Latest / Follow the Leighder / Democracy, the Military, and Military Spouses | Laura O'Dea
Transcript
- Leigh/@followtheleighder: Howdy folks and welcome back to another episode of follow the Leighder. all the way down from San Diego I have brought to you to the studio Laura O'Dea welcome Laura O'Dea MA: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to dive into this conversation. feel like we're going to have a lot to talk about. Leigh/@followtheleighder: ⁓ my, are we? Absolutely. Y'all check out her bio. So she holds dual bachelor's degrees in psychology and criminology. She did that down in Northern Arizona. And then she went over to UCAL Irvine for her master's in legal and forensic psychology. She's done work at the House of Representatives, state courts, legal nonprofits, and now works as a political analyst and legal reform advocate council consulting with independent organizations working to preserve Americans. Laura O'Dea MA: You Leigh/@followtheleighder: You are, truly, you're fighting right-wing authoritarianism and you're doing some really solid work online, which is how I found her, doing a lot of advocacy work for progressive military spouses. She knows this experience as her husband is a fighter pilot. Wow, ⁓ man, I mean, it's a mouthful. Laura O'Dea MA: A mouthful when you say it like that. Leigh/@followtheleighder: But I mean, this is exactly why your work and your voice are so important. ⁓ You have a very specific background in legal and forensic psychology. ⁓ Folks, if that sounds a little jargony, all that means is how does the mind intersect with the law? It's a little bit, ⁓ it's legal, it's psychological, and but. How does that play out when you analyze authoritarian political movements? How does it look when you look at history? Talk about the law and the mind, forensic psychology. Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, so I always tell people that my background is in legal and political analysis. So I study systems and behavior, whether that's behavior of individual people or behavior of monoliths, groups, or systems themselves. And then I apply those principles in that study to modern day and historical politics. ⁓ And yeah, when you say like forensic psychology or legal psychology or criminology, it all sounds very jargony and it can be, absolutely. But it's essentially just like not only the psychology of individual behavior, as I said, but also the psychology of how systems are created and how they function and their true motivations in how they function. And that is highly applicable to the politics that we are looking at today and right wing authoritarianism in specifically and then also Christian nationalism which I know is an issue dear near and dear to your heartly. So yeah how systems work how they were set up and how they function in daily society is essentially what what I study the criminal justice system in particular is sort of like a microcosm of the United States in general. And I say micro very loosely because it's obviously a huge, we have the largest incarceration system in the world. ⁓ We only have about 5 % of the world's general population, but we house 25 % of incarcerated populations in the world. And that has everything to do with how the legal system was set up and functions. ⁓ And the rules and the studies that I have undergone in studying legal system are highly applicable to. a majority of the systems in the United States today, including our federal government. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, one thing, and thank you for acknowledging the Christian nationalism and psychology of these authoritarian movements because recently I went down a history. I feel like I am always going down a history rabbit hole, so I don't know why I said recently, but it's so easy. And I feel like when you go down the rabbit hole, you have to do it in chunks because you're building a story. You're trying to build a like, Laura O'Dea MA: How can you not? It's so easy. For sure. Leigh/@followtheleighder: So I went down a really deep research of the military chaplains of Nazi Germany. And while this is applicable to military chaplains of Nazi Germany, ⁓ author Richard J. Evans, he wrote the Third Reich Trilogy, very notable scholar in this topic, talks about how these dictatorships, these movements have an incessant demand for legitimation by the people like they constantly need and it it just screams narcissism it just screams like it constantly needs to be validated by the people it is trying to lord over can you talk about how some of the mechanisms that it's a fascinating topic that you you go very high level the psychology is there something to that this this Laura O'Dea MA: Yes. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: constant demand for ⁓ legitimation by the public. Laura O'Dea MA: First of all, absolutely. ⁓ The famous colloquialism is that psychopaths are either murderers or CEOs. That's kind of the only two options. And I think you could chunk in politicians in there as well, especially in, you know, with our modern, our current administration. Narcissism is a fascinating topic. ⁓ It's very nuanced. It's very niche. And I will say a disclaimer, I am not a trained forensic psychologist in the sense that I do not have the credibility to diagnose people with certain disorders. ⁓ I study those disorders and how they play into society. ⁓ And narcissism is fascinating because you see Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, yeah. Laura O'Dea MA: The traits of narcissism, which is lack of empathy, inability to take responsibility for your actions. Those are just a couple, but two of the main ones. Narcissism is huge in politics and especially when you look at the current administration, it just reeks of narcissism, especially when you're talking about Donald Trump and some of the things that he says about himself ⁓ and the way that he posits himself as a as God-like, quite literally God-like. And you could say the same about Pete Hegseth and his adventures into Christian nationalism. ⁓ So yeah, think narcissism is a huge tenant of our political system. And narcissists seek reinforcement. That is what they do, is they seek. positive affirmation from people around them. And if they don't get it, they will manipulate people into giving it to them or just completely cut people off. Narcissist relationships are built on not mutual agreements, not a mutual relationship. It's very one-sided and anybody who's been with a narcissistic partner or had a narcissistic parent will absolutely understand ⁓ what I'm saying. I also want to... clip in really quickly before I forget, ⁓ I just want to explicitly say that I never attempt to speak for my husband who's active duty or anybody in the Department of Defense. I'm speaking purely for myself and other military families who care about the safety of our service members and the sanctity of our Constitution. Leigh/@followtheleighder: thank you. Yes, ⁓ this is not the opinions of the DOD or anything like that. These are two civilians hanging out. ⁓ You mentioned that you could group politicians in with narcissists and I appreciate you saying that not only to name ⁓ current leaders, but also you've worked inside the House of Representatives. Laura O'Dea MA: Yes. Leigh/@followtheleighder: You've done state courts, you've done legal nonprofits, while I'm sure you've seen the narcissists, you've also seen ⁓ these democratic institutions and what they stand for. you've seen issues, you've seen a lot. But what are some of your concerns with these institutions that you've served, you've seen, and the systems that they represent? Laura O'Dea MA: I think the values that our country claims to be founded on are so vitally important. Freedom, democracy, justice, equality, all of those values are what I fight for to preserve on a daily basis, what my husband signed up to defend. And we have seen, I mean, over the past century really, but especially in recent decades, we have seen the erosion of these vital values and these these values within our institutions and Capitalism, man. Capitalism truly, I think, is the precursor for a lot of the degradation of our current democracy. And that has to do with money and politics, truly. You shouldn't be able to make millions of dollars being a politician. And unfortunately, that is a possibility ⁓ in our modern state. And I think money in politics, if we want to preserve our democracy and get back what we've lost, whether it's the valuation of our democracy, the trust in our democracy, a majority of Americans do not trust the government, rightfully so. And if we want to re-earn that trust and preserve the values that we claim to uphold, we need to get money out of politics and we need to reaffirm that our politicians are subservient to their constituency and not to corporate political action committees. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Absolutely. Absolutely. ⁓ the web of, like you were saying, the erosion, the web of corruption, ⁓ it's heart-breaking. There's a lot of grief there. And one thing that you do well in your social media and on your sub stack ⁓ is you're able to communicate why things are so challenging. But It comes with this analytical focus. not, you're not, it's not an emotional woe. It's ⁓ very well done. How has your husband being a fighter pilot serving, how has it impacted ⁓ the way you see these systems? Has it sharpened your focus? Does it make you more emotional or clouded? What does that look like for you? Laura O'Dea MA: No, that's a great question. think I don't think emotional is the right word. More invested. Absolutely. Before I became a military spouse, I've always I've always been fascinated in, obviously because of my background in systems and how they work and how they function and how they're corrupt and joining the military family. ⁓ as somebody who did not grow up in a military family. My grandfather was in the military. I've had, you know, distant relatives in the military, but both of my parents were very like hippie, very like down to earth, very like anti-establishment. ⁓ So when I told them that I was marrying someone in the military, they were extremely surprised. Obviously they loved my husband, but yeah, I think investment is, it hits closer to home. It's not just a fascination for me, it is real life and it's important and that's why I'm so passionate about it. ⁓ Is because it affects my life directly, it affects people around me lives directly and a lot of them can't speak up for themselves because they signed contracts, which is understandable. ⁓ Or they're too afraid to speak up and that's also understandable because the military has built. an environment where it's very much you put your head down and you do what you're told and you support your spouse. And I am attempting to change the narrative of what support means. Blind obedience is not equivalent to support. I believe that true support of our service members entails us being able to criticize the systems that take advantage of them. And so yeah, it hits close to home. And I'm very lucky to have a background in political analysis and legal analysis. So I am trained to be able to spot out reliable sources and explain complicated politics to people in a way that it becomes palatable. And so that on top of creating a community of like-minded people who want to support our service members, but also are passionate about calling out how they are being taken advantage of. Leigh/@followtheleighder: ⁓ it's the investment. It's working. It's effective. saw that. saw your interview with NBC. I know that you have really generated a community of working and ⁓ supporting, like you said, changing what support looks like for progressive military spouses. Can you talk about What's really interesting is I think folks have a monolithic view of what the military is. ⁓ it's a lot of folks don't, may not even recognize when they say progressive. Can you be progressive in the military? Can you talk about that community? Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, yeah, so it's, I love our community. Like, literally couldn't do it without their support. Like, I have met so many amazing people, you included, that are just like so supportive of my content and find comfort and support in my content. And that is just, yeah, the best in the whole world. ⁓ But yeah, when you think of military and progressive, it sounds... and like an antithesis, it sounds like they're against each other, but it's not. When you think of the military, the United States military is the largest socialist organization in the entire world. And that's designed on purpose. Our service members, this is a quote from one of my favorite military veteran creators, his name is Jolly, Jolly Goodginger. He says that, our service members are offered socialism to go abroad and defend capitalism. And that was one of the realest moments for me. was like, whoa, that's such a great way to put that because it's true. ⁓ Our citizens are denied basic services that other citizens of wealthy nations are given as a right, whether it's healthcare, ⁓ housing, ⁓ college education, all of these things are kept from our citizens and used as. a tool to recruit people into our military. And so when our military is the largest socialist organization in the world, they get all of these benefits. My argument is that we should be giving these benefits to everybody, all of our citizens, and people will still sign up to defend a country that defends them. We don't need to be, you know, dangling healthcare over our citizens when we're the wealthiest nation in the world. ⁓ So I absolutely argue that there are progressives in the military. They just don't maybe necessarily recognize themselves as progressive or they're afraid to speak up because our military is very much, has very much of a stereotype of being, you know, patriotic Republican. even like MAGA more so in recent years. ⁓ yes, there are people in the military who are staunch Republicans who support Donald Trump. And like I said, I don't speak for them. There are many people in the military who are outwardly progressive and they're just afraid to say their opinions because they feel like they are outnumbered. And part of my creating content is to remind people that no, we have a community. There are people out there who support our service members and also want our citizens to be provided for. Also are against people being kidnapped out of their homes without a warrant. ⁓ Are against sending our service members to unnecessary conflicts over capital resources versus democracy. So reminding people that our voices matter and we can use our voices. Our First Amendment rights don't go away just because we marry somebody in them. ⁓ So for anybody who's curious about progressivism, like I tell you, it's not a bad word. It just means that you want the rights that you obtain and you benefit from in the military to apply to all American citizens, truly. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, that's a very powerful statement. mean, because you can imagine that would be life changing. ⁓ How many people would be able to change their career or leave a relationship for if we had even health care as a benefit for I mean, like that is huge. And it also really shows how, you know, ⁓ you know, we want Laura O'Dea MA: Thank Leigh/@followtheleighder: a safe country, our borders, not even our national security, I guess is where I'm trying to go with it. ⁓ And the services you're receiving, I liked how you, I guess called Jolly Gichinger, ⁓ the socialist, it's the largest socialist organization in the world. Because, it's supposed to be so that it gets maximum efficiency. Like I think about this a lot with you, when you provide the housing, the healthcare, the school, like when you have all of this and the person just has to show up and go to work, guess what? Like things run and... ⁓ Laura O'Dea MA: things work better, yeah, who would thought if people, and that also goes back to my history in criminology. ⁓ Anomy theory is this idea that we would have a society significantly less crime if people's basic needs were met. A large majority of crime has to do with people trying to provide for their families or provide for themselves. And of course you have like the off wing, like, people who are just like evil and wanna hurt people. But those are a small, small portion of our mass incarceration system right now. A majority of people in our incarceration system right now are there for property crimes and drug crimes. And so if we provided people with basic necessities, housing, food, healthcare, our society would be so much more productive, so much more productive. ⁓ But there is no... money to be made in giving people the needs that they work for, if that makes sense. ⁓ Keeping people poor is an organized, purposeful machine ⁓ that is on part of the American political system, but especially American corporations. And that goes back to getting money out of politics, truly. ⁓ But keeping people poor and keeping them working keeps them subservient. If we gave people their basic basic needs, our society would be so much more productive, but that wouldn't necessarily benefit the the corporations that run this country, unfortunately. Leigh/@followtheleighder: No, and it's sickening how consolidated and concentrated these corporations are becoming. I was thinking about this just before this, was like, how even within military and defense contractors and AI, it's just becoming, ⁓ I was like, isn't it? Are defense contractors not socialists? are they like, I I know that they're capitalist country, but like, we're their client, the people. Like I was like that. And I was just like, this is such a wild, the whole thing is, it's just reeks of ⁓ maximum profit, not reeks, it is ⁓ maximum profit and just de dehumanization. And, and ⁓ Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. Leigh/@followtheleighder: This and what you said earlier, though, stood out to me that when we support military spouses, ⁓ support does not mean vital obedience to ⁓ all, not just the consolidated power, which is part of the authoritarian, but ⁓ to all. I questioning the religious rhetoric of Hegseth, that's a major concern. And here's the deal, folks. And I want to give you a chance to The struggles of a military spouse are hard enough already without everything else that's going on. ⁓ Can you talk a little bit about some of the struggles of a military spouse that listeners may not know too much about? And then how Hegseth or any of this other Pentagon White House ⁓ rhetoric is affecting, could be affecting military spouses. Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, I think it's hard to explain to somebody who may have not experienced a life in the military. ⁓ But when you marry your spouse who has signed a contract with the United States government, you are in a sense also in a relationship with the United States government, because the government determines in every aspect where we live, where we go. ⁓ for some people what we say, what benefits we receive, how long we are in a place, whether or not our spouses are gonna get deployed. All of these things are completely up in the air. So trying to plan as somebody with extreme control issues, I will say, it is a struggle because trying to plan anything, even like my husband and I are planning a trip to Arizona to go visit my parents. And even in planning that trip, it's like we need to book Airbnbs that are refundable because he might not get the time off and he won't know if he gets the time off until the week before. Things are always up in the air for military spouses and it's very exhausting. And of course, you know, the caveat to that is there are benefits. And like I said, that's the design. We don't have to worry about health care. We get housing allowance, which is amazing. But all of those services should be given to citizens regardless of whether or not they sign their life away to the United States government. So everything is up in the air when you're a military spouse. And it's this balance of supporting your spouse, advocating for yourself, providing for your family. ⁓ A lot of, I am not a mom, but a lot of spouses that have connected with are parents, not even necessarily moms, but parents, dads, moms, and navigating the life of a military spouse while taking care of your family, while supporting your spouse, while focusing on your own career or at least attempting to. There are aspects and times when you absolutely have to put yourself to the side to support your spouse. And that's fine. Like that's what we sign up for. But when you add on top of that, The fact that those who are in charge of all of this, of our spouses of the United States military, blatantly disregard the safety of our service members and the sanctity of our constitution, whether that be protecting democracy, separation of church and state, all of these things. When you add on top of the already struggles of the military spouses and you add on top of this rhetoric, that is just, like you said, so dehumanizing and honestly embarrassing, embarrassing some of the things that come out of this administration and dangerous. It's so dangerous for our service members and that's been evidence. We have lost at least 15 invaluable service members lives in the last month and a half alone. And that is unacceptable. It is unacceptable. ⁓ And then when you add on top of that the fact that they, it feels like they are doing it on purpose. It feels like the chaos, the harmful rhetoric ⁓ is done on purpose. And I think to a certain extent it is, but also it is just the symptoms of narcissistic men in power. ⁓ So it's exhausting. makes it so much more mentally and physically exhausting. when you already don't know what the next couple months, let alone few years look like as a military spouse. And then you add on top of that entering into a conflict without congressional approval, completely unnecessarily to attempt to defend capital resources and has nothing to do with democracy, right? This is about protecting capital. ⁓ It's infuriating. it's infuriating and it's exhausting. And that's also why I do what I do is because I just like cannot keep my mouth shut. Leigh/@followtheleighder: you just, can you ⁓ define ⁓ what is right wing authoritarianism? Laura O'Dea MA: ⁓ Leigh/@followtheleighder: How does psychology play a role? I know we've already talked about the narcissism, but who's their audience? Laura O'Dea MA: I think that's a great question. Here's the thing about American politics is that American politics is not, and I've sent my followers, well, I've said this a million times. American politics is not left versus right. It's not red versus blue. It is top versus bottom. It is the wealthy elite class versus the working class. And the goal of the wealthy elite class who have their hands in both sides of the aisle, I will say. The goal of them is to manipulate the working class into us hating each other so that we don't realize who the actual culprits of inequality in this country are. So right-wing authoritarian authoritarianism is really good at that, is really good at painting non-white people, women, non-binary or non-gender conforming people as the enemy of safety and freedom and democracy and being able to provide for your own family when in reality the the source of the inability American inability to do that is the elite working as the elite class is the elite billionaire class they whether it's tax cuts whether it's monopolies they manipulate the system and politicians to pit the working class against each other and the way that right-wing authoritarians do that is by, like I said, scapegoating non-white people, non-gender conforming people, ⁓ and people like me who call them out on their bullshit. ⁓ So right-wing authoritarianism in the sense of how they do it is through politics, is through money and politics, and is through pitting working class members against each other. Why they do it is kind of self-explanatory in the name. It's about authoritarianism. It's about maintaining power. If you can maintain power, if you can control markets, if you can manipulate businesses and how they work with their workers, you can control how much money you're making. And this has been evidenced already we've seen with the war in Iran. ⁓ Pete Hegseth investing in defense contractors before, well, I will say his, his brokers investing in defense contractors before the war began. ⁓ we've also seen Baron Trump make millions of dollars off of trades with Saudi Arabia. And as well as, Jared Kushner, he has made millions of dollars off all of these trades in recent months. While the working class, two thirds of the American population live paycheck to paycheck. And I don't think people were so desensitized to it. People in other countries look at us and say, like, are you good? And a lot of us don't even realize. how subjugated we are to billionaires and to the elites. And that's done purposely. That is done very purposely. They manipulate politicians ⁓ into pitting us against each other, truly. And they do that to maintain power so that they can keep making money. They don't care if... people's lives are lost if people, yeah, they just don't care about people and that goes more into the narcissists of it all. But yeah, it's about pitting people against each other so that they can make more money. That's literally the gist of it. Leigh/@followtheleighder: It is. It is. It's the profit. And it's the hoarding, it's the dehumanizing, it's the... But you hit the nail right on the head. They don't care. And that's the heartbreak. And that's what I think people can feel. Like, they can feel when there's no one for them. The concern, or maybe the question... that's a better way to say, ⁓ is these authoritarian, like they don't just happen overnight. Can you talk about the coalition building and the money and the organizing? I know you've talked quite a bit about money and politics, ⁓ but how how did these form partnerships to build into something like this? How did that, what's the domino effect? Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, I think that's a great question. think we need to look back about at least 150 years in American politics to really understand where we are today. ⁓ I like to, I blame Ronald Reagan for a lot of things, I will say. ⁓ I think it really started post-Civil War, or excuse me, post-Civil Rights Movement. at least in the modern way that we see it today. Politicians in the 70s and 80s began to realize that they could take advantage of people and organizations to get what they want. ⁓ Ronald Reagan is a great example of that because he had a lot to do with the rise of Christian nationalism. I'm sure you know. ⁓ And how he gathered that voting block in order to win the presidential election. And then people realized, hey, this is really cool. Like I could build coalitions with organizations that we have mutual needs, right? Like I'll pay for your campaign and you'll be in power, but then you need to give me what I deserve, what I owe as an organization who helped you maintain your political stance in your campaign. So I think these coalitions have a lot to do with the history and the rise of money in politics. And nowadays with social media and the digital sphere that we have, it's just completely out of control. You don't need a multinational organization to convince people on Instagram that the enemy is an immigrant who's been here for their entire life and has been working and contributing to the economy. you just need a right wing podcaster to say it. And then people will start to believe it. So I think nowadays in the digital sphere, it's so much easier to conglomerate people to the right. And that is something that the right recognized immediately. I would say in like 2016 election is really when the far right started to organize in a sense that they knew what they were doing. They knew that they were building a army of working class people who were rightfully angry about the current state of the country. You should not have to work two to three jobs to provide for yourself and your family and the wealthiest nation on the planet. But that is the case. And so what Donald Trump did really, really well, and I talk about this in my substack, is he saw those struggles and he recognized them as a politician for the first time. And of course he had his whole like, I'm not a politician, like, drunk, drain the swamp kind of thing. But he recognized people's problems. They're very real, very valid problems. And instead of saying, yeah, I did that. People like me did that. The billionaire class, the elite did that. He said, no, the immigrant down the street did that. The transgender person who walks past you on the street did that. Like, no. It's this painting, like I said, scapegoating people who are really not at fault for the fault of the elite class. And they do that a lot through digital engagement nowadays. In the eighties, it was all about like, you know, back money deals and stuff like that. But nowadays you just need a pretty podcaster or a tradwife creator to say something that maybe slightly resonates with somebody who's really struggling in order to slowly get them over to your side. And the Democrats have just been truly missing the mark when it comes to that. I personally don't consider myself a Democrat. I am absolutely more independent. I criticize both sides of the aisle. the Democrats in this, they were doing a little bit better about it now and post 2024 was a little bit better. Obviously they still fumbled that in their own way, but the Democrats hadn't recognized the value of digital creation in the digital sphere until probably like after Trump was elected the second time, ⁓ after this year. This year, I think is the first time that the Democratic party as an institution is really starting to harp on creation, digital content creation and collectivizing voters in that realm, which the Republicans and MAGA Republicans have been doing for a decade now. So we're gonna need to catch up on that. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yes, we do. But you did bring up something, um, poignant that Trump was able to, to name the harms or name the experiences as part of his campaign. Um, this whole thing revolves around him. It's. And, like you said, how do I want to say this? Is everyone just bowing down to Trump or is Trump also having to give folks their favors too? How much of this is just everyone saying yes to everyone's bad decisions? Laura O'Dea MA: No, I think that's a great way to put it. ⁓ I think that's the main tenant of it. And of course Donald Trump is at the helm of this institution and this corruption ⁓ because he's the president, right? Technically he has the most political power in the world, you could argue, which is terrifying. But yeah, I mean, it's just a bunch of narcissistic billionaire yes men saying yes to each other. regardless of the consequences to the American people or civilians abroad. ⁓ So yeah, I think Donald Trump is at the helm of that and it's his way or the highway kind of thing. ⁓ But I'm sure he has favors that he's doing for people too because then he gets more favors in turn. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, guess I asked because if, you know, he's in the middle of his second term, constitutionally, he should be done. Does it end when he's out of office, either by election or if his health fails or whatever? But what happens if Trump's no longer in office? Laura O'Dea MA: I think that's a great question. And that is a question that not a lot of people are thinking about right now, because it seems so far off. Obviously, we have these moments where it's like, ⁓ is he in the hospital? We'll see what happens kind of thing. But Trump has started a movement that is not going to go away when he goes away. I will say that. I think the cult of it all, which I talk about in my sub stack, revolves around Donald Trump as this center deity, essentially, that can do no wrong. ⁓ But when he is either out of office or passes away, this movement, this rhetoric is not going to just disappear. Somebody is going to try to take his place. I don't know who it's going to be, whether it's like, Donnie or Donnie Jr. or JD Vance. JD Vance, feel like is not charismatic enough to do it. But you know, who knows? Whoever it may be, Eric Trump, whatever. ⁓ There's going to be somebody who's going to try to take his place and whether or not it works, we'll see. But this rhetoric is not going to just disappear because the man who made it mainstream disappears. Because like I said, a lot of the discontent and the sentiment that is coming from Republican MAGA base are rooted in real problems, are rooted in just wanting to provide for your family and not having to work three jobs. And that's completely valid. Other people within the base have been feeling these sentiments, the sentiments that Donald Trump expresses, whether that's racism, bigotry, narcissism, they recognize that and they like it. There are some people in the MAGA base who are truly just not good people. ⁓ But I think the reason why he came to such power was because he was calling out very real problems that people were experiencing. But like I said, that rhetoric and those problems don't just go away when he goes away, unfortunately. It's gonna be, it's gonna take decades to undo this, unfortunately. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And I'm glad you bring that up about Vance because ⁓ it's like the Trump is the deity. It's like, you can't imagine not having it. I mean, I remember having that distinct feeling when Biden came into office like two months into it, I was like, ⁓ my gosh, it's so nice just to not hear about Trump every day. Laura O'Dea MA: Yes. Yes. Leigh/@followtheleighder: It was just like, ⁓ my gosh, like the birds were chirping or something. And now every day, the onslaught of some of the wildest rhetoric, it's almost numbing. Is that a part of authoritarian strategy? Laura O'Dea MA: Literally, yeah. I think numbing is a great way to describe it because it absolutely is calculated. ⁓ When Trump came into his second term, he passed more executive orders than any other president in history. And that was very much calculated information overload. A lot of people don't realize that executive orders are not law. It is a directive given by the president to federal agencies to try to acquiesce him to try, you should do this, you should do this, but it's not, it's not a law. So executive order overload is huge in the beginning of this administration. But we also, now he's just says whatever comes to his mind ⁓ and then tweets it for the, or truth said, or whatever it's called to the entire world. And that is exhausting. is exhausting for people who are trying to understand what's going on. and trying to stay on top of what's going on and are fighting what he is doing in the degradation of our country. And that is calculated. The overload, the exhaustion is done on purpose because if we're exhausted, we can't fight against them. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Hmm. Absolutely. Well, and the other concern about all of it is how much is just not real, not archived. I mean, in all of this, I know you've seen the memes online of all the different outfits of Rubio this year, like, as every... I was thinking, I was like, I wish I... they knew to be saving these because now it's been going on for months that Rubio is getting a new position. Like a coffee table book, which is like Rubio sitting on a couch. I would too. But it's a larger, and we have to laugh because the real thing is like, it's not, it's a, how can one person hold so many roles and be the national archivist? Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, it'll be in the Library of Congress at some point. Literally. Listen, I'd buy it. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: archivist, I don't know, but what is happening? Is there leadership? Is there organization? Laura O'Dea MA: You know what's something I've been thinking about recently is where Stephen Miller. He's been weirdly quiet recently and he's honestly probably one of the scariest people in the Trump administration because he is very calculated in the way that he moves. But yeah, well, what you say is we have to laugh. We have to laugh because if we don't, we will cry. Like that literally is what it is. And Yeah, it's information overload, whether it's a funny meme or whether it's a truth that he sends out or whether it's the Strait of Hormuz is blocked. No, it's not blocked. No, I'm blocking it. No, you're blocking it. Like it's overload. And also this, the sense of access that we have to our world is unprecedented. Never before in history have we been able to have access to every single news organization, nearly every single country in the entire world. And it's exhausting and our little monkey brains don't know how to process that. They have not evolved to be able to process the information overload that we handle on a daily basis, especially as creators. Your mental health is... It's not great all the time. ⁓ It is a delicate balance, especially when people look to you to give them reliable news information, reliable sources. It can be really, really exhausting to set boundaries for yourself and really tiring. ⁓ But yeah, this information overload is very calculated and it is unprecedented. And our little brains just don't know how to deal with it. We don't. Leigh/@followtheleighder: No, and the other thing was, yeah, it's information, like you said, all these new sources, but it is weird to not only hear such horrible news, like just in general, whether it's an act or shooter, whether it's war, like whatever. But not only do you hear these pieces of news, the individual bits of information every day, and that itself, even if you just heard one bad thing every day, would form you. But you might hear it somewhere between eight to 25 different times with a different perspective, because everyone's going to chime in with her. And I was like, that's wild. In what world do you do that with anything? I mean, anything where something happens and it becomes a daily thing. And it's concerning, because like you said, as we numb or as we overwhelm, they just continue to steamroll. Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think it's really the internet is a double edged sword. ⁓ Well, I guess I'll rephrase that and to say that it can be good and it can be bad. The internet is exhausting. It's overwhelming. And like you said, yeah, every single person has an opinion about something and there's just no way that our little brains can process it all. On the other hand, The internet is an amazing tool for people who have not had access to traditional education. Our public education system in the United States is nothing to write home about, unfortunately. ⁓ And it's really hard for people to access higher education without going into six figures of debt at least. So the internet is a great resource for people who are wanting to learn and maybe haven't had traditional resources to be able to learn in the past. The caveat to that is finding reliable information. We are not taught media literacy in this country. In other countries, they teach their children media literacy, which is amazing and something that I absolutely think we should be doing. But being able to find reliable information is hard on the internet. And we need to be teaching people how to do this so that they can form their own opinions with reliable empirical information. I think one of the most underrated signs of intelligence is being able to change your mind when you are presented with new reliable information. And for a lot of people on the internet, either they're in their own echo chambers or they experience confirmation bias in the sense that they are looking for resources that confirm their own internal biases and their own opinions. We need to be teaching people how to find reliable resources on the internet, how to utilize the internet in a way that is productive for our society. And maybe we can counteract some of the slop that is out there. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, well, and that's a great segue to talking about what you provide online. You have the Substack, you have your TikTok, you're doing Instagram threads, you're really building a community out there. What is it, what have you learned about taking really complex legal and political analysis and communicating that to your audience? Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, I think that's a great question. ⁓ The first thing that I've learned that comes to my mind is that content creation is hard. I think people see it as people who don't create content. It's very easy. And I was included. I was not a content creator before I started my pages. ⁓ people see content creation, say, ⁓ this person is just talking in front of the camera. Like, that's not hard. And to a certain extent, that's true. But there are scripting and researching processes and editing processes and content or content comment moderation and all of these things that we do on the side that a lot of people don't see. And a lot of things that are unpaid, like especially for, you know, micro creators such as myself, we... we don't have teams to support us. We don't have a lot of people coming to defend us in the comments. So it's very much like if you're gonna do content creation, first of all, you need to have thick skin and you also need to recognize that it's a lot more than just talking from in front of a camera. It's a lot of research, it's a lot of scripting and editing. ⁓ So being able to balance all of that is definitely a learned skill. But in terms of getting my content out there, it has been... so rewarding to find a community of people who resonate with my content. if sometimes I just feel like I am talking in the void truly, ⁓ which is cathartic to a certain extent for me, ⁓ you know, but finding people who relate to my content and appreciate it is why I do what I do truly. Because like I said earlier, a lot of people either can't speak up or They don't know how or they're afraid to, and that's completely understandable. So being able to make politics palatable for people is one of my goals. And finding community in doing that has been so rewarding and so fun. it's a lot of fun to find people who you never would have met in any other context, ⁓ but you met through this tiny little app or this. two minute video that you posted. So it's really rewarding, but it's hard. It is hard. It is an acquired skill and it takes a lot of time. So if anybody listening to this is like interested in starting content, first of all, I say, go for it. Like do what you got to do. ⁓ But keep in mind that it is going to be exhausting and it's going to take some time to learn how to do it. I'm, I and myself, I'm still learning. It's, it's a constant learning process. ⁓ Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Laura O'Dea MA: So yeah, it's been an adventure, overall it's been just like so rewarding. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Can you tell folks where they can find you? Drop some links or some social media usernames. Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah Yeah, absolutely. So y'all can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Substack, threads. Those are like my main ones. You can find me at underscore lauraoday.ma. That's L-A-U-R-A-O-D-E-A.MA and a little underscore before that. Yeah, come join the community. And I say, I always say to people, if any of my content makes you uncomfortable, sit in that comfortability. try to understand like maybe why something that I said or something that I reposted makes you uncomfortable because that is truly where we learn is in our uncomfortability, me included. Another thing is follow people who you don't necessarily agree with everything that they say. We can always learn from people even if they don't have opinions that are exactly the same as us. But yeah, you can find me on Instagram, sub stack, TikTok and threads at underscore Laura O'Day, MA. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Thank you so much Laura for coming on today. That was awesome. Laura O'Dea MA: Yeah, I so much fun. I love talking about this stuff, as you can tell. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, please come back. More will happen as you have been very clear about today. Unfortunately. Well, folks, please let me know what you thought about today's conversation down in the comments. Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. You know the drill. This has been another episode of Follow the Leader. I'm your host, Leigh Larson. And until next time, see ya. Laura O'Dea MA: Yes, unfortunately. you