Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / True Romance (1993) - Tony Scott | Houselights #165

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True Romance (1993) - Tony Scott | Houselights #165 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the ned Palty. Welcome back to the House of Scott. The
0:23
latest entry in the House lights saga that goes on exploring the work of directors
0:27
through all sorts of various combinations that we dream up and that entertain us.
0:33
We sure hope they entertain you. Join us in this House of Scott.
0:37
I am John Mills, and I am joined by my fellow. I mean,
0:43
let's just go brass tacks here. I guess this is another cast of
0:46
scumbags that we're exploring in a Tony Scott film. So with my fellow degenerates
0:52
Tristan Raddell and Darren Moser, gentlemen, I can't tell you how excited I
0:57
am to talk about nineteen ninety three's True rome with the two of you.
1:00
I am excited about what's coming in this discussion. I don't know what to
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anticipate. Much like the audiences that walked in to see True Romance back in
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nineteen ninety three, I really want to talk about one thing because this is
1:15
my first time seeing it from beginning to end, and like this was one
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of those movies that I saw just chunks of throughout time, like since ninety
1:26
three, Like I just kept seeing chunks of it, whether it was on
1:29
TV, at a friend's house, whatever, So like I felt like I
1:33
had seen the whole movie, but just completely out of order. So it
1:36
was interesting seeing this for the first time, from beginning to end. And
1:42
I really want to know the differences between theatrical and the director's cut, because
1:47
whenever, because this is a director's based show, we always watch the director's
1:51
cut, and that's why we watched in preparation for this week. So,
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John, do you know a lot about the theatrical cut and the differences.
1:57
The primary differences between the director's cut quote unquote and the theatrical cut are basically
2:02
that they had to make edits to get the R rating because there were certain
2:06
things that were deemed too intense for audiences back then. I know that there
2:14
is one scene in specific that was trimmed in the theatrical version that is a
2:19
little bit more brutal in the director's cut. I believe that there is a
2:23
change as to who shoots one of the officers in the final gunfight. Yeah,
2:30
it wasn't Patria Patricia kut right, Like, that wasn't her characters?
2:34
Yeah, yeah, So who shoots the officer is different in the theatrical versus
2:38
the director's cut and the I mean, those are the primary differences. I
2:45
know that there are still lost scenes in this movie, and that's the endless
2:51
discussion that we'll get to, you know about the in this director's podcast is
2:55
whether some of those cut scenes or alternate takes might have enhanced detracted from what
3:00
we got here. Now, Darren, I know that you were a huge
3:06
Tarantino fan by the time nineteen ninety three ye rolled around, but you didn't
3:08
get to true romance at the time, So why did it take you so
3:13
long to get there? But you know what, honestly, I want to
3:15
ask a different question. You know, we're always like, oh, when's
3:16
the first time you started a movie and everything, and we know that I'm
3:19
the old man and I saw this in the movie theater because I was cool,
3:23
and Darren, I got to ask, actually, what was even though
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I know this is a Tony Scott, you know House of Scott thing,
3:31
what was your first Tarantino movie that you ever encountered? Oh? Man,
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so I Tarantino's not quite my jam. So it might have been kill Bill.
3:43
And I've seen, you know, clips from pulp fiction and all that
3:46
stuff, but like a whole movie through. I think it was that when
3:50
I actually did with Kill Bill. I don't know why, because I was
3:53
filmed nerd is. I didn't see part one in theaters. Waited too like
4:00
the DVD came out like the week before Part two came out, and timed
4:05
it so I could watch part one, end it, drive to the theater,
4:11
and watch part two on the day that it came out, because there
4:15
some reason I felt I needed to do that. That's a smart way to
4:17
do that. Put a pin in that we're gonna come back to that.
4:19
Because Tristan, I know that you saw Tarantino before Kill Bill was not your
4:25
first Tarantino film. Correct, no reservoir ducks, trust me. I'm building
4:30
to a point here. When you come in and you see true Romance,
4:32
which you say, this is the first time you've watched it, you know,
4:34
all the way through right end of this film, do you feel that
4:39
you have watched a Tony Scott movie or do you feel that you have watched
4:42
a Quentin Tarantino movie. This is gonna be a cop out, but I
4:46
feel like I watched a Tony Scott film that's not directing. No no,
4:50
you can't fish. I feel like Tony Scott directed a Quentin Tarantino script basically,
4:58
that's that's what it feels like that. But it is what happened though,
5:01
right, yeah, it is, it is what happened. I'm missing
5:04
something. But the reason I was so excited with the way you were phrasing
5:08
it is there's another Quentin Tarantino script that was directed by Oliver Stone called Natural
5:13
Born Killers. Tarantino hates that movie because he feels that that Stone was just
5:17
trying to copy him in a lot of ways, and he also made certain
5:23
artistic choices that Tarantino didn't like. What happened to a script? You've talked
5:27
about that where you know what torture it must be to be a screenwriter and
5:30
see what happens to what you've written. Tarantino loves true romance because, in
5:35
his words, Tony Scott made a Tony Scott movie out of his script.
5:39
And so I think that's a I think that's a spot on read how that
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bears out? You know, who knows? But but darrenl and oh,
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actually not, I kind of want to branch off of what you were saying,
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is that even with the I think that speaks volumes to how Tarantino feels
5:56
about Tony Scott and his respect for Tony Scott because in the original script,
6:00
both characters die, which you know, I you know, the ending was
6:04
ruined for me, Like I knew, I knew the ending was coming.
6:09
But as I was watching this, you know, like part of me was
6:11
kind of like, I feel like they kind of should have. I feel
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like they should have they should have died. I felt like it was too
6:16
you know, neatly, neatly wrapped up, and it felt very you know,
6:21
Hollywood producer notes to me. But then I read a quote from Tarantino
6:27
saying that he confronted Tony Scott saying, why do you want to change the
6:30
ending? You're making it all Hollywood, you know, like you're making it
6:32
You're you're making it all perfect and lovey dovey and you know, like a
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happy ending. That's not you. And Tony Scott replied, It's like,
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no one's pressuring me to do this. I'm not trying to hollywoodize it.
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I fell in love with these characters and I just don't want to see them
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die. And Tony Scott was able to convince Tarantino that this was the right
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ending, and Tarantino said, I will, I would do anything that Tony
6:57
Scott asked me to do. And he says, this was the Tony Scott
7:00
ending for a Tony Scott film. Is how he phrased it is that beautiful
7:05
and the thing is to something that you had nestled in there. Tarantino,
7:10
notoriously cantankerous and opinionated. That is such a sign of respect from him to
7:16
say, Okay, somebody convinced me that I wasn't absolutely correct, But Darren,
7:21
I'm coming back to you. You know I told you to put a
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pin in that with Kill Bill. You watch Kill Bill Volume one and two?
7:29
Do you see Tony Scott same sort of question? Do you see this
7:33
as a Tarantino? Like? Is this unmistakably Tarantino even though it's a Tony
7:39
Scott film visually and editorially? I would say yes, I got the Tarantino
7:44
vibes for sure. And I think a lot of that is in the characters,
7:48
the writing. There's a lot of you know, it's this weird mesh
7:55
of scenes that feel almost ad lived, but then you know, like it
7:59
also fits perfectly with everything else. I also felt a great sense of fear
8:05
for pretty much every character. Like once we had the interrogation scene with Christopher
8:13
Walkin, I'm like, nobody's safe. Nobody is safe in this movie.
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And while but even though I also did pick up on the very end,
8:24
I'm like, I think they're both going to be alive, partially because of
8:28
the very very beginning with the voice over setup of like I'm telling you a
8:33
romance story, I'm like, well, how could we tell the story if
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if at least she doesn't survive, because yeah, when you know, I'm
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kind of you know, sometimes when I'll watch movies for the first time,
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I'll kind of skim wikipedia, but I'll skim it after I've gotten through that
8:50
part because I don't want to like ruin it for me. But I'm,
8:54
you know, always curious. And when Tony soprano, I mean, you
9:01
know, yeah, but when when he's going out, I'm like, maybe
9:03
she dies right here because dear lord, like, I mean, he makes
9:07
one mistake and that's what kills him. But yeah, I felt major Tarantino
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vibes, and I don't Again, it's hard to quantify. Is it the
9:20
brutality aspect, is it the way the characters are written. Is it the
9:26
you know, sex, drugs and Hollywood and all that stuff. You know,
9:28
it just it just felt like it was I was not surprised. Well,
9:33
there is unmistakably a brutal edge to this movie, and you know,
9:39
Tristan, I'll kick it over to you first, because I mean, I
9:41
have my own opinions and I'm sort of like it would be I'm going to
9:45
be completely transparent here. It would be way too easy for me to be
9:48
a bore on this discussion, and so I'm working very hard, very assiduously
9:54
to make sure that I don't become a bore. And when I have inevitably
10:00
hit some point where I go on a tear about a scene, it will
10:05
inevitably come through. But Tristan, with the brutality here, being familiar with
10:09
the works of Tarantino, how do you feel Tony Scott's style handled the brutality.
10:18
Do you think that Tony Scott made it more difficult to watch? Do
10:22
you think he gave it a more realistic edge, a more energetic edge,
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Because Tarantino has very stylized violence. It may be gory as hell, but
10:30
in Hateful Eight, when a guy's head explodes there's that sort of nervous laughter
10:35
thing that happens where you're like, oh, that's just that's ridiculous. You're
10:37
answering for me, John, Sorry, sorry, don't mean to. Didn't
10:41
mean to. Didn't mean to. But I mean, you know, expound
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on that though, like, what do you think Tony Scott brought to the
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violence here? Think I think you started to hit on it. That's why
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I wanted to stop you, because you were. I think you're right.
10:54
I think this is one thing that we have that's been constant thread through this
11:01
entire house of Scott, House of Tony Scott has been He has an undeniable
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look and feel to his movies. He has a style that cannot be put
11:13
down and cannot be squashed even by a powerhouse. That is Quentin Tarantino's writing
11:18
style. And I think I do think Scott made it much more realistic.
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Like when you when you think about the scene with Patricia Arquette and James Gandolfini,
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that is that is frigging hard to watch. That is rough. That
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is a rough scene. And I'm thinking about, you know, like a
11:41
Tarantino something, something that's analogous to a Tarantino directed film. It would be
11:46
rough, but at the same time, you would know it's gonna work out,
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you know, like it'll be okay, Like it'll either like they'll it'll
11:56
come back. It'll be cartoony, you know, like or like she'll take
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the the corkscrew to his neck and then all of a sudden, like five
12:03
gallons of blood will start spurting out, and then we'll have this The audience
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will have a release, you know, we will be like, oh,
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it's okay, Like I just saw something graphic, but it's Tarantino graphic,
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and so I can kind of step back a little bit, like I can
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be separated from it. Scott doesn't give you that that option. Scott doesn't
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give you the leisure of laying back in your your seat and going it's all
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gonna be okay, it's gonna be turnout. It's going to turn out all
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right. Even though we know that she's gonna make it out, we have
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no idea how she's gonna make it out or if she's gonna be unscathed.
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And so Scott makes you, like pushes you right up to the edge and
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puts your makes you bury your face in it. Well, Tarantino would probably
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give you a little few more wides and so you can kind of soak in
12:50
the scene and and again another form of separation, like when what Scott gives
12:56
you mediums and close ups and and perpetual sunset once again. And yeah,
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so that's my answer. I think. I think Tony Scott gives a Tarantino
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script of violence, but he does it in his own way, which was
13:13
refreshing, isn't the right right word. It was nice to see that.
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I mean, obviously, this is very early on in his career, like
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this is the beginning, like practically the beginning of Tarantino's career, and he's
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not the powerhouse that he is today. But it's nice to see that Scott
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can take a script from someone who's argued one of the most successful creatively filmmakers
13:37
and still make it his own. Now, Darren, I know that you
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said earlier that Tarantino is not quite your cup of tea, and Tristan I
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think just put you know, put a cherry on top of the Sunday and
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said, yeah, Scott doesn't let you up off the mat in terms of
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the violence that you have to look at that scene with Patricia Arquette is incredibly
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difficult. Even the scene where Drexel is having the fight with Clarence, that
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is a tough thing to watch because there's a lot of awful going on in
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that moment. I know it's not your cup of tea, But did it
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work for you? The way that Scott put it together? Even though it
14:13
was uncomfortable? Was it still? I was riveted. I was riveted every
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time. I mean, I think back to Dennis Hopper, you know,
14:20
pop quiz You're gonna die. Uh. But honestly, I was glad when
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he was shot because I was so worried. I'm like, how far is
14:30
this gonna go? Like this this guy is nuts, and and you can
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see his dad, you know, Clifford realizing I'm I'm dead, Like as
14:41
soon as I walked in this room, I am am dead. So the
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choices do I hang out, hang on to not reveal things that will hurt
14:50
my son, and and that's the decision he's having to make. And so
14:54
you know, he cuts the inside of his hand and you're just like ooh,
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oh, okay, okay, it's gonna be that kind of a scene.
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And then I'm like I was kind of like, Lord, please just
15:03
have him be shot because I'm like, this is the kind of guy who
15:07
cuts ears off. This is the kind of guy who makes it messy and
15:11
slow, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm ready for that.
15:15
And then you know, fortunately he just Chris walk and shoot him the head
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like twice. But uh yeah, fortunately, yeah, fortune actually worked out.
15:22
It worked out. No, no, but like, but that's a
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great scene. I mean that's a well written scene, like by two powerhouse
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actors that are conveying a ton like again, they're laughing at the end,
15:35
and you're just like, oh man, this is worse that he's laughing and
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he's so jovial about it. Like this guy so many times, like you
15:45
get a villain like that, and that's the only scene we see him in,
15:48
like he's he doesn't he doesn't go to the hotel for the final standoff.
15:52
But man, you know who the boss is and you know not to
15:56
mess with this guy, like he is dangerous. And it made me think
16:00
of pulp fiction where you know, like you know, like you know that
16:04
Tarantino was making, like making pulp fiction and he's like, okay, I
16:08
have one scene wearing one powerhouse of an actor who could who's basically just carrying
16:15
the conversation himself and he's not in any other rest of the movie. Who
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could I get to do this? You know? It's I think that there's
16:26
a signature to Tony Scott in that scene between the two of them, and
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it's that there is to get back to a point that you made Tristan Tarantino
16:38
would step back and let you be more shocked maybe by the language, or
16:44
have more of that sort of you know, naughty moment of seeing both of
16:48
them. But Scott's right up in there and letting you feel you know,
16:53
I'd be curious if you agree with my read like he gives you that declaration
16:59
with the way that you're in it, that you're uncomfortably sitting in there.
17:03
That the moment that Dennis Hopper asks for that Chesterfield, you know, he's
17:07
about to say something that is so caustic that he is basically he's gonna do
17:12
everything he can to give just yeah, he's given the middle finger, and
17:18
that's his last cigarette, and he knows that's his last cigarette, and so
17:21
he like, do you see Scott in that scene? Basically is what I'm
17:25
saying, that that uncomfortable clausterphobia there. It's it's funny that you call it
17:30
uncomfortable clusterphobia, because as I was watching it, I was actually very critical
17:37
of the cinematography really of that scene particularly really and the reason why because it
17:42
was it was well acted, it was well cut. But to me,
17:48
I was I was, I really wish that they didn't shoot it in a
17:52
trailer, in a mobile home, because there's only so much you can do
17:56
in that kind of a space. There's only so many angles that you can
18:00
get, and to me, it was such a boring shoot. It was
18:04
really one shot, two shot, one shot, two shot, one shot,
18:07
two shot. It's just over and over and over again, like they
18:11
didn't explore the space, they didn't explore the characters that much, and it
18:15
felt like a TV scene cinematography wise, and hm, no, no,
18:25
what were we gonna say? Well, it struck me when you're talking about
18:27
like what you can do with a mobile home or a trailer, and it
18:32
made me think of in the beginning of Durastic Park when John Hammond comes in
18:37
and he's pitching Jurassic Park to Ellie and and Alan. That actually feels like
18:44
you're in a room and you're not the third one. Gosh, oh sorry,
18:51
but no, Like that actually feels like you're in a small space.
18:52
But I would say it's the opposite, like they're using that space. He's
18:56
moving around the kitchen, he's getting reverse shots. Yeah, this did feel
19:00
very much like I was trying to remember there was also seven in the trailer,
19:06
right, but you wouldn't even know it, Like there's so much of
19:10
this, Like you said one to two back and forth, back and forth.
19:12
I'm sure there were a two shot, but I only remember the one
19:15
shots of walking and the single apart. See. The thing is, I
19:22
don't agree with that because I thought that, like I get what you're saying,
19:26
but I think that the way that it was lit and the way that
19:29
it was cut like made it made it work. No, if I were
19:33
to be how you, I like how you phrased it. Like listening to
19:36
you talk about it kind of made me think about it differently, Like when
19:38
you said like, oh it was claustophobic, I was like, okay,
19:42
cool, Like I can get behind that. Like while I was watching it,
19:45
that's what I was thinking. But I really like your reasoning. If
19:48
I were to drill in on a scene that I think was the shooting of
19:53
it was half hazard or I felt was halp Hazard. Was the scene where
19:59
we're in reduced to Drexel where he does the double cross and shoots future Tarantino
20:04
mainstay Sam Jackson. Uh, you know, in the drug deal gone wrong
20:10
or gone right? I guess what what movie did it? Did Sam Jackson
20:14
just die almost immediately like he was shot in his in his room, kind
20:18
of like this one. He was real skinny, he was really young.
20:22
What movie am I thinking? I don't know, just kidding. I'll come
20:26
back to it. I'm sorry, I'll come back to it. I did.
20:29
I really didn't mean to cut you off. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
20:30
No that no, it's it's no problem. But like that would be
20:33
a scene where as much as I might love other moments in this film,
20:37
that's always a scene that I'm sort of like, Okay, let's just get
20:40
through this, because that's the one that I think visually is pretty boring.
20:45
Okay, you have you're all lost, You're the audience is completely lost on
20:48
the geography of the room because you don't you can't really tell what's going on
20:52
because of the lights. Everything's red neon and so you can't tell where they
20:56
are. And then like, because he does inner cuts of the shotgun and
21:00
of the guns and everything like that, you sometimes he crosses the one eighty
21:03
line a lot because they're throwing each other around. And also when we have
21:07
that tracking shot into the space, you see these women and they're dancing to
21:11
no one. Oh god, no, I actually I wasn't even I wasn't
21:15
talking about the Drexel fight. I was talking about Sammy Jackson. You're right,
21:19
I'm talking about early. I skipped, I skipped ahead. That's what
21:22
I felt, the same I feel fight. I was like, I have
21:26
no idea the topography of this room and there is just junk everywhere, and
21:32
I could I mean, I know there's a lamp and he aims at his
21:33
face. That's my anchor of where we are in the room. And that
21:37
was it. Now I didn't even realize that was Gary oldman, Like I
21:41
know that on the credit set. I'm like, where was Gary Old?
21:44
But I looked it up, but I'm like, Drexer, look up the
21:47
picture. Oh my gosh. And that's that's the thing, is I remember.
21:52
I don't even know if this is sited on Wikipedia or anything like that,
21:55
but apparently it was Tony Scott who sold Gary Oldman on the idea of
21:59
playing the role by telling him he could go real big with it. Because
22:04
you got to keep in mind, this is Gary Oldman still in the you
22:07
know, he's just played the Vlad right like, he's still doing this sort
22:12
of like wild stuff. And I remember it was Premiere magazine or some other
22:18
defunct publication like that, where maybe I'm misremembering, but the way I remember
22:23
it being conveyed was that Oldman didn't really want to do it, and it
22:26
was Tony Scott that leaned on him and was like, no, no,
22:30
no, trust me, you're gonna have a lot of fun with this.
22:32
Let me explain this character to you. So, I mean, I can
22:36
tell you from having gone through the time period that with gen xers to this
22:41
day, there is the the debate as to whether Dracula or Drexel is the
22:51
more fun Gary Oldman performance, like over the top Gary Oldman performance to watch
22:55
because both involve a fair amount of makeup, a crazy accent, and Gary
23:00
old Men just like going nuts with it. So Garry Oldman says that this
23:03
is his favorite over Dracula. I I I have a sentimental preference for Drexel,
23:11
just because I think he's having more fun here doing this, Like I
23:15
get more of a sense. But you know, Darren, and my off
23:18
base is, do you get a sense of an actor having a good like
23:22
enjoying the chance to express his craft here Again, looking at parallels, it
23:29
makes me think of Tom Cruise in like Tropic Thunder, like again a really
23:34
just out of the box role that they're just chew in the scenery. And
23:41
yeah, I think again the chameleon that he is. Like I was like,
23:47
I don't know, I didn't recognize him obviously, but yeah, he's
23:52
And it's funny because it's the secondary villain, like it's it's that kicks off
23:57
the first act, but then it's done and done, like he doesn't come
24:02
back. It's it kicks off the inciting incident. But yeah, I think
24:06
you definitely need it. And and Oldman plays it well where because at the
24:11
beginning you're like, we're trying to size up this guy and what's gonna happen,
24:15
just as much as as Clearance is. And so at the kind of
24:21
the very beginning, he's like, you know, oh, hey, just
24:25
get a drink and and you're like, oh, maybe this is gonna work
24:27
out, and they're like, no, this is going this is gonna go
24:30
very, very bad for everybody in this room. Well, I think that
24:33
the scene effectively and testing I know you you launched into uh, you know,
24:38
the criticism of the way the fight is blocked after their conversation and everything,
24:45
totally valid criticism. But do you think that Tony Scott gets the appropriate
24:49
amount of mileage of sort of mocking an action movie beat here where which Drexel
24:57
calls out himself, He's like, oh, we got Charlie Bronson right here,
25:00
you know, of Clarence being in over his head and not understanding how
25:04
in over his head he is in this moment. Do you think Tony Scott
25:10
pre fight when they're doing this, do you think that's at least conveyed well
25:14
with the way it's shot and edited. Yeah, yeah, I think pre
25:18
fight absolutely. Like I really enjoyed that exchange between Drexel and Clarence. I
25:22
thought it was well done. And of course, you know, like Gary
25:26
Oldman carries the scene and really sells that he can read him up and down
25:30
where you know, you'd think that this guy is just a thug or he's
25:36
just a brutal moron, but he clearly isn't with the way that he like
25:41
he He's gone as far as he can in this underworld for that reason,
25:45
because he can apparely apparently can read people and size them up, and he
25:51
has legitimate reasons as to why he's thinking these things, and so that was
25:56
nice to see. But he also has muscle, you know, you know
26:00
them, like he's still he's still a skinny white guy who thinks he's black,
26:03
and it's still a pimp, and so he has muscle. And yeah,
26:08
so I think I think that was well edited. I think that was
26:12
that really. I don't want to say saved the scene, because I don't
26:15
think it was like a it was like a horrible scene or anything like that.
26:18
I just think the you know, the the geography of the room and
26:22
the editing of the fight was a little off, that's all. But I
26:26
think that was it was. It was great Scott tension building where you know,
26:33
like when he's throwing the lamp at him back and forth, and that's
26:36
going back and forth, Like Scott can take just a lamp swing and put
26:41
you on the edge of your seat and make you uncomfortable, and I think
26:44
that's one sign of a great directors that and we've seen him do it time
26:48
and time and again in previous movies, where he's able to interject something just
26:52
to build up the anxiety, build up the tension well. And and in
26:56
a way that scene is important and because it almost didn't sell me on it,
27:03
because if you don't, if you don't accept that scene, then you're
27:10
kind of stacked against the protagonists because of his stupidity, because he literally sets
27:15
up his own like this whole chain of events, like he didn't because I'm
27:19
thinking, you didn't have to go there. You guys could have just disappeared
27:23
off into the sunset and been happy and like had none of the story.
27:29
But it was once he's like, hey, I know where you live.
27:33
I'm going to go get her, Like he obviously was not going to leave
27:37
them alone, was not going to just disappear into the background. And then
27:41
the couple that with her reaction of being romantic, which you know, but
27:48
just that just sells on their love. But those two things couple did sell
27:52
me on it. But there was a moment in the middle where I'm like,
27:53
and he's forgetting his id and it's it was teetering on, you know,
27:59
the protagonists just making dumb choices. And I don't want my protagonists to
28:04
be dumb. I want bad things can happen to them. But you know,
28:08
he was smart enough to bring a gun, he was smart enough to
28:11
you know, kind of save that till the last moment and good things like
28:15
that. But I was on the fence for a moment, like kind of
28:18
just being stacked against him from the beginning. Well, and here here's a
28:22
question. You know that I'll throw to uterist And do you think that watching
28:26
this, it's it that the films should have had more time spent with Clarence's
28:34
delusional hallucination of Elvis Presley counseling him. Do you think that there's a mentor?
28:42
Yeah, oh yes, quote unquote the mentor. So Val Kilmer goes,
28:47
you know, we have Gary Oldmen playing Dracula and then playing Drexel,
28:51
and then we have Val Kilmer playing Jim Morrison to playing the mentor. Do
28:56
you think that the film could have benefited from teasing them at a little bit
29:00
more letting the audience like, do you think that it's too easy for people
29:03
to overlook that Clarence is not entirely stable, as evidenced by his hallucinations.
29:10
I think we needed one more scene with with with fell Kilmer, just one,
29:15
just one really would have I think nailed it because I really liked the
29:21
introduction. I thought the introduction was great, and then by this you forget
29:26
about him. By the time he pops up in the end, You're like,
29:30
oh, right, okay, this is all right, that's right.
29:33
He's delusional or is he delusional? Is he just imagining things or is he
29:37
actually seeing these things? And so if I feel like if we if we
29:41
saw him one more time in the middle somewhere in the second act, that
29:45
that might help sell that a little bit more, And because I think Kilmer
29:48
did a fantastic job, and also at the end it felt so odd to
29:53
have him show up there because I'm trying to think, like, Okay,
29:56
is that the reason why he didn't hear all the all the guns cocking and
30:00
the policeman screaming and the guy's yelling back and forth, because like that's going
30:06
on for a while, and then Clarence comes out like, oh it's going
30:10
up. Yeah, Well, I mean it's a very large suite in Hollywood
30:15
obviously owned by a producer, and this is I would say this is as
30:18
good as segue as any. When we were talking about The Last Boy Scout,
30:23
there was a hint dropped Darren that this producer is inspired by Tony Scott's
30:30
interactions with Joel Silver on The Last Boy Scout. I gotta ask, you
30:37
know, do you think that this producer role is as much of a scene
30:44
stealer as I do? Or you know, did it land with you?
30:47
Was it the necessary comic relief over the top character or do you think that
30:51
this is sort of a you know, a throwaway mistake sort of character,
30:56
like he's just there. No, I mean, I'm kind of biased because
31:00
I love Saul Rubinic. I loved him in The Most Toys and TG.
31:06
I mean I loved him in Warehouse thirteen. He just he's a great,
31:11
great actor, and this is great. Seeum kind of in his prime right
31:14
here, and he was a you know, he's a villain. He's obviously
31:18
an antagonist towards our hero, but he's smart. Like I loved his back
31:23
and forth. I love the fact that he's not just letting Clarence get away
31:27
with you know, he's asking the right question. He says, like,
31:30
well, who gave this to you? Like why did they think you could
31:33
move it? And Clarence does bs him, but it's but it is a
31:37
give and take, like Clarence has to deliver a satisfactory answer. So I
31:42
love that exchange. And you know, of course we can't just have that
31:45
exchange going on. We have to also have the cops be you know,
31:49
like they're watching a soap opera in the other room and like the you know,
31:53
the mob's coming in and everything's going crazy. But no, I loved
31:57
him. I think he was a great part. And I I mean,
32:02
maybe I could I see, I definitely see what you're saying about. Maybe
32:06
you could be related or inspired by a real person or a real interaction.
32:10
But I would almost say that was I think it was a great character,
32:15
So I would say that's not a bad thing. I would say that would
32:16
almost be a badge of honor, because you know, although when is this
32:23
movie meant to take place? Is it meant to be like present day ninety
32:30
three? Because I got kind of more eighties vibes, I don't know,
32:36
like that maybe a little bit earlier than it was. I always took it
32:40
as just it's happening in whatever time it was happening. You know, whatever
32:45
year it came out was the year it was happening. But that's a very
32:47
interesting question because you know, during our discussion about The Last Boy Scout,
32:52
I think I was the one that said, this feels like somebody went back
32:54
in time to nineteen sixty seven and brought a film crew back, gave the
32:59
modern stuff, and then sent them back in time. Tristan, do you
33:01
think that Tony Scott's Vice movie it has that vibe? But but Tristan,
33:07
do you think that Tony Scott winds up being the correct director because he had
33:10
done Beverly Hills Cop two in The Last Boy Scout that made him better suited
33:15
to direct a movie like True Romance because he knew the vibe that Tarantino was
33:20
infusing this with. I think it was funny that it also took place in
33:23
Detroit. Like I kind of giggled when I found out that they were in
33:27
Detroit, and I was just like, Ah, that's funny. They like
33:30
Eddie Murphy's just walking around in the background. Uh No, I I the
33:36
scene of Clifford talking to his cop buddy Axel Foley you know, it just
33:40
brings it all together. I guess Bridge too far. I agree, but
33:45
no, I don't. I think I think I think Tony Scott was the
33:49
right director for this. I don't know if it was. I mean,
33:52
you are the director that you are because of the previous films that you've done,
33:55
so it's it's hard to divorce yourself from your past because that's what it
34:00
gets you noticed by producers and studios and companies and other people. And yeah,
34:04
absolutely, I think there's a reason why you know, Tony Scott was
34:07
selected for this or was approached for this, and well, yeah, but
34:12
I mean my question is, do you think that this is Tony Scott?
34:15
He hits the moments that he does in this because he looks at this script
34:21
and says, oh, I've done this, sort like of directors that we've
34:25
even looked at, or directors that are in your brain. Do you think
34:29
he was specially suited to something like this because we know that Tarantino everything he
34:32
writes is basically, you know, an homage to everything he grew up watching,
34:37
and obviously he's watching the movies that Tony Scott was directing as he's growing
34:40
up. Sort of thing. Like, is this something where you look at
34:44
this and you're like, oh, yeah, this had to be done by
34:45
the director of Beverly Hills Cop too, because he knows how to do this
34:49
this gun sequence at the end, or he knows how to direct these certain
34:52
types of characters, because you know, Lee Donowitz is an over the top
34:58
sort of character in the same way, but in the same vein maybe as
35:04
the police chief in Beverly Hills Cop two, right where he's just how believable
35:10
is he? Like? I find donal Witz more believable? Am I making
35:14
any sense in where I'm going with this question? I love her questions.
35:19
John, You ask a simple premise at the beginning, and then you continue
35:23
to answer it for a couple of minutes. I don't know, man,
35:28
I don't know. Hey, listen, listen, Jerk Weed. I told
35:31
you there were gonna be moments where I was gonna go on a tear,
35:34
and that's what I wound up doing, because I, you know, total
35:38
showing all of my cards here. I have a tremendous affection for this film,
35:43
and I have a tremendous love for it that goes back to nineteen ninety
35:46
three when I had a huge argument with the legendary Joey who had a lot
35:52
of issues with this film and really didn't care for it, And it was
35:58
one of those things where it was a movie the two of us never saw.
36:00
Ida I on Darren. One of the things that Joey and I never
36:02
saw eya Ion was the music done by Hans Zimmer. I gotta ask you,
36:10
is You're so cool? The title track from True Romance one of the
36:15
greatest things ever laid down on a film soundtrack? Or is it not?
36:19
Is that the like weird instrumental piece that will creep in? Dude, do
36:23
do do? Do? Do? Do? Does that one really weird?
36:30
Like? I think what other movies have had that vibe? Like, because
36:35
it definitely had a vibe. Oh what it was? It like just I
36:38
don't know, like movies with kids in them where the kids like stand up
36:43
for what he believes in, Like that's the kind of movie. Or oh
36:45
what it made me think of was a houselights movie that we did. The
36:50
one was Sean Connery in the Jungle. Oh, Medicine Man, Medicine Man.
36:57
It would show up in Medicine Man, like they're in the middle,
37:00
like the pan flutes going and he's researching like I would. I would not
37:05
be surprised if that. So yeah, that one again not necessarily out of
37:09
place, but a really weird take, because yeah, it was. It
37:15
was out of left field. Every time it's like, oh, this movesic
37:17
pack. Here we go, La la la, here we go. Yeah,
37:22
he must really like that, just that pan flute. So yeah,
37:25
I can say I didn't hate it, but it was weird. It was
37:30
really weird. It is. It can be a little off pitting, off
37:35
putting for some Tristan, are you in camp Darren about the track? You
37:39
are so cool? No, it didn't bother me. I thought it was.
37:44
I thought it was charming. I thought I thought it was unique enough
37:47
that it's it's the kind of thing that you don't normally hear as a motif
37:52
for a theme for a couple in a kind of a Bonnie and a Clyde
37:55
type situation with amped up, ramped up violence. So I thought I thought
38:01
it was unique enough to be Okay, I totally get what Darren saying,
38:07
and the medicine men made me want to wretch, But well, no,
38:14
it was weird, but it was my kind of weird. I liked it.
38:15
What's interesting is that there's actually something that that I tied to in my
38:21
brain where there's a terrible you can only like it ironically Arnold Schwarzenegger action movie
38:27
called Commando where James Horner for some reason fell in love with it. But
38:32
do you love the music that James Warner did for it? Do you do
38:37
you really? Okay, maybe maybe not the music, but I feel that
38:40
Hans zimmer takes takes that and says, you know what, I can refine
38:44
that and make it listenable at the very least. I think that's a that's
38:46
the minimum level of when that you would have to walk away with. But
38:52
in terms of the Bonnie and Clyde story, you know, Darren, that
38:54
the core of this film, whether it works for you or not, it
39:00
is going to be whether you fall in love with the characters as much as
39:02
Tony Scott did. He fell in love with them enough to save them.
39:07
Even though there is an alternate ending where Clarence died and he basically dies and
39:12
then just isn't dead anymore, right basically how it ended, but there was
39:16
there, and it was cut together of a version where Clarence did not make
39:22
it out of that shootout. Did you fall in love with the characters the
39:28
same way that Tony Scott did or do you feel that they should have been
39:31
dead as door nails on the way out of this film? No, I
39:36
totally fell in love with them. It was a little I was trying to
39:39
piece together exactly what was happening in the very very beginning where it's like he
39:44
sees her and he asks her out, but then it's like he's meeting her
39:46
for the first time, and I'm like, but you, but you already
39:51
but you met her but you didn't. But after we got past that,
39:53
you know, I it was just super sweet and genuine of two people sharing
40:00
who they were and falling in love and you know, and it's the nineties,
40:06
so we're just gonna get married the next day, like why not?
40:08
But No, I love that. I think they were a great couple.
40:13
They were encouraging each other and and Tierantino writes, these kind of characters really
40:17
well, you know, again, I haven't seen it all the way through,
40:21
but you know, what's her name? Like, like, what is
40:24
it? Honey baby? And the guy's honey bunny, Honey Bunny, honey
40:29
Bunny, which which actually just a quick interjection that is why my wife her
40:34
her. The short version of her nickname, as it's evolved over time,
40:37
is bun. It's short for honey bunny, because that, yeah, be
40:42
cool. Yeah, but no, I I totally fell in love and I
40:46
totally see him wanting them to write off into the sunset to travel down to
40:52
Mexico with Sarah Connor and set up a training camp. But but no,
40:59
it was it was good. I think they were really endearing. Christian Sader
41:04
and Patricia Arquette were really good. They and again I give it a lot
41:09
to the writing, like I can hear quit even though a lot of the
41:13
brutality is not my cup of tea. He is an amazing writer, Like
41:16
he writes like, I'm going to probably bump up my overall rating by a
41:22
star just because of I cared about the characters and I was invested in the
41:30
you know, in the tension of wanting to know what's going to happen to
41:32
them all throughout this movie. And and a lot of movies don't do that.
41:37
They're just kind of throwing plot at the wall. But not this one.
41:43
So we know, at the very least, Darren, it's not going
41:45
to go lower than one star. So that's good to know. That's good
41:49
to know already at least one star. No, not all. Trust me,
41:53
I've come in at as zero. So Tristan, same question to you.
41:59
Do you fall in love with Clarence and Alabama by the end of this
42:02
film? No heartless? I see, I don't. I really don't.
42:09
I expected to, but I really don't. I didn't like Patricia Arquette's performance
42:15
in this. I felt like she was the wrong choice personally. Also,
42:21
I don't know, there was just I really like Christian Slater, I really
42:24
I like him as an actor. I feel like he gets under he's underrated.
42:29
I feel like he is not a part of the conversation all the time,
42:31
and he should be. And but there were certain moments in this where
42:37
he kind of felt like he was. There's a lot of moments when he
42:42
shined, and there was a lot of moments when he was forgettable, and
42:45
I feel like it was kind of I feel like the movie overall, and
42:50
I'm kind of like leaning into my into my rating here as we're as we're
42:53
rounding third, I think the movie was too long, even though it was
43:00
only two hours, I felt like it was too long. I felt like
43:04
there was more than four or five times when I was like, man,
43:07
we're still in this scene. Okay. There's so many times when I've I've
43:13
been like, man, this is a really good scene. Oh this was
43:15
a good scene three minutes ago. Okay, you know, like it just
43:19
it felt like it needed to be tightened up, it needed to go through
43:22
a round of editing and condensing of I felt like the rhythm just wasn't there,
43:30
and I felt like Christian Slater's character was kind of a victim of that,
43:34
where he would have these moments to shine and then we'd have these really
43:37
prolonged scenes. Some were good, some weren't, and we're just we're kind
43:42
of like, oh wait, that's right. Christian Slater's the protagonist, right
43:45
right, right right, and he's oh, right right, he's the male
43:47
lead. Patricia ar Keett is the female lead, and everything like that.
43:51
But there was just something about our Keet's performance that felt inauthentic to me,
43:57
and so I could I never really was able to fall in love with the
44:00
characters because of that. Well I will, I do want to piggyback off
44:05
that Tristan. I did kind of feel that as well. In the beginning,
44:12
Like it was more of a slow burn for me to fall in love
44:14
with the characters, because in the very beginning of the movie, I was
44:17
like, I kind of want to see what's happening over here. This other
44:21
stuff that's happening is way more interesting than this love story, and the love
44:25
story for me, it got there, but I was like, Oh,
44:30
the mob's coming after this guy, and this guy knows this guy, and
44:31
there's this Like so is that what you were kind of saying is like the
44:37
cast of characters and events surrounding our couple was in ways more interesting than the
44:43
couple themselves. Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it. Yeah,
44:46
that's my specialty redetermining what Tristan says in slightly better ways, and my
44:52
specialty is answering my own questions. But as since we're already talking about our
44:57
final ratings right here, I'll go ahead and go on my my very brief
45:01
diet tribe and say that Tristan is very wrong and the characters are very lovable
45:07
by the end, and I really wish I could count I wish someone I
45:13
wish a loyal listener would go back and listener episodes and go wrong. Yeah,
45:17
I would love to have a Telly. But the the what makes the
45:22
characters so lovable is that I consider them so believable in the sense that these
45:31
are they have dysfunctions that I believe could exist in the real world. And
45:37
I think that in terms of side characters, I can plainly say that Brad
45:45
Pitt's Turn Is Floyd is one of the greatest, most overlooked cinematic tour de
45:51
forces of all time. Because I knew Floyd. I knew Floyd really well.
45:55
Floydomate for wists Floyd exists, and every time I watch this film,
46:04
I am overjoyed to meet Floyd again because he makes me laugh. Because there's
46:08
a part of me that looks at that and says, Brad Pitt ain't acting.
46:13
Brad Pitt was that guy at some point in his life. Maybe not
46:16
then, but he was that guy at some point, because that's too good.
46:22
That is not That is not somebody going to a Stanislawsky method classroom and
46:27
figuring out how to act like a stoner. That's somebody who's like, no,
46:30
I got this, can I can I put some weed in this this
46:32
honeybear thing? Because I kind of know what I'm doing, right, I
46:37
won't forget my lines, don't worry. So when when the when the shotgun
46:40
cocks and he's like, yeah, okay, yeah, you're gonna go down
46:45
that way for a long time and then you're gonna make a right. God.
46:52
I love that performance so much. I can't believe that's the guy that
46:57
was later in Fight Club. That kind of bends your brain, doesn't it
47:00
That fight Club's only six years after this talked about how Brad Pitt really took
47:07
something that was that was nothing on the page and really made it into a
47:12
memorable performance. Like there's a reason why he's the camera rolling and he cocked
47:16
the shotgun and then I'm gonna let me do this. Yeah, I yeah
47:22
it. I mean the thing is, he's what Twelve Monkeys is two years
47:24
after this or something two or three years and it's like I can't even like
47:29
it, you know. Brief brief interlude. Brad Pitt's talent is so often
47:36
underappreciated by the general public because he is that good. Like, it's ridiculous
47:43
how talented that guy is. You look at this, you look at Twelve
47:46
Monkeys, you look at Fight Club, you look at Ocean's eleven. You're
47:50
like, wow, that guy. You look at Moneyball, you look at
47:53
it anyway. Anyway, Brad pitt appreciation moment over with, Let's go right
47:58
into our ratings right here. So Tristan, I already know you're going to
48:01
disappoint me. But Darren hates to go first. So I'm kind of torn
48:07
here. It's a very difficult moment. So I'm going to light this chester
48:10
Field right here, and I'm going to decide that I'm going to go first
48:14
this time. So we'll we'll we'll start with me. We'll go a little
48:17
bit different here. I unabashedly adore this film. There is so little in
48:25
it that doesn't work. Okay, look for a film to be there.
48:30
There is no like perfect perfect film. I think we can all agree on
48:32
that. There's always even if you think something. That's the question we were
48:37
on. That's why we're doing this podcast to find the perfect. I'm just
48:39
kidding, no, I like, even even in a perfect film that you
48:44
love, there are moments where you're like, eh, you know, that
48:45
could have been a little bit different. Ah, that could have been a
48:47
little yes, even in The Girl with a Dragon Tattoo, Tristan. I
48:51
see that face that you're making. Though this is a visual medium, you
48:53
know, I'm right, I was. I was going through Fincher's filmography will
48:58
really quick in my head. I hate that. You know that gone girl
49:01
has that camera thing that doesn't cut on the door. I will never let
49:06
you forget Tristan, never for the rest of your life. So long as
49:09
I breathe, that will come up every so often. I've gone beyond anger
49:15
at you guys to anger at myself. I'm just like you deserve it,
49:20
and I will say that, you know. I'll cite this right here.
49:25
It had a budget of twelve and a half million and domestically earned twelve point
49:30
three. This movie is a flop by any stretch, but it's said all
49:37
over the place that it developed a quote unquote cult following over the years.
49:40
I can assure you that I was a member of that cult, following from
49:44
the moment I walked out of that movie theater in only nine cinemas in only
49:47
Maryland, and I said, I freaking love that thing. This is a
49:52
five star film if ever there was one for me. Absolutely adore it,
49:57
love everything about it. I love that the music is weird, I love
50:00
how pulpit is. I love the performances. I'm in love with with Clarence
50:04
and Alabama by the time they get to the end. I would have been
50:07
devastated if Clarence had died at the end of this film. I needed him
50:12
to survive. And I think Patricia Arcuatt is great as Alabama. Any sins
50:17
of her performance are you know, it's a little clunky in the beginning,
50:22
but then once it gets going, and then boy does she earn it in
50:25
her confrontation with James Gandelfini's character. So that's my five stars. That's my
50:32
effusive praise. That's everything coming out of me that I've been holding in since
50:36
the beginning of this podcast. And just to vary it, I am because
50:42
I know Darren's going to at least have a one star floor. I'm going
50:45
to kick it over to you, Tristan, and see how low can we
50:47
go with your star rating for True Romance. Well, I think this was
50:53
you know, like every Tony Scott film has something of value because he's a
50:59
great director. Even if I don't like the movie, there's something of value
51:02
because he's so talented, and there was a lot to like about this movie.
51:07
There was a lot that irked me, and there was a lot that
51:09
I think didn't work, and I wanted to give a generous three, but
51:15
I think talking with you guys kind of helped me boost it up just a
51:19
little bit more. And so I'm going to give it a three and a
51:21
half. All Right, Okay, I can let that slide. That's fine.
51:24
You can live with that. Okay, I can live with it.
51:28
I can live with it, Darren. Can I live with your rating?
51:31
Well, yeah, i'd say, because I again, I for movies like
51:37
this, I have to kind of detach. Would I own this movie?
51:42
No, Like would I buy this? And like, you know, but
51:45
if I was walking along in Blockbuster and saw the cover and then looked at
51:47
the list of actors, I'd be like, oh, like, I'd probably
51:52
give this a shot, you know, because it's just got all these powerhouse
51:55
actors really early in their game. And and yeah, the fact that I
52:00
did fall in love with the characters, that I felt invested in the story.
52:07
You know, there was no shaky cam just half a point right there,
52:09
just no shaky cam. Always a good thing. So I'm gonna and
52:15
this was the first time for me watching this so we didn't really get to
52:17
that question. But I to twenty twenty four is the first time watching this
52:23
nineteen ninety three film. But I'm going to split the difference between you guys
52:29
as I don't give half stars and I'm going to give it a four.
52:31
So I think that extra bump is going to go from three to four.
52:36
I think I easily could have given this a three, but you know,
52:38
they made me care. But yeah, I'm going to give it a four
52:43
out of five. Well, given the aggregate scores in the way that it's
52:46
gone since Beverly Hills Cop Two, I would say that things are really starting
52:52
to pick up steam here in the House of Also Scott, And so that
52:57
lead that tease us up for a film that comes out two years after True
53:01
Romance, just a scant two years after True Romance. Darren, what is
53:07
it that we're going to be watching next time for house Lights? Well,
53:10
next time we're going to nineteen ninety five with Crimson Tide. Here on house
53:16
Lights, Join the Revolution, Join the ned Party.