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Dr. Clarissa Bell - Trauma-Exposed Children · Look Who's Talking

0:15
You are listening to Look Who's Talking. I am
0:19
Cameron Minter. I am your co -host. And our wonderful
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Head Start Director, Jessica Coffie. Hey, y 'all.
0:27
Is our host. What's going on, JC? Not much. It
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has been, I don't know how long. I know. It's
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been the summer. I know. You've been busy, haven't
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you? I have. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Should I tell
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the viewers? I mean, you should. I mean, I got
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engaged. Yay! Yay! Yay! I know. That's an awesome,
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awesome, awesome thing. Yes. You know, my mama
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and daddy was like, how did this happen? Look,
1:01
look, why you start talking about mama and daddy
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already? Because it's tradition. I need to talk
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about what they say to me that is, you know.
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Are you sure? Right, right, right. Are you having
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cold feet? I said, already? Already. No, sir.
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So how long you been engaged? Since August. Wow.
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I know. It's like two months. It's been a minute
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now. Yeah, two months. About two months. Well,
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almost three, I guess. Look, don't start cheating.
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You sound like the kids. I'm seven and a half.
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No, you're seven. Or mom's, oh, my baby's 15
1:41
months. What? We're not doing that. Yes. Three
1:46
months in. We'll say three months in. That's
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great. Ask me what's planned. What's planned?
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Everything. I know it. I don't have time to waste,
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baby, honey. I am 43 years old. Here's the question.
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Ain't no waiting. Here's the question. I should
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have went to the courthouse last week. Here's
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the question. It's not too late, though. Here's
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the question. Did you allow him to have any input?
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Absolutely. Oh, really? You did? I allowed him
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to. Oh. Now, did he? His response is, oh, honey,
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whatever you want. I'm like, no, you have to.
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Whatever you like. Now, he did say this. There's
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one thing he said I do not want in any bride,
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any other bride, because, you know, I'm not normal.
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You're not normal. In a good way. Any other person
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probably would have been like, no, that's a deal
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breaker for me. He was like, no flowers. What?
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What? He is a funeral director. Oh, yeah, yeah.
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He's tired of that. And he's like, flowers equals
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death to me. I said, oh. As a matter of fact,
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I need for him to probably listen to this podcast.
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Clearly, that's trauma. Right. So I said, cool.
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I'm good with that. No flowers. How are you going
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to do that? Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We
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can't talk about that. I have ways. That can't
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be released. Hold up. That will be released after
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the fact. Yeah, that will be released after.
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I got you. But my decorator was excited. Oh.
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I'm sure. She's crazy. Yeah. She's crazy with
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it. She said, oh, you ain't said nothing but
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a thing. Right. Right. She tired of flowers anyway.
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She ready to do something different. Oh, absolutely.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. So we're excited. This
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season of planning. But what I realized is I
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don't like, I like telling people what to do,
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but I don't like them asking me questions. you
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just want them to make it happen yes just make
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it happen I want to be dropped from the ceiling
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And twirl three times. Okay, goodbye. Yeah, like
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that. Right. And I also trust professionals.
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So I'm like, I want this color. I don't want
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this. That's all I want to say. That's it. Figure
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it out. You come up with whatever is in my head
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that I haven't said that you can make it. I feel
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a bridezilla coming on. Oh, no, no, no, no. I've
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been pretty easy. I mean, but ain't nothing done
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yet. I mean, everything is set. Yeah. You know
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what? Have dresses been made? Oh, yes. Honey,
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I got that two weeks in. Wow. Okay. No, probably
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like three. I ain't talking about your dress.
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I'm talking about everybody else's dress because
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yours, unless you're going to come in something,
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you know, besides white, like you're so pure.
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Okay. Hallelujah. Go! Okay. It's the other color
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scheme with the other people. I don't know. Cam.
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It's done. I have made this so easy for everyone.
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Uh -oh. Everyone. See, that's a setup for failure.
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When you say, I've made it easy for everyone.
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I did. And then when there's trouble, then you're
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like, I made it easy. See? No. No. This is, I
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think, my sister. My sister is the bridezilla,
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actually. Oh. Yeah, she is. You got to have.
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It's not me. It's her. It's good that it's not
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you, but you need one. Yeah. You need one to
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speak on your behalf. I mean, she had a bridal
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shower venue in Paducah, like, within two weeks.
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And I said, yo. Right. Right, right. And then
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I told them, I don't want to know anything about
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bridal shower, bachelorette parties, any of that.
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Don't tell me anything. I'm grateful for anything
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because I know the economy we're in. Right. They
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were like, bro, why are you trying to count our
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pockets? You know what? I won't. Y 'all do what
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you want. Do what you want. I'm going to be grateful.
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That's the best way to be. Yeah. That's the best
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way to be. So there's no expectation for me.
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That's good. I had no expectation and did not
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get a bachelor party. Oh, you didn't? No. I'm
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still scarred. Hey, it's not too late. No, yeah,
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it's too late. No, it's not. It's too late. You
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can have a bachelor. Well, I guess you can't.
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You can have a I'm still married party with the
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boys. You could. It don't hit the same. But,
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you know, I want you to keep the mystique of
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marriage. Uh -huh. I want you to keep that mystique
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until after the wedding because that's when the
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marriage starts. The wedding is all that preparation.
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That's great. Yeah. But then the wedding starts.
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I mean, the marriage starts. Well, we've already
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said, oh, we could have went to the courthouse
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after all this planning. Now, wait a minute.
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Now, hold on. I got to speak for Mom and Dad.
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Not after all this time you not be ready to go
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to no courthouse. That's why your sister said,
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don't be counting our pockets. We've been saving
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up for this. Listen, and when they were like,
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you know, Dad, I was like, oh, so how much you
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got on this? Come on, come on. And they was like,
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no. And my mom was like, oh, you forgot to invite
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this person. Well, let's talk about your checkbook,
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bro. Right, right. Tell me how it's going to
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work. It's been fun. Well, let me say this. It
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wasn't fun at first because we were going to
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do a destination. Yeah, you was tripping. But,
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you know, I allowed, you know. Well, you know,
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you hear people say, oh, destination's much cheaper.
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I don't believe that at all. That stressed me
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out so bad that I said no. I don't believe that
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at all. No destination. And I had everything
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I wanted and everything we agreed on together
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within like two or three weeks. And then I was
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like, why does it take people so long? You either
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know what you want or you don't. Well, you've
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been thinking about it for a minute. I mean,
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don't put me out there. I haven't been thinking
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about it like that. Come on now. You know, y
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'all women, y 'all from childhood, y 'all think
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about this thing. I know what I like and what
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I don't like. Okay. Okay. Well, with all of that,
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congratulations. Well, thank you, Kim. We're
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so happy for you. I'm excited. And I think it's
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time for a Coffie break. All right, y 'all. So
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for this Coffie break, I want to say you deserve
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rest, relaxation, and rejuvenation. Give yourself
8:47
permission to recharge. You know, simple but
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sweet because, you know, it's that season where
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we get so sidetracked by holidays and all of
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that. And, you know, you need time to rest. You
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need time to relax, rejuvenate. Yeah, I've been
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taking care of my mom, and my wife constantly
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reminds me, you've got to rest. You've got to
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get some sleep. You've got to recoup. You've
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got to regenerate, because once you go down,
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no one is going to get anything out of you. Right.
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It's important to listen to that recoup and that
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relaxation. That reminds me. Notice how easy
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it is to fall, but how hard it is to get back
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up. It takes a little bit more energy. Yeah,
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you talking about my grades in college. It was
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easy to get that 3 -4 freshman year, but when
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I went down to a 1 -4, it took me forever to
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get back up to 2 -5. What does the good Donnie
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McClurkin say? We fall down. We fall down. But
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we get up. We get up. Hey, hey, hey, we're talking
10:06
about some great things today, but we've got
10:09
a guest in the house that is really, you know,
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that coffee break was right on time. Absolutely.
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It flows right into. It's going to flow. It's
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going to flow. That segway, I see you. You're
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segging right on in. Like the dew in the morning.
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Come on, you act like you ain't been off. Okay.
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Gently rest upon my heart. Amen. Okay, okay.
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All right, so I am excited because today. We
10:33
have one of our policy council members. She's
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a member of policy council. And someone I met,
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well, actually through policy council. And what
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intrigued me about her is, like, I knew she looked
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at our data because she had questions. Oh, my.
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Yes. Someone is putting that effort into it.
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So we are talking to Ms. Dr. Clarissa Bell. How
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are you doing? I'm fabulous. Yay! So I just,
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I won't. I don't want to do any introductions
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about her because I actually want you to tell
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the viewers about yourself and your background
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and all that good jazz. OK, well, all right.
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You just throw me in there. I just throw you
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in. Well, my name is Dr. Clarissa Bell. I'm a
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licensed psychologist specializing in working
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with trauma exposed children. And I think a big
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part of my mission really is to help create healing
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communities. because as traumatic events happen
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in the context of relationships, healing also
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happens in the context of relationships. So within
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my practice, we do a lot of training and consulting
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with child -serving organizations, as well as
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something that's super important to me is my
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spiritual life. And so we also really try to
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focus on helping churches and clergymen help
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those who are having mental health struggles.
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How do we create church environments and communities?
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So that when people come to you, it can be also
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an environment where they can have that continual
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restoration as well as a positive experience
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as they try to address their mental health difficulties.
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You talking to me? She talking to me? Don't even
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know it. I love that. I love that because, you
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know, in the faith -based organizations, you
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know, give it to God. But give it to God and
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go to hell with therapists. That's what I think.
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You know? We need Jesus and therapy. Yes. Absolutely.
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Absolutely. We'll take whatever that's going
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to heal. Yeah. There we go. Whatever's going
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to heal. And some people see it one way and some
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people see it another way. But healing is essential.
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We've got to heal. And, yeah. And you know what?
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One of the things that sticks out, like, with
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the Head Start program is we are teaching the
12:58
children early. However, when we bring parents
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in, when we bring staff in, it's harder for us
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to be able to connect with the healing At that
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time, we weren't taught at an early age on how
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to connect, how to deal with our emotions, how
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to express our feelings. So we are definitely
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going to get into the children. But what do you
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see when it comes to adults being able to process
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the trauma and how is there a way for adults
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to get out of that? You know, just the trauma
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and broken trauma. You go ahead. You're the professional.
13:43
I feel like this is going to be an hour. Yes,
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yes, yes. You know, I think this is the thing
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about a traumatic event. Many times it's kind
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of if a fish doesn't always realize they're in
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water. if that makes sense. A lot of times there's
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a lot of maladaptive functioning around us, a
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lot of patterns, and those things don't oftentimes
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just happen with the person in front of you.
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There isn't a lineage, and there are things that
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they've seen and things that they've experienced.
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And one thing I'm so excited about, particularly
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within minority and brown communities, is that
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the understanding of mental health and that the
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understanding that our mind and our emotional
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functioning matters, that's becoming a lot more
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normalized. people are more willing to talk about
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it. So I think the first step in addressing anything
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is level of awareness. We have to be aware that
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there is a problem. We have to be aware that
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there is something going on. And also I think
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another step is that knowledge gap of knowing
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now that I know, what am I going to do with something
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about it, you know? Because a lot of times I
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think... We are in an interesting space where
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mental health is becoming so much more normalized.
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Yes. And people are talking about their mental
14:54
struggles. But sometimes we have a tendency to
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bleed all over each other. And when I say that
15:00
is we will embrace that issue and we'll talk
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about that issue. But then we are either stuck
15:06
or incapable of taking the next step of addressing
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those things. And so kind of going back to your
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initial question, what can adults do? First,
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I think become aware. Secondly, begin to seek
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community and resources as well as understanding
15:22
of self so they can start addressing those things.
15:25
Gotcha. That's powerful. We're going to continue
15:28
talking with Dr. Clarissa Bell after this break.
15:34
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That's C -O -M -M -Action .org. are listening
17:25
to look who's talking and today we are talking
17:28
with dr clarissa bell now dr bell you said something
17:32
right before the break about the black and brown
17:35
community embracing mental health and i was kind
17:41
of shocked you said that because typically in
17:43
my opinion we do we okay so we embrace it but
17:48
we don't deal with it and let me give you an
17:50
example everybody know I hate to say it this
17:54
way, but crazy Pookie on the corner. Everybody
17:56
know that Pookie got some issues, right? And
17:59
so when the police come, the community stands
18:02
up and say, hey, wait a minute, hold on. Pookie's
18:04
got some issues, right? But we haven't dealt
18:08
with Pookie's issues. Is that what you're talking
18:12
about when you're embracing mental health? Because
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it seems like, in my opinion, the communities
18:17
embrace it. We know. those that are in our community
18:21
that are in struggling and need some help but
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i'm not sure if they're getting the help so you're
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asking a really nuanced question And I do want
18:32
to kind of level set and make it clear that I
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think within our culture and community, we've
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always had some level of awareness and we have
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dealt with mental health issues. Right. We may
18:44
not use those. Correct. All right. I'm not going
18:46
to say correct. That's a terrible way to phrase
18:47
that. We may have not used clinical terms. So,
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you know, somebody say my nerves bad. Right.
18:55
That's anxiety. Right. You know, somebody, you
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know, somebody say, you know, you know, they
19:02
just a little off. Right. You know, that could
19:05
be talking about somebody who experiencing psychosis
19:07
or somebody that kind of talks to themselves,
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you know. So we have had language to deal with
19:13
these things. Right. But there are so many reasons
19:17
why. And I don't want to make this just a motivation
19:19
issue. There are so many reasons why people have
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not always dealt with it with the standard. medical
19:25
community to address mental health difficulties.
19:27
That's a long history of how brown people and
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black people have been conceptualized within
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those communities, how they have been treated.
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So I think there are very real reasons why people
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have not always directly addressed mental health
19:43
in those ways. But we have used community. We
19:46
have used our churches to address those things.
19:50
So I think what we're starting to see now is...
19:53
do think is generational the younger generation
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they're much more likely to seek out services
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within the the medical community and the the
20:04
therapeutic community um where my grandma grandma's
20:08
not gonna do that she ain't gonna do that um
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but yet and still she has had ways of coping
20:13
right and and i think it's important to say that
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when we deal with trauma and deal with our mental
20:20
health difficulties Dealing is such a broad term.
20:23
I, from the standpoint, I don't believe everybody
20:26
has to go to therapy. Some people believe that.
20:29
I tell my clients when I was doing therapeutic
20:32
work, you weren't born with a therapist. My role
20:35
in your life is temporary. My role in your life
20:38
is get you to baselines, help build up community
20:40
so that those natural coping can kick in. But
20:44
I do think we're at a place now where people.
20:47
You got to think about how the pendulum swings.
20:49
Either people are all the way in or all the way
20:52
out. And I think what people are doing now is
20:55
we're talking about mental health. We're using
20:58
the terms, you know, you can go on TikTok and
21:01
diagnose yourself and YouTube. But what people
21:05
aren't doing is they're using these clinical
21:06
terms without maybe a full knowledge. And then
21:09
they are using those terms in a way that allows
21:12
them or that promotes them staying in those maladaptive
21:16
patterns. Awareness of anxiety doesn't mean that
21:21
that anxiety, we just sit in it. Now that we
21:23
are aware of it, what are we going to do about
21:25
it, right? You may have anxiety that prevents
21:28
you from moving forward in particular areas of
21:31
your life, from addressing certain things, and
21:33
that is very real. That needs to be acknowledged
21:35
and validated. And we're going to do that. But
21:38
once we do that, now we have to build skills
21:41
and community to deal with it. And I think that's
21:44
the place where we need. our adults to go because
21:48
when they're able to go there they're able to
21:50
model those things for children i'm so glad you
21:53
said that so bringing it to our kids dealing
21:57
with trauma tell us what because a lot of our
22:05
older generation have dealt with trauma and have
22:08
not dealt with trauma what should we be looking
22:11
for in our children that are have experienced
22:15
trauma So I always say this. Children will show
22:20
you before they tell you. Right. And unfortunately,
22:26
we conceptualize a lot of the misbehaviors, the
22:32
acting out as they just bad. Right. You know,
22:36
you know, you just need a whooping, you know,
22:38
or, you know, we. We have this as a poor behavior
22:45
and decision issue, but these children are asking
22:48
you for help, right? So when we have children
22:51
who may be noncompliant, aggressive, children
22:57
that are defiant, fear does not always look like,
23:01
you know? We have a lot of anxious kids. And
23:05
anxiety, you know, we have that fight, flight,
23:08
or freeze response. Some of our children lash
23:10
out. Some of them pull in, and some of them just,
23:14
like, don't know what to do, right? So I think
23:17
when you ask the question, what are we looking
23:19
for in our children, I think we have to start
23:21
looking at those behavior markers. And I always
23:24
say, and this is the way I talk about my kids
23:28
and my parents when I work with them, I believe
23:30
people do the best that they can with where they
23:32
are. I believe we are motivated to seek things
23:37
from our environment. So if I have a kid who
23:40
is constantly acting out, constantly acting out,
23:43
if I have a kid who's really withdrawn, even
23:46
those developmental delays, developmental delays
23:49
are also significantly tied to traumatic events.
23:53
We have a lot of kids who have speech delays
23:56
and those type things. When I'm seeing those
23:58
things, I am asking myself, one, what happened
24:02
to you? And two, what is the benefit of this
24:05
that you're doing right now? Wow. Right? And
24:08
so I need to figure out what happened, and I
24:11
need to figure out what's the gain. And if I
24:14
figure out what happened, I can target the root.
24:16
And if I figure out what's the gain, then I can
24:19
start helping you achieve that goal in a much
24:22
more productive manner for the environment. So
24:26
I want to ask, you know, we continue to say trauma
24:30
and trauma exposed. What are, I think, folks,
24:34
you know. you know, think about major issues
24:39
like dealing with death, dealing with, you know,
24:44
can you give us some of the types of traumas
24:47
that could... lead to a child possibly acting
24:52
out? Yes. So, all right, I'm going to give you
24:54
the clinical term, and then we're just going
24:56
to make it real simple, okay? So when we say
24:59
a traumatic event, that is when a child or an
25:02
individual experiences, directly or indirectly,
25:06
experiences meaning it happened to me, my person,
25:09
my being, or I witnessed it happen to someone
25:12
else, and through that experience, they believe
25:15
their life was in danger or a serious threat.
25:18
And so you oftentimes feel emotions of fear,
25:22
helplessness, hopelessness. And your ability
25:25
to cope with that thing is overwhelmed, right?
25:28
Because I think it's really important to level
25:30
set and help us understand that just because
25:32
you experience something really scary doesn't
25:36
mean that you're going to have a traumatic reaction.
25:39
The trauma is the event. But when you are traumatized,
25:45
that is looking at your reaction to that event.
25:48
We can have two different children who live in
25:51
the same house, go through the same thing, and
25:54
one is just like, I mean, yeah, it was real bad,
25:56
but, you know, I mean, I got through it. Yeah.
25:59
Right? And then you have one kid that's like,
26:01
yeah, it was real bad, and I'm stuck. Now, one
26:04
kid isn't better than the other. They're no different.
26:07
They have different reactions. Yes. And so trauma
26:10
is the event. Our response is that traumatic
26:14
reaction, right? And so people oftentimes think
26:18
of trauma as the big tease, you know. Physical
26:22
abuse, any type of abuse, domestic violence,
26:25
being in a storm can be a big T. Going through
26:28
a traumatic storm, a car accident, a dog bite,
26:31
all those things can be traumatic. However, there
26:33
are also little T's that we can go through. And
26:36
we look at these as distressing events. Parent
26:40
conflictual interactions. Maybe nobody was fighting
26:43
at my house, but everybody was always yelling.
26:45
And I didn't know what was going to happen. That
26:47
can be a little tea. Food insecurity. Not knowing
26:51
where things are going to be. Not knowing where
26:53
you're going to lay your head. Housing insecurity.
26:56
All those things can be, and I wouldn't even
26:58
say those little teas, but they're just things
27:00
that people oftentimes don't think about. Having
27:02
a parent who's incarcerated can also be traumatizing
27:05
for some kids. Bullying at school. So the bottom
27:11
line is you define what's traumatic for you.
27:15
I don't define it. Nobody else can define it.
27:18
You define what's traumatic to you, and then
27:21
we look at your response to that event. What
27:25
are some self -care matters for caregivers of
27:31
traumatic children? So this is the thing, I think,
27:36
with self -care when it comes to addressing the
27:40
trauma of your children or the trauma of yourself,
27:42
right? So I think one thing we realize is that
27:46
when a traumatic event happens, let's imagine
27:49
it like a flame, right? Like a fire. You know,
27:52
life has happened. You're trying to put this
27:54
fire out, but all the things I'm doing is just
27:56
not working, right? And so we have kids who are
27:59
triggered all over the place. They're flaming.
28:01
You have parents who are triggered all over the
28:03
place. They're flaming. And I say fire plus fire
28:05
equals a hot mess, right? And that's what we
28:08
get a lot in homes where people are dealing with
28:12
intense mental health or life crises. It's just
28:16
fires everywhere. It's an intense environment.
28:18
So we have to find some water to put it out.
28:21
And that's what our self -care is all about.
28:24
Self -care, we have kind of worded it down to
28:27
I'm going to go get my nails done. I'm going
28:29
to go buy a new outfit. I'm going to go hang
28:32
out with my girlfriends. All those things can
28:34
be self -care. Come on, but tell the truth. You
28:37
know? So, hey, you can slide some extra money
28:40
in somebody's wallet, you know, be a blessing.
28:42
But also I think the significance of self -care
28:46
for adults who are traumatized and working with
28:49
trauma -exposed children is that you actually
28:51
provide space for. people to regulate and heal.
28:55
That is what you're doing. That is why self -care
28:58
is so essential. This is not just a fad term,
29:02
but it's an essential part of the healing process.
29:04
If you're always escalated, how can you de -escalate
29:08
a child? If mama is always or daddy is always
29:11
tense, how can a child look at you to help co
29:14
-regulate? So somebody has to bring down the
29:17
temperature, have to ground themselves. rejuvenate
29:22
so that they can be an anchor for the family.
29:25
And that's what self -care allows adults to do.
29:28
That's great. That's awesome. Honey, this is
29:31
some good stuff. I'm over here just a grinning.
29:36
That's powerful. That's powerful because I always
29:40
use this as an example. And I hope you know what
29:43
I'm going to say. Prince of Tides. Have you seen
29:45
that movie? Prince of Tides. Oh. Anyway, it's
29:50
a great movie, and it's dealing with childhood
29:53
trauma. There was some prisoners that broke loose,
29:58
broke in the house. I have seen that movie. That
30:00
is a good movie. I always identify with that
30:03
because of trauma experience. Not that, but trauma
30:07
experience is a child that's not dealt with.
30:10
That it was hushed up and they went on with life.
30:14
And just like you said, one reacted one way.
30:17
But even him being okay, Nick Nolte, him being
30:21
okay was not okay. But his sister dealt with
30:26
it in a totally different way. And then they
30:29
went, there was a therapist who was trying to
30:35
figure out what's going on with your sister.
30:36
And she began to... be with him and realize the
30:40
trauma that they all had not dealt with. Oh,
30:43
wow. But it is, it is, it is really sad. It is
30:48
a heavy movie. It's very, very heavy. It's, I've
30:51
only seen it like once, but I never forgot it.
30:54
Yes. And so, you know, our children, our children
30:59
are dealing with things. Even when we try to
31:02
keep them awake, because my mom and them, they
31:04
never talked to us about bills. We never knew
31:06
what was going on. But we knew when something
31:09
was wrong. Yes. Yeah. We knew when it wasn't
31:12
right. And so I encourage everyone to deal with
31:20
trauma that's in your life. Because even when
31:26
you think it's not affecting you, it is. For
31:28
sure. And I wanted to say, even about that, I
31:32
think sometimes our response as adults when we
31:37
go through is to make sure our children never
31:39
go through, right? And so we then begin to build
31:43
this idea in our head that, you know, if my daddy
31:48
was violent and aggressive towards my mom, I'm
31:51
never going to raise my voice, right? I don't
31:53
deal with conflict. You know, I don't fuss. Or,
31:57
you know, if I had a lot of housing instability
32:00
or different things, I'm going to make sure my
32:02
children have all these things that I never had.
32:05
And I think those things are very noble and we
32:08
do want to create healthy environments. But I
32:10
also want to. remind everyone that trauma lives
32:13
in us. Our body remembers. And so you may not
32:18
put them in that same environment, but some of
32:21
those ways you cope. I don't fuss, but I just
32:24
avoid all conflict. So no one ever knows how
32:27
to resolve anything in our family. If there's
32:29
an issue, we don't yell about it, but we don't
32:31
deal with it, right? So as adults, even if your
32:34
children are not in those environments, we have
32:36
to heal so we model positive things for them.
32:39
That's it. I know you're going to have to come
32:43
back. Yeah, you're going to have to come back
32:45
and give us some more time. So how can people
32:48
I'm not sure exactly what you're practicing,
32:51
but how can people find you? How can people get
32:54
in touch with you? So awesome. Thank you for
32:57
asking. So I do not. Take direct clients, which
33:02
means I don't do therapy. There are a lot of
33:05
great providers in our area. But if you do have
33:10
an organization and you are in need of training,
33:15
consulting, I'm going through a rebrand right
33:18
now on my website. But my website is www .hire
33:23
-horizons .com. That's the best way of getting
33:41
in contact with me. Reach out. I love to talk
33:44
about training and consulting opportunities for
33:47
your organization or ministry. She'll be back
33:51
on the show. Yes, she will. Okay. Thank you so
33:53
much for being on the show. You have been listening
33:56
to Liverpool. Talking.