Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Mark Potter: New Zealand Education Institute President on the Auditor-General report, funding

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Mark Potter: New Zealand Education Institute President on the Auditor-General report, funding · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, the Order to General has a report out. It's
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: fifty four pages long, and I just bear with me
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: just while I read one little part of it. It
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: essentially says that we don't the Ministry of Education doesn't
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: have enough information about student achievement, which I think is
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: something we know. It's interesting they also talk about inequities
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: in education, so the Ministry knows there wide variations in
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: student achievement between some broadly defined groups. For example, there
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: are long standing disparities between girls and boys in different
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: subjects for students in lower socioeconomic areas, for Mali and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Pacific students. We know that right. However, it is also clear,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: says the report, that some students that belong to these
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: broadly defined student groups are reaching their potential. There are
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: girls who are high achievers in maths and boys who
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: are high achievers in reading. Nine percent of students with
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the lowest socioeconomic backgrounds achieved excellence in maths nine percent.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Why is that happening? Why do some disadvantaged kids achieve
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and others not. Mark Potter is the president of the NZI.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: He's with us this morning. Good morning, Mark, Good morning.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: The report says that the Ministry can't answer that question,
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  Speaker 1: do you have an answer?
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  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's actually Alfhae Cohin in America said that
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: standardized testing is a very good way of setting out
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: how big the houses are near the schools where the
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  Speaker 2: tests are delivered. So the idea of standized testing giving
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: you in depth information about the complex question the Auditor
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: General is asking. Standardized testing is never going to give
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: it to us. All it's going to test is so
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  Speaker 2: receive knowledge, which is only part of the learning of children.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: The disparity even within socio economic groups, will have answers
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  Speaker 2: that we won't find just by testing the children.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Are we wasting time and money then throwing millions of
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: dollars at bat programs that are designed to level the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: playing field. If we can't answer that question, that basic
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: question about it, because that will inform what works right.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a very good question. And the teaching profession
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: has been quite clear for quite some time that we
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: need significant investments in the things that we know will
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: make a difference. We have a waiting lists for specialist
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: support that are too long. We have teachers outnumbered by
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the number of children with increasing demands in the classrooms.
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  Speaker 2: We need more support teacher aids and so on. We
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: need more time for teachers to prepare for an increasingly
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  Speaker 2: high expectation that society has of the learning of children.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: This is where we need investments. We don't need more
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: measurements because we already know these issues that have already
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: been identified. New Zealand, OECD has said, has had the
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: fastest growing social economic gap in the world. And go
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: figure that we have been struggling to maintain the same
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: achievement neals we used to enjoy once upon a time.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: In fact, as a country, we're an outlier in OECD
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  Speaker 2: data because they say we perform much higher in education
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: than our social economic factors indicate we should.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Can you say, I mean, you're obviously asking, as you
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: have done previously, asking for more money for teacher aides
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and all these kinds of things. Can we say that
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: if we put all that money in, because we're spending
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: well eight and a half billion dollars on education at
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the moment, if we put all that money in, will
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: we get outcomes? Will we get results?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, we can say that because if you's look
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: into the evidence research around those very factors, they do
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: make significant difference to how children can learn. There are
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of factors outside the schools that schools cannot
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: deal with, so our teachers face inequity on a daily basis.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: But the things that can be done that can be
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  Speaker 2: changed within the schools means our minister who does want
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to make a difference needs to have a government background
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: by given a genuine new money to invest, not to
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: clip and cut suddenly from one part of education and
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: move it to another. We've been doing that for decades
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  Speaker 2: and it's not working for our children.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: All right, Mark, thank you very much for your time
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: this morning. That's Mark Potter, President of the NZEI. Great
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: to have you on. The program is always eight minutes
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: away from six. The Minister will be on with Mike
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: later on this morning for those who are interested. The
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: audis general support. As I said, it is quite long,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: but it is quite interesting. The fact that they cannot
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: pinpoint why some do better than others. And if you
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: can't pinpoint that, are you not, excuse my French, when
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you're putting money into programs, just kind of pissing in
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the wind. For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge,
• 4:44
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• 4:47
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