Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 17: FPV drone filmmaking with Steven Clarey, IBC 2024 round-up with James Artaius, plus your London 2025 show questions answered

Transcript

17: FPV drone filmmaking with Steven Clarey, IBC 2024 round-up with James Artaius, plus your London 2025 show questions answered · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:10
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show podcast for October 2024.
• 0:16
  David McClelland: My name's David.
• 0:18
  David McClelland: Coming up in today's show, we go headfirst into the world of first-person view or FPV drone filmmaking with Steve Clary.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: With an FPV, you crash a lot when you start.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: A lot.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like you crash over and over and you use simulators on the PC and you crash a lot on those.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: Once you actually get it, though, and you're able to track athletes and things, it really offers up something different in filmmaking than a traditional drone.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: You can get closer.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: Everything feels like a computer game to the viewer, especially when you film cars and you're behind a car.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_04: It literally feels like you're playing Colin McRae.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's really opened up new possibilities in filmmaking.
• 1:01
  David McClelland: And we put your questions to photography and video show event director Ruth Folkard, ahead of the London 2025 event.
• 1:11
  David McClelland: But first, just like autumn leaves, camera news keeps on falling from the skies.
• 1:16
  David McClelland: And here to sweep them up into neat little piles for us before they turn too mushy is Digital Camera World editor James Arteus.
• 1:24
  David McClelland: James, how are you doing?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing good, David.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Autumn's here, fall is here if you're in a different part of the world.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's all the same to me, but yes, very exciting.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Leaves are changing colours.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Camera companies are doing cool and crazy things.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, very, very happy boy over here.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:38
  David McClelland: Are you a fan of this turn of the seasons?
• 1:41
  David McClelland: Because I've turned on my central heating.
• 1:43
  David McClelland: I don't know what clothes to wear when I leave them leave the house in the morning.
• 1:47
  David McClelland: I find it quite a frustrating time of year in many ways, but I know uh visually it's certainly quite spectacular if you've got the right camera to go out there with.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, as a man whose boiler has just gone kaput, I'm not so happy being indoors at the moment.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, the turning uh here's here's a funny thing, David.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: When I shoot, when I shoot, I don't actually like shooting green very much.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I love shooting the leaves when they're on the turn.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yellow and red leaves look absolutely beautiful.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been very, very lucky recently playing with uh a new and very expensive bit of kit.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's that Hasselblad Earth Explorer Edition kit, which is about$14,000 US worth of stuff.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: For that princely sum, you get uh uh these are limited to a thousand, so you get 1,000 of these kits are made, no more, no less.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm lucky enough to have been using number 0001, so the most exclusive of them all.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you get a Hasselblad X2D 100C, so the 100-megapixel medium format camera with a 55mm lens, which in real money is about 43 mil in full frame equivalent terms.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a nice sort of general exploratory kind of lens, and that's the idea with this camera.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the Earth Explorer edition.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's designed to sort of inspire you.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Whenever you pick it up, it's got a, I want to say the colour is called brown tundra.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a very exclusive colourway to go with this exclusive package.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you turn the camera on, it has a um a limited edition startup menu with the Earth Explorer logo.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it has a matching hand-embroidered Hasselblad strap, so it's a very, very, very, very bougie, lovely piece of kit.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, when you when you pick it up, it is one of those things that's more than just uh a tool.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: It really inspires a bit of passion.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: You want to go out and you want to ramble and you want to sort of wait until golden hour or get up early, God forbid, and take pictures of stuff.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: So um I haven't yet been lucky enough to go and ramble across the moors, but I have done some street photography with the thing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: And uh as a hassleblad user myself, I'm I'm used to using the X2D, but this is a really it's a beautiful bit of kit.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know Hassies are expensive, but they're just gorgeous.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: They're, you know, it's like having a luxury car.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you you get what you pay for, it's a beautiful bit of kit, the menus are lovely, best menus I've ever used in any camera.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: The picture quality is fantastic.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And as I say, shooting these sort of yellow and reddening leaves, and you've got the hassleblad colour science, which is just, oh, so on the money, you get it's a beautiful time of year to be taking pictures with that camera.
• 3:57
  David McClelland: I think we should probably sweep up some of the uh some of the IBC leaves or news.
• 4:02
  David McClelland: Uh, nominally, the International Broadcast Convention in Amsterdam, in reality these days, broadcast yes, but it's where professionals involved in media and entertainment and and content with all the rabbits' ears, that means.
• 4:15
  David McClelland: Uh, and the technology, crucially, that supports them.
• 4:18
  David McClelland: They all come together in Amsterdam for one big showcase of what's new and next in the industry.
• 4:23
  David McClelland: And typically that means camera, kit, software stuff, all focused on moving pictures, though.
• 4:29
  David McClelland: But it is from many of the of the main names that we might recognise from Still's imaging as well.
• 4:35
  David McClelland: Uh, James, like Dewey Cobwebs on a cold October morning, digital camera world was all over, all over IBC.
• 4:42
  David McClelland: Uh, what's uh what tickled your feet as you rambled in the meadows of Amsterdam?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we had boots on the ground.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was as always, it's a very bustling, very fun show to be at.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's nice to have, you know, obviously we lost Photokina the other year, and you know, we still have the photography and video show, which is a wonderful, you know, big event.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's lovely to see these big events thriving and all of the professionals descending.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I think perhaps to me the most exciting thing was um it's a new Canon product, this the EOS uh C80, which um obviously I'm invested in the Canon ecosystem, so it's of particular interest to me.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in terms of what Canon is continuing to do with this RF mount, so a couple of months ago we had the C400, which is the first sort of full-frame RF mount cinema camera, and this is kind of like uh a junior version of that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a step up from the C70, which was an RF mount with a Super 35 sensor.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Now we've got the C80, which is the same full frame, uh 6K60p.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's got the dual pixel autofocus, 16 stops dynamic range.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: But what I really love about this, and this is the first the Canon, is it has triple base ISO.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Which is, um, as as you know, David, as someone who does a lot of filming, dual-base ISO was a bit of a game change when that came along, or at least it could be if it fitted into your workflow.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: The idea of having triple base ISO, and I think on this camera it's 800, 3200, and 12,800.
• 5:58
  David McClelland: I don't know.
• 5:59
  David McClelland: That that sounds as though it'd be a really good uh three bases of ISO to have for sure, yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean just you know, as if if you are, you know, usually when you when you're shooting stuff like we're we're here now, you're in your studio and you've got your camera set up, your situation's gonna change that dramatically.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: But if you are a run-and-gun shooter and you know you might be in and out of tunnels or you're shooting an action scene where the light is inconsistent or you just want to you know push things for um supplemental lighting, just having that range inbuilt to give you that protection, that triple stop, I just think that's that's a technology that is so underappreciated, um, perhaps until people start using it in the real world and then going, Bloomin' egg, how do we get by without it?
• 6:35
  David McClelland: And in terms of the type of environment in which this camera might be used, uh yes, it's really important because the C80, like like the C70, and and since the C70 came out, I've seen it so much at events, inside outdoors events, sporting events, and so on.
• 6:51
  David McClelland: I've seen it so much sometimes replacing an FS7 or or something like that, because it is it's portable.
• 6:57
  David McClelland: It's still a bit chunkier than your typical uh, you know, uh uh DSLR camera, uh mirrorless camera.
• 7:04
  David McClelland: And I think that that depth is to allow for the heat uh exhausting, for example, because those sensors and the processors do get very busy, but it's still very compact overall.
• 7:17
  David McClelland: So having that smaller camera in a dynamic environment, and crucially I saw, and I haven't tried this myself, but uh Canon did say is that there's no crashing between those three bases of ISO.
• 7:30
  David McClelland: So if you are running uh automatic ISO, depending on what what your other settings are, it's not suddenly gonna crash or flash as you skip between one ISO base and another, which I think really fits that format of camera.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: That was that was my experience and the very limited experience had using the product.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was you know, it was it was a smooth transition, as smooth as these things can be.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, it's gonna be quite a dramatic change if you're going in or out of a tunnel or something like that.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: But again, to your point, to the form factor, you know, this is similar size to the C70, or the same size really as a C70, which is kind of like a chunky DSLR form factor, you know, it gives you room for the heat dissipation, plug in all the different XLR connections and things.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: But it just makes it this is what's different than the C400, which is obviously a big boy, proper, proper camera.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is just a nimble handheld slash gimbal sort of device.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it it does bridge that that gap between, you know, where do is this for hybrid content creators?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is this for low budget film productions?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is it for higher budget film productions?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Is it for independent filmmakers, solo shooters, you know, there's a whole lot of people.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: And as you say, the C70, I was astonished because I thought that's a really niche camera, and the RF mount is very new.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's not going to take off quite as Canon might expect.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And Bluminek, I was wrong about that because it is everywhere.
• 8:39
  David McClelland: In terms of other cameras that Canon has in this range, you uh mentioned the C70 there, the C80 following up on that.
• 8:47
  David McClelland: But then there's also the R5C, which was uh announced a little while ago.
• 8:54
  David McClelland: Um why would somebody choose a C80 now over an R5C, or vice versa?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think the R the R5C sits in a very interesting place because I don't know quite how much to buy into the narrative.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: So the when the when the original R5 came out, obviously it was it was very much hyped as an 8K 30p device.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't until people started using it that ah, you get 20 minutes of 8k, which actually when you're shooting takes, 20 minutes ain't that bad, but it also ain't that good.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of storage though.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: There you go, it's also a lot of storage.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I think because of that, the R5C came along, which really reduced these recording limits.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you get maybe like 30 or 40 minutes now per take.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: So part of me thinks like, okay, the R5C was kind of released as a bit of a band-aid to sort of make that more palatable.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: But it really is a very, very capable machine in its own right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think to your point, David, the answer is the R5C is for those who are looking for more of an 8K workflow.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: If 8K is really something that is important to the way you shoot or the way you want to, you know, crop into your footage or, you know, whatever your requirements may be, if you're 8K-minded, that's the way to go.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the C400, the C80, these are sort of 6K, they top out as 6K60p, which is honestly that's more resolution than most people are ever going to need.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, some people do want the 8K, and if if they do, Canon's recommendation is typically if you're looking for a uh a cinema product slash an EOS product that does 8K, it's the R5C over the R52, even.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: They do recommend it for cinema use, go for the R5C, which I thought was interesting, which and may also perhaps lay some breadcrumbs for will there be an R5C2?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um but you can never tell because Canons sometimes love um releasing lots of different iterations of their products.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Other times they just love sticking with what works.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, but yes.
• 10:38
  David McClelland: Speaking of releasing or not releasing products, let's hop over to Nikon news.
• 10:44
  David McClelland: Now, back earlier this year, it was at the photography and video show pretty much back in March.
• 10:49
  David McClelland: It was a move that took many by surprise, me included, was that Nikon acquired Red, maker of high-end digital camera systems.
• 10:58
  David McClelland: It has been for uh a good while now.
• 11:01
  David McClelland: Um is it still is it still too early, though, for us to be seeing the first fruits of the combined Nikon and Nikon yellow and red mite.
• 11:12
  David McClelland: Is it is still a bit too early for that?
• 11:14
  David McClelland: Because we're only really six months on from that, aren't we?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: We are, and I think in a in a real tangible, big announcement sense, yes, it's too early.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're probably going to be looking at maybe a year down the line something more dramatic will take place.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: But we did have one of the things at IBC or around the IBC season was this launch of some red LUT lookup tables for NICON cameras.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that's for you know the mirrorless, and I think the D780 or the D850 is actually included in that update as well.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's mainly for the sort of Z9, Z8, Z72, and those sort of models.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it's four um red lookup tables.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think you've got, they're all sort of Rec 709, you've got like Bleach Bypass, uh Acrom, acromic.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's four of them in any case.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: They've been designed by uh by a Hollywood sort of colourist.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think he's the chap who worked on Mindhunter and Gone Girl.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um so they are leverage Nikon certainly is leveraging this relationship with Red and giving you a reason like whether you are already in Nikon's ecosystem, or maybe you are the person who's looking at a C80 or a C400 or an R5, and you go, oh, well, hang on a minute, Nikon have given me this statement of intent now that if I buy a Nikon product, I'm going to benefit from the Red relationship.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really what the is the importance here.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: So adding four LUTs to a camera is really neither here nor there.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: But it does tell you as a Nikon user, ah, something is happening.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: I am going to get a net benefit from this relationship, which feels like a good thing to me.
• 12:38
  David McClelland: We will see.
• 12:39
  David McClelland: Maybe it is too soon.
• 12:41
  David McClelland: IBC 2026, 2025, rather, that will have been almost 18 months on.
• 12:48
  David McClelland: I'm sure Red will have had some products in development, not so far down the line that they couldn't just uh course correct or course change with the Nikon news, and similarly on the Nikon side as well.
• 13:00
  David McClelland: So knowing what these product cycles are like, maybe that 18 months this time next year would be a good time to uh check in again if if they haven't already been banging on our door with news.
• 13:12
  David McClelland: I think so.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I think what what is interesting in particular about the LUT, now I come to think of it is so Panasonic recently um released you can purchase a license for an ARI codec, which is about, I think, two, I want to say it's 200 bucks,$199.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just interesting there.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a Panasonic user, obviously Panasonic has a reputation as being the go-to video brand for a lot of people.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, but if I want to get this ARI codec, it's$200.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: But on my Nikon, it's I get this red stuff for free, which is is the perception as much as anything else that you're going to get these things gifted to you.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that won't always be the case, but I I I like it as a as I say, a statement of intent that there is a tangible benefit as a Nikon person.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I think as you as you say, a year from now, we're probably going to be looking at the first product that will be the real fruit of this relationship, and we'll go, ah, that's what they were thinking.
• 13:56
  David McClelland: I have seen the lots.
• 13:59
  David McClelland: I think I think maybe on the DCW story, actually, you had uh uh some images or of what they look like, and they they look very uh very appealing.
• 14:07
  David McClelland: We'll put a link to that story so you can see for yourself in the show notes.
• 14:12
  David McClelland: Text to video in Adobe Premiere Pro.
• 14:17
  David McClelland: No surprises.
• 14:18
  David McClelland: No surprises here for me.
• 14:20
  David McClelland: You know, we saw OpenAI with uh Sora much earlier this year, but Adobe, uh and that that in itself was a very exciting moment.
• 14:28
  David McClelland: Again, not a surprise that it happened, but nevertheless quite shocking to see it in action.
• 14:36
  David McClelland: But now I think when we start to see companies like Adobe build it into Premiere Pro, one of the most widely used NLEs out there, I think that that is a uh kind of inflection point, maybe.
• 14:50
  David McClelland: Not only that, you've also got uh image to video as well.
• 14:54
  David McClelland: So if you've got a still of something, you can change the camera angle, all that sort of stuff.
• 14:58
  David McClelland: Uh and it strikes me that that the more we go down this line, and we've already seen it in stills, and I've already been using it in my workflow, it's just a big kick in the shins to stock libraries.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's a real changing of the guard.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously, stock libraries, since the proliferation of photography, you know, starting, I guess, 2020, 12 when smartphones became a thing and started sort of taking over from cameras.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: At the point where everyone could take images, the idea of having a library of images that you could buy from became a little bit of an anticating notion.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, as you say, this is this is now a thing where what is the use of a stock library?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because anything you can imagine.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: What I like about this thing Adobe's doing is they they they've sort of gone a little bit different to Sora and the like because Adobe seemed to quite specifically pitch this as creating or AI generation for B-roll and for previs.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just to supplement your workflow, not to replace what you might be shooting.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know whether that's a political move on their part so as to not feel like people's work is endangered.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it certainly feels to me, you know, we we all know the the uh the the pitfalls with things like Sora, things like fingers and things that don't quite render as they should.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: So using that as a primary um imaging tool isn't necessarily the best way to go, but to use it to supplemental, you know, use for use it for b-roll, use it for previews, use it for extending shots you've already got.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I one of the things they do is generate it extend now, which is kind of if you have a shot that you maybe wish lasted a few frames longer, or you know, you want to sort of um hold the footage or your B-roll is scarce.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's things like that to sort of improve the workflow, not replace the work, if that makes sense.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a really key thing that Adobe needs to do because as much as it relies on us to keep supporting the products, I think I'm sure you know as a photographer and videographer, we are quite hair-triggered to the point of Bliminech, these people are replacing us.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want to support anything that's gonna replace us, but things that help us, we're all for that.
• 16:48
  David McClelland: Yeah, it it's a tough line to tread, and we saw Apple make a real misstep, I think, earlier this year, just after its iPad announcement in the spring, where uh a bit of content that it put out was basically squashing all of these tools of creativity from guitars to keyboards to uh paint brushes and all the rest of it, just squashed them between these two presses and out popped an iPad.
• 17:12
  David McClelland: That sent absolutely the wrong message to the creative community, and Apple was rightly so ridiculed for that.
• 17:20
  David McClelland: Adobe has a has a difficult line to tread.
• 17:23
  David McClelland: And on that point, in a way, um Adobe uh this is actually a a quote from your story.
• 17:29
  David McClelland: Uh Adobe's making a lot of noise about how its model is trained only on content that Adobe has permission to use.
• 17:38
  David McClelland: And this whole thing around training data, boy, we've spoken about that an awful lot, and creatives feeling ripped off uh at uh as their work has been uh ingested into these systems and then regurgitated without attribution or payment.
• 17:55
  David McClelland: Adobe is also taking pains to make the point that, well, that's not what its Firefly systems are being trained upon.
• 18:03
  David McClelland: I think that I think that's important.
• 18:05
  David McClelland: Again, people will be looking to pick holes in that, I'm pretty sure, won't they?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: They will, but I think it's it is something, you know, Adobe as one of the many big brands, they they come under a lot of flack for a lot of things.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that is a point.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: They are making efforts to say, you know, we are not scraping the internet.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: We are not just sort of robbing everyone online of their of their you know their hard their hard-earned work.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, this is something we're taking very keen control over.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: Adobe's on board with things like the content credentials, you know, working with agencies and other camera companies to sort of um legislate the authenticity of images.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Adobe's heart is really in the right place.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: It does some crazy things, like it's you know what it was doing with you know rights and cancellation and things not too long ago.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: But on the whole, I am I am a fan of what and how they are doing.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's quite responsible.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: And certainly the end result as an Adobe user is that the tools I'm getting are really enhancing the way I work, which is really at the end of the day, what I pay my subscription for.
• 18:59
  David McClelland: It wasn't a slow news week for Sony either in Amsterdam, but uh, well, not all news is good news, despite what they say.
• 19:07
  David McClelland: And as an FX30 owner, I'm looking at you through my FX30 right now.
• 19:12
  David McClelland: Uh I was watching this story with interest because uh as much as there are some things I would really like to have on my camera, if I had of installed the firmware that Sony released, I I might be regretting it now.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: You might, and this is really unfortunate.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sony's had a couple of missteps recently when it comes to firmware updating, um, as have some of the other brands in fairness.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want it to feel like I'm giving Sony a kicking.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: But in short, um one of the sort of holy grail features for a lot of these cameras is things like shutter angle.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that, as you know, if you're a if you're a big boy filmmaker who wants to use sort of really advanced feature like well, it's not really advanced as a day, but it's sort of a it's it's a niche feature, I should say.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you want to incorporate this.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: So Sony released firmware for the FX30 and the FX3, um, I think day and date with an A7 IV update as well.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: So three firmwares out at the same time.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, when people um wanted to upgrade their cameras so they could use things like shutter angle, they then found a very limited number of cases that the cameras no longer functioned.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the it's the worst thing in the world to obviously upgrade, quote unquote, your camera and then to find it's completely bricked and you can't use it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Which that's never good.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's especially never good when this is, I think, the fourth time Sony's done it.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's certainly, there was a story we wrote about, I want to say back in April, where uh a chap bought the secondhand FX30 and he upgraded, he upgraded the firmware.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: So this was long before this most recent story, but you know, earlier in the year, upgraded this firmware, and that also bricked his camera.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: So he called Sony, Customer Service, and said, Hey, you know, um, there's a problem with my camera.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's because I updated the firmware because it was working fine before that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: What can we do about that?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Well, yeah, um, we we know it's we know it's they alluded that it was a firmware problem, but they suggested he paid them$700 for them to effectively roll back the firmware.
• 20:55
  David McClelland: No.
• 20:56
  David McClelland: So that's awful.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's terrible, it's terrible.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think also we we we need to talk about the sort of the uh the QA testing.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going to release software in any form, you know, it needs to be thoroughly tested.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: It really does, especially when these cameras are.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Crowd strike.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, well, I mean, we we are not we are not to be used as beta tasters, uh beta tasters.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're not to be used as beta testers.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you you pay a lot of money for these devices, and you know, if somebody says this is going to upgrade your camera, you rely, you know, and Sony's not short of a Bob or two, it's a big company with a lot of money for RD and QA and things like that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it was a real black eye.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: They pulled the firmware for the FX30 and the FX3 and the A74.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think the issue of it bricking cameras was universal across all of them, but in fairness to Sony, they said, hey, we've had this day and date firmware release, it's caused some problems, we're gonna just pull this off so you can no longer download it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is, and I'm sure you'll feel this pain, David, is that since Sony has done that, there's been no update as to what happens next.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 21:53
  David McClelland: No.
• 21:53
  David McClelland: Sony sent me an email uh to say, hey, we've got this new firmware, you might want to download that, and really teased me with with what.
• 22:00
  David McClelland: What was in there?
• 22:00
  David McClelland: I was I was away, I was in New York at the time taking pictures of coffee shops as you do, and uh I wasn't I didn't have my FX30 with me, otherwise I probably would have downloaded it, uploaded it, installed it there and then.
• 22:12
  David McClelland: But thankfully I didn't, otherwise, I might not be getting any use out of it right now.
• 22:17
  David McClelland: But um yeah, fingers crossed, I get an email soon, and then I might give it a week.
• 22:23
  David McClelland: Keep my eyes peeled on DCW.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I think that's that's a good best practice thing, I think, for phones generally feel a lot safer these days.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you've got a new iOS update on your phone or a new Android update, it feels fairly safe to update those.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: But best practice, I would say, if there's a new firmware for anything, if there's a new version of Windows or your Mac needs to update, give it a week, maybe two weeks.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let everyone else be the beta testers for you.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because if something goes wrong, you'd rather read about it than have to be the guy on the phone to customer services being asked for$700.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: So unless you're really, really keen, I would always wait and wait and see what's happening with the new firmware.
• 22:57
  David McClelland: Couple of bits of news in brief before we uh pour this this month's news leaves into the brown bin.
• 23:05
  David McClelland: I'll leave I'll leave that metaphor there uh for now.
• 23:08
  David McClelland: Uh you mentioned uh phones there, of course, this month.
• 23:11
  David McClelland: Well, last month saw the iPhone 16 lineup finally get released.
• 23:16
  David McClelland: Uh Apple's pretty metronomic with its smartphone releases, but uh on there, from a camera point of view, uh we saw a new wide-angled lens, 40-odd megapixel wide-angled lens, and particularly on the pros, uh, for those of you with with pro phones, that's going to be a real boon.
• 23:33
  David McClelland: And I've I've been a pro phone user for a little while, and as useful as uh as fun to play with, really, as the wide-angled lens is, it's not the best quality, particularly around the edges, and when it does put you into the macro mode.
• 23:46
  David McClelland: You've also got the camera control button, the little slidey camera control button on the top there that hasn't been met with universal acclaim.
• 23:54
  David McClelland: It seems to be a little bit fiddly in impractical use, but again, it's all in the software.
• 23:59
  David McClelland: So with those uh software updates, we'll see if uh that can be um smo I guess the experience be uh smoothed up for users a little bit.
• 24:09
  David McClelland: We'll put a link to the DCW story on there.
• 24:12
  David McClelland: I did a quick wrap-up of the uh iPhone 16 event as well, so I'll put a link in there.
• 24:16
  David McClelland: Other bits of news in brief, very, very briefly.
• 24:19
  David McClelland: Uh Leica, Leica Q343, that's something that's been on your radar, James.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the one of the worst-kept rumors, uh, worst-kept stories in the industry.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah, so the the Leica Q3, which is it's uh to call it a compact camera or a point and shoot, does it a bit of a disservice because it's uh it's a nine grand compact camera.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, you pay your money, it takes a choice.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: But it's it's a great 61 megapixel sensor.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um the base Q3 has a 28mm 1.7 lens, which is their Sumilux lens.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't speak like a rail, but Sumilux is basically their fastest, it's their you know low-light performance lens.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um but obviously 28 is quite wide.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people would like a more standard field of view.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: So the Leica Q343 is basically exactly the same as the regular Leica, except it's covered in grey leather this time, not black, and it has a 43mm lens.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the 43mm is, I want to get this right, it's the Sumicron lens, it's an F2 lens, which is Leica's best premium, best designed, most optically perfect lens.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: So there you go.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to spend nine grand on a compact camera with a fixed lens, you can either buy one with a 28mm lens or one with a 43mm lens.
• 25:28
  David McClelland: But but what if I want to spend 20 grand just on the on the body?
• 25:33
  David McClelland: Where where would you suggest I go to then?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, David, if you've got 20 grand burning a hole in your pocket, I can um there's there's a bridge I can tell you to start with.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you might also be interested in the phase one XC40, which is we're laughing.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Phase one is known in the industry for very, very high-end commercial shooting.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um they are expensive cameras because they're not designed for me and thee.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: They're designed for you know real top-end photographers and agency use and things like that.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the phase one XC40 is just a body.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: And to speak in sort of medium format, large format terms, that means it doesn't have a back.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's essentially um a metal thing with a lens on it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it comes with a 40mm lens.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so for medium format terms, that's about 24 mil equivalent.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, bearing in mind phase one is a full fat medium format.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: So Haselblad and Fujifilm use cropped medium format, which is uh 44 by 33 mil, which is not true medium format size, but phase one sensors are full size, and I want to say that's 54 by 40 millimeters.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: So you get a larger image sensor, it's 150 megapixels.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, 20 grand gets you a 40mm lens and a body, but it doesn't take a photograph because you need a back.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: So if you want to buy the back as well, that takes up to$63,000.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: So as I say, it's it's not it's not uh it's not a run-and-gun street photography camera for you and me to sort of bum around Southampton with or go down to the new forest.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's for proper agency work, people who are shooting billboards, editorials, architecture, things like that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yes, the price is very high, but the quality does merit it for specific purposes.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: But um if I had 63 grand, I might buy something else personally.
• 27:12
  David McClelland: Well I just on that lens, and you know, we talk about crop factors and how that all changes, you know, r relative to full frame.
• 27:20
  David McClelland: Was it a 43 mil lens that you mentioned there?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: So on the on the phase one, it's 40 mil, which it's in equivalent terms, that's 24 mil.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: So phase one also does another XC body, body only, with a fixed lens, and that is, I want to say it, 23 mil lens, which is 14 mil equivalent.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really, really wide.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: You can tell these use cases, they're for landscapes, for architecture.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um portraiture.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Not really.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe an environmental portrait on a good day.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: But uh phase one does do dedicated interchangeable lens systems, the XT and the XF, I mean, they're about 50, 60 grand for, you know, but it is a body where you can change the lenses, so it's a more versatile system.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um as I say, it's it's not designed for for you or I or most people listening to this broadcast.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: But if you are such a folk who uses technical cameras and shoots specific kinds of work and you're paid 100 grand to do an assignment, this camera probably gonna pay for itself for you.
• 28:16
  David McClelland: Hey, if you're if you're listening, watching to this and you use a phase one for your day-to-day job, then uh let us know.
• 28:22
  David McClelland: Let us know and uh what you use it for.
• 28:25
  David McClelland: And hey, when we see you next, uh buy us a beer as well.
• 28:28
  David McClelland: That's that that that's the least that you can do.
• 28:30
  David McClelland: It really is.
• 28:31
  David McClelland: Brilliant stuff.
• 28:32
  David McClelland: James, thank you so much for sweeping up the news leaves this month.
• 28:34
  David McClelland: Uh speak to you again very soon.
• 28:36
  David McClelland: Thank you, David.
• 28:36
  David McClelland: Thanks for having me on.
• 28:41
  David McClelland: Steve Clary is a filmmaker and director of photography based in Wales.
• 28:48
  David McClelland: With a focus on capturing action sports and a collection of high-profile commercial clients in his portfolio, he's recently moved into the world for first-person view or FPV drone videography.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: The thing that I do the most, I'd say, is motorsport filmmaking.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, so working within a motorsport environment, running around with a camera, picking off nice shots, doing interviews, shooting cars, going sideways, things like that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I also shoot commercial projects, you know, like adverts and things like that, and also so social media bits and bobs and FPV drones.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: So a bit of a mixed bag.
• 29:28
  David McClelland: I definitely want to come to that, but just to be absolutely clear here, this is uh moving images on the whole.
• 29:33
  David McClelland: Although still images is certainly part of what you've done in the past and and sometimes delivered to, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I shoot still images.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like after this, now I'm heading down to Freshwater West to shoot still images of surfing.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, it's something that I I still do, but I focus more on the video side of things now.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um the photography is more of a hobby that translates into some financial compensation.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: But the filmmaking is where I make you know my bread and butter, basically.
• 30:03
  David McClelland: And just looking through your social media feeds of the kinds of work that you've done and and still do, I think it well, obviously this is what you put on social media, and that's but a portion of what happens in the real world.
• 30:17
  David McClelland: But certainly what you put out there, it seems as though the to categorize your work, there's action stuff, bikes, cars, waves, I think it's fair to say as well.
• 30:26
  David McClelland: And a lot of nature in there as well.
• 30:28
  David McClelland: So you've got the extreme sports, the extreme action, things moving really, really quickly.
• 30:33
  David McClelland: And then you've got really sort of the opposite of that taking place at night, then the the night sky, lots of moon images in there as well that I found particularly captivating.
• 30:44
  David McClelland: What is it that draws you to almost the opposite of the action sports?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right, so this is a mad story, like quite a mad story.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_04: I when I was studying in university, I had uh a little car.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: It was a uh Suzuki Ignis.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's basically a Holmegaan special that they did to allow the Ignis to race in, I think it was WRC2 or junior WRC, I think it was.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_04: So they made this Ignis, and I I had one of those.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: And near to where I used to live, there was a rally stage called Brechfa.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I could get in there in the night.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: In the night, you were fine.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: You could get in there and you could drive around in your car on the on the rally stage.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: And like, so I used to do a lot of that, and then while I was out there driving around, handbraking my car around corners, sliding it and things, so I'm like, oh well.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_04: I started taking my camera kit with me and taking pictures of the stars and the moon and things like that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because I just I get out of the car and I just soak it all up, and I was like, well, you know, and I just stuck it was just like natural progression.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I tied the two things together, so it was hacking the car around like a lunatic in the woods, and then being really peaceful, taking long exposures of the stars, so it's complete polar polar opposites, but that's how I started getting into Astro and taking pictures of the stars and the moon and things like that.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's just spending a lot of time in the forest hammering cars around at night.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I just fell in love with taking pictures of like the moon and the stars.
• 32:13
  David McClelland: I noticed on your Instagram, I think it was you saw some uh some of the Aurora Borealis, and in the UK, certainly, we were incredibly fortunate and still are this year 2024, with the amount of solar activity that means that in all parts of the UK, really not just the you know Scotland and the north of England, we've been able to get some incredible shots.
• 32:34
  David McClelland: And and I saw some that you took.
• 32:36
  David McClelland: I think it was with your smartphone, wasn't it?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: I went out with the car, and um again, but this time it was around the Bracken Beacons, just driving round the Bracken Beacons.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_04: I knew it was gonna come, but I stopped the car and got out, and I was like, oh my god, look at this.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's like Iceland.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: You could the half of the sky was just dancing and glowing, it was incredible.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I what I've been doing a lot of times is uh like I used to shoot a lot with a camera all the time.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'd always have a you know a high-end mirrorless camera on me.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas nowadays, like I'm finding I'm using my phone a lot more.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know, um, it takes good enough pictures.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: And for stuff for things like social media use, I just take my phone and put it on a tripod and away to go.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's I think I like the challenge of shooting on a phone as well, because it's slightly more difficult and it's harder to get good results with a phone than it is, you know, a mirrorless camera.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: I think I I like the challenge as well.
• 33:30
  David McClelland: You know, unfortunately, smartphones are not all that good at taking images uh of of action and when it comes to things like waves and bikes and cars that you tend to uh capture.
• 33:42
  David McClelland: There's a real skill in being able to do that, certainly to the commercial level uh at which you operate.
• 33:49
  David McClelland: Um, how did you get started in that line of work?
• 33:51
  David McClelland: I mean, you mentioned cars, uh sounds as though they've been a bit of a passion of yours for uh for a long time.
• 33:57
  David McClelland: Was that your way in kind of following your your passion and then wanting to capture that in some way?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, bizarrely, I didn't actually start shooting covers.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what happened is I was shooting a lot of uh action sports, like surfing and things like that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I started by shooting my friends in Pembrokeshire surfing.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I was out every day instead of being in uni, or even when I was in uni, I'd be in a lecture, and then my mates would text me being like, oh, it's gonna pump in like an hour.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_04: I put my hand up in the lecture.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'd be like, Can I leave?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_04: I've got to go and shoot surfing.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_04: And they'd all they were always super accommodating, like my lecturers Susan Drake and Brad Aggersburg.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: They were like, Yeah, Steve, go get out the door, go.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I just run out of this class, and everyone's like, Where's he going?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and I've yumm, gone down the beach and just filming surfing.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_04: And that led on to doing some work with an action sports camera company called Drift Innovation.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I ended up doing the tour with Drift Innovation, so traveling around Europe when I finished as a student, and one of the events that they we were covering during that tour was the World Rally Cross Championship.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it was actual the European Rally Cross Championship at the time.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: So that gave me my foot in the door with motorsport, but it was off the back of action sports, really, that gave me the foot in the door at motorsport, and then I met a TV director called Steve Saint, and then it just went crazy.
• 35:25
  David McClelland: Those moments when a meeting, you know, one thing leads to another leads to another, then you meet somebody who just takes you on another journey entirely.
• 35:33
  David McClelland: I love tracing back people's journeys and understanding what those forks in the crossroads were, or or just those choices or chance meetings.
• 35:42
  David McClelland: Um I I like to talk about turning points in in people's lives, in people's career.
• 35:48
  David McClelland: And you had a you had a life pre-photography and filmmaking, but then some something happened.
• 35:55
  David McClelland: I I don't know what that is, but I I would like to know what what was it and what was it that then made you follow through on that moment?
• 36:02
  David McClelland: Because we all have moments when we realise things, but not everyone then follows through and does something about it.
• 36:09
  David McClelland: So what was that moment for you?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: It all started when I signed up to university at the University of Wales Trinity St.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: David, but I didn't sign up to the course with the right mind frame.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: The the mind frame I signed up to the courses, I'm going to get three years funded of getting drunk, partying, and just being a student.
• 36:32
  David McClelland: I don't think you're alone in that, Steve, by the way.
• 36:35
  David McClelland: I I remember that mindset plenty from a good few years ago now.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: So that that was my my mindset going into it was I'm gonna have three years and I'm just gonna live.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: And but that's not what happened.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: When I signed up for university and picked up a borrowed camera, I just fell in love with it and I was consumed by it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_04: So like I didn't drink, I didn't go out partying, and all of my money was spent on fuel to go to shoots, to shoot things, and and then it just went from that.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: But but prior to joining university, I worked like all sorts of jobs.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_04: I worked as an electrical engineer, um, testing uh medical equipment, I worked for the Welsh Assembly government, uh, I worked for animal health, uh, worked in a Ford dealership, did all these very varying jobs, and then once I picked up a camera, everything changed.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_04: It literally, it was like, and one of the main changes, you say like the the turning points, one of the turning points for me, the biggest one, was being in a lecture with uh one of my lecturers, Brett Agersburg.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: And it was as if a light bulb went off in my head one day.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: It was like I'm sitting there, and and I think we were talking about Nokia or Microsoft or something like that, and we were talking about the synergy between those two at the time because Nokia partnered with Microsoft to build Windows phone, and and like I was quite excited by that because I'm like quite tech oriented, and I reached out to Nokia and then they started like sending me phones and I started meeting up with them and talking to them about things.
• 38:06
  David McClelland: And they were really innovative with the camera technology in their phones at the time as well, weren't they?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: So it were it really like it worked because I was really into Windows and had done quite a lot with Microsoft leading up to that.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: They had that wonderful phone, I think it was the Lumia 920.
• 38:22
  David McClelland: I remember it well.
• 38:23
  David McClelland: Yes, I I reviewed that one of the titles I was working for at the time.
• 38:26
  David McClelland: Really, really solid phone.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, what a bit of kit.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what I mean?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and even today, that camera, the I think it was a 42-megapixel camera that they sensor that they put on it, they would stand up with the modern cameras.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: It really would.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: It was that good.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, that that's where I started really, is the the light bulb moment was talking to Brad Agersburg, and he was like, why don't you just reach out to Nokia and tell them what you're you're you know, you're thinking?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I started doing that rather than being like kind of insular and just doing my own thing.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_04: I started reaching out to people and and and speaking my mind about products, services, and things like that.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_04: And it just went, oh my gosh, these people are actually interested in hearing from me.
• 39:09
  David McClelland: I'm curious about what you call that light bulb moment there, and you the the fact that you can identify those moments when there was this realization, like uh a puzzle piece suddenly fitting there.
• 39:21
  David McClelland: I'm wondering, do you know why?
• 39:24
  David McClelland: What what is it about what you understand about yourself, Steve, that made it such that the camera appealed to you?
• 39:34
  David McClelland: Does it do you understand if there's something about you that means that the camera is able to capture something or or it gives you something that you feel as though you can do something with that maybe you weren't able to do before, a sense of expression, perhaps?
• 39:48
  David McClelland: I I don't know.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_04: I th I think so, and I think I think a lot a lot of it had to do with I was I was brought up in like quite a rural community, it's uh a small town with 14,000 people uh that live in it.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: And in school and growing up, the pinnacle of business uh was a company called Castet Howell, which are a food wholesale company.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: And like when you're in a town and like the pinnacle of business, and what everyone thinks is like the coolest thing in the world, is like a food wholesale guy.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: For me, that was kind of like suppressed any dreams that I had.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I was kind of suppressed that that environment I feel like suppressed me quite a bit growing up in the small town mentality sort of thing.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then when I was speaking to this lecturer and started using a camera and thing and things like that, and reaching out to people and taking and filming short videos and taking pictures and watching them go off on social media and people really like what I'm doing, it was always like, whoa, maybe I won't have to work for Brian Castle Howell.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, maybe I can go and do something that's different, you know, and that and I think that that was the the big thing for me.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, okay, I'm from a small town in Kamarden, but now we've got the internet and we've got all these ways of communicating with people.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: I can branch out and I can do stuff all over the world and work with people everywhere.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that it gave I had some confidence given to me from Brett to go and do this, and and then I took that confidence and wash off I went with it.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, it was one another moment that was quite defining for me was I shot a surf video.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and I was very, very early to filmmaking at the time, and I edited it with some music, and Carved Surf magazine reposted my video and sent it, sent it out, and I was just like, oh my god, like wow.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, like I've been reading this magazine since I was a kid, and all of a sudden they're posting my content, and I was like, oh my god.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I think all of those little those little wins uh just heightened, just made my brain go, right, okay, we can do this, Steve.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: Let's go.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it gave me this confidence, and using a camera gave me confidence as uh in who I am as a person, you know, like yes, you are Steve and Clary, and you can do whatever you want.
• 42:15
  David McClelland: And it reset your your bar.
• 42:17
  David McClelland: You know, you mentioned the bar that was there where you lived as you as you're bringing up that kind of bar of expectation and whether you felt as though that inspired you or not.
• 42:26
  David McClelland: But finding this other way of expression opened up a a new level for you to uh aspire to, and it seems as though you had really good success in in being able to reach those levels as well and kind of break through that that ceiling that you felt from from where you were growing up.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_04: But the other end of that is like you set yourself, like I'd set myself goals when I started it.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, right, okay, I'm going to the things that I want to achieve in this career, and I'd set myself those.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: And as I went through smashing all of those things down and then reached the top one in 2017, I was like, okay, I've done this now.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what more can I do?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then it became quite challenging, you know.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_04: I had seven years reaching that point, and then once I reached that point, it was kind of, you know, a lot of life changes happened to me at that time as well, but it it kind of threw me a bit because it's like, okay, I've I've set this goal of doing this, I've achieved it, and it's like, what more can I do in this now?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think a lot of it was like a lot of it for me was people when I started in this career, everyone was a bit shocked.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: And they like a few people around me were quite negative about it.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_04: They were like, Oh, oh, I don't know if this is the right idea, and oh, you've you're not interested in filmmaking.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_04: Why are you going to do this?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: You're not interested in photography, you've never I've never seen you use a camera before.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's a very crowded industry.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: How are you going to, you know, find your Your place in this industry and things like that.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: And and like I guess that that helped drive me at the time, you know, like it was like, right, I'm gonna prove all these people wrong, you know.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna I'm gonna smash it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: That chip on the shoulder is a big motivator.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: Hell yes, I feel that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then like when you prove everybody wrong and you do it and you surpass what everybody thought, you know, like extremely surpass it, it's like, yeah, it's a difficult one.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: And like it what what what you mentioned about like realigning, like reassigning new goals and new targets, like I think that's where I'm at at the moment.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in a very I'm in a place of my life where I'm considering a lot of things and looking at things in front of me and being like, right, where am I gonna go now and where am I gonna channel my energy?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's where I'm at right now.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm kind of working things out again.
• 44:47
  David McClelland: On the subject, though, of looking forwards, and this is a really clunky segue that I make no apologies for.
• 44:55
  David McClelland: Uh, among the body of your work, I can see you've been doing a lot of work with drones lately, and in particular, FPV drones.
• 45:04
  David McClelland: Now, for anyone who isn't familiar with, I mean, we all know what drones are now, but for anyone who isn't familiar with FPV drones and how they relate to content creation, uh, enlighten us if you could, Steve.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: So your traditional drone, so the whatever you'd buy from DGI or similar manufacturers, um, has a lot of fail safes, basically.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: And they generally will have one horizon that'll hover on the horizon, it'll have GPSs that'll make sure its location's cool.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: And generally, when you're flying, the drone that has a lot of fail safes on it.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: So you're basically flying almost like a computer game that's got um failsafes on every axis to make sure that everything you know is very simple.
• 45:49
  David McClelland: And they're easy to use so that numpsies like me can stand a fighting chance of flying them.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you basically just put the put the sticks down to the bottom and up you go, and anybody like my my four-year-old son Jackson, you hand him a DGI drone and he's off.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: He knows exactly what he's doing, he can fly it around, and you know, he's quite I can leave him with it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: FPV is a bit different because you don't have any of the fail safes, um, but it allows you to do things with the drone that you wouldn't be able to do with a traditional drone.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: So you can bank, you can dive, you can flip it, you can fit through gaps, you can do a lot more and go a lot faster than you would with a normal drone.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: However, the negatives of doing that is that um you can crash it a lot easier.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: You there's a lot of them don't have any GPS, so if you come down somewhere, you've just got to find it, right?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: Watch through the goggles footage.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and yeah, rather than flying on a phone or on the screen, you have goggles on your eyes, so it's more amazing.
• 46:49
  David McClelland: And and that's what the FPV stands for, isn't it?
• 46:52
  David McClelland: It's that first person view.
• 46:54
  David McClelland: You are wearing this, and it's like you are you have the pilot seat in the drone and where you are looking is is where you can be flying.
• 47:02
  David McClelland: That that sounds like quite an adjustment going from the style of drones, and uh I was I was early on board with drones uh where the first parrots, the parrot AR drones one and two must be 2010, 2011, something like that.
• 47:16
  David McClelland: And you control them with your smartphone, you use the accelerate uh the accelerometer in your smartphone to move them around.
• 47:22
  David McClelland: Obviously, DJI then owned that and and moved it forward an awful lot.
• 47:26
  David McClelland: I've never flown an FPV drone before.
• 47:30
  David McClelland: It feels to me like it is some kind of out-of-body experience.
• 47:35
  David McClelland: How does it feel so to be flying one of those for the first time?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: At first, you feel a bit dizzy when you take off when you're moving around then, but you're also struggling to control it at first because you don't have the muscle memory and your brain hasn't really programmed to the way that they operate.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_04: So when you first take off, you're a bit all over the place.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're standing up doing it, you can find that you've like fall over or move around and things, and that takes a while to adjust.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: It just takes a while for your brain to unlock it a bit.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: But when you do, then you it's like you're like fully immersed and you're not moving around, and it's but yeah, it's it's quite um yeah, it's quite a mad feeling.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: And like I find when I'm flying as well, like if I'm doing something like quite hectic, like chasing a car or filming surfing or something like that, or filming athletes at triathlon, I get like adrenaline because there's because there's no fail safes, and you're working around people, and you've got to be bang on with your flying, your adrenaline level comes up, and I find that I'll be flying, I'll land the drone, and when I've landed, I look at my hand and I'm like, that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: And like I think that that's something that you know, like I'm quite into action sports and things like that.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_04: So that rush is something I'm always chasing, you know.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: So the FPV is it, it's very much like if you've sent it down a huge hill on a mountain bike and you've gone for it, and then you stop at the bottom and you're like, it's the same feeling I get from flying an FPV drone.
• 49:06
  David McClelland: Yeah, it's yeah, it's crazy.
• 49:08
  David McClelland: I mean, I've done virtual reality experiences.
• 49:10
  David McClelland: I've got a pair of cheap virtual reality goggles in my drawer over there.
• 49:15
  David McClelland: And you know, the the first time you get on the roller coaster in VR, it's a moment, and you know, you know you're sat there in your chair, but as the roller coaster leaps over that gap in the tracks, you feel it.
• 49:26
  David McClelland: It it's a physiological experience there.
• 49:29
  David McClelland: So it it's no surprise to me that when you are flying, particularly following action sports as you do, that you are also immersed in that action.
• 49:39
  David McClelland: Your body is also responding physiologically to what your brain, to to what your eyeballs certainly are are telling your brain.
• 49:47
  David McClelland: Uh, it must be it must be such a trip.
• 49:49
  David McClelland: And as a professional filmmaker, DOP, is there now, do you get the sense an increasing amount of work for people who are able to do what you do, particularly with drones, and particularly with regards to action sports, following those with capturing them with an FPV rig like you have?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, definitely.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like um, because it's it's still a very much minority thing FPV is.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's growing, the industry industry's growing for sure, with like some of the new products, like the NEO coming out, the DGI NEO, that's allowing people more accessibility into FPV because it's a small little drone, you can buy a couple of DJI bits of kit and you're away.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so the popularity is increasing, but it's still very much a niche uh within drones and within content creation, because the the progression to get to it uh to the ability to be able to fly with athletes and things like that, it's not just like a DGI.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_04: You can pick one up and you can fly with an athlete, you can with anybody can with a mini three or a mini four or something like that.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_04: With an FPV, you crash a lot when you start.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, a lot.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like you crash over and over, and you use simulators on the PC and you crash a lot on those.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: So once you actually get it though, and you're able to track athletes and things, it really offers up something different in filmmaking than a traditional drone.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_04: You can get closer.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like you're everything feels like a computer game to the viewer, especially when you film cars and you're behind a car.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: It literally feels like you're playing Colin McRae because you're directly behind the so, but yeah, it's a bit it's a bit different.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it does definitely offers up different opportunities.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like last week I was filming with uh some free runners in Cardiff in a free running academy, and they were jumping around poles and things like that, and and it's given them a perspective that they've never been able to have before.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: Something chasing them up the obstacle, jumping off, flying through the air with them.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's really opened up new possibilities in filmmaking.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_04: Gosh.
• 52:01
  David McClelland: Listen, Steve, we'll we'll leave it there for now, but absolutely fascinating to hear about your story into the profession, about your time at university there.
• 52:11
  David McClelland: And then uh I think the whole FPV drone world is is fascinating.
• 52:16
  David McClelland: Awesome.
• 52:17
  David McClelland: Have a good run, David.
• 52:18
  David McClelland: Sa-da.
• 52:22
  David McClelland: Thanks again to Stephen.
• 52:23
  David McClelland: We'll post links to his socials in the show notes.
• 52:29
  David McClelland: Now, let's talk about London 2025.
• 52:33
  David McClelland: That might sound like a sporting event, but in fact, it's where the photography and video show in-person event will be taking place at the Excel Centre in London between March the 8th and the 11th.
• 52:43
  David McClelland: But after a decade-long run at the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham, why the change now?
• 52:49
  David McClelland: And what will it mean for visitors?
• 52:51
  David McClelland: I'm here to put your questions now to event director Ruth Folkard.
• 52:55
  David McClelland: Hey Ruth, good to see you.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, David.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Good to see you too.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really good, thank you, really good, apart from the torrential weather.
• 53:04
  David McClelland: It's been biblical for the last last few days, um, I think pretty much wherever you are in the UK, to be fair.
• 53:10
  David McClelland: However, we're looking forward to the other side of winter and uh moving forward to the spring, spring 2025, when the photography and video show, of course, returns, but this time it's moving to London for 2025.
• 53:25
  David McClelland: So, as I say, I'm here to put some questions to you that I know you've been receiving on social media.
• 53:30
  David McClelland: Uh, and I know that uh internally you would have been talking about this for for months, even before the announcement that the show would be taking a trip to London.
• 53:39
  David McClelland: So uh I guess the biggest question that I've seen people ask you online is why?
• 53:46
  David McClelland: Why is it moving from London when it's become so well established in Birmingham for the last 10 years?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and very understandable that that people would ask that, to be honest.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're first of all, we're really excited to take the show to London, and I guess the the what I would say initially is that of course it's not always going to be in London, it's no it's going to be alternating, so it will be back at the NEC in 2026 and 2028.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we've been, as you said, we've been talking about this for a long time, and you know, we really we look into all our visitor statistics and so on really carefully um uh after each show.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing we'd really noticed is that we weren't getting as many people from um London and South East area as we would have liked.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we're getting lots and lots of people from across the country, which is fabulous.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we we weren't getting that as many people as we felt we should be from London and South East, because we know there's a big concentration of photographers, videographers, content creators in that um in that area, and um we wanted an opportunity to bring the show to them as well.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think in some cases, you know, there's probably a bit of a an M25 mental block thing going on, you know.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that's that's really the reason for it to bring the show to that audience.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our exhibitors are always asking us to bring in new people to the show, younger people to the show as well.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we think obviously we want to see as many as many regular faces as as possible, but um, but yeah, to to give it an opportunity to find a slightly new audience and then of course return to the to another.
• 55:18
  David McClelland: I travel into the photography show from the Midlands.
• 55:20
  David McClelland: The NEC is but forty minutes from my front door.
• 55:24
  David McClelland: London, I I know the XL venue very well, uh I have to say, though, and it's got a lot easier over the last three or four, four or five years since that uh well, we used to call it Crossrail while it was being built, but then it got christened the Elizabeth line.
• 55:37
  David McClelland: I think pretty much wherever you're coming into from London, and I either come into Houston or St.
• 55:42
  David McClelland: Pancras, the Elizabeth Line's a a stop or two away, and it does make getting to the Excel an awful lot easier, doesn't it?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think we probably we wouldn't have done it if if not for the opening of the Elizabeth Line.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also in the Midlands, so you know, like I I have the have this have the same uh thing as you, but yeah, so it it's it's made getting to Excel so much easier.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, hopefully those that do travel down from elsewhere in the country will will or up indeed will find uh that getting to Excel isn't isn't uh isn't too bad.
• 56:13
  David McClelland: And I think that leads me on to the next well, um it's not so much a question, but it's just a comment that uh comes in on the social media comments as well, which is with regards to cost.
• 56:24
  David McClelland: And you know, I guess Birmingham uh it it it's a known quantity, you know, because we've been coming to the NEC for so long, we've kind of got a good gauge on how much, if you're staying overnight, do it making a a trip of it, how much one of the local hotels cost and the car parking and all the all the rest of that sort of stuff.
• 56:40
  David McClelland: But there are some concerns about how much that trip to London's going to cost instead.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'd I'd probably start by saying, you know, in terms of ticket prices to the show, they will be exactly the same as they were last time.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we haven't put those up at all.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know that lots of people come in by train, um, you know, which you can get some pretty good discounts if you're working further out and stuff.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what I'd say is it's probably all about planning.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so if people are planning to come to the show, it's worth keeping an eye on, you know, the the train ticketing kind of uh early on.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And for those that drive, I know we always get lots of comments about the cost of parking at the NEC, which we have absolutely no control over.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, obviously there's parking parking at Excel London as well, which is slightly more, but I would say that you know, there's lots of different areas around where you can park for for less.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we will be sending out information about that and have information about it on the website as well.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a there's done such a big area, and because of the good transport connections into Excel, there's there's going to be lots of different options to look at in terms of parking things to to make things more cost effective.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've also recently partnered with a hotel agency, and so on our website there's a hotel map function now.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you can go in and you can see live what the different rates are and and cost.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you can you can really you know drill down and pick something really cost effective as well on the on the accommodation side, because I know lots of people do like to come and spend more than one day at the show.
• 58:08
  David McClelland: So in terms of availability of the tickets for the show, you know, you're talking about booking train tickets and hotels and and all of the planning.
• 58:16
  David McClelland: What about being able to book tickets for the show?
• 58:19
  David McClelland: Uh where when does all that sort of stuff, the first announcements and the tickets being made available happen?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's gonna go live in the middle of October.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that's when we will also announce our first sort of batch of speakers.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's when those all of those will you know be up on the website.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: We'll keep adding to that, of course.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, really exciting.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: It actually it sounded a long way away, but it's actually only a few weeks away.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, um, so anybody that's on the mailing list already, you know, look out for those for those emails with the with the ticket launch.
• 58:51
  David McClelland: And and then in terms of the in-show experience itself, uh obviously there are exhibitors that uh one would hope would still be present at the show in London.
• 59:01
  David McClelland: So some of the big names, for example, who've been launching new equipment since the last photography show.
• 59:07
  David McClelland: Um, what what can you tell us about the exhibitor side, I guess, uh, at this stage?
• 59:12
  David McClelland: And I I I know how these things work, and sometimes some of them won't have confirmed yet, and probably won't until a little bit closer to the time.
• 59:19
  David McClelland: But for visitors to the show, what kind of expectations should they have as to how similar and or different this show in London might be compared with the one in Birmingham?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think layout-wise, for a start, it will feel quite different.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: We've got two main entrances, whereas at the NEC, we would have one main entrance and you'd go into the welcome area and then and then and then through to the show.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: This time we don't have the welcome area because we have this big um the big boulevard that there is at XL.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we've got two main entrances that we can split people um between.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be it'll feel different in terms of the the initial experience, but I think once we get inside, we'll see a lot of familiar names and of course the stages and theatres that we're that we're known for as well.
• 1:00:00
  David McClelland: So what can you say then about the stages this year?
• 1:00:04
  David McClelland: Or well, next year, sorry.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm already in 2025, meaning I keep doing that too, yeah.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so in terms of stages, uh, we will have some of the the usual favourites.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: So behind the lens, we'll have in motion, which is our video stage, we'll have editing and post-production, um, analog, which um we're sort of changing the name for this time.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm calling it all things analog.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and hopefully there'll be some really nice demo uh demo stuff alongside that too.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Photo Live, which is our very, you know, our live demonstration stage.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then in terms of stuff that's new, we're gonna have something called the fundamental stage.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that will kind of replace the the previously paid for masterclasses that were kind of separate, um, that had sort of a lot of the very beginning, you know, real beginner content in, turning pro stuff and sort of those sessions that were separate for pros that will have it'll have all of that content on that stage and more.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: That will be all freely available during the during the whole period of the show.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um that's quite exciting for us to to do that differently.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then we will have Creator Con again.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that encompasses the creator stage and the creator playground, which you know both areas that were have been really popular the last couple of years.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we can't wait to bring those back.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've got some really fun ideas for the creator playground, so that should be really good.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, coincidentally, um there are some things on the Excel campus that kind of link in quite nicely with that.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know they've got the like the friends experience going on, and they've got a few other kind of immersive um experience things coming up, so it should be it should all feel it fits in really nicely, you know.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think people will have a really nice experience when they're there.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and of course, it you know, the the things that our exhibitors put on as well.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Canon always have some amazing stuff going on on their on their stages, and the and you know, we've got Sony and Fuji film confirmed already, and and you know, they always have some really good demos and talks and things on their stages too.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there's all that to consider as well.
• 1:01:59
  David McClelland: Again, probably too early to say at this stage, but from an exhibitor point of view, I I'm not speaking for the photography show at all, but I imagine that one would hope that all of the usual exhibitors that one uh all of the larger players that one would expect would be there.
• 1:02:15
  David McClelland: And you mentioned some that have confirmed already, which is great.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:18
  David McClelland: With the move, perhaps one might expect that there would be some different exhibitors there as well, for whom Birmingham wasn't quite so convenient, but being able to exhibit and and showcase their product services, whatever in London might actually be a new thing for them.
• 1:02:36
  David McClelland: And so visitors might be able to see some new stuff that they just haven't really seen before there.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: And actually for some of those um exhibitors that come in from Europe or further afield, actually, um, you know, London is is a little more convenient in terms of flying in and so on.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so we we've got some that some exhibitors that are back on the show floor who haven't been on uh haven't been with us for a little while, like Three Legged Thing, Rico Pentax, um, One Vision and Um and Hyder, for example.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, there's some new names as well that we're that we're seeing come in.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: A couple off the top of my head would be Avoto AI, Viltrox.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: There'll there'll be loads of exciting new kit.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're you know, we're hearing about stuff already, you know, for all all levels and also you know, across the board of uh photography, video and and the on the kind of content creation side as well.
• 1:03:24
  David McClelland: So just coming back to VXL and and the context in which it is on the uh Docklands east end of London.
• 1:03:31
  David McClelland: I used to live over there once upon a time myself.
• 1:03:33
  David McClelland: I saw uh the Docklands estate being built up from about 1995 when I first moved to moved to Mile End.
• 1:03:40
  David McClelland: Gosh, showing my age a little bit there.
• 1:03:42
  David McClelland: Um but obviously a part of what particularly for those who stay overnight uh and make a bit of an experience of the photography show in Birmingham every year.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  David McClelland: Uh the photo walks, though those things that take place out of hours, if you like.
• 1:03:58
  David McClelland: Uh I mean the lake around uh around the NEC is uh it's lovely.
• 1:04:04
  David McClelland: There's only so many times I want to walk around that and try and take a shot uh a good shot of the fountain in the middle, for example.
• 1:04:10
  David McClelland: I guess the opportunity to go on um some photo walks around what is really quite a striking landscape, uh urban landscape around the Docklands area, would be I I would hope there are some good going to be some good opportunities to do that, and you're gonna have maybe some of the exhibitors or or maybe some of the creators creating those experiences that visitors will be able to engage with over the course of the show.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: As you say, it it does give us a real opportunity because it's so that that uh sort of urban landscape is so much more accessible.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we're we're planning things already um with with exhibitors in terms of photo walks and things.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at a kind of a low-light street photography workshop and things like that, and hopefully, as well as um as well as kind of photo walks, we'd like to w do some more other workshops, or perhaps we'll do some evening widths, um, you know, that sort of thing as well outside of outside of the show hours.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's stuff that's all in the works at the moment.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um don't have any more details to share with you right now, but um but yeah, it's um we're working on some really nice stuff there.
• 1:05:13
  David McClelland: All right, so I guess what I'm taking away from this is that uh it that there's lots of positives to the move to London in terms of bringing in a a new different audience as as well as many that have been coming to Birmingham for a long time as well.
• 1:05:28
  David McClelland: The familiar brands will uh touch wood, we hope, uh, be there, as well as some possibly some new ones as well that are exhibiting in London for the first time.
• 1:05:38
  David McClelland: There's certainly some opportunities for um some different experiences around the show and plan in advance uh to uh make sure that you can you know control those control those costs.
• 1:05:51
  David McClelland: It doesn't have to be uh more expensive if you can book those train tickets and the accommodation in advance.
• 1:05:56
  David McClelland: Any final words from you?
• 1:05:58
  David McClelland: And again, you've I'm sure seen the the questions and comments that people have put to you on social media.
• 1:06:05
  David McClelland: I've done my best to reflect those in the chat that we've had.
• 1:06:08
  David McClelland: But is there a kind of final word that you would leave to those who might be, you know, worried, frustrated, or just a just a little bit um not really knowing what to expect from it?
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think what I'd say is that our plan really is, you know, all of these, you know, the new people that come to the show and the new exhibitors that come to the show as well.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: We hope that they will see it and then go, oh, it all makes sense now, it's amazing.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they want to come to Birmingham as well.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the plan is to do it to kind of grow both um both locations really, rather than you know, you know, us our plan certainly isn't just to just to say, right, we're just moving it to London.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: We want the show to be amazing in both locations.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's the that's the feeling we're getting.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people are are getting really excited about it being in London, but also looking forward to how that then translates and and improves the the NEC show as well, because um, you know, we're always looking to do it better every time.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably the thought I would I would leave you with.
• 1:07:10
  David McClelland: Fab.
• 1:07:10
  David McClelland: Ruth, thank you so much for taking time out to chat with us.
• 1:07:14
  David McClelland: Amongst all of the planning that I know you're doing, uh, we're what, six months away, maybe a little bit less, uh, something like that from when that show.
• 1:07:21
  David McClelland: Sorry, I don't mean to give you kittens about that.
• 1:07:24
  David McClelland: But I'm sure there'll be a lot more uh in terms of announcements.
• 1:07:28
  David McClelland: And like you say, when the tickets do go on sale and that first trunche of speakers and content gets uh gets released, then I'm sure we'll be having chats between now and March next year about uh the things that we can all all look forward to.
• 1:07:42
  David McClelland: But for now, Ruth, thank you very much.
• 1:07:44
  David McClelland: Speak to you again soon.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, David.
• 1:07:49
  David McClelland: And that is all for this month's photography and video show podcast.
• 1:07:53
  David McClelland: Big thanks to Ruth, to Steve, and to James.
• 1:07:56
  David McClelland: Don't forget to do all of the things that podcasts normally ask you to do, and we'd love to keep on growing this show.
• 1:08:02
  David McClelland: So if you like what you hear, then let us know.
• 1:08:05
  David McClelland: Hey, even if you don't, let us know anyway so we can try to make it better.
• 1:08:10
  David McClelland: I am at David McClellan TV on Instagram.
• 1:08:13
  David McClelland: The official show Insta account is at the photography show.
• 1:08:17
  David McClelland: And stay tuned to the photography show Facebook and YouTube pages as well, because that's where we're planning on sharing some more video clips from the podcast.
• 1:08:26
  David McClelland: We'll be back on the first Thursday of next month with more photography and video news and conversations with creatives.
• 1:08:33
  David McClelland: But for now, bye bye!