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How Bioidentical Pellets Solve Low Energy and Sleep Problems in Menopause: What Every Woman Should Know · Hormone Heroes with Dr. Kelly Hopkins

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Hormone Heroes, where I share testimonials from real people who have experienced bioidentical hormone therapy.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Men and women share the symptoms they have experienced and the difference proper hormone replacement has made.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, dr Kelly Hopkins, and I have been in the functional medicine space for over 30 years, with a focus on hormones for 20 years.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Please keep in mind this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Please consult with your physician or practitioner for medical advice.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Let's get started with today's guest.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Hi, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Today we have Dr Ann Trestle.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: She is a MD from Little Rock, arkansas.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: She's a 58-year-old female and she is a retired internal medicine physician, and now she owns SayBella MedSpa.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So shout out to SayBella Welcome, ann.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you, so excited to have you on today, so just tell us a little bit more about you.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I have four children, ages 24 to 31, and I practice in Little Rock.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I went through menopause at about 43, was miserable for two years and didn't want to take synthetics.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: But I thought I was miserable because of husband 1.0, didn't realize it was menopause that was making me so miserable.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: But I also used to be a long distance runner so I noticed, you know, I was having a lot of fatigue and my thyroid, everything else looked okay.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: So I thought it must be menopause.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And when I tried bioidentical creams I just got very mixed results because I'm sure I had different absorption rates when I would have, you know, a long run and sweat and get rid of some of the cream and those kind of things.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, and get rid of some of the cream and those kind of things.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, so before we dive into the depth of your personal hormone journey, give us a little more about your background, your education.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, I attended University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, graduated with honors in research.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Let me see how many centuries ago that was.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: So that was in 1995.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: And then I no, that was in research.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Let me see how many centuries ago that was so, that was in 1995.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And then I no, that was in 1992.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: And then I did my internal residency and finished in 1995.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Then I practiced internal medicine for about 30 years, retired and opened Sabella Med Spa in 2010.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: And after I retired I went back and got board certified in anti-aging and regenerative medicine and then did a fellowship in aesthetics as well.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: So we've had the Med Spa now for about 14 years here in Little Rock.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: That's incredible.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: And the Anti-Aging Academy?
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: That's through A4M, correct?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: A4m, yes, which is fantastic.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: So any of you physicians out there that would like to further your education in anti-aging hormone replacement, a4m is a fantastic place to do that.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: So what made you want to switch from internal medicine to med spa?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Too much interference from the government and from insurance and it was at the time that they were mandating electronic medical records.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And as a solo practitioner that was going to cost me $100,000 at the time, which was a price I could never recoup, and I really didn't want to join a big group.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I liked with just me, my nurse and a receptionist.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, and lots of puppy dogs too, correct?
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: yes, yes, not every place was amenable to me bringing a couple dogs to work every day so back to you at age 43 other than fatigue and being miserable in general, what?
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: else was going on with you.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Did you have any other symptoms?
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: You know I'm one of these that never had the typical hot flash night sweats, but I absolutely would not sleep, uh, if I didn't take the biggest dose of Ambien every night.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I just didn't sleep, I could literally lay awake all night.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Then I developed depression was never suicidal, but if I were in a car by myself and cross the median and a truck hit me head on, I don't think I would have cared.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness, that's just how down I was.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I would have cared.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: That's just how down I was.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so sad, and I think that will speak to a lot of other people in the same position.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: You're feeling miserable.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was used to doing, you know, four or five things at once and different projects going, and I did well to focus on one thing at a time and felt like I didn't do it very quickly.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and you are a go-getter.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Probably Would you say you're type A.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, a plus, plus probably.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Awesome Okay, so what?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: scared you away from the synthetics the risk of breast cancer strokes.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: You know I never smoked but I had a young female patient when I was doing internal medicine.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: She also did not smoke.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Her only risk factor for a stroke was breast control pills.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness she was taking correctly and it just scared me.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the Women's Health Initiative study was enough to make me nervous.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And then when I had a young female just on birth control pills with no other risk factors, who had a stroke, I just really wanted to steer away from synthetics.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good choice there.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So what are you on currently and how long?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: So I'm on the bioidentical hormone pellets.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I in Arkansas we knew nobody around here did them and I literally got online, started searching for alternatives to the creams and found out about pellets so went to Texas at the time, learned about those had a really really good mentor too from that company at the time.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Learned about those had a really really good mentor too from that company at the time and I got them myself and started providing them to patients, fantastic.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So that's been about 14 years ago or so.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, and within a week and a half I was completely off Ambien and I've not taken any since.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So, speaking of other medications, do you take anything else for anything?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: At the time I got on the pellets I was on 120 milligrams of Cymbalta and 300 milligrams of Welbutrin, still depressed.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: But once I got on the pellets and they were on board for a couple of weeks I started to feel better.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Now I just take 60 milligrams of Cymbalta.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I basically call it my red ass pill.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: It kind of keeps me level.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: It's been to retreat depression.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But I think my office staff appreciates when I take my 60 milligrams.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Just eat out just your little 60, keep you steady.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I think it's that type A personality.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but off the Welbutrin, off the Cymbalta, no need for Xanax or anything like that.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Of course, the pellets just have estrogen and testosterone in them.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: So I take progesterone at night protect my uterus and really, since it's the hormone that helps you sleep it's wonderful.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Do you take any thyroid medication?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I'd had hypothyroidism before I ever went through menopause, but as I progressed through menopause I never needed a higher dose and now finally leveled out.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: So what do you take for your thyroid?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I take Nature Throid.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I take the desiccated pork thyroid because my problem was my T4 was okay but my free T3 was always still low Okay.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So I just switched to desiccated pork thyroid, nature Throid, np thyroid's, another one armor thyroid and physically felt like I had more energy, but now my free T3 is around 3.1.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, perfect.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So for any of you that might be wondering, what we're talking about here with the thyroid is that it's important to have a combination of T4 and T3.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: That office staff of yours, what are we going to do with them?
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're loud.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: I came in another room.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Well, they want to come find you always, I'm sure.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: So a lot of patients will just take levothyroxine or Synthroid, which is a T4 medication only, and your body has to convert it over to T3 to use it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: So that's why a lot of physicians will put their patients on the combination pills like Natrathroid, armour, mp, thyroid, etc.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: So that's fantastic.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Do you take any vitamins or supplements?
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I take vitamin E and evening primrose oil just basically for breast health.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, I do take vitamin D 50,000.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I use once a week because my vitamin D level was low and then apparently I do not absorb B12 at all, so I have to have a B12 shot twice a week, goodness.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so other than having more energy and being able to get off or decrease your SSRIs and things like that, is there anything else that you noticed as a good benefit?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my sex drive was much, much better, and that wasn't just because I got husband 2.0.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: You said it, not me.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It got even better then.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: But no, I mean my sex drive improved, just the quality of my skin.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: It didn't feel dry, my skin didn't feel crepey, I didn't feel like I bruised as easily.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Lots of women complain about me, about vaginal dryness when they go through menopause, but that was not a symptom that I had.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I was able to focus better, go back to, you know, having a combination of a little bit of OCD and ADD, so I could do a lot of things, but I had to get them all done as opposed to struggling through one project a day.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So, as a physician that helps her patients with hormone therapy this way, do you have any crazy clinical stories or fun clinical stories from your patients that are on pellets?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I have some that feel so strongly about it.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: They swear they can tell when they get off the table they're better.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: They can't, but they feel that strongly about it.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I do have one.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It was actually a couple who came in.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: She thought she was going through menopause and she was perimenopausal, and so, while she was here, she thought, well, he should just have his lab checked too.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: In fact, his testosterone was a little low, and they're both 42.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And so I did hormone replacement therapy on both of them.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And, as I tell everybody, if you still have a uterus and ovaries and you're perimenopausal and you're not 80 years old, you have to be careful to not get pregnant.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: You do need to use some other form of birth control, because that's the possibility.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I got a call about two months after I put their pellets in, uh-huh, and they would only talk to me and she was pregnant.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, they had spent tens of thousands of dollars with in vitro fertilization to have their last baby.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Wow, and all it took was just balancing their hormones.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: So did they.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Are they naming the baby?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: So I said are you calling to thank me or blame me?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And she said, no, no, no, call it to thank you.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: We're delighted, and I mean, he's a teenager now.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's probably the craziest story I have.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Did they name the baby Ann?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Well, no.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: It was a boy, though, so that's pretty good, oh, okay, okay, they didn't name him Andy either.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Oh well, shoot.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Well, that's awesome, I will say.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: In our clinic, just by balancing female hormones that wanted to get pregnant, We've had four or five babies born, but you know they were trying, they were looking to get pregnant.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of giving the body back what it's missing in most cases.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: So, personally, have you noticed any side effects from since you've started pellets or anything you have to deal with?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: The first time I got pellets I noticed that I had a little bit of tenderness in my nipples, and it's not uncommon for patients to tell me that if they've been without estrogen for two or three years, like I was and it wasn't my whole breast, just the nipples, my hands the first time felt a little puffy.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: It went away on its own.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: If my patients feel like their rings are hard to get on, then I may give them a little hydrochlorothiazide for a few days.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: But that hasn't happened since then.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, good, and with the testosterone I did not grow a beard, I didn't go postal, my voice didn't change.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: When I went through menopause I started to have a little few of those black hairs grow on my chin.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so those grow a little faster.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: You know little catfish hair.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: But I just get laser about once a year and that takes care of that.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, but no side effects.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Time to time I'm sure you provide laser hair removal, oh yeah.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we give a special price to our hormone patients who think they look like a catfish, but it's really not bad.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: But it keeps them from having to pluck or wax or whatever we give them a special price and it takes about 10 minutes to do.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and when we're young and healthy we produce, as females, we produce 10 times more testosterone than we do estrogen, and so we're all trained to give it back about in that ratio.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: And so then you add the progesterone and you can really keep the hair growth, you know, at a minimum.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: For sure I've had patients say that it's just worth it to deal with a little bit of chin hair.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I just shave every day if I had to, as opposed to without my pellets.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So is there anything else you'd like to say about how hormone therapy has changed your life?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: You're looking forward to retirement with your husband.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I am looking forward to retirement because I actually have the energy to travel and do the things I want to do with the person I want to do them with.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: You know we were opening two vet schools in Arkansas.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I mean I have enough energy and enough fortitude that if I retired from the med school I wouldn't mind being a vet.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: You know, at 58 years old.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Your favorite little creatures you get to treat them.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: When you have 12 dogs, it's really more financially feasible to pay for veterinary school than it is to take care of 12 dogs for a decade.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Oh that's great.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Is your husband on hormone therapy?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: He is on testosterone shots, okay, and I've offered him pellets, but he's a plumber and so he just prefers the shots.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he does.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: He is on testosterone shots.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: My dad, until he passed away at 86, was on testosterone simply because it protected his bones and helped his mental clarity.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: He had more energy, maintained his muscle mass as much as you can maintain in an 86-year-old.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So, would you say, you and your husband will be on hormone replacement for the rest of your life.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: The oldest couple I've had come in were from Springfield, Missouri.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: They were newlyweds, they were 82 and 83.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's never too late.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And they both got pellets because they wanted to have an active sex life and travel and do stuff.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah good for them.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: So, dr Trestle, as a hormone hero, what would you like to say to our audience?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: When you're choosing hormones.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I think, first of all, it's important to go the bioidentical route.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: For men, that's testosterone shots, whether it's creams or pellets.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: For men and women.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I think the bioidentical route is much better than the synthetics.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: It's much safer.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Can you describe the difference for our audience?
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: the difference between bioidenticals and synthetics.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, so bioidenticals, like the hormone pellets are actually made out of sweet potatoes yams, if you're from up north and they extract from sweet potato the hormone.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: That's exactly like we used to make.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I've always thought somebody had to be on LSD to even think to check that, but they did.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And you know, through a process in the lab they compress this hormone down to these little pellets.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Well, literally, I've got the ingredient list.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: The only thing that's in these pellets besides the hormone is a tiny bit of stearic acid and a tiny bit of sterile water just to hold them together.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: But when you're taking synthetic like primarin primpro esterase, that is not hormone.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: That's natural to our body.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Uh, some of them are made out of pregnant, for sure, and horses actually have 40 different estrogens, whereas I think of us as having three main ones.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So that's where a lot of side effects and increased risk of cancer and strokes comes from.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And with bioidentical you can adjust the dosage.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: The testosterone comes in eight or 10 different doses.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: The estrogen comes in about 10 different doses, so it's really more individualized to each person, based on your lab, your medical history, full symptom questionnaire, and always when I blog or when I post on social media I always tell patients make sure that you pick a provider who listens to you, not just draws lab, puts numbers in a computer and gives you some pellets.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Very good advice.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: You know the definition of menopause is you haven't had a period for a year.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Do those symptoms start right when that happens or before?
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: At least once a week I post on social media.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Symptoms of menopause start long before you stop having a period and that's when you need to be treated, not when you've been without a period for a year.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: My 34-year-old esthetician didn't sleep well the flip.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I checked her hormones.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Everything was fine, except for her progesterone.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: It was very low.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Put her on progesterone, she felt fine.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I have some women whose periods have started to become very irregular, but their provider doesn't want to put them on hormones because she's having a period.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: You check their labs their progesterone's low, their testosterone's low, but their estrogen may still be fine.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Yep, and so I.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: You know I treat them with testosterone progesterone.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: But, as you know, they progress through the next two to three years.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Their estrogen is going to drop too.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But with the bioidentical hormone pellets it's so easy to adjust a dose based on symptoms that you can make a game time decision the day they come in if you need to.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So how often do your patients or you yourself try to get pellets?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: patients, or you yourself, try to get pellets.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: When I was running, I was very lucky to get three months out of my pellets, but I mean running, like you know, marathons or longer.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I was very lucky to get three months out of my pellets.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Now that my metabolism is slower and I'm 58, my pellets last like four to four and a half months.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have some patients that they last up to six months.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I had two patients who only get hormones every eight months and I'm sure that their hormone levels are low if I test their lab.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: But they feel good, they're not having hot flashes, they don't want to kill anybody.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: So I really wait for patients to call me and say I think my pellets are wearing off and if it's been, you know, at least 90 days.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I figure they know their body better than the lab does.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So that's what we go with Me and my pellets consistently for me every five months.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, having an aesthetic med spa.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: How do the hormone pellets, or hormones in general, work with the other things that you offer there in your med?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: spa.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Now, a lot of times when people come in with skin concerns, I mean, one of the first questions I ask them is well, are you on hormones?
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Because if they're not, that usually explains a lot of the laxity and some of the wrinkles that they're seeing, the dullness.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: But we also offer a treatment called Emcella for urinary incontinence and we offer Emfim, which is vaginal rejuvenation, and I have a lot of crossover between they come in for hormones.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm here, Can I get my Botox?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So we all have dual appointments.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: It's the perfect marriage between aesthetics on the outside and then you're working with the hormones and wellness on the inside.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else you'd like to add?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Are there any books or podcasts or anything else you would recommend to our audience?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: You?
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: have the best podcast out there.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Everybody should be listening to your podcast.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I learned so much at A4M about how to treat underlying causes as opposed to just treating symptoms.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, if there are any other providers out there, even if you didn't want to go get board certified in anti-aging and regenerative medicine, it would be well worth signing up for A4M hormone classes just to learn.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Or find somebody like Biopellic Consultants that you know actually come teach you how to do them and you know, have resources that you can contact if you need help.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Sure, thank you for that.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Also even Suzanne Summers' books.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: She has a wealth of information compiled.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, she does.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: You know God rest her soul for that.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: She was one of the originals and there's just a lot of good information out there that there's another book called Nobody Wants you Healthy, which is an incredible book that talks about the benefits of testosterone in particular.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Another one's Testosterone for Life and how you and your doctor can treat breast cancer in particular.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Another one's Testosterone for Life and how you and your Doctor Can Treat Breast Cancer, prostate Cancer and Alzheimer's is another good one.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: There's just a wealth of information if patients will seek it out for sure too.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Well, anne, I so appreciate you taking time out of your busy practice to share your story with us.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: If anyone would like to find anything we have referenced, it'll be in the show notes.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So anything else, ann, before we let you go, I don't think so, but I appreciate you having me on today and it's always good to see you, always good to talk to you.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll have to have dinner soon.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Absolutely All right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Ann.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Ripping the walls since it felt like this, this All right.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Anne.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Hormone Heroes.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Take a moment to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you don't miss the next episode While you are there, help us spread the word by leaving a rating and a review.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: If you need help finding a practitioner in your area, just email us at drkelly at hormoneheroesorg that's D-R-K-E-L-L-Y at H-O-R-M-O-N-E-H-E-R-O-E-S dot org.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you.