Latest / Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew / England 4-2 Croatia! Tuchel's Half-Time Masterclass & France Favourites | Outside the Box

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England 4-2 Croatia! Tuchel's Half-Time Masterclass & France Favourites | Outside the Box · Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew

• 0:16
  This episode of Outside the Box is sponsored by Bellam and Joinson Solicitas. We're delighted to bring on BLJ as our first ever sponsors of the podcast. And especially with some of the opinions that Ozzy and Tony come up with, it probably seems sensible to bring a legal partner on board first. For more than 200 years, Bellam and Joinson have been helping people across Liverpool for all of their life decisions. Whether it's expert family law, conveyancing, wills and probates, or sorting disputes, their team is there when it matters most.
• 0:43
  A lot has changed since 1821, but their commitment to helping people has never waned. Bell Lamb and Joyce and Solicitors, by your side since 1821. To find out more, visit bljsolicitors.co.uk. On the top. Yeah, so a few late nights, Aussie. Yeah.
• 1:02
  You tired of those? Yeah. Why? A few late nights. Yeah, it's not been easy, to be honest. That's why I'm late. I've got a legitimate excuse. My body clock is all over the place at the minute. Those two o'clock in the morning games. Which games did you work? Two till four. What time does your night start? What time are you leaving the house? 11? No. Midnight. Midnight.
• 1:27
  Basically getting there for one. So I'm getting there for, well, at that time, traffic's great. Brilliant. So I'm getting there, it's like 20 to one, and then the game kicks off at two. Two till four. I did Iran, New Zealand. To be fair, I did back-to-back two o'clock in the morning games. Um...
• 1:43
  Both of them were very good, actually. They were really good games. Iran-New Zealand was actually dead competitive. Two teams. Yeah, two teams going at it. Yeah, it was like watching a good old school, not being disrespectful, championship game or something along them lines where they don't want to overplay. They're just getting the ball out of their feet. They're knocking it forward. Big men, Chris Wood holding the ball up, bringing people into play. Good.
• 2:11
  Good game in that sense. They weren't messing around. And then the next night, once I started to get my body clock in tune, it was like a zombie talk. And that Iran game, there was the amount of times that the commentator came to me and I just didn't have any words. It's not like you should be lost for words. I just couldn't find the words. I was like a zombie. Wish you were like that on this one sometimes. Or trying to find an intelligent word and just kept coming out with the and it and stuff like that. It was tough. Signed.
• 2:39
  But then the following night, I got my body clock a little bit better, slept in late, tried to have an afternoon nap. So by the time I got to kick-off, I was actually feeling a lot better. I don't know if I sounded a lot better. So you're fully a bit better. To watch Messi score his first World Cup hat-trick, Argentina, Algeria, good game now. Very good. That was a good game. Well, it was a good game. It was good to watch him. I mean, he's 38, he's 39 next week.
• 3:09
  Is he didn't know that? Yeah, he's 39 during the tournament. He's 39 and yet he still brings in the crowd. They were like bowing to him, the crowd, because he paid a lot of money to see Messi play in a World Cup and he didn't disappoint. Oh, doesn't he? Zidane's kid helped him. The lad in goal, Luka Zidane. He made a cutlet. Should have saved. They've got Algerian descent. I know Zidane has, but I didn't know someone's at Algerian. They've got Algerian hockey.
• 3:38
  Yeah. No, I didn't know that either. Yeah, yeah. I'd do my homework when I'm doing a bit of college. You know what I mean? There's no need about any other teams. He's been watching since he was 12. He's been massively impressed with them. Obviously, not many people stayed up to watch the two o'clock in the morning. I've got a lot of info. But he should have stopped the first two. But taking that away from Messi, he just still has that magic. Are you surprised that he's going to score the hat-trick at that age? Or should we still be expecting that from Messi?
• 4:06
  I'm never surprised with anything he does anymore. He's just magic. But the team, like they did four years ago, so you shouldn't be surprised. The team are just centred around him. He walks around the pitch. He does a token closing down every now and again, but he doesn't do loads of it.
• 4:24
  But he's in the right place at the right time. Every time someone in the team gets the ball, they see, where is he? We'll pass it to him. I mean, his third goal, they win the ball back on the halfway line, play it to him inside the D. Then they all make runs. He makes a pass off. And then as soon as the lad gets it, they're like, where is he again? They pass it back to him. Then he goes to the other side, down the left. And you think...
• 4:46
  Was it Alvarez or whoever it was down the left? You think he's going to drop his shoulder and go, nope. He turned back and passed it straight back to Messi. The whole team is centred around him. They got great success from it last time, but it means you're Letaro Martinez, you're Julian Alvarez, those playing up front. They've got to buy into it. It's not about me scoring goals. It's about getting the best for Messi. But they did it four years ago and won the World Cup. So probably try and do it again.
• 5:11
  Yeah. You see Portugal, looking at Ronaldo, he hasn't really hit the heights of what Messi has in his first game. Well, it was... The opposition, though, as well. It's who you're facing. You know, they were tough, the Congo side, last night. You wouldn't have said that before the game, though, would you? I know, mate, but they were physical. I've got to give it to all the African nations. They defend really well and they're all well set up. They defend all really strong, robust athletes, and they just...
• 5:38
  They all play to their strengths. I just think you've got to give them credit. Some intelligent players as well, though. There was a game, Tony's Watch, 6 o'clock kickoff. So that was a reasonable time. Let's talk at length about this one. You tune in to watch the greatness. I wasn't awake from Messi and he's obviously the god of football.
• 5:59
  But I just feel you play against your opposition. I think it's really hard for some of these teams like Portugal to come in. And Portugal possibly have got every right to say, we've got the best midfield in the world. But the players they've got in the middle of that park who can take play and do what they can do, they can open anyone up.
• 6:18
  But when you've got a team that sits in this fancy called the no block, listen, you just sit deep. Just stop all this nonsense talk. It's football jargon. They sit deep and they make it hard for you. And I feel like they weren't good enough. I still expected more from them in the way I did. From who? Ronaldo? From Portugal in general. I still expected more. Did you see Thierry Henry's criticism of Ronaldo? No, I did say. The bit of stuff he did. He basically called him out and said...
• 6:47
  He's being selfish and he's trying to score for himself rather than making sure the team score. He kept running into places that Bruno Fernandes, as an attacking midfielder, would naturally run into. And he's telling Bruno you can hear it on the pitch. Yeah. He's shouting at Bruno as well. Rather than being in a place a striker should be for a tap-in because the ball might not come and he's getting...
• 7:07
  kind of in the way because he wants to score rather than a team scoring and Sieri called him out and called him selfish. Is that a team set up thing though because we've just said you know Argentina have built around Messi we've probably done the same with Kane is that because Portugal have built their team not to be centred around Ronaldo and that's why it's a selfish act because other players are doing it and it's
• 7:28
  Maybe, but I think that's the difficult one because I was talking to my son and my brother last night and my dad about Bruno Fernandes must be getting mad because for the last five years at least, you'd expect, I know Cristiano Ronaldo is...
• 7:48
  amazing, one of the best players the world's ever seen. But Bruno's probably been in his peak for five years now and would have expected to have been the captain, taken every free kick, doing this, and he does when Ronaldo's not in the team, but he's still fighting against it. The team should be built around Bruno. Yeah, that's down to Roberto Martinez. And that's down to...
• 8:08
  You're managing an all-one of your players. I'm sorry, that can never happen. Carlo Ancelotti wouldn't let that happen. No. But Roberto Martinez has. So, I think that's the top and bottom of that one. I think Roberto Manos needs to have a good World Cup because he didn't do particularly well with Belgium. I mean, the squad they had as well. Wow. You know, Romello, Lukaku. He called that the golden generation of Belgian football, didn't he? I think it's gone because they're all past it now.
• 8:33
  Belgium, yeah, well, the Belgium team isn't as good now, you'd say, as it was. As it was when he had them. As it was a while back, yeah. Because he had the lot, he had the Broner at full peak, Lukaku at full peak, Trent. Hazard. Hazard playing. Sane. Witzel. Yeah.
• 8:49
  you know, people like that. Big players. Yeah, they have. And he's moved to Portugal, who have got a great team. I think he was in charge for the Euros a couple of years back. He was. It didn't go as well as they were. It's his second tournament with Ronaldo. He's got his contract till the end of this tournament and the press have been asking him, you know,
• 9:06
  Should we talk about that? You could be out of the job, depend. And he's quite relaxed about it in terms of that's just how long my contract is. That's how long it's going for. And the big rumour was that Jose Mourinho was literally ready, handshake signed to go in after this tournament. And he's now decided... Real Madrid. Yeah, fair play to him. And you watch how he manages them because he'll have no messing around him.
• 9:33
  I have no message. You think he's still got it? Yeah, 100%. Straight away he'll have conflict with players. And as long as the Madrid hierarchy back him, he's going to be okay. They're after Enzo Fernandes and he's come out and said he's a huge target for him. They've just announced that they've just signed Bernardo Silva, Kukureya. So it does seem like... I mean, they're going for a diminutive team with those players coming in. I mean, Real Madrid were always...
• 10:02
  The Galacticos, they were brilliant, but they were quite physical. Even if you go back to the likes of Figo, making that big one, he's still a big guy. He's got a presence. Yeah, you know, they usually have a good size. Barcelona, you imagine, are the ticky-tacky smaller. Overballers. Yeah, those kind of players. But we'll see. We'll see. I think he'll do a good job. I think Modinho will take them back up where they've never left, really. They're always there.
• 10:28
  I don't know if he will, to be honest. Look, they're Real Madrid. They will compete to the latter stages of the Champions League. They'll have a good goal winning the league. I just don't know if he'll bring them back to that powerhouse juggernaut that we've known them as. I just think he'll defensively make them more robust. And that's why I think the only thing they like, because going forward, they've got everything. As I said before, and I'll say again, I think Tew Bellingham is the difference.
• 10:55
  I've said it before and I've told you all my opinions on him there we go I will happily remind you of what I've said I will bask in the glory but that boy is special and in the Real Madrid I'm telling you the boys can end up the greatest English player of all time let's talk about him because he had a good game last night what did you like about him?
• 11:18
  Just the fact of everything was going with him and through. First of all, did you stay up late for the game? Did you stay up late? You can't classify that as late now. It seems like it is. I watched every single second of the match last night with me, with three out of my four sons. So, yeah, it was very...
• 11:36
  Good football to watch. And listen, I mean, are we to question Thomas Tuchel? I think these players that he's left out now, no one is really talking. Could it have been a different story though? First half is 2-1, which wouldn't have been an awful start to the game against Croatia. And we did bounce back in the second half and we were much better. But were you a little bit nervous when it was 2-1 at half-time? What did you think? I'm not going to lie. My only worry, and I don't want to say this because I think he's an absolutely amazing player,
• 12:06
  But Nico O'Reilly got caught out of position. And I thought, he looked, I think he's an amazing footballer going forward. And I think he is the best left back we have, by the way. So he has to start. But I'm telling you, mate, you can see a difference when he's playing for City and when he's playing for England. I know we've harped on what likes of Foden and all,
• 12:25
  these people they don't fit into a system but he got caught out of position a couple of times and one of them cost us the equaliser was on his side I'm sorry and without calling him out and I'm not because what I know about football you can write on the back of a first class stamp and still have room for the Lord's Prayer but I'm just saying what I've seen last night
• 12:44
  I agree with he was out of position for their first goal. But that seemed to me more of a tactical thing, being told by the manager where to be rather than him just wandering it. Do you think he's getting told to get up that pitch as fast as you can?
• 13:02
  Well, he kept engaging because they were kind of wing-backs a little bit at times. He kept engaging right at the top of the pitch and John Stones was moving over to left-back. And if you go watch that first half again, the amount of times John Stones found himself 1v1 in a left-back area was too many. For us as nervous fans watching your team, you don't want your centre-halves in the full-back area being exposed in that sense. So...
• 13:28
  Yeah, I did sort of get a little bit concerned. Did you notice it? Yeah, definitely, yeah. Just happy the footballer sees it. I was actually screaming it at the telly about five minutes before we actually conceded from it. But it was a tactical thing that came with its advantages as well. And, you know, I thought...
• 13:48
  in possession. I thought he did quite well. I thought he was good. Just got caught out there. I don't think he did in the second half. I think he was probably told the half-time to start from a little bit deeper. Don't wander in there too early because if you think about the second half, he wasn't in there. And that's...
• 14:06
  That's a tactical tweak. That's very good from the England manager. I just really enjoyed it. We started the game well. Two set-piece goals. You start by going, here we are. Here we are. We're Arsenal. We're Arsenal. We're Arsenal. That's it. Two set-piece goals. We can only score set-pieces. Declan Rice is brilliant. He's exceptional. He's a great corner. I thought he was brilliant last night, Declan Rice.
• 14:30
  He was concerned when he went off because he looked like he was... Yeah, he looked a little bit injured, yeah. You'd never expect us to take him off in that way. He had shin pads on both sides of his leg. What I will say is, at this stage, as long as an injury to anybody, because Harry Kane was seen with the strap on his and ice and all that after the game, as long as...
• 14:50
  as long as it's not a two-week, three-week injury. You've got to manage it. Anything you can manage, because you win the first game, you expect you should have enough to actually see our way through. What can be of a two-week or three-week injury? You can tweak a hamstring. And that's only two or three weeks? Yeah, because of the speed I played with throughout my career, Tony. This is when Leon's obviously clearly taking the piss. Because Leon loved to play walking football. Absolutely.
• 15:16
  No, Liam was the king of it. It may have looked like I love to play walking football. It wasn't my intent to play walking football. I pulled my hamstring once. I'd have tweaked it once. That was running the bar. That wasn't on the floor. It was, yeah. Tell them how you did it on the trampoline. Did it on the trampoline? No, we don't. What did you do on the trampoline? We don't like to talk about what I got up to on the trampoline. We'll leave that for another day.
• 15:44
  so we've got a two to three week injury no you can tweak your hamstring and you can be back in eight days if it's literally a grade one
• 15:53
  You can sort of get back out depending on the... But it's different grades. Grade one, grade two, grade three. Grade one, you can... Two weeks, you can get back in. She doesn't even worry you when you hear them saying about Bakayo Saka's Achilles tendon. Yeah, that sounds serious. I've snuck, man. I'm telling you now, mate. That's a bit... Like, you know, should he even be there? He come on and he was brilliant, by the way. I mean, the pass to find Rashford was exceptional.
• 16:18
  Yeah, he looked sharp when he came on. It's just something you manage because if you get, you can have tendonitis. I had tendonitis in my knee after I had the ACL and took the bit of stuff there. You can manage it. It's really sore at times. And after the games, it's incredibly painful.
• 16:34
  No, I wouldn't encourage an injection in tendons and ligaments. No, absolutely not. You do that in bones. If you've got a broken toe, I have plenty of them and injections in them or I had a broken rib on occasion. I had an injection in my hand for every single professional fight in my career. Did you? Did you? So you couldn't actually feel it. That's why you probably looked like it. That's why you won. My right arm was fractured and I never, ever had time to get it operated on. So I'd always be okay in camp.
• 17:03
  because I'd be able to strap my hands a certain way, and the surgeon made me a cast that I could train in, and the cast used to keep my wrist and hand in place. But every single fight, I would have a painkillin injection in my hand. No way. That's okay. That's legal. It's legal, yes. It's fine.
• 17:19
  You want to get one in your forehead and your coupler in both your cheeks? Get them everywhere, yeah? Thanks for that, Ross. There's nothing wrong with me cheeks. And they're considerably younger looking than yours. You pick on someone your own size. Ouch. Fair enough. Consider them with the same age.
• 17:35
  Another player who did look a little bit injured when he was coming off, I think, was Rashford, even though he had an amazing game he was holding. Oh, I didn't notice that. Did Rashford come off? No, not after the game, at the end of the game. I thought he was brilliant when he came on. Yeah, oh, he was brilliant. He just looked like he was. I didn't notice. I think quite often people, you know, if they're feeling anything, will just ice it up after the game. I don't always think that's a huge concern. Yeah.
• 18:01
  But we looked good. At the first half, I was okay with...
• 18:06
  Sorry, the one thing that frustrated me in the first half was the way we conceded the second goal on halftime. First goal was a tactical thing. We got done, gave the ball away in a poor area. Their second goal on halftime. But we had all 11 players behind the ball. Harry Kane was deep, and he was still seven, eight, nine yards away from the player that played the forward pass. And he was only 15 yards from our box. We were in a row of...
• 18:35
  of seven or eight on the back Bellingham was in the long side of the centre half I was screaming at the telly get forward Kane get you've got to put Brett why is he so deep that's part of what he does isn't it frustrating when you're forwards on the edge of your own box a number of times last night I thought why are you on the edge of the box
• 18:53
  Yeah, no, look, it is, but that frustrated me at the last World Cup and it frustrated me at the Euros as well when we were defending. But that's sort of become who he is and identity. Now we have wide men that play further forward. But in that moment, we looked like we were nervous and trying to see the half out. And the best thing...
• 19:15
  was how we react. So I was worried and frustrated about that, thinking, here we go again. We get ahead and we feel nervous defending something. The best thing was, one, how England started in the second half and played in the second half, and then, two, hearing the interviews from the players after the game and also Thomas Tuchel and how they said...
• 19:35
  He wasn't happy. And actually, listening to Anthony Barry at halftime in his interview... I was on the show to Moose D'Ascosa, which you know him as. Yeah, yeah. Used to be at Everton as a young lad. Did he? Yeah, never really did anything in his football career yet, but actually found a path at football coaching and has ended up working where he is. He's done incredibly well and is well-respected in the coaching world. Brilliant. And he come out at halftime, and I don't think anyone was...
• 20:03
  overexcited to hear from him. I think everyone was wanting Thomas Tuchel because sometimes assistant managers, sometimes assistant managers come out and basically... You shouldn't be asking for managers to talk at halftime. That's disgusting. It's just part of the football package and what you pay for. Imagine you're in the, you're in the, you're in the, at halftime, you're in the dressing room and the players are talking, waiting for the gaffer to come in and he goes, lads, he's just doing an interview for a minute. Yeah, fair. I'm professional as well. Yeah, no, but it's now part of the modern consciousness of football in terms of, Premier League asks for it, they'll,
• 20:31
  In many games now, one of the players will be late into the dressing room. It's not on, no. He's got to go and do it.
• 20:37
  Imagine you're losing 1-0, and the gaffer wants to give someone a good bollock, or someone needs to tell them, or you're the skipper, you've captained our club. Imagine they go to you, right, the gaffer's telling something, and they go, right, Leon, we just want you to speak to the team for five minutes. It's frustrating, because it happens after the game, you know, flash interviews straight after the game, and players now miss out on team talks, or celebrations, or, you know, commiserations, whatever it is that happen after the game, you miss it because you do, and you talk to the press. But...
• 21:07
  the more money that's injected into the game, there's going to be more demands from the media. Players are getting paid more, so they're okay with the things that come there. It doesn't mean they can overstep them. That's overstepping the mark, in my opinion. Yeah. I get it after the game, but during the game, or someone gets subbed these days, and sometimes they don't on Sky, and then they're straight, straight, straight on the box. Managers will tell you they don't like it. Players will tell you they'd rather do without it. But...
• 21:30
  Vinicius just said we're not doing it. Vinicius said, I'll pay the fine, we're not doing it. Yeah, Iz was an argument over the press conference in general. Because, well, you know, probably escalated. But they, when they were, Hikimi as well for Morocco, both that press conference, Spanish journalism's tried to ask questions in Spanish to, you know, to the Brazil players and Morocco players.
• 22:00
  And they were told by the bosses in charge of that that they only had to speak English. Ask the question in English, English, English. And then I can't know. I don't know the exact thing, but, you know, they all speak that. So in the end, I think Vinnie Jr. started to speak in Portuguese only or there was some sort of Portuguese because that was his native language. And he's right. And he also said at the end...
• 22:22
  frustratingly, he said, this tournament isn't just hosted in English-speaking countries, it's hosted in Mexico as well. Yeah. It's one of the hosts in Mexico. So why are we having to speak only in that... Speak in your native tongue, we don't care what you want. In that language, so... Imagine, just to put it into an other way, imagine like in between the rounds, the Sky Sports or the Zone, imagine the Zone go, right Tony, we're just going to speak to the coach. There are other companies out there as well, for anyone who's listening. Yeah, there is. You just think to yourself, imagine, you know,
• 22:51
  the zone go to my corner in between the rounds. We want to have a little chat with your corner. Yeah. What do you mean? In between the round. I've got 60 seconds to talk to him here and get some instructions off him, but you want to talk to him? We're paying. You know what I mean? We're paying the big money to put this fight on. Listen, mate, that's wrong.
• 23:06
  It would be more for you, Jordan, while you're back in the ring and the cornermen sat there watching, it would be more an interview then. So we'd be basically talking over your actual round, let's just say round five, the cornermen talking over. It would be strange. It would be incredible insight. And I tell you what, now you've said it. Don't be giving them ideas. Now you've said it, there's a chance that will happen. Let's just say within five years' time, within 10 years' time, that could happen.
• 23:31
  Never happened. Because first of all, he's going to speak to the fighter, only the coach and the fighter speak. And then also the coach, 90% of the tap is the one giving him the drink. Yeah, but during the rounds, but while the boxers are out in the round and the cornermen and people are just watching the fight. No, it does happen in between rounds. Yeah, it happens. But I mean, it does happen while the round's going on.
• 23:53
  I've seen a cameraman speak to him. So I've seen that happen and I'm okay with that because he's watching the fight. He can carry on watching the fight, but he's talking and saying what he's seeing, but not in between the minute round. And I just feel it's exactly the same for footballers. You've got 15 minutes that the coach needs to get his instructions across to the team. That is so important. It could be the smallest detail that he's given or that someone can miss and he hasn't got enough time to get it across. Or his mind could be somewhere else walking into an interview.
• 24:19
  to being wary of what he says and then all of a sudden he goes back into the dressing room and forgets about what he's been watching and seeing. Leave the man alone. He's got 15 minutes to direct an instructor's team and get the best out of his players. He's got to go in there and be thinking of nothing else but...
• 24:34
  What have I got to tell you about? Well, they did it really well because Thomas Tuchel obviously kept his mind set on what they were doing and Andy Barry... He didn't look happy, us. ...went and did the interview and he was... He didn't look happy, that lad, the scouser. He was... No, he wasn't. That's the point. He was actually... We were 2-2. It's great to see. Conceited right on half-time.
• 24:52
  And they were quite critical of our mindset and decision-making and things like that. And I thought, oh, I kind of like that, actually. But then the team talk they gave at half-time and what the players came out and said after the game, what Thomas Tuchel himself admitted to was that,
• 25:10
  That talk was the exact reason why he's been brought in to actually try and take us a step further. Because he came out and he said, why are you playing so scared? Why are you dropping back? He actually then mentioned, why are we so deep? We've got seven players behind the ball. Why do we feel like we need to hold on to something? We need to go out and if we're going to, by playing that manner, by playing that mindset, if we're going to lose, we'll lose playing our way. Go on, get the next goal. Stop.
• 25:34
  Is that what Tucho said? Yeah, stop feeling like you need to hold on to something. I don't want that. Go out, push forward, go lose. If we're going to lose, we're going to lose being exciting and impressive and lose our weight. Now, get out there and be yourselves. Each one of the players looked like they grew a foot in the dressing. When they came out for the second half, they all looked a foot taller.
• 25:56
  The intensity we played at, which we know we can play at, was too much for Croatia to handle. We should have potentially scored three goals in five minutes. It would have been great had we had scored three goals in five minutes. But actually, sometimes if you score the first goal and then you score the second goal, your intensity kind of drops. But our intensity stayed for a good 15, 20 minutes. So that's why it was so exciting. If we'd have scored, it might not have been. We'd be scored enough.
• 26:21
  It was just a great watch. I went to bed as soon as I finished. I didn't hear the comments after it and I didn't listen to them. I had a lot of catch-up on them. But I made up he said that and come out and being openly honest because you wouldn't have got that in the past. All you guys, we've won 4-2, whatever's up, brilliant, fantastic. But he's come out and he's hit them head on and gone, he's told them. And that's brilliant. I think it was a mixture of...
• 26:45
  anger and frustration about certain things, but also it seemed a calmness and assurance. Let's just be ourselves. You don't need to, you know, basically, I felt listening to everybody that with his body manner and the way he's verbally spoken,
• 27:03
  it just relaxed everybody and took the tension out of it, took the nervousness out of the situation. And suddenly you allow our players, you can take the tension and nervousness out of the performance of our team. Wow. We've got a team. And obviously then we progressed. You get to...
• 27:20
  you know, the fourth quarter now as we're getting to corner. What do you think about them? Not liking them. Wired me off, no. I mean, I do think they're needed, mate. It is hot out there. Look, they're needed in some games. They're not needed in all games. I mean, you can ask the question of the England players and the Croatian players yesterday, but that game's played inside a stadium that is...
• 27:45
  temperature sort of regulated. 21 degrees. Do you know what I mean? So the temperature's regulated in there. When you're going to play in an open stadium, when we play in... When you see France play early in New York when it's ridiculously hot, yeah. It's not for hydration breaks, but...
• 28:02
  I don't think they're necessary all the time. Yeah, but they're going to say if you stop for one game, why can't you stop? The team's going to moan. Yeah, true. They're becoming huge momentum changes. It happened to us in that game. I thought we were good up until the high-graduation break in the first half and then ended up on the back foot after it when managers can make changes. Now, have a watch.
• 28:25
  as well, in the second half, the amount of teams that make one or more likely a double substitution within one minute to two minutes before the hydration break, because what actually happens is...
• 28:37
  they'll make a double sub. And quite often a manager will make a double substitution and he wants to try and send it because he's seen something, he's going to tactically change something and he's trying to send the information on through the players. Whereas now he makes a double substitution just before the hydration break and then explains to the whole team exactly what's happening and what's going on. It's clever, isn't it? So it is. Players, managers, people in the game will always stretch the rules as far as they possibly can. And that's just a little one. I think it's tactical and just... I was listening to the radio on the way in
• 29:07
  and I just feel we're losing football a little bit. I just think the Mavericks are going. I don't see any Mavericks anymore. I don't see... I listened to it and they were talking about Kaká being the first Brazilian footballer who adapted and became a European-style footballer, if that makes sense. The fella who wasn't, you know, the skills, they played with that beautiful Brazilian culture and the flair and all them things, even though he was an amazing footballer, Ballon d'Or winner.
• 29:34
  But then we just missed, you know, are we ever going to see an R9 or Ronaldinho again? Because football, I feel, players, you know. Players, them too. I just, were we ever going to see them again? Well, look, years ago, you know, you go back to far earlier than any of us can remember. You've just explained the tactics. Yeah, you're right. So we go back to far earlier than any of us can remember, maybe than anyone can remember. You go back to what it was in its infancy. It was each...
• 30:04
  each country were basically playing in their own country and you took your styles and, you know, your way of playing and had to go against other people. And then even in the 70s, 80s, 60s, 70s, 80s, it was kind of the Brazilians and South Americans all played in South America. The, you know, the main Europeans played in their own countries as did, you know, Scandinavians. Everybody played kind of where they are. It was taking different cultures and having them play against each other. But because of what football has become now...
• 30:33
  everybody's playing in the kind of the same leagues because that's where the money is. So they're all playing a very similar style of football depending on what the manager there is teaching them because they're only with their country and international teams, you know, a couple of weeks every year. So do you think that the money's ruined the culture for football? No, no.
• 30:54
  I think it's just a different style, even though, because look, you generally will be, and even this is changing, but you generally will be brought up in your country until you're 15 years old. So your basics and your fundamentals, you'll grow up Brazilian, you'll play street football, you'll grow up Argentina, you'll grow up English where, you know,
• 31:15
  I didn't kick it. I'm not sure, no. But nowadays, you look at the World Cup. It's taking them at 10 and 12 years of old ages. Yeah. And ours are getting overly coached because it's in England, but they're getting picked up by clubs at six years of age. So they're getting overly coached. You're right. Whereas, I don't know if they're getting that. They're still playing street football in Brazil.
• 31:37
  The difference, R1 is the likes of... He was into Barca at what age? A baby and he's a proper kid. Young, because he was over there quite early. His parents had to, one of his parents had to move over there with him. But you're then thinking to yourself, he's Maradona.
• 31:51
  Yeah, but our version of that would be Eze in terms of not being within an academy, playing street football up till really late. But even that, going back to the culture I'm talking about there, you look at this World Cup, you've seen the amount of players for every different team that were born in France. Yeah, I saw that. And on top of that, born in Paris. Yeah, crazy. It's like 50 plus maybe? Yeah, it's ridiculous. Born in Paris, yeah. Numerous African teams have got players that were born in France. In a minute, I...
• 32:19
  pretty sure he was born in France, the place of Senegal. So there are so many players that are born. Yeah, heritage. I mean, everybody, that's what it is. You know, go back and don't know why this one's popped in my head. But...
• 32:35
  Kevin Kilban, you know, born in Preston. It's Irish heritage. Not quite Paris. Not quite Paris. But what I'm saying is you can be, you can be, you can have Irish parents, you can have Scottish parents and be born in England. These countries are melting pots and you're just getting all kinds of different nationalities in these countries who are now eligible to play for that country. So yeah, I get it. But ultimately I just feel we're losing football in terms of the cultures in football.
• 33:02
  I just don't see Brazil playing like Brazil used to play. And is that because all the players have left the continents over there and they've come over to Europe? We're just not seeing... That Brazil performance, that wasn't good. That wasn't Brazil. I just don't know if Brazil are the powerhouse that we've always expected them to be. And remember, Brazil won three out of four World Cups around the 50s, 60s, 70s. Brilliant. But then Brazil went...
• 33:30
  an age till 1994 before they won it again. They do have lulls, even though that 1982 team was, I think, I think they're regarded as Brazil's best team that didn't win it. But we grew up again with, you know, our age group, Brazil won it in 94, Brazil won it in 2002. So we're used to like that. The previous generation of Brazil are one of the best teams, but actually they do have lulls and they do go through periods where they've got good players and exciting players and,
• 33:57
  that don't quite do. And I just think that's their squad at the minute. You still see them players in that squad. Even in, even from 94 to 02 and then the 98 one as well, you still see them players that are about the fellas with the skills and the fellas with the, like the Nielsens in them teams, players like that, Ronaldinho, there's like, who is he now? I mean, you're okay. You'll say Neymar, but, I mean,
• 34:20
  you know, I won't say, I mean, should he even be in that squad? But as well, one of the things, touching on what you're saying is, and your previous, your previous comments as well is, one of the things that the World Cup sort of excited you when you're watching Brazil is, you were seeing players on the telly that you hadn't really seen before, and they're Brazilian, and they were doing, wow, I haven't seen that. But,
• 34:42
  You're now saying who Brazil got, they're actually, the guy used to play for Leeds, Rafinha, so they've got Rafinha, we see him all the time playing for Barcelona on the other side, you see them playing, you know, you basically look at Casemiro, you're looking at Bruno Gimardes, you basically see these players every week in the Premier League or the European Leagues, we've got access to seeing them all the time, so then when the World Cup comes around,
• 35:07
  The excitement of, oh, what have Brazil got? What have Argentina got? We kind of know what they've got. We see it every week. That's my exact point. They're not Brazilian players, are they? And have we literally taken their culture and their football and turned them into European-style players? Because that's what Brazil look like, a European-style team. They don't look like the South American juggernauts who knock it around and play differently and play beautiful football. They now look like it's been coached out of them. Maybe. They look like a European team.
• 35:37
  Maybe, and I thought they were fortunate in that game. And again, touch on hydration breaks because Morocco were well on top until that hydration break came in and then Carlo Ancelotti got a chance to bring them over, tactical work, talk to them, and suddenly Brazil are back in the game. Morocco looked good. Yeah, they did. Morocco looked good. Are they playing Scotland? Scotland?
• 35:59
  they are yeah serious nation they all wear runners all over the pitch hard grafters some good players in there as well quality football some Morocco there could be a dark horse Morocco I know they I'm not sure how they'll come up against real quality though I think they'll be punished
• 36:17
  Look, when we expect the back end of the competition arrives, you'd expect the same old teams to be there. Usually the ones that have competed year on year and won it before. But you generally find a surprise. And, you know, I think last pod I was talking...
• 36:37
  It might be USA or Canada or, you know, I didn't fancy Mexico and then, or maybe Senegal. Morocco. It changed you there. You were like Canada all the way through last time. I know you picked them out for, and then Canada drew. I'm going to go. It's going to be one of the African nations. I think they're so well set up, so well drilled. Norway looked all right. I was going to say, yeah, can you put Norway, can they classify as a dark horse or are they actually quite good? Once you've got Harlem meet.
• 37:01
  You can classify them as a dark horse, definitely. Really? Yeah. No, in terms of... In terms of... Can you classify them as a dark horse? Because they're actually well-known. But they've never really got to the latter stages of a competition. Yeah, true. They've been unlucky as well. No, I read the stats. They got knocked out in 1990.
• 37:24
  I think three out of the four teams went through and they got knocked out in bottom place and all four teams were on four points. So it was like Mexico first, Republic of Ireland second, Italy third, Norway fourth. All four teams in the group had four points. They'd all obviously won one, drew one, lost one. And they went out on not enough goals scored.
• 37:44
  and yeah, it just made me sort of have a different perspective on other nations have a little bit of trouble as well and on top of it that, you know, three, because I just thought as soon as a team wins a game in this competition you're basically through when three teams go through but actually there is potential for it not to happen. Do we all know what's happening and so if England we're going to win two games I think we're going to win two games in draw one. I know that sounds stupid but I think yeah, I think he'll go really weak in the third game and I think he
• 38:11
  I still think we win. I think we should win, but I think we'll draw one of the games. But if we do, if we win all three games, do we know exactly who we've got in the next? Do we know which way it's going? We play. No. We play on... I think it's the first... If we win the group, we group L. We are group L, aren't we? I'm going to play.
• 38:30
  If we're Group L, we play on Wednesday, the 1st of July at 5pm. Group L winner against third placed team from about four different groups. It could be Group L. Can't even say that. Do you know what I mean? It's impossible to know who we play at this stage because of the variation that could come in.
• 38:52
  But that's when we would play because I was hoping to play golf that day and I'm going to have to move my tee time. Fair. That's why I was looking and trying to work it out. It's a competition. It's an Ormskirt golf club where I remember. Very good golf club. Actually, yeah. Reasonable green freeze for anyone who's listening.
• 39:12
  just another post for this golf club yes that's very nice but I'm a member at Nessane so we're just Nessane what's Nessane S&A South Portneau Nessane Nessane yeah it's a lovely beautiful course links so we're all right you've said enough now okay
• 39:29
  Going back to England, no. We only got up to the second half. It was, you know, we've talked about, we'll come back to France as well, linked to this. We look strong with the changes we could make. Really strong. You know, we got to a certain point and I was concerned Declan Rice going off or Rhys James going into the middle. I'm not sure. He's a central midfielder. But for all the talk...
• 39:52
  Jed Spence did really well when he came on. He did. In an attacking sense, his pace is a joke. That's it, we injected so much pace into that team, it helped. The two wide men, we can change our two wide men for the two that came on. Wow. I want to ask you a question. From your perspective, do we need two defensive midfielders?
• 40:10
  purely just your opinion. I know we can't question something, but I just want to know from a footballer's perspective, what do you think about that? I think I like to have two players in there. I don't know if... It depends what you class... Do you class Elliot Anderson as a defensive midfielder? I don't. No, I don't, but he's sat...
• 40:30
  Yeah, so if you were to play... If anyone, why Scott were forward more than him? If you were to play Rhys James as one of them and someone else's, you know, two players who are... And John Stones. That was another one as well. Rhys James getting moved into the middle. I was like, whoa, what's going on here? I was concerned about that for two reasons. One, because don't give him too much more running to do. He'll get injured. You know, we can try to limit his running rather than making him do more. And two, because I'm not sure defensively, his instincts as a central midfielder are...
• 40:59
  as good as other people that we've got in who play that position on a more regular basis. But I just think that, you know, I think we, we had different options in there. And I just think if you would have played Rhys James and John Stones, now that's two defensive, defensive man. I mean, it feels no, because their only instinct would be just to be retreating deeper and deeper. So Declan Rice and Elliot and Anderson, I don't class either of them as a,
• 41:26
  defensive midfielder. I class them as old school, go back to the 90s when we were growing up, all-round midfielders. They've got mindset to defend, but they've also got mindset to go forward. So I like to have both of them in there because you've not got one that is... Who am I thinking of? Go back to McElhaney, Casemiro to a lesser extent because he actually does get forward a bit, but they...
• 41:50
  defensive like a proper six yeah proper one that's what that's what those two of ours aren't so I like that that's what the Anderson done he just said Bellingham being in there didn't work though
• 41:59
  Yeah, I loved that. When he said, I'd go after City. He got beat easily a few times through the mud. I just think tiredness was out of stage then because he'd done so much running, closing down, chasing, looking to get in behind them all the time. It just, I think it's so difficult when Harry Kane comes so deep. If I'm thinking, if I was Ewan as a player, would you go to him, if Harry Kane comes into your space and you kind of say, what are you doing here?
• 42:22
  Well, it's... Yeah. So, yeah, it would frustrate me because he's coming into my space and damn, that means that I need to run into a different space, which now means I've run around a lot and now I've got to make a run past Harry Kane because that's the balance. But...
• 42:37
  At the same time... Made that block. Fair play to him. Yeah. At the very end, yeah. Wow. Brilliant block. Looked like he took a bit of... In his belly. Yeah, well, let's call it his belly. It looked like it took a bit of pain for it. Stayed down a little bit after it. Very nice one, that. Well worth it, though. But, again, touching on Argentina and Messi, we now know that we're building our team, and we've said it before, around Harry Kane. So if I know that, and Harry Kane's got the potential of winning me the World Cup...
• 43:02
  I'll run all over the place. I don't care what he's having to be. I get that, but that's why I always ask the footballer, and I say, like, he comes into your space and he's in your midfield. Like, what do you then do? Do you drop further back? Do you look to push on and go a little bit close to his position? What do you do when he's in them positions? That has to be something that you've worked on. So I think Thomas Tuchel mentioned 17 months, oh no, 17 days, he said, beg your pardon. But he's been in charge of the team for, you know,
• 43:31
  nearly two years now coming up because of after the Euros. And they'll have been working on that for a while. I think you can see it. Our wide men run up. So because you've now worked on it, if Harry Kane's coming into my space, the manager's told me where he wants me to be. Now, generally...
• 43:46
  Those two players being Rice and Anderson. So Bellingham knows if Kane comes deep, I'm running forward. The wide men know if Kane comes deep, I'm running forward. Anderson, Elliot, probably. Kane's coming that deep, probably go wider. So if it's me, depending on which one of those positions I'm playing,
• 44:03
  I'll have known where we need to run and where we need to go and what's the best because you want to get Kane you want to get Kane on the ball I think it works second half it worked first half as well I think it works but I think I think it works so well and purely because of one man and I think that one man is Declan Rice I think Declan Rice is the most versatile player on the pitch
• 44:22
  I think he moves about all over the pitch and there's nothing he can't do he can attack, he can shoot, he can score he can make that killer pass right through the middle he can find people and his legs as well so I just think if it's not Declan Rice on that pitch I don't think that works him coming in so deep but with Declan Rice on the pitch I think it does I think Declan Rice is so important to his team Well he can get forward he can do everything we thought going back probably about four years that he was a
• 44:48
  Sitter, he was a number six, as we call it. It doesn't really go anywhere, but that limits his game so much and he's got such ability. And yes, he can get forward at times, but one of the things I noticed last night on both sides of the pitch, probably left side, strangely, less so,
• 45:04
  When the full-backs go up, any time a Croatian made a run into them spaces, the Declan Rice matched it. Yeah. And got in there and covers the ground. He's so good at that. Goes under the radar. Covers the ground, gets in. That then allows you... Just give Juss' midfielder so much confidence. I don't know, I can go running here. If I want to go running, I know he's got me. I struggled running. I struggled running, Tony. Why do you keep bringing that up? You also do such a good footballer. When you get on the ball, you play a ball and you can go right. So you give it to Pienaar, you give it to Steven on the left, or you give it to Kevin on the right, and you give it, bang
• 45:34
  You'd look to move on up the pitch. Like, you'd play with Gasparri, and you must have had that feeling with him. I know I can go running here, because I know he's so intelligent, his IQ is so high. He sees everything, and he knows. I'll just sit, I'll let you go. And that's one of the things that actually England kicked on again, second half, that they were told to go and play more free, go and play with energy and action, and go and play with intensity, which they came out second half.
• 45:59
  And I mean, I think the goal we scored actually ended up with 25 plus, 30 plus passes before we eventually scored. But ultimately within there, you have to actually play a forward pass, which Elliot Anderson did, thankfully. Because a forward pass has to come, you can't just overplay. But we've got runners, we've got people. And I would know, yeah.
• 46:18
  that if I've got people like Anderson and Rice, especially behind me, that you can, you can kind of do that. Fullbacks can do it because they'll come over and cover. And I think that's what works for us. The manager said, don't be concerned about what's behind you. Be concerned. If you see a guy in front, go to him and the people behind you will, will back you up and cover. And I thought, oh,
• 46:39
  Can I ask you, why... You can do that when you've got the energy that Declan Rice has got. I want to ask you, why do you think he starts Konza? Because, in my opinion, wouldn't it be so much better and so much easier if Geahy and Stones and Nico O'Reilly, all club members, all play for the same club, would it be much better fit if they were there? Like, why does he start Konza? And I'm just asking... His pace. His pace and his height, yeah. And that's taken away nothing from him being a good defender, which he is. But... I don't think he's as good on the ball as he's...
• 47:09
  Maybe you sacrifice a little bit of that on the ball. Is that why he starts to owns it? Potentially, yeah, but that's the question. You know, Gay has played on the left of the defence for City for the majority of his time. So you kind of felt, and I felt he was unlucky because he's basically played in all the qualifiers as well. I think that's why Tuchel put him on near the end. But he's played in most of the qualifiers. He plays on that left side naturally. He's used to playing out down the left for us.
• 47:38
  I thought that would be the case, but Stones brings an experience. He brings an assurance. He brings an understanding and a knowledge of these situations. But I think cons are plays because...
• 47:48
  We used to have Kyle Walker's piece at the back that just gave us a bit of assurance to get out of jail, Cardiff, if you make a mistake. Rhys James is every bit as quick as him. I think that's not as quick, whereas Konza is. Konza's quick, you'd expect. Konza's that quick? Konza's quicker than Rhys James. He's not as quick as Jed Spence. He's light on. I saw that. I was explaining to my kids last night, because they were like, Dad, how come John Stone's plays? And I said, let me tell these kids. I said...
• 48:13
  I genuinely think he's possibly the best footballing defender. Well, I said he's the best footballer I've ever seen play live. I think he's possibly the best. The only person I can think of a better footballing centre-half than him is Rio Ferdinand. And I'm not saying he's better, by the way. I'm just saying he's on that level. I've never seen a footballer, a centre-back player with as good a footballer IQ. If Rio was listening to this, I'm sure he, as players do, would say he's better than John. But...
• 48:40
  I think John might tip it. Really? Football and centre-halves. Just football. I'm not saying as defender. Stepping into midfield. John Stone's managed to go in and play centre-midfield in the Champions League final, I think it was. Go play centre-midfield. I still think Real is a little bit ahead. I'm not sure. Getting on the ball and passing and playing and going and stepping forward and stepping into these roles.
• 49:02
  I think Rio was the best English defender ever. John Topps are. As a pure football and centre-half, I think John Stones is the best I've ever seen. It's very rare, I think. The game was a bit different. But that was really good, yeah. I like that. The game was a bit different then, though, wasn't it? Because defensively, it had to be more rigid. Where now you do have defenders moving into midfield positions and whatnot. I'm not saying Rio couldn't have done it. Yeah, he could have done it, but we didn't see it. I think Rio playing in today's game would benefit Rio.
• 49:27
  Yeah, exactly. Massively. I think Rio Ferdinand in today's game would be the greatest centre-off that's ever played, full stop. But then I also believe, you know, he was allowed to kick players, Rio Ferdinand. He would go away with so much more. It's like, how good would Cannavaro be? How good would Nesta be? How good would Maldini and Beresi be? They're just allowed to get away with different things. But then I also believe,
• 49:48
  them players came up against far better players. And I don't care what they do. People will say Messi and Ronaldo. I've never seen a freak like, you know, R9. I still haven't seen one to this day who can do what he can do at the drop of a hat. Or playing against forwards week in, week out. Your Crespos, your batter shooters, your Nzaghi's, players like that. This is where I'm at with football. I just don't see them big...
• 50:12
  forwards I just don't see them stars no more centre forwards you know I was thinking Van Basten as you were saying that centre forwards are few and far between these days because around the world and academies and places everybody wants to be a number 10 or a wide man coming in no one wants to be that big guy playing up front what is that
• 50:33
  I don't know exactly. I think it's potentially coaching. And also when you see the best players on the telly or when you're managing to go to the game, you always want to be them. So if they play, which has become the thing at the minute, in wide positions, then that's where you want to play as a kid. Years ago, you used to just go out there on the street and you either wanted to play centre half or centre forward. Do you not think kids are going on them car parks? We used to play on the Aldi car parks, smashing into the shutters. I'm telling you now, every kid wants to be Ireland.
• 51:02
  Wants to be... Ireland. Oh, I thought you said Ireland then. Ireland. No, you're right. Yeah, well, there you go. So he's bringing it back. So maybe in five years' time, all the kids will actually want to play centre forwards. But we've gone through a period without really having... dominating centre forwards. So kids be what they see. Like, look at... I was talking about this today. You go through a...
• 51:31
  frustrating period. Messi's the best that we see all the time. So we go the matchup. We watch every TV because we want to see Messi. But Messi's a one-off. Messi's so unique. He's a unicorn. I'll give you that. So he does things that everyone wants to be. But kids are watching Messi and going, I want to be Messi. So when they then go play for their teams or when they play...
• 51:53
  They go and play for their teams. They always want to highlight so they'll do chops and stuff because Messi, but then they'll also stand and walk around the pitch and not close down and not turn it because Messi does. But you look at these teenagers that are getting on the borderline of whether they're going to make it or not. You know, every club across the world.
• 52:15
  And the amount of them that come into the team and will give you the best of something, but actually their mindset is to, I'll pull my socks up now and I'll just walk around because this is what the arrogant best players do. But because they're seeing the likes of Messi and Ronaldo do it and not realising that they're freaks. They're not something that you can emulate. You need to not see that part of the game. You need to look at other players that charge around and run and work hard off the ball for you to make it. But quite often these players...
• 52:41
  are on the cusp of the first team because they look at Messi and think, well, the best players show a real arrogance and walk around. If they look at them players earlier on, deal of seeing. If you watch Messi in his Barca days, he's the hardest one charging first in the press. He's the first one running after them defenders to get the ball back. And even Cristiano Ronaldo, I know he's not the best at it, but he's still press-meat and he still closed people down when he was playing for Real Madrid.
• 53:02
  I just think it's at the point in their careers where they're at now, where they just stroll around. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But the kids that are watching don't see that. They don't realise this is their sixth World Cup. Yeah, they don't realise this is their sixth World Cup each and they broke records. Messi obviously became the oldest goal scorer, I think it was, in the World Cup. He's just equalised Maroslav Klose's record of World Cup goals, 16 or 17, 16 is it? How proud of his ability is it?
• 53:30
  Yeah, he's become the old... Ronaldo's now become the oldest player at the World Cup yesterday by beating that... They have literally made each other be the best that they can possibly be, those two. Do you think Cristiano Ronaldo's holding Portugal back? Oof. Um...
• 53:49
  Potentially, but I look at who's their other striker, Gonzalo Ramos, who doesn't actually get to play every single week for PSG. I mean, I know he's up against it with the forward line that they've got. If you were the manager of Portugal, are you bringing Ronaldo on to make an impact on 60 Minutes or are you starting...
• 54:10
  Take into consideration where he's playing. I think I'm bringing him on to make an impact. And the reason is because Portugal are different from Argentina. Argentina have literally, as I said before, built their team around. Messi just walking around, getting into good positions and bursting into life. Portugal's team isn't about working hard to get Ronaldo the ball. Portugal's team is about playing as a structure and as a team and this.
• 54:38
  So they don't centre it around Ronaldo getting the best out of him. So Ronaldo to play for Portugal still has to find a way of being part of the team. And I don't know if his mindset is that at the moment. So he's holding them back.
• 54:52
  Well, look, they've played one game in the World Cup so far. And it was a frustrating game. You'd always look for reasons why that was to be. I talked about Thierry Henry before in that sense of criticising him. So there will be criticism. But he might play in the next game and score two or three. He can definitely do that. Of course, he's keeping them back. In which case we're now saying, actually, he's not holding them back. It was a frustrating game for them. But ultimately, he is, Oz. He's holding them back. They're not...
• 55:20
  They're not building their team around him. So if that's the case, he's a more impact player in my mind. That's not on Ronaldo. That's on the manager. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree with that, yeah. That's not on Ronaldo. He's doing the best he can possibly do for his country and he's doing what he's always done. It's about him. It's not new to any of us. It's about him. I mean, you could see yesterday, the ball that gets pulled back to him, that's behind him when he gets the shot off. That wasn't meant for him. That was meant for Bruno Fernandes. Yeah. And he's looking at the players and saying, what are you doing? What kind of ball was that? Yeah.
• 55:49
  Bruno looked furious. Yeah, he did. But the kid who's, I think it was, what's the kid's name on the right hand side who came on, the little fella. Can't say so. Can't say so. He didn't have it in him to go that way and for you. It's like the Petraiser hands of the blue fella back. Whereas everyone should be, when you get on a football pitch, in my opinion,
• 56:07
  Everyone should be playing off a level playing field. It's like, whatever you say to the left wing, you should be able to say to the right back. Whatever says to the centre of my field should be able to be said to the keeper. You should all in it together, tell them. And it's like he was screaming. Yeah, you want it to be the case, but it's not always the case. There's a certain level of respect and there's certain levels of understanding and knowledge and understanding what they've done in their career and for the club as well. So it was frustrating. So Portugal didn't start well. Spain...
• 56:35
  That was a very unexpected start for them. Very unexpected. Nil-nil. I think they had 50 touches in Cape Verde's box and couldn't get a shot away. Keeper played well. That Keeper's done fantastic. Did you see he's gone from like 10,000 followers? 11,000 followers. 40,000 followers to 11 million. There you go.
• 56:56
  Goes on you lad. Done well, isn't he? Make sure you make that work for your son. It's the same as that lad paying for New Zealand. Did you hear about that story before? So an Argentinian influencer. A what? An Argentinian influencer. Argentinian. Argentinian.
• 57:14
  Argentinian trying to get that like I like it when you come at me first up yeah yeah I come at you a lot I'm glad when you you did come to the Argentina game as well you should be getting that right I'm surprised you can't speak fluent Portuguese an influencer in Argentina laughter
• 57:30
  decided to find the most obscure player across all of the World Cup and try and see if they could get their social media platforms through the roof and followers and picked, I think it was Tim Payne from New Zealand, the right back. And he had like...
• 57:46
  10,000 followers or 5,000, no, probably not even that many, 5,000 followers. And he's now got like 7 million followers before the competition, more than, like twice or three times the amount of the whole of New Zealand. Why are we talking about social media? It's true, yeah. It doesn't matter, does it? Who gives an absolute, I'm trying to refrain me language, who gives a cod's wallop? I like that one, yeah, well refrained.
• 58:09
  I just, I'm sick of it. Just forget about the social media aspect. That fella for Cape Verde had done great. Keeper. He looks about 50. I think he's 40. He's still there. You might think he's older than you. He's not quite. He went into that game looking 50 and he made, he was unbelievable. He came out looking like a prime Buffon. Yeah. But were any of them saves ones that you thought, wow, no one else could save that? Yeah.
• 58:35
  I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I know, yeah. The reason I said that was a more look at Spain. Just shoot him down. Why are you doing this? If he was in a wheelchair, you'd just slap the sides and say, go on, get yourself home.
• 58:51
  It's a bit of ashy. Poor fella's just, at the moment, he's just come in pissed all over them. Yeah, shanked him. It's got to be better. I've got to do better than this. It's got to be better. It's got to be better. I've seen you in goal. I've seen you in goal. All right, that's not too far. I wasn't trying to criticise him, no. I'm trying to... I'm trying to... I'm talking about Spain. You'd expect Spain to have...
• 59:15
  basically tested him more or made him have to play, you know, do 15 tip-over, fingertip saves. They're disappointed with Spain, haven't they? Yeah, one game. And here's the thing as well. Because of the nature of this World Cup, usually if you didn't win your first game or...
• 59:32
  or you had a poor result in the first game, you're thinking, oh, there's a bit of tension whether they go through, but you'd still expect that. You'd still expect all these teams. There's no panic about it. You have to remember at the last World Cup, the winners lost the first game. The Archies lost to Iraq, was it? Did they lost to? Or Iran? Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia, they lost 2-0, didn't they, in that game? And they went on to win it. I think Italy lost when they won the World Cup. Spain lost in 2010. I think they lost their first game. The French lost to Senegal when they won it.
• 1:00:01
  No, that was 2002. Was it? When the French lost to Senegal. Brazil won that time, yeah. It's shown that you can lose the first game. Talking about the French, that was... Mbappe. Yeah, but that was a game of two hours. I thought Senegal should have been ahead at half-time. Ismell Assar missed a couple of chances. They were unlucky with one or two. They played well. First down Senegal. France were way off it.
• 1:00:25
  But when you've got that kind of quality in your team, firepower. Wow, bang. Alissé as well, by the way. Alissé playing it forward and Bappe, you know, that first finish probably didn't get the respect it deserved. The run and the choppy finish to hit that right on the money with regards to timing. The ball by Alissé is the big one. What? The ball by Alissé fans. And then that silly commentator talking about them and Zlatan and Zlatan and Zlatan. He just absolutely turned them.
• 1:00:49
  That was brilliant. I haven't seen that. What happened? So Landon Donovan says, at halftime, I think it was, was it halftime? Maybe after the game. He must have been in the commentators because he's not in the show. Landon was in the stadium, yeah, and he said, he said something along the line, the French were arrogant. The French are acting really arrogant here, that arrogance...
• 1:01:09
  And then Alexi Lalas, who's been up to quite a few bits. Half of you knows names. I never was just called a punker. Alexi Lalas. He played, he was like the superstar of the US team in 1994. Was he? In 1994, yeah. He was like the main guy. He was the main guy. So he came out and said, yeah, they're playing with arrogance. They're out of order playing with arrogance. And Thierry Henry went, I'm not seeing that. I don't think it's quite work, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Zlatan went, yeah.
• 1:01:38
  Intelligent, you know, sorry, ignorant people would say that that's playing with arrogance. Intelligent people would realise that's just confidence. And absolutely just cut right across the material. Spee's face went. Spee just looks like that.
• 1:01:54
  And his eyes just opened up. He's brilliant. Yeah, them two have gone at each other. But it was a brilliant sort of comment. Is it fair as well? Yeah, definitely. I don't like them calling players arrogant when you're on a football pitch. There's no arrogance when you're on a pitch. There is, but there's a certain kind of arrogance. I mean, if circumstances have been different, but I think it was half time or there'd been a poor first half performance.
• 1:02:19
  I can't say that. I can't use 45 minutes to say it's arrogance. It's just poor first-door performance. It's just football. It's just like football. And there's also... Give the other team credit to us. Yeah, but we also talk about good arrogance, having a good arrogance on the pitch. There's nothing wrong with a certain type of arrogance. I just don't see how the word arrogance comes into a football. It's a football match. There's 11 players. How is one player or one team being arrogant? I don't understand where that narrative comes from. Why would you...
• 1:02:46
  I just don't get, how is he being arrogant? How are the French being arrogant? That's what I don't understand. I think it's along the terms of they thought they were better than they are kind of thing. That's where arrogance comes from. You believe in that. But as Zlatan says, that believing in yourself can be seen as confidence because I am this good. And the French showed, well, we are this good. We weren't at that level in the first half.
• 1:03:11
  But we can get to that level. So that's when they say having a good arrogance, which means a young kid can go on the pitch and swan around there, but because he's got real belief in what he can do. Belief. Yeah, well, that's why they're the best.
• 1:03:24
  Well, I will say there's a fine line between the two. There is... You have to sort of... You have to back up what you're doing. You have to match what... Your temperaments of what you're showing. I just don't see that as arrogance. I just see that as pure, absolute quality. You believe in yourself. You back yourself. And you know what? I'll show you. And I just don't see that level of arrogance. I mean, taking off Dembele, Ballon d'Orwin, and only put Barcola on who scores...
• 1:03:49
  not long enough they've got they've got firepower I'm saying before we've got firepower bringing on Rashford and Saka what they call finishes we've got a little bit in other areas but they're the most dangerous nation in the world they're the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to a front four front three whatever you want to call it
• 1:04:09
  they're the most dangerous nation because they can just turn it on. They ask an awful lot of, if you saw in that France game. So I still think the French look favourites to win it. That was going to be my question as your opinion changed on that. But if you look at the way Senegal kept the ball and the chances they created and how they created them, you can get at France. I'm sure everybody's saying, well, look, you can get at England because we showed we can and you can get at Spain, you can get at all these teams. But...
• 1:04:37
  That front four, because it's not even a front three, it's a front four for the French. They expose the two central midfielders in the back four. They ask an awful lot of their midfielders in back four. The front four don't work as hard as you'd expect or as you probably need to over the tournament in terms of it's like the opposite of Argentina who...
• 1:04:57
  realised that they're probably not the best. They're two centre-halves. I actually like Nessandro Martinez, but Cristiano Romero is a little bit suspect in some of his decision-makers, so they kind of protect their whole team and just leave Messi up, whereas the French go, well, we're going the other way and we'll trust them defensively. The centre-halves actually played well for France, but they are exposed at times, and Senegal should have took most of it. So you can get at them, but I still think they're favourites.
• 1:05:27
  echo what you're saying I just think echo I don't I think 100% whoever beats France wins the World Cup you're going to have to go through France to win it I just think and the biggest part I think you're going to have to go through a number of teams
• 1:05:47
  the final one will be France if you beat France you win the World Cup and it might not necessarily be in the final but they're going to be the hardest team to beat I just feel what you're saying is and the biggest part here for me is can our defensive midfield dominate because if you're going to play France you've got to dominate the middle of the park because you're not going to beat them you're going to have to hit them on the break and your middle two Rice and Anderson is going to have to be on it
• 1:06:17
  So, yeah, I agree with that. But I also think back to kind of PSG Bayern Munich, and I'm going to get there in a second, because if we play France, we're naturally, I know I've seen it, sort of what we did against Croatia, we'll naturally drop away and we will work out as a team. We will get behind the ball. And I hope we don't get behind the ball too much. I hope we actually, because if we do, then their front four will have a field day because we're never getting back at them.
• 1:06:45
  So coming back to that Bayern PSG game, I actually hope, and we do that, we do get back. But also, we go on and tell you what, let's leave two at front. I know it's not English, but let's actually go toe-to-toe with you. Let's see what you've got. Let's see if we can... Let's make a game. I'd hate to go out, and to be fair, the noises Thomas Tuchel's making is, if we're going out, we're going out in our way. Yeah, I'm scared, yeah. So that actually...
• 1:07:08
  gives me confidence going into them bigger games that we may go out, but we'll go out in an exciting way, not trying to hang on and being frustrated and think we're outplayed. And as English coming away from the tournament, being disappointed in the manner of the defeat. I think we all enjoyed the Croatia game because it was exciting. I had some people say it was the best 45 minutes of football they've ever seen. It was refreshing.
• 1:07:32
  It was refreshing. It was great. So actually, I think that we might actually go toe-to-toe with these teams in the latter stages. Hopefully, touch wood, we'll get there. I don't think he will. I think we might actually give it a go and go out our way. And if we went out, haven't gone, you know, played a game of basketball with opposition, I'm sure they'll criticise us defensively. But as a nation, we'd much more enjoy that. I don't think he will. I just don't think he can. I think you're going to need two fellas in the midfield who are going to run and play.
• 1:07:58
  Oh, they'll have to. No, they'll have to do what they're doing, but... He can't go towards the toe with them. I don't think anyone's... Everyone's not behind the ball. Ozzy, if someone goes towards the toe with them, someone's getting a good hiding.
• 1:08:09
  I think defensively they looked better than us, if I'm being totally honest. They did. They're two setter arse. That's what worries me. The biggest point of my worry is that you're playing defenders who don't always play together. And even though you said concert, I thought you'd done okay yesterday. I thought you'd done well. I don't know. Defensively, it really worries me where we're at. Because we shouldn't have conceded the way we did.
• 1:08:34
  Yeah, but then, okay, so do you spend, so you get to playing against one of these big teams, do you spend the whole game worried defensively? So protecting your defenders, so actually finding yourself in the position where you're actually all behind the ball because you're too scared to lose, or do you actually go, well, we know we struggle defensively. This is what Vincent Kompany kind of said. I know they are one of the best teams. They're going to score. So actually, we're going to go score as well. So do you choose to go out of that way and say, well, I'll tell you what.
• 1:09:01
  Get after them. I'd love them to have your mentality and what you're saying, but I just think they're going to be thinking, lads, if we can keep these shut up and shut out and we can dominate the ball, we're going to get them. We will get a chance, but if we start going so-to-toe with these, you're looking at this, it could be stupid. Well, I don't know. Hopefully we get the chance to take these on and take a number of teams on in the latter stages. And by that time, they've all picked up so many yellow cards that they're missing a load of players.
• 1:09:28
  yeah what will finish on this predictions for England versus Ghana um well Ghana have just beat Panama 1-0 mm-hmm I think I was expecting them to win more win that game more the only game the whole World Cup I've predicted the right score is it yeah have you been on it how have we been doing on the afternoon I've missed a few games I can't lie I haven't tied on all my scores quite early did you I've known every score but I've known you need to join the league because I tried to see you on the league I haven't noticed you're not in our league
• 1:09:59
  Well, no, because I made a league and you haven't accepted the invite yet. Okay, well, I'll jump into that. What league are you in? Who's league are you in? I thought you were in it. No. We're not. We'll make a new one and do it for the next round. You didn't mean Stubbs, you didn't mean it. I missed that. I didn't notice it. Jesus. See what I mean? You're just not up to date at all. You need a PA. Jenny.
• 1:10:19
  Come on. I'm not far off. I do need the PA. Jenny, look after him. We talked on the pod last week about getting one going. We're in it. You haven't joined yet? Yeah. Okay, well, I haven't seen that. So you're last. Okay. What was your question, anyway? Predictions. Oh, yeah, sorry. So I thought...
• 1:10:38
  before the tournament that we'd beat Garner by 2-0, say, and it'll be nice. But, I think they, maybe they had a slow start. I haven't seen that game because of how late it was. Maybe they've had a slow start. Maybe they've, I'll try and watch it back. But only beating Panama 1-0, I'm thinking, I'm thinking we might, we might win that game by Morneau. So, 4-0. I just think every team
• 1:11:03
  And we get carried away now. England have won a game. I know, yeah. Big boys, so that's it. Every game, 4-5-0 now. I'm not going to lie. I think that's going to be...
• 1:11:11
  A really tight game because anyone coming up against England is going to realise our quality, see our strengths, and they're going to go, right, you know what, guys, we're going to attack these on set pieces. That's going to be our chance to get at them, and I think we'll sit deep, and that's going to be really hard for us to break them down. Yeah, I was going to say, what I will say is Croatia didn't really sit deep against us, allowed us to get at them. The other two teams in the group will be what we call a,
• 1:11:35
  we used to just call it defending deep. Now everyone calls it low block. So they're going to do that. So how are we going to break them down? Yeah, so it might be a slow bit. It won't be as exciting as the Croatia game. No chance because of the manner of attack via defence. But I still think we win comfortably. I think your difference there is going to be looking at players like a Sackett and a Rashford.
• 1:11:53
  While Anthony Gordon done brilliant yesterday, his chasing back, his tenacity, his work rate was really good in different aspects of his game. He does things that Rashford doesn't do. It's quite clear to see. He will chase back with his life depends on it. He will be running up and down that wing line.
• 1:12:09
  Whereas Rashford's got a moment of brilliance. So has Anthony Gordon, but it's just a different kind of brilliance, I think, with Rashford. I mean, there's no way Anthony Gordon would have been in that same position on the pitch that Rashford had been yesterday when Saka makes that pass. I don't think he'd have been there. I think he'd have been further back looking to defend and being not caught out. And I think that's the reason why Matheraway K starts.
• 1:12:27
  He gives you the position and a positional sense. I'd like his pace is one of the reasons why he starts. He tracks, mate, and he doesn't leave. As much as I'm not the biggest fan of Maddie WK, he doesn't get caught out of position much. He tracks back so much, and he does them hard miles going back and forth, and I think that's why them two are picked.
• 1:12:46
  But I think if you're going up against a Garner and they sit in this further back and they just look to hit you on the break, you're going to need moments of brilliance and a sack and a rash would give you that. I agree. I'd mix it up out wide in the next game. I would consistently through the groups. I would change it quite a bit. How do you think he'd done your Steele Gordon? I think he'd done okay. I think, look, some games...
• 1:13:08
  the way the opposition is set up and the way things are going is that you have to just do your job and the weaknesses or the strength is on the other side of the pitch. Sometimes that happens. And I felt in the first half, I felt, we talked about O'Reilly was, was drifting into the middle. And I thought, but the second half, he basically just did his job as a left back and we won the game pretty much on the other side of the pitch. And I just think that happens sometimes that, so Gordon didn't do badly, but he,
• 1:13:37
  but we were exposing them on the other side of the pitch. Is that down to the manager straight to us? You've identified that because he does that for City. Yeah, but look, look, that's... Oh, you're talking about O'Reilly, yes. And I think he then said it all the time, just play from your position a lot more, which he did. He played from left back.
• 1:13:54
  but sometimes in a game you go in with the best intentions to try and expose them. And a manager's probably going into the game thinking there's three or four ways we can get at them. One of them might be the more successful. That doesn't mean the other side of the pitch play badly. That just means, yes, we won it down that side.
• 1:14:11
  The pitch today, so yeah, good excitement for England. Lots of changes that we can potentially make to stay fresh and positive moving forward. I just want to talk about something else before we finish, and that is the refs. I've really enjoyed the referee's performances. The referee in our game was the best one I've seen. They have not allowed diving. They've not allowed throwing your back up. They've tried to play on as much as possible.
• 1:14:39
  in general, and just telling people to get up. They've not allowed time wasting. They've allowed physical contact without everything being a foul. There's been some bad misses, though. There was a penalty. What game am I thinking about? France. Now, that's what we're talking about. No, it's not. That is a pen. No. Well, look, they are trying to... That's what I wanted to talk to you about. They are trying to... I understand what you're saying, right? So, if we're going to go this down, the Premier League, across Europe, there is a touch...
• 1:15:08
  And he goes down. But they have been consistent about trying to allow a little bit of contact. And that is consistent with not only the other games, but every other decision. If you watch that game, and if you look at that incident on its own, you go, it looks like a penalty by the terms we're playing at. But if you watch even the rest of that game, he allowed those kind of challenges all day. And he was consistent with it. He basically said, get back on your feet. Plus...
• 1:15:35
  If we're fans of the Premier League and European football in general, and we're saying, I just wish everyone wouldn't dive so much, and I wish everyone would stay on their feet, and I wish everyone wouldn't that. But then everyone's coming out and saying, oh, it's a definite pen. How are they getting it so wrong? And it's a disgrace. How can you ever sort of...
• 1:15:52
  train the world of football back to trying to stay in its feet if you don't actually stop giving a few of these. And not just stop giving it. It's not a complete disgrace. It was consistent to not only that game, but also the World Cup. And the World Cup has led...
• 1:16:07
  sort of refereeing decisions for the last three or four tournaments. And if this kind of mentality of staying on your feet and allowing it, and the press actually get used to it because the press drive decisions because of the criticism that, that might follow it. So if the press can get behind this of just get, get back to your feet, let's not allow it. It isn't a penalty because yes, there was a touch,
• 1:16:29
  And yes, there was a lunge by Mane and he did touch him. But Mbappe put his left foot down afterwards and could have carried on running, but decided to go down. That's fine because in European football, in the leagues he plays in, he'll get a penalty normally. But if we want to change the mentality of everybody just whinging and crying and going down the time, it starts now and we have to all get behind it. We all have to believe in it. So...
• 1:16:51
  People coming out calling that a disgrace. I just can't get behind. I'm passionate about the referees being brilliant so far in this tournament. I get it, but it's still a penalty. Yeah, I think it's something I do get it. I get it. And I like what you're saying because what you're promoting is consistency amongst decisions and that's all we all want because if everyone makes the same decision as that referee made, that means... I love the fact they got called over to the monitor and still went, no, I've been reffing it like this and...
• 1:17:14
  that by today's standards isn't a penalty. Now, if every ref did that, we'd have a well better game. You know, we've not enjoyed this tournament so far with the referees saying, even to Harry Kane in our game and to, you know, the opposition Croatia players and every game, get back up. Get up. Yeah, no, yeah. Get up. That's fine. It was a touch, but it's not enough.
• 1:17:33
  Now, isn't that better? I do like that. The game gets a bit more physical. And the game getting broken up every two minutes, and the game getting stopped, and the game, you know. I do like that. Isn't that better? And it promotes players being a bit tougher. But we have to mentally all get behind it. It promotes players being a bit tougher, a bit more aggressive, but then you can't talk to me about that on one side, and then say we've got to have the aeroguination breaks on the other side.
• 1:17:53
  I mean you're promoting fellas To each other Get up and get on with the game Let's have a good go And then go Lads we need a drink We were 20 minutes into a game No so you know you can't No I get that Fair enough