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Authentic Leadership Tips to Sustain a Global Recognition Movement with Sarah McVanel · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:36
  It's, Roxanne Derhodge of Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:39
  Thanks for tuning in, again, this week.
• 0:42
  Have a favorite person of mine on the line.
• 0:46
  Sarah is, located here in, the Niagara Region as while me, I've been doing a fair amount of
• 0:52
  work with Sarah over the years, and she's been on my podcast before, but we were having
• 0:57
  conversation about What would be the kind of the spot right now that would be relevant for
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  us to have a conversation around and I am, you know, writing a book on authentic leadership.
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  And the one area that I seem to be coming up against is, how is it that leaders stay
• 1:17
  connected to themselves?
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  And one of the most important things that happens when leaders stay connected to
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  themselves is that in fact, what they do is they recognize others because they look out
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  side of themselves.
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  And that's that's Sarah's, you know, playhouse.
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  So we thought that that would be an opportunity to chat about things again.
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  Sarah, thanks so much for coming on again.
• 1:39
  Thank you for having me, Roxanne.
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  I I love what you're doing in the world and what you're all about because, you know, really
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  authenticity and and being able to be with people anytime, particularly right now when
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  people are in crisis or when they're confused or they're just not sure of the future leaning
• 1:57
  into authenticity in ourselves and in those relationships.
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  We're able to, you know, make better choices and and perhaps even be better able to manage
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  Sometimes the fact that we don't have many choices or we can't make many choices.
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  So it's always a pleasure to be on your podcast.
• 2:15
  So let's let's talk about, you know, I often think, right, with my background and, in
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  psychotherapy and people think it's okay to be warm in fuzzy when you see someone in in that
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  realm.
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  But, really, I think what's happening now when I think about when I started in consulting,
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  like, 20 years ago, Sarah, the concept was you leave the personal version of who you are at
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  that, you know, corporate front door You drop off the the, you know, the personal Sarah.
• 2:45
  Yes.
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  And then you enter that corporate environments or that that work environment, and then you
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  become let's say working, Sarah.
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  Yes.
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  You do your thing, and then you come back at the door.
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  You pick it up again, and then you go off and you be, you know, mom and and and wife and and,
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  you know, citizen.
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  And we realized we realized that that's in fact at such an archaic concept.
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  Like our rules are mutually exclusive of each other, and our skills and our talents can be
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  compartmentalized like that.
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  Mhmm.
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  Absolutely.
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  I wonder we've been talking about work life balance for so long and have no answers because
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  it's it's almost an unrealistic view of of the reality.
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  It's human beings can't be compartmentalized that way.
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  And when we over compartmentalize, and I'm sure see this in your practice when we overly
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  compartmentalize and we define our identity through our roles and those external markers as
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  you were just referring to, that's when we often minimize the greatness in ourselves and
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  others, and we fail to see it and acknowledge it, particularly in times like this where Our
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  identity in the yardstick of what success and resiliency and coping looks like.
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  It can be different not only one day to the next, but one minute to the next.
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  So I'm I'm glad that we're having this conversation about how things are evolving And
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  I would guess in your practice, you're seeing how we still have farther to evolve and lean
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  into this.
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  Notion of work, Sarah, you know, home Sarah, fitness y, Sarah.
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  I don't know.
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  What would be all the seras?
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  Definitely probably
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  Funny funny, but funny, Sarah.
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  Funny, Sarah.
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  Yeah.
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  Exactly.
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  All the all the labels.
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  Really?
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  I mean, that's that's kind of what we're talking about is is, trying on all the labels
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  as if we can't be all of those those things in in different proportions and how that's really
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  a healthy thing.
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  To get requests from people.
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  And, you know, truly, like, I I know, from doing trainings myself, but I know recently
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  you've been doing a lot more live training again.
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  That's, you know, I I don't know about you, but when you kinda get out there again, it feels
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  odd because we're so accustomed to being in front of people, but now you're in front of
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  people again.
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  What are some of the pressures that you've been seeing people struggle with now that you've
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  kind of out there and and speaking more about, mental, like, I would say mental well-being and
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  also, recognition Like, what what are people really needing?
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  I I think it's almost like we peel down things and and we're really kind of being raw about
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  what's needed to feel okay.
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  Yep.
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  Well, certainly the essential services organizations that have realized that we cannot
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  put off this appreciation event for this this celebration event that is often the reason why
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  I'm brought into work with essential service.
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  Now I work with all kinds of folks, corporate leaders, and help them redefine your people
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  plan and more, you know, women's events and inspirational, sorts of pieces as well.
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  But what I'm doing right now physically with people granted.
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  All of them are mass, physically distance.
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  You know, there's a lot of hoops to jump through.
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  However, we're jumping we're all jumping through the hoops to make it work because
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  people are raw because individuals who are so passionate, who are doing the best they
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  possibly can, and frankly, probably don't see themselves as doing the best they can even when
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  we're in the middle of a of a global health crisis and and working flat out, it's about an
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  opportunity to just ground ourselves and what really matters.
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  And so recognition being able to appreciate ourselves first and being able to see the
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  greatness all around us and take the moment to take stock, and why aren't things worse?
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  How have we been able to draw on reserves that we never knew that we had?
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  What do we need to bring forward to be able to keep going on this marathon?
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  Anyone who's ever done a marathon knows the point where you feel so much pain you hit a
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  wall, that's the defining moment as to if you're gonna finish the marathon or not.
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  And you can train for it and you could get into the mental game for it.
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  But when you hit that wall, you've you have a couple of choices.
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  Do I push through the pain?
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  And on the other side of it, you can finish, Or do you say I that's it.
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  I'm done.
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  And and what's I think really cool and where I don't think we use that metaphor of of the
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  marathon in a really healthy way outside of COVID is that there when we hit the wall and
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  maybe we decide we can't go any further, Usually, that's a debt that's referred to in a
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  negative way.
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  It's that we we, you know, failed.
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  We need to try again.
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  We weren't prepared, we weren't mentally in the game.
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  What I think were you and I are both seeing in our practice, and I certainly am seeing this
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  when I meet with people both live in in in the room with me.
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  And also in the virtual speaking that that I'm doing is that people see there's another
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  alternative.
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  Maybe it's that I'm doing the best I can, and that's good enough.
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  Perhaps it wasn't meant for me to finish the marathon.
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  Perhaps, like, just getting this far was amazing.
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  And and this is the shift that has been happening.
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  There's 2 big shifts that are happening in when it comes to the recognition world.
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  One is that people are realizing that we're doing the best we can.
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  I'm doing the best I can, and I need to be okay with that.
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  And it's a wonderful place of self compassion and other compassion that we can really, honor
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  and lean into.
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  I'm not saying everybody's cracked that formula.
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  I think it's a discipline to be able to keep reminding ourselves of that So there so that's
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  that's the component.
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  The other piece is that we are in a global recognition movement.
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  What happened in the spring with whether you're in Spain or Italy and banging cups for health
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  care workers at 8:30 at night, to putting signs on lawns, thanking essential services workers
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  to doing mass donation campaigns of masks and hand sanitizer when our frontline providers
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  didn't have enough.
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  That was a time where people really rallied around the globe.
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  It was the first time ever as a recognition expert.
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  I didn't have to try to convince people that appreciating others was important.
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  And I just hope that we all keep that momentum going right now.
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  As well as, of course, at long after all of this is over.
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  So that's what I'm finding.
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  It's those those 2 key things.
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  As one is people are realizing We're doing their best or can, and maybe actually the best
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  we could was the best we can has always been good enough and that we finally see how
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  essential it is to recognize the value within ourselves and others and not make it quite so
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  freaking conditional all the damn time.
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  Absolutely.
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  And, you know, if you think about it, you know, in my capacity when, in in corporate
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  consulting, one of my my roles was to respond to traumatic events in companies across Canada.
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  So I'll give you that example.
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  Right?
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  So something traumatic happens within within 24 hours, we're on scene.
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  So I just, you know, would deploy a team.
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  They would get in there, and they would normalize.
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  Yeah.
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  The basics.
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  Right?
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  Psychologically, emotionally, biologically.
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  This is what you're gonna go through.
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  And then within 72 hours, what would happen?
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  It would be called a debriefing.
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  What we would then do is get the core players that were, say, 1st kinda or closely involved
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  with the events to really kinda go through the fact of the events.
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  That being said, if you think about it, environments are kinder and gentler, generally
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  when there's a crisis, Right?
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  We stop.
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  We think there's maybe been a death.
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  There's been downsizing.
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  We stop and we really reflect because that becomes a reflective lens of my goodness.
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  That that could have been me.
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  Right?
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  But with COVID, we're everyone's in that space and I think you're so right.
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  We're getting to a level of connection, that we need to stay connected through because of this
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  adversity, because it's really showed us, while we are, you know, it's pretty impressive what
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  people have done.
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  Like, you've said in the recognition world, but also in the leadership role, what I've seen is
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  that people really dig deep to connect to their to people around them.
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  Yeah.
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  Know, there's only been one, keynote that I've done virtual keynote that I've done lately
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  where all the questions were revolved around, how do I fix people?
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  How do I fix the complainers?
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  How do I fix the the, lack of accountability?
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  What's wrong with people?
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  You know, there's just sort of ongoing.
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  I I every time I try to answer that question with just another nugget or a nuance, then
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  questions keep coming back.
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  And I really I really felt for those leaders that they were in such a place of deficit.
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  And no matter how much focus on recognition and and giving giving people the space and the
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  compassion to, you know, to really, understand that This is this is the time for you to Riley
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  rise as a leader.
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  This is the time for you to not to lack not to have lack of accountability.
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  Have to to to have honest, compassionate, authentic, accountability and who perhaps
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  renegotiate where the goal posts are.
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  In fact, a lot of people in the world, in the working world don't even know where the goal
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  posts are.
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  So we certainly don't know where they are in the COVID world or when we're remote working,
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  issue is not lack of accountability because people are working remotely.
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  Usually, the problem is because people did not know what their poor job was, what, you know,
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  what was most important versus other other priorities.
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  We're working against so many competing priorities.
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  We're constantly trying to juggle those figure those out on the fly, navigate those
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  challenging relationships when what I think is important is different from what you think is
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  important.
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  So it's lowered the waterline on a lot of issues that we had before.
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  And, you know, as I say, apart from that one group where I I look at them with such huge
• 13:03
  compassion and sympathy because I can only imagine how hard it must be for a collection of
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  5, 600 people to collectively be feeling like we have so many people who are underperforming,
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  like, what must that be like as an organization?
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  The other folks that I'm speaking within that I'm seeing are really leaning into this
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  opportunity to have more authentic conversations.
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  Whether it be in team meetings, one on one conversations, one of my clients who did this
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  cool thing where instead of having the quarterly check-in over Zoom, they all got
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  mass, and they invited any family members who wanted to come.
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  And they went apple picking together.
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  Wow.
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  And they had just touch bases because that's what a quarterly check-in is.
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  Performance review check-in is how's it going?
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  Are you on track with your goals?
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  What do you think?
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  What's important to you this year?
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  What's worked well?
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  What's not worked well?
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  Are you do you feel on track.
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  What else do you need from me?
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  You can do that picking apples.
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  You can do that picking up.
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  So why have we been doing it sitting in a room with our our, you know, pants too tight because
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  they were too tight before we all started eating carbs, but being a COVID, let's face it.
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  Yep.
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  Why why don't we?
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  So we're getting more creative.
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  We're getting more curious.
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  Mhmm.
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  And we're able to maybe to your point with the debriefing, there had to be a level of
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  compassion because we were staring down this painful situation.
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  And we knew if we don't deal with it now, we're gonna be dealing with it for weeks, months,
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  years to come.
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  And like you, I've worked with teams where there's been unresolved stuff that has just I
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  mean, it I've done historical scans with teams where we had to go back 35 years to the most
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  tenured person in the room to that's a long time to carry baggage.
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  Like, that's somebody who's got a lot of baggage to check.
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  But it's because it wasn't dealt with.
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  It wasn't processed and it's been hanging around, and we have to be sympathetic to those
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  folks.
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  Now it's maybe the time To to open up the suitcase and pull it out.
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  Sorry if this is sounding very psychobabble to folks, and I'm not meeting it to be because
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  Really, there's a very brave leadership component to all of this.
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  To be willing to say, I'm worried about what's going on here.
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  Are you okay?
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  That takes huge vulnerability because probably one of the things leaders are gonna hear is,
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  actually, there's something that's not working.
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  And it may be something to do with you or at least something you're responsible for.
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  So good on all those leaders who definitely care enough about you know, respectful
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  workplaces and accountability and and so forth.
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  And about the human beings, who aren't just human doers?
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  They're human beings.
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  Carl Rogers said that.
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  Right?
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  We're not we're not human doers for human beings.
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  You know, that's a good point, Sarah.
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  You know, It's wonderful to have the leaders that are aware, and that's in in my kind of
• 16:05
  training and coaching that I'm doing.
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  And then the new book I've just written this all about that.
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  Cause really, if you think about, you know, leaders or people that are in that management
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  role, they get they're pretty kinda, you know, focused and they get a lot done, but they are
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  also the ones that get sick and and and are unrecognized as they get unwell, be it
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  psychologically, emotionally, and and, you know, the bodies are last generally to kind of
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  give out.
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  And and they would show up in kind of the training analysis around short term and long
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  term.
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  However, they can put up with a lot more things before kinda that vein kind of breaks.
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  Mhmm.
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  So what what do you suggest for the ones that are not seeing the things that some of, you
• 16:52
  know, you talked about some of these leaders being so aware.
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  Some of the other leaders that are complaining, like how do I how do I, you know, get more out
• 17:01
  of them, or how do I cut off the complainers?
• 17:03
  What kind of suggestions would you have for leaders like that?
• 17:07
  Mhmm.
• 17:09
  Yeah.
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  My com my suggestion is the same suggestion that I make outside of COVID time.
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  A complaint is a poorly worded request.
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  Your biggest complainers are telling you they need something and they are not getting it.
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  So if you have somebody saying, every time we start a new project, we don't have the tools we
• 17:28
  need.
• 17:28
  Maybe they could be your resource to say, okay.
• 17:31
  Great.
• 17:31
  What do we need when you we we look at the successful projects, what has been in place?
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  We could ask a question.
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  We'd be curious rather than be defensive about it.
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  Mhmm.
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  If somebody says, You know, we play favorites around here.
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  You could say, okay.
• 17:45
  Well, help me understand, when favoritism has shown up.
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  And they may be thinking about a very specific time, and they also could be pointing out some
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  things that we're not seeing as leaders.
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  So assume, again, believing people are doing the best they can, assume that people would
• 18:03
  would give a more possibility oriented, solution oriented perspective if they were
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  resourceful enough and had the words and language and ideas to provide it that way, but
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  in that moment, they don't.
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  And we can ask questions as leaders that can help them get clear on it, leverage a strength,
• 18:26
  and experience a gift.
• 18:28
  They see things leaders.
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  Hear me when I say this.
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  Your staff, see things you're not seeing.
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  And that's not because you're not paying attention.
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  It's not because you're a bad leader.
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  It's not because you don't care.
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  It's that you cannot be everywhere.
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  You can't be everything to everybody.
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  Some people don't tell you things because they care more about keeping their job than telling
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  you something that's not popular or that, you know, maybe in the past, if they set it before,
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  they got in trouble.
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  So remember that people carry that that that workplace trauma of of maybe having had bosses
• 19:03
  who weren't as enlightened as you.
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  So just realize that one of your greatest tools in your toolkit in addition to, of course,
• 19:11
  specifically going out and recognizing people through through specific acknowledgements,
• 19:16
  saying thank you.
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  Building in affirmation and acknowledgement at the front end of your meetings 101 or in team.
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  Also remember, it's that every time somebody Fails to meet a meet a performance objective,
• 19:31
  complaints to you is in civil to a colleague.
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  It is an opportunity to wonder, what am I missing?
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  And and I'm not missing it because I'm a bad leader.
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  I'm missing it because it's normal.
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  It's human, and and I don't wanna miss it.
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  So what do I need to ask and find out about?
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  And this is where the my book flip side of failing comes in because it's the it's it's
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  being able to see things that don't work.
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  As an opportunity to flip it.
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  Right?
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  We've we fail.
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  We learn.
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  It can ignite something, and then we can praise.
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  So it's just messy in the middle of all of that stuff.
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  However, you know, if I if I take this complainer and this negativity and I sit there
• 20:12
  with them in that negative space, You're a problem.
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  You need to be, you know, performance managed.
• 20:17
  You don't belong in this department.
• 20:20
  I could all of see maybe there's there's some some disconnect here.
• 20:24
  This is not, by the way, as a side note, this is not a call to all leaders to not hold people
• 20:29
  accountable.
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  It's actually the opposite.
• 20:31
  When you lean in and you ask people what solutions they have, what ideas they have, what
• 20:37
  would be different if that problem didn't exist?
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  Oh, what what would it look like?
• 20:41
  That's actually holding people more accountable because you're not letting them the hook by
• 20:45
  just being negative and just writing them off as ineffective or, you know, they're never
• 20:51
  gonna change.
• 20:52
  You you were actually being more accountable by being curious about the negativity and what
• 20:59
  suggestions they would have.
• 21:01
  And being collaborative as well, right, because oftentimes when you, you know, talk about those
• 21:05
  quarter quarterly performance evaluation times, it's it's it's one wage sometimes.
• 21:10
  Yeah.
• 21:10
  And when you invite collaboration and you say, how how can I help you?
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  Like, these are the things that we're seeing.
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  What what what skills do you think you need help with?
• 21:19
  What do you need different from me as your leader?
• 21:24
  Right?
• 21:24
  And what do I I'm what things do I I do well.
• 21:27
  Okay.
• 21:27
  That's fine.
• 21:28
  We can park those, but I'm more interested in in this area.
• 21:31
  What could you pivot?
• 21:33
  What could I pivot based on what your needs are to make it more specific.
• 21:37
  That way there's buying on both ends versus it being the one way kind of street.
• 21:42
  And then to your point, then accountability comes at the end of that because I sat across
• 21:47
  from you.
• 21:48
  We had this chat.
• 21:49
  We covered every little pebble and rock, and we we talked about a solution, and then if there's
• 21:55
  not fulvestrant at that point, there's a there's an accountability factor there.
• 21:59
  And I you know, it makes me think about one of the supposed lowest performers that, was
• 22:06
  through a read deployment.
• 22:07
  She was gonna be joining my team.
• 22:08
  I had a vacancy on the team, and and this the other team had a surplus, and so I they The
• 22:15
  leader got a chance to decide who was gonna be redeployed to my team.
• 22:18
  And so perhaps, not surprisingly, she picked a person that was apparently the quote poor
• 22:24
  performer.
• 22:25
  And in fact, she she felt this person was such a poor performer that had advocated right to
• 22:30
  the CEO to fire this person.
• 22:32
  And I worked for a very compassionate CEO who believed that everybody deserved every possible
• 22:37
  opportunity until we absolutely were 100% sure beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 22:41
  It wasn't us.
• 22:42
  It wasn't a lack of process, lack of clarity, and so forth.
• 22:46
  So, reassigning her to somebody new was a good opportunity to test that if if she brought her
• 22:52
  problematic behavior and attitude with her.
• 22:56
  And and I'm the one who does the mediations and coaching and all of that in the organization,
• 23:01
  then probably you're right.
• 23:03
  This person needs to go.
• 23:04
  And I was given 3 months.
• 23:06
  I was told you don't even have to provide an We will we will sever it to her sever her off if,
• 23:13
  you know, if you also are finding the same things.
• 23:16
  So we had a meeting.
• 23:17
  I can remember it like it was yesterday in HR.
• 23:19
  This was 8 years ago.
• 23:20
  And, the human resources professional and, the the outgoing leader and I sat down, and I was
• 23:28
  told under no uncertain terms that this was not gonna work.
• 23:31
  And, Good luck to me.
• 23:34
  And my the person handing her off to me was very like, she was nice.
• 23:38
  It wasn't that she was being malicious.
• 23:40
  She just really did not have any belief that this was gonna work.
• 23:44
  And so, she left.
• 23:47
  The staff member came in, and I said, I'm really looking forward to working with you.
• 23:53
  I've seen lots of great examples of you shining, and now your ability to shine is gonna
• 23:58
  look a little different.
• 24:00
  And you may also be wondering, am I actually going to be able to shine?
• 24:03
  You've not asked to be reassigned to my department.
• 24:06
  There's a big learning curve ahead of you.
• 24:09
  What I'm gonna commit to, I will I'm willing to meet with you up to once a week.
• 24:14
  I'm you're gonna go through a development plan, and I will give you access to everything I can
• 24:19
  afford and that we can make happen.
• 24:22
  We'll get creative if we can't afford it.
• 24:24
  And you'll also be assigned.
• 24:25
  This is non negotiable.
• 24:26
  You're gonna be assigned to a mentor in the department.
• 24:29
  My highest performing senior Organizational development practitioner to mentor you, and you
• 24:34
  need to work with her every week for a minimum of 6 weeks or 6 months unless one or one of
• 24:40
  yours on holiday.
• 24:40
  Otherwise, you guys need to figure it out and make sure you meet.
• 24:43
  But beyond that, you tell me what you need you're very educated.
• 24:47
  You're very skilled.
• 24:48
  You've got a lot of transferable skills.
• 24:50
  Here's the template.
• 24:52
  Tell me what you need from me.
• 24:53
  We're gonna meet on Monday.
• 24:54
  So this was like a Thursday.
• 24:55
  We're gonna meet on Monday.
• 24:57
  She came back to me before the end of the day.
• 24:59
  I got some questions.
• 25:01
  I was thinking I probably need you to learn in these areas.
• 25:03
  Do you have some books?
• 25:04
  Absolutely.
• 25:05
  Do I have books, Roxanne?
• 25:07
  Oh, yeah.
• 25:07
  Do I ever have books?
• 25:08
  Yes.
• 25:09
  No problem.
• 25:10
  So she and she was very specific about what she wanted to learn about and read.
• 25:14
  I gave her some books.
• 25:15
  She came back to me the next day.
• 25:18
  I've already read these books.
• 25:19
  Do you have anything else about this?
• 25:20
  I'm thinking, oh my gosh.
• 25:22
  Mean, that's this she's a faster reader than I am.
• 25:24
  She's got young kids at home just like I did.
• 25:26
  This is how passionate she is.
• 25:28
  Well, by the time we meet on Monday morning, she's also read those books over the weekend.
• 25:33
  She has, created the most robust development plan.
• 25:37
  I had ever seen up to that point in my career and she was so enthusiastic.
• 25:42
  The person who came into the office in HR was a completely different person.
• 25:47
  Than the individual that I saw coming into my office with the completed development plan.
• 25:52
  She said I've never been so excited to go on a learning journey since maybe my master degree.
• 25:58
  She ended up being one of my best performers that has ever worked for me And now she is the
• 26:06
  global head of organizational development for a multinational HR or, sorry, health care
• 26:15
  organization.
• 26:16
  She is still in this field.
• 26:18
  The one that she didn't even pick So I share with you that story because there it's it's all
• 26:26
  about how you choose to see people.
• 26:28
  Do you choose to see people that there's greatness that's hiding underneath layers of
• 26:33
  expectations and judgments and disbelief and roadblocks and system barriers and I don't
• 26:40
  know.
• 26:40
  What else might be the roadblocks to people's greatness, Roxanne, that it hasn't been
• 26:43
  included in that list?
• 26:44
  What else are you seeing?
• 26:45
  Well, I just or just maybe that person may have had difficulties and you're not looking at
• 26:51
  potentially what are some blocks that could have been existing with the the lack of
• 26:58
  appropriate resource to help them along.
• 27:00
  Yeah.
• 27:01
  Yes.
• 27:02
  And I, you know, and it's funny because the my experience initially and and I will I'm I'm I'm
• 27:11
  almost afraid to admit as a recognition expert that for years, my story in my head afterwards
• 27:17
  was that leader that that she left and for her to come to me was a, quote, poor leader.
• 27:25
  I mean, and I don't think I wrote her off complete.
• 27:27
  I know I didn't write her off completely, but I thought maybe she is a She's not a very
• 27:31
  effective people leader.
• 27:32
  And I I've gotten to this point read to this, you know, it's years later.
• 27:36
  However, I realized that that leader was doing the rest.
• 27:39
  She could too.
• 27:40
  I just I had different experiences and skill sets and belief systems, and it was easier for
• 27:46
  me to do the best I could for her.
• 27:47
  And maybe I wouldn't have done the best I could for somebody else in in her department that she
• 27:52
  did a really good job of leading.
• 27:55
  So I I think this is a time where we can all agree that we're having to stretch beyond our
• 28:01
  comfort zone in how we have to lead people And and if that means that we have to stretch
• 28:06
  outside of our comfort zone, then that means we need to stretch and help and ask for help.
• 28:12
  A lot of us leaders don't believe that it's okay to ask for help.
• 28:16
  It's not just a sign of weakness, but also that we're the ones expected of all the answers.
• 28:21
  In fact, we may be told and reinforced directly or subliminally through through, you know,
• 28:30
  traditions and, and, you know, unspoken rules and norms and so forth that in fact, we are
• 28:36
  supposed to have all the answers.
• 28:38
  We are supposed to everything and be the cleanup crew.
• 28:41
  What if we just said?
• 28:43
  I don't know.
• 28:44
  I'm sure we've all worked for somebody.
• 28:45
  I know I've worked Some of my favorite bosses are ones that say, well, I don't know how to
• 28:50
  solve that.
• 28:51
  I don't know what it's going what it must be like for that person.
• 28:55
  I'm I'm wondering what we could do about this because I'm completely confused.
• 28:59
  I it makes no sense that that we're having this problem still despite everything that we're
• 29:03
  doing.
• 29:04
  What else do we need to know?
• 29:06
  I respect those folks, and I remember them so much more so, than than the leaders who have
• 29:14
  to, on the outside, have it all figured out.
• 29:17
  And that those those are often the leaders that are quite disconnected because they're not
• 29:21
  saying, well, So showing a certain amount of vulnerability is so core, but I think what a
• 29:27
  lot of, you know, kind of the autocratic traditional leaders and the the way they had
• 29:33
  gone through their training was the perception that I have to have the answers.
• 29:37
  And what we're recognizing now with everything, out there authentic leadership and leading from
• 29:42
  the heart is in fact that vulnerability does not mean that you cannot still lead.
• 29:47
  It, in fact, is of being in to say, I want the answers, but you will see from a different
• 29:53
  perspective, why don't we kind of look at it from everybody's angles And we might be able to
• 29:58
  figure it out, but I don't have the answers right now.
• 30:01
  That that creates a space of connection that allows you to be able to say, That she or she
• 30:07
  is so relatable.
• 30:09
  Wow.
• 30:10
  I'm impressed that they could be so open with me.
• 30:14
  And that creates that that I call I call it an emotional muscle Mhmm.
• 30:18
  For people to say, wow.
• 30:20
  This is impressive.
• 30:22
  If that person could do that as my CEO or my senior VP or EVP, I can do that within my role
• 30:29
  within my team because I now see it being modeled right in front of me And then I kinda
• 30:36
  try to think, what could I be better at?
• 30:38
  What do I struggle with?
• 30:39
  And I can fall down.
• 30:41
  I can get back up.
• 30:42
  I can dust off my knees, and then I can say, I'm gonna try something different.
• 30:46
  Right?
• 30:47
  Yeah.
• 30:48
  And when we share some of the most interesting trends that I've I've been seeing, is those
• 30:54
  some of those very seasoned senior folks talking about their own struggles during this
• 31:00
  time.
• 31:01
  And talking about other times in their career where they went through a really difficult
• 31:06
  situation, and they didn't ask for help.
• 31:08
  And how they're encouraging people to reach out and ask for help right now.
• 31:12
  We can lead the way.
• 31:13
  We may not have all the we may not be able to fix what's going on right now.
• 31:17
  It may be very challenging.
• 31:18
  You may be dealing with a lot of backlash that people may not know about related to layoffs
• 31:23
  and redeployments and and, you know, restructurings.
• 31:28
  I'm seeing a lot of that happening in organizations right now.
• 31:31
  You know, unfortunately, that's part of of going through this Global and frankly, also a
• 31:36
  financial crisis for a lot of organizations and industries.
• 31:41
  We also need we can't be going through that level of emotional, for some people, it's pain.
• 31:48
  For some people, it's it's identity angst, ego, recalibration without vulnerability.
• 31:55
  I mean, imagine this is, you know, to your point that you were sharing earlier about, this
• 32:01
  work Sarah and the personal Sarah, it's the same thing with the the, connected the
• 32:07
  connected Roxanne the the professional decision maker Roxanne, it's it's not one or the other.
• 32:15
  It's that people need to believe that human beings are leading their organizations.
• 32:20
  It's it's not just, you know, we're not we're not robots, making the this these binary
• 32:27
  decisions.
• 32:30
  People can't see what's happening in the boardroom at the senior leadership table.
• 32:34
  They don't see the the wrestling with tough moral dilemmas and and decisions that people
• 32:42
  are bringing home and and well, I mean, if you're already at home, you're, you know,
• 32:47
  you're you're you're carrying it around with you and often is keeping people up at night.
• 32:53
  My one of my business coaches her name is Kim Shepherd.
• 32:57
  She's an amazing leader who built a company from the ground up, and she recently sold it.
• 33:02
  It's a recruitment company out of the US.
• 33:05
  And she's writing a book right now and interviewing chief human resources officers
• 33:10
  across North America from Microsoft to HubSpot and Beyond.
• 33:15
  And she said it's amazing.
• 33:17
  The number one theme that's showing up as the thing that keeps people up at night, chi, these
• 33:23
  chief human resources officers is met is people's mental health and well-being.
• 33:27
  Mhmm.
• 33:28
  Number 1, So how could we know that and not share with people?
• 33:34
  You know, I get this.
• 33:36
  And by the way, I'm seeing it.
• 33:39
  I'm seeing in my family or I'm seeing in my friends or I'm, you know, I've gone through
• 33:44
  journey like this before or you know, if if you need it's not just like here's the AP.
• 33:51
  You know, if you need help here's the AP, it's kind of very, like, procedural tactical sort of
• 33:56
  approach.
• 33:57
  It's more like I have had 10 conversations in the last week with people who are really
• 34:04
  struggling.
• 34:05
  Mhmm.
• 34:05
  If that's you and we even had to haven't haven't had to talk, please don't think it's
• 34:09
  only you.
• 34:10
  Like, that even if that layer.
• 34:12
  I mean, that's not even super vulnerable.
• 34:14
  She or he has not shared, barred his or her soul.
• 34:17
  But imagine if you then also said You know, my son went off to university, and and it's been
• 34:25
  really tough.
• 34:26
  I was we were so looking forward to his 1st year, and, man, it's hard going to university
• 34:30
  for the first time and having half your residents empty and being worried that you're
• 34:35
  gonna get sick.
• 34:37
  It's been tough for him.
• 34:38
  And I've been reflecting on how tough it's probably been for all of you.
• 34:42
  And so, you know, like, lead with a story, a real human story that matters to you.
• 34:47
  Get permission, obviously, up before you share a story about an employee or a leader or your
• 34:51
  own family.
• 34:53
  Or yourself, like, get permission from the people who would have invested interest in you
• 34:57
  sharing or not sharing that story.
• 35:00
  You know, definitely share in in real humanity right now and acknowledge that that you're
• 35:07
  doing the best can, and this is where your greatness shown is shown upward, the greatness
• 35:11
  you're seeing in other people despite the struggle.
• 35:14
  And and, hopefully, we keep that going well this.
• 35:17
  Now is the perfect time to practice.
• 35:19
  Everything is
• 35:20
  new.
• 35:20
  Yes.
• 35:21
  So if you wanna be more authentic, now is your perfect opportunity to be practicing.
• 35:25
  Right?
• 35:25
  That muscle that you're talking about Roxanne.
• 35:28
  Absolutely.
• 35:29
  Absolutely, Sarah, this is has been a fantastic conversation.
• 35:33
  As usual.
• 35:33
  If there's one thing you could see to people that they could do or implement, let's say, in
• 35:38
  the next week, to see people and and recognize them.
• 35:42
  What might be one small thing?
• 35:44
  And then you've shared a lot, but just to end on that note, what is one thing that people
• 35:48
  could do to start, showing that recognition.
• 35:51
  Yeah.
• 35:52
  I would check-in with people.
• 35:54
  I have a recognition checklist that I encourage people to use if you don't already know how
• 35:58
  people wanna be appreciated, follow the platinum rule, recognize people the way they
• 36:03
  wanna be recognized.
• 36:04
  So you can use the tool like the recognition checklist and and ask people, how do you wanna
• 36:10
  be appreciated?
• 36:11
  So that when you acknowledge them, you do it in a way that they can digest it.
• 36:16
  Because otherwise we usually follow through the gold rule, you know, where you treat people the
• 36:21
  way you wanna be treated.
• 36:21
  So you recognize people the way we wanna be recognized.
• 36:24
  So If you have normally do public acknowledgments and somebody's so embarrassed
• 36:29
  about that, then don't do that anymore.
• 36:31
  You know, make sure that it's specific because people are vulnerable.
• 36:34
  And so don't let your recognition your your desire to do well override how people will
• 36:41
  receive it well.
• 36:42
  So that would be a next step, matching matching those 2 things up.
• 36:46
  Your intention with your
• 36:50
  Absolutely.
• 36:51
  That makes so much sense, right, because sometimes we kinda get caught off and we think,
• 36:55
  oh, I like to be recognized in this way.
• 36:57
  Mhmm.
• 36:58
  And then you see people just shrink when you do it the way that would work for you.
• 37:01
  And then again, not for them.
• 37:04
  So, Sarah, you've, I want you to mention rockstar because I think it's an important a
• 37:09
  time for people to know that that above that book and, where, they can get ahold of you.
• 37:15
  Obviously, everything will be in the show notes, but if there's Just a couple words about
• 37:19
  Roxanne, and then we'll let you along your way.
• 37:21
  Yeah.
• 37:22
  So Rockstar is the book that I wrote during COVID at the very start of it.
• 37:26
  I've come from health care.
• 37:27
  So my I have huge love and my heart's been going out to my health care, community and
• 37:33
  industry.
• 37:35
  I work with many different industries now, but I'm sort of a first love.
• 37:38
  You you always remember your first love.
• 37:41
  And Roxanne is really it's a book for them and all other essential services professionals.
• 37:48
  Roxanne stands for recognize, organize, communicate, and kindness, which gives you star
• 37:53
  results, satisfaction, teamwork, a sense of achievement, and retention.
• 37:58
  So it's all about how do you manage your way through challenging times by always being able
• 38:03
  to magnify people's greatness by treating them like the rock stars that they are.
• 38:09
  Awesome.
• 38:10
  Well, again, what amazing conversation.
• 38:14
  And what am I taking away?
• 38:16
  I'm taking away that, we get need to get back, you know, like to Sarah's point, this should
• 38:21
  not stop when we're outside of this through adversity to learn things about what it takes
• 38:32
  to really connect.
• 38:33
  And I'm gonna say the word heart to heart based on what I talk about, And once we, you know,
• 38:38
  kind of connect to ourselves, visa as moms or or dads or community members or friends, or
• 38:46
  leaders, then we we really kind of have the answers within there, and we learn each time as
• 38:51
  we we try something new.
• 38:53
  We know whether it works or not.
• 38:56
  So thanks so much for tuning in.
• 38:58
  And I'm Roxanne Derhodge.
• 38:59
  If you're wanting a consultation of what it takes to be more authentic as a leader, please
• 39:04
  connect with me at Roxanne.
• 39:08
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with roxanne creating the space for positive,
• 39:13
  healthy change.
• 39:15
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 39:21
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 39:25
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.