Latest / World Ablaze with George Fontes / Mahtab Farid - Iran Uprising, Middle East Relations, and Serving Without A Uniform

Transcript

Mahtab Farid - Iran Uprising, Middle East Relations, and Serving Without A Uniform · World Ablaze with George Fontes

• 0:00
  Thank you very much for being here.
• 0:06
  Now, I tried saying your name earlier offline,
• 0:09
  so I'm going to say it.
• 0:10
  If I butcher it, just correct me.
• 0:11
  Is it Mahabharid?
• 0:15
  Yes.
• 0:17
  And it wasn't me trying to be facetious or, you know,
• 0:22
  trust me, like what I told you earlier,
• 0:24
  I'm just really bad at pronouncing Middle Eastern names correctly.
• 0:26
  So by all means, stop me if I say something that's incorrect and put me on the right path
• 0:32
  there.
• 0:33
  So what I want to do here, you have extensive history in journalism, for one.
• 0:40
  And what caught my eye is you have a focus in dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, basically
• 0:48
  in the Middle East, two of the hotbeds, of course, when it comes to Middle Eastern relations
• 0:53
  with the United States.
• 0:54
  and it's very interesting that through your journey,
• 0:57
  you ended up working for the government of Voice of America
• 1:00
  in which you had a broadcast,
• 1:02
  international broadcast to Iran.
• 1:03
  Is that correct?
• 1:05
  Yes.
• 1:06
  Okay.
• 1:06
  And then you trained Afghanis in journalism?
• 1:12
  Yeah.
• 1:13
  Or broadcasting?
• 1:14
  I trained Afghan students to become reporters
• 1:20
  because they didn't have the capacity.
• 1:24
  They had only limited classes and training.
• 1:27
  So I trained them to be able to tell their story
• 1:30
  and to be able to tell the truth.
• 1:33
  Awesome.
• 1:34
  And I think that's going to be invaluable
• 1:36
  with our conversation here
• 1:38
  because I really want to get your insight
• 1:40
  because you have firsthand knowledge
• 1:42
  in dealing with the area,
• 1:43
  getting people's perspectives.
• 1:44
  What's happening in Iran since...
• 1:46
  I know your family's from Iran.
• 1:48
  I believe you...
• 1:49
  Were you nine years old when the Islamic revolution broke out?
• 1:54
  Is that correct?
• 1:55
  Yes, I was nine years old when my mom showed up to our school.
• 2:01
  And then she grabbed my hand and she took me away without saying a word.
• 2:06
  So that's when I found out, you know, and I noticed the military presence on the street and, you know, the newspapers that said Shah left.
• 2:16
  Okay.
• 2:17
  So that's been in my brain ever since, but we didn't leave until I was 15.
• 2:25
  So we left during Iran-Iraq war.
• 2:29
  So we've seen the whole revolution and Iran-Iraq war.
• 2:34
  So as soon as I entered the United States, then there was a ceasefire that was announced by UN after eight long years of war.
• 2:46
  So you have some real memories of that period of time then if you left when you were 14.
• 2:52
  Yes.
• 2:53
  Yes.
• 2:54
  Wow.
• 2:54
  Okay.
• 2:55
  Well, I'm glad you're here on the show today because completely relevant experience for
• 3:00
  sure.
• 3:01
  Before we dive into that, because I know everybody wants to hear that, let's talk about
• 3:06
  your journey in journalism because when you came to America, I found it interesting that
• 3:09
  that was what you wanted to do.
• 3:11
  You wanted to be a journalist.
• 3:13
  Why?
• 3:14
  Why journalism?
• 3:16
  I mentioned that in my book. I was nine years old when my mom came and grabbed my hand and brought me home. And soon after the revolution happened, very soon, one day I came back from school, the school bus dropped me off.
• 3:35
  I came, normally my routine would be to come home, to grab a snack and watch a little bit of cartoon and then do my homework.
• 3:45
  And that day when I turned on the TV, I saw the horrific pictures of U.S. diplomats being held hostage.
• 3:54
  So I know at that point that wasn't us, that wasn't my family.
• 3:59
  We loved America. We loved the American culture.
• 4:02
  I was fascinated by America.
• 4:04
  So at that point, I wanted to grow up, become a reporter and tell our story and say, Iranians are not hostage takers, are not terrorists.
• 4:13
  We're good people.
• 4:14
  So after your years working for local stations in LA and then ending up on Fox, I believe, LA, is that correct?
• 4:22
  Yeah, it was local Fox, but my first official journalism job with Fox was right after 9-11 in Washington, D.C.
• 4:31
  Okay. That was an interesting time to be a journalist.
• 4:35
  Yeah. And it was interesting for me because three months before 9-11, I became a US citizen.
• 4:42
  So at that point, I felt a sense of belonging. I had a new homeland who gave me refuge.
• 4:51
  So when 9-11 happened, I was very upset. I just wanted to make sure I do everything to serve and
• 4:57
  to make sure I pay back to America.
• 5:00
  But as a Middle Eastern immigrant at that time, did you feel welcomed when all that happened?
• 5:06
  Well, you know, you always see bias, but you can choose to use that bias to educate people around you.
• 5:13
  Or you can get upset and just be bitter and isolate yourself.
• 5:18
  So I always try to use that as a leverage to walk in.
• 5:22
  I mean, I never forget in one of the, because at the time I was doing some freelancing on the side too.
• 5:29
  And when 9-11 happened, one of the producers, I won't mention which station it was, walked up to me and he said,
• 5:37
  why is it that all these terrorist activities always happen by you Muslim people?
• 5:42
  And I was taken back because he's attacking me for something I haven't done.
• 5:48
  And then I said, you know, if I remember correctly, Waco, Texas was done by non-Muslims at the time or some of these school shootings.
• 6:01
  So we can't really.
• 6:03
  And then he was cool.
• 6:05
  He came.
• 6:05
  He apologized.
• 6:06
  We talked.
• 6:07
  And, you know, just like any normal person.
• 6:10
  So I always try to use that as a leverage to educate others and be educated myself.
• 6:15
  because when we were growing up, for example, we were told to hate Jews.
• 6:21
  And I remember my classmate, Rebecca, during our religion hour,
• 6:29
  she had to leave the class because she was Jewish.
• 6:32
  And it would always bother me because she was my friend and I would play with her.
• 6:38
  But then when I came to America, I had a different sense
• 6:42
  because you see more Jewish people.
• 6:45
  They are in your community.
• 6:46
  They are your doctors.
• 6:47
  They are your teachers.
• 6:48
  So you gain a different appreciation
• 6:50
  and understanding towards that community.
• 6:53
  So I am always open to teach and to learn.
• 6:57
  I wasn't going to,
• 6:59
  but I think later I do want to question you
• 7:03
  about that.
• 7:06
  Walking that fine line here
• 7:08
  as people see Muslims a certain way
• 7:10
  and then we can talk about Islam because, you know,
• 7:13
  everything that happened with the revolution in 78, 79
• 7:15
  had to do with the Islamic revolution.
• 7:18
  But I think people were fooled
• 7:21
  and to believing that there was going to be this benevolent change of guard,
• 7:27
  like looking out for the people, best interest of Iran,
• 7:29
  and then they just dropped the hammer of extreme Islamic ideas.
• 7:34
  So I would like your insight on that because, you know,
• 7:38
  I don't know if you heard any of my other stuff,
• 7:39
  but I've had other people on that talk about Islam in general and its fallacies and its extremism.
• 7:46
  But maybe you can educate us in another way, like shed some light on that.
• 7:50
  And maybe we're looking at it the wrong way.
• 7:53
  I just tell you one thing.
• 7:56
  So there is Islam as a religion and there is Islam as a tradition.
• 8:01
  I'm not an Islam expert.
• 8:04
  I call myself U.S.-Iran, U.S.-Middle East expert.
• 8:09
  on all the regional countries.
• 8:12
  And I mentioned that in my book,
• 8:14
  the Islam that I know,
• 8:17
  I learned from my grandfather.
• 8:19
  He was both sides,
• 8:20
  my grandfather's side,
• 8:22
  they were devout Muslims,
• 8:23
  but they gave to their community.
• 8:25
  They were family men.
• 8:26
  They loved everyone.
• 8:28
  They contributed.
• 8:29
  They were nothing but positive.
• 8:31
  So they use Islam as a framework
• 8:33
  to be better men.
• 8:35
  They use their religion to be better.
• 8:37
  That's what religion is supposed to do.
• 8:38
  I mean, whether you are a Christian, a Jewish person or a Muslim person.
• 8:44
  So we were never, my parents were not religious.
• 8:46
  So they never pressed that religion button on us.
• 8:51
  They introduced us to what 98% of the society was at the time, but they never told us that we have to abide by Islam closely.
• 9:02
  But what I've learned from all that was to be a good person, to give back, not to lie, not to steal, you know, just the normal things that any person that knows God should do.
• 9:14
  Well, it's unfortunate that a lot of what happens, and specifically when we talk about Iran, is the extremist side of things seems to have a grip on the reality out there and enforcing these extreme views on people.
• 9:30
  and that's the unfortunate representation, I guess, of Islam, right?
• 9:36
  And so you grew up seeing it one way because your family,
• 9:41
  they acted one way in terms of how it was taught
• 9:44
  and how you're supposed to live.
• 9:45
  But then all we see on the news is the extreme side of it
• 9:48
  and how it oppresses people and their lives.
• 9:51
  And so that's why I wanted to ask you about that
• 9:56
  is because you're someone who has a different take on it
• 10:00
  based on your experience versus what's happening now and what we see around the world.
• 10:04
  And when the revolution came, you know, like when Reza was exiled, right?
• 10:11
  The last monarch.
• 10:13
  And he was exiled.
• 10:14
  At that time, religion in general, Islam was not like the de facto religion of Iran, right?
• 10:23
  There was an older religion actually in that area.
• 10:25
  I mean, that predates Hindi or Hinduism actually.
• 10:28
  and so I forgot what it's called Zoroastrian
• 10:32
  yes that's it thank you so it's an area
• 10:37
  of a vast history knowledge like there's so much in that area
• 10:41
  that just got turned upside down once this revolution happened and so
• 10:45
  I just don't want you to feel like I'm trying to get
• 10:49
  a certain answer out of you that I want to hear I just really wanted to get your perspective
• 10:53
  on it because we're always told one thing we see one thing but then someone like
• 10:57
  has a different idea or perspective on how people live according to that doctrine, for example.
• 11:03
  I mean, you could take anything extreme is what I'm getting at.
• 11:06
  Fortunately, we see more of extreme.
• 11:08
  Well, my whole take about the whole thing, that's why it's fascinating that we have this
• 11:15
  constitution, we have separation of church and state.
• 11:18
  So I think everyone's religion should matter to themselves.
• 11:22
  and it's the God that's our principal guide.
• 11:27
  So it's not really necessarily anyone's religion
• 11:29
  because if you study all their religions,
• 11:31
  they all say the same thing.
• 11:32
  Do good, be good, pay back.
• 11:35
  And I think what happens is
• 11:38
  when you bring religion into other decision-making,
• 11:42
  I mean, there are some,
• 11:43
  I mean, you would argue that, yes, it matters.
• 11:47
  We have to bring that in.
• 11:48
  But in general, what I've learned was
• 11:51
  to use that principle guide of knowing God and be that. And it doesn't matter like the nuances
• 12:00
  because I came to America and I was also fascinated by Christianity because I had a Christian friends
• 12:07
  who took me to church for the first time. And I was fascinated because in Iran or in all the
• 12:13
  Muslim countries, they don't play music in the mosque or, you know, I saw it's a very festive
• 12:19
  thing. Being Christian was festive. They played really cool music. People interacted. Girls came
• 12:25
  to meet other guys to date. I mean, it was a whole social realm. And I loved that how they were
• 12:33
  forgiving of like, you know, they pretty much people do everything and they say, Jesus will
• 12:40
  forgive you. And I said, oh, this is pretty cool. Like, you know, they don't have that judgment on
• 12:45
  you. So I think there is
• 12:47
  fascination in every religion
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  and it all depends on how you're
• 12:52
  using that information, just like
• 12:53
  how we use your internet to do good or to do bad And what interesting is as you said there so many parallels between most all the major religions Right So a lot of them share many stories going back like thousands of years
• 13:07
  like thousands of years.
• 13:08
  But, you know, let's get away from religion.
• 13:10
  I just wanted to get your insight on that little,
• 13:13
  on that, what's going on there in terms of Islam being used as a weapon
• 13:17
  or a tool really to suppress others.
• 13:20
  And I know it's not everybody.
• 13:21
  It's just these extremists that are doing it.
• 13:23
  But before we get back to Iran, I want to talk about how you served without a uniform.
• 13:28
  I believe that led you to Afghanistan.
• 13:30
  Is that correct?
• 13:32
  Yeah.
• 13:33
  This is my book, Serving Without a Uniform.
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  So I told you when 9-11 happened, I felt a sense of responsibility to pay back to America because my new homeland was attacked.
• 13:47
  So when civilian surge opportunity opened up, I volunteered to go to Afghanistan.
• 13:52
  So I was with State Department, but we were embedded with the military to go on missions.
• 13:58
  So I went to over like almost 50 missions, humanitarian missions with the military in eastern provinces of Afghanistan.
• 14:08
  So I named that serving without a uniform, meaning you don't have to be a soldier to serve.
• 14:13
  you could serve in so many ways, starting from your local communities.
• 14:20
  Your time in Afghanistan doing that, what was the vibe or the feeling from the actual Afghani people
• 14:27
  and America's involvement at that time?
• 14:31
  Not very positive for sure. So because I spoke Darian Farsi fluently, I could speak with them.
• 14:41
  And I remember in one of my classes, they were very impolite to our military.
• 14:46
  And I grabbed one of my students.
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  I said, why are you so hostile to him?
• 14:50
  Because he's here to take my religion away.
• 14:53
  And I said, no, he's not.
• 14:55
  And he actually prays before he eats and he prays before he goes to bed.
• 15:00
  They're not here.
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  They're here to help you.
• 15:02
  He's also a father and a teacher back home.
• 15:05
  He was a national guard.
• 15:07
  And he was just shocked.
• 15:09
  And then he started talking to him and then they, you know, he gave him a hug when they were saying goodbye.
• 15:16
  So I definitely it was very negative.
• 15:18
  I mean, there was a lot of negative propaganda.
• 15:21
  And of course, lack of telling this story, both are major news networks and some of the other.
• 15:28
  So the NATO reporters, anyone who came to Afghanistan, they were there to report on blasts, on explosions, on deaths and casualties.
• 15:37
  There was also a lot of-
• 15:39
  They sensationalized it, right?
• 15:40
  Absolutely.
• 15:41
  Reconstruction efforts.
• 15:43
  There was, I mentioned one of the military actually in this, it was Major Rosie who was a medic nurse.
• 15:54
  And he would treat these Afghan kids.
• 15:58
  And our priority was supposed to be in any one of us because we had such limited capacity.
• 16:07
  But he would never turned on a kid.
• 16:10
  He would never turned on a kid.
• 16:12
  And he could have gotten in a lot of trouble, but he still chose to do that because he felt and nobody reported on that.
• 16:19
  That's why I actually mentioned him like in two, three pages with the picture.
• 16:25
  So people know there were a lot of soldiers who would come.
• 16:29
  They wanted to give back to the kids.
• 16:30
  They would call their church and they would get books and crayons and wanted to distribute it about Afghans.
• 16:37
  There was a lot of affection among the military and Afghans that was never reported.
• 16:44
  Yes, there were bad news too, that we would have collateral damage or there would be misinformation like burning of Koran.
• 16:54
  When you were there, where in your opinion, where did this misinformation come from?
• 17:00
  Was it the media themselves just trying to get sensationalized stories out there to the public?
• 17:05
  or was it specifically from a certain group?
• 17:09
  Well, both, you know, all the militia groups
• 17:13
  and all these proxy groups
• 17:15
  and all basically U.S. adversary,
• 17:18
  both in Afghanistan and in the region,
• 17:21
  were pushing this message that they're occupiers,
• 17:25
  they're here, they're here to corrupt, disrupt,
• 17:28
  and take away everything you have,
• 17:30
  including your religion and your kids.
• 17:32
  so you have that narrative that you're playing with and we have you know it doesn't help that
• 17:40
  some of our major news networks also amplifying the same thing right and then the local reporters
• 17:47
  had no access to internet some of them didn't even have an email address the places that i served
• 17:53
  so that's where i started teaching like basic journalism from scratch to some of these
• 17:59
  local people to make sure they're telling their own story correctly because they were listening
• 18:06
  to things that it was not true, even with an own Afghan government.
• 18:11
  How did that experience in Afghanistan differ from what you did at Voice of America?
• 18:21
  Actually, in some ways, it was very similar. At Voice of America, I had to educate my
• 18:29
  colleagues too, because in the 20 years that U.S. was in Afghanistan, we were doing reconstruction.
• 18:38
  I don't remember Voice of America ever having one piece on U.S. efforts in Afghanistan and
• 18:45
  reconstruction or, you know, for Memorial Day, Veterans Day. I never saw us featuring, you know,
• 18:54
  a local soldier,
• 18:55
  someone who lost their lives,
• 18:57
  who's left with seven kids.
• 18:59
  I never saw that.
• 19:01
  So I used to kind of have the same fight here at home saying,
• 19:07
  Hey,
• 19:07
  this is,
• 19:08
  and they're like,
• 19:09
  no.
• 19:09
  And it's like,
• 19:10
  we're voice of America.
• 19:11
  We're not CNN or Fox.
• 19:14
  We're supposed to amplify their voice.
• 19:17
  How was,
• 19:17
  how was it?
• 19:19
  How was it when you were focusing your efforts at the time?
• 19:24
  and broadcasting to the Iranian people.
• 19:27
  Could you repeat that question again, please?
• 19:30
  When you were broadcasting to the Iranian people at that time at Voice of America,
• 19:33
  how was that experience for you?
• 19:37
  It was a fantastic experience because one of the biggest Iran's strengths,
• 19:45
  Iranian government strength, is controlling information.
• 19:49
  So they censor information.
• 19:52
  They control reporters.
• 19:53
  They control the narrative. So they lead the information environment. So by being at Voice of America, I was able to lead the information and at least to be a voice to lead to that information.
• 20:10
  For example, when some kind of a legislation was introduced just at some committee level, the Iranian government would blast it as, oh, they are passing the law in U.S. that the visa will be banned for all the students and all that.
• 20:29
  Let's say it was some kind of conversation or legislations that were being introduced just at a committee level.
• 20:34
  There were some discussions.
• 20:35
  So I had a chance as a reporter to go and say what a bill means, what a legislation means, what does it mean when it's at a committee level, then it goes to the full committee, then it goes to the House floor, to the Senate floor.
• 20:49
  So that's where you're useful in basically telling the truth of what's going on.
• 20:56
  And sometimes the truth is not necessarily good.
• 20:58
  I mean, there are times that the bills are being passed that's to the disadvantage of the citizens, but you still can tell the truth.
• 21:07
  And then there's also language and congressional issues, too.
• 21:12
  In Iran, at the time, I remember, they don't know the difference between Biden and Biden.
• 21:17
  Like if at the time it was Senator Biden or Biden or the difference between a member of House or member of the Senate.
• 21:26
  So you get a chance to talk about all those details to your audience.
• 21:31
  Was there a time?
• 21:33
  I'm sure there was.
• 21:34
  How often did you face the opposition from the government of Iran in terms of trying to stop your information from getting there or suppressing what you were doing in your efforts?
• 21:46
  I mean, the government doesn't just single one person.
• 21:50
  they always say VOA, Radio Free Europe, and all these Western voices are not the correct voices.
• 22:00
  So you just basically keep doing what you're doing and you lead with the information.
• 22:06
  And it's like leading by example. And believe it or not, there were times that then they quote
• 22:11
  us and say, oh, according to Radio Faraday, so you become the source over time.
• 22:19
  But was there ever a time where they would figure out what frequency you're transmitting over the air and just try to block that?
• 22:26
  Oh, absolutely. All the time. That's one of Iran's expertise.
• 22:31
  At the time when people had satellite dishes, they would go to their homes, they would confiscate, they would either find them or arrest them.
• 22:39
  And then later on, when people have internet connection, then there was internet shutdown and they would make sure they come on those frequencies and try to disrupt and basically dismantle the connection to Iran. Yes.
• 22:56
  So that what they're doing now is what they've always done.
• 23:00
  It's just now it's more internet-based than really, you know, radio is probably not the go-to anymore.
• 23:06
  And so leading into what's happening in Iran now, as someone who is from Iran, yourself, do you still have family there or anybody that you stay connected to?
• 23:18
  My close family, my parents and my brothers and their families and my aunts and uncles are all here in America, mostly in California.
• 23:31
  I have like four cousins and friends, but I haven't been in touch for many years with them.
• 23:41
  Yes.
• 23:41
  Understood.
• 23:43
  So what's happening in Iran, being your whole family is from Iran.
• 23:48
  what is your opinion or what do you know about what's happening now?
• 23:52
  What is actually leading to what we're seeing now
• 23:55
  with what's being labeled as the Iranian uprising?
• 23:59
  Because a lot of people think this is new and it's not new.
• 24:04
  It just seemed to fester and get to the point where the volcano just exploded.
• 24:11
  What can you offer in terms of your insight and your knowledge
• 24:15
  into what's happening at this moment?
• 24:18
  George, that's an excellent point that you mentioned. And I wanted to mention that what you see on TV, it's been happening for over four decades to the Iranian people, this suppression.
• 24:31
  So we had a series of these movements in 1999, in 2009, in recent years. And if you remember, when U.S. eliminated Soleimani in 2019, there were people who came on the street and they were celebrating.
• 24:47
  Right. So they've been going through this. And then there was this recent movement on woman life freedom that you saw like dozens of hundreds of girls were were injured and were shot at and were killed.
• 25:04
  And there were some in prison and some that came out and killed themselves because of what happened in prison.
• 25:11
  So the world is just watching all of this.
• 25:15
  But this has been happening for over 40 years.
• 25:18
  And the international community has been looking the other way.
• 25:21
  I'm not here on your show as a human rights activist, but as a human being and as a U.S. citizen with cultural ties to Iran.
• 25:33
  It really breaks my heart that everyone was talking about Ukraine, Ukraine, and all of this that was going on for years and years in Iran, Iran was not getting any coverage.
• 25:45
  And it just, it feels like we tend to care for one than other.
• 25:52
  Or everybody is now blaming President Trump for not taking the military action I just like How come NATO is not paying attention How come the regional Muslim countries who are supposed allies are not stepping up to the plate
• 26:10
  and they're confronting Iran saying, hey, you're my neighbor. You have the same religion. This is
• 26:15
  not cool how you're treating your people. It's not cool. So it looks like all the blames and
• 26:22
  all the action should be on America and whatever we do, we can never win. If we go in, we're,
• 26:27
  I mean, I remember back then in some of the interactions, I used to mention that in my
• 26:33
  opinion, I don't think without the military action, this could ever be resolved like many,
• 26:38
  many years ago. And everyone called me a warmonger. You're trying to, it's like, no,
• 26:43
  I'm just telling you how this is. And all those people who were fighting me, calling me a warmonger.
• 26:49
  Now they are like protesting every week in front of the White House,
• 26:52
  wanting President Obama to launch an attack.
• 26:55
  And I really, really hope we can resolve this in a non-kinetic way.
• 27:02
  So, yeah.
• 27:03
  And, you know, what's different now, though?
• 27:06
  I mean, the people have risen up.
• 27:08
  And let's just be honest.
• 27:09
  We're about two generations or so removed from the monarchy.
• 27:15
  Okay.
• 27:15
  Many people there don't know any different other than what they've been born
• 27:19
  into, right?
• 27:20
  Absolutely.
• 27:20
  In that system.
• 27:21
  So what's different now?
• 27:23
  What has led to people, in your opinion, coming together and actually rising up against the
• 27:28
  oppressive government or the oppressive regime?
• 27:32
  They've been doing uprising for a long time.
• 27:35
  Right.
• 27:35
  But now it's a whole different level, right?
• 27:38
  We're seeing a lot more because right now it's impacting the economy, the environment,
• 27:44
  the everyday life, and it's just getting worse and worse.
• 27:48
  So there is especially after that 12 day war, Iran situation got worse because Iran realized all the spies that were living in the country.
• 28:01
  So they started disrupting all the major Internet and a lot of jobs were dismantled after that.
• 28:07
  For example, Uber in Iran, they call it Snap.
• 28:10
  They can't work because the navigation system is shut down after what happened on that 12 day war.
• 28:16
  So, you know, a combination of suppression economy, you can't feed your kids, you can't, you know, there's bad weather, there's the environment is so bad, the pollution is so bad.
• 28:28
  In some days, the government or the news will announce that if you're over 70 years old, you shouldn't leave the house because there's so much pollution in the air.
• 28:39
  I mean, in every and then there are sanctions on Iran, there are medical sanctions on Iran.
• 28:44
  People cannot get all the medication they need.
• 28:47
  For example, cancer patients have a hard time getting their chemo.
• 28:51
  So you can just imagine they have every pressure from every field being pressed on them.
• 29:01
  So there is a breaking pressure point.
• 29:05
  Right.
• 29:05
  It's just some are saying that this is timely.
• 29:09
  some are asking
• 29:11
  you know like
• 29:12
  I know there's always been an opposition
• 29:15
  there's always been some kind of an uprising
• 29:17
  but it's gotten to the point where
• 29:19
  it's thousands of people coming together
• 29:21
  and it's very public
• 29:23
  unlike before
• 29:25
  like you said it didn't get a lot of attention
• 29:26
  but this is different because I think it got so big
• 29:29
  that they can't not notice
• 29:30
  and it took a little while though
• 29:31
  most media outlets weren't really reporting on it
• 29:34
  most of what we're getting is what we're seeing on social media
• 29:36
  and it finally got big enough
• 29:38
  and enough attention to where now people are starting to report on it,
• 29:42
  which is ridiculous to me.
• 29:44
  And it seems like the regime is about to fall.
• 29:48
  Everybody thinks it's going to fall soon.
• 29:50
  We have no idea.
• 29:52
  Khomeini has nowhere to go, apparently.
• 29:55
  No country wants to give him refuge.
• 29:57
  And I'm sorry to correct you.
• 29:59
  It's a common mistake.
• 30:00
  Khomeini was the Islamic Republic leader.
• 30:05
  It's Khomeini.
• 30:06
  Khomeini, okay.
• 30:07
  And they're very close.
• 30:08
  No, you can correct me.
• 30:09
  Like I said, I mispronounce these things.
• 30:12
  But he has nowhere to go, right?
• 30:14
  No one's going to offer him sanctuary, for example.
• 30:18
  France said no.
• 30:20
  Other countries have said no.
• 30:21
  And here we are with something that is no longer being able to be contained.
• 30:26
  And so it's interesting, as you were saying, how they would suppress information by controlling the internet and whatnot.
• 30:34
  And what's interesting to me is they've done that.
• 30:36
  they've been, I forgot how many days now, 20 something days?
• 30:40
  Yeah. Well, the internet disconnect started from January 8th.
• 30:46
  Okay.
• 30:46
  It's been over a week without internet connection.
• 30:49
  But yeah, the protests have been going on for like three weeks now.
• 30:52
  Right. The protests have been going on for a week.
• 30:54
  So the internet's been down for a week.
• 30:56
  How is information getting out there?
• 30:59
  Because I'm assuming they would be controlling even cell phone towers.
• 31:03
  Yeah, it's not.
• 31:04
  But some of these nonprofit organizations and some of these human rights organizations like Amnesty International does amazing reporting on what's going on.
• 31:18
  So they have people inside Iran and they have ways to communicate those conversations.
• 31:23
  And if you go to Amnesty International, you see a lot of documented cases.
• 31:28
  cases. And now actually Amnesty was proposing that this case should be brought to UN and it
• 31:37
  should be confronted because this is a human rights issues and all the killings and the injuries and
• 31:42
  the way it's going on against a population that's unarmed. So you find a lot of documented cases.
• 31:51
  Right. But we're seeing videos, right, of what's happening. So it's like, is it getting snuck out?
• 31:59
  Well, there was Starlink, that Starlink works in some parts of Iran. And there are also people who left the country.
• 32:09
  There were like passengers, there were visitors who brought some of that.
• 32:12
  But if you notice during those few days, there was nothing from Iran. And some of those protests you were seeing, they were like dated back to before the Internet.
• 32:21
  So those few days, we still yet have to see.
• 32:26
  I'm sure people filmed it, but they weren't able to get it out.
• 32:30
  But we're going to see a lot more horror videos once.
• 32:33
  So the reason I was going that direction with everything is, for one, the information was suppressed.
• 32:43
  People are still getting information out there.
• 32:45
  and at some point, you know, let's see, what was I going to say here?
• 32:53
  At some point, people are starting to question whether what we were seeing
• 32:59
  was actually real or just propaganda.
• 33:03
  So being that the information has been controlled,
• 33:06
  a lot of people were saying that what we were seeing in the beginning,
• 33:09
  I mean, now it's different.
• 33:10
  I think it's gotten to the point where you can't question it,
• 33:12
  but in the beginning, people were saying it was propaganda.
• 33:14
  It was U.S. propaganda.
• 33:16
  It was Israeli propaganda.
• 33:17
  It's probably Israel's fault.
• 33:19
  And so that is the question.
• 33:22
  I mean, do you think some of this was propaganda
• 33:24
  or was this real actual footage that had gotten out
• 33:28
  and people were just risking their lives
• 33:30
  to let people know around the world
• 33:31
  what was really happening?
• 33:33
  I think I cannot comment on the videos
• 33:37
  until we get, like I said, Amnesty International
• 33:40
  to really make a good assessment of the documentation
• 33:43
  I can say definitely there are genuine concerns that people are being killed on the streets because they just want to do what they want to do for basic human rights.
• 33:57
  And there are also influences from outside because there is so much interest and excitement from outside, whether you call it the U.S. or the Israeli influence.
• 34:08
  influence. They want the regime out that there are some, and I'm not mentioning the countries.
• 34:16
  There are a lot of, you know, people inside Israel, inside America who'd like to see this
• 34:23
  regime go a certain way and be led a certain way. So they go behind this and try to kind of
• 34:30
  of ride the waves on some people's lives that are, you know, and now there's a lot of
• 34:40
  communication in the community who's going to be the next leader and people are fighting.
• 34:45
  And the focus should be, let's just give them some safety, some internet connection,
• 34:51
  some stability, and let those people decide.
• 34:54
  We outside, whether as a country or as a person, cannot decide for the people inside.
• 35:02
  But as America, as a country that leads for all these values, if we can help in any way we can, it would be wonderful.
• 35:13
  But it's not just our responsibility.
• 35:16
  It should be the responsibility of the entire international community.
• 35:19
  community because all these European countries that are always telling, advocating human rights,
• 35:26
  values, and all this, and they're telling how U.S. is not doing right, they're not doing right right
• 35:31
  now either. They're just staying silent. When it comes to Iran, though, with this situation,
• 35:37
  the people themselves have to make the change. They have to force the change, right? And I know
• 35:45
  that, look, we don't want the U.S. to force a regime change, for example. And I think that's
• 35:51
  what the criticism about Trump's inaction has been because there's two sides to this. It's,
• 35:57
  yes, we want to support the people. And he has made threats to the leadership that, hey,
• 36:02
  if you don't comply with this, we are coming. But at the same time, he realizes, I think,
• 36:08
  that forcing regime change has never really worked well. And who's next, right? Is it
• 36:15
  Reza's son, is he really, I mean, going back to a monarchy in Iran, is that where they need to go?
• 36:20
  Or do they need to go to a democratic system?
• 36:24
  I mean, it's not, like you said, our decision.
• 36:27
  But we also have to recognize that further relationships with Russia, for example,
• 36:32
  who's, you know, communist roots, background, very authoritarian, and then same thing with China.
• 36:36
  Is that the benefit to what they need in the Middle East at this point?
• 36:39
  because the whole reason all these wars happened,
• 36:41
  even going back to Iran before the change in the monarchy
• 36:45
  when it was abolished,
• 36:46
  was because Russia was going in trying to spread communism
• 36:49
  and spread socialism into the system.
• 36:51
  Same thing with Afghanistan way back when.
• 36:54
  And a lot of people don't even know that.
• 36:55
  They just think, oh, all this started because the U.S. got involved.
• 36:57
  No, we got involved because Russia was encroaching
• 36:59
  and pushing communism and trying to create these relationships
• 37:02
  to control the region.
• 37:04
  So with that being said, it's like, what should the U.S. do?
• 37:08
  In your opinion, I know you're not...
• 37:09
  I'm not trying to put your spot, but what do you think?
• 37:11
  Because you have a lot of experience in the area.
• 37:13
  You have a lot of experience in dealing with the people.
• 37:15
  So what do you think would be the best play at this point?
• 37:18
  Like, how can we actually offer support without further endangering the people and causing another situation?
• 37:24
  I think, in my opinion, observing the last 20 years, like, on U.S.-Iran relations every day.
• 37:37
  President Trump has been the only president who had made a decision to start like some kind of a policy towards Iran.
• 37:48
  We never had a decisive policy towards Iran.
• 37:51
  So during Obama administration, they said we want to do engagement.
• 37:55
  And they did eight years of basically wasting time, wasting people's emotions because Iranians were so excited when Kerry was talking to Zarif.
• 38:09
  They thought they were going to have a reform country without bloodshed.
• 38:13
  But it wasn't true because the hardliners and the reformers were two different camps.
• 38:18
  And the hardliners always lead because the Ayatollah goes above the constitution.
• 38:27
  So he has a veto power even over the Iran's constitution.
• 38:30
  OK, so first of all, for both administration, even during Bush, they talked about if you stop enriching uranium, I remember Condoleezza Rice, you know, we will come and talk to you.
• 38:43
  Then it was Obama. Let's talk to each other. And then they talked endlessly to each other.
• 38:48
  And then they gave them billions of dollars of the frozen asset which strengthened them to to get stronger with all the proxies in Lebanon in Iraq and in Syria And then fast forward to Trump I think the single best foreign policy any U president has done in the past 40 years
• 39:09
  was elimination of Soleimani.
• 39:12
  Up till today, Iran has been spinning, trying to replace someone.
• 39:18
  He was not only a force in Iran, he was a force in the region.
• 39:22
  He was an accelerated force to excite young people to become the next generation militia group.
• 39:33
  I mean, there are pictures of these young people treating him like a rock star, taking selfies with Soleimani.
• 39:41
  So he had that kind of a power.
• 39:43
  He was able to go get money, even fight for money from Ayatollah directly, bypassing the foreign minister.
• 39:50
  and they had their own logistics, their airlines,
• 39:56
  and they did a lot of work, not only in Iran,
• 39:59
  but a lot of damage to us regionally.
• 40:02
  So that U.S. strategic point,
• 40:05
  taking him out on that mission,
• 40:09
  I think it was a huge mission.
• 40:12
  And if he was alive still, even like Trump said,
• 40:16
  things would have been a lot harder.
• 40:17
  So that really opened the path for, you know, a hope in Iran. And for the first time, Iranians saw, OK, someone is here to help us. But then we went through four years of doing nothing with Iran. Absolutely nothing. Right. And just back and forth, just kind of going status quo. And again, this is not a criticism on Democrats or Republicans. I'm just saying when it came to Iran, Iran was always like, OK, this is too hard. Let's just let the next guys deal with it.
• 40:47
  We just go with the status quo.
• 40:49
  And then this time, you know, things got heated up in Syria, as we saw in Lebanon, you know, all these recent attacks that we had.
• 40:59
  So now we are in this situation.
• 41:01
  But my whole point is we cannot just have America to police everything.
• 41:08
  And this is a matter that should matter to our allies in the region, Muslim allies, and to our European allies.
• 41:17
  No, no, that statement is very true.
• 41:21
  We shouldn't police or have to police the world.
• 41:24
  So a couple of things there.
• 41:27
  Wanting to help Iran has never been, I don't think anyone's not wanted to help the Iranian people.
• 41:33
  What you brought up, though, earlier was very concerning, or always been a concern.
• 41:37
  because even given money, we can't, as the U.S. or any nation,
• 41:41
  can't guarantee how that's going to be used.
• 41:43
  As you said earlier, and it's true,
• 41:46
  it was used to further fund the proxies.
• 41:48
  They're proxies, right?
• 41:50
  And unfortunately, they were to do what?
• 41:52
  Well, wage wars and unrest and attacks on other nations around their countries,
• 41:57
  mostly against Israel.
• 41:59
  But, you know, basically just tightening their grip
• 42:02
  without being directly involved.
• 42:03
  That's why they use proxies.
• 42:05
  Can't really point the finger at Iran.
• 42:06
  They could say, hey, hands off.
• 42:08
  It wasn't us.
• 42:09
  So, you know, I get it.
• 42:12
  Yes, we all want to help, but there's no guarantee.
• 42:15
  Until this regime is gone, there's no guarantee that we know of that whatever we give is going to be used benevolently or used for the right purpose.
• 42:25
  As far as us stepping in, I mean, look, France has had a long history in dealing in the Middle East.
• 42:34
  And they, to this day, have really not done much.
• 42:37
  We could say the same thing for the UK,
• 42:39
  who colonized most of the world at the time, or that region.
• 42:43
  But even they're more hands-off.
• 42:46
  So everyone looks to the U.S. to try to make this happen, right?
• 42:49
  And police the world, as you said.
• 42:51
  So what is the best way, in your opinion, for the U.S. to be able to help?
• 42:55
  I mean, short of us just, I guess, whipping everyone into shape and saying,
• 43:00
  hey, you need to step up and step in and help out.
• 43:04
  which we can't do because nobody seems to want to listen to us anymore.
• 43:07
  What can we do at this point?
• 43:09
  That it's not military?
• 43:11
  I think at this point, even the military would not help
• 43:15
  because right now the situation is there's a lot of civilians.
• 43:20
  There's 90 million people in Iran.
• 43:22
  And how are we going to, so all these officials are going to be hidden somewhere.
• 43:27
  How are we going to do it without some heavy bombing?
• 43:30
  And why should we do that?
• 43:32
  Why should we suffer the cost of like financial costs for the taxpayers and also the human cost for Iranians?
• 43:40
  It's just it's a no win situation.
• 43:43
  I think if if if somebody asked me, hey, you have five minutes with President Trump, I would say, hey, have a meeting with all your Muslim allies and with all your European allies.
• 43:54
  And this needs to be dealt with multilaterally.
• 43:57
  We cannot and we should not have to get the burden of entering a revolution that's been going on for 40 years to make things worse for them.
• 44:08
  Because what we did on that Operation Midnight Hammer, yes, it did serve the U.S. purpose for dismantling their nuclear activities, but it made the people's lives worse.
• 44:23
  I told you, the navigation system is down, the business is down.
• 44:26
  So the economy was deteriorated more. So we didn't do any good for the people. We served our strategic interests, which is good for U.S., for us. But then at this point, if we do something wrong and if they suffer a lot of casualties, then we would have a lot of our bases attacked.
• 44:46
  Then we would have our, you know, our military would be at risk every time they would go to the region.
• 44:51
  Our soldiers, even if they go to a bazaar, some kid who lost like all the family members is going to do something to harm that, you know, 18 year old Marine who just, you know, deployed from Ohio.
• 45:04
  So I don't think it's in our interest to go unilaterally and try to do this, in my opinion.
• 45:12
  Does it break my heart that I see Iranians die?
• 45:15
  Yes, but by launching more bombs, we're not serving them.
• 45:21
  Well, there's a couple of things with that, too.
• 45:22
  There's no guarantee.
• 45:24
  We have zero actual guarantee that Iran does not have nuclear capability.
• 45:29
  We don't really.
• 45:30
  Right.
• 45:31
  We have no definite confirmation that they don't have access.
• 45:36
  And with the relationship with Russia, who's to say they haven't had given them anything themselves.
• 45:41
  and beyond that what you said is
• 45:44
  I mean you make a great point like why is Qatar
• 45:46
  not stepping up why is Turkey
• 45:49
  not doing anything Syria for example
• 45:51
  and I know there's a lot of unrest
• 45:53
  going on in Syria
• 45:55
  right now but I mean at the same time
• 45:57
  I mean look our largest
• 45:59
  base of operations
• 46:01
  like CENTCOM is right there
• 46:03
  in Qatar right
• 46:04
  and so we can't risk
• 46:07
  that relationship because we need
• 46:09
  that base of operations right there.
• 46:12
  So it's a tricky thing, right?
• 46:14
  And taking military action,
• 46:17
  it doesn't guarantee the outcome
• 46:19
  that we want
• 46:21
  or is necessarily good for the people,
• 46:22
  as you said,
• 46:22
  because they can retaliate against Israel
• 46:25
  or other allies automatically.
• 46:28
  Also, Qatar and Turkey could say,
• 46:30
  hey, we're going to support
• 46:31
  our Muslim brothers
• 46:32
  and we're going to side with Iran.
• 46:33
  And all of a sudden,
• 46:33
  it turns into something else.
• 46:35
  And it feels like at times
• 46:37
  that was the threat for a while,
• 46:40
  especially Pakistan.
• 46:42
  A few years back,
• 46:43
  was it last year or a few years ago?
• 46:45
  Pakistan, there was an issue.
• 46:46
  I forgot what it was,
• 46:47
  but Pakistan said,
• 46:48
  hey, we will side with Iran
• 46:50
  if we have to
• 46:50
  and support our Muslim brothers.
• 46:52
  And so we have no idea
• 46:54
  what the outcome will be.
• 46:57
  It's very volatile.
• 46:58
  I know we have a lot of people out there
• 46:59
  collecting intel and whatnot,
• 47:00
  but again, a lot of that
• 47:02
  is not easily confirmed and verified
• 47:04
  because it's so locked, right?
• 47:07
  It's so hard to get in and out of that area and get any real information.
• 47:11
  So, I mean, unfortunately, I'm going to have to side with you.
• 47:14
  I don't know what the solution is either.
• 47:15
  I just wondered if you might have had a different take on it, you know?
• 47:18
  No, I mean, the solution is taking non-kinetic solutions.
• 47:23
  I mean, for example, all the European countries can stop working with Iran.
• 47:28
  Can stop, you know, I heard Munich conference, like we drew their invitation for Iran.
• 47:34
  Quick question, though.
• 47:35
  Is that enough?
• 47:36
  Not working?
• 47:36
  Because look, we've already seen sanctions and whatnot don't work.
• 47:40
  I mean, look at Russia.
• 47:41
  Actually, sanctions do work.
• 47:42
  And so what happened was when we had maximum pressure sanction during first Trump administration, the government of Iran was on the verge of paralyze.
• 47:54
  And then when we got four years of change of policy again, then things were more relaxed.
• 48:03
  But sanctions do work and they have been instrumental in curbing their relation, their money. And then so they have to go through China. They have to go through Russia. So, yes, I understand that.
• 48:18
  But, you know, completely not allowing them to to to have a seat at the United Nations, make it like the inner, you know, making that into a human rights issue and then not doing business with them, not interacting with them and and isolating them internationally.
• 48:38
  because we can't just isolate as United States
• 48:42
  and have France and Germany
• 48:45
  and everybody else doing business with them,
• 48:47
  investing, going back and forth,
• 48:50
  getting all the diplomats out,
• 48:52
  getting all the Iranian diplomats
• 48:54
  out of all these countries.
• 48:56
  Don't give them any legitimacy.
• 48:57
  I understand, but that was my point
• 48:59
  about sanctions not working
• 49:00
  because if you look at Russia and China,
• 49:02
  as you said, they created their own system.
• 49:04
  They found a way.
• 49:05
  Even India decided to do business with Russia
• 49:08
  even at the behest of Trump saying, no, please don't.
• 49:11
  Then you're like, we're going to continue to do business.
• 49:14
  There's no guarantee.
• 49:15
  So even if we sanction Iran and continue to do so,
• 49:18
  we're not going to stop them from doing business with Russia or China
• 49:20
  or even Pakistan or maybe even India.
• 49:24
  I don't know.
• 49:24
  I'm just saying there's no absolute guarantees.
• 49:27
  It does weaken them, but it doesn't seem to be enough to just do that.
• 49:31
  So maybe what your solution, the solution you propose is correct.
• 49:36
  Like all of our allies, we need to basically stick to the same plan.
• 49:41
  We all need to shut it down, right?
• 49:44
  And that's the problem.
• 49:45
  You know, we can't let them have opportunities to circumvent any of the sanctions
• 49:51
  or any proposed means of trying to cripple their government through financial means.
• 49:56
  Because as you just said, a lot of European nations are like,
• 49:59
  well, you know, we can still, we'll do a little bit of business with them.
• 50:02
  And that doesn't help the situation whatsoever.
• 50:06
  Right. I mean, look at our Western news outlets.
• 50:10
  They have like Iranian officials.
• 50:12
  They're giving them voice to come and talk.
• 50:15
  Like, we need to stop that.
• 50:16
  We get all these major news networks getting all the presidents.
• 50:21
  If they're not legitimate, they shouldn't be allowed on the soil, on the soil of United Nations.
• 50:26
  If, you know, they have blood on their hands for killing young unarmed girls.
• 50:32
  I mean, why would any country want to deal with that?
• 50:37
  I just don't understand.
• 50:38
  And then what bothers me, I'm not saying United States cannot do more,
• 50:43
  but what I'm saying is like, why is it that U.S. is always responsible for everything?
• 50:48
  And when things go wrong, like, oh, we don't want the next Iraq and Afghanistan.
• 50:52
  But I can make the same case and say Iran could be the next Iraq and Afghanistan.
• 50:57
  True, actually.
• 50:58
  Yeah, you have a great point there.
• 50:59
  And the best example of what we're talking about in terms of the U.S. doesn't need to step into anything is Ukraine and Russia.
• 51:08
  I mean, look, that was literally in Europe's backyard, and they did nothing.
• 51:12
  They did nothing about it until the U.S. finally stepped in and said, okay, here we come.
• 51:18
  We'll help.
• 51:19
  Although we didn't do a lot outside of some funding, right?
• 51:22
  And some weapons, finally, and munitions.
• 51:24
  But at the same time, what stopped the UK and France from getting ahead of that situation and literally cutting Russia off from advancing on Ukraine?
• 51:33
  They did nothing.
• 51:34
  They did nothing.
• 51:35
  They just waited to see what the US was going to do.
• 51:37
  And so you're right.
• 51:38
  It's not our responsibility.
• 51:39
  I mean, they need to step up, as you said.
• 51:43
  Europe needs to step up, as I said.
• 51:45
  These other powers need to step up and take control of these situations.
• 51:49
  They shouldn't have to wait for the U S to get involved because we're not the only people
• 51:53
  that have relationships with these other countries.
• 51:55
  We're not.
• 51:57
  So I am in agreeance with you.
• 51:59
  Let's look,
• 52:01
  here's the thing.
• 52:01
  Uh,
• 52:02
  What's going on in Iran is tragic to the degree that people are being killed for freedom, basically.
• 52:10
  That's what's going on.
• 52:12
  They no longer want to be oppressed.
• 52:13
  They want financial stability.
• 52:14
  They want to live in a free society and be able to just live like anyone else in the world.
• 52:21
  Probably like America, I guess, or most of Europe.
• 52:23
  They just want to be able to exist and live and earn a living.
• 52:26
  I don't think anyone's looking for trouble.
• 52:28
  They just want to be human beings.
• 52:29
  So there are some of like, and I'm not saying that because I have Iranian roots, like there are some of the nicest people and they are very non-religious.
• 52:38
  It doesn't mean like they're non-believer in God, but religion is like a tradition, more like a tradition.
• 52:44
  They're extremely educated.
• 52:47
  Even with all the suppression they have, they advance.
• 52:50
  All these young people are so talented.
• 52:52
  They advance in some of the very unusual because they want to show themselves to the world.
• 52:57
  So they go and get advanced in some of the most unusual science or sports to be able to go overseas to take part in international competitions.
• 53:09
  So they're just really amazing, amazing nation.
• 53:14
  Just like you said, they just want a chance to live, to breathe, and to just be part of this international community.
• 53:19
  community. Yeah, and not
• 53:21
  far from where I live, the town
• 53:23
  over, there's a huge
• 53:25
  Iranian
• 53:26
  community. Like a big community.
• 53:30
  A lot of the families who left when
• 53:31
  the regime took over back in
• 53:33
  79, and their families
• 53:35
  came here, and there's a huge
• 53:37
  community. And I deal with them. I talk
• 53:39
  to them all the time. They're just
• 53:41
  people. They're just people, and most of them are actually Catholic.
• 53:45
  So it's
• 53:46
  like you said,
• 53:46
  it's more of like a
• 53:49
  religion as a custom, more or anything, right?
• 53:54
  Rather than buying into it necessarily.
• 53:56
  It's just going through the traditions of it, I would guess.
• 54:02
  But great community, never have a problem with anybody.
• 54:05
  They're all hardworking.
• 54:05
  They own businesses.
• 54:06
  They do everything.
• 54:07
  And I think that's what Iran needs to be.
• 54:09
  They need to have that ability to turn back to what it was pre-1978-79
• 54:14
  so that they can continue to exist again and contribute to the world.
• 54:19
  So I'm pulling for them.
• 54:21
  I know you are.
• 54:22
  I think the world wants this.
• 54:24
  Anybody who says that it's a bad thing,
• 54:26
  I just don't understand where they're coming from
• 54:28
  for the uranium people to live free.
• 54:30
  It doesn't make any sense to me.
• 54:32
  Let me move on a little bit from this topic
• 54:35
  because, I mean, you've said a lot
• 54:37
  and it's still developing.
• 54:38
  So we don't know where this is all going to go.
• 54:40
  Hopefully, it turns out to be positive,
• 54:42
  to be quite honest.
• 54:43
  I want to get your opinion.
• 54:45
  Let's circle back to journalism.
• 54:46
  I want to get your opinion on a few things
• 54:48
  because we kind of talked about this offline.
• 54:49
  truth tellers, for example, the people who tell the truth,
• 54:52
  diligently go out of their way to expose the truth,
• 54:54
  do their due diligence, don't seem to get the ear of the people
• 54:58
  or the attention on social media that people do
• 55:01
  that literally just sensationalize journalism.
• 55:04
  I mean, they're not really journalists.
• 55:05
  What can you tell people to look out for?
• 55:10
  And what is exactly your opinion when it comes to social media?
• 55:13
  Because people believe social media is the news.
• 55:16
  Like, no matter what it is, that's what's happening.
• 55:19
  What's your take on that?
• 55:22
  We really got to be careful.
• 55:23
  I think if somebody asked me what's the number one danger in the United States, it's the, I would say, uneducated consumers of information.
• 55:35
  And I mean that.
• 55:37
  It's dangerous.
• 55:38
  Because I noticed, I've covered Iran for like 20 years.
• 55:42
  And right now, I read something that was so disturbing on IRGC Telegram account.
• 55:49
  They said if U.S. tries to launch a military attack, you know, their bases and the hotel that some of the high officials, American officials are staying there, high ranking military officials, it would be a target.
• 56:06
  So I saw many, many so-called high reputation news outlets saying Iran is threatening U.S. bases in the region and the hotel that the military officials are staying without mentioning said if you attack us.
• 56:30
  Right I not defending Iran position but this is a very dangerous practice in journalism where you don fully say the full sentence It curating the message
• 56:42
  Yes, because the people who are, you know, who are making the decision at the White House or, you know, all the other places to go or not to launch an attack.
• 56:52
  If the person who's monitoring the news, who's giving that wrong information, then it changes the whole dynamic.
• 57:01
  So you have a responsibility to tell the truth.
• 57:05
  And it's bad now.
• 57:07
  A person gets to repost that, repost that.
• 57:10
  So you get all these reposts of something that's half true.
• 57:15
  So that's just one example.
• 57:16
  How frustrating is it for someone like you with actual journalistic
• 57:20
  integrity who has been doing this for so long to, for example,
• 57:26
  if you put something out that's true,
• 57:28
  it's almost like you don't get the same traction as some other sensationalized
• 57:32
  internet star or whatever.
• 57:36
  And it's like you said, they're just curating the message.
• 57:39
  They're taking these clips and these cuts from video in a specific manner
• 57:43
  and way just to get eyeballs.
• 57:44
  and then people take just that clip
• 57:46
  as the facts and the whole story.
• 57:50
  And it's like,
• 57:50
  this is one of my sayings I always say.
• 57:51
  I always tell everyone,
• 57:53
  I say it all the time,
• 57:54
  people live on the surface of information.
• 57:56
  It's all about the headline.
• 57:57
  They don't want to go further.
• 57:59
  And I think,
• 58:00
  I completely agree with you, by the way.
• 58:01
  It's on education,
• 58:02
  but also the lack of wanting to go
• 58:04
  and know more about it.
• 58:07
  Like digging down deeper and saying,
• 58:08
  okay, for example,
• 58:10
  Iran's going to attack the US.
• 58:13
  Okay.
• 58:13
  if I read that I'd be like what's going on with that
• 58:15
  most people don't do that they just see
• 58:17
  Iran's gonna attack the US and then oh my god
• 58:19
  they repost it yeah
• 58:20
  and they believe it like for its face
• 58:23
  value what can
• 58:25
  we do to get people to dig
• 58:26
  deeper like dig beyond the headline I mean does it
• 58:29
  start in the school system
• 58:30
  like I think we need like
• 58:33
  I'm serious a need to
• 58:35
  a movement to
• 58:37
  have critical
• 58:39
  critical
• 58:41
  skills for critical thinking skills for reading, consuming news, because it's dangerous. It could
• 58:47
  be, I mean, it could be, or I see a lot of girls or I even see some family members mentioning stuff
• 58:54
  about diet, about this medication. I'm like, no, that's true. I mean, if you see, there's a lot of,
• 58:59
  you know, there, there's a lot of pharmaceutical stuff behind it or, or, or, and it, they've gotten
• 59:06
  so good right now, the information operation has been so good right now. If let's say you're a
• 59:13
  lawmaker or you're some kind of a lobby group, not all, I mean, Iran did this for many years.
• 59:19
  They still do it and there are reports of it. So Iran went to all these different countries in
• 59:24
  Venezuela, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, they hire local reporters to push their own propaganda.
• 59:31
  So you hear in Venezuela, I mean, some of the press TV, the Venezuela sections and like in Iraq, in Afghanistan, they're so popular because you hear that in your own local accent and language.
• 59:50
  So the same thing is happening in America. If a think tank likes something, if they want to, let's say, push for abortion or no abortion or like push for Obamacare or not Obamacare.
• 1:00:03
  So they go and talk to a lot of reporters who are aligned thinkers of pro-abortion or anti-abortion.
• 1:00:12
  Oh, according to such and such this, there's been that many abortion or lack of abortion.
• 1:00:17
  But if you look back, it's very strategic because they're trying academically to push an agenda.
• 1:00:26
  And then you're like, oh, everyone was reporting about it.
• 1:00:28
  Because, yeah, and then you get people, like-minded people to retweet, repost.
• 1:00:34
  So, yeah, it's very dangerous.
• 1:00:35
  I say to everyone, just please be critical thinkers, readers.
• 1:00:40
  And it's literally the case of if you control the narrative, you control the opinions, you control the minds of others.
• 1:00:47
  And that's what's going on in the media and money talks.
• 1:00:50
  I'm sorry, but that's just it.
• 1:00:51
  I mean, that's why a lot of these true independent journalists aren't getting out there because
• 1:00:55
  they can't fight the money that this big media have to keep pushing their crap all over the
• 1:01:02
  place.
• 1:01:03
  And so that's all they see.
• 1:01:04
  So that also helps It like just if you just flooding that zone without misinformation that all you going to see Like even on google whatever you want to do in search it like those are going to keep popping up versus people are telling the truth because you just
• 1:01:14
  can't compete with that it's like it's like you can't drink out of a fire hose right and if all
• 1:01:19
  if all you get out of the fire hose is misinformation eventually that's that's what
• 1:01:23
  you're going to start believing unfortunately but ask you a question though um how how does a person
• 1:01:30
  like yourself, for example, who gets into journalism to tell the truth,
• 1:01:35
  how does someone newer coming up into this that wants to do what you do, for example,
• 1:01:40
  how do we keep them from taking that temptation of sensationalizing
• 1:01:44
  so that they can get the attention they want on social media?
• 1:01:47
  What can you tell someone who is trying to get into this
• 1:01:51
  to stay on the path of telling the truth
• 1:01:54
  and not be veered over to just taking the money or the likes and clicks?
• 1:01:57
  it's kind of inevitable and it and i see it more and more um people not being able to survive it
• 1:02:07
  like you say and eventually they either isolate themselves or um i mean i i isolated myself after
• 1:02:16
  a while i i went and did teaching and i got my master's and i went into research world for a
• 1:02:23
  while because like you said, I couldn't keep up and I was getting, I was getting smacked from all
• 1:02:29
  sides too. Like nobody at that point, nobody likes you because you know, you're like you said,
• 1:02:35
  you're just telling the truth and that's all you're saying. And like, you're asking a question.
• 1:02:40
  So why, why should we sign for this bill? Or why should I vote for you? Or if you say something
• 1:02:46
  negative, then you're anti-Christian, anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, then you get hate from Muslims.
• 1:02:51
  And I used to get hate from all these groups.
• 1:02:54
  And it's like, I'm none of the above.
• 1:02:56
  And I'm all of the above to you because, and I even had people, you know, you're not, you shouldn't just promote America.
• 1:03:06
  You're Iranian.
• 1:03:07
  I'm like, no, I'm a U.S. citizen.
• 1:03:08
  And I swore to be a good citizen.
• 1:03:11
  And I'm a U.S. citizen.
• 1:03:12
  U.S. is my first national interest now, not Iran, you know.
• 1:03:16
  And I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for saying that right now.
• 1:03:20
  Yeah.
• 1:03:20
  It doesn't mean I don't care, but you got to be honest.
• 1:03:26
  And those people that are not honest, they're not doing us any favors.
• 1:03:31
  It's tricky, right?
• 1:03:33
  Right.
• 1:03:34
  It's tricky.
• 1:03:36
  I can keep going if you want, but let's talk about your book because I do want to let people know about that because your journey is interesting.
• 1:03:46
  You've only given us a little bit, by the way, and it's only because the conversation wasn't primarily about your journey, but you did give us a lot already.
• 1:03:54
  What you did working for the government in Afghanistan, working for Voice of America, becoming a journalist, starting in LA, etc.
• 1:04:03
  Can you tell us more about where people can get your book to read about your story?
• 1:04:07
  Sure.
• 1:04:08
  My book, Serving Without a Uniform, Reporting Truth in Defense of Freedom, it's on Amazon.
• 1:04:16
  and you can get a Kindle copy
• 1:04:18
  or you can get a hard copy.
• 1:04:21
  Basically, I talk about my fight to tell the truth
• 1:04:24
  and you shouldn't give up.
• 1:04:28
  And while there's so much opposition,
• 1:04:31
  but there's also a lot of people who you meet
• 1:04:34
  that are gonna cite with you and gonna help you.
• 1:04:37
  And I talk about that.
• 1:04:38
  It also gives a lot of voice to our military members
• 1:04:42
  who served like all these wars.
• 1:04:45
  We never talk about them that, you know, they, they truly serve.
• 1:04:48
  And what I mentioned, the reason I was pausing for that launching military attack, because
• 1:04:54
  I, the opening of my book, it's a tribute to a Marine who wrote a letter to his mom
• 1:05:01
  before he was killed in Helmand, Afghanistan.
• 1:05:06
  He was 22, had several combat tours.
• 1:05:09
  And he talks about like the letter talks about the purity of his intention.
• 1:05:15
  So when you read this and a 22-year-old goes and dies, we're responsible for what he has done.
• 1:05:24
  And every time we make a decision, we have to remember these guys.
• 1:05:28
  I remember one of our Major General Campbell, actually, he had a pocket right here.
• 1:05:37
  He had a list of all the soldiers who was killed as he was a general So he said this I carry with me all the time Every time we making a major decision I open this I look at my list and I show other
• 1:05:51
  people. These are not just names. These are the people that I carry with. So I think those are
• 1:05:57
  some of the human aspects of it that when we get so emotional, we don't look at both ways. So we
• 1:06:04
  need to, I talk about how being more fact-based and basically, you know, not giving up in world
• 1:06:13
  and, and being a good immigrant and paying back to America and helping other people and just,
• 1:06:21
  just being part of the community. I mean, it's an easy read. It's, it's just my story,
• 1:06:26
  hopefully to inspire, inspire others and bring some hope to this dark world.
• 1:06:31
  Right. My nephew is a Marine. So, you know, what you said is true. It's like they make the decision for all the right reasons and they want to defend this great nation or this way of life. And unfortunately, you know, they're not making decisions on why they're there or what they're doing. And I've often said, it's like, why can't, why can't we just get these world leaders to fight in the ring and they can battle it out instead of using, you know, all of our young people as pawns.
• 1:06:58
  you know it's just ridiculous that because a government has a has a disagreement or world
• 1:07:04
  leader has a disagreement with another all of a sudden it's like send the troops it's like no how
• 1:07:07
  about you guys fight it out let's see what happens right how about if you send your daughters and
• 1:07:12
  right right so yeah a lot of people don't understand the direct connection sometimes between
• 1:07:19
  uh what's going on with our leadership or anybody's leadership and what these troops go through
• 1:07:26
  and what they decide why they got involved
• 1:07:29
  versus what they face once they have to deploy or get out there.
• 1:07:33
  Sure.
• 1:07:34
  Yeah, I really recommend whoever comes to D.C.,
• 1:07:37
  they should pay a visit to Arlington Cemetery.
• 1:07:41
  They see all these people who've died.
• 1:07:44
  But for example, what we did in Normandy,
• 1:07:48
  if you think about it, it was not good.
• 1:07:51
  We lost so many people, but it was justified.
• 1:07:53
  but like whatever war wrap we're doing,
• 1:07:57
  are they justified?
• 1:07:58
  What are we gaining by it?
• 1:08:00
  True.
• 1:08:01
  So.
• 1:08:02
  True.
• 1:08:03
  Well,
• 1:08:04
  I'm thinking we're going to wrap it up
• 1:08:05
  if you're okay with that.
• 1:08:06
  Absolutely.
• 1:08:07
  I wouldn't mind having you back though.
• 1:08:08
  I think we have a lot more to discuss.
• 1:08:11
  I'm going to monitor this Iran situation
• 1:08:13
  and maybe I'll check in with you later
• 1:08:15
  and see how this unfolds
• 1:08:16
  but I appreciate all your insight I do
• 1:08:18
  and I appreciate everything you had to offer
• 1:08:21
  in terms of,
• 1:08:22
  you know,
• 1:08:22
  what it takes to be a journalist
• 1:08:24
  and really standing up for journalistic integrity
• 1:08:27
  and telling the truth.
• 1:08:28
  Because as you said, and it's true,
• 1:08:30
  there's not enough people like you
• 1:08:32
  that are out there that are still speaking the truth.
• 1:08:35
  It really isn't.
• 1:08:36
  Too many people are chasing the likes,
• 1:08:37
  the sensationalism of it.
• 1:08:39
  It's almost like they want to live the rock star life
• 1:08:41
  rather than be the truth teller.
• 1:08:43
  And I think that's a major problem we have.
• 1:08:46
  But anything you want to say in regards to Iran
• 1:08:49
  before we end this?
• 1:08:50
  I mean, you know, to any Iranian, whether inside Iran or outside, our hearts go up to you.
• 1:08:58
  And I'm sure everyone in the U.S. government has got your back.
• 1:09:03
  Having your back doesn't mean we necessarily have to come with military power.
• 1:09:08
  But there are other ways I'm sure it's being negotiated.
• 1:09:10
  And I have trust in this government that will do the right thing to deal with Iran.
• 1:09:16
  And I hope, you know, there will be some peace and they can live their life like the rest of us.
• 1:09:23
  It would be my wish.
• 1:09:25
  Yeah, well said.
• 1:09:26
  I agree with you.
• 1:09:27
  And I think the world leaders, like the world power, especially the U.S., we do want what's right for Iran.
• 1:09:33
  But we've got to do it the right way.
• 1:09:35
  Definitely.
• 1:09:37
  Thank you very much.
• 1:09:38
  And please stay in touch.
• 1:09:41
  And we'll catch up.
• 1:09:42
  Devils hide behind redemption, honesty is a one-way gate to hell
• 1:10:12
  you