Latest / Wake Up with Miya / Episode 210. How Hawaiʻi Came Close to Losing ʻAwa Forever | Morgan Smith

Transcript

Episode 210. How Hawaiʻi Came Close to Losing ʻAwa Forever | Morgan Smith · Wake Up with Miya

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I find it fascinating if you look at Captain Cook, right?
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Of course, famous, famous in Hawaii.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't like him here, yeah.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: You can't be rude to people and try to steal
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: their people and, you know. Yeah, try to take their land. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So I can't remember the name of the guy who
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: he brought around who was actually documenting the plants that
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: he found. Yeah, I forget his name too. But he
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: was the first Westerner to actually document what Cabo was.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: And how they described it was grog. So when you
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: think of, you know, a European guy looking at a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: bunch of Polynesians drinking something and getting relaxed and kind
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: of calm and hanging out with each other. the closest
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: thing they could think about was something like beer. Is
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: that what grog means?
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know what grog means.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, like, if you go look at, like,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: some Pirates of the Caribbean or something like that, or
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: you want some grog. Maybe, yeah. And in Fiji, actually, today,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: they still call it grog. Everyone calls it grog there.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: For centuries, Ava, also known as Kava, has played an
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: important role throughout the Pacific Islands. particularly in Hawaii, where
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: it was traditionally used in ceremonies by the Ali'is and Kahunas.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: While many people know it as a modern beverage, its
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: cultural history runs much deeper. In today's interview, I'm joined
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: by Morgan Smith from Calm with Kava, founder of Pu'iwa
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Hawaiian Farms and the CEO of Monsoon Beverages. We discuss
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the history of Awa in Hawaii, its cultural and ceremonial significance,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: how it was traditionally used and the work Morgan is
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: doing to help bring greater awareness to this important part
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: of Hawaiian culture. But before we get started, if you
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: enjoy these conversations, please follow the show, subscribe and hit
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: that notification bell so you never miss a future episode.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: And if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, I'd really
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: appreciate it if you could leave a positive review. It
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: really does help the show. and helps others discover these
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: amazing conversations. Now, let's get into today's conversation. Enjoy the show. Aloha, Morgan,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: and welcome to the show. I've been looking forward to
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: this conversation because kava, or ava as it's known in Hawaii,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: is something that's been around for centuries, yet most people
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: know very little about its history, traditions, and cultural significance.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Before we get into the history of ava, Can you
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about yourself and how a
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: mainland guy ends up becoming involved with Ava in Hawaii
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and eventually founding Monsoon Beverages and Pu'iwa Hawaiian Farms?
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, absolutely. Aloha to you as well. Yeah, about
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: 12 years ago, I was a stressed out guy. I
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: was in the software world. I was building software in
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the financial sector. It was very stressful times. And I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: had just had my second child with my beautiful wife.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: And it was just a rough time, you know, as
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a young father, just dealing with life. I just needed
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to find something that was going to help me relax,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: but still allow me to live a good life, be
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a good role model, be a good father, be a
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: good husband, all those things. I went to my doctor
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and I asked for some help. And I was prescribed
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: an SSRI and a benzodiazepine. And they were Lexapro and Klonopin.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: And she said that while the Lexpro will take a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: little while to kick in, take the Klonopin as a
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: way to relax if you have, like, a panic attack.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: And a couple days later, sure enough, I was at
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the office, and I felt like an elephant was sitting
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: on my chest, and I took a Klonopin. And I
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: don't remember what I did the rest of the day.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: It was, you know, I apparently was driving coworkers to lunch,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: and I was making decisions that I probably shouldn't have made. Luckily, nothing, like,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: super bad, but To the point where when I kind
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of came to later that night, I thought, I can't
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: do that ever again. And it's not something that you
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: can play with. You know, heaven forbid, I have to
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: take one of my kids to the hospital. It's just
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: not something that worked with my life at that point.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And still doesn't, quite frankly. And so I looked and
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I tried probably 10, 15 different things to try to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: find something that would help me deal with the stresses
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: of the day, but not turn me into a zombie.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And kava was the one thing I landed on where
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I could really feel the effects mentally and physically. And
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: it also didn't turn me into an addict, right? My
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: family comes from a different set of islands in Britain. And,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you know, alcoholism is rampant with my ancestors. And alcohol
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: has not done a whole lot of good for the world.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, Kava is the thing that I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: found that is something that can really, you know, actually
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: truly help. And so, you know, after I found Kava,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I became friends with a guy named Mike Munsell. And
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Mike Munsell started a company called Come With Kava back
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: in 2010. He had went to Fiji on a honeymoon
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: with his wife, Tiffany, and he fell in love with Kava.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: And he started this little company and he became my
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: kava guru. He was like my teacher. Anytime I had
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: a question about kava, he knew the answers. And he
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: had planted a small patch of ava on the big island,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: about 20 minutes north of Hilo. And he had 200
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: plants there and he passed away in 2020. And, you know,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: he was the guy who I always went to for
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: questions and answers. And he always knew everything somehow. And
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: so it was a big, huge, huge loss when he passed. Um,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: but his plants, they, they sat there for about a
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: year and a half until I ended up purchasing that
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: land and then, um, some additional land afterwards because I
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: wanted to grow Ava. Um, and so we took his plants,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: which it ended up being about 90 plants. And, uh,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: today we have about 15,000 plants. Uh, and so I
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: really took You know, his vision of making sure that
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of Ava throughout the islands. And
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I'm continuing that. And, you know, that's really my kuleana
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: at this point is making sure that Ava is propagated forever.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I think that, you know, like you mentioned, it's not
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: very well known. And I think that it needs to
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: be much more well known and consumed a lot more
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and grown a lot more. Yeah. Pu'iva.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Pu'iva. Who named that farm? Did you?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I did not. My dad did, actually. You did. Yeah.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So he saw a sign at the volcano park where
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: it said Pueva on the sign. It said, amazing, wonderful, great.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of people know about Pueva Point.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: A little bit different of a story there, right, on Oahu.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so Pueva. Puiva meaning great, wonderful, amazing. Um, that's,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: that's what the farm is. It really is something that
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I think is, is kind of transforming, um, you know,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: that area used to be old, old sugar cane fields,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of sweet potatoes. Um, you know, people kind of,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: to be frank, ruin that land for many years, but
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: now we're planting, um, all sorts of endemic plants there.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: A lot of trees are going back on there. It was,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: it was basically just flat fields, uh, No trees at all.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And now we have tons and tons of, you know,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: plants back on that land with bugs again. Turns out
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: bugs are pretty important for farming, you know, so we're
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: kind of regenerating that entire area. And it's exciting to see.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And it's amazing and wonderful.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: That is amazing. How far does the history of Ava
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: go back in Hawaii?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: From the very beginning, it was a canoe plant. We
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: know through stories that Ava came from Samoa and Tahiti.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And indeed, if you look at varieties of Ava, there's
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: 13 distinct Hawaiian varieties of Ava. And those 13, some
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of them came from Samoa and Tahiti. I was just
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: recently in Tonga, and they have one there called Fulu Fulu.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: And it looks almost identical to one in Hawaii called Nene.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: It was a plant that came from before, most likely.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: We know through DNA that at one point, Hawaii had
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: 33 types of Hawaiian Ava. But over the years, over
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the 1,000 years that Hawaii has been populated, we've lost
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: about 20 of them. Now, we could recover them eventually
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: over time because Ava morphs. When you plant the stems
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: of the plant, it encounters different soil or different weather patterns.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't get watered as much. It changes it.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: It puts different stresses on the plant, and then it morphs.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: And so we could very well have, again, 30 varieties
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: or 33 varieties of Hawaiian Ava in the future, but
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: for right now, we have those 13.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Wow. When they morph, do they taste different?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I think that it's much more obvious when it comes
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: from different island cheese. So kava first started out in Vanuatu.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: It's very peppery and very piney and very bitter. But
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: as a canoe plant, you know, if you and I
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: were in a family and we were going to go
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: sail off to the next island, we wanted to take
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the very best with us, right? And so I think
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: eventually what happened is farmers just saw what either grew
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: well or they found plants that affected them in better
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: ways than others. or maybe they prefer the flavor of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: one versus the other. And so eventually, Hawaii is kind
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: of the last, it's not kind of, it is the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: last spot where Ava stopped in the canoe sort of journey.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: And so in many ways, you could consider Hawaiian varieties
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: of kava the best because they were actually picked over 3,000
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: years to be the best. Wow.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I've heard both the Ali'is and the kahuna's use of
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a can you explain how it was used and why
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: it was so important to them and for those who
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: don't know ali is the chiefs in the hawaiian island
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and kahunas were like the um the medicine man basically
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: so yeah.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So i i want to be very careful here because
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: i'm not hawaiian right and i certainly don't want to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: speak for hawaiians i'm not that guy right um i
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: can tell you though that uh you know there are
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: um there are certainly things that have been lost over
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the years, right? We know that there are many different
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: sort of celebrations and rituals that we kind of know
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: bits and pieces of. To give you an example of
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: that is that, you know, we know some traditional names
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: of Ava because of these old stories, but we don't
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: necessarily know all of them, right? And so some varieties
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of Ava that we have today are named after locations
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: rather than the actual name of the Ava itself. which
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: is indicative of us losing some of that history, right?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: And so I think that, you know, Ava throughout the
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Polynesian Islands in general has always been something where when
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: people have differences of opinion, when people need to get
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: together and talk about things and, you know, whether it's
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: some sort of a trade deal or maybe a peace
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: deal with a neighboring village or, you you know, you
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: want to, you know, bring something to honor a chief
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: or an ali'i, you would bring them ava and you
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: would drink with them. And so there's a lot of
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: different types of rituals and celebrations. I don't necessarily know
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: that I'm the right guy to talk about exactly what
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: they do there. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, ava was viewed primarily as, I guess, like you said,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: a ceremonial drink, a medicine.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And sometimes even, like you said, like a peace thing. Absolutely.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And it was also consumed recreationally, right? Like there's many stories.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Samuel K. Kahuna, he wrote about how, you know, it
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: was the prized crop of the laborer, right? These folks
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: were out there in the fields or who knows, maybe
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: they're out there in the canoes fishing, a rough day
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of work. And families would sit together and share a
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: shell of ava together and then have dinner, right? So
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it wasn't always just ceremonious. It was also just being
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: with your family and enjoying a shell and getting your
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: muscles to kind of melt a little bit after a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: hard day of work.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to ask you about what role
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: did the ava play in the Hawaiian culture before Western contact? Like,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's changed maybe now, or it's actually a
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: lot of it's lost, unfortunately.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is lost. You know, I find it fascinating
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: if you look at Captain Cook, right? Of course, famous.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Famous in Hawaii.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't like him here, yeah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Turns out you can't be rude to people and try
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to steal their people and, you know. Yeah, try to
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: take the land. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so... I can't remember
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the name of the guy who he brought around who
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: was actually documenting the plants that he found. Oh, yeah.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I forget his name, too. Yeah, but he was the
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: first Westerner to actually document what Abba was. And how
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they described it was grog. So when you think of,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: you know, a European guy looking at a bunch of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Polynesians drinking something and getting relaxed and kind of calm
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and hanging out with each other, the closest thing they
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: could think about was something like beer. Is that what
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: grog means? I didn't know.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what grog means.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, like, if you could look at, like,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: some Pirates of the Caribbean or something like that, they'd
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, you want some grog? Maybe, you know.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And in Fiji, actually, today, they still call it grog.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Everyone calls it grog there, which I think is, to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: be fair, or to be, to be, real like i
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: think it's a little disrespectful to the plant personally because
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: it's better than grog it's not really like i don't
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: know i think it's i think it's dangerous to to
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: you know kind of equate them together because you cannot
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: compare ava with alcohol it's just it's a different animal
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: different feelings different flavor everything.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: So absolutely do we know any specific traditions or protocol
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: that surrounded the preparation and drinking of the ava.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are, throughout Polynesia in general, there are
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: many different ways. And I'm going to be very generic
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: here because I feel like every, it wasn't even just
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: every island, right? It was like every single chief was like, hey,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: this is how we're going to be doing things. I've
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: read countless stories of different protocols for how it should
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: be prepared for You know, I can tell you one
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: interesting fact is that nowadays you'll see Ava is largely
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: consumed fresh in Hawaii, right, when it's grown in Hawaii.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: But if you get it from other islands, it's always dried.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And people only started drying Ava in the last 200 years.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Fiji specifically, I think, is very interesting in that regard
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: because It was only until about the 1750s, I believe,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: when they started to dry it. And so dried Aba
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that you see today, you'll see it in a lot
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: of high school graduations or just different sort of celebrations
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: throughout Hawaii. You'll see Aba being imported in from other
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: countries and it's dried. Well, that is really historically not accurate.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It is something that is consumed fresh. They would generally use...
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: fresh Ava. Oftentimes you'll hear aunties talk about, oh, I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: know about Ava. My uncle used to make me chew
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: it when I was a kid. And they would have
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: kids chew the roots in the stump and they would
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: spit it out. And the enzymes in the saliva would
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: help to digest or break down the plant so that
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: it was easier to feel the effects. And of course,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you needed something to break it up. So I guess
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: you could use a rock to smash it up. But
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: many cultures, Hawaii included, Vanuatu, they did it, Fiji, they
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: did it, Tonga, they did it. They would chew that
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: up and then spit it out. And then they would
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: use hibiscus fibers to filter out the kind of woody
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: particulates of it and add a little bit of water.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Or in some cases, King Kamehameha, he actually had a
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: dedicated guy to make him ava. And there's stories of
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: him asking for sugarcane juice and turmeric to flavor his ava.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: So there's all sorts of different kind of things throughout
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the islands and all sorts of different protocols.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I think that we need to bring on
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: a Hawaiian expert here to talk about specific Hawaiian protocols.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I've tried the... Tongan. I tried a few
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: of them, but Tongan one is my favorite. Do you
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: have a favorite?
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I would get in a lot of trouble if
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I had to pick. So I import kava from Vanuatu, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: And I, you know, I think, here's what I'll tell you.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I think that it's funny that you think Tongan is
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: your favorite because Tongans, Tongan kavas are very similar to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Hawaiian avas, right? Their flavor is much less pronounced. It's
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: much less bitter. It has a creamier profile and it
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: also is much more euphoric. So it's less sedative than
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: other kavas. And so I would say that a Tongan kava,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: which by the way, if people didn't know, kava is
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a Tongan word and it means bitter and Tongan. But
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I would say that Tongan kavas are the best for
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: social situations and Hawaiian abas are also very good for
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: social situations. If you want something that's a little bit
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: more sedative, more like I want to wind down at
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the end of the night and I want to go
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to sleep, something from Vanuatu is really good for that.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Or Fiji is kind of a good in-between. So it
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: kind of depends on the situation. Yeah.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I've never tried the Hawaiian one. I've never
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: tried fresh, so I don't know what that would taste like.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: We're going to change that.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I do have this, the Tongan one. I love it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I love that. I really do. I do. I love
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: it so much. And it gives you that tingling, almost
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: numbing in your mouth if you hold it in. Now,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: my husband don't like it. He doesn't like that flavor
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: at all, but I do. I love it. And I
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: do love your, the guava that you have. Oh my God,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: that is so good. That is, that's like, that's my
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: number one favorite. I don't, obviously that's not the traditional whatever,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: but it's so good. I love it. I can just
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: drink it all day.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, good. I'm glad to hear it. I think that,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: so we actually just barely started. So kava takes at
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: least three years to grow pretty much. Some people will
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: go two years, maybe three years. And for some of
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: our oldest crops, they're about three and a half years,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: four years old at this point. And so we literally
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: just last week harvested our first plants so that we
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: could start to offer Ava as a product. And I'm
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: going to send you some fresh Ava. Wow. And it's amazing.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It tastes like... So actually, before I say that, what
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: do you think... That Tongan kava you have right there,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: what does that taste like to you?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: To me, this one, it tastes earthy, but smooth, very smooth.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Like I can drink it. It doesn't, it's not bitter
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: to me. I can drink it. In fact, I've let
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: it sit in my cup with that mesh in my cup.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: in the fridge overnight and I drank it in the morning.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: So it's, it's like much more potent than when I
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: just rub it in and, you know, right away and
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: then drink it. I let it sit overnight and then
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I drink it. So, yeah. So it's, it's smooth to me. Earthy,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: but smooth. I'm okay with it.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Earthy, but smooth. Yeah. I always tell people that it's
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: kind of tastes like medicinal mud water. Yeah.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: My husband will say tastes like mud. I'm like, you're crazy. Yeah.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I struggle to say mud water myself sometimes
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: because I also feel like that kind of cheapens it
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't taste like mud. What it tastes like
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: is like it actually the scientific name for Ava is
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Piper Mathisica and Piper is from the pepper family. So
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: when you think of Ava and you're drinking it, it
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: is kind of like there's some spicy sort of like
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: almost like clovey or nutmeggy or cinnamon kind of flavors.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: That's what makes it numb. Numbing in your mouth is that.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And actually, to go even further, the numbing, it
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: comes from a kava lactone, which is one of the
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: kind of active ingredients of kava. And it's called kavain.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: When you go to the dentist and you have to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: get a filling and they inject your mouth, they're giving
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: you Novocaine. Well, kavain has similar effects. It will numb
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: your mouth. It'll numb your tongue and your throat. It does.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And actually, again, old Hawaiian stories say There's a variety
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, Nene. Nene is, it was
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: specifically used for teething children in Hawaii. So they would
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: rub it on the gums of the child and it
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: would help them, you know, that would relieve their, their issues.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: But so going back to your, to the whole flavor thing,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: the difference between the dried product that you have and
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the fresh Ava is fresh Ava tastes more like cucumber
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: water than And more sort of vegetal. It is not
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: anywhere near as bitter.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: It is so much better. And it's not even just
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the flavor that's better. The effects are better. You feel
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the effects faster. And it's also less grating on your stomach.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: It's just a much better experience. I would bet, I'd
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: bet you $ 20 that your husband would drink the fresh stuff.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to send you a pound. Oh, yay.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And how would I prepare that? Because it's fresh. Is
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: it already grated? Do I need to do something different
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: or same idea?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: So it's already ground. It's going to be frozen. So
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: when you get it, it's going to be a frozen
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: kind of puck. You're going to want to thaw it
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: for a couple of minutes. And then my preferred way
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: is to put it into a blender with some water
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: and let it really get kind of pulverized. But it's
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: super easy to just, if you don't have a blender,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: it's not a problem. You can just put it into
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a regular strainer bag and massage it in the bag
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: in your bowl of water like you normally would with kava.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Same process. But the blender method, it does like the
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: University of Hawaii, there's a professor there, Skip Bittenbender. He's
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: like one of the original gangsters in the Hawaiian ava world.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: for the past like 30, 40 years, along with he
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: and Ed Johnston on the Big Island. He's like my,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: he's my mentor. But those guys and JD Baker and
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: all these guys, they came up with a really great
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: way to get the most cobalactones out of the plant.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And that's using a blender. So University of Hawaii came
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: up with a whole like process for going like, if
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you wanna get the most out of it, you put
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: in the blender for like five minutes And then you
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: strain it and you'll get a really, really strong resulting drink.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: And how much do you need to put in for
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: a cup? Let's say if you're sharing like two cups,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: how much do you use?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: So whenever I make it fresh, I generally make a
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: big amount. So I'll normally do a gallon of water
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: to a pound. Okay. Fresh of a. So that'll last
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you a little while. But, you know, you can break
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: it down, right? You don't do it. Half the pound,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you use half a gallon. Okay.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: How long does it stay good in the fridge for?
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I would say kind of like general food rules. Okay. Three,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: four days, something like that.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Got it. Okay.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: But you can use half of it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And keep it. Okay.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: What's the biggest difference between the Hawaiian Ava? I know
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the fresh versus powder, but do you use more? Brute
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: when it's dried because you have to ground it up
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and it becomes powder versus the fresh?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: That's a great question. That's like a really, really good
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: question because when you take fresh kava or ava and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you dry it, you actually only get about 10% of
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: a yield. So if you start with 10 pounds of
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: fresh ava and you dry it, you're going to get
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: one pound of dried ava. So, uh, you actually do
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: use very different amounts. I would normally use between, uh,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: like 60 and 80 grams of dried powder, uh, in
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: maybe an evening, right? You have maybe a quart of water, right? Uh,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: for 60 to 80 grams. And I don't know, I'm
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: going to look up right now, but that would be,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: cause I think if you do four ounces of, um,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: of the, uh, Of the fresh stuff, four ounces, two grams.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: What is that? 113 grams. So you use almost double
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the amount of fresh than you would dried. Wow.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Just because it's a, you know, you lose so much
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: when you dry.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So do you ever have fresh Tongan?
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I've never had it. In fact, I was just in Tonga, right?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And I asked the supplier there. He lives on an
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: island called Eowa. And I asked him, I said, have
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you ever had fresh kava? And he goes, he's like,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I've had it like twice. But it's just not something
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: that they do. Or for the Gien, I was just
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: in Fiji a couple weeks back. And I asked them
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the same thing. They said, no, no one drinks fresh kava.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: That's weird. Really? Yeah, yeah. In Vanuatu, they still drink
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: it fresh, though. Yeah, in Vanuatu, they still drink it
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: fresh all the time. They don't like dry kava. Wow, interesting.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: So for someone who's never tried kava before, what should
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: they expect from the experience?
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that the first thing is that, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: people always want it to be some big, giant experience, right?
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: They're thinking of a pharmaceutical product. or they're thinking of
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: alcohol or marijuana or something. It is not that, right?
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: And it's not that for a reason. It's better than
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: all of those things. It's not going to be a
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: super intense experience. If you drink a lot of it,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it can end up being a bit more intense than
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you might like, but not that much. It's hard to
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: overdo it with kava. And so when you first try it,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: you're going to notice that numbing sensation in your mouth. Personally,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I notice in the back of my head, it starts
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to feel a little bit light. The more you drink it,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: your shoulders sort of kind of slump down a little
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: bit and you can kind of relax a little bit more.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people in the sports world,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: they love kava for after sports activities, right? If you
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: go look at like the rugby teams, the national rugby
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: teams of Fiji or Tonga, you will see those guys
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: drinking kava all day right after this. games or their
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: practices because it helps them really relax. So you'll start
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: to notice your body melt quite a bit. And you'll
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: also notice that things are just not as big of
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: a deal as they once were, right? So You're never
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: going to make a bad decision on Kava. You're never
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: going to, you know, your mind is completely clear. And
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: so you're never going to make any phone calls you
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: don't regret. You're going to remember your night. The next morning,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: you're not going to have a hangover. You know, you're
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: just going to, I think, feel a sense of calm
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and a sense of just well-being. But, you know, don't.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: You know, go into it expecting that you should be
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: listening to what your body is saying.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Well, Morgan, this has been a fascinating conversation.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you taking the time to come on
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: and share your knowledge about kava or ava and the
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: history behind it and the traditions behind it. But for
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: those listening who would like to learn more about your product,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: where can they find you and your kava?
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we have Calm with Kava, which is we
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: import all the kavas from Vanuatu, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa. And
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: then we also have Pu'iwa Farms Hawaii. And so on Instagram,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: we're at Pu'iwa Farms Hawaii or Calm with Kava. We
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: also are calmwithkava.com. And on all of our social media platforms,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I'm the guy doing it all. So if you send
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: us a message, I can respond to you personally. And
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I try to give as much educational content about Ava
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: as possible. So whether it's the history or how different
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: people drink it or different sort of recipes or kind
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of ways to make it, you know, I kind of
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: go into all of that, right? So that's where I
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: would send people. If you want to learn more about it,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I try to be as educational as possible.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: This was fascinating. I really, really enjoyed it. Thank you, Morgan.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate you for having me on. Thank you.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks, guys, for listening, and I'll see you on the
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: next one. A hui hou kakou.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Bye! It's called making her dance. I know you say you're.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Not afraid to die of something. You got nothing to
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: lose but I must. Take down the sweet time. I
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: don't want to cry. What?
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: What? My appreciate when you walk into the room and I.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Can't see straight. There's no one like you.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: The night chase. It's feeling with you. Don't go away
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: from this tonight.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I'm with you.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. I don't usually get starvation. I'm just
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: lost in reality. When I'm not crying.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying it.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Walking around, swimming around, talking with you. I'm trying to remember.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to remember. I was
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: just hanging out on the couch.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I was just hanging out on the couch.