Latest / Talking Michigan Transportation / Reprise: DNR boosts hunting to help farmers, reduce car-deer crashes

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Reprise: DNR boosts hunting to help farmers, reduce car-deer crashes · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello and welcome to the Talking Mexican Transportation Podcast of Jeff Cranston.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: As Paul approaches and on the heels of last week's discussion about creating safe crossings to prevent vehicle wildlife crashes, we are reprising an episode from 2024 in a discussion with the Department of Natural Resources, Ed Golder.
• 0:29
  Jeff Cranson: He talked about the decline in deer harvest being reported by hunters and an innovative program now called Hunters Feeding Michigan, which is a name change from what was mentioned in the original podcast.
• 0:41
  Jeff Cranson: Since then, Ed tells me the DNR is doing more than ever to help farmers get deer off their land.
• 0:47
  Jeff Cranson: I hope you enjoy this Encore presentation.
• 0:50
  Jeff Cranson: Ed, thanks again for a return visit to the podcast.
• 0:54
  Jeff Cranson: Last time we did this, we talked about uh the olden days when we had our own in the media world.
• 1:00
  Jeff Cranson: Right?
• 1:01
  Jeff Cranson: Good to be here.
• 1:02
  Jeff Cranson: I don't think we ever talked about this topic though.
• 1:04
  Ed Golder: So this is which is a topic uh of great interest to both of us, I think.
• 1:09
  Jeff Cranson: You did talk about Asian carp, I recall.
• 1:11
  Jeff Cranson: That that that was still part of the uh ecosphere at the time.
• 1:16
  Ed Golder: Right.
• 1:16
  Ed Golder: Uh we talked about that frequently, and and uh we should yeah.
• 1:20
  Ed Golder: I that wouldn't be a transportation issue necessarily, although there's a uh uh there's a um a lock down in uh uh Illinois that's implicated.
• 1:29
  Ed Golder: But uh that we've made great movement on that issue with the DNR, so that's pretty exciting.
• 1:33
  Jeff Cranson: Well, if you're in a boat and you know a fish jumps up and smacks you in the face, I guess that's a transportation issue.
• 1:38
  Jeff Cranson: It certainly can be.
• 1:40
  Jeff Cranson: That's right.
• 1:41
  Jeff Cranson: So g just give me a little bit of an overview um on this topic and and how it is that the deer population has swelled so much, especially, well, really in in southern Michigan, what we think of as downstate.
• 1:55
  Ed Golder: Right, right.
• 1:55
  Ed Golder: Important distinction you just made there, Jeff.
• 1:58
  Ed Golder: I mean, certainly in the upper peninsula, I think we've got a uh almost a mirror issue uh where we're concerned about too few deer.
• 2:06
  Ed Golder: Uh but in southern lower Michigan, um the it's certainly true, southern lower peninsula, it's certainly true that we've seen an increase in the deer population.
• 2:15
  Ed Golder: Uh and there are a number of things driving that.
• 2:17
  Ed Golder: Um uh certainly uh milder winters helps, uh, right?
• 2:21
  Ed Golder: Um, you know, uh deer thrive in milder winters.
• 2:24
  Ed Golder: Uh winter mortality is one of the limiting factors on deer population, and we just don't have a lot of really harsh winters anymore.
• 2:32
  Ed Golder: Um and um and other big driving factors, we've seen a huge decrease in the number of hunters in the last few decades.
• 2:40
  Ed Golder: Um, and that's a big trend.
• 2:41
  Ed Golder: We can certainly talk about more.
• 2:43
  Ed Golder: Uh, but uh the reality is we've relied in the past on hunters to help manage the deer herd, uh, and there just aren't as many of them anymore.
• 2:52
  Ed Golder: Um so um, you know, that's that's uh one of the big driving factors and one of the things uh that we're wrestling with as a department.
• 3:01
  Ed Golder: Um we talk all the time about our R3 efforts, which is recruitment, uh reactivation, and retention of hunters and other people in uh uh you know, fishing and hunting in particular, uh, but but to um go out and and create a new hunter out of whole cloth, that's a that's a huge process.
• 3:21
  Ed Golder: Um and uh one that that uh uh is uh you know we we find is is hard to succeed at.
• 3:28
  Ed Golder: Um so um so you know that those are some of the things that are that are driving that.
• 3:34
  Ed Golder: In addition to um, you know, there just aren't as many places to hunt deer in the southern lower on public lands.
• 3:41
  Ed Golder: We've got an abundance of public lands in Michigan, uh in in the northern lower uh peninsula and in the upper peninsula.
• 3:49
  Ed Golder: Uh in fact, we've got the largest holding of public land, state-managed public land anywhere in the lower 48 states.
• 3:55
  Ed Golder: But you know, finding those opportunities in the southern lower is a little harder to come by.
• 4:00
  Ed Golder: So uh we've been very conscious in the past few years about that public land management and and uh and providing opportunities for people to recreate on public lands closer to where they live, including hunting.
• 4:12
  Ed Golder: Um that's a long answer.
• 4:15
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, that is.
• 4:15
  Jeff Cranson: But let's let's come back to uh the those those game areas and and the the state managed lands you're talking about in a bit.
• 4:24
  Jeff Cranson: But um, you know, I framed this whole thing.
• 4:26
  Jeff Cranson: I talked in the intro about how I had I thought I had pretty much explored this issue in two previous podcasts with uh with what your your department and mdot are doing jointly to apply for a grant for you know better wildlife crossings and things that we know there's only so much that can be done about deer because they're just everywhere.
• 4:46
  Jeff Cranson: But um the but the free press reported the story that kind of uh you know provoked me to bring this up again, that uh the hunters reported killing 30,000 fewer deer in 2023 than the year before.
• 4:59
  Jeff Cranson: Um that's just that's an enormous decrease.
• 5:02
  Jeff Cranson: Um when did you first notice the trend toward a decline in hunting and what are the theories about why that is?
• 5:08
  Ed Golder: Yeah, that's a that's a big question that people in my world talk about all the time.
• 5:12
  Ed Golder: And I don't know that I have all the answers, but I'll tell you some of the theories.
• 5:15
  Ed Golder: Uh so you know, the decline in hunting has been going on for the past several decades.
• 5:20
  Ed Golder: Um there's this big shift, this demographic shift that's occurring in hunting, uh, where uh, you know, the hunters just tend to be older uh sort of baby boomers, uh, like you and me.
• 5:32
  Ed Golder: Um and uh, you know, they were they were taught to hunt growing up and and imbued with that conservation ethic that hunting uh was a good thing that helped control the deer herd.
• 5:42
  Ed Golder: Uh and uh and you know was a was a great recreational opportunity, but uh there are just fewer and fewer people doing it.
• 5:49
  Ed Golder: Um there's urbanization happening, right?
• 5:51
  Ed Golder: It's not as stark in our state as in other places, but uh it's certainly uh uh one of the trends that's going on.
• 5:56
  Ed Golder: So more urban people tend to be less connected to the land in the woods and so don't hunt as much.
• 6:02
  Ed Golder: Um and uh and certainly there's a there's a broad shift in our society toward uh video games and that kind of stuff.
• 6:09
  Ed Golder: So younger people tend to be more uh um, you know, um more enraptured by those sorts of activities.
• 6:16
  Jeff Cranson: Um and so the deer, the deer are probably donating to the video game lobby.
• 6:20
  Jeff Cranson: Is that what you're saying?
• 6:23
  Ed Golder: I'm sure that, yeah, I'm sure they are.
• 6:25
  Ed Golder: Yeah.
• 6:26
  Ed Golder: Uh the more video games, the better, as far as the deer are concerned.
• 6:29
  Ed Golder: Um, but that's not the only reason.
• 6:31
  Ed Golder: I mean, uh I see uh like you, I'm out in the woods all the time, backpacking, hiking.
• 6:36
  Ed Golder: Um you know, I'm on the water all the time.
• 6:39
  Ed Golder: I see young people out there all the time.
• 6:41
  Ed Golder: I it's just that their recreational interests are not uh that of their parents and grandparents.
• 6:48
  Ed Golder: Um, you know, they they tend to want a hike and they tend to want a mountain bike and they tend to want a fat tire bike and all those cool, exciting things, uh, but not necessarily hunt.
• 6:58
  Ed Golder: Um so um so it's a it's a trend.
• 7:01
  Ed Golder: We see about a 3% drop in the number of hunters, deer hunters in particular every year.
• 7:07
  Jeff Cranson: I I definitely see that anecdotally.
• 7:08
  Jeff Cranson: I know you and I have talked about it uh because yeah, we are hikers and kayakers.
• 7:14
  Jeff Cranson: Um but I I wonder if if there are other things at work.
• 7:18
  Jeff Cranson: I wonder if it's if it's uh uh viewed as as a hassle to people, like all the stuff you gotta do, you know, to to gear up for it.
• 7:27
  Jeff Cranson: And it's I it's has it lost its its social aspect?
• 7:30
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, you know, it was a it was a huge rite of passage in Michigan for years to go to deer camp in November and you know hang out with Brighton.
• 7:39
  Jeff Cranson: Absolutely.
• 7:41
  Ed Golder: I think I think that's part of the reality too.
• 7:42
  Ed Golder: People have uh less leisure time.
• 7:45
  Ed Golder: Uh, you know, um people may not own that cabin up north or that hunting camp uh up north like they used to.
• 7:52
  Ed Golder: Um, you know, yeah, there was probably a time when uh people um on the line at GM went up and spent a couple weeks uh, you know, uh at Deer Camp.
• 8:01
  Ed Golder: And uh and it was it it was a great family event, right?
• 8:04
  Ed Golder: You'd take your kids, you'd take your friends, you'd you know, you'd it it was it was it was Christmas in November um for a lot of people.
• 8:12
  Ed Golder: Um and and yeah, that doesn't exist as much as it used to, I think.
• 8:15
  Ed Golder: Uh and to your point earlier, it's it's like I was talking about earlier, it it it is a there's there are barriers to entry for people who've never hunted before.
• 8:24
  Ed Golder: Um so when I joined the department, I hadn't hunted much and I went and and took a class and then had was fortunate to go out with one of our great turkey biologists.
• 8:33
  Ed Golder: We were turkey hunting, and he he helped me bag a turkey my first time out.
• 8:37
  Ed Golder: Um but um but not everybody has that kind of support, right?
• 8:41
  Ed Golder: So um so I know there are great organizations, National Wild Turkey Federation and others that are working on on getting people into hunting, but as you said, it's uh it's a it's a tough uh it's a tough entry for some people.
• 8:55
  Jeff Cranson: Stay with us.
• 8:55
  Jeff Cranson: We'll have more on the other side of this important message.
• 8:59
  MDOT Message: In Michigan, safety comes first on the roads.
• 9:01
  MDOT Message: To combat distracted driving, Michigan passed the hands-free law.
• 9:06
  MDOT Message: The law makes holding or manually using a cell phone or other mobile electronic device while operating a vehicle a primary offense.
• 9:14
  MDOT Message: This means an officer can stop and ticket you for violating the law.
• 9:18
  MDOT Message: This can include, but not limited to, sending or receiving a call, sending, receiving, or reading a text or email, accessing, reading, or posting to social media sites, or entering locations into the phone GPS.
• 9:31
  MDOT Message: With this law in place, drivers are encouraged to stay focused, keeping their hands on the wheel and their attention on the road.
• 9:38
  MDOT Message: Drive smart, drive safe, drive hands-free.
• 9:42
  MDOT Message: Michigan's hands-free law, making the road safer for everyone.
• 9:48
  Jeff Cranson: So tell me why this is a concern to the DNR.
• 9:50
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, obviously, from a transportation aspect, um, we know that more deer means you know more more crashes.
• 9:57
  Jeff Cranson: Um, and and uh Kent County for years, uh, when you and I were uh uh writing about these things, reporting on these things, uh Kent County was uh always a leader in the state.
• 10:07
  Jeff Cranson: Um now I don't know if that's the case anymore.
• 10:10
  Jeff Cranson: There's several counties uh downstate that seem to be seeing this.
• 10:14
  Jeff Cranson: And uh I know your folks are just as worried about the safety that goes with it.
• 10:17
  Jeff Cranson: You're worried about the spread of disease.
• 10:19
  Jeff Cranson: But I guess tie that into the focus on on antler, antlerless deer and the incentives to to take doughs and you know how you think that can work.
• 10:28
  Ed Golder: Yeah, so uh I don't know if in your show notes we can link to something, Jeff, but there was a great um a great letter that uh our deer biologist, our chief deer biologist Chad Stewart wrote to hunters last year uh prior to the season.
• 10:43
  Ed Golder: And he uh and he prefaced the the letter by saying, uh, look, I know this is gonna offend some people, but I just want to tell you we got to start killing more does in this state.
• 10:54
  Ed Golder: Uh and he was talking to hunters um of a certain generation for whom uh there was a conservation ethic uh and a good one, you know, at the time that they were coming up as hunters, uh, that you just didn't kill does because that helped manage the herd and helped help make sure we had a sustaining herd.
• 11:13
  Ed Golder: Uh but the realities of our herd have shifted and changed.
• 11:16
  Ed Golder: And we have an interest, just like you do, in making sure that the herd is managed, doesn't become too dense.
• 11:21
  Ed Golder: You know, there are disease implications to a dense herd, there are social implications, um, you know, um, so there are all kinds of things we're worried about.
• 11:30
  Ed Golder: So, yeah, one of our crusades has been to encourage people to harvest more does.
• 11:35
  Ed Golder: The the reason for that is, you know, a buck can can uh can uh father many uh fawns, but uh, you know, uh if you kill a doe, uh, you know, you've you've uh um uh you know you've taken away the possibility of of of uh twins or triplets um in successive seasons.
• 11:54
  Ed Golder: So um so that's that's a very effective way of managing the herd.
• 11:58
  Ed Golder: And in Michigan, our dough harvest is out of whack um compared to other states in particular.
• 12:04
  Ed Golder: We just don't harvest as many doughs as we can or should.
• 12:08
  Ed Golder: Uh and again, a lot of this has to do with that conservation ethic that people held for many years for a lot of good reasons.
• 12:14
  Ed Golder: And so we're trying to to get to hunters and say, look, you know, that dynamic has changed in this part of the state anyway, in the southern lower peninsula.
• 12:22
  Ed Golder: And uh there's good reason why we should be uh should be harvesting a lot of doughs at this point, and we've made all kinds of opportunities for them to do that.
• 12:29
  Jeff Cranson: So it's kind of a cultural change, kind of a mindset.
• 12:32
  Ed Golder: Yeah, it is.
• 12:32
  Jeff Cranson: It is, yeah.
• 12:33
  Jeff Cranson: So, you know, again, going to the proliferation of deer downstate, you know, what do you, I guess, what does the agency tell people in exurbs, suburbs, now even urban areas?
• 12:44
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, in my urban neighborhood in the city of Grand Rapids, um, I was walking the dog the other day and there was a deer standing in the front yard of a of a ranch home and and uh in a in a densely populated ranch home.
• 12:56
  Jeff Cranson: And uh chewing on a hosta, huh?
• 12:58
  Jeff Cranson: Well, I was gonna say that yeah, hosta seems like a smorgasbord, but I hear from other people that are losing roses and other flowers and certainly garden vegetables.
• 13:07
  Jeff Cranson: Is is some of this misguided people that that feed them intentionally?
• 13:12
  Ed Golder: You're right.
• 13:13
  Ed Golder: There are people who are just having their plants uh uh decimated by deer.
• 13:18
  Ed Golder: Uh I think I was telling you the other day I was talking to our deer biologist, and I looked out at my front door and also uh uh you know a Grand Rapids neighborhood, uh, and there's a deer uh eating uh the flowers my wife had put out there.
• 13:31
  Ed Golder: So uh that's that's certainly a reality.
• 13:34
  Ed Golder: And to your other point, yeah, I also in my neighborhood, people are people are feeding deer.
• 13:39
  Ed Golder: I've stopped and asked them not to.
• 13:41
  Ed Golder: I've explained to them that in Michigan, in the lower peninsula right now, it's illegal to feed deer or to bait deer.
• 13:48
  Ed Golder: Uh and and part of the reason for that uh is that you know we have uh chronic wasting disease in our deer herd, uh, which is a dangerous disease that can have a you know uh detrimental impact on the herd, and um and having deer feed nose to nose like that uh can increase the spread of that and other diseases.
• 14:07
  Ed Golder: So um so you know, we've we've uh people, especially who don't stay connected to hunting, may not know or understand that.
• 14:18
  Ed Golder: Uh and people love to look at deer.
• 14:20
  Ed Golder: I I love to look at deer, but um but doing that.
• 14:23
  Jeff Cranson: Oh yeah, I mean when they when they run, they're very graceful, you know.
• 14:26
  Jeff Cranson: It's it's a cool thing to watch.
• 14:28
  Jeff Cranson: So I don't know how to reconcile that either with the fact that they're more than just a nuisance, they're a danger.
• 14:33
  Ed Golder: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:35
  Ed Golder: In fact, the the area I'm talking about in my air neighborhood where people feed deer, it's not only congregating deer artificially, but it's moving them across the roadway that I drive regularly, uh where, you know, uh it's it's more likely that you're gonna hit deer.
• 14:49
  Ed Golder: So uh I've actually talked to our conservation officers about that, and they've been out there a couple times, I think, trying to ask people to don't do that.
• 14:58
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, yeah, quite simply don't do that.
• 15:00
  Jeff Cranson: Well, talk about um some of the changes that that have been made and that are coming in this well, already kind of in place because um some of the varieties of season have have already begun.
• 15:12
  Jeff Cranson: Um can you talk about that?
• 15:13
  Ed Golder: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:14
  Ed Golder: I mean, when we talk about deer season, we actually talk about seasons, right?
• 15:17
  Ed Golder: Uh I mean there are there are seasons that begin in um in September.
• 15:22
  Ed Golder: And yeah, uh our Natural Resources Commission uh has created um more and more opportunities for people to take dough.
• 15:29
  Ed Golder: Um it's the antlittless deer, to be more precise, because uh sometimes at a distance you can't tell whether that antlitilist deer is a dough or a buck, but um but uh you know that the part of the concern again is that conservation ethic I was talking about.
• 15:44
  Ed Golder: Are people actually going to do that?
• 15:46
  Ed Golder: And part of the concern is uh, you know, we've noticed that as many opportunities you give people, as many licenses as you give people uh in areas of the state where you want increased uh analylis harvest, uh you're still people are still going to cap out at a certain point, right?
• 16:01
  Ed Golder: I mean, uh I think a number I saw um from in in Chad's piece was uh uh only 1% of our hunters take more than, you know, take as many as four deer or dough.
• 16:13
  Ed Golder: Um so you know, uh there's only so much time, so much freezer space, uh so much desire uh on the part of people to to um to uh take deer.
• 16:24
  Ed Golder: Um so you know that's that's what we're struggling with.
• 16:26
  Ed Golder: One of the things we're working on, real quickly, Jeff, and I know you didn't ask about this, but um there's a great program where we provide uh, you know, we work with organizations to provide deer meat to food pantries.
• 16:38
  Ed Golder: Um and um and we do that uh during the regular season, and we do it um for uh farmers who have to take deer off their land because of crop degradation or cut uh you know crop damage.
• 16:50
  Ed Golder: We've we've looked at that program as an opportunity to help manage the herd in our part of the state as well.
• 16:56
  Ed Golder: We just got money in the budget to get some freezers so we can put those out on uh on farmers' lands when they're doing uh out-of-season harvest of deer so that we can get those deer to uh to food pantries uh to help feed families in need.
• 17:12
  Ed Golder: So it's a you know if we can increase that program and increase the take of that program, it really serves two needs at once, which is uh which is a great opportunity.
• 17:20
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, those are some creative ideas.
• 17:22
  Jeff Cranson: Um is there anything else that people should s know going into um even you know beyond December this year, there's gonna be some things going on, right?
• 17:32
  Ed Golder: Yeah, there's uh there's some late harvest opportunities.
• 17:35
  Ed Golder: You can find those on Michigan.gov backslash DNR.
• 17:37
  Ed Golder: I will I will link to those in the show notes.
• 17:40
  Ed Golder: Thank you, thank you.
• 17:41
  Ed Golder: Um don't feed deer.
• 17:43
  Ed Golder: Uh that doesn't help.
• 17:45
  Ed Golder: Um uh makes them artificially dependent on on humans.
• 17:49
  Ed Golder: And uh look for those opportunities to harvest deer and uh learn about this program, uh uh Sportsman Against Hunger that uh that has helped uh feed uh you know many, many families since its inception in the early 90s.
• 18:02
  Ed Golder: Uh I think there's they've donated about a million pounds of venison to food pantries and others uh in that time.
• 18:09
  Ed Golder: So um lots of opportunities to help if uh uh if you're a hunter or uh or even if you're not.
• 18:17
  Jeff Cranson: I should also mention that that uh that car deer crash number, according to stats that are kept by you know various police agencies, um, you know, some 55,000 last year, that those are just the reported stats.
• 18:29
  Jeff Cranson: Um we have every reason to believe that there are many, many more collisions that involve deer and probably all kinds of animals that are never reported, right?
• 18:37
  Ed Golder: I'm sure that's true.
• 18:38
  Ed Golder: I'm sure that's true.
• 18:39
  Ed Golder: And I'm excited about this opportunity you talked about earlier with with MDOT and us in cooperation trying to identify wildlife corridors and see if we can do something about that uh in in other ways.
• 18:49
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, and I I think that uh that something else people need to know is that the risk isn't just that you know you run into this deer and it, you know, do damage to your car and and possibly injure you for whatever reason that it you know makes its way through the windshield or you know causes you to stop quickly and all kinds of things can happen, but that people swerve.
• 19:11
  Jeff Cranson: That's a natural instinct that you you know you see an animal and you want to swerve.
• 19:14
  Jeff Cranson: And people uh have talked about it previously with uh our wildlife um specialist, resource specialists, and your people too, about um the turtles and and you know, really well-meaning people will pull over on the side of the road when they see a slow turtle, because turtles are slow, and try to help it across, and they're creating another hazard by doing that.
• 19:35
  Jeff Cranson: And I I get the instinct because I love turtles, but all these things, you know, all these all these animals and all these things that uh our our hearts tell us we want to do to help them can cause traffic crashes.
• 19:49
  Jeff Cranson: Yep.
• 19:49
  Jeff Cranson: Yep, crashes, not accidents, right?
• 19:52
  Jeff Cranson: Very good.
• 19:54
  Ed Golder: I'm learning.
• 19:55
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Jeff Cranson: No, that's good.
• 19:56
  Jeff Cranson: I appreciate it.
• 19:57
  Jeff Cranson: Uh this is this is helpful.
• 19:59
  Jeff Cranson: I hope that uh I hope this gets the word out about what can be done and what what is being done, and uh wish you luck because uh it really it matters to you know the loss of of property and uh and medical bills and all kinds of things, the ways that it affects our lives, our insurance rates, and uh and and other things.
• 20:17
  Jeff Cranson: So thanks for thanks for doing what you do.
• 20:20
  Jeff Cranson: Absolutely happy to be here with you, Jeff.
• 20:22
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Machine Transportation.
• 20:26
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 20:30
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who posts the content, and Jacke Salinas, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.