Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: 25 Years After 9/11, Remembering Charlie Kirk & America’s Free Speech Crisis

Transcript

Normally Podcast: 25 Years After 9/11, Remembering Charlie Kirk & America’s Free Speech Crisis · Normally

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, we are back on Normally the Show with
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Normalish Takes for when the news gets weird.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm Mary Kassem Hamm.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: I'm Carol Markowitz, and we're going to try to not
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: have a super depressing show today, even though we're going
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: to be talking about the 25-year anniversary of 9-11 and
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: the one-year anniversary of the murder of Charlie Kirk. But
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: we're going to be hopeful and forward-looking and, you know,
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: light as possible.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: At times.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: If we can.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, these are serious topics, but I think the
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: way you and I have always approached life and politics
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: and everything is with optimism and with humor.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: And we have to do that in, I think, all cases.
• 0:52
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: So 9-11, 25th anniversary. I remember the 5th, by the way.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I think I had just moved there.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: To the dc area shortly before the fifth anniversary thinking
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: back on that how how young that event was at
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Right yeah and it's interesting because i think that it
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: took years for for me personally to get over 9-11
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: for sure um i like i i qualify it as
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: my kind of wake up from 9-11 moment was the
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: 2003 blackout in New York which is two years later
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: it's August 2003 we thought it was another terrorist attack
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: when it wasn't it was this like giant sigh of
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: relief but you know I avoided crowds I didn't like
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: going to public events um It was scary. It was
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: a really scary time to be in New York and D.C.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: And I think that a lot of people felt that.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think people felt it all over the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: United States. And it's hard to explain, just as Pearl
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Harbor would be hard to explain to people who came after,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: that the feeling of vulnerability and shock... was so great
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that our formerly impenetrable mainland America had been attacked in
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: this horrendous disaster movie monstrous way and that we watched
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: it unfold. I think it's hard for those who didn't
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: see it live to understand just how awful that was.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: Especially the Pentagon.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: I remember the days after 9-11, I was best friends
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: with my now husband and he had a TV and
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: I didn't.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And we were just watching it on loop.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: And the thing we kept saying was, how did they
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: get the Pentagon? I mean, you know, we were young
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: and we didn't know anything. And we thought... you know,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know, the Pentagon has missile. I don't know.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know what we were thinking, but we were like,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: how is it possible.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: To attack the Pentagon like that? And we were really
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: shook up by it.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It's funny that you say that, Carol, because I think
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: that I also, I had a TV, but it did
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: not have cable.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: So I didn't have nothing. I was at the University
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: of Georgia.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I was, you know, but at the time, I remember
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: after the news broke, we all thought something's going to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: fall out of the sky on all of us at
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: any moment. Right.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: You didn't feel safe even if you know retrospectively that
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: you were. But I didn't have a TV either. I
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: went to a friend's house. My how times have changed.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: The information flow is very different.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I was refreshing Instapundit. That was how I was getting
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: the news that day on my computer that I think
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: I had just moved into my apartment. I feel like
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't have a lot of furniture now that I'm
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: thinking about it. I didn't have a desk. I was
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: sitting on my floor refreshing Instapundit and finding out what
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: had happened. And our comedian that we enjoy, Nate Bregazzi,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: has this whole thing about how he was working security
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: at a water treatment facility.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: In Tennessee, in his small town in Tennessee.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: And he makes jokes about how everybody was worried that
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: that was going to be a target after 9-11. And
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: he was like, retrospectively, maybe they weren't going to go
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: for the water treatment facility in Tennessee.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Small town in Tennessee. But at the time, we thought
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: anything was possible. Yeah, we didn't we didn't know any
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: better at the time.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And I do think, though, I have various quibbles along
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the way with Homeland Security and TSA and what have you.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I think Abe Greenwald is very good about writing regularly
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: that we're very fortunate that work was done to protect
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: us that actually has protected the homeland in a pretty
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: amazing streak since that time when we felt that any
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: day something was going to happen again.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And that sensation lasted for years.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: And I think that the young people now who are like, oh,
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: you guys were so traumatized by 9-11.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, we really actually were.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: It was a An event that changed the way that
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: we saw the world, the way that we saw our country.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: It was also, and I've said this in things that
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: I've written, but, you know, Americans are so trusting. And
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: that was a moment of, wow, we really just can't
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: trust people. We can't just trust that people mean us
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: no harm because sometimes they do.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: And even so, the American public, despite the op waged
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to claim that America was deeply Islamophobic in the wake of.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: 9-11, it was not. It wasn't.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: In fact, the pressure was almost universal to voice among
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: public officials and just in general that Islam is a
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: religion of peace.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We don't blame everyone. And, you know, almost to like,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Too much to a comical degree. George W.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Bush, president at the time, went out of his way
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: all the time to say things like Islam means peace
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: and to say that our quarrel was not with Muslims worldwide.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: It was just with those who would do us harm.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do find it.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Disturbing that 25 years on you have a general sort
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of elite opinion bubble that is very inclined to blame
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: any attack on america on the fact that america does
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: bad things america bad therefore these 19 terrorists uh who
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: went to all these lengths to indiscriminately.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Kill 3 000 civilians um you know, they had some concerns.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Did you read.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Bin Laden's letter where he talks about climate change and
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: how we're responsible for it? I mean, this is, and
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: if you don't know what I'm talking about, it was
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: last year that Gen Z got very interested in a
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: letter that there's no evidence that bin Laden actually wrote
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: this letter. And it sort of does not read like, um,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: an Islamist at all. Again, he addresses things like climate
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: change in it. And Gen Z got really into it
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: and was like, wow, I get it. I get why
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: he did it. I get why he wanted to hurt
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: the United States. There's also the, in retrospect, changing.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Of what the reasons were.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: At the time, the reasons for the attack that Islamists
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: would give was that the United States had bases in
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia. You know, the idea that this had anything
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: to do with, for example, Israel, zero.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: It was never mentioned.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: It's only now that it's like, oh, America got attacked
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: because of Israel. Or if you want to get real crazy,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: America got attacked by Israel.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: So, yeah.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Now, it's particularly to see people coming into official, sometimes
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: federal office who are of the America kind of had
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it coming ilk. is disconcerting. There was a dust up
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: this week because the lead counsel for Zoran Mamdani, Ramzi Qasem,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: chief counsel, he had at various times represented as a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: defense lawyer, Al-Qaeda affiliated people, including the brother of one
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: of the hijackers. And he was at the signing of
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a 9-11 proclamation by Mamdani and was given one of
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the ceremonial pins. Now, there were several pins given to
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: several people. He's not the only one who received a pin,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: but it does seem that this administration is not at
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: all interested in being as sensitive as they should about this.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: And in fact, I would argue they're doing, he's doing
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: this on purpose to say, we have an outpost here
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in this administration.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And the conspiracy stuff is definitely concerning.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: The way that it's brushed off and the ironic way
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: that the young talk.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: About it, it worries me about the future. Now, I
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: You know, young people have always had that detached irony.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: And, you know, I remember being a punk rocky teenager
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: and feeling all those same kind of like I don't
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: care about anything feelings.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Um, but it really wasn't that long ago.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: It just, this, this is so still fresh in our
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: minds and we're still living with so many repercussions of it.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: I think that, um, you know, we had this, the,
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: the wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan and were they
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: right or wrong or the way that they were waged
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: right or wrong, but they were direct results of 9-11.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Right. And again, the thing that I resent is all
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: of these people, many of them in public office now,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: many of them in America, who equate the indiscriminate targeting
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: of American civilians with America's desire to wage traditional warfare
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to prevent that happening again. It's the same exact thing
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: as you see post-October 7th, right?
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Indiscriminate targeting of civilians by Hamas, at which point you
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: retaliate with more traditional warfare that's much more sparing of
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: civilians and they all flip out. In the parlance of
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: therapy speak and abusive relationships, this is called reactive abuse.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: when you do something horrendous and then you call out
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: the person on their reaction, do the horrendous thing you did.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: That's what that is. And I think you see a
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: lot of that among politicians. And you'll probably see, unfortunately,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of it on the 20th anniversary, which I'm
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: bracing for in some of these statements from left-leaning people.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I want to note also that we should engage with
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: like what, Actually, radical Islam does hate about us because Qasem, who's,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: as I said, Mamdani's lawyer, a couple of days after
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: September 11th is saying the resentment these terrorists felt towards
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the United States was rooted in political realities shaped by
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: our country's policies. Our government has supported dictatorial and repressive
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: regimes across the Middle East and elsewhere for years. in
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: total disregard of the aspirations and better interests of the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: indigenous populations of those regions.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Ad hoc nonsense. Right. Yeah. Like, just not, no, mm-mm. Yeah.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: It's just a rationalization.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: A father of intellectual radical Islam, such that it is
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: an intellectual movement who inspired al-Qaeda and inspired Osama bin Laden.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: He hated America because he came and studied in Greeley, Colorado.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: By the way, a dry county at the time.
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: 1949.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: So it's not like it was a raucous place. He
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: came and studied there and he found the green lawns
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: distasteful and greedy.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: How dare we? He found the sock hops in said
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: dry county to be disgusting. too sexual.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: The ladies with their knee-length skirts were too much for
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: him in 1949.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: It is the freedom.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: It is the freedom to live the life you want
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to live in America that ticked him off and made
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: him create this destructive force, which later in 2001 killed
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: 3,000 people.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And the fact that American freedom and the way
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: that we organize our society is a beacon of hope
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: to others around the world that others want this, people
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: want this, people want to move towards this. And so
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: it's interesting that a lot of the conspiracy theorists now on,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: on about all kinds of things, not just nine 11, uh,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: that one of the things that they go for is
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: saying that America is just not that great.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Because you kind of have.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: To, in order to engage in these crazy conspiracy theories,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: you have to first say that what we have here
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: and what we've done here and what we're doing here
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: is not amazing and groundbreaking and something that everybody wants.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: You have to first turn it into something bad. And
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: that's what our enemies do. Yeah.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: One quote from Sayid Kutub, just because I find it
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: humorous and lame every time I run across it. They
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: danced to the tunes of the gramophone and the dance
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: around waist. Because the American girl is well acquainted with
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: her body's seductive capacity.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: There is no record that Sayid Kutub ever had a relationship. Surprise, surprise.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: So that's what.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: The left in the streets. The rationalization is from this guy.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: That's the guy.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: And you and I saw this coming years ago. We've
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: told the story on the show before, but one of
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: the first things that you and I ever did together,
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: it turns out it was 2007.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: We just looked up the video and I thought it
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: was earlier.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: I thought it was like 2003 where we went to
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: ground zero. We went to the nine 11 site and,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: And we counter-protested the 9-11 truthers.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And do you want to tell our audience what we did?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: So we put together flyers that said the truth about 9-11,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: because even then, shortly afterwards, the truther movement had a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: lot of momentum. And, you know, Popular Mechanics wrote a
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: whole book debunking all of their ideas. And we did
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: feel like it needed to be confronted. So we made
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a little flyer. And we handed it out at Ground
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Zero that said the truth about 9-11. And then when
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you opened it, it was like 19 Muslim hijackers threw
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: some planes into some buildings.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: And that is the truth about 9-11. Because even then
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: you needed.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: To be clear about that.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And by the way, I just want to say that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: video is like pretty ahead of its time as a
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: format for internet video.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's roll that.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Just walking by here all the time and seeing these
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: crazy truthers, I really felt like we should counter them.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I think very few people believe that stuff. But on
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the other hand, you have to have people willing to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: stand up and tell the truth.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: Put together this pamphlet, which basically just told the short
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: story of what happened on 9-11.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: What is the shocking truth?
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: It was 19 Middle Eastern hijackers flew planes into our
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: buildings and blew up 3,000 of our people.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: There was a report in the BBC that came out today.
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: 9-11 demolition theory challenge, so I printed this out at
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: work to hand out.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: To these guys.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, very good.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Did you get any takers on that?
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I handed it to the three of these guys.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: They're reading it over here right now.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: They were, like, giving us thumbs up when they realized
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: that we weren't truthers, and they were really excited about it.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: We really had a great reaction.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: And even, like, the really, really smelly truthers couldn't get
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: in our way, you know?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I just don't think it's right that they're
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: out here today. At least be across the street or something.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's a transit hub.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: It's busy.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And you know what? They should have some respect for
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: the site. We look so young.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: We do.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: What about the future? Where are we going?
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Where do you think the country heads after this 25
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: year anniversary?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Are we hopeful?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I think one of the things we still have
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: going for us is that the American military and its
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: members are very clear about the threat and still willing
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to stand up for us. One of the things that
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: concerns me as my children get a little bit older,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and I'll actually wonder how you've handled this, is how
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to talk to them about it so that they really
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: understand the stakes and without freaking them out or giving
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: them something they can't handle. Um, but I think there
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: are uplifting stories from that day where you can talk
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: about the heroism and it, you know, with younger children,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: they can hear a little bit about it. Like the
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Wells Crowther story, which is the 30 for 30 by, um,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on the man with the red bandana.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: He saved 18 lives, I believe.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Some of those stories to me are the ones that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I like to start with with my kids because they have,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: you know, a redemptive part of it.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: But I wonder how you've dealt with communicating that to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: your older children.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: That's been the.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: The overall picture that we give also, which is bad
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: things happen.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Look around for the good people. So many people helped.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: One of my favorite columns that I've ever written was
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: five years ago on the 20th anniversary of 9-11.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I wrote about a.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: An officer, a police officer who was stationed outside. It
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: was then called the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. Lifelong New Yorkers
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: will always call it that. It's called the Hugh Carey
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Tunnel now. And he was so dead set on looking inside,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: like just his eyes would pierce. every car and he
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: was so just focused and we felt so safe because
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: he existed. And I just wrote up this whole thing
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: about all the people that helped, not just on the day,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: but in all the days after that, the people who
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: dug up the rubble and got, you know, terrible illnesses
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: because of it, the people who went to war and
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: defended us, all of that. And I heard that the
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: officer that I wrote about saw the piece and did
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: not want We did not want, you know, any additional praise,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: did not want to be named. And I think that's
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: just so beautiful. Yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: First responders are a different breed.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: You see it illustrated so clearly on that day with
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: hundreds of firefighters running directly into the buildings. Also, I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: always think of Rick Rescorla, who was the Morgan Stanley employee, who, again,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the unsexy work of emergency preparedness he had been doing
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: by making his fellow employees do drills to get down
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the stairs. And I'm sure those employees before.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: That, why are you doing this, Rick?
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: And on that day, singing, he was, I believe he
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: was British born, singing all sorts of ditties to them
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: to keep them rallied as they went downstairs. He got
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: every one of those employees out but 13 who perished
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and he was last seen going up to help Again,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: he had been wary after the original World Trade Center
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: bombing and had prepared for this. And he saved, I believe,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: thousands of lives because they had tons of employees up
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: there getting them out of that building. And I just
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: there are hopeful stories there and amazing things that people
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: did not do black pill. But there is a part
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: of me that especially after seeing the reaction to a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Bank of America VP being fatally stabbed. in Times Square
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a week and a half ago with a lot of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the dark parts of the internet saying, oh, you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: she was a Bank of America vice president, which... insane,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: insane take. She doesn't deserve to be murdered by a
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: mentally ill person stabbing her in the middle of the street. Yeah.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: There's a part of me that fears that if this
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: happened today, much of the conversation would be like, well,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: how much were those people making.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: On 4105 in the North Tower? Like who'd they work for?
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just to be, you know, to end this on
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: a more positive note, I don't mind that kind of
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: stuff getting exposed.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: It's crazy that these people exist and they have these
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: insane opinions, but the majority of.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Americans are not those people.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And the majority of Americans don't even know that people
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: say stuff like that on the internet. I think that's
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: like one of the things we, we always need to remember.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: I talk about my normie husband a lot. He has
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: no idea what we're talking about 90% of the time
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: on Twitter and So let's just remember that Americans are
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: good and they would be shocked to find out that
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: people say stuff like that. So I think if, God forbid,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: anything close to something like this happened ever again, I
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: think we would once again unite and help and be heroes.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: On that note, let me just quickly plug, if you
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: want to experience a very uplifting and normie commemoration of
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: 9-11 on this 25th anniversary, I work for the Travis
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Mannion Foundation on the board.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I sit on the board and we do a 9-11 Heroes.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Run every year, which honors military first responders, people who
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: were there that day, the victims of 9-11. It is
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: a very family-friendly way to introduce kids to the notion
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: and to meet all of the first responders and military
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: folks in your neighborhood who are serving you all the time.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: So 911heroesrun. com. It is a great time. You will not
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: regret it. I love that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: All right, we're going to take a short break and
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: be right back with more on Normally. We are back
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: on Normally where we have another sad anniversary. A year
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: ago today, Charlie Kirk was murdered at Utah Valley University.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: And tyler robinson is accused of his murder he is
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: uh going to trial um and a year later the
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: conservative movement is not in a great place and the
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: charlie loss is still being felt very much.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah i i had hoped that uh out of that
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: sadness would come a rallying and uh I think you
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: initially saw it in people's very well-meaning embrace of faith
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and getting together at the gigantic memorial service and expressing
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of that.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: But it took a turn very quickly, quicker.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Than post 9-11, which was quite patriotic and robust in
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the American response for the.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Unity lasted for a little bit. Not so with the
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk story. murder.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And to this day, I think I haven't I was
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: not super close with Charlie, but I knew him and
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: had worked with him over the years, particularly when he
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: was younger and coming into the business and liked him
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: very much. In fact, I like him more after like
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: having had more exposure to his videos and kind of thought, oh,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I missed out a little bit while he was here.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And I don't think I've fully processed how scary it
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: is that speaking on a college campus with ideas that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: one dude.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Doesn't like can cause this and then a lot of
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: people won't.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Stick up for you right not just people but like
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: your best friends like a lot of people that you
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: are very close with people that you have defended people
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: that you stood up for um can easily turn on
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: you and I I think that is at least in
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: part because he let a lot of people in and
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: that's for better or worse. You know, when your circle
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: is big, you're going to have some negatives in it.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: And that's where, that's where he was. Um, he had,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: he was a force, really a force for conservative politics.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: And that meant that he was growing the tent and,
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: and letting more people in. And some of those people
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: are very clearly bad. Yeah.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Um, Of course, as you as you say, we should.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Not over over amplify the jerks online about this.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: People in various places are referring to it as the
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Kirkiversary and making awful content about it. including, by the way,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: a professor at UC Irvine who made reference to Nick
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Shirley speaking at Harvard and said something to do the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: funniest thing just before the Kirkiversary. And we'll talk about
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: free speech, too, but I'm not sure it's a free
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: speech issue anymore. You, in your capacity as a professor
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: on a campus... are advocating for the murder of speakers who.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Disagree with you on politics. I think we've we've exited
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: that area. That's right. It's so outside.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: The realm of normal conversation or thought and that's the
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: thing I think that like when people talk about cancel
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: culture we weren't talking about you know the people that
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: were getting canceled in that time period were saying things
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: like kids don't need to be wearing masks it wasn't
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: It's not quite we weren't nobody was saying you should
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: kill that person.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: And the rest of us are saying, no, no, don't
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: cancel this person.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: No, it was right to cancel people who say horrible,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: evil things like that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: That's not cancel culture.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: That directly pertain to your job, by the way. Right.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Woo!
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Should we roll the clip of what we said a
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: year ago and see where we are now?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: A person who could take up his mantle in hell
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: is Erica Kirk. So Erica Kirk gave a stunning, strong, forceful,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: beautiful tribute to her husband and his work just days
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: after he was killed.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: She's fantastic. She really is. She clearly has a fierce faith.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: it will serve her well as she moves forward.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: A lot of not low profile, not rando people on
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the left were coming at her for supporting her husband's
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: vision and organization in the, in the wake of his
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: death and Ooh, looking a little mad about it.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: She should be mad about it, guys.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: She should be mad about it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: And if she wants to channel that energy into supporting
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: the thing that her husband died doing, she should do that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. That's a perfect way to mourn, actually.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: I thought her speech was incredible, how strong she is.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: And look, I'm full of anger.
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: I could just imagine where she is and the fact
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: that she was able to To deliver those beautiful words
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: so shortly after his murder. And, you know, people are like, oh,
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: we need somebody to unite us.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: She has been a uniting figure in this terrible, terrible time.
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: I'm, you know, fully supportive of her taking on.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be on widow defense duty for like
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the next two years for Erica Kirk.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Like she may never know who I am, but I'm
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: going to be out here like y'all.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Need to shut up.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: She's doing a great job. She's fantastic. She's getting it done.
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: It's a hard job in front of her and she's
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: approaching it with with really impressive.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Strength so did we ever imagine that so much of
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: the attacks on erica would be coming from you know
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: friends of charlie's uh people who say that they loved
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: him and care about him did we ever think that
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Candace Owens would implicate Erica in his murder and that
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: she would gain millions and millions of followers because of this.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: I don't think we ever saw that coming.
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, As we noted before, this is something that
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: should transcend politics, period, where everyone should gather together and say, oh,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: people should not be killed on college campuses for disagreeing
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: with people. In the absence of that, you would think
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: at least political allies and friends could rally behind the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: widow of this man murdered live for people to see,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: who left two young kids and a wife behind.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: And yet.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I think there were some hints on the left originally
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: that that was going to be their tack was going
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: to go after Erica Kirk. And then they kind of
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: laid off because they were like, I guess Candace is
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: going to do it for us. Right. That's she's she's
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: going to handle that. And this is the this is
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: the thing that worries me about online culture is that
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of I think formerly normal people get drawn in. Yeah,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: this sort of soap opera, true crime, real people's lives
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and real people's pain.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And it's not good.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: Friends don't let friends fall into that trap.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Today, FIRE released their college free speech rankings. And it's,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: you know, interesting because Charlie Kirk was specifically somebody who
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: went to college campuses and made speeches and answered questions
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: and engaged. And so many colleges are just not interested
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: in anything like that happening on their campuses. I have
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: to tell you, in first place is University of Chicago,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: which I see as a very free speech focused university.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: Their overall grade, according to FIRE, is B minus. So
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: the first place college across the whole country, according to FIRE,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: has a b minus in free speech and that's not great.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: No um Sort of surprised to see Georgia Tech at three.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: That's impressive.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Vanderbilt representing the SEC in that top five. Glad to
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: see it.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Much of the SEC, I have been very grateful, has
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: been really good on the encampment issue and on making
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: sure that Jewish students can live in peace on campuses. Right. Yeah.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: But like the idea, the idea that the top is
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: a B minus.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Well, it's because 29 percent of students at the University
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: of Chicago, the number one free speech college in the country,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: say using violence to stop someone from speaking on campus
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: is acceptable.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, and.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: It's qualified by, at least in rare cases, like, yeah,
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: I hope it's.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Not every speaker that you think, you know, but that's
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: an astronomical number. And I know that that number only
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: goes up from here. So again, the best school has 29%
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: of students thinking it's okay to use violence.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: And here we are a year later where....
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Somebody was murdered for their views on a college campus.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: What are we doing here that college students are not
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: able to accept other viewpoints without thinking that these people
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: should be hurt?
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally supposed to be the purpose of college.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Right, right, yeah. To encounter other views. And if you
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: train at it, it becomes part of your life.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: You and I encounter other views all the time.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: All the time.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. 72% of kids at University of Chicago say shouting
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: down a speaker to prevent them from speaking on campus
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: is acceptable.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Again, at least in rare cases.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: 72% think shouting down a speaker is sometimes okay. Like I,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm thinking what, like in rare cases does
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: nothing because what speaker would I think is okay to
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: shout down? There was plenty of speakers this election season,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: you know, in Florida, we had two pretty much open
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Nazis running for election. I still don't think it's okay
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: to shout them down. I still don't think that it's
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: okay to kill them or hurt them or physically injure
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: them in any way. So how do we get to
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: where college kids understand that? And we lost a huge voice.
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: In that direction in Charlie Kerr.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: There is just a unfortunately a generational lack of understanding
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: about what's good about the First Amendment, why it's important.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Offensive speech, why it's important to defend offensive speech, because
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: because of the cancel culture, so many of these students
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: having no foundation in the First Amendment. Right.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Go, well, if I stood up for something offensive, like
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: they're going to cancel me. Why would I do that?
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Um, and so it's important to model that for people,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: but also there needs to be like some remedial work
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: on the first minute, which I think places like university
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of Chicago actually do.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Not just professors because professors don't know either.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I look, every time I write about college campuses,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I say, you know, university of Chicago is one of my,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't know what my daughter's going to
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: end up, but it's one of my top choices for
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: her because of the free speech issue.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. Well, good job to those who are fighting
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: the fight. I know it's hard on college campuses.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I go to college campuses and they're like, ooh, is
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: she a little too much? At Brown, Guy Benson was
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: considered a security threat. He had to have a whole
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: evacuation plan at Brown University.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: That guy, he can sometimes say some crazy things, that
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Guy Benson. They've got a long way to go is
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: They need to climb slowly in the correct direction because
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: we are losing ground. I mean, just as far as
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: intellectual resilience goes, you're creating people and students and professionals
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: that then populate the workplace who have no ability to
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: work with others who disagree with them and just pound
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: people psychologically for doing so. Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: We don't want those people around.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: No, it's not good.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Let's take a short break and be right back with
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: one more segment of Normally All right.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: We are back on Normally with a segment about how
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to be a human in a relationship with Carol and MK.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: This might be a recurring segment because people are really
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: struggling with this.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Do we like to dole out advice a little bit? Yeah,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: we're not perfect, but we have some ideas. Should we
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: start with haircut lady? The haircut lady.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's play haircut. Let's see haircut lady's video.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: She's gone viral.
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: I don't like to be told what to do.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Never have. Never will.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: Don't care who you are. Don't tell me what to do.
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: So if you want me to do something, you're going
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: to have to say the opposite and trick me into
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: doing that. Whatever it is you want me to do.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: But anyway, my husband didn't like my haircut the other day.
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: He didn't say he didn't like it, but in a
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: roundabout way, he did. He said, I got my haircut colored, okay?
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: I come home. He says, hmm.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: What do you mean, hmm? What's hmm mean?
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: He said, much shorter, huh?
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Sure did, obviously.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Does that mean you don't like it or... He said, no, no,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: it's fine.
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: It's fine.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Shorter.
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: If you say shorter one more time, I will buzz
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: my head.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: All off.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Clean off.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: I would not say shorter again, sir. I didn't cut
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: it for you. And I'm also not going to grow
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: it out for you. I don't do it for you.
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: I do it for me. So, I don't know. Is
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: anybody else like this? Or is it just me?
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Bzzz. Bzzz.
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: Bzzz.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm about to do.
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Unpopular opinion? I do look... I try to look good
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: for my husband. It is for him.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: It actually is for him.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: It's important. I don't even know. Also, can you imagine
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: the reverse?
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: A man dying his hair blonde and his wife being like, ooh,
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: what would you do?
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And like, say it again. And I'm going to dye
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: my hair platinum blonde.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: By the way, women edit the way their men look
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: all the time. All the time.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Life effect. There are tons of positive videos about it.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: First of all, I don't want to pile on her
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: too much because as with all internet things, the pylon
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: is disproportionate to what she has done here. And it's
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: very misogynistic in many corners. So like, I think her
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: hair looks very good by the way.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: However, a couple of clarifications. He didn't, he didn't tell
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: her what to do at any point. At no point.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: All he did was not effusively praise her. The change.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: And we want the truth, right? We don't want our
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: husbands lying to us. Like, what do you think?
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She's very quickly angry and defensive about this. And look,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I might be weird. My you and I might be weird.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: My love language is not words of affirmation. I definitely
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I have cleared this with my husband because one of
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the tips for having good relationships is not to talk
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: about your spouse in public in negative ways without like
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: having a discussion with them first.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I cleared this with Steve, but.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I colored my hair one time and I walked in
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: and you could tell it was not his favorite because
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: he couldn't really hide it.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: And I was like, you know, you have a point.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's weird, too. Right. And right.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I think, as you said about the truth, I think
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to be said for a man who
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't lie to you, even when it would benefit him
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to do so.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, right. I don't want to hear flowery untruths.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I want to hear.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: the actual truth I want to hear the truth about
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: how I look I want to hear the truth about
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: you know did you like this dish I made I
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: just why would I want lies like like think about
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: that you you cook something and your husband's like this
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: is amazing and then you keep cooking it because you
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: think he likes it and it's like why would I
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: do that why why would we live like this.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Well and there's there's something to be said for being
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: nice and or not being needlessly mean right But he
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: didn't seem to be needlessly mean. He just was like, oh,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: it's shorter because he's trying to do the thing. She
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: mentions in another video, because people have deep, deep dived
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: on this.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: That her husband's an engineer.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So my guess would be that his personality type tends
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: to lean toward not being able to do the effusive
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: fake thing as an engineer.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: And like, don't take this to the public. It's bad.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: It's not serving you. Exactly.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: There was another story that we were here to talk
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: about where, I mean, basically young people don't know how
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: to meet each other. They don't know how to connect.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: And the story was from the Times of London, why
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: my Gen Z mates don't have boyfriends. And this part
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: stuck out to me. As a 27 year old lawyer
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: friend with excellent cheekbones and a history of being happily
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: boyfriend free said, you're asking for a date to compete
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: with Sainsbury's basics, the quality of my sheets, the depth
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: of conversations I could have with my friends and the
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: new face mask I bought. He is losing to the
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: face mask every time. Ma'am, this sounds like as the
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: kids say, cope. It sounds like cope. It sounds like
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: I don't even need a man. I have my face mask. Like,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: doth protest a bit too much. Yeah, I found this
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: section interesting. So this is from the writer who now
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: says she has a boyfriend, her first ever boyfriend. She's
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: circled back to it is like she says, weirdly traditionalist
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: as a 28 year old.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: She just wants to get married. Right.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: But this is how she reacted on a date earlier
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: in the year. Last year, I went on a date
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: with a gorgeous man who ticked all my boxes. Funny, clever,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: close with his family, capable of asking a follow-up question,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and unusually for a dating app, exactly as advertised. Wow,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: seems like you should stick with that for a bit.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: After a fantastic date, I watched him select the wrong
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: currency at an ATM and felt all interest evaporate on
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: the spot. By the next tube station, I had remembered
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: an improbably early start the next morning and fled. Not
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: my finest moment.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I just.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: What?
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I don't even know. Does that mean the wrong currency?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what that means.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: $ 50 instead of $ 100, I guess pounds in this case.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe so. Is it a Brexit thing? Was she mad
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: that he picked British currency?
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: The tyranny of the ick. Yeah. Ladies, like you can't.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: There's this whole thing where it's like, oh, it gave
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: me the ick and it will be for the tiniest thing.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Right. And it's like, OK, that seems really uncharitable in
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: the way that lady thinks.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What if her husband got the ick
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: from her haircut? Would that be acceptable? Would we be like, oh,
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: you got the ick.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Understandable.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: You wanted a lady with longer hair and this is
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: what happened here. No, we'd be like, that dude is
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: the worst.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: And we hate him.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: And yet women are allowed to get the ick over anything.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Anything.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: And also, I would submit to you that soldiering through
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the ick on the currency at the ATM might be
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: worth it for a gorgeous man who is funny and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: clever and asks follow-up questions. I'm glad she's with her
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: current boyfriend. It seems like it's working for her.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: Sure. Ladies.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: And then the men, of course, are not terribly motivated
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: to jump into this pool either. And one man who's
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: 25 described having given up on dating completely. I'm supposed
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: to be successful, but not work obsessed, confident, but vulnerable
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: and masculine, but not too masculine. I spend most dates
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: trying not to accidentally become a red flag.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: And I understand that feeling.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: And then women are like, where did all the men go?
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Where are they? I don't know where they went.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: Oh, these young people.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I hope this insanity like skips a generation,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: you know, just gets it out in this generation.
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: And then our kids get to be normal and have.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Normal relationships with normal people and We'll be here telling
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: you guys about it in like 15 years.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I know. I think you need practice with real people
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: in real life. Don't close yourself off from them. Soldier
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: through a little bit. Build some resilience. And then don't
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: put all your problems online.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on Normally.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: And you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail.com.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.