Latest / Book Flood Podcast / Deborah Salyer on Books, Libraries, & Bookstores (E76)
Transcript
- Tom Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood Podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest this week is Deborah Salyer Deborah is the senior presenter for Bureau of Education and Research, an implementation and training specialist for teaching books, and is personally responsible for more to be read piles than anyone else on the planet. Welcome, Deborah. Deborah Salyer: Thanks, Tom. I'm delighted to be back. Tom Nixon: So let's start talking about books. What makes a book compelling for you? Deborah Salyer: there are lots of things. I'm sometimes I'm like the kids. I love the cover. I'm also a first pager. I love when I'm hooked in the first sentence. I keep a little notebook of my favorite first sentences. Like, if your teacher has to die, August isn't a bad time of year for it. You know, an old Richard Peck book. Yeah. but I think Tom Nixon: I love that. Well that is great. Deborah Salyer: one that makes you think and one that makes you keep wanting to turn the pages and and and in a picture book, one that makes you opens all your senses, your eyes and makes you think about the world around you. Tom Nixon: Hmm. What was your career prior to your current position? You've been doing this for quite some time now, but what was it before that? Deborah Salyer: Yeah, for fourteen years, I think, fifteen, maybe I'm on fifteen, I've been working as kind of a coach for anyone who works with literacy with children's and young adult books, both with junior library guild and teaching books and now overdrive. But like many people, I had a long road. I started first by saying I would never be a classroom teacher, right? And what, six months later? Ta da, I'm gonna save the world and teach them to read and write. And then I decided I could reach more children. Or same choir. Same choir. Yeah. Yeah. Tom Nixon: Sister, sister, we we all said that Think yeah. Deborah Salyer: Yeah. And then I I thought, all the things I could do if I was in the library. You know, I could help all the children and work with the teachers and reach out into the community. And so I got my library credential through the University of South Carolina and Got my first little school, made lots of mistakes at first. had to spend money the first week. So I, you know, I can always I always tell people, always have a list to purchase because you just never know when you're gonna suddenly get money and have to spend it faster than you're ready. So, and then I moved across America from South Carolina and became the district libr district librarian of San Diego Unified. And then I I interviewed for that job and another school and my who later became my manager, she said, Do you want to help the children at one school? Or do you want to help all the children in San Diego? Well what am I gonna say to that? So Tom Nixon: She she saw you coming. Deborah Salyer: She saw me coming. Yes, she did. Yeah. So all I'm trying to help as many people as I can with books and literacy and resources and doing stuff that's practical and realistic and not make it harder than it has to be, 'cause too many things you have no control over. Tom Nixon: And and you get to work for three of my favorite companies, Teaching Books, Overdrive, which is now one, and Junior Deborah Salyer: You see? Tom Nixon: Library Guild. I was always a big fan, always found money for that. Deborah Salyer: Yeah, Junior Library Guild, I I had a that's an interesting story of how that happened. But I they I still it's one of the first places that I look, you know, what are what are they picking? Because they actually hold the books in their hands, read them sometimes as manuscripts. I mean, remember when I was there, sometimes we liked a book, but it had one little thing and we thought, ooh, I don't know about that. And they'd change it. So since nineteen twenty nine, they're picking some pretty amazing things. And of course I'm delighted to be working with Overdrive who purchased teaching books and learning more about digital books, ebooks, audiobooks, and so as I think about what am I reading, I've got, you know, one on my phone, one on my iPad, one on my laptop, but it knows where I am. So I don't have to remember. Tom Nixon: there you go. What makes a great library? Deborah Salyer: that's a really good question. What makes a great library? I think it first of all it has to be a place that invites people in, you know. I spend a lot of years in my many decades career helping people make a library a welcoming place, having things that are relevant, current, inviting. I think it has to be flexible, it's kind of like I recently read a book about classroom libraries, and it talked about how your classroom library has to change depending on who's in your classroom. And libraries need to do the same thing, you know, who who is your community? Who are the people in your neighborhood and your neighborhood? That's what your library's got to be. But it also is gotta be welcoming to all the people. And you have to be flexible yourself. It's not your library, it's our library. They don't care about your books. That's why you might find a hamburger wrapper behind the 900s. you want to make sure they feel like it's their space too. Tom Nixon: very much so one of the things Deborah Salyer: Mm-hmm. Tom Nixon: that that i appreciated about the library that i ended up being the teacher librarian for Deborah Salyer: Mm-hmm. Tom Nixon: was what i hated about it first it only it only had shelves on on the walls it was a pretty good sized space but they wanted it they wanted to use it as a multi-purpose room as well for teacher meetings which was fine love getting teachers Deborah Salyer: Right. Which is fun. Tom Nixon: in there which is fine But then I started getting movable shelving, which is a lovely thing. I never realized. Deborah Salyer: yeah. Movable shelving is a lovely thing. I never had the opportunity for movable shelving, but I just went to see a librarian who actually won me through C SLA and and her library, she is a new library, she has her shelves are on wheels and I helped her move a new one in and shift things around and it it's Right back to what I said about being flexible. She can push those things out of the way when she has a book fair or she has a larger audience in the library for a guest that might be coming in. So yeah. Well, you knew move with the times too, you know, with your Sora. I mean, your district was championing. with the e books and digital books and and they s continues to be good users of all the kinds of books that they have. Tom Nixon: I'd love to hear that. it it ended up we s we had a push already, but COVID pushed us in that direction and no turning back. Deborah Salyer: Yep. Yep. But I'm working now on there are some restrictions and of in different places, LA for example, Iowa, I work with Iowa now, and they have some upcoming changes about how long kids can be on the screen. But, you know, it's why are they on the screen, right? We want good instructional time using a screen. Like with teaching books. You could be on teaching books and you could listen to a meet the author recording. And then you go on to paper, pen, and speaking. What did you just hear? what what does that make you think about? If you could ask them one more question, what and so you're thinking, you're engaging with those things and not so it's it's active learning, not passive. And I think that's what makes the difference. And reading is reading. You're when you're reading an ebook Tom Nixon: I I absolutely. Deborah Salyer: or whatever, you're thinking. Who did this? Who is the bad guy in this story? Right? No matter what you're holding in your hands. Tom Nixon: no, absolutely. it's it's interesting to watch because you and I have both been edu in education for a long time and we we see The downtick for screens. And so what public education does each and every time, mind you, what they do is, we're gonna completely overreact. And so you can't find a screen anywhere. You just sort of feel that coming because, you know, phonics versus whole language. Deborah Salyer: Yeah. We have to find the balance. Yeah, we have to find the balance. We in education we tend to swing one far one way this way and one way this way. I mean, we think about science of reading, right? We at one point we threw phonics kinda out with the bathwater, but now we have twenty plus years of scientific research to show that we need background information, we need to know the wor parts of words, we need to know rhyming words, we need vocabulary that's specific to the content that we're reading, you know, all the things. we need to write about it. We need to speak about it. So we're we're bringing all that stuff back, which is a good thing. Tom Nixon: Is a good thing. So, do you have a library that you want to give a shout out to? Maybe one you've been in lately? I always like to. Deborah Salyer: Library. like a physical library. let's see. I'm trying you know, I just I think about a couple of things back you mentioned COVID, right? And and of course I travel a lot for work and I do the whole busman's holiday. If there's library, I'm totally gonna go. one of the most recent ones I was in was in Salt Lake City, Utah. And it was huge. cute multiple levels and lots of glass. And so that was a very fun space. And then last fall I was in the Seattle library. I can't believe it for the first time. And it's shaped like an open book, but glass. And the children's department, of course I went to the children's department, was very fun. Lots of front facing shelves so kids can pick the books, lots of displays. soft seating and things like that. They also had a I love their gift shop. They had a great gift shop. but I'm also a fan of, you know, I mean absolutely paying attention to your public library. Those things are so, so, so important. the girl that does my hair, I found out she was buying audiobooks. And I said, I am paying you too much money. If you are buying audiobooks, you could get them for free at your library. Give me your phone. So We pull up Libby and we get her all signed up and so she's gonna just get those things. You know, that's your tax dollars at work. So wherever you are, as you're listening to us talk, have car this conversation, it's important to use your library. They have so many things, so many activities. My little tiny library where I live in Westerville, Ohio, right now is a feast for your eyeballs. There's all these fall displays and h like you feel like you're in a set of Harry Potter. Tom Nixon: Mm. Deborah Salyer: So you can have little tours and they have activities, Even this summer I did summer reading program as an adult and turned my paper in and they gave me a free book and a big stack of coupons for local businesses. So I've I've discovered new local businesses that I didn't know. Yeah. And Tom Nixon: Nice. Nice. Deborah Salyer: then I've got my bookstore. I didn't know I had a children's bookstore and I've lived I'd lived in Columbus. almost ten years when this happened when I found it. And they just do children and YA books and they have amazing programs. I'm just gonna do a little plug. It's called Cover to Cover Books. And it's in Upper Arlington, Ohio. And they have been they're like family to me now. They just we I go in and we talk about the new books and they show me what's new and they'll get anything I want. It's I really and I and they're an independent bookstore so I really appreciate that too. They save me from when I have to read hundreds and hundreds of books to get ready for what's new in children's books. You know, those three things C L Westerville Library and Cover to Cover, they save me. Tom Nixon: John Skalze, who's a science fiction writer in your state, actually, Ohio, lives in Dark County, but he talks they have a couple, Jay and Mary's bookstore, and he They have become the the fortunate recipients when he every Christmas he he does a thing and s and says, hey, if you want autographed books, you can go to this bookstore and and and Deborah Salyer: nice. Tom Nixon: they will mail them out for you. So he's created this lovely synergistic relationship which Deborah Salyer: That's so nice. Yeah, lots Tom Nixon: Which we Deborah Salyer: of, don't forget go, your public library has authors and illustrators who come. and often they will go to the local bookstores to sign books if they don't sell them at the event. Like my cover to cover, they sell books. Pam Munio's Ryan, you know, our beloved California author. she came and I got to see her and she signed a bunch of books and they have some of those at at the store, but she did an event for the public library too, and as well as sea children. So it was that was fun. Tom Nixon: We have a wonderful local children's bookstore. You may know Petunia's place. Deborah Salyer: yeah. Tom Nixon: and yeah, if if someone's coming through, they're gett they're getting books signed. Even if right. Deborah Salyer: Yep. They're magical. Just magical. Mm-hmm. Tom Nixon: What makes a great librarian? So the person Deborah Salyer: the person. well, the person, I think it goes almost back to, you know, what I said about, you know, what makes a good library. You gotta be flexible too, right? if I stuck with the training I got when I first got my credential and I never grew, my people would not be coming. I would be like that librarian who I forget what where she was. Which is probably a good thing. But she had had a the previous administration had pretty much kept the kids out of the library. And so the first thing she did was make sure the door was already unlocked, always unlocked. And the security officer wanted to know, what in the world? What why is the door unlocked? She said, I want people to come in. And they still didn't come in. So eventually she went to Sally's and she bought big bottles of lotion and a variety of of flavors so kids and then eventually the teachers came to the library because they heard they have lotion. So that the answer, the circle back answer to that is somebody who's flexible and thinks outside the box and and wants people to be in there and keeps learning about technology and getting to know their kids, knows the curriculum. You know, and I think you have to have joy to be a good librarian. if If it's not fun, you might be in the wrong place and that you can move. you you have to be an advocate, right? For your kids, it's not about you, it's about your kids. What do they have access to, right, Tom? Tom Nixon: Right. Deborah Salyer: the you know, whether it's books or technology or programming, or I was just telling my granddaughter this morning, the children I worked with in South Carolina, they were was a hundred percent free lunch, project schools. They lived this close to the Atlantic Ocean, I've never seen it. and so I brought it to them, you know, I went to the beach and I brought the water and the sand and we looked at the shells and we looked them up in books back then. so that they could have those experiences. Or even when I worked at a well-to-do school, when the kids went out on vacation, I would ask them to bring me back a baggie of dirt and we looked at the dirt, just compare it this place that you went, this place that you went, and then we had this big map and we would mark it on the map. So we learn places, you know, so an interactive library, a library that's kid focused, all of that comes from you. Right? If you're rigid, your place feels rigid. yeah, just flexible. And I think you have to keep learning, Learning is fun. Sign up for a class. get yourself a book group. you and like my course, right? I have a lot, I teach this what's new in children's books every year. Every year it's different. And I have people all over the country who say that's what I I come to that because you've done a you know, a lot of the work. I can't do all the work for you because I don't know what your kids want. But somebody who narrows it down from the thousands of books to these might be the ones that are good for you. So you gotta but you gotta read them too. I don't be afraid to just take it after the child's read it, take it home and Tom Nixon: Hmm. Deborah Salyer: read it yourself. Tom Nixon: Absolutely. So you are obviously a library person. Are you a bookstore person too? If you're in a new town, something do you check out the local bookstore? Deborah Salyer: I totally check out the the bookstore. I love to find new new bookstores and you know I'm not very I don't play I'm not very good game player because I I I can't hold my cards close to my chest. I get all excited and I'll walk in the door and clap my hands or my gosh, I'll be so excited. yeah, I love to go Busman's holiday, go to the public library, go to the bookstore, and I almost I try to buy something new or something that I have, even if I just read it when I'm on that trip, and then I try to find I pass it on, I give it away at the session a session that I'm doing, or if I can find a free library. I like to drop off what I've read at the free library, but yeah, I totally like I remember right after Andrew Clements died. I wanted to read Friendle again. And I was at a little beach town in California. So I I went to their it was a used book store and I went in and got a copy of Friendle and I read it. And there was a a free library actually just down the block. So before I left that town I dropped it off and left it behind. Yeah. Tom Nixon: Nice. Because that's that's the major problem. going to conferences as well. Yes, though the vendors will give you free books, but you got to get them home. So Deborah Salyer: Yes. Shipping books is can be very expensive. Tom Nixon: Right. Deborah Salyer: yeah. But we have to support our writers, Tom Nixon: And donating them is cheap. Deborah Salyer: right? You know, if they if they're gonna get the new contract, if they're gonna write that sequel, then we have to buy the first one. Tom Nixon: How should libraries and librarians deal with the very real concerns of book banning? Deborah Salyer: That is a very real concern, Tom. Do I know you've talked to my mind just went blank. That librarian Tom Nixon: Amanda Jones. Deborah Salyer: Yes. And Amanda has been our champion. Bless her heart. I'm so sorry that she had to go through that, but it has certainly helped so many people in her wake. I have I came from the I grew up teaching in the South. And honestly, back then, I never had a problem. There was not any school. I remember one time the newspaper even came and asked me. And I never did. So it is a little shocking to me that we we are where this is. and Tom Nixon: Right. Deborah Salyer: it's caused such fear in the hearts of both teachers and library staff. and they're worried about getting their hands slapped or now some places they're worried about going being fined or losing their jobs and things like that. So I I think with any kind of again so It feels like one of those swings like you were talking about, Tom, with you know how we are. I'm waiting for it to swing back and settle down to, let's be people have gone to school. Nobody goes to through education to be a teacher, to be a librarian, to make this tiny little salary with hours that never quit because they have bad intentions. They just don't. It's not a thing. But I think we have to be prepared, right? you have to make sure you know what is the procedure in your institution, right? You don't want to be the one unaware. anytime somebody comes to you with a complaint, what do you do? What's your next step? Or if you hear about it, I know even back then I always told people make sure your front office staff knows what to do. Otherwise, they could throw a monkey wrench in the whole thing because they don't know what the procedure is. They might say, I'm that's just terrible. We're gonna take that right off the shelf. And that's not the procedure in most cases. So you must have a collection development policy. Everybody must know what that is. Teachers, especially now included, office staff because they're the ones that answer the phone or some parent that's come straight in and is upset or some family member that's come in that's upset. I think you also have to realize you're not alone. You have state associations, a reading association, the library association, and those are all connected to state, national, and there's resources available. You must report these cases so we we have documentation like at every library. And I here's the other thing. I think you should be careful not to take it personally. It's not personal. It feels personal. I feel like. I feel like you've got mail, you know, when he tried to put the bookstore out of business. It feels personal because it does. You feel insulted because you're the professional. You chose the books for your classroom. You chose the books for your that you want to teach. And now, Now somebody's questioning that value. That's a h it's hard. It's a hard thing. Tom Nixon: What would people be surprised to learn about you? Deborah Salyer: Mm-hmm. Can you go first? What would people be surprised Tom Nixon: What would people be? Deborah Salyer: to learn about you? Tom Nixon: that's a that's a good one. huh. People would be surprised to to learn that I have lived abroad more than once. Deborah Salyer: I didn't know that. Tom Nixon: Once in Japan, once in Korea. Deborah Salyer: wow. Tom Nixon: Japan was courtesy of the United States Navy. Deborah Salyer: thank you for your service. Tom Nixon: You Korea, I was a teacher there. Deborah Salyer: fun. I I never thought about doing that until lately to teach in overseas. I do know people who have done that. And some of my library staff friends have kids that are doing that. I I think people would be surprised. Here's what they may not be surprised that I have spoken in forty nine states in my career, but they would be surprised at which state is missing. Tom Nixon: Which state is missing? Deborah Salyer: Yeah, I've spoken in forty nine states, so one state I haven't spoken in. And they would be surprised at which state that is. What Tom Nixon: Hmm. Deborah Salyer: would be your guess? Tom Nixon: Let me think. I I think people would default to Alaska or Hawaii, and I'm gonna say it's neither of those. Deborah Salyer: It is neither of those, said Tom Nixon: Mm. Deborah Salyer: Dum dum dum Tom Nixon: North Dakota. Deborah Salyer: dum dum. No, I actually I love going to North Dakota. I get to go there probably every other year. it's West Virginia, which literally is next to my state where I live. I am this close to just walking over there to a school campus and just doing some book talks to so I can check it off and get the charm for my bracelet. I think the other thing people would be surprised to know is that I, little known fact. am the first and only that we know gold judge, female gold judge in ECHL history. Tom Nixon: E C L Deborah Salyer: Yeah. The East Coast Hockey League. Back when I lived in San Diego, I worked for the sports teams at the Sports Arena, San Diego Sports Arena. And I was a statistician for the hockey team and the indoor football team and the soccer team. But one day they let me work the light behind the goal. And no other woman in the ECHL history had done that. And then shortly after that, They put the buzz, the light on so nobody has to sit there anymore. People Tom Nixon: Mm. Deborah Salyer: would be surprised about that. I'm surprised about that. My mother was really Tom Nixon: Right. Deborah Salyer: surprised about that. Tom Nixon: I bet. What are some good ways to expand Deborah Salyer: I'm not your athletic type. Tom Nixon: what are some good ways to expand access to books? Deborah Salyer: Access to books. I books are all around you. Books are all around you. They are you know we've talked about the public library, your ebooks, your audiobooks, that is your that's your tax dollars at work, right? So if you're using Sora, for example, make sure that your school has a it's called a PLC, public library connection, where your kids who have a Sora app that's your reading app or whatever you're using. If it's Mac and Via or whatever, make sure you're connected to your public library because then it's easy for kids to go from your school collection right into their appropriate section of their public library. so you can always have a book in your pocket. you can put books Tom Nixon: Fresno Unified did Fresno Unified did that very early on when that was not quite a thing. And Deborah Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And add libraries. Tom Nixon: Yeah, fundamentally changed things for us for sure. because it was so easy. I mean, literally, I submitted the form and to our IT folks and I it was like the same day, the next day, boop, it's on. Yeah. Deborah Salyer: wow. Yeah. And s and that's again, that's your tax dollars at work, right? Sora you buy for yourself, your school, your district, or whatever, but your public library, that's your tax dollars. put trade books with your friends. I mean, no, a lot of library staff I know they they get donations, but they don't fit their collection or they don't have the staff or the time to get them in the collection. So have a book trade at your school or in your classroom. my granddaughter is planning a book swap birthday party and all the kids are bringing their books and they're gonna trade books and then they're gonna make bookmarks as one of the activities at this party. so having a a she'll be eleven next month. Yep. She's my child for sure. She's a big reader. so that's another way and you know I mean don't be afraid to ask for donations. I one time I had a grandfather Give me, I think it was five hundred dollars back then. And I bought books and put on a cart and I took a picture and sent the picture with my thank you letter. And he wrote back and said, That didn't go very far. I said, You know, we're so grateful for what you sent. But if you'd like to do it again, well, I'm happy to take your check. And so he he did it again. Yeah. Ask. You know, I had a principal say, How much money do I need to fix this collection? And I said, You're gonna need ten thousand dollars just to get started. He said, Really? And I showed him what I had pulled off the shelf, and I said, This is not what you want to send home. Do you want to send home this 1950s book that says one day man will walk on the moon? No. Your children deserve accurate information, books that they want to read. Get your checkbook out. So ask. The worst they can say is no. Especially. Tom Nixon: Okay. Deborah Salyer: As you turn closer to budget is done, they got money in a pocket you don't know about. So get your get your list ready and just ask. The worst they could say is no. And so many times they will find the money. Tom Nixon: Yeah that was always one of my go-tos is I would I would watch the the deadlines for spending money very closely and we would get Deborah Salyer: Yes. Tom Nixon: real close and I'd say, you know that $30,000 or whatever you have sitting there that I can see, Overdrive would love to have that for Sora. And they had become big fans as well. And the nice thing about that was buying 30 thousand dollars of regular books, you know how long that can take. Deborah Salyer: Yes. Tom Nixon: Sending money to Overdrive for your digital library connection, not quite instantaneous, but about as close as you're gonna get. Deborah Salyer: It's pretty close. It's pretty close. Yeah. That much money of books that if you had to process them and stant them and shelve them, that takes a ton of time, but immediate access almost. Like next day. I mean, and that's so such a joy. Somebody asks you for a book and you say, We don't have that today, but I can get it for you in the next forty eight hours. Tom Nixon: Hm, right? Deborah Salyer: That really that brings your joy right back. Tom Nixon: absolutely. What are you working on now? Deborah Salyer: What am I working on now? I am working actually on a picture book. Of my own. My friends have been telling me for years. we love that you talk about our books, but you should talk about your own. So I've been doing some research. It's going to be a picture book biography, which is one of my favorite things to read. And it's about a woman nobody really knows much about, but she was pioneer during the time of the building of Hoover Dam. And I've done boots on the ground work there, been to her cemetery, I mean where she's buried. I've dug through the archives at the Las Vegas Museum. So I I've been to some classes. so I'm working on that. So that's my I guess biggest thing I'm working on right now. and my other thing is that I've just birthed the last, the newest two hundred page handbook to go with my seminar. So that's done. And now Tom Nixon: wow. Deborah Salyer: I have four hundred slides to write. So that's my other project that I'm doing now. Tom Nixon: What does the future hold for Deborah Sawyer? Deborah Salyer: Tom, let me see. I'm looking to the future. well, I'm getting ready to start travel season. and now with teaching books, I I have four conferences that I'm planning for. One in Indiana, one in South Carolina, one in California, and one in Wisconsin. and then I'll be traveling around the country doing these full day children's book seminars and then a handful of those online and then I don't know what's gonna happen after that. Ca can't see that far. But I love what my job and what I'm doing and so Then I have Tom Nixon: Nice. Deborah Salyer: a couple of personal trips. I'm finally going to the Santa Fe Opera and Tom Nixon: wow. Deborah Salyer: cross my fingers, I'm going on a tour next fall that gets me into Downton Abbey. Tom Nixon: Really? That's very cool. We were big Deborah Salyer: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tom Nixon: fans when it was on. Deborah Salyer: Me too. Me too. I'm reading right now. you asked me. Did you ask me what I'm reading? One of the things I'm reading right now is a book by the Countess of Carnivon, who is the current owner of High Claire Abbey. it's a book Tom Nixon: wow. Deborah Salyer: about her family and how they got involved in the funding and discovery of King Tut and King Touch Tomb and Treasure. So I'm reading that. It's a big person's book. I'm reading adult books now, Tom. Tom Nixon: Wow, how'd that go? Hmm. Deborah Salyer: I know. Well, I decided I need to read something at night that didn't make me think about my real job. Tom Nixon: Yeah. Deborah Salyer: But I have found some really good books and now I'm just it's insatiable. I finish one and I start the next one. Tom Nixon: Hmm. Deborah Salyer: So Tom Nixon: Is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonates with you? Deborah Salyer: Still resonates. I did finally get a copy of Rabbit Hill. Rabbit Hill was a Newberry winner when I was a kid. And I remember maybe in the fourth grade checking that book out over and over and over again. So I finally found a copy of that and reread it. I'm not real sure what my Straw was. It doesn't quite have the same magic. it's a great story, but I really love the Winnie the Pooh books even now. And I heard Tom Hiddleston read one online. You can find it on YouTube, and he reads a Winnie the Pooh story. It's delightful. He has the best voices. The best voices. Tom Nixon: Mm. Deborah Salyer: It's just hard to get my head around Loki does Winnie the Pooh, but it's Totally worth a twenty minute lesson. Tom Nixon: I know what you mean about the books from your past though. When I was a young boy Johnny Tremaine by Esther Forbes. It Deborah Salyer: yeah. Tom Nixon: w I reread it last year, hadn't read it in, you know, more than fifty years, certainly. and it was a good book, but n not not what it was then for for sure for me. Yeah. Deborah Salyer: yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. Tom Nixon: Is there one organization that promotes literacy that you would recommend for people to give donations to, to support? Deborah Salyer: I I'm gonna go back to what I've said earlier, and that's your your local your local public library. I that's that's my go to. I think about, you know, one day, you know, think about my will or you know what happens to if I don't take it if I can't take it with me, who am I giving it to, right? somebody who'll do something give it to Tom. Tom Nixon: Give it to Tom. Deborah Salyer: Yeah. I I don't have a favorite, favorite, but I do when I can, I do donate to my my public library to support Tom Nixon: Nice. Deborah Salyer: their programming. Mm-hmm. Tom Nixon: Hmm. My this is a new question I've added because I'm interested. I donate every month to every library which which supports our Deborah Salyer: yeah. That's another good one. We mentioned that when we were talking about book banning and support for every child's right to read. Yeah. Yeah. Tom Nixon: Well, I wanna thank our listeners and and watchers for being with us today. Please remember to like, subscribe and share. And thank you, Deborah, for being here today. Always appreciate it. Deborah Salyer: Thanks so much for having me. It's been the joys always to see you and your smiling face. Tom Nixon: Thank you so much.