Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 244 - Is It Wrong for Christians to Go to a Gay or Transgender Wedding?

Transcript

Ep. 244 - Is It Wrong for Christians to Go to a Gay or Transgender Wedding? · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I read an interesting thing about President Abraham Lincoln, who was once embroiled with a dispute with a colleague and unable to get his opponent to see the error of his thinking.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Lincoln said hey, let me ask you a question how many legs does a cow have?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Well, a four, of course.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Well now suppose, continue the president.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: What if you call the cows tail a leg?
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Well then, how many legs does a cow have?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Well, five, replied the man.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: See, that's where you're wrong, replied Lincoln.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Calling a cow's tail a leg does not make it a leg.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: That's quite a tail.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: You see the world we live in seems obsessed with calling a cow's tail a leg, for fear of offending the cow, who insists that he has five legs.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Tolerance has become a virtual idol and the number of its worshipers seems to grow daily.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: And faced with so many different claims to what is true or what is the proper way to live one's life, and tolerance has become the only acceptable response.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: A person who believes in transcendent truth is regarded by the world with suspicion and paradoxically intolerant.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: ["If I Could Turn Back Time"].
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: If I could turn back time.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Tony, can you mute my microphone If?
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: I could find a way, I would take back the things that hurt you and you'd stare.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's gonna be the sickest beginning.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Why does it do that?
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: That song's big right now.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Tracy Chapman I think it was in the 80s came out with that song originally.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Oh was it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: I thought it was.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Sher was the original.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: No, I think you're right.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of a different song.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sher, that's right, you know Sher.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: You guys know how old Sher is now 102.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Well, ray would know, because he's Sunny Bono.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I knew that was coming.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I used to look like Sunny Bono, I know.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: He was a good looking guy.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Here's a mirror.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Here's a mirror somewhere, wasn't it?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: A what, who?
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: A mirror.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: He was a politician.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he was a mayor.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: He became a mayor.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Of course he did.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: But you guys know how old Sher is now Take a guess she probably is 78.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: What date?
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: 78.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: 86.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Hey, pretty close.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: 77.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Oh 78, yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I think maybe we'll just give it a year.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Wait, you asked this.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: You don't even know the answer.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Well, I thought it was 78.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I hope she's not listening.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: She'd be hurt.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: She looks amazing.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just saw a picture of her.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: Seriously, she looks like she's 25.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, hmm, yeah, makeup Face lifts, and Is that like bowtie Wigs?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I was watching this guy on YouTube and he breaks down celebrities on the way they look through the years.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: I've seen that of Sher and it's very cruel yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I just saw that one.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's horrible.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You can tell how many surgeries somebody's had, and he's breaking down every single surgery by the year?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: How old is the guy that's doing it?
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: That's the guy that Ray gets very offended when anyone makes fun of older people.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Oh man, because all people are young people and wrinkle skin.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: That's where they are Right.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: That's pretty much true.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: That's definitely you, yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: Because you are a young person.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: So, guys, speaking of turning back time, my question is I wish we could do that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: We could not, we wouldn't know.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: My question to you guys is what would you do in terms of if you could go back and do redo or undo anything?
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: What would it be?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I'll get a real job.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I'll get a real job.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: I can help with that.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Meeting you, meeting me, meeting me, ray, is that an undo or a redo Undo?
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Undo.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: But you know guys, ray and I have pretty much been in an open book.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: You and Mark Oscar, not so much.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Ray was honest about being the kingpin of major apple stealing heists back when he was a kid.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Yes, I used to stay up all night with apples.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I had what was called an eel spear.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: You know what an eel spear, your spear.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I can't say the word spear, spear, spear, spear.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I mean sharp point into eels, eel spear.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And I used to go through the hedge and spear the neighbors apples and pull them back.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: What a wicked man Ray.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And we had orchards that I used to steal from around the neighbor.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: That's a real brand.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: What?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: A terrible person.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I should have been disciplined for it, but my parents never found out.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Can we make up for that discipline?
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I have already.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Just by existence.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Look, I confess to annoying my bus driver, Phil, by daily thanking him.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I wish I could do that.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I think even if you kept your mouth shut, it would have had the same effect.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: I'm surprised, seriously.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: He never, like you know, as the bus was slowing down and I stood up to walk out.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: but the brakes on.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: He's at the door now.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've found him.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Phil rhymes with kill.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: But Mark and Oscar, you guys never like talk about your past.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: We're redeemed why?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Mark, you, he was gonna be a burglar.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was listening to my senior year.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I wore a brand new clothing item every single day at high school that I stole You're kidding.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: No, stop he's, he don't laugh.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: That's terrible Waa waa, I'll cry instead.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Wait, you did.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: You wore a new pair of clothing.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, that you stole no-transcript.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Where'd you not know new outfit, but a new?
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: I knew something new like a shirt, pair, pants.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Where'd you steal it from?
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: JC pennies.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: So where you were boy, no.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: So you just cruise through and we better send a check to JC.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: So you still 700 pair of socks and a penny to JC mark.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: What would you say, ray?
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: He's told 700 pairs of socks, mark terrible.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I was absolutely.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, such were some of you.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I really said, I really started to get into stealing just before I got saved point makes my apple seem not so bad terrible look at Oscar trying to be the nice, perfect little brown angel.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Always the racist statement.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Oscar used to steal Lamborghinis.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I, I don't know where to start.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: I mean, I got, I can rattle it off.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: I got kicked out of three schools one time for giving my own teacher a bloody nose.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: I've been to night in jail.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: I've threw rocks at Ferraris.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: What do you where?
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: do you see?
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: This Is all new.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: How long have we known you?
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: We've never heard this.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Well, did we do this before the podcast?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Did this come up before?
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: In my interview All of this last week.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: We're gonna be talking afterwards, Oscar.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: So easy.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: How many schools are you kicked out of?
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: Uh, I'm surprised you surpassed me two.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Two, wait.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Two for you, two for me three for you.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, three, two and I'll kick out of one.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you've been to 400 schools.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: One two, three, yeah, 14.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: You were kicked out of, oh, the bible college.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I was kicked out of all places he was.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: He's kicked out of all places.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: Dory time with Mark.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: All right friends, hey, hey hey, we got some exciting stuff for those of you watching this video on that special platform that we've talked about before.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: You see a bunch of stuff on the desk.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, look at this glorious, we were showered.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Seriously.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: That box, oscar, it's massive, unless a weighed 50 pounds or more.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: So all of us have our goodies here from dear friends, and I want to read this seriously you guys blew us away, honestly, thank you.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: These are they called themselves our most avid living waters podcast listeners.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: They're from the Moore household.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: We have daily grace, dabney, dobson, delight, dane and Dandel I'm noticing a theme, yeah or the D's.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: They said we just love y'all.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: They sent us this card.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Let me just read a little bit of this.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: They said hello from some of your most avid Podcast listeners in Virginia and happy, happy new year.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: We just wanted to put together a very small token of our appreciation for y'all and the many, countless hours of encouragement, edification, instruction and, of course, some good amusement and laughs here and there.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: You all have really poured into us and many others.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: We truly consider y'all among our very best friends, though We've never met, visiting y'all and the ministry someday is most certainly toward the top of our bucket list someday, lord willing.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: Wow, thank you guys.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so what did I get?
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: A ginormous.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: I've heard of family size.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: This is party size.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Uh, peanut butter.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: You guys know I love peanut butter, I love I love peanut butter chocolate.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: Uh, I got.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Uh, we got a bar here.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Chocolate bar $1,000 bill.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right, comfort, where's your stuff?
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Right, I took it all home last night.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: They gave us, uh, uh, handmade a little porcelain thing of sam, exactly as well as red collar.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: His glasses were exactly right.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I gave it to daniel because he collects them and gave us whole stack of stuff.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: So I called them last night and spent 20 minutes on FaceTime with them.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, you did they got this 13 in the family, wonderful family and they said things that just blew me away.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Number one They've got 25 chickens.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Do they really know I?
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: guess your best friends.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Wait, that's how many you have 24, 25 or soup, and I have it.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: So both of us and this is what I just so love they breed dogs.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, they're really kidding.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let me show you the sort of dogs they breed.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Oh why?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: How do we get them?
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Wow, do they sell them online?
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, they're big dogs.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I said do you have any dogs?
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: And they see you got 26?
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: What?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: kind of dogs is that?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: That's a newfoundland, it's absolutely huge they were going to send me one when Sam passed on, but they figured it would be too heavy on my bike.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Your house can fit in.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: You can ride it like a horse.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Listeners if you want to send as many dogs as you want to Ray comfort.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely love them.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: So we had a ball.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: They gave me little gifts for Lucy.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I saw that one that's great.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: I think it was wonderful.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I've said to them, we've never had such thoughtful gifts.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: That's what I looked at.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: I'm like man, these guys are close listeners because each gift that we got is so unique, to like one or two things we said on the podcast.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: Big time.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: And then we've got bars of soap and a hat.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: And they sent a movie for my grandkids Unbelievable and they put hat and an archer on the back too.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: And those singing lessons.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I need those, I got to say that I got.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: What'd you get, Mark?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I got socks that I'm absolutely thrilled to death with.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: There's nothing that brings me more joy to my flesh than putting on a brand new pair of socks.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: That's what I mean.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: You mentioned that.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: My wife opened up their trunk yesterday.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: We went out on a little date and there were brand new socks back there.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: She's all you're always buying socks because I love them.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I love, love, love socks.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Mark, you are the nightmare for the name of claimant people because you just said you'd be thrilled to death.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I can't say that.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I repute, I repute.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: I got two bags of coffee, one of them I've actually heard of before.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: Roadmap Coffee Works, so thank you so much.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Listen to this easy it's cranberry, milk chocolate and pecan pie.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Isn't that sound amazing?
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm mad?
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Oh him, that can't even be real.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Hey, give what you say Another gift will come.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: This is my favorite, those they sent me suspenders and they say for Oscar, you said you'd wear them, my friends.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: Podcast, episode 212.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: Don't think I won't.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't need to remind me, I will wear them, that's for sure.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sure it will.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, please send Oscar pants that go up to abs.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: He loves those.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, guys, so much.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Thank you, you blessed.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Our socks off, and here we have a comment.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Or for Mark, his socks on.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, socks on for Mark.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Here's a comment.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Friends, this is from E and E Connell.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you, friends.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: As a subject line, my husband and I have been watching your YouTube channel for a few years now.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: We love Ray's method of evangelizing.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: It has given us many tools to use when we want to speak with people about the Lord and His glorious gospel.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I recently had started listening to the podcast while I clean homes for a living.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: It makes me enjoy cleaning because I get to laugh, be edified and rejoice in the word Praying.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: You all, continue to share the truth boldly and never forsake your first love, the Lord Jesus Christ.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you, brothers, for all you do.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: God bless you, amen.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you for that encouragement and it blesses us to know that people you know they maximize their time Forget our podcast, but just when people are listening to the word or worshiping the Lord while they're working, it's such a joy.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Is that superglue for your lips also, please, please.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: It's cappuccino flavored.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: Oh no, Chapsnic.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Coffee flavored chapstick.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: I got some too.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: I got to look at mine here in a bit.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: All right, friends, this podcast was brought to you by the School of Biblical Evangelism.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Textbook 101 Lessons how to Share your Faith Simply, effectively and Biblically, the Way Jesus Did.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, we do have an online version, but I don't want to promote it today, just the textbook of which Mark Spence had a hand in.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Did you, what did you do?
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: True, pretty much, wrote it.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: No, boy, it was a fun project.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was 125 lessons to begin with, but Lynn Copeland pulled out the scalpel and brought it down to 101.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, lynn's amazing, that's not so bad.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, we moved all the good stuff.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: All right, friends, make sure to check it out.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: That's the School of Biblical Evangelism textbook.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Don't forget the Living Waters mug, the evidence study Bible, all at what.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a little living waters Like wow, good job, mark.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: Why do you make me do something like that?
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: That's my challenge to see if you can keep up every day.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: All right, friends.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Today we are dealing with a very important topic, one that has, as of late, sparked a lot of fire Fire.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Now, we know that people will be listening to these podcasts all through the years, and so this may be, in one sense, old news, but it's always current, because Christians are always wrestling with these sorts of things, and the question before us today is is it wrong for Christians to go to a gay or transgender wedding?
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: I'm just imagining someone who just got out of prison in some third world country where they don't have internet access like they do here, and cushy why is it a third world country?
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Cushy beds with fluffy pillows?
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: I don't think third world countries exist.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: They don't.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Anyway, yeah, yeah, we are the first world country.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Sorry, fourth world country.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: One, two, four, five.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: But no, I'm using that as an example, as a contrast from how you know.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I just watched a video on how they treat prisoners in Japan.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Really, they're humane, but these guys are like disciplined.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: They have to fold their blankets a certain way or you would thrive.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I know I'm like I could be a prison guard there he's gonna volunteer.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: No, it'd be a prisoner, yeah really, you know what I'm the best.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I would actually enjoy that.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I've seen those programs that I got arrested overseas and they throw in prisons.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: It's horrific.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I can't even watch them.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: They're so horrible.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: No, our prisons here are really nice, they're resort, they're California yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: You're the one who spent time in jail.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I, yeah, but no, I was just saying that to say you know, imagine someone coming out from a prison in a country where they don't have access to anything, and this was like 30 years later.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: And they hear what we just asked.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Like the question, like, is it wrong for a Christian to go to a gay or transgender wedding?
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: What do you mean?
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: First thing that you do, like, what do you mean?
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: What is a transgender Right?
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: That would be one thing.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: And then what do you mean?
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: A gay wedding?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: There's no such thing, but boy have times.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: And what do you mean?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: A wedding?
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much these days.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: So, guys, this is something that I think our listeners would appreciate us addressing, and I want to do so today, tactfully and respectfully, but genuinely and authentically and openly, because I was trying to give you more adjectives.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: This is Mr Phasaurus.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so let's kick this off and get everyone's input on that.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Ray, I'll start with you.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: No.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: Thank you for joining us today.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't go.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I just wouldn't even think of it, especially when we're talking about someone who said I would go and take a gift.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Well, why don't you take a party hat as well?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: If you're going to celebrate something that's called a wedding, that is not a wedding, it's a call it anything you will a celebration between two homosexuals or whatever, or transgender people that are going to be partners, or whatever but it's not a wedding.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: A wedding is something that's wholly sanctified by God and instigated by God, and it's between a man and a woman.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So I would not put a stamp of approval on it and say, oh, this is fine, here's a gift, here's a party hat, let's all party together.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: The prodigal's father didn't throw a party until after the son was repentant.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: That's when you rejoice, that's when you celebrate, that's when you put on a party hat and kill the fatted calf.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: And Peter would love to hear that Peter.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Peter would love to kill the fatted calf.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: No, sorry, let me just say that again Kill the fatted cabbage, yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: I'll be transition out of that one, the living vegan translation.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Right, well, that would be a good idea to put out a living vegan translation.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: The pages can be lettuce leaves they have to be.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Can't kill the trees.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but, ray, that's really a great point.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: The fact that we even call it a wedding is so insulting to the institution, the institution of marriage that the Lord established.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: So, mark, what are your thoughts on this?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: There's no way that I would attend a wedding ceremony of two guys, two girls, a guy who thinks he's a girl, because marriage has already been defined right and whenever it was, the US Supreme Court came along and tried to redefine it, which it was unsuccessful.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And in 2008, we had Proposition 8, no on 8, stop the hate, don't discriminate.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: And I remember I was out in Hollywood Boulevard and I was holding one of those, a sign going up against the proposition, and I was open air preaching and there was an actor from a show called Desperate Housewives that came up against me and people recognized who he was.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: They were all super excited.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Very eloquent man graduated from USC and he said man, listen, stop the hate.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, what does it bother you that if two guys that love each other, they want to get married?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And I said, sir, look, I'm not hating on anyone, but if you're going to allow two men to get married, well then why not three men?
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Why not a man and his dog?
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: How about a woman wanting to marry herself?
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Or how about a guy who wants to marry himself because of the tax benefits that's attached to it, who's been diagnosed with dual personalities?
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: You can attempt to redefine marriage, but you can't.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I read an interesting thing about President Abraham Lincoln, who was once embroiled with a dispute with a colleague and unable to get his opponent to see the error of his thinking.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Lincoln said hey, let me ask you a question how many legs does a cow have?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Well, a four, of course.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Well, now suppose, continue the president.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: What if you call the cow's tail a leg?
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Well then, how many legs does a cow have?
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Well, five, replied the man.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: See, that's where you're wrong, replied Lincoln.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Calling a cow's tail a leg does not make it a leg.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite a tail.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: You see the world we live in seems obsessed with calling a cow's tail a leg, for fear of offending the cow, who insists that he has five legs.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Tolerance has become a virtual idol and the number of its worshipers seems to grow daily.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: And faced with so many different claims to what is true or what is the proper way to live one's life, and tolerance has become the only acceptable response, a person who believes in transcendent truth is regarded by the world with suspicion and, paradoxically, intolerant because we have an objective stance.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Who's that quote by?
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I said it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Wow, I love that quote by Lincoln.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: That's really, really powerful and that, I think, is a reflection of the insanity that's found in the day and age in which we live, where that's exactly what's happened.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: We've made it acceptable because people just want to randomly and arbitrarily do it.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: We've accepted calling things that they're not, and I think that this is, more than anything, destroying and doing a massive disservice to the next generation.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanna take a step back because but you're sitting, because I wanna imagine that, by the nature of the title of this episode, that maybe some Christians are joining us that aren't familiar, because they're really sincerely struggling.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: Maybe they're like yes, gay weddings are not glorifying to God, but then the way that people struggle and I've discipled a handful of people through this the way they typically struggle sounds something like man.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: I don't believe in same-sex weddings, I don't believe in gay weddings, but I'm always seen as the enemy in my household or in my family.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: Would this be an olive branch?
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: Can I go and not affirm?
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: And let me start by saying that the desire to not be seen as hateful is valuable and important, because God desires us to love our enemies, and I know in the hearts of every Christian, we know that we're no better than our gay brothers and sisters and cousins and nephews and nieces and uncles and whoever the case.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: And while I do think that there are ways in which Christians can offer olive branches to reach the lost, the challenge that I see is that when you attend a wedding, you are participating, and that's the key here.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: You are participating, you are affirming, you are playing witness to something sacred, and so when you attend, that's your role.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: You know, when we get the invitation, some people are like, oh cool, some people look at an invitation.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: A secular way of looking at an invitation to a wedding is like sweet, I'm in their top 100.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Oh cool, I get a free dinner.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Oh great, there's gonna be a DJ.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: Oh neat, like they thought about me.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: But to Christians, a wedding isn't that?
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: It's not an invitation to a party.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: It's you being invited to affirm a covenant that God is making between one man and one woman.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: And because that is your role, my conviction is that I can't attend that wedding, and I've discipled people into looking at it that way as well.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: Man, we wanna love our brothers and sisters, uncles, nephews, nieces, whatever they are.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: There are other ways of handing them a gift, there's other ways of spending time with them, but that, for me, is an area that is sacred and defined by the Lord.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: You know it doesn't happen much anymore, but you'd see the officiant who would stand up there and say is there anyone that objects?
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have any reason, now is your time.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Speak now, forever.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Hold your peace.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, are you going to stand when the bride or when they both walk down the aisle?
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna smile when they kiss?
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna celebrate when you see them at the reception and say congratulations?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, how do you do that with a clear conscience?
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Well, when they go in the honeymoon?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean how do you?
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, and you know, I think one of the biggest tragedies today is that we give a sense that compassion and truth are mutually exclusive, and that's a tragedy.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Truth is one of the greatest expressions of compassion.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: How can we have compassion on someone, care for someone, and then not tell them the truth and instead butter them up with a lie or tell them what they wanna hear, or give the impression that we're in support or what have you?
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: And so I think it's huge.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: We need to recognize that truth demonstrates compassion and love, and we as Christians can never compromise it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, ray, without the foundation of truth, we don't have anything.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have all these dilemmas.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: We're thrown into frog and throat.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: That was one of them.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I dealt with it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: That is what forsaken the instruction book for humanity, the Bible, and when you forsake that, then anything goes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: You know the cow has four legs.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Five legs, whatever.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Whatever you feel the cow has, because you haven't even looked at what God's word says, which tells us right from wrong, gives us a view of reality that God made male and female in the beginning.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: You see our origins, why we exist and what's going to happen after death, and the world's in darkness.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: So it just makes up what it wants to make up.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I wonder if we're missing the forest because of the trees when it comes to this whole issue that we are condemning a wedding, when the real issue is that we see sinners who are going to hell.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: That's the real issue, whether they be adulterers, fornicators, blasphemers, liars, homosexuals.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Scripture begins be not deceived.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Neither fornicators let me read it Do not know the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Do not be deceived, boy.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: That's well placed.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists will inherit the kingdom of God.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: That's the issue.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: If you see someone getting into a car and it's got no brakes and it's heading downhill, love has to warn and we've got to set homosexuals.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: It's the same with adulterers, same with fornicators.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: If you continue in this lifestyle, what you do, whether you pretend to get married or whatever, is irrelevant.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: What matters Are you going to die in your sins or are you going to die in Christ?
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, too, we need to remember that to make light of something that God highlights as radically abominable to him is in itself an abomination.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Think of what Romans 1.26-27 says.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: For this reason, god gave them up to vile passions, for even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Likewise, also, the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust for one another.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error, which was due.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: When we attend a wedding that is celebrating this, we're in essence just saying, oh, that's really no big deal, and I think that and I'll talk about this more in a moment but I think it goes to the desensitization in our culture today.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: So I referenced it in the beginning and I want to talk about it, and that is our dear and highly respected brother, alistair Begg started a firestorm by coming out with, I think it was, a program where he was talking about a grandmother that came and asked him for advice about attending her grandchild's wedding and I'm still confused whether it was a grandson or grandchild, but there's transgenderism, involved homosexuality, and Alistair Begg pretty much said that he advised the grandmother to attend and to take a gift, and that the reasoning behind it is that, you know, we don't want to continue to give this impression that we, as Christians are always contrary and that we're not loving, and so on and so forth.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: But let me say very clearly that Alistair Begg is a solid, godly man who does not affirm homosexuality, who's even publicly stated he would go to prison if he had to in order to stand up for biblical truth and if he was called upon to compromise or whatever.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, he's a very sweet guy.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I had dinner with him, Kirk and I had dinner with him many years ago and just a very nice guy.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: No, he's one of the most respected Bible teachers, one of my absolute favorites.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, I love him and respect him and, yeah, and I met him as well.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Kirk had him on a television interview and you and I were there for that and I got to.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: You know, talk to him a bit.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Great, great brother.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: And to add one other thing he has clarified he is not generally saying all Christians should go to gay weddings, he is saying this specific person in this specific instance, I advised in this way, and so I think, when we talk about this, it's just really clear that we don't get wrong.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: We want to charitable and not get wrong what he's saying.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Right and I want to you know again.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I want to say that this is not a time for us to to be harsh on our brother, and many have been, and that's grieved me deeply, and so I think we can also talk about how do we deal with he also got canceled, didn't he?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: A couple of places.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was removed from a big radio network and a lot of leaders have kind of pulled back, and so I think the whole thing is tragic.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: I'm heartbroken because I know that it has unquestionably limited his reach and effectiveness, and I think that's a tragedy, because I don't think it should, but that's how human nature works.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: It's ruined a great reputation.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: If it had been me, I would have said whoops, because I do it all the time.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: We know and so we talk about these things.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: And the reason why we're talking about it is because it is out now in the public, because Alster has been approached and a lot of Christians in instances like this will look and say, well, look, this was a public thing that happened, so it can be addressed publicly.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: And I would look and say, technically, yeah, it can, and if people choose to, they could.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: My heart and these sorts of things would always be.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Even if it can be addressed publicly, legitimately, if possible, try to address it privately first.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's so true, because that's what love does.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Love covers a multitude of sins.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Peacemaker.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: So you can look and say, well, this was public, I'm going to do it publicly.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: And some people that I really respect and love did it publicly and they did it tactfully and wisely.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: But I would go a step further and say if those who know Alster could have approached him privately and said, brother, hey, we just want to bring this to your attention.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: If at that point he says, nope, I'm sticking with it, then I think it's great to move forward in that regard.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: But nonetheless, here's where we're at and I'd like to talk about that.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Guys, what do you think about the way people have responded, and how should we respond to things like that?
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Mark that Well, I haven't listened too much to what people have to say about it.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I did listen to the briefing with Al Moller and he discussed it and he said listen, my stance has always been what it's always been concerning the subject.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: It's very simple.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, men have been swallowing nonsense since the beginning of time.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: We need to stick to our guns, listen to what the word of God has to say and leave it at that Easy.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: You and I we've talked about well, where do you draw the line?
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, if someone said, well, if you love me, grandma, I understand, I just got out of prison, but I need some money, would you mind being the driver of my getaway car?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Or listen, what kind of car?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Or sit in the back seat of my getaway car?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Would you be willing to do that?
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: If you love me, would you be willing to do that?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And that's nonsensical, right.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: But this is what's happening with our day and age, the way we are normalizing sinful behavior, and we need to be careful of that.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: You know, we become a generation that laughs when a baby is ripped limb from limb in the womb, yet we cry when someone calls them by the wrong pronoun, right, transgender people.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: They come along and they say, listen, I want you to accept me for the way I am, but they can't accept themselves for the way they are.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Right, I was reading earlier today was so interesting about a group that this transgender community.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: They promote equality.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And if they promote equality, why do they have so many labels?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: This website that I found this stat from says love has no labels.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: That's the name of the website Love has no labels.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: And then they proceed to tell us how many labels are found within the LGBTQIA plus, which includes individuals who identify as queer, questioning, intersex, asexual and more Right.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So it is a very sensitive subject, but it's a very simple answer.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Very simple on how we respond to the midst of this and we don't apologize.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: This is why I love MacArthur so much.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: You know, when he goes on CNN and other places, when he's asked a question just states what the Bible has to say.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: My opinion is absolutely irrelevant.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: We need to speak the truth.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: We need to speak it in love to your question and all things were just, were charitable, of course, right, our brother gets a mulligan, he gets a do-over, but he needs to be able to speak up in the midst of this.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: He's going to be asked this again and I fear for the people that have listened to this that use that as a license now to sin or somebody who's struggling with their own identity and now they're going to head down that route because that's where it's heading.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: It's a very slippery slope.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: You know, if I say that I identify as a forefoot to pig me albino, do I get a scholarship for those who qualify for such a realm?
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I have no one's listening, that's a forefoot.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Pig me albino.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Ray was like.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: I wish I was forefoot too I wish I was that tall.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: If I said I identify as a paraplegic, do I get a handicap placard?
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: You know, just because I'm saying that I am, and the truth of the matter is no, we don't, Because with truth there's consequences.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the question that I would humbly ask our brother Alastair, and I mean it sincerely.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: You know, if it were the same situation and that same grandmother, and again with what Oscar said, let's say this was the individual counsel he gave someone.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: But if it was the same grandmother and she said look, someone just asked me if I would attend their wedding.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: It's this gentleman who's marrying his daughter and he asked me if I would attend.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: This is a real long time friend of mine and I care for him.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Or, you know, my friend is marrying his animal.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, we could think down the line when these things will become legal, because they're already trying for that.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: What would he say in that regard?
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: You know, because, ray, the perspective is, if you don't go, it's like you now are showing that you don't care about this person, but no one is saying this means to end your relationship with them.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Right, that's very valid.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we can continue.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: We can say no, I'm not going to this, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to talk to you as my grandson or love you and so forth, right?
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: It's a really hot issue and it's one that I think so many Christians are fearful to even go near, and I'm wondering if maybe it's because we don't want to bear the reproach of Christ.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: All who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Men love darkness and hate the light.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: So when you bring light into a dark situation, they're going to turn their hatred on you.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: So, but it's something we've got to bear.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: And Oscar, we can say to someone look, I mean and someone brought this point up as well this grandchild was probably already expecting his grandma not to go.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: He probably.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: He knows she's a believer, he knows where Christians stand in this regard, and so you know how.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you this how would you articulate it if it was your grandchild and this scenario came up?
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: What would you say that's a really good question.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I would.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: I take them out to lunch dinner, buy them a meal and walk them through something that I've said on the podcast before, which is the idea of respect, protect and reject.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: It's three part.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: It's listen.
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: I want you to know that I love you and I respect you as a human being, and if anybody has ever diminished your value and worth as a human being by using homophobic remarks towards you, by belittling you, man, I would stand with you and against that behavior.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: I respect you.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: I also protect your rights as a human being, as a fellow American.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: There are Islamic parts of the world where you would be murdered for this and I would stand against that and for you.
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: But also, please recognize that I just you and I don't agree on our views of sexuality, and so I'm rejecting your view in sexuality.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: But then I would say this notice that you're also rejecting my view of sexuality, and what?
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Because here's the thing is that if you look at me and you say, man, how dare he not go to my wedding?
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: What you're telling me essentially is you have to agree with my views on sexuality.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: You are forcing your worldview, your belief system, on me, and if I don't adhere to it, you're gonna push me out of your life and please see, I haven't done that with you.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: Wow, I'm not pushing you out of my life, so could you respect me in the same way that I'm respecting you?
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: That's so good.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Oscar, that's good.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Oscar, that's good, and I hope those of you listening have found that helpful.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: That's a great model Because, Mark, I think whenever people think about this they constrict time, which means that they're envisioning the grandchild ass and on the spot, no, I'm not going, and it's just like this boom.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: But I love that, Oscar, that approach of let's go out to eat, let's sit down, let's cut maybe a little space between asking and sitting down and talking.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Thanks for inviting me.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: I'd love to take you out to lunch and discuss that further.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: We need to think through these things now.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: We need to establish our thoughts and the scriptures and how we're going to handle these things, Cause it's not if this is going to happen, it's when these things are going to happen.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: They will become normalized in our generation.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: We're going to see things pass more than likely if not our generation, the next generation, where adults will be able to marry kids, or we'll see something become legal that should always remain illegal.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: It's an insane asylum, right, and we have lunatics that are running the insane asylum.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I cannot have listen if it was my son in the same situation, and amen to everything that Oscar said.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I want to memorize what he had said.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: But I will allow them into my house, Like if they were to get married.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I would allow them into my house.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I would not allow them to be inside the same room.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: You know it's all right, we're going to bed, All right.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Well, you're sleeping in separate rooms, You're in separate rooms.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: You got to understand that this is not a house like that.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: So I will love on you.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I've shown that I love you.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Love is a verb, John Mayer says, but Christ said a verse right, Love, it's an action.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: It's something that needs to be demonstrated through what we do and how we behave.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: So they would never question my love for them because I've demonstrated my love for them up until this point.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Right, so yeah, and this is really a good thing for Christians to think through and to realize at the same time that sometimes we all land in different places.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: You know and I think Mark, you and I maybe have discussed this before, I can't remember, but I wrestle with that on a personal level Like, would I allow my child, who marries someone else, continue to come to my home and to like be part of family gatherings and family events?
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: And the reason why I'm thinking through that is because how does that impact the next generation within the home?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's a great point, Cause it depends on the kids.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, who's there in the midst of that?
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I can't just celebrate and pretend like there's nothing wrong.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm talking about me and them directly, individually, with nobody else around, right?
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: yeah, and that's the thing you know.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: I've spoken with family members that have wrestled with that.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Like what do I do, you know?
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Do I let them just come around together?
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Do I say to my child look, I love you, you're my child, but I can't in any way give any sense of normalcy to this.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: You know, absolutely.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: It's stuff to wrestle through and think through on different levels and recognizing that, yeah, the heart is man.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: We want to be alive, we want to reach them and we're going to do it in a way that's not compromising, like you're saying, mark.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: That's not compromising for you because you're clear, but you're not allowing the occasion for sin within your home, but you're looking at them as two unbelievers and you want to reach them, even though it's your child.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Easy.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Would you attend a wedding with a man marrying a woman?
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: The man is your son.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: He's a believer, but he's married a non-believer.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Would you attend a wedding where your saved son wants to marry a non-believer?
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely not, see, I mean.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So that's so.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: What we're demonstrating here is listen, we have convictions and there's nothing wrong with having these convictions.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the reason why I wouldn't do that is because it's unbiblical right, that's right, that's exactly right, he's professing Christ.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: He can't be unequal.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: But, ray, I want to bring out this other point that someone mentioned to me and I was like, oh, I didn't even think about this In regard to this whole thing with our brother Alastair and the grandma.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: So, ray, one thing we leave out often in these situations is what Jesus said in Matthew 10, 34 to 39,.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Do not think I came to bring peace on earth.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: I did not come to bring peace, but a sword, for I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's enemies will be those of his own household.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: He who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: He who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: And often these words get lost amid the modernized version of Jesus, that Jesus actually brings division between families.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Speak to them.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: So while we're on the subject of causing division, we might as well go all the way and share the gospel with him.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And just yesterday I spent 20 minutes in a very spirited conversation with a young lady who was very angry because her parents were hypocrites.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: They were professing Christians.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I said were they hypocrites?
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, ended up with divorce, leaving her scarred.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: So she had the gospel with her.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And there was still that between her and I.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I could just feel it.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: She wasn't saying absolutely.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: This is meaning a lot to me.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: She just said but I'm gay.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: And I said to her what's that got to do with anything?
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: You are in big trouble with God.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: You've told me you're a liar, a blaspheme or a thief.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: And she started nodding.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: And it's not.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: We can share the gospel without bringing out the subject.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: It's gonna make them put the boxing gloves on.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: That's a good point, they're ready for it, so you can just share the biblical gospel without compromise.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: And then in the end and she took this, I said and, by the way, can't remember her name.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: I said, by the way, when you do repent, that means you turn from lying, stealing, blasphemy, fornication, adultery and homosexuality.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I said the miracle is that God will give you a new heart so you love righteousness.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And she nodded and took my book from me, which was wonderful.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that, Ray, too.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: I was gonna allude to it that we cannot leave the gospel out of these conversations, and I think there's no more fitting predicament in which we can bring it up.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: And here's why because and we find a tactful way to take it back to Christ.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: Here's what he said.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Here's what sin is.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Here's God's wrath and judgment against sin.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Here's God's solution for sin.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: However, the Bible says such were some of you, and that's even referring to homosexuality.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: It shows that God can change the heart and the person, so it's important that we don't lose that in the midst of it all.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I heard somebody say in response to a homosexual saying I was born this way, and their response was well, that's why you need to be born again.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: No, born from above.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: But, Mark and Oscar, what do you guys think about that whole element that we often leave out, that Jesus does often bring division, not because we're stupid, zealous, tactful if I can use that word Christians, but it's because we're standing up for righteousness.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: I think that I'm glad you said that last part of it, because that verse can often be used and excused to not be tactful, to be a jerk for Jesus.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: But ultimately, what that verse is reminding us of is that the world rejected Christ, god, the creator of everything.
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: They put Him on a cross and crucified Him, and now, as a Christian, christ lives in you.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: Right, you put on the Christ, you are hidden in Christ.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: If they rejected the world, they're gonna reject you, but it's not you who are there rejecting, it's the Christ in you that's being rejected and that's where our comfort comes from, and so this verse is a prime example.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: Is man, this is picking up your cross is gonna mean sacrifice.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: It's gonna mean relationships that are strained not because of your behavior, but because of the Christ that lives in you.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, mark, what do you think?
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree, I don't think I have anything to add to that.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: We have to understand that we're gonna get this persecution as Paul talks about Corinthians from outside and from inside, from people that we've labored along with and people that we've just met.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: If we stand on the word of God, then we're safe, we're fine.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I wish that he would have reached out to the people and asked other people what their thoughts were on it and before he gave advice like that.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised that he did not do that and hence he's being canceled.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I unfollowed Him on Instagram.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: I don't, obviously he doesn't care, but I'm like you know, I just don't have time.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I wanna follow certain people who are just extremists for Christ.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: If you would write that, just, I want God more than anything and I want God's word to get out there and that's it.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: But I give them a mulligan.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: You get a mulligan.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, what that looks like, but I'm not inviting you to speak at my conference.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: What is a mulligan?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Did you have one before?
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: It's when it grows back after you get rid.
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: I will say this just because, on that note, let me say something as a word of encouragement, which is I remember when I first became a Christian I was so hungry for preaching.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: This is like pre-social media internet.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: I was just out there googling away and I come across this old I can still picture it to this day this like generation two internet website and it was Gospel for Life and it was this dude with the weird accent, it was Allister Beg, and I remember I was so blown away because the sermons were categorized by verses and it was like my first introduction into expository preaching and I, because you couldn't stream, then I downloaded those MP4 or MP3 files, whatever they were, burned them onto a CD and would just consume.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: And so to your point earlier, because we've, you know, I've seen some people like go online and be like, oh, rip Allister Beg, we can't or burn, it's like that's not on the table here.
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: This is a brother who has faithfully served Christ, who still is faithfully serving Christ, and I think you know we're 45 minutes in.
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: It's clear that we lovingly disagree with him, but we should do that charitably, remembering that he's our brother in the Lord, Amen.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: And again one of the, I think, greatest preachers of our time and a stalwart for truth, a man who's taken a stance for righteousness uncompromisingly.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: And so, like I said, I think this is all sad and tragic and my hope is still that this can be rectified.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: My hope is that our brother would look at this, talk to other respective godly men in his circles and get their input, and be able to look and say you know what, now that I think about it, I actually wouldn't give that advice, and now I see why.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: Well, after hearing this podcast.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: How could you know?
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: So, anyhow, well, there you have it, friends.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Ray, were you going to say something?
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: No Good.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you, friends.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: Don't forget the School of biblical vandalism textbook Living Waters, Mug evidence study Bible, all livingwaterscom.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: And don't forget to please write to us.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: We love to hear from you, Mark.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: You're staring at me, like you, like me.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: No, I was wondering if you're going to ask people to send me socks.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: You don't need to.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I just love them.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Please send Mark your used holy socks.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: He would love them.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: It's just going to be a bit weird.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is weird.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: So anyhow, friends, make sure to all that good stuff Remember podcast at livingwaterscom with your thoughts and ideas and give us those ratings and comments and all that good stuff.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Hey, I'm bringing it back where we have no idea what we're doing.
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: I think I just heard a glass break.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Oh wait, the Living Waters podcast.