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Soldier On · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: is recorded on online dating. We've all heard a story,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: good or bad. It's the way the world now. You
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: log on, upload your best picks, think of a few
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: witty pickup lines, and get swiping. And if you're lucky,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: you won't be swiping too long because the perfect person
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: is right there at the tap of a button, without
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: even having to leave the couch.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: There were gifts that were rocking up like I'd come
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: home to, like long stem red roses, flowers glore. My
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: unit at one time looked like a florist, and there
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: were all these packages and everything showing up, and I'm like, well,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: he's like really invested, Like you know, this is actually
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a legitimate relationship.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But how well can you really know someone before you've
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: actually met them? How can you try everything they're telling
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: you where they say they live, or their job is,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: or their intentions.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I thought it would stop, but then a current affair
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: called me and then I was like, oh my god.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: And I think that's when it had kind of really
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: slapped me across the face that I was like, fuck,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I've been scammed.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. The year
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: was twenty ten when Kylie's story begins. At thirty years old.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: She had her life together, a great job, great friends.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: There was just one part she felt was missing.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: And I was at a point where all my friends
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: were in relationships, popping out, babies, getting engaged, getting married,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: and I was the single pringle, and I was starting
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: to think, well, what the hell was wrong with me?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Like I had a good job, it was just like
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: there was something missing, and it was just like, well,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: why have they got it and I don't. And it
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: was at the point then that dating apps were like
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: the new unspoken thing, Like people would never talk about
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: getting on a dating app to meet someone. So I
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: kind of didn't tell anyone that I'd signed up. And
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: that was back in the day when Oasis was the
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: bumble of its generation, and I was like, oh, well,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: it can't hurt, you know. I wasn't so much a
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: shy person. It was just too busy to go and
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: try and meet people in the old fashioned way of
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: like the laundro matter on the bus or the train,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: or the cliches they give in the movies. So I
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: thought I'd give online dating or try and see what
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: this whole new thing was in terms of dating and
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: meeting people.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So ont oasis she went. She set up a profile,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: added some photos and throw caution to the wind.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: It was kind of like feeling in a job application
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: because it was all the questions I ask you and
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: everything they want to know. It was like, okay, so
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: put it out there and it would have been probably
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: about three weeks and then that's when Liam and I connected.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: The photos were definitely what sucked me in because he
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: was a good looking dude. It's like think of Channing Tater.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: The profile was very detail so it described about his job,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: that he was in the US Army but based in Australia.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: He had a daughter, he was a single father, he
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: was looking to meet the love of his life, loved
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: being outdoorsy, so all the things I looked for. Of
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: course good looking as well, had a job. It just
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: screamed out like to me. So I connected and sent
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: a message going hey, how you would love to chat
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: and didn't really think i'd get anything back because I
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: was very skeptical about online dating. And next thing I know,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: there was a ping back.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: They started chatting, and Kylie immediately liked what she saw.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: He was on deployment in Afghanistan with the Army, looking
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: to obviously chat to someone in the times where he
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: wasn't doing active duties and like they're downtime basically. So
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: it was more like, I have a lot of friends
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: in the army, so I know how difficult it can
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: be to be away from love one, so I kind
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of saw it as a way to fill in his
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: time and just be someone that he could talk to
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and be out of what he was there for. He
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: would be deployed for around six months to a year,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: and then back for a couple of months and then
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: sent away again. Man in uniform. Do I need to
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: say anymore? Yeah, So I think that's the lure of
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: what it was. It was like, oh, he's in the army,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: he's good looking. I'm like, what more could a woman
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: asks for?
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: But it was more than that. They got chatting a
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: lot in the first few days, and Kylie quickly became
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: pretty smitten.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I was in Sydney and he was in Townsville, which
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I've lived in as well, so I know the area
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: quite oh, and I thought, well, that's not so bad
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: at least, that's another point that we had in common.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: And we started talking about why I left and what
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: brought him to Townsville in specific, and you know, out
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: of all regions in Australia, why was it Townsville And
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: he was just basically that's where the deployment was. We
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: would talk about everything and anything, and we'd be up
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: to all hours and it was like when we were chatting,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: it just flowed naturally, like there were no awkward moments.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: We were talking literally every day, so there wasn't a
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: day that we missed, you know, any opportunity that I could,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I'd be like sneakingly logging in on my phone to
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: see if he'd left messages or you know, as soon
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: as I get notifications saying that, oh, you've received a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: new message, I was like back on there. So it
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: was a kind of lust pool that had me sort
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: of that attracted. It was like, well, hang on, here's
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: someone that's someone invested in me for a change, you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: and they're local, so it was just like, let's explore
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and it was just again, Yeah, we'd chat about anything
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: and everything. Remember your high school crush and when you
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: first feel like you've met the lover of your life.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: It was all giddy. It was all asking each other
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: about each other's lives and getting to know each other.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: So how you would expect an online relationship to start.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: There was that anticipation of getting messages back from him,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: so it was getting really invested in lack. Well, you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I want to divulge information about my life to him
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: and see if I fit what he's looking for.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And what Kylie hasn't told us at this point is
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: she'd had a pretty rough trot when it came to love,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I'd been.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Through a lot. Specifically when I was younger again, I
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: was dating someone in the army that unfortunately was killed
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: in Afghanistan on active duty, and at quite a young age,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: that kind of really destroyed me, and for a while
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I just didn't want to date. I was just not
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: interested in it. It took me a while to get
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: back on the dating bandwagon. When I did, the relationship
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I was in were awful because they were just like
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: filled with cheating or just disrespect or they just wouldn't
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: last long. So think at that point when I met
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Liam online, I was at a point where I was like, Okay,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: well I'm sick of a single pringle and the third
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: whell and you know, it was like, I think I'm
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: now in a point where I want that special piece
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: that was missing, so I had to go looking for it.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: That wall was up massively because as soon as he
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: said that he was in the army, I was like,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: oh no, I'm like, oh, and I just I think
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: not so much reacted negatively, but I had that wall
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: up and he could tell, and he was like, what's
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: your problem with people in the army? I said, well,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: it's not really a problem with the people. It's a
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: problem with the job and you know, going to fight
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: wars that are not ours to fight. If things progressed,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I just didn't want to go through that again. And
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: he did so much to convince me that his job
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't that dangerous, like he was doing other things that
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: weren't out on the front line. And I was more like,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: but you're in the army. I'm like, you're out there
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: basically with a gun being shot at or shooting at
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: other people. I'm like, your life is still at risk,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: in particular when you're in Afghanistan. When you're somewhere like
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Solomon Islands, they're generally your peacekeeping missions. So I kind
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: of knew that being in Afghanistan. It did have that
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: wall of like, is this the last time that I'm
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: ever going to hear from you? What's going to happen?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: How am I going to get told? Like all those
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: questions did cycle back through my head, and it was
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: just like, because some time had passed since when I
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: was that young and went through that, it was like, well,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: maybe try and open yourself up to again and don't
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: be so hard on yourself. If that's going to stop
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: you from finding love, then you're probably going to be
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: alone for the rest of your life. So it was
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: kind of it did take me a lot to really
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: drop that wall and to want to sort of pursue it.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: There's no downplaying it. That's a significant trauma. So for
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Kylie to have dropped her walls for someone else and
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the Army was big, but their connection was obvious and
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: he made her feel a million bucks.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: It's nice eye, it's a nice smile. Just my personality
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: because I am very out there considering all the things
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I've been through in life, I'm still pretty much a
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: big goofball and just I can articulate myself. Well, it
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: was more just yeah. He was like, you look like
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: you're someone that's very down to earth, very caring, which
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I am. Yeah, it was just I think he liked
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: what he saw too, because I did have those walls
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: up and the barriers, and I didn't want to sort
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: of drop them so easily because it was like, I
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: don't want to be heard again. And I did kind
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: of put the whole guy through the ringer in terms
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: of just like being so defensive and protective of myself
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: and him having to reassure me that no, look, you know,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to meet you. I'm looking forward to
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: spending time with you. We're going to do all these
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: amazing things, things like going on the Harbor Cruisers road troops.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: So we spoke about everything that we were going to do.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: When he came to Sydney, there were gifts that were
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: rocking up like I'd come home to, like long stem
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: red roses, flowers glore. My unit at one time looked
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: like a florist and there were all these packages and
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: everything showing up, and I'm like, well, he's like really invested,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: like you know, this is actually a legitimate relationship. And
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: that's when I started telling people I was in a relationship.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: But she wasn't silly. You couldn't have an entire relationship online.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: It's actually Liam that suggested getting onto Skype. I was like, yes, absolutely,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Like I want to hear this guy's voice, because, let's
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: face it, you know, hot guy, hot voice that you
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: can't be a hot guy and an ugly voice. I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: was just like, being that good looking, he's got to
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: obviously sound hot as well. Again, very shallow, I think.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: So when he suggested that we get on Skype, I
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: was like, yep, great. So we looked at our time
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: differences and we found a time that would be suitable.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Me being that professional that I was back then, it
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: was like, well, I'll book it in as a meeting request.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So I'd blocked out time in my diary that I
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: was busy, and I told my friends that. I was like,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: oh no, I've got a work meeting because at that point,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: again none of them knew that I was even online dating.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: It was just like, oh yeah, I'm seeing someone, but
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I was very vague on details and I didn't divulge much.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: So we came to the skype call and it was
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: like I remember racing home like I was back then
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: again it was public transport, so I was like, hurry up, bus,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: get me the f home because I've got an important call.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And it was just being really giddy, like it was
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: almost like going on your first date again as a teenager,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and all those butterflies and the crazy feelings. And I
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: remember logging in and just waiting for him, and then
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: when he popped up and it started ringing, I was like,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: oh God, do I answer. I'm like so it took
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: a couple of minutes before I was like, all right,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: let's answer. And I was on full camera, but then
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: there was a black screen and I was like, okay,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like not what I was expecting. And I said
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: to him, oh, is there a problem with your like
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: visual I'm like, I can hear you, and yeah, he
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: did have a hot voice, but it was like I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: can't see you, and he said, oh no, no, no,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I can't turn the camera on because we're not allowed
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: to do video calls. So I left it for a
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: little bit and then we'd talk and then I'd say, oh,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: you know, if no one's around, maybe you should just
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: try and turn it on, even for like two seconds,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like break the law. It's all a bit of fun
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: and games. I'm like, you don't get caught, it's okay,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: And so I was trying to convince him, and he
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: was just like, no, no, I can't. I can't. I'll
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: get really big trouble if I'm caught, like they'll put
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: me in like military prison. And so we moved from
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: being an online chat to more skype chats, and every
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: time the camera wasn't working, me being me, I would
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: keep trying to get him to turn the camera on
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: or maybe use a phone somewhere quietly in like the
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: bunk rooms and stuff, and it just wouldn't happen. So
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that was kind of the first point where I was like, Okay,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: why doesn't he want to be on camera with me?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Like we've been talking for all this time, Like what's
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: gone on? Is there something wrong with him? Like has
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: he got something on his face that I'm not going
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: to like? So I went through all these possible different
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: scenarios of why isn't he turning his camera.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: On, but they did speak a lot. It's not like
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: he wasn't real. And soon things between them became even
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: more real too.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I think the official of oh will you be my
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: girlfriend thing kind of came in the delivery of like
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a dozen long stem red roses with like a little
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: card in it that was like, literally just on it,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: will you be my girlfriend. I was like, was not
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: expecting it at all. Like when I got home, I
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, passal, and I thought it was for
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: one of my housemates. And then I looked and I'm like, oh,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: it's mine. I'm like I haven't ordered anything. And then
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: when I opened it, I was like, oh my god,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: so like crying and all that kind of stuff, because again,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: at that point, I was very invested in it, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I felt that this was someone I cared for and
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: was I falling for quite possibly, because there were definitely
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: feelings there. Like I was telling people, oh, you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: not interested in dating, because in my mind I was
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: waiting on someone to come back and to see me,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: and it was so to me it was definitely a relationship.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And even when we're on the phone, he would be like, oh,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: you're my girl now, like you know you belong with me.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Our life together is going to be great. So we did,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I guess, reference each other as a couple, and the
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: things that we were going to do not I or you.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: It was us and his daughter and all that stuff,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: so it felt like a legitimate relationship. It got to
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: a point where we were saying I love you, and
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: for me, that was something very hard to do because
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: back with that partner that did unfortunately die in Afghanistan,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: that was the last thing we ever said. So for
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: a very long time in my life, I couldn't even
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: say I love you to my own mother because it
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: was just something that it was just too traumatic for
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: me to actually say, because it was like in my
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: mind it was like if I tell this guy I
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: love him, something's going to happen to take it away,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: and I just didn't want it to end prematurely. I
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: tried to put it off as long as I could,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: and Liam would then start saying, oh, don't you love me?
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: You don't say it, and it's kind of like, was
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I forced into saying it? No, not really, because I
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: got to a point where I'm like, well, actually, no,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: I think I do love this person. Because I was
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: always thinking about them that were sending gifts. I was like,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: really felt like a part of his life.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Things were perfect, well almost, and after what seems like
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: an eternity, the inevitable finally happened. Liam was due home
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: from deployment. The timing couldn't have been better.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: He was going to be home for my birthday, and
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I thought, what more could I asks for in terms
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: of a birthday present? It was like I didn't care
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: what I got as long as it was him back.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And we spoke about whether he would go back to
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Townsville and then come straight to Sydney, or would he
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: come straight in to Sydney, or would I fly back
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: up to Townsville. So we did talk about the dynamics
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: of how it would work, and we agreed that he
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: would go to Townsville to sort out affairs there first
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: and then organize a trip down to Sydney and sent
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: me his flight. Itinery of when he was going to
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: be at the airport, and I was like, great, I'll
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: come and meet you at the airport. On that particular day,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I got up and it was just not that I've
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: ever been married, but it was like giddy, like, oh,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to meet the love of my
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: life today and planning outfits and getting my hair done,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: makeup done, all of that done, like facials, petticures, manicures like.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I went all out because I thought, well, when this
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: guy gets off this plane, I want to like knock
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: him dead. And then it was a matter of going
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: to the airport, sitting there and watching the plane land
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: and the plane take off.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yep, you heard that right. Kylie was waiting at the airport.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: But Liam never got off the plane.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: First of all, it was did he get on the plane?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Have I missed him? Did something go wrong? And he's
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: not called me. I tried to call him because at
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: that point he had a phone too, and I had
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the number. The phone was off and I was just like, okay, well,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: maybe hasn't turned it back on yet. In the terminal,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I even went up to the counter and I said, look,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: you know, was this person on the plane? And of
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: course they were always like, oh, we can't give out
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that information, but we can tell you the flight left
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Townsville and it has arrived. All people that were checked
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: in got off, and I was like, that doesn't really help.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: So I sat at the airport just I think it
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: was for a good three hours, even after the flight landed,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: going maybe he's just lost in the terminal or I've
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: missed him, And so I walked around trying to see
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: if I could find him. I was like sending texts,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: probably like a maniac. He would have received about a
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: hundred text messages from me going where are you? And
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I think then I found like a meeting point, and
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, I'll meet here, and so I
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: would say, oh, look, I'm standing at this, I'd take photos.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I just started getting really frantic, and I was like,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: probably a hot mess or like a hot raccoon in
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: an airport, because no doubt Miss Garrel would have been
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: running down my face. But it was just that's when
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I started to get like all the other questions of
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: like what's going on? Like have i been made to
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: look like a dickhead because I'm sitting at the airport
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: for so long? Like what's going on? I think I
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: didn't really want to let it go, so I was
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: hopeful that maybe it was like one of those romantic
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: movie cliches, that he was still in the airport and
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I'd find him when everyone would gone, and I was like, no,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I kind of wake up, like he's he's not here.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: So on the trip home again, it was trying to
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: analyze what had happened, like why didn't he show up again?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Trying to call them messages. It was like literally going
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: mannik as to like what's happened? Like what's going on?
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Itinery like everything you know, and messages of him saying
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I'm at the airport, we're boarding the plane, and I
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: was like, I think that fueled the excitement too, but
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: then to have that all crashed down, it was just
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: like gutted. I think it was pretty much just like
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: someone had ripped in, like reached in and just ripped
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: my heart right out of my chest and it was
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: just like okay, like does he not like me? And
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: he just didn't want to tell me? So is that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: why he didn't get on the plane? Like it was
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: all just a mess, like I was a mess. It
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: brought back all the past of all the relationships I've
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: been in. It was just like, oh my god, here's
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: another one that just doesn't want to be with me.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Isn't man enough to tell me he doesn't want to
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: be with me? And then there was that exactly that
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: like Okay, I've said I love you to this guy
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and did that scar him off? And so that was
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: kind of one of the other avenues I went down.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: He's like, Okay, maybe this is life's way of saying, Nah,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: you don't deserve this, so I'm taking it off you.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So I became really angry at life because it was
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: just like, you know, I tell someone I love them
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: and then they disappear. I'm like, so it kind of
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: put me back into an angry stage of like, I
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: just I don't want to date anymore. I was angry.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It was like, God, help if he messages me or
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: calls me, because I was going to rip him apart.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: He did message her though, four days later.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And it was like a really sob story of a message.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: It was more like, hey, babe, I'm so so sorry.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Something came up. I couldn't get there. And I was like, okay, well,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: what was the something that was so important that you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: would sacrifice an airfair, which, let's face it, they're not cheap,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: and he was like, Oh, my daughter's really sick. She's
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: in hospital, she needs all this medication. I didn't know
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: what to do. I didn't think to call, and I
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: was like, well, shouldn't I have been at least the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: first phone call to say, hey, you know, something's up
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: with my daughter. I can't make it, I said. I
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: would have been pretty understanding, I said, but to not
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: show up. I'm like, I'll keep it g rated. But
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: did let loose some really some really absolute crazy language,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: because I was just absolutely pessed off to the max.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: It was just like, I don't think you understood. Like
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I sat at the airport for hours waiting for you,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: looking like a fucking moron, crying, running around, frantic messaging
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: like a maniac, and you were never on the plane,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and you could have saved me that drama by at
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: least calling and saying, hey, something's come up, and I
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: would have understood. Well, I'm like, it's not really good enough.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Like I get that you're a father, but you've also
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: invested all this time into someone. I'm like, you couldn't
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: even give me the respect or the decency of saying, hey,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: you know, something's come up. I think in his mindset too,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Like again he was all, oh, I'm so sorry, Like
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I should have called. I should have you know, it
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: was all these I should have I should have done this,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I should have done that, and he just then kept
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: sending more gifts. So it was like, well, red roses
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: aren't going to cut it all the time that you
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: fuck up, like you can't fix problems with flowers or
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: gifts and stuff like that. So I was just like
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: to the point of even throwing them out or giving
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: them away to people because it was like I just
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: didn't want them. It was like, it's not the apology
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I wanted. It's like I wanted a face to face apology,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: like make it right and do the right thing and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: come and see me like you said you would. So
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: it kind of it was our first fight, I guess, but.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: She ended up forgiving him. She wouldn't forget, but he
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: was really sorry, and she wasn't selfish. She knew, of
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: course he had to put his child first. So after
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: she calmed down and he apologized about three hundred more times,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: they agreed she would fly up to him in Townsville.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I looked at making plans into going up to Townsville
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: to see family for Christmas, and I thought I could
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: tie it in with a trip to him, And when
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I told him, he was over the moon, much like
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I was when he said that he was going to
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: be coming to Sydney. He was all like, oh, that
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: would be amazing, Like I can't wait to see you.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Like we could do some amazing things in Townsville. Well
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I know Townsville. Well, so yeah, I could show you
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: my old favor spots and all that kind of stuff.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: And he was like, yep, no, that's cool. And I said,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: well we could even consider because the troop in between
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Townsville and North Queensland, where my family's from, it was
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: only about five hours. So I'm like, we could even
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: do a road trip together, so I can fly into
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Townsville and then we can go up and see them.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, because, let's face it, road trips are a
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: great way to spend time with people with bad dad
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: jokes and all that kind of stuff that I pull out,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: so all the crazy stuff, and he was all for it.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: He was like, yep, great. So then we started looking
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: at dates and all that stuff, and I looked at
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: schedule and that I think the first thing I did
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: when I went to work the next day was like
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: put in for annual leave and I said, all right, great,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I want I think it was four weeks off, so
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: taking Christmas through to the New year period off to
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: go back home basically, and so then from there we
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: just started talking about all the things that we would
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: do and the countdown. So it was kind of somewhat
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: he was kind of forgiven for the whole airport thing
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, look, just let it go. Otherwise
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you're going to be angry for your whole life. You'll
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: probably wreck this. And relationships they all fight, and that
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: was our first fight. So it was like, as a couple,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have fights, regardless if it's online or in person.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Then the day arrived, he asked.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: If I wanted to be picked up from the airport,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: and I said, no, Look that's okay. I'll get a
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: rental car because if we're going to drive up to
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Cannes and Mariba and all that kind of area, I'm like,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: we're going to need a car. So I was like,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I'll get a rental car. I'm like, I'll just grab
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: your address and i'll come meet you. I said, this
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: is my flight details. I'm like, by the time I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: get out of the airport, get the car, get to
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: your plate. So it would have been mid morning that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I would have gotten up there. When I got there,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I called and I said, oh, I'm like just off
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the plane. Now, I'm just going to go pick up
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: the car and I'll be at yours within about twenty
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: twenty five minutes. And he was all excited and everything,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: and I was like remember sitting in the car, going,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: oh my god, like, now we're actually going to meet
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: and he can't run because I'm going to be at
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: his house. I'm like, what's the worst thing that can happen.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe he'll open up the door and slam it in
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: my face, or like all of those scenarios were going
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: through my head of like, Okay, now we're going to meet.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: It's like what will I do when I first see him?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Am I going to kiss him? Am I going to
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: hug him? Am I going to slap him? Am I
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: going to punch him for all the bad stuff? Am
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I going to let it all out? Or is it
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: just going to be crazy town? Slam the door and
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: off we go into the bedroom for a few hours.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: So all of that was going through my head while
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I was driving, and I remember even when I pulled
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: up out the front of the place, I was just like, oh, oh,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I get it together. Like I was just giddy. It
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: was like again that feeling of your first ever relationship
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and you're just like, oh, you know, I'm about to
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: meet this man that I've like given so much of
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: my time too, and like a large piece of me
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: being my heart. And I remember walking up the footpath
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, is this what it's like when
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: guys are walking up to pick you up for your
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: first date? And I'm like, it's normally the other way around,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: but I'm not traditional with something. So I remember knocking
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: on the door and again, like my tonsils, I was
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: constantly swallowing, like with nerves, and I'm like, get it
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to keeviy more on, like you know, you're in your thirties,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: like you should have this shit all down back.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: The moment was here, So knocked on the.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Door and constantly swallowing through nerves, and then the door opened,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: and I remember all that excitement just turning to shock
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: because it was an old lady standing at the door.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: So I was just frozen, like I couldn't even move
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: my hands, my feet, couldn't talk. I was just literally gobsmacked.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And this lovely little old lady is come. You're a
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: right deer, like are you okay? Like what can I
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: help you with? Like are you here to sell something?
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: And I was just like at that point, I just
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: started crying, like I broke down on this lady's doorstep
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, oh my god, like I look like
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the biggest fall. And then eventually I got the courriage
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: up and I was like, I'm looking for Liam and
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: she was like who, I said, Liam? I'm like, is
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: that maybe your grandson? Or am I any relation? She's like,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: oh no, like I don't know. Liam doesn't live here.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And I was just like not at all, Like how
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: long have you lived in this house? Like did you
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: recently move in? Have I got the right address? So
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I started just going frantic again with all these questions
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and firing them at this poor little old lady, And
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: it was just like trying to understand in my head
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: when all along, all I'm telling myself is like what
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: the fuck? Every time I'm asking questions, but my brain's
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: like what the fuck? Jumped in the car and I
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: drove up to see my family and I didn't even
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: mention anything, like I just bottled it up, because again,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: the point that online dating at that point was something
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: that people didn't really talk about or it was seen
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: as like the weird way of meeting people. It was like,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I don't want my family to know that I've been
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: like that. I'm I met this person online and I
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: don't want them to know that I'm going through this
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: kind of trauma. Like Christmas is meant to be happy.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I hadn't been back home for Christmas in quite some time,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: so it was a while that i'd been home, so
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: it was like, I just want to enjoy it, enjoy
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: the time with family, friends, And I was just like,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I'll deal with all the other crap on my own.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't even tell my best friend and we
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: have known each other since high school, and the people
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: closest to me, I just didn't even tell a soul,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Like I lived through the whole thing on my own
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: and just bottled it up. And anytime people would ask
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: about Liam, I was just like, oh no, he's still overseas.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: So I was lying to my inner circle because I
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: didn't want to look like the dickhead that I felt
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: like I was. I became very, very angry, like I
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: was no longer the sweet and innocent person or the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: sweet person that I can be. I just like ripped
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: all that off, and I was just going mental. I
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: was like constantly calling and the phone wasn't answering, so
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: he wasn't even picking up the phone like had kind
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: of in a sense cut communication with me for a bit,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and then I was just like what the hell. So
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I'd be messaging constantly again, like just really throwing a
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: tirade of abuse at him, and I got to a
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: point that I'm like, you know, I'm not going to
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: let this interrupt the time with my family. I'll have
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: my time and then I'll deal with that crap when
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I get back to Sydney.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: The whole time Kylie was in Townsville for three weeks,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: she didn't hear a word from him.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: That's all I wanted to know, was like the what
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: why aren't you meeting me? And then, surprisingly enough, I
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: think it was about three and a half weeks and
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: another package arrives and it was a whole big sub
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: story of oh, I'm sorry, and it was like cute
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: little teddy bears and like just trying to buy me back,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: and it was just like I was just aggressive and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: it was just like what was the excuse this time?
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: And again it was his daughter and it was like
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: you kind of can't keep using your kid as an excuse.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I went to your address and I was like,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: what the fuck? You gave me some old ladies address
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: and he was like, oh, that's my grandma's house. I'm like, well,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: your grandma doesn't even remember you, because she was like, no,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Liam lives there. And he was like, oh, well she
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: suffers dementia and all that. I said, no, demensia patients
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: that bad. Like he was just trying to backtrack and
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: it was just like Noah, like you're being caught out.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like, it's not in nana's house. I'm like, who's
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: our dress did you give me? And he was like, oh,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: it was a mate's mom's house. And I said, well,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: why would you send me to the wrong address. I'm like,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: do you even live in that part of town? When
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: he was like no, I don't. And I was like okay,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like so again, why would you give me a
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: wrong address? And he was I got nervous. I didn't
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: know what you would think of me. I was scared.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, if you were scared, we could
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: have met in a public place. I'm like that would
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: have been probably more safer for both of us, Like,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: there's plenty of places we could have met on the beach,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: could have met in the mall, could have met at
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the picture theater, Like, there's so many different places we
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: could have met. That's not good enough. I said, until
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you tell me the truth. And I said, nothing but
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: the truth. I'm like, I don't even really want to
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: hear from you because I was just so angry, and
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: he just kept sending gifts and it was like, no,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: you can't keep buying people with gifts. I'm like, it's okay, great,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: you've got money, but that's good. I'm like, obviously you
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: need to be spending it elsewhere. Because at that point,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I'd had enough, like I wanted out. There were lots
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: of things that were going through my mind. I was like,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: h is he actually even in Australia was one of
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: the big ones. I was like, Okay, was he actually
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: even in towns?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Is he actually even in my country? I think at
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that point it was like other photos actually him? Or
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: are they someone else? Like what could possibly go wrong
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: for him not to want to meet me? And then
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I even started to flip it back on myself. I
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: was like, what's wrong with me, Like, why doesn't he
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: want to meet me? Like? Am I not pretty? Am
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I not? Like? What was it about me that he
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: maybe didn't like? So I started to really break myself
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: down in trying to think that maybe it was me,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: rather than looking at it and going, well, he's the
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: one with you issue, Like I put myself out there
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and I just felt like it wasn't being reciprocated to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the level I deserve and expect it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: So she cut him off. She ignored his calls and messages.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: She knew she deserved better. But then after a few weeks,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: she started to feel really lonely.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: I started to miss him, and I was like, I
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: missed having those initial chats, Like I would go back
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: and read all of our initial messages because I'd screenshot
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: at them and saved them because it was like when
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I was having a shitty day, I'd read back over them.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you know, someone thinks the world of me.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So I would go back and I'd be like, well,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I want to find that relationship again, And I'm like,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I just don't want to go through the hassle of
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: having to troll through profiles and go through the whole hime,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: my name is this again, and the old first aids
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that. I was just like, well, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I was so invested in him. I'm like I actually
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: missed him. So I reached out and I was like, oh, sorry,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I was a bit of a dick, but can you
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: understand why I was angry? And like instantly I got
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: a message back, and then that's when we started talking again,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and I was just like, you know, don't ever do
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: that again. Like I'm a forgiving person. I'm willing to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: give you another chance, but you just can't be doing
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: that stuff, like you need to be honest with me.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I reminded him of the past relationships and how badly
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I'd been hurt, and I just didn't want to go
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: through that, like I wanted people to be honest with me.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And I said to him at that point, like if
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: you can't be honest moving forward, then let's not move forward.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Let's just cut it. And he was like no, no, no,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I'm really sincerely sorry. I'll do better. I'll be better,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: and I was like okay, fine, and so yeah, I
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: was like all right, let's give it another go. And
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: then next thing we know, he's being deployed again. It
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: would have been the January of twenty twelve, and he
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: was going back pretty much at the end of that month,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: so we didn't have much time in a sense. So
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: it was just again we went back to the chatting.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: The gifts kept coming, and it was just like, all right,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: well it's back on track, Like that kind of giddy
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: feeling was starting to come back, and of course the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: feeling of concern deployment. It's the words that no one
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: in any sort of military family or connection wants to hear,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: because you just think the worst and then you try
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: and find out where they're going. And when I heard
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: it was back to Afghanistan, I was like, oh, here
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: we go, Like that's when that wall came back up again,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: of like oh my god, Like I'm like, you're going
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: to be on patrol, like watch out for landmines, like
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: keep looking at the ground, don't look up. Like it
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: was just all that trauma coming through and it was
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: like I even resorted to asking him if there was
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: any way he could get out of it, and he
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: was like, no, it's like it's my job back when
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: we're deployed, we have to go. And I was like, well,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: surely there's something you can do. Like I used to
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: joke around about breaking his arms so he couldn't go,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: and he was like, no, when we get the call up,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: we have to go.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: So he did. They'd now been together over a year
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and still hadn't met, and now they wouldn't be able
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to for another six months at least. But Kylie was
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: determined this was her guy. She could wait.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of where it all went downhill. From there.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: It was again just all the excuses with not going
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: on camera, and then I started recognizing in the calls
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the voices were starting to change, and I was like,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: this does not sound like Liam anymore. It sounds like
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I've got someone completely different on the other end of
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the phone. Then I'd start hearing noises, I'd start hearing
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: people in the background, and I'm like, okay, Like, if
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: you're deployed and you're in the communications tents, I know
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: how noisy they can be, but there's no females in there,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: like you're in a male unit. And it was just
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: the times that the calls were coming through as well
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: seem to be odd, and even some of the numbers
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: that were coming through. It wasn't always the same number,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: and I was just like, all right, something is just
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: going on. I'm like, I don't know what the hell,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: but it's just all weird. And then it was like
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: other people were getting on Skype and I was just
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: like I called him out, don't know. I was like, hey,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: what's going on. I'm like, you don't sound the same,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and he would just get aggressive. He was like, you
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: know what, I sound like. We've been speaking for so long.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Why would you question that I would be anyone? But
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not. And any time I bought up any kind
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: of questions of questioning who he was his character, I
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: was just met with aggression. From there, we sort of
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: it would be very rocky, like we would talk and
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: then not talk, and then I was just again because
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I was so invested and thought that I'd actually given
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: this person my heart, I was like, ah, benefit of
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: the doubt, naive me just kept going and it was like, oh, well,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: we'll get past it. We got through one deployment, we'll
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: get through another. But again, there were times that we
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: would talk, then we wouldn't talk, then we would talk
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: and wouldn't Gifts would still arrive, and again, like there
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: were times it would go back to like it was
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: when we first started talking. It was all like the
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: flirty chats, and I was like, okay, well this is
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: the person I've got. And so that went on for
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: another good part of a year because he was constantly deployed,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: so he'd come back and he'd be back briefly and
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: then sent back again. So it was about another year
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: that it was pretty much rocky like that. So at
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: that point I was also starting to go, well, is
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: this a relationship I really want to be in. I
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: was like, I've put so much time and effort and
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: to a degree money into it. I was just like,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: this isn't the kind of relationship that I want. It's
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: not the one I deserve. Like I looked at who
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I was in the mirror and it was just like,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: how are you? Like I thought I had a really
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: good grip on the kind of person I was because
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I had such a great job, great friends, and it
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, okay, I was missing a special someone.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: But I was like, am I defined by having a
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: relationship in my life? And it was just like nah,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, this isn't serving me.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: So she ended it. She told him over the phone.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: She couldn't keep her life on hold like this anymore.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: But guess what. That very day, he'd been planning to
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: call her with some big news.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: When I finished this tour, I'm actually leaving the army
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: for good, Like I get my discharged and then you know,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: we can do whatever we want. And but I'm going
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: to be relocating to Melbourne. I've got family that in
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Melbourne that I can go and live with. The medical
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: treatment for his daughter was better in Melbourne. I was like, well,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: you know, that's not so far. Said's kind of closer
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: than what Townsville is to Sydney. So I said, we
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: can still make that work. I'm like, my life is Sydney, though,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I said, But first things first, you need to be
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: here and we can go from there. I said, like,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: when you arrive back in Melbourne, let's catch up properly
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: and let's make a real good go of this. I
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: get that it's been rocky, but if it's what you
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: really want, let's make it a good go. And so
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: it was about a couple of months when he finished
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: the deployment and was in Melbourne, and at that point
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, dude, for more time off work. So
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I'll come down on a holiday
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: because again I haven't seen my family in Melbourne for
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: a while. And so I said, okay, well, these are
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: my flight details. I'm like, you can come and pick
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: me up from the airport. This time. I usually get
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: my family to pick me up, but hey, you know, like,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: let's have that romantic movie moment where you get off
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: the plane and you see each other and you just
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: cry and sob and all that stuff. And he was
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: all for already, was like, yep, great idea, send me
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: flight details. So I did and got to Sydney Airport
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: and I messaged him saying yep, I'm here. Flight's delayed,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: and I was pissed off at that. I was like, oh,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: damn flight. So we're messaging the whole time and I'm like, yeah, well,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: you know, the airline's saying that we're going to leave
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: on time now, and I'm like, oh, I'm now having
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: to walk from one end of the airport to the other.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And so I was giving him a running documentary of
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: what was happening, and then eventually got on the plane.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, I've now go to turn my phone off,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: like we're about to take off. I said, I'll see
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: you in an hour and a bit, depending on how
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: long it takes to get off the plane. And I
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: remember we land into Melbourne. I've got my seat belt
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: already undone, and it was like messaging, going, yeah, we've
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: just landed. I'm on the tarmac and he was messaging back, yep, great,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I can see the plane. We pull into the gate
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: and like I jumped up out of a seat for
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the people next to me were like, you might want
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: to steady on, like you've got a while to get
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: off the plane. So I'm like no, I'm like, come on,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: let's just let's get off, like go, and again, like
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: that whole giddiness came in of like okay, I've got
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: my overhead luggage. I'm about to walk off the plane
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: and meet someone that I've invested so much in for
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: two years. And I remember coming out and I'm like
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: looking around again and had his photo and I'm like
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: looking and like couldn't see and I'm like, oh, Melbourne
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Airport's like Sydney Airport, busy all the time, and so
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: many places to look. And I was like, so I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: messaged and I said, okay, I'll meet you out near
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: the coffee stand and there's one like out of the
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: main entry and he was like, yep, sounds good, and
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: so I went there and again I'm standing thinking where
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: is he. I'm like, you know, and like I kept messaging,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: going I can't see you. I'm like, you know, taking
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: photos of my outfit, going this is what I've got on,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: this is where I'm standing, and he was replying with like, oh,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I'm like still stuck in traffic. I'm like, what kind
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: of car are you in? And he was like, oh, why,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: kid's a Holden Commodore. I was like, okay, I'll meet
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: you in the express car park pickup. So got myself
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: over there and again photo saying here I am. I
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: remember standing there for what seemed like hours. I'm like,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't take this long to get into the airport. You've
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: got photos of what I'm wearing where I'm standing, pretty
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: easy to find me. And that point I started trying
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: to call and then the phone's off, so I kept
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: trying and I'm like, okay, I'm like I don't know
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: if it's my phone. So I grabbed a stranger's phone
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: and I think I threw like five bucks at them
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: and said, oh, I need to make a phone call.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: So I tried from a different number off.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Her stomach dropped. This couldn't be happening. Surely something had
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: gone wrong between him being so close he could see
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: the planes landing and now.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: So I gave it half an hour and tried again.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Phone still off. So then I start calling my auntie
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: that lives close and I was like, I'm at the airport.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: My ride hasn't picked me up. Are you cool to
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: come and get me or is it easy just to
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: catch cab? And she was like, oh a tax issues,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Like I'm busy. I'm like okay, no dramas. So I did.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So I went to my aunt's house and I was like, O, well,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: that was one of the other reasons I was going
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: there for anyway, was to see family. Got to my
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Aunti's house and then he calls me and he was
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: like where are you And I'm like, I'm at my
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: aunt's house. I'm like, did you not get all my messages?
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, did you think I was going to stand
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: around till midnight or until the police come and pick
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: me up for the loitering at the airport? I'm like no,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I went to my aunt's and he was like, oh,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: because I'm so sorry I got stuck, and I'm like
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: stuck where I'm like, you told me you were in
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: the line for the airport traffic and he was like oh,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I kept looping around and I'm like right, and I said, oh, look,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I said, it is what it is. I said, look,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: give me your address and I'll come see you tomorrow.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I'll hire a car and I'll come see you. And
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: so we went down that path. So Liam gives me
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: an address that's not quite on the other side of
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Melbourne from where my aunt is, but a fair drive
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I didn't care. And I
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: remember that morning getting up and again working out a
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: nice outfit put on and doing my hair, doing my makeup, going, oh,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: you know, it's today, the day I win the lottery
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: and meet the guy that I've been talking to for
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: so long and invested in, and I'm like, hopefully all
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: this shit will be behind us. And I remember driving
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: out to the address he'd given me, and let's just
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: say that excitement soon crashed down to earth when I
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: got there and it was a vacant block. I was
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: absolutely devastated and I think a lot worse than what
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I was when I had the whole experience in Townsville.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I was just like what the fuck. I'm like, not again,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, let alone give me someone else's address, but
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: giving me an address that is an empty block, I'm like,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: who does that to someone? I'm like, what have I
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: been caught in for the past two years? I was
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: screaming and carrying on and probably looked like an idiot
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: again too so for all the people around, and it
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: was just like, I'm like, how the fuck do I
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: drive back home? And my auntie what's going on? I'm like, well,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I can't. So I remember driving home and my aunt
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: was like, how was your time? I'm like, yeah, it
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: was great. You know. I caught up with friends and
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: just went sightseeing and you know, again more lies to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: family because it was just again it was embarrassment. Like
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I was overcome with so much embarrassment and I guess
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: so much shame in myself that it was like, how
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: could I be so stupid a naive? It was just like,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: how are you going to explain this to people? I
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: sent him one final message and it was basically, go
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: fuck yourself. I'm done and that was it. Like I
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: deleted him from Skype, I deleted Skype altogether, deleted my
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: account on that oasis.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I was done with it, and that was it. She
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: had him blocked, so she didn't even have any way
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: to hear from him. But he didn't try either. The
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: jig was up. Whatever that jig was, so Kylie just
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: had to move on. It was painful, embarrassing and so confusing,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: made all the worse by the fact she hadn't shared
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: what was going on with anyone. So she quietly grieved
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: the relationship that was and tried as best she could
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: to get on with her life. In fact, it wasn't
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: until years later it came up again at all, when
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: she heard of a website called Sauce Bottle.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: It's basically a website that journalists or people that are
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: writing stories or needing something from people go on. They
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: list up the job, so it's kind of like air
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: tasker in a sense, but you're a source. Some are paid,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: some are free. And I remember coming across one that
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: was for catfishing, and I was like, what's this And
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: it was around the same time that MTV brought out
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: the TV show Catfish, which I absolutely loved. I thought, Oh,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: this show's awesome, and then when it hit home that
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: that's what had happened to me, I was like, Oh,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: this is not so cool. I'm like, that's the same
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: shit that happened to me, and I'm like, they've made
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: a TV show out of this. And then I came
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: across that Bottle call out for people to tell their
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: stories about being catfished, and I remember sitting on it
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: for a while and I was like, because with Souce Bottle,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: you're given deadlines that if you want to reach out
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: to those people you can, And I really sat on
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: it and I was just like, is this something that
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I actually want to speak out, put my name and
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: my face to and admit that it had happened to me,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: because like my friend saw me as someone that was
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: very strongheaded, very professional, very driven, like had their shit together,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: and to be putting this out there, it'd be like, well,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: you know, this was my weakness. And next thing I knew,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: I'd responded to it like I didn't even think, and
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, have I got the story for you?
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: So she told it. She wrote down and published her
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: whole story of what happened with Liam the way he
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: treated her, the gas slighting, the lies, the ghosting, and
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: that she still had no idea what had actually happened.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Ruffy was even who he said he was. It was
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: the first time she'd told anyone what had happened, like.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: It was just so many people reach out, going, oh
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: my god, you were so brave, but why didn't you
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: tell us? Because again, no one knew that I'd gone
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: through this, and it was a wave of emotion and
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: it was just like, well, yeah, you know, I should
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: have probably told people, in particular my mum, who was
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: my best friend, and it was just like again I
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: was overcome with guilt and shame. It was just like, well,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to, I said, because you know, one
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: meeting someone online is not seen as normal, and I
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: was worried about how people would perceive me. But a
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: lot of it was like, you're so brave, You're so brave,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, great, you know I'd done that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: But then I thought it would stop.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: But it didn't. The day after her story was published,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: she got a call from a producer from a national
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: TV news show. She didn't know if she wanted to
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: be on TV, but agreed for the producers to try
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of what had happened either way.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: But it was at that point that their investigators had
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: taken it up and I'd given all the information that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I had, and they'd actually found the people that were
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: pretending to be Liam, and they're like, well, Liam is
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: more Liam's and I'm like, what do you mean? And
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: they're like, it was a group of people. There's multiple people,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: There's about four or five of them. It's basically a
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: scam ring. I'm like, what's a scam ring? And he
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: was like where it's multiple people that are in on
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: the thing. And I was like okay, and I'm like, so,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: like Liam, is he an actual person? He goes he
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: is an actual person, but we've also reached out to
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: him and his photos were used by these people. So
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: he's actually in the military. He has a wife and
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: a daughter. Then they said to me that the Liam
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: that you were speaking to was never in Australia. He's
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: actually in Nigeria. And then I was like, oh my god.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that's when it had kind of really
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: slapped me across the face that I was like, Fuck,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I've been scammed. I've not only had money taken off me.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I've had my heart ripped out, my trust, like I
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: was blown to pieces. So I then sort of looked
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: back over the two years that it was and I
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: was like, because even a lot of my friends were saying, oh,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: he's probably not real and all this, and I'm like,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: shut up, Like he is, Like I've heard him on
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: the phone. He's sending gifts, Like scams are all normally
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: one way, like you're always giving, not getting, and I
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: was getting things, and that's why I think I never
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: saw it as a scam. But then when I sat
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: back and really dissected it to the point that I
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: was just like red flag number one, red flag number two,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: and like the voice changing and the camera never being on,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: like that was alarm bell number one. Like that's when
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: I should have been, Like I shouldn't have let it
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: go as easy as I did, just the constant excuses.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, should I have been so forgiving? Probably not,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Like I should have called out the bullshit when it
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: was going off. Even though I was getting things, like
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I was getting the flowers and all that stuff, it
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: was still I'd given up money, I'd given up more importantly,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: my emotions, and it was like, was I desperate? Probably
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: a little bit. I wouldn't say I was overly desperate,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: but I think it was not desperate to have a relationship.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: It was desperate just to have that person that cherished me.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: And it was more something was missing in my life.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: And was I a little naive? Absolutely? I think that
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I'd been through so much already up until that point
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: in life that it was like opening up myself again.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Had I really thought about how was I going to
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: protect myself from going through all this stuff? And I
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: think i'd also not long just come out of being
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: clinically depressed for a good couple of years. So it
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: was like I was finding my feet and this gave
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: me the confidence to be me again. The main question
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I asked myself was like, what the fuck? Who have
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I been talking to? Who's been at the end of
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: the computer? Who was the person I've been talking to?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Like who have I been pouring my heart out to?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: It was like just what the hell? Like why me?
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Was even another one? Like was I picked out of
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: like millions of other profiles and I'm like, oh, let's
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: destroy this person. It was more just what was wrong
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: with me at that point that he didn't want to
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: meet and it was again I think taking it on
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: that I was a problem and it was not him.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: It was all me. So finding out Liam was a
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: real person did validate me in some sense that he
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: was also a victim in this because he's had his
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: photos used and his identity, Like I started questioning myself, well,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: how would he be feeling with all this? How has
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: that affected his family? Because I'm not one hundred percent
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: sure that if he was ever contacted and told and
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: we've never spoken, I've never had the opportunity to actually
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: speak to the real Liam, but it would be interesting
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: just to know from his point like how having your
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: photos used to suck someone else in would have affected him,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: but to see that he has a family, it would
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: have been gut wrenching for him.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Kylie is incredibly strong. She's done a lot of work
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: and a lot of healing, and he's in a really
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: good place now of knowing who she is and understanding
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: that what happened to her wasn't her fault and doesn't
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: define her. She even says in some way she's glad
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: it happened because of what it's taught her.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: One big thing I've taken out of all of this
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: is that you don't need to have someone to define
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: who you are, Like you can be an absolute individual
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: on your own, and you should be and know who
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: you are. And I guess the other thing too, like
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: is I've learned to listen to gut instinct. Like there
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: were times my gut was going off and I was
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: more listening with my heart than my gut. And now
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I've learned that if your gut's telling you something something's
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: not right, it one hundred percent is not right. Like,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: listen to your gut instinct. Like I know people say
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: it's the old debate of your head over your heart
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: and vice versa, it's actually your gut over everything else.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Because that instinct you get when something smells like a rat,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: it is a rat.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: But she'll still never understand why it happened.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Look, I'd love to know it. When we look at catfishing,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: people generally do it for either emotional power over a
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: person or financial I was no millionaire and I'm still
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: not a millionaire, so they were never going to get
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: large sums of money out of me. But I think
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: it was more just that emotional power to control someone
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like it's just really dog act to
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: do to someone. I jumped back into the dating world
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: again because I was like, I'm not going to let
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: this define me. But again, it did take a good
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: couple of years to sort of rebuild myself because I
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: was just like, I'm not going through that shit again.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: And I didn't even get back on online dating for
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I think it was a good five ten years, like
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: i'd left it for a while, like it's something I've
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: kind of only just dabbled back in in the last
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: couple of years because I threw myself into work, like
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: I've changed jobs and industries, I've studied, I've graduated UNI,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I've had reallylationships. I've grown a lot currently not in one,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't upset me anymore. It's like, well, you know,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I've got a lot going on in life that dating's
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: the least of my worries at the moment. So am
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I open to it in the future. Absolutely, But at
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: least now I know if I go back onto those
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: online apps, it's a matter of I know what to
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: look out for. I have had those giddy feelings again,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: and it was good to have them and know that
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I still had them. Within me because for so long
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I had put that wall back up. I've now been
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: able to sort of master that mindset of breaking down
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: things and being careful and really analyzing things before I
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: take that jump. But definitely had those feelings and would
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: love to have them at some point again.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: And she wants to keep working to break down the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: stigma about being scammed and help stop it from happening
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: to them.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Look, the reasons that scammers do these kind of things,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: there's such a wide range of reasons. I mean, if
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: they're people that know the person that they're going to catfish,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: it'd be because you don't like a kid at school,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: or you don't like someone you work with, or you're
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: jealous or whatever. It's still no reason to pretend that
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: you're someone that you're not because, like, let's face it,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: in a legal world, that's fraud, So why can't you
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: be charged with fraud like it's committing an offense. But
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: there was a young girl that unfortunately took her life
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: because of catfishing. This poor girl was only sixteen. And
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: the thing that infuriates me is like if I was
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: to drive my car out and accidentally hit someone and
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: they die, I get done for manslaughter, yet that poor
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: girl has taken her life because of someone's actions and
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: there was kind of no consequences. So trying to advocate
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: to make it law and to make it legal that
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: there are some kind of repercussions for what this can
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: do to people is now something that I'm massively a
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: supporter of. I've been introduced to sites like social Catfish
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: where you can actually drag and drop people's images in
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: and it will tell you if they're on any dating
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: sites and multiple dating sites, or if they're even being
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: flagged on scam sites. And I mean now that online
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: dating's come back into a full force of its way
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: to meet people with the likes of Bumble and Hinge,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: it's a good time to remind people that hey, if
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: you're not certain, dump those photos in. But one thing
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I have noticed with the new dating apps is they
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: have self verification in there now, So you've now actually
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: got to take a selfie of yourself in the app
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: and it verifies it against your profile images and if
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: it's not you, then I think they block the profile.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: So online and dating, it's good to have seen that
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: it's advanced with technology as well and doing its bit
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: to try and stop these things from happening even further,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: there's been lots of good to come out of it
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: as well as bad. I think that's my life's purpose
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: is to really help people be aware, to be a
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: better version of themselves, and to just support other people
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: out there that have gone through this and to know
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: that while it's not okay to go through it's okay
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: to actually be upfront and talk about it. Because that's
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: one thing I didn't do is like, as I said,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: my mum My Network, my close friends knew nothing about
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: it until I had appeared on TV, and it was
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: more the fact that not being afraid to speak up.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: And I think though it's mainly just to really support
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: other people that are going through it, because I say
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: to people, we go through things in life and we
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: wonder why me, and I'm like, because I'm strong. I
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: think it's because I was strong enough to deal with it,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Whereas if it had been anyone else, they probably wouldn't
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: have been as strong and probably they wouldn't be sitting
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: here sharing their story.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Everyone has an ex is a Minti Media production and
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: proudly part of the mum of MEA network is written
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: and narrated by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: If you have a story you'd like to share, email
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: podcast at momamea dot com dot au. You can support
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: us by following the show in your favorite podcast app
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and leaving a five star review. We'll see you for
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: the next episode.