red the red stains
39:14
Speaker 1: on the sheets, actually that could also be the cough
39:16
Speaker 1: medicine itself, not only blood. So there's still his course,
39:21
Speaker 1: Satan read the corsine itself is not red, but depending
39:25
Speaker 1: on how the dye that you use in the syrup,
39:27
Speaker 1: it could be read. So that's you know something as well, Um,
39:33
Speaker 1: he stabbed her and the bad it's blood. More likely
39:37
Speaker 1: than not it's blood. Obviously back to the facts. Let's see,
39:40
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the oh yes, oh yes, corsting
39:45
Speaker 1: cough medicine b P as in blood pressure. What is
39:50
Speaker 1: that and what if he needs the significance of the BP?
39:54
Speaker 1: It would obviously be medicine for people who have high
39:58
Speaker 1: blood pressure because there are certain ingredients and cough medicines
40:02
Speaker 1: or cold medicines that, for example, one that I won't
40:06
Speaker 1: say because I know you're gonna give me a hard
40:07
Speaker 1: time about it, that go ahead plays for example, things
40:11
Speaker 1: like uh phennel propenolamine and other chemicals with names like
40:16
Speaker 1: that that can affect blood pressure. Uh. So it's probably
40:21
Speaker 1: a cough medicine design to people who have hypertension, so
40:24
Speaker 1: that doesn't affect their blood pressure. Um. Question to you,
40:31
Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober. To be a psychiatrist, you've got to
40:34
Speaker 1: be an m d. And then more school for psychiatry.
40:38
Speaker 1: You have to go to medical school before you're a psychiatrist. Correct. Okay,
40:42
Speaker 1: so what effect? Let me start with the body. What
40:46
Speaker 1: effect would a bottle of this stuff dude, Well, what
40:49
Speaker 1: would it do to you? Well, this drug is also
40:52
Speaker 1: related to drugs like ketamine and PCP. It affects something
40:57
Speaker 1: called the glutamate system, and it causes a dissociated of
41:00
Speaker 1: effective dissociative or out of body experience where you actually
41:04
Speaker 1: become disconnected from your thoughts and from your emotions, so
41:07
Speaker 1: you're sort of floating in space, so to speak. That's
41:10
Speaker 1: the kind of effect that it would happen. That's the
41:12
Speaker 1: kind of effect that you mean you float to the
41:15
Speaker 1: kitchen and get a butchered in your brain, not in reality?
41:20
Speaker 1: Uh huh, okay, you know, Joseph Scott Morgan, I mean, really,
41:26
Speaker 1: have you listened to the night when one call? Did
41:28
Speaker 1: you listen when I was playing at just Scott or
41:30
Speaker 1: are you tapping away on your iPad or something? I
41:33
Speaker 1: had a dream and my wife is dead. You know.
41:38
Speaker 1: The only other people that say that were O. J. Simpson,
41:41
Speaker 1: he had a dream, remember that he killed Nicole Brown? Whoopsie,
41:45
Speaker 1: it was true. And then Amanda Knocks from you know,
41:50
Speaker 1: her trip in Italy says I had a dream and
41:53
Speaker 1: I was covering my ears. I heard my roommate screaming
41:55
Speaker 1: in the next room. Well, of course, she was finally
41:57
Speaker 1: exonerated on appeal. But when people begin having clairvoyant type
42:03
Speaker 1: dreams and there happens to be a dead body in
42:07
Speaker 1: the same house with them, that gives me very nervous.
42:10
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, I'm I'm you know, I'm a
42:16
Speaker 1: science guy. I'm not interested in dreams. I'm interested in
42:19
Speaker 1: reality and reality here is that Also in this call,
42:23
Speaker 1: he alluded to the fact that there was blood. Uh,
42:25
Speaker 1: he alluded to the fact that he apparently had done this,
42:29
Speaker 1: that she didn't deserve this. I gotta I gotta commend
42:33
Speaker 1: to police here. You know what one of the most
42:35
Speaker 1: impressive things about this okay to me is is the
42:39
Speaker 1: fact that when you see his intake photo Nancy, he
42:42
Speaker 1: has what appears to be dried blood on his face,
42:44
Speaker 1: and that gives me an indication that the police did
42:46
Speaker 1: not allow him to clean himself up, which is key
42:51
Speaker 1: in any kind of case like this, because this demonstrates connectivity.
42:55
Speaker 1: They can demonstrate that he has what appears to be
42:58
Speaker 1: dried blood on his face, and I think that that
43:02
Speaker 1: is profound in this case. Also, we can tie the
43:06
Speaker 1: blood back on his face and also relative to the
43:11
Speaker 1: sheets if that is blood, which they will do several
43:14
Speaker 1: tests in order to determine that. That's gonna be a
43:16
Speaker 1: major key. Well, I mean, I'm telling you right now
43:19
Speaker 1: it's her blood. Of course, it's her blood. So, uh,
43:23
Speaker 1: everything's covered in blood. He's covered in blood. Obviously, it
43:27
Speaker 1: was sling back from and he's lifting the knife to
43:30
Speaker 1: stab her repeatedly as she's bound to have been fighting
43:34
Speaker 1: for her life. I mean, I can tell you that.
43:37
Speaker 1: How does that help me prove a murder Well, I
43:40
Speaker 1: can tell you this. Uh, we can say that it's
43:42
Speaker 1: blood all we want to, but from a scientific standpoint,
43:45
Speaker 1: I want it proved because I want this to be
43:49
Speaker 1: an airtight case and to demonstrate this I know, I know.
43:53
Speaker 1: Just take the next step with me, Joe Scott Morrigan,
43:56
Speaker 1: don't get me started, alright, I've already got bober On here.
44:00
Speaker 1: But tell me, Joe Scott, just go with me on this.
44:03
Speaker 1: Let's just pretend, Okay, let's take a tiny baby step
44:07
Speaker 1: and rationality. Of course, it's her blood. I can already
44:11
Speaker 1: prove our murder case. How does that help me prove
44:13
Speaker 1: it even more? Are you saying he should have woken
44:16
Speaker 1: up out of his dream? What are you trying to
44:17
Speaker 1: say whether or not he would have woken up. But
44:20
Speaker 1: I can say that he had some kind of recognition
44:23
Speaker 1: because he had missed this on the on the nine
44:25
Speaker 1: eleven tape that he said that he was apparently involved
44:29
Speaker 1: in this. Now this is gonna be more in a
44:32
Speaker 1: psychiatrist realm. But I don't know how they're going to
44:35
Speaker 1: explain this away. What we can tie back is can
44:38
Speaker 1: we put that knife in his hand and demonstrate that
44:41
Speaker 1: he is actually facilitating this death. I think that they're
44:44
Speaker 1: going to be able to do again. This goes to
44:46
Speaker 1: connectivity between him, the knife, and the defects in her body,
44:50
Speaker 1: which apparently appeared to be multiple. Ashley, Willcott help me, please?
44:55
Speaker 1: You know what, throw me a life right here, I'm
44:58
Speaker 1: floating in a sea of spec culation from Joe Scott
45:01
Speaker 1: Morgan and Dr Daniel Bober, the forensic psychiatrist. You know,
45:06
Speaker 1: the reality is there's two of them in the home.
45:10
Speaker 1: She's stabbed dead, he's covered in blood, and he says, wow,
45:15
Speaker 1: I was high on core sden I heard it makes
45:19
Speaker 1: you feel good. I can't believe I did this. It
45:22
Speaker 1: is and I'm missing something here. I don't and I
45:25
Speaker 1: mean Ashley when you do a demo, a demonstration in
45:29
Speaker 1: front of a jury, and you show the velocity needed
45:33
Speaker 1: to stab her repeatedly, over and over and over. Where
45:36
Speaker 1: blood's going anywhere? She struggling, She gets out of the bed,
45:38
Speaker 1: she tries to get away. That didn't wake him up.
45:42
Speaker 1: I really think it is murder. I do. And if
45:45
Speaker 1: he had this cold medicine in a system, this is
45:48
Speaker 1: a violent, violent act. And I think he did it
45:52
Speaker 1: and then felt remorseful and said, oh what can I say? Oh,
45:56
Speaker 1: that's right, I did take this cold medicine. I think
45:59
Speaker 1: he knew he was doing it. I do think they
46:01
Speaker 1: can prove murder in this case. You know what's interesting,
46:05
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott Um, you're married, you've got children. I think
46:10
Speaker 1: you'll know what I'm talking about. So he's got a
46:15
Speaker 1: Bible degree, he could be a pastor. He's doing yards.
46:20
Speaker 1: She's trying to work from home. You know, the most
46:24
Speaker 1: dangerous time for a woman in a relationship, as if
46:27
Speaker 1: she tries to leave. Who's not to say, now, this
46:30
Speaker 1: is speculation that that night she's like, listen, you know what,
46:35
Speaker 1: I'm tired of putting your bills. Let's take a little
46:38
Speaker 1: break for a minute. And um, let's take a separation.
46:43
Speaker 1: You know, that is the most dangerous time for a woman.
46:46
Speaker 1: That's when most domestic commicides occur, right am I right about?
46:51
Speaker 1: I agree? And I think I don't know that because
46:56
Speaker 1: in her video that she posted just that night, trying
47:00
Speaker 1: to sell candles from her own business, I'm just trying
47:04
Speaker 1: to make money anyway, she could she looked I've watched
47:07
Speaker 1: it a hundred times. She looks happy in her in
47:10
Speaker 1: her life. But that that means nothing, Ashley. That doesn't
47:14
Speaker 1: mean anything that she looked happy on a video. And
47:16
Speaker 1: he could be under a lot of stress because of
47:19
Speaker 1: the financial needs of the family. And right, all of
47:23
Speaker 1: those things are true, And who knows what could have
47:27
Speaker 1: triggered him any conversation she might have had, speculation again,
47:31
Speaker 1: like you said about separating, about the finances, about the
47:35
Speaker 1: condition of their marriage, about the state of affairs, any
47:39
Speaker 1: of those things could have triggered him to react this violently.
47:44
Speaker 1: And and they're fairly young. I mean they've been married
47:46
Speaker 1: less than a year. Maybe one morning she woke up
47:49
Speaker 1: and found out it ain't all that and a bag
47:51
Speaker 1: of chips, and she's like, whoa wait a minute, this
47:55
Speaker 1: is not what I signed up for another thing to
47:58
Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober Forensics, psychia risk this stuff. I mean,
48:02
Speaker 1: here's the deal. You don't need a dope dealer. You
48:05
Speaker 1: can just go to Walgreens and get um coreseeden because
48:10
Speaker 1: it tastes like candy. Dr Daniel Baber, tastes like It's true, Nancy.
48:16
Speaker 1: I mean, people, it just amazed me as a physician,
48:19
Speaker 1: as an addictive Wait a minute, you're not gonna argue
48:22
Speaker 1: with me that it tastes like candy. You're not gonna
48:24
Speaker 1: say something like, well, you know, I can't say myself
48:27
Speaker 1: that it tastes like it tastes like candy. Is like
48:29
Speaker 1: anything you want, Nancy. You can put anything any flavoring
48:32
Speaker 1: you want. But the point is is that it's amazed
48:34
Speaker 1: to me that people will find anything to abuse, whether
48:36
Speaker 1: it's Benadrill, whether it's core Siton and it's you know
48:40
Speaker 1: it's or suit of fed. It's right on your shelf.
48:42
Speaker 1: You don't, like you said, you don't need a dope dealer.
48:44
Speaker 1: You don't need to go to go into a back alley.
48:46
Speaker 1: You can just go into a Walgreens or a CBS
48:49
Speaker 1: that's right there. To Dave mac has he been formally
48:56
Speaker 1: charged and felts we charged with murder. He's being held
48:59
Speaker 1: at the White County without bail and facing life in
49:01
Speaker 1: prison or even the death penalty. We have our eye
49:04
Speaker 1: on a rolling North Carolina courtroom waiting for the latest
49:09
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