Latest / Beyond The Blood: A Horror Movie Commentary Podcast / Basic Instinct (1992)

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Basic Instinct (1992) · Beyond The Blood: A Horror Movie Commentary Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Ever have that one movie everyone assumes you've seen, but
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: you haven't. You know, the one, the classic, the cult favorite,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the how have you not seen that movie? Welcome to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Shameless Picture Show. Twice a month, I sit down
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: with the guests who finally cross one of those films
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: off our shame lists. Sometimes it's their first watch and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's mine, but sometimes.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: It's new for both of us.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Then we die the characters.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: The cultural impact, and whether it actually lives up to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the hype, from legendary classics to cult oddities to.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: The films we somehow missed along the way.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Join us as we turn movie shame into movie discussion.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: This is the Shameless Picture Show.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite par Auctions
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: podcast network.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Would you tell us the nature of your relationship with
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: mister Boz?
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: I had sex with him for about a year and
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: a half. I liked having sex with him. He wasn't
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: afraid of experimenting. I like men like that, men who
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: give me pleasure. He gave me a lot of pleasure.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: You ever.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Engage in any say, the masochistic activity?
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: Exactly what did you have in mind?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Mister Curly?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Episode number fifty of Beyond the Blood, Steve, do you
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: feel accomplished? Do you feel like we've hit a milestone here?
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: This is definitely a milestone. It's like the anniversary special.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: This is our fiftieth anniversary.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: It reminds me were you a big comic book rereader
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: growing up?
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit, not big.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Why I feel like you would always have so yearly
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: for certain comic book series, you'd have annual specials. It's
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: a big thing. It would be like some type of culmination,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: you know, that specific comic run. But this feels just
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: like that because we're moving into a subgenre that both
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: you and I are a big fan of.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, erotic thriller. This is the first erotic thriller that
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: we've covered on Beyond the Blood. And some would argue
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: this is inappropriate, not because of the content of the movie,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: but because we consider ourselves a horror commentary podcast. But
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I would argue that thriller is horror to an extent,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: not that basic instinct is horror, but I would say
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: that there's crossover between the two.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: This is I would have to say this is probably
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: one of the more graphic erotic thrillers that we're most
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: likely going to be covering anyways.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well there's a couple of big things with
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: this episode. Man, we're covering Basic Instinct from nineteen ninety two,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: the commentary track, which we'll get into. This is our
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: fiftieth episode, which is crazy. We didn't even know this
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: was coming up. I was editing and I was like, oh,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: we have fifty is next that I casually just texted
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: you and was like, hey, this is our fiftieth episode.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I had no idea.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like it. But when you like really
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: start going back and you start looking at the amount
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: of episodes that we've you know, covered to get or well,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I should say films that we've covered together, it's pretty impressive.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've knocked out quite a few different movies
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: that we've done deep dives for over the last year plus.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is also the first video episode, so
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: to everybody watching on YouTube and Spotify, Hello, welcome to
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: the first video episode of Beyond the Blood.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: This is pretty special neck a line.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: It took us so long to do this, and I
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: think I said so many times we were going to
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: and it just came down to time and like dedication
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: to making it happen and now we finally made it happen.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: Some stoked to be on YouTube? Oh yeah, excited to
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: have this as an option on Spotify. I'm speaking from
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: back in time, so I'm hoping it all works. I'm
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: sure the YouTube side will work just fine. The Spotify side,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: I'm hoping it works. But we'll see. You know, we
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: try new things, and I figured fifty is a milestone.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: So from this point or where we can, the people
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: can enjoy seeing our faces if they want to.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I like to think so.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Just a couple of handsome gentlemen talking around exactly on
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: the internet.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: So how do I how do I get into this?
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: We both are fans of the erotic thriller subgenres. We
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: spoke this year about covering more of them, and Basic
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Instinct I think is kind of the perfect launching point
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: for us to do it, because it's not only one
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  Speaker 3: of the most notorious, but I think as far as
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: my longevity with the erotic thrillers, this is one of
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: the movies from my youth that I still hold on
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: to with a great nostalgia and a great importance, even
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: if it might be for some inappropriate reasons. More than
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: it is, like you know, movie Enjoying This came out
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety two. I was a year old when
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: this came out, So I discovered this on VHS many
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: years later. What's your history with this one?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So this is a movie that I go back to.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I considered this. Let's just say it's an es tire
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: erotic thriller for me. And it's not only just because
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: of how rewatchable it is, but it was one of
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the first few that I actually discovered and launched my
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: love of these films. Between I would say This and
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Fatal Attraction, and then from that point forward, after you know,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: getting both of those at the video store, that's when
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I actively sought out, you know, trying to get my
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: hands on as many as I could in a lot
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: of ways, very similar to like Slashers, you know, of
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that same time. So I feel like that there's like
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit of crossover.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, it was this this cover, the
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: white cover art for this, and then it was the
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: cover for which I don't even I haven't seen it
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: so long. It was a cover for nine and a
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: half weeks. That was the other cover that always I
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: feel like, oh, this feels inappropriate for me. Desductive and
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: my my I think it was my dad. It was
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: either my dad had basic instinct or we had it
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: for somebody in my household had it. And I remember
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: I got to a point where I would just take
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: VHS tapes and watch them, like I can't tell you
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: how old I was, but I was just watching movies
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: and I remember taking it and it's the opening scene
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: that was like, what is happening here? Like this is
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: like unlocking a whole new world for me. And that's
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: why this movie is nostalgic because of that opening scene
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: of basic INSCT.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Well, especially because I mean for a lot of these,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and you obviously you get some you know, there's obviously
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the mystery that's with a lot of these, like there's
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: usually you know, high stakes murder in some aspects, but
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: especially for this one, I mean, it's a it goes
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: like from zero to ten really quickly with how fast
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: escalades it does.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: And obviously getting older and getting into film, I think
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: my first big jump with Paul Verhoven outside of this
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: was Storm Ship Troopers. That was really like I think
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: the first Verehoven movie that I was old enough to
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: understand and comprehend. And then I got into RoboCop and
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: eventually it became Showgirls. For me, Showgirls was like the
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: holy shit, like my life is changing. And then when
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I went back to basic instinct, it was actually still
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: on TV. I think it was TNT or TBS, so
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: it was edited. Oh okay, yeah, it was edited, and
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: it was still like this is that movie. Do you
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: remember the era in our lives which so many people
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: aren't gonna know because we're old now, but do you
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: remember the moment dude, listen when you would fall asleep
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: at like nine o'clock at night, ten o'clock right, and
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  Speaker 3: you would wake up and it would be like eleven
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  Speaker 3: thirty midnight, and you just remember like a scene playing
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: that you know, like you should not be watching, but
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: it came on and you'd be like, what is going on?
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: But you're in a stupor because you're half asleep and
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  Speaker 3: not really sure.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Oh some of the some of them, even the commercials
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: that you would get on like late night cable. I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: mean it's you definitely don't get that. I mean, I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: feel bad for anyone who's missing out on that experience.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: But to wake up to some you know, what, was
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: it like Girls Gone Wild? Or whatever it was at
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the time. You know, you'd have like advertisements for that,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean this one. It kind of going
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: back to what you were talking about earlier. That cover
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: art on the VHS is just it's so iconic. I
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: have a one sheet of this hung up in my room.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: It's it's a movie that I feel like has a
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: very very profound impact on there's just a subgenre in generals.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Oh it's this film's incredible and it looks it looks
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: incredible on four K, you know, getting to enjoy the
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Lionskape four K that they put out recently.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: It feels like this is a bygone era, this era
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: of movies that were made for adults. Like, yes, obviously
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: content wisers made for adults, but it's such a like like,
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: we don't have actors like this anymore. And I know
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: everybody says things like this, but we don't have a
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Michael Douglas. We don't have I know, people say Sidney Sweeney,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Sidney Sweeney is not Sharon Stone.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: We were just talking about that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: There's a very clear difference between straight performance and the
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: ability to capture a character and become a character. And
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: this is a movie where now as adults watching it,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: I just become so engrossed in Michael Douglas's character, in
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Sharon Stone's character, all the side characters. This movie has
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: a just a pulse running through it the time that
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: never stops, and it never loses the interest. It is
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: incredibly interesting all the way through, even though we have
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: characters that we have, you know, suspect and a cop
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: who become lovers and we don't understand what the intention is,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: and there's all of this like troubled past with everybody,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: and everybody's getting molded into each other, and it keeps
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: this momentum all the way through to the end. And
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: then even when the movie is over, you're still left
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: questioning the morality of every single character.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: It's the best part.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Who Yeah, And it's still it is interesting to me
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: now seeing this movie ten eleven, twelve times that I have,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: it's still is just like there's a magnetism to this
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: movie that's in the direction, it's in the performances, it's
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: in the writing. It's absolutely just the tension is palpable,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: and I think in the conversation of nineties, as much
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: as I love pulp fiction and what Tarantino was doing
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: in the nineties. I think Basic Instinct. It sits atop
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: you know, the lineup man, it's just lightning in a bottle.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Well, And I would argue that a lot of the
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: erotic thrillers that came out after this time, I felt
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: like they tried to basically replicate the success of this
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: film and didn't come quite close. Or I mean you
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: go back and you look at that period throughout the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: eighties and nineties, and I feel like that there's only
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: like a handful of films I would maybe consider putting
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: them in the same tier, and that's the few and
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: far between, but a lot of them. I mean, you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: when I go back and watch watch some of them,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I mean they're like more like slazy thrillers that this
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: isn't in a like a category all on its own.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: You know, well, what would you say? I mean, late seventies,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: you have I believe the third remake of The Postman
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Always Rings Twice with Jack Nicholson and got to Always
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Forget her Name from American Horror Story and King Kong
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: seventy six, oh, always blanking on her name. I think
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Jessica Lang. Yeah, I think the most comparable before Basic
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: instinct would be body Heat in eighty one William Hurstwah
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: and Kathleen Turner. You know, flash forward eleven years later.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: You gotta remember, like horror took over everything in the
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: horror in action took over, right, So ninety two basic
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: instinct comes along. This is really I think, And I
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: would have to like really deep dive to be sure,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: but I remember, just looking at it, this kind of
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: being the launching point for that that that run of
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: like the ninety three to ninety nine of erotic thrillers,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: but most of them, even going into early two thousands,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: never had the same energy right.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Like they were at all.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: They were erotic, and you got to see a lot
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: of actors and actresses in ways you've never seen them before.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: What else would there be kind of in that era?
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: I remember Original Sin with Angelia and Joe Lee Unfaithful.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, that's is that? Diane Uh? Oh? Hold on god,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: I'm just forgetting all the names tonight. It's okay, Diane Lane, Yeah,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Diane Lane, yep, yeah, Richard Gear yeah, Diane Lane, unfaithful.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: I remember Fatal Attraction nine and a half weeks obviously,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I think I can't remember what comes before or after,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: but that run body of evidence is another one body
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: of evidence. Well, Paul Verehoven went on to or not
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Paul Verhoven, I'm sorry. Sharon Stone went on the Juice Liver.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I want to say it's quite on the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: same level. But I do like that movie a lot.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: And then you have kind of like Wild Things and
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Poison IVY comes in the late nineties early two thousands,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: and there is a slew of independent straight to video
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: erotic thrillers out there.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: That are Crush the Babysitter.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Go on to be and type an erotic thriller, and
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: you're gonna be like, where the fuck am I? It's it.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: There's so many, dude, It's it's great. Like you also
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: have Jade from William Freakin. You have Last Deduction. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: you have a lot, and none as much as I
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: love some of those movies, none of them have the
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: the angle that basic instinct does.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I think the only the only films that I feel
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: like come close to it. And I know it was
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: it was a little bit before this time, but the
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: ones that always see to me are dressed to kill
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Body Double. You have fatal Attraction, and I feel like
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: that this one is definitely out there.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: I do like I love the sort of callback to
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: basic instinct in David Fincher's Gone Girl. We have obviously
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: the scene that pretty much is a direct reference to
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: basic instinct.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Would you consider that at least I do. I consider
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that probably one of the last erotic thrillers that we get. Yes,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I would of that caliber. I should say, you know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like that there's been.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah soler thriller with with some really heavy handed eroticism,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Like the whole movie isn't based around it, but there
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: is a good chunk of the movie where it really
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: leans into it. And when you're calling back directly to
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: basic instinct essentially, then I think you have the right
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: to deem yourself in the genre.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You know, that movie is so so good. Where's the
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: four K for that?
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I have an edition with the book.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: It's got the book in the in the thing there,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Fincher had that weird run of those, like weird, like
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: my social network is like a sleeve almost, it's not
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: like a typical case the did you pack? Yeah, that
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: would be it opak Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: just a movie that that's been with me for a
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: long time, and I was very excited to talk about
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: this for the podcast, and we decided to dive into
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: the audio commentary with the director Paul Verhoven and cinematographer Yondabant.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: This was recorded in two thousand and one for the
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: uncut DBD release of the film. So this commentary track
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: is twenty five years old, which is wild.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Even though it's twenty five years old, there was a
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: plethora of very insightful information we got out of this commentary.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I felt like this was another one that just was
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: information overlord overload. If I can talk in the best
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: way possible, sorry, I'll get too excited about basic insincts.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Wow up man, ready to go, dude, basically about Sharon
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Stone and you know the interrogation scene and here we are.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, this was a very good commentary track. Now
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: I have a ton of notes. I'm sure we're gonna
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: have a lot to talk about as we go on.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: There is I will say, obviously, if you've never listened
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: to an audio commentary track, and if you decide you're
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: going to, uh, well, if you're gonna listen to this,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: spoilers because we're gonna get into everything. But I don't
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: know why you're listening to this if you haven't seen
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: the movie anyway, This is an audio commentary track that's
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: that's packed with information. There's also a lot of interesting
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: tidbits about character motivations and movements and reasons that don't
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: lend to this conversation because those are much more kind
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: of in the moment and they're pointing out little details
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: about character manipulations or little things like that. So I
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: did not take a bunch of notes about that stuff,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: because that works best during your watch with the tray. Sure,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: so sure, even if you're somebody who's seen the movie
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: a couple of times. Outside of the information that we're
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: gonna chat about on here, it's also just great hearing
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Paul Verhoven go on and on and on because every
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: single scene he's doing it with pointing out little details
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: in the performance, pointing out kind of the ebbs and
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: flows of the character manipulations and stuff. It's very interesting.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So commentary too. I felt like like there it's like
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: rapidfire with how much information you're getting, and you know,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: just like certain viewpoints on certain scenes. It's I thought
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: it was. It was incredible.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you ready to uh ready to get
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: into it.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: All?
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Right, then, how do you feel about Sharon Stone nearly
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: fainting during the opening scene because of the amount of
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: blood used.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Don't worry there to catch her.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this opening seed is the best of the best, bro.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I just have to I have to talk about it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: So there's a couple moments in here that I feel like,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: when I think of this movie, these scenes come to mind,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: and this is definitely one of them. The way that
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: it's filmed, with the use of mirrors, and it's unclear,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: like really, I mean, we don't know the context right,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It's it's a very intimate scene that you know, under
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: normal circumstances, this is never something we have to worry about.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: But it escalates very quickly, kind of going back to
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: what I was mentioning earlier, and it is goes from
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: being seductive erotic and just ramps up with the violence
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: very quickly.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: There was a period of my life with this movie.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: I never made it past this opening scene because my
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: interest was strictly on this obviously this opening scene, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: then it becomes a little too talky for me as
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: a kid. I was like, oh, yeah, this is boring now,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: But there's a couple of good notes that Paul Bereeoven
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: goes over and he and he, he talks about a
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: lot very fast, and I tried my best to like
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: pick out what I thought was most interesting for conversation.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: But one thing that I thought was interesting is that
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: he talks about how all of the erotic scenes in
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: the film were shot without stand in. So typically in
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: a movie, anytime you don't see their face, usually in
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: these sex scenes, it is a stand in or body double,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: as you'll hear being referenced. So all of these scenes,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: these are the actors. This is Sharon Tate, this is
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I forget his name, Sharon Tate. Oh my god, what
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: am I?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: No, fifty episodes. I'm in the manson.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I told you, man, you start talking about Sharon Stone,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: it gets you messed up.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Geesh brother. Yeah, So this is Sharon Stone, This is
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: her and everything. This is Michael Douglas in every single scene.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: And this introduction of our character Katherine Trammel played by
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Sharon Stone using the ice pick to kill Johnny Boss
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: is still, in my opinion, the best single sequence in
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: erotic thriller history.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Oh easily, Oh okay.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I was hoping you were gonna agree, but I was
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: also hoping you would disagree to give me a counter argument,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: but well, I'll accept it.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I would say, Yeah, I feel like that. There's there's
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: a couple others that come to mind, but this is
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: definitely at the top of the list because it's it's
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: such an intimate way to kill somebody. Like I think
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: that this is I don't know how to explain it.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Like there, it's just uh cold, it's cold open, right,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I mean you know the way that and it's like
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: just with such excessive for worse, the way that it
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: goes down, just rage. There's like this this rage behind
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: like how how this blonde woman is attacked in this
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: victim in just such a manner that's like, I mean,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like you only see this in Slashers.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's very angry. And there's so many details
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: that are set up in the opening scene, such as
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: her tying his hands to the back of the bed
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: with the white scarf that gets brought up numerous times.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: The ice pick becomes kind of a consistent it's like
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: the trademark information yep, it's a trademark weapon. But the
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: savagery that which she kills him. This isn't just like
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: a quick and done a slit throat right and he
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: bleeds out and he's dead. This man is stabbed, I believe,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and I believe the number make beer wrong. I think
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: thirty seven times he is stabbed. And when she first
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: initially goes for the dab, she goes right for the face,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: she goes right a chest in the face. And the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: effects here are done by Rob Boutin obviously the Thing
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: fame John Carpenter.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: The Thing.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: There is a moment where the ice pick goes through
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: his face and his nose, and it's so fast and
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: harsh and gruesome. There's a tenacity to it that still
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: bothers me to this day, no matter how much I
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: watch this scene. Every single time the attack starts, it's
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: like a oh, it gets an audible reaction, and it.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Happens so quickly, like I mean, you don't even you
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: really have to watch this, I think more than once
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to really understand the magnitude of just how violent this
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: killer is. And again it just you know, for first
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: time watching this, I mean you're left wondering and like what,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: like why exactly, you know, why why be so vicious
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: with this kill.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I want to know how she got
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: the ice pick into bed? At what point did she said?
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Well? Let me ask you, though, are you like one
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: hundred percent sure in this opening scene that it's Catherine?
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's pretty after the first watch.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: The first watch, no, I wasn't one hundred percent sure.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: You watch it twice, you pick up on on the
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: game that's happening here for sake of conversation. I thought
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: about should we hide it and kind of keep it
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: the intrigued. But if you're if you're watching this, then
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: you've watched the movie, so you know that that Catherine
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Tremau was the killer the whole time. So I just
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: wanted to instantly go with it. I mean, it's pretty
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: like they try a few tricks to kind of lead
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: you on. I think, yeah. And it's more so like you're,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: you know, you're you're kind of you feel like Michael
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Douglas where you're kind of questioning who it could be
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: and kind of having this this like you know, between
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: his therapist and between Katherine Jammeel. But it's pretty clear.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I think that it's Katherine Jamiel from the from the jump, right,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: am I wrong.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm sure we'll talk about it as
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: it goes, you know, as we go through this commentary.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: But I think the fast the reason why I come
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: back to a film like this is because the the
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: chessboard is constantly moving, right, a lot of open ended
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: ways you can interpret some of this, and we know
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Catherine is very manipulative, you know, throughout the entire film,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: So there's times where I wonder, I mean, I love
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: to toy with the idea of it if that's actually her.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: But as we'll talk, you know, as we get further
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: into the movie, I means she definitely has people underneath
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: her thumb.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she does. And it's right after this movie
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: that we're introduced to our other main character, Detective Nick Koran,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: played by Michael Douglas, the incredible Michael Douglas, who I
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: just watched in David Fincher's The Game a couple of
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: weeks ago.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like he's an underrated actor?
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Dude? I think Michael Douglas is the top tier.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like nobody talks about him, and this
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: guy's like tremendous.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: But who in reality though, like we live in the
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: space of movies and physical media. Who talks about Sharon
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Stone anymore?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Me?
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Unless you're us, That's what I'm saying, Unless you're us
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: in the general public. I mean, these people are getting older.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: They are technically less relevant, as much as we hate
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: to say that, but in a conversation in the nineties,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: you have to talk about them. And Michael Douglas is
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: this shit, Dude, Wall Street, Dude, The Game. That was
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: my first time watching David Fincher's The Game's song. I
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: love that movie, man, I love that movie. Ye, dude,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: that this guy is the best of the best in
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: my opinion.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Did you ever see Disclosure?
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Uh yet? Disclosure wasn't he did. Michael Douglass did a
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: couple erotic thrillers, right.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: This wasn't Fatal Attraction. He did Instinct Attraction. Let's see.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I think that those are like the main ones.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: There's actually I'm gonna on Instagram, I'm gonna post if
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: you're listening to this, I'm gonna post a really interesting,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: like behind the scenes bit that's not a bonus feature
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: on any disc where. It's Michael Douglas talking about kind
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: of this venture into movies about sex that he got
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: into m Hm and how how comfortable he got with
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: nudity and wanting to do all that. It's interesting, but I,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: you know, off the point I do love after the
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: introduction of Michael Douglastener introduced to the almost all of
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: our police figures that are arriving here at the mansion
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: to investigate this murder. There's an interesting point here that
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Paul Verhoven points out, which is any time, well, there's
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: a couple things. Actually, anytime we're with the cops, the
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: camera's always floating around, and that's obviously beyond Debond, incredible
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: cinematographer director of Twister. I just have to say that
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: a personal favorite, personal favorite of mine. But there's something
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: that he points out, and tell me if you notice this,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: especially in this sequence, the cops are always forcing the
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: camera to move. They're always leading the direction of the frame.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: So anytime the camera is panning, there is somebody moving
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: in that direction, and instead of them saying center frame
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: and moving, they kind of push against the edge of
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: the frame and that kind of motivates the camera movement.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I think it leads to the uneasiness of us not
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: really fully understanding like where things are going, what's going on.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the police more so with
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Detective Koran, you know, basically the audience, right, So we're
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: trying to piece everything together in the same way that
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the police are. And I think it's a very deliberate
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: choice with the way that they set up certain shots
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: or how it's you know, following certain scenes. But I
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: think it's a very effective way to keep us engaged.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: What to counter this, To kind of give a contrast
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: to listeners, Robert Eggers does the opposite in Nosferatu, and
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: he was very vocal about how purposely the camera would
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: move first before the characters. So there's a sequence with
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Nick Hoole is coming up to the castle and the
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: camera hands to the right to show the walkway leading
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: up to the castle, and then Nick Holet walks into
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: frame and begins going. And this is a motif that
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: goes through the entire movie because it's supposed to signal,
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: like fate, they're destined to go in this direction. So
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: it's as viewers were watching them being guided there. It's
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: almost like that's, you know, where they're being pushed to go.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Whereas in this case, this sequence is very hectic because
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: we have you have detectives, you have police, you have
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: all the crime scene chaos. There's all this great insight
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: about the mayor and Johnny Boz's investments into political stuff.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of chaos and you feel kind
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: of like pull it along. And that's why I just
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: love this And I love there being like a set
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: visual style that changes for this.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Well, and this is a film that I don't know
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: about you, but it keeps you engaged in this movie
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: from start to finish. Like the pacing on this film
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: is incredible and you never feel the run time. That's
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: what I love about this movie. I'm invested the entire time.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Because there's some films and I'm sure you know you've
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: been through this before, you kind of find yourself kind
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: of like not as actively like committed to the movie
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: as you know, I feel like we want to be.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: But this is one from start to finish it's like
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I'm locked in. I'm locked in because there's so many
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: moving parts to what's going on, the motivations, the plot,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: the whole deal.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I think this is the power of visual storytelling
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: because Yon Debant says that it keeps an energy that
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: the camera is consistently moving, because he mentions how specifically
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: with the police, you have this very kinetic camera. It's on,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like floating around. It's always moving. There's
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: always movement, as is like, there's always progress or always
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: kind of intrigue in an investigation. And then when we
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: leave the chaos of a lot of the police stuff,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: the rest of the movie, they purposely went for a
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: very Hitchcockian style, very shooting high up and down, playing
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: with low angles like keeping.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, we get that in the opening scene too.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yep. So there is a visual language to this
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: movie that as soon as I was listening to commentary track,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this makes total sense. But it
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: keeps the fact that we are constantly going, especially in
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: the first half of the movie, between the kind of
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: police investigation and the chaos of that and the unfolding
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: of information as we meet or as are as Nick
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: meets Katherine Tremel and all of that stuff, there is
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: two different visual styles happening that contrast so well, and
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: it's it's really interesting. Man. I just love I love
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: these kinds of notes from from directors.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you, so synonymous with both roles for
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: detective Koran and respectively played by Michael Douglas and Sharon Stone.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Could you see anyone else in these roles? Because when
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I was doing a deep dive into the production on
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: this film, it sounded like that there was a number
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: of different actors and actresses that have been offered the role.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: And Michael Douglas, my understanding was he was attached very
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: early on to the script or to the project. Finding
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: the lead actress for Catherine was quite the lengthy process.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: A number of actresses turned it down. I think Demi
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Moore was one possible candidate. Could you see anyone else
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: playing either of these roles? Because I think with the
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: final products, I don't know if I could.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody has the I said something
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: in the in our group chat a couple of weeks ago,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: and I believe it was along the lines of like
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: growing up growing up with basic instinct is becoming more
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: attracted to Sharon Stone with her clothes on than with
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: with them off in this movie because her character is
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: so fucking intriguing. She's magnetic, Like every moment with her
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: is crazy, dude, and she has I said this earlier,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna repeat myself. There's like a magnetism, like
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: I'm forced to pay attention to her everything.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It's a room.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: It's absolute control. And Michael Douglas does as well. But
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: we're talking two different ballparks here, two different sports, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: especially when you understand what her play is here and
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: the games that she's playing, she is just on one
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: hundred percent this entire movie. Man, Like, it's unreal.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: She is probably in my mind like one of my
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I would argue, like one of my favorite villains of
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: all time.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: This is in my top five performances of all time.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it just it's like what you said,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I mean the way that she is able to command
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: the room, you know, especially and we'll talk about it
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: here shortly, but during the interrogation scene, there's something about
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: that that like when I think erotic thrillers, that's what
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I think about. Because the stylistic choices, the lighting, the
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: contrast between the police and her, and just how she
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: is spinning this web for them to be able to
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: like kind of paint the picture. It's incredible. It's nothing
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: like it.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: You also have an incredibly smart and successful lead antagonist
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: who is a female, like just you know, that she
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: is smarter, she's more sco and she's one step ahead
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: of every male character in this movie to the point
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: where she is able to expertly. We've this web that's
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: almost bulletproof, like you're talking, these are these are like long,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: you know, experienced detectives that are trying to figure this out.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: And I mean even the play of you know, with
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: the book why you know? And wouldn't that be suspicious
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: if I was to copy the death that I wrote
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: in my own book, Like she's incredibly smart, man, And
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: it's really just an unbelievable performance from Sharon Stone.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Well, it's almost like the way that she almost taunts
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: us as the audience, you know, it's almost kind of
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: putting it out there, like is this going to be
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: the outcome? I mean, obviously we don't know early on,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: we don't know where you know, what she has planned
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: or intended for her book. We know that this is
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: this entire premise is kind of tied into that some capacity.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's crazy man.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well, before we get into the book. One
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: thing that I loved here is I think you can
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: typically describe Paul Vereahoven as a director of excess, right,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: his movies are incredibly excessive in every way. Love him
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: for that. There's a moment here when when Nick and
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: his partner Gus are pulling up to one of the
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: homes that is owned by Catherine Tremmell and it's this
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: it's this gorgeous like crane high crane shot, and Paul
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Verehoven talks about how he regrets not putting Catherine tremmill
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: on the roof, oh yeah, and having her sun tanning
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: naked just in the shot, just just like he It's like,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: it's not needed, it's this excessive.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can definitely you see, Like you know, as
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: a director, it's like where where do you draw the line?
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, for for much of this movie. I mean
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: we do see Sharon Stone in that light. I don't
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: know if it would have been necessary, but you know, listen,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: these are his words, not lying, like if you wanted
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: to throw that in there, I'm not gonna complain.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: No better entrance for her character than how she is
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: introduced at the dock in a little bit, but I
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: did want to talk about this brief interaction. She's not home,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: but her friend Roxy is home, and this is the
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: moment when Joan and Paul be going to talk about
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: some of that hitchcock influence and some of it, like
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: they also kind of bring in Orson Wells because you
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: have these very low shots where we see a ceiling,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: which is what Orson Wells essentially introduced into cinema and
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: citizen Game. And just talking about how Roxy coming down
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: the stairs, the way that she does, the way that
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: it shots, all very Hitchcocky and it just sort of
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: kicks off that visual language of the movie that we're
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: going to see again and again and again.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Well, even with her home, I mean, it's it's almost
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, I think it's a reflection
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: of Catherine where it's it it's beautiful, but it's also
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: very intimidating in a way, you know, just just with
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: how sprawling it is. You're you know, on the on
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: the coastline of where it's located. You just us is
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: the audience. It's like, we don't we don't know. I
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: feel like we're getting seduced as we're walking into the house.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: It's also like this isn't just you know, like moderate success.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: This is like she's living top tier in the city.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: This first this is one of her two homes, and
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: this house is gorgeous and we see it a cop
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: It definitely is the movie. This is like a phenomenal
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: piece of property, and the production designed the location scouting
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: for this movie is a one because this is a
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: practical location. A lot of the movie is in practical
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: locations outside of I think mostly the police station, like
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: the interiors, but it's just a gorgeous house and it
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: just begins to show what kind of person we're dealing with,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: this level of success that she has.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: The home is located near Carmel by the Sea, so
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: it's just south of San Francisco. But some of those
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: just those shots of you know, you see like the ocean,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: the waves crashing, even even during the drives, like a
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: lot of that is just I don't know, it's it's
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: the whole movie is very seducing, Like it's it just
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: kind of keeps you, like pulled in. You're trying to
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: figure out what's going on, and it just looks stunning
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: a lot like Catherine herself.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and even more so, like we're introduced kind
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: of in this run of scenes, we're introduced to Janna
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Tripplehorn's character, doctor Beth Gardner, who Michael doctor or doctor detective.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of titles here with characters that Nick
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: has to see, and this is his therapist based off
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: a previous incident with a partner of his. He's got
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: a history, he has a he has a history. And
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: one thing that's incredible here is that this was actually
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Gianna triple Horn's first like real film role. She she
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: is credited with being an extra in one other movie
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: before this, but Paul Verhoven talks about how she was
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: just absolutely incredible in this and she did have to
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: tone down a bit because acting to you know, an
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: audience live is very different than acting to a camera.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm. But what I thought, like, and of course
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: it's just the most Paul Verhoven thing to say, was
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: she was already comfortable with nudity because of some of
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: the performances on stage, and he was like, and that
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: was a big plus.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I appreciate his honesty. But yeah, she's she's like low key,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: like she's kind of a sleeper performance in this film,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: you know, where she's a very a very different contrast
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: to her relationship with Detective Koranne. But nonetheless, as we
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: see as the film progresses, I would say it's important
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: in its own way.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I absolutely think so. Man, she is fantastic, and
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: she's the other female, like I don't know if it's
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: an antagonist. I don't know what to consider her, but
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: she there's two female influences pulling Detective Dick in two
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: different ways. Obviously he's romantically involved with both of them,
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: as we come to find out. And there's some connections
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: here that are some past between characters here that that
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: will get unraveled, that are very very interesting. What do
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: you think about the Catherine's other house on the on
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: the water.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I mean it's breathtaking. Yeah, I mean it's just a
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: lot of the scene. The way that they set up
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: some of these scenes, the locations, it just amplify or
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: just amplifies just how well well off she is. I
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: mean that's that's a I don't know, like they I
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: feel like the director did incredible job with that.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: Now I have another question to ask you. This is
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: very important. Have you ever been as attracted to anybody
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: who smokes in the world like Shared Stone.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone comes close. It's again, it's something
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: that I don't think we see all that often. And
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: and right, and I get it, but there's something about
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: that in a film like this that just is like
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: the icing on the cake. It just kind of adds
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: that like accent to teach one of these scenes to
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: kind of you know, real like reel us in, right.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, with these conversations, you know what they're discussing
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: or you know, going at it about. But she pulls
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: it off, that's for sure.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: It also acts as a device for manipulation because then
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: the scenes coming up, she asks Michael Douglas if he
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: has a if if he has a lighter, He says no.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: She asks if he smokes, He says he quit, and
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: then she says she asks again later on if he
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: wants a cigarette. So it's a little tool that she
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: continues to use, and it gets brought up a couple
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: of times in the movie about how then how he
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: quit and then she he's smoking again, so she challenges again.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: It's kind of this running motif that he kind of
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: played back and forth with each other throughout the movie.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Well it's it's not only just that, but you know,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: we know, like obviously he has a history of alcoholism,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: drug abuse, you know, has a part track record. You know,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: while on the Force. So I mean we see in it,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: you know, as we get a little bit further into it,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, he starts slipping into these old tendencies because
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: he's being seduced by Catherine, which I think is just
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: so fascinating. It's basically like, I mean, he's he's kind
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: of falling, falling for everything that you know, she's laying
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: out there for him.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: She's also just breaking them down, like just completely tearing
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: down every wall he's put up to kind of fix
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: and repair himself or at least the facade that he's
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: put up. And you know, because you could argue that
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: these problems were never really gone, they were just temporarily
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: put away and it just took her to come along
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: and you know, challenge him just enough to kind of
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: bring them back to the surface. You know.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and what I thought was interesting, I mean,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of controversy with her character because
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: we see obviously she surrounds herself. We talked about Roxy
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: and Hazel as well, right, so all of which have
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: a very checkered past to say the least, and her
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Catherine's like preferences, I guess, you know, would be the
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: best way to put it. I know that that creates
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: some level of controversy because of the way that it
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: was portrayed, which I thought was was fascinating. I mean,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: it's it's a different side to a villain in a film,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: so kind of deep diving into that, I thought that
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: aspect of the film was really interesting.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's a couple for like my visual nerd
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: friends out there who just love like the visual in
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: like tidbits of filmmaking. The scene when Gus and Nick
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: pick up Catherine to bring her back to the station
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: is a driving sequence, and they're all like the hilly,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: you know, mountain side of San Francisco, And this was
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: all shot in an actual moving car, Like this was
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: not rear projection. They specifically shot this in a real
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: car that was actually driving, which is so rare anymore
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: to see because everything now is CG in cars. But
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: I even loved them talking about how there's a particular
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: moment where the light hits her a very certain way
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: and they had to actually like find a stretch of
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: road to times creating and figure it out. And it's
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: just like anymore, no studio is giving them the time
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: or the money to do this is do it in post,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: do it in posts.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: It's it just shows their level of commitment to making
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: sure that those scenes turn out the way that they
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: were intended, because that sequence is just again, you know,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: she's continuing to kind of play the cat mouse game
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: with them, and we get that all the way up
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: and you know once from that time, all the way
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: up into the interrogation scene.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: Well we're here, I'll have you know. We're both sweaty
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: as sweaty as.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Wayne I was watching this, that's for sure.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: The interrogation scene probably one of the finest examples of
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: class A filmmaking ever. I mean, this is like film
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: school study. There are moments in how the camera moves
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: into scene, and the tension and the focus on certain characters,
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: and even the way even the way they lit her
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: versus them. I mean, this sequence is perfect on every level,
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: the writing, the editing, you know, the cinematography. Like this
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: is just absolutely a perfect example.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Of my masterclass movie making.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Like it's i mean.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: It's just as a whole is everything that outside of
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: you know, certain moments, but outside of that, it's everything
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: that I love about erotic thrillers because look at the
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: contrasts that we get between the police and her, the
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: deliberate lighting choices, the way that you know they're going
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: back and forth in the conversation. We're just trying to
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: understand her, her motives. Is she the killer? We're not
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: at this point, We're not really sure. And it's just
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: you can kind of cut the tension.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: With a knife, yeah, or an ice pack, you can, yeah,
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: you can break it with an ice pick. This is
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: also just in my mind, like classic filmmaking, if you
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: if you go back to, if you go back to
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: you know, the forties and the fifties, like this is
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: this was how they built tension with the editing and
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: the camera policement in the movement and kind of dollying
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: quickly from one side of a character to another. We
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: see this a lot in some especially in like noir
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: or noir examples there. It's just it's it's incredible filmmaking,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: and it's patient, even though it is fast, it moves
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: very quickly. It just builds character, It builds tension, it
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: builds intrigue. And then you have arguably the most infamous
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: movement from this movie of all time, the leg cross,
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: which we have to talk about because they talk about
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: it in the.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: I had to go back a couple of times just to,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: you know, make sure I got all my notes.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: I had absolutely, I understand completely. Do you have any notes,
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: particularly on the leg cross movement.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Well, the first time I had seen it, I didn't
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: know that that was that was such a big controversy,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: and I wasn't expecting it either. But it's quick, and
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I think in hindsight, is it as big of a deal.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure she felt like it was, but
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: it's it gets people talking, right, I think that's one
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: of the talking points that you have with this film
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: and the controversy behind it. But I think it I
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: think it works to this specific moment and the film
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: overall to its advantage because it's, yeah, pushing the envelope well.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: In discussion of restoration and improvement in how we watched
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: visually movies, how they improve a change over time. Originally,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: like you couldn't really see much on the VHS, right,
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: it wasn't as clear now on like I don't even
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: have the four K. I have the Blu ray and
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: this was in plain sight, so I'm sure in the
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: four K it's even more apparent. How did it look
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: on the forecat the scene not.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: For research purposes of course, yes, No, I mean, I
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: mean you can definitely see what's going on there. But
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you, like I am I wrong.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I feel like that there's been other films that were
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: coming out in the eighties and nineties where I felt
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: like you got more like nudity. I didn't feel like
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: for as much as this gets talked up, I mean
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: there's other ones where I feel like I've seen more
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: than just this.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I don't think. I don't think the
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: conversation about it is really stuck on particularly what we see,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: because then not only was it harder to see, but
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: also your eye doesn't go there right away. And I
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: feel like a lot of people missed it because until
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: video you couldn't rewind. So you know, when you're in
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: a theater, if you miss this, then you have no
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: idea what's going on because it's not a shot, it's
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: a it's a medium shot on her whole body and
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: she just crosses her legs. And there were people who noticed,
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: and it, you know, started controversy, and then there were
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: people who have no idea that even happened because they
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: didn't see it.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: They if Sharon Stone was pissed too, because she was
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: under the impression that they weren't. That wasn't going to
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: be used in the film. I believe it was up
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: until the screening happened and the director left it in there,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: which it's kind of a ballsy choice, you know, Yeah,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, he was definitely taking what
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: would you say, artistic liberties with keeping it in.
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: Well, there's some interesting and we're never gonna know who's
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: right who's wrong. They do talk about how at the
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: time of recording this in two thousand and one that
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: Sharon Stone wasn't as upset about it, because this has
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: become kind of one of the key moments in the movie,
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: and this is kind of the pop culture movement that
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: made this movie what it was. Right, this was one
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: of those big factors. And for sure, Yon de Bond
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: actually says that Paul Vereven wasn't even on the set
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: when they shot us, So this wasn't a Paul Verhoven,
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: at least not in the moment shot. It might have
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: been storyboarded like this angle and this sequence happening, but
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Yandabant was on set, Paul Verehoven was not according to them,
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: And then Yandubant kind of defends himself and Paul by
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: kind of saying like, well, if I'm pointing a camera
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: there and there's a there's a light on it, then
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: you're gonna see it. Like he kind of approaches it
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: from a way of like, how are you surprised, Like
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: you agreed to do the shot and we got the shot,
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: and then you're surprised that you can see what's in
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: the shot. So it is a little bit like you know,
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: in supposedly, according to Yandubant, Sharon Stone reviewed all of
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: the footage of her scenes, like she saw this before
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: the screening and had no issues with it, suppose.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: So it's fascinating because it's like, you know, there's obviously
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: two sides of the story.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly why I don't want to say this is wrong,
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: this is right, this is yeah, we're told in the track.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: On an unrelated note, can we just point out Jerry
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: goldmiss or I got Golden Smith. Sorry, I'm I got
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: I'm all tripped up over my words over the scene,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: but Jerry Goldsmith's score for this film, yeah, and just
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: my understanding, it took him a while to get the
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: just score right, exactly what they were looking for. Even
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Goldsmith said it was one of the most difficult scores
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: he's ever done, which I thought was really interesting. I mean,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: he's responsible for we were talking about this earlier Alien, Poltergeist,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: First Blood, Psycho two. I believe he also did the
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Omens sequels as well.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: I believe so. And you know what, this sound, this
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: sound that he creates is very synonymous with me and
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: nineties thrillers because one of my favorite films came a
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: year later, which is The Fugitive, and that was scored
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: by James Newton Howard, which in my opinion, has a
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: very similar tone to it. Not to say it was
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: inspired by or anything like that, but when I think
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: of nineties thrillers, this score, this style is what I
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: hear in my head.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I always forget that he also did the first Omen,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: so it was it was that in the sequels.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, oh yeah, he did do the first like
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: like the Gregory Peta, the first one, the first Omen
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: prequel film from twenty twenty two, not to be confused
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: with that. Not to be confused. Did you know that
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: a detective nik Kran has sex with doctor Beth Gardner.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you know that or not.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: It was something I don't I think. Go on, anyways,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about that suck well.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: Did you also know that it received some backlash, which
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: the way Paul Verhoven says, this is kind of interesting
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: to me, and I tried to do some further research
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: and couldn't really find much. But according to him, the
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: gay community was very angry at this scene because it
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: seemed to be interpreted as like a date rape, the
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: scene between Beth Garner and Nick, and it was mostly
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: because of the brutality of it, because there is this
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: running theme throughout the movie of like a sado masochism,
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: Like there's a roughness to all of the sexuality in
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: this movie, and there's this constant switching between her seeming
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: like she is into and wants it that way, and
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: then there's also movements where she fights back against it,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: and it's really not clear how to take.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: This, I'll be honest, I mean I was kind of
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: I've seen this film multiple times, and this is like
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: a concept that I was always a little like unclear
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: on because there's times where she's telling Detective Coran to
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: stop or no, but you also can't really tell if
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: she's in Twitter or not, like it's it's yeah, it's
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: it's really like this blurredline with specifically their relationship of all.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: And it's weird because Paul Verhoeven talks about how one
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: of the things that he liked was and I never
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: thought about this, and this is very graphic. Is she
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: saying no because he's going for anal sex And I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: guess that's kept but it's not. I don't. I don't know.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: There was a little bit more of that. It wasn't
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: just in this scene, but I believe wasn't there a
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: moment that he was is in the club when they're
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: at the club. They made mention about something about that
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: with Michael Michael Douglas and Sharon Stone.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some weird there. There must have been some
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: kind of Paul Verrumn's never really clear on it, but
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: he does kind of Maybe that was a conversation that
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: was like, ah, you know, maybe she's saying no because
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: he wants to do something that she typically you know,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: will not. It's not the fact that they're about to
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: have sex, but it's the manner at which they're going
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: to I never really took it that way, and but
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: also I don't know, I'm kind of unsure because I
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: don't like the scene is so odd.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: It pushes the envelope. I mean, it's it's. Yeah, the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: relationships in any of the with any of the characters
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: in this film, they're all messy, right, We're not really
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: sure the motivations one hundred percent. And this is another
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: one where it's like, Okay, they obviously have like some
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: sort of a history together, and you know, we know
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: doctor Garner's obviously has you know, she has history with
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: some other characters in this film as well, So start
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: peeling back the layers.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, moving ahead a little bit to the scene
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: when our detective is following Catherine Tremmel. I have a
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: note here that says, people talk about Tom Cruise doing
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: all of his own stunts, but Michael Douglass did most
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: of his driving in this sequence and it's insane. That's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: literally what my note says, word for word that the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: driving on the windy roads the very busy, and there's
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: at one moment where he actually makes contact with another car.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: It's unbelievable that he did this himself.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: And this is why we love the movie this is it?
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: This is it? Well, he is, I mean Tom Cruise
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: is also committed, but like, hey, Michael Douglas.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: He might have the edge.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: There's also a moment when he gets to the house,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: when he's following her. And I want to talk to
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: you about this because Paul mentions how the character of
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: Catherine Tremmel was so diabolical that Sharon Stone had no
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: interest right away to doing a sequel, and he imagines
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: that it took her so long to do a sequel
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: because of entering the mindset of this character. My question
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: to you is, why is Basic Instinct to a pile
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: of shit?
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Because we didn't we didn't need a sequel. This is
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: It's like I feel like going from Godfather to to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Godfather three. It's it's a film nobody was asking for.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe maybe there was some out there that
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: wanted Basic Instinct too, but I feel like the the
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: it's like catching lightning in a bottle for the first one,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: and to follow up with this film what fourteen years later.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: Is yeah, what was that two thousand and six?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: It came out.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Evan to those te six Yes, fifteen years later and
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: it's not good. I mean, no it's like shear, like
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: they're how do I weard?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: This?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Just not good? Just pile of shit, just like not interesting.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Sharon Stone is good in it, like she's great, but
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: the movie is just not interesting. You can clearly see
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: the difference between a director like Paul Verrhoven and whoever
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: the hell directed Basic sing Too, not even in the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: same ballpark.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it also doesn't help. I mean, you
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: don't have somebody opposite her, you know, the same way
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: you did Michael Douglass. I mean I feel like that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: that's hard to you know, recapture that rapport that they
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: had in this film.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: So it's just also not interesting, Like, Okay, she got
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: away and she moved to London, and then the same
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: thing's gonna happen again in London. It's not reason enough
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: to make a sequel fifteen years, It's not at all.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: I also have a note here that says, hell raise
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: her on the TV in the background, Hell, yeah, yeah,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: that's you know, one of.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: My enhances the nightmare aspect of what's going on and
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: what he's going through.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: And it's the moment when Kirsty gets attacked by the
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: Leviathan and it's Paul Verruven talks about how he chose
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: that because it's supposed to be like Nick Kran being,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: you know, trapped in the halls being chased down by
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: a monster that he can't control aka Catherine Tremil. Do
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: you think the interrogation scene with Kuran is hotter than
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: the woman Sharon Stone?
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: Sure, Oh my god, genius. I love how the roles
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: are reversed here. I love that we do this scene
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: again almost almost shot, almost shot for shot, no Raine night,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: but very close, that we do this again. I just
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: I just have it.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: It doesn't carry it doesn't carry quite the same weight,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: but I can appreciate it for what it is because obviously,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: you know, the dynamics changing.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: I love the uh, you can't smoke in here? What
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: are you going to arrest me for smoking? Repeated again,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: except this time by Michael Douglass. The smoking keeps coming
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: back and back and back keeps coming back. I just
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: love that they do this again, and that the it's
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: flipped now Nick is on the other side of it
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: and it's not as not as intriguing.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: But no, it's in it. But I think it's it's
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: the perfect juxtaposi, juxtaposition.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: Right anyways, juxtaposition.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I was right. But because he's questioning things,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: he's unsure, you know, he's obviously becoming further and further
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: tied up with Catherine that I feel like in a way,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: and even us as the audience, we're trying to figure
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: out maybe she, maybe she, Maybe it's not her, Maybe
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: there's more to this than we were, like we actually
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: realized so, And I think it just reinforces just the
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: uncertainty of everyone's motives involved in this case.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, the you know, the big thing here is
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: if you're gonna if you're gonna play a game like this,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: you have to have a you have to have a
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: pawn that that will become who you need them to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: become for the game to play out properly. Right, there
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: needs to be this this de evolution of the character
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: that is to a certain extent predictable and gullible and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: has defenses up that you can now draw down to
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: understand and be able to predict the next move. Right.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: If you have somebody who is more put together, they're
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: they're unpredictable, whereas in this case, Nick Kran is very predictable,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: So he plays perfectly into her trap. But what we're
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: beginning to see here is this questioning of his this
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: continued questioning of his ability to perform the task as
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: of a police officer, of a detective. There's suspicion on
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: him him because of his relationship that's forming with Catherine Tremmell,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: as well as questioning of his past, and this moment
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: we kind of see a different side of him. This
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: is aside with a little bit more confidence and a
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: little bit more of understanding that he's in a game,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: but not smart enough to understand that him attempting to
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: regain control and becoming this person is playing into exactly
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: what she needs him to be doing.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's setting everything up. I mean, she's very deliberate
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: with the way that she's setting you know, certain players
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: into the position that she needs them to or things
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: to line up in a certain order. But it's it's
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: very deliberate, I mean, as we see as the film
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: goes on.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, hence like this sequence here where Nick his leave
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: goes into effect, he is officially off the force temporarily
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: and he goes to his apartment in Catherine Tremmelle's there
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: and she says, oh, I heard what happened. You know,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: I have people who told me, and you have this
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: sort of like kind of what seems like blossoming friendship
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: and relationship and kind of like some lines begin to
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: get blurred and crossed, and Paul talks about specifically in
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: this moment in the apartment, this continued regain of control
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: over Catherine, or the illusion of controls, and we begins
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: kind of shooting back at her more than he has before.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: And we see this theme throughout the entire film because
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: in a way, she is exerting the control all the
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: way up from the very beginning and when she's being
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: interrogated and everything that follows suit afterwards. But even I
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: have a note and here like when they go to
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: the club, and I feel like, uh, Detective Koran is
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: kind of the entire film, He's constantly fighting for the control,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: you know, with with her or with others. And it's
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: just so fascinating because it's it just continues to play
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: back and forth, kind of push it like, you know,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: push and pull with with how far things can go.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it does. And it's it's an interesting dynamic
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: because we as the audience are given an illusion of
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: a control shift here. Okay, wow, So you know, we
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: started the movie with Catherine leading Nick and Guss out
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: of the house on the way to the interrogation, showing
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: she's in control. She's in command. We have the interrogation scene.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: Now things have kind of changed because we're seeing also
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: a softer side of Catherine here. She's putting on the
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: softer appearance where she shows up, she's sorry, sympathetic to
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: him going on leave for his job. They're together in
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: the apartment. It seems like there's something blossoming, and he
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: kind of has the ability to step up and kind
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: of reclaim some of that control again. So it's an
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: interesting dynamic that really begins to play out in the
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: most interesting way for the rest of the movie from
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: this point on.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: One thing that I thought was interesting was in the
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: club scene. So this was filmed at Soundstage six at
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Studio on their lot in Burbank, But it
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: was actually influenced, I believe, by Limelight in New York City,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: which was really big during the rave scene around that time.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: Which that scene, there's something about it and just the
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: dynamic that the two have and you're trying to piece
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: things together, and it's just the backdrop with him being
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: in the club. It's already chaotic as is, and us
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: as the audience, we're still trying to figure out what
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: exactly is going on, but love it. There's something about
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: the steck that just works on so many levels for
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: this film.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: It's also just an incredibly sexy sequence. Her dancing with
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: roxy Michael Douglas's sweater is very nice.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: It's very very That's what I was going to bring up.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: But yeah, the in the scene concludes with Catherine and
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: Nick sleeping together, right, it feels like, oh fine, there's
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: a couple of emotions going into this because it's like
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: we knew this was going to happen eventually, but we're
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: also like, last time we think we saw her having
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: sex with somebody, she stabbed them thirty seven times with
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: a nice pick. So but you can't. They're not going
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: to kill off Michael Douglas. We're only we're barely going
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: into the third act. This scene between them took though,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: it does, it does. The scene took three days to film.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: It was one hundred percent. Every single movement from both
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: of those was pre written and scripted and choreographed, and
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of the scene was actually removed from the
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: theatrical cut, the American theatric cut for being just too explicit,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: and it's all back here in its glory and the
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: uncut edition how it should be, how it should We
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: should not be censoring these these moments. But apparently Michael
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: Douglas gets really into the sex scenes as far as
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: his performance. Paul Verryovin said.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: So, hey, you blame them Sharon Stone.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Three days, though, can imagine doing this for three Imagine
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: they work eight hour days three days.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: You eight hours spending time with Sharon Stone.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: It's exhausting.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Not for me. Sign me up, man, sign me up.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: Sounds sounds exhausting, man. I was like this bit where
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: A A. R. Ben talks about how they hit. They
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: actually had to reshoot the moment when Nick wakes up
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: after this night with Catherine because they had to put
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: appliances on a back on his back for the scratches
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: leaves on them which we see during the scene, and
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: apparently the first the first time they shot it, it looked
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: like he was attacked by a vampire. It was so excessive.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: It was like these massive rips on his back and
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: they were like, we gotta tone that down, so they
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: had to go back and shoot it again.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah it look painful, but yeah, yeah pain whatever.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: Three days with Sharon Stone, that's not painful. And then
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: I have a note here that just says they don't
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: they don't make car chases like they used to.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: There's a lot about this, this film that I just
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: it just puts into perspective just where we're at, you know,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: just with cinema in general. But man, I know you
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: and I have talked about this before. It's just it
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: makes me long for more of these films, at least
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: at this caliber of film, because I feel like that
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: they've tried to do that in recent years and I
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: just don't feel like it's had that same level as
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: success this Fatal Attraction, some of the other films we
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: were talking about there, like In a Tear all on
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: its own, you know.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's also things about this movie that are
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: kind of gone forever. One of those being like this
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: is shot in San Francisco, Like you're seeing real San
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: Francisco locations during the car chases. It feels palpable, you know,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: it feels real, feels on location, doesn't feel like something
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: that somebody just made up and finished with visual effects.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: And that's like this car chase with what we learned
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: to be roxy feels so incredibly real because it begins
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: with him getting hit by the car and she's drying
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: the car that Katherine Tremmell drives the whole time he
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: gets hit by the car that was done by a
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: stunt double. We see it, we feel it, the whole impact.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: It sells really well.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, we're questioning what's exactly going on too.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: Exactly Yeah, And then the car chase goes and it's
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: tense and it feels like this is what this is
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: the same feeling that I got when I watched a
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: bullet or to Live and Die in La where like
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: the cars are moving like they're they're moving fast, they're staking, yeah,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: they're they're high stakes. It's tense, and it concludes with
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: this fucking hell of a crash scene as the car
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: trumbles over the side of like what looks like a
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: bridge or an overpass into a dig site which is
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: now a skyscraper by the way. This was the basement
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: they had dug out for that actual construction.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: Site can have anything nice.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: It looks real and dude, it's the same thing that
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: like when you watch uh see, I watched Duel Spielberk.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: You're never gonna match the feeling of when the eighteen
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: wheeler goes over the side of the cliff and rolls
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: down the cliff and explodes. There's it's palpable. It feels real,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: looks real and gnarly. And that's what this car crash
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: looks like. This is a brutal car crash.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: The car smashes into the front and flips over. It's violent.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: You know, you get the feeling like, God, I hope
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: nobody was in that car like during the shooting of this,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: because that looks like somebody.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: That you're talking about in the movie. I'm like, I'm like, Chris,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: we both watched the movie. We know what happens. Rip Roxy, Yeah,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: poor went out for her, rip poor went out.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: I have a note here that basically just talks about
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: how this stretch of the commentary heading into the last
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: act is really just heavy on character motives and some
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: brief insights into like alternative alternate lines of dialogue. And
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: you know, for those of us like you and I
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: have seen this movie over and overtime over again, it's
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: interesting though we know kind of where it's heading. I
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: think this is a commentary, especially in this moment, that's
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: better for people who've only seen it a couple of times.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: Can I add one thing in yes, so and a character.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: We haven't really talked much about Lieutenant Nilsson, so we
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: know that there's been information that has been or he's
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: somehow information about Detective Koran has been put out there.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: I thought that his relationship, whether it was with Detective
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Koran or if it was with doctor Garner, and what
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: exactly was going on there and what capacity. I thought
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: that side of it was really interesting because you really
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: have to pay attention exactly what was going on and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: what was the dynamic you know, between like him and
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: you know what we're trying to basically figure out like
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: where things currently stand.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of unfolding information that, you know,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: for the sake of like a commentary conversation we didn't
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: really get on. But like the learning that doctor Beth
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: Gardner actually attended UH College and was a college friend
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: of Catherine Jammel but was also a lover of Catherine
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: Jail when they were young. We have the selling of
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: UH Nick's file yep, which yeah, which which? Which explodes?
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: We have, you know, the the the continued uncovering of
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: Catherine's a new book whom which Nick is the focus
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: of for the main character, And we learned that essentially, uh,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: you know, as soon as the book is done and
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: she's done with him, she's like, I got my book,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: I'm done. I don't need you anymore.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: But isn't this a reflection of like how she is overall?
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: She uses people? Right?
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I mean, what better way to write a
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: character than to watch it unfold in real life? You know?
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: And it's it's it's actually it's incredibly genius. It's it's
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: manipulative and it's evil and it's disgusting.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: But like.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: It's probably a hell of a book, you know what
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, Like, let's be real. We would read that book.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, we would.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: Read that So there's there's there's so many there's so
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: many different things happening here. And I brought up this
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: moment in particular when he shows up to her house
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: and he sees that the book is being finalized and printed.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: There's this interesting thing that Paul Vereven brings up where
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: this confrontation where she tells him like, I don't need
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: you anymore. My book is done, We're done, and it
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: turns into an argument. They shot this in two different takes.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: They did a take where Michael Douglass would get angry
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: and Catherine would respond softer, and then another where that
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: dynamic flipped.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: And I thought this was interesting that when he pointed
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: this out.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the end result was a combination of both
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: of the takes. And I had just finished a review
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: for the commentary track of American Psycho that's going to
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: be in next month's Physical Media Advocate magazine, and I
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: love hearing Mary Herron talk about how for the sequences
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: between Willem Dafoe the detective and Patrick Bateman, they had
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: William Dafoe play the role in three different ways, you know,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: one that he was not suspicious at all, one where
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: he was a little bit suspicious, in one where he
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: was like pretty confident, And they shot them all three
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: and then used all three takes in the sequence. That way,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 3: you never truly got a full understanding of how he felt,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: which is why he kind of like there's this bouncing
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: around of exactly like oh does he note, does he not.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: Oh he doesn't. Oh he does, same trick pulled here,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: except this was nine years before American Psycho, and it's
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: it's really genius, Like that's incredible. You know, filmmaking and
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: character direction and editing on full display in the scene
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: because it works wonderfully.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: I learned something new every day, man, Thanks Chris.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, you're very welcome. You're welcome. So the culmination
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: of everything, right, go ahead, please.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll let you, I'll let you explain. I have
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: a question once once we get past this point. They
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: wanted to bring up.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I just had one more actual note, and it's
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: that when when the movie was was was over, after
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: Michael Douglas saw the film at the premiere and everything
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: was finished, there's there's a moment when uh, Detective Nick
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: pulls up to his apartment and this is after the
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: death of Gus. This is the whole sequence that happens
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: in the hotel where Gus is killed and he just
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: shot Beth because he thinks she's gonna pull a gun
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: out of her pocket, and all the all the cards
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: have been drawn now, right, and everything that Catherine Tremul
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: has been putting in place is now unfolded and and worked.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: There's a moment when Nick goes home and he kind
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: of pulls about side and kind of quickly gets out
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: of his car and goes into you know, begins going
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: to the house to go towards the end of the
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: to lead us into the end of the movie. And
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: Michael Douglas mentioned that when they saw the premiere, he
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: was like, man, I should have taken a moment and
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: just stayed in car and kind of processed everything that
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: just happened. He's like, but no, I quickly got out
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: of the car as directed to win in and I
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: just thought that was interesting. And I was wondering if
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: that would kind of change the emotional impact of the
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: end of the movie for you if he had.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Done that, I think, I'm like, I mean, hearing that
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: in hindsight, obviously it makes you kind of pause and
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: wonder if it would add anything to it. But to
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: be honest, I mean, I'm happy with with how how
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: it was played out. You know. The So what I
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: was going to bring up with you was how involved
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: did you feel like doctor Garner was. If we're looking
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: at this as like a whole what like, how involved
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: did you truly feel like she was throughout the film.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: I feel like she is sort of the like she
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: almost feels like collateral damage. M hm, you know, and
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that sometimes you become a player in a
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: game you've never intended to be in. But unfortunately she
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: gets more involved, especially when she, you know, kind of
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: stands up for him and gives him an helps him
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: with his alibi when the question on if he killed
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: detective what was his name again? It was when he
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: killed uh or Lieutenant Nielsen, you know, when he's like
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: all of his home, you know, they're like, are you
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: drinking again? And she steps up and says, hey, I
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: did see him. It was you know, yeah, backs him up.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: You know, she got herself more involved and deeper involved,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: and I do just feel like she just she had to.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: It had to end this way for the for the
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: game to go, even though I genuinely don't think she
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: had any nefarious like role to play in it all.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: She's I mean, she's going to she's going to grab
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: his keys.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's gonna grab his keys. Nick is the one
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: who reacts so suddenly because of his suspicions. Yeah, and
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: he makes the mistake of shooting her dead. And what's
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: crazy is is she becomes the unfortunate victim, but then
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: she also becomes the the blame for everything she takes.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's dead, so she can't respond to it.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: She's not gonna go to prison, but like she becomes
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: the the fall guy for for everything. What do you
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: think do you think she No?
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think she was an unfortunate victim.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: She was too close to the fire with this. Yeah,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: the level of involvement that she had with Lieutenant Nielsen.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like you keep playing with fire, you
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: know you're gonna get burned. I mean a lot of
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: these players, outside of our two main characters, it didn't
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: end well for anybody for that matter. The one character
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: that I still after watching this film multiple times, I
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: was trying to like Pinpoint, because we obviously know Roxy
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: in her relationship with Catherine, But the one that I
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: thought I was always fascinated by was Hazel because there
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: seems to be like some weird type of like I
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: don't even know if I would consider it sexual at tension,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: but a different like rapport with Catherine compared to like
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: how she is with Roxy and It's almost like I
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: felt like that was at least like the looks that
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: she's giving or her demeanor, it felt like she was
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: kind of controlling of Catherine in a way. I don't
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: know if you picked up on that. I thought it
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: was very strange because every time I watch it, I'm
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: always like left kind of questioning. I know, she's got
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: to check her past, right, but it makes it definitely.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: Makes the one side on her her on her report
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 3: mm hmmm.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: And then we we know with like roxy she had
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: who is who is it that she had killed her
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: younger brothers?
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, both of her younger brothers. Yeah, yeah, who were kids?
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: I mean like little kids.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: And then you have the dynamic between doctor Garner and
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: Catherine with like the jealousy aspect, and you know, we're
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: like unclear to what extent that went. I don't know.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: This movie is just it's it's fascinating because there's so
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: much John pack. It's a very complex film.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 3: It is, Yeah, it is. I don't know. I mean
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: I like to think that like maybe I mean I
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: like to kind of think that Katherine Tremil like this
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: was just all her, you know, she was all in
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: control and every things she did was for misdirection, And
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, the scene when Nick follows her
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: and we're introduced to Hazel and he goes up to
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: the mailbox to get the name and the address that
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: he can look up the history. It's almost like she
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: got her involved just to kind of give some misdirect
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: or just to kind of you know her. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: But it's also kind of the thing of like a
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: lot of people who write books have ghost authors, and
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: maybe there's some influence that's never explored, or maybe there's
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: some you know, maybe there is some kind of help
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: going on, but she's surrounded by people that are just
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: as shady. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to say like
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: just as evil as her, because we don't really know
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: too much of the intention behind unfortunately, the tragic past
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 3: of these two characters and what happened to cause whatever happened.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: But definitely, you know, they say, you you become who
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: you're surrounded by, and she's surrounded by some people that
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: aren't so great, you know, not at all. So it's
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: there's a lot to unpack here, man. I mean, there's
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: probably a million other podcasts out there that dive into
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: these things, probably way more in depth than we will,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: but that's not what our show is. You know, we
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: wanted to learn what we learned from the commentary and
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: this is This is what is most fascinating to me
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: about film is that this film is now what thirty?
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: How am I? This came out a year after I
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: was thirty six years old, thirty five years old, and
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: we're still talking about it in this way, and we
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 3: still have questions and we're still curious or there are
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: things that are not answered or not fully explored.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: It's like less is more and that this is a
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: big problem. And you were talking about this earlier, how
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: they don't make films like this anymore. But what I
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: love about it is that it doesn't need to overexplain.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't need I don't need more than
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: they provide me. I like to I like to not know,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: to be honest, Like a lot of this stuff, leave
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: it open, end it because it gives us conversation pieces
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: like we're you know, we're discussing here on a podcast episode.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: That's what makes it so impactful.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: I don't need everything buttoned up. You can leave things
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: it doesn't like. For some reason, it feels like screenwriters nowadays,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: or I don't even know if it's the fault of
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 3: screenwriters or if it's producers that are kind of like
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: undermining the intelligence of an audience. But you know, not
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: everything has to have an answer for us to understand
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: what role it plays in the story of the film.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: All we need to know is that Hazel is suspicious
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: in some way because of her past. There's a homicide
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: on her record. I don't need that more explored to
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: understand where she kind of fits into story and kind
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: of like where where the miss direct is like it
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: works just fine how it is.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: I agree, And for the final scene that we get,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: is this not the perfect way to end this film
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: because the tension, the tension is is off the charts
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: by this point. Yeah. And there's there's moments where you
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: think that that's where it's gonna go. It doesn't go there,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: and you think, Okay, maybe we can let our guards
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: down as an as an audience as a whole, right
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: and it and it even the director makes mention of
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: this with like the subtle, the fading out shot that
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: they do, and then it brings it back and there's
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: a moment where we see Catherine you know they're obviously
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: her and Detective Korean are both in bed together, and
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: there's a moment where she starts reaching over. He's sitting
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: there in bed. He's sitting, you know, basically with his
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: you know, head on the pillow, you know, just kind
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: of like a more of like a somewhat of an
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: upright position, and she's reaching over, and then he goes
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: and turns away from her, leaving his back exposed. And
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: I remember the first time watching it, I'm thinking to
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: myself like, oh, this is it, Like, this is it. Yeah,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: this is just going to reaffirm like kind of what
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: we thought all along. And then bull misdirect and they
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: just engage in this passionate moment of them them kissing,
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: and then we get that iconic scene at the very
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: end and we see what's underneath the bed ten ten.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: It's I mean, this is like just pure like grade
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: S filmmaking. Like you have the tension of her reaching
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 3: we think, oh my god, it's gonna happen, and then
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: it doesn't, and then you're relaxed. And then the moment
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: the camera continues going and you see that the ice
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: pick is actually on the floor. The fact that it's
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: even there, it just heightens it even more and then boom,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: the movie's over.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: And what's incredible about it is like, okay, so you
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: you obviously the the that closing sequence is so impactful.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: But we know that Catherine has now at this point
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: she's outsmart the police. Nick is basically controllable by her.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: We know that, and we know like when they're sitting there,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: lay in bed together, they're talking about like, you know,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: the future, right, long term plans together. But us as
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: the audience knows that, at least how I interpret it,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: that's not gonna be the case. He's never gonna see it.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: And it's just reinforces once she goes in and you know,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: reaches over and then eventually we end up seeing that
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: the ice pick was underderneath the bed the whole time.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: It's incredible, fucking incredible.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the absolute perfect ending for this movie. Man,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 3: Absolutely a perfect ending. I couldn't think of a better
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: way to close it. And if you see basic Instinct two,
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: we find out I don't I don't remember, I didn't
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 3: watch it all the way.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: There is there is in my mind, there's no sequel. Yes,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: is just this This is a perfect film.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, this was such a great choice to cover
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: our first erotic thriller. I'm gonna give you the credit
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: on this one because this was your call. You deserve it.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: Here's your crime.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: You can just give me eight hours of Sharon soone.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: Oh oh my god.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: For research obviously for the podcast.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what you're gonna be doing. Reason for Beyond
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: the Blood. Great move.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: We're researching Basic Instinct two together.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 3: As always. Uh, go listen to the to the audio
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: commentary track. There's a ton more in this track than
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: what we covered here. We just kind of picked what
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: we felt like we're the best for conversation purposes, where
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: we felt we're the most interesting. You know, we are
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: not the penultimate guide to the commentaries. Please go back
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: and give it a listen yourself. I listened to this
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: on the Studio Blu ray of the uncut edition. You
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: have the Studio four K.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: I think you said, m yep from mind Eskate Limited, and.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 3: Even if you have the DVD, it's still there. There
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 3: is another audio commentary with I Believe a critic and
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: a feminist.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: And there was an older one too. I don't know
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: if yours had the release from the director it was.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, there's another one with with with Paul Verhoven, Yeah,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: just him alone. Yeah, So please go back and give
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: this a listen. You know, audio commentaries are an incredible
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 3: resource if you love these movies, and I think in
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: this case, this is one that would only kind of
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: This makes me like, I can't wait to go watch
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: this again knowing all of this and watching it just
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: in its original form without the commentary track picking up
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: on this little stuff again. Man, why you love this?
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: You have no idea how happy this made me for
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: us to finally be able to cover this film. Like
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: you guys listen, I know you and I talk about
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: it at nauseum, but this is truly a subgenre that
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: I'm You've got Shiallo films, you got slashers, but above all,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: you have erotic thrillers. That is is a subgenre a
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: I am beyond passionate about. So I'm very excited to
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: start covering these.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 3: And we couldn't predict because we didn't plan what our
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: fiftieth episode was going to be. But basic instinct, episode
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: number fifty of Beyond the Blood, I think it's very fitting.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: I think this was the perfect culmination. It's all been
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: leading to this movement, you know, and.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: Then kind of like Catherine's plans this.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this has all been the manipulation and planning of
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: Catherine Jamila has led to the fiftieth episode of Beyond
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: the Blood and the first video episode. It's all, it's
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 3: all just it's coming together.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: You know, there's ice mix and uh, there's beds and nudity,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: there's nudity and man about to go. Just get off
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: this and go watch that movie again.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: You know. I just see that your your phones do
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: not disturb. I'm like, okay, well, yeah, talk to you
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: tomorrow then.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: You true, Yeah, yeah, I'll talk to you later. Yeah,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: let's round this out, man. Basic Instinct now available on
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 3: four K, available in blue red, available on DVD, go
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 3: listen in.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: A format by an any format, it doesn't matter.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: Just own it, man, just must have own this movie.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 3: I think we have some big we have some big
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 3: plans coming up on the show. Nothing that's like I
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: really want to kind of dish out yet because we
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: still need to talk about some of them. Yeah, we
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 3: always have something exciting coming. Very stoked to finally have
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 3: the video version of this out. So if you're watching
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: this over on YouTube. We're on the video portion of Spotify.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I I just I want to
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: say thank you to everybody who's listened this. This show
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: is growing so rapidly and so fast, it kind of
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 3: blows my mind. And we want to make sure that
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: we kind of continue our place in the algorithm. So
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: if you're listening to this on Apple Music or Spotify,
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: please do us a favor and just drop a rating.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: Takes two seconds. You don't even have to leave a review.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 3: Just give a rating, and honest, you know, I'm not
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: asking for five stars. But you know, Catherine Tremmell is
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: still out there, remember, and I think she is a
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: big fan of the show. And if you don't put
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: five or four stars, you know she might be in
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: your bedroom with an ice pick. Might be a good thing.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not leaving a review then if that's case.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 3: As always, before we say our goodbyes, be sure to
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: go explore our partner podcast. We have a link down
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: below and a description of all of our shows for
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 3: Someone's Foper Productions. They are the incredible podcast network that
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: makes all of this a reality for us. Some absolutely
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: incredible shows on their wonderful people just doing their part
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: to keep film conversation and physical media alive. I'm just
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: gonna plug Real quick issue number thirty one, a physical
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: media advocate just hit shelves if you're around the physical retailer,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: but on Amazon. This is a magazine dedicated to physical
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: media and film. It's also the first issue with my
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 3: monthly commentary column in there, where I'll be reviewing raudia.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: Man, that's crazy, Thank you were.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: I'll be reviewing some audio commentary tracks in there. It's
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: very exciting. It's the first time I've ever had anything
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 3: put in print, so I guess now I can add
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 3: published writer to my bio on Instagram.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: Right, another milestone, another all culminating it's what Catherine wanted.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: So please go support that, not out of like get
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 3: it because I'm in it, but just support that there
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: is still a physical publication with a focus on physical
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: media and just a ton of other great articles written
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: by incredible people in there that are worth your time
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 3: in reading and belong on your shelf.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: So Real quickly. Can we also add, if anyone's listening,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: be sure to follow us on social media at Beyond
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: the Blood Pod.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 3: Beyond the Blood Pod, What's your What's your what's your
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: personal social media?
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: Mine after hours video.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 3: And I'll bearded film.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: But but I want I want people to go check
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: it out. Tag us if you happen to be checking
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: out Basic and Synct or any other film that we've covered.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: Love to connect with you guys, Love interacting with you
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: guys on there, and uh yeah, be sure to give
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: this this one and any of our past episodes listen.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: Just don't go back to like the first season that
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 3: was rough, you know, No, I'm just kidding, go back
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 3: to it. We were learning, we were learning the.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: I actually heard on yourself. Man.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 3: I was talking to somebody the other day and they
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: were like, where should I start? And I was like,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 3: maybe started episode one. I'm like, then fast forward a
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 3: little bit, because I think the the growth is pretty great,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: and I think that's actually, you know, a fun thing
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 3: to kind of go back and track again.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: It happened quickly, though, because I even remember us starting consistently,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: and even then it was like fine tuning everything from
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: that point forward. But I'm very proud with the progress
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: we've made, and I hope everyone else is enjoying, you
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: know this as much as we've been enjoying it.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: Continuous evolution continuous always. Thank you for tuning in. This
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: is beyond the Blood. We'll see you guys on our
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 3: next one.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. Please select the link in
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 4: the description