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5-for-5 & NIL · Yips and Giggles

• speaker-0: What's up guys? Welcome to our podcast. speaker-1: She finally realized that it was all mental. Guys, welcome back to Yifs and Giggles. This is the first episode of season two. Let's go two. Let's go. That's speaker-0: Crazy. speaker-1: crazy. I can't believe I mean we started this in January. I can't believe we're already in well, what will be September when we release this? my god. I feel like August went by in about two seconds. speaker-0: The the summer went by in the blink of an eye. Summer went by in the blink of an eye. speaker-1: There's so much going on. Like there's just so much much going on. I mean speaker-0: Yeah, catch us up on wha what happened with you? What what how's your summer? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean pretty much all over North America, basically, which was fun. I mean, World Cup was amazing and Canada ended up doing the best that they've ever done. So can't ask for much more than that. and Anya got to go to a couple games, like we were full on soccer fans this summer. Still got the Brazil shirt. speaker-0: I'm still I'm still in World Cup mode. speaker-1: Still rockin' the bee, still rockin'. speaker-0: Another couple months before I get rid of it. Yeah, no. I I think the World Cup this year was super fun. I think it ended up turning out great. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: What a great look for soccer, great look for North America. speaker-1: I'm glad we got to kind of meet up in the middle of all of it and talk about the World Cup. And if anyone hasn't seen that episode, feel free to go back, listen to it, watch it. I think it was actually really fun to kind of chat since we had been to the games. and I think this season we're getting quite a few guests coming on soon. And I'm really excited about that. lots of tennis players. We've actually got some Scottish athletes coming on as well. We've got influence kind of sports influencers. I'm We're hitting all the we're hitting checking all the boxes. so I'm so I'm excited to chat with everyone. But I think today we're gonna get into a lot of the NCAA rulings that have happened recently, specifically looking at the five for five rule, really doing a deep dive into NIL deals because I feel like a lot of people don't truly understand what's going on behind them. I was one of them until I actually like did research on it. And so I kinda w I really want to give people a better idea of what is going on behind the scenes with this, right? 'cause it it is confusing, especially with everything that's going on right now. I've become very passionate about it in the last month. speaker-0: Peyton's been like texting me. Me like, I'm preparing for this episode and I'm heated right now. I am so heated right now. speaker-1: Literally, literally. I try to stay positive with things, but I'm very passionate about college sport. Speaking of also the podcast and everything, I have a really funny story to share with you, Anya, that I just have to get off my chest before we actually start getting into the the nitty-gritty yeah of things. Okay. So speaker-0: I'm ready. speaker-1: yeah. So this past weekend, Alistair was out with his agent. And after like one of the Celtic games or whatever. And for people that are new here, my husband plays for Celtic and plays for Canada as well in soccer. And so basically what happened was they were just chilling and this girl comes up to them and she's like, I know who you are. Which obviously is not an uncommon thing for him to get in Glasgow, right? Like people know who he is because he place for something. And he's like, like you know, he's expecting like the usual speaker-0: Yeah yeah yeah. speaker-1: And she goes, I know your wife's TikToks. I know you from your wife's TikToks. No way. speaker-0: Yes, finally, Alistair Johnson, Peyton Pescevento's husband. Like Johnson's husband. speaker-1: I was like, You are joking. I was like, because I knew it wasn't because of my personal account. I I post on there maybe once a year for the past five years. You know what I mean? I was like, Yeah, surely it wasn't my my personal account. And so he was like, my God, yeah, it w it was because of your podcast. I was like, Yeah. speaker-0: I was like, Peyton, we made it first tier. But like First Tier. speaker-1: Can you imagine just like what's going through his head? He's like, you know, like just, you know, fan or something coming up to say hi. And then she goes, Your wife's tick like, you're on your wife's TikToks. Like I know about you because of your wife's wife's TikToks. I was like, I was like, the algorithm is working. speaker-0: Yes, guys. This like actually made my day. speaker-1: No, literally it made my night when he told me. I was like, You're kidding. You're kidding. So thanks for the support. speaker-0: You're gonna get way more popular than you are. speaker-1: Thanks for the support, guys. Appreciate it. speaker-0: Gosh, that's awesome. That's that's great that like people actually watch and listen. We're not literally just talking to each other and having our parents be our four monthly listeners. Like that's that's great. While we continue our rise to fame, we're gonna continue bringing the amazing content to you guys too. speaker-1: A hundred percent. speaker-0: And what better way to kick that off than talking about our favorite tournament of the year is starting, well at least for me, US Open. US Open for tennis. Not for golf, although that tournament's great too. I'm excited. What speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: who do you think's gonna win? I actually have no clue who's gonna win. This might be speaker-1: I think Coco's looking really good and but I also think I think it's Pagula's time, man. I think speaker-0: I was gonna say that she needs to get one. I think she's been playing great. Yeah. speaker-1: She wins everything outside of it. You know what I mean? Like she she's got it. She's got the ability to do it. Okay. speaker-0: And then so no sinner on the men's side. speaker-1: Center. speaker-0: Alcaraz is making his return, first turning back since April. speaker-1: Everyone's saying, Serena's carrying Carlos in the mixed doubles. I don't know. Like coming off of such a significant wrist injury and playing three out of five, that's gonna be tough. But it is Carlos, so you never know. Yeah. You never know. I'm enjoying his long hair though. Me too. The speaker-0: The flow looks speaker-1: flow is flowing. I think it'd be really cool if it were like. an American on the women's and men's side that that would take it all. speaker-0: Well, there also hasn't been a male American player winning a grand slam since Andy Roddick in was it two thousand three. Yeah. And speaking of Andy Roddick, Andy and Fed, Roger Federer, yeah, were playing some like exhibition stuff before. Yeah. I know you were watching Peyton, I was also watching a little bit. That's just so nostalgic. Like it was so great to see. Fed still got it. Andy still got it. Feds being inducted into the tennis hall of fame this weekend, or I think it was last night maybe. I don't know, I just miss the good old days. speaker-1: I know. And like Andy serve? One thirty four, first serve in the match. I was like hello? Like, my shoulder hurts when I serve. speaker-0: How many tennis players can serve that hard right now who are like active? speaker-1: Hundred percent. A hundred percent. But honestly, also props to Andy for being like the best sport ever when it comes to like his and Fed's matches. Like he unfortunately lost so many head to head against Fed and especially in like finals of slams and stuff like that. And so I just feel like he was always such a good sport about it. Like he'd make a joke about it or you know, he he would never be super, super down when, you know, there's gotta be A little bit of sadness in the back of your brain. It's like, God, I did it again. speaker-0: It's like God I have to play this guy. But again, I had I had like relationship like that with one of the girls growing up from my town. Like I lost her every s like I would we would play each other in every single tournament in the quarters and I would lose her every speaker-1: the worst case. speaker-0: single time. But after a certain point after a certain point you kind of just like you're like is what it is like speaker-1: You're doing as much as you can do as much as you can. speaker-0: shout out Steph seventeen times speaker-1: When you're playing Prime Fed speaker-0: in a row speaker-1: Yeah. my God. When you're playing Prime Fed, you can't really, I mean, you can only do so much. Truly. You can only do so much. Yeah. I think also it's really great to see how many college players or at least former college players were in the qualifying. Yeah. So I really think that the college route is becoming more and more like a chosen way to get into, you know, bigger tournaments. and being able to actually compete and and improve. I speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's getting to a p point where it's not like if you choose college, you have your chances of going pro are over. Like I think college is becoming a great spot for people to be like, no, I need to develop my whatever strength, agility, my game for a couple of years. And now with all the resources that schools have and you know, again, we're gonna get into this too with like NIL and the prize money and stuff, but College is just a stepping stone. It's not like done, you can't do anything. speaker-1: It's a pathway. It's a pathway. So it's good to see that that is succeeding on some level at least. also another thing. I, you know, with college gearing up and season starting for the fall, football, I think volleyball is also start has already started up. I think they had their first match last weekend. It is incredible if I compare, let's say, our freshman year. I knew speaker-0: Go into this. speaker-1: Our media day versus media days for for example, I I was watching Nebraska volleyball's TikTok. Yes. And they had their like full like introduction to the team and thing. I mean, it is so sick. And then I look back at our media day and shout out to Terrell. He was working with what he had, what he was given. He was an amazing guy, amazing videographer, photographer. We literally did our first media day in like a office building on campus with like a green screen behind us. And I mean the quality is just I'm gonna put a photo up for sure of it. Night and day. Night and day. I mean, this is speaker-0: time it seemed like it was the coolest thing ever. So it's like hindsight is always twenty twenty. speaker-1: Coolest thing ever. I like right. Exactly. But I mean, today it is a full-on production. I mean, it is so sick. It is so sick. That is one thing that I think has been really cool for college sports. People are getting into it. And and I and I think people are being, you know, so creative with these teams, and it's really cool to see. I also wanted to get into these topics today because of college sports. And I really really, really, really enjoyed watching the Yukon women's basketball documentary. It it it was a lot about Gino and everything and the and coaching, but a lot of it was the players as well. it was just it was so interesting because, you know, obviously Gino kind of coached them into becoming such a powerhouse of a team, right? From, you know, they weren't even ranked at one point. And then he came in and you obviously have s seen what he's done. And They did like everything about kind of how they've won the first championship, first national championship. I'm not kidding on you. I got emotional. I genuinely got emotional watching them win the championship. I was like, my God, like these like these girls worked so hard. I just feel like nowadays there's so much going on outside of the actual college sport that it's just not the same. Like it was just a bit more. About the actual game. You know? speaker-0: more about the team yes and the game versus like the individual, right? And I feel like yeah, like you you were coming into something that you were like really wanting to be a part of. Right. At least that's how I felt when we even like we were in college and our like NIL started becoming a thing like towards the end of our college careers. But especially in the beginning, like people would choose teams and stay at them more often because You come in and it feels like a family and it feels like you're a part of something bigger than yourself. Right. Mm-hmm. Versus now, and again we'll get into this, but it's all about like what what's the best deal you can get for the most part. Yeah. Again, there's exceptions to everything, but I feel like for especially like those sports like football, where you're getting like paid millions of dollars, like it's about like how what's the what's the best deal. speaker-1: My payday. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. So I I highly recommend that documentary. I think it's on Apple TV if if people are interested. And they also talk about, you know, Pat Summit and Tennessee and how much of a powerhouse they were and everything that she did for the sport as well. and that rivalry that they had, because that that obviously got interesting. and you know, I'll talk about this later as well, but the rivalry in college sports, it's just It's unlike any other, you know, like UNC, Duke, Tennessee and Yukon. Like it is just I love it. I like it makes it truly. speaker-0: That's what makes it. Like the schedule comes out and people circle a date. And speaker-1: On the schedule. yeah. speaker-0: it's like especially like if you're a fan, like it's it's it's so fun. It's so fun. It's so fun if you're a player, so fun if you're a coach, I'm sure. Like it it just it just it's what makes it college sports. Like I know there's rivalries in professional sports too, but college sports is like It's it's college sports, I think, is so relatable and so popular because everyone has some sort of an attachment if they went to school. Yes. Or if their family went somewhere to school. Versus like professional sports is kinda kinda just like who you've cheered for for the most part and where you grew up, right? But like it's very rare that like your family was a part of a professional sports organization. Right. Everyone who not everyone. A lot of people go to college. That's all I'm trying to say. And it feels like feels like they're a part of something. speaker-1: And I also think it's the fact that you've got a bunch of well This might be a little bit different now. Got a bunch of 18 and 22 year olds normally that are just absolutely just grinding. They're just absolutely grinding. And they are living for that rivalry game. Like living for it. so yeah, I agree. It it it it is special. It's special. And, you know, speaking of college sports, we just need to talk about what the heck is happening with the NCAA. What the heck is happening? I mean speaker-0: Rulings left and right. Like speaker-1: It's just chaos right now. And I feel like I mean, if we look back at what the NCAA used to be like versus now, like do you remember whenever we would host like recruit for a visit and we get those little envelopes with I don't know, fifty bucks in cash with it. Yeah. They're like, You need to get every receipt, you need to get every penny of change back in this envelope, or else we're gonna have some problems. No, speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: it's like You can do whatever you want. You can come back to school. You can not come back to school. You you can have a seventh year. You do whatever you want. Well now now, but like it's speaker-0: No now not. speaker-1: it's it's been so chaotic and so confusing for everybody. I just it's a lot. It's a lot for the athletes. It's a lot for the coaches, teams, programs. I I don't know how you handle it at this point. speaker-0: Yeah. I I remember like we used to like be sitting there figuring out like okay, like if we go to dinner at this place, like will we still have enough left over to take the recruit to the movies and get like a thing of popcorn? Like what's that gonna look like? Like and now it's just it's the wild, wild west. Like it's it's different. I mean, again, it's it's new, relatively new. So we'll see how it continues developing over the next few years. But is it a good change? Is it a bad change? Like I think we have our own personal opinions on it. Right. Again, we'll see kind of how it plays out. But let's get into this five for five rule. Yeah. do you want to run us through actually speaker-1: For people. speaker-0: what happened? So June twenty twenty six is kind of when it all started. speaker-1: Yeah, that's when everything kind of went a little crazy. And there were rumors about the five for five rule coming in, and I was like, no, that's not gonna happen. speaker-0: I know, I remember reading about it and I think you and I even talked about it when we saw each other in April. We were like speaker-1: month later, we're like, so so it is a thing. So basically the NCAA cabinet approved this five for five model in June this year. Basically what it is, it's it's altered eligibility rules, right? So it's an age-based model where you have five years to complete five seasons of play. So I mean they've kept it simple in that aspect, but speaker-0: And it's five continuous years. speaker-1: continuous years. Yeah. Yeah. And so Basically how it works is your time starts at full time enrollment at a university or program or whatever. or it's the academic year following that athlete's 19th birthday, if they turn 19 on or after September 1st. So that's those are really the you know, set in stone parameters kind of for for this type of ruling. Very interesting part of it is there are no more red shirts. And so basically you can't pause the five-year period for any reason other than military service, religious missions, or pregnancy. And so, in my eyes, for players, if you have like a major injury, you you can't get a red shirt anymore. So basically how a red shirt works for those that don't know is it's almost like pausing an eligibility clock, right? So we talk about this on For pro tours, it's almost like freezing a ranking on tour when you get injured. Like you're able to do that. And so that's kind of what a red shirt was like in college. and so now I'm just a little bit worried that, you know, because let's take let's take a look at like women's soccer. Women's soccer, you will very much see torn ACLs multiple times, right? So that's multiple seasons that a player could be out. So I think that's a lot of anxiety just knowing that like they only have this certain window to play, no matter what, even if they just keep getting injured and injured and injured and injured. And so I also think I get a little bit worried that athletes are going to try to return to play too soon because they're like, my God, I only have this amount of time to actually, you know, be a college athlete. So I gotta go now. You know what I mean? speaker-0: Yeah. I like I understand why it was put into place because you do sometimes see like even people with minor injuries just taking a red shirt. Right. Just so that they have an extra semester or season to play. But I do feel like it's like if you're healthy the whole time, you can play five five seasons, right? Versus if you get injured once, it's already cut down to four. If you get injured twice, it's cut down to three. So it's like it's kind of just luck of the draw almost of like what sport you play, how injury prone you are, what happens and versus before it used to be like, Well, we're trying to make sure or guarantee that every person has an equal chance to play or to have the ability to play four semesters or whatever it was. Right. Right. So speaker-1: I'm also thinking like, what if they're in their senior year and they're not planning on taking maybe that fifth year, but then all of a sudden they do get hurt, they can't take a redshirt and they don't have a senior season. Yeah, when do you have to decide if you are going the full five years? You know what I mean? I actually don't know the answer to that question. speaker-0: I have no clue. speaker-1: Because, you know, regular school, you're gonna be done in four years. You'd need to do like a master's program or if you're doing like a certain double major or whatever, you'd stay there a little bit longer, maybe. speaker-0: Yeah, that 'cause I was gonna ask that, like, is it five for five like undergrad? Or there's like no stipulations on like if you do four plus one year of masters or I I knew some people who did like four plus like some sort of certificate. Like is that allowed? speaker-1: Yeah. That's a great question. And I think that's probably gonna be talked about a lot in the coming year. Because I have heard there have been some talks about putting in almost like a master's package into the five year deal. So it's like you would do four years of undergrad and then do a year of some sort of master's. Also, I went into university undeclared. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. So I don't know what I would master in. speaker-0: Exactly. speaker-1: You know what I mean? No clue. I just want to quickly chat about what actually happened this summer and then we can get into the kind of nitty-gritty of the actual financials and funding of that because it is quite interesting. but so all of that happened in June, right? Where they actually implemented the five or five. Then in July, a federal court in Denver said that the model had to include the high school class of 2022 athletes, right? So whoever the athletes that just finished their fourth season, they're like, we need to include them into this and so speaker-0: Basically it's like, Hey, you just graduated and you might already have a job, but by the way, you have an extra year of eligibility next year. speaker-1: Exactly. It's like I'm sure a lot tons of athletes were like, interesting. Yeah. Maybe I could change my path here. Maybe I could get a master's in something, get it paid for. Maybe my coach would want me back. I'm sure it it's very different across all sports, right? Yeah. Last week they reversed that decision for the class of 2022 athletes. So they are not a part of this model anymore. I mean I literally was on TikTok and I was seeing this happen in real time. There were athletes in their locker room. They're like, when you get the notification that you're actually not eligible for this season, even though you just moved your entire life back to campus and were completely planning on competing like next week. I'm like, what are we doing? speaker-0: I can't even imagine. Also, like, how are we making these decisions so late? Like, right. speaker-1: Eight. speaker-0: I my gosh. That's speaker-1: I can't imagine. speaker-0: that's actually gotta be insane. And like, what if people had plans or job offers and they postponed them? Right. Cause they they're like, I have one more year. Like you, like you said, like maybe it's someone, a senior who maybe got injured at the last, yep, I don't know, critical junction of the season and wasn't able to take a red shirt. Right. Right. So it's like, ugh. I finished out the last month of my career, I was on the sidelines. And now they get a chance to play again. They push off whatever their plans were. Yep. And now it's like, just kidding. You can't do it. and by the way, you're enrolled in this master's program and you probably can't have this athletic scholarship too, I'm assuming, at this point. So luck. speaker-1: I think it just has blown up. It is blown up. But I will say there are a couple different courts in different states that have actually been like, no, we're still gonna include the class of 2022. I there's there's no there's no true regulation to this right now. It's it's like we're just throwing things in left and right and certain schools and conferences and state courts are able to decide on different things versus, you know, other courts might not be as lenient with this stuff. So there is a bit of an advantage being in one state versus the other. And it's just it's all over the place, man. I mean, I the amount of like uncertainty about your future as an athlete right now as a college athlete is pretty crazy. And I think it also has a really big impact on how you handle kind of moving out of sport and your identity. Like speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: they really didn't have time to be like, so I am I I am done. Like I am done with the sport now. Talk about abrupt. speaker-0: Truthful. Yeah, it's like back and forth. It's like I'm done. wait, no, I have one more year, like finish what I started. Nope, you're at you're actually done, done. Yeah. But no, wait, maybe actually maybe this other court said that maybe I'm not done. Yeah. and by the way, did you see this? The Big Ten and SEC announced their own like regulations. I think it was specifically for like the NFL, like the players who participated in the NFL training camps. Yep. And then obviously all this news came out and like they began entering transfer portals to see if they could play one more one more fall. speaker-1: Everyone's scrambling back in. speaker-0: Yeah. So I think the the Big Ten announced a regulation where they're prohibiting players who s or like already signed a pro contract, right, were on a pro roster at any point or just declared for the draft the NFL draft. Right. kind of as an underclassman without withdrawing, right? So like you used to be able to do that and still kind of stay in college. You didn't have to like officially withdraw. And then the SEC kind of did something similar, right? So prohibited players who declared for NFL, NBA or WNBA drafts without withdrawing. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: and then also again signed a contract with pro team or are listed on a roster. so again, now it's it's differing from conference to conference too. speaker-1: Yep. yeah. speaker-0: Does that give the ACC an advantage over the Big Ten and the SEC if they're gonna let like people who have ties to pro teams come back? I it just seems like it's it's a mess. Like no one's kind of on the same page. And again, like that was bound to happen with when something like this comes out so late in the year two. Like honestly, I kind of wish the ruling would have been like starting with the summer of twenty twenty seven, this rule goes into effect. Right. Not goes into effect immediately. Right. Like so people could have some time to figure some stuff out. Figure out what this is gonna look like. Yeah. speaker-1: And I know, I know that like it is a very fast paced, ever changing world. I know they need to make these decisions, but I just feel like this was so rushed at this point. and I feel like honestly, the only advice that I can give to athletes that are going through this right now is like you really can only focus on the controllables at this point. You you can't control what the NCA is gonna do, you know. you can really only leave that to them, to the conferences, to the, you know, governing bodies that are actually controlling all of these regulations and rules or whatever. So I think it's important to focus on what you can control, which is basically be ready if you are gonna play, but also make backup plans. Make backup plans because speaker-0: Yeah. Have a plan B, C, D exact through Z. Cause speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah. speaker-0: again, this is a generalization. This is a very broad statement. So like this doesn't apply to everyone, obviously, but I do feel like in today's environment too, there's a lot more people who kind of just wanna almost like use you, like get what they can out of you and then move on to the next thing if something doesn't work out, versus before again it used to be a little more like a family, like Yes. And again, like Coach like coaches care about their players, like everything like but there's just so many more different parties involved in it now. So just kind of be aware of aware of that and aware of the types of people that you're interacting with and sometimes know that again anytime money comes into the question, it just it it messes things up and speaker-1: Okay, it's yeah. No, I I I completely agree. And that's where I think it is turning a bit more into professional sport because you know, professional sport, you as a professional athlete, you're almost like a commodity. You are something that based on your contract, four years, five years, whatever, they want to use as they want to use you up. They want to use you as much as possible for those four or five years, right? Yeah. They want to get everything out of you. And so I think. That's with this five for five. I think college sports is turning into that a little bit because again, these programs want to get as much out of you as they can within that five year period. And now athletes know that. And so I think people might almost experience a little bit of identity foreclosure with this stuff. It's like, okay, I'm an athlete for these five years. I need to just be an athlete. I can't do other things. I you know, I can't focus on other identities that I have. I have to focus on just being an athlete. So which can obviously we've talked about this can lead to burnout and and tons of other things that you you don't want to happen during during your time as a college athlete, which can obviously speaker-0: Even speaker-1: other things, but speaker-0: well, even like preparing for the future, again, I know we've talked about this in the past, but like if especially if your athletic identity v is even more so emphasized now with this five for five thing, like even when we were playing tennis and we didn't have this, like I kind of had the feeling of like I can't really focus super hard on internship for the summer because tennis is my job. Like I have to and it wasn't even like my job at that point, but I have to play speaker-1: We weren't getting paid like these people. speaker-0: Yeah, no, no, no. so now I feel like that's gonna make it even worse. And again, like we've talked about the statistics of actually making it to the pros, like how much do you wanna focus on the now and like the the making of money now versus like actually setting yourself up for the future? I mean, I think that's a conversation you can have for that can go in a lot of different ways and like you can go down a rabbit hole with that. But I'm I just worry about that too of like the ones who probably aren't gonna make it professionally. Is this hurting them? too because they're focused more on like again the athletic part of their identity versus maybe preparing for like the business part of their identity or et cetera. speaker-1: Outside of sport, basically. Yeah. and trans transitioning into that at least is difficult. Speaking of you know, getting paid, I really want to go through NIL a little bit. and because I feel like again, everyone's like, NIL, NIL, people getting paid, football players getting paid, blah blah blah, but they don't actually know what it is specifically. So I really, really want to go through that. so for those that don't know. NIL stands for name, image, and likeness. But what does that actually mean? It basically means that it's an athlete's legal right to control how their image is used. Okay. So back in 2021, the NCAA finally like allowed student athletes to profit from NIL, which was huge. I mean, that has been a debate for I don't know how long. Like athletes are allowed to have agents. They can have like professionals help them with marketing. I mean, it's a whole it's a whole thing. and kind of how it works is each school has their own sort of policy around NIL. And there's also state laws that dictate what type of deals these athletes can take, right? So what type of products they can promote or what sort of training they have to have prior to actually doing these deals, which I think is important to have some form of business training or, you know, financial advising along with all this. And of course, there are gonna be different levels to this, right? Like sometimes you'll see like a lower level program have athletes doing sort of like mom and pop marketing, you know, whereas like I speaker-0: Yeah, like local businesses. Yeah. Which I speaker-1: actually think is really cool. but then you'll have other big athl, like, you know, certain caliber athletes that will have huge publicity and will get bigger deals. I mean, that's just kind of the way of the world, right? There's regulations involved with NIL. And I want to get into this because it gets a little blurry. I'm not gonna lie, it gets a little blurry. I don't I don't know how much you've actually like seen of this Anya, but it's very interesting to look at sort of the legal jargon of this and what's actually like comparing that to what's actually happening In reality, right? From the beginning, athletes have to report NIL deals through this, you know, NIL go is what it's called. If agreements are six hundred dollars or more, which usually they're gonna probably be six hundred dollars or more, they also have to be reported within five business days of the agreement of payment terms, right? So Then it has to go through, once it's submitted to NIL Go, it has to go through this whole evaluation process. And so basically how that works is there's three different factors that the NIL GO and the whole committee looks at. There's the associated status, the range of compensation, and valid business purpose. So you can kind of guess what these are kind of talking about, right? But so the associated status, that's basically looking at the relationship between The deal sponsor, like who's making that deal, and the institution. So that's more concerned with like individuals that are actually maybe linked to the university in some way for like recruitment purposes. You gotta like watch out for that, right? because there's all these kind of like legal fine lines, I'll say. And then there's also the range of compensation. And so that's pretty simple. The compensation That is paid out to the athlete has to be proportionate to like a similarly similarly situated individual, right? So they can't like make speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: sense. They can't like overly me like majorly overpay a a player. Okay. So and there's like a whole algorithm to it. It's based on athletic performance. It's based on social media presence, the local market, and then basically that athlete's market of reach for a program, right? So And that isn't reviewed until fifty thousand dollars, which is interesting. So anything like below fifty thousand dollars, they will not look at the range of compensation part of it, which kind of makes sense. Like pretty big not cool. If I got offered fifty thousand dollars speaker-0: If I got offered five thousand dollars for something, I would do it. You want me to wear a hot dog costume? speaker-1: Sure. Hundred percent. I'm down. I'm down. speaker-0: Like Brooke Davis with the crab in Winter Hill. speaker-1: Exactly. Exactly. and then the last one is which is kind of the funny one, is the valid business purpose. So basically Yeah. So basically the deal is made with the purpose of using the student athlete's name, image, and likeness. And it has to be for a valid business purpose, which would basically be like a promotion of goods, promotion of services that are being provided to the general public. for a profit. Okay. Basically, for third parties, you cannot pay athletes for their athletic performance. You have to it has to be for a business purpose, for marketing or advertisement, things like that. Has to have a genuine market value. However, this is for third party NIL deals. This is not the university revenue sharing. with individual athletes that's coming straight from the university revenue allocated to the athlete, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's when it gets a little bit blurry. speaker-0: A little bit murky. And that's why you're supposed to like, that's why you're supposed to check the associated status. Right? Because I feel like this is where it could really get murky of like, well, here's this whatever person or this company that is paying them. by the way, they have this like really close tie with the institution. Right. I don't know. What's the general business purpose? speaker-1: yeah, exactly. No, so basically how it works is if you go through the university shared revenue kind of allocation route, student athletes can actually get bonuses for certain levels of performance. speaker-0: Bonuses. Mm-hmm. I didn't know. speaker-1: Like I said, like they'll just get paid more from the revenue share, right? Like, like I said earlier, higher performers are gonna get paid more. It's it's it's almost like, you know, how we had full scholarships versus walk-ons. You know what I mean? But this is just a much more substantial amount of money, and there's a lot more that goes into it. But basically, this is pay for play when it is the university revenue share. It you can't do you cannot do that for third party NIL deals and like collectives and things like that. You you that's like a no no. I this seems speaker-0: It's a job. It's a job. You're literally getting paid to play a sport. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: And look, like I g like I get it. Like, yes, we wanna like if we're making the university so much money, like you do feel like you're entitled to share that. But like again, at the same time, like the way that we were getting paid was that we were getting a free education. Right. That's how you were getting paid. And stipend speaker-1: Open for the Yeah. speaker-0: for room and board. Like and our purpose was to get an education and then we could do whatever the heck we wanted afterwards, whether it be Go pro, go be in some commercials if you can get in them. Mm-hmm. Like, I think social media has changed the game so much. And like you said earlier, it's it's not making college sports feel like college sports. It's it's not like I don't know. Anyways. speaker-1: It's losing its essence. speaker-0: And there's a lot of pressure that comes with that as well. Of like you're paying like you feel like you have to perform, right? Especially if there's bonuses. Like again, I don't know how these things are structured, but speaker-1: Right. Yeah. If I were making hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'd be freaking out a little bit, I think. Yeah. That's a lot of responsibility. So I think that's a whole nother aspect. Not just, you know, the social media, the appearing appearances that you might have to make, the different jobs you have to do outside of, you know, playing your actual sport with all of these NIL deals. It's like Okay, I've got people that are backing me and expecting certain things out of me, and I think dealing with that expectation is a whole nother ball game that people are gonna have to get used to, you know. We'll see how that goes. I mean on speaker-0: I'm getting like depressed like thinking about it. speaker-1: I mean, on more of like a positive side of it, I've seen a lot of NIL deals with female athletes and female sports, which I think it's pretty cool. considering how how long it took women's sports to even, you know, be on the map. But I I've heard firsthand there's women soccer players, or at least one that I know of, that's making four hundred K a year. speaker-0: making like so much more money than I am. speaker-1: But speaker-0: That's I mean, that's that's crazy. Like speaker-1: Yeah. But I I think the appeal of a female athlete is there's gonna be a lot of social media engagement with with females. There's gonna be better content quality. Sorry, no shade to the guys, but n the content's gonna be better most likely. Most likely from an influencer perspective. You know, guys have the ability to do that, but I think it's more common to see speaker-0: It's more likely for girls, yeah, for women to do a better job more speaker-1: A more effort into speaker-0: effort into it. Yeah. Right. And again, like yeah, like you said, kind of they're they become almost like influencers, right? And I think as more females become like stars on social media, it also kind of draws more people to to actually watch the s watch the the sport, right? So like again, think of Livy Dunn or like Caitlin Clark. Yeah, right. They were kind of around when all this stuff started happening and now they're like mega, mega, mega stars. I mean, obviously Caitlin Clark's still playing basketball. I think Livy Dunn is on like Baywatch now. So like speaker-1: She went a whole nother route that's working very well for her. speaker-0: Yeah. But like again, like there's even I think there's even like now tennis players who have like almost a million followers on Instagram and they're getting deals and it's it's really cool to see kind of that spotlight and as more and more like deals and advertising and marketing opportunities come through for them. that is the pot is positive side, you are correct. speaker-1: Yeah. And my only worry is like, okay, some of these people are eighteen, nineteen year olds that we're talking about. How are we handling our money well? Do we have financial advisors on hand? speaker-0: I don't think so, Peyton, because I remember so NIL became a thing our senior year, right? Like right before our senior year started. And then I stayed for one more year. So I had like two years with NIL. I never did anything NIL related because the one time I tried, I was told I couldn't. Whatever. They were still figuring that whole thing out. Yeah. I speaker-1: Pennies on it. speaker-0: remember yeah. I remember coming back and coming back to visit a few of the girls, I don't know, a year or two maybe after I finished my master's year and talking to some of like our other friends. And there's like there were guys on the football team that literally were buying like Lamborghinis with like their NIL money. speaker-1: What are we doing? speaker-0: Surely I'm I'm glad that you got a car that you like or whatever. But like surely there is like a better and there was like one guy who like totaled his. I remember hearing this from someone. He totaled his so he bought a new one. Like there's a better way to like speaker-1: Like investing and like there's so many better ways. Saving. Yeah. speaker-0: I and at that point too, again, it was still kind of like in the beginning. So now they're making even more money. But back then, like it was probably less money. Yeah. I don't know. So yeah, the like offering some sort of like financial course to take for these eighteen, nineteen, twenty year olds handling their money, like even offering like doing a partnership with I don't know, like a local bank or firm, like offering some fine like two, three financial advising. speaker-1: Right. And I I think schools have actually started bringing that in a little bit because the NIL money is getting so big. So I I think they are transitioning into having athletes, you know, you kind of do like your freshman orientation and then you can have your, you know, NIL financial advisement meetings and courses to take. You know, you always have to do those like alcohol and, you know, safe practices at school. speaker-0: School speaker-1: Little speaker-0: bullying, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: Just put it in that, honestly. Like and then if if if you know you're gonna get like a pretty big deal or, you know, fifty thousand dollar at least deal, set up a meeting with one of the financial advisors. I mean, that's probably the smartest thing that you could do at that point is learning how to deal with your money that you're getting. Right. speaker-0: I almost like wish it would be a requirement. This is probably not feasible whatsoever, but like a requirement that any NIL money that an athlete makes like has to be put in some sort of like trust or like fund that you can only access X amount of it. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: But then that like gets sticky too, because like you're in different situations where like sometimes people want to help their family out or never know what's going on. speaker-1: Right. And that's that's why I think NIL is very positive. There are a lot of people that depend on their sport to financially help their families, right? And and a lot of people have to go pro for that hap for that to happen, but now they can do it in college. So I think that is definitely a positive to it. I think one question I have is how in the world is this five for five impacting scholarships and that funding? Because obviously before if you were getting a full ride, it was four years. Now they've added in a whole nother year. So speaker-0: So like first thing that pops into my head is like either they're allocating more money and towards scholarships and they're already like planning for that in like their financial whatever planning before the year, before the three years or whatever. Or is this gonna take away opportunities from other kids? Like 'cause speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: say okay, say our tennis roster had Ten girls on it. Now again, they change the way like scholarships work, but you can have ten full scholarships. So is that five years per ten? So like fifty scholarship speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: years versus forty? Or like do you do you do you understand what I'm trying to say? Or is it like speaker-1: I know what you're trying to say. Yeah. I I don't know the answer to that. And I think that would be a very good financial question for the programs themselves and if they can actually keep that funding going, because that seems like a lot more each year. But my thing is with all of these changes, like again, like you said, there you can now have 10 full scholarships. for like exam for example, on a tennis team. Whereas before we had like eight full rides and then you'd have two walk-ons, right? Or however many walk ons. speaker-0: Or you could have that was a thing. You could have fourteen walk-offs. speaker-1: You can have 14 walk ons. Now it's capped. Yeah, now it's capped at 10. So universities can fund all 10 of those scholarships if they wanted to, technically. If they wanted to be like a tennis school and be like, we're gonna be the best in tennis, we're gonna put all of this money into these ten full scholarships, right? On the men's and the women's side. However, if they say, no, we're gonna be a soccer school or we're gonna be a football school, they don't necessarily have to fund all 10 of those scholarships. And that's where I think it gets a little bit tricky and I think it's gonna be very different school for school, right? speaker-0: And also between the different divisions too. speaker-1: the divisions are gonna be speaker-0: One, D two, D three, Juco, like speaker-1: Yes. Yes. So for example, I think for the Power Four conferences, which are now the SEC, Big Ten, Big Twelve, ACC, they have basically decided like they're gonna use the football and basketball revenue, probably mostly football, to be honest, to fund all of those expanded c scholarships that are happening in the Olympic sports. Or or a wealthy alumni or all the wealthy alumni come in. And they fully fund scholarship positions, right? So those are kind of two different ways that those can work. Smaller conferences, though, like I don't know, Sunbelt, Mac, they don't have massive TV contracts like the Power Four, right? And so they've almost implemented like a tier system, which is kind of crazy. So basically how it works is like, okay, the tier one sports are football, basketball, potentially baseball, and they're gonna get the max funding. Whereas the tier two sports, tennis, probably golf, they're gonna cap those scholarships like they were capped before. Like for example, with tennis, men's tennis, it was four and a half scholarships. Mm-hmm. And so I think maybe at the bigger conferences, this isn't gonna impact Olympic sports as much because they're still gonna be getting that shared funding from the football and the basketball. But I think for smaller conferences and Olympic sports, this is gonna be a really big problem. speaker-0: Yeah. Like are they even gonna exist in the future? I that's like a question that keeps that everyone keeps talking about of like five years from now, whatever, eight years from now. Is it just gonna end up being basketball and football? But maybe soccer. speaker-1: I don't know, like do football and basketball just do their own thing? Separate. But then if you do that, we don't the Olympic sports aren't getting that revenue from in the big conferences. So you need them. You kinda need those sports, right? Yep. Unless you come up with a completely different system of like NCAA and then the football and the basketball and it's it would be a whole yeah. speaker-0: It makes it so convoluted too. Yeah. And again, I think it just shows that like anytime you bring money into it, like it makes it complicates things so much. And like people will start eventually, even though they want to they say they want to like keep all the like Olympic sports and tennis sports and all this or and tennis and all that stuff. at eventually as a busin as a business minded, you know, organization, they will start putting more of their resources towards what actually generates value for them. And that's gonna be football and basketball. And it's I I do fear for the future of those sports. speaker-1: Yeah, especially smaller conferences, D three schools, I think they're gonna struggle for sure. I know we were talking about media at the beginning too, and I and you know, with all these marketing deals and with individuals, you also see schools bringing in different advertisements and and and funding from that. But I don't know if you saw this. I actually just saw it this morning and I did some research on it as well. There was a girl that was doing a video on TCU volleyball, and they were playing, I think, Vanderbilt last weekend for their like home opener at TCU. And there was a roe R O dot com ad on the court and like on and I saw it myself. I saw it on TCU volleyballs media. And roe.com, I'll just tell you what their motto is, okay? Mm-hmm. Weight loss. Better sex, fuller hair. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: Right. Because that makes a lot of sense. It's speaker-0: the GLP1. speaker-1: it like connects you like to the GLP ones. Yeah. like eat it makes it like more streamlined online to get them. I just I feel like ethically we've just we've taken a turn. We've we've we've truly gone downhill. Like why don't we have a maybe ad for a company that promotes like mental health telehealth instead of like GLP one telehealth? Especially for like women's college sport. Like why why is that the ad we're choosing? Mm-hmm. I don't know. speaker-0: Again, it's all about the money. Like speaker-1: It is. It is. But at some point, can someone come in and be like, hey, maybe we should do something that I don't know, pertains to like women's sports or just college sports in general and not weight loss drugs? speaker-0: Yeah, maybe the NCAA needs to make like some sort of regulations about what or who can be a sponsor. speaker-1: You would think that's a thing already. You would think that's a thing already. I don't know. I d I don't know. I don't know. But on the more fun side, I also saw Nike was sponsoring sororities now. speaker-0: I saw that. I did see that. I love watching all those sorority videos. speaker-1: It's actually addicting to watch. It's addicting. I mean, they they they've really broadened into another market now. Like they truly have. and I think they're really hitting the social media. But I mean, at the same time with all of these NIL deals and stuff, like we're still at a point where college tennis players still can't take their prize money. So there's that, which is like a huge paradox. But they could have an NIL deal that gives them like fifty K. I don't Dude, I actually don't get it. Like I I actually don't know what's happening. I don't know what's going on. How how how do you not let people take hard earned money versus like an NIL deal? speaker-0: Yep. And like again, it would just bring you so much good attention to your school too, of like you have someone winning around at the US Open and then they go back to college. Like, yeah, what what is the problem with that? Like I I don't know. And I think I think the issue is that like at no one else knows too, and people are just making this stuff up on the fly, honestly. And like I don't know. Yeah, but I don't know, man. What speaker-1: What's this next generation of sports motivation? Money? speaker-0: Money, money, money, money. speaker-1: Money. Like for me, it was like I want to play for a school and I want to have an education and that be paid for. Anyways, all and all with all that being said, I mean we'll see what happens this year. I think these the 2026-2027 season is gonna be pretty interesting with all of these all of these new rules. And I'm curious to see what the NCAA actually comes up with throughout this year to be ready for next year potentially. So we'll see what happens. But I'm also really excited for next week's episode because we are talking with Sophie Chang, who is actually WTA tour player. And we also get into how different the landscape of college tennis is now. And how, you know, we've kind of t alluded to this a little bit, but how now people feel like they can actually make the choice of either going pro or going to college without it feeling like all or nothing, basically. Like they can't, yep, they can't do one versus the other, but now they can. and we'll get into her time on the tour a little bit, and also her play this summer with the Intense League, which is a really cool new way of playing and watching tennis. So I'm excited to get into that too. speaker-0: Me too. Yeah. I'm excited for this season. It's gonna be full of a lot of really fun stuff. And I'm also excited for college football kicking off. So with that, speaker-1: Yeah. Let's go. speaker-0: hope everyone enjoys their falls and go eat. speaker-1: Yeah, go teeks. Also, if you guys have any questions about, you know, NIL or the five for five, we'd love to have any conversations around it because we're also still learning as we go, because this is a crazy process. So feel free to reach out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, any social media, and we can kind of start a conversation about it. But thanks guys so much for listening or watching and we will see you next week. Thank you all for listening. Give us a follow here on Apple or Spotify. Or you can also watch our podcast videos on YouTube to keep up with us every Tuesday. You can also find us on our Instagram or TikTok at Yips and Giggles to see what we're up to. See you next week. And of course, in the meantime, don't take life too seriously and have a laugh on us.