Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 120 - Thijs Spoor - CEO Perspective Therapeutics

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Episode 120 - Thijs Spoor - CEO Perspective Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:06
  So welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub.
• 0:08
  Today I'm joined by Taste Spore, CEO of Perspective Therapeutics,
• 0:13
  one of the most exciting companies in targeted
• 0:15
  radiopharmaceuticals. Taste had had an unconventional
• 0:19
  career spanning biotech, Med tech, capital markets and now
• 0:24
  precision oncology. And what stands out immediately
• 0:27
  is his passion for the science. Perspective is developing
• 0:30
  targeted, highly precise radiotherapies designed to
• 0:34
  deliver treatment exactly where clinicians need it.
• 0:37
  And the company has some major milestones ahead.
• 0:40
  In this conversation, we talk about taste and his unique
• 0:43
  journey, the inspirations that shaped him, the science behind
• 0:47
  perspectives of platform and the big vision that's driving them
• 0:50
  forward. So let's get into it.
• 0:52
  First of all, great to have you. How are you?
• 0:55
  I'm very good. Thanks.
• 0:56
  Happy New Year to you. Yeah, Happy new Year.
• 0:59
  Great start to the year this right like first rapper working
• 1:02
  day back. Exactly.
• 1:04
  No, it's it's been a 2025 was was interesting, but 2026 shaped
• 1:09
  me up to be a fantastic year for the space.
• 1:12
  Amazing. Yeah, we can get into that a
• 1:13
  little bit as well. But first of all, let's just
• 1:16
  take it back a bit. I want to talk about your
• 1:18
  journey. I mentioned in the introduction
• 1:19
  it's it's a little bit unconventional, right?
• 1:22
  You know, it spans multiple parts of healthcare and and
• 1:25
  capital markets. What?
• 1:27
  What's taken to taking you to where you are now, but also how?
• 1:32
  How did it all begin? You know, so it started actually
• 1:35
  in university where as I was doing a pharmacy program, I
• 1:38
  thought it was something a bit more interesting in my mind than
• 1:41
  working at a chemist shop. And so I decided to sort of look
• 1:45
  into nuclear and I got really fascinated by it.
• 1:47
  So I graduate as a nuclear pharmacist 30 some years ago and
• 1:52
  at that point the field was dominated by imaging.
• 1:54
  Did some really interesting work with the English company called
• 1:56
  Amersham, worked for them and actually set up some of the
• 1:59
  world's first nuclear pharmacies in in Israel and Hong Kong and
• 2:03
  Colombia and the Netherlands and a few other jurisdictions.
• 2:08
  It's really helping set up the supply chain and going from
• 2:10
  there, just treating marketing within diagnostic imaging.
• 2:14
  And you know, radiopharmaceuticals are pretty
• 2:17
  unforgiving. They're very tricky to do.
• 2:19
  But when you get them right, they're fantastic.
• 2:21
  And I say that because we can actually, we can see in all of
• 2:23
  our images if the drug is working or not.
• 2:26
  And if you have any issues, you notice it, right?
• 2:28
  If there's a bad scan, there's a bad scan.
• 2:30
  Same way if you're looking at a bad photograph, you can tell
• 2:32
  it's a bad photograph just by looking at it.
• 2:34
  And you get the same thing with a radio pharmaceutical.
• 2:37
  The application now with radio farms has been, you know, back
• 2:40
  30 years ago, the whole growth mode was, was cardiology.
• 2:44
  And so cardiac procedures grew from you know sort of the total
• 2:48
  market being 3,000,000 procedures a year to now
• 2:50
  18,000,000 a year, the dominant portion being cardiac.
• 2:54
  And then there was, it's supposed to be a big wave of
• 2:56
  innovation for Nero that never really panned out because
• 3:00
  there's no disease modifying therapies.
• 3:02
  And so or is oncology is looking interesting because in oncology
• 3:06
  of radio pharmaceuticals, you actually have disease modifying
• 3:09
  therapies that are the radio pharmaceuticals themselves as
• 3:12
  you get into more targeted pharma.
• 3:15
  And so around the time when it, when the field didn't seem to be
• 3:19
  in rapid growth mode anymore, I left and I went into banking was
• 3:24
  a published healthcare analyst at, at JP Morgan, Credit Suisse,
• 3:27
  covering medical device and and biotech sectors.
• 3:31
  And as I was going through that journey, I realized I actually
• 3:33
  want to get back on the field and help build and grow
• 3:35
  companies again. So when I took a imaging
• 3:37
  company, public AGI company, worked with a cardiovascular
• 3:42
  company, those are a private company, those that are trying
• 3:45
  to go global. And then I've been very excited
• 3:47
  with perspective Therapeutics and my diligence on perspective
• 3:51
  Therapeutics is really the same as you know, what I've learned
• 3:55
  during my first year at the industries nuclear pharmacist,
• 3:57
  which is that if the images look good, then you can you can
• 4:00
  follow it. It's all about the science and
• 4:03
  various times when stocks go up or down or doing a programs or
• 4:06
  successes or not, often it's the science that that lets people
• 4:10
  down. It's not management, it's not
• 4:13
  execution if the science isn't there, if the drug doesn't do
• 4:16
  what it's supposed to do, no amount of management can fix
• 4:18
  that. And so for me, it was really
• 4:21
  important to back to get on board the platform that I could
• 4:25
  tell the science was going to be transformational.
• 4:28
  I mean amazing. I mean you talked about the
• 4:30
  different roles you had then as well.
• 4:32
  You know, we talked about biotech, Med tech, finance.
• 4:36
  What What were the experiences or inspirations that that have
• 4:39
  now shaped the way that you lead?
• 4:42
  So it's, it's there's a couple things that happened that really
• 4:45
  impacted not Lee, but what would go after.
• 4:48
  And so early my career would actually looked at a radioactive
• 4:51
  version of digoxin or digital. It's a heart drug, a known heart
• 4:55
  drug, you know, for almost a century.
• 4:58
  But we tried making it radioactive and it was terrible.
• 5:01
  You know, it went to the heart, but a lot more went to the
• 5:03
  liver. And so if you have the liver and
• 5:05
  the heart so close to each over the body, which they are in
• 5:07
  humans, you get an absolute disastrous yes, Sir, by
• 5:11
  distribution. And so learn pretty rely on you
• 5:13
  have to follow the by distribution.
• 5:15
  And I hope all radiopharmaceutical companies
• 5:17
  that are out there, you really follow that very carefully.
• 5:20
  You have to look at the images, look to see where the drug is
• 5:22
  going because you can see where it's going.
• 5:24
  Wherever it goes, it's going to damage.
• 5:26
  So if it goes to healthy tissue, it's going to damage healthy
• 5:28
  tissue. If it goes to tumor, it's going
• 5:31
  to damage tumor. And you were they want to kind
• 5:32
  of track that all the way through.
• 5:34
  We also had a couple interesting failures along the way of
• 5:36
  things. You learn a lot, I think an
• 5:38
  awful lot more from programs that don't work than those that
• 5:40
  do work right. Because if it do work, then you
• 5:41
  assume that you got everything right, which you probably did.
• 5:44
  But in things that don't work, if they don't work, it's either
• 5:47
  because of something in the program that's inherent,
• 5:50
  something of the molecule, something of the application, or
• 5:54
  it may just be just the wrong thing at the wrong time.
• 5:58
  So one of the big things we learned, you know, along the way
• 6:01
  is, you know, one of my previous companies, we had a really
• 6:03
  interesting approach for cystic fibrosis with helping patients,
• 6:06
  how they manage their digestion and their enzymes.
• 6:08
  And the business plan was laid out.
• 6:10
  We're starting to ask you on the clinical trials.
• 6:12
  And then Vertex had a fantastic breakthrough to really help
• 6:15
  these patients by transforming the disease in those patients
• 6:18
  themselves. And so that ended up obsolescing
• 6:21
  the innovation that we are developing on.
• 6:23
  And so it's really he has Wayne Gretzky says he escaped to where
• 6:26
  the puck is going to be. And that's the big thing.
• 6:29
  You have to be aware if he can't just fix today's problems, you
• 6:31
  have to understand what are the problems going to be in 5-10
• 6:35
  years when he wants to launch your your product.
• 6:38
  And those problems are, are important in terms of can you
• 6:40
  access patients or the competing therapies?
• 6:42
  Will they be competing clinical trials?
• 6:44
  We're not afraid of competition in this industry, but you really
• 6:46
  want to be aware of the landscape.
• 6:48
  Yeah. And then are you bringing in
• 6:50
  people around you to be able to foresee those problems way
• 6:54
  before they happen? For example, like you know, some
• 6:57
  companies might bring in a some kind of commercial strategy
• 7:01
  presence around phase two free quite early, earlier than you
• 7:04
  think, mainly for that reason. You know, how do you market and
• 7:09
  get this to a position that's actually going to be
• 7:13
  commercially viable when it when it gets to that point?
• 7:16
  I mean, it's not not undermine the importance of having
• 7:20
  commercial people at the right level, but I think the whole
• 7:21
  management team needs to understand the landscape and you
• 7:24
  want your whole team that's focusing on an asset
• 7:28
  understanding where that field is going.
• 7:30
  So my chief medical officer, my head of clinical development, my
• 7:32
  operations people, we try and always say very current as to
• 7:36
  what's coming in the field. You know, it's only the paranoid
• 7:39
  survive was the title of the best selling business book and
• 7:42
  you have to be pretty paranoid. You want to be, I'm sure what's
• 7:44
  happening, not everything that's coming at you, you have to
• 7:47
  respond to. Not everything is a threat.
• 7:49
  It believes you want to understand what's there.
• 7:51
  And that's really important for our teams is to really
• 7:53
  understand what's out there, how are things drifting, what's
• 7:56
  emerging the field. You want to have the right
• 7:59
  systems in place that your team is actively monitoring the
• 8:02
  landscape, your understanding. The best thing you can do is
• 8:04
  listen, you know, listen to what physicians are doing.
• 8:07
  I found I get great value from asking physicians where do they
• 8:11
  think the field is going to be in five years?
• 8:14
  And the high value question for me is what do they think their
• 8:16
  peers are going to be doing in five years?
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  Because no physician will ever say that they don't follow
• 8:20
  practice or guidelines. But you can try and tease out
• 8:23
  what's happening and what will happen if you ask people say,
• 8:27
  what are your peers going to be doing?
• 8:28
  And that gives a better read because I think a lot of the
• 8:31
  keeping the leaders who talked to are innovators, but there's
• 8:34
  usually a lag in the field and you understand what drives that
• 8:37
  lag and and so you can understand your, your modeling.
• 8:40
  Yeah, yeah. And then and then I really want
• 8:43
  to move on to perspective as well.
• 8:45
  Now just for the people who don't know who perspective are,
• 8:50
  how would you describe the science at a high level and what
• 8:53
  makes this approach to targeted radiopharmaceuticals so
• 8:56
  powerful? So I mean there's perspective
• 9:00
  therapeutics. We're we we call ourselves
• 9:01
  leading radio pharmaceutical company.
• 9:03
  We've been piloting, really innovating with a newer isotope
• 9:07
  called Lead 212. And I think for those that are
• 9:09
  slightly familiar with radio pharmaceuticals, the whole
• 9:11
  industry started with iodine 131 for thyroid.
• 9:14
  But what Novartis showed with some of their companies that
• 9:17
  they acquired is that you can develop assets using a Leticium
• 9:20
  177 radioactive isotope. Now you've got billions of
• 9:23
  revenues every year with a prostate cancer drug in a
• 9:28
  neuronticon tumor drug that Novartis markets.
• 9:30
  That seated a whole explosion in the industry.
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  And part of that growth was to try and figure out could you do
• 9:35
  a better job with a different isotope?
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  And so if you switched from letizum titanium, could you have
• 9:41
  more of a punch? We've gone one step further than
• 9:44
  that and said we actually want to take the field further and
• 9:47
  actually use LED 212. We're isotope agnostic.
• 9:51
  We actually have access to every isotope in our lab and we tend
• 9:53
  to go with what we think is the hardest punch with the best
• 9:56
  safety profile. So a perspective therapeutics,
• 9:59
  we're saying we want to hit tumors hard and fast.
• 10:03
  We don't want to hit healthy tissue and we think we can
• 10:06
  optimize that with this platform we've developed and it's a 2
• 10:10
  fold platform. That part of that platform is a
• 10:13
  lead specific chelator. It's a very important scientific
• 10:15
  principle for how do you actually get the radioactive
• 10:18
  metal to the tumor. We can bind it something.
• 10:21
  Whatever you bind it to has got to have a very, very fast bio
• 10:23
  distribution, very good clearance, very good uptake on
• 10:26
  tumor, very clearance from the rest of the body where you don't
• 10:28
  want it, the drug going. And then you want to the
• 10:31
  medicines and the alpha particles or beta particles to
• 10:34
  come out to hit tumor hard, fast and then disappear.
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  You need to let the immune system come in and do its job
• 10:40
  and allow the body to recover. Your radiation therapy has
• 10:42
  taught us that the long slow burn doesn't work.
• 10:45
  You need to do kind of high pulses at the tumor and not give
• 10:49
  it a chance to recover. And we think Lead 212 is very
• 10:51
  good at that. We have a platform this common
• 10:54
  scaffold that we have IP protection on, but allows us to
• 10:57
  really roll out new programs. And we've also actually invested
• 11:00
  in a, in what will be the first commercially ready rated farm
• 11:05
  network that's really focusing on, on Lead 212.
• 11:08
  And you know, there's, there's good investments in the field.
• 11:12
  Arana Meds has been made some good investments with their
• 11:16
  facilities. And we're, we're taking our
• 11:19
  approach, which is develop a network.
• 11:20
  And if we can have a network of sites, we feel we have a lot of
• 11:23
  sort of backup. So perspective executes on
• 11:26
  clinical programs. But our 2 core platforms are
• 11:29
  we're really good at discovering best in class molecules and we
• 11:33
  can prove that with by distribution.
• 11:34
  And we're also rolling out then the best in class manufacturing
• 11:37
  scale up so that we can develop commercially ready product.
• 11:41
  Yeah, Yeah. Nice.
• 11:43
  I mean, it's super exciting and you're clearly really passionate
• 11:47
  about what you're doing. And the first, one of the first
• 11:50
  things you said in my first question was that you
• 11:52
  meticulously check that the science before you joined
• 11:55
  perspective What what was the moment that you said, you know
• 11:59
  what? Well, it made you say this is
• 12:01
  the platform I want to build around.
• 12:03
  So it really came down to a human's image.
• 12:06
  It's all the company founders. I said I want to see human
• 12:09
  images of the drug and they show me the 1st in human image and
• 12:12
  the human image in this SSTRT patient was very, very
• 12:15
  compelling. What you saw was that the drug
• 12:18
  within one hour of injection was binding to the tumors, but it
• 12:21
  wasn't binding to heart or liver or lung or kidney or brain or
• 12:25
  any other tissue. And 24 hours later, if the drug
• 12:29
  wasn't on tumor, it rolled off and got dumped in the bladder
• 12:32
  and eliminated from the body when the patients voided next.
• 12:35
  So you actually end up with this really, really strong bio
• 12:38
  distribution profile that said, great, you can look at the
• 12:41
  images and de risk it. You don't need to autopsy, you
• 12:44
  don't need to do all these other work.
• 12:45
  You can actually look pretty carefully and say, yes, the drug
• 12:47
  is going where it's supposed to. And yes, we're actually you
• 12:50
  think we should be able to get the potent effect onto the tumor
• 12:54
  itself. One of the things that is
• 12:57
  differentiated in radio pharmaceuticals, especially with
• 12:59
  our platform, is we use elemental twins, meaning we have
• 13:03
  a version of every drug that doesn't have any therapeutic
• 13:07
  damage, but just gives an image what that means that we can see
• 13:11
  in advance who which patients should benefit, which patients
• 13:16
  could benefit and which organs will have the highest chance of
• 13:19
  getting off target radiation before we induce the radiation.
• 13:23
  And so that's really, really important because then the
• 13:26
  patient and their clinician can be informed ahead of time as to
• 13:29
  what the potential risks can be and what the potential
• 13:31
  opportunity or benefit could be by looking at the scan before
• 13:34
  they've been subjected to any adverse radiation.
• 13:37
  And so we feel it's a really, really powerful tool.
• 13:40
  It's like if you knew in advance what the results of the exam are
• 13:42
  going to be before you took it, you know, and you got to choose
• 13:45
  which exams to write, that'd be a great way to think about
• 13:47
  things. And that's what we do with these
• 13:49
  patients. Yeah.
• 13:50
  And it's not only that, you know, the radiopharma market is
• 13:55
  it's in a really good place at the moment.
• 13:56
  You know, it's one of the hottest areas to be in in
• 13:58
  biotech, at least from, you know, just talking to general
• 14:01
  people out there. And, and Max, I think that's
• 14:04
  because, you know, we've seen growth in the field already.
• 14:06
  I think the immune systems role has been really important and
• 14:09
  checkpoint inhibitors have done a lot to advance understanding
• 14:13
  of the immune system and the ability to boost them.
• 14:15
  And that's been a fantastic mark on its own.
• 14:16
  If you're thinking about chemotherapy of being initially
• 14:20
  quite brutal to actually getting very, very targeted with the
• 14:24
  anti drug conjugates, these ADC's that do a targeted chemo.
• 14:27
  Well, the third pillar of treating cancer patients is
• 14:29
  radiation. And your choice is either do you
• 14:31
  hit the patient from the outside in and that case risk a lot of
• 14:35
  external damage or can you target the the cancer from the
• 14:38
  inside out. And if you target from the
• 14:40
  inside out, if you just start off and and deliver the relation
• 14:43
  into the tumor first, you have a much better chance to evolve the
• 14:46
  field. And, and it's really, I think
• 14:48
  that's what's driven a lot of the innovation is that you have
• 14:50
  ways to make everything more targeted, more precise.
• 14:52
  I don't think anyone wants a less targeted, less precise
• 14:55
  medicine. Yeah.
• 14:56
  Do you think it's been a bit of a long time coming as well for
• 15:00
  Radio Pharma to kick off? It's, it's, that's a great
• 15:03
  question. I think there's been challenges
• 15:05
  in the field. There were some programs that
• 15:07
  tried being developed in the early 2000s that launching and
• 15:10
  they had their challenges. They use different isotopes.
• 15:13
  Zeblin and Bexar were interesting molecules that had
• 15:17
  some really compelling data. It was harder to figure out
• 15:20
  which patients would benefit, which ones wouldn't, and that's
• 15:23
  always been the challenge. We know that the radiation is
• 15:25
  unforgiving in terms of what it will destroy, but it's a double
• 15:29
  edged sword is unforgiving what's going to destroy if that
• 15:31
  hits healthy tissue. And so that's why you really
• 15:34
  want to be so careful about that by a distribution.
• 15:36
  That's where the innovations were coming.
• 15:38
  I think one of the reasons why I think 2026 would be such a
• 15:41
  transformative year is that by last count, I think there's
• 15:44
  something like 77 zero companies out there developing rated
• 15:47
  pharmaceuticals. Some of them are quite similar
• 15:50
  to each other. Some of them are vastly
• 15:51
  different with their approaches. And I think you've got this
• 15:55
  extraordinary creative sort of moment right now in the rated
• 16:00
  pharmaceutical space where a lot of approaches are being tried,
• 16:02
  challenged, funded, and we'll see which ones are ultimately
• 16:06
  successful. That number only rise as well,
• 16:09
  you would think, over over 2026. We think a child, I think
• 16:13
  there's there's reasons as to why the innovation matters.
• 16:16
  People are developing ideas, trying things out.
• 16:18
  There's a lot of innovation outside the US in Europe and in
• 16:22
  Asia of trying to explore new candidates.
• 16:24
  You can do the bio distribution animals quickly.
• 16:26
  You can do human bio distribution quickly.
• 16:29
  There's a lot of learnings you can get in the field.
• 16:30
  And now that people are learning, they get better.
• 16:33
  And I think the creativity is now coming to bear with how do
• 16:36
  we think about, you know, sort of better medicines, best in
• 16:38
  class medicines. And as the supply chains across
• 16:42
  the world, across every platform, stabilize and get more
• 16:45
  mature, it's easier for people to feel comfortable investing
• 16:49
  capital. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:51
  It's funny how the market works in those shifts as well.
• 16:54
  An area does become hot, it then accelerates and and becomes very
• 16:59
  hot and then you have more people jumping on the bandwagon
• 17:02
  like you say that 770 companies is going to rise and and
• 17:06
  etcetera. It's always funny how it works
• 17:07
  out. Yeah.
• 17:09
  And, and not all those companies will necessarily make it or be
• 17:13
  ultimately be successful, but it's great that they're all be
• 17:15
  given the chance. 100%, I can't agree more.
• 17:19
  I mean, when, when we talk, I said at the beginning that
• 17:22
  you've got some important milestones coming up.
• 17:25
  Let's just talk about that. What what are the the biggest
• 17:27
  ones that you're excited about over the next 12 to 18 months?
• 17:32
  So with Perspective Therapeutics, we've got a lot of
• 17:34
  major milestones coming. We have three programs in clinic
• 17:38
  currently in clinic being patients that we're treating
• 17:41
  under US sponsored sort of Inds. We also have a really broad
• 17:47
  pipeline of programs that's come behind that where we do the the
• 17:51
  animal optimization that should lead to 1st in common imaging.
• 17:54
  And so we'll be excited to release those results.
• 17:56
  But our our clinical programs, we have a neuroendocrine tumor
• 17:59
  program called BMT Alphanet. We previously showed Dana in 23
• 18:05
  of those patients at a dose that we think is is quite meaningful
• 18:08
  for patients. And we expect to get a lot more
• 18:12
  patients who have been enrolled already to have their final day
• 18:14
  to come out later this year. We've tried dosing a little bit
• 18:18
  higher. We are one of the first
• 18:20
  companies to be given the clearance to go to higher level
• 18:23
  with that medicine because the safety profile looks so strong.
• 18:26
  And so we expect to see some results there.
• 18:29
  We're doing some really interesting combination work in
• 18:31
  combination with Bristol-Myers Squibb with one of their agents.
• 18:35
  We're actually looking at a checkpoint inhibitor combined
• 18:39
  with an alpha therapy, which together should cause a nice
• 18:43
  boost for what the immune system can grab onto.
• 18:46
  And so in Melanoma, patients were studying that.
• 18:48
  We should expect to see results from that program in 2026.
• 18:51
  And then we have another program that targets fat alpha.
• 18:54
  This is a pan tumor program, so a marker that shows up in almost
• 18:58
  all solid tumors. If solid tumors get big enough,
• 19:01
  they start to form their own infrastructure.
• 19:03
  And that infrastructure that they form this group
• 19:05
  scaffolding, it doesn't do much except protect the tumor from
• 19:08
  the body. And so if we can actually
• 19:10
  destroy all that, then the body can come back in and attack the
• 19:14
  tumor again. And we think that can be used
• 19:17
  more, more than that we actually cause damage to the tumor itself
• 19:20
  and not just the scaffold. So that has a lot of
• 19:23
  ramifications across multiple solid tumors.
• 19:25
  And we're enrolling patients in that study.
• 19:27
  So once we roll that we can comment about data.
• 19:30
  Our platform programs look very interesting as well with our
• 19:32
  first and human validation work that should be rolling out over
• 19:35
  the next 18 months. And we're investing a lot into
• 19:39
  infrastructure. And so it's a really important
• 19:41
  theme in radio pharmaceuticals is how do you actually do things
• 19:45
  the right way. And I think there is some people
• 19:46
  in cell therapy got surprised with they picked the wrong
• 19:48
  technology. Some of that some of the
• 19:51
  infrastructure OPS last. We're actually investing in a
• 19:55
  platform that we as far as we can tell is both call it
• 19:59
  forwards and backwards compatible, meaning we've we've
• 20:02
  spec our facilities out so that they can handle some of the
• 20:05
  legacy isotopes that people heard of and anticipation of
• 20:08
  what some of the future isotopes could be as well.
• 20:11
  And so if we can do that at commercial scale, we'll have
• 20:14
  incredible leverage on the industry to be able to deliver
• 20:17
  more and more doses of higher and higher quantities to
• 20:20
  patients as as we get the approvals.
• 20:23
  Wow, wow, that's amazing. I mean, and then, you know, if
• 20:27
  you zoom out and take a look at the, the whole strategy, you
• 20:31
  know, what's the long term vision for perspective?
• 20:33
  How how big can this get and what does success actually look
• 20:37
  like for for you guys? So as we, you know, there's a
• 20:42
  couple of analogies we look at, you know, at the end they were
• 20:45
  really good at discovering medicines.
• 20:47
  And so we want to keep doing that and and investing
• 20:49
  innovation. We've turned into a bit of an IP
• 20:52
  juggernaut. We keep rolling out new patents
• 20:54
  and innovating and protecting those innovations.
• 20:58
  Ultimately you know we're not going to be able to self
• 21:00
  commercialize all there are programs initially, but
• 21:02
  downstream we we may, you know, our first few programs will be
• 21:06
  partners to commercialize them. But as we build up our own
• 21:09
  capabilities, we expect to be able to do that on our own as
• 21:11
  well. And so to be an integrated radio
• 21:13
  pharmaceutical enterprise with discovery, clinical trial
• 21:17
  development and commercialization puts us in a
• 21:19
  really strong position, especially since we think we're
• 21:22
  developing some best in class assets.
• 21:24
  We want to really make sure we understand what does that mean
• 21:27
  to give those assets the time to to find the right footing in the
• 21:30
  patient management paradigm. And you know how big can it get?
• 21:34
  You know, we think we're just scratching the surface of where
• 21:36
  tumors can get to. I think ultimately if you know
• 21:39
  what a tumor looks like, you can get meaning of what is surface
• 21:41
  express. You can then get a radio
• 21:43
  pharmaceutical into that patient's body to then start
• 21:47
  priming the immune system to attack her further to to
• 21:50
  actually shrink the tumor down and to be supportive of all the
• 21:54
  potential things that you try and throw at tumors as we try
• 21:57
  and shrink them. I, I think what you guys are
• 21:59
  doing is, is, is really amazing. And you know, we talk about
• 22:03
  radiopharma getting bigger. You know, you were there before
• 22:06
  that that boom came in. I, I just think you know, you,
• 22:09
  you, you've spotted a really good company that you wanted to
• 22:12
  lead and you're building it exactly the right way.
• 22:15
  I feel really inspired by like what what you're doing.
• 22:19
  I don't, I don't know if you've got a chance to think about this
• 22:21
  as well taste, but the last question is always the same on
• 22:24
  this podcast. So it's if you could have dinner
• 22:29
  with any scientist or innovator, past or present, who would it be
• 22:32
  and why? Yeah, so I actually thought
• 22:35
  about that one. I thought there's AI can I can
• 22:38
  do not check two boxes. But I think one that would be
• 22:41
  really relevant for me is I'd love to have dinner with my
• 22:43
  grandfather. So I never met him, but he was
• 22:46
  one of the leading radiologists in the Netherlands and really
• 22:49
  kicked things off with starting to look inside the body from
• 22:51
  internal medicine procedure. And so it'd be great to have to
• 22:55
  have dinner with the early, early innovator in the field, in
• 22:58
  any field and be able to share with them how far the field has
• 23:02
  come and where it could go. I think for anyone that started
• 23:05
  off trying to do an X-ray of their hand and, and, and way
• 23:07
  back when Doctor Curie first started looking at things, I
• 23:11
  think they'd be absolutely amazed at where the field has
• 23:13
  has gone and in terms of where it's going.
• 23:15
  A. 100% I think that's a a great, great answer.
• 23:20
  Look, thank you so much for coming on taste.
• 23:22
  It's been a pleasure. So Max, I really appreciate you
• 23:25
  having me on on this podcast and and I hope 2026 is a prosperous
• 23:29
  year for everybody. Please look, please everyone
• 23:31
  like and subscribe to the bio hub and and thank you so much
• 23:34
  again, Tase thank you.