Latest / Theatre Life with Ben Kercheval / Evah Destruction: On Eating Pig Brains and Being Crowned Champion of Dragula: Titans

Transcript

Evah Destruction: On Eating Pig Brains and Being Crowned Champion of Dragula: Titans · Theatre Life with Ben Kercheval

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've had to eat pigs' brains.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've had to staple myself with like a staple gun.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I had I was almost drowned on Titans 1.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh oh, I've been electrocuted with a shock collar for a lie detector test.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I um let's see.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you must really love the game.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like I'm a competitor.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love to compete.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love a chance to prove people wrong.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love a chance to grow.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is like addictive competing.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_05: Hey everybody, welcome back to theater life, a podcast for theater people by theater people.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Ben Kirchoville, and my guest today is a nationally recognized drag queen whose persona, Eva Destruction, was a three-time contestant on the Boole Brothers Dracula series.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_05: And over her last two appearances on the Dracula Titans spin-off, Eva Destruction became one of the most recognizable and regarded contestants, culminating with a season two victory that saw her named my favorite thing ever, Queen of the Underworld, in 2025.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_05: Elsewhere, her recent performance in Hedwick and the Angry Inch, presented by Austin Rainbow Theatre, earned her a nomination for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Musical at the 2026 Austin Theatre Critics Awards.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_05: Having carved out one of the most prominent followings in the world of drag, it is my distinct pleasure to welcome to the Theatre Live podcast Alexander Surian, aka Eva Destruction.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_05: Alexander, welcome.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, thank you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: My goodness, what an introduction.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I try to pump everybody up when we get started.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: These are good vibes.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Good vibes on the Theater Live podcast.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's great.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just to clarify, uh it was Titans season two that I won.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Season two winner was bitch puddin on the normal season.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: But to for the listeners, uh Titans two is like the all-star season.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the second season of that that I won recently.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did I not say Titans?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just I just wanted to specify.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's all.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_05: No, absolutely.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_05: All right, Dragula Titans, season two.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: Perfect.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_05: What was the other name?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_05: Bitch Pudden?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So uh in the list of winners, we have Vander von Odd, season one, Bitch Pudden, season two, lander Landon Sider on season three, when I originally appeared, and then you have Saint uh uh for Resurrection, you have Dali on season four, Victoria Elizabeth Black on season one of Titans, and then you have Asia Consent, season uh season uh six, uh, and then five was um neahu X.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then yeah, season seven's on the horizon.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like uh we're getting another season uh come this fall.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So goodness gracious, I know we're collecting them.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: What an incredible group of names there.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: I I'll start there.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_05: I love Eva Destruction.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: That's such a wonderful name.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_05: And doing the research on you, I know you got it from a friend, and it seemed like it was pretty quick.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like, hey, I I really love that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: What is it about that just completely punk rock?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: Because it sounds like you should be in the Sex Pistols or something.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: What is it about Eva Destruction that just instantly you were going, Yes, that's it?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Eva didn't start punk rock either.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like at first, well, so I kind of tiptoed my way into it by doing um a lot of open mic nights and talent shows that were featuring drag talent uh you know for free.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever wanted to perform, you could do little audience applause contests, and then if you won, you got a little uh weekend feature with the main cast at the bar that I was uh trucking out to in Marietta, Georgia at the time.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um it it was kind of like a I had to conform to a certain style to be uh marketable.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, Atlanta, Georgia was very um, it's just a very glamorous, heavy city where it's like if you're a drag queen, they're very big on female illusion and female impersonation and things like that.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you followed the rubric and the rules of that, which is pads, uh body uh rhinestones, big wigs, jewelry, etc.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: gowns.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_05: More almost more of a pageantry type.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Very pageant heavy city, and I have a lot of respect for it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: I did pageants myself, but uh it's it's like at a certain point, um, you know, uh I said this in another interview, but there was a time where you start to really think about your name.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And with Eva Destruction, it's like I kind of coined on the whole thing where people saw me as versatile as a performer and I was a bit of a chameleon.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I could fit into every uh shape, uh, every genre that I put myself into, or what people asked of me, whether it was a theme or whatever.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, like I I prided myself on a lot of character performances where I would take on a certain character that I invented, or I'm cosplaying, or something like that, and it would come with a a mix or like an act with it, and it just it it really helped me get on my feet as not only a performer but a well-rounded entertainer.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and from there, I think it burnt me out a little bit uh with the one way of performing that I knew.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then I kind of broke down the whole ideology and the symbolism of my name.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, somebody on social media was just like, your name is Eva Destruction, go destroy something.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not living up to like what your name represents, and that's something that's shocking, attention grabbing.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what, you're right.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at the Boole Brothers Dragula, I was like, oh my god, like they're finally putting alternative drag on the map, like in a bigger way, kind of like what Drag Race was doing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd become such a quick fan of the show, and it was kind of like season three that I originally appeared on on Dragula was kind of like my introduction into coming into my own.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And while some people may say, like, oh, why would you change yourself for a show?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't so much what happened.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I grew into my own with the show.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of allowed me to have the freedom to represent my art and my persona in its fully realized form with everything I had always wanted to do, but was too afraid or too um I felt too limited to represent her in that way because I felt like no one was gonna buy it, no one was gonna maybe it wasn't it wasn't gonna sell in the way.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't gonna it wasn't gonna sell as easy as it could have.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I just um yeah, I I threw myself into the deep end and it it took a second, but I think by Titans 2 or Titans 1, I think it really started to take form with not only my look, but also my self inside, and then by Titans 2 is when I was fully realized with not only my presentation, but the strength within to use my voice and my confidence and who I want people to see me as, and that's polished, but also deliver you an amazing, eye-catching, unforgettable show or presentation, whatever it could be.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_05: You auditioned for Dracula, you send in a tape, or they it's how does that how'd you end up on the show?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I did not audition actually, and this is something that I wasn't really able to talk about as freely, but the NDA for season three is done, so I I'm pretty much able to talk about this.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_05: But sweet, let's scoop it, let's go.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um, season three, uh, the Boulays asked me.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they they asked me to be a part of the show, or they asked me if I was interested.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time I was um in town uh when they approached me, I was in town filming America's Got Talent.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we uh those of you that know, I the that did not go well.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um it again, that was another opportunity that I was asked to do, and I did the thing and it didn't work out, and it is what it is.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: But um the Boulays asked me, and I was uh also in between the other contract of auditioning for season 11 of RuPaul's Drag Race at the time.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I was caught in between two contracts of potential things that could have been but didn't work out.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So then December of that year, this was 2018, um, I sent them an email because I spoke to another entertainer, uh Vander, who was the winner of season one.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: She was the creative director slash um set builder of season three.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Where are y'all at with casting?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, honestly, we only have three people confirmed right now.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Auditions open early or in the year, like, what do you mean you only have three people confirmed?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's crazy.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then um I sent them an email and they were like, sign this NDA.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then by January, I was confirmed, and then yeah, by February I was being flown out to LA.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_05: So when you look at the evolution of starting out on Dracula and then going through two seasons on Titan, Titans, tell me about the evolution of Eva as not even really just a character, but the way you describe her, it's there's a there is a realness to her.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_05: She's you, you are her.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: So what's what's the evolution of your confidence in slipping into her skin and just the fully realized, more polished version of her versus when she's starting out as just a little dragula baby?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so season three had a lot of elements of what I knew at the time to be my version of alternative drag.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that was all of the reference, all of my influences.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I fixated a lot on like Disney villains and horror movies that I had seen, and just a lot of uh artistic uh influences uh that raised me.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then by Titans one and two, you start to step into the the brain of um, first of all, being able to adapt really easily to certain situations, and uh you've been on the road, you've been around the world, like you've seen a lot of things, you've been exposed to so much, and you've you know shoveled through so much shit to get to where you are at that point.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So by season one of Titans, that's when I really felt more confident because compared to season three, it's like night and day difference of what I learned in that amount of time and what I was able to apply to my drag, whether it's um more raw elements and creativity and making my own stuff, or uh having, you know, been around the alternative drag community enough to realize that it there's more outside of just my front door um to see and to experience and to listen to, and you know, but then by Titan season two, it was kind of an amalgamation of everything.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like such a like homecoming experience where it's like I've been traveling on the endless road, like going through so much and working my ass off, like through bars and clubs and theaters, and you know, uh dealing with people who don't know how to pay you on time, or people who take advantage of your persona and like your image, or chicken shaped gigs to incredible opportunities like going through COVID and doing drag during COVID and all types of experiences.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think it kind of just expanded with uh you know how I wanted Eva to look, how she I wanted to present her, and um also what I had to say too, because what I've had to say has also evolved.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, before it was kind of like I don't I don't want to make waves, I don't want to stand out and cause controversy or whatever.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's kind of like no, as a pillar, because once you are a well-known entertainer and people recognize you, you really do become one of the pillars of the community, and you become somewhat of a D-list celebrity in your space.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's there's a responsibility to that, and there are things that you need to stand upon and you need to speak up about.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we learned a lot in 2020 with Black Lives Matter, and from there it snowballed into so much more that we had been ignoring, and we have been um neglecting as well with the Me Too movement with uh trans rights, with uh Palestine, with you know, Ukraine, ever like all these political and sociopolitical issues.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and as entertainers, it's our responsibility to make sure that people know that we are there to speak with them and for them and learn and be not just these fun-looking people that perform for five minutes at a time at a bar and then hit the door.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, whenever whenever I'm on the microphone, I always have something to say.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I use my voice to empower or just inspire and also just tell people hey, these aren't things that should be ignored.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you have people in your community that you need to look out for, and it's not just about ourselves all the time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: You're representing a a marginalized part of society, and at a time when there is a lot of politicizing and discussion and discourse about the queer rights and and your and your place in society, and so there's this element of well, if this is the conversation that's gonna be made about us, we also need to be able to have a seat at that table in that conversation and be able to have our voices heard.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And Titans One was kind of like um that moment uh that happened more recently towards like 2020, because this was around 2022 that we filmed, and there was a lot of drama on season one of Titans.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was a very controversial season and not in the best way.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a very tough season to film.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Season three was even tougher to film for those that know.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_05: What about for the people who don't know?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Tell them you don't have to give us all of them, but just give us what's people the people that don't know, uh season three just had a lot of big personalities that had uh, you know, their own soap boxes to stand up on and you know scream to the void.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um it it it wasn't that a lot of us didn't agree with what was being said, it was just how do we make this entertaining and also how do we also make this a space in which someone can say something, but also keep the the universe of the show, keep the story going, etc.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of layers to reality TV because as soon as somebody starts soapboxing or somebody starts grandstanding on business uh with whether it's their own agenda or something that's going on, it sometimes gets twisted into something that looks annoying or something that's obnoxious or something.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there are some people that unfortunately fell victim to stuff like that where they meant well, but then it gets twisted and formed into something that looks obnoxious and overbearing or domineering, etc.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And even like the there comes into the conversation duplicitness too that comes into the reality TV circle of when you present yourself a certain way off camera or behind people's backs, but then you act a certain other way, like in front of the cameras.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's something I really had to learn, especially with myself, because my personality is very much um like I wouldn't say I have the most profound personality for reality TV because I have a certain way of communicating, and sometimes you have to prepare what to say so you know how to say it properly, and that comes with being neurodivergent.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you have ADHD, you're autistic, whatever.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because we're taught to think before we speak, or else the first thing that pops into our head isn't going to be as eloquent or well spoken or clear.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: But with all this being said, this is what I learned to be even better for myself, and you know, going forward on Titans 2, that's kind of what I took in, and it it became a thing where you're not just a face, you also need a voice, and you need to have an inner strength to know how to approach these situations, and I felt just a little more prepared for that season, which armored me with the with the skills to, you know, speak up a little bit more and also know how to speak a little better.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, with Titans too, I got thrown into um, you know, these situations where I had to make if not more tough decisions than everybody else, because with success comes, you know, hardships and the boolets are sadistic and they will make sure you work for the successes you have on the show, but also sometimes you've got to pay the price for the successes too, because heavy is the head that wears the crown on that show.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when I would win challenges, I I won two challenges specifically on Titans 2 that came with terms and conditions.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you won this, but now you've got to vote for somebody to be in the bottom, or you won this challenge, sorry spoilers, but you now have to eliminate somebody on the spot.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is TV gold because it creates friction, it creates tension, and I I set out to, you know, play a tough game.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to, you know, evolve my character on the show to be tougher.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted her to present more uh cutthroat because I am always kind of like dubbed as the uh occasionally funny wallflower that gets along with everybody, that minds her own business and does as well as she can.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then Titans 2, I was sick of it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is my third time going on the show.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's time to turn up the heat.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of it kind of worked out that way, but I think ultimately I had some nice gaggy moments and I was able to give somebody the chop and uh there was also there's also some times in Dracula where you get um you have to do like fright feats, which are like little little uh tests of strength, uh by eating something really gross or enduring pain or something.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: For example, we had a Gothic bride challenge for uh Titans 2, and if you won the fright feet, which was you had to eat through a slice of wedding cake with mealworms in them.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Fear Factor?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, I tell people Dragula is like drag race if you mixed it with Fear Factor and horror movies.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's basically what it is.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've had to eat pigs' brains.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've had to staple myself with like a staple gun.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I had I was almost drowned on Titans 1.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh oh, I've been electrocuted with a shock collar for a lie detector test.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I um let's see.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you must really love the game.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like I'm a competitor.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love to compete.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love a chance to prove people wrong.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love a chance to grow.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is like addictive competing sometimes.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um let me ask you something then.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: So there must be, I would imagine anyway, a lot of love for the Boole brothers and what they've done for alternative drag.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: If you keep going back, and and I know we just talked about the the most insane versions of this, but there has to be something in either the relationship that you have with them or the way that that you've interacted with them over the years that makes this all worth doing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, they have to be a focal point for alternative drag to to keep going and doing all of that, don't they?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um I'm not gonna sit here and say that they are spooky RuPaul.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna say that they have paved the same way that RuPaul has in her legacy.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: However, the Boole Brothers uh did something that was pretty uh bold at the time because the Dragula started in 2016 and it originated as a party um that included like a show and then um they would pull people on stage to do what was like extermination challenges or fright feats on stage live, and there would be like a winner at the end of the night.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So then they turned it into a reality show.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And given their history of what I know and understand, it's like they have, you know, shoveled through a lot of shit just like the rest of us in the punk community, and they have endured like they they kind of give a lot of that experience to the contestants when they go on the show.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, it's not the most glamorous setting.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's like it's very rough around the edges, and sometimes you have to suffer through the heat, the cold, uh, not the most preferable conditions to get ready or whatever.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: It it is what it is, and we go on the show knowing that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that we sign up for because we want to prove ourselves.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of us secretly have um mommy or daddy issues because there's a there there's a part of us that do come back because we want to get that stamp of approval from the Bouleys or even the general public, or uh, you know, launch our careers.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's all all types of motivations for why we do this.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_05: So surprise, surprise.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_05: People who perform have validation things that they need.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's who am I?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think there's a lot, I think there's a lot of people that have affirmation as their love language, yes.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, um, me included, but um it's like takes one to no one, baby.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I mean with the boolets, like for me, my my relationship is we're we're we're great colleagues.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like um I I text Swan every now and then, or Swanthula, sorry, uh one of the boolets, Drake Morda, and then Swanthula.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, we catch up, and I always, you know, always pop in and congratulate them on their accolades and their successes with the shows, whether they're nominated for awards or you know, they get big opportunities that, you know, we haven't seen uh them get before.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's friendly, and uh but they the way they cast the show too is a lot of the early seasons were made up of people that they were previous fans of, you know, like they um we get a lot of the big personalities because they've been watching them for a long time and they want to see what they can do on their show.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this this whole show isn't even exclusive to primarily just punk artists.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can be a glamorous girl, but it's how you present yourself and apply your drag to the challenges, is what they look for.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be a glamour girl and want to go after Dracula, but they want to know that you're an ice cold bitch too, because they want to see you tough as nails and be able to endure what they throw at you and give some good TV at the same time.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there's it's it's a cat it's kind of a catch-22 type situation, but they take anybody, whether it's race, gender, drag representation, like whatever.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like they like we are welcoming of all types of people.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but with drag race, it's like, you know, you have you've seen some stipulations about like, oh, like they don't cast drag kings.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they should make their own show.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they do now.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: They it took years, but now drag kings have their own show.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's called King of Drag.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, there was this whole thing of with trans people uh competing on Drag Race, but then Dragula was the uh the first show to have more people of those backgrounds, of those um genders and representations and etc.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the Boulets um have built a tiny empire of you know monsters and people who have been on the show, but just fans who want to see more alternative representation, whether that is scary or just incredibly artistic, too, because Dragula prides itself by showing um such artistry and it's it it's cinematic.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_05: I I was I was going through the photos of it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_05: Pestilence, death, war, famine.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, what you did that was at the end, was that in episode 10?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that was my finale.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was my finale, yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_05: I I was looking through it and I was showing my wife like look, this is you see Alex at the Bastrop Opera House.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna have a second part of this episode where we talk more about community theater.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: But I said, This this is Alex that you're seeing, and I'm blown away by the cinema of it.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_05: So for the general viewing audience who does not get to see the process of that, how do you get from point A to the runway?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, I mean, so I'm gonna speak in terms of like referring to like season three.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like there there are times where you can outsource to other people to help you like create the things that you need to create, whether it's 3D printing, sewing, whatever.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but with with Titans 2, there was a lot of elements in which um I really applied myself and learned new skills.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like with Titans 1 was the introduction of that because that was when I saw on season three what I was up against.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if I was to come back, I was like, I'm going to really come at this the way it needs to be approached.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you gotta raise the game raw talent, whether and and I didn't want to just be a good performer, I want to be an a well-rounded renaissance person that is multi-skilled, a Swiss Army knife of drag, and that's learning to style hair, make costumes, embellish, uh, distress, uh paint, whatever.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And Titans 1 was kind of an introduction.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: I made a lot of stuff for that.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then Titans 2, like I had an agenda of being like, okay, normally I get stuff commissioned uh and I love featuring people's work.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love paying people their worth, etc.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: But also I have to have a hand in everything I'm wearing because if it doesn't represent me 110%, it isn't me.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just wearing it off the rack and I'm just wearing it straight out of the box.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not how I want to do that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't represent my art.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_05: So it's totally it's sort of the whole like it wears you versus you wear it type of thing.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I set up a whole pop-up workshop in my dining room.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: My table was cleared, I had a sewing machine, I had racks, I had a tool shelf, I had my airbrush machine, I had my heat gun, I had my war blood, I had my uh my EVA foam, I was working myself, like I was oh my god, like I was a skeleton by the time we had to film because I was so stressed, and um the time to prepare and things like that, like it it just really wears you down.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I applied myself so heavily to this season and making my own things, like the villain uh runway that we did before the finale.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I made everything head to toe with my own two hands.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and um it was just a lot of new skills that I wanted to learn and apply and start like that's part of the evolution is just you know seeing where you can do better and be better at and do the thing and spend hours uh doing it or perfecting it or learning, and it's not the best time to learn new skills because you're it's you're racing against the clock sometimes with like creating things, but it it was so worth it though.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was so worth it because like again, it's like you you face challenges where you get outside the show and you know you're in a production of anything goes and the costumes fall through at the last minute and none of the girls have wigs, and then you're like, Oh, I know how to style hair-ish, and I can give me all the wigs you have.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can style all of them in a week.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it, and then they're ready for show.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like stuff like that where you have those skills for other things, and yeah.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, when when there is no mistaking when talent meets work ethic in one-to-it's it's so visible.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_05: You when it's it's it's the whole idea of preparation.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_05: That when you come in and you come on the runway and you've honed in your skills, you've put in the time, you've gotten better, and this will have been the third time that you've done the show with them, they know what you look like on Dragular vs.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_05: Titans 2.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_05: It's unmistakable.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that probably has to play a huge role in in winning in that success.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_05: Because you know, you you already have the skill, but when you uh put it all together, it's undeniable.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_05: I Well, I just I mean, it's I and I look, I'm uninitiated.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_05: You know, this is this is outside of of an area that I have a lot of expertise, but I also know craftsmanship when I see it.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's craftsmanship is craftsmanship across all artistic mediums.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean uh the thing is too, is um because there's some some some cases where you can clearly see when somebody's had something made by somebody else, right?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's the stipulation of like, oh well, she bought all her drag.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if if you have the means, buy your drag, but if you don't put something on that that makes it you, to me, that's where you start to lose me.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, because like sure, you can get something, it is gorgeous, it's stunning, but it's also like, is this a part of your silhouette?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a part of your trademark?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a part of your character?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: If so, but if but then there's a part of me being like, well, what where where does this represent you truly?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is your brand?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: What is your shape?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Who what is your essence?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, all of these runways, ever since the beginning of my journey, season three, I learned a lot.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Titans one was when I said, everything that I sketch on paper is what I'm wearing, and it has to be that way to the very last detail.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And by Titans 2, it like it stayed that way.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh like everything that you saw in the finale that you referred to, that was all a part of my universe, my brain.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Of I wanted all these characters to look like they're part of like a video game, like uh collection of bosses or a trading card set.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted them to live in the same universe, and I spent hours and days and weeks just like imagining these four horsemen and thinking about you know my references from DD and how much I love DD, and you know, my my pestilence came straight from the marshy bogs of you know the Fe realm.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like you you get into hags and witches and um fungus and mold and uh growths and um bugs and rot, and then you go to the deepest part of a dungeon, and that's the warrior that's waiting to add you to their collection of blades and blood and you know viscera that they pride themselves in collecting those trophies and stuff, and then you go to famine, who is this corrupted uh sorceress who used to be a ruling queen who was corrupted by her own magic, and now the magic has spilled out and she is desolating a once thriving kingdom, and then death is the most glamorous representation of what I believe is the form of death that is welcoming, is somber, but is taking you into her arms and weeping over the loss, but knowing that it starts a life anew, whether that's reincarnation or you are free from your pain.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was inspired by like death, especially.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I think about um like Norse mythology, and uh, you know, you have Valhalla uh and then you have hell.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Valhalla to me is kind of like a never-ending hell in the negative sense to me, because it's like people think, oh, uh you're being claimed to fight uh for the rest of eternity for this never like that.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a warrior's death, so now your soul is claimed to fight the great the good fight uh for honor and strength.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, I'm like that sounds like absolute chaos and suffering.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And with hell, it's like your soul is released, you're able to move on and you know, be added to the sea of souls and whatever.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's where you get like in Greek mythology, you have Charon, which is where my death was inspired by.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she is the harbinger, or they're the harbinger of souls to ferry them across the you know the river Styx.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that just felt so beautiful and so symbolic.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I had a lovely time performing as her on the Titans 2 tour, and it really just um was the cherry on top of that whole uh finale, and I felt so confident um going into that and filming that and knowing uh how prepared I was and um to see it all come together and knowing all the hard work, the learning of the skills, the applying those skills, etc.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it really was just such a beautiful close to this chapter in my life where now I have the freedom to do the things that I want.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now I get to look back and say, you know, I I did something that I worked years for, and I did a lot in my 20s.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: I doing so much already in my 30s, and it's like, you know, with Dracula, like the the journey doesn't end because now, you know, I get to maybe appear as a judge or I get to, you know, occasionally appear and have, you know, whatever opportunities come knocking, but um it it really uh fills me with pride knowing that you know I finally did the thing that I set out to do.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I I'm sure it does feel great.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_05: And the other thing though is those are fully realized, well-crafted characters that are still you, right?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's the the art that is closest to your heart is the the the truest kind, right?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_05: And and that's something that you know we've talked uh on this podcast before with other guests, it's a recurring theme is is authenticity.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_05: That whether it's an audience or whether it's a judging panel, people can see through BS.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_05: They know what's they know what's real and and what's not, and when I when I see those four horsemen, even though they're all separate and they're they all have their own thing, they're still a through line.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_05: They all still feel very connected to who you are and and and the art that you're putting out there.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh to give context to the listeners, um the finale final runway was the four horsemen of the apocalypse and what that means to you in that theme of each singular horseman pestilence, war, famine, and death.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh to to go off of what you just said though, um that that right there really answers the question of evolution, and that to me is where it's like I did not feel like I I I would say I went through the biggest identity crisis of my life uh for years, and like I would say well over a decade.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: I did, I just did not have a concept of who I was, even as Alex.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and with Titans 2, it just stepping into it, I said, I'm here for me.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love I love my partner very much, but this it became a thing where I need to drop everything happening outside and inside my life so I can focus truly on me unabashedly, unapologetically, because I've been so used to people pleasing and uh living for others or for the sake of others, and uh uh, you know, always thinking about what other people are thinking about me, things like that, blah blah blah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And season two was kind of like where it came to a head where it's like this is me being as selfish as I know how to be.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I did not want to do anything that did not feel authentically me, or like, because there's things that you can adjust per, you know, the challenges and the looks and whatever, but at the end of the day, all all the runways, whether they were received well or not, it still was me, and they were it was everything that I believed in with my entire being.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: There was not one thing that I wore or did that I said, Oh, I shouldn't have done it that way.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Titans 1, season 3, plenty of that shit.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: I look back and I said, Man, what the hell was I smoking?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: What was I thinking?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: But Titans 2, no, it was a true representation of you were ready for this and you believed and knew what you needed to do, and this is a sign that you know exactly who you are now.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and you have to have those early mistakes and those early failures to to get to to where you are, and to to distill it down uh to a singular phrase F it, just do it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you you can't uh uh uh dictate uh what someone's gonna think about you, whether they're gonna like you, whether they're not gonna like you.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_05: It's and I've said this before on here, it's why I don't care what audiences think.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_05: Whether you win the season or don't win the season, or the challenge, or you don't win the challenge, or you get the feedback's good or not good, it's uh you've put out a version of yourself that you're comfortable with, and that is hard.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_05: It is hard to do that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_05: And it is accomplishment in and of itself.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um I wanna uh pivot real quick.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_05: The tour of terror that you did after that, is that the longest uh like continuous tour that you've done?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah how many s how many cities was that?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was about twenty.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: 20.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like what?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_05: Two and a half months?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_05: Three months?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_05: Something like that?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was a little over.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like about like a month and some change.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my goodness.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh yeah, there was there were like uh because we did this all by bus.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we started in New Orleans.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we flew to Nashville to rehearse and to see what the set was gonna look like because they rented out like a warehouse where they set everything up.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's where the bus was, and then we drove to New Orleans to start everything, and then from there it was towards Atlanta, then Florida to Orlando, and then we drove up to like the East Coast to like New York, uh uh then to Chicago, Pennsylvania uh yeah, like Boston, Pennsylvania, uh, then to Chicago, and then we kind of did like a downward U shape where we ended up in like Missouri, then Texas, and then uh Arizona, uh California, and then uh, you know, Portland, uh, and then uh Seattle, and then we curved over to like Utah, and then we ended in Denver.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, there were there were days where it would it would always happen in three chunks where it's like uh three different cities in a row, maybe one day off, and then you're doing another three right after that.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and in the beginning it was split up where two cities and then maybe two days off.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it's like when we're done with the show, we're immediately on that bus, or we are um waiting around until we pack up, and then there's little time to really enjoy uh the cities at least for what they are and what they provide.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's the job, you know.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: You uh it's it's really hard.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta stay on top of your body and like keeping it well oiled and hydrated and fed.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And mind you, like the they they provided plenty for us to you know to have and um the touring company um obsessed, like they they they're great.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love the crew.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um shout out to Audrey and um Elise.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I love those gals.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I've worked with them before.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Titans one tour that we did um in 2023, I believe.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I had a great taste of what that crew was like and how professionally it was ran.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then my last tour before that was 2020, before everything shut down.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: We went to Europe for the season three tour.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh that was oh gosh, that was like London, Manchester, Dublin, uh Glasgow, Berlin, Paris.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that was unforgettable.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the the COVID I caught after that was also unforgettable.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's fine.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: We Yeah, you're here.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: We lived.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're still here.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: So but um but the tour tour is what I live for though.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love uh the like we yes, um because it is hard.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy being away from home for that amount of time, but it was around the same time I was gone for filming uh each season, and um I I'm I'm one of those people that need occasional social interaction, but also I'm good in solitude.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm a very like I'm a Taurus, like I I very much am uh in tune with my own solitude and what that all entails.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um no, the the work, the schedule, the routine of it, uh it goes hand in hand with theater.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it keeps you on your toes, it keeps you needing to do some kind of job actively.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And mixing drag, it's like it makes the process a tad more exhausting because you're wearing things that your body isn't supposed to be wearing for that long, but the work is good and it's a lot of fun just touring, doing the same show 20 times and finding little ways to change it up, you know, just like what we do in theater.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly what I do with drag.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you do the same numbers for years and you find different ways to make them different every time or whatever.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: But with tour, you bond with your cast members and with the boulets, it's a great opportunity to also see them out of drag and kind of hang out sometimes, maybe have a dinner with them on occasion.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's just such a nice I I had a great experience with our tour.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was so much fun, um, had its own problems, but nothing that we couldn't handle and you know, overcome.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime they want to call me for a tour, I'm right there.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to do it again.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the best.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_05: There's I I think too, when you're a professional performer, there is something about a pressure cooker situation where it when you're doing it with everyone else, and everyone else is in that pressure cooker situation that is difficult on one hand, but in some ways it's almost like you'd rather not ever be doing anything else.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_05: You know what I'm saying?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, there's something about how like the routine of it and the repetition and the constant go, go, go.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's a part of me that dreads moments like that where the anticipation of it is like, oh my god, I'm gonna be so tired, oh my god, I'm gonna be so sore.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you're in the middle of it, it's like you're on and you're like, let's just do it, like we're doing it, like we're in the middle of it, let's go.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it's over, it's like you're like, oh my god, finally a break.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: But then the post-show depression kicks in hard.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_05: You've just been pouring all of this time and the energy and everything into it, and then it's over.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's done, and the people who were in every moment of your life for months on end.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_05: It's how does an experience like that compare to doing something like Hedwig and the Angry Inch where you're actually one of three people.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_05: You're rehearsing, but you're also having to give other people the opportunities, and it's it's a shit it's more of a shared experience than you going out and having the full autonomy of what you're doing.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, Hedwig.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we had about a month to put that show together, and it was one of the like Which is not a lot of time.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, and it was the hardest role I'd like anything, like theater, performing, even in drag, like I've never endured something that difficult before because it's a one-woman rock show, and even Yitzak, the other person, because we all I it was just me and Yitzhak.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: I also had to um we we did like a pre-recording of uh some of Tommy's lines for Tommy, the the the ex.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um just because like I said that there's a lot on my plate already, and for this to be successful, let's turn Tommy into like something that I'm reacting to where he's talking to me, and it's a recording that I am responding to.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because right now his is even more monologues that I have to learn.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can we please simplify this?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: I will never ask for anything ever again.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so with even with Yitzak, it's like Yitzak doesn't talk like if like just maybe two or three times, but Hedwig is straight through, and um the the difficulty of that and m managing all those roles and the responsibilities of the lines, the the the 12 songs I had to learn and the choreography and the the costume changes in less than a minute, uh in some cases, um it didn't feel hard once we got to the shows because the the the prep beforehand it feels like it's an impossible task and you're dreading it, but then when you know it in your body and your mind, you're just like it's like second nature, yeah.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Where you know, when you're talking to a choreographer about you know, anticipation of something, of the the moment that is coming right after what you're doing right then and there, think about that, and it's like it's in you, so it's less hard.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know, it kind of just goes hand in hand with that where it it feels like it's going to be arduous and a lot, but then it ends up being really easy and enjoyable, and but Hedwig was really difficult.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: It took a lot for me to find where I s where I lived in with Hedwig.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and we can talk more about this uh for sure, but um with the theater discussion, but um Yeah, we might get into more of of that and that side of of it on that episode.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: But um but just to touch lightly on it though, is I s I saw a lot of myself with Hedwig, and so it was kind of a way for me to put a lot of who Eva is into Hedwig, where it's almost like this is who Hedwig is, but it's still Eva.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a way for me to translate that and make it more relatable to me and special to me without doing Hedwig by the book and what's expected, because there was still like a rubric to follow, like every show that you do, but it they kind of were the because we featured two other drag artists too.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I we were rotating cats technically, so everybody had their different take on Hedwig, and that was a fun challenge for me.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_05: What did you think of how the other two did it?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_05: Not necessarily in a critical way, just how like looking back then as an observer of a part that you do, like normally when you think about playing a part, it's a role that you borrow yourself for a limited time.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_05: You don't ever see someone else borrow it at the same time as you.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_05: What's that experience like?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after seeing what they did, I think that they sucked.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm kidding.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_05: No, they uh That's gonna go on the viral clip.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_05: Good.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, Juni, Juni, uh the one of the Hedwigs, she um she's this incredible trans performer that uh had experience or has experience singing with a live rock band.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if she was newer to acting.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't I couldn't remember if she said that, but um, but I know she has stage experience.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and seeing her take on it, I was so enraptured by her vocals and how she delivered that energy with Hedwig with her vocals.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um Cheeky, who was uh the other Hedwig, she uh brought a more traditional sense of Hedwig where it's um a little more by the book, but also like I could see her drag character with Hedwig, and um she's also POC and uh you know uh of brown skin.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of like I love how we took a very white character and we threw in a girl who has more melanin, and that comes that comes with more opportunity to play with that character or to make different choices or to apply, you know, more of yourself to her.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I just I really loved all of us together as a group because we literally brought different facets of our background and our representation or our different takes on such an iconic, queer character such as Hedwig.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like Hedwig learning about the show and really getting to the meat of it, Hedwig is a very complicated, light, not very lightly, but you know, bit of a problematic character, um, given uh the things that she does and what she says.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there was some times where I caught myself like clutching my child.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, whoa.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: My stars.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's crazy.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: But but what I love the most overall with that show is you are getting an hour and a half, hour 45, no intermission of just you on stage, but you're going through the quickest round of character development and growth as a character because Hedwig goes like it's a whole therapy session, is basically what it is.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because she starts off angry and it builds, but then at the end it dissipates and she evolves and she changes and she sees and she grows, and it's so beautiful.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um there wasn't one night during my performances that I didn't cry, like I it is such a powerful thing to feel with her.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, do you know how that decision was made to have three different performers take on that role?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not really, honestly.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't really know uh how that came about.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's a cool choice.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think so too.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that um that is something that should be done kind of like how you have the shadow cast for Rocky.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, the people who mimic the movie and perform it.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it should be seen like that with Hedwig, where you have such a cult, classic, queer film that is so popular and iconic that there should be like a touring company or touring group where you book out a year and you tour the show in different cities, and it should feature two or three different Hedwigs per night that you're doing it in that city because it's like it would expand people's view on different artists and their different takes on Hedwig.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I think that would be so cool.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that needs to become a regular thing.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think like I said that I want to do Hedwig again.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to selfishly have the role to myself and not trade it out and just just for the sake of having more weekends because I only had four performances total.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: But other than that, um, no, I think that would be such an incredible thing to do more often.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that more shows should do stuff like that where, you know, maybe we should cast more swing members or understudies and be more willing to trade them out and have specific like Broadway does it all the time.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: They do understudy shows, they do understudy shows, or there are some schools that I remember like uh that I attended back when I was a kid where we had specific weekends that were the understudy shows.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm not saying that the other queens were my understudies by any means.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like featuring people who are alternating and you know, giving other people the spotlight.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's a there's a pragmatic sense to it in that you're you're kind of building in a safety net, but also there is an artistic uh endeavor in there too, where it someone else comes in, the meaning of things change a little bit, or how you listen to the other person changes a little bit.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_05: The dynamics, the chemistry, the flow of the beats, it all kind of changes a little bit, and it is certainly one way to keep it from getting stale.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_05: That's uh a thing that when you're talking about a mu like a month-long show, and we're gonna do this a little bit more in the next episode, but like when you're dealing with a month-long show or a five-week show, or you know, whatever, longer, as opposed to whether it's a two-weekend or a three three-weekend run, by the time you close, it it's almost like you've crescendoed, right?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_05: You've you've gotten to this point where it's taken on a different it's a different monster altogether.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_05: But when you're dealing with a longer run, it's like, okay, well, how can you keep it organic?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_05: How can you keep it the first time every time?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just it's a different challenge.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is there's a yeah, it really is.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, going off of that, it's like by the time the show is closing, like you I basically perfected the show.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know exactly back to front how it should go, and you know exactly like all your cues, all all the little ins and outs.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's in relation to that though, it's kind of like with songs that I perform at drag bars or drag shows.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the first time I'm performing a song is opening night, where it's like, you don't really know how this is gonna go, but you know this song, and you're gonna see how it goes.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're testing it, testing out emotions, testing out reactions, whatever.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: And by the second or third or fourth time I perform a song is usually when that's where I feel the most connected to it, and I'm like making choices, I'm making different little things uh to make it more interesting, or I'm paying attention to details in the song with the musicality and like the vocals, the breaths, the the sound effects, the whatever.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_05: I'm doing the research on you.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_05: I thought this is a really interesting quote.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_05: I'd never heard it proposed uh this way before.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_05: Someone asked you if you get nervous before you go on stage.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_05: And your quote was you described it as you have like two or three seconds where you feel less than the audience before it all goes away and you're up in your element.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_05: Do you still feel that way or has that feeling evolved?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because I I love a good do you get nervous question.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_05: I think we all still get those butterflies before we go on stage.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_05: But I'd never heard it posed in the way that like it's almost like you're worried about uh failing them in in some kind of way.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_05: It has evolved.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: But so in my early stages of my career, it was seen as nerves because there's a lot when you work in drag for a living, some people have the privilege of doing that, some don't, and they work part-time jobs, whatever.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when you have to make money with your drag, you think about what is going to either make or break that night, and that's pleasing the audience or not.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there are nerves attached to that because you want to do well, but also it's like, you know, when you're like doing a new trick, a new dance, uh, something that's choreographed, a new mix with like uh, you know, sometimes drag performers perform a collection of like two or three songs, and then it's mixed in with like audio clips from like a movie or TV show, and so you want to show off your lip sync ability to drive that character home.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't know how that's gonna go.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you want the laugh, you want the reaction, and when you don't get it, it's devastating in the moment, but also like you know, you'll try it again, maybe you'll adjust.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um, no, how it's evolved though for me, though, is like I have those few seconds, like I said, and where I am like telling myself my ritual, where it's like I'm 10 years old auditioning for my first musical, and my grandma takes my hand and she says, You can do anything.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I repeat that to myself over and over again.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been my armor for decades.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: And but you kind of like step into this mindset where I learned really quick that it's not nerves that a lot of us feel, it's adrenaline.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what you're gonna do, you know what you can do, what you're gonna do.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: You need to adjust that thinking of, oh, I'm so nervous.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have to pee, I have to take a shit, oh my god.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, you your body is feeling adrenaline because you're excited.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't realize that in the moment because you don't want to fail.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the only person that you can fail is yourself by not accepting and stepping out on that stage fully like yourself and being vulnerable with that audience.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: And when that spotlight hits, all of that goes away because it's gone.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's magic how that works.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you know what you're gonna do, you just it's like autopilot almost because like there's some shows where I black out and I'm like, I don't even remember.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did I even do that?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: How do like you know, like, but um, and for me it kind of helps that I'm nearsighted and I don't wear glasses or contacts when I'm on stage ever.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the audience just looks like a blur.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: So like half the time I just rely on sound, and uh, you know, if I can see people up close, you know, it's it's another thing, but um, it kind of helps like not being able to see details looking at me.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, shout out astigmatism on my end.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone, yeah, same.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_05: Every everyone's just a giant blur, it's black out there.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know what's going on.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, me too.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_05: I do.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, we're gonna pick this up for a second episode, but this was this was really fun.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_05: This was very insightful.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I learned a lot, I really enjoyed it.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, so we'll put a bow on this episode.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'd like to thank my guest, Alexander Surian.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_05: You can find them on Instagram at Eva Destruction.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_05: And uh they still perform down on uh Austin's 4th Street at Oil Can Harry's for the best drag show ever on Saturday nights.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_05: You can follow all of our socials on Instagram, on Facebook, on X and Blue Sky, and on TikTok at Theater Life Pod.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_05: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow Theater Life on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube so that the next conversation finds you and find everything at Theaterlife Podcast.com.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_05: New episodes drop every two weeks.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_05: Until then, I'm Ben Kirchhoffal.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_05: See you next time.