Latest / GenX Adulting Podcast / Episode 37 - Cheating and Your Partner Having Friends of the Opposite Sex

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Episode 37 - Cheating and Your Partner Having Friends of the Opposite Sex · GenX Adulting Podcast

• 0:00
  [Music]Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we aregoing to discuss cheating, boundaries ina marriage or relationship when it comesto the opposite sex.And maybe touch on adultfriendships in general.Cool.So, I would like to put it out there thatin our 33 years together, 33 yearstogether, we've been, this September willbe 31 married, dating 32.So 32 years together.
• 0:52
  Neither one of ushave cheated on each other.Brian's smiling. Do you have a secret?Not.We have not cheated on each other.So, we do not have experience with thatourselves in our marriage.We both did cheat inrelationships before we got married.We were very young, ofcourse, in high school, college.So that'd be teenagerand really early 20s.I know I did.And I think you did.I plead the fifth.Yeah, you don't.We both had experiencewith that, but we were young.And I think that happensa lot when you're young.There's no excuse for it.I don't, you know, and I definitely triedto raise our kids to know that it's notokay, but I thinkit's definitely not okay.Once you get married.And if you're in a long-termrelationship, for sure.I mean, I was going to qualify if you'rein like a partnership or marriage or, youknow, something more than just a fling ora high school orcollege kind of situation.Yeah, that kind of thing.But because I think cheatingdoes happen when you're young.It's a lack of maturity.Your frontal lobe hasn't closed.You don't have as much impulse control.You don't always make the best decisions.Usually there's alcohol involved.Yeah.So, but once you make that commitment, Imean, I know I told you before we wereeven married, if you cheat, that's it.I'm the type that if youcheat, there's no forgiveness.We're done because I can't trust again.Once that trust is gone,trust is so important to me.And once that trust isgone, you can't get that back.And so that for me at the age of 22, Iknew that that would bea game changer for me.Did you actually tell me that?Because I don't recall that because itwasn't an issue, but was that a hard ruleat the time or something?It was not that it's not a hard rule.I don't mean it that way, but youactually, was that like athing you recall telling me?Yeah.Okay. Yeah.No, because my dad had cheated.Like my dad was somebody who cheated onhis spouses and probablyanyone he was involved with.And so I had a hugestigma because of that.And I knew if I was good, once I gotmarried, that was it.And if my husband cheated on me, so I wasalready coming into it with thatsuspicion, that concern.Right.So I knew I wouldn't come back from it.Yeah.I don't think anyone really does.I don't think so either.Even if you stay in the marriage, I thinkit's such a deep wound that I don't thinkit ever fully heals.And you're always suspicious and you cannever trust that person again.And you cannot have a successfulmarriage, an authentic marriage, anauthenticrelationship without 100% trust.And I think a lot of that goes into whereI've gone back to, you need to be bestfriends with your spouse or your partner.Because when you are best friends,there's just certain lines you will notcross because you were treating thatperson like a friend, like how you wouldtreat your best friend.You know, it's funny you say that.I meant to send you this,send you this article earlier.What some website I was on your site hadmentioned, it talked about the key tolong marriages and it was talking aboutthe foundation as a friendship.Yeah.The foundation of thelonger successful marriages.So here's the thing.People think that, you know, when youhave that feeling of you're in love andyou are feeling all those feelings andit's just so intense and it's sowonderful that that'sthat's what that's your person.That's your partner.That's your soulmate.But life is very long and there's a lotof things that happen in life.Eventually you lose your parents.You could have severe tragedy happen.Unexpected tragedy.You could there's could be job loss.There could be times whenyou don't have any money.There could be times when you have tomove away from your family.So there's a lot that goes on in life.If you have dogs, you whenever you losethe dog, that's a horrendous experience.That in love feeling is not enough.It just is not enough.You need to be best friends.I can't stress that enough.You need that best friend relationship toget you through life together.And of course you love that person.And you can totally bein love with that person.I mean, you can bethat can go hand in hand.You can be in love with the person, butyou need to make sureyou're also best friends.It can't just be beingin love with the person.So I think when you are in love with theperson and they're yourbest friend, you don't cheat.I just don't think you cheat becausecheating is one of those things thatcould happen in life.And you can't come back from that.And that immediately destroysa marriage and a relationship.And I think that if you wouldn't treatyour best girlfriend orbest guy friend that way,why would you treat your spouse that way?Why would you treatyour partner that way?You need to treat your partner as good asyou would treat your best girlfriend oryour best guy friend.Better, better.But so many times people treat theirspouse worse than they do their friends.So I think it's just very important thatyou have that friendship there.Because I think if you have that truefriendship, that truebest friendship there,you can't look the other person in theeye if you've cheated.I don't think you can.I think if you're truly best friends, youcan't come back and live with yourself.And so then that brings up,okay, so why does someone cheat?Why do men cheat?If you were going to speculate on why mencheat, you've never cheated.So you're not coming at this frompersonal experience.But as a man, if you were to speculate,why do you think men cheat?I think there's that thing where I'veread or heard that men fall in love like10 times a day type of thing.And you know, especiallywhen you're younger, right?If you're out and about, I don't know,I'll make up bad examples, but you go tothe mall and you see a pretty girl.It's like, oh my God, I love her.And then you, you know, you're in Macy's.Then you go to Nordstrom's or whateverand you see another pretty girl.Oh my God, I'm in love with her.I think that's normal.That's being attracted to someone.But I, you cross the line for whateverreason when you act on it and you startto be, I don't know, acting on it, right?But I don't know.I don't know why, you know, there's allthose concepts or thoughts.Is it power?Is it ego?Is it, you know, low selfesteem on the guy's part?Is it, you know, you're provingsomething, whatever it is.I don't know.I can only speculate, but because Ihaven't, but you know,I know I think it's ego.I think a lot of it's ego.I think that men who cheat have got to besome form of narcissist in some waybecause you're completely.Focusing on your immediate wants andneeds over a lifeyou've built with someone.But is it really right?I think it almost, it probably is, but atthe same time, would you cheat on, say,your soulmate or your bestfriend type of thing, right?Right.So maybe, you know, you cheat.You're always fishing and looking forother options until you find the personthat is your person.You're always your friend, your soul, youknow, all thedifferent terms you can use.So do you think that people who cheat,didn't marry the right one?A hundred percent.
• 9:43
  Yeah.Do you think that there's people thatwill cheat no matter what?Absolutely.That will never be able to be committed.A hundred percent.So it goes, that's why Ithink it's not just ego, right?There are some deep,deep rooted issues here.Probably that's drivingthe cheating behavior.It's lack of faithfulness.Really, it's lack of a connection.Those type of things.And that's why I say, I think there'snarcissism in there.But why, if it's unhealthy, insecure, wetalked about attachment styles, right?And if you're insecure, insecurelyattached from day one within yourprimary, with your primary caregivers,maybe that kind of carries you throughlife in that, in that vein, in a sense.Okay. So that now we're talking aboutlike where people come from theirchildhood, their trauma, their issues andall that that goes into play.So.So do you think people mask?I think people, cause I always, I seepeople sometimes say choose better,choose better, but don't you thinkeveryone's putting on their best face?And do you think men in particular put ontheir best face and don't really show whothey are until well into a relationship,until they really have gotten the person?I think that it, that is a, it depends.And I think it depends on when you gettogether with say your future wife.You and I got together in college. Wedrove around the country for a few monthstogether. We lived together for a while.So any, you know, imperfections we had,whether they were physical, you know, apimple or whatever, right?And then, um, blemishes to personalityquirks kind of got sorted out, right?That's why I think we're both bigadvocates of living withsomeone before you get married.And that's, I think it's a semi goldenrole. You should definitely do thatbecause you'll figureyour shit out together.I think if you meet up with someone laterin life that you don'thave much history on,you know, you're going to have to be able to get a little bit of pressure aroundyour biological clock running.That could be for both men and women,right? Women have a more definedbiological clock than men.But men also have one if they want tokind of, you know, if to stay status quo,I guess, in a sense.Those are probably different.
• 12:20
  There'slack of history, lack of bonding, lack ofgrowing up together.My parents, you know, if my dad was stillalive, they would be married, I don'tknow, a hundred years.You know, 50, 60 years, whatever it is,they got together young.So I do think that dependson, you know, the phase of life.And there's the people who get together.It's their second orthird marriage, right?And some of those are extremelysuccessful because they'vekind of figured stuff out.They've sorted through their issues. Theyknow what they want.They're no longer marrying for someunhealthy reason.
• 13:02
  It'smore a healthy connection.So, I mean, I don't know.Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. I justthink it's really tough.I think if somebody is not being theirauthentic self, then they mask whenthey're looking for a partner.They're almost being a chameleon. They'rebeing who they think they need to be forthat person to lure them in, bait them.And I think with some personalities, theycan do that for a really long time.Like, I think they cando that for a year or two.Do you, are you saying like the guythat's doing that or the woman thatthey're both doing it, right?I think somebody is.
• 13:48
  I'm not sayingthey're both necessarily doing it.I'm saying in a given situation, therecould be masking going on.And that's why I think if you tell peoplechoose better, a lot of peoplethink they are choosing well.And then they don't realize who theymarried until a couple of years later.I see where you're going.And then sometimes everything might befine because it's justthe two of them, right?And so there's no huge challenges, butthen you bringchildren into the situation.And one of the people and in thatsituation is probably aguy, the guy, the man.They don't like the pressures or thestresses or now she's having to giveattention to the children and he doesn'tget as much attention.And so then the mass comes off in thatsituation, but that's a new situation hewas never presented with before.So you almost when you're with someone ina relationship, as life hits you with abunch of different upsand downs and challenges,you're kind of always growing togetherand getting to know yourpartner as life goes on,because there's things that you gothrough that neither one ofyou have experienced before.So there you could be shocked.The person that you ended up with the waythey handled a situation could absolutelyblow your mind andaffect how you view them.And one of those things, oneof those things is cheating.And I think that there's people who getmarried and think that their partnerwould never ever cheat.But there has been people who've hadwhole other lives going on that havemanaged two different relationships orthen on dating apps,seeing multiple people andholding down a solid relationship.I cannot relate to that at all.I can barely do what I'm doing in thesense of the amount of time and theenergy and the commitment tobeing part of a family unit.How the hell do you live a double life?That's beyond me.But I think they're not as involved.I think a lot of these people could betraveling for work or theyalways have to do something.They're not home.I just don't think they're home as much.I think they've set thetone right from the start.I'm only going to be home this muchbecause it gives them freedom.There's an out.There's an out.They always have an out.They didn't start off committed in afamily person right from the start sothat there would always be that thatfreedom, if that makes sense.And then that goes back to so they aren'twith the right person because if you'rewith the rightperson, you want to be home.You want to be with your children.That's your first priority.Right.So if that's and that's whatbrings me back to narcissism.I really do think people who cheat arenarcissists because you aren't thinkingabout anyone but yourself.But you have everything you should bethinking about in that time of your life.You should be thinking about your spouseor your partner and thecommitment you've made to them.And if you've had children, you'rerisking destroying an entire family.Like I always say, I hope that that sexwas worth half of everything you make andyour children may be never speaking toyou again because that's it better bethat good because that's what you havethe potential to lose.I mean, it better be the best thing ever.Yeah.You know, and because obviously theydon't care about losing their spousebecause they're willing to risk that.But you're willing to risk yourchildren's respect and how they view youbecause once your children know youcheated on their mom or their dad, yourchildren will never lookat you the same way again.Ever.Yeah, probably.The respect is gone.So I don't know if that's true.I don't know if the respect is gone.It does change.Right.So, you know, this is a dynamic change,but you know, you could probably explainyourself out of most things to yourchildren because they, you know, theykind of, they look up to you so muchuntil it's really gone off the rails.Right?But while they're still say younger orimpression impressionable, you couldprobably work that a little bit.I don't know.I think kids are smart and especially,you know, what if they're teenagers,middle schoolers when this happens?Well, a lot of times I think the cheatingspouse will blame the otherparent for whatever reason.They'll make shit up if they have to,right? Or they'll have their case.They always have theirreason and the case for why.And yeah, I don't know.Okay. So let me ask you this is there'sbeen, there's been men,I'm going to speak on withabout men in this situation.There's men who say I cheated because Iwasn't getting it at home.Mm hmm.I think that's insane to say,but I think that's an insane.Okay. So in my mind, what ifit's like a five year drought?Okay. Okay. But in mymind, there should be therapy.Like they should be attending therapy.If you're talking a five year drought,but let's be real, that's not what it is.Okay. So guys would have every day,right? Every day, maybemultiple times a day, if they could.Let's be real. We all know that. Andwomen aren't as interested in as menbecause not just becausethey are carrying so much and so muchstress. And if a woman isstressed out and burnout,I'm sorry, it's just not at the top ofher list. But biologically in general,they're not as readyto go as men are. So a man could be like,I wasn't getting it athome. Meaning for a lot of guys,it could be like, I was only getting ittwice a week. But like,there's all this life going on.So but if it really mattered to him, ifthat was really it, then heshould love her and care abouther and treat her like a best friend andtalk to her about it andsay, look, this is reallyimportant to me. And we need to talkabout this, what's going on instead ofgoing out and cheatingon her. What if they've tried that and itdoesn't work out, thenthere's no happy medium.
• 20:20
  Okay, so ifyou try and try and try, and you'veyou've done everything,you've tried to talk to her, you'vetried to go to therapy, whatever, thenyou you get out of the relationship orthe marriage, you don'tcheat. Okay, so that's where you're gonnadraw the line is you justdon't cheat. If it's that bad,then move on. Yes, and dissolve themarriage. You never cheat.Yeah. Okay. There's no excusefor cheating. Yeah.
• 20:45
  So if it's, but Ijust think that's such a cop out sayingbecause then you're,when you say it's because you weren'tgetting in at home.
• 20:55
  He'sflipping it and blaming her. He'she's put accountability under her. Idon't I'm not trying to take thecontrarian opinion here anddefend men. Yeah, no, it could be true.And what's your point?
• 21:06
  I think youranswer is a good one.It's like you try you've tried to figureit out. Yeah. And if youcan't then move on.
• 21:11
  Yeah, youknow, and you're just not compatible and,you know, move on.
• 21:16
  And community,communicate, communicate.But here's another thing, though. I dothink when you're dating andtogether, and if the personcheats while you're dating, that's crazy.You should not marry thatperson. Yeah. And if youstay with that person, and then theycheat again, it's like, come on. So andI, so I think whoeverthat happens to, if it's a man or awoman, you you're responsible for yourreaction to that andyour decision making.
• 21:52
  If you choose tomarry someone who'scheated on you, then you know,there's a high chance they're going tocheat on you.
• 21:58
  Well, Iagree. If there's pre marriagecheating, there should not be a marriage.Right. You just don't getmarried. But what about whatis your thoughts on if someone cheatswhile in the marriage?What do you do there?
• 22:14
  I'm I myguess is you'll say counseling and seewhat you can work out. Butwell, no, no, no, I would leave.I'm done. I'm done.
• 22:21
  There's no comingback for me personally.
• 22:25
  I'm going to saymy opinion. There isno coming back from cheating.
• 22:29
  There's nocoming back from it. It'sthe ultimate betrayal.
• 22:33
  So Iunderstand that for me for you. But youknow, I mean, I think I mean,there's a lot of people thatdo they'll go to counseling.
• 22:44
  I don't knowwhat they do, to be honest, because Ican't even fathom it.I just don't think there you've killedall the trust in thefriendship and in the marriage andin the relationship.
• 23:01
  There is no moretrust. Because let me askyou this quick question.
• 23:05
  Now,I think I have a feeling I know yourperspective here.
• 23:11
  Butcheating. What if it's a there's Ido you think there's a difference betweena relationship,cheating while you're married,and you're you have this second lifegoing on versus man, I justdrank too much and woke upnext to someone. And I don't know whatthe hell happened.
• 23:32
  What'syour you know, that's a theretwo scenarios. I'm not saying ones, youknow, either or but soyou're talking about like a onenight stand. Yeah, one night stand thatyou know, yeah, yeah, yeah.Like maybe you blacked out orsomething or you know, I mean, I feellike I couldn't come backfrom that. Yeah.
• 23:57
  But I couldsee why some people might I mean, I couldsee why it depends on yoursituation, you know, especiallyif financially you can't leave. For us totake finances out ofit. Do you think that'sa good thing's fine.
• 24:14
  Yeah, there's acouple things you know,one is choose better.
• 24:18
  I don'tthink that's totally fair.
• 24:19
  I think that'ssemi flippant.
• 24:21
  But I getit. I think if you take thefinances out of it too, right? Becausethat is, that's harder tonavigate. I'm just saying youremotional attachment to the to yourspouse. I don't I don'tthink I think even when you'redrunk. Well, you know, they say drunkwords are true are truewords, right? But I think even whenyou're drunk, you should I you shouldknow to not do that.
• 24:54
  I thinkeven I think when you're drunk,typically is when you call or text theperson that you want tobe with, right?
• 25:03
  That's whenyou actually think about the person youwant to be with.
• 25:07
  So ifyou're drunk and do it,because if you're saying blacked out,like, they're just laying there andbasically got raped by,let's say it's a guy, and a woman justlike, had sex with him. Imean, that's different if he'spassed out or something.
• 25:22
  But if you'retalking about just like adrunk guy, I think a drunk guywould would know that he should not bedoing that. Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:30
  I think adrunk guy would knowand a drunk girl. Yeah, I'm sorry. Ishouldn't just focus onguys. A drunk girl would know sheshouldn't be doing that either. I've beena drunk girl. And I when I was ateenager, I cheated as adrunk girl. And I knew what I was doing.You know, it's not likeyou lose your drug.
• 25:48
  I mean,if you're roofied. Sure.
• 25:51
  Yeah, but thatdoesn't count. No, no, no,I think I just I think whenit comes to cheating, there's just nocoming back from it.
• 25:57
  But again, I knowthat's a very strongopinion. But I don't think it is. But Iknow for some people, itfeels that way. But I thinkyou're right. I think the the choosebetter is flippant.
• 26:08
  I think that'sinsulting to say to people,I think that you're taking the horriblething that the other person did, theaccountability of thatand putting it on the victim, the personwho is victimizing thesituation. It's a victim shaming,shifting the blade, shifting the bladeaccountability.
• 26:26
  Yeah.And that can go both ways.Yeah. If it was a man who cheated, andyou're telling these womenchoose better. And if it'sa guy, a woman who cheated, and you'retelling this guy choosebetter people mask and they,if they're not being authentic, they'remasking. Well, I was gonnago back to that is that's partof the flippancy of it is people do mask.Yeah. So it's like, I thought I waschoosing great. Thisguy. Yeah, girl was wonderful.
• 26:49
  Yeah. Andall of a sudden, they're anasshole. And they can thatcan go on for like a year or two. Andjust like what I said, it canbe fine if it's just the twoof them. But when you bring children intoit, sometimes that's what triggerspeople's narcissism.And, and like, how so what do you mean?There's a this says go aboutmen. There's the men who arefine when it's the two of them. But assoon as they have children, they do notlike that they're notgetting as much attention anymore,because the children are taking herattention away.
• 27:22
  Or maybethey're not having sex as much anymore,because the children needs,you know, her needs and allthat. So they get resentful.
• 27:28
  And they'realmost pouting and havinga temper tantrum.
• 27:33
  Becausethey're not getting the attention insteadof viewing it as we'repartners, we're a mom and dad,now we're a family, we're going to sharethis responsibility.
• 27:42
  Thisis a beautiful thing. Lookat what we created.
• 27:45
  Let's raise thischild together. No,there's men who look at it asthat's taking time away from me. And thatis narcissism. And Ithink there's a lot of men whothe women didn't know he was going to belike that, how would youuntil you had children?
• 28:00
  Yeah. Andthen the women are like, Wait a minute, Ithought you were going tobe this great dad, but you'rejust mad because you're not getting myattention anymore.
• 28:08
  And I think thathappens. And you say youcan't tell that woman choose better. Howwas she supposed to know hewas going to react like that?Yeah, yeah. That's not crazy. Honestly,that's a crazy dynamicbecause it may it got me thinkingas you were saying it, it's like, well,how the hell do you solve this at asocietal level?
• 28:27
  Whereyou go to like, I mean, there's probablypre marriage classes,right? But do they go intothis stuff? I doubt it.
• 28:35
  I don't know. Andthen there's there's people thatnaturally manipulate.You know, I think you should. Well, thisgoes back to what we'vetalked about in previous episodes.You have got to talk about how you guyssee roles before you ever getmarried. And you really haveto talk and talk and talk about itbecause you have to get areal feel from that person. Okay.Do they really want kids?
• 28:58
  Do they reallywant to raise children with me?Or are they just more into being with me?And, and the idea ofhaving kids, because that's whatyou're supposed to do.
• 29:08
  Or it's the imageof having kids.
• 29:11
  If that'swhat you want it if the womanwants that. I don't know, though, there'sno guarantees. Andthat's probably one of thereasons why there is such high divorcerate. Yeah, because I think also peoplebuy into the wedding,the fantasy of the wedding and the partyand the being marriedand, and that, that blip,that blip of this beautiful, theengagement, and the shower and thewedding and newlyweds and allof it is a blip in marriage.
• 29:41
  It is soquick. Life is marriage.
• 29:46
  Life ismarriage. That wholetime that year, whatever of the planningand the fun, that's great.That's not marriage.
• 29:58
  Yeah.You have to be able to do marriage withthe person. And marriage is hard. Andmarriage is awesome.And marriage can get ugly. And marriageis the most beautiful thingthat you will ever experience.So you better make sure you're marryingyour best friend.
• 30:16
  And youbetter make sure that you cantrust that person 100%.
• 30:19
  Because it's,it's not always easy. Andyou can't have someone that'sgoing to be like, uh, and then go cheaton you. Yeah.
• 30:29
  Well, Ithink what's interesting too,though, is it is permanent, right? If, ifthe very thing lines up, it'spermanent. And you think abouthow much you've changed and evolvedindividually over the years, as in inwithin your marriageand professionally and your externalfamily. And if you have kids, thedifferent phases you go throughand there's no, I think honestly, it'smodeled behavior in mymind, right? We've talked aboutthat where, you know, you've asked, Ithink, why, why is it, whydon't you cheat?
• 31:09
  It's like,it's modeled behavior.
• 31:10
  My dad didn'tcheat. I had uncles around.
• 31:12
  None of themcheated. My cousins,they're all still married.
• 31:16
  So I thinkthat helps quite a bit.It's modeled behavior.Look at my upbringing, though. Like mydad did cheat. Yeah.
• 31:22
  And, butit made me so serious about,I'm not, I'm not going to cheat. And myhusband better not cheat.Yeah. So I think it could bemodeled behavior, but also if there'sthat bad behavior, it'll either thatperson may model thatbad behavior or do the exact oppositebecause of the trauma it caused them. So,I mean, I just thinkthat, well, here's a point.
• 31:47
  So, cause yousaid something interesting there. Yousaid it's permanent.That's such a great marriage ispermanent. It's supposedto be marriage is permanent.And it is supposed to be. So if you wantto be married, noteveryone wants to be marriedand that's so fine. But if you want to bemarried, it'spermanent. Well, I think too,the worst talking marriage, but there'speople who have lifepartnerships that don't get marriedto your point. And I think that'sperfectly fine.
• 32:23
  It feelslike it's more common now.And that's all good.
• 32:26
  Yeah. And it's, butthose, the dynamics of those,I wonder if they're differentat all. I don't think so. It feels like,you know, it's not like,Oh, we're, we have this openmarriage, this open relationship.
• 32:37
  No, Idon't think they do.
• 32:39
  There's openmarriages too.
• 32:41
  Right. Butthose lifelong partnerships, the samerules probably apply. Iwould think so. I would thinkthey just don't feel they, it's notimportant to them to takethat next step, but they havejust as much of a authentic, permanentrelationship as people who are married.But when you look atthem, I think if you really, if peoplestart to understand orreally view it, that this is apermanent decision you're making. This isa lifelong commitment.You're going to do all kindsof things together. You really do need tomake sure you're okay.Like if obviously you shouldbe marrying your best friend and you loveyour best friend and you'rein love with your best friend,but let's look at the sexual part of it.I think for women, womenare more okay, sexuallycommitting to one person for the rest oftheir life. I think formen, some men, that permanence,they could struggle with that knowingthat they're not going tohave sex with any other womenfor the rest of their life. That's a hugedecision. I wouldassume for a guy, am I wrong?Am I wrong? Like, do you know what Imean? Yeah, I don't. Ido, but I don't know.Pondering that though.
• 34:04
  Like ponderingthat as a guy. Do you think that guysunderstand that when they're gettingmarried? Or do they think, do you thinksome guys think, well,what I would say is I think, like I'msaying is marriages andpeople evolve over time.And that's something you can look backon. It's something I couldlook back on now that we'vebeen together for so long. And it'ssomething you think aboutwhen you first get into it,but it doesn't totally resonate or sinkin. Right. So this isthe, I guess, an interestingconcept here, but at the beginning of themarriage, you have tohave a decent sex life.Should be pretty robust because that'sabout as good as it's ever going to get.And so if that's a, that's maybe the tipoff. If it's, if, if there'sa drought in the beginning,it may not be, there's a compatibilityissue probably. Forsure. It will never, ever getbetter than say the first five to 10years or something.
• 35:11
  And alot of that's because thereisn't as much stress, responsibility,life, money, family bills,all of that, the stress of it.So that time, yeah, you should be prettymuch like, Oh, rabbits. Yes.Okay. But that still doesn't go back tomy question of, do youthink that when men get married,they're consciously like, okay with,they're truly okay intheir soul. This is the onlywoman I'm going to have sexwith for the rest of my life.I don't know. I, I don't know if itreally sinks in or not, oryeah. Yeah. They're fine.You know what I mean?
• 35:56
  It's like, if youthink about it and you still jump in and,and you know, like if you know, you know,right? If it's the,if it's the one that's,if she's the one or he's the one, they'rethe one. Okay. So it's fine. And then,but you don't necessarily, you, none ofus are, I mean, we gotmarried as kids, right?
• 36:14
  Most people,we got married as kids.
• 36:17
  Right. And Idon't know. I think of, youknow, I've reached the age nowwhere if you're under 30, I think you'rea kid. Right. So I'm totallyskewed, I guess, but we didget married at 23. It was very young.Yeah. We were, we wereyoung. We were very, we have grownup together. I just wonder if, and the,if, if some men haven'ttruly contemplated that,that when you're making this decision tocommit to your wife,you're committing that she's theonly one you're going to have sex withfor the rest of your life.And I wonder if subconsciouslysome men keep that little out like, wow,there could always maybebe a moment in the future.Yeah. I think we all do hold on to like,there may be something mayhappen. Who knows?
• 37:01
  Right.As rational as that is. It's like, whoknows? Right. Right.
• 37:06
  Thatsomething could happen. Yeah.And, and so then you could have sex withother people. I'm 35years in and it's like,I don't know. Is this it? Okay. If it is,it is. If not. And yet you haven'tcheated. Yeah. Yeah.But then like, would you say the reasonyou haven't other than model behavior?What would you say is the number onereason you haven't cheated?Uh, I, I think it's, uh, um, I think it'sthe model behavior.
• 37:38
  I thinkit's just, it is what it is.Like I don't, you know, I just wouldn'tdo that. I don't, Idon't have an interest in it.I wouldn't want to do that to you. Youknow, it's start, it'san okay. Here's the, uh,I'm trying to ponder this wall andanswering it, but Ithink you start out with,I wouldn't do that to you because we'refriends. We're, we're buddies, right?You're my girl and we're buddies andwe've chosen to take thislife on together, right?And then you get into it and it's like,well, now I've got kids and I wouldn'tdisrespect their momto, you know, I just wouldn't disrespecttheir mom. I wouldn't want them to everlook down upon you because I'm an assholeand treat you like shit.That I think goes a long ways.But it's just not athing. Does that make sense?That makes sense. And I think that's veryinteresting. What you said,you wouldn't want them to look down uponme because of the wayyou would be disrespectingme by doing that. I've never thoughtabout that before.
• 38:49
  Cause Iwould more think you wouldn'twant them to look down on you for doingthat, but you're right.Kids do their respect for theirparent can also, they, they have thatmodeled behavior.
• 39:05
  And ifthe father is treating the momhorribly, sometimes the children crossthose lines too, because that's what'sgoing on in the home.There's, I don't think the kids shouldever have to come to therescue of one of their parents.From one of their parents.
• 39:23
  Now that's notto say they won't picksides if you're fighting.If we get into a good one, they may picksides. Yeah. And thatthat's just natural.
• 39:32
  Yeah.But to, I don't know if I don't knowwhere I'm going with that,but I don't know if that makessense. If to kind of, you would have,you'd be setting thetone. Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:43
  This is,I don't respect your mom enough to notcheat on her. So you'realmost setting the tone of,why do I have to respect her either?Yeah. Now I think it could flip. I thinkin certain situations, the kids canbecome more protective ofthe mother. Yeah.
• 40:01
  And, and I dothink the kids have issues with thefather when they do thateither way. But yeah, I hadn'tthought about that before.
• 40:08
  Well, let meask you this. We're talkingabout men cheating.
• 40:11
  Why dowomen cheat? It's, I don't know if it'squite a 50 50 split here,but women cheat on men too.And, and it's an issue.
• 40:20
  So I think in my,my opinion is I think when women cheat,they cheat emotionally first. I thinkthat there's somethinggoing on in the relationshipthat they're not getting from theirpartner. Maybe he's been an avoidantonce, once in many years.Maybe he is disconnected emotionally fromher. Maybe he hasn'tgiven her attention in years.He's not treating her like she's his bestfriend. He's not seeing her.She feels completely ignored. So I thinkthat in certain situations, if the rightguy comes along and sees her and is, youknow, friendly andfills that emotional void,I think that's what gets women way beforea physical cheatingsituation. I think it's anemotional cheating situation. I takeissue with that because theone thing you didn't say isfemale narcissism, right?
• 41:31
  We're sayingmen are narcissists,but women can be too. Yes,absolutely. And then everything you justsaid, all thosereasons for why the woman,the woman cheats versus the man, whycan't they apply to the menas well? They can.
• 41:46
  Okay. Theycan. No, that can be, that can go bothways where the woman ignoresthe man and doesn't acknowledgeanything that he has been doing. Doesn't,you know, make him feelvaluable or all the thingsmen want to feel from their partner. Itcan go both ways.
• 42:06
  Andthere are female narcissistswho will cheat and don't give a crap atall. But in general, ingeneral, I think men cheatphysically and women cheat emotionally.So I think that if she isnot getting her emotional needsmet, and we're talking over time, becausea woman typically will hangin there for years trying toget that. But eventually there's likenothing there. And if theright situation swoops in,and another guy gives her that attention,then that leads to aphysical cheating.
• 42:45
  Yeah. Buttypically she's emotionally cheatedfirst, because typicallywomen lead with their heart.Um, but men, I think are much easier tocheat physically. And I think there's menwho love their partner, love their wives,truly love their family, and can go cheatand feel nothing for the women they'recheating with.
• 43:13
  It's tothem, it's truly a physical act.And maybe don't even really have a lot ofguilt over it, becausetheir emotions are still tiedto their partner. But it's still somessed up because you're, you'recompletely disrespectingyour partner, your friend by cheating onher. So you think you'regiving her what she deservesemotionally, but you're still completelylying to her and betrayingher. So it's very interesting.But I mean, in general, I think womencheat to answer yourquestion, because their emotionalneeds are not getting met. Yeah, they'rebeing ignored. I just wonder too, though,I really feel like for a men too, it's,you know, there's got to besomething deep rooted therethat is not met emotionally as well. Todrive them in, it could benarcissism, it could be thatsimple, but it, and it just could be abiological thing, right?
• 44:04
  Where you liketo hunt and, you know,well, what type of thing?
• 44:08
  I don't know.What's that saying men likethe strange? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.And they want something new. Yep. Andthere's some men that I think getmarried. And I thinkthere's men who get married that don'twant to get married, you know, and so,but I think there's menthat get married. And after a while,they're like, no, I want tohave sex with someone else. I dothink there's situations like that. Yeah.And those guys should nothave gotten married.
• 44:32
  Those guysshould be lifelong bachelors.
• 44:33
  Yeah, yeah,yeah. But you never knowwhat situation family wise orwhatever. Okay. So let me ask you this.If in a relationship, likewe're talking a long-termrelationship and especially in amarriage, do you think that your partnershould be have best friendsthat are the opposite sex? No, no, Ithink that's silly.
• 44:57
  Yeah. So you don'tthink that there's evera time where the wife can have a bestfriend who's a guy or thehusband or the guy can have a bestfriend who's a girl. Do you think there'sever a situation wherethat's acceptable?
• 45:11
  To me, no,no, but I can wrap my head around thatbeing a thing. But for mepersonally, no, no, becauseyour best friend should be your partner.Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, Ikind of, you know, I feellike I've either seen this in movies likeHallmark or something, or,you know, you read about,I don't know. It feels like it exists.And I don't know if it's completelyterrible and wrong or not,you know, but at the same time, it's notmy thing. If you'retalking about a Hallmark movie,the best friend, if it's the best friend,usually they end up to getno, I don't think there's evera situation where the partner, like thehusband should have a bestfriend who's a woman and thewife should have a best friend who's aguy. What if it's, what ifone of them is gay?
• 46:02
  So the womanhas a best friend who's a man who's gay.I think that's fine.
• 46:07
  Yeah.Right. I think that's totallyfine. Yeah. Cause you, there's no threatthere. Yeah. You removedthe threat. Truly platonic.Because if you're, if you're that closewith the opposite sex,it's, there's a high chance it'sgoing to grow into something.
• 46:21
  Yeah. Andalso I go back, whateveryou're getting from that person,you should be getting from your spouse. Ithink, I think your spouseshould be your best friend.So, okay. So what about, what about justhaving friends that are the opposite sex?Do you maybe like go out with and dothings with, no, I don't think that workseither. I've thoughtabout this, right? Cause we, we talkedabout this a little bit theother day, the only oppositesex friends that I have are coworkers andtheir work friends.
• 46:57
  It is truly aprofessional friendshipand they're, I have pretty good friends,you know, female friends thatI've worked with for years thatI respect. But it's, it's wonderful thingbecause there's a natural boundary. Yeah.So it's a wonderful thing. It protectseverybody. And, and I wouldsay that you've had friendsbecause of parents of our kids friends.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:23
  So likeyou've, when it's couples,that's different. Yeah.
• 47:29
  And usually it'sbecause it's the kidsfriends, parents and all that.I'm good with that, but there's nosidebar like, Hey, let'sgo get ice cream together.Yeah. No. Well, you know, that's not out.And even in that situation, boundariesshould always be held.A hundred percent. In those situations,when you have couples hanging out,it's very easy for boundaries to getacross. I'm big on that. AndI know some people are gonnabe like, Oh my God, you know, you'rethreatened or it's not that it's arespect thing.
• 47:54
  And I dobelieve that whatever you're getting orneed should be from yourpartner. You and your partner shouldbe friends. So you should not need to befriends with the oppositesex. Now you can be friendly.And, but it's not like they're yourfriend. You're going to go dothings with them.
• 48:15
  Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. You're doing things with yourpartner or a couple situation or workpeople. Yeah. But I don'tthink there's ever, you know, like if aguy says, excuse me, Oh,well, she's just my best friend.It's like, no, no, that's a red flag inmy eye. No, there's no,no way. No, I agree.
• 48:31
  To me,that's not a thing. No, just not a thing.I think that's asking fortrouble. Yeah. So I think onceyou get together and you're in a seriousrelationship oryou're in a marriage, thatprivilege, I guess, of having friends ofthe opposite sex, likeclose friends of the oppositesex, where you do things with them, Ithink that that needs to be let gobecause your best friendis your, is your spouse.
• 49:01
  I think thathappens early on before youget married. That stuff shouldget sorted out. Yeah.
• 49:07
  But I don't know ifit always does.
• 49:10
  Yeah,maybe not. So, but that goes tohow hard do you think it is for onceyou're an adult to make friends?I have no friends, so I have no idea. Itmust be really hard. Oh,you mean of the opposite sex?No, in general, in general, like, do youthink that it's like, it's mainlywhen you have kids, it's mainly parentsof your, your kids friends?Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think you havework friends. Yeah. Like I have a group,good group of guys I work with that I,you know, I really like. Andyeah, and as we, some, you know,other people, if they've moved away toother companies to stayin touch and I think that'sall good. I don't, I don't, once a womanleaves though, I, thatto me, I don't have anyfemale coworker friends who've moved onto other things thatI've stayed in touch with.So just the guys, just the guys. Yeah. SoI think as you're going through life,you, your friends are work and likefriends from college orhigh school. Yep.
• 50:20
  Yep. And thenparents of your kids friends. Yep. Ithink that's it, right?
• 50:29
  Yeah. No, I wasgoing to add that.
• 50:31
  Yeah.It's like your coworkers, your friends ofthe, your kids parents orthe parents of your kidsfriends. Yeah. And then it is your highschool and college friendsthat you've chosen to stayin touch with and social media has helpedsignificantly withthat. Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:48
  I mean,I mean, honestly, I think they're yourbest friends still.
• 50:52
  Causethere's at least for me.And it's not like I see them, right?We're 3000 miles awayfrom most people we know. Um,maybe not that far, 2000 miles, but I,if, when you see them again, it's like,it's like an old glove and it just fitsand you just slideright in and it's all good.The ones you've chosen to keep in yourlife. Yeah. Not just, not theacquaintances and stuff,but like the actual real friends. Yeah.Yeah. And then maybe if you do stuff likebelong to like a tennis team or golfing,you know, those people become friends,but I do think that friendships as you'rean adult friendships aresituational. And to your point,the ones you made that you choose to stayin touch with fromhigh school or college,or maybe your twenties years, those areones that were truly madeand based in friendship,but then the others you meet eitherthrough work or through your kids.Well, think about that, right? So peoplethat you're friends with,and I'm not even saying best friends,just people you would consider friends,maybe they're Facebook friends. And ifyou happen to go totheir city, you hook up.Right. If they happen to be down here,you see each other,hook up, hook up, hook up.But where I'm going with that is youknow, their parents, youknow, when, so some of the peopleI know, I knew their parents, I knowtheir brothers and sisters might've goneto a family barbecue.So I know their uncles are weird, uncle,weird, aunt type ofthing, their grandparents.It's just, you know, yeah, that's a, apermanence that just last decades.But then it makes me wonder, like, thereare people who are hugeextroverts and wherever they go,they talk to people.
• 52:44
  They, if they're ata restaurant, ifthey're at a bar, if they'retraveling, whatever they're doing, theirpast time is talking topeople and like making friends.So I don't, I think that part of that isalso if you're anextrovert or an introvert,and how settled you are with the peoplein your life. And Ithink if you're introverted,you're fine with your like circle,little, your small circle,the people that you trust,and your family, you know, your family,whoever you choose.
• 53:20
  But Ithink if you're an extrovert,you're constantly collecting people.Yeah, maybe. And I think that might bethe difference.
• 53:28
  Because,and there's that neither way is right orwrong. It's just, thereare people that are alwaysmaking new friends, making new friends,making new friends.
• 53:38
  And thenthere's people that I thinkthat can cause them anxiety. Yeah. Andthey're like, No, I knowthese people. And I trust thesepeople. And I vetted these people. I onlyhave so much time in mylife. These are the people I'mchoosing to give my time to. And thatworks for them. Yeah.
• 53:54
  But for theextroverts, they're like,wherever we go, we're gonna make friends.Yeah. And so part ofme wonders if it's like,making friends as adults, it reallydepends on your fear, anextrovert or an introvert.I think that 1000% does.
• 54:07
  Yeah. Yeah. Andthen if you're a coupleand you're both introverts,yeah, then you're like, No, we're good.Yeah. And so it works. Andif you're both extroverts,I mean, I know you're an introvert. Likeone of your biggestnightmares is if we is going on acruise, you would never want to go on acruise. It will never happen in mylifetime. Because youyou're afraid you don't want to talk topeople and you don't wantto have to run into the samepeople night after night.
• 54:32
  You don't wantto make friends.
• 54:34
  It's aninteresting thing because, youknow, we were we did that boat thing. AndI did a lot of talking withthe captain when you went outwith the boys. Yeah, yeah.
• 54:47
  You had a boysweekend this past weekendwith our sons. I did a lot oftalking with the captain in the firstmate. And so you could say I was anextrovert. Right.
• 54:57
  Right.Well, okay, you're an interestingintrovert. I probably am.Because you have no desireto really spend time with anyone. Butyou're, you're like, whenyou're out in the yard working,you talk to everyone, you waved everyone.And in like in a situationwhere if you're in a smallsetting, a small group of people, youwill be one of the more extrovertedpeople. But you don't seekthat out. No. But if it happens, you'revery friendly and veryopen. But only if it's like,it perfectly falls in your lap. Iwouldn't say that. But just to be clearon the waving to everybody,my theory, my, my, my thought there is ifthey're looking, if I'm outside andthey're looking at me,I'm gonna wave. Yeah.
• 55:47
  But force theissue. Yeah, it's kind of funny. Yeah.Because then they'lleither look away or they'll wave. Yeah,yeah, yeah. Then we become friends. Butyou've been the firstto say you would be fine living on abunch of property.
• 55:58
  And it wasjust you and me and the kidsand dogs. And you wouldn't need toassociate with anyone else. Correct. Ineed women in my life.Yeah, I cherish the women in my life. Ithink women should havewomen friends. I'm a huge girlsgirl. Super pro women.
• 56:16
  And but I'mtalking like my quality friends. I'm notthe type where I wantlike 30 female friends or women friends.I have my group.
• 56:28
  I trustthem. And that's my girls that Ineed. I need that for balance. And Ithink all all women should have at leastone female best friend.And I'm not just talking where we livehere. I have, I have friends from thepast from college fromthat I've known through the years. And Icherish them. And I stay intouch with them.
• 56:49
  So I don'tthink I could go and live on a bunch ofproperty, unless I canstill have my, you know, once ortwice a month night out with my girls.And then I'd be fine. Yeah,but I have I have to have that Icouldn't be somewhere where I can't Idon't have access to go spend time withthe women in my life.Yeah. So but I know you don't really feelthat need. Well, it isdifferent as you're talkingthrough that I I'm on the phone quite abit, right? I work fromhome. Yes. And I'm on the phonemost of the day, nearly all of the day.Yeah, one after another.And, and I do start my day withtalking to the same people pretty muchevery day. And I like it, I, you know, Iget a lot out of that.So I don't know if I'm a total introvert.And I it's aninteresting concept, becausedo I when Friday night rolls around, ifwe don't leave the houseuntil never, I'm good. Right? Idon't even need to go to Home Depot orLowe's or anything.
• 57:49
  I'mgood. But I do get fulfillment,you know, however passive or active it isin just my daily life,interacting with people. Yeah,I think that your social battery is burntby Friday. Because you'vebeen on the phone talkingwith people. Yeah, yeah.
• 58:07
  Yeah. I mean,but you also are not bigon going out to dinner.I don't know. You've always hated it.Yeah, you've always pushedback. It's not anything going out.It's not something you enjoy your idea ofbeing home is, whereas through the years,by the time Friday would come, I had beenhome with the kids and Iwanted to get out.
• 58:29
  Yeah. Andyou'd been out at work.
• 58:31
  Yeah. And youwanted to stay home.
• 58:34
  And I'msure that happens to couples.Oh, yeah. Where we have opposite needs bythe time Friday comes.Yeah. And at that point,there was some battle there was battlingthe I always said I'd have to do like aPowerPoint presentation two weeks beforeI'd want to go out just to get you.So but I think that is interesting, youknow, just how friendships ebband flow, but I still go backto no matter what. I don't think thatanyone should be again, myopinion. I don't think anyoneshould be close with the opposite sex. Ijust think it's it'sinappropriate. I just I thinkit's dangerous, you know, yeah, too manyopportunities for maybesome unintended consequences ormisunderstandings, boundaries gettingcrossed. You know, I thinkthat is part of marriage isprotecting it. Right.
• 59:25
  Yeah. And if youcherish it, then you don'twant to expose it to any risk.And it's not a thing like of trust. It'sjust that. So what whatwhat are you not getting fromyour partner that you think you need fromthis other person?
• 59:41
  AndI'm not talking aboutacquaintance stuff like we went out todinner with couples.I'm talking about like,where you're on the phone talking tosomeone for like an hour. Whydo you need to talk to someoneof the opposite sex on the phone? Yeah.If it's not work related, itdoesn't make any sense to me.I cannot think of a scenario where that'sremotely appropriate orI'm not even approved.
• 1:00:03
  Right.I'm yeah, you know, but no, there's notsome I don't know, hard, youknow, died in the world typeof hardcore person here.
• 1:00:13
  No, it's totallyinappropriate. No,you shouldn't be meetingsomeone for coffee to talk with them. No,that unless it's like workrelated or school related.But no, that that's that is that's whatI'm talking about.
• 1:00:27
  Thoseboundaries have to be set.So well, if you think about that, right.So here's probably whyI'm not into it.
• 1:00:34
  When youwhen you think about that, when you firststart to get get together with someone,those are the things you do. You maybe goget coffee. You maybe goget dinner. Maybe you goget a drink. Maybe you go for a walk.Right. Those are the activities. Yeah.That you are part of thecourtship or courting phase. Yeah. Right.And then over time, thatcontinues to evolve and stuff.So if you're doing that, you're gettingsome juvenile romantic fee. You know,I'm saying it. Yes, there's somethinghappening there that's not completelyaltruistic. And thatother person could feed a part of yourego, that it could then openthe door of comparing.
• 1:01:18
  Well,this person makes me feel this way, whereyour partner could beexhausted from life, and isn'tgoing to look at you and be like, Oh,you're so wonderful, becausemaybe they just got done witha meeting for two hours or cleaning thebathroom, or who knows what's going on.So you it's not fairto compare this fresh perspective tosomebody that you're doinglife with. Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  Because whenyou're married, you're doing life. Yeah,it's a fluid, active thingthat requires work.
• 1:01:47
  And it'sawesome. But it's, it's not some, it'ssomething you have to honorand cherish. And I think that'sprobably in the vows.
• 1:01:57
  But I mean, forreal, you have it's just setting thoseboundaries as part ofthat. And that brings us back to you justnever cheat. You justcan't cheat. Yeah, it's just,it's not going to come back. It's notworth it. And I will go back, make sureif you're going to dothat, that that experience is worth yourmoney, and your time withyour children. Because that'swhat you're training, and you're losingyour partner.
• 1:02:27
  So thatexperience better be that valuable,bringing you that much joy. Because youliterally are losing yourpartner, access to your children,and at least half your money. I actuallythink your otherperspective is probably a littlebetter in that. Just move on. If you'regonna cheat, just move on.Yeah, you know, just move on.Oh, yeah, no. And the relationship. Yeah.Yeah. But there's toomany people that want both.Yeah, but they want they want the theywant, let's speak for men.They want the wife at home,that's taking care of their children orthe wife, not necessarilyat home, but the wife and themother of their children.
• 1:03:13
  And they wantto still be able to go andget some on the side.
• 1:03:17
  There's alot of men like that.
• 1:03:19
  Yeah. There's a lotof men that want both. And Ithink it amazes me that theyhave the energy to pull all of it off.Well, there is the conceptof marrying a virgin. And,you know, protecting that, that I don'tknow what the right wordwould be. But, you know,almost putting that person on a pedestalwhile you're out doing your debauchery.Yes. Right. That is athing. Oh, I think there's men who havethat. Yeah. It's called the Madonnacomplex. Why what's theMadonna? It's like the Virgin Mary typecomplex, you know, whereshe's just pure. She's the motherand the wife. Yeah. But you're going togo do all your other stuff.No, I think there's a there'sdefinitely that still goes on for sure.Yeah. And that might thatmight maybe will end in ourgeneration. I don't know if the youngergenerations men subscribe tothat at all, but I know men inour generation for sure. It's aninteresting thing just to tie it back toa generational podcast.The what's the millennials?
• 1:04:21
  Yeah. Iwonder if that's as big of athing. This is more of a boomerthing that got gets, you know, isn't asprolific in the Gen X. The Madonnacomplex. No, no, no.The just men cheating or women cheatingthe, the, you know, you mean like are themillennials cheating?Yeah. I wonder if there's a statisticalvariance between thegenerations on and how that all pansout. I don't know. I mean, I know thatsomebody is a listener.
• 1:04:55
  Yeah. Yeah. Iknow. I know just fromwhat I researched with the whole datingapps thing. I thinkthere's a lot of really sketchystuff that goes on, but I don't know ifonce they get married andsettle down and commit, if there'scheating, cheating on it, because you'reright. I mean, in Gen X, there'sdefinitely is a lot ofcheating. You know, it's funny too. You,you know, I, everybody, I don't know toomany guys that cheatin my world. It's just not a thing. Idon't think men telleach other when they cheat.I just think that I'm pretty confidentthat guys, at least the guysI work with, right.
• 1:05:30
  And we'vetalked about, well, yeah, they're right.Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:33
  Yeah.Yeah. Okay. So their it, okay. Soyeah, there's women that I've seen onsocial media that say, where are the guysthat are going to beloyal? Where are the guys that aren'tgoing to cheat?
• 1:05:45
  Where arethe guys that are going to begood husbands and good fathers? And it'sthe nerds. It's the nerds.So you're calling me a nerd.Yes. Get out of here.
• 1:05:55
  No, it's the nerds.It's the nerds. The nerds are the onesthat are going to beloyal husbands, wonderful fathers, goodproviders, because alot of them are in it.Um, and that's, you know, I'm not sayingthat the other guysaren't those things either,but a nerd is pretty reliable. You know,you can, you can trust thenerd. Although there is thatrisk of the nice guy nerd who seems likea great guy and then he endsup being psychotic or crazyor mean or thinks he's this big highvalue man. And, you know, it's likenothing like you thought,but in general, nerds are pretty safe betto marry. I'm dyingbecause I don't consider myselfa nerd, but I get the reference because Iam into nerdy shit. Ohyeah. But the best is gettingcalled a bet of a beta male the otherday. Oh yeah. I'm stilllaughing. Oh yes. I know. That'spretty funny. No, but that is, that iswhere you'll, you know,you find a lot of that, thatloyalties. I forgot that we were talkingabout that, but yeah, Idon't know. I'm not a nerd. I'ma Leo. So, you know, you're a weird combobecause you were anathlete, but then you act, but youwere a closet nerd. Yeah.
• 1:07:12
  You were takingapart clocks when you wereyoung, trying to figure outhow they worked, but you also were thequarterback on the footballteam. So it's like, you kind ofhad this weird combo, I guess, but Iwould say those, those arethe safe bet. So I mean, I don'tknow. I think we started with cheating.Um, we went all over theplace, but I think people justbefore they enter into full commitmentneed to make sure you canhandle it. Make sure you canhandle what you're getting into becauseit's a full commitment of your mind, yourheart, and your bodyand your wallet and your wallet. What wasthe other thing we weretalking about?
• 1:07:58
  You know,what's funny is, um, speaking of nerds,you got guys like, uh,what's the name?
• 1:08:04
  Bezos. Yeah.He's getting married soon.
• 1:08:06
  Uh, Zuckerbergfrom Facebook, right?He's a nerdy guy.
• 1:08:10
  And I don'tknow what his wife is or anything abouther, but he's, he's got awife and everything.
• 1:08:15
  Yeah.Some kids, um, you know, the chief nerdfinally got divorced,Bill Gates. Yeah.
• 1:08:21
  Right. Um,so it's kind of interesting.
• 1:08:24
  Yeah. No,they all, I think nerds find their,their partners, their spouses. Yeah. Youknow, you know, but youknow how you said, um,you don't know any guys who cheat. And Isaid, they're not going totell you that they cheated.Like, I don't think that's something guysbring to each other about.Is it when you wouldn't know?Cause you said you don't have any friendsthat, no, I don't thinkthey tell each other, not thatI'm aware of, but you might get the, I'vedefinitely beenaround guys that are like,that are married and there's a, there's apretty woman there, a hotgirl. Yeah. And they're like,Oh, you know, that kind of thing is like,but that's not, that'snot cheating. That's notcheating, but they may cheat. That mightbe the type. What I'msaying is the guys that,that I know I don't, I wouldn't do that.Okay. I might, I don't thinkso, but I'm not doing that.Like, Oh, look at that type of thing.Right. Yes. You know what I mean? It'salmost a projection alittle bit. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:09:24
  Okay. I could, Isee what you're saying.Like that could be intuitive ofother things. Yeah. So there's this trendgoing around right nowwhere women are sharingvoice memos or voice mails that theirexes, ex-boyfriendshave sent them or sharingrecordings of their ex going off on them.Like they've turned theirphone on during the argument.And these men are saying the mosthorrendous, abusive, disgusting,threatening things to thesewomen, horrible. And, and they're justnormal men. Okay.
• 1:10:12
  Andthen there's men coming on,making videos saying, where are you girlsfinding these guys?And the women are saying,they're your friends.
• 1:10:25
  And I do think thatthere's a whole aspect ofmen that other men don't see.I think that ugliness that is inside somemen that they onlyproject onto women becausethey feel stronger, they feel powerful orwhatever. They're being abusive.They only share that part of themselveswith the women in their life,but the men in their life never, ever seethat side to them.
• 1:11:00
  Andit's just, it could be yourbest friend. And you would never knowthat he's a horrible person to hisgirlfriend or his wife.And so it's been very interesting to seethis trend expose a lot ofthat and the shock value onmen with it. Cause they're almost actinglike these are the exception.They're like, they'remaking the up type of thing.No, they're more like, these aren'tnormal guys. Like these, these, thisisn't how guys are. Andwomen are saying, no, this is how guysare. This is how, how not how all menare. But there are alot of men like this.
• 1:11:40
  You just don't,they don't do this aroundyou. Cause you would tell them tostop. You would go off on them. They're,you know, they would neverfeel safe being like thataround their peers. They would be judged.It's kind of funnybecause I, I, you know,as you're saying that I think men areextremely fragile, veryfragile and very weak and very,you know, just sensitive.
• 1:12:05
  And it cracksme up again. The guywho called me a beta male,because I was, I commented that I couldnever do some of thethings that you've been through.Like the hysterectomy and that kind ofstuff that just makes me queasy.But I think I'm an alphamale to be able to admit that.I don't want that happening to me. I'mgood at, you know, he wasreferencing a sore shoulder.I have sore bones.
• 1:12:29
  My knees hurt attimes, but that's not aninternal thing.
• 1:12:33
  That's crazy.Yeah. So my, my point is, I think men arementally, at least emotionally, probablyunderdeveloped in many, many aspects. Sowhen some, when a womanmaybe rejects them or, you know,doesn't go along for the ride, they gonuts. Doesn't do what theywanted. Yeah, maybe that's,you know, it's, I don't, I don't know ifit's a, it's not acompliance power play per se.It's just, you bruised their ego and theydon't have the capacity todeal with it and cope withit and move on. And it's like a deep lowor something. And soit's just being like,okay, whatever, you know, you're crazy orwhatever. She didn't like myshit and she called me on it.Okay. I'm moving on. Yeah.
• 1:13:22
  Or avoiding oravoiding. Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  Which isabusive as well.
• 1:13:26
  I'm sorry.But no, it, it also, though, I thinkthere's a lot of anger management is, Ithink there's a lot ofanger issues with a lot of men and notjust throwing this onmen, but I'm sorry, the, theviolent outbursts, the aggressiveness andthis trend is about menthat are normal, regular guysand then are getting exposed. Is there aflip side of guys doing thesame because girls do thisgirls can go crazy.
• 1:13:53
  Right? Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. Not yet.
• 1:13:56
  Yeah. No,no, no, no, no.
• 1:14:00
  But it's,it is, it's disturbing.
• 1:14:02
  Like if youlisten next, I'll actuallysend you one. If you heard it.Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not justnormal. It's likereally disturbing.
• 1:14:10
  So it's,it's been very interesting.
• 1:14:12
  And that's,that brings me back to,I don't think men share that dark side ofthemselves with eachother. So you guys don'ttotally know what you're each capable ofwhen it comes to how youare with women. I think you,that's private, right?
• 1:14:32
  So I think youguys, you don't totallyknow. Yeah, probably not.How deep it can go. I think it's, I thinkit goes both waysthough, because I don't thinkit's not necessarily masculine or cool tohave your buddies knowthat maybe you're whispering,I love you. I love you. I'll see youlater. You know, that kindof thing, right?
• 1:14:57
  When you'rehanging up the phone and it's theopposite would be, I don't know, youbetter watch it when I gethome or what I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. Yeah. He isright. But the two extremes,the two extremes, it's just not somethingwe're sharing. We'redown the middle here.So wait, when men are together, do theyever talk about or sharehow they feel about the women in theirlife with each other ordo they keep that private?I don't know if we share what we thinkabout our wives, you know,it's because there's a commonunderstanding if you're married andyou're not out bitching about the wife,you're, you probablylike her. Yeah. Right.
• 1:15:42
  If someone'scomplaining, though, I don'tknow if I've come across that inyears. Maybe I've been in situationswhere people I've worked with are knowntheir wives are fairlycontrolling in a sense, or that's atleast the perception.
• 1:15:59
  Andit's like, well, when you comein home, why aren't you home? You know,you don't do that to me.So it's not an issue. Yeah.But there's people like that where, youknow, it's, but the flipside is girls night out. I'm allfor it. Go have fun. I'd prefer you to behome semi early so you don't wake me up.But I've come home at two in the morningbefore, just to be clear.Not in years though.
• 1:16:25
  Oh, notin years. But there's guys who don't liketheir wives. Oh, yes. Iknow. And there's women whodon't like their guys going. Yeah. Sothere's, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.That's probably where itgets exposed. I would say, but as women,we still share, but not likesuper deep. I think you reacha point in your marriage probably whereyou do keep some thingsprivate. I would say mostthings. You keep most things private.Like we keep pretty mucheverything private.
• 1:16:53
  Butso yeah, I think the longer you'retogether and the older you get, unlessit's an abusive situation,extreme situation, even with women, Ithink we still keep most things, youknow, unless there'ssomething serious going on. But with yourclosest girlfriends, youstill may share, you know, adecent amount. So but I don't know if menI don't, I don't know.
• 1:17:16
  I don't maybethere is groups of menwho do talk and share about all that typeof stuff. But it probablyjust depends on the people.Yeah, it definitely not the nerds. Yeah.No, we're talkingcomputers, sports and weather.Again, this is why youshould end up with a nerd.Then he'll make a hydroponic garden andtalk to you about thatfor hours. Yeah.
• 1:17:40
  But yeah,I think that that probably covers all ofour little thoughts andramblings on cheating.On boundaries in relationships andmarriage when it comes to being friendswith the opposite sex.Adult friendships in general, you know.And again, cheating is a no.You know, the last thing I will say is Ithink this is it's not a sense of asensitive of a topic forus. But it's just it's a sensitive topic.It's pretty serious, right?And it's devastating.
• 1:18:16
  Whenyou're in that situation, I don't thinkwe're making light of it.It's just something.
• 1:18:21
  Yeah.Yeah. No, cheating is devastating toeveryone. It's like throwinga bomb into the relationship.And if you have a family into the family,it just there's just somany casualties that happen.It goes everywhere.
• 1:18:38
  And you just can'treturn back to normal.So it's heartbreaking.
• 1:18:42
  Iheartbreaks for the people who've had togo through that honestly.So yeah, it's one of the reasons I wantedto talk about it.
• 1:18:50
  You know,share, share. So yeah, again,we would love to hear from you. And wehave some exciting guestscoming up. Over the next couplemonths, we're going to be having a lot ofof really cool episodes.
• 1:19:05
  So keep youreyes out on that one.That'll be just boom, boom, boom comingup. So we will see you next time. Bye.