Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / Overcoming Adversity
Transcript
- Peter: Welcome to another exciting episode of Pete Fritz Society. My guest today has a master's in art degree at Cornell in education, also a master's in, ⁓ sorry, master's education at Columbia in psychology. He is the author of the book, I Dreamed of Things That Never Were, the Ken Kempelonk story. Sorry Ken, I am just butchering your name today. The one and only Ken is here now. Ken, send it out on everybody. Pete: Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. peter: Show ⁓ Kenneth James Kunken: Thank you, Peter. Thank you for having me as your guest. I'm ready to start with you. Peter: Ha ha ha. So Kenneth, let's get into it, okay? So I know I read a little bit of your background, like we were discussing. You played football for Cornell and then you got injured. So take us to that moment though. What was your thoughts when you found out that you pretty much weren't gonna be able to do much else after that? Pete: It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. Kenneth James Kunken: Okay, well my injury occurred in 1970. At that time I was 20 years old. I was early in my junior year and I was playing on Cordell's lightweight football team. And we were playing in a game against Columbia University. And on a kickoff, I tackled the ball carrier. And when I made the tackle, I broke my neck and severely damaged my spinal cord. And as a result, I'm almost totally paralyzed below the shoulders. Peter: Hmm That's, that's, so what was your thought process in that moment? the moment it happened, did you lose all feeling completely at that point? Kenneth James Kunken: Yeah, below my neck. I have no feeling just a couple inches below my shoulders and down. So it was very strange. One, I didn't know what was happening to me. It felt like an electric shock was shooting through my body. And I didn't even know much of anything about a spinal cord injury back then. When they finally put a stretcher on under me and carried me off the field, when they lifted me up, it felt like they were just carrying my head off the field. Peter: Jesus. Kenneth James Kunken: and left my body behind because all I could feel basically at the time was the neck up. So that was an incredibly strange feeling. ⁓ And it's taken quite a bit of adjusting to now. I've injured more than 55 years was my injury. It was more than 55 years ago. And I'm a quadriplegic, right? With very little movement below my shoulders. Peter: So what was your thought process going through your head at that time when you found the diagnosis? Like you've done things after though, man. You've achieved such great things. You've got masters in two different areas. Even though you're quadriplegic, mean, like what was your mindset? Like you had to have like that, what are you thinking? The athlete mindset, like you're just like, no matter what, they ain't gonna stop me. Hey, listen, I may be numb from the neck down, but listen, you know what? I ain't gonna let this stop me. Like that's pure human will right there. Kenneth James Kunken: Well, as I said, I knew very little about spinal cord injuries. So, and because I had to rely on other people for everything, I kept asking questions of the doctors and the medical professionals about my condition and what my prognosis was. And they seemed very hesitant to give me much information. And after I'd been hurt in a number of months, I was now in the rehabilitation facility in New York City and They had put out a pamphlet describing spinal cord injuries and it was broken down to the level of your injury. I've heard between the fourth and fifth cervical in the neck, which is very high up. And they had a page describing what type of movement you might have. And it said, I may have some biceps and no triceps, things like that, but you know, very limited movement, obviously. And it does, and it was very accurate. You know, I can bend my left arm a little bit, not move my fingers or wrists and basically nothing on the right side of my body. They had a page that described where your level of sensation would be. And again, it indicated just a couple inches below the shoulders and up, and it was very accurate. And there was a page about how it would affect your bodily functions, how it affect your bowels and your bladder and your lung capacity and your breathing. And again, right on point, very accurate. And it had a page about what type of occupations you could pursue. And the only occupation I saw for my level of injury was that someday I may be able to sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And I was devastated. I mean, here I had been a junior studying industrial engineering at one of the most prestigious colleges in the country. I had a physical injury. I broke my neck. There was no brain damage. I had a physical injury and suddenly I'm reading that the best I may ever be able to do is sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And I was devastated. And then Peter, remember lying in bed, looking up at the ceiling and thinking about what that would be like. And it was like, well, wait a minute. I can't even dial a telephone. They were only rotary phones that not even push button phones. I couldn't take notes or write anything. Peter: Yeah. Kenneth James Kunken: And I started to think, I may not even be able to do that. So it was devastating. And I basically made up my mind, they're all wrong. There's more I could do. And if I just ignore my injury and hope that it'll go away, I'll be able to continue my life and still do everything I wanted to do. Peter: I mean, you technically really did do something. You got two masters. You've achieved a lot more than most people have, even in your situation. It's just crazy for most people to think, because that's a lot of doctors will say, well, you can only do certain things. So they only predicting things. They're not really telling you much. They can only guess as much as the weatherman guess what the weather is going to be kind of thing. You know what mean? The same scenario a little bit. They can give you the probabilities and the possibility outcomes. But you're like, hey, I don't think so. I'm going to still do something with this. So then you went on to pursue these areas. But why did you choose those areas, though? Kenneth James Kunken: Well, it was interesting. I was studying industrial engineering at the time of my injury. And this was well before they had laptop computers. And I was having a difficult time with the engineering curriculum before my injury. But after my injury, it just became that much more difficult to try and do things without the use of my arms. But I decided to go back to Cornell University, the school I was studying at when I was injured. And that may not have been the best decision at the time. Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: Because this was about 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act took effect. And Cornell's campus was not wheelchair accessible. It's on a very hilly terrain. Virtually every one of its buildings has a lot of steps in front of it. And there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. So on my first day back at school, Peter, I had to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend my first day. It was crazy. Peter: Jeez. Kenneth James Kunken: ⁓ but I stuck it out and I graduated with a degree in industrial engineering, but I took an elective in psychology while I was there and my psychology professor took an interest in me and suggested that I pursue a career in psychology and become a counselor. He felt that there was still a lot I could do and that I could help others by using my mind and working as a counselor. So based on his suggestions and advice. After I graduated from Cornell, I stayed at Cornell and I earned a Master of Arts degree where I majored in counseling and student personnel administration. And then they increased my counseling credentials. I went to Columbia University, which happened to be the school I was injured playing against, but that was almost a coincidence. That's where I was pursuing my education now. And I earned a second master's degree. This one was in psychological counseling and rehabilitation. So I decided to look for job in the rehabilitation counseling field. Now think about this, Peter. I now had two degrees from Cornell, one from Columbia, three prestigious Ivy league degrees, two master's degrees, and I couldn't get a job. No one would hire me. I looked for a job. Even my advisor at Columbia. Peter: That's wild though, mean, with all those credentials. Kenneth James Kunken: said I would have difficulty getting a job because even people in the rehabilitation field would be hesitant to hire somebody with my disability. So here I said, I'm sending it myself. What more do I need to do to convince somebody just to give me the opportunity to show what I can do after all I've been through, all I've done with my life. And it took a year before I found one organization willing to give me that chance. And that was Abilities Incorporated, which was part of what was then called the Human Resources Center, is now called the Viscardi Center. It's named after its founder, Dr. Henry Viscardi Jr. And they hired me to work as vocational rehabilitation counselor for other individuals with disabilities. And Peter, that changed my life. To finally have the opportunity to work, to earn some money, and to help others. I mean, for years I was in the recipient of so much help. Now for the first time in many, many years, I was working as a counselor where I was helping others. And that made a tremendous difference. It improved my self-esteem, my self-confidence, my feelings of self-worth, and just totally changed my outlook on life. Peter: It had to though, because now you have a job and you can relate to a lot of these guys. They're coming in talking to you and seeing that you're doing so many things, even though you're so limited to what you can do, but you're not letting that stop you though. That had to be inspirational to a of these guys, because they're like, oh, well, Kenneth can do it, why can't I do it? You know I mean? You start a movement, basically, essentially, with these guys. It's awesome though. Kenneth James Kunken: Absolutely. But I, you know, and as it turned out, I was more physically limited than any of the people I was counseling. So as you indicated, you know, I hope to show them that there's still a lot they could do with their lives, you know, despite whatever disability they had. And, know, it was particularly meaningful for me because when I was in the rehabilitation facility, a number of my roommates who had spinal cord injuries and had been hurt a lot longer than I had been. ⁓ had more movement than I had and they didn't seem to be doing much of anything with their lives. And that was incredibly depressing to think that was the future that I may have to look forward to. I was determined that there was still a lot I could do ⁓ and I made up my mind I was going to do everything I could ⁓ to achieve my goals and not let my disability prevent me or stop me from doing things that I had set my mind to. So I enjoyed my work tremendously ⁓ as a rehabilitation counselor. And they kept expanding my role and my duties. And one of my roles was to speak before groups and organizations concerning affirmative action and non-discrimination for people with disabilities. And often after my talks, I would be asked questions. And while I would do my best to respond appropriately, I was always careful to caution the questioners. They should really consult with a lawyer about their concerns. And Pete, guess it didn't take long before I started to think, you know, there's no reason why I couldn't become that lawyer. So I later left my job and went to Hofstra University School of Law, graduated. And while I was in law school, I did an internship at the Nassau County District Attorney's Office. Absolutely fell in love with the job. applied for a full-time position with them during my third year of law school. And I was very fortunate that the district attorney at the time, a fellow by the name of Dennis Dillon, was a very progressive, forward-thinking district attorney. And he based his hiring decision on my abilities rather than my disability. And he hired me to work as an assistant district attorney. And that's where ⁓ I set my career goals from that point on and I worked there more than 33 years full-time, another eight years part-time, and I absolutely loved the work. Peter: Oh yeah, definitely. You spent all that time there for sure. mean, but that's so cool though, because it's like all these opportunities just started folding more. So you get the job, then it's like, they should really get a lawyer. And you're like, you know what? I got you. I'm going go be that lawyer then because I can fight for these guys because I'm coming from their aspect. I see their side of the table, these conversations, which is awesome because now they have somebody fighting for them that understands what they're going through. Because you know, a lot of times that's people say. Well, what do you know about anything? What do you mean? I'm in the thick of this thing, you know? It's not like I'm just here hanging out, having a great time, you know what saying? But that's so cool though, that you just didn't let anything stop you though. And it's awesome, man. It's inspirational to these guys. Kenneth James Kunken: Thanks to hear that, you know, but let me tell you a little bit more about how I started work. Here I had gone through three years of law school in the standard three year time period. I passed the difficult New York State bar exam the first time that I took it. I began my work by participating in a very intensive four week training program where they taught us all aspects of trial techniques from a prosecutor's perspective. And I was so proud to go to court my first day, only to find I couldn't fit through the swinging doorways of the courtroom. They were too narrow to allow me to get through in my electric wheelchair. That's how I began. After all of that schooling, all of that work, I couldn't even fit through the doorways of the courtroom. Eventually, they widened them, but this was again well before the Americans with disabilities after. Peter: Jeez. God. Yeah, yeah, you know, that has to be an interesting first day. But I mean, look at you go. didn't let it stop you. You're still going 33 years down the road and you were still hammering away. Kenneth James Kunken: Yeah, might add too, before my injury, I always thought of myself as a bit of an introvert. You know, and when I was at Cornell and these big lectures, I'd sit basically in the very back of the auditorium, you know, in the big classrooms, never raised my hand, hope nobody would notice me and hope that I just blend in with the crowd. And now when I lost all my movement, I had to rely on my voice. Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: my speaking ability to speak up, actually draw attention to myself. And then later to work as an assistant district attorney where I'm appearing before juries and, you know, in large courtrooms and, you know, dealing with witnesses and ⁓ in a very visible position. It was also quite a transition and adjustment to become what I considered an introvert, to becoming a lot more of an extrovert. and doing public speaking and appearing before groups and organizations and being an advocate, that was quite a transition. Peter: Yeah, definitely. From football player to advocate now, man, it's a great story though. I you've done and accomplished, like I said, a lot more than most people have even accomplished in their lives at this point. You all these masters, you just keep racking up and all the different things. It's like you're not letting anything stop you and it's pure human will. And it's amazing though, man. It's great. So, you know, take us to when you met your wife though, because I know you're a dad of triplets, right? Like I had twins. I know what that was like with triplets, man. That had to be something else. Kenneth James Kunken: Well, ⁓ you know, I need help with all my physical activities. That's the reason I rely on a personal care attendant to basically bathe me, dress me, lift me in and out of the wheelchair, feed me, you know, do all of these things. So I went through many different attendants and ⁓ at one point I was looking for an attendant to help me on weekends. I put an ad in the paper and this wonderful woman responded. Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: by the name of Anna, ⁓ and I met her, was absolutely intrigued by her. And to my good fortune, ⁓ even though she had never done this work before, she agreed to work as my personal care attendant. And the more we got to know each other, the more our relationship became closer and closer. ⁓ It became... close friends and then into a romantic relationship. And then in 2003, we actually got married. So we've been married more than 22 years now. you know, following my injury, I never thought I would get married. I thought, you know, with my limitations, it just was not something in the picture. But to my surprise, not only did Anna want to marry me, and when I say want to marry me, Peter: There you go, congrats. That's awesome. Kenneth James Kunken: She actually proposed to me, Peter. So she clearly wanted to marry me. But she said that she wanted to have my baby and not just a baby, my baby. Now think about this, Peter. I had been paralyzed for more than 30 years at the time and I was already in my fifties. But we looked into various options, including in vitro fertilization, and we're very excited to learn it still may be possible for somebody in my condition, a father or a child. So we pursued it and lo and behold, I'm the father of triplets, triplet sons. And I was actually in the delivery room when they were born. My boys are now 21 years old. They're juniors at three separate colleges in upstate New York and doing exceptionally well. Peter: Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. What areas are they studying? Kenneth James Kunken: Well, my son Joseph is actually at Cordell, my alma mater, mechanical engineering. James is at the State University of New York at Morrisville, and he's studying renewable energy. And Timothy is at Syracuse University studying communications and wants to be a journalist. And they're all doing great. Peter: Okay, okay. Okay. That's awesome, though. I mean, especially journalism is pretty cool, especially the things that you get to do. We actually had a CNN guy that worked with Wolf Blitzer for eight years. has 22 years in journalism. He was on the show, too, when he came in and was telling us and he was telling us some of the things he got to do, all the traveling he to do. So I look forward to see here at some of things he's up to and things like that, because it's going to take him places he's never even imagined. I guarantee it, though, especially journalism, because it's so interesting the different things you can get into because, you know, all the areas they send them to and places they go. and all that kind of really cool stuff to see what he'll be doing. And the renewable energy source thing is pretty interesting too because all the new innovative things that they're coming with. So it sounds like they're all going down the right paths for different things, you know? Kenneth James Kunken: They sure are. And it's wonderful because, you know, they grew up doing everything together. And when they became seniors, they decided to go to three separate colleges and are now studying three separate majors. But let me just change the topic for a minute. You just mentioned Wolf Blitzer. And that brings to mind I met an individual by the name of John Dadakis that used to, right, that used to work for Wolf Blitzer. And John has become a writing coach. Peter: Mm-hmm. That's Yep. Kenneth James Kunken: And I made an agreement with him where he helped me eventually write a book about my life. And I wrote a book about my life. It's right behind me on the show. It's called I Dream of Things That Never Were, The Ken Cunken Story. And that was published two years ago. And it's now available not only in hardcover, but in an ebook version and an audiobook version. Peter: Mm-hmm. Heck yeah, that's awesome. know, John actually was the guest we were talking about. He was on the show. We loved having him. He was great. John and I had a really great conversation about everything too, because we were discussing his career. I told him I was a huge fan of Wolf Blitzer. Like, Wolf was one of my favorite guys to watch. That's the reason I watched the end in half the time, because I just enjoyed Wolf, the way he did things and the way he talked about everything and stuff like that. So that's so cool. That's funny that John was actually your writing coach. That's really cool to hear. Kenneth James Kunken: Yes, he was real helpful and I'm so proud that I finally was able to get my book published. Peter: Well, that's awesome, though. Plus your hardcover audio. A lot of people aren't even audio book at this point, too. A lot of people I meet on the show, a lot of authors that come in here and some of them are like, Oh, I haven't gone audio. I'm like, you're missing out on an avenue, Audio is the way to go. You think about it because you can plug and play anywhere you go. You can put a headphone in and start going and get so many other things done. Because that's like when I started doing this podcast beforehand, I've listened to different podcasts to get an idea like, what do I want to be? How do I want to be different than everybody else when I did it? And then when I started this, I was like, yeah, do I want any questions or do I want to be more of a conversationalist type? And it's like, you know what, let's just go with conversation. And ever since then, I've landed some interesting people that come in through the doors here, just random different stories. And a lot of them, some are not even mental health topic, honestly. I just interview them because I'm like, what the heck, let's go for it, why not? I got a chance to meet some these really interesting people. And John came to me, actually, he reached out to me on the show. And I'm looking at his credentials going, wait a minute, this guy is like Wolf Blitz or something. I'm leaving his credentials. I'm like, what? Like, this is so cool. And then he was there talking to us. And we had a great conversation. Like I said, he was really fun to talk to. he actually, him and I actually met. was remote. He was actually in the car when he did his interview. He was so cool though. Kenneth James Kunken: Yeah, he's a wonderful person. ⁓ ⁓ I might add, yeah, and I agree, and he was real helpful to me. But I might add with respect to my audio book, ⁓ I narrated it, but actually my son, Timothy, my son Timothy did the recording. He was the one that controlled all that and did it. So that was particularly, ⁓ don't worry for me in that that was the first time I actually read my story to my son. That was the first time he actually heard it. I mean, they all have read the book now. Peter: ⁓ there you go. There you go. Yeah. Kenneth James Kunken: That was the first time I was doing it, first time he was learning about much of my story was when he was doing the recording for my narrating. Peter: That's awesome though. mean, you're so unrecorded for you. He gets to your story. You're reading it to him. This story just keeps getting better and better, man. Like you're like, you're just hitting all the numbers here now because like that's so cool though. He recorded it for you and then he's learning more about the things you went through and how you're just not letting anything stop you. So do you have any words of advice for anybody at home that may be in your same situation? Maybe give them a little motivation because like your story's inspirational to anybody. It doesn't matter. Even if you're not college-replegic. This is still something inspiring because it just says that, just because you're limited doesn't mean you have to be stopped at what you can do. Kenneth James Kunken: Well, absolutely. you know, I want to convey to people that disability does not mean inability. There's still a lot you can do, even if you do have a disability. But in addition, we all face challenges in our life, Peter. I mean, some challenges are obviously bigger than others, but we all face challenges. We all face adversity in our life. And what's important is that we face it head on and hopefully with help from others if need be. Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: We overcome it. You know, we deal with it. And there's a lot everybody can still do. So my advice, one, is of course never give up. And two, just because something may be considered impossible doesn't mean you cannot do it now. There's an awful lot everybody can do if given the opportunity and getting the right support and the help if they need it to show that they can do something. Peter: Yeah, definitely. I agree. So Kenneth, let me ask you some questions about some things. know, like mental health for you, was it ever a big thing for you though? Like nowadays it's a little more of a glaring issue given like, you know, like we discussed a little bit before we started recording, like suicide rates were up. That's all the reason I even started the show is because it brought too much attention that was, know, like people in my range and in your age range are the two holosomatically to take their lives. You know, just with that being said, like I know things have changed from when you were, when you were going to school till now. Are you aware of any of these kind of things? Has this ever been a growing issue for you? Kenneth James Kunken: Absolutely, it's been a very big issue for me. I mean, following my injury, I was absolutely devastated. And for years and years and years, even though I went back to school and was working, I was severely depressed. Peter, to tell you how depressed I was, if I was physically able to do so, I'm sure I would have taken my life. But I was so disabled, I couldn't even do that. Peter: Yeah. Kenneth James Kunken: So yeah, I was about as depressed as anybody could be. And it's something that I've had to deal with, you know, for many years now. And with respect to anxiety, I always suffered with anxiety and, you know, the thought that I'm dependent on others. Suppose they leave, they're not available. They don't help me the right way. ⁓ What's going to be my future like? You know, I've had terrible times with anxiety. Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: And now I have a lot of problems with blood pressure as opposed to most people. My blood pressure is usually very low. And as a result, many times I feel like I may be about to pass out. And that causes a lot of anxiety with me because here I've worked, I've spoken before large groups of people in public, and I feel like I'm about to pass out when I'm in front of a large group because of my blood pressure issues. And because I'd been asked to do so many talks, like many people, a lot of people get anxious when they're doing public speaking. I certainly experienced a lot of that as well. So all of the mental health issues have been very real for me. ⁓ I've had to work really hard to overcome them, put them aside as best I could and try not to focus on the things that I could not control and Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kenneth James Kunken: Instead, try to focus on what I could do, what I could control, and make the best of it. Peter: Well, it's your background in psychology, though. You understand things at a deeper level than most people do, though, too, though. You have a better understanding of a lot of these things. You know, is there anything these days you see that just like people say that you're just like, oh, could you just stop saying those kind of things? You know what mean? Like you get on the Internet these days. It's like the craziest things they just say, because people say like, oh, I use chat GPT as my therapist was one of the big topics recently. I was like, God, please stop doing that. Like, that's just like. one of those trends that go around that people are doing and think that's funny, but it's really not because, when I started this podcast, I was looking to see where people are having conversation about this, but a of them were doctors. I was like, okay, cool. Doctors talk to you all day. But a lot of people don't want to talk to a therapist, you know, but when I put this idea out and my inbox exploded, I thought my phone was fact, was going to blow up man as fast as it was going off. Like I got 150 responses to the original post about this show I did because I was like, Hey, this is the concept I'm thinking of. What do you think? And I said, coming from my background and being just an average person that deals with his own personal issues, I just want to have conversations with other people that have the same thing. And you'd be amazed, these people just lining up around the door to talk to me. And I'm like, ⁓ OK, maybe I've got something here. And then here we are about third season into this thing. It's just been nothing but interesting conversations every time I had click. At first, the anxiety was really bad for me. Like I was real nervous because I was like, you know, but now I can have a conversation with anybody. Like I first five minutes is just a warm up here. You know, get a little feel for the person, you know, and then we're after the races, you know. And we've covered every issue. Like I've covered everything from, you know, breast cancer memoirs to everything else. Like I don't leave topics untouched. Like I don't have a problem talking about anything on here, which is great because like I'm always open to having new conversations. So it's great when I see stuff like that. And when Anna, Anna, wrote shout to me and told me a little bit your story, I was like, ⁓ yeah, definitely for sure. Like I gotta have you. I didn't realize you'd been waiting so long to talk to me though. I was like, I looked at it, was like, damn, this message came from August and what? Kenneth James Kunken: Yeah. Well, I got to add Peter, you know, the more I've spoken to different people, ⁓ I realize and appreciate we all suffer from anxiety at different times, you know, in different varieties of intensity and all. And we all have things that we fear and are concerned about. And how I, you know, I worry about my kids every step of the way and every day. But, you know, these are very real concerns, very real feelings. Peter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: And when I was first in the hospital, the rehab facility, I actually found speaking with a psychologist was not helpful. What I found was most helpful was speaking with close family members and friends that I felt ⁓ could I ⁓ confided in and that could, you know, more associate with me and not a professional that tried to keep their distance and tried to give me, you know, pat answers that I thought. That may be good for somebody else, but that's not me. Right. And I know for a while I was doing all these crazy things. mean, going back to Cornell and dealing with the architectural barriers and pushing myself and pushing myself. And I remember speaking to a psychologist and the psychologist actually said to me, you know, you're just not accepting your disability. And it's like, what? I am not accepting it, I guess, but that's not a bad thing. Peter: Yeah. You're right. Kenneth James Kunken: Right? I'm not letting it limit me. And they seem to think at least that particular person, you know, you're not fitting that stereotype of somebody that, you know, needs to take that period to accept what happened to you and live with it. And I'm saying, no, I will never be that person. ⁓ and I want to emphasize to others, you don't have to settle. You don't have to be that particular person. Peter: Yeah. Kenneth James Kunken: There's a lot we all can do and I want people to appreciate that. Peter: So it was meant to help the big topic in the conversation with the boys as they were growing up. Did you talk to them as they got older and kind of just had like conversations with them so they better understood things? Because with your psychology background, you could probably explain it to them better than most people could. Like, hey, listen, fellas, if you're feeling these certain ways, let's make sure we get you some help before it becomes a problem. That kind of conversation. Kenneth James Kunken: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, even though they're triplets, they all have their own individual issues, all different concerns, and they deal with each one and treat them as individuals, but show them there's an awful lot they all can do if they work at it and try hard. But, you know, I found working at the district attorney's office, right, everybody has their own issues, their own problems, their own concerns, including the assistant DAs. A lot of them Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: you know, still got anxious when they appeared before a jury or in court. And I found that my psychology background and my work experience, I felt helped me deal with that and helped me get them to relax more, you know, and be more comfortable with what they were doing. And I found that this helped a lot, whether it be through work or dealing with friends and family. It's made a big difference. And especially being a father. Peter: day. Yeah, then also, also statistically, Ken, you you discussing these things as a man, you're already ahead of the group because a lot of us men don't discuss these kind of things. And then you have a psychology background, which even better because you understand things on a deeper level that you could break it down for people to understand. And on a level that a lot of them wouldn't understand, especially going from where you were to where you're now, things have changed. A lot of things have changed, actually. You know, the way they look at a lot of things these days are different and all the different things they have nowadays, because talk therapy just isn't the only thing now. You have hypnotherapy and all these other things they started adding in recently that all these people are doing in different areas of things, which is really cool though, because like, you know, you're, you're already ahead of the curve because you're talking to your voice about it. You're talking to the DA's office about it. You're using it for yourself. I mean, you're, you're ahead of the curve by far, man, which is awesome to hear because, know, we don't talk about enough as men for whatever reason, but it's just, you know, at the same time, think a lot of people that realize when that's being said is that people in the 1970s didn't really talk about these things. It wasn't the same mindset as that we have nowadays that people are more open to discuss these things. So I feel like it's like, you know, it's like people talking about millennials now saying like, oh, they're too sensitive. I don't know if it's really the case. think it's just, they're just a product of their environment. You know, like you only knew what you were new because that's what you were raised on. But then when you went into your psychology background, you understand a little bit. a on a deeper level than most people do, then you applied it to your life now and you're talking to your boys about it, which is great because I think a lot of these guys, these kids need to learn how to mostly regulate at a younger age that way they understand these feelings of what they're having so we can try and drive this number down because like what was looking at today, I think you already had 176,000 suicide deaths already in 2026. And it's just crazy. Do think that mostly that most of those are probably men? Honestly, if you look at the statistics every year, it's 82, 81 % somewhere in between there. I know it's a really high number for us, and it's like you and I being here today having this conversation, we're already beating the numbers already talking about these things. So I appreciate you and what you're doing, man. The story alone is just amazing. The fact that you just didn't let anything stop you. And look at you go, man. You're still going. You still bubble every time you mention me. Every time you talk this whole time, you just glue, man. It's awesome. Kenneth James Kunken: Thank you. Well, I particularly like the fact that I chose to title my book, I dream of things that never were the Ken Cunken story, because I believe you don't need to that stereotype. There's an awful lot everybody could do. And just because it has not been done before doesn't mean you cannot do it now. But I'd like to just tell you where I got the title of my book. While I was still in the rehab facility, I was asked to testify before United States Senate Health Subcommittee. Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Kenneth James Kunken: shared by Senator Edward Kennedy. And eight days after my testimony, Senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the senator said his late brother Robert Kennedy liked very much. And the inscription read, some men see things as they are and say why. I dream of things that never were. Say why not? And that's why I got the title of my book. And that's what I wanted to convey to everybody. Peter: I love it. Kenneth James Kunken: You can dream of things that never were and make it happen for yourself. Peter: I love it. That's so cool, though. That's where you got the title from. Especially one of the Kennedy's. was like, man, now I'm jealous now because that would be so cool, though. That had to be so cool to meet him, though, because, you know, like just given the historic figure of his family, JFK and all them other, you know, just just for it to come from Robert Kennedy alone, it's just that's that's so cool, man. Like, that's awesome. And then you have the paper right there. So you get to see it all the time. So it's like it's like, wow, you know, like I'm using his own words, you know, to, you know, his phrase. It makes sense, though. I mean. Kenneth James Kunken: It was. Peter: It's that's awesome, man. I'm jealous. I'm really I'm jealous. That's so cool. That would have been so cool to do, though. So but Kenneth, we're at the fun part of this interview. I don't know if you've ever seen what he's in with these show interviews before, but I asked people two important questions. So the final first one is a little bit of a fun question I've been asking people. So I borrowed this from a friend of mine. She runs a podcast that's called The Shit That Goes On Her Head. She just actually won the award for best mental podcast in her respective category with Kimber, which which board it was on. But she she, know, hats off to Gretchen. ⁓ She asked me the same question I'm about to ask you so Kenneth if your mental health had a song What would you say that song would be? Kenneth James Kunken: Say that again. Peter: If your mental health had a song, what would you say that song would be? This is a fun question though too because a lot of people's answers come out are pretty hilarious. Kenneth James Kunken: Well, you know, I remember being particularly impressed with the song from, ⁓ what was it, where this is me, ⁓ right? And people are talking about themselves and their life. ⁓ And I've just been so impressed by me. This is me. I want people to realize, you know, whatever they think, however different I am, I may be different, but this is me. And I accept myself. Peter: ⁓ huh. Kenneth James Kunken: And there's a lot I can do and I'm proud of it. Peter: I love it. It's such a great it's a great question, though, because the funny answers you get, we've got Michael Jackson beat it a few times. We Susan Stowe said rage against the machine. We've had we've had some interesting answers come out when that question comes out, because I feel like, damn, that's a really good question, man. You know, so. All right. So here comes the big question. The reason this whole podcast started. So, Kenneth, to you is if you could break the stigma about mental health. Now, when I ask you this question. Kenneth James Kunken: that will get you to. Peter: It's just anything that you see nowadays that you just feel like you want people to stop believing. What would you say that one thing would be? Kenneth James Kunken: Well, again, it's disability does not mean inability, but also stop sweating the small stuff. I mean, we all have issues, but it's small stuff. You know, look at the big picture. Look at all the positives in your life, all the things you can still do. I mean, to me, if I could go and sit by the water and appreciate how carving it is, how beautiful the ocean looks today, because I'm not that far from the beach or... Peter: Mm-hmm. Kenneth James Kunken: Go out in the park and just see and commune with nature, right, for a bit and how relaxing and wonderful life can be. It's that, you know, it's look at the positives and everything that's taking place around you and not focus on the negatives, right? Appreciate what you have and what you can do and do everything you can to help others. Because if there's nothing else that you have going for you, that'll help you feel better. knowing you're making a difference in other people's lives. Peter: I love it, I absolutely love it. Ken, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me today, man. I really appreciate you coming. Before we start wrapping up, why don't you let me know where they can find you? What's the best place to find you? Kenneth James Kunken: I think it'd go on my website, which is kenkunkin.com, and that'll tell them more about me and how they can find me. ⁓ And it'll also tell them how they can purchase the book if they would like. ⁓ And that would be another way to learn a lot more about me. But the website's probably the best place. Peter: Awesome. Sounds great. Well, Ken, thank you so much for coming to hang out with me today, It was an honor meeting you. I'm so glad I got to hang out and share your story. I really do appreciate you coming to hang out, you know, and I look forward to see what the kids are up to in the next 10 years. I feel like they're going to be doing some big things just like you, man. They got you as an inspiration. So now they just only have to beat the bar now. Dad's at the bar now. We got to pass them now at this point, you know, and that's what you want to see. You want to see them succeed. further than you have. But Ken, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us again. Do you have any inspirational words for everybody at home before we start signing off? Kenneth James Kunken: Thank you, Peter. Well, one, I enjoy doing this, but two, I never thought 55 years ago of my injury that this is where I'd be at today. And I just really think the key thing is never give up, right? Never stop striving to do more with your life. Appreciate what you have. Appreciate what's taking place around you and work hard to make your dreams come true. Just because something has not been done before doesn't mean you cannot do it now. Peter: Absolutely love it guys and with that being said we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete first anxiety I'm peace for anxiety on Spotify all the way down on Pandora radio You guys can find me on tik tok all the way down to X and as always say it costs nothing Absolutely be kind to somebody one kind act you can do can save some time for hell you can make their day I'm Pete first anxiety saying I'll stand don't ask how your day they say hey, how's your mental health?