Latest / Gabbing with Gib / 'The Traitors,' 'Southern Charm' and Identity Politics on Reality TV with Preston Mitchum and Taylor Crumpton (+ Jill Zarin's Garbage Bad Bunny Take)

Transcript

'The Traitors,' 'Southern Charm' and Identity Politics on Reality TV with Preston Mitchum and Taylor Crumpton (+ Jill Zarin's Garbage Bad Bunny Take) · Gabbing with Gib

0:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome back to Gavin with Gibb.
0:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm your host Gibson Johns and today on the show we have Preston Mitchum, formerly of Summer House Martha's Vineyard, and Taylor Crumpton, a writer who has also returned guest who has been on the show before to talk about some of the pertinent topics that deal with race and identity and other things that's tied to currently airing shows like the Traders and Southern Charm.
0:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And peacock put up that statement, which I'll read in a second just in case you need to be reminded of the context, asking for people to treat the trader's cast with respect.
0:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It brought up a lot of mixed reactions and questions of who it was for, the treatment of the cast on social media, who has and hasn't gotten such statements of defense in the past and more.
0:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's peacock statement that they're posted on January 24th.
0:46
[SPEAKER_04]: We're committed to making our cast feel safe, respect, and supported on-screen and off.
0:50
[SPEAKER_04]: The cast of the traders are real people and what happens in the game should never lead to cyber-bullying or harassment.
0:55
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a difference between discussing a show and targeting individuals.
0:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's not ruin the passion for the show with unborn to negativity and personal attacks.
1:03
[SPEAKER_04]: We appreciate your support.
1:04
[SPEAKER_04]: which again, on the surface of course, that sentiment is great.
1:08
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing really to argue with there, but as you'll hear, my conversation with President Taylor, there were different reactions to it.
1:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, based on the questions that I mentioned earlier, and that statement came a day after Lisa Rina had commented on threads, being like, you know, let's talk about you being a stalker about Colton.
1:27
[SPEAKER_04]: that came after, you know, that intense roundtable episode where he targeted Tiffany and correctly, which obviously created a lot of blowback.
1:35
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a lot of context around that statement that it kind of made it feel like it was for Colton.
1:39
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's also worth noting what Colton underwood has said about that statement.
1:43
[SPEAKER_04]: He said something last week in an interview that was posted by the reality run down.
1:46
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't say where the interview came from.
1:48
[SPEAKER_04]: But it came out after I recorded with Taylor and Preston, but here's what he said.
1:53
[SPEAKER_04]: He said the statement was really important and I'm really proud of peacock for standing up for its cast and just the people who you know were playing height and versions of our selling on this competition reality show.
2:01
[SPEAKER_04]: The statement was not solely for me.
2:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I know there's other members of the cast struggling and going through some hard times too.
2:07
[SPEAKER_04]: At the end of the day, it's a game, we're playing a game and I understand what makes the show so brilliant is everyone comes into the game with their own fans and people rooting for them.
2:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you get their player out, you're going to have some people that aren't happy.
2:17
[SPEAKER_04]: For me personally, I'm doing really well.
2:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm in a place in my life right now where I have support.
2:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I have love.
2:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I have what I call human X, my little baby boy running around and give me hugs.
2:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And I focus and work on that.
2:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, perfectly great sentiment, and I am never going to support people who are DMing castmembers, mean things and sending death threats and crossing a line, of course.
2:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that there's a line between feeling like anybody's behavior on and off a reality show should be open to criticism and open to commentary on social media.
2:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely, I take part in that.
2:54
[SPEAKER_04]: But crossing a line, it's messaging people and to kind of making it, again, death threats and just like, you know, making it super super personal, I think it changes the tune.
3:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it again, and you'll hear us talk about this in our conversation.
3:07
[SPEAKER_04]: It reminds me a lot of what happened.
3:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm love Island last season where they had to release a similar statement.
3:11
[SPEAKER_04]: People just kind of take it to this next level that it just does not serve to be brought to, but I do still think that these things are worth discussing.
3:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So Taylor Preston and I started off by chatting a lot about the traders and some of the things, again, that have popped up around the show, especially on social media, Colton and Tiffany, Ron and Durinda, Candace, as well as Vanita on Southern Charm, Sierra on Summer House and Preston's own time on Summer House Marguer's Vineyard.
3:34
[SPEAKER_04]: My goal going into this conversation was definitely to air more on the side of like facilitating the conversation versus driving the conversation, I think there's a difference there because President Taylor both brings so much more pertinent and informed perspectives on these topics than I do, but I thought that it was also
3:50
[SPEAKER_04]: an important conversation to have and to highlight because you know issues related to race aren't always talked about on these podcasts and on these reality TV podcasts and I think that's because they can be really difficult to discuss and kind of prickly but I'm a big believe that it's better to at least attempt to have that conversation than to ignore them completely.
4:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So keep listing for that chat but before we get there I do just have to call out.
4:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean that Jules Aaron video you guys her reaction to the bad buddy halftime
4:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to rehash, exactly what she said.
4:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You can go find it, I posted it on X even though she has since deleted her Instagram video.
4:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's just say that I think it's getting the response that it deserved.
4:29
[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that she felt so inclined to post such an absolute garbage take is embarrassing in and of itself.
4:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it also tells you everything you need to know about the bubble that she is.
4:41
[SPEAKER_04]: in, down in Florida, that the you show, the golden life will be following her and the other Roni Vets in.
4:47
[SPEAKER_04]: This is how she thinks and the reminder that like she is the reason why this show is happening.
4:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's no way that this is coming as a surprise to eat.
4:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it wasn't a surprise to me.
4:57
[SPEAKER_04]: It was kind of shocking that she posted it, but also like we knew that she all thought this way.
5:02
[SPEAKER_04]: It just wasn't surprising.
5:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Like like we've we've we've known about this.
5:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm
5:07
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the mayor election in New York and some of the stuff around different elections and and COVID like she I don't agree with her on a lot of things we knew how she viewed the world and it's just funny to me also like how much this woman self sabotages like she's the reason we didn't get the brony legacy show because she took the pay conversations public you know her initial undoing on Roney I think that was also heard her doing in my opinion.
5:32
[SPEAKER_04]: will she also be the reason that the golden life isn't going to happen?
5:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
5:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the show is still very much going to happen.
5:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, because I don't think Jill having these problematic views is a surprise.
5:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think it's really advised.
5:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It's one thing to think this way and again, I do not agree with any of the anything she said.
5:50
[SPEAKER_04]: It's another to use your platform to promote such ideas and to have the arrogance that she had to think that it would go over well.
5:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do think the show will still happen, but it's just funny.
6:02
[SPEAKER_04]: in less than a week, she fumbled all of this good will from the public and bravo fans who were suddenly excited to see the show.
6:08
[SPEAKER_04]: She's since again, she has since deleted the video.
6:10
[SPEAKER_04]: She has turned off comments across her Instagram and her daughter, Ali, has been posting on her story, you know, she most of the next morning that she loved the performance so much and it's like, okay girl, like I see what you're doing.
6:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, since then, Louanne during the Sonya Bethany, they've all posted fairly positive things about the performance, Ramona did like my Twitter post about Jill's reaction on Twitter.
6:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that was an endorsement of Jill's comments or endorsing the fact that she's getting blowback.
6:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
6:39
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I do know that Kelly.
6:42
[SPEAKER_04]: just commented pretty girl on Jill's video.
6:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't kind of feel like she didn't watch it.
6:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, kind of reactions across the board, but it has definitely been the topic of du jour this Monday.
6:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's that on that.
6:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, keep listening for my chat with Preston Mitchum and Taylor Crumpton.
7:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And please make sure to rate review and subscribe to Gapping with Gabe wherever you get your podcast.
7:05
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll be back again later this week.
7:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I want a gab.
7:24
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, today we are gabbing with two guests.
7:27
[SPEAKER_04]: We have Taylor Crumpkin, a return guest, a great writer, one of my faves, as well as Summer House Martha's Vineyard alum, Preston Mitchum.
7:35
[SPEAKER_04]: He wears many hats in this industry, and we love to have on the show, love kind of keeping him in our orbit, and I'm just really happy to have Preston Taylor both on today.
7:45
[SPEAKER_04]: had a little interaction on threads that kind of got us thinking that maybe we should jump on a mic and talk through some stuff that has been percolating around the reality TV space.
7:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So Taylor and Preston, I really appreciate you doing this.
7:56
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you?
7:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm good.
7:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm good.
7:59
[SPEAKER_03]: We were just sharing how much the snow is annoying at times.
8:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It's impacting us.
8:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's impacting my mood, but you know what, I'm good though.
8:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a bigbie virtually break red with two of my favorite people around reality TV.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So it could be worse, but this it's a little good.
8:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's rich into soul.
8:17
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like chicken noodle soup for people at reality TV.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
8:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Press it.
8:24
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a minute since you've been on on your show on the second season.
8:28
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
8:29
[SPEAKER_04]: How has it been sort of being away from the cameras and that?
8:34
[SPEAKER_04]: that ecosystem now that there's been a part of breather.
8:38
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's been, I have gone through so many emotions at once, you know, from frustration to disappointment, to solace, to just recognition if things were likely not going to happen again in terms of, at least, Martha's being a unit in particular.
8:55
[SPEAKER_03]: But because I still share a lot of proximity to people on the screen, I'm really good friends with Candiff.
9:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So as an example, it's made it not missed it as much until I miss it.
9:06
[SPEAKER_03]: That makes it.
9:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
9:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
9:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, even as I, I mean, I'm always going to be a reality to do watcher.
9:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I was,
9:12
[SPEAKER_03]: still like before the show during the show and after the show.
9:15
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just it's been a lot of my time I can discuss you in it and and watching it and no I'm just okay, you know, I'm good, you know I've really reconciled with if something is meant for me to be on TV again, it will happen You know, no additional stress, no labor added if it is meant to be and I think it's meant to be, you know We'll see what that time it looks like
9:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel like the the love for Martha's Vineyard, it's always there like you can always kind of feel it in a lot of the conversations I think that are how done social media and so like I would say never say never because it you know you know like I was at a big fan of that show but I do think there were things that I could figure out but I kind of feel like it's.
9:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, a group in also to greet.
10:00
[SPEAKER_03]: When people would ask you my opinion, I'm like, oh, I'm not going to miss my worries.
10:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I often do not.
10:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, I think Martha's very, it could be great.
10:07
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they're definitely needs to be cashake up, and you know, some additional considerations.
10:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, listen, one of the jokes that people say is, like, you never know a cook come back.
10:16
[SPEAKER_03]: We're housewives of Miami did.
10:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, sure, I will be 50 then, though.
10:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So.
10:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to say that.
10:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'll come back when I own a home on the bin you're there.
10:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
10:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's it's summer house family edition in Marjorie.
10:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:32
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
10:33
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
10:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, okay, so I'm sure this will come up organically in our conversation, but you know, I wanted to start off, we kind of got it got thinking because of the statement of the traders put out from the official accounts.
10:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this was almost to be so at this point, and it was, you know, I think the conversation around this season of the traders to me sort of has reminded me a little bit of this past season of level of island that just sort of has reached this like.
10:57
[SPEAKER_04]: It sort of surpassed this critical mass and it sort of feels like there are too many people kind of part of this conversation almost sometimes especially on threads where we're kind of all pretty active do you agree with that sort of comparison of like whoa this feels different from last year.
11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Completely, I know for myself, I covered this emergence of a toxic fandom of Love Island, you would say, and my calling for time last year.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And very similar to the statement that P.Cock put out for the traders, one came out near the end of this recent season.
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I dissected it depicted it, and there's something about these a political statements in which they're trying to be as broad as possible
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: a thinned or ice-later-like target, one single cast member, or one subsection of the audience, that ends up indirectly pissing everyone off.
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I worry more is like a cultural critic, but someone who also loves reality TV and it's impact on pop culture.
12:00
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's anything we can take from the Grammys and all the speeches, is that there is a need for peacock NBC Universal, the production companies, to just
12:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Just name one on name the targeting of black cast members also name out the very much coded homophobic rhetoric and remarks towards Colton.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this trying to please everyone is really creating like more strife and division.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm worried because we love reality TV there needs to be a villain there needs to be adversary that needs to be a foil.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like these statements like would make people afraid to be on the next season of the traders because now you're like, oh, am I going to not only get canceled, but it's everyone in America going to find my parents, my mom, siblings, and I make their life a living hell because I took out a fan favorite.
12:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, press.
13:00
[SPEAKER_03]: What was your initial reaction to the statement?
13:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Completely agree with Taylor.
13:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I, I'm always going to be one of the folks who's frustrated when those with power and those ability to name things and ship conversations don't be specific.
13:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of unfair actually, right?
13:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, in multiple things are true, right?
13:22
[SPEAKER_03]: We can easily name the experiences that Colton likely felt and we're seeing from many accounts around homophobia implicit or otherwise.
13:32
[SPEAKER_03]: you can also name and be very honest around that there are people are not criticizing gameplay and some people are actually criticizing how he even got cast in the first place given some of his history.
13:43
[SPEAKER_03]: You can name some of the anti black criticism that most black reality stars, especially black women receives, one most reality shows, traders is not separate and apart from that, right?
13:56
[SPEAKER_03]: There are multiple things that are true, right?
13:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I really
14:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always displeased by this idea of lied.
14:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's all just get along.
14:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at this world we're living in.
14:07
[SPEAKER_03]: We can all just show respect without naming that there are certain people that exist outside of the reality TV continuum who receive a lot of backlash, especially when they're in the reality TV space.
14:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's disingenuous.
14:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's incredibly hollow.
14:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I read the statement, I think because I work off that intersection of politics and policy and comms,
14:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always shocked when I see certain statements because I'm like, what expert is in the room that actually thought this was a good thing to put out?
14:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is what frustrates me and I think people, I think people are trying to pretend that we have the reality to be audience that we did 20 years ago, right?
14:48
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't.
14:49
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't, not only is timing different, right?
14:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Need a look, we're about to get an anti-M documentary, right?
14:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, sure, you may not be able to adopt the 2026 lens from things that were aired in 2006, but you can't pretend that people can't fill up a particular way when they've experienced or at least they see harm happening.
15:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got something I always talk about is how it feels like a lot of people on traders if they're black, they're out early, like it's like watching a scary movie much so.
15:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, oh, that's right.
15:20
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to get out of the loop.
15:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
15:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
15:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, you know, but people often try to give their anomalies or the outsiders or out layers.
15:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, well, they just stayed.
15:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, okay, one black person, great.
15:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, can this is still here, yay, it's like you, of course.
15:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it reminds me of people say like, there's a more racism in the United States because we have one black president now.
15:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, yeah, it's only, I have the ability to have those road-teller glasses on.
15:46
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's really it.
15:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree with Taylor, like I there needs to be more specificity in the people who are being harmed if not you can honestly keep it.
15:55
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot in there obviously.
15:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I think one of the things is that like you're right that there's a sort of a denial about like the reality of the viewership of these shows, especially as show like the traders as bringing together so many different fandoms that are
16:07
[SPEAKER_04]: made them just like so many different people with different perspectives and like me for example I've watched a lot of competition shows, but I'm you know, I come more from the Bravo perspective and like that is how I'm coming into this and so I'm not really used to some of these other people and how they've what their reputations are or what their backstory is and with Colton
16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I think in particular, they've underestimated the whole thing around him because I think they saw that he had his Netflix documentary series after he came out.
16:30
[SPEAKER_04]: He co-hosted that show with Chrissy Teagon on Hulu and there wasn't that much of an uproar, but those shows weren't nearly as big.
16:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Those shows aren't watched by people who are so vocal like us and many others online who were always going to talk about it.
16:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And especially because he refuses to talk about it, that's the other thing.
16:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like he goes into interviews and he's not.
16:48
[SPEAKER_04]: He's saying don't ask any of these questions.
16:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And so,
16:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is why I'm sorry, which is why old to me.
16:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think I am, I am actually shocked that people who think they can run away from the internet.
17:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, like it's, I am not suggesting you're going to have the most PR friendly answer, but people just want to, there's some people you're going to be honest to and they're going to be like, I'm not thinking about your statement ever again.
17:11
[SPEAKER_03]: You've done this alleged thing.
17:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's harmful enough.
17:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not ever, you're never going to get a fan of me.
17:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
17:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
17:18
[SPEAKER_03]: They have a right to both fillings.
17:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's also gonna be some people who are like at least you said something.
17:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
17:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially if it's coupled with actual accountability and not just this desire for people to have amnesia, people just want to hear your reasoning.
17:33
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't want to see you run away.
17:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like going, it's like not going to a house drives you in.
17:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
17:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
17:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And even if you walk, even if he came in, even if he did like one big interview or something, and he had like kind of a can't answer, but he at least addressed it head on.
17:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And then sort of like, if you would do that and then sort of move on, not unapologetically, but kind of unapologetically, I would actually have more respect for that, but it's kind of feels like right now he wants to have us kicking you to.
18:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously that comes from like a place of huge privilege and like he was,
18:04
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, this like college athlete, he presented a straight, he he he he he he's why he comes from like all this privilege.
18:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that he wants that part of his existence that he was used to and also whatever he's going for all the traders he wants that as well.
18:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's this it was ill advised at best.
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also so curious to hear from his team and like that internal decision making process.
18:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not as if he was not familiar with traders or the fame and notoriety around traders.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the winners went on late night reality show.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Gabby Windy is now going to be the host of an unscripted dating show with Alex Cooper, I believe.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So, everyone who just was recently on, it's experiencing this like post-trader boom, like we can even see that with like Fajra.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all of us are smart enough to know.
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: He was happy to be on the show.
19:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He was happy to get cast.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to make this like part of his career research and career plan.
19:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Did nobody on his team say, hey, you're going to have to address the elephant in the room.
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't just bypass and maybe it's like his privilege
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, in America, I look like their son or no, like multi-culturalism has been here.
19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It has changed.
19:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think people understand the bravo audience could work for the FBI to see I.A.
19:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They, if you could organize the bravo fan base.
19:42
[SPEAKER_00]: The world would be, you know, it's different.
19:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like if you are also going to be an adversary and come for the housewives, you have to realize you have people who are 10, 15 years deep in here.
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, people watching it's a Renaissance daytime soap operas with it.
20:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's also kind of this like,
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Do your research, do your homework, and be prepared.
20:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate an unprepared reality stop.
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like JT from Southern Charm, I hate when someone gets on the platform.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They know as the platforming in it.
20:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it, kid.
20:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
20:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Cryswolf.
20:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
20:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.
20:21
[SPEAKER_04]: With the statement and the Colton of it all, because it was so vague, the way that it landed two was that they were defending Colton sort of specifically, because that had, I think the Tiffany episode had just aired where, obviously,
20:35
[SPEAKER_04]: He treated it like that was just like such a hard to watch round table.
20:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm still pissed.
20:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm still pissed too.
20:41
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not big about it.
20:42
[SPEAKER_03]: It makes me angry every second.
20:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's happening now.
20:45
[SPEAKER_03]: We saw the following each other on every platform.
20:47
[SPEAKER_03]: That's good.
20:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's starting to happen.
20:49
[SPEAKER_03]: That feels right.
20:49
[SPEAKER_03]: That feels right.
20:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It feels really like.
20:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I'm sorry, this is a little wild to me actually, and in the reality is this, right?
20:56
[SPEAKER_03]: There are certain things, like, we love traders, obviously, right?
21:00
[SPEAKER_03]: There are certain things that are game play decisions.
21:02
[SPEAKER_03]: There are certain things that you will never convince me or not decisions around what you perceive around someone's identity or how they navigate space and time.
21:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, people love to pretend that everything is just about TV, as if TV exists in a vacuum.
21:18
[SPEAKER_03]: People don't erase their identities because they go into the reality TV space.
21:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that is how people navigate and find themselves in proximity.
21:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It really does frustrate me.
21:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Like people said, this is a game play decision.
21:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, is it that is a privileging position to hold that you can watch something like this and just think it's about playing the game?
21:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't see it that way.
21:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes me think of season two with peppermint.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I still have, I don't even remember the girl's name.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I still have her blush out.
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
21:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Have her blocked.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why Alan sees in three.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
21:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so many queer people, queer people of color on season three because of how they targeted.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: peppermint.
22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So like even though to reiterate, Preston's beautiful words, this isn't a pick on Colton session, but I think because now traders is becoming such a part of like the American TV viewing experience to the point we're now in BC.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's making his own version.
22:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that this episode and us having this conversation is almost like very Paul Revere in essence, where's like if we're seeing that's with the reality TV stars, this behavior, if not nipped in the bud.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Amendment by everyday average Americans and we can only assume that casting will probably try to pick you know people from every
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: political ideology, every region of the US.
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we're seeing this reality TV, people who have an arc performance who know that they're on camera, Lord Alding knows what it's to come from people who just come on this platform and say, well, I'm making this gameplay decision.
22:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's reflective of all the isms that have gone unchecked and all the ones that have grown in the meantime.
22:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel that
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Those with power really need to, whether it's the reunion or the casting for next season, make some changes because if not, I would hate that this would turn into what used to be love either in UK, where everybody left that series with like, I'm a self diagnosis dog scene with leaving this realm.
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I think reality TV moves super fast and because it's so
23:27
[SPEAKER_00]: engaging, we get to see all the isms of society moves, and that also means we're seeing everything move really fast, and that's not good.
23:35
[SPEAKER_04]: These games are a lot of the time, just like sort of microcosms of like the actual human experience, right?
23:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And like that's where the unconscious bias of like so many people color going first and on these on these seasons.
23:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like this idea of I think I think inevitably like there are going to be these things that pop up about like kind of reflect sort of real life, but also as the production team as the network is like what kind of responsibility is there to sort of shift that and shape that and to make sure it doesn't happen do you see any shows that have done that really well in terms of.
24:09
[SPEAKER_04]: cultivating a better environment or because, like, for example, CBS is a network who, like, like, what was it five or 10 years ago?
24:17
[SPEAKER_04]: They, like, did this mandate where we have to have, like, at least 50% cast with both color.
24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And it really has changed the sort of trajectory of who wins these shows and a particular big brother.
24:27
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to.
24:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trusting.
24:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I
24:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I do wonder what it can look like if you cast a, I mean, you know, I'm not trying to affirm an abaction this, but like, you know, it's not a quota policy I guess, but you know, like 50% black 25% POC 25% white right like I'm this, I mean, you know, I'm not trying to affirm an abaction this, but like, you know, it's not a quota policy I guess, but you know, like 50% black 25% POC 25% white right like I'm this, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean
24:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you can play around with certain things to figure out if does the dynamics still hold to be true?
24:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the reality is it can, right?
24:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I love discussing intersectional things.
25:01
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you ask 50% black folks, 20% feels like, where's the queer people fit in?
25:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
25:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you still getting rid of people?
25:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you still getting rid of women?
25:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, so there are, so it's not going to be a perfect formula ever.
25:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to be clear that I've heard great things about this production company.
25:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just her really great thing.
25:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't, so I think some of it are just people, like just, again, to your point about being about being a macrocosm.
25:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I think some of it are just the people experience.
25:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think, and I'm conflicted about it.
25:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think some of it is really just lack of research for some people.
25:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, to be clear, it's either a lack of research or it's, we know this exists and we don't think people will care.
25:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that is the big thing.
25:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm even the conversation regarding Derinda and Ron, like, it is clear that Ron hates that lady, right?
25:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It is, it is clear and everything he said and all the interviews.
25:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that makes my Spidey sense of go off.
26:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm like, what was said?
26:03
[SPEAKER_03]: How were things said?
26:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Did people know about it?
26:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I jokingly say this, but I'm like, during the tech completion, the owner of this season, right?
26:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, she did a season already.
26:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, and now you have to envision, would Ron have experienced that from someone else, but because we wanted to give someone another chance, now you have a black cast member who's experienced, who names that he did experience harm as a result of her being there based on his individual experience with her, right?
26:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I still makes me go, okay, well, what happens now?
26:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Does everyone get a chance to come back because they were voted off early?
26:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just think it sets up many things and I don't know what the answer is, right?
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
26:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously cast me.
26:42
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of the answers, but Because I'm naming everything.
26:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm at that round of people like, oh, y'all trying to bolt me because I'm black That feels like it would be the next stage of this honestly.
26:57
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like it takes somebody who's like really in the moment Aware of like what's going on and willing to call it out, you know?
27:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, yes, I guilty, y'all
27:06
[SPEAKER_04]: It felt like Candace during the Tiffany roundtable like she felt the pain that Tiffany was feeling and she saw exactly what was happening and I understand why she did not have any obligation to call it out in the moment or anything.
27:17
[SPEAKER_04]: She clearly was feeling it in the moment and probably wanted to say something so badly and not to presume anything, but that added to it.
27:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It got me because I'm a double Pisces tailor, did you cry?
27:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I tried, watch it.
27:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I was actually bawling because I'm like this feels so deeper than this right now and it really pain me to watch her go.
27:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially her exit speech.
27:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
27:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, okay, this is a lot.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to be very astro, Pisces love a good cry.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: After reporting this, we're still in a Saturday in Pisces.
27:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Benitos, Pisces, which is why I get right at the Grammys.
27:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people underestimate the power of empathy and reality, TT, especially competitions like this where there is a social capital.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a social gang being played.
28:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to may listen, happy black history, I love it, but I do believe that Ron did fail at the social capital gang.
28:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Raiders like there it in need to break bread with people in fellowship and we don't know what Drender Mayo said what was caught on hammer wasn't what did it make it we will never know just like the then fight from SLC something So be lost a thought Like girl release the footage
28:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think because we have this convergence of all these reality TV shows housewives is a strategy game.
28:40
[SPEAKER_00]: There are alliances, but also there's that empathy, there's that compassion, there's that care.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Candace is so intelligent and employing that and I remember one interview she did recently.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to be like y'all are kicking off a single black mom like why is, but I think people forget to understand the humanity in these situations.
29:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's so focused on like we gotta get out of trader.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We gotta do this where all skills into like this hunting session and then it is kind of like touching these narratives with like a historical trauma where it's the majority against the minority.
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: it's this one person who I guess we can base and infer probably doesn't have as much resources to the other so I think us as a viewer like oh my god like we don't want her to leave the kind of felt like towards the end of Ron leaving where everyone was like oh like he's giving his good bias like we this doesn't
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: feel good.
29:37
[SPEAKER_00]: In the form of reality, TV is created to literally tell your brain to be really anxious and high-strong because it becomes addictive.
29:46
[SPEAKER_00]: The form of reality, TV, literally, a Pixar brain.
29:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We're having on as conversations about like we are watching this show religious feet week after week art brownings are really high.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in a high stress like state and all of this is happening and I think people are finding their proxies on the cast to be silos of what they are feeling right now.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that, like, traditionally, that's not what production companies do, right?
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like this is also my social worker training coming in, but there is going to be indeed in the upcoming years for like a debrief.
30:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we've jumped a reunion as a debrief, but I do think it would be helpful for viewers.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: to see these cast members don't read debrief about what really went wrong and they could do like some repair because I feel like even the reunion format is getting a little outdated and it should adding more fuel to the fire and for people who reviewers, if their fire is not toned down, it does not transmute it, then it becomes hate speech online.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I'm about
30:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Paul said, even though we haven't seen him, is cruising and not in that way.
31:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not.
31:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That was funny.
31:10
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I do agree.
31:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think it is layered to your point.
31:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, to your point around filling something, that's why I felt watching Ron and particular, because I don't want to say he was bullied.
31:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that's a fair assessment, actually.
31:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Something was clearly going wrong, though.
31:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I did appreciate his point during the banishment where he ultimately got banished.
31:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Because, you know, he kind of caught out of double standard of him being kind of picked out.
31:36
[SPEAKER_03]: and other people will be way more wrong than him but no one picking on him and picking on them and they're both and you know he definitely snapped at derender which is loud as like something is missing this feels you know as as relatively viewers of course i think and even as someone who's who's obviously experienced something and then saw it play out
31:56
[SPEAKER_03]: something is disconnected from this thing right and I don't know what it is and so I really do want to hear I felt something like I was like most people don't usually snap like this unless there's something they're filling or something that we are missing and why but I mean this way so but I'd agree like it is there is a social part
32:18
[SPEAKER_03]: of traders that I think he may not have appreciate it because it's not just let's go get a trader.
32:24
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not like you around each other all day.
32:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a some point you have to talk beyond the game.
32:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.
32:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So what he posts about Derinda because I I want I want to let you guys think about the fact that like he hasn't named exactly what she says that she has he has caught his bias and she said some truly terrible things to me but since they were
32:48
[SPEAKER_04]: and it looks like him blowing up on her out of nowhere, like you said, Preston.
32:51
[SPEAKER_04]: But like, what do you think about him not being more specific about it?
32:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, to see if an obligation do do that, to kind of back up his claim?
33:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I just, I'm curious what you both think about that, and like how he has messaged it.
33:04
[SPEAKER_03]: But based on what I've been reading from him, it feels a little intentional at this point.
33:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, he did say that he was going to address it after reunion.
33:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I don't know if it's like, rare crumbs right now until you get to the reunion.
33:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And he probably, because he's been pretty welcome online.
33:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so it feels like more of a, I mean, maybe it's cathartic, but I also feel like it's probably more of a, I'm getting so many questions about this thing in particular, let me respond to this without revealing everything.
33:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure I would have shared anything got it because I feel like as is not yet at least as a consumer and a viewer, it's like hard to.
33:41
[SPEAKER_04]: It's hard to touch down on it like from just from my perspective personally because like I don't know what exactly he's referring to and like they always say that like I don't know I think I think that's something clearly happened but they always say like they're always filmed whenever they're on traders like there's they're never having off camera interactions like what was it like it just it's hard to conceptualize I guess like what he's even referring to and it so I I just hope he got specific maybe it's at the reunion maybe somewhere else because I I can't like comprehend exactly what it is or picture it.
34:11
[SPEAKER_04]: you know.
34:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and campus in a Michael arsenal near podcast undemisicated.
34:17
[SPEAKER_03]: She made a specific comment that said, you know, she was like this, obviously, I'm never going to delegitimize Ron's experience one on one of Drenda because that separate, but she said she around it.
34:29
[SPEAKER_03]: She never
34:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So, because they were asking her, excuse me, they were asking her to, like, what did you hear?
34:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And she was like, oh, personally I didn't hear anything, but I'm not going to say that he didn't hear something that's unfair.
34:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, I don't even know, based on some of the other customers, I haven't heard anyone share anything just yet, but he also didn't say that they did.
34:48
[SPEAKER_03]: He just said that when he experienced with something that, you know, felt
34:54
[SPEAKER_03]: felt racist is probably the best where I'm going to use because that's what it sounds like he's put that's the implication for sure to the audience think about that.
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something interesting about the loop to Bravo pipeline.
35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think about Joe Kim Booster, who is the host of Bravo's Love Hotel, who allegedly there was some off-camera interaction between Shana Mador.
35:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember, and then Joe went to social media and spoke about it.
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, Rod, who's also along with something, allegedly went down during that.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And as going to social media, speak about it.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And my thinking is, are they going to social media because they know the people that allegedly did this to them are beloved by the network in the fans?
35:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Shannon, literally all of everyone was like, weeping for her and Archie after the car crash and that man who, I don't even know, I hate talking about meteorical white men who just are with women to get a platform.
35:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know, tonight I'm not speaking into existence.
35:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, but I'm not going to say it.
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, baby, because God said no and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
36:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
36:18
[SPEAKER_04]: My theory totally speculative is that she's not because she's wants to maintain that really good relationship with the Bravo and Peacock, because she's hosting the ultimate girl strip party.
36:27
[SPEAKER_04]: She's on the traitors, she's on Radio Andy.
36:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's why she's not doing the issue.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I believe that's part of like Ron's going to the online, going to the streets, going to social media.
36:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Dwarinda is loved by peacock and NBC in a first soul.
36:42
[SPEAKER_00]: She DJed up, brothel con.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a part of all the things you just listed.
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this is the only way he feels like he can have power.
36:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Or like if I build these people on social media, if I build online, then if I do say what she said at the reunion, they won't have to air it because I had enticed all of these people.
37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: that could be a train of thought.
37:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But then also I think everybody wants the platform, but I think you should have a conversation with your team like, this is what the show entails.
37:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at the on-down.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you talk to another queer cast member, Black, queer member, Black cast member ahead of time to kind of get the lay of the land?
37:23
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
37:23
[SPEAKER_00]: because I think that would have benefited him from like talking to previous people.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I don't know the man from a kid at paint.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: He could have done that.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think you need to be in a form when you're walking on a reality TV show as someone who's not in reality TV.
37:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
37:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't lie though.
37:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I, this is why I will always love reality TV, but I can always, I always have to attach real life, right?
37:48
[SPEAKER_03]: To it like the existence, right?
37:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I just really wish the last time I saw I remember like a white cast member feel like they'd need it to do something like that.
38:04
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
38:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it just, it, it, it, it, it, it feels almost like let me do this intentionally and strategically to make sure that people know that I'm telling the truth.
38:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And, and I just, and I hate that it feels like people have called our just rarely believed when they say, hey, someone was racist to me and I didn't like it.
38:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And then because I guarantee you, even though he names the thing,
38:29
[SPEAKER_03]: by promissue, so many derinda fans alike will be telling Sally that Ron is lying and he's over exaggerating and that we're going back to this exact same thing again, right?
38:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just, you know, I didn't probably want to see a statement after that, right?
38:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, right, yeah.
38:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, that's the thing.
38:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm thinking about how many times also I've heard I've seen a network issue a statement after
38:55
[SPEAKER_03]: pretty much any time I've seen like bullying happened.
38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, where have been you'd ever done a statement from anyone?
39:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I literally have pressed and I have because she responded when I put the statement out on thread.
39:05
[SPEAKER_04]: She responded to it.
39:06
[SPEAKER_04]: She said, but you know, they let others get eaten alive.
39:09
[SPEAKER_04]: This is cute though.
39:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Mmm, yes, because being able to say I've texted her sometimes after I've seen people go off and say some harmful shit And on my girl, we ride at dawn, like let me know the time in the place because I'm like this was me on TV pre TV and post TV Like I don't play about black people
39:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's because I just see it so much and it's so unfair that people get away with not making statements, but when people make these like very powerful anti-Is, etc.
39:40
[SPEAKER_03]: statements, they're penalized or they lose followings and brand.
39:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it actually is wild to me that there's like a power in silence and censorship steel, especially when you have these major platforms and being on reality TV.
39:56
[SPEAKER_04]: We robbed Vanita and how Sierra, it took Sierra Miller defending Vanita on a different show.
40:01
[SPEAKER_04]: They're good friend, but they're on completely different shows on Bravo.
40:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It took Sierra defending her and let me know all this read what she said just for people listening.
40:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Imagine being the only black girl in a predominantly white cast in the south, no one ever sees Vanita's side and her cast only expects her to be submissive to their opinion and limelight.
40:18
[SPEAKER_04]: If a main cast member refuses to film with another cast member, that's code for trying to push them out.
40:26
[SPEAKER_04]: She had the analysis with what's correct, and she went on.
40:29
[SPEAKER_04]: But this whole topic reminds me of that because it almost took her validating Venita's experience and what viewers were observing about it.
40:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I think if Venita even herself would come out and said it, it would have been Some viewers would have not wanted to accept that.
40:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And they would have wanted to defend the boys' club of southern charm.
40:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that Sierra's speaking up and she shouldn't have to do that.
40:48
[SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that she did, it's like paid dividends.
40:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I say something and I'm not and I and I think Taylor will get my point in Gibson YouTube, but this this is like, yeah, no, I do it.
40:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think though that Sierra was the right person in this moment because she happens to be the type of black woman that white people like, can you elaborate on that?
41:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Just so she is she is for the most part of Sierra's great love her down.
41:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So if this is not a comment about Sierra, this is a comment really about
41:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Why do white people like you in particular with that reply?
41:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah totally and usually those who have honest and aesthetic usually seen as more attractive usually Seeing that I mean more able body more petite.
41:30
[SPEAKER_03]: There's like a there's like an ability to resonate and relate to someone who sees them as like oh She has white friends.
41:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, she's connected to the audience.
41:38
[SPEAKER_03]: She's obviously very popular.
41:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and like I think if you can if I could pick like
41:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess now, obviously, you can pick certain people to say that.
41:46
[SPEAKER_03]: That's thanks to just say that and get away with it, too, right?
41:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think like, in heyday, if there was very specific, black people, black women who made that comment, people either pass it up, or probably make some comments about the person making the statement, too.
42:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she just happens to be someone who they just happened to like and already receives in order for a beneath as a make that.
42:07
[SPEAKER_03]: people have caught all certain things, maybe not as much of a fan base as Sierra, caught up their specific things.
42:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, and I made that coming, I forgot on one of the posts.
42:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And you thankfully, like, me, Sierra, we all knew what we were saying at the same time.
42:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's really not a comment about them.
42:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really a comment on, you know, it's really a comment on.
42:26
[SPEAKER_03]: When some viewers see people make certain comments, they first judge the messenger.
42:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And if their message is valid enough to defend or protect someone else.
42:36
[SPEAKER_03]: There were also people who still attacked Venita, even after Sierra made that.
42:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Conshore.
42:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
42:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But they want acknowledge it's because of colorism and a lot of other things too that factors in.
42:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, and I'm glad to see Venita, I didn't see them, I'm glad to be in need of said.
42:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been about it because Venita experience is so much harm online.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: and people do not check that at all.
42:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's disgusting.
43:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And a few years ago, I interviewed Preston along with Venita Gabby from Summer House when she was still a cast member.
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And a few other Black talent that Bravo gave me for this big piece about Bravo and it's like reality TV star talent.
43:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I found that piece.
43:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And in it I interviewed a professor and I can't say or I can't remember verbating what she said, but to paraphrase, it was like, there is this shared unification thread, but like, if you do good, I will do good.
43:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you are, I would do well.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: because what I noticed when I was watching some of House Marseille Divineer is that after every episode, a cast member was going on Instagram live with a cast member from a different show to debrief to talk to raise awareness of sheer platform.
43:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there was one either with like Taylor Hale from Big Brother.
43:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was one with a continuous name, but he was just doing the glass stuff at Sundance and he also has the black queer podcast.
43:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I saw this
43:59
[SPEAKER_00]: online mobilization around some markers vineyard from Black reality stars that weren't even in bravo, but wanted to use their platform to draw awareness because so many other dates were invested in that.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what came to mind when I saw the mobilization of Sierra
44:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Who else can really be in the need of shoes then see her who is a black woman from the south.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I want us to name that on a New York show in Sierra and I really wish I could interview her about this.
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Did experience a lot of vitro online from the min.
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: She has days in fifth at me on camera who are white men.
44:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that like,
44:47
[SPEAKER_00]: that also compliments what Preston is saying is not only is she the perfect messenger but people who are watching her who are not black women can be like oh well I dated oh oh I dated it lost in like I can infantize with her she is the warm friendly black girl on the white celebrity so like I had a friend like this by proxy yeah but I know oftentimes we have begged
45:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for someone who was born and raised in the South to stick down and had that Southern Charming reunion because there are so many cultural narratives, test points, slang, gender dynamics, paradigm, and racial dynamics that I see as someone who is like a multi-generational text in as Southern as can be, where I'm like Andy does not know
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when I interviewed her, she was like, you know, I'm not going to get really active.
45:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not like I'm not going to like blow up, but I know that's like so typical.
45:57
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many Souths within the South, the Atlanta South with this new age South.
46:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's completely different from Charleston, which is the old South, which is like,
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: how people navigate power and multi-relational friendships in groups is completely different.
46:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think the network is doing a good job of like nuance and regionality.
46:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've said that about somehow smart the venue as well.
46:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There does need to be, if I don't understand how to do this, I need to pass it because if not the cast member is not only having to educate, defend harm and then your surprise why they don't want to give their all on camera.
46:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, nobody else is having to educate.
46:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody else is stepping in.
46:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody else is also having to do this acquired of them, often clowns, Laura forgive me for what I'm about to say.
46:55
[SPEAKER_00]: For Naomi to have allegedly been beneath his friend, I have seen nothing from them on social media, going to their own white sister's woman to woman to be like, hey, you should back off.
47:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I have enjoyed, and I've said this to Angie and the DMs, how Angie has stood up for Mary on Salt Lake City, has been refreshing to see.
47:24
[UNKNOWN]: Uh-huh.
47:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we can only imagine what the black experience like is in Salt Lake City, Utah in the history of white black is in the Mormon church for Angie that's that been loved.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see that on Southern charm.
47:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know some people were coming after page in theater when page was a cast member as well.
47:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It just can't be on the year, but it can't be on Jackson, and then what happens when we need to leave, is it just going to go back to Southern Gentlemen?
47:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's, it's like, I think a million amazing points that were just said by you, but I also, it's like, at the end of the day, like, it's Southern Charmer Show that's interested in that nuance and in that, you know what I mean?
48:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I want it to be.
48:07
[SPEAKER_04]: and Vinita's there that they should want to.
48:10
[SPEAKER_04]: But I almost feel like that show is moving backwards in a way because it just feels like it's leaning even more so into the Southern men and that those three or four guys.
48:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it just feels like it's leaning even more into that in recent years and it was three or four years ago.
48:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Sunner Hoppitality is going to surpass it.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I truly would be so better show organic quote unquote D.E.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: O.I.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's doing it?
48:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Sunner Hoppitality from the Bat.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Multicultural, both my racial, I love Lake.
48:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I was with great, like that is the South.
48:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The South is always in multicultural.
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: There's been queer people in South who happen to be people of color.
48:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I await the day and Lord knows I don't want anybody to be out of the job during these times But I cannot wait for something hospitality the third half seven charm because I'm getting so sick and tired of People having to fuck crusty old white men to have a position on it show Yeah, what in any say it's getting weird.
49:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
49:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We are, I don't want to show you.
49:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting more crickets falling from gray's pages up.
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: If it needs to, to the, to the handtoms get somewhere, where she is.
49:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I was about to say, could you just turn to New York?
49:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't want to put the burden on her, but move to New York.
49:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, move, move with Sierra.
49:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But this is why I go back to like what decisions are being made because statistically speaking most black people most gonna call it when especially black people predominate in the south that is like statistically true and it's even more true if you are a black person who was queer and trans
49:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and people, I think people just don't associate that because I think the South is just strictly conservative, strictly Republican.
49:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, sure, maybe some parts of it, but most black people, most queer people predominate in the South.
50:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, for that's not me showing it all.
50:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It feels like a bit of a miscalculation, and I just hope that the miscalculation is not intentional.
50:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Press like I want to wind it down a little bit because obviously you've had you had two years of experience in this system of reality TV and you know, you know, the the trader statement Danielle Reyes from last season came out and basically said like I was checked in on by a producer when because she was extremely cyber void last year extremely divisive figure.
50:33
[SPEAKER_04]: and she was basically like I'm good like I knew going into this and I was going to be loved or hated it turned out to be hated because I knew that like she's not she's a long comment that's sort of the TLD on it but I think it did sort of bring up this question of like who's defended and who's supported and we talked a little bit about that with Sonita too.
50:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess like during your time they are on that show like
50:54
[SPEAKER_04]: how much just support did you feel and like I guess like can you speak to that a little bit?
50:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can.
50:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I read Daniel statement and I don't she was thinking from a personal experience.
51:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, then I appreciated that and I still don't think that that means someone can't issue a statement that says do not cyber bully, right?
51:12
[SPEAKER_03]: If if a network really wanted to, they would do it.
51:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not and it's not just because someone says I'm okay and frankly, let's say someone could be okay
51:24
[SPEAKER_03]: But your mental health episode blows week to week day to day hour to hour and so sure you can be okay now, but I think statements should be issue when you see things are going a little bit too hard online right say you're okay, I think on super house Martha's then you're like I
51:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I always think producers, I always thought producers could have done better in some instances, right?
51:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say though, I still believe that there were consistent check-ins.
51:51
[SPEAKER_03]: There were people consistently saying like, hey, are y'all all right?
51:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's who you go to in case you need to talk through some things of people.
51:59
[SPEAKER_03]: There were those moments often.
52:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I also don't know how...
52:06
[SPEAKER_03]: We need it.
52:07
[SPEAKER_03]: We need it.
52:07
[SPEAKER_03]: We need it a tailor.
52:08
[SPEAKER_03]: We need it a social wear.
52:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I think I think some people don't have the emotional intelligence to know what sometimes when enough is enough.
52:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I do think, unfortunately, at the same time, I'm acknowledging that there were people who tried.
52:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I still feel there were some people who kind of
52:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And I see this one plans too and I'm just like, that's actually just untrue.
52:37
[SPEAKER_03]: People sign up for reality before a variety of reasons, right?
52:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think some things you naturally come to accept when your reality TV, you accept that the edit is real whether you want it or not.
52:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
52:50
[SPEAKER_03]: That is what people are seeing.
52:52
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't like when you try to say that that did not happen.
52:55
[SPEAKER_03]: right, do accept it, you move on.
52:57
[SPEAKER_03]: At least I'm like, I'm not enough to argue about to people about what it is, what it is, my guard lists how you're being shown to the audience.
53:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
53:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
53:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
53:05
[SPEAKER_03]: You can change your opinions, maybe a real time if you meet people and like all of that is like interactive, right?
53:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just don't exist online.
53:13
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also think people do not sign up to be bullied just because they've accepted being on TV, right?
53:21
[SPEAKER_03]: People
53:23
[SPEAKER_03]: except epithets just because they've signed up to be on to the right, you take the good and the bad that happens season by season, but you just don't have to accept being bullied, especially when you know that what we're seeing usually is a microcosm of what happens in society.
53:40
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, to answer your direct question, yes, there were moments where people where I think
53:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, thankfully, I think I was able to have relatively unscathed moments, but even in moments that I did not love because they just didn't connect, for example, for me.
53:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So, for example, like my ass being shown in two episodes, I was like, why I'm literally getting dressed.
54:04
[SPEAKER_03]: This is weird to me, actually, but this is
54:07
[SPEAKER_03]: a focus point, it even stuff like that, like I addressed with producer because I'm like this doesn't, like I listen, I love my body.
54:15
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not an anti-body, but I'm like tell me your thought process because I have to understand why something was cut the way it was when it's like a whole ass cheek with someone getting dressed.
54:28
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, but I do think they could have been,
54:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Preston Taylor, this has been really fantastic, and I feel like we've touched it.
54:38
[SPEAKER_04]: It went and went to places that I didn't know it was going to go, but in a way that that's what I wanted it to be.
54:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted it to just be sort of like a chat.
54:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there anything else that you guys kind of came in thinking about that you wanted to bring up or have you kind of on turn most of the stones?
54:53
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so good.
54:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I only interviewed Presence, so it's like we're a break.
54:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, right, right, right.
54:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be, I'll be texting Taylor.
54:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, I grabbed out a question for you.
54:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,
55:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so curious with the future of writers is going to be, especially obviously just making their own scripted, and I was just going to some podcasts.
55:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Lord knows, I'm writing a book about reality TV, so I'm listening to every reality TV to a podcast.
55:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say it's higher learning, where they were talking about how traders are now becoming like this.
55:30
[SPEAKER_00]: reproductive, the system in which like the NBC one has cast the normal people within those normal people will now be known as reality TV stars.
55:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, interesting.
55:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like self-replicating, right?
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like so curious because you know right now the reality TV stars are president.
55:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Many people in our administration were reality TV stars.
55:54
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of power in it.
55:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do want, and you know, maybe this is like the podcast on the kettle blacker like inside baseball moment, but I would love for someone at like this reunion to be like honest about, yeah, I acted this way because I wanted to get a brand or I acted this way because of like the career research and people going around like TV for a lot of different things, but I'm always so curious when like one reality shows becomes like the real hot ticket item
56:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Because reality TV show viewers are so savvy like actually a study has been done.
56:32
[SPEAKER_00]: If you watch reality TV, you become a more literate media consumer, like, look at us, right?
56:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, all this baby, let's all keep college course.
56:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think also some of the reason and why I feel like people are so impassioned, fighting it about this is like,
56:48
[SPEAKER_00]: this is a scholarly debate and I do want the production company and traders moving forward to do more because I think people are getting tired of the same narrative, the same patterns, though I would like the little evolution of reality.
57:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I also would like to press in back on reality TV, but that's just me talking to God because I feel like he's such a good representative of like this new wage reality TV star that is not a political that is talking about things and I want to be brought up with the need in Sierra.
57:22
[SPEAKER_00]: to be able to talk about it because fear, too, made a comment about her traders.
57:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And we didn't talk about that in the episode.
57:28
[SPEAKER_00]: What happened to her and why have we not heard about it?
57:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's true.
57:33
[SPEAKER_00]: More space and maybe less fear of people on the Bravo in BC network to speak up out about what happened because Bravo so revered the reality to eat these things.
57:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm also worried of like, the rest of them brought up censorship.
57:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also worried of black talent, but P.O.C.
57:51
[SPEAKER_00]: talent, eligibility talent, are also internalizing that they have to be censored.
57:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So that the network continues to give them opportunities.
57:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to see our officers get a red card for the Grammys.
58:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like Sierra's comment to the other thing I was thinking about when we were talking about that was like that would have landed much differently if she had done it like two or three seasons in like she's been around for like five or six years now and so I think it's also like a established figure seniority kind of like she feels I would venture to death that she feels much more emboldened to do something like that because she knows she's
58:26
[SPEAKER_04]: reach this level of sort of, I think there's probably like a certain level or some of that you reach if your reality start, bravo, where it's like, they can scold you for talking out of turn on the interview or on social media or whatever, but like, whether what they were like going to do, you know what I mean?
58:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, they're not going to fire you because it's something like that.
58:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that,
58:44
[SPEAKER_04]: You shouldn't take reaching that point to feel like you can't speak out though.
58:48
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, there is definitely a safety with jabberty, right?
58:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there is inherently a safety that comes with that.
58:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.
58:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Taylor and Preston, this has been awesome.
59:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for coming on and doing this.
59:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm excited to be able to listen to this.
59:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there anything that you two want to plug before we sign off here that you're working on?
59:07
[SPEAKER_04]: You won't be able to check out or just follow you.
59:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Plug all the things before we end here.
59:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll just say, listen, follow along at PrestonMitchem.com or at Preston.Mitchem, which is usually true for all of my socials except for TikTok.
59:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm done with that.
59:22
[SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, everything else, uh, feel free to follow along.
59:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm also doing a bunch of writing.
59:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
59:30
[SPEAKER_03]: One bat, but, um, but yeah, just follow along.
59:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
59:33
[SPEAKER_04]: A great, a great follow-and-thread, especially with the straighter.
59:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I love trolling people on friends, by the way, it's like my favorite.
59:39
[SPEAKER_04]: It's getting like more and more that way to, like, it's the, I'm so tempted to do it at all fucking times of the day, anyway, what are your comments at me screaming, actually?
59:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I just have no time, please, I can't even get into it.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to run this back.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm out to the crimson across all all socials.
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_00]: My website is Taylorcrumton.com.
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a monthly call on that time magazine.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I do a bunch of writing.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm working on two books.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Please say a prayer for me so that they can be done and out in the world.
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can rest.
1:00:23
[UNKNOWN]: That's okay.
1:00:24
[SPEAKER_04]: a prayer for you, but also prayer for us, and I can outweigh to read those books.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks very much, up my alley.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So, President Taylor, thanks so much, and we'll do it again soon.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for listening to the show.
1:00:36
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1:00:44
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1:00:49
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1:00:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Gavin McGibb is an independent podcast host that by me gives me jobs.
1:01:01
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1:01:04
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1:01:08
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1:01:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you again for your support and see you next time.